Re: Stus-List SOS signals - LED light to replace flares?

[Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List]

I have expired SOLAS flares from life raft service places for free.
Parachute, day/smoke, water color die, handheld etc. I have more than one
of each of these plus old inner tubes to light on fire in case of total
Armageddon.  These are what I would expect to draw attention, not the wimpy
USCG crapola.

However, a light that has a 60hr operating time, that anyone on the crew
can use and not start a fire or burn themselves, and it never expires to
meet regulationsa no brainer.

Oh yes, the obvious as said...PLB, EPIRB, handheld VHF etc.

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 8:57 AM Michael Brown via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Good points.
>
> Unfortunately the advice I have received is that testing or practicing
> with expired flares is
> illegal, at least in Canada. I could imagine in a sudden distress
> situation, particularly including
> heavy wind and waves, that a crew member that has never fired or even
> loaded a shotgun
> style flare gun might not be an asset.
>
> I have added a floating GPS VHF-DSC handheld to the ditch bag to backup
> the installed one.
> They would be my first choice on Lake Ontario.
>
> Michael Brown
> Windburn
> C 30-1
>
>
> As a side comment to the SOS signals post, there are several dimensions to
> be considered. One is between what is needed according to regulations and
> what is really needed in a real life situation. We all know by now that the
> gap between regulations and reality is only increasing. You need to have a
> set of safety devices as required by the governing bodies but that doesn't
> me mean they will do anything for you in a life-threatening situation. The
> most publicized account of how useless most of the so called offshore
> safety devices are can be found in the Sydney Hobart Yacht Race tragedy of
> 1998. From jack-lines to tethers and lifejackets, to flares and even
> life-rafts, major flaws and failures were reported. This was an event where
> all major Australian SAR units off the east coast were in the air or
> waterborne to assist, imagine that you are thousands of miles offshore on
> your own, in need of help.
>
> In my opinion, we now should emply the best technology has to offer when
> it comes to communication. The purpose of a light or a flare is to
> communicate, to attract attention to our position, but it is an antiquated
> product which produces very limited results. Many ships will pass by and
> only pure luck will make them turn your way and offer help. The truth is
> these ships power through the night on autopilot, with their crews glancing
> on their AIS and radar screens once in a while, while the CPA and TCPA
> alarms are set for big targets. A simple VHF call with a position could
> save your life.
> For me personally, I always take into account 2 priorities, first personal
> survival, so I need water, food, first aid. Secondly, communication. A
> PLB/AIS device and a hand-held VHF are worth more than all the flares you
> can carry. If I were in northern waters I would choose a survival suit
> equipped with a PLB over a liferaft. In the tropics, a good hypalon dinghy
> will do, given that my EPIRB/PLB has been activated.
> We spend thousands of dollars on safety equipment that not only sits there
> idle and only needs to be replaced regularly, but it may even be useless in
> a real case scenario. I was once fined by a young and over-zealous Coast
> Guard officer for having a horse-shoe shaped lifebuoy instead of the
> ring-shaped one. I went to Canadian Tire and bought a plastic ring the
> following day, and passed by the Coast Guard to validate it. They said I
> was legal at that point. However, only our son could get his body inside
> the ring, none of us adults could have used it, but was perfectly legal.
> Just a few thoughts on safety onboard. Use satellite beacons, and keep
> your flares for the beach barbeque.
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
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Re: Stus-List SOS signals - LED light to replace flares?

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

Good points.

Unfortunately the advice I have received is that testing or practicing with 
expired flares is
illegal, at least in Canada. I could imagine in a sudden distress situation, 
particularly including
heavy wind and waves, that a crew member that has never fired or even loaded a 
shotgun
style flare gun might not be an asset.

I have added a floating GPS VHF-DSC handheld to the ditch bag to backup the 
installed one.
They would be my first choice on Lake Ontario.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


 
As a side comment to the SOS signals post, there are several dimensions to be 
considered. One is between what is needed according to regulations and what is 
really needed in a real life situation. We all know by now that the gap between 
regulations and reality is only increasing. You need to have a set of safety 
devices as required by the governing bodies but that doesn't me mean they will 
do anything for you in a life-threatening situation. The most publicized 
account of how useless most of the so called offshore safety devices are can be 
found in the Sydney Hobart Yacht Race tragedy of 1998. From jack-lines to 
tethers and lifejackets, to flares and even life-rafts, major flaws and 
failures were reported. This was an event where all major Australian SAR units 
off the east coast were in the air or waterborne to assist, imagine that you 
are thousands of miles offshore on your own, in need of help. 
 
In my opinion, we now should emply the best technology has to offer when it 
comes to communication. The purpose of a light or a flare is to communicate, to 
attract attention to our position, but it is an antiquated product which 
produces very limited results. Many ships will pass by and only pure luck will 
make them turn your way and offer help. The truth is these ships power through 
the night on autopilot, with their crews glancing on their AIS and radar 
screens once in a while, while the CPA and TCPA alarms are set for big targets. 
A simple VHF call with a position could save your life. 
For me personally, I always take into account 2 priorities, first personal 
survival, so I need water, food, first aid. Secondly, communication. A PLB/AIS 
device and a hand-held VHF are worth more than all the flares you can carry. If 
I were in northern waters I would choose a survival suit equipped with a PLB 
over a liferaft. In the tropics, a good hypalon dinghy will do, given that my 
EPIRB/PLB has been activated. 
We spend thousands of dollars on safety equipment that not only sits there idle 
and only needs to be replaced regularly, but it may even be useless in a real 
case scenario. I was once fined by a young and over-zealous Coast Guard officer 
for having a horse-shoe shaped lifebuoy instead of the ring-shaped one. I went 
to Canadian Tire and bought a plastic ring the following day, and passed by the 
Coast Guard to validate it. They said I was legal at that point. However, only 
our son could get his body inside the ring, none of us adults could have used 
it, but was perfectly legal. 
Just a few thoughts on safety onboard. Use satellite beacons, and keep your 
flares for the beach barbeque. 
 
 
Sent from my iPad 
 
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Re: Stus-List SOS signals - LED light to replace flares?

[Paul Wyand via CnC-List]

To me it is just another tool, I would not rely on it only. I do think the
idea of will Joe the plumber would know what SOS is, so I would want to
have both on board, then again I have at least 15 flairs on board. (many
expired, but still dry and sealed, so likely to be useful in an emergency.

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Dreuge via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> wrote:

> Here is a nice review of the  Sirius Signal SOS C-1001 LED at Panbo.
>
>
>
> http://www.panbo.com/archives/2015/09/one_led_flare_replaces_us_required_pyros_sirius_signal_but_not_ocean_signal.html
>
>
>
>
> -
> Paul E.
> 1981 C 38 Landfall
> S/V Johanna Rose
> Carrabelle, FL
>
> http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/
>
> On Jun 15, 2016, at 7:35 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
>
> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 22:11:53 -0500
> From: "Dennis C." <capt...@gmail.com>
> To: CnClist <CnC-List@cnc-list.com>
> Subject: Stus-List SOS signals - LED light to replace flares?
> Message-ID:
> <CANir+yuAeKtDyHJ_NYt81+Ea-LmLbPnM1-iRHR1-LoKfL=d...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Marinebeam says this light will replace pyrotechnic flares for a night
> signaling device.  Are they correct?  What would you use for a day signal?
>
> <
>
> https://store.marinebeam.com/led-flare-visual-distress-signal-never-buy-flares-again/
>
>
>
> Anybody have one of them?
> How would one convince a Coastie they are legal?
> What day
>
> Dennis
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

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Re: Stus-List SOS signals - LED light to replace flares?

[Dreuge via CnC-List]

Here is a nice review of the  Sirius Signal SOS C-1001 LED at Panbo.


http://www.panbo.com/archives/2015/09/one_led_flare_replaces_us_required_pyros_sirius_signal_but_not_ocean_signal.html




-
Paul E.
1981 C 38 Landfall 
S/V Johanna Rose
Carrabelle, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/

> On Jun 15, 2016, at 7:35 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> 
> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 22:11:53 -0500
> From: "Dennis C." <capt...@gmail.com <mailto:capt...@gmail.com>>
> To: CnClist <CnC-List@cnc-list.com <mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com>>
> Subject: Stus-List SOS signals - LED light to replace flares?
> Message-ID:
>   <CANir+yuAeKtDyHJ_NYt81+Ea-LmLbPnM1-iRHR1-LoKfL=d...@mail.gmail.com 
> <mailto:CANir+yuAeKtDyHJ_NYt81+Ea-LmLbPnM1-iRHR1-LoKfL=d...@mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Marinebeam says this light will replace pyrotechnic flares for a night
> signaling device.  Are they correct?  What would you use for a day signal?
> 
> <
> https://store.marinebeam.com/led-flare-visual-distress-signal-never-buy-flares-again/
>  
> <https://store.marinebeam.com/led-flare-visual-distress-signal-never-buy-flares-again/>
>> 
> 
> Anybody have one of them?
> How would one convince a Coastie they are legal?
> What day
> 
> Dennis

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Re: Stus-List SOS signals - LED light to replace flares?

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

H.  Some good points.

So we don't think Bubba Redneck would realize what a light flashing "Dit
Dit Dit Dah Dah Dah Dit Dit Dit" means?  I'd be better off buying a neon
beer sign.

I think I agree.  If I buy one, I'll keep my flares.

Anybody want to design a circuit that makes an anchor light flash SOS?

Dennis C.

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 7:52 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> The SOS flag IMHO would only work if you lit it on fire. I doubt *anyone*
> knows what they are. The LED flare thing would likely be OK if someone was
> already looking for you, but once again I doubt all that many people would
> notice it or know what it was.
> If you just need to meet a reg, the LED flare is a good idea.  If you want
> to actually get found, only SOLAS flares are worth having. A 12 gauge
> meteor flare is barely noticeable if you know where to look and know it is
> about to go off. A SOLAS flare lights up the sky bright enough to read by.
>
> Joe Della Barba
> DCSI
> 410-966-7255
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Nauset
> Beach via CnC-List
> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 07:46
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Nauset Beach
> Subject: Re: Stus-List SOS signals - LED light to replace flares?
>
> Active Captain had a sale through Defender for this light last Labor Day
> and I bought one so I know I am "legal" should some flares slip past the 36
> month expiration.  The June / July BoatUS Magazine has an article on
> signaling devices [flares / LED / lasers] and the LED received a below
> average grade.
>
> I agree with Jonathan that it is unlikely anyone would notice or know what
> it is and still keep a bag of flares on board, both USCG and SOLAS.
>
> Brian
>
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Indigo
> via CnC-List
> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 4:22 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Indigo <ind...@thethomsons.us>
> Subject: Re: Stus-List SOS signals - LED light to replace flares?
>
> Might be a "no brainier" financially, would you really want to rely on an
> orange flag to draw attention to yourself if in trouble during the day?
> While I know we'd all have vhf radios as well, I'd rather have flares -
> and even at night  I doubt if many bozo's on the water would even know what
> a flashing ... ---... would even mean!!
>
> --
> Jonathan
> Indigo C 35III
> SOUTHPORT CT
>
> > On Jun 15, 2016, at 00:16, Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List
> <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
> >
> > An orange distress flag for daytime (which is included) and you meet
> > the
> regs
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
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Re: Stus-List SOS signals - LED light to replace flares?

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

The SOS flag IMHO would only work if you lit it on fire. I doubt *anyone* knows 
what they are. The LED flare thing would likely be OK if someone was already 
looking for you, but once again I doubt all that many people would notice it or 
know what it was.
If you just need to meet a reg, the LED flare is a good idea.  If you want to 
actually get found, only SOLAS flares are worth having. A 12 gauge meteor flare 
is barely noticeable if you know where to look and know it is about to go off. 
A SOLAS flare lights up the sky bright enough to read by.

Joe Della Barba
DCSI
410-966-7255



-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Nauset Beach 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 07:46
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Nauset Beach
Subject: Re: Stus-List SOS signals - LED light to replace flares?

Active Captain had a sale through Defender for this light last Labor Day and I 
bought one so I know I am "legal" should some flares slip past the 36 month 
expiration.  The June / July BoatUS Magazine has an article on signaling 
devices [flares / LED / lasers] and the LED received a below average grade.  

I agree with Jonathan that it is unlikely anyone would notice or know what it 
is and still keep a bag of flares on board, both USCG and SOLAS.  

Brian

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Indigo via 
CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 4:22 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Indigo <ind...@thethomsons.us>
Subject: Re: Stus-List SOS signals - LED light to replace flares?

Might be a "no brainier" financially, would you really want to rely on an 
orange flag to draw attention to yourself if in trouble during the day?
While I know we'd all have vhf radios as well, I'd rather have flares - and 
even at night  I doubt if many bozo's on the water would even know what a 
flashing ... ---... would even mean!! 

--
Jonathan
Indigo C 35III
SOUTHPORT CT

> On Jun 15, 2016, at 00:16, Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
> 
> An orange distress flag for daytime (which is included) and you meet 
> the
regs


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___

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Re: Stus-List SOS signals - LED light to replace flares?

[Nauset Beach via CnC-List]

Active Captain had a sale through Defender for this light last Labor Day and
I bought one so I know I am "legal" should some flares slip past the 36
month expiration.  The June / July BoatUS Magazine has an article on
signaling devices [flares / LED / lasers] and the LED received a below
average grade.  

I agree with Jonathan that it is unlikely anyone would notice or know what
it is and still keep a bag of flares on board, both USCG and SOLAS.  

Brian

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Indigo
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 4:22 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Indigo <ind...@thethomsons.us>
Subject: Re: Stus-List SOS signals - LED light to replace flares?

Might be a "no brainier" financially, would you really want to rely on an
orange flag to draw attention to yourself if in trouble during the day?
While I know we'd all have vhf radios as well, I'd rather have flares - and
even at night  I doubt if many bozo's on the water would even know what a
flashing ... ---... would even mean!! 

--
Jonathan
Indigo C 35III
SOUTHPORT CT

> On Jun 15, 2016, at 00:16, Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
> 
> An orange distress flag for daytime (which is included) and you meet the
regs


___

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are greatly appreciated!



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Re: Stus-List SOS signals - LED light to replace flares?

[Indigo via CnC-List]

Might be a "no brainier" financially, would you really want to rely on an 
orange flag to draw attention to yourself if in trouble during the day? While I 
know we'd all have vhf radios as well, I'd rather have flares - and even at 
night  I doubt if many bozo's on the water would even know what a flashing ... 
---... would even mean!! 

--
Jonathan
Indigo C 35III
SOUTHPORT CT

> On Jun 15, 2016, at 00:16, Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> An orange distress flag for daytime (which is included) and you meet the regs


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Re: Stus-List SOS signals - LED light to replace flares?

[S Thomas via CnC-List]

"Battery operated (3 C-cell) with simple twist-on operation"

I don't see where it says that the batteries can't be replaced. 

Too bad they don't have Canadian coast guard approval. 

Steve Thomas
C MKIII
Port Stanley, ON
 
- Original Message - 
  From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
  To: C List 
  Cc: Josh Muckley 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 00:23
  Subject: Re: Stus-List SOS signals - LED light to replace flares?


  Kevin is right.  I get a UPV inspection from the USCG evey year and the 
inspector suggested I get one.  I don't like the fact that the batteries can't 
be replaced.

  Josh Muckley 
  S/V Sea Hawk
  1989 C 37+
  Solomons, MD


  On Jun 14, 2016 11:12 PM, "Dennis C. via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
wrote:

Marinebeam says this light will replace pyrotechnic flares for a night 
signaling device.  Are they correct?  What would you use for a day signal?


<https://store.marinebeam.com/led-flare-visual-distress-signal-never-buy-flares-again/>


Anybody have one of them?

How would one convince a Coastie they are legal?

What day 



Dennis


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Contributions are greatly appreciated!




--


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Re: Stus-List SOS signals - LED light to replace flares?

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Kevin is right.  I get a UPV inspection from the USCG evey year and the
inspector suggested I get one.  I don't like the fact that the batteries
can't be replaced.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Jun 14, 2016 11:12 PM, "Dennis C. via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Marinebeam says this light will replace pyrotechnic flares for a night
> signaling device.  Are they correct?  What would you use for a day signal?
>
> <
> https://store.marinebeam.com/led-flare-visual-distress-signal-never-buy-flares-again/
> >
>
> Anybody have one of them?
> How would one convince a Coastie they are legal?
> What day
>
> Dennis
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
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Re: Stus-List SOS signals - LED light to replace flares?

[Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List]

USCG approved for night. An orange distress flag for daytime (which is
included) and you meet the regs. Weems and Plath is selling the same exact
one for same price. No brainer it seems to me. When my flares expire in
September I will probably get one

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016, 8:12 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Marinebeam says this light will replace pyrotechnic flares for a night
> signaling device.  Are they correct?  What would you use for a day signal?
>
> <
> https://store.marinebeam.com/led-flare-visual-distress-signal-never-buy-flares-again/
> >
>
> Anybody have one of them?
> How would one convince a Coastie they are legal?
> What day
>
> Dennis
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
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Stus-List SOS signals - LED light to replace flares?

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Marinebeam says this light will replace pyrotechnic flares for a night
signaling device.  Are they correct?  What would you use for a day signal?

<
https://store.marinebeam.com/led-flare-visual-distress-signal-never-buy-flares-again/
>

Anybody have one of them?
How would one convince a Coastie they are legal?
What day

Dennis
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