Re: [Cooker] user login is very long, while root login is very fast
At 08:49 PM 1/22/03 -0500, you (Felix Miata) wrote: Part 1.2 Name: test.py Type: Plain Text (text/plain) Right, so from this script the fact of opening all devices known has been rather fast I think ? about 5 seconds ? And this on one of these computers of yours where initialization of devfs takes more than one minute and login 30 seconds or more, that's right ? Gerard
Re: [Cooker] user login is very long, while root login is very fast
Gerard Patel wrote: At 08:49 PM 1/22/03 -0500, you (Felix Miata) wrote: Part 1.2 Name: test.py Type: Plain Text (text/plain) Right, so from this script the fact of opening all devices known has been rather fast I think ? about 5 seconds ? And this on one of these computers of yours where initialization of devfs takes more than one minute and login 30 seconds or more, that's right ? AFAICT. -- There's nothing so absurd that if you repeat it often enough, people will believe it.William James Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/
Re: [Cooker] user login is very long, while root login is very fast
Gerard Patel wrote: At 09:42 AM 1/16/03 -0500, you (Felix Miata) wrote: 1505 (64 second last non-root login; 9.0; users 501,502,503,551,553,555,556,587; all group 501; 550Mhz) 1562 (89 second last non-root login; 9.0; users 500,501,502,503,504,505,506,507; all group 500; 500Mhz) 1470 (5.5 second last non-root login; rc3; users 501,502,503; 550Mhz) LSI 53c8xx /dev/sdc7 / on first machine, /dev/hda7 / on the others. I think to understand that you have around 1500 entries in your /dev directory. That's about as much as my installation. I don't have much knowledge about devfs; based on another post, it seems that opening a file under /dev can load a kernel module, something that can be more or less slow. One possibility could be that on your system a particular module is very slow at initialization. I have attached a little script to try to test for such behaviour. Run it as python test.py as root, under a console (X Window not started), with a floppy in the drive, and report the result. The script reports any open/close taking more than 0.1 seconds. On my system only /dev/psaux is reported (the script reports also numerous open errors) Gerard Patel --- Part 1.2 Name: test.py Type: Plain Text (text/plain) [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/initrd' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raminitrd' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/log' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/gpmctl' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/adsp' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/sequencer' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/sequencer2' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw1' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw2' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw3' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw4' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw5' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw6' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw7' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw8' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw9' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw10' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw11' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw12' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw13' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw14' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw15' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw16' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw17' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw18' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw19' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw20' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw21' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw22' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw23' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw24' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw25' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw26' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw27' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw28' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw29' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw30' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw31' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw32' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw33' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw34' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw35' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw36' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw37' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw38' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw39' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw40' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw41' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw42' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw43' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw44' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw45' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw46' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw47' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw48' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw49' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw50' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw51' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw52' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw53' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw54' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw55' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw56' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw57' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw58' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw59' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw60' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw61' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw62' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/raw/raw63' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/rd/initrd' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/sound/adsp' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/sound/sequencer' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/sound/sequencer2' [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/snd/controlC1' /dev/snd/controlC1 0.186278939247 [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/snd/controlC2' /dev/snd/controlC2 0.185494065285 [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/snd/controlC3' /dev/snd/controlC3 0.185328960419 [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/snd/controlC4' /dev/snd/controlC4 0.185424923897 [Errno 19] No such device: '/dev/snd/controlC5'
Re: [Cooker] user login is very long, while root login is very fast
Here is another way to see what's happening during devfsd startup : - Stop devfsd with service devfsd stop - Start it manually with devfsd /dev -t 2 You will see what is done during startup. Hit Ctrl-S from time to time to interrupt the scrolling and see what it is working on (then Ctrl-Q to continue). And you will see that the scripts /etc/dynamic/scripts/... are run many many times. (The reason is in the config file /etc/devfs/conf.d/dynamic.conf) One of these scripts is /etc/dynamic/scripts/.part.script. This script makes a call to a perl script : ### /usr/sbin/drakupdate_fstab ###. And THIS script is slow (too many invocations of use...? slow startup of perl interpreter ?) Even when you run it with no argument, it takes almost half a second to execute. And this half-second will be repeated many times, because this script is called many times. So there are three things wrong: 1) There are too many scripts executed during devfsd startup 2) The scripts have a too deep level of sub-calls (scripts that calls scripts that calls scripts) 3) One of them is a slow perl script, executed many times. Gerard Patel wrote: At 09:42 AM 1/16/03 -0500, you (Felix Miata) wrote: 1505 (64 second last non-root login; 9.0; users 501,502,503,551,553,555,556,587; all group 501; 550Mhz) 1562 (89 second last non-root login; 9.0; users 500,501,502,503,504,505,506,507; all group 500; 500Mhz) 1470 (5.5 second last non-root login; rc3; users 501,502,503; 550Mhz) LSI 53c8xx /dev/sdc7 / on first machine, /dev/hda7 / on the others. I think to understand that you have around 1500 entries in your /dev directory. That's about as much as my installation. I don't have much knowledge about devfs; based on another post, it seems that opening a file under /dev can load a kernel module, something that can be more or less slow. One possibility could be that on your system a particular module is very slow at initialization. I have attached a little script to try to test for such behaviour. Run it as python test.py as root, under a console (X Window not started), with a floppy in the drive, and report the result. The script reports any open/close taking more than 0.1 seconds. On my system only /dev/psaux is reported (the script reports also numerous open errors) Gerard Patel
Re: [Cooker] user login is very long, while root login is very fast
At 04:04 PM 1/20/03 +0100, you (Christophe Combelles) wrote: Here is another way to see what's happening during devfsd startup : snip Yes, you already posted this; I have seen your post. I understand that you may have explained why devfs start is slow in the general case all right; but the original poster's times are way beyond anything I (and anyone else as far as I know) have seen, so I think there is another problem in this case. Gerard
Re: [Cooker] user login is very long, while root login is very fast
At 09:42 AM 1/16/03 -0500, you (Felix Miata) wrote:
1505 (64 second last non-root login; 9.0; users
501,502,503,551,553,555,556,587; all group 501; 550Mhz)
1562 (89 second last non-root login; 9.0; users
500,501,502,503,504,505,506,507; all group 500; 500Mhz)
1470 (5.5 second last non-root login; rc3; users 501,502,503; 550Mhz)
LSI 53c8xx /dev/sdc7 / on first machine, /dev/hda7 / on the others.
I think to understand that you have around 1500 entries in your /dev directory.
That's about as much as my installation.
I don't have much knowledge about devfs; based on another post, it seems that
opening a file under /dev can load a kernel module, something that can
be more or less slow. One possibility could be that on your system a
particular module is very slow at initialization.
I have attached a little script to try to test for such behaviour.
Run it as
python test.py
as root, under a console (X Window not started), with a floppy in
the drive, and report the result.
The script reports any open/close taking more than 0.1 seconds.
On my system only /dev/psaux is reported (the script reports also
numerous open errors)
Gerard Patel
import os
import sys
import time
def f(arg, dir, fnames):
for n in fnames:
sname = dir + '/' + n
tbegin = time.time()
try:
h = os.open(sname, os.O_RDONLY)
os.close(h)
except:
exc_type, exc_value, exc_trace = sys.exc_info()
print str(exc_value)
tend = time.time()
if ((tend-tbegin) 0.1):
print sname + ' ' + str(tend-tbegin)
if __name__ == '__main__':
os.path.walk('/dev', f, None)
Re: [Cooker] user login is very long, while root login is very fast
But why is it necessary to change the perms of the devices ?? This should be only a matter of groups. For example /dev/mixer should always belong to root:audio with perms crw-rw, and a user should be in the group audio. So even ater login, the /dev entry has not been changed, but only the users of the group audio could access /dev/mixer. And when a user is created, it should automatically belong to a series of standard groups like audio, etc. If permissions are not changed, everybody able to log via ssh on my computer, and who belongs to audio, can launch mpg123 la_danse_des_canards.mp3 of course, they can also launch aumix to make that everybody in the house will hear this wonderful song. i will not even talk about reading /dev/dsp with a microphone plugged in. The problem is the same for all devices ( in fact, only sound, floppy, various terminal and cd permissions are changed ). Once someone is logged and in a group ( or not in a group ) , you cannot change this. You need to log out and log in for changes to make effect ( as far as I know, I maybe wrong ) Mick
Re: [Cooker] user login is very long, while root login is very fast
Gerard Patel wrote: At 07:16 PM 1/15/03 -0500, you wrote: I wouldn't know how to begin tracking it down. I asked for help on the subject: Login Takes An Eternity on 9.0 on the expert list Tue, 10 Dec 2002 23:52:55 -0500. The thread produced no usable help. I am not subscribed to this list, could you be kind enough to say what is the speed of the offending computer ? On my box login feels somewhat sluggish, I have not timed it, but it seems between one and 2 seconds; I have a 700 Mhz box, if your machine is a Pentium 60, this could explain many things. Not that I mean that in this case your problem would not be a valid one; it's just necessary to understand first why you see this particular problem. Two different boxes, both 550 Mhz. Last timed login: 17 seconds. Might be a devfs problem. During boot: Running DevFs daemon displayed on the screen for 2 minutes, 19 seconds. 28 seconds later, tty1 went blank as X started and changed to tty7. IOW, the devfs startup message is gone considerably before X ever starts. OS/2 Warp 4.52 boots in 79 seconds. W2K boots in 123 seconds. 9.0 takes 205 seconds to X login manager, 220 seconds to tty1 login prompt, 270 seconds until KDE is done loading, not counting time spent typing in a password. Total 9.0 boot time, 4.5 minutes, more than half of which is devfs init. -- There's nothing so absurd that if you repeat it often enough, people will believe it.William James Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/
Re: [Cooker] user login is very long, while root login is very fast
Felix Miata wrote: Two different boxes, both 550 Mhz. Last timed login: 17 seconds. Might be a devfs problem. During boot: Running DevFs daemon displayed on the screen for 2 minutes, 19 seconds. 28 seconds later, tty1 went blank as X started and changed to tty7. IOW, the devfs startup message is gone considerably before X ever starts. OS/2 Warp 4.52 boots in 79 seconds. W2K boots in 123 seconds. 9.0 takes 205 seconds to X login manager, 220 seconds to tty1 login prompt, 270 seconds until KDE is done loading, not counting time spent typing in a password. Total 9.0 boot time, 4.5 minutes, more than half of which is devfs init. Which is why devfs shouldn't be used for diskless terminals (ie why LTSP is much faster than Mandrake's terminal server). LTSP running on a p90/16MB ram box off a Mandrake 8.1 server booted to a kdm login in 45 seconfs (ie faster than any of of the other OSs on much faster hardware). It would be nice if devfs startup could be made faster. Maybe on some machines devfs is a bad idea ... Buchan -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
Re: [Cooker] user login is very long, while root login is very fast
On Thursday 16 January 2003 00:14, Austin Acton wrote: On Wed, 2003-01-15 at 17:33, Buchan Milne wrote: Would you rather a newbie has to figure out the 17 groups he needs to be a member of to use his hardware? Believe me, I was never proposing that gentoo has a better system. It was supposed to be sarcastic; like the only place gentoo can prove they are faster is at login. I think we can all afford the 3 seconds. Austin Or do it in a daemon, so the login proceeds apace. -- John Allen, Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Cooker] user login is very long, while root login is very fast
OK, I had not thought of this cases. You're right for la_danse_des_canards. It could be horrible... But why is it so long to change these perms ? How is managed the list of devices to change ? Michael Scherer wrote: But why is it necessary to change the perms of the devices ?? This should be only a matter of groups. For example /dev/mixer should always belong to root:audio with perms crw-rw, and a user should be in the group audio. So even ater login, the /dev entry has not been changed, but only the users of the group audio could access /dev/mixer. And when a user is created, it should automatically belong to a series of standard groups like audio, etc. If permissions are not changed, everybody able to log via ssh on my computer, and who belongs to audio, can launch mpg123 la_danse_des_canards.mp3 of course, they can also launch aumix to make that everybody in the house will hear this wonderful song. i will not even talk about reading /dev/dsp with a microphone plugged in. The problem is the same for all devices ( in fact, only sound, floppy, various terminal and cd permissions are changed ). Once someone is logged and in a group ( or not in a group ) , you cannot change this. You need to log out and log in for changes to make effect ( as far as I know, I maybe wrong ) Mick
Re: [Cooker] user login is very long, while root login is very fast
WIth athlon 1,2GHz, it takes about 4 seconds for me, either on 9.0 or 9.1b1 If devfs is unmounted, I get instant login. Buchan Milne wrote: Felix Miata wrote: Two different boxes, both 550 Mhz. Last timed login: 17 seconds. Might be a devfs problem. During boot: Running DevFs daemon displayed on the screen for 2 minutes, 19 seconds. 28 seconds later, tty1 went blank as X started and changed to tty7. IOW, the devfs startup message is gone considerably before X ever starts. OS/2 Warp 4.52 boots in 79 seconds. W2K boots in 123 seconds. 9.0 takes 205 seconds to X login manager, 220 seconds to tty1 login prompt, 270 seconds until KDE is done loading, not counting time spent typing in a password. Total 9.0 boot time, 4.5 minutes, more than half of which is devfs init. Which is why devfs shouldn't be used for diskless terminals (ie why LTSP is much faster than Mandrake's terminal server). LTSP running on a p90/16MB ram box off a Mandrake 8.1 server booted to a kdm login in 45 seconfs (ie faster than any of of the other OSs on much faster hardware). It would be nice if devfs startup could be made faster. Maybe on some machines devfs is a bad idea ... Buchan
Re: [Cooker] user login is very long, while root login is very fast
Are you sure this is a first login ? Because when you or another user is already logged, the login is as fast as root. Luca Olivetti wrote: Felix Miata wrote: 1973. I just booted 9.0 on my W98 machine and it took 17 seconds flat on VC4, much too long. A console login is almost instantaneus here (9.0). Maybe what's causing the slowdown is something else? (/etc/nsswitch.conf?)
Re: [Cooker] user login is very long, while root login is very fast
At 03:52 AM 1/16/03 -0500, you wrote: snip Two different boxes, both 550 Mhz. Last timed login: 17 seconds. Might be a devfs problem. During boot: Running DevFs daemon displayed on the screen for 2 minutes, 19 seconds. 28 seconds later, tty1 went blank as X started and changed to tty7. IOW, the devfs startup message is gone considerably before X ever starts. 2 minutes... this is a huge problem. My box stays for about 8 seconds on the 'running devfs'. It's way too long, at least 3 times what 9.0 is taking, but still your 2 minutes show a specific problem; here are my numbers : [gerard@duron dev]$ cd /dev [gerard@duron dev]$ du -a | wc -l 1433 [gerard@duron dev]$ what do you have ? Gerard
Re: [Cooker] user login is very long, while root login is very fast
Gerard Patel wrote: At 03:52 AM 1/16/03 -0500, you wrote: Two different boxes, both 550 Mhz. Last timed login: 17 seconds. Might be a devfs problem. During boot: Running DevFs daemon displayed on the screen for 2 minutes, 19 seconds. 28 seconds later, tty1 went blank as X started and changed to tty7. IOW, the devfs startup message is gone considerably before X ever starts. 2 minutes... this is a huge problem. My box stays for about 8 seconds on the 'running devfs'. It's way too long, at least 3 times what 9.0 is taking, but still your 2 minutes show a specific problem; here are my numbers : [gerard@duron dev]$ cd /dev [gerard@duron dev]$ du -a | wc -l 1433 [gerard@duron dev]$ what do you have ? 1505 (64 second last non-root login; 9.0; users 501,502,503,551,553,555,556,587; all group 501; 550Mhz) 1562 (89 second last non-root login; 9.0; users 500,501,502,503,504,505,506,507; all group 500; 500Mhz) 1470 (5.5 second last non-root login; rc3; users 501,502,503; 550Mhz) LSI 53c8xx /dev/sdc7 / on first machine, /dev/hda7 / on the others. -- There's nothing so absurd that if you repeat it often enough, people will believe it.William James Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/
Re: [Cooker] user login is very long, while root login is very fast
On Thursday 16 January 2003 15:42, Felix Miata wrote: Gerard Patel wrote: At 03:52 AM 1/16/03 -0500, you wrote: [ snip a lot ] Well, I had the exact same problem after installing 9.0 on my laptop. This is a rather old one, with Celeron 300 Mhz and not really fast ide disk, so any unnecessary operations during the login is easily noticeable. After boot completed, I noticed login with root was instantanneous, while login with any other user took 5 seconds or so. As pointed, the problem comes from devfs default configuration. By default, devfs will MODLOAD any module which can't be lookep up. See devfsd.conf : # Enable module autoloading. You may comment this out if you don't use # autoloading LOOKUP.* MODLOAD In my case, this loaded ide, floppy, cdrom and the corresponding ide-scsi modules, which resulted in the slowdown. I commented this line, did a devfs restart, and that's it, all login are as fast as root (as well as logout by the way). So, you can comment this line, but some modules won't be autoloaded when needed/requested by application. You will have to add lines for these specific modules ; in my case, I needed /dev/ppp for dialup. I had to add the line : LOOKUP ^ppp$ MODLOAD You can do the same and list only explicit device instead of .* to load only the needed modules and speed up the process (in my case, I don't use my external cdrom and floppy, so commenting the .* was no problem for me, but it could be for others, so handle with care). Hope this helps... (or at least explains things a little more). bye
Re: [Cooker] user login is very long, while root login is very fast
Combelles, Christophe (MED, ALTEN) wrote: Are you sure this is a first login No, you're right, I was already logged in in X. Because when you or another user is already logged, the login is as fast as root. Well, just to be sure I tried as a first login and it takes about 2 seconds. I remember I had this problem (long time to login) when I tried a test install of 8.2 configured to use ldap as the authentication database, then removed ldap but nsswitch.conf still was configured to look at ldap, and it had to time out before consulting local files. Bye -- Luca Olivetti Note.- This message reached you today, it may not tomorrow if you are using MAPS or other RBL. They arbitrarily IP addresses not related in any way to spam, disrupting Internet connectivity. See http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/05/21/1944247 and http://theory.whirlycott.com/~phil/antispam/rbl-bad/rbl-bad.html msg86462/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [Cooker] user login is very long, while root login is very fast
Nicolas Pomarede wrote: Well, I had the exact same problem after installing 9.0 on my laptop. This is a rather old one, with Celeron 300 Mhz and not really fast ide disk, so any unnecessary operations during the login is easily noticeable. After boot completed, I noticed login with root was instantanneous, while login with any other user took 5 seconds or so. As pointed, the problem comes from devfs default configuration. By default, devfs will MODLOAD any module which can't be lookep up. Is everything above properly spelled? I don't understand its meaning. See devfsd.conf : # Enable module autoloading. You may comment this out if you don't use # autoloading LOOKUP.* MODLOAD What is MODLOAD? What is autoloading? How do I know if I am using or need to be using either of these? In my case, this loaded ide, floppy, cdrom and the corresponding ide-scsi How did you find this out? Is there an inventory of this somewhere? I see three files in /etc/devfs/conf.d: dynamic.conf, mouse.conf, psaux.conf. I don't recognize any contents of dynamic.conf as necessary. Most is usb, which I don't use. modules, which resulted in the slowdown. I commented this line, did a devfs restart, and that's it, all login are as fast as root (as well as logout by the way). So, you can comment this line, but some modules won't be autoloaded when needed/requested by application. You will have to add lines for these specific modules ; in my case, I needed /dev/ppp for dialup. I had to add the line : LOOKUP ^ppp$ MODLOAD You can do the same and list only explicit device instead of .* to load only the needed modules and speed up the process (in my case, I don't use my external cdrom and floppy, so commenting the .* was no problem for me, but it could be for others, so handle with care). Hope this helps... (or at least explains things a little more). Helps yes, but need to understand the consequence of the recommended action. -- There's nothing so absurd that if you repeat it often enough, people will believe it.William James Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/
Re: [Cooker] user login is very long, while root login is very fast
Austin Acton wrote: On Tue, 2003-01-14 at 17:55, Christophe Combelles wrote: -- the login takes between 3 and 5 seconds. Hehe, there was some discussion about this a while ago. I forget where it was, but it was 'gentoo is SO much faster' people against 'Mandrake and gentoo are the same speed' people. The discussion (fight?) kinda ended with: well, it takes half a second to login to gentoo and five seconds on Mandrake... end of story. Did they compare how long it took a Gentoo user to figure out all the groups he/she had to be in to access devices??? This is pam_console, setting perms on devices, I guess you would rather make yourself member of usb,audio,cdwriter, etc etc to get the same functionality??? Buchan -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
Re: [Cooker] user login is very long, while root login is very fast
Buchan Milne a écrit: Austin Acton wrote: On Tue, 2003-01-14 at 17:55, Christophe Combelles wrote: -- the login takes between 3 and 5 seconds. Hehe, there was some discussion about this a while ago. I forget where it was, but it was 'gentoo is SO much faster' people against 'Mandrake and gentoo are the same speed' people. The discussion (fight?) kinda ended with: well, it takes half a second to login to gentoo and five seconds on Mandrake... end of story. Did they compare how long it took a Gentoo user to figure out all the groups he/she had to be in to access devices??? This is pam_console, setting perms on devices, I guess you would rather make yourself member of usb,audio,cdwriter, etc etc to get the same functionality??? But why is it necessary to change the perms of the devices ?? This should be only a matter of groups. For example /dev/mixer should always belong to root:audio with perms crw-rw, and a user should be in the group audio. So even ater login, the /dev entry has not been changed, but only the users of the group audio could access /dev/mixer. And when a user is created, it should automatically belong to a series of standard groups like audio, etc.
Re: [Cooker] user login is very long, while root login is very fast
Christophe Combelles wrote: But why is it necessary to change the perms of the devices ?? This should be only a matter of groups. It's not so simple, a group cannot tell if you are logging in at the console or remotely (read below) For example /dev/mixer should always belong to root:audio with perms crw-rw, and a user should be in the group audio. So even ater login, the /dev entry has not been changed, but only the users of the group audio could access /dev/mixer. And when a user is created, it should automatically belong to a series of standard groups like audio, etc. Remember, Linux is a multiuser and networked system. Only a user logging in at the console should access /dev/mixer (and /dev/dsp, and /dev/video, etc.), a user logging in remotely (normally) has no use for it. This pam module, while not ideal in every situation, is configured to give access to some devices only to users phisically logging in at the machine, and this should be ok for most situations. If you need fixed permissions (for example, to record from the tv card in a cron job or start a recording remotely) you can tweak /etc/security/console.perms Bye -- Luca Olivetti Note.- This message reached you today, it may not tomorrow if you are using MAPS or other RBL. They arbitrarily IP addresses not related in any way to spam, disrupting Internet connectivity. See http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/05/21/1944247 and http://theory.whirlycott.com/~phil/antispam/rbl-bad/rbl-bad.html msg86242/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [Cooker] user login is very long, while root login is very fast
Luca Olivetti wrote: Christophe Combelles wrote: But why is it necessary to change the perms of the devices ?? This should be only a matter of groups. It's not so simple, a group cannot tell if you are logging in at the console or remotely (read below) For example /dev/mixer should always belong to root:audio with perms crw-rw, and a user should be in the group audio. So even ater login, the /dev entry has not been changed, but only the users of the group audio could access /dev/mixer. And when a user is created, it should automatically belong to a series of standard groups like audio, etc. Remember, Linux is a multiuser and networked system. Only a user logging in at the console should access /dev/mixer (and /dev/dsp, and /dev/video, etc.), a user logging in remotely (normally) has no use for it. This pam module, while not ideal in every situation, is configured to give access to some devices only to users phisically logging in at the machine, and this should be ok for most situations. If you need fixed permissions (for example, to record from the tv card in a cron job or start a recording remotely) you can tweak /etc/security/console.perms The system I most often boot to Mandrake has no sound card, and takes more like a minute to complete a login if not root. There's no excuse for such behavior to have survived the 9.0 beta process, much less continue in 9.1. 7.1 has no such problem on the same machine. -- There's nothing so absurd that if you repeat it often enough, people will believe it.William James Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/
Re: [Cooker] user login is very long, while root login is very fast
On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Luca Olivetti wrote: For example /dev/mixer should always belong to root:audio with perms crw-rw, and a user should be in the group audio. So even ater login, the /dev entry has not been changed, but only the users of the group audio could access /dev/mixer. And when a user is created, it should automatically belong to a series of standard groups like audio, etc. Remember, Linux is a multiuser and networked system. And with linux NFS only allowing 15 groups, I don't want to waste any unnecessary (audio, cdwriter, video,usb) groups on stuff that is of no relevevance on the rest of the network (as opposed to adm, wheel, etc). Does NFSv4 in 2.5 support more than 15 NFS groups? I'm already bumping my head against this, I am in abuot 20 groups, and some of the last 5 are used on NFS ... so files owned by those groups are inacessible to me via NFS. Buchan -- |Registered Linux User #182071-| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
Re: [Cooker] user login is very long, while root login is very fast
On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Felix Miata wrote: The system I most often boot to Mandrake has no sound card, and takes more like a minute to complete a login if not root. There's no excuse for such behavior to have survived the 9.0 beta process, much less continue in 9.1. 7.1 has no such problem on the same machine. Would you rather a newbie has to figure out the 17 groups he needs to be a member of to use his hardware? Would you rather default to having each user on a network being a member of 5 additional groups (1/3 of the available NFS groups per user). (the other alternative is to no allow users on a network access to the hardware on their own machine, or leave it insecure). Really, even n my machine that doesn't handle 700MB ISOs, login takes no more than a few seconds. Of course, you can disable pam_console for console logins, and tell us how you like it ... Remember in 7.1 etc you needed to be a member of the audio group to even run xmms? You had to be in group cdwriter to write a CD, in group tty to use a serial port, and group usb to access you Visor or scanner. This is where Gentoo is atm Buchan -- |Registered Linux User #182071-| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
Re: [Cooker] user login is very long, while root login is very fast
Buchan Milne wrote: On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Felix Miata wrote: The system I most often boot to Mandrake has no sound card, and takes more like a minute to complete a login if not root. There's no excuse for such behavior to have survived the 9.0 beta process, much less continue in 9.1. 7.1 has no such problem on the same machine. Would you rather a newbie has to figure out the 17 groups he needs to be a member of to use his hardware? Would you rather default to having each user on a network being a member of 5 additional groups (1/3 of the available NFS groups per user). (the other alternative is to no allow users on a network access to the hardware on their own machine, or leave it insecure). Really, even n my machine that doesn't handle 700MB ISOs, login takes no more than a few seconds. Of course, you can disable pam_console for console logins, and tell us how you like it ... Remember in 7.1 etc you needed to be a member of the audio group to even run xmms? You had to be in group cdwriter to write a CD, in group tty to use a serial port, and group usb to access you Visor or scanner. This is where Gentoo is atm A user who has to wait 15-20 seconds to complete a non-root login that completes instantly as root is sure to think something is broken and/or login to root all the time instead. You'd rather the newbies always run as root? Fact is, something is broken if a service so basic as logging can't be completed in under four seconds on a machine with only the console capable of accepting login. That's longer than it took me in 1973. I just booted 9.0 on my W98 machine and it took 17 seconds flat on VC4, much too long. -- There's nothing so absurd that if you repeat it often enough, people will believe it.William James Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/
Re: [Cooker] user login is very long, while root login is very fast
Felix Miata wrote: 1973. I just booted 9.0 on my W98 machine and it took 17 seconds flat on VC4, much too long. A console login is almost instantaneus here (9.0). Maybe what's causing the slowdown is something else? (/etc/nsswitch.conf?) Bye -- Luca Olivetti Note.- This message reached you today, it may not tomorrow if you are using MAPS or other RBL. They arbitrarily IP addresses not related in any way to spam, disrupting Internet connectivity. See http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/05/21/1944247 and http://theory.whirlycott.com/~phil/antispam/rbl-bad/rbl-bad.html msg86258/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [Cooker] user login is very long, while root login is very fast
On Wed, 2003-01-15 at 17:33, Buchan Milne wrote: Would you rather a newbie has to figure out the 17 groups he needs to be a member of to use his hardware? Believe me, I was never proposing that gentoo has a better system. It was supposed to be sarcastic; like the only place gentoo can prove they are faster is at login. I think we can all afford the 3 seconds. Austin -- Austin Acton Hon.B.Sc. Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto MandrakeClub Volunteer (www.mandrakeclub.com) homepage: www.groundstate.ca
Re: [Cooker] user login is very long, while root login is very fast
Luca Olivetti wrote: Felix Miata wrote: I just booted 9.0 on my W98 machine and it took 17 seconds flat on VC4, much too long. A console login is almost instantaneus here (9.0). Maybe what's causing the slowdown is something else? (/etc/nsswitch.conf?) I wouldn't know how to begin tracking it down. I asked for help on the subject: Login Takes An Eternity on 9.0 on the expert list Tue, 10 Dec 2002 23:52:55 -0500. The thread produced no usable help. -- There's nothing so absurd that if you repeat it often enough, people will believe it.William James Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/
Re: [Cooker] user login is very long, while root login is very fast
Buchan Milne [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And with linux NFS only allowing 15 groups, I don't want to waste any unnecessary (audio, cdwriter, video,usb) groups on stuff that is of no relevevance on the rest of the network (as opposed to adm, wheel, etc). Does NFSv4 in 2.5 support more than 15 NFS groups? I'm already bumping my head against this, I am in abuot 20 groups, and some of the last 5 are used on NFS ... so files owned by those groups are inacessible to me via another problem is that you currently cannot be in more than 32 groups. i think linus accepted a patch in 2.5.5x to dynamically handle more than 32 groups per user, but that's a long term fix.
Re: [Cooker] user login is very long, while root login is very fast
At 07:16 PM 1/15/03 -0500, you wrote: I wouldn't know how to begin tracking it down. I asked for help on the subject: Login Takes An Eternity on 9.0 on the expert list Tue, 10 Dec 2002 23:52:55 -0500. The thread produced no usable help. I am not subscribed to this list, could you be kind enough to say what is the speed of the offending computer ? On my box login feels somewhat sluggish, I have not timed it, but it seems between one and 2 seconds; I have a 700 Mhz box, if your machine is a Pentium 60, this could explain many things. Not that I mean that in this case your problem would not be a valid one; it's just necessary to understand first why you see this particular problem. Gerard
Re: [Cooker] user login is very long, while root login is very fast
On Wed, 2003-01-15 at 23:24, Gerard Patel wrote: At 07:16 PM 1/15/03 -0500, you wrote: I wouldn't know how to begin tracking it down. I asked for help on the subject: Login Takes An Eternity on 9.0 on the expert list Tue, 10 Dec 2002 23:52:55 -0500. The thread produced no usable help. I am not subscribed to this list, could you be kind enough to say what is the speed of the offending computer ? On my box login feels somewhat sluggish, I have not timed it, but it seems between one and 2 seconds; I have a 700 Mhz box, if your machine is a Pentium 60, this could explain many things. Not that I mean that in this case your problem would not be a valid one; it's just necessary to understand first why you see this particular problem. Just checked with a PII 150MHz (~5 yo lappy) and it does not take more than 5 seconds, quite reasonable for the beast. -- Quel Qun [EMAIL PROTECTED] signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
[Cooker] user login is very long, while root login is very fast
This problem was also on the 9.0 : - log off ALL the users. - Go to a console (for ex Alt-Ctrl-F1) - login as root - login is very fast. OK - log off this root user. - log in as a standard user -- the login takes between 3 and 5 seconds. I have straced the login process, and made some very basic profiling on it. (wrote something in the file every second) And I have discovered that there is a lstat on EVERY file in /dev during the login. This does not occur when devfs is not mounted (in lilo.conf). Please see the strace in enclosure. login.strace.bz2 Description: Binary data
Re: [Cooker] user login is very long, while root login is very fast
On Tue, 2003-01-14 at 17:55, Christophe Combelles wrote: -- the login takes between 3 and 5 seconds. Hehe, there was some discussion about this a while ago. I forget where it was, but it was 'gentoo is SO much faster' people against 'Mandrake and gentoo are the same speed' people. The discussion (fight?) kinda ended with: well, it takes half a second to login to gentoo and five seconds on Mandrake... end of story. I knew there had to be some weird background process making the login oddly slow. Austin -- Austin Acton Hon.B.Sc. Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto MandrakeClub Volunteer (www.mandrakeclub.com) homepage: www.groundstate.ca
Re: [Cooker] user login is very long, while root login is very fast
Yes, ok , but Is there a way to keep devfs and to not lstat the whole /dev ? Austin Acton a écrit: On Tue, 2003-01-14 at 17:55, Christophe Combelles wrote: -- the login takes between 3 and 5 seconds. Hehe, there was some discussion about this a while ago. I forget where it was, but it was 'gentoo is SO much faster' people against 'Mandrake and gentoo are the same speed' people. The discussion (fight?) kinda ended with: well, it takes half a second to login to gentoo and five seconds on Mandrake... end of story. I knew there had to be some weird background process making the login oddly slow. Austin
