Re: Stus-List Touche' steering system disassembly - issues of concern discovered

[Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List]

Dennis,

While reusing a damaged sprocket isn't the best idea, the one thing I'd do
to prevent the chain override in the future is to get the bolt and nut out
of the chain and install a legit steering stop at the "quadrant" (really a
radial drive).  As discussed by others, this would involve bolting an
upright heavy duty pin on the drive wheel that would hit against a wood
block on either side that was fiberglassed to a bulkhead.   If this sounds
like too much work, the other option is to install a tether style rudder
stop that mounts a loop or padeye to the drive wheel and anchors a high
strength tether (usually a UHMWPE 12 strand like Amsteel or similar) to a
point on the hull or  below deck, thus limiting travel.  In tether rudder
stops, a shock absorbing snubber is installed in the system to prevent the
tether from ripping apart a bulkhead or below deck fitting.

Edson's Steering System Planning Guide found on their website can show you
several ways to install rudder stops.  But relying on a bolt installed on
the steering chain to limit rudder travel has the potential of disabling the
entire steering system if pushed beyond the limit.  You may also consider
chain replacement if the chain has been run over broken sprocket teeth for
an extended period of time.

Finally, one of the main reasons Rob recommended changing out the chain/wire
assembly for most steering systems is typically not due to excessive wear of
the chain on the sprockets, but instead as a result of metal fatigue due to
crevice corrosion between the link plates of the chain.  Stainless does not
like to be deprived of oxygen and when it is, it performs very similarly to
mild steel (it rusts!) and the inside portion of a chain that you can't see
are the likely places for the corrosion to occur.  Bottom line, I never like
using the terms "steering" and "failure" in the same sentence and I try to
do everything possible to make sure my steering system is up to snuff on my
35 year old boat.

Best of luck!

Chuck Gilchrest

S/V Half Magic

1983 35 Landfall

Padanaram, MA

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Russ & Melody
via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2019 8:56 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Russ & Melody 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Touche' steering system disassembly - issues of
concern discovered

 


Hi Dennis,

I will guess that the sprocket damage is as you surmise, chain stop bolt
riding past the limit. Notice chain link gouge in port side housing too when
it rode up on the sprocket. I expect it was an single event while backing
down and the person lost control of the wheel. There is enough momentum
there to put the wheel hard over in a second and cause the damage. 

Your intuition is "bang on", reassemble without removing the sprocket.
Trying to get that sprocket off the axle is flirting with disaster.
Reassemble exactly as before, as the damaged teeth are not in the normally
loaded area anyhow.

Cheers, Russ
ex - Sweet 35 mk-1




 

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List Touche' steering system disassembly - issues of concern discovered

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Hi Dennis,

I will guess that the sprocket damage is as you 
surmise, chain stop bolt riding past the limit. 
Notice chain link gouge in port side housing too 
when it rode up on the sprocket. I expect it was 
an single event while backing down and the person 
lost control of the wheel. There is enough 
momentum there to put the wheel hard over in a second and cause the damage.


Your intuition is "bang on", reassemble without 
removing the sprocket. Trying to get that 
sprocket off the axle is flirting with disaster. 
Reassemble exactly as before, as the damaged 
teeth are not in the normally loaded area anyhow.


Cheers, Russ
ex - Sweet 35 mk-1





At 12:50 PM 1/23/2019, you wrote:
Well, I disassembled Touche's steering system 
yesterday for a lng overdue maintenance 
session.  As in it's never been done in 47 
years!  Touche's steering system is by Morch.


If you haven't checked your steering system, 
maybe this will inspire you to do so.


Concern 2.  Some of the teeth on the chain 
sprocket were damaged.  This was a complete surprise.
   * This was apparently caused by the way 
C/Morch made stops to limit the travel of the 
rudder.  They put a bolt at each end of the 
chain. The bolts must have caused the damage when the wheel reached its limit.
   * Note the two bolts with washers and nuts 
through the links of the chain 
here:Â 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nvJzh8xWDgetBCEE8eeOAtz4-up4ZvCf


Next steps. Â
   * The sprocket.  H.  The chain makes a 
full 180 degree wrap over the sprocket.  I 
believe there are plenty of undamaged teeth 
that will work.  On the other hand, I could 
try to get the sprocket off the shaft and have 
a machine shop make a new one.  I think that 
would be a risky option.  First, I'm not sure 
how I would remove the sprocket.  It has set 
screws 
(https://drive.google.com/open?id=12GbE75ERXZGgz_NalJ93RcXf6rKvL5fi). 
I removed a small one on the sprocket and a 
larger one on a collar adjacent to it.  I 
suspect there is a keyway on the sprocket.  It 
showed no signs of moving.  There are some 
inventive ways to try to pull the shaft but 
again, they all have risk.  Then there's the 
issue of the bearings.  If I muck up the bearings, I'm screwed. Â
   * Give some thought to a better way to stop 
the wheel at the travel limits.


Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Touche' steering system disassembly - issues of concern discovered

[John Conklin via CnC-List]

My engine controls on my 1982 are on pedestal  up and down only port side Fwd 
reverse and strarboard  up and down up for Power and really stiff. Mechanic 
said this in Normal Any one else have this system can share maybe how to lube 
or adjust. Takes a pretty good push to change gears. Afraid I will slip in a 
docking situation or force it little too hard. No safety either if you forget 
at a bit higher rpm and lift  shift level Oops Clunk! . Only happened once so 
far.  

John Conklin


From: CnC-List  on behalf of Neil Gallagher via 
CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2019 8:30:53 PM
To: Dennis C. via CnC-List
Cc: Neil Gallagher
Subject: Re: Stus-List Touche' steering system disassembly - issues of concern 
discovered

Dennis,

Thanks for the info, I'm going to have to look into my steering, also most 
likely also 47 yrs without an overhaul.

I note two differences between your system and mine:
- instead of bolts through the chain to limit the travel, mine has an aluminum 
plate bolted to the underside of the quadrant with "fingers" on each side which 
in turn contact a plate on each side of a centerline upright at the limiting 
angle,
-while your system has the engine controls in the pedestal, mine has them 
completely separate on the starboard side of the after cockpit.

Makes me wonder if C had different methods, particularly the angle stop, or 
if one was modified by a PO.

Neil Gallagher
Weatherly 35-1
Glen Cove, NY



On 1/23/2019 3:50 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote:
Well, I disassembled Touche's steering system yesterday for a lng overdue 
maintenance session.  As in it's never been done in 47 years!  Touche's 
steering system is by Morch.

If you haven't checked your steering system, maybe this will inspire you to do 
so.

Oh, no!  Someone stole my pedestal!!  
https://drive.google.com/open?id=12p-nlp8FEwqR0zhDrqlHqxkb7UMa0iSx<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdrive.google.com%2Fopen%3Fid%3D12p-nlp8FEwqR0zhDrqlHqxkb7UMa0iSx=02%7C01%7C%7C3df2a2ba71a64388014708d6819bb07c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636838903007102975=Ie2Qt%2Bltt3ImfIjIac5JmdhSKQ6923%2BayiKfxS4MY1E%3D=0>

I hope you find this helpful.  I found some items of concern.

Concern 1.  One of the steering cables had a broken strand.

  *   See: 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Mu-dmCnPnDFdd5jGHnkBAGSqbGL6jnrw<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdrive.google.com%2Fopen%3Fid%3D1Mu-dmCnPnDFdd5jGHnkBAGSqbGL6jnrw=02%7C01%7C%7C3df2a2ba71a64388014708d6819bb07c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636838903007102975=NXcWN%2FVqnvvGSfjR%2Fp%2FleZ5BPyXNtKaA1ACwxqwPjf8%3D=0>
  *   The break occurred where the cable made a sharp bend around the quadrant 
just before the adjusting stud.
  *   See:  
http://www.bwsailing.com/bw/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Edson-Quadrant-Dwg.jpg<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bwsailing.com%2Fbw%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F10%2FEdson-Quadrant-Dwg.jpg=02%7C01%7C%7C3df2a2ba71a64388014708d6819bb07c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636838903007102975=QDfvTE%2FjYHPTKq3M1EOKN%2F4K9aEA0ImQ616mBeUhMcM%3D=0>
  *   A buddy of mine who recently rebuilt the system in his Hans Christian 38 
said he saw the same on his

Concern 2.  Some of the teeth on the chain sprocket were damaged.  This was a 
complete surprise.

  *   See:  
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1amngA8i-rm1IkBvn0HhyVGeNrj7T6NSk<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdrive.google.com%2Fopen%3Fid%3D1amngA8i-rm1IkBvn0HhyVGeNrj7T6NSk=02%7C01%7C%7C3df2a2ba71a64388014708d6819bb07c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636838903007102975=Dls60EW2TL7ERu4uEpPH9%2Be0dj7m4YFvGErQGgbiEpg%3D=0>
  *   And:  
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1a1czFpkvfnyQuFbNIlfHZehhwk-Wyl-8<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdrive.google.com%2Fopen%3Fid%3D1a1czFpkvfnyQuFbNIlfHZehhwk-Wyl-8=02%7C01%7C%7C3df2a2ba71a64388014708d6819bb07c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636838903007102975=gZISDKJOQhEXvkg4JSpc5HutGtBuBsWaDYVWh3RpivA%3D=0>
  *   This was apparently caused by the way C/Morch made stops to limit the 
travel of the rudder.  They put a bolt at each end of the chain. The bolts must 
have caused the damage when the wheel reached its limit.
  *   Note the two bolts with washers and nuts through the links of the chain 
here:  
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nvJzh8xWDgetBCEE8eeOAtz4-up4ZvCf<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdrive.google.com%2Fopen%3Fid%3D1nvJzh8xWDgetBCEE8eeOAtz4-up4ZvCf=02%7C01%7C%7C3df2a2ba71a64388014708d6819bb07c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636838903007102975=jd3ehGts9C%2FO0y8ysGreY1Tlcjo2JDbxWYbekzl6d5s%3D=0>

Non-concerns.  The rest of the system looked pretty good.  The idler sheaves 
and bracket under the pedesta

Re: Stus-List Touche' steering system disassembly - issues of concern discovered

[Rob Ball via CnC-List]

Interesting test of older steering system.
Usually when idlers are serviced, we suggest new stainless pins, since the 
older brass pins wear .
I've never seen a sprocket damaged like that - obviously not from wear .
The corner of the quadrant where your cable started breaking is an obvious 
problem. Nowadays I am careful to use a larger radius there.
We normally suggest ten years life expectancy for the chain and cable, unless 
you're in the Caribbean and then it's a lot shorter.
> Rob Ball. C 34
> 
> 

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Touche' steering system disassembly - issues of concern discovered

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Don't knowabout the stops but Touche' originally had the engine controls on
the starboard bulkhead also.  I moved them to the pedestal when I repowered
with the diesel.  Ifilled thehole with a fuel guage.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Wed, Jan 23, 2019, 7:31 PM Neil Gallagher via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:

> Dennis,
>
> Thanks for the info, I'm going to have to look into my steering, also most
> likely also 47 yrs without an overhaul.
>
> I note two differences between your system and mine:
> - instead of bolts through the chain to limit the travel, mine has an
> aluminum plate bolted to the underside of the quadrant with "fingers" on
> each side which in turn contact a plate on each side of a centerline
> upright at the limiting angle,
> -while your system has the engine controls in the pedestal, mine has them
> completely separate on the starboard side of the after cockpit.
>
> Makes me wonder if C had different methods, particularly the angle stop,
> or if one was modified by a PO.
>
> Neil Gallagher
> Weatherly 35-1
> Glen Cove, NY
>
>
>
> On 1/23/2019 3:50 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote:
>
> Well, I disassembled Touche's steering system yesterday for a lng
> overdue maintenance session.  As in it's never been done in 47 years!
> Touche's steering system is by Morch.
>
> If you haven't checked your steering system, maybe this will inspire you
> to do so.
>
> Oh, no!  Someone stole my pedestal!!
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=12p-nlp8FEwqR0zhDrqlHqxkb7UMa0iSx
>
> I hope you find this helpful.  I found some items of concern.
>
> Concern 1.  One of the steering cables had a broken strand.
>
>- See:
>https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Mu-dmCnPnDFdd5jGHnkBAGSqbGL6jnrw
>- The break occurred where the cable made a sharp bend around the
>quadrant just before the adjusting stud.
>- See:
>
> http://www.bwsailing.com/bw/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Edson-Quadrant-Dwg.jpg
>- A buddy of mine who recently rebuilt the system in his Hans
>Christian 38 said he saw the same on his
>
> Concern 2.  Some of the teeth on the chain sprocket were damaged.  This
> was a complete surprise.
>
>- See:
>https://drive.google.com/open?id=1amngA8i-rm1IkBvn0HhyVGeNrj7T6NSk
>- And:
>https://drive.google.com/open?id=1a1czFpkvfnyQuFbNIlfHZehhwk-Wyl-8
>- This was apparently caused by the way C/Morch made stops to limit
>the travel of the rudder.  They put a bolt at each end of the chain. The
>bolts must have caused the damage when the wheel reached its limit.
>- Note the two bolts with washers and nuts through the links of the
>chain here:
>https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nvJzh8xWDgetBCEE8eeOAtz4-up4ZvCf
>
> Non-concerns.  The rest of the system looked pretty good.  The idler
> sheaves and bracket under the pedestal appeared to be in good condition.  I
> started to remove it but decided it will be easier to just pull the pins,
> remove the sheaves, clean, lube and re-install.
>
> The turning sheaves and brackets looked to be in good condition.  (See:
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jie9IxSqSKorp3FaJtcKjbsNh3nD1TBU).  I
> cleaned them and will lube and re-install.
>
> Next I needed to disassemble the engine control assembly so it can be
> stripped and painted.  Using guidance from Chuck, here's that process.
>
>- Back off or remove the two small Phillips head retaining machine
>screws.
>https://drive.google.com/open?id=1VxT_ApckY55M7xXKoctIShPmIKxgrFUj
>- Move one lever COMPLETELY to one side and push the other lever out.
>https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nqwnvA1UYDEHFVfuH9xi_-sy6YJrSOLE
>- Then remove the other lever.
>https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pjlIMBqk3lTdZ0vtSWg6TfnNFOcpXQZY
>
> Next steps.
>
>- Strip powder coat off the pedestal and associated parts and paint
>with AwlGrip.  Buddy of mine has leftover paint from painting his mast.
>- Replace both cables.  I'm deciding on this.  Edson's cable and wire
>kits look like simple swaged thimble eyes and fine thread eye bolts.  I
>have a Nicropress swaging tool, swages and thimbles.  I could make up the
>wire and buy the eye bolts.  On the other hand, we have a local rigging
>shop who could machine swage nicer replacements.  I think I may ask them
>for a quote.
>- The sprocket.  H.  The chain makes a full 180 degree wrap over
>the sprocket.  I believe there are plenty of undamaged teeth that will
>work.  On the other hand, I could try to get the sprocket off the shaft and
>have a machine shop make a new one.  I think that would be a risky option.
>First, I'm not sure how I would remove the sprocket.  It has set screws (
>https://drive.google.com/open?id=12GbE75ERXZGgz_NalJ93RcXf6rKvL5fi).
>I removed a small one on the sprocket and a larger one on a collar adjacent
>to it.  I suspect there is a keyway on the sprocket.  It showed no signs of
>moving.  There are some 

Re: Stus-List Touche' steering system disassembly - issues of concern discovered

[Neil Gallagher via CnC-List]

Dennis,

Thanks for the info, I'm going to have to look into my steering, also 
most likely also 47 yrs without an overhaul.


I note two differences between your system and mine:
- instead of bolts through the chain to limit the travel, mine has an 
aluminum plate bolted to the underside of the quadrant with "fingers" on 
each side which in turn contact a plate on each side of a centerline 
upright at the limiting angle,
-while your system has the engine controls in the pedestal, mine has 
them completely separate on the starboard side of the after cockpit.


Makes me wonder if C had different methods, particularly the angle 
stop, or if one was modified by a PO.


Neil Gallagher
Weatherly 35-1
Glen Cove, NY



On 1/23/2019 3:50 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote:
Well, I disassembled Touche's steering system yesterday for a lng 
overdue maintenance session.  As in it's never been done in 47 years! 
Touche's steering system is by Morch.


If you haven't checked your steering system, maybe this will inspire 
you to do so.


Oh, no!  Someone stole my pedestal!! 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=12p-nlp8FEwqR0zhDrqlHqxkb7UMa0iSx


I hope you find this helpful.  I found some items of concern.

Concern 1.  One of the steering cables had a broken strand.

  * See:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Mu-dmCnPnDFdd5jGHnkBAGSqbGL6jnrw
  * The break occurred where the cable made a sharp bend around the
quadrant just before the adjusting stud.
  * See:

http://www.bwsailing.com/bw/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Edson-Quadrant-Dwg.jpg
  * A buddy of mine who recently rebuilt the system in his Hans
Christian 38 said he saw the same on his

Concern 2.  Some of the teeth on the chain sprocket were damaged.  
This was a complete surprise.


  * See:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1amngA8i-rm1IkBvn0HhyVGeNrj7T6NSk
  * And:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1a1czFpkvfnyQuFbNIlfHZehhwk-Wyl-8
  * This was apparently caused by the way C/Morch made stops to
limit the travel of the rudder.  They put a bolt at each end of
the chain. The bolts must have caused the damage when the wheel
reached its limit.
  * Note the two bolts with washers and nuts through the links of the
chain here:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nvJzh8xWDgetBCEE8eeOAtz4-up4ZvCf

Non-concerns.  The rest of the system looked pretty good.  The idler 
sheaves and bracket under the pedestal appeared to be in good 
condition.  I started to remove it but decided it will be easier to 
just pull the pins, remove the sheaves, clean, lube and re-install.


The turning sheaves and brackets looked to be in good condition. (See: 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jie9IxSqSKorp3FaJtcKjbsNh3nD1TBU). I 
cleaned them and will lube and re-install.


Next I needed to disassemble the engine control assembly so it can be 
stripped and painted.  Using guidance from Chuck, here's that process.


  * Back off or remove the two small Phillips head retaining machine
screws.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1VxT_ApckY55M7xXKoctIShPmIKxgrFUj
  * Move one lever COMPLETELY to one side and push the other lever
out.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nqwnvA1UYDEHFVfuH9xi_-sy6YJrSOLE
  * Then remove the other lever.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pjlIMBqk3lTdZ0vtSWg6TfnNFOcpXQZY

Next steps.

  * Strip powder coat off the pedestal and associated parts and paint
with AwlGrip.  Buddy of mine has leftover paint from painting his
mast.
  * Replace both cables.  I'm deciding on this.  Edson's cable and
wire kits look like simple swaged thimble eyes and fine thread eye
bolts.  I have a Nicropress swaging tool, swages and thimbles.  I
could make up the wire and buy the eye bolts.  On the other hand,
we have a local rigging shop who could machine swage nicer
replacements.  I think I may ask them for a quote.
  * The sprocket.  H.  The chain makes a full 180 degree wrap over
the sprocket.  I believe there are plenty of undamaged teeth that
will work.  On the other hand, I could try to get the sprocket off
the shaft and have a machine shop make a new one.  I think that
would be a risky option.  First, I'm not sure how I would remove
the sprocket.  It has set screws
(https://drive.google.com/open?id=12GbE75ERXZGgz_NalJ93RcXf6rKvL5fi).
I removed a small one on the sprocket and a larger one on a collar
adjacent to it.  I suspect there is a keyway on the sprocket.  It
showed no signs of moving.  There are some inventive ways to try
to pull the shaft but again, they all have risk.  Then there's the
issue of the bearings.  If I muck up the bearings, I'm screwed.
  * Give some thought to a better way to stop the wheel at the travel
limits.

Here's the link to the folder with all the pics. 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=14-oaTFUoebWqxBo8xeUm9K8tPn7xObKE


So, again, if you haven't check your steering system, you might want 
to move that up your work list a bit.  

Re: Stus-List Touche' steering system disassembly - issues of concern discovered

[Dave Godwin via CnC-List]

Dennis,

Whew! That’s some serious rebuild effort. And worth every penny and hour of 
effort. Safety first.

I, on the other hand, ripped my old pedestal out of the cockpit and threw it in 
the trash, saving only the quadrant, 40” wheel, autopilot tiller arm and 
compass.

Gonna call the nice folks at Edson and start a wish list. Upside is that I have 
a cosmetically damaged “classic” 402 Series (8”) pedestal with attendant 
control levers that will replace the old original 6” pedestal.

Regards,
Dave Godwin
1982 C 37 - Ronin
Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
Ronin’s Overdue Refit 

> On Jan 23, 2019, at 3:50 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Well, I disassembled Touche's steering system yesterday for a lng overdue 
> maintenance session.  As in it's never been done in 47 years!  Touche's 
> steering system is by Morch.
> 
> If you haven't checked your steering system, maybe this will inspire you to 
> do so.
> 
> Oh, no!  Someone stole my pedestal!!  
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=12p-nlp8FEwqR0zhDrqlHqxkb7UMa0iSx 
> 
> 
> I hope you find this helpful.  I found some items of concern.
> 
> Concern 1.  One of the steering cables had a broken strand.  
> See: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Mu-dmCnPnDFdd5jGHnkBAGSqbGL6jnrw 
> 
> The break occurred where the cable made a sharp bend around the quadrant just 
> before the adjusting stud.  
> See:  
> http://www.bwsailing.com/bw/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Edson-Quadrant-Dwg.jpg 
> 
> A buddy of mine who recently rebuilt the system in his Hans Christian 38 said 
> he saw the same on his
> Concern 2.  Some of the teeth on the chain sprocket were damaged.  This was a 
> complete surprise.
> See:  https://drive.google.com/open?id=1amngA8i-rm1IkBvn0HhyVGeNrj7T6NSk 
> 
> And:  https://drive.google.com/open?id=1a1czFpkvfnyQuFbNIlfHZehhwk-Wyl-8 
> 
> This was apparently caused by the way C/Morch made stops to limit the 
> travel of the rudder.  They put a bolt at each end of the chain. The bolts 
> must have caused the damage when the wheel reached its limit.
> Note the two bolts with washers and nuts through the links of the chain here: 
>  https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nvJzh8xWDgetBCEE8eeOAtz4-up4ZvCf 
> 
> Non-concerns.  The rest of the system looked pretty good.  The idler sheaves 
> and bracket under the pedestal appeared to be in good condition.  I started 
> to remove it but decided it will be easier to just pull the pins, remove the 
> sheaves, clean, lube and re-install.
> 
> The turning sheaves and brackets looked to be in good condition.  (See: 
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jie9IxSqSKorp3FaJtcKjbsNh3nD1TBU 
> ).  I 
> cleaned them and will lube and re-install.
> 
> Next I needed to disassemble the engine control assembly so it can be 
> stripped and painted.  Using guidance from Chuck, here's that process.
> Back off or remove the two small Phillips head retaining machine screws.  
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1VxT_ApckY55M7xXKoctIShPmIKxgrFUj 
> 
> Move one lever COMPLETELY to one side and push the other lever out.  
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nqwnvA1UYDEHFVfuH9xi_-sy6YJrSOLE 
> 
> Then remove the other lever.  
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pjlIMBqk3lTdZ0vtSWg6TfnNFOcpXQZY 
> 
> Next steps.  
> Strip powder coat off the pedestal and associated parts and paint with 
> AwlGrip.  Buddy of mine has leftover paint from painting his mast.
> Replace both cables.  I'm deciding on this.  Edson's cable and wire kits look 
> like simple swaged thimble eyes and fine thread eye bolts.  I have a 
> Nicropress swaging tool, swages and thimbles.  I could make up the wire and 
> buy the eye bolts.  On the other hand, we have a local rigging shop who could 
> machine swage nicer replacements.  I think I may ask them for a quote.
> The sprocket.  H.  The chain makes a full 180 degree wrap over the 
> sprocket.  I believe there are plenty of undamaged teeth that will work.  On 
> the other hand, I could try to get the sprocket off the shaft and have a 
> machine shop make a new one.  I think that would be a risky option.  First, 
> I'm not sure how I would remove the sprocket.  It has set screws 
> (https://drive.google.com/open?id=12GbE75ERXZGgz_NalJ93RcXf6rKvL5fi 
> 

Re: Stus-List Touche' steering system disassembly - issues of concern discovered

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

The Edson sterring system in my 35 MKII is not very easy to work on. It
works. I don’t fix what works. I painted my pedastal With 2 part
polyurethane roller and brush next time i will use 1 part polyurethane
international Brightside. I lube the cable, chain and sheave with motor oil
but not that often
On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 4:50 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Well, I disassembled Touche's steering system yesterday for a lng
> overdue maintenance session.  As in it's never been done in 47 years!
> Touche's steering system is by Morch.
>
> If you haven't checked your steering system, maybe this will inspire you
> to do so.
>
> Oh, no!  Someone stole my pedestal!!
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=12p-nlp8FEwqR0zhDrqlHqxkb7UMa0iSx
>
> I hope you find this helpful.  I found some items of concern.
>
> Concern 1.  One of the steering cables had a broken strand.
>
>- See:
>https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Mu-dmCnPnDFdd5jGHnkBAGSqbGL6jnrw
>- The break occurred where the cable made a sharp bend around the
>quadrant just before the adjusting stud.
>- See:
>
> http://www.bwsailing.com/bw/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Edson-Quadrant-Dwg.jpg
>- A buddy of mine who recently rebuilt the system in his Hans
>Christian 38 said he saw the same on his
>
> Concern 2.  Some of the teeth on the chain sprocket were damaged.  This
> was a complete surprise.
>
>- See:
>https://drive.google.com/open?id=1amngA8i-rm1IkBvn0HhyVGeNrj7T6NSk
>- And:
>https://drive.google.com/open?id=1a1czFpkvfnyQuFbNIlfHZehhwk-Wyl-8
>- This was apparently caused by the way C/Morch made stops to limit
>the travel of the rudder.  They put a bolt at each end of the chain. The
>bolts must have caused the damage when the wheel reached its limit.
>- Note the two bolts with washers and nuts through the links of the
>chain here:
>https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nvJzh8xWDgetBCEE8eeOAtz4-up4ZvCf
>
> Non-concerns.  The rest of the system looked pretty good.  The idler
> sheaves and bracket under the pedestal appeared to be in good condition.  I
> started to remove it but decided it will be easier to just pull the pins,
> remove the sheaves, clean, lube and re-install.
>
> The turning sheaves and brackets looked to be in good condition.  (See:
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jie9IxSqSKorp3FaJtcKjbsNh3nD1TBU).  I
> cleaned them and will lube and re-install.
>
> Next I needed to disassemble the engine control assembly so it can be
> stripped and painted.  Using guidance from Chuck, here's that process.
>
>- Back off or remove the two small Phillips head retaining machine
>screws.
>https://drive.google.com/open?id=1VxT_ApckY55M7xXKoctIShPmIKxgrFUj
>- Move one lever COMPLETELY to one side and push the other lever out.
>https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nqwnvA1UYDEHFVfuH9xi_-sy6YJrSOLE
>- Then remove the other lever.
>https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pjlIMBqk3lTdZ0vtSWg6TfnNFOcpXQZY
>
> Next steps.
>
>- Strip powder coat off the pedestal and associated parts and paint
>with AwlGrip.  Buddy of mine has leftover paint from painting his mast.
>- Replace both cables.  I'm deciding on this.  Edson's cable and wire
>kits look like simple swaged thimble eyes and fine thread eye bolts.  I
>have a Nicropress swaging tool, swages and thimbles.  I could make up the
>wire and buy the eye bolts.  On the other hand, we have a local rigging
>shop who could machine swage nicer replacements.  I think I may ask them
>for a quote.
>- The sprocket.  H.  The chain makes a full 180 degree wrap over
>the sprocket.  I believe there are plenty of undamaged teeth that will
>work.  On the other hand, I could try to get the sprocket off the shaft and
>have a machine shop make a new one.  I think that would be a risky option.
>First, I'm not sure how I would remove the sprocket.  It has set screws (
>https://drive.google.com/open?id=12GbE75ERXZGgz_NalJ93RcXf6rKvL5fi).
>I removed a small one on the sprocket and a larger one on a collar adjacent
>to it.  I suspect there is a keyway on the sprocket.  It showed no signs of
>moving.  There are some inventive ways to try to pull the shaft but again,
>they all have risk.  Then there's the issue of the bearings.  If I muck up
>the bearings, I'm screwed.
>- Give some thought to a better way to stop the wheel at the travel
>limits.
>
> Here's the link to the folder with all the pics.
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=14-oaTFUoebWqxBo8xeUm9K8tPn7xObKE
>
> So, again, if you haven't check your steering system, you might want to
> move that up your work list a bit.  :)
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to 

Stus-List Touche' steering system disassembly - issues of concern discovered

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Well, I disassembled Touche's steering system yesterday for a lng
overdue maintenance session.  As in it's never been done in 47 years!
Touche's steering system is by Morch.

If you haven't checked your steering system, maybe this will inspire you to
do so.

Oh, no!  Someone stole my pedestal!!
https://drive.google.com/open?id=12p-nlp8FEwqR0zhDrqlHqxkb7UMa0iSx

I hope you find this helpful.  I found some items of concern.

Concern 1.  One of the steering cables had a broken strand.

   - See: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Mu-dmCnPnDFdd5jGHnkBAGSqbGL6jnrw
   - The break occurred where the cable made a sharp bend around the
   quadrant just before the adjusting stud.
   - See:
   http://www.bwsailing.com/bw/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Edson-Quadrant-Dwg.jpg
   - A buddy of mine who recently rebuilt the system in his Hans Christian
   38 said he saw the same on his

Concern 2.  Some of the teeth on the chain sprocket were damaged.  This was
a complete surprise.

   - See:
   https://drive.google.com/open?id=1amngA8i-rm1IkBvn0HhyVGeNrj7T6NSk
   - And:
   https://drive.google.com/open?id=1a1czFpkvfnyQuFbNIlfHZehhwk-Wyl-8
   - This was apparently caused by the way C/Morch made stops to limit
   the travel of the rudder.  They put a bolt at each end of the chain. The
   bolts must have caused the damage when the wheel reached its limit.
   - Note the two bolts with washers and nuts through the links of the
   chain here:
   https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nvJzh8xWDgetBCEE8eeOAtz4-up4ZvCf

Non-concerns.  The rest of the system looked pretty good.  The idler
sheaves and bracket under the pedestal appeared to be in good condition.  I
started to remove it but decided it will be easier to just pull the pins,
remove the sheaves, clean, lube and re-install.

The turning sheaves and brackets looked to be in good condition.  (See:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jie9IxSqSKorp3FaJtcKjbsNh3nD1TBU).  I
cleaned them and will lube and re-install.

Next I needed to disassemble the engine control assembly so it can be
stripped and painted.  Using guidance from Chuck, here's that process.

   - Back off or remove the two small Phillips head retaining machine
   screws.
   https://drive.google.com/open?id=1VxT_ApckY55M7xXKoctIShPmIKxgrFUj
   - Move one lever COMPLETELY to one side and push the other lever out.
   https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nqwnvA1UYDEHFVfuH9xi_-sy6YJrSOLE
   - Then remove the other lever.
   https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pjlIMBqk3lTdZ0vtSWg6TfnNFOcpXQZY

Next steps.

   - Strip powder coat off the pedestal and associated parts and paint with
   AwlGrip.  Buddy of mine has leftover paint from painting his mast.
   - Replace both cables.  I'm deciding on this.  Edson's cable and wire
   kits look like simple swaged thimble eyes and fine thread eye bolts.  I
   have a Nicropress swaging tool, swages and thimbles.  I could make up the
   wire and buy the eye bolts.  On the other hand, we have a local rigging
   shop who could machine swage nicer replacements.  I think I may ask them
   for a quote.
   - The sprocket.  H.  The chain makes a full 180 degree wrap over the
   sprocket.  I believe there are plenty of undamaged teeth that will work.
   On the other hand, I could try to get the sprocket off the shaft and have a
   machine shop make a new one.  I think that would be a risky option.  First,
   I'm not sure how I would remove the sprocket.  It has set screws (
   https://drive.google.com/open?id=12GbE75ERXZGgz_NalJ93RcXf6rKvL5fi).  I
   removed a small one on the sprocket and a larger one on a collar adjacent
   to it.  I suspect there is a keyway on the sprocket.  It showed no signs of
   moving.  There are some inventive ways to try to pull the shaft but again,
   they all have risk.  Then there's the issue of the bearings.  If I muck up
   the bearings, I'm screwed.
   - Give some thought to a better way to stop the wheel at the travel
   limits.

Here's the link to the folder with all the pics.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=14-oaTFUoebWqxBo8xeUm9K8tPn7xObKE

So, again, if you haven't check your steering system, you might want to
move that up your work list a bit.  :)

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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