Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[Paul Meyer]

- Original
The obligatory Amiga joke... all's well with the world.

- Original Message 
From: mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2007 10:18:54 AM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

Good thing I write these on an Amiga

Mike

On 9/4/07, Tom Piwowar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >  1. A "moderator" who doesn't moderate means there is no moderating,
> >which makes this an unmoderated list. Which was my point. How did it get
> so
> >important to you that I be wrong?
>
> This list is moderated. If I don't like your posts we send thugs to your
> house. If you have a Mac the thugs replace it with a PC. If you have a PC
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> from again.
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[mike]

Good thing I write these on an Amiga

Mike

On 9/4/07, Tom Piwowar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >  1. A "moderator" who doesn't moderate means there is no moderating,
> >which makes this an unmoderated list. Which was my point. How did it get
> so
> >important to you that I be wrong?
>
> This list is moderated. If I don't like your posts we send thugs to your
> house. If you have a Mac the thugs replace it with a PC. If you have a PC
> the thugs replace it with Linux. If you have Linux the thugs replace it
> with a Commodore 64. In any event, the offending party is never heard
> from again.
>
>
> 
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>



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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[Tom Piwowar]

>  1. A "moderator" who doesn't moderate means there is no moderating, 
>which makes this an unmoderated list. Which was my point. How did it get so 
>important to you that I be wrong?

This list is moderated. If I don't like your posts we send thugs to your 
house. If you have a Mac the thugs replace it with a PC. If you have a PC 
the thugs replace it with Linux. If you have Linux the thugs replace it 
with a Commodore 64. In any event, the offending party is never heard 
from again.



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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[Paul Meyer]

"Tough love" on the list is like corporal punishment with children.
To wit, if it has a legitimate use, the person most desirous to employ it is 
rarely
the  person to apply it well or appropriately.


- Original Message 
From: Robert Michael Abrams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2007 6:07:26 PM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

At 06:01 AM 8/22/07, Paul Meyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>I did not take particular offense to your "rant"

  Mazel tov. Neither did I. Possibly because, your characterization 
notwithstanding, it wasn't a rant.

>and thought it reasonably harmless given that the person in question had 
>left the list already

  You appear to be making the factually incorrect assumption that I 
intended to speak only to him.

>but you have to be pretty inexperienced with email to recognize the 
>potential for any stylistic exaggeration to be seen as hostile or angry.

  1. I see YOUR stylistic exaggeration as condescending and pedantic.

  2. You appear to be making the incorrect assumption that Jeff was 
not, in fact, "hostile or angry," and, therefore, by implication, I was 
wrong or unfair to have seen him that way. Perhaps, though, you are to be 
excused for your error, because you do not have the additional benefit of 
an off-list post from Jeff to me in which he confirmed just how "hostile or 
angry" he was. I am reluctant, for obvious reasons of Netiquette, to share 
a private post with the list. But you have his e-mail address. You are free 
to ask him to send you a copy of his private post to me, if you want to 
make up your own mind about whether or not he was "hostile or angry."

  3. Just because I interpret any one instance, or any set of 
instances, of stylistic exaggeration [that's a GREAT phrase, BTW] as 
"hostile or angry," it does not follow logically that I will necessarily 
interpret any other instance, or set of instances, that way, as well.

>No matter what the topic we all have a responsibility to be respectful.

  That's YOUR opinion. It also strikes me as dogmatic and inflexible. 
It wouldn't occur to me to state such a thing as a rule for anyone other 
than myself, since I don't think I'm wise enough to discern, before the 
fact, every set of circumstances that might occur to everybody else, and 
then conclude that being respectful is the best course for all of them. 
Suppose there is a situation in which cussing someone out, on the list, is 
just exactly what is needed to get him to wake up, or whatever it is, and 
become a helpful, friendly, entertaining, and productive listmember? 
Suppose you discern, correctly, that some other listmember will continue to 
dish you dirt unless and until you give HIM a dose, at which point he will 
back off?

  As a general proposition, however, I agree that being respectful is 
the way to go when responding to posts, particularly if the posts to which 
you respond are respectful of you. I don't know that one is the final 
arbiter of whether or not one is or was respectful, though. Suppose, for 
instance, that somebody sends you a post that is condescending and 
pedantic, yet the sender insists that everybody has "a responsibility to be 
respectful." How would you handle THAT?

  One more thing: I wonder how many listmembers, apart from myself, 
believe that you have to be pretty arrogant to think that it is your place 
to tell every other listmember what his or her responsibility is.

>I actually think the Nye thread was somewhat offensive.

  All of it? Particular parts or comments? I don't understand your 
observation, because you don't provide, for me, anyway, sufficient specificity.

>Maybe its patronizing but I tend to see people with fundamentalist views 
>as somehow deprived (of info, education, etc).

  Just as, I guess (and guessing is all I'm doing, since I don't claim 
to speak for those to/about whom Bill Nye spoke), they view you as deprived 
of the benefits of God's grace and salvation through Jesus. In both 
instances, though, each of you views yourself as somehow "better off than" 
the other guy. And, also in both instances, it is a VERY short step from 
seeing oneself as "better off than" the other guy to seeing oneself as 
"better than" the other guy.

  Perhaps you have noticed that some people are better than others at 
avoiding that step.

  Or perhaps not.

>We could say that the "retarded" are "stupid" and no matter how accurate 
>it is seem both mean-spirited and pointless. Such a statement only serves 
>the need of the speaker to vent (or be cruel).

  Unless, of course, your point is to BE mean-spirited or cruel. But 
then, one might

Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[Jeff Wright]

Dear Bobers, 

I really don't care any longer.  I've said my piece in the matter and have
no desire to waste any more time on your asinine pedantry.

Really.  Truly. 

Hug and kisses,

Jeff



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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[Robert Michael Abrams]

At 03:39 PM 9/4/07, chad evans wyatt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


OK, everyone. We've heard all of "bob's" variations.


 Ignorantly and erroneously spoken. Boo!


Time to ignore him.


 Arrogantly and presumptuously spoken. Yay!

 It appears that you have taken it upon yourself to decide for the 
entire list, including those teeming and uncounted millions who actually 
enjoy reading my posts, and have said so, what all listmembers are now to do.


 There is no rational basis for you to assume or conclude that you 
have even the personal appeal or influence, let alone the power, to tell 
anyone else on the list what he or she should or should not do, or what it 
is time for anyone else, besides yourself, to do or not to do. Plenty of 
IRRATIONAL bases for such assumptions and conclusions, of course, but no 
rational ones. If you REALLY thought it was time to ignore me, then WHY 
didn't YOU? I think what you actually believed was that it was time for you 
to show everybody how jealous you are of me, which you just did, even 
though, IMO, you likely didn't mean to, and that, as egocentric as I am 
(and, boy, oh, boy, am I egocentric), you are even MORE egocentric than THAT.


 Only someone even MORE egocentric than I am, someone you might 
characterize as "egotistical," would believe that because HE wants the list 
to ignore me, the rest of the list should/will want to ignore me, too. I 
mean, you have to think you're the absolute center of the universe to 
believe something like: "If I see it this way, then everybody else should 
damned well see it the same way, too."


 Either that, or you believe you can read everybody's mind.

 I offer these two things which you might want to consider:

 1. How would you like it if some listmember to whom you had never 
done or said anything, decided, for his or her own narrow, subjective, 
personal, arbitrary, and irrational reasons, to tell the list to ignore YOU?


 2. Had you not made this post, I would not have been able to respond 
to it.


   Bob

Thinking clearly and logically is hard. If it were easy, everyone would do it.

OK
End 




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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[John Duncan Yoyo]

Use pop on a gmail  account or forward through it to an account you
use if you do not like the web tool.

On 9/4/07, Jordman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> OOps! Or perhaps my head is a bored board.
>
> mike wrote:
> > gmail...delete nothing...or for that matter the new yahoo with unlimited.
> >
> > mike
> >
> >
>
>
> 
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>


-- 
John Duncan Yoyo
---o)



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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[mike]

I used to like email on my main system, but it's a lot faster on theirs.
heh

Mike

On 9/4/07, Jordman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> That's OK, I dug through the trash to refresh my memory.
> I have gmail accounts, but I don't like dealing with web mail tools. I
> like doing email on my computer.
> Are we board enough?
> Jordan
>
> mike wrote:
> > gmail...delete nothing...or for that matter the new yahoo with
> unlimited.
> >
> > mike
> >
> >
>
>
> 
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>



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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[Jordman]

OOps! Or perhaps my head is a bored board.

mike wrote:

gmail...delete nothing...or for that matter the new yahoo with unlimited.

mike

  




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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[Jordman]

That's OK, I dug through the trash to refresh my memory.
I have gmail accounts, but I don't like dealing with web mail tools. I 
like doing email on my computer.

Are we board enough?
Jordan

mike wrote:

gmail...delete nothing...or for that matter the new yahoo with unlimited.

mike

  




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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[mike]

gmail...delete nothing...or for that matter the new yahoo with unlimited.

mike

On 9/4/07, Jordman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> If I had known this was going to get so interesting, I would not have
> deleted the original exchange last week.
>
> Jordan
>
>
> 
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>



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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[Jordman]

If I had known this was going to get so interesting, I would not have 
deleted the original exchange last week.   


Jordan



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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[chad evans wyatt]

OK, everyone.  We've heard all of "bob's" variations. 
Time to ignore him.  



   

Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. 
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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[Robert Michael Abrams]

At 06:01 AM 8/22/07, Paul Meyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I did not take particular offense to your "rant"


 Mazel tov. Neither did I. Possibly because, your characterization 
notwithstanding, it wasn't a rant.


and thought it reasonably harmless given that the person in question had 
left the list already


 You appear to be making the factually incorrect assumption that I 
intended to speak only to him.


but you have to be pretty inexperienced with email to recognize the 
potential for any stylistic exaggeration to be seen as hostile or angry.


 1. I see YOUR stylistic exaggeration as condescending and pedantic.

 2. You appear to be making the incorrect assumption that Jeff was 
not, in fact, "hostile or angry," and, therefore, by implication, I was 
wrong or unfair to have seen him that way. Perhaps, though, you are to be 
excused for your error, because you do not have the additional benefit of 
an off-list post from Jeff to me in which he confirmed just how "hostile or 
angry" he was. I am reluctant, for obvious reasons of Netiquette, to share 
a private post with the list. But you have his e-mail address. You are free 
to ask him to send you a copy of his private post to me, if you want to 
make up your own mind about whether or not he was "hostile or angry."


 3. Just because I interpret any one instance, or any set of 
instances, of stylistic exaggeration [that's a GREAT phrase, BTW] as 
"hostile or angry," it does not follow logically that I will necessarily 
interpret any other instance, or set of instances, that way, as well.



No matter what the topic we all have a responsibility to be respectful.


 That's YOUR opinion. It also strikes me as dogmatic and inflexible. 
It wouldn't occur to me to state such a thing as a rule for anyone other 
than myself, since I don't think I'm wise enough to discern, before the 
fact, every set of circumstances that might occur to everybody else, and 
then conclude that being respectful is the best course for all of them. 
Suppose there is a situation in which cussing someone out, on the list, is 
just exactly what is needed to get him to wake up, or whatever it is, and 
become a helpful, friendly, entertaining, and productive listmember? 
Suppose you discern, correctly, that some other listmember will continue to 
dish you dirt unless and until you give HIM a dose, at which point he will 
back off?


 As a general proposition, however, I agree that being respectful is 
the way to go when responding to posts, particularly if the posts to which 
you respond are respectful of you. I don't know that one is the final 
arbiter of whether or not one is or was respectful, though. Suppose, for 
instance, that somebody sends you a post that is condescending and 
pedantic, yet the sender insists that everybody has "a responsibility to be 
respectful." How would you handle THAT?


 One more thing: I wonder how many listmembers, apart from myself, 
believe that you have to be pretty arrogant to think that it is your place 
to tell every other listmember what his or her responsibility is.



I actually think the Nye thread was somewhat offensive.


 All of it? Particular parts or comments? I don't understand your 
observation, because you don't provide, for me, anyway, sufficient specificity.


Maybe its patronizing but I tend to see people with fundamentalist views 
as somehow deprived (of info, education, etc).


 Just as, I guess (and guessing is all I'm doing, since I don't claim 
to speak for those to/about whom Bill Nye spoke), they view you as deprived 
of the benefits of God's grace and salvation through Jesus. In both 
instances, though, each of you views yourself as somehow "better off than" 
the other guy. And, also in both instances, it is a VERY short step from 
seeing oneself as "better off than" the other guy to seeing oneself as 
"better than" the other guy.


 Perhaps you have noticed that some people are better than others at 
avoiding that step.


 Or perhaps not.

We could say that the "retarded" are "stupid" and no matter how accurate 
it is seem both mean-spirited and pointless. Such a statement only serves 
the need of the speaker to vent (or be cruel).


 Unless, of course, your point is to BE mean-spirited or cruel. But 
then, one might excuse oneself such mean-spiritedness, or fail even to 
recognize it, in the first place, if one believed one were "better than" 
the other guy.


Though we all need to vent but I don't think I would enjoy any list where 
it happens too often (more than seldom?). Anyone think that venting 
(especially near the line of OT) is an appealing feature of this list?


 I think that a venti is an appealing feature of Starbucks.

 Bob

Thinking clearly and logically is hard. If it were easy, everyone would do it.

OK
End  




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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[Robert Michael Abrams]

At 08:08 AM 9/4/07, Tomás de Torquemoderator <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

This list is moderated. If I don't like your posts we send thugs to your 
house. [snipparoonie] In any event, the offending party is never heard 
from again.


 So! Youse gonna send your thugs around, or what?

 I got your list moderator right here.

 Bob

Thinking clearly and logically is hard. If it were easy, everyone would do it.

OK
End 




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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[Robert Michael Abrams]

At 09:31 AM 8/26/07, Jeff Wright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

1. I don't want listmembers to attempt to censor others, but label such 
behavior "moderating the list."


How can anyone "censor" anyone else here?


 I believe I specified attempts at censorship, particularly those 
which are deceptively and/or erroneously labelled, rather than actual success.


Do you think you missed out on some special power that can reach out and 
retroactively wipe a sent message?


 WTF?

As much as I would like for you to cut for yourself a big, steaming hunk 
of STFU, I don't think that's going to happen any time soon and my ability 
to make that happen is rather limited.


 What's the matter, Jeff? Why the long feces?

This is an unmoderated list. Thus, it has no given, OR SELF-APPOINTED, 
moderator(s). This means you.


Wrong.  Tom himself can come from on high and get with the smiting, should 
he see fit.  But, that's not his style.


 1. A "moderator" who doesn't moderate means there is no moderating, 
which makes this an unmoderated list. Which was my point. How did it get so 
important to you that I be wrong?


 2. Some list HMFIC who doesn't moderate is called an "admin," or 
something like it.



The list membership is the moderator.


 I said as much in my previous post to you. But if you need to take 
credit for bringing up the idea, because of some hole in your soul, or 
whatever, then have at it.



It is, in its own right, a community and has a unique culture.


 Isn't that spatial?

It has its own rules of decorum and any of us can speak up and say what we 
think about any other member's behavior.


 That's right. And that member is free to suggest that you roll it up 
and smoke it.



That I think that you're someone who was, in this instance, way out of line


 If I were, in fact, out of line, whatever the hell THAT means, in 
THIS context, you would have said what I was out of line about. You'd have 
had some specifics. You would also have had some objective criteria, rather 
than just your own narrow, selfish, subjective, and arbitrary opinion, 
against which my out of lineness could be measured.


 As it is, I think you have taken all of this way too personally, and 
you aren't having even 1% of the fun I am having in these exchanges.


and, in general, is way too impressed with himself and his place in the 
world is just my own opinion as a listmember.


 I can't help it if you aren't educated, intelligent, articulate, 
funny, witty, clever, and charming, like I am. Face it. Not everybody gets 
to be as cool as Bob Abrams.


 You may kiss my ring.

3. Most adults on this list, in my experience, are perfectly capable of 
moderating themselves, and don't need any help from you, me, or Jeff Morris.


Obviously, that didn't apply to you and Mr. Morris.


 1. It isn't obvious.

 2. It did apply.


You seemed to think he needed lots and lots of your special kind of help.


 Who said I was attempting to help him? You really enjoy making 
assumptions.



So much so, that you wanted to make sure that he couldn't possibly ignore you.


 You're assuming, big surprise there, that I was speaking only to him.


It wasn't enough that you just said your piece and got on with life,


 Not enough for YOU, quite obviously, since it can fairly be implied 
that, by your repeated posts to this thread, you simply can't get enough of 
my commentary. God knows you provoke enough of it.


 I simply can't thank you enough.

he had to *know* how you wuz wronged by his critique and his decision to 
censor *himself* by unsubbing.


 I never claimed or implied that I, personally, was "wronged." The 
fact of the matter is that his unsubbing post didn't have anything to do 
with any of my posts. And, as I made perfectly clear, but you managed to 
ignore, anyway, his behavior was a lot more than just unsubbing.



Heaven help anyone who goes astray of Bob's orthodoxy.


 I admit that I was post-modern before there was any "modern" to be 
"post-" about, but I just don't have an orthodoxy (in any context to which 
you refer) for anyone to go astray of. I notice you didn't say, or even 
suggest or imply, what you imagined that orthodoxy was. I guess, if you 
had, that would have required you to have said something of substance, 
something beyond mere innuendo or namecalling. But maybe you're not up to 
it. After all, maybe, as I suggested earlier, you aren't as intelligent, 
educated, or articulate as I am. Tough existential noogies. It simply isn't 
my fault that, by contrast, you have managed to turn yourself into the 
biggest tool since Paul Bunyan's axe.


 I personally believe that all U. S. Americans, in our country such 
as, are smart and pretty. Especially me.


   Bob

Thinking clearly and logically is hard. If it were easy, everyone would do it.

OK
End  




*

Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[Robert Michael Abrams]

At 04:43 PM 8/25/07, Stewart Marshall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Because of my Brobdingnagian package, I've never been in what you could 
call a "contest." All other entrants got beaten like a Sunday boner.


Are you talking about your ego?


 No, I'm not. However, for a modest additional fee, I'm certain that a 
satisfactory explanation can be made to you, privately, which will make 
clear what I AM talking about. I accept cash, AmEx, Discover, VISA, and 
MasterCard.


 Priceless.

Bob

Thinking clearly and logically is hard. If it were easy, everyone would do it.

OK
End  




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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[Jeff Wright]

>   1. I don't want listmembers to attempt to censor others, but
> label
> such behavior "moderating the list."

How can anyone "censor" anyone else here?  Do you think you missed out on
some special power that can reach out and retroactively wipe a sent message?
As much as I would like for you to cut for yourself a big, steaming hunk of
STFU, I don't think that's going to happen any time soon and my ability to
make that happen is rather limited.

>   2. This is an unmoderated list. Thus, it has no given, OR
> SELF-APPOINTED, moderator(s). This means you.

Wrong.  Tom himself can come from on high and get with the smiting, should
he see fit.  But, that's not his style.

The list membership is the moderator.  It is, in its own right, a community
and has a unique culture.  It has its own rules of decorum and any of us can
speak up and say what we think about any other member's behavior.  That I
think that you're someone who was, in this instance, way out of line and, in
general, is way too impressed with himself and his place in the world is
just my own opinion as a listmember.  
 
>   3. Most adults on this list, in my experience, are perfectly
> capable
> of moderating themselves, and don't need any help from you, me, or Jeff
> Morris.

Obviously, that didn't apply to you and Mr. Morris.  You seemed to think he
needed lots and lots of your special kind of help.  So much so, that you
wanted to make sure that he couldn't possibly ignore you.  It wasn't enough
that you just said your piece and got on with life, he had to *know* how you
wuz wronged by his critique and his decision to censor *himself* by
unsubbing.  

Heaven help anyone who goes astray of Bob's orthodoxy.



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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

Are you talking about your ego?

Stewart


At 06:34 PM 8/25/2007, you wrote:

 Because of my Brobdingnagian package, I've never been in what 
you could call a "contest." All other entrants got beaten like a Sunday boner.


OK
End


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Prince of Peace
Ozark, AL  SL 82



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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[Robert Michael Abrams]

At 07:02 PM 8/21/07, Jeff Wright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I guess then you were only kidding about that "100 moderators" comment.


 Not in the slightest.


You don't want to be moderated,


 1. I don't want listmembers to attempt to censor others, but label 
such behavior "moderating the list."


 2. This is an unmoderated list. Thus, it has no given, OR 
SELF-APPOINTED, moderator(s). This means you.


 3. Most adults on this list, in my experience, are perfectly capable 
of moderating themselves, and don't need any help from you, me, or Jeff Morris.



just encouraged.


 Whip out some love and lay it on me, Sweet Chunks.


Have fun at the pissing contests.


 Because of my Brobdingnagian package, I've never been in what you 
could call a "contest." All other entrants got beaten like a Sunday boner.



Ta!


 See you 'round. Like a bagel.

Bob

Thinking clearly and logically is hard. If it were easy, everyone would do it.

OK
End  




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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[Melissa Bell]

Venting is not an appealing virtue of this list.Mean-spirited  
venting in most forms is basically lame and best left for bloggers  
shooting their vitriol off into cyberspace.   I've enjoyed the health  
care issue most of all and wouldn't mind revisiting that one.As  
said before, we can slide back to computer talk anytime.  I'm partial  
to my Mac, but appreciate my PC friends, too.


MB

On Aug 22, 2007, at 9:01 AM, Paul Meyer wrote:

I did not take particular offense to your "rant" and thought it  
reasonably
harmless given that the person in question had left the list  
already but you have

to be pretty inexperienced with email to recognize the potential for
any stylistic exaggeration to be seen as hostile or angry.

No matter what the topic we all have a responsibility to be  
respectful.
I actually think the Nye thread was somewhat offensive. Maybe its  
patronizing
but I tend to see people with fundamentalist views as somehow  
deprived (of info,
education, etc).  We could say that the "retarded" are "stupid" and  
no matter

how  accurate it is seem both mean-spirited and pointless.

Such a statement
only serves the need of the speaker to vent (or be cruel).
Though we  all need to vent  but I don't think I would
enjoy any list where it happens too often (more than seldom?).
Anyone think that venting (especially near the line of OT)
is an appealing feature of this list?




- Original Message 
From: Robert Michael Abrams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 9:45:24 PM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

At 08:48 PM 8/19/07, Jeff Wright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Bob, can I call you Bob?


  Well, they often call me "Speedo," but my real name is Mister  
Earl.


As someone who's probably been over the top on more than one  
occasion in

my years on the list,


  I don't remember you being over the top on ANY occasion. You  
got a

photo, maybe?


I gotta say, you even shamed me tonight


  I gotta say, I didn't "shame" anyone or anything. I didn't do
anything shameful. Even my use of vulgarity was done in a spirit of
somewhat self-deprecating play or fun, and not in or with shame. If  
you

felt shame, that was your doing and not mine.


with your bizarrely malicious rant


  You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but I disagree  
that my
comments and observations about his immature attempts at  
censorship, and
his deliberately dramatic, and gratuitously reproving, exit from  
the list

constituted a "rant."

  Also, with regard to your characterization "malicious," I  
gotta say,
"Honi soit qui mal y pense." I was having way too much fun to  
feel any
malice. Sorry you didn't see the fun sufficiently to share in it.  
Maybe

next time.

  I take your use of the term "bizarrely" as a compliment, and  
I am
grateful to you for such flattery. In much the same way that Mel  
Brooks
said it was good to be the king, I think that sometimes it's good  
to be

bizarre. My listening to The Computer Guys radio show from the days of
Derek McGinty, and my membership on this list, is proof enough of  
that.


towards someone who, at most, expressed disappointment in the  
quality of

his entertainment.


  With all due respect, Jeff, can I call you Jeff? I think you  
got him
all wrong. He was expressing disappointment with all of us for our  
failure
to see automatically to his unspoken, arbitrary, subjective, and  
infantile

expectations about the content of everybody else's posts to this list.

  As I see it, "the quality of his entertainment" ain't the list's
problem to solve.


Dear god, lighten the f#$% up.


  Q. Why did Jeff want God to lighten the f#$% up?

  A. The f#$% was too dark to see clearly.


Go watch Ultimate Fighting or something.


  Enjoy that sort of thing, do you?

 Bob

Thinking clearly and logically is hard. If it were easy, everyone  
would do it.


OK
End


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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[Paul Meyer]

I did not take particular offense to your "rant" and thought it reasonably
harmless given that the person in question had left the list already but you 
have
to be pretty inexperienced with email to recognize the potential for
any stylistic exaggeration to be seen as hostile or angry.  

No matter what the topic we all have a responsibility to be respectful.
I actually think the Nye thread was somewhat offensive. Maybe its patronizing
but I tend to see people with fundamentalist views as somehow deprived (of info,
education, etc).  We could say that the "retarded" are "stupid" and no matter
how  accurate it is seem both mean-spirited and pointless.  

Such a statement 
only serves the need of the speaker to vent (or be cruel).
Though we  all need to vent  but I don't think I would
enjoy any list where it happens too often (more than seldom?).
Anyone think that venting (especially near the line of OT)
is an appealing feature of this list?




- Original Message 
From: Robert Michael Abrams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 9:45:24 PM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

At 08:48 PM 8/19/07, Jeff Wright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>Bob, can I call you Bob?

  Well, they often call me "Speedo," but my real name is Mister Earl.

>As someone who's probably been over the top on more than one occasion in 
>my years on the list,

  I don't remember you being over the top on ANY occasion. You got a 
photo, maybe?

>I gotta say, you even shamed me tonight

  I gotta say, I didn't "shame" anyone or anything. I didn't do 
anything shameful. Even my use of vulgarity was done in a spirit of 
somewhat self-deprecating play or fun, and not in or with shame. If you 
felt shame, that was your doing and not mine.

>with your bizarrely malicious rant

  You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but I disagree that my 
comments and observations about his immature attempts at censorship, and 
his deliberately dramatic, and gratuitously reproving, exit from the list 
constituted a "rant."

  Also, with regard to your characterization "malicious," I gotta say, 
"Honi soit qui mal y pense." I was having way too much fun to feel any 
malice. Sorry you didn't see the fun sufficiently to share in it. Maybe 
next time.

  I take your use of the term "bizarrely" as a compliment, and I am 
grateful to you for such flattery. In much the same way that Mel Brooks 
said it was good to be the king, I think that sometimes it's good to be 
bizarre. My listening to The Computer Guys radio show from the days of 
Derek McGinty, and my membership on this list, is proof enough of that.

>towards someone who, at most, expressed disappointment in the quality of 
>his entertainment.

  With all due respect, Jeff, can I call you Jeff? I think you got him 
all wrong. He was expressing disappointment with all of us for our failure 
to see automatically to his unspoken, arbitrary, subjective, and infantile 
expectations about the content of everybody else's posts to this list.

  As I see it, "the quality of his entertainment" ain't the list's 
problem to solve.

>Dear god, lighten the f#$% up.

  Q. Why did Jeff want God to lighten the f#$% up?

  A. The f#$% was too dark to see clearly.

>Go watch Ultimate Fighting or something.

  Enjoy that sort of thing, do you?

 Bob

Thinking clearly and logically is hard. If it were easy, everyone would do it.

OK
End  



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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[Jeff Wright]

I guess then you were only kidding about that "100 moderators" comment.  You
don't want to be moderated, just encouraged.

Have fun at the pissing contests.  Ta!

> -Original Message-
> >Bob, can I call you Bob?



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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[Robert Michael Abrams]

At 08:48 PM 8/19/07, Jeff Wright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Bob, can I call you Bob?


 Well, they often call me "Speedo," but my real name is Mister Earl.

As someone who's probably been over the top on more than one occasion in 
my years on the list,


 I don't remember you being over the top on ANY occasion. You got a 
photo, maybe?



I gotta say, you even shamed me tonight


 I gotta say, I didn't "shame" anyone or anything. I didn't do 
anything shameful. Even my use of vulgarity was done in a spirit of 
somewhat self-deprecating play or fun, and not in or with shame. If you 
felt shame, that was your doing and not mine.



with your bizarrely malicious rant


 You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but I disagree that my 
comments and observations about his immature attempts at censorship, and 
his deliberately dramatic, and gratuitously reproving, exit from the list 
constituted a "rant."


 Also, with regard to your characterization "malicious," I gotta say, 
"Honi soit qui mal y pense." I was having way too much fun to feel any 
malice. Sorry you didn't see the fun sufficiently to share in it. Maybe 
next time.


 I take your use of the term "bizarrely" as a compliment, and I am 
grateful to you for such flattery. In much the same way that Mel Brooks 
said it was good to be the king, I think that sometimes it's good to be 
bizarre. My listening to The Computer Guys radio show from the days of 
Derek McGinty, and my membership on this list, is proof enough of that.


towards someone who, at most, expressed disappointment in the quality of 
his entertainment.


 With all due respect, Jeff, can I call you Jeff? I think you got him 
all wrong. He was expressing disappointment with all of us for our failure 
to see automatically to his unspoken, arbitrary, subjective, and infantile 
expectations about the content of everybody else's posts to this list.


 As I see it, "the quality of his entertainment" ain't the list's 
problem to solve.



Dear god, lighten the f#$% up.


 Q. Why did Jeff want God to lighten the f#$% up?

 A. The f#$% was too dark to see clearly.


Go watch Ultimate Fighting or something.


 Enjoy that sort of thing, do you?

Bob

Thinking clearly and logically is hard. If it were easy, everyone would do it.

OK
End  




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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[MrMike6by9]

Seeing the Bill Nye post, I was reminded of a favorite song fragment ...

[quote]
he sun's a moon that warms you 
the moon's a sun with no heat 
the sky above is to remind you 
what's under your feet 
[unquote]


--- Ben Harper, "Engraved Invitation" - Both Sides of the Gun


--

Date:Sat, 18 Aug 2007 13:32:52 -0400
From:Steve Rigby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

Bill Nye, the harmless children's edu-tainer known as "The Science Guy,"
managed to offend a select group of adults in Waco, Texas at a
presentation, when he suggested that the moon does not emit light, but
instead reflects the light of the sun.


[ rest deleted for bevity]

--
When you were born you cried and the world rejoiced. Live your life so
that when you die the world cries and you rejoice.
- Anon



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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[db]

While I agree about the "delete key", he does have a point though.

The character and function of lists change as people who use the list  
change.  If a lot of people using this list start talking progressively 
more off topic, then it is common list progression that's what the list 
becomes progressively as the original topic contributors progressively 
drift away.


Lists are dynamic creatures.People don't  like to fuss with SPAM and 
at  some point all of those delete key clicks become laborious and not 
rewarding enough if there is no longer enough of the original content to 
balance things...


db

Melissa Bell wrote:
Nicely put for those who exercise their delete finger.  I have enjoyed 
the health care back-and-forth, and even the Bill Nye insert.  I went 
to the posting and saw where the Waco paper had pulled the article 
from their website.  See, computerspeak.   This is a great 
list-serve.  Use that old delete button.  All of us can slide things 
back on topic anytime.  It's called having a question and pressing 
send.   The responses will follow.


MB


On Aug 18, 2007, at 10:38 PM, Michel Lowe wrote:

No offense to the Windows or Mac fanatics, but when I see a thread 
that I'm

not so interested in I don't feel the necessity to read every follow up.
I've discovered the great utility of the delete key.  It bothers me 
naught

if members want to talk about health care or football or politics or
religion.  We usually get off on these tangents from a computer-related
starting point.  For the most part the list members are a pretty 
thoughtful
bunch and even when I disagree I can still learn something 
interesting if

only that we are a heterogeneous group with a diversity of opinions.

And there's always that delete key...
-Mike

__
Michel David Lowe
Purcellville, VA


-Original Message-
From: Computer Guys Announcements and Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric S. Sande
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 10:30 PM
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"


I think he enjoyed the computer talk here, but didn't like some of the
people.


Well, he seems to prefer orthodoxy to anarchy.  I don't think the 
medicine
discussion belongs here either, and what they do or don't do in Waco 
is a

matter of supreme indifference to me.

But I know how to read selectively, and for the most part this list 
stays

on topic.




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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[Mike Sloane]

The problems with this situation is that the whole discussion centers 
around interpretation. On one side is the fact that fundamentalists 
center their beliefs on the King James translation of ancient Hebrew 
texts (which were, of course, transcriptions of even more ancient oral 
tradition). And even with that, anyone can see that the light of the 
moon is certainly a "lesser light"  - the  source of illumination just 
happens to be external, rather then internal. The Bible doesn't seem to 
insist on the illumination being internal.


I agree with John - the problem isn't in the facts; it is in the 
presentation of the facts, and it appears that Mr. Nye was a little too 
glib/insensitive when presenting facts to people who aren't used to 
dealing with nuance. What might have seemed "clever" in a cosmopolitan 
environment came out "insulting" in a somewhat less sophisticated social 
environment (i.e. Waco TX). On the other hand, if only a handful of 
folks walked out on his presentation, that means the rest could 
comprehend the subject without any problem. After all, there are always 
going to be people who insist that the sun circles around the earth, no 
matter what kind of evidence there is to the contrary.


I can't wait until the reaction to the AP headlined article: "Artificial 
life likely in 3 to 10 years". 



Mike

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

It may be a bit late in the thread to return to the original debate.

However, being a highly secular person myself, I have to fault Mr.
Nye for having pointed out the "inaccuracy" of the biblical text as
part of his lecture.  Anybody who made it through elementary school
knows that the moon does not produce its own light.  The only
exception might be somebody so committed to literal interpretation
that they would refuse to believe empirical evidence if they thought
it contradicted scripture.  Such a person will not benefit from being
told anything contrary to their beliefs.

By seeming to challenge biblical text (even in a light-hearted
manner), Mr. Nye may have made more people uncomfortable than just
those who vocally opposed him.  Furthermore, it can be legitimately
claimed that the Moon does provide light at times when the Sun is not
below the horizon, which to me seems a legitimate interpretation of
the passage.

In my opinion, this kind of attitude gives secularists a bad name and
religious extremists ammunition they don't need.

--John Emmerling




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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

It may be a bit late in the thread to return to the original debate.

However, being a highly secular person myself, I have to fault Mr. Nye for 
having pointed out the "inaccuracy" of the biblical text as part of his 
lecture.  Anybody who made it through elementary school knows that the moon 
does not produce its own light.  The only exception might be somebody so 
committed to literal interpretation that they would refuse to believe empirical 
evidence if they thought it contradicted scripture.  Such a person will not 
benefit from being told anything contrary to their beliefs.

By seeming to challenge biblical text (even in a light-hearted manner), Mr. Nye 
may have made more people uncomfortable than just those who vocally opposed 
him.  Furthermore, it can be legitimately claimed that the Moon does provide 
light at times when the Sun is not below the horizon, which to me seems a 
legitimate interpretation of the passage.

In my opinion, this kind of attitude gives secularists a bad name and religious 
extremists ammunition they don't need.

--John Emmerling



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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[Jeff Wright]

> >He's signed off, so he didn't see any of that.
> >
> >What a waste of effort.
> 
>   Thanks for your comment and your sentiment, Eric, but, if you
> look
> closely at my post, you'll see that I cc'd him. That was my way of
> taking
> such an eventuality into account.
> 
>  Bob

Bob, can I call you Bob?  As someone who's probably been over the top on
more than one occasion in my years on the list, I gotta say, you even shamed
me tonight with your bizarrely malicious rant towards someone who, at most,
expressed disappointment in the quality of his entertainment.

Dear god, lighten the f#$% up.  Go watch Ultimate Fighting or something.



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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[Eric S. Sande]

Thanks for your comment and your sentiment, Eric, but, if you look closely 
at my post, you'll see that I cc'd him. That was my way of taking such an 
eventuality into account.


Whatever.  His beliefs are clear and as I see it there's no need to beat it
into the ground.  If he doesn't want to be here I respect his decision.

We list members definitely have diverse backgrounds, beliefs, and 
lifestyles.


But that is one of the things that makes this an entertaining place to 
visit.


If everyone here was a white male Republican bicycle riding gamer, the
discussion would be pretty bland.

Luckily that's not the case.

I think we all bring strengths to this forum, and we should continue to 
maintain

our normal standards of quality and effectiveness.

In a family friendly mode.  There actually isn't room for profanity here.



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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[Robert Michael Abrams]

At 05:46 PM 8/19/07, Eric S. Sande <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Thinking clearly and logically is hard. If it were easy, everyone would 
do it.


He's signed off, so he didn't see any of that.

What a waste of effort.


 Thanks for your comment and your sentiment, Eric, but, if you look 
closely at my post, you'll see that I cc'd him. That was my way of taking 
such an eventuality into account.


Bob

Thinking clearly and logically is hard. If it were easy, everyone would do it.

OK
End 




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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[Eric S. Sande]

Thinking clearly and logically is hard. If it were easy, everyone would do 
it.


He's signed off, so he didn't see any of that.

What a waste of effort.



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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[Robert Michael Abrams]

At 05:29 PM 8/18/07, Jeff Morris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I'm going to remove myself from membership from this list.


 Buh-bye!

My question is a simple one.  When did this list get hijacked by 
extremists who think it's a forum to insist on socialized medicine and to 
bash Christians?


 I have a BETTER question. When did this list get hijacked by whining 
censors and Das Topikpolizei propagandists who use hyperbolic terms like 
"hijacked" and "extremists" and "bash?"


 If the list had been hijacked, then, by definition, nobody else would 
be able to discuss anything the hijackers didn't want discussed. So, your 
characterization is just plain bizzonga. With flies all over it. I actually 
wanted to say "bullshit," which would have been more in character for me, 
but there's a kind of unwritten rule on this list that we keep those kinds 
of vulgarities to a minimum.


 But, this time, I looked at that ol' unwritten rule, and I said, 
"Fuck it!"



What does that have to do with computers?


 Who cares? If you don't like the subject of a post, then delete it, 
and leave the rest of us alone to read it, delete it, or respond to it, as 
WE choose.


For the record...I don't know any Christian who thinks the moon actually 
lights up. We don't think it's made of cheese either.


 What does that have to do with computers?

But it really doesn't matter, because this is a computer list, or at least 
it used to be.


 It still is, your opinion to the contrary notwithstanding.


My personal beliefs should never be discussed and neither should yours.


 That's just YOUR personal belief. According to you, you shouldn't 
have discussed it. But, then, that's just MY personal belief.



Who cares what your political views are?


 Who wants to know, and why do you ask?


It's too bad.


 B-b-b-b-b-b-b-bad.

I wish there was a moderator who would take control because I don't want 
to hear liberals spouting their lunacy any more than I want to read the 
extreme right venting theirs.


 That's just YOUR personal belief. Which you said you shouldn't discuss.

 The fact of the matter is that you want to censor and control the 
content of an unmoderated list, which is the Internet equivalent of trying 
to divide by zero. The list is unmoderated, which means people can say 
whatever the hell they want, about whatever subject they want, and NOBODY 
has to read any given post, and NOBODY has to respond to any given post. If 
Steve wants to talk about theocrats in Waco, and nobody wants to engage him 
in that subject, then his thread will die a quick death. If people want to 
respond by discussing the interface (if any) of science and religion, then 
the thread will last until it finishes, or morphs into something else. You 
are free to delete every single post by Steve, if you want, and every 
single post by those who discuss the Bill Nye/Waco post, if you want. No 
part of that discussion will be at your expense. You don't have to read a 
word of it. BUT: You have no right to deprive those who enjoy that 
discussion the pleasure of it, simply because you have this infantile 
expectation that an unmoderated list is automatically supposed to conform 
to your subjectively pure and orthodox notion of it.



I want to learn more about computers, and I want to help others if I can.


 Then why are you sulking and pouting that you are going to pick up 
your marbles and go home, just because you are powerless to prevent a 
discussion AMONG OTHERS, which discussion you are free to ignore with impunity?


 It sounds like you are more interested in everybody talking about 
only YOUR PERSONAL narrow range of subjects, and nothing else, rather than 
being of "help" to anyone. You would rather control us than help us, it 
looks like, and, now that you have discovered you can't control us, you're 
going to take a powder.


 As Pee Wee Herman would say: "Ral mature!"


A good moderator would insist that we stick to the topic.


 That's just YOUR personal belief. Actually, a good moderator would 
have a witty, clever, pithy, and funny remark to make about Bill Nye, Waco 
theocrats, and/or Steve Rigby. He or she might even be vulgar.



I would be thrilled if that would happen.


 You must be easily entertained.


Obviously there isn't a moderator.


 No, there isn't one. Instead, there are about 100 of us. We moderate 
the list en masse. And we do a pretty damned good job, too.



This is no place for me.


 That's just YOUR personal belief.


I know you don't care.


 No fair. You peeked.


I don't care that you don't care.


 Which is why you took pains to point it out.


I wanted to voice my opinion about it before I left.


 What does that have to do with computers?


It's too bad...


 As I see it, YOU are the piteous character here, and not us.


For those of you who do stick to topic of computers and I know you are here.


 Where?

Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[Steve Rigby]

On Aug 19, 2007, at 2:43 AM, mike wrote:

OK, I did click the link..it sent me to someone's blog.  When I 
clicked on

the trib article from Waco, I got an error page.  So my question is has
anyone actually read the article?


  Apparently so.  The Waco newspaper appears to have deleted the 
article from their website although it is said to have been printed in 
the newspaper which has almost no distribution beyond Waco.


  Steve



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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God 'Science Guy'

[Wayne Dernoncourt]

Jeff Morris
 
> My question is a simple one.  When did this list get
> hijacked by extremists who think it's a forum to
> insist on socialized medicine and to bash Christians?

I started the thread about medicine looking for a link
to get information about nationalized medicine versus
the status quo.  I really didn't want to have a
discussion here.

> What does that have to do with computers?

> For the record...I don't know any Christian who thinks
> the moon actually lights up.  We don't think it's made
> of cheese either.  But it really doesn't matter, because
> this is a computer list, or at least it used to be.  My
> personal beliefs should never be discussed and neither
> should yours.  Who cares what your political views are?

I know of more than a few people who take the bible
literally, no analogies are involved.  I don't have a clue
if they are a majority or just a vocal minority.  As you
pointed out, that is not really an appropriate discussion
for here.  An appropriate discussion could be how
technology impacts the discussion.

-- 
Take care  | This clown speaks for himself, his job doesn't
Wayne D.   | supply this, at least not directly
Imagination is more important than knowledge! - Einstein



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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[Melissa Bell]

Nicely put for those who exercise their delete finger.  I have  
enjoyed the health care back-and-forth, and even the Bill Nye  
insert.  I went to the posting and saw where the Waco paper had  
pulled the article from their website.  See, computerspeak.   This is  
a great list-serve.  Use that old delete button.  All of us can slide  
things back on topic anytime.  It's called having a question and  
pressing send.   The responses will follow.


MB


On Aug 18, 2007, at 10:38 PM, Michel Lowe wrote:

No offense to the Windows or Mac fanatics, but when I see a thread  
that I'm
not so interested in I don't feel the necessity to read every  
follow up.
I've discovered the great utility of the delete key.  It bothers me  
naught

if members want to talk about health care or football or politics or
religion.  We usually get off on these tangents from a computer- 
related
starting point.  For the most part the list members are a pretty  
thoughtful
bunch and even when I disagree I can still learn something  
interesting if

only that we are a heterogeneous group with a diversity of opinions.

And there's always that delete key...
-Mike

__
Michel David Lowe
Purcellville, VA


-Original Message-
From: Computer Guys Announcements and Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric S. Sande
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 10:30 PM
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

I think he enjoyed the computer talk here, but didn't like some  
of the

people.


Well, he seems to prefer orthodoxy to anarchy.  I don't think the  
medicine
discussion belongs here either, and what they do or don't do in  
Waco is a

matter of supreme indifference to me.

But I know how to read selectively, and for the most part this  
list stays

on topic.



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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[Eric S. Sande]

So my question is has anyone actually read the article?


That's an excellent question.  I haven't, but it appears that this
might have happened.

I find it hard to believe that hundreds of Internet references could
be wrong.

:-)



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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[mike]

OK, I did click the link..it sent me to someone's blog.  When I clicked on
the trib article from Waco, I got an error page.  So my question is has
anyone actually read the article?

Mike

On 8/18/07, Rev. Stewart Marshall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> As the resident theologian or heretic (depending on who you ask) let
> me comment.
>
> I have not read the article that was pulled from the Waco paper, but
> it does not surprise me.  The acceptance of technology is difficult
> in a culture that wants to stay uninformed and uneducated (Oh by the
> way I live in Southern Alabama so I speak out of experience.)  I
> belong to a church body that maintains in its beliefs the literal 6
> day creation (now you know why some call me a heretic)
>
> The south in general has resisted and been passed by, by
> technology.  My youngest was just able to take courses on line the
> past school year.  This was something new to these folks.  Ten years
> ago (yes 10) my children in then elementary school could take
> satellite courses offered by a little rural school in Wisconsin (the
> graduating class averaged 25 students)!  They think it is acceptable
> down here to let students do research and work on computers that for
> the most part have not been updated.  (Many still run 95 or possibly 98SE)
>
> So it does not surprise me that some would be offended by what Bill
> Nye said.  They do not want to know any better.
>
> Now with that being said it is possible that the way Bill said it
> offended them.  I don't know I was not there to hear exactly what was
> being said.
>
> Many folks do not know the history of the Bible (I do not mean the
> Bible itself, but how the Bible was put together) and have put
> worship of the Bible ahead of worship of what the Bible testifies
> too.  It was never meant to be read and understood literally.
>
> Yes this has a lot to do with computers, as computers are a tool.  A
> tool that God has given us to use and make use of.  It is what we can
> do with that tool that matters.
>
> I read an article that the Lutheran Church of Sweden (A state church)
> recently refused to allow a churches Bell tower to be used to house a
> Wireless broadband transmitter for the community because they were
> concerned about what people would be able to do with that Internet
> connection (read on-line porn)  Talk about being anti
> technology!  (presently the town only has dial up access.)
>
> When religion forgets what it is all about (pointing to God) it quits
> being religion and it starts being a god.
>
> Stewart
>
>
> At 08:50 PM 8/18/2007, you wrote:
> >On Aug 18, 2007, at 8:29 PM, Jeff Morris wrote:
> >
> >>I know you don't care.  I don't care that you don't care.  I wanted
> >>to voice my opinion about it before I left.  It's too bad...
> >>
> >>For those of you who do stick to topic of computers and I know you
> >>are here...good luck and thank you for the help I have received
> >>here over the years.
> >
> >   Well, I guess I've done it now.  That one post about Bill Nye
> > must have been the proverbial straw.
> >
> >   I do wish the guy had read the story, though.  He would have
> > discovered what particularly interested me, and it was not how
> > those few silly folks reacted in Waco.  We have all seen or heard
> > of that long ago, and there are some of them in any camp.  The
> > really interesting thing, and certainly related to computing, was
> > how the Waco newspaper that first reported the event took the story
> > down from their website in short order.
> >
> >   Maybe Mr. Morris would like to come back and be that moderator he
> > says we need.  If he does, I'll make sure to insert the word
> > 'computer' into each paragraph at least once.  Gosh, though, I do
> > wish that he had spoken up sooner instead of waiting until the
> > tolling of the bell.  I think he enjoyed the computer talk here,
> > but didn't like some of the people.
> >
> >   Steve
>
> Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Prince of Peace
> Ozark, AL  SL 82
>
>
> 
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>


**

Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

As the resident theologian or heretic (depending on who you ask) let 
me comment.


I have not read the article that was pulled from the Waco paper, but 
it does not surprise me.  The acceptance of technology is difficult 
in a culture that wants to stay uninformed and uneducated (Oh by the 
way I live in Southern Alabama so I speak out of experience.)  I 
belong to a church body that maintains in its beliefs the literal 6 
day creation (now you know why some call me a heretic)


The south in general has resisted and been passed by, by 
technology.  My youngest was just able to take courses on line the 
past school year.  This was something new to these folks.  Ten years 
ago (yes 10) my children in then elementary school could take 
satellite courses offered by a little rural school in Wisconsin (the 
graduating class averaged 25 students)!  They think it is acceptable 
down here to let students do research and work on computers that for 
the most part have not been updated.  (Many still run 95 or possibly 98SE)


So it does not surprise me that some would be offended by what Bill 
Nye said.  They do not want to know any better.


Now with that being said it is possible that the way Bill said it 
offended them.  I don't know I was not there to hear exactly what was 
being said.


Many folks do not know the history of the Bible (I do not mean the 
Bible itself, but how the Bible was put together) and have put 
worship of the Bible ahead of worship of what the Bible testifies 
too.  It was never meant to be read and understood literally.


Yes this has a lot to do with computers, as computers are a tool.  A 
tool that God has given us to use and make use of.  It is what we can 
do with that tool that matters.


I read an article that the Lutheran Church of Sweden (A state church) 
recently refused to allow a churches Bell tower to be used to house a 
Wireless broadband transmitter for the community because they were 
concerned about what people would be able to do with that Internet 
connection (read on-line porn)  Talk about being anti 
technology!  (presently the town only has dial up access.)


When religion forgets what it is all about (pointing to God) it quits 
being religion and it starts being a god.


Stewart


At 08:50 PM 8/18/2007, you wrote:

On Aug 18, 2007, at 8:29 PM, Jeff Morris wrote:

I know you don't care.  I don't care that you don't care.  I wanted 
to voice my opinion about it before I left.  It's too bad...


For those of you who do stick to topic of computers and I know you 
are here...good luck and thank you for the help I have received 
here over the years.


  Well, I guess I've done it now.  That one post about Bill Nye 
must have been the proverbial straw.


  I do wish the guy had read the story, though.  He would have 
discovered what particularly interested me, and it was not how 
those few silly folks reacted in Waco.  We have all seen or heard 
of that long ago, and there are some of them in any camp.  The 
really interesting thing, and certainly related to computing, was 
how the Waco newspaper that first reported the event took the story 
down from their website in short order.


  Maybe Mr. Morris would like to come back and be that moderator he 
says we need.  If he does, I'll make sure to insert the word 
'computer' into each paragraph at least once.  Gosh, though, I do 
wish that he had spoken up sooner instead of waiting until the 
tolling of the bell.  I think he enjoyed the computer talk here, 
but didn't like some of the people.


  Steve


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Prince of Peace
Ozark, AL  SL 82



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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[Michel Lowe]

No offense to the Windows or Mac fanatics, but when I see a thread that I'm
not so interested in I don't feel the necessity to read every follow up.
I've discovered the great utility of the delete key.  It bothers me naught
if members want to talk about health care or football or politics or
religion.  We usually get off on these tangents from a computer-related
starting point.  For the most part the list members are a pretty thoughtful
bunch and even when I disagree I can still learn something interesting if
only that we are a heterogeneous group with a diversity of opinions.

And there's always that delete key...
-Mike

__
Michel David Lowe
Purcellville, VA

> -Original Message-
> From: Computer Guys Announcements and Discussion List
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric S. Sande
> Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 10:30 PM
> To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
> Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"
> 
> >I think he enjoyed the computer talk here, but didn't like some of the
> >people.
> 
> Well, he seems to prefer orthodoxy to anarchy.  I don't think the medicine
> discussion belongs here either, and what they do or don't do in Waco is a
> matter of supreme indifference to me.
> 
> But I know how to read selectively, and for the most part this list stays
> on topic.



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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[Eric S. Sande]

I think he enjoyed the computer talk here, but didn't like some of the 
people.


Well, he seems to prefer orthodoxy to anarchy.  I don't think the medicine
discussion belongs here either, and what they do or don't do in Waco is a
matter of supreme indifference to me.

But I know how to read selectively, and for the most part this list stays
on topic.



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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[Steve Rigby]

On Aug 18, 2007, at 8:29 PM, Jeff Morris wrote:

I know you don't care.  I don't care that you don't care.  I wanted to 
voice my opinion about it before I left.  It's too bad...


For those of you who do stick to topic of computers and I know you are 
here...good luck and thank you for the help I have received here over 
the years.


  Well, I guess I've done it now.  That one post about Bill Nye must 
have been the proverbial straw.


  I do wish the guy had read the story, though.  He would have 
discovered what particularly interested me, and it was not how those 
few silly folks reacted in Waco.  We have all seen or heard of that 
long ago, and there are some of them in any camp.  The really 
interesting thing, and certainly related to computing, was how the Waco 
newspaper that first reported the event took the story down from their 
website in short order.


  Maybe Mr. Morris would like to come back and be that moderator he 
says we need.  If he does, I'll make sure to insert the word 'computer' 
into each paragraph at least once.  Gosh, though, I do wish that he had 
spoken up sooner instead of waiting until the tolling of the bell.  I 
think he enjoyed the computer talk here, but didn't like some of the 
people.


  Steve



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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[John DeCarlo]

LOL, nice rant, having nothing to do with computers.

-- 
John DeCarlo, My Views Are My Own



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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[Jeff Myers]

"Some moder day countries..."--our own comes to mind.

Jeff Myers

> -Original Message-
> From: Tony B [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 3:11 PM
> Subject: Re: Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"
> 
> The "lesser light" referred to is moonshine. I see no contradiction.
> The person to be ashamed here is the people's pastors, who clearly 
> haven't made much effort to teach them how to read the bible.
> 
> Then again, some modern day countries are run by people like those, so 
> I guess it's our duty to try to understand them.
> 
> 
> On 8/18/07, Steve Rigby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Bill Nye, the harmless children's edu-tainer known as "The
> Science Guy,"
> > managed to offend a select group of adults in Waco, Texas at a 
> > presentation, when he suggested that the moon does not emit
> light, but
> > instead reflects the light of the sun.
> > reads: "God made two great lights -- the greater light to
> govern the
> > day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made
> the stars."



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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[Jeff Morris]

I'm going to remove myself from membership from this list.  I was a member 
years ago and what a great list it was.  I enjoy helping people with computer 
problems when I can...but more importantly, I learned a lot from the members of 
this list.  I haven't been a member for a few years and rejoined.

My question is a simple one.  When did this list get hijacked by extremists who 
think it's a forum to insist on socialized medicine and to bash Christians?

What does that have to do with computers?

For the record...I don't know any Christian who thinks the moon actually lights 
up.  We don't think it's made of cheese either.  But it really doesn't matter, 
because this is a computer list, or at least it used to be.  My personal 
beliefs should never be discussed and neither should yours.  Who cares what 
your political views are?

It's too bad.  I wish there was a moderator who would take control because I 
don't want to hear liberals spouting their lunacy any more than I want to read 
the extreme right venting theirs.  I want to learn more about computers, and I 
want to help others if I can.

A good moderator would insist that we stick to the topic.  I would be thrilled 
if that would happen.  Obviously there isn't a moderator.  This is no place for 
me.

I know you don't care.  I don't care that you don't care.  I wanted to voice my 
opinion about it before I left.  It's too bad...

For those of you who do stick to topic of computers and I know you are 
here...good luck and thank you for the help I have received here over the years.



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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[Daniel Else]

Having lived a bit of my childhood in the Great Lone Star State, I can tell you 
that the town isn't called "Waco" for nothing.

And the Texas Board of Education, because of its command of market share, 
exerts a strong effect on the content of the nation's textbook supply.

Oh, and the President likes to consider himself a Texan.

Coincidence?

Dan :-)



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Re: [CGUYS] Bill Nye, the anti-God "Science Guy"

[Tony B]

The "lesser light" referred to is moonshine. I see no contradiction.
The person to be ashamed here is the people's pastors, who clearly
haven't made much effort to teach them how to read the bible.

Then again, some modern day countries are run by people like those, so
I guess it's our duty to try to understand them.


On 8/18/07, Steve Rigby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Bill Nye, the harmless children's edu-tainer known as "The Science Guy,"
> managed to offend a select group of adults in Waco, Texas at a
> presentation, when he suggested that the moon does not emit light, but
> instead reflects the light of the sun.
> reads: "God made two great lights -- the greater light to govern the day
> and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars."



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