Stus-List substitution of depth transducers

[Eric Frank via CnC-List]

I am replacing depth, speed and wind instruments on Cat’s Paw with i50 and i60 
Raymarine instruments.  As noted in an ongoing thread, it is difficult to 
remove the old depth transducer, so is it possible to use the old one with the 
new Raymarine display?  The old transducer is for a Signet Scientific MK172 
instrument, which is probably more than 12 years old but still works fine.  In 
the manual, it states that “The transmitter produces six pulses per second at 
an amplitude of 450 volts peak·to·peak with 63 watts of power output per pulse. 
The high power output is obtained by charging a large capacitor to build a 
large current flow without heavy drain from the external power source. The 
frequency is adjustable from 160 to 200 kHz but is set at the factory for 200 
kHz nominal.”  The transducer that came with the Raymarine instruments is an 
Airmar P319, listed on the tag on its cable as 50/200 KHz. That transducer also 
measures temperature, but I would be happy to forgo that if I didn’t have to 
change the transducer.  Is there a way of testing if the old transducer works 
with the new display while the boat is on the hard (for the winter)?  What 
happens if you test a transducer when it is completely out of water?  Would it 
harm the Raymarine instrument to be connected to the old transducer? 

Eric Frank
Cat's Paw
C&C 35 Mk II
Mattapoisett, MA

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Re: Stus-List substitution of depth transducers

[Bill Bina via CnC-List]

If you skip the part where I wasted a lot of time and effort when I 
tried to remove the old transducer with a hammer, and go straight to the 
holesaw method, it is a 5 minute job and really not that hard. I would 
not bother trying to use the very old transducer.


Bill Bina

On 11/25/2015 10:27 PM, Eric Frank via CnC-List wrote:

I am replacing depth, speed and wind instruments on Cat’s Paw with i50
and i60 Raymarine instruments.  As noted in an ongoing thread, it is
difficult to remove the old depth transducer, so is it possible to use
the old one with the new Raymarine display?  The old transducer is for a
Signet Scientific MK172 instrument, which is probably more than 12 years
old but still works fine.  In the manual, it states that “The
transmitter produces six pulses per second at an amplitude of 450 volts
peak·to·peak with 63 watts of power output per pulse. The high power
output is obtained by charging a large capacitor to build a large
current flow without heavy drain from the external power source. The
frequency is adjustable from 160 to 200 kHz but is set at the factory
for 200 kHz nominal.”  The transducer that came with the Raymarine
instruments is an Airmar P319, listed on the tag on its cable as 50/200
KHz. That transducer also measures temperature, but I would be happy to
forgo that if I didn’t have to change the transducer.  Is there a way of
testing if the old transducer works with the new display while the boat
is on the hard (for the winter)?  What happens if you test a transducer
when it is completely out of water?  Would it harm the Raymarine
instrument to be connected to the old transducer?

Eric Frank
Cat's Paw
C&C 35 Mk II
Mattapoisett, MA



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Re: Stus-List substitution of depth transducers

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

I will second that.  Last year I installed i50/i60 to replace the old B&G 1000 
system on the boat.  It was difficult but not impossible and really not all 
that long a time to remove the old transducers.  There is usually a flange on 
the exterior which I cut under with a sharp knife and then I slowly pried them 
out.  Along with the prying from outside I also placed a block of wood over the 
edge of transducer inside and tapped (rather hard tapping) with a hammer. They 
came out without damage to either transducer or the boat.  After removal I 
subsequently found out that the transducers themselves were only 2 or three 
years old despite the instruments being antiques.  Oh well.

The holes on the old transducers were smaller than those for the new ones.  I 
screwed a block of thin plywood in place on the interior to act as a guide for 
the drill bit on hole saw and then drilled out the larger hole.  Had I left the 
old transducers in place then likely the transducer itself could have been used 
for the drill bit of the hole saw 

Note that the hull is a whole lot tougher than the transducers.

Also note that you tend not to change engine oil and leave in old filter so why 
would you add nice new instruments and use old transducers that may be prone to 
failure other than as a way to avoid hauling a boat to do the work?

BTW.  Old and especially old and non functioning instruments on a boat are a 
pet peeve of mine.  The original owners of these boats spent a lot of time and 
money to outfit the boats properly and it is the least we can do when buying a 
nice boat for a fraction of its actual worth to treat the old gals properly.  
Same goes for 30 year old sails.

Mike
Persistence
1987 Frers 33
Halifax, NS

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bina 
via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 7:47 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Bill Bina
Subject: Re: Stus-List substitution of depth transducers

If you skip the part where I wasted a lot of time and effort when I tried to 
remove the old transducer with a hammer, and go straight to the holesaw method, 
it is a 5 minute job and really not that hard. I would not bother trying to use 
the very old transducer.

Bill Bina

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Re: Stus-List substitution of depth transducers

[Joe Della Barba via CnC-List]

NMEA units or combo speed depth and temp units aside, a basic 200 KHz
transducer is pretty good for a wide variety of depth finders. My transducer
dates back to the 1970s and I think I am on about the 5th depthfinder since
then. It still works fine.

Joe Della Barba
j...@dellabarba.com

Coquina

HAPPY THANKSGIVING

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt,
Mike via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 8:24 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Hoyt, Mike 
Subject: Re: Stus-List substitution of depth transducers

I will second that.  Last year I installed i50/i60 to replace the old B&G
1000 system on the boat.  It was difficult but not impossible and really not
all that long a time to remove the old transducers.  There is usually a
flange on the exterior which I cut under with a sharp knife and then I
slowly pried them out.  Along with the prying from outside I also placed a
block of wood over the edge of transducer inside and tapped (rather hard
tapping) with a hammer. They came out without damage to either transducer or
the boat.  After removal I subsequently found out that the transducers
themselves were only 2 or three years old despite the instruments being
antiques.  Oh well.

The holes on the old transducers were smaller than those for the new ones.
I screwed a block of thin plywood in place on the interior to act as a guide
for the drill bit on hole saw and then drilled out the larger hole.  Had I
left the old transducers in place then likely the transducer itself could
have been used for the drill bit of the hole saw 

Note that the hull is a whole lot tougher than the transducers.

Also note that you tend not to change engine oil and leave in old filter so
why would you add nice new instruments and use old transducers that may be
prone to failure other than as a way to avoid hauling a boat to do the work?

BTW.  Old and especially old and non functioning instruments on a boat are a
pet peeve of mine.  The original owners of these boats spent a lot of time
and money to outfit the boats properly and it is the least we can do when
buying a nice boat for a fraction of its actual worth to treat the old gals
properly.  Same goes for 30 year old sails.

Mike
Persistence
1987 Frers 33
Halifax, NS

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bina
via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 7:47 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Bill Bina
Subject: Re: Stus-List substitution of depth transducers

If you skip the part where I wasted a lot of time and effort when I tried to
remove the old transducer with a hammer, and go straight to the holesaw
method, it is a 5 minute job and really not that hard. I would not bother
trying to use the very old transducer.

Bill Bina

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Re: Stus-List substitution of depth transducers

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

New head unit will probably be NMEA 2000. You would need to splice the
wires.

Joel

On Thursday, November 26, 2015, Joe Della Barba via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> NMEA units or combo speed depth and temp units aside, a basic 200 KHz
> transducer is pretty good for a wide variety of depth finders. My
> transducer
> dates back to the 1970s and I think I am on about the 5th depthfinder since
> then. It still works fine.
>
> Joe Della Barba
> j...@dellabarba.com 
>
> Coquina
>
> HAPPY THANKSGIVING
>
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com ] On
> Behalf Of Hoyt,
> Mike via CnC-List
> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 8:24 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> Cc: Hoyt, Mike >
> Subject: Re: Stus-List substitution of depth transducers
>
> I will second that.  Last year I installed i50/i60 to replace the old B&G
> 1000 system on the boat.  It was difficult but not impossible and really
> not
> all that long a time to remove the old transducers.  There is usually a
> flange on the exterior which I cut under with a sharp knife and then I
> slowly pried them out.  Along with the prying from outside I also placed a
> block of wood over the edge of transducer inside and tapped (rather hard
> tapping) with a hammer. They came out without damage to either transducer
> or
> the boat.  After removal I subsequently found out that the transducers
> themselves were only 2 or three years old despite the instruments being
> antiques.  Oh well.
>
> The holes on the old transducers were smaller than those for the new ones.
> I screwed a block of thin plywood in place on the interior to act as a
> guide
> for the drill bit on hole saw and then drilled out the larger hole.  Had I
> left the old transducers in place then likely the transducer itself could
> have been used for the drill bit of the hole saw 
>
> Note that the hull is a whole lot tougher than the transducers.
>
> Also note that you tend not to change engine oil and leave in old filter so
> why would you add nice new instruments and use old transducers that may be
> prone to failure other than as a way to avoid hauling a boat to do the
> work?
>
> BTW.  Old and especially old and non functioning instruments on a boat are
> a
> pet peeve of mine.  The original owners of these boats spent a lot of time
> and money to outfit the boats properly and it is the least we can do when
> buying a nice boat for a fraction of its actual worth to treat the old gals
> properly.  Same goes for 30 year old sails.
>
> Mike
> Persistence
> 1987 Frers 33
> Halifax, NS
>
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com ] On
> Behalf Of Bill Bina
> via CnC-List
> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 7:47 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> Cc: Bill Bina
> Subject: Re: Stus-List substitution of depth transducers
>
> If you skip the part where I wasted a lot of time and effort when I tried
> to
> remove the old transducer with a hammer, and go straight to the holesaw
> method, it is a 5 minute job and really not that hard. I would not bother
> trying to use the very old transducer.
>
> Bill Bina
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com 
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom
> of page at:
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>
>
> ___
>
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> bottom of page at:
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>
>

-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List substitution of depth transducers

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Eric — the old transducer may very well work with the new head; you may lose 
readings at depths beyond 150 feet if your older transducer won’t do 50 kHz.

But as another lister pointed out, why not just have a nice new transducer to 
go along with your shiny new i50/i60 instruments?  Once you get the old 
transducer out, unless there’s any hull work to do, installing a new one 
doesn’t take that long.  And if you ever decide to take Cat’s Paw out into the 
Gulf Stream, you’ll be glad you have the temp transducer.

Happy Thanksgiving, all!

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Nov 25, 2015, at 9:27 PM, Eric Frank via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> I am replacing depth, speed and wind instruments on Cat’s Paw with i50 and 
> i60 Raymarine instruments.  As noted in an ongoing thread, it is difficult to 
> remove the old depth transducer, so is it possible to use the old one with 
> the new Raymarine display?  The old transducer is for a Signet Scientific 
> MK172 instrument, which is probably more than 12 years old but still works 
> fine.  In the manual, it states that “The transmitter produces six pulses per 
> second at an amplitude of 450 volts peak·to·peak with 63 watts of power 
> output per pulse. The high power output is obtained by charging a large 
> capacitor to build a large current flow without heavy drain from the external 
> power source. The frequency is adjustable from 160 to 200 kHz but is set at 
> the factory for 200 kHz nominal.”  The transducer that came with the 
> Raymarine instruments is an Airmar P319, listed on the tag on its cable as 
> 50/200 KHz. That transducer also measures temperature, but I would be happy 
> to forgo that if I didn’t have to change the transducer.  Is there a way of 
> testing if the old transducer works with the new display while the boat is on 
> the hard (for the winter)?  What happens if you test a transducer when it is 
> completely out of water?  Would it harm the Raymarine instrument to be 
> connected to the old transducer? 
> 
> Eric Frank
> Cat's Paw
> C&C 35 Mk II
> Mattapoisett, MA

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Re: Stus-List substitution of depth transducers

[Joe Della Barba via CnC-List]

If anyone needs one, I have a S-H 200 KHz transducer. I bought it when I got
a new depthfinder in case the issue was the old transducer, but it wasn't.

Joe Della Barba
j...@dellabarba.com

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joe Della
Barba via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 9:29 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Joe Della Barba 
Subject: Re: Stus-List substitution of depth transducers

NMEA units or combo speed depth and temp units aside, a basic 200 KHz
transducer is pretty good for a wide variety of depth finders. My transducer
dates back to the 1970s and I think I am on about the 5th depthfinder since
then. It still works fine.

Joe Della Barba
j...@dellabarba.com

Coquina

HAPPY THANKSGIVING

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt,
Mike via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 8:24 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Hoyt, Mike 
Subject: Re: Stus-List substitution of depth transducers

I will second that.  Last year I installed i50/i60 to replace the old B&G
1000 system on the boat.  It was difficult but not impossible and really not
all that long a time to remove the old transducers.  There is usually a
flange on the exterior which I cut under with a sharp knife and then I
slowly pried them out.  Along with the prying from outside I also placed a
block of wood over the edge of transducer inside and tapped (rather hard
tapping) with a hammer. They came out without damage to either transducer or
the boat.  After removal I subsequently found out that the transducers
themselves were only 2 or three years old despite the instruments being
antiques.  Oh well.

The holes on the old transducers were smaller than those for the new ones.
I screwed a block of thin plywood in place on the interior to act as a guide
for the drill bit on hole saw and then drilled out the larger hole.  Had I
left the old transducers in place then likely the transducer itself could
have been used for the drill bit of the hole saw 

Note that the hull is a whole lot tougher than the transducers.

Also note that you tend not to change engine oil and leave in old filter so
why would you add nice new instruments and use old transducers that may be
prone to failure other than as a way to avoid hauling a boat to do the work?

BTW.  Old and especially old and non functioning instruments on a boat are a
pet peeve of mine.  The original owners of these boats spent a lot of time
and money to outfit the boats properly and it is the least we can do when
buying a nice boat for a fraction of its actual worth to treat the old gals
properly.  Same goes for 30 year old sails.

Mike
Persistence
1987 Frers 33
Halifax, NS

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bina
via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 7:47 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Bill Bina
Subject: Re: Stus-List substitution of depth transducers

If you skip the part where I wasted a lot of time and effort when I tried to
remove the old transducer with a hammer, and go straight to the holesaw
method, it is a 5 minute job and really not that hard. I would not bother
trying to use the very old transducer.

Bill Bina

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Re: Stus-List substitution of depth transducers

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Hi Eric,

I didn't see all of your questions answered in 
the batch of replies. Don't worry, it's not 
unusual for this beloved group o' squirrel chasers :)
- there is no practical way for you to test the 
old transducer out of the water
- nothing happens if you try, no damage but it 
needs water as a medium to conduct the sound waves
- no harm in using the old Xducer to the new 
instrument, but as pointed out deep depth 
resolution is lost by not be able to access 50 kHz
I would put low expectation on the temperature 
part of the Raymarine transducer. Mine only 
lasted 2 years before it failed. I believe that is not uncommon.


Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1
B.C. South Coast


At 07:27 PM 25/11/2015, you wrote:
I am replacing depth, speed and wind instruments 
on Cat’s Paw with i50 and i60 Raymarine 
instruments.  As noted in an ongoing thread, it 
is difficult to remove the old depth transducer, 
so is it possible to use the old one with the 
new Raymarine display?  The old transducer is 
for a Signet Scientific MK172 instrument, which 
is probably more than 12 years old but still 
works fine.  In the manual, it states that “The 
transmitter produces six pulses per second at an 
amplitude of 450 volts peak·to·peak with 63 
watts of power output per pulse. The high power 
output is obtained by charging a large capacitor 
to build a large current flow without heavy 
drain from the external power source. The 
frequency is adjustable from 160 to 200 kHz but 
is set at the factory for 200 kHz nominal.”  The 
transducer that came with the Raymarine 
instruments is an Airmar P319, listed on the tag 
on its cable as 50/200 KHz. That transducer also 
measures temperature, but I would be happy to 
forgo that if I didn’t have to change the 
transducer.  Is there a way of testing if the 
old transducer works with the new display while 
the boat is on the hard (for the winter)?  What 
happens if you test a transducer when it is 
completely out of water?  Would it harm the 
Raymarine instrument to be connected to the old transducer?


Eric Frank
Cat's Paw
C&C 35 Mk II
Mattapoisett, MA

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Re: Stus-List substitution of depth transducers

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Actually, there is a way to test out of the water. 

Get a big Ziploc bag, fill it with water and hold the transducer touching the 
bag (where the water is). You should hear the clicks. You can potentially even 
see the “sound waves”. Best done with two people (unless you have about 4 
hands). It might depend on what frequency your transducer is using (50 Hz or 
200 Hz – 50 might be a bit low to hear it).

Marek

From: Russ & Melody via CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2015 2:41 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Russ & Melody 
Subject: Re: Stus-List substitution of depth transducers

Hi Eric,

I didn't see all of your questions answered in the batch of replies. Don't 
worry, it's not unusual for this beloved group o' squirrel chasers :) 
  - there is no practical way for you to test the old transducer out of the 
water 
  - nothing happens if you try, no damage but it needs water as a medium to 
conduct the sound waves 
  - no harm in using the old Xducer to the new instrument, but as pointed out 
deep depth resolution is lost by not be able to access 50 kHz 
I would put low expectation on the temperature part of the Raymarine 
transducer. Mine only lasted 2 years before it failed. I believe that is not 
uncommon.

Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1
B.C. South Coast


At 07:27 PM 25/11/2015, you wrote:

  I am replacing depth, speed and wind instruments on Cat’s Paw with i50 and 
i60 Raymarine instruments.  As noted in an ongoing thread, it is difficult to 
remove the old depth transducer, so is it possible to use the old one with the 
new Raymarine display?  The old transducer is for a Signet Scientific MK172 
instrument, which is probably more than 12 years old but still works fine.  In 
the manual, it states that “The transmitter produces six pulses per second at 
an amplitude of 450 volts peak·to·peak with 63 watts of power output per pulse. 
The high power output is obtained by charging a large capacitor to build a 
large current flow without heavy drain from the external power source. The 
frequency is adjustable from 160 to 200 kHz but is set at the factory for 200 
kHz nominal.”  The transducer that came with the Raymarine instruments is an 
Airmar P319, listed on the tag on its cable as 50/200 KHz. That transducer also 
measures temperature, but I would be happy to forgo that if I didn’t have to 
change the transducer.  Is there a way of testing if the old transducer works 
with the new display while the boat is on the hard (for the winter)?  What 
happens if you test a transducer when it is completely out of water?  Would it 
harm the Raymarine instrument to be connected to the old transducer? 

  Eric Frank
  Cat's Paw
  C&C 35 Mk II
  Mattapoisett, MA 

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Re: Stus-List substitution of depth transducers

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

After re-reading the original message, I should correct myself. You can test if 
the transducer is working, but not if the echo sounder is – your calibration 
might be completely off.

Marek

From: Russ & Melody via CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2015 2:41 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Russ & Melody 
Subject: Re: Stus-List substitution of depth transducers

Hi Eric,

I didn't see all of your questions answered in the batch of replies. Don't 
worry, it's not unusual for this beloved group o' squirrel chasers :) 
  - there is no practical way for you to test the old transducer out of the 
water 
  - nothing happens if you try, no damage but it needs water as a medium to 
conduct the sound waves 
  - no harm in using the old Xducer to the new instrument, but as pointed out 
deep depth resolution is lost by not be able to access 50 kHz 
I would put low expectation on the temperature part of the Raymarine 
transducer. Mine only lasted 2 years before it failed. I believe that is not 
uncommon.

Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1
B.C. South Coast


At 07:27 PM 25/11/2015, you wrote:

  I am replacing depth, speed and wind instruments on Cat’s Paw with i50 and 
i60 Raymarine instruments.  As noted in an ongoing thread, it is difficult to 
remove the old depth transducer, so is it possible to use the old one with the 
new Raymarine display?  The old transducer is for a Signet Scientific MK172 
instrument, which is probably more than 12 years old but still works fine.  In 
the manual, it states that “The transmitter produces six pulses per second at 
an amplitude of 450 volts peak·to·peak with 63 watts of power output per pulse. 
The high power output is obtained by charging a large capacitor to build a 
large current flow without heavy drain from the external power source. The 
frequency is adjustable from 160 to 200 kHz but is set at the factory for 200 
kHz nominal.”  The transducer that came with the Raymarine instruments is an 
Airmar P319, listed on the tag on its cable as 50/200 KHz. That transducer also 
measures temperature, but I would be happy to forgo that if I didn’t have to 
change the transducer.  Is there a way of testing if the old transducer works 
with the new display while the boat is on the hard (for the winter)?  What 
happens if you test a transducer when it is completely out of water?  Would it 
harm the Raymarine instrument to be connected to the old transducer? 

  Eric Frank
  Cat's Paw
  C&C 35 Mk II
  Mattapoisett, MA 

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Re: Stus-List substitution of depth transducers

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Russ — there actually IS a way to test depth transducers out of the water.  
Hook it up and turn on the depth instrument, then put an AM radio near the 
transducer, turn it on and tune it away from a station to static.  If you then 
hear a regular “tick-tick-tick” sound coming out of the radio which gets louder 
as you get the radio closer to the transducer, then the transducer is working.

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Nov 27, 2015, at 1:41 PM, Russ & Melody via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Eric,
> 
> I didn't see all of your questions answered in the batch of replies. Don't 
> worry, it's not unusual for this beloved group o' squirrel chasers :)
> - there is no practical way for you to test the old transducer out of the 
> water

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Re: Stus-List substitution of depth transducers

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Yes Fred. Agreed.

In my address to Eric, I meant him as the "you" 
and I assumed he is not old enough to know what 
an AM radio really is, let alone have one sitting on a shelf somewhere. :)


And as Marek points out it doesn't verify 
accurate functionality with the Raymarine head, 
which is the practical part anyway.


Now, how about the unreliability issue with the 
temperature sensing element of the Raymarine 
transducer? Is it a simple RTD and of what value, 
so I can haywire something in stead of it?


Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1
B.C. South Coast, where it has dropped 
below freezing on some nights now!


At 12:32 PM 27/11/2015, you wrote:
Russ — there actually IS a way to test depth 
transducers out of the water.  Hook it up and 
turn on the depth instrument, then put an AM 
radio near the transducer, turn it on and tune 
it away from a station to static.  If you then 
hear a regular “tick-tick-tick” sound coming 
out of the radio which gets louder as you get 
the radio closer to the transducer, then the transducer is working.


— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

On Nov 27, 2015, at 1:41 PM, Russ & Melody via 
CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:


Hi Eric,

I didn't see all of your questions answered in 
the batch of replies. Don't worry, it's not 
unusual for this beloved group o' squirrel chasers :)
- there is no practical way for you to test the 
old transducer out of the water


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Re: Stus-List substitution of depth transducers

[Eric Frank via CnC-List]

Russ,
Delighted to hear that my language apparently puts me in the “young” category.  
I turned 70 this summer - used to build ham radio transmitters with my father 
using vacuum tubes.  I do have an old handheld weather radio that tunes in AM, 
but the input from this list has convinced me to replace the old transducer.

The input on this subject has been very helpful, especially the suggestions for 
how to remove the old transducer.  It sounds much easier than I had imagined.  
And as Fred points out - who knows - I might need to measure water temperature 
when I sail to Bermuda again - not since 1972 when I sailed to the Azores with 
my father on a lovely 43 foot SS yawl, a sister ship to Finisterre.

Cheers,  Eric
Cat's Paw
C&C 35 Mk II
Mattapoisett, MA


> Yes Fred. Agreed.
> 
> In my address to Eric, I meant him as the "you" 
> and I assumed he is not old enough to know what 
> an AM radio really is, let alone have one sitting on a shelf somewhere. :)
> 
> And as Marek points out it doesn't verify 
> accurate functionality with the Raymarine head, 
> which is the practical part anyway.
> 
> Now, how about the unreliability issue with the 
> temperature sensing element of the Raymarine 
> transducer? Is it a simple RTD and of what value, 
> so I can haywire something in stead of it?
> 
> Cheers, Russ
> Sweet 35 mk-1
> B.C. South Coast, where it has dropped 
> below freezing on some nights now!


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Re: Stus-List substitution of depth transducers

[S Thomas via CnC-List]

I have an old black and orange zodiac that I believe may have been part of 
Finisterre's equipment at one time.

It has Finisterre written on it in big black letters anyway.
Bought it well used from a guy in London Ontario, who had a very large 
house, and who told me he had been using it "up at the cottage".
I was not familiar with the boat name, but the guy I took it to for 
re-gluing in Port Dover was impressed. Said that he knew the boat.

That was about 12 years ago.

You just never know what person or what historical object you might bump 
into.


Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
Port Stanley, ON
C&C36 MKI
Merritt Island, FL


- Original Message - 
From: "Eric Frank via CnC-List" 

To: 
Cc: "Eric Frank" 
Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2015 17:41
Subject: Re: Stus-List substitution of depth transducers


Russ,
Delighted to hear that my language apparently puts me in the “young” 
category.  I turned 70 this summer - used to build ham radio transmitters 
with my father using vacuum tubes.  I do have an old handheld weather radio 
that tunes in AM, but the input from this list has convinced me to replace 
the old transducer.


The input on this subject has been very helpful, especially the suggestions 
for how to remove the old transducer.  It sounds much easier than I had 
imagined.  And as Fred points out - who knows - I might need to measure 
water temperature when I sail to Bermuda again - not since 1972 when I 
sailed to the Azores with my father on a lovely 43 foot SS yawl, a sister 
ship to Finisterre.


Cheers,  Eric
Cat's Paw
C&C 35 Mk II
Mattapoisett, MA




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Re: Stus-List substitution of depth transducers

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Eric -- if Joel can do it on his 35, you can, too.   :^)

-- Fred

> On Nov 28, 2015, at 4:41 PM, Eric Frank via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> And as Fred points out - who knows - I might need to measure water 
> temperature when I sail to Bermuda again - not since 1972 when I sailed to 
> the Azores with my father on a lovely 43 foot SS yawl, a sister ship to 
> Finisterre.
> 
> Cheers,  Eric
> Cat's Paw
> C&C 35 Mk II
> Mattapoisett, MA

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Re: Stus-List substitution of depth transducers

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

This is the first one I’ve heard of that failed.  Usually they’re very 
reliable.  It’s just a thermistor potted in the transducer housing:

http://www.airmartechnology.com/uploads/wiringdiagrams/91_636.pdf 


No info on the value of the thermistor...

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Nov 27, 2015, at 6:47 PM, Russ & Melody via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Now, how about the unreliability issue with the temperature sensing element 
> of the Raymarine transducer? Is it a simple RTD and of what value, so I can 
> haywire something in stead of it?
> 
> Cheers, Russ
> Sweet 35 mk-1
> B.C. South Coast, where it has dropped below freezing on some nights 
> now!

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Re: Stus-List substitution of depth transducers

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Hi Fred,

Thanks for the link. I think maybe I should get 
one of my Instrument mechanics to see if they can 
come up with a value for the thermistor. 
Otherwise I might just grab a few and do it on a trial basis.


When it first started failing, years ago, I 
mentioned it at a C&C rendezvous and got a "don't 
worry, it happens all the time" kinda response. I 
would like to credit Jim but now I can't be sure. 
And when the one on Amazing Grace went too I came 
to believe it is common. Or maybe the Strait of 
Georgia is responding well to the promise of 
global warming and really is 120.4 degrees :)


Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1
B.C. South Coast


At 06:44 PM 29/11/2015, you wrote:
This is the first one I’ve heard of that 
failed.  Usually they’re very 
reliable.  It’s just a thermistor potted in the transducer housing:


http://www.airmartechnology.com/uploads/wiringdiagrams/91_636.pdf

No info on the value of the thermistor...

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

On Nov 27, 2015, at 6:47 PM, Russ & Melody via 
CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:


Now, how about the unreliability issue with the 
temperature sensing element of the Raymarine 
transducer? Is it a simple RTD and of what 
value, so I can haywire something in stead of it?


Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1
B.C. South Coast, where it has dropped 
below freezing on some nights now!


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Re: Stus-List substitution of depth transducers

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

120.4 degrees, eh?  A few years ago during an offshore race, Touche's wind
instrument indicated a steady 99 knots with gusts to 274 knots.  After a
power off/on cycle it indicated a more reasonable low 20's.  :)

Dennis C

On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 9:28 PM, Russ & Melody via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi Fred,
>
> Thanks for the link. I think maybe I should get one of my Instrument
> mechanics to see if they can come up with a value for the thermistor.
> Otherwise I might just grab a few and do it on a trial basis.
>
> When it first started failing, years ago, I mentioned it at a C&C
> rendezvous and got a "don't worry, it happens all the time" kinda response.
> I would like to credit Jim but now I can't be sure. And when the one on 
> *Amazing
> Grace *went too I came to believe it is common. Or maybe the Strait of
> Georgia is responding well to the promise of global warming and really is
> 120.4 degrees :)
>
> Cheers, Russ
> *Sweet *35 mk-1
> B.C. South Coast
>
>
> At 06:44 PM 29/11/2015, you wrote:
>
> This is the first one I’ve heard of that failed.  Usually they’re very
> reliable.  It’s just a thermistor potted in the transducer housing:
>
> http://www.airmartechnology.com/uploads/wiringdiagrams/91_636.pdf
>
> No info on the value of the thermistor...
>
> — Fred
>
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
>
> On Nov 27, 2015, at 6:47 PM, Russ & Melody via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Now, how about the unreliability issue with the temperature sensing
> element of the Raymarine transducer? Is it a simple RTD and of what value,
> so I can haywire something in stead of it?
>
> Cheers, Russ
> Sweet 35 mk-1
> B.C. South Coast, where it has dropped below freezing on some
> nights now!
>
>
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Re: Stus-List substitution of depth transducers

[David via CnC-List]

With the ST60 we get the opposit.   50 degrees F.  Called Raymarine and they 
said it was common.   Works on a relative increase basis (e.g identifying Gulf 
Stream) so we dont care about absolute numbers...

David F. Risch
1981 40-2
(401) 419-4650 (cell)


Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 21:41:40 -0600
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List substitution of depth transducers
From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
CC: capt...@gmail.com

120.4 degrees, eh?  A few years ago during an offshore race, Touche's wind 
instrument indicated a steady 99 knots with gusts to 274 knots.  After a power 
off/on cycle it indicated a more reasonable low 20's.  :)

Dennis C

On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 9:28 PM, Russ & Melody via CnC-List 
 wrote:


Hi Fred,


Thanks for the link. I think maybe I should get one of my Instrument
mechanics to see if they can come up with a value for the thermistor.
Otherwise I might just grab a few and do it on a trial basis. 


When it first started failing, years ago, I mentioned it at a C&C
rendezvous and got a "don't worry, it happens all the time"
kinda response. I would like to credit Jim but now I can't be sure. And
when the one on Amazing Grace went too I came to believe it is
common. Or maybe the Strait of Georgia is responding well to the promise
of global warming and really is 120.4 degrees :)


Cheers,
Russ

Sweet
35 mk-1

B.C. South
Coast




At 06:44 PM 29/11/2015, you wrote:

This is the first one I’ve
heard of that failed.  Usually they’re very reliable.  It’s
just a thermistor potted in the transducer housing:



http://www.airmartechnology.com/uploads/wiringdiagrams/91_636.pdf



No info on the value of the thermistor...


— Fred


Fred Street -- Minneapolis

S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield,
WI   :^(


On Nov 27, 2015, at 6:47 PM,
Russ & Melody via CnC-List

wrote:


Now, how about the unreliability issue with the temperature sensing
element of the Raymarine transducer? Is it a simple RTD and of what
value, so I can haywire something in stead of it?


Cheers,
Russ

Sweet 35
mk-1

B.C. South
Coast, where it has dropped below freezing on some nights
now!

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Re: Stus-List substitution of depth transducers now instrument errors

[Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List]

I've got a friend with a really fast boat; does 2kts in the slip.RonWild 
CheriC&C 30-1STL
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Re: Stus-List substitution of depth transducers now instrument errors

[S Thomas via CnC-List]

Our slips are in a river. 
There are occasions where 2kts in the slip is a correct reading. 

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
Port Stanley, ON 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List 
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
  Cc: Ronald B. Frerker 
  Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 23:45
  Subject: Re: Stus-List substitution of depth transducers now instrument errors


  I've got a friend with a really fast boat; does 2kts in the slip.
  Ron
  Wild Cheri
  C&C 30-1
  STL




--


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