Re: Stus-List Mainsail replacement considerations - winter reading

[Dave via CnC-List]

Getting close to a mainsail decision and will post more before long - very much 
in line with the various pieces of advice I received from fellow listers.   I 
will summarize all of that soon.

   Kevin was dead on - the blog itself is a wealth of info, well written, very 
relevant etc, however I also noticed that the blogger (Brian Hancock) offers a 
"free gift" for becoming a subscriber.  So, I took the bait, and the gift 
turned out to be the e-book Kevin refers to.Kevin, you mention that the 
book may be outdated with respect to fabric, and maybe so, but for many "Dacron 
grade" sailors like me this may not matter much.   I found the book to be very 
relevant, and like the blog, well written.  Timely for me, but a solid, 
comprehensive  winter read on the subject, and for most here I think, worth 
many times the price.   ;-)

Dave.  33-2 Windstar.





Message: 1
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2016 15:55:22 +
From: Kevin Driscoll <kevindrisc...@gmail.com>
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mainsail replacement considerations
Message-ID:
   <ca+lfbypxie3kshgawy+72s2brnx3-d2b_2w3txcx-qxcrjm...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

If I were buying a sail right now I would be reading everything on Brian
Hancock's blog about lofts, cuts, and fiber. You can find it here.
<http://www.greatcirclesails.com/maximum-sail-power-blog.html> This guy is
a professional and up on the latest developments in fiber technology, which
is valuable since it is changing every season. He also has a book *Maximum
Sail Power* which may be a little dated in the fiber department, but the
fundamentals are still there.

>snip<

KD
30-2

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Re: Stus-List Mainsail replacement considerations

[Dave S via CnC-List]

Interestingly, I have asked only for a replacement mainsail, and two lofts
(both have a sense of my intended use, and know the dimensions) are going
to quote, without having asked me any further questions.
I am working my way through the Sailpower blog as recommended here by Kevin
Driscoll.  Interesting stuff, and between that and the comments from
listers I should come out the other end with a clear specification for my
purposes.

Combined purchase?   Might make sense, especially if shipping and customs
clearance is involved. The border and foreign exchange add to the
commercial complexity, so local is good for a few reasons.   That said, I
found for my a-spin that Rolly Tasker in Thailand was extrememly
competitive and reliable,  (sail not used yet...)  even though mine was
custom, and not an off the rack model. Couldn't hurt to share knowledge
anyway. I have a few people interested in quoting, some directed my
list members. (thanks!)   I think I've had some discussions with Spike in
the past...

Once the smoke clears I will probably post findings/specification on my own
blog page and here, where the advice of list members has helped a lot
already.

Dave




Message: 5
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2016 12:39:48 +
From: Bradley Lumgair <lumg...@hotmail.com>
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Subject: Stus-List  Mainsail replacement considerations
Message-ID:
<dm5pr01mb2635be22e9bf58ec43b3dc3aa6...@dm5pr01mb2635.prod.
exchangelabs.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Dave
Maybe we should combine our orders, I'll be looking for a new main this
winter for our '85 33-2. Have dealt with Spike here at Doyle Boston, and am
happy with what we got. He's "very" local and an active part of our race
program here in Sarnia.
Brad
"Pulse"
1985 C 33-2
Lake Huron
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Stus-List Mainsail replacement considerations

[Bradley Lumgair via CnC-List]

Dave
Maybe we should combine our orders, I'll be looking for a new main this winter 
for our '85 33-2. Have dealt with Spike here at Doyle Boston, and am happy with 
what we got. He's "very" local and an active part of our race program here in 
Sarnia.
Brad
"Pulse" 
1985 C 33-2
Lake Huron


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Re: Stus-List Mainsail replacement considerations

[Dave S via CnC-List]

 Joel, you weren't kidding!   Lots to read up on tonight, ( I may have some
questions once I digest this) two PMs offering to quote!  Thanks all.I
wonder if lavalife works this well?  ;-)
Seriously - it makes sense I suppose - its a pretty important part of the
system.


Dave



From: Joel Aronson <joel.aron...@gmail.com>
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mainsail replacement considerations
Message-ID:
<cael16p_v2zra-4o1i_veavw4g3bxgzgnz7fkrrdc5bdi__h...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Dave,

50 sailors will have 100 opinions on this one!
I would go with a high quality Dacron cross-cut with at least 2 full
battens, a loose foot, 2 reef point points.  Their Coastal Cruising sail
sounds like a good fit for you.  The cunningham is important for
controlling luff tension.  Much easier to load up than a halyard.
I had one of their gennies on my 35/3.  Other than some restitching of the
UV cover, the sail looked like new after 3,000+ miles.

RT does not do much in laminates.  UK does not do much in dacron.

Joel

On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 8:55 AM, Dave S via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
wrote:

> Just received the results from the fall check-up and the local sail
> loft has diagnosed Windstar's ('85 33-2) mainsail as "beyond
> expired".   Cue the Monty Python...
>
> The current main has two sets of reef points, (cringle at the leech
> and and ring-on-webbing-straps at the luff.)
> No telltales other than streamers off the leech.
> IIRC there may be a leech line.
> 4 partial battens battens.
> There are two cringles at the clew, one above the other, and what I
> believe is called a "shelf" of lighter weight cloth along the foot.  Have
> never used this out of ignorance, but perhaps I should.
> it has a rope foot, slides on the luff.
>
> I will have Rolly Tasker in Thailand quote, as well as UK sails here in
> Toronto.
>
>
> I value the 33-2's performance but most of my sailing is recreational
> sailing here on Lake Ontario.  Would like to distance race but not looking
> to be ultra-competitive at the top level.  Don't want to buy another
> Main for this boat in the next decade.
>
> Any thoughts or recommendations on a replacement, or comments on sail
> lofts?   Many thanks!
>
> Dave
> Windstar 33-2
>
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Re: Stus-List Mainsail replacement considerations

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Probably true, but it applies only provided that there is a local sail loft in 
your area and that they would be willing to come to your boat.

I tried to deal with Doyle, who claim that they have a local representation and 
nobody was willing to come to the boat and
the sail would not be made locally, anyway.

And the initial quote (rough, mind you) was at least double compared with just 
about anyone else.

So local lofts might be great if you are in selected areas of the US, but 
outside they are hardly an option.

just my (Canadian) two cents.

Marek
in Ottawa, ON


From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 12:12
To: C List
Cc: Josh Muckley
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mainsail replacement considerations


I think the knowledge and service of a local sail loft is invaluable.  They 
come to your boat and take measurements.  Ask questions and help design a 
custom sail to fit your needs.  I only have Quantum in my area so... I have 
Quantum sails.  They are responsive and provide the personal service I'm 
looking for.

I had the Tides-Marine Strong track system added when I purchased my new 
mainsail.  I wouldn't do it any other way.   It is a quality upgrade which I 
strongly recommend.

You can have a sail pack made anytime but I have also been very happy with the 
usefulness and ease of having a sailpack.

Get multiple quotes and take them to competing sail lofts.  Have them explain 
the differences between the quotes.  The sail makers will recognize the 
design/cost differences and the advantages/disadvantages between two seemingly 
similar spec sheets.  I found that despite having what I thought should be 
similar spec sails they were very different prices.  Once the sail maker 
adjusted the designs to match, the prices were within a few hundred dollars.  
The local service, adjustments, corrections, and test sail all more than made 
up for the few hundred dollars difference in price.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8pEh5lnvP1yTXFxb2RQVGJqb0E

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8pEh5lnvP1yakFDZERscXFTaUE

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD


On Oct 13, 2016 8:56 AM, "Dave S via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
Just received the results from the fall check-up and the local sail loft has 
diagnosed Windstar's ('85 33-2) mainsail as "beyond expired".   Cue the Monty 
Python...

The current main has two sets of reef points, (cringle at the leech and and 
ring-on-webbing-straps at the luff.)
No telltales other than streamers off the leech.
IIRC there may be a leech line.
4 partial battens battens.
There are two cringles at the clew, one above the other, and what I believe is 
called a "shelf" of lighter weight cloth along the foot.  Have never used this 
out of ignorance, but perhaps I should.
it has a rope foot, slides on the luff.

I will have Rolly Tasker in Thailand quote, as well as UK sails here in Toronto.


I value the 33-2's performance but most of my sailing is recreational sailing 
here on Lake Ontario.  Would like to distance race but not looking to be 
ultra-competitive at the top level.  Don't want to buy another Main for 
this boat in the next decade.

Any thoughts or recommendations on a replacement, or comments on sail lofts?   
Many thanks!

Dave
Windstar 33-2

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Re: Stus-List Mainsail replacement considerations

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

In my area, a few of us subscribe to a laminate headsail/Dacron main
philosophy.  Seems to work pretty well.  I think for the older C's, it's
particularly viable since the boats are primarily head sail driven.

Touche's racing main is a 1 full + 3 partial batten, loose footed,
triradial square weave Dacron main that has has performed well.  My
cruising main is a Dacron crosscut 2 full + 2 partial batten fixed footed
main that has seen about 10,000 nm service.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
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Re: Stus-List Mainsail replacement considerations

[Stevan Plavsa via CnC-List]

Iv'e got two headsails from Rolly Tasker dealing with the factory in
Thailand now and I'm very happy with both. I got the "offshore cruising"
sails. So I didn't get their cheapest.

Local lofts wanted twice. I'm of the opinion that a sailboat owner needs to
do as much of their own work aboard their boat - this includes measuring
for sails. You really don't need a professional to do this for you. Unless
you have deep pockets and want every last ounce of performance. Queue the
racers...

No doubt you may get features you did not even consider but I live in
ignorant bliss and still have money in my pocket.

Precision wanted more money for the same features and while pleasant, were
very aggressive. When I asked them if they could get me a sail in x amount
of time, they said not at any price, just not possible. I told them that
Rolly could get me one in that timeframe from Thailand but I would prefer
to deal with a 'local' loft (which I was really considering, especially in
light of the CAD/USD - Rolly deals in USD). They said, "If you're ok with a
generic sail and we can't dissuade you, that loft makes batches of the same
sails and then sells them as custom". They went on to admonish them some
more and were actually quite nasty about it, "if you're ok with a crappy
sail" kind of attitude. I was like, "Oh really?" and promptly never spoke
to them again. I don't mind some competition, but badmouthing the
competition and belittling your customers is just bad business.

And guess what? My custom sail from Thailand arrived exactly on time for my
summer cruise this year. I saved money AND I got it faster. It's a nice
sail, to boot.

I'm like you. We pleasure sail and cruise only. All I know is I can achieve
optimal sail trim with my new sails on my old boat, that's good enough for
me.
I have a 155 and a 115. Same exact design, just different surface area. No
foam luff, crosscut 'offshore' dacron sails, I change sails to suit the
conditions and try not to furl to reef, I hate it.

At the end of the day I want good sails that will last. I think Rolly's
sails are at the top of the price/performance spectrum - you can spend more
money but with diminishing returns.

Steve
Suhana, C 32
Toronto
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Re: Stus-List Mainsail replacement considerations

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

 I have a 3Di 155% genoa which has survived three years of racing. The
previous 3Dr ( yes "r" ) lasted 6 weeks, and the replacement 3DL accumulated
$1,200 in repairs by the end of the second summer. The 3Di has had some
minor winter sail care, edges done due to lifeline or stanchion chafe. I suspect
it will be fine for another two years.

The 3Di is a premium priced sail but I think for me it will be cheaper in the 
long run.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


From: Kevin Driscoll  
 
If I were buying a sail right now I would be reading everything on Brian 
Hancock's blog about lofts, cuts, and fiber. You can find it here. 
 This guy is 
a professional and up on the latest developments in fiber technology, which 
is valuable since it is changing every season. He also has a book *Maximum 
Sail Power* which may be a little dated in the fiber department, but the 
fundamentals are still there. 
 
FWIW, I race on a boat with North 3Di (which is / has replaced 3DL) and the 
sails are bomb proof and fast. They will outlast any Dacron sail IMO. They 
take a beating and keep on ticking. The taffeta laminate sails don't like 
to be neglected or too much UV, which is why their longevity suffers in the 
hands of some cruisers. 
 
KD 
30-2 
 

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Re: Stus-List Mainsail replacement considerations

[Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List]

One thing I forgot to add about North 3Diit is VERY expensive! (same
stuff they used on Volvo 60's this past edition)

On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 9:12 AM Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I think the knowledge and service of a local sail loft is invaluable.
> They come to your boat and take measurements.  Ask questions and help
> design a custom sail to fit your needs.  I only have Quantum in my area
> so... I have Quantum sails.  They are responsive and provide the personal
> service I'm looking for.
>
> I had the Tides-Marine Strong track system added when I purchased my new
> mainsail.  I wouldn't do it any other way.   It is a quality upgrade which
> I strongly recommend.
>
> You can have a sail pack made anytime but I have also been very happy with
> the usefulness and ease of having a sailpack.
>
> Get multiple quotes and take them to competing sail lofts.  Have them
> explain the differences between the quotes.  The sail makers will recognize
> the design/cost differences and the advantages/disadvantages between two
> seemingly similar spec sheets.  I found that despite having what I thought
> should be similar spec sails they were very different prices.  Once the
> sail maker adjusted the designs to match, the prices were within a few
> hundred dollars.  The local service, adjustments, corrections, and test
> sail all more than made up for the few hundred dollars difference in price.
>
> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8pEh5lnvP1yTXFxb2RQVGJqb0E
>
> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8pEh5lnvP1yakFDZERscXFTaUE
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
> On Oct 13, 2016 8:56 AM, "Dave S via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
>
> Just received the results from the fall check-up and the local sail
> loft has diagnosed Windstar's ('85 33-2) mainsail as "beyond
> expired".   Cue the Monty Python...
>
> The current main has two sets of reef points, (cringle at the leech
> and and ring-on-webbing-straps at the luff.)
> No telltales other than streamers off the leech.
> IIRC there may be a leech line.
> 4 partial battens battens.
> There are two cringles at the clew, one above the other, and what I
> believe is called a "shelf" of lighter weight cloth along the foot.  Have
> never used this out of ignorance, but perhaps I should.
> it has a rope foot, slides on the luff.
>
> I will have Rolly Tasker in Thailand quote, as well as UK sails here in
> Toronto.
>
>
> I value the 33-2's performance but most of my sailing is recreational
> sailing here on Lake Ontario.  Would like to distance race but not looking
> to be ultra-competitive at the top level.  Don't want to buy another
> Main for this boat in the next decade.
>
> Any thoughts or recommendations on a replacement, or comments on sail
> lofts?   Many thanks!
>
> Dave
> Windstar 33-2
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Mainsail replacement considerations

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

I think the knowledge and service of a local sail loft is invaluable.  They
come to your boat and take measurements.  Ask questions and help design a
custom sail to fit your needs.  I only have Quantum in my area so... I have
Quantum sails.  They are responsive and provide the personal service I'm
looking for.

I had the Tides-Marine Strong track system added when I purchased my new
mainsail.  I wouldn't do it any other way.   It is a quality upgrade which
I strongly recommend.

You can have a sail pack made anytime but I have also been very happy with
the usefulness and ease of having a sailpack.

Get multiple quotes and take them to competing sail lofts.  Have them
explain the differences between the quotes.  The sail makers will recognize
the design/cost differences and the advantages/disadvantages between two
seemingly similar spec sheets.  I found that despite having what I thought
should be similar spec sails they were very different prices.  Once the
sail maker adjusted the designs to match, the prices were within a few
hundred dollars.  The local service, adjustments, corrections, and test
sail all more than made up for the few hundred dollars difference in price.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8pEh5lnvP1yTXFxb2RQVGJqb0E

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8pEh5lnvP1yakFDZERscXFTaUE

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Oct 13, 2016 8:56 AM, "Dave S via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Just received the results from the fall check-up and the local sail
> loft has diagnosed Windstar's ('85 33-2) mainsail as "beyond
> expired".   Cue the Monty Python...
>
> The current main has two sets of reef points, (cringle at the leech
> and and ring-on-webbing-straps at the luff.)
> No telltales other than streamers off the leech.
> IIRC there may be a leech line.
> 4 partial battens battens.
> There are two cringles at the clew, one above the other, and what I
> believe is called a "shelf" of lighter weight cloth along the foot.  Have
> never used this out of ignorance, but perhaps I should.
> it has a rope foot, slides on the luff.
>
> I will have Rolly Tasker in Thailand quote, as well as UK sails here in
> Toronto.
>
>
> I value the 33-2's performance but most of my sailing is recreational
> sailing here on Lake Ontario.  Would like to distance race but not looking
> to be ultra-competitive at the top level.  Don't want to buy another
> Main for this boat in the next decade.
>
> Any thoughts or recommendations on a replacement, or comments on sail
> lofts?   Many thanks!
>
> Dave
> Windstar 33-2
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Mainsail replacement considerations

[Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List]

If I were buying a sail right now I would be reading everything on Brian
Hancock's blog about lofts, cuts, and fiber. You can find it here.
<http://www.greatcirclesails.com/maximum-sail-power-blog.html> This guy is
a professional and up on the latest developments in fiber technology, which
is valuable since it is changing every season. He also has a book *Maximum
Sail Power* which may be a little dated in the fiber department, but the
fundamentals are still there.

FWIW, I race on a boat with North 3Di (which is / has replaced 3DL) and the
sails are bomb proof and fast. They will outlast any Dacron sail IMO. They
take a beating and keep on ticking. The taffeta laminate sails don't like
to be neglected or too much UV, which is why their longevity suffers in the
hands of some cruisers.

KD
30-2

On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 8:12 AM Danny Haughey via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> that's where I got my head sail this year.
>
> Danny
>
> On 10/13/2016 10:59 AM, Martin Kane via CnC-List wrote:
>
> Dave
>
> Check out Precision Sails in Victoria BC. They have a great on-line site.
> Sails are made Asia somewhere but inspected and shipped from BC.  I got a
> 135 and asym from them this year. Very happy with the product and price.
>
>
>
> Martin
>
> C 29-2 Recalculating
>
> MCC Toronto
>
>
>
> *From:* Dave S [mailto:syerd...@gmail.com <syerd...@gmail.com>]
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 13, 2016 8:56 AM
> *To:* C Stus List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> *Subject:* Stus-List Mainsail replacement considerations
>
>
>
> Just received the results from the fall check-up and the local sail
> loft has diagnosed Windstar's ('85 33-2) mainsail as "beyond
> expired".   Cue the Monty Python...
>
>
>
> The current main has two sets of reef points, (cringle at the leech
> and and ring-on-webbing-straps at the luff.)
>
> No telltales other than streamers off the leech.
>
> IIRC there may be a leech line.
>
> 4 partial battens battens.
>
> There are two cringles at the clew, one above the other, and what I
> believe is called a "shelf" of lighter weight cloth along the foot.  Have
> never used this out of ignorance, but perhaps I should.
>
> it has a rope foot, slides on the luff.
>
>
>
> I will have Rolly Tasker in Thailand quote, as well as UK sails here in
> Toronto.
>
>
>
>
>
> I value the 33-2's performance but most of my sailing is recreational
> sailing here on Lake Ontario.  Would like to distance race but not looking
> to be ultra-competitive at the top level.  Don't want to buy another
> Main for this boat in the next decade.
>
>
>
> Any thoughts or recommendations on a replacement, or comments on sail
> lofts?   Many thanks!
>
>
>
> Dave
>
> Windstar 33-2
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Mainsail replacement considerations

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

that's where I got my head sail this year.

Danny


On 10/13/2016 10:59 AM, Martin Kane via CnC-List wrote:


Dave

Check out Precision Sails in Victoria BC. They have a great on-line 
site. Sails are made Asia somewhere but inspected and shipped from 
BC.  I got a 135 and asym from them this year. Very happy with the 
product and price.


Martin

C 29-2 Recalculating

MCC Toronto

*From:*Dave S [mailto:syerd...@gmail.com]
*Sent:* Thursday, October 13, 2016 8:56 AM
*To:* C Stus List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
*Subject:* Stus-List Mainsail replacement considerations

Just received the results from the fall check-up and the local sail 
loft has diagnosed Windstar's ('85 33-2) mainsail as "beyond 
expired".   Cue the Monty Python...


The current main has two sets of reef points, (cringle at the leech 
and and ring-on-webbing-straps at the luff.)


No telltales other than streamers off the leech.

IIRC there may be a leech line.

4 partial battens battens.

There are two cringles at the clew, one above the other, and what I 
believe is called a "shelf" of lighter weight cloth along the foot.  
Have never used this out of ignorance, but perhaps I should.


it has a rope foot, slides on the luff.

I will have Rolly Tasker in Thailand quote, as well as UK sails here 
in Toronto.


I value the 33-2's performance but most of my sailing is recreational 
sailing here on Lake Ontario.  Would like to distance race but 
not looking to be ultra-competitive at the top level.  Don't want 
to buy another Main for this boat in the next decade.


Any thoughts or recommendations on a replacement, or comments on sail 
lofts?   Many thanks!


Dave

Windstar 33-2



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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!


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This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Mainsail replacement considerations

[Martin Kane via CnC-List]

Dave 

Check out Precision Sails in Victoria BC. They have a great on-line site. Sails 
are made Asia somewhere but inspected and shipped from BC.  I got a 135 and 
asym from them this year. Very happy with the product and price.

 

Martin 

C 29-2 Recalculating

MCC Toronto

 

From: Dave S [mailto:syerd...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 8:56 AM
To: C Stus List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Subject: Stus-List Mainsail replacement considerations

 

Just received the results from the fall check-up and the local sail loft has 
diagnosed Windstar's ('85 33-2) mainsail as "beyond expired".   Cue the Monty 
Python...

 

The current main has two sets of reef points, (cringle at the leech and and 
ring-on-webbing-straps at the luff.)   

No telltales other than streamers off the leech.   

IIRC there may be a leech line.  

4 partial battens battens.   

There are two cringles at the clew, one above the other, and what I believe is 
called a "shelf" of lighter weight cloth along the foot.  Have never used this 
out of ignorance, but perhaps I should.  

it has a rope foot, slides on the luff.   

 

I will have Rolly Tasker in Thailand quote, as well as UK sails here in Toronto.

 

 

I value the 33-2's performance but most of my sailing is recreational sailing 
here on Lake Ontario.  Would like to distance race but not looking to be 
ultra-competitive at the top level.  Don't want to buy another Main for 
this boat in the next decade.  

 

Any thoughts or recommendations on a replacement, or comments on sail lofts?   
Many thanks!

 

Dave  

Windstar 33-2

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Mainsail replacement considerations

[Steve Thomas via CnC-List]

You should talk to Doyle Boston Sailmakers in Sarnia. They have done a lot of 
work for me over the years, including re-cutting and re-sizing, as well as a 
brand  new Dacron genoa. Not the cheapest option for new sails, but they are 
the go-to guys for the racers around here and they just might be able to 
breathe some new life into your baffed out old main. Full battens in a main can 
work wonders in light air. Or they might not, but they will tell you if you 
take the sail there. They are located close to the Bluewater Bridge and the 
Sarnia Yacht Club. 

Steve Thomas
C MKIII
Port Stanley, ON

 Dave S via CnC-List  wrote: 
Just received the results from the fall check-up and the local sail
loft has diagnosed Windstar's ('85 33-2) mainsail as "beyond
expired".   Cue the Monty Python...

The current main has two sets of reef points, (cringle at the leech and and
ring-on-webbing-straps at the luff.)
No telltales other than streamers off the leech.
IIRC there may be a leech line.
4 partial battens battens.
There are two cringles at the clew, one above the other, and what I believe
is called a "shelf" of lighter weight cloth along the foot.  Have never
used this out of ignorance, but perhaps I should.
it has a rope foot, slides on the luff.

I will have Rolly Tasker in Thailand quote, as well as UK sails here in
Toronto.


I value the 33-2's performance but most of my sailing is recreational
sailing here on Lake Ontario.  Would like to distance race but not looking
to be ultra-competitive at the top level.  Don't want to buy another
Main for this boat in the next decade.

Any thoughts or recommendations on a replacement, or comments on sail
lofts?   Many thanks!

Dave
Windstar 33-2


___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Mainsail replacement considerations

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Dave,

usually the coastal cruising sails are good enough for recreational sailing 
(one would hope that you are not planning to sail regularly in 40+ kt winds). 
This way you can select lighter cloth – the sail will be lighter and cheaper.

I would, certainly, specify two reef points and “ring–on-webbing-straps” (or 
dog-bones) at the luff. I find that they are extremely handy when you need to 
reef.

Most sail lofts will offer a main with 4 full battens (for no or very little 
extra cost). I think it is worth it (keeps the sail shape better).

I would look at the good reinforcements at the corners; this may differentiate 
between the sail makers.

If you are ordering on-line (i.e. you won’t have the loft measuring your sail – 
you would have to do it), consider a small sail maker just outside of Buffalo, 
NY – Somerset Sails. I am not suggesting that they are better than most, but 
they are usually very competitively priced. Opinions vary. I am pretty happy 
with the sails I got from them.

Marek
1994 C270 “Legato”
Ottawa, ON

From: Joel Aronson via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 09:20
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Joel Aronson
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mainsail replacement considerations

Dave,

50 sailors will have 100 opinions on this one!
I would go with a high quality Dacron cross-cut with at least 2 full battens, a 
loose foot, 2 reef point points.  Their Coastal Cruising sail sounds like a 
good fit for you.  The cunningham is important for controlling luff tension.  
Much easier to load up than a halyard.
I had one of their gennies on my 35/3.  Other than some restitching of the UV 
cover, the sail looked like new after 3,000+ miles.

RT does not do much in laminates.  UK does not do much in dacron.

Joel

On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 8:55 AM, Dave S via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
wrote:
Just received the results from the fall check-up and the local sail loft has 
diagnosed Windstar's ('85 33-2) mainsail as "beyond expired".   Cue the Monty 
Python...

The current main has two sets of reef points, (cringle at the leech and and 
ring-on-webbing-straps at the luff.)
No telltales other than streamers off the leech.
IIRC there may be a leech line.
4 partial battens battens.
There are two cringles at the clew, one above the other, and what I believe is 
called a "shelf" of lighter weight cloth along the foot.  Have never used this 
out of ignorance, but perhaps I should.
it has a rope foot, slides on the luff.

I will have Rolly Tasker in Thailand quote, as well as UK sails here in Toronto.


I value the 33-2's performance but most of my sailing is recreational sailing 
here on Lake Ontario.  Would like to distance race but not looking to be 
ultra-competitive at the top level.  Don't want to buy another Main for 
this boat in the next decade.

Any thoughts or recommendations on a replacement, or comments on sail lofts?   
Many thanks!

Dave
Windstar 33-2

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!




--
Joel
301 541 8551
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Mainsail replacement considerations

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

I've now researched and purchased sails for my last 2 boats. Main and 
head for the Viking 33 and head sail for the new boat.


I've come to the conclusion that you can get good sails from Rolly (or 
any other mail order sail loft) if you don't buy their cheapest sail.  
The head sail on my current boat was a rolley tasker and it was a mess.  
I'm certain they bought the cheapest sail they could find.  I may bring 
that in for an inspection as well.  If it is serviceable I may have it 
fixed up as a spare. I don't think it was very old but, I think it was 
left, furled on the furler, exposed to the elements for years.  It only 
had a dacron sun cover.  Otherwise, I'll donate it and get a sea bag.  I 
think it may be usable if they re-cut it and make a smaller head sail, 
say a 100 or a 110 percent.


you can spec good sailcloth from a mail order loft but then the price 
closes in on the local loft prices.


For the Viking,  I got Quantum sails from a local sail maker, got a 15 
percent boat show discount and the price fell right in between the local 
loft's non-discounted prices and the inexpensive mail order prices.


This latest sail I got from a Canadian mail order sail loft and ordered 
their highest grade cruising sail.  I'll be bringing that in for an 
inspection cleaning and storage pretty soon so, I'll get a better review 
at that time.  It seems like a really nice sail and compared to the 
mainsail, (which was already review by the local guy for inspection and 
storage last year and he said it was good, well built sail) and my 
untrained eye it seemed to be a better built sail.  4 rows of stitching, 
highly reinforced corners, Heavy Challenge Marlehead dacron and I think 
I got it for good price.  The main I compared it to is a Neil Pride 
sail. which, I understand, has a good reputation for making high quality 
sails.


Hope this helps some,

Danny


On 10/13/2016 9:19 AM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List wrote:

Dave,

50 sailors will have 100 opinions on this one!
I would go with a high quality Dacron cross-cut with at least 2 full 
battens, a loose foot, 2 reef point points. Their Coastal Cruising 
sail sounds like a good fit for you. The cunningham is important for 
controlling luff tension. Much easier to load up than a halyard.
I had one of their gennies on my 35/3.  Other than some restitching of 
the UV cover, the sail looked like new after 3,000+ miles.


RT does not do much in laminates.  UK does not do much in dacron.

Joel

On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 8:55 AM, Dave S via CnC-List 
> wrote:


Just received the results from the fall check-up and the local
sail loft has diagnosed Windstar's ('85 33-2) mainsail as "beyond
expired".   Cue the Monty Python...

The current main has two sets of reef points, (cringle at the
leech and and ring-on-webbing-straps at the luff.)
No telltales other than streamers off the leech.
IIRC there may be a leech line.
4 partial battens battens.
There are two cringles at the clew, one above the other, and what
I believe is called a "shelf" of lighter weight cloth along the
foot.  Have never used this out of ignorance, but perhaps I should.
it has a rope foot, slides on the luff.

I will have Rolly Tasker in Thailand quote, as well as UK sails
here in Toronto.


I value the 33-2's performance but most of my sailing
is recreational sailing here on Lake Ontario.  Would like to
distance race but not looking to be ultra-competitive at the top
level.  Don't want to buy another Main for this boat in the
next decade.

Any thoughts or recommendations on a replacement, or comments on
sail lofts?   Many thanks!

Dave
Windstar 33-2

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members.
If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by
donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!




--
Joel
301 541 8551


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Mainsail replacement considerations

[Aaron Rouhi via CnC-List]

I recommend Quantum loft in Annapolis. Great service and decent price. It 
obviously pricier than online lofts but having a knowledgeable local shop is a 
great perk...


Cheers,
Aaron R.
Admiral Maggie,
1979 C 30 MK1 #540
Annapolis, MD



From: CnC-List <cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com> on behalf of Dave S via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 8:55 AM
To: C Stus List
Cc: Dave S
Subject: Stus-List Mainsail replacement considerations

Just received the results from the fall check-up and the local sail loft has 
diagnosed Windstar's ('85 33-2) mainsail as "beyond expired".   Cue the Monty 
Python...

The current main has two sets of reef points, (cringle at the leech and and 
ring-on-webbing-straps at the luff.)
No telltales other than streamers off the leech.
IIRC there may be a leech line.
4 partial battens battens.
There are two cringles at the clew, one above the other, and what I believe is 
called a "shelf" of lighter weight cloth along the foot.  Have never used this 
out of ignorance, but perhaps I should.
it has a rope foot, slides on the luff.

I will have Rolly Tasker in Thailand quote, as well as UK sails here in Toronto.


I value the 33-2's performance but most of my sailing is recreational sailing 
here on Lake Ontario.  Would like to distance race but not looking to be 
ultra-competitive at the top level.  Don't want to buy another Main for 
this boat in the next decade.

Any thoughts or recommendations on a replacement, or comments on sail lofts?   
Many thanks!

Dave
Windstar 33-2
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Mainsail replacement considerations

[Gary Nylander via CnC-List]

I pretty much agree with Joel for the features on this one. Having had 
experience with both high-tech laminates(2) and dacron (2) in the past 20+ 
years, I would go with the dacron  option as well. The high tech stuff will 
keep its shape until it doesn’t, and then it delaminates – and you have 
nothing! I had a very nice 3DL genoa which was great until it dissolved into a 
bag of strings…. The dacron can be recut if it gets old – and it will slowly 
get old and may need a tune up a few years into its life. Add some draft 
stripes so you can keep track of the shape (I have 2). The shelf deal is not 
that important, it was a throw-back to the days of non loose footed sails. I 
have gone with a single full length batten up top and three partials, but that 
is just my (and a couple of sailmakers) choice.

 

And, get good cloth, that is the most important feature. Maybe a little heavier 
than what the cheap options suggest, just for longevity sake. I crew on a J-105 
at times and the new high tech sails he has are like plywood they are so stiff, 
but they hold their shape like plastic in heavy or light air. But, he will toss 
them when they stop doing that.

 

Good luck, the studying is as much fun as sailing itself.

 

Gary

Maryland

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel Aronson 
via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 9:19 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Joel Aronson <joel.aron...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mainsail replacement considerations

 

Dave,

 

50 sailors will have 100 opinions on this one!

I would go with a high quality Dacron cross-cut with at least 2 full battens, a 
loose foot, 2 reef point points.  Their Coastal Cruising sail sounds like a 
good fit for you.  The cunningham is important for controlling luff tension.  
Much easier to load up than a halyard.

I had one of their gennies on my 35/3.  Other than some restitching of the UV 
cover, the sail looked like new after 3,000+ miles.

 

RT does not do much in laminates.  UK does not do much in dacron.

 

Joel

 

On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 8:55 AM, Dave S via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

Just received the results from the fall check-up and the local sail loft has 
diagnosed Windstar's ('85 33-2) mainsail as "beyond expired".   Cue the Monty 
Python...

 

The current main has two sets of reef points, (cringle at the leech and and 
ring-on-webbing-straps at the luff.)   

No telltales other than streamers off the leech.   

IIRC there may be a leech line.  

4 partial battens battens.   

There are two cringles at the clew, one above the other, and what I believe is 
called a "shelf" of lighter weight cloth along the foot.  Have never used this 
out of ignorance, but perhaps I should.  

it has a rope foot, slides on the luff.   

 

I will have Rolly Tasker in Thailand quote, as well as UK sails here in Toronto.

 

 

I value the 33-2's performance but most of my sailing is recreational sailing 
here on Lake Ontario.  Would like to distance race but not looking to be 
ultra-competitive at the top level.  Don't want to buy another Main for 
this boat in the next decade.  

 

Any thoughts or recommendations on a replacement, or comments on sail lofts?   
Many thanks!

 

Dave  

Windstar 33-2


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!





 

-- 

Joel 
301 541 8551

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Mainsail replacement considerations

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Dave,

50 sailors will have 100 opinions on this one!
I would go with a high quality Dacron cross-cut with at least 2 full
battens, a loose foot, 2 reef point points.  Their Coastal Cruising sail
sounds like a good fit for you.  The cunningham is important for
controlling luff tension.  Much easier to load up than a halyard.
I had one of their gennies on my 35/3.  Other than some restitching of the
UV cover, the sail looked like new after 3,000+ miles.

RT does not do much in laminates.  UK does not do much in dacron.

Joel

On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 8:55 AM, Dave S via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Just received the results from the fall check-up and the local sail
> loft has diagnosed Windstar's ('85 33-2) mainsail as "beyond
> expired".   Cue the Monty Python...
>
> The current main has two sets of reef points, (cringle at the leech
> and and ring-on-webbing-straps at the luff.)
> No telltales other than streamers off the leech.
> IIRC there may be a leech line.
> 4 partial battens battens.
> There are two cringles at the clew, one above the other, and what I
> believe is called a "shelf" of lighter weight cloth along the foot.  Have
> never used this out of ignorance, but perhaps I should.
> it has a rope foot, slides on the luff.
>
> I will have Rolly Tasker in Thailand quote, as well as UK sails here in
> Toronto.
>
>
> I value the 33-2's performance but most of my sailing is recreational
> sailing here on Lake Ontario.  Would like to distance race but not looking
> to be ultra-competitive at the top level.  Don't want to buy another
> Main for this boat in the next decade.
>
> Any thoughts or recommendations on a replacement, or comments on sail
> lofts?   Many thanks!
>
> Dave
> Windstar 33-2
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Stus-List Mainsail replacement considerations

[Dave S via CnC-List]

Just received the results from the fall check-up and the local sail
loft has diagnosed Windstar's ('85 33-2) mainsail as "beyond
expired".   Cue the Monty Python...

The current main has two sets of reef points, (cringle at the leech and and
ring-on-webbing-straps at the luff.)
No telltales other than streamers off the leech.
IIRC there may be a leech line.
4 partial battens battens.
There are two cringles at the clew, one above the other, and what I believe
is called a "shelf" of lighter weight cloth along the foot.  Have never
used this out of ignorance, but perhaps I should.
it has a rope foot, slides on the luff.

I will have Rolly Tasker in Thailand quote, as well as UK sails here in
Toronto.


I value the 33-2's performance but most of my sailing is recreational
sailing here on Lake Ontario.  Would like to distance race but not looking
to be ultra-competitive at the top level.  Don't want to buy another
Main for this boat in the next decade.

Any thoughts or recommendations on a replacement, or comments on sail
lofts?   Many thanks!

Dave
Windstar 33-2
___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!