Re: [Cooker] Mandrake wesite fonts
On Wed, 2003-09-10 at 03:09, jokerman64 wrote: OK, so here i am after p-chem lab and i open my mail and get the new updated mandrake club website mail. So i go and check it out, kinda excited to see if it's worthy of me now so that i can join and I see that it's still the same crappy site. lemme explain: 1. The fonts suck! 2. The fonts are sh*te 3. The fonts on all the mandrake site suck @$$. Yes, that is my one and only complaint. You see i don't care so much how things work if i'm not going to use them a lot as much as I care about how they look. Agree 100%, assuming this means the site still has Helvetica set as its preferred font. We've spent years in the distro fixing the reliance on this ass-ugly piece of bitmap crap, so why does the website of the damn distro want to use it?! Since we now have such lovely fonts in Mandrake, the website should have the default font set as sans, so it actually looks half acceptable. Sites that default to Helvetica bug me so much I've actually wiped the font from my system (I tried setting up that thing you can do in fonts.conf that make it use Vera in place of Helvetica, but I could never make it work), so now the MDK page looks okay to me, but this is a hack I should NOT have to use. -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake wesite fonts
On Wed, 2003-09-10 at 11:12, Han Boetes wrote: jokerman64 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. The fonts suck! [ snip: more of the same ] gee Safe this as ~/.fonts.conf: Um. Why the heck should we have to hack our fonts.conf file to workaround your badly setup website? Why not just fix the website? Simply changing the preferred font order to something like sans, verdana, helvetica would work perfectly well. -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake wesite fonts
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Adam Williamson wrote:
On Wed, 2003-09-10 at 03:09, jokerman64 wrote:
OK, so here i am after p-chem lab and i open my mail and get the new
updated
mandrake club website mail. So i go and check it out, kinda excited
to see
if it's worthy of me now so that i can join and I see that it's
still the
same crappy site. lemme explain:
1. The fonts suck!
2. The fonts are sh*te
3. The fonts on all the mandrake site suck @$$.
Yes, that is my one and only complaint. You see i don't care so much how
things work if i'm not going to use them a lot as much as I care about
how
they look.
Agree 100%, assuming this means the site still has Helvetica set as its
preferred font. We've spent years in the distro fixing the reliance on
this ass-ugly piece of bitmap crap, so why does the website of the damn
distro want to use it?! Since we now have such lovely fonts in Mandrake,
the website should have the default font set as sans, so it actually
looks half acceptable. Sites that default to Helvetica bug me so much
I've actually wiped the font from my system (I tried setting up that
thing you can do in fonts.conf that make it use Vera in place of
Helvetica, but I could never make it work), so now the MDK page looks
okay to me, but this is a hack I should NOT have to use.
AFAIK, MandrakeClub now uses CSS for all style settings, and according
to Denis, doesn't set any fonts (though I will check later), however,
http://www.linux-mandrake.com is full of this junk:
font size=2 face=helvetica, arial, sans-serifbSeptember 9th, 2003
- Mandrake 9.2RC2/b - The second
release-candidate of Mandrake Linux 9.2 is available for download and
tests. Release informations and places to download are available a
href=92beta.php3here/a.
Luckily I override some fonts ...
Please, can someone ensure this is addressed. Helvetica is not a decent
replacement for Arial or sans-serif, and should be listed last, not first.
Ha! I just looked at the CSS on http://www.mandrakeclub.com, and see this:
BODY {
color: #00;
background: #ff;
padding: 5px;
margin: 0px;
font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;
font-size: 12px;
}
* {
font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;
font-size: 12px;
}
The same issue applies here, you should use instead:
font-family: arial, sans-serif, helvetica;
Regards,
Buchan
- --
|--Another happy Mandrake Club member--|
Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager
Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202
Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za
GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc
1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iD8DBQE/Xv5jrJK6UGDSBKcRAlSYAJ0Yqh6/rOEc7ghI8SjrtjVwgs5E8wCfbwyX
s3UdmXwsOzR5/Q5OpDkPFXs=
=Uzbw
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
*
Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our
e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy.
*
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake wesite fonts
Adam Williamson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2003-09-10 at 11:12, Han Boetes wrote: jokerman64 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. The fonts suck! [ snip: more of the same ] gee Safe this as ~/.fonts.conf: Um. Why the heck should we have to hack our fonts.conf file to workaround your badly setup website? Why not just fix the website? Simply changing the preferred font order to something like sans, verdana, helvetica would work perfectly well. I don't have root on that machine. I only have it on this machine. Besides, this fixes a whole lot of other sites as well. And I don't scold to people to get them to do what I want. I already politely asked about those fonts a long time ago and nobody reacted so solved it for myself. # Han -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanb/software http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanb/documents/quotingguide.html
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake wesite fonts
On Wed, 2003-09-10 at 11:42, Han Boetes wrote: Adam Williamson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2003-09-10 at 11:12, Han Boetes wrote: jokerman64 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. The fonts suck! [ snip: more of the same ] gee Safe this as ~/.fonts.conf: Um. Why the heck should we have to hack our fonts.conf file to workaround your badly setup website? Why not just fix the website? Simply changing the preferred font order to something like sans, verdana, helvetica would work perfectly well. I don't have root on that machine. I only have it on this machine. Besides, this fixes a whole lot of other sites as well. And I don't scold to people to get them to do what I want. I already politely asked about those fonts a long time ago and nobody reacted so solved it for myself. I didn't mean your as in you personally, Han, I meant you as in Mandrakesoft... -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake wesite fonts
Le mer 10/09/2003 à 10:35, Buchan Milne a écrit :
AFAIK, MandrakeClub now uses CSS for all style settings, and according
to Denis, doesn't set any fonts (though I will check later), however,
http://www.linux-mandrake.com is full of this junk:
font size=2 face=helvetica, arial, sans-serifbSeptember 9th, 2003
- Mandrake 9.2RC2/b - The second
release-candidate of Mandrake Linux 9.2 is available for download and
tests. Release informations and places to download are available a
href=92beta.php3here/a.
so they don't know how to use css, class, implicite class, etc ... ?
The problem is that many mdk site need to be redesigned.
The only one with a decent design is http://www.mandrakesoft.com others
are crap.
MandrakeClub :
- use others fonts
- remove the index in all language at the right side. The site should
detect the language of the browser and display the right page. If the
user want others languages, it will just click on a flag to see them.
If english version is more up to date that others languages version, yt
should be the only one to be displayed at the right side
- there should have at least 5px spacing between flags and text ( cf
left side with vertical align set to middle :
img
{
border: 0px none transparent;
vertical-align: middle;
margin : 5px;
}
- link should not be underlined and should have a special color with a
color change for hover event, for example :
a:active
{
color: #FF;
background-color: transparent;
text-align: left;
text-decoration: none ;
}
a:visited
{
text-decoration: none ;
text-align: left;
}
a:link
{
text-decoration: none ;
text-align: left;
}
a:hover
{
color: #ff9900 ;
background-color: transparent;
text-decoration: none ;
text-align: left;
}
with gecko engine you can have hover with all elements ( span div
include ). khtml support hover on most element. IE ... only links but
you will not have display problem. So they could remove the onmouseover
event for the menu at the top.
css site :
http://www.csszengarden.com/
http://www.csszengarden.com/tr/francais/
http://glish.com/css/
http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/learning
The same issue applies here, you should use instead:
font-family: arial, sans-serif, helvetica;
you should put Verdana before Arial as Arial sometimes is bolder than
other fonts.
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake wesite fonts
On Wed, 2003-09-10 at 14:45, FACORAT Fabrice wrote: The same issue applies here, you should use instead: font-family: arial, sans-serif, helvetica; you should put Verdana before Arial as Arial sometimes is bolder than other fonts. Agreed. Besides, Verdana was expressly designed as a display font, and Arial was expressly designed as a printed output font. Verdana looks way better on screen than Arial, I've no idea why so many Windows users seem to use Arial as a display font... -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake wesite fonts
FACORAT Fabrice [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: so they don't know how to use css, class, implicite class, etc ... ? The problem is that many mdk site need to be redesigned. the others websites (like mandrake-linux.com) are old and was designed for the only descent linux browser available at this time the so famous buggy, crap, ugly and closed-source called Netscape4 (which had problems to handle even CSS1 *SIGH*). -- http://www.chmouel.com/
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake wesite fonts
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Chmouel Boudjnah wrote: FACORAT Fabrice [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: so they don't know how to use css, class, implicite class, etc ... ? The problem is that many mdk site need to be redesigned. the others websites (like mandrake-linux.com) are old and was designed for the only descent linux browser available at this time the so famous buggy, crap, ugly and closed-source called Netscape4 (which had problems to handle even CSS1 *SIGH*). The question of course is, will the webmaster take patches? If so, where can we find cvs? Maybe community power can help in reworking the sites? ;-) Regards, Buchan - -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/XxexrJK6UGDSBKcRAq70AJsF6nwZvzWvJ/b0gbIo+lYU7bVRPACggtbC N7Luv7sGAKvhvb4lDQOpsgI= =9/k7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- * Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. *
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake wesite fonts
Adam Williamson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2003-09-10 at 11:42, Han Boetes wrote: Adam Williamson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2003-09-10 at 11:12, Han Boetes wrote: jokerman64 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. The fonts suck! [ snip: more of the same ] gee Safe this as ~/.fonts.conf: Um. Why the heck should we have to hack our fonts.conf file to workaround your badly setup website? Why not just fix the website? Simply changing the preferred font order to something like sans, verdana, helvetica would work perfectly well. I don't have root on that machine. I only have it on this machine. Besides, this fixes a whole lot of other sites as well. And I don't scold to people to get them to do what I want. I already politely asked about those fonts a long time ago and nobody reacted so solved it for myself. I didn't mean your as in you personally, Han, I meant you as in Mandrakesoft... I would really appreciate it if you would react to what I say instead of saying I misunderstood you because you said something else than what you said. # Han -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanb/software http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanb/documents/quotingguide.html
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake wesite fonts
On Wed, 2003-09-10 at 13:28, Han Boetes wrote: Adam Williamson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2003-09-10 at 11:42, Han Boetes wrote: Adam Williamson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2003-09-10 at 11:12, Han Boetes wrote: jokerman64 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. The fonts suck! [ snip: more of the same ] gee Safe this as ~/.fonts.conf: Um. Why the heck should we have to hack our fonts.conf file to workaround your badly setup website? Why not just fix the website? Simply changing the preferred font order to something like sans, verdana, helvetica would work perfectly well. I don't have root on that machine. I only have it on this machine. Besides, this fixes a whole lot of other sites as well. And I don't scold to people to get them to do what I want. I already politely asked about those fonts a long time ago and nobody reacted so solved it for myself. I didn't mean your as in you personally, Han, I meant you as in Mandrakesoft... I would really appreciate it if you would react to what I say instead of saying I misunderstood you because you said something else than what you said. I'm not saying you misunderstood me, I was posting a clarification because your reply made it obvious my original post wasn't clear enough. I know you're not the webmaster. I hope the other people who've posted agreeing with the original problem should be enough to convince whoever *is* the webmaster to fix this... -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake wesite fonts
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Adam Williamson wrote: I hope the other people who've posted agreeing with the original problem should be enough to convince whoever *is* the webmaster to fix this... Well, that's kind of impossible considering no-one else cc'ed the webmaster, and I doubt the webmaster reads cooker ... Regards, Buchan - -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/XxztrJK6UGDSBKcRAiYeAJ9MulHdtNjWy3Fw9Aimaqatjpd+CwCgk55K 6K8D54O5vKJlW1QDBNQmmw8= =xlr1 -END PGP SIGNATURE- * Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. *
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake wesite fonts
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 14:23:13 +0200, Buchan Milne wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Chmouel Boudjnah wrote: FACORAT Fabrice [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: so they don't know how to use css, class, implicite class, etc ... ? The problem is that many mdk site need to be redesigned. the others websites (like mandrake-linux.com) are old and was designed for the only descent linux browser available at this time the so famous buggy, crap, ugly and closed-source called Netscape4 (which had problems to handle even CSS1 *SIGH*). The question of course is, will the webmaster take patches? If so, where can we find cvs? Maybe community power can help in reworking the sites? You can try to contact Gaël who is in charge of web sites.. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Good luck :) -- Frederic Crozat MandrakeSoft
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake wesite fonts
On Wed, 2003-09-10 at 13:49, Adam Williamson wrote: On Wed, 2003-09-10 at 13:45, Buchan Milne wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Adam Williamson wrote: I hope the other people who've posted agreeing with the original problem should be enough to convince whoever *is* the webmaster to fix this... Well, that's kind of impossible considering no-one else cc'ed the webmaster, and I doubt the webmaster reads cooker ... Oops, good point :). So can someone please let us know who the webmaster is, so we can pass the thread on? Okay, thanks to Frederic, we know it's Mr. Duval who should be informed...so I've sent him a mail summarising the thread so far and quoting the more general CSS improvements that were suggested as well. -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake wesite fonts
On Wed, 2003-09-10 at 13:45, Buchan Milne wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Adam Williamson wrote: I hope the other people who've posted agreeing with the original problem should be enough to convince whoever *is* the webmaster to fix this... Well, that's kind of impossible considering no-one else cc'ed the webmaster, and I doubt the webmaster reads cooker ... Oops, good point :). So can someone please let us know who the webmaster is, so we can pass the thread on? -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake wesite fonts
Adam Williamson kirjoitti viestissn (lhetysaika Keskiviikko 10. Syyskuuta 2003 15:58): On Wed, 2003-09-10 at 13:49, Adam Williamson wrote: On Wed, 2003-09-10 at 13:45, Buchan Milne wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Adam Williamson wrote: I hope the other people who've posted agreeing with the original problem should be enough to convince whoever *is* the webmaster to fix this... Well, that's kind of impossible considering no-one else cc'ed the webmaster, and I doubt the webmaster reads cooker ... Oops, good point :). So can someone please let us know who the webmaster is, so we can pass the thread on? Okay, thanks to Frederic, we know it's Mr. Duval who should be informed...so I've sent him a mail summarising the thread so far and quoting the more general CSS improvements that were suggested as well. If you forward me the same mail you sent him, I'll post the same request on the WebTranslators list... so every translator will be aware of this... That should get the discussion going ;-) -- Regards Thomas
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake wesite fonts
On Wednesday 10 September 2003 06:13 am, Adam Williamson wrote: On Wed, 2003-09-10 at 03:09, jokerman64 wrote: OK, so here i am after p-chem lab and i open my mail and get the new updated mandrake club website mail. So i go and check it out, kinda excited to see if it's worthy of me now so that i can join and I see that it's still the same crappy site. lemme explain: 1. The fonts suck! 2. The fonts are sh*te 3. The fonts on all the mandrake site suck @$$. Yes, that is my one and only complaint. You see i don't care so much how things work if i'm not going to use them a lot as much as I care about how they look. Agree 100%, assuming this means the site still has Helvetica set as its preferred font. We've spent years in the distro fixing the reliance on this ass-ugly piece of bitmap crap, so why does the website of the damn distro want to use it?! Since we now have such lovely fonts in Mandrake, the website should have the default font set as sans, so it actually looks half acceptable. Sites that default to Helvetica bug me so much I've actually wiped the font from my system (I tried setting up that thing you can do in fonts.conf that make it use Vera in place of Helvetica, but I could never make it work), so now the MDK page looks okay to me, but this is a hack I should NOT have to use. Wiping Helvetica off my system. That's a brilliant idea. I shoulda thought of that. It's a hack, yes, but i really hate that font too. -- illogic out --- $ partimage -od -f1 -j9 save /dev/hda1 /mnt/stuff/mdk91.bak
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake wesite fonts
On Wednesday 10 September 2003 08:58 am, Adam Williamson wrote: On Wed, 2003-09-10 at 13:49, Adam Williamson wrote: On Wed, 2003-09-10 at 13:45, Buchan Milne wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Adam Williamson wrote: I hope the other people who've posted agreeing with the original problem should be enough to convince whoever *is* the webmaster to fix this... Well, that's kind of impossible considering no-one else cc'ed the webmaster, and I doubt the webmaster reads cooker ... Oops, good point :). So can someone please let us know who the webmaster is, so we can pass the thread on? Okay, thanks to Frederic, we know it's Mr. Duval who should be informed...so I've sent him a mail summarising the thread so far and quoting the more general CSS improvements that were suggested as well. You beat me to it by about 4 hours. :( That's what I get for going to classes. -- illogic out --- $ partimage -od -f1 -j9 save /dev/hda1 /mnt/stuff/mdk91.bak
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake wesite fonts
On Tuesday 09 September 2003 10:09 pm, jokerman64 wrote: OK, so here i am after p-chem lab and i open my mail and get the new updated mandrake club website mail. So i go and check it out, kinda excited to see if it's worthy of me now so that i can join and I see that it's still the same crappy site. lemme explain: 1. The fonts suck! 2. The fonts are sh*te 3. The fonts on all the mandrake site suck @$$. Yes, that is my one and only complaint. You see i don't care so much how things work if i'm not going to use them a lot as much as I care about how they look. I'm already singed up with mandrakeusers.org so I get free (and great) support from there so the only reasons for me to join the club would be for special offers which i'm not going to use or to support mandrake. The latter reason is good but i just never seem to get around to it. So I've come up with what I think to be a great solution. I'll pay YOU guys at mdk to let me change the few lines of css needed so that people can see truetype fonts when they come to the mdk pages. What do you say? Not only will I join the club (immediately after the changes are made) I'll join as a silver level member instead of standard (which is recommended for students of my financial stature) AND I'll buy a boxed copy of 9.2 (eventually) even though i am perfectly comfortable with the 9.1 release. Now usually when people complain about something some people are like well why don't *you* so it. Here I am offering to do it, hell I'm offering to PAY you to let me do it. Whadyah say? $160s not a lot from just one guy but maybe i can get more people to join. You never know Yeah, this is kindof a bribe but it's a win win situation for everybody, even if you don't wan't me to do it, pleease get it done, you could even make it coincide w/ the 9.2 release. Ok a lot of people seem to agree with the basic idea but are getting into arguments over which font is better than the other. The whole point of this message was to get *some* kind of change on the sites from the bassackwards aliased font not to argue over which font you like best. Whether it's changed to serif or sans-serif (yay), arial or verdana (yay) is pretty pointlesss. I'm sure they won't screw us over by using some crappier font. At this point any change will be a welcome one. Arguing about mandrake club language setup (while it isn't the best) is kinda offtopic here. Message for the day? Don't hijack my thread! Create your own so that people like me will come agree with you. Otherwise it'll just seem (on first glance) that there's a lot of discussion generated because of my thread (mdk fonts) and not yours (which fonts to choose, mdk site design). Having said that I'd like to thank everyone who replied (in agreement or not) for making this thread so long (and hence noticeable) :) I actually feel like something's going to get done about those sites. Also thanks go out to Frederic for providing webmaster info (Gael) and Facorat (css info) I could really use that info one my site at shameles plug http://www.I-Kubed.Org/sp. Ok this is getting long (again) so I'm going to end by saying, well requesting really, that everyone who is unhappy about the site send a little (short) message to Gael, kindly asking him to get on with changing the site(s) fonts. At least the main mdk site and the club site. -- illogic out --- $ partimage -od -f1 -j9 save /dev/hda1 /mnt/stuff/mdk91.bak For a good time see http://www.I-Kubed.Org
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake wesite fonts
Okay, thanks to Frederic, we know it's Mr. Duval who should be informed...so I've sent him a mail summarising the thread so far and quoting the more general CSS improvements that were suggested as well. And while he is fixing the site he needs to remember that cute doesn't cut it if you are old enough to buy your own drinks. (i think on the M$ site you have to click past about 7 pages to get to a download and js/java everywhere)
