Stus-List Standing rigging replacement

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

What I have run into with looking at boats is that rod that age will NOT pass 
any rigging inspection just because of the age, no matter how nice it looks. 
Also judging from the ads I would guess about 5% or less of the rod rigged 
boats for sale have rigging that would pass, it seems to stay up until it 
breaks.

Joe
Coquina

From: Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2021 10:39 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: cenel...@aol.com
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Standing rigging replacement

Hey everyone--especially those on this list whose boats are approaching 'old 
age!'

My 1995 C&C 36 XL/kcb is now 26 years old and has been in brackish water for 
her entire life--which has been either at the dock or club racing in the NC 
sounds where the air is mostly light and the heat is often oppressive. I am 
faced with a decision on what, if anything, to do about her standing rigging, 
which is all original rod except for the forestay which was replaced with wire 
when I snapped the rod during a racing adventure--the headsail was furled at 
the time so the rig did not come down!

A local, seemingly knowledgeable rigger, has recommend that all the standing 
rigging be replaced after he did a rig inspection a few weeks ago. (He aborted 
an attempt at tuning the rig when he realized that the threads on one of the 
turn-buckles were disintegrating during his adjustments.) The cost to replace 
with rod per his estimate is ~ $7500 plus some yard fees to un-step and re-step 
the mast so I am looking at about $8k for the job, without replacing some mast 
hardware (Tides track, steaming light, radio cable and antenna, etc.) while the 
mast is down.

I realize that after 26 years, the rigging might need attention, that is why I 
had him do the inspection. OTOH, I also understand that it is in his own 
self-interest to replace the rig. The rod will be done in Rhode Island but he 
will be doing all the other stuff. The old joke '...if the only tool you have 
is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail..' comes to mind. I am also a firm 
believer in the saying 'tools not rules...' so I am reluctant to just 
replace something because of a 'recommendation' based on what often is more 
tradition than fact.

Since many on the list have boats even older than mine, I am curious what the 
list has to say about rod rigging replacement versus age, intended use and 
cruising/racing waters involved. Of course I'd prefer the rig not come down 
around my ears, even in the NC sounds, but I have no plans to take her 
off-shore, except for possible short hops to deliver her to racing venues 
(CRW). OTOH, the boat bucks involved are probably about 20% of the boat's 
current value which I will unlikely recover when I sell her, new rigging or not.

Thanks in advance,

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
1995 C&C 36 XL/kcb




Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Standing rigging replacement

[Charlie Nelson via CnC-List]

Hey everyone--especially those on this list whose boats are approaching 'old 
age!'
My 1995 C&C 36 XL/kcb is now 26 years old and has been in brackish water for 
her entire life--which has been either at the dock or club racing in the NC 
sounds where the air is mostly light and the heat is often oppressive. I am 
faced with a decision on what, if anything, to do about her standing rigging, 
which is all original rod except for the forestay which was replaced with wire 
when I snapped the rod during a racing adventure--the headsail was furled at 
the time so the rig did not come down!
A local, seemingly knowledgeable rigger, has recommend that all the standing 
rigging be replaced after he did a rig inspection a few weeks ago. (He aborted 
an attempt at tuning the rig when he realized that the threads on one of the 
turn-buckles were disintegrating during his adjustments.) The cost to replace 
with rod per his estimate is ~ $7500 plus some yard fees to un-step and re-step 
the mast so I am looking at about $8k for the job, without replacing some mast 
hardware (Tides track, steaming light, radio cable and antenna, etc.) while the 
mast is down.
I realize that after 26 years, the rigging might need attention, that is why I 
had him do the inspection. OTOH, I also understand that it is in his own 
self-interest to replace the rig. The rod will be done in Rhode Island but he 
will be doing all the other stuff. The old joke '...if the only tool you have 
is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail..' comes to mind. I am also a firm 
believer in the saying 'tools not rules...' so I am reluctant to just 
replace something because of a 'recommendation' based on what often is more 
tradition than fact. 
Since many on the list have boats even older than mine, I am curious what the 
list has to say about rod rigging replacement versus age, intended use and 
cruising/racing waters involved. Of course I'd prefer the rig not come down 
around my ears, even in the NC sounds, but I have no plans to take her 
off-shore, except for possible short hops to deliver her to racing venues 
(CRW). OTOH, the boat bucks involved are probably about 20% of the boat's 
current value which I will unlikely recover when I sell her, new rigging or not.
Thanks in advance,
Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C&C 36 XL/kcb



Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Re: Stus-List Standing rigging replacement on 35-2

[Shawn Wright via CnC-List]

If we end up pulling the mast, I'll definitely measure it all, and inspect
everything up top (and I'm sure there will be more questions...) The
terminals and wire at the deck look good. I can't imagine them being
original, but the owner from 1985-2016 couldn't be certain if he'd done all
the shrouds; the fore and aft were probably done in 2003 when the refit
done and second furler was added.

Thanks

On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 5:45 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Call riggingonly.com.  See what they will do for you.  With the rig down,
> you can measure everything and have them duplicate it.  You cn also ship it
> to them for duplication.
>
> Dennis C.
>
> On Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 10:00 AM Shawn Wright via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> The 35-2 we are about to purchase has standing rigging of unknown age,
>> although it appears to be solid. There is a fellow at the club where the
>> boat is currently located who does rigging, and is going to give me a
>> quote. As the boat is already being hauled and put on the hard for 2 weeks,
>> and the club has a mast crane, it seems like a good opportunity to get it
>> done, and also any work on the mast, check the keel bolt under the mast,
>> etc. The boat has dual forestays with furlers, single backstay with
>> hydraulic tensioner, and standard upper, fore & aft lower shrouds. Just
>> interested in what a ballpark cost should be, and how this would compare to
>> me ordering the wire are terminals and doing it myself.
>>
>> Also, the boat has 7 through hulls, all marelon which appear to be in
>> good condition, but some are a bit stiff. I'm assuming this is due to
>> growth inside and lack of exercise (current owner leaves them open it
>> seems). What is the recommended maintenance for these during a haulout?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> --
>> Shawn Wright
>> shawngwri...@gmail.com
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>

-- 
Shawn Wright
shawngwri...@gmail.com
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Standing rigging replacement on 35-2

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Rod fails catastrophically, 1x19 shows signs.  Rust stains are the
terminals a d broken strands.  Inspect... You'll probably be fine.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD




On Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 5:47 PM Shawn Wright via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I forgot to mention the stays are 1/19 SS, not rod.
>
> For NDT testing, are you referring to dye penetrant or ultrasonic testing?
> Dye penetrant I could do myself I suppose; ultrasonic sounds expensive...
>
> As we're only coastal cruising for now, I'm inclined to leave the rigging
> unless I can be assured this fellow will do a good job. Since we need to
> replace the windex and mast lighting, it just seemed to make sense if the
> mast is coming out. But maybe it's best to leave it, and wait until we
> decide to go offshore, since we're not even certain we will do so in this
> boat. I'll have lots of other things to do during the haulout so no need to
> rush it.
>
> Thanks!
>
> On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 12:57 PM Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> I had my entire mast rebuilt from the ground up.  ~$20k.  Plan on about
>> $1000 per rod stay.  You can do dyform for about $200 less and regular
>> 1x19 for about $200 less than dyform.
>>
>> I don't think Marlon is capable of being disassembled.  I lube mine with
>> the same grease that I use on the max prop once a year - 130AA.  They
>> recommend petroleum jelly.
>>
>> Josh Muckley
>> S/V Sea Hawk
>> 1989 C&C 37+
>> Solomons, MD
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 8:00 AM Shawn Wright via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> The 35-2 we are about to purchase has standing rigging of unknown age,
>>> although it appears to be solid. There is a fellow at the club where the
>>> boat is currently located who does rigging, and is going to give me a
>>> quote. As the boat is already being hauled and put on the hard for 2 weeks,
>>> and the club has a mast crane, it seems like a good opportunity to get it
>>> done, and also any work on the mast, check the keel bolt under the mast,
>>> etc. The boat has dual forestays with furlers, single backstay with
>>> hydraulic tensioner, and standard upper, fore & aft lower shrouds. Just
>>> interested in what a ballpark cost should be, and how this would compare to
>>> me ordering the wire are terminals and doing it myself.
>>>
>>> Also, the boat has 7 through hulls, all marelon which appear to be in
>>> good condition, but some are a bit stiff. I'm assuming this is due to
>>> growth inside and lack of exercise (current owner leaves them open it
>>> seems). What is the recommended maintenance for these during a haulout?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> --
>>> Shawn Wright
>>> shawngwri...@gmail.com
>>> ___
>>>
>>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>>
>>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>>
>
> --
> Shawn Wright
> shawngwri...@gmail.com
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurra
> 
>
>
On Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 5:47 PM Shawn Wright via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I forgot to mention the stays are 1/19 SS, not rod.
>
> For NDT testing, are you referring to dye penetrant or ultrasonic testing?
> Dye penetrant I could do myself I suppose; ultrasonic sounds expensive...
>
> As we're only coastal cruising for now, I'm inclined to leave the rigging
> unless I can be assured this fellow will do a good job. Since we need to
> replace the windex and mast lighting, it just seemed to make sense if the
> mast is coming out. But maybe it's best to leave it, and wait until we
> decide to go offshore, since we're not even certain we will do so in this
> boat. I'll have lots of other things to do during the haulout so no need to
> rush it.
>
> Thanks!
>
> On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 12:57 PM Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> I had my entire mast rebuilt from the ground up.  ~$20k.  Plan on about
>> $1000 per rod stay.  You can do dyform for about $200 less and regular
>> 1x19 for about $200 less than dyform.
>>
>> I don't think Marlon is capable of being disassembled.  I lube mine with
>> the same grease that I use on the max prop once a year - 130AA.  They
>> recommend petroleum jelly.
>>
>> Josh Muckley
>> S/V Sea Hawk
>> 1989 C&C 37+
>> Solomons, MD
>>
>> On 

Re: Stus-List Standing rigging replacement on 35-2

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Call riggingonly.com.  See what they will do for you.  With the rig down,
you can measure everything and have them duplicate it.  You cn also ship it
to them for duplication.

Dennis C.

On Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 10:00 AM Shawn Wright via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> The 35-2 we are about to purchase has standing rigging of unknown age,
> although it appears to be solid. There is a fellow at the club where the
> boat is currently located who does rigging, and is going to give me a
> quote. As the boat is already being hauled and put on the hard for 2 weeks,
> and the club has a mast crane, it seems like a good opportunity to get it
> done, and also any work on the mast, check the keel bolt under the mast,
> etc. The boat has dual forestays with furlers, single backstay with
> hydraulic tensioner, and standard upper, fore & aft lower shrouds. Just
> interested in what a ballpark cost should be, and how this would compare to
> me ordering the wire are terminals and doing it myself.
>
> Also, the boat has 7 through hulls, all marelon which appear to be in
> good condition, but some are a bit stiff. I'm assuming this is due to
> growth inside and lack of exercise (current owner leaves them open it
> seems). What is the recommended maintenance for these during a haulout?
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Shawn Wright
> shawngwri...@gmail.com
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Standing rigging replacement on 35-2

[Shawn Wright via CnC-List]

I forgot to mention the stays are 1/19 SS, not rod.

For NDT testing, are you referring to dye penetrant or ultrasonic testing?
Dye penetrant I could do myself I suppose; ultrasonic sounds expensive...

As we're only coastal cruising for now, I'm inclined to leave the rigging
unless I can be assured this fellow will do a good job. Since we need to
replace the windex and mast lighting, it just seemed to make sense if the
mast is coming out. But maybe it's best to leave it, and wait until we
decide to go offshore, since we're not even certain we will do so in this
boat. I'll have lots of other things to do during the haulout so no need to
rush it.

Thanks!

On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 12:57 PM Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I had my entire mast rebuilt from the ground up.  ~$20k.  Plan on about
> $1000 per rod stay.  You can do dyform for about $200 less and regular
> 1x19 for about $200 less than dyform.
>
> I don't think Marlon is capable of being disassembled.  I lube mine with
> the same grease that I use on the max prop once a year - 130AA.  They
> recommend petroleum jelly.
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
> On Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 8:00 AM Shawn Wright via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> The 35-2 we are about to purchase has standing rigging of unknown age,
>> although it appears to be solid. There is a fellow at the club where the
>> boat is currently located who does rigging, and is going to give me a
>> quote. As the boat is already being hauled and put on the hard for 2 weeks,
>> and the club has a mast crane, it seems like a good opportunity to get it
>> done, and also any work on the mast, check the keel bolt under the mast,
>> etc. The boat has dual forestays with furlers, single backstay with
>> hydraulic tensioner, and standard upper, fore & aft lower shrouds. Just
>> interested in what a ballpark cost should be, and how this would compare to
>> me ordering the wire are terminals and doing it myself.
>>
>> Also, the boat has 7 through hulls, all marelon which appear to be in
>> good condition, but some are a bit stiff. I'm assuming this is due to
>> growth inside and lack of exercise (current owner leaves them open it
>> seems). What is the recommended maintenance for these during a haulout?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> --
>> Shawn Wright
>> shawngwri...@gmail.com
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>

-- 
Shawn Wright
shawngwri...@gmail.com
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Standing rigging replacement on 35-2

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

I had my entire mast rebuilt from the ground up.  ~$20k.  Plan on about
$1000 per rod stay.  You can do dyform for about $200 less and regular 1x19
for about $200 less than dyform.

I don't think Marlon is capable of being disassembled.  I lube mine with
the same grease that I use on the max prop once a year - 130AA.  They
recommend petroleum jelly.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 8:00 AM Shawn Wright via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> The 35-2 we are about to purchase has standing rigging of unknown age,
> although it appears to be solid. There is a fellow at the club where the
> boat is currently located who does rigging, and is going to give me a
> quote. As the boat is already being hauled and put on the hard for 2 weeks,
> and the club has a mast crane, it seems like a good opportunity to get it
> done, and also any work on the mast, check the keel bolt under the mast,
> etc. The boat has dual forestays with furlers, single backstay with
> hydraulic tensioner, and standard upper, fore & aft lower shrouds. Just
> interested in what a ballpark cost should be, and how this would compare to
> me ordering the wire are terminals and doing it myself.
>
> Also, the boat has 7 through hulls, all marelon which appear to be in
> good condition, but some are a bit stiff. I'm assuming this is due to
> growth inside and lack of exercise (current owner leaves them open it
> seems). What is the recommended maintenance for these during a haulout?
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Shawn Wright
> shawngwri...@gmail.com
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Standing rigging replacement on 35-2

[svrebeccaleah via CnC-List]

Shawn, I replaced my 30 yr old rigging last summer only because I plan on doing 
extended off shore cruising. Had I not been planning this I would not have done 
so, as the cost was that of a new car. I did have to replace 1 roller furler, 
goose neck, and did a couple of up grades. If your worried about the rigging 
have the swages NDT inspected. If no cracks I say keep using it. FWIW. Doug 
Mountjoy Sv Rebecca Leah LF39Port Orchard YC wa.
 Original message From: Shawn Wright via CnC-List 
 Date: 4/22/19  07:59  (GMT-08:00) To: 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Shawn Wright  Subject: 
Stus-List Standing rigging replacement on 35-2 Hello all,The 35-2 we are about 
to purchase has standing rigging of unknown age, although it appears to be 
solid. There is a fellow at the club where the boat is currently located who 
does rigging, and is going to give me a quote. As the boat is already being 
hauled and put on the hard for 2 weeks, and the club has a mast crane, it seems 
like a good opportunity to get it done, and also any work on the mast, check 
the keel bolt under the mast, etc. The boat has dual forestays with furlers, 
single backstay with hydraulic tensioner, and standard upper, fore & aft lower 
shrouds. Just interested in what a ballpark cost should be, and how this would 
compare to me ordering the wire are terminals and doing it myself.Also, the 
boat has 7 through hulls, all marelon which appear to be in good condition, but 
some are a bit stiff. I'm assuming this is due to growth inside and lack of 
exercise (current owner leaves them open it seems). What is the recommended 
maintenance for these during a haulout?Thanks!-- Shawn 
wrightshawngwri...@gmail.com
___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List Standing rigging replacement on 35-2

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

Check Forespar's site for advice on lubricating Marelon seacocks.

You probably know not to do any maintenance work before getting approval from 
seller.

Last thought. My boat has Marelon seacocks and I leave them closed whenever I'm 
not on the boat. When I am aboard, I open only the ones in use; the sink drain, 
air conditioner intake, and engine intake and only if I use those. I close them 
before leaving the boat. It's good practice that not only protects the boat 
from a hose failure but also reminds me how to access all the valves. Over 
time, it becomes a habit that is easy to repeat.


> On April 22, 2019 at 10:59 AM Shawn Wright via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> The 35-2 we are about to purchase has standing rigging of unknown age, 
> although it appears to be solid. There is a fellow at the club where the boat 
> is currently located who does rigging, and is going to give me a quote. As 
> the boat is already being hauled and put on the hard for 2 weeks, and the 
> club has a mast crane, it seems like a good opportunity to get it done, and 
> also any work on the mast, check the keel bolt under the mast, etc. The boat 
> has dual forestays with furlers, single backstay with hydraulic tensioner, 
> and standard upper, fore & aft lower shrouds. Just interested in what a 
> ballpark cost should be, and how this would compare to me ordering the wire 
> are terminals and doing it myself.
> 
> Also, the boat has 7 through hulls, all marelon which appear to be in 
> good condition, but some are a bit stiff. I'm assuming this is due to growth 
> inside and lack of exercise (current owner leaves them open it seems). What 
> is the recommended maintenance for these during a haulout?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> --
> Shawn Wright
> shawngwri...@gmail.com mailto:shawngwri...@gmail.com
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each 
> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> 
 
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Standing rigging replacement on 35-2

[ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List]

Take the through hulls apart, and clean them up. I just did that with one
of mine. Some people use a lubricant on them - mineral oil, teflon
lubricant, but I don't.

On my boat, I'd be more confident using the original rigging, than making
new rigging myself. Since it's easy enough for you to take the mast down,
why not have a rigger inspect the rigging, and he can advise you whether to
replace the rigging or not.

Alan Bergen
35 Mk III Thirsty
Rose City YC
Portland, OR

On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 8:00 AM Shawn Wright via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> The 35-2 we are about to purchase has standing rigging of unknown age,
> although it appears to be solid. There is a fellow at the club where the
> boat is currently located who does rigging, and is going to give me a
> quote. As the boat is already being hauled and put on the hard for 2 weeks,
> and the club has a mast crane, it seems like a good opportunity to get it
> done, and also any work on the mast, check the keel bolt under the mast,
> etc. The boat has dual forestays with furlers, single backstay with
> hydraulic tensioner, and standard upper, fore & aft lower shrouds. Just
> interested in what a ballpark cost should be, and how this would compare to
> me ordering the wire are terminals and doing it myself.
>
> Also, the boat has 7 through hulls, all marelon which appear to be in
> good condition, but some are a bit stiff. I'm assuming this is due to
> growth inside and lack of exercise (current owner leaves them open it
> seems). What is the recommended maintenance for these during a haulout?
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Shawn Wright
> shawngwri...@gmail.com
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.paypal.me_stumurray&d=DwICAg&c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=9w3G7Cf8YfQnrjmtuNxwDJYr3JMv9f1pAfgAJ9xXYQQ&m=7dI3myi9AruE8MA3fIDYwu6VcDfL-7cvCL5boou-5RM&s=jT_omUztpk89oG5HE8R1LgjKSkFparjNfsvw_HmsMCw&e=
>
>
___

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Stus-List Standing rigging replacement on 35-2

[Shawn Wright via CnC-List]

Hello all,

The 35-2 we are about to purchase has standing rigging of unknown age,
although it appears to be solid. There is a fellow at the club where the
boat is currently located who does rigging, and is going to give me a
quote. As the boat is already being hauled and put on the hard for 2 weeks,
and the club has a mast crane, it seems like a good opportunity to get it
done, and also any work on the mast, check the keel bolt under the mast,
etc. The boat has dual forestays with furlers, single backstay with
hydraulic tensioner, and standard upper, fore & aft lower shrouds. Just
interested in what a ballpark cost should be, and how this would compare to
me ordering the wire are terminals and doing it myself.

Also, the boat has 7 through hulls, all marelon which appear to be in
good condition, but some are a bit stiff. I'm assuming this is due to
growth inside and lack of exercise (current owner leaves them open it
seems). What is the recommended maintenance for these during a haulout?

Thanks!

-- 
Shawn Wright
shawngwri...@gmail.com
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Re: Stus-List Standing rigging replacement

[Bill Bina via CnC-List]

  
  
You can debate this all you want, but
  they are unsafe for standing rigging. The manufacturer agrees.
  They do not work the same as Sta-lok and Norseman. 
  
  From the Quick attach instructions:
  Quick Attach™ Installation
  Instructions & Information
  LINKS:
Quick Attach™ Installation Instructions (PDF)
Quick Attach™ Installation Instructions (Video)
  Why would you want to use mechanical swage fittings?
  Quick Attach™ fittings are precision machined from grade 316
stainless steel and Lloyds approved under #97/00200 for holding
power of at least 90% of the maximum breakload of the wire rope
used.  
  Special attention has been placed on the strength of the
terminals, which usually results in the wire breaking before the
fitting gets distorted. 
  The advantage of Quick Attach™ fittings over conventional
fittings is the arrangement of the wedges on the outside of the
cable.  This makes assembly much easier and allows different
types of wire to    be used with the
same fitting.
  Quick Attach™ fittings are ideal for repair of rigging without
swaging and for many other industrial or architectural uses
where the exact length of the cable cannot be determined
beforehand or where assembly needs to take place on-site.
  Quick Attach Fittings are are not recommended for "permanent"
  standing rigging on boats over 19 feet or boats using wire
  over 3/16" diameter. 
  
  Bill Bina
  
  On 10/24/2014 9:40 PM, Rick Brass wrote:


  The spec sheet for the Suncor toggles says the working load limit of the assembly is limited by the working load limit if the wire you are using. IIRC, that is basically the same statement made for the Sta-lok and Norseman fittings I've used in the rigging of my 25 and my 38.

Rick Brass




  


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Re: Stus-List Standing rigging replacement

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

The spec sheet for the Suncor toggles says the working load limit of the 
assembly is limited by the working load limit if the wire you are using. IIRC, 
that is basically the same statement made for the Sta-lok and Norseman fittings 
I've used in the rigging of my 25 and my 38.

Rick Brass

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 23, 2014, at 20:25, Bill Bina via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Having used Suncor for my lifelines where they worked well, I would not 
> consider them as safe for standing rigging. They are very easy to work with, 
> but they are not nearly as secure as sta-lok fittings. I don't think Suncor 
> intends or markets them for high tension shrouds and stays.
> 
> Bill Bina
> 
>> On 10/23/2014 7:47 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List wrote:
>> 
>> Not a C&C but I did the standing rigging on my MacGregor 26C.  I used Suncor 
>> fittings.  Worked great.
>> 
>> http://www.suncorstainless.com/quick-attachtrade
>> 
>> Josh Muckley
>> S/ V Sea Hawk
>> 1989 C&C 37+
>> 
>> S/V Lasie
>> 1990 MacGregor 26C
>> 
>> Solomons, MD
> 
> 
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Re: Stus-List Standing rigging replacement

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

I have user Sobstad in Barrie for standing rigging and swagged lifelines. The 
work is done
at Transat Marine which is also in Barrie.

http://www.transatmarine.com/main/homepage.html

You can contact Richard Osborne as Sobstad - sobs...@bellnet.ca

Transat was originally owned by John Osborne, Richards Father, who still works 
there. John is an
Olympic competitor, won gold in 1976 in the Tornado class. I have dealt with 
them for years and
have been pleased by the service and pricing.

If you are not in Ontario the shipping may be a major factor.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C&C 30-1

Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 13:32:28 -0600 
From: David Donnelly  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Stus-List Standing rigging replacement 
Message-ID:  
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 
 
I was thinking of replacing my standing rigging on my 26. I am thinking I can 
put it in a box and ship it to wherever so they can duplicate what I have now. 
I haven't really noticed anything wrong with it other than the threaded end for 
the turnbuckle on one of my lowers is bent slightly. I am sure everything is 
original 1977 so it may be a good idea to replace it. I would prefer to not 
involve cross border if possible but wouldn't rule it out. Does anyone want to 
recommend someone in Canada. Or USA if price is right. 
 
David 
C&C 26 Mistress 
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Re: Stus-List Standing rigging replacement- quick-attach fittings

[Bill Bina - gmail via CnC-List]

Swaged fittings are not comparable to these fittings. A swaged fitting 
has a huge amount of surface area contact between fitting and wire 
compared to the quick-attach. There is even a known reliability 
difference between machine swaged and hand swaged that strongly favors 
machine swaged.


I tightened the cones plenty. In fact, over tightening may have been 
part of the issue.There is a reason why Suncor only markets these for 
lifelines and other relatively light duty applications. I'm obviously 
not the only one who experienced problems. Ignore the manufacturers 
advice at your own peril. As I said, I've seen the problem first hand.


Ask Brion Toss if you need another opinion! :-)

Bill Bina


On 10/24/2014 7:30 AM, Josh Muckley wrote:


Bill,

Swaged fittings don't spread the wires to distribute the load either.  
It sounds like maybe you didn't tighten the cones enough.  I did some 
destructive testing and had to physically beat the fitting apart to 
get the wedges separated from the cone.


Josh

On Oct 24, 2014 6:22 AM, "Bill Bina via CnC-List" 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


I can tell you why. The quick-attach can SLIP far too easily.
Happened on my Babystay when I cranked the backstay. When I let
off the backstay, the previously firmly tightened babystay was
flopping around. The wire goes straight into the fitting with no
bends or "spread out" of the strands like the sta-lok. What makes
them so easy to use, also makes them prone to letting the cable
move, or even pull out.

Bill Bina


On 10/23/2014 11:02 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List wrote:


I looked it up, the quick attach fittings are no longer
advised for standing rigging though I can't understand why.
And I was wrong they won't work with rod but WILL work with
all other types of wire.

Josh



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Re: Stus-List Standing rigging replacement- quick-attach fittings

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Bill,

Swaged fittings don't spread the wires to distribute the load either.  It
sounds like maybe you didn't tighten the cones enough.  I did some
destructive testing and had to physically beat the fitting apart to get the
wedges separated from the cone.

Josh
On Oct 24, 2014 6:22 AM, "Bill Bina via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> I can tell you why. The quick-attach can SLIP far too easily. Happened on
> my Babystay when I cranked the backstay. When I let off the backstay, the
> previously firmly tightened babystay was flopping around. The wire goes
> straight into the fitting with no bends or "spread out" of the strands like
> the sta-lok. What makes them so easy to use, also makes them prone to
> letting the cable move, or even pull out.
>
> Bill Bina
>
>
> On 10/23/2014 11:02 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List wrote:
>
>>
>> I looked it up, the quick attach fittings are no longer advised for
>> standing rigging though I can't understand why.  And I was wrong they won't
>> work with rod but WILL work with all other types of wire.
>>
>> Josh
>>
>>
>
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Re: Stus-List Standing rigging replacement- quick-attach fittings

[Bill Bina via CnC-List]

I can tell you why. The quick-attach can SLIP far too easily. Happened 
on my Babystay when I cranked the backstay. When I let off the backstay, 
the previously firmly tightened babystay was flopping around. The wire 
goes straight into the fitting with no bends or "spread out" of the 
strands like the sta-lok. What makes them so easy to use, also makes 
them prone to letting the cable move, or even pull out.


Bill Bina


On 10/23/2014 11:02 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List wrote:


I looked it up, the quick attach fittings are no longer advised for 
standing rigging though I can't understand why.  And I was wrong they 
won't work with rod but WILL work with all other types of wire.


Josh




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Re: Stus-List Standing rigging replacement

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

I looked it up, the quick attach fittings are no longer advised for
standing rigging though I can't understand why.  And I was wrong they won't
work with rod but WILL work with all other types of wire.

Josh
On Oct 23, 2014 9:23 PM, "Josh Muckley"  wrote:

> At the time I used them they were marketed as competition to stay-lock.
> If I remember correctly they were guaranteed to between 90 and 100% of the
> wire rope break strength.  I up sized all the wire and pin fittings.  IIRC
> Break strength of 5000, SWL up to 3500.  Tensioned to #1100.
>
> IIRC the fittings also work with dyform or rod.
>
> Josh
> On Oct 23, 2014 8:26 PM, "Bill Bina via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
>
>> Having used Suncor for my lifelines where they worked well, I would not
>> consider them as safe for standing rigging. They are very easy to work
>> with, but they are not nearly as secure as sta-lok fittings. I don't think
>> Suncor intends or markets them for high tension shrouds and stays.
>>
>> Bill Bina
>>
>> On 10/23/2014 7:47 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Not a C&C but I did the standing rigging on my MacGregor 26C.  I used
>>> Suncor fittings.  Worked great.
>>>
>>> http://www.suncorstainless.com/quick-attachtrade
>>>
>>> Josh Muckley
>>> S/ V Sea Hawk
>>> 1989 C&C 37+
>>>
>>> S/V Lasie
>>> 1990 MacGregor 26C
>>>
>>> Solomons, MD
>>>
>>>
>>
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>>
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Re: Stus-List Standing rigging replacement

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

At the time I used them they were marketed as competition to stay-lock.  If
I remember correctly they were guaranteed to between 90 and 100% of the
wire rope break strength.  I up sized all the wire and pin fittings.  IIRC
Break strength of 5000, SWL up to 3500.  Tensioned to #1100.

IIRC the fittings also work with dyform or rod.

Josh
On Oct 23, 2014 8:26 PM, "Bill Bina via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Having used Suncor for my lifelines where they worked well, I would not
> consider them as safe for standing rigging. They are very easy to work
> with, but they are not nearly as secure as sta-lok fittings. I don't think
> Suncor intends or markets them for high tension shrouds and stays.
>
> Bill Bina
>
> On 10/23/2014 7:47 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List wrote:
>
>>
>> Not a C&C but I did the standing rigging on my MacGregor 26C.  I used
>> Suncor fittings.  Worked great.
>>
>> http://www.suncorstainless.com/quick-attachtrade
>>
>> Josh Muckley
>> S/ V Sea Hawk
>> 1989 C&C 37+
>>
>> S/V Lasie
>> 1990 MacGregor 26C
>>
>> Solomons, MD
>>
>>
>
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Re: Stus-List Standing rigging replacement

[Bill Bina via CnC-List]

Having used Suncor for my lifelines where they worked well, I would not 
consider them as safe for standing rigging. They are very easy to work 
with, but they are not nearly as secure as sta-lok fittings. I don't 
think Suncor intends or markets them for high tension shrouds and stays.


Bill Bina

On 10/23/2014 7:47 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List wrote:


Not a C&C but I did the standing rigging on my MacGregor 26C.  I used 
Suncor fittings.  Worked great.


http://www.suncorstainless.com/quick-attachtrade

Josh Muckley
S/ V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+

S/V Lasie
1990 MacGregor 26C

Solomons, MD




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Re: Stus-List Standing rigging replacement

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Not a C&C but I did the standing rigging on my MacGregor 26C.  I used
Suncor fittings.  Worked great.

http://www.suncorstainless.com/quick-attachtrade

Josh Muckley
S/ V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+

S/V Lasie
1990 MacGregor 26C

Solomons, MD
On Oct 23, 2014 3:33 PM, "David Donnelly via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I was thinking of replacing my standing rigging on my 26. I am thinking I
> can put it in a box and ship it to wherever so they can duplicate what I
> have now. I haven't really noticed anything wrong with it other than the
> threaded end for the turnbuckle on one of my lowers is bent slightly. I am
> sure everything is original 1977 so it may be a good idea to replace it. I
> would prefer to not involve cross border if possible but wouldn't rule it
> out. Does anyone want to recommend someone in Canada. Or USA if price is
> right.
>
> David
> C&C 26 Mistress
>
>
> Sent from Samsung Mobile
>
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>
>
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Re: Stus-List Standing rigging replacement

[Jim Watts via CnC-List]

I'd go with Blackline. I dealt with Jon Blanshard when he had his Tsehum
Harbour location and was not impressed. Not. At. All.

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC

On 23 October 2014 16:11, David Blair via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Brent Jacobi at Blackline Marine in Sidney is very good. Since it would be
> by freight location may not matter much in Canada.  FYI
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *David
> Donnelly via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 23, 2014 12:32 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Stus-List Standing rigging replacement
>
>
>
> I was thinking of replacing my standing rigging on my 26. I am thinking I
> can put it in a box and ship it to wherever so they can duplicate what I
> have now. I haven't really noticed anything wrong with it other than the
> threaded end for the turnbuckle on one of my lowers is bent slightly. I am
> sure everything is original 1977 so it may be a good idea to replace it. I
> would prefer to not involve cross border if possible but wouldn't rule it
> out. Does anyone want to recommend someone in Canada. Or USA if price is
> right.
>
>
>
> David
>
> C&C 26 Mistress
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Samsung Mobile
>
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>
>
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Re: Stus-List Standing rigging replacement

[David Blair via CnC-List]

Brent Jacobi at Blackline Marine in Sidney is very good. Since it would be by 
freight location may not matter much in Canada.  FYI

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David 
Donnelly via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 12:32 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Standing rigging replacement

 

I was thinking of replacing my standing rigging on my 26. I am thinking I can 
put it in a box and ship it to wherever so they can duplicate what I have now. 
I haven't really noticed anything wrong with it other than the threaded end for 
the turnbuckle on one of my lowers is bent slightly. I am sure everything is 
original 1977 so it may be a good idea to replace it. I would prefer to not 
involve cross border if possible but wouldn't rule it out. Does anyone want to 
recommend someone in Canada. Or USA if price is right.

 

David

C&C 26 Mistress

 

 

Sent from Samsung Mobile

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Re: Stus-List Standing rigging replacement

[Sam Salter via CnC-List]

David,

I replaced all my standing rigging on my C&C 26 about 3 years ago.
Forestay, backstay, cap shrouds and lower shrouds including all new turnbuckles 
from these guys on Vancouver Island:

http://www.blanchardrigging.com/

Packed one example of each in a box and sent it off.
Cost was $1200.

sam :-)
C&C 26  Liquorice
Ghost Lake  Alberta

On 2014-10-23, at 1:32 PM, David Donnelly via CnC-List  
wrote:

> I was thinking of replacing my standing rigging on my 26. I am thinking I can 
> put it in a box and ship it to wherever so they can duplicate what I have 
> now. I haven't really noticed anything wrong with it other than the threaded 
> end for the turnbuckle on one of my lowers is bent slightly. I am sure 
> everything is original 1977 so it may be a good idea to replace it. I would 
> prefer to not involve cross border if possible but wouldn't rule it out. Does 
> anyone want to recommend someone in Canada. Or USA if price is right.
> 
> David
> C&C 26 Mistress
> 
> 
> Sent from Samsung Mobile
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Stus-List Standing rigging replacement

[David Donnelly via CnC-List]

I was thinking of replacing my standing rigging on my 26. I am thinking I can 
put it in a box and ship it to wherever so they can duplicate what I have now. 
I haven't really noticed anything wrong with it other than the threaded end for 
the turnbuckle on one of my lowers is bent slightly. I am sure everything is 
original 1977 so it may be a good idea to replace it. I would prefer to not 
involve cross border if possible but wouldn't rule it out. Does anyone want to 
recommend someone in Canada. Or USA if price is right.

David
C&C 26 Mistress


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