Re: [CGUYS] Internet but no mail server

2007-04-10 Thread Jordman
For what it's worth: when I can't figure out what's wrong with my email 
on Thunderbird, I start up Safari, which I never use, and create a new 
account using info that I know is correct, to see if it works. Sometimes 
it can help figure things out.
It's sort of  a habit from working on cars or electronics-  swap stuff 
out until something works.


Jordan

Harvey Simon wrote:

I'm having a big problem that I'm hoping some Computer Guy or Gal will be able 
to help with.  This is a Mac problem.

In short, I have Internet connectivity, but not e-mail connectivity.  That is, 
I'm connected to the Web -- various wireless networks or a wired connection -- 
but my e-mail program (Entourage) isn't making the connection.  E-mail isn't 
being sent or received and I get messages that the server has timed out.  
(Though once since this started an e-mail went through.)

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Harvey

Harvey Simon
202-537-1509
617-512-7246 (cell)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived


  




* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



Re: [CGUYS] Light Bulb Life (Stewart)

2007-04-12 Thread Jordman
That's right, European cars had the much brighter and better designed 
headlights for years before the U.S. As I recall, halogen lights were 
illegal in this country at that time, essentially because there were no 
U.S. manufacturers making them. Eventually Sylvania, I think, started 
making them and all of a sudden it was a good idea, and legal.
A nice little example of corporations holding back something that would 
benefit the public because it did not benefit a U.S. corporation.


Jordan

Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:
Any typical tungsten bulb suffers the same problem over it's life, 
it's output goes down.  The neat advantage of halogen bulbs are that 
they do not diminish brightness as they get older.  Therefore all US 
cars now have (which our European friends had for a long time) Halogen 
bulbs.


Remember when Square Headlights came into American cars?  It was a 
rule change from the Feds that allowed it, even though Europeans had 
them for years before we did.


Stewart





* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



[CGUYS] Headlight behavior -Warning:Off Topic

2007-04-12 Thread Jordman
Yes, the xenon lights we've seen in the last few years can be pretty 
annoying. It seems to me that I read some articles in /Road and Track 
/and/ Car and Driver /20 or more years ago about how the best of the 
"modern" halogen headlights had reflectors that provided a nice 
horizontal line on the upper edge of the beam that was kinder to 
oncoming drivers.


I remember that the halogen lights were hotter running, but I don't 
recall reading about or experiencing any danger or fires from their heat.


As long as we're so far off topic: all the extra and extra bright lights 
we see on vehicles these days is annoying outrageous and disgustingly 
wasteful. But then, being outrageous and wasteful is part of the 
belligerence of our society gone astray.
Most drivers used to know that driving lights, those extra bright high 
beams, were only to be used when there was no oncoming traffic and no 
one in front of you. Civilized behavior is quaint these days.


Jordan

Steve Rigby wrote:

On Apr 12, 2007, at 9:22 AM, Jordman wrote:

That's right, European cars had the much brighter and better designed 
headlights for years before the U.S. As I recall, halogen lights were 
illegal in this country at that time, essentially because there were 
no U.S. manufacturers making them. Eventually Sylvania, I think, 
started making them and all of a sudden it was a good idea, and legal.
A nice little example of corporations holding back something that 
would benefit the public because it did not benefit a U.S. corporation.


  However, the downside of this are the too-bright headlights.  I am 
sure that you have seen plenty of these dangerous, blindingly bright 
headlamps on newer cars.  Indeed, there are various initiatives to 
cause these new headlamps to be toned down in their brightness 
levels.  And, no, it is not caused by poor aiming of the headlamps.  
It is the nature of the light itself.  There is, it has been 
determined, a "sexy," mostly male oriented fascination among many 
buyers of new cars to have lots of bright lights for show purposes.


  Steve



* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L 
YourNewAddress

* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
* RSS at 
www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/maillist.xml

* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived






* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



Re: [CGUYS] LED bulbs

2007-04-12 Thread Jordman

Here's and article from Mother Earth News  about home lighting:
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Alternative-Energy/2007-04-01/Bright-Ideas-for-Home-Lighting.aspx

Their web site can be painfully slow, so here's a quote.
LEDs are a promising technology but:
"for most home lighting, LEDs are still not as energy-efficient as 
compact fluorescents, usually not bright enough and not yet as good at 
producing the white light we use in our homes."


Jordan

Tony B wrote:

With recent breakthroughs, the first economic LED bulbs should be
hitting stores this summer (so they say). They're more efficient even
than fluorescent, so as soon as prices fall they'll be ubiquitous.





* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



Re: [CGUYS] Tinkerers was: Apple hardware and Vista/PC hardwar

2007-04-20 Thread Jordman
Perhaps some PC users are always tinkering with their hardware because 
they are looking for something, anything, that will get their machines 
to run better.

That's what I did when I had a PC.
Same thing with the way we always got excited with each new Windows 
release. Maybe it will finally run well. Always disappointed



Tom Piwowar wrote:

I agree that most people don't tinker much, especially with their
hardware (PC or Mac).  There seem to be more hardware tinkerers in the
PC group. 



I think I see more software tinkering on Macs than PCs. It is rare to see 
a Mac that does not have at least a favorite photo on the desktop, 
customized dock, and extra Widgets. It is rare that I see even the 
simplest customizations on PCs. Even when I see someone with two 
computers (uses Mac for "real" work, but IT insists they must have a PC 
because IT can't figure out Entourage) their PC will rarely have anything 
altered on it. I think most people are afraid to do antyhing to their PCs.




* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived


  




* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



Re: [CGUYS] Savvy Senator?

2007-04-25 Thread Jordman
Outside the world of right wing authoritarians, sometimes people do the 
right thing because, um, it's the right thing to do.


David K. Watson wrote:
I'd also like to dispute the snide implication by Jeff that Vint Cerf 
is a partisan shill
and so shouldn't be listened to, as evidenced by Cerf's contributions 
to various
Dems.  In the list Jeff gave, the Cerf's contributions to Dems started 
in the

Clinton administration, AFTER Gore was senator.

It looks rather more like Cerf is supporting those who have previously 
supported

his issues.

To further bolster this interpretation, some of Cerf's contributions 
in Jeff's list are
to SCIPAC, which I know nothing about.  However, if you google SCIPAC, 
rather
high up in the listings you can find a Chronicle of Higher Education 
article with the
headline "Lobbyists Question Fund-Raising Group That Singles Out 
Republicans

as Supporters of Science".

So just how "partisan" is Vint Cerf anyway?

David Watson


  Michael Lewis says:


Jeff Wright sez:



Exactly. I choose to listen to Vint Cerf, undisputed as one of the
Founding Fathers of the Internet who said of Al Gore while defending
him from that false "I invented the Internet" meme:



Do you mean this Vint Cerf?  I'm sure it's just a coincidence that 
he wrote

an op-ed pimping and defending Gore back in the day.



Yes. That Vint Cerf. You know, the one who:

"...is a North American computer scientist who is commonly referred to
as one of the "founding fathers of the Internet" for his key technical
and managerial role, together with Bob Kahn, in the creation of the
Internet and the TCP/IP protocols which it uses."
Source: 

Big deal if he gives money to a political party. Lots of people do. That
makes him NOT a founding father of the Internet with probably enough
clout to claim who else assisted in building the Internet only in the
minds of people who like to misrepresent facts to further their own 
agendae.


Why are we all inside on this beautiful Sunday anyway?

--Michael Lewis
Off Balance Productions
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.offbalance.com




* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L 
YourNewAddress

* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at 
www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml

* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived






* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



Re: [CGUYS] More on bees and cellphones

2007-04-28 Thread Jordman
Wadda ya mean Tom? Didn't the American Spectator and the Weekly Standard 
agree with the Washington times? That's 3 of 'em. Their thinking must be 
mainstream! And then there's all those think tanksThey must be 
right...errr, correct.


Tom Piwowar wrote:

Or, in the Washington Times today...



You are supposed to know that the Washington Times reports on the news of 
a fantasy Universe parallel to our own. I guess as the years go by it 
gets harder to remember that the paper was established by and continues 
to be owned by the Rev. Moon to promote a particular point of view. Any 
resemblance to reality is coincidental. (Sort of like some of the posts 
on this list.) The paper is designed to gradually warp the reader's 
percention of reality until they start to believe that they live in 
fantasyland.




* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived


  




* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



[CGUYS] Off topic-policical

2007-04-28 Thread Jordman
I suspect that a lot of people don't have the time or inclination to 
find out if what they hear is true. It is to your credit that you do try.
Many people who watch Fox do not know that they are right leaning, 
sometimes radically so. These people are not stupid. They just don't 
know any better, for a host of different reasons. Knowing what our 
country has become, such ignorance is almost unforgivable. At this point 
polls are showing that most people who choose to watch Fox are right 
wing ideologues.


In the last few years, even NPR has been penetrated by the right.

Several of the media I mentioned previously are not out to make money. 
They are subsidized by radical right wing millionaires. They are part of 
the Republican noise machine.


If you are curious, check out 
http://www.motherjones.com/news/qa/2004/09/09_400.html



Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:

A classic mistake is made here.

Viewership does not equal believe/and or trust.  Viewership is simply 
that viewership.  I watch CBS news (Katie Couirc) Simply because it is 
the main local channel we get local news on.  If it were an ABC/NBC 
station I would watch it more for news.  I not believe and/or trust 
Katie anymore than I do Brain Williams or the other guy.


I watch both Fox News and listen to NPR.  Do I believe one more than 
the other.  NO!  I base the things I trust in what I can find out 
personally and can ascertain for myself.


Now that puts me firmly somewhere in the middle.  Just because the 
news says it or someone reports does not make it factual to me.  
Remember what I said about reporting earlier?


Remember all of these institutions are all out there to make or raise 
money to broadcast.  Their main goal is to be profitable.  (Exemption 
here is granted to NPR whose sole purpose seems to be to raise money!)


Any institution whose goal is to be profitable has an ulterior 
motive.  Take it from a guy who has worked in the non profit sector 
for a very long time.  I have to remind my folks of this axiom all the 
time, as we do not exist to meet the bottom line, ours is a different 
goal, so therefore our methods will be different!


Not crowing just stating a known fact.

Stewart


At 06:04 PM 4/28/2007, you wrote:
Wadda ya mean Tom? Didn't the American Spectator and the Weekly 
Standard agree with the Washington times? That's 3 of 'em. Their 
thinking must be mainstream! And then there's all those think 
tanksThey must be right...errr, correct.






* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



[CGUYS] Off topic-Political

2007-04-29 Thread Jordman
I gave some insights based on sociological studies, researched and 
confirmed facts, and scientific polls, and you offer platitudes, talking 
points, and untruths.
In the passed 12 years, the political middle has been pushed further and 
further to the right. I live in a part of PA considered to be the 
Alabama of PA. I know what these people think, they are happy to talk 
about it, and what they use to shape their reality. Rush Limbaugh is 
involved. And they don't just think he's funny. They believe what he 
says, though some won't admit it.


In order to maintain a degree of relative metal health, we all seek to 
find a reality we can live in.
Others are belligerently ignorant, in an effort to hide fear. There has 
been considerable study of this behavior. If you are curious, check out 
this book, which can be read online:

http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

I'm just touching on some of what can be learned about what is happening 
to our society and why. This is scary stuff, but it's important.




I suspect that a lot of people don't have the time or inclination to 
find out if what they hear is true. It is to your credit that you do try.
Many people who watch Fox do not know that they are right leaning, 
sometimes radically so. These people are not stupid. They just don't 
know any better, for a host of different reasons. Knowing what our 
country has become, such ignorance is almost unforgivable. At this point 
polls are showing that most people who choose to watch Fox are right 
wing ideologues.


In the last few years, even NPR has been penetrated by the right.

Several of the media I mentioned previously are not out to make money. 
They are subsidized by radical right wing millionaires. They are part of 
the Republican noise machine.


If you are curious, check out 
http://www.motherjones.com/news/qa/2004/09/09_400.html




* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



Re: [CGUYS] Off topic-political

2007-04-30 Thread Jordman
Put another way: If we can't define and rely on an accurate perception 
of the real, fact based world, how can we hope to accurately perceive 
the future.

If we can't see where we are now, how can we see where we're going.

(by the way Tom, you're posting in the future again.)

Tom Piwowar wrote:
A few nights ago PBS ran a great program on Watergate 30 Years After. 
They interviewed many of the primary players looking at events from the 
perspective that 30 years provides. 

One of the interesting points was that those involved in the Nixon crimes 
were people of high personal virtue -- they didn't smoke, didn't drink, 
didn't chase the opposite sex, etc. 

But they had no morals when it came to the public sphere. There seemed to 
be no limits to what they would do to win a political battle. One 
reporter noted how those in the administration would just lie and lie and 
lie with absolutely no compunction. If caught in a lie they would just 
lie some more. They bribed, they bullied, they falesly prosecuted, they 
blackmailed, they burgled, they ruined people's lives.


Watching the show I sadly noted that those were the good old days. It is 
worse today.


As you see from the snippet below, you just can't engage Jeff in any 
serious discussion. "Evil, stupid and/or ignorant, dishonest, sleazy" 
indeed. And so very sad. He is a smart guy, but isn't willing to work 
with it.


  

No, no Rev, you've got it all wrong.
Your side is brilliant, honest, forthright, righteous, of the highest ethics
and above reproach.
The other side is evil, stupid and/or ignorant, dishonest, sleazy and always
up to something no good.



This discussion is not really "off topic." This is an attempt to examine 
a decisionmaking process that is central to any discussion of how we use 
technology. It is key to thinking about DMCA, net neutrality, defective 
software security, false market statistics, etc. If we can't honestly 
examine the data, we can't honestly come to valid conclusions, and we 
can't effectively plot a future course.




* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived


  




* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



Re: [CGUYS] recommendations for Mac compatible printer

2007-05-16 Thread Jordman
I also gave up on HP long ago. Among other problems, buying cartridges 
was painful. I thought an Epson I got was a step in the right direction, 
but as others have said, it became fussy after a year or so, and would 
spend a few minutes cleaning before it would do anything.
I've had a Canon Pixma IP6600d for a couple years now and am pretty 
happy with it. I'm not a heavy user, so the cost is not painful and it's 
quiet and quick with good quality.


Jordan

Terry Taylor wrote:

Many thanks to everyone who responded to my question.

I use color for craft projects (example,  color coded knitting patterns;
printing artwork for miniatures).   The Stylus is a 
printer/scanner/copier,

in ad.  However, in addition to the waste of the very costly ink and the
messy output.   It appears, though, that multi-function isn't always the
most efficient way to go.

I'll keep your suggestions in mind when I start to shop in earnest for a
replacement.





* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



Re: [CGUYS] The Consequences of EULA Violation

2007-06-01 Thread Jordman

Thank you all for a really interesting conversation here.

But I can't help mentioning that, with the lawyers in the justice 
department and the judges in our courts packed with radical right wing 
corporate ideologues, are the laws and the courts based on morality or 
rational thought any more?



John Duncan Yoyo wrote:

Given that EULA's aren't all that enforceable I'd say go ahead and try
to install it in parallels.  If it works fine.  If it doesn't work the
reason nobody wants to support it because you haven't paid enough
money.  MS will always take your money for an upgrade later if you
really need support.


On 5/25/07, John DeCarlo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On 5/25/07, Tom Piwowar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >So, my question is: What, precisely, are all the things that could go
> wrong,
> >were I to violate the EULA?
>
> Have we gotten to the point where every crime is just another a 
business
> decision? If the benefit exceeds the fine or the probability of 
getting

> caught is not high then is there anything you would not do?
>

Well, until the EULA is given a solid legal standing, it is hard to 
argue
that violating a EULA is illegal.  It is certainly grounds for a 
contract
dispute, but those have gone both ways in the courts, with the user 
winning
sometimes (I has no real choice in the matter but to accept the EULA, 
so it
wasn't a valid contract) and the company winning sometimes (the 
person could

have refused to install the software).

So, right now, violating a EULA is not illegal.

--
John DeCarlo, My Views Are My Own



* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L 
YourNewAddress

* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at 
www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml

* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived









* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



Re: [CGUYS] wrong in all it wronged wrongness

2007-07-10 Thread Jordman

That's an awesome web site!

Jordan

mike wrote:

http://www.willitblend.com/videos.aspx?type=unsafe&video=iphone


Need I say more then the url?

Mike



* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L 
YourNewAddress

* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at 
www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml

* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived






* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



Re: [CGUYS] Surface Computing - the future may be near

2007-07-12 Thread Jordman

No, it's much less useful that that!


Tom Piwowar wrote:
I think that Surface Computing is a Touch Screen Kiosk turned 
horizontal instead of vertical. Another "innovation" from MS.



Isn't it like a $10,000 iPhone, just a little bit bigger and bulkier?



* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived


  




* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



Re: [CGUYS] Passport RFID

2007-07-12 Thread Jordman
The ones to be afraid of are the ones that don't know enough to be 
afraid of Cheney.



  




* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



Re: [CGUYS] Battery

2007-07-16 Thread Jordman
With a quick look I did not see any mother board batteries, but I was 
looking for batteries for my Nikon camera a couple months ago and found 
a shockingly low price at http://www.bestbatt.com/
Everywhere else had them for somewhere in the teens to well into the 
20some $ range. Bestbatt has them for less than 9 dollars. I was 
skeptical, but figured if they worked at all it would be worth it as a 
backup. But they work at least as well as the original.

Jordan



* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



Re: [CGUYS] Not on topic

2007-07-20 Thread Jordman
It is the patriotic duty of those who live in the fact based reality to 
point out the errant ways of our government.


Bert Brehm wrote:

If I wanted a net-nanny, I'd get an AOL account. If I were to
slam the right wing everyday, would you still be just as
condescending?

  

-Original Message-
From:  mike

If I wanted politics I'd join another list, can we stick

with the listserv 
  

topics? The once in awhile slam the right wing out of

nowhere gets old but 
  
and it's usually ignored. 





* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived


  




* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



Re: [CGUYS] Google Bookmarks

2007-07-26 Thread Jordman
I did install the Firefox Google Bookmarks add-on and used the Import 
Firefox Bookmarks option and saw a variety of strange behaviors from 
Firefox afterward. It was unresponsive to clicking on other tabs and 
then refused to shut down. After a couple force quits, it seems to have 
settled down. I suppose I could remove it now that I have moved my 
bookmarks, but I'll wait 'til it screws up some more.

This is on an iMac in case it matters.
In the interest of simplicity and reliability, unless I'm specifically 
experimenting with something, I generally keep add-ons to a minimum and 
I don't use Google toolbar.


Harvey Simon wrote:

Stay away from Gmarks.  I had trouble with it.  For one thing, Firefox
insisted on staying front and center on my screen when I selected another
active program.  I uninstalled Gmarks and that problem went away.

In the Google toolbar there's a drop down menu under Bookmarks that says
"Import Firefox Bookmarks."

I wish I'd seen that before I installed Gmarks, which I think could also be
to blame for the problems I detailed in the "Firefox f-up" thread.

hs

  
  




* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



[CGUYS] Google Bookmarks

2007-07-26 Thread Jordman

I thought I'd give Google bookmarks a try.
Is there a way to get my bookmarks in there in bulk, or does it have to 
be done 1 at a time?


Thanks
Jordan



* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



Re: [CGUYS] Google Bookmarks

2007-07-26 Thread Jordman

Thanks Tony,
Firefox Google bookmarks looks like the 1 you are referring to. If you 
search for Google Bookmarks in Firefox Add-ons, there are actually 12 
possibilities.


Tony B wrote:

The Gmarks Firefox add-on has a painless importer.

On 7/26/07, Jordman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  

I thought I'd give Google bookmarks a try.
Is there a way to get my bookmarks in there in bulk, or does it have to
be done 1 at a time?



  




* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



Re: [CGUYS] How do I play WVX on OS 10.4 Macs ?

2007-07-28 Thread Jordman

VLC seems to be a good tool for a wide variety of media.
http://www.videolan.org/vlc/features.html
http://www.videolan.org/vlc/download-macosx.html

I could not get audio from the stream or the downloaded video . I can't 
help wondering if the the fault lies with the source or if the audio is 
coded in an unreadable (windows only?) fashion.


You could check WMP for Mac:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/player/mac/mp9/default.aspx

I'm sure others will have better info.


Phil Marchetti wrote:
I have a customer that is an all Mac business and they want to know 
how to play
streaming or otherwise, WVX file formatted audio/video on their OS 
10.4.x Macs.


I have tried "flip 4 Mac WMV" ,   DivX,  Windows media player (Mac 
version 9).

I am able to get the video, but no sound.

According to one Google search:
A .wvx file is a Windows Media Redirector file.

The only purpose of this file is to redirect you to

 Windows Media files like WMV files.


The below link is one such item they wish to see and hear.


http://agriculture.edgeboss.net/wmedia/agriculture/07-24-07_pressconference.wvx 



Any help is appreciated.

Phil Marchetti



* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L 
YourNewAddress

* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at 
www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml

* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived






* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



Re: [CGUYS] How do I play WVX on OS 10.4 Macs ?

2007-07-29 Thread Jordman

Since no one else has anything to say on this:
It seems to me the MS often "updates" it's players to something that is 
unreadable by previous versions in an effort to get users to "phone 
home" and to keep non-MS players from working.


Phil Marchetti wrote:
I have a customer that is an all Mac business and they want to know 
how to play
streaming or otherwise, WVX file formatted audio/video on their OS 
10.4.x Macs.


I have tried "flip 4 Mac WMV" ,   DivX,  Windows media player (Mac 
version 9).

I am able to get the video, but no sound.

According to one Google search:
A .wvx file is a Windows Media Redirector file.

The only purpose of this file is to redirect you to

 Windows Media files like WMV files.


The below link is one such item they wish to see and hear.


http://agriculture.edgeboss.net/wmedia/agriculture/07-24-07_pressconference.wvx 



Any help is appreciated.

Phil Marchetti






* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



Re: [CGUYS] OS X maintenance routines

2007-07-30 Thread Jordman
I leave my Macs on for days or weeks and sleep them most of the time 
that they are not being used. I just installed Anacron to stay on top of 
routine maintenance. I think this site has a pretty good discussion of 
Mac maintenance.

http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html

Jordan

Steve Rigby wrote:
  Are Mac OS X maintenance routines supposed to be run for each and 
every user of a given machine, or can a single administrator run the 
routines and have the results be of equal benefit to all users?


  I have spent some time on the 'net trying to resolve this question, 
and decided to check with the experts here instead.


  Steve





* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



Re: [CGUYS] OS X maintenance routines

2007-07-30 Thread Jordman
I said it was a good discussion. I didn't say I did any of them except 
Anacron, which checks way too often, but should do what I wanted.
For the uninitiated it covers a lot of ground in one place, and 
information is good.

But I guess it is written by and for lawyers.

Tom Piwowar wrote:

I think this site has a pretty good discussion of Mac maintenance.
http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html



Pretty terrible actually. 

Looks like it was written by a hypochondriac (or a lawyer?). Few of this 
listed items can be considered "maintenance." These are repair methods 
that are run for specific reasons. Running them for no reason at all is 
at best a waste of time. It could actually break something that was not 
previously broken. IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT!


The one useful item is the reference to SMARTReporter, but even 
SMARTReporter runs way too frequently. It runs every few minutes when 
once an hour or even once a day would suffice.


  




* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



Re: [CGUYS] Memory question

2007-08-05 Thread Jordman

It seems you have no shortage of good advice here but:
If I were you I'd look closer at each CPU hog and see what it's doing or 
if there are settings you could change to stop this behavior. For 
example, there are certainly setting in Camino you could alter, but I'd 
start by closing one tab at a time while watching the CPU cycles on 
Activity Monitor. There's a weather web page that I use 
http://www.wunderground.com/satellite/vis/1k/US/PA/Aspers.html?theprefset=OLDSAT&theprefvalue=0
that will make any browser jump to around 30% usage. But it only does it 
while it's the clicked tab. Alternatively of course, you could just open 
one tab at a time and watch for the abuser.



Paula Minor wrote:
Well, initially it wouldn't start up in safe mode.  It hung at the 
white screen with the apple logo and the spinning dial.  So I shut it 
down after about 5 mins and started again.  It took almost 5 min. but 
did finally start up.
I have Camino open with all the tabs I usually have open(10 tabs) , 
mail, Windows media player because I wanted to listen to Mike Malloy 
show but...sadly, I have no sounds.  I unplugged my external 
speakers thinking that I could use the built in speaker but no go.  so 
I"m not going to run in safe mode for long.  Too quiet around here.  
Also have Photoshop CS2 with 2 photos open and iTunes.  iTunes won't 
play either since I have no sound.It doesn't even try to play a song. 
And all of my widgets are running as usual. The cpu seems to vary 
between about 44% to around 58% most of the time with spikes up to 
100%.   I'm not sure how long I need to run on this to see if Camino 
is going to slow it down but will leave it running overnight with all 
this stuff open.  I really miss having my special buttons on my 
Logitech rollerball!  When you get used to using your thumb to change 
things with a click or do a screen shot with a click, the basic two 
buttons feel crippled.
One thing that happened when trying to boot into safe mode the first 
time...when it got hung up a loud whirring sound started that sounded 
like a very loud fan blowing. I have heard this before when OSX 
decided to quit. Not every time but enough times that I'm aware of 
it.  I have no idea if it's anything unusual or not.
And to make things a bit worse.one of my dogs ran by very fast 
and bumped into the small table that my Macbook Pro is sitting on and 
knocked it off.  It fell flat on it's top with a very loud bang.  I 
have not had the courage to start it upI might have to kill the 
dog.  JUST KIDDING!  I have 7 dogs and am obviously an animal lover.


Thanks Tom for your suggestions and encouragement.  Wish you were able 
to make housecalls in Indy.

Paula
IN/USA
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of 
arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather 
to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, wine in the other, body 
thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a 
ride!" Have a wonderful day!







* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



Re: [CGUYS] replacement for iPhoto

2007-08-07 Thread Jordman
I've been using GraphicConverter for many years (since OS9 days) to mess 
with pictures. It seems to me to be very powerful and I like the way it 
works.

http://www.lemkesoft.com/
I think they've done a great job with the software and they are very 
responsive if you ever have a problem. You can try it for free and pay 
for it if you think it's worth it. I did.


I also don't like the way iPhoto works. It's like iTunes in that 
everything is in the library. But I guess that way of thinking is the 
future to some.


Wayne Dernoncourt wrote:

I tried iPhoto and think it's awful.  All the pictures always
seem to remain in the library even after they are categorized.
I do edit some of the pictures, cropping and resizing (make
some for web shots, some for thumbnails for bigger links - sort
of like story boards, etc. for how I think)

I find that keeping links to all of the pictures in the main
library as well as any category to be a bit distracting.  Is
there something out there that is better?  I've heard about
Photo Shop Elements.  I'm pretty sure I have no need for full
Photo Shop, maybe if I actually start getting serious with a
camera, but not right now.  I've also heard of Aperture.

Sweetie also wants to start fooling around with digital
photography using her camera(s).  Is the Windows version of
PS Elements comparable to the Mac version?  Could we help
each other out?

  




* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



Re: [CGUYS] Memory question

2007-08-08 Thread Jordman
As stated earlier in this thread, it's a huge CPU hog, among other 
things. Turn on a CPU monitor and then go to a web page that has it and 
watch you computer work, hard.


Judy Cosler wrote:

er, what's the problem with Flash?





* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



Re: [CGUYS] Memory question...Betty

2007-08-08 Thread Jordman
At this point I would start by letting it run all night with NO 
applications running. If it still has problems , then you've eliminated 
a lot of questions.
If it did still have problems, I'd install OS X on an external HD and 
see how that runs. I have a little partition on a Firewire HD just in 
case I need to answer such questions. (I actually had an iMac with a 
hardware problem that took apple a while to give up on. They finally 
sent me a new iMac. And, they didn't even want the less than 1 yr old 
one back. Long story, but I recently got the old one out to further 
experiment with what it will and won't do before it has a kernel crash.)
If you still have problems then I'd start checking and/or removing 
memory and check other hardware, or just take it to Apple.


Jordan



* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



Re: [CGUYS] Memory question.....Tom?

2007-08-08 Thread Jordman

0pen a Finder window and search for logs.
There are some in Mac HD/Library/Logs and others in (your name)/Library/Logs

Paula Minor wrote:
Have you checked your logs to see what time it's doing it?  Same time 
every
night?  What programs are running, any errors before it shuts down in 
the

log?

Where do I find the logs?





* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



Re: [CGUYS] Sicko -- discussion location

2007-08-17 Thread Jordman
Keep in mind, Fed-Ex and UPS syphon off the money making elements of 
delivering stuff, leaving the USPS to soldier on with what is left.


Jeff Morris wrote:

Socializing the health care industry would be biggest mistake this country has 
ever made.  Post Office vs Fed Ex.  Enough said.


  




* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



Re: [CGUYS] Sicko -- discussion location

2007-08-17 Thread Jordman

Yea, sure Mike. It's just that simple.

mike wrote:

And they do the said siphoning by offering one thing the PO can't get
right...getting a package where it's supposed to go, when it's supposed to
go.  The PO would not be losing any of the money making end of delivery if
they could offer good prices, on time services and above all customer
service.

Mike

On 8/17/07, Jordman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  

Keep in mind, Fed-Ex and UPS syphon off the money making elements of
delivering stuff, leaving the USPS to soldier on with what is left.

Jeff Morris wrote:


Socializing the health care industry would be biggest mistake this
  

country has ever made.  Post Office vs Fed Ex.  Enough said.


  




* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

2007-09-04 Thread Jordman
If I had known this was going to get so interesting, I would not have 
deleted the original exchange last week.   


Jordan



* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

2007-09-04 Thread Jordman

That's OK, I dug through the trash to refresh my memory.
I have gmail accounts, but I don't like dealing with web mail tools. I 
like doing email on my computer.

Are we board enough?
Jordan

mike wrote:

gmail...delete nothing...or for that matter the new yahoo with unlimited.

mike

  




* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

2007-09-04 Thread Jordman

OOps! Or perhaps my head is a bored board.

mike wrote:

gmail...delete nothing...or for that matter the new yahoo with unlimited.

mike

  




* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



Re: [CGUYS] lost email threads [ was: Re: Bill Nye...]

2007-09-09 Thread Jordman

Thank-you Betty and John!
Considering how much I don't like/trust Comcast, It's amazing I never 
thought to use Gmail as POP. I'll give it a try.


Jordan

b_s-wilk wrote:
If I had known this was going to get so interesting, I would not have 
deleted the original exchange last week.  Jordan 


not gone--archived:
   http://www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/


That's OK, I dug through the trash to refresh my memory.
I have gmail accounts, but I don't like dealing with web mail tools. 
I like doing email on my computer. 


GMail is POP mail, too. You don't have to deal with web mail.
   http://mail.google.com/support/bin/topic.py?topic=1555
   http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=13287





* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



[CGUYS] Apple Store acting weird

2007-09-06 Thread Jordman iMac
I've been checking out the Apple site lately. All of the site loads and 
works fine except for the store. On Firefox 2.0.0.6 the "Store" loads as 
just clickable text over on the left side of the window. No graphics at all.
On Seamonkey, when I click on "Store", sometimes it loads fine and 
sometimes I get a spinning beachball. When that happens, it does not 
seize the whole computer, an iMac, and if I activate the Force Quit  
window, it does not say that Seamonkey has stopped responding.

Anyone else having trouble? Could I have some setting messed up?
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore
Safari seems to load it fine.

Jordan



* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



Re: [CGUYS] Buying a Mac PowerBook Pro

2007-11-09 Thread Jordman iMac

The Mac at the web site you linked to appears to have 2G RAM. Plenty
unless you it will be doing some kind of heavy graphics lifting.

If I were you I would lean towards Parallels rather than have to reboot
to switch. That is of course unless you are thinking of not using OS X
at all.

I would stick with Tiger for now and worry about Leopard in a few
months. Tiger works very well! If you want to have Leopard, consider
buying from Apple. Somehow I feel that the Macs from Apple are more set
up than from other vendors, and the computer will come with Leopard.
If you haven't had a laptop and/or will go places with it a lot, the
Applecare Protection Plan is a good service.

You can get very small boxes that will multiply your USB ports for you.
It's not a big deal. You can daisy chain Firewire, so that's not an issue.

Just thought I'd throw in my views.

Gosh, so many replies about serial ports and floppy drives on 
laptops.


I'm thinking of buying a Mac PowerBook Pro (college daughter bought 
one and loves it), but I am a Windows person and don't know how to 
select and I've never had a laptop.  The one that I am considering is
 a 15.4" screen, 2.2 GHz Intel processor, 1 GB memory, sells for 
$2000 but available at a discount for $1800.  Questions:


1.  What is the best software that emulates Windows on a Mac?  Or, is
 it

better to install Windows as a partition?  I need this because of the
 very many Windows applications that I have.

2.  The discounted $1800 notebook is advertised with the OS Tiger, 
not Leopard.  How important is the latter OS?


3.  How expandable is the memory and/or disk drive?  I'm used to 
having 1.5 TB disk space, so 120 GB internal is very small.  Is 1 GB

 memory adequate?

4.  How many ports?  (My desktop has 16 USB ports and 5 IEEE ports, 
and all are used.  Of course, I know that a laptop will not need so 
many.)


5.  Should I buy "drop" insurance -- i.e., insurance for repair if I
 drop it or run over it with my car?

6.  Other advice?






* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived



Re: [CGUYS] [C-GUYS] ARTICLE: Why Macs are not more expensive than PCs--an economic analysis

2007-11-09 Thread Jordman iMac

As has been pointed out on this list before, Macs tend to hold up longer
than Windows machines. I think some of this is due to the quality of the
equipment, and some of it is because unlike MS, the Mac OS and now OS X
does not force the antiquation of the equipment.

Snyder, Mark (NGIT-CA) wrote:

No, it falls apart there for most of us, because most people and most
 businesses use their computers until it is time to trash them.

I have seen other arguments that show competitive value for Apple 
computers.  The most believable arguments show Mac vs. Pc to be 
closer than most people think, with no significant advantage on 
either side.


I personally see value in Mac OS X over Windows, but that is just 
IMHO. I use XP on the job and OS X at home, so I know both. 
Unfortunately I use XP at work more often than OS X at home.


Thank you,

Mark Snyder -Original Message-

I am a Mac/Apple user, but am not sure I agree about resale value 
driving market. Do any of you regularly resell old computers?




 * ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in 
<== * ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <== * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE 
COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: 
SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: 
SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE 
COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 * List archive at 
www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at 
www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * 
Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived
 









* ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in  <==
* ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <==
* Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name
* Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST
* Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L
* New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress
* Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/
* RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml
* Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived