Re: [CGUYS] Important Information Regarding Changes to Your Verizon Online Terms Of Service

[John Duncan Yoyo]

Verizon did more than block alt.binaries which would have been a reasonable
way to accomplish what Attorney General Andrew Cuomo of New York claimed he
wanted to accomplish.  They stopped offering any usenet groups except the
big eight domains.  FWIW it is better than what Comcast and some others did
they just dropped all Usenet offerings.

There is some talk that this is actually a RIAA ploy to block music piracy
on the alt groups.  Given the subltly involved here I doubt it but they may
have hired a non-idiot lawyer by accident of course they would have
accomplished the same thing by just having the binaries groups dropped.



I pay a third party for Usenet to get a couple of alt discusion groups I've
participated in for a decade or more. Plus the alt groups are still
available through google groups.  I doubt Verizon can get away with blocking
that service given the smack down Comcast got from the FCC last month for
messing with content.

On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 11:49 PM, Tony B <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I only know what I've read, as I don't live in Verizon territory.
>
> http://www.giganews.com/verizon-sprint-special.html
> "According to a recent announcement, Verizon will stop providing
> access to alt.binaries newsgroups on their internal Usenet systems as
> of June 24, 2008. Sprint will stop providing access to alt.binaries
> newsgroups sometime thereafter. "
>
> also:
> http://www.zeropaid.com/news/3998/Verizon+Drops+Several+Binary+Newsgroups
> - which points out they really started dropping groups in 2004, and
> apparently couldn't come up with a good enough excuse to drop all of
> them until 2008.
>
> Presumably you have to update your groups list for the dead groups to
> be excised.
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 11:28 PM, b_s-wilk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> Actually, Verizon was one of the first to cave. They deleted all their
> >> binary newsgroups a while back. A real hit for their customers, as it
> >> was one of the best free servers around.
> >
> >
> > There are a lot of good newsgroups at alt.binaries. Lists I see in my
> client
> > go from 3d.bryce to zines. This is on Verizon. They never deleted any of
> the
> > good newsgroups from their list. Where did Verizon do their customers
> wrong?
> > Not here in eastern Maryland, except for lack of speed, but price is OK.
> > Some of the best computer groups are in alt, as are some of the funniest
> and
> > more creative groups.
>
>
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-- 
John Duncan Yoyo
---o)


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Re: [CGUYS] Important Information Regarding Changes to Your Verizon Online Terms Of Service

[Tony B]

I only know what I've read, as I don't live in Verizon territory.

http://www.giganews.com/verizon-sprint-special.html
"According to a recent announcement, Verizon will stop providing
access to alt.binaries newsgroups on their internal Usenet systems as
of June 24, 2008. Sprint will stop providing access to alt.binaries
newsgroups sometime thereafter. "

also:
http://www.zeropaid.com/news/3998/Verizon+Drops+Several+Binary+Newsgroups
- which points out they really started dropping groups in 2004, and
apparently couldn't come up with a good enough excuse to drop all of
them until 2008.

Presumably you have to update your groups list for the dead groups to
be excised.


On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 11:28 PM, b_s-wilk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> Actually, Verizon was one of the first to cave. They deleted all their
>> binary newsgroups a while back. A real hit for their customers, as it
>> was one of the best free servers around.
>
>
> There are a lot of good newsgroups at alt.binaries. Lists I see in my client
> go from 3d.bryce to zines. This is on Verizon. They never deleted any of the
> good newsgroups from their list. Where did Verizon do their customers wrong?
> Not here in eastern Maryland, except for lack of speed, but price is OK.
> Some of the best computer groups are in alt, as are some of the funniest and
> more creative groups.


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Re: [CGUYS] Important Information Regarding Changes to Your Verizon Online Terms Of Service

[b_s-wilk]

>
> Actually, Verizon was one of the first to cave. They deleted all their
> binary newsgroups a while back. A real hit for their customers, as it
> was one of the best free servers around.


There are a lot of good newsgroups at alt.binaries. Lists I see in my 
client go from 3d.bryce to zines. This is on Verizon. They never deleted 
any of the good newsgroups from their list. Where did Verizon do their 
customers wrong? Not here in eastern Maryland, except for lack of speed, 
but price is OK. Some of the best computer groups are in alt, as are 
some of the funniest and more creative groups.


BTW, I filter all of the CGUYS emails to a separate folder. Never goes 
to 'junk'. Why do my bank and investment notices get marked as spam? Uh Oh.


Wow. Won't that make it harder for them to claim safe harbour when sued 
for something a subscriber does? If they are monitoring and something bad 
crosses their network it must be because they permitted it. No?


Can't sue them. They have immunity.

Betty


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Re: [CGUYS] What we actually get for our money...

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

I believe that Murphy was the one who said the chances of the toast 
falling on the floor butter side down is in inverse proportion to the 
cost of the carpet.


Stewart


At 09:15 PM 8/19/2008, you wrote:
I am not a financial analyst but I know how to bet on whether the

toast falls on the floor butter side up or butter side down.


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] What we actually get for our money...

[Eric S. Sande]

Same for the monopolies that exist in cable and telco broadband that allow 
them to set rates based on whatever they can get away with instead of 
letting the market determine rates with competition, or providing quality 
broadband service [and choice] without gouging the customers, as it is 
today. Of course businesses exist to provide products and services at a 
profit, but without competition and subisidies, most tend to take advantage 
of that position at the expense of the customers.


Betty, I would like to agree with you.  But it takes investment to
do this.

I would like you to read these articles in the New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/19/technology/19fios.html?_r=2&ref=business&oref=slogin&oref=slogin.

This one is pretty pessimistic but it has a lot of truth in it.

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/19/a-bear-speaks-why-verizons-pricey-fios-bet-wont-pay-off/index.html?ref=technology

I think "more successful than expected" says it all.

I am not a financial analyst but I know how to bet on whether the
toast falls on the floor butter side up or butter side down.


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Re: [CGUYS] Important Information Regarding Changes to Your Ver

[Brian Jones]

Doesn't the "right, but not the obligation, to" free them from this burden?
 - Brian

- Original Message - 
From: "Tom Piwowar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Important Information Regarding Changes to Your Ver



>"4. Modifications to AUP.  We have added language to our AUP making

clear (a) that we may monitor our subscribers' compliance with our Terms
of Service and AUP; and (b) that we have the right, but not the
obligation, to pre-screen, refuse, move or remove any content available
on the Service including, but not limited to, content that violates the
law, our Terms of Service or our AUP."


Wow. Won't that make it harder for them to claim safe harbour when sued
for something a subscriber does? If they are monitoring and something bad
crosses their network it must be because they permitted it. No?



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Re: [CGUYS] No Ghosts (Maybe Spooks)

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

Whoops that must have been a day when I had spam for lunch.  :-)

Stewart


At 08:17 PM 8/19/2008, you wrote:

Sign up for a gmail account.  They seem to have fairly accurate spam
filters.  For some reason only the Rev has ever landed in my spam folder
from this list and that was only once or twice.


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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[CGUYS] drive sled question

[rlsimon]

they sell drive sleds (inserts so you can stick a 2nd ide drive in the dock
of an ibm laptop ...ultrabay 2000) ...there are 2 formats of these sleds
...one is plastic and has no bottom (??air circulation) ...the other is
plastic and has a metal housing ...which is better?  cost similar...


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Re: [CGUYS] No Ghosts (Maybe Spooks)

[John Duncan Yoyo]

Sign up for a gmail account.  They seem to have fairly accurate spam
filters.  For some reason only the Rev has ever landed in my spam folder
from this list and that was only once or twice.

On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 8:50 PM, Tom Piwowar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> >What are the key words that set off an ISP to block email?
>
> Avoid the word "Betty."
>
>
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-- 
John Duncan Yoyo
---o)


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Re: [CGUYS] What we actually get for our money...

[Jeff Wright]

> The public-private partnerships that created satellite communications
> were necessary advancements that couldn't have been done at the time
> [or now] by private corporations. Same for Arpanet and the Internet. Same
> for the monopolies that exist in cable and telco broadband that allow
> them to set rates based on whatever they can get away with instead of
> letting the market determine rates with competition, or providing
> quality broadband service [and choice] without gouging the customers,
> as it is today. 

Man.  That's some military-grade RDF.  I see you still haven't connected the
dots as to why there is no significant competition in broadband in the first
place.  Oh well.

The above is completely speculative and without any grounding in fact.
*Couldn't* have been done without federal funding and *wasn't* done are 2
different things.  To suggest that nothing BIG can't be done without guvmint
money is a view divorced from reality. And to conveniently forget to mention
that a good deal of what you list was done in the interest of countering the
Soviets during the cold war is shifty at best.  The military-industrial
complex, which I doubt you are a terrific fan of, is at the core of all of
that.

Many very big things are done, every day, without a drop of guvmint funds.
You simply choose to ignore them, as you do the massive waste that occurs as
a result of constituent fluffing, something slimy old pols such as Robert
Byrd and Ted Steven like to brag about to the folks back home.  I suppose
the Fed-driven housing bubble was a good thing too.

It's the child-like views about government you display is as to why our
country is trillions of dollars in debt, and are deeply indebted to powers
that I would rather not have so much leverage over us, such as China and
Saudi Arabia.  You show no criteria for discriminating between easily
justifiable funding, such as epidemic control and infectious disease
research (you know, the kind where they _don't_ kill you on purpose), and
throwing tax money willy-nilly at privately-owned broadband oligopolies
because your youtube videos are choppy.  As long as one can make the most
tenuous of arguments that it will "add to our economic security," you'd
throw the treasury doors wide open.  

What *wouldn't* you fund?  Wait!  I know.  Subsidized timber for church
pews.


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Re: [CGUYS] No Ghosts (Maybe Spooks)

[Tom Piwowar]

>What are the key words that set off an ISP to block email?

Avoid the word "Betty."


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Re: [CGUYS] No Ghosts (Maybe Spooks)

[John DeCarlo]

On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 4:13 PM, b_s-wilk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> What are the key words that set off an ISP to block email?
>

The real question is, what kind of uneducated users block mailing lists that
they subscribed to as spam?

http://www.thisistrue.com/blog-yahoo_alert_trues_biggest_crisis_ever.html


-- 
John DeCarlo, My Views Are My Own


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Re: [CGUYS] No Ghosts (Maybe Spooks)

[mike]

Not going to fool me! I won't set them off!

On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 1:13 PM, b_s-wilk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
>
> What are the key words that set off an ISP to block email?
>
>


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Re: [CGUYS] No Ghosts (Maybe Spooks)

[b_s-wilk]

Tom Piwowar escribió:
p.s. I haven't received any CGUYs posts since Sunday at midnight. The 
archives and cguys.org include posts from yesterday and today. I have 
email today from friends and other subscriptions. Is it my email, ISP, 
or AOL? Ghosts? thx


We are still here and chattering away. Monday and today have been a 
little slow. Your membership is active and not on the bounce list. Maybe 
the spooks reading overseas emails are falling behind because too many 
took August off?




I'll wait until the midnight digest. Might subscribe with a Verizon or 
AOL/AIM email to see if they have ghosts or are monitoring.


What are the key words that set off an ISP to block email?

Betty



George Carlin, RIP [or maybe not!]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_dirty_words


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Re: [CGUYS] Important Information Regarding Changes to Your Ver

[Tom Piwowar]

>"4. Modifications to AUP.  We have added language to our AUP making 
>clear (a) that we may monitor our subscribers' compliance with our Terms 
>of Service and AUP; and (b) that we have the right, but not the 
>obligation, to pre-screen, refuse, move or remove any content available 
>on the Service including, but not limited to, content that violates the 
>law, our Terms of Service or our AUP."

Wow. Won't that make it harder for them to claim safe harbour when sued 
for something a subscriber does? If they are monitoring and something bad 
crosses their network it must be because they permitted it. No?


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[CGUYS] No Ghosts (Maybe Spooks)

[Tom Piwowar]

>p.s. I haven't received any CGUYs posts since Sunday at midnight. The 
>archives and cguys.org include posts from yesterday and today. I have 
>email today from friends and other subscriptions. Is it my email, ISP, 
>or AOL? Ghosts? thx

We are still here and chattering away. Monday and today have been a 
little slow. Your membership is active and not on the bounce list. Maybe 
the spooks reading overseas emails are falling behind because too many 
took August off?


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Re: [CGUYS] Important Information Regarding Changes to Your Verizon Online Terms Of Service

[mike]

Why couldn't they do it before?

On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 12:09 PM, Brian Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> Could it be music, movies, video game DVD's, etc.?
> Sounds like they want to sniff your data stream (and make you agree to it).
>
>  - Brian
>
> - Original Message - From: "b_s-wilk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>
>> Besides child pornography, which can be very subjective, what are they
>> looking for? Does this include anything on their user sites, and Verizon
>> email, and any other email? Will they also block news groups like other ISPs
>> have done?
>>
>> Or maybe they're telling us now what they've already been doing all along.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Betty
>>
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Important Information Regarding Changes to Your Verizon Online Terms Of Service

[Brian Jones]

Could it be music, movies, video game DVD's, etc.?
Sounds like they want to sniff your data stream (and make you agree to it).

  - Brian

- Original Message - 
From: "b_s-wilk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>





Besides child pornography, which can be very subjective, what are they 
looking for? Does this include anything on their user sites, and Verizon 
email, and any other email? Will they also block news groups like other 
ISPs have done?


Or maybe they're telling us now what they've already been doing all along.

Thanks,
Betty



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Re: [CGUYS] Important Information Regarding Changes to Your Verizon Online Terms Of Service

[Tony B]

Actually, Verizon was one of the first to cave. They deleted all their
binary newsgroups a while back. A real hit for their customers, as it
was one of the best free servers around.

The list has been slow a couple days, with only the occasional note
coming through, check your spambox. But you haven't missed anything.


On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 1:38 PM, b_s-wilk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Besides child pornography, which can be very subjective, what are they
> looking for? Does this include anything on their user sites, and Verizon
> email, and any other email? Will they also block news groups like other ISPs
> have done?
>
> Or maybe they're telling us now what they've already been doing all along.
>
> Thanks,
> Betty
>
> p.s. I haven't received any CGUYs posts since Sunday at midnight. The
> archives and cguys.org include posts from yesterday and today. I have email
> today from friends and other subscriptions. Is it my email, ISP, or AOL?
> Ghosts? thx


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[CGUYS] Important Information Regarding Changes to Your Verizon Online Terms Of Service

[b_s-wilk]

I received an email from Verizon about changes in TOS. One item is:

"4. Modifications to AUP.  We have added language to our AUP making 
clear (a) that we may monitor our subscribers' compliance with our Terms 
of Service and AUP; and (b) that we have the right, but not the 
obligation, to pre-screen, refuse, move or remove any content available 
on the Service including, but not limited to, content that violates the 
law, our Terms of Service or our AUP."


AUP = ACCEPTABLE USE POLICY

Besides child pornography, which can be very subjective, what are they 
looking for? Does this include anything on their user sites, and 
Verizon email, and any other email? Will they also block news groups 
like other ISPs have done?


Or maybe they're telling us now what they've already been doing all along.

Thanks,
Betty

p.s. I haven't received any CGUYs posts since Sunday at midnight. The 
archives and cguys.org include posts from yesterday and today. I have 
email today from friends and other subscriptions. Is it my email, ISP, 
or AOL? Ghosts? thx



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Re: [CGUYS] What we actually get for our money...

[b_s-wilk]

Naiveté is the attitude that the government is bad or can't do things 
right. It's neither all bad nor all good--depends on the people involved 
in that government, the strengths of checks and balances, and open 
media/press to report on it. Of course I remember fruitcake JEdgar 
Hoover's spying, and CIA's LSD experiments, and open air testing of 
atomic bombs in St. George, Utah. I also remember General Westmoreland 
lying about Viet Nam.


However, the government also funded medical research to wipe out polio, 
and to develop and distribute influenza vaccine to people who need it. 
Government money also sent astronauts to the moon and the space lab, and 
sent two robots to Mars on a 90-day exploratory geological mission in 
2003 that is still ongoing nearly 5 years later.


The public-private partnerships that created satellite communications 
were necessary advancements that couldn't have been done at the time [or 
now] by private corporations. Same for Arpanet and the Internet. Same 
for the monopolies that exist in cable and telco broadband that allow 
them to set rates based on whatever they can get away with instead of 
letting the market determine rates with competition, or providing 
quality broadband service [and choice] without gouging the customers, as 
it is today. Of course businesses exist to provide products and services 
at a profit, but without competition and subisidies, most tend to take 
advantage of that position at the expense of the customers.


Betty


Good to see that you admit you were sleeping in class while the
government was doing good things for the public, instead of spying on
us.


The level of  is rarely seen in nature, since as you approach such a
fact-free vacuum, subjects usually implode.

We must have both slept through different history classes.  Where you awake
when the instructor went over J. Edger Hoover spying on Martin Luther King
and thousands of others he suspected of being unpatriotic?  Congress holding
hearings and smearing the reputation of anyone suspected of having communist
leanings, whether it were true or not?  The CIA experimenting with LSD on
soldiers without their knowledge or consent?  The Tuskegee syphilis
experiment, where govt. scientists allowed black men unknowingly infected
with the disease go untreated to see how the disease progressed?  Conducting
open-air biological experiments over populated areas and within public
facilities?  A president lying about ships being attacked in SE Asian gulfs,
the US Military dumping thousands of gallons of Agent Orange in Viet Nam
knowing the health effects, etc, etc.

No thanks. I don't need your brand of good things.



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Re: [CGUYS] is it RAID?

[mike]

And still no answer...shocking.


On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 6:19 AM, Tom Piwowar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> >Stick and move, Tom...you post only part of my msg avoiding the meat.  So,
> >here is one more try to get an answer from you.
>
> I think you read only part of what is posted so it does not disturb your
> faith.
>
> RAID mirrors only protect against one type of failure (drive failure).
> This is the least likely type of failure and as drives' MTBF march
> upwards this type of failure becomes less and less likely. Meanwhile,
> RAID does nothing for the most likely types of data-loss errors: soft
> errors in the volume organization and data base structure.
>
> RAID gives a false sense of security and is often used by IT managers to
> avoid the real work of keeping the valuables secure.
>
>
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[CGUYS] Moving Outlook Express Messages to Windows Mail

[Rosenberg, Alan [USA]]

Thanks to all who offered suggestions. There's a concise and completely
accurate description of how to move messages stored in OE6 format to
Windows Mail when OE is not available on
http://www.oehelp.com/backup.aspx (disclaimer -- I have no interests in
this site or its owner). Here's the process:
 
OE dbx files cannot be individually imported into Windows Mail. Windows
Mail will only import (File | Import | Messages) from dbx files in an
intact message store that contains a non-corrupt version of folders.dbx
(note that the files MUST NOT be read only). In order to import dbx
files into Windows Mail, they must first be incorporated into an Outlook
Express (or possibly Outlook) message store and then imported using File
| Import | Messages. 

To import from the Outlook Express message store into the Windows Mail
message store, do the following: 

1. Create a directory under the current user's Documents, such
as Documents\OEMail. This directory needs to be within the user's space,
such as under Documents, in order to prevent possible access permissions
problems.
2. Copy all the dbx files from one Outlook Express Identity into
this directory, ensuring that folders.dbx is included.
3. Go to Edit | Select all in Windows Explorer and select all
the dbx files. Then right click on the selection and choose Properties
and ensure that the read only attribute of the files is unchecked.
4. In Windows Mail go to File | Import Messages and choose
Outlook Express 6 format and choose to import from a directory. 
5. Then use the Browse button to browse to the directory of dbx
files. Make sure that when you set the directory that what is listed in
the path is correct (NOTE: Vista can put the wrong path in here
sometimes, so instead of c:\mypath it puts c:\mypath\mypath, so check
the path to verify that it is correct, and if it is not correct then fix
it by clicking the Browse button a second time and then leave the
selection blank and clicking Okay.).
6. Then select the files from which you wish to import messages
and click Import. 

Alan
 
 

 



From: Computer Guys Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of COMPUTERGUYS-L
automatic digest system
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 12:00 AM
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: COMPUTERGUYS-L Digest - 17 Aug 2008 to 18 Aug 2008 (#2008-524)




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Re: [CGUYS] COMPUTERGUYS-L Digest - 14 Aug 2008 to 15 Aug 2008

[Chris Dunford]

> >.PST files are Outlook, not Outlook Express.  Express files are *.DBX.
> 
> Going from one flavor of Outlook to another can be a real mess. 
> MS offers little compatability and little help. Different versions 
> of Outlook do different things.

Well, I guess you could argue that point of view, but I would note that
Outlook Express and Outlook aren't really different flavors of Outlook,
they're completely different programs. The naming was unfortunate, and MS
did finally rename Outlook Express to WinMail in Vista.

I've never had a compatibility problem when updating Outlook itself.


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Re: [CGUYS] is it RAID?

[Tom Piwowar]

>Stick and move, Tom...you post only part of my msg avoiding the meat.  So,
>here is one more try to get an answer from you.

I think you read only part of what is posted so it does not disturb your 
faith.

RAID mirrors only protect against one type of failure (drive failure). 
This is the least likely type of failure and as drives' MTBF march 
upwards this type of failure becomes less and less likely. Meanwhile, 
RAID does nothing for the most likely types of data-loss errors: soft 
errors in the volume organization and data base structure.

RAID gives a false sense of security and is often used by IT managers to 
avoid the real work of keeping the valuables secure.


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Re: [CGUYS] COMPUTERGUYS-L Digest - 14 Aug 2008 to 15 Aug 2008

[Tom Piwowar]

>.PST files are Outlook, not Outlook Express.  Express files are *.DBX.

Going from one flavor of Outlook to another can be a real mess. MS offers 
little compatability and little help. Different versions of Outlook do 
different things. Sometimes the best solution is to take emails through a 
non-MS email client to get to a format that you can import.


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Re: [CGUYS] COMPUTERGUYS-L Digest - 14 Aug 2008 to 15 Aug 2008 - Special issue (#2008-514)

[Chris Dunford]

> > Where are Outlook Express messages and folder info located? 

> Search the old drive for all the .PST files.

.PST files are Outlook, not Outlook Express.  Express files are *.DBX.


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