Re: Stus-List Cabin sole replacement
I have a little separation on one piece of the sole. I am going to try to gently open up the separations, inject some glue or epoxy and clamp it tight John Enterprise On Saturday, December 13, 2014 1:51 PM, Daniel Sheer via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Speakin' of which. Pegathy's cabin sole is original, I think, glass enclosed ply with holly/teak veneer and varnish. The veneer is separating from the ply, but the ply is in good shape, I think. I was thinking about using some kind of artificial teak/holly stuff and gluing it on top of the ply, after removing any loose veneer. Any suggestions as to if this is a good idea? And, if it is, what kind of stuff should I use. I'm hoping to do it over the winter. Dan SheerPegathy CC LF38Rock Creek off the Patapsco ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Cabin sole replacement
There are several sources for artificial holly teak. I've worked with PlasTeak to install PlasDek, the exterior version, on a deck hatch. Google plastic teak floor for others. These products are relatively easy to install. Prep the undersurface, spread adhesive with a notched trowel, lay it down and roll it with a laminate floor roller ($25 at a big box home store). Let cure 24 hours. Done. Dennis C. Touché 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA Sent from my iPhone On Dec 13, 2014, at 12:51 PM, Daniel Sheer via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Speakin' of which. Pegathy's cabin sole is original, I think, glass enclosed ply with holly/teak veneer and varnish. The veneer is separating from the ply, but the ply is in good shape, I think. I was thinking about using some kind of artificial teak/holly stuff and gluing it on top of the ply, after removing any loose veneer. Any suggestions as to if this is a good idea? And, if it is, what kind of stuff should I use. I'm hoping to do it over the winter. Dan Sheer Pegathy CC LF38 Rock Creek off the Patapsco ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Stus-List Cabin Sole replacement
I acquired a 1984 CC 41 earlier this year that had a been on the hard for a couple of years. The boat's in pretty good shape and surveyed out nicely. However, it was left with standing water in the bilges. The freeze/thaw cycle completely destroyed the cabin sole so I needed to replace it. The shop just finished installing the new teak holly marine grade plywood sole and it looks pretty good. Some gaps are wider than they should be and the subfloor is pieced together poorly but, overall the sole really improves the look of the cabin. Now I'm looking at the bill - actually, choking on it. The shop guy and I apparently miscommunicated in a staggeringly significant manner. I had expected a bill of $4,100 which seemed high but, on the edge of reasonable and, I just couldn't free up enough time to try the job myself. The actual bill is for $9,600I could have freed up a lot more time at $9,600!! So, I'm trying to find out if I just completely underestimated the work and the cost is reasonable...or, if I'm getting totally and completely hosed. I would love to hear opinions on this. By the way, the cost of the wood was about $700. I don't know the cost of the varnish. Steve Anderson Shadow CC 41 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Cabin Sole replacement
Ouch! If labor is 8600 (expensive varnish?), at $80 an hour it is over 100 hours. At $40 an hour, it is over 200 hours. Did they use hand saws and rasps? Sounds ridiculous for a mediocre job! Joel On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 4:00 PM, steve via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I acquired a 1984 CC 41 earlier this year that had a been on the hard for a couple of years. The boat's in pretty good shape and surveyed out nicely. However, it was left with standing water in the bilges. The freeze/thaw cycle completely destroyed the cabin sole so I needed to replace it. The shop just finished installing the new teak holly marine grade plywood sole and it looks pretty good. Some gaps are wider than they should be and the subfloor is pieced together poorly but, overall the sole really improves the look of the cabin. Now I'm looking at the bill - actually, choking on it. The shop guy and I apparently miscommunicated in a staggeringly significant manner. I had expected a bill of $4,100 which seemed high but, on the edge of reasonable and, I just couldn't free up enough time to try the job myself. The actual bill is for $9,600I could have freed up a lot more time at $9,600!! So, I'm trying to find out if I just completely underestimated the work and the cost is reasonable...or, if I'm getting totally and completely hosed. I would love to hear opinions on this. By the way, the cost of the wood was about $700. I don't know the cost of the varnish. Steve Anderson Shadow CC 41 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com -- Joel 301 541 8551 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Cabin Sole replacement
I paid about $1,200 in materials for a holly+teak sole for my 33' last summer. A friend and I did the work (actually he did most of it). I was told that the cost would be about $5,000 if I hired someone. So your materials cost seems a bit low and labour seems a bit high. $5 - $6k might be reasonable for 41' Mike Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network. Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell. ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Cabin Sole replacement
I'd assume a mistake and question the bill. You can also ask for backup and they should be able to give you the hours by day. Where did you come up with the $4100 figure. Did they estimate that to you? If so I'd think they owe you at least a good explanation of how the price could more than double without so much as a phone call to communicate why the bill was going up. Did they uncover some issue that needed to be addressed after beginning the job? if so they should have called and told you of the situation and asked for your approval to continue... I would suggest beginning from the perspective that there is must be some mistake in the billing and see how they react to your inquiry. Danny -- Original Message -- From: Joel Aronson via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com To: steve steve0...@gmail.com, cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Cabin Sole replacement Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 16:10:22 -0500 Ouch! If labor is 8600 (expensive varnish?), at $80 an hour it is over 100 hours. At $40 an hour, it is over 200 hours. Did they use hand saws and rasps? Sounds ridiculous for a mediocre job! Joel On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 4:00 PM, steve via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.comwrote:I acquired a 1984 CC 41 earlier this year that had a been on the hard for a couple of years. The boat's in pretty good shape and surveyed out nicely. However, it was left with standing water in the bilges. The freeze/thaw cycle completely destroyed the cabin sole so I needed to replace it. The shop just finished installing the new teak holly marine grade plywood sole and it looks pretty good. Some gaps are wider than they should be and the subfloor is pieced together poorly but, overall the sole really improves the look of the cabin. Now I'm looking at the bill - actually, choking on it. The shop guy and I apparently miscommunicated in a staggeringly significant manner. I had expected a bill of $4,100 which seemed high but, on the edge of reasonable and, I just couldn't free up enough time to try the job myself. The actual bill is for $9,600I could have freed up a lot more time at $9,600!! So, I'm trying to find out if I just completely underestimated the work and the cost is reasonable...or, if I'm getting totally and completely hosed. I would love to hear opinions on this. By the way, the cost of the wood was about $700. I don't know the cost of the varnish. Steve AndersonShadowCC 41 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com -- Joel 301 541 8551___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Cabin Sole replacement
Steve, Wow! I’m curious where the $4,100 expectation came from. That is a huge difference. The cost of having professionals do any marine work is always a little surprising to me but this does seem high unless there were significant unanticipated challenges associated with the work. In that case you should have been apprised of the situation and given the opportunity for approval. They ought to be able to provide you with the details of the cost factors assuming this was not a firm quote. If it was a firm quote then “miscommunication” is an understatement. Like maybe you missed the second page of the quote with the total on it. Sorry to hear about your situation. Burt From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of steve via CnC-List Sent: Friday, December 12, 2014 4:00 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Cabin Sole replacement I acquired a 1984 CC 41 earlier this year that had a been on the hard for a couple of years. The boat's in pretty good shape and surveyed out nicely. However, it was left with standing water in the bilges. The freeze/thaw cycle completely destroyed the cabin sole so I needed to replace it. The shop just finished installing the new teak holly marine grade plywood sole and it looks pretty good. Some gaps are wider than they should be and the subfloor is pieced together poorly but, overall the sole really improves the look of the cabin. Now I'm looking at the bill - actually, choking on it. The shop guy and I apparently miscommunicated in a staggeringly significant manner. I had expected a bill of $4,100 which seemed high but, on the edge of reasonable and, I just couldn't free up enough time to try the job myself. The actual bill is for $9,600I could have freed up a lot more time at $9,600!! So, I'm trying to find out if I just completely underestimated the work and the cost is reasonable...or, if I'm getting totally and completely hosed. I would love to hear opinions on this. By the way, the cost of the wood was about $700. I don't know the cost of the varnish. Steve Anderson Shadow CC 41 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Cabin Sole replacement
Sounds like there's a need for KY Jelly! On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Burt Stratton via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Steve, Wow! I’m curious where the $4,100 expectation came from. That is a huge difference. The cost of having professionals do any marine work is always a little surprising to me but this does seem high unless there were significant unanticipated challenges associated with the work. In that case you should have been apprised of the situation and given the opportunity for approval. They ought to be able to provide you with the details of the cost factors assuming this was not a firm quote. If it was a firm quote then “miscommunication” is an understatement. Like maybe you missed the second page of the quote with the total on it. Sorry to hear about your situation. Burt *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *steve via CnC-List *Sent:* Friday, December 12, 2014 4:00 PM *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Stus-List Cabin Sole replacement I acquired a 1984 CC 41 earlier this year that had a been on the hard for a couple of years. The boat's in pretty good shape and surveyed out nicely. However, it was left with standing water in the bilges. The freeze/thaw cycle completely destroyed the cabin sole so I needed to replace it. The shop just finished installing the new teak holly marine grade plywood sole and it looks pretty good. Some gaps are wider than they should be and the subfloor is pieced together poorly but, overall the sole really improves the look of the cabin. Now I'm looking at the bill - actually, choking on it. The shop guy and I apparently miscommunicated in a staggeringly significant manner. I had expected a bill of $4,100 which seemed high but, on the edge of reasonable and, I just couldn't free up enough time to try the job myself. The actual bill is for $9,600I could have freed up a lot more time at $9,600!! So, I'm trying to find out if I just completely underestimated the work and the cost is reasonable...or, if I'm getting totally and completely hosed. I would love to hear opinions on this. By the way, the cost of the wood was about $700. I don't know the cost of the varnish. Steve Anderson Shadow CC 41 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Cabin Sole replacement
Steve, I’m in the process of replacing my cabin sole, for the 2nd time stupidly, and this sounds very high for that sort of a job. The others have calculated the costs and I am in agreement with their totals, around $4,200 to rebuild a cabin sole of the size in a 41. And I’m disturbed that some of the fitment is not tight. If they had the originals then there should be no bad joints or looseness. Good work with a router and some hand sanding should make for tight joints. As regards the cost of varnish, I’m using AwlGrip’s Awlwood product this time around and is $70.00/quart for both the clear primer and the gloss finish…. I would try get detailed data on how and what was done on this project. I hope it all works out for you. Best, Dave Godwin 1982 CC 37 - Ronin Reedville - Chesapeake Bay Ronin’s Overdue Refit http://roninrebuild.blogspot.com/ On Dec 12, 2014, at 4:00 PM, steve via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I acquired a 1984 CC 41 earlier this year that had a been on the hard for a couple of years. The boat's in pretty good shape and surveyed out nicely. However, it was left with standing water in the bilges. The freeze/thaw cycle completely destroyed the cabin sole so I needed to replace it. The shop just finished installing the new teak holly marine grade plywood sole and it looks pretty good. Some gaps are wider than they should be and the subfloor is pieced together poorly but, overall the sole really improves the look of the cabin. Now I'm looking at the bill - actually, choking on it. The shop guy and I apparently miscommunicated in a staggeringly significant manner. I had expected a bill of $4,100 which seemed high but, on the edge of reasonable and, I just couldn't free up enough time to try the job myself. The actual bill is for $9,600I could have freed up a lot more time at $9,600!! So, I'm trying to find out if I just completely underestimated the work and the cost is reasonable...or, if I'm getting totally and completely hosed. I would love to hear opinions on this. By the way, the cost of the wood was about $700. I don't know the cost of the varnish. Steve Anderson Shadow CC 41 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Cabin Sole replacement
Steve, I'm sorry if this post is a repeat. I included a couple of photos with my original post which are omitted here. I too just replaced the cabin sole in my 30 MKII. I'm no professional carpenter, so I took my time. Though I thought it was a big job (and one that I probably wouldn't want to do again) I think I could be persuaded to do up new cabin soles for other listers at $9600 each. In other words, I think $9600 is way too high. $4100 sounds about right. div Original message /divdivFrom: steve via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com /divdivDate:12-12-2014 1:00 PM (GMT-08:00) /divdivTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.com /divdivSubject: Stus-List Cabin Sole replacement /divdiv /divI acquired a 1984 CC 41 earlier this year that had a been on the hard for a couple of years. The boat's in pretty good shape and surveyed out nicely. However, it was left with standing water in the bilges. The freeze/thaw cycle completely destroyed the cabin sole so I needed to replace it. The shop just finished installing the new teak holly marine grade plywood sole and it looks pretty good. Some gaps are wider than they should be and the subfloor is pieced together poorly but, overall the sole really improves the look of the cabin. Now I'm looking at the bill - actually, choking on it. The shop guy and I apparently miscommunicated in a staggeringly significant manner. I had expected a bill of $4,100 which seemed high but, on the edge of reasonable and, I just couldn't free up enough time to try the job myself. The actual bill is for $9,600I could have freed up a lot more time at $9,600!! So, I'm trying to find out if I just completely underestimated the work and the cost is reasonable...or, if I'm getting totally and completely hosed. I would love to hear opinions on this. By the way, the cost of the wood was about $700. I don't know the cost of the varnish. Steve Anderson Shadow CC 41 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Cabin Sole replacement
From a procedural point of view I believe the contractor has an inescapable responsibility to inform a client of deliverables, costs and risks in a plainly worded contract. Unless you have given clear carte blanc ro proceed with the job the contractor has a further responsibility to advise you of issues that would prevent the contract to be completed as awarded. Good advise from Bill Walker. Michael Brown Windburn CC 30-1 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 16:55:34 -0500 From: =?utf-8?B?d3dhZGpvdXJuQGFvbC5jb20=?= wwadjo...@aol.com To: =?utf-8?B?RGFuIFV0aW5za2UgdmlhIENuQy1MaXN0?= cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Cabin Sole replacement Message-ID: mailman.615.1418425221.16668.cnc-list_cnc-list@cnc-list.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I replaced my cabin sole on my 36 with European grade teak and holly plywood last winter. Did work myself. Used old for patterns, did work 425 miles from boat and all fit like a glove. Paid about 280 a sheet for ply, pick up at distributor. Needed two sheets. Applied epoxy to bottom and sides of all. 9 coats varnish, sand between every other coat. I estimate 10-!5 hours fabrication, 10-15 hours varnish. Two quarts varnish. The 36 has a lot of floor compared even to a 34. Five separate pieces. This is a ridiculous amount that they want. I wouldn't pay a penny over the yard estimate without really good reason. Call your lawyer. Bill Walker Retired Judge and Lawyer Evening Star CnC 36 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Cabin Sole replacement
Agreed. But my experience of boat yard bills is that are at least 2x the estimate. Sucks. But it is.my reality. I I abide by it and it keeps my out of trouble. David F. Risch. Please excuse brevity and possible typos...sent from my mobile device. div Original message /divdivFrom: Michael Brown via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com /divdivDate:12/12/2014 8:13 PM (GMT-05:00) /divdivTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.com /divdivSubject: Re: Stus-List Cabin Sole replacement /divdiv /div From a procedural point of view I believe the contractor has an inescapable responsibility to inform a client of deliverables, costs and risks in a plainly worded contract. Unless you have given clear carte blanc ro proceed with the job the contractor has a further responsibility to advise you of issues that would prevent the contract to be completed as awarded. Good advise from Bill Walker. Michael Brown Windburn CC 30-1 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 16:55:34 -0500 From: =?utf-8?B?d3dhZGpvdXJuQGFvbC5jb20=?= wwadjo...@aol.com To: =?utf-8?B?RGFuIFV0aW5za2UgdmlhIENuQy1MaXN0?= cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Cabin Sole replacement Message-ID: mailman.615.1418425221.16668.cnc-list_cnc-list@cnc-list.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I replaced my cabin sole on my 36 with European grade teak and holly plywood last winter. Did work myself. Used old for patterns, did work 425 miles from boat and all fit like a glove. Paid about 280 a sheet for ply, pick up at distributor. Needed two sheets. Applied epoxy to bottom and sides of all. 9 coats varnish, sand between every other coat. I estimate 10-!5 hours fabrication, 10-15 hours varnish. Two quarts varnish. The 36 has a lot of floor compared even to a 34. Five separate pieces. This is a ridiculous amount that they want. I wouldn't pay a penny over the yard estimate without really good reason. Call your lawyer. Bill Walker Retired Judge and Lawyer Evening Star CnC 36 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Cabin Sole replacement
you wrote: I think I could be persuaded to do up new cabin soles for other listers at $9600 each. In other words, I think $9600 is way too high. $4100 sounds about right. Roger that. Heck, I'll fly up on my own dime... but you'd have to put me up in the spare bedroom. And I smoke and drink and swear a lot. However, I'm really good with children -- just tonight there was a bonfire on the beach and someone contributed a small wooden child's chair. I went in search of a child to lash down to the chair before the fire caught. (Ummm, VBG) Wal -- s/v Stella Blue www.wbryant.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
