[CGUYS] M$ vs. iPad, M$ Bows Out

[t.piwowar]

Microsoft Says 'Courier' Tablet Project Shelved for Now - WSJ.com
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704302304575214692513583532.html?mod=rss_personal_technology

I'm not at all surprised.




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Re: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?

[t.piwowar]

On Apr 29, 2010, at 9:51 PM, Eric S. Sande wrote:

Seen 'em, thanks.  But you do realize that contrary to your statement
what you suggest IS legal where you live.


Generally, people who live in NoVa don't consider themselves residents  
of Virginia and feel shamed when reminded. I don't even own a 'coon hat.



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Re: [CGUYS] Some of you will find this tragic

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

And the whole punches make wonderful confetti (eco confetti) for weddings.

Stewart


At 09:11 PM 4/29/2010, you wrote:
You can use them to make lovely wreaths, too. Although, used ones 
(with punched holes) look a little better.


At 8:08 PM -0500 4/29/10, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:


Tom just put them on your bicycle they make a wonderful noise when you ride.

Stewart


At 08:03 PM 4/29/2010, you wrote:

On Apr 29, 2010, at 8:00 PM, Robert Carroll wrote:

I still have some important punch cards.  Most of them are in the
right order.


Me too. And several cartons unused. What am I offered for 2000 cards
in pristine condition?


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--
Roger
Lovettsville, VA


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Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] Some of you will find this tragic

[Roger D. Parish]

You can use them to make lovely wreaths, too. Although, used ones 
(with punched holes) look a little better.


At 8:08 PM -0500 4/29/10, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:


Tom just put them on your bicycle they make a wonderful noise when you ride.

Stewart


At 08:03 PM 4/29/2010, you wrote:

On Apr 29, 2010, at 8:00 PM, Robert Carroll wrote:

I still have some important punch cards.  Most of them are in the
right order.


Me too. And several cartons unused. What am I offered for 2000 cards
in pristine condition?


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--
Roger
Lovettsville, VA


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Re: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?

[phartz...@gmail.com]

On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 5:37 PM, tjpa  wrote:

> You keep insisting that Apple should not do product testing. Where did you
> get such an idea? Microsoft?

  Let's not be silly or intentionally inaccurate when describing what
another poster wrote.  I never said that Apple Corp. should not do any
product testing and you know I didn't.

  Apple WAS doing product testing in that very bar full of geeks who
always check out what everybody else is using.  The phone was
intentionally left laying around, begging to be taken, because Apple
Corp. was trying to find out how enticing their product was to jealous
and inquisitive potential thieves.  Apple Corp. was getting to be a
bit apprehensive about whether or not their phone was the coolest and
most sought after such device in the entire world these days.  After
all, they are getting some decent competition lately from other
makers, and Apple's worry meter was beginning to deflect in the wrong
direction according to their marketing department.

  Apple Corp. also wanted to test the effectiveness and threat level
impact that the Rapid Enforcement Allied Computer Team would have on
citizens who would dare to breach the inviolate sanctity of the Steve
Jobs Aura Emissions Sphere of Marketing Efficacy and Behavioral
Attitude Adjustment Scheme of the Holy Black Turtle Neck Sweater
Brigade.  Cops usually do not smash down doors that will cost them
more to replace than the item in question is worth, especially when
said item had already been returned to its rightful owner.  See Jon
Stewart for more on this.

  Steve


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Re: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?

[Eric S. Sande]

I do. Wanna see my collection of assault weapons and cruise missiles?


Seen 'em, thanks.  But you do realize that contrary to your statement
what you suggest IS legal where you live.

http://vaguninfo.com/pages/opencarry.htm

The fact that most people don't do it has nothing to do with whether it's
legal or not, in the Commonwealth, which it is.

But practically speaking, people don't usually do it.  It's legal for 
employers

to forbid weapons on company property, etc.

It's a complex equation.  I COULD walk into a mall in Arlington with an
M1911A1 on my hip, legally.  Or into a convenience store in Galax.

But I'd only do it to make a point.  That is to prove you know nothing
about gun law :-).

Frankly, would you want to tote 3 pounds of steel around to make a point?

I didn't think so.  Reasonable people make reasonable choices.  Not
unreasonable statements of quasi-misunderstood "fact".

But you have the Commonwealth's permission to wear unregistered iron
(openly) anywhere you like inside its boundaries.  Somehow I think the 
criminals there have been apprised of this.


You can also get a concealed carry permit without too much hoop
jumping but you'll have to prove you know the laws, aren't a criminal,
and aren't insane.

Apologies, but this falls within technology and law.


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Re: [CGUYS] Some of you will find this tragic

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

Tom just put them on your bicycle they make a wonderful noise when you ride.

Stewart


At 08:03 PM 4/29/2010, you wrote:

On Apr 29, 2010, at 8:00 PM, Robert Carroll wrote:

I still have some important punch cards.  Most of them are in the
right order.


Me too. And several cartons unused. What am I offered for 2000 cards
in pristine condition?


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Re: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

Tom having lived in the said communities most of my ministry I know 
the statistics.


Just not true.

Oh and they have a lot more firearms than you can count.  Most of it 
long barrel not short barrel.


Stewart


At 08:01 PM 4/29/2010, you wrote:

On Apr 29, 2010, at 6:36 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:

I believe that statistics show that the suicide rate increases the
higher density the population.


That's reported suicides. When nobody notices it doesn't get reported.
The sun just bleaches your bones.


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Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?

[tjpa]

On Apr 29, 2010, at 6:43 PM, Eric S. Sande wrote:

Why did I think you lived in VA?


I do. Wanna see my collection of assault weapons and cruise missiles?


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Re: [CGUYS] Some of you will find this tragic

[tjpa]

On Apr 29, 2010, at 8:00 PM, Robert Carroll wrote:
I still have some important punch cards.  Most of them are in the  
right order.


Me too. And several cartons unused. What am I offered for 2000 cards  
in pristine condition?



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Re: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?

[tjpa]

On Apr 29, 2010, at 6:36 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:
I believe that statistics show that the suicide rate increases the  
higher density the population.


That's reported suicides. When nobody notices it doesn't get reported.  
The sun just bleaches your bones.



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Re: [CGUYS] Some of you will find this tragic

[Robert Carroll]

I still have some important punch cards.  Most of them are in the right 
order.


Paula Minor wrote:
s actually up and running on a working, plugged-in DOS machine.  But 
then, I'm a total pack rat.


I'm a pack rat too.  I'll be holding on to my zip and floppy 
drivesjust in case. They don't take up much space.



Paula Minor
raven880atindy.net





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Re: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?

[Eric S. Sande]

We also do not let people walk around the streets with loaded 
guns or let anyone with a card table freely sell firearms.


Why did I think you lived in VA?


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Re: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

I believe that statistics show that the suicide rate increases the 
higher density the population.


Also during highly stressed conditions.

Stewart


At 05:22 PM 4/29/2010, you wrote:

Do your research before you flap your gums.

WRONG!

Stewart


At 05:11 PM 4/29/2010, you wrote:

On Apr 29, 2010, at 12:56 PM, mike wrote:

That's why the murder rate in DC is one of the highest in the country.
Places where people walk around with guns is safer than those places
who
don't.


Towns with pop 10 usually do have lower murder rates, prolly have
higher suicide rates though. What about it?


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Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

Do your research before you flap your gums.

WRONG!

Stewart


At 05:11 PM 4/29/2010, you wrote:

On Apr 29, 2010, at 12:56 PM, mike wrote:

That's why the murder rate in DC is one of the highest in the country.
Places where people walk around with guns is safer than those places
who
don't.


Towns with pop 10 usually do have lower murder rates, prolly have
higher suicide rates though. What about it?


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Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?

[tjpa]

On Apr 29, 2010, at 12:56 PM, mike wrote:

That's why the murder rate in DC is one of the highest in the country.
Places where people walk around with guns is safer than those places  
who

don't.


Towns with pop 10 usually do have lower murder rates, prolly have  
higher suicide rates though. What about it?



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Re: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?

[mike]

Yes that's exactly what Steve said, zero product testing, none, zip...the
phone should stay in the clean room up until delivered.

To the rest of us Steve said you probably don't need to test your product in
the lions den and maybe taking it to a grocery store, out on the
street...maybe a five and dime shop could be enough.

On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 2:37 PM, tjpa  wrote:

> On Apr 29, 2010, at 2:33 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> None of this whole affair is devoid of wrongness, in my humble
>> opinion.  I think it was wrongheaded for an Apple Corp. insider to
>> take a highly secretive prototype iPhone into an establishment well
>> known for being a watering hole that caters greatly to and is usually
>> crammed with computer geeks
>>
>
> You keep insisting that Apple should not do product testing. Where did you
> get such an idea? Microsoft?
>
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?

[tjpa]

On Apr 29, 2010, at 2:33 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote:

None of this whole affair is devoid of wrongness, in my humble
opinion.  I think it was wrongheaded for an Apple Corp. insider to
take a highly secretive prototype iPhone into an establishment well
known for being a watering hole that caters greatly to and is usually
crammed with computer geeks


You keep insisting that Apple should not do product testing. Where did  
you get such an idea? Microsoft?



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Re: [CGUYS] Free advertising [was: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?]

[mike]

Frequently?  Name the last Apple product that was accidentally released.

On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 1:20 PM, b_s-wilk  wrote:

> The thing is, Apple has never liked this kind of noise.  They like noise
>> they control.  And at this point, if this guy gets fired it would make the
>> evening news.
>>
>
> Any noise is free publicity. Controlled noise is better.
>
> Have you ever done marketing or advertising? There are many ways to keep
> potential customers excited about a new product that don't involve direct
> advertising or product placement. "Accidental" releases happen frequently.
>
>
>
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[CGUYS] skyfire android web browser

[mike]

http://www.skyfire.com/

Available from the android store, beta version of the browser.  I downloaded
and installed and it seems quicker than dolphin or the built in browser,
nice UI and features.


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Re: [CGUYS] Free advertising [was: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?]

[b_s-wilk]

The thing is, Apple has never liked this kind of noise.  They like noise
they control.  And at this point, if this guy gets fired it would make the
evening news.


Any noise is free publicity. Controlled noise is better.

Have you ever done marketing or advertising? There are many ways to keep 
potential customers excited about a new product that don't involve 
direct advertising or product placement. "Accidental" releases happen 
frequently.



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Re: [CGUYS] Free advertising [was: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?]

[Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS)]

And I am already tuning out of this.

Thank you, 
Mark Snyder 

-Original Message-

The entire iPhone prototype adventure--"Lost"--can't be too serious to 
Apple. Otherwise they would have fired the guy who lost it. Just like 
the TV show, there's lots of confusing twists, and both versions will 
end soon.

The product isn't scheduled for release yet. On CGUYS list alone this 
thread has now over 60 comments--at no cost to Apple Inc--with many more 
on other sites/lists. Any noise is good noise.

FWIW, iPhone OS 4 will be released in early summer. AT&T Wireless store 
employees were told not to plan any vacations in June, supposedly in 
anticipation of new products.


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Re: [CGUYS] Free advertising [was: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?]

[mike]

The thing is, Apple has never liked this kind of noise.  They like noise
they control.  And at this point, if this guy gets fired it would make the
evening news.

J months are usually the months you look for this stuff.

On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 11:43 AM, b_s-wilk  wrote:

>
>> I doubt Steve would agree with you.
>>
>>
>>> but Powell  is arguably the more aggrieved party.
>>>
>>
>
> The entire iPhone prototype adventure--"Lost"--can't be too serious to
> Apple. Otherwise they would have fired the guy who lost it. Just like the TV
> show, there's lots of confusing twists, and both versions will end soon.
>
> The product isn't scheduled for release yet. On CGUYS list alone this
> thread has now over 60 comments--at no cost to Apple Inc--with many more on
> other sites/lists. Any noise is good noise.
>
> FWIW, iPhone OS 4 will be released in early summer. AT&T Wireless store
> employees were told not to plan any vacations in June, supposedly in
> anticipation of new products.
>
>
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[CGUYS] Free advertising [was: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?]

[b_s-wilk]

I doubt Steve would agree with you.



but Powell  is arguably the more aggrieved party.



The entire iPhone prototype adventure--"Lost"--can't be too serious to 
Apple. Otherwise they would have fired the guy who lost it. Just like 
the TV show, there's lots of confusing twists, and both versions will 
end soon.


The product isn't scheduled for release yet. On CGUYS list alone this 
thread has now over 60 comments--at no cost to Apple Inc--with many more 
on other sites/lists. Any noise is good noise.


FWIW, iPhone OS 4 will be released in early summer. AT&T Wireless store 
employees were told not to plan any vacations in June, supposedly in 
anticipation of new products.



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Re: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?

[phartz...@gmail.com]

On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 2:06 PM, David K Watson
 wrote:

> OK, so supposedly Apple sent folks over to the guy's house to
> demand he give them back the phone, but he wasn't there, so
> he didn't. Then presumably having heard about this from his
> roommate who was there, he nonetheless sells the iPhone to
> Gizmodo.
>
> It still looks wrong to me.  PC World reports this part of the
> story as "unconfirmed" by the way, not as a fact.

  None of this whole affair is devoid of wrongness, in my humble
opinion.  I think it was wrongheaded for an Apple Corp. insider to
take a highly secretive prototype iPhone into an establishment well
known for being a watering hole that caters greatly to and is usually
crammed with computer geeks.  Everyone involved in the possession of
that phone after it was taken from the bar were a bunch of money
grubbers, so gaga over technology that they lost sight of almost all
reason.  I say a big thumbs down on all of them as far as sensibility
is concerned.  If those folks represent who is at the core of
technology today, we may all be in deep doo da.

  Steve


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[CGUYS] How to Opt Out of Facebook’s Instant Person alization | Electronic Frontier Foundation

[b_s-wilk]

Facebook needs to make money. Is Instant Persalization a good way? EFF 
doesn't like it.


"Friday morning Facebook changed its privacy settings layout, making it 
a bit more challenging to opt out completely. As before, unchecking the 
"Allow" box is not sufficient because you need to block each Instant 
Personalization website to fully opt out. However, the previous path 
(via "Learn More") to the necessary Block Application buttons was 
removed, with Facebook suggesting instead you first go to the sites (at 
which point your information is disclosed)..."


http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/04/how-opt-out-facebook-s-instant-personalization


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Re: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?

[phartz...@gmail.com]

On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 1:57 PM, David K Watson
 wrote:

> As to Apple's involvement, it looks like Apple didn't file the theft
> report.  Powell did, with the support of his employer's legal staff.
> True, Apple clearly wanted the matter to be pursued, but Powell
> is arguably the more aggrieved party.

  The more aggrieved party?  Can you explain that, please.  Mr. Powell
apparently faces no recriminations from his employer over this matter.
 How is he so aggrieved?  I would suspect that Apple Corp. simply
wanted to keep their name out of the matter to all extents possible,
as is typically the case with any corporation.

  Steve


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Re: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?

[mike]

Bottom line is, we know Giz and the guy who sold the phone knew Powell had
lost it and could have contacted him.  They chose not to.  Like I said
before, Calacanis's take on this is everyone involved is either an idiot or
a dick, there are no innocents here...I like that version myself.

On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 11:06 AM, David K Watson
wrote:

> OK, so supposedly Apple sent folks over to the guy's house to
> demand he give them back the phone, but he wasn't there, so
> he didn't. Then presumably having heard about this from his
> roommate who was there, he nonetheless sells the iPhone to
> Gizmodo.
>
> It still looks wrong to me.  PC World reports this part of the
> story as "unconfirmed" by the way, not as a fact.
>
>
> On Apr 29, 2010, at 12:00 AM, COMPUTERGUYS-L automatic digest system wrote:
> > phartz...@gmail.com
> > Thu, 29 Apr 2010 06:13:28 -0700
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 1:35 AM, t.piwowar  wrote:
> >
> > > Apple sent folks over to the guy's house to demand he give them back
> the
> > > phone.  He didn't.
> >
> >   Let's do get the facts straight.  The PCWorld article you referenced
> > was drawing upon another story that appeared in Wired Magazine.
> >
> >   The representatives from Apple Corp, who went to the home of the
> > person alleged to have been in possession of the phone, were not able
> > to confront the person they were looking for.  When they arrived, the
> > individual they were interested in was not there.  His roommate was,
> > and it was he who answered the knock on the door.  The Apple Corp.
> > folks demanded that they be allowed to enter and search the house, but
> > the roommate refused their demand because the person of interest was
> > not present.  I would have done the same thing in that situation.  I
> > would never let any officially unauthorized persons search through the
> > belongings of someone who shared a house with me unless I had been
> > specifically told by that individual to allow it.
> >
> >   Those Apple representatives apparently never made another attempt to
> > recover the phone at that address.
> >
> >   Additionally, it was at first denied by the San Mateo Police that
> > Apple ever had any hand in the raid and search of the premises in
> > question.  We now know that to have been untrue, and a silly thing for
> > the authorities to have said in the first place.  At a minimum, Apple
> > would have had to have filed a theft report, and since Apple already
> > knew where the phone was alleged to be located, they would have
> > provided that information to police.  That is called having a hand in
> > the execution of the search.  I am not casting aspersions toward Apple
> > Corp. in this instance, but I do wonder why the San Mateo Police were
> > initially trying to hide the fact that Apple Corp. was involved in the
> > execution of the search.  Perhaps because Apple is a corporate partner
> > (consultant) with them?
> >
> >   Steve
> >
> >
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?

[mike]

I doubt Steve would agree with you.

On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 10:57 AM, David K Watson
wrote:

>

but Powell  is arguably the more aggrieved party.
>
>


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Re: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?

[David K Watson]

OK, so supposedly Apple sent folks over to the guy's house to 
demand he give them back the phone, but he wasn't there, so 
he didn't. Then presumably having heard about this from his 
roommate who was there, he nonetheless sells the iPhone to 
Gizmodo.

It still looks wrong to me.  PC World reports this part of the 
story as "unconfirmed" by the way, not as a fact.  


On Apr 29, 2010, at 12:00 AM, COMPUTERGUYS-L automatic digest system wrote:
> phartz...@gmail.com
> Thu, 29 Apr 2010 06:13:28 -0700
> 
> On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 1:35 AM, t.piwowar  wrote:
> 
> > Apple sent folks over to the guy's house to demand he give them back the
> > phone.  He didn't.
> 
>   Let's do get the facts straight.  The PCWorld article you referenced
> was drawing upon another story that appeared in Wired Magazine.
> 
>   The representatives from Apple Corp, who went to the home of the
> person alleged to have been in possession of the phone, were not able
> to confront the person they were looking for.  When they arrived, the
> individual they were interested in was not there.  His roommate was,
> and it was he who answered the knock on the door.  The Apple Corp.
> folks demanded that they be allowed to enter and search the house, but
> the roommate refused their demand because the person of interest was
> not present.  I would have done the same thing in that situation.  I
> would never let any officially unauthorized persons search through the
> belongings of someone who shared a house with me unless I had been
> specifically told by that individual to allow it.
> 
>   Those Apple representatives apparently never made another attempt to
> recover the phone at that address.
> 
>   Additionally, it was at first denied by the San Mateo Police that
> Apple ever had any hand in the raid and search of the premises in
> question.  We now know that to have been untrue, and a silly thing for
> the authorities to have said in the first place.  At a minimum, Apple
> would have had to have filed a theft report, and since Apple already
> knew where the phone was alleged to be located, they would have
> provided that information to police.  That is called having a hand in
> the execution of the search.  I am not casting aspersions toward Apple
> Corp. in this instance, but I do wonder why the San Mateo Police were
> initially trying to hide the fact that Apple Corp. was involved in the
> execution of the search.  Perhaps because Apple is a corporate partner
> (consultant) with them?
> 
>   Steve
> 
> 


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Re: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?

[David K Watson]

Additionally, there is a difference between the police denying 
that Apple had any part in the raid and their simply being silent 
on the matter until they made an official statement, which appears 
to be what actually happened.  

As to Apple's involvement, it looks like Apple didn't file the theft 
report.  Powell did, with the support of his employer's legal staff.  
True, Apple clearly wanted the matter to be pursued, but Powell 
is arguably the more aggrieved party. 

> From:tjpa 
> Subject: Re: illegal search warrant?
> 
> On Apr 29, 2010, at 8:56 AM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Additionally, it was at first denied by the San Mateo Police that
>> Apple ever had any hand in the raid and search of the premises in
>> question.  We now know that to have been untrue, and a silly thing for
>> the authorities to have said in the first place.  At a minimum, Apple
>> would have had to have filed a theft report, and since Apple already
>> knew where the phone was alleged to be located, they would have
>> provided that information to police.  That is called having a hand in
>> the execution of the search.  I am not casting aspersions toward Apple
>> Corp. in this instance, but I do wonder why the San Mateo Police were
>> initially trying to hide the fact that Apple Corp. was involved in the
>> execution of the search.  Perhaps because Apple is a corporate partner
>> (consultant) with them?
> 
> In my town the names of crime victims and witnesses are not given out  
> by the police. We also do not let people walk around the streets with  
> loaded guns or let anyone with a card table freely sell firearms.  
> Probably much different in your town.
> 


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Re: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?

[phartz...@gmail.com]

On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 12:49 PM, tjpa  wrote:

> On Apr 29, 2010, at 11:23 AM, David K Watson wrote:
>>
>> Whether the police were within the law in executing their warrant
>> is a matter of dispute, but even if being a blogger makes Jason
>> Chen a journalist, there is already some legal precedent that
>> shield laws can't be used to enable journalists to hide their own
>> criminal behavior. Details here:
>> 
>
> Thank you for a logical and factual account.

  Yeah, well, I think it was the W. Bush administration that decided
to go this route with journalists.  For instance, this means that
journalists, who receive information from persons who have violated
their job related legal proscriptions from divulging information, can
be prosecuted as a result of providing said information to the public.
 If proscribed information is passed on to a reporter, even if that
information proves that illegal activities have taken place, the
recipient of that information can be held legally liable for
disseminating that information.  Nice arrangement, isn't it?

  Steve


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Re: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?

[phartz...@gmail.com]

On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 12:46 PM, tjpa  wrote:

> In my town the names of crime victims and witnesses are not given out by the
> police.

   What?  No one suspected that Apple Corp. was the claimant here?

  All that the police said initially was that Apple Corp. did not have
a hand in the processes involving the warrant to do a search.  That
statement, in and of itself, does not mean that Apple Corp. was the
complainant, yet in the final analysis, Apple was identified as being
involved in the warrant process, complainant or victim or neither.

  Steve


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Re: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?

[mike]

http://mashable.com/2010/04/29/jon-stewart-apple/

The definitive take on the issue.

On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 9:57 AM, David K Watson
wrote:

> > That is not a fair or accurate comparison.
> >
>
> How is it not a fair comparison?  A running car in a convenience
> store parking lot has the presumption that the owner will return
> to it very quickly, while a phone that has been left unclaimed for a few
> hours does not, but that has no bearing on the actions of someone
> who takes either one knowing that it isn't theirs and eventually
> sells it to someone else who also knows this.
>
> Stripped to the bare essentials, we have:
>
> A) Guy takes physical possession of misplaced valuable item
> that is not his
> B) Well before he could think it reverts to him, guy sells
> item to someone who also knows the item is not his.
>
>
> On Apr 28, 2010, at 11:36 PM, COMPUTERGUYS-L automatic digest system wrote:
>
> > From:"Rev. Stewart Marshall" 
> > Subject: Re: illegal search warrant?
> >
> > That is not a fair or accurate comparison.
> >
> > Stewart
> >
> >
> > At 09:17 PM 4/28/2010, you wrote:
> >> You can personally feel that Apple was foolish in how they let the
> >> phone be stolen, but that has absolutely no legal bearing on its
> >> theft.
> >>
> >> There are still people who are foolish enough to leave their car
> >> running and unlocked when they go into a convenience store,
> >> but if the car gets stolen, the thief can't plead this as an extenuating
> >> circumstance if he or she gets caught.
> >
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Some of you will find this tragic

[mike]

Safe to say...you would need cases.  Imagine the horror of reinstalling an
OS off floppies...now imagine trying to watch the 8 gig rip of iron man off
floppy.

On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 9:42 AM, b_s-wilk  wrote:

> I transferred data from all of my floppy disks to Zips, then CDs over a
> dozen years ago, then to DVD, gave most of them away, but still have a few
> to use with my ancient computers. Problem is that my Mac SE has a broken
> floppy drive--only works on a network; makes a better museum piece.
>
> I went to Ollie's  yesterday to see if they
> had any good DVD-RW disks left [they didn't], but they had several cases of
> floppy disks--CHEAP.
>
> Floppies have been effectively obsolete for over 15 years. My 1GB flash
> drive is obsolete. I bought a Toshiba 40GB 1.8" microdrive for $25 last
> week--and it's obsolete, otherwise it wouldn't be so cheap! How many floppy
> disks do you need to hold one commercial movie?
>
> Betty
>
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?

[David K Watson]

> That is not a fair or accurate comparison.
> 

How is it not a fair comparison?  A running car in a convenience 
store parking lot has the presumption that the owner will return 
to it very quickly, while a phone that has been left unclaimed for a few 
hours does not, but that has no bearing on the actions of someone 
who takes either one knowing that it isn't theirs and eventually 
sells it to someone else who also knows this.  

Stripped to the bare essentials, we have:  

A) Guy takes physical possession of misplaced valuable item 
that is not his
B) Well before he could think it reverts to him, guy sells 
item to someone who also knows the item is not his.  


On Apr 28, 2010, at 11:36 PM, COMPUTERGUYS-L automatic digest system wrote:

> From:"Rev. Stewart Marshall" 
> Subject: Re: illegal search warrant?
> 
> That is not a fair or accurate comparison.
> 
> Stewart
> 
> 
> At 09:17 PM 4/28/2010, you wrote:
>> You can personally feel that Apple was foolish in how they let the
>> phone be stolen, but that has absolutely no legal bearing on its
>> theft.
>> 
>> There are still people who are foolish enough to leave their car
>> running and unlocked when they go into a convenience store,
>> but if the car gets stolen, the thief can't plead this as an extenuating
>> circumstance if he or she gets caught.
> 


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Re: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?

[mike]

That's why the murder rate in DC is one of the highest in the country.
Places where people walk around with guns is safer than those places who
don't.

I see you've devolved into 'no facts for you' mode and will now not answer
for any of your previous misstatements.  Just keep tossing it on the wall
and maybe some will stick.

On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 9:46 AM, tjpa  wrote:

> On Apr 29, 2010, at 8:56 AM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Additionally, it was at first denied by the San Mateo Police that
>> Apple ever had any hand in the raid and search of the premises in
>> question.  We now know that to have been untrue, and a silly thing for
>> the authorities to have said in the first place.  At a minimum, Apple
>> would have had to have filed a theft report, and since Apple already
>> knew where the phone was alleged to be located, they would have
>> provided that information to police.  That is called having a hand in
>> the execution of the search.  I am not casting aspersions toward Apple
>> Corp. in this instance, but I do wonder why the San Mateo Police were
>> initially trying to hide the fact that Apple Corp. was involved in the
>> execution of the search.  Perhaps because Apple is a corporate partner
>> (consultant) with them?
>>
>
> In my town the names of crime victims and witnesses are not given out by
> the police. We also do not let people walk around the streets with loaded
> guns or let anyone with a card table freely sell firearms. Probably much
> different in your town.
>
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?

[tjpa]

On Apr 29, 2010, at 11:23 AM, David K Watson wrote:

Whether the police were within the law in executing their warrant
is a matter of dispute, but even if being a blogger makes Jason
Chen a journalist, there is already some legal precedent that
shield laws can't be used to enable journalists to hide their own
criminal behavior. Details here:



Thank you for a logical and factual account.


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Re: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?

[tjpa]

On Apr 29, 2010, at 5:06 AM, Jeff Miles wrote:
	And how is this different then today? When I call in a crime I just  
get a case number for the insurance company.


You must have a bunch of tea baggers running your city council.


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Re: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?

[tjpa]

On Apr 29, 2010, at 8:56 AM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote:

Additionally, it was at first denied by the San Mateo Police that
Apple ever had any hand in the raid and search of the premises in
question.  We now know that to have been untrue, and a silly thing for
the authorities to have said in the first place.  At a minimum, Apple
would have had to have filed a theft report, and since Apple already
knew where the phone was alleged to be located, they would have
provided that information to police.  That is called having a hand in
the execution of the search.  I am not casting aspersions toward Apple
Corp. in this instance, but I do wonder why the San Mateo Police were
initially trying to hide the fact that Apple Corp. was involved in the
execution of the search.  Perhaps because Apple is a corporate partner
(consultant) with them?


In my town the names of crime victims and witnesses are not given out  
by the police. We also do not let people walk around the streets with  
loaded guns or let anyone with a card table freely sell firearms.  
Probably much different in your town.



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Re: [CGUYS] Some of you will find this tragic

[b_s-wilk]

I transferred data from all of my floppy disks to Zips, then CDs over a 
dozen years ago, then to DVD, gave most of them away, but still have a 
few to use with my ancient computers. Problem is that my Mac SE has a 
broken floppy drive--only works on a network; makes a better museum piece.


I went to Ollie's  yesterday to see if 
they had any good DVD-RW disks left [they didn't], but they had several 
cases of floppy disks--CHEAP.


Floppies have been effectively obsolete for over 15 years. My 1GB flash 
drive is obsolete. I bought a Toshiba 40GB 1.8" microdrive for $25 last 
week--and it's obsolete, otherwise it wouldn't be so cheap! How many 
floppy disks do you need to hold one commercial movie?


Betty


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Re: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?

[mike]

This is the problem...let's get the facts straight and then referenced is a
part of the article that is not confirmed...



On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 5:56 AM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 1:35 AM, t.piwowar  wrote:
>
> > Apple sent folks over to the guy's house to demand he give them back the
> > phone.  He didn't.
>
>   Let's do get the facts straight.  The PCWorld article you referenced
> was drawing upon another story that appeared in Wired Magazine.
>
>  The representatives from Apple Corp, who went to the home of the
> person alleged to have been in possession of the phone, were not able
> to confront the person they were looking for.  When they arrived, the
> individual they were interested in was not there.  His roommate was,
> and it was he who answered the knock on the door.  The Apple Corp.
> folks demanded that they be allowed to enter and search the house, but
> the roommate refused their demand because the person of interest was
> not present.  I would have done the same thing in that situation.  I
> would never let any officially unauthorized persons search through the
> belongings of someone who shared a house with me unless I had been
> specifically told by that individual to allow it.
>
>  Those Apple representatives apparently never made another attempt to
> recover the phone at that address.
>
>  Additionally, it was at first denied by the San Mateo Police that
> Apple ever had any hand in the raid and search of the premises in
> question.  We now know that to have been untrue, and a silly thing for
> the authorities to have said in the first place.  At a minimum, Apple
> would have had to have filed a theft report, and since Apple already
> knew where the phone was alleged to be located, they would have
> provided that information to police.  That is called having a hand in
> the execution of the search.  I am not casting aspersions toward Apple
> Corp. in this instance, but I do wonder why the San Mateo Police were
> initially trying to hide the fact that Apple Corp. was involved in the
> execution of the search.  Perhaps because Apple is a corporate partner
> (consultant) with them?
>
>  Steve
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?

[David K Watson]

I don't think you have the facts quite straight here.  Here is 
Gizmodo's own account of how they got the phone:  


According to this account, the phone was picked up at the bar 
by the person who was sitting next to Powell (the one who 
lost the phone) and not the bartender.  While the phone was 
still working and before he knew it was something out of the 
ordinary, the guy who found the phone discovered Powell's 
identity and took the phone home.  The next day, he realized 
the phone was a prototype, and the account says he contacted 
Apple about it, but strangely enough, he never tried to contact 
Powell, and apparently he didn't take it back to the bar to see if 
anyone had asked about it.  Several weeks later, he sells it to 
Gawker media.  After Gizmodo takes it apart and publishes an 
article about it, Apple asks for it back and they return it.  

So it wasn't found by a bartender, the person who found it 
discovered who it belonged to, he didn't make a very good faith 
effort to return it, and knowing it wasn't his he sold it to Gizmodo 
who also knew it wasn't his.  He had some legal cover while
he was making some kind of attempt to return the phone (however 
haphazard and clueless), but once he sold the phone to someone 
who also knew the phone wasn't his, both buyer and seller became 
crooks in the legal sense as well as ethically. The police decided to 
pursue this even after the phone was returned (either of their own 
volition or because Apple or Powell filed a complaint), and they 
had plenty of justification for doing so.  Just because a stolen 
item is returned, it doesn't negate the fact that it was stolen 
to begin with.  

Whether the police were within the law in executing their warrant 
is a matter of dispute, but even if being a blogger makes Jason 
Chen a journalist, there is already some legal precedent that 
shield laws can't be used to enable journalists to hide their own 
criminal behavior. Details here:  



On Apr 28, 2010, at 11:36 PM, COMPUTERGUYS-L automatic digest system wrote:

> From:Stewart Marshall 
> Subject: Re: illegal search warrant?
> 
> Lousy analogy Tom. You act as if you have not read any of what has 
> been written about this item.
> 
> The fact is the item was left by absent minded techie at bar.
> 
> Item was turned into bar tender who has no idea whose it is.(I 
> wonder how many folks had been there that night and had phones?)
> 
> Good faith attempts were made to return said item to Apple, but 
> because of Apples own compartmentalization no one knew what they were 
> talking about.
> 
> I cant remember how the Gizmodo guy got it at that point but he did, 
> he then did a review and took it apart analyzed etc. etc.
> 
> When he had it back together and working he sent it back.
> 
> It is only after the fact that they have raided the guys house and 
> not charged him with anything.  I wonder what the search warrant said?
> 
> You have to lay part of the blame here at Apple for being careless 
> with their tech stuff, and being a little paranoid.  This is not the 
> first time someone has lost a prototype and someone else got it to 
> look at and review.
> 
> This would make it one of the first times that the reviewer has been 
> criminalized for someone elses careless behavior.
> 
> Is the Gizmodo guy totally innocent here, I don't think so, but he 
> saw a chance to be one of the first to see review and look at a 
> prototype of Iphone.
> 
> But I also see Apple going over the top here and making themselves 
> look really really stupid and heavy handed.
> 
> Especially since they had the phone back already.
> 
> And I would venture to say if this had been a Windows Mobile 7 phone 
> that had had this happen to it, you would be jumping up and down 
> saying way to go Gimodo
> 
> You tend to be so predictable Tom.
> 
> Stewart


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Re: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?

[phartz...@gmail.com]

On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 1:35 AM, t.piwowar  wrote:

> Apple sent folks over to the guy's house to demand he give them back the
> phone.  He didn't.

  Let's do get the facts straight.  The PCWorld article you referenced
was drawing upon another story that appeared in Wired Magazine.

  The representatives from Apple Corp, who went to the home of the
person alleged to have been in possession of the phone, were not able
to confront the person they were looking for.  When they arrived, the
individual they were interested in was not there.  His roommate was,
and it was he who answered the knock on the door.  The Apple Corp.
folks demanded that they be allowed to enter and search the house, but
the roommate refused their demand because the person of interest was
not present.  I would have done the same thing in that situation.  I
would never let any officially unauthorized persons search through the
belongings of someone who shared a house with me unless I had been
specifically told by that individual to allow it.

  Those Apple representatives apparently never made another attempt to
recover the phone at that address.

  Additionally, it was at first denied by the San Mateo Police that
Apple ever had any hand in the raid and search of the premises in
question.  We now know that to have been untrue, and a silly thing for
the authorities to have said in the first place.  At a minimum, Apple
would have had to have filed a theft report, and since Apple already
knew where the phone was alleged to be located, they would have
provided that information to police.  That is called having a hand in
the execution of the search.  I am not casting aspersions toward Apple
Corp. in this instance, but I do wonder why the San Mateo Police were
initially trying to hide the fact that Apple Corp. was involved in the
execution of the search.  Perhaps because Apple is a corporate partner
(consultant) with them?

  Steve


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Re: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?

[John Duncan Yoyo]

On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 3:56 PM, mike  wrote:

> If I was a judge in this case my first query would be if this item is worth
> so much, money, market share..etc...why did you send some kid into a bar to
> leave it while he went out and took a leak in the alley?  This super secret
> phone from Apple wasn't taken from Apple headquarters by a team of IMF
> agents, so I'd not let them prosecute like it was.
>
> I'm not really so sure he left it behind.  I've heard this a few places
that he may just as easily had his pocket picked.

Real world testing includes carrying the thing around and using it as you
would any other phone.  This kid was doing that.
-- 
John Duncan Yoyo
---o)


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Re: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?

[Jeff Miles]

And how is this different then today? When I call in a crime I just get 
a case number for the insurance company.


Jeff Miles
jmile...@charter.net

Join my Mafia
http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726

On Apr 27, 2010, at 7:37 PM, t.piwowar wrote:

> On Apr 27, 2010, at 9:43 AM, John Duncan Yoyo wrote:
>> it may look like an easy win for a prosecutor who needs a run in the win 
>> column.
> 
> So why should effective law enforcement be treated with such contempt? The 
> Prosecutor's job is to prosecute and to win cases. What is wrong with that?
> 
> Perhaps we should start a list of registered anarchists so that when your 
> house catches fire we'll know not to send the fire department or when you get 
> robbed we'll know not to send the police?
> 
> 
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Re: [CGUYS] illegal search warrant?

[mike]

Yeah...the headline should clue you in.  Fact vs speculation...speculation
usually, at least to the rest of us means 'this part may be BS but we'll say
it anyway'.

On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 10:35 PM, t.piwowar  wrote:

> On Apr 28, 2010, at 11:36 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:
>
>> It has been referenced here online that the phone got returned.
>>
>
> Apple sent folks over to the guy's house to demand he give them back the
> phone.  He didn't.
>
> Your account is pure fabrication.
>
> Gizmodo's iPhone Saga: Fact vs. Speculation - PCWorld
>
> http://www.pcworld.com/article/195185/gizmodos_iphone_saga_fact_vs_speculation.html/
>
>
>
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