Re: [Cooker] RC2, first impression (video card problems)
Le Mercredi 5 Mars 2003 01:26, jokerman64 a écrit : Something to fix or to add to the errata? Well, nothing positive unfortunately except use the Nvidia drivers. The XFree geforce 3 4 ones shouldn't really be shipped IMO. It's just going to look bad for Mandrake when loads of keen newbies try to install 9.1 and get what you (and me and lots of other people) had. And I suppose it's better for the newbies to look at a blank console and figure out what the hell they're going to do next. I'll doubt there skills extend to using lynx, etc., to go to nvidia site and find the drivers manually. Another thing are you sure it was the nv driver that got loaded because when I installed rc1 vesa (which I didn't use) was the default. Maybe this is the problem and the nv driver should be selected by default. If these useless drivers were not included, the user would have to use VESA. That is the whole point of not including them until they work. After that, it would be up to the user whether to install the nvidia binary drivers or not. However, considering the agony I experienced of staring at a monitor running at some horrible refresh rate, I would suggest that Mandrake try to assist users with nvidia cards (and users of the the newer ATI cards and any other cards) to download the binary drivers and install them correctly. They do not have to be included in the distribution, but at least the distribution could provide some form of help (even if it is just a little bit of information and a link or two to the relevant downloads/tutorials on the web). Go and look at the most voted rpm in the club. Users want help installing these drivers, so if they cannot be included in the distro due to licencing problems, at least users should be helped to download them and install them, instead of providing them with drivers that are not yet finished and consequently don't work properly.
Re: [Cooker] RC2, first impression (video card problems)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 N Smethurst wrote: Le Mercredi 5 Mars 2003 01:26, jokerman64 a écrit : If these useless drivers were not included, the user would have to use VESA. That is the whole point of not including them until they work. After that, it would be up to the user whether to install the nvidia binary drivers or not. But they work great for GeForce2/3 ... so it would be better to use nv on them and only vesa on GeForce4. However, considering the agony I experienced of staring at a monitor running at some horrible refresh rate, I would suggest that Mandrake try to assist users with nvidia cards (and users of the the newer ATI cards and any other cards) to download the binary drivers and install them correctly. They do not have to be included in the distribution, but at least the distribution could provide some form of help (even if it is just a little bit of information and a link or two to the relevant downloads/tutorials on the web). AFAIK, Mandrake Club members, if they setup the urpmi club source with drakfw should be able to just rerun XFdrake. If not, then at most all the will need to do is install NVIDIA_GLX and NVIDIA_kernel from the club, and then run XFdrake. Go and look at the most voted rpm in the club. Users want help installing these drivers, so if they cannot be included in the distro due to licencing problems, at least users should be helped to download them and install them, instead of providing them with drivers that are not yet finished and consequently don't work properly. Also remember that the NVidia drivers are included on all commercial sets, and work out-the-box. For those who really don't want to give Mandrakesoft any financial contribution until their display card works, I may update http://ranger.dnsalias.com/nvidia_me for 9.1. Then again I may not. Users paid NVidia good money for a card like a GeForce4Ti. NVidia should be the one ensuring their hardware is well supported for their users. If you have paid Mandrakesoft for the distro (either via club or buying a set), setup is trivial. If not, you need to consider whether you want to support proprietary softare (like the NVidia drivers) with your money (by buying NVidia cards), or whether you want to support free software (via Mandrakesoft). It's up to users, Mandrakesoft has done more than their part. Buchan - -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE+Zdd8rJK6UGDSBKcRAjf0AKCGx3/AH7BSrnsM01WaNjnHXosQXwCgpIOR yrMfazgZ5HMB3YzCsnpnPY0= =j8Co -END PGP SIGNATURE-
RE: Re: [Cooker] RC2, first impression (video card problems)
I think the rpms could be avalaible in plf, noarch or contribs. But if that is a problem then, as you say, a good howto to help user rebuilding the files. On the other hand of the financial point of view Mandrake could offer, as have done in 9.0, the drivers in the powerpack; so if you are a newbie and like have 3d activated, you should buy a powerpack. Is a complex deccision that the Mandrake manager must do. Anyway, the useless drivers for nvidia should be eliminated from the final release. Francisco Alcaraz Murcia - Mensaje Original - Remitente: N Smethurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fecha: Miércoles, Marzo 5, 2003 11:27 am Asunto: Re: [Cooker] RC2, first impression (video card problems) Le Mercredi 5 Mars 2003 01:26, jokerman64 a écrit : Something to fix or to add to the errata? Well, nothing positive unfortunately except use the Nvidia drivers. The XFree geforce 3 4 ones shouldn't really be shipped IMO. It's just going to look bad for Mandrake when loads of keen newbies try to install 9.1 and get what you (and me and lots of other people) had. And I suppose it's better for the newbies to look at a blank console and figure out what the hell they're going to do next. I'll doubt there skills extend to using lynx, etc., to go to nvidia site and find the drivers manually. Another thing are you sure it was the nv driver that got loaded because when I installed rc1 vesa (which I didn't use) was the default. Maybe this is the problem and the nv driver should be selected by default. If these useless drivers were not included, the user would have to use VESA. That is the whole point of not including them until they work. After that, it would be up to the user whether to install the nvidia binary drivers or not. However, considering the agony I experienced of staring at a monitor running at some horrible refresh rate, I would suggest that Mandrake try to assist users with nvidia cards (and users of the the newer ATI cards and any other cards) to download the binary drivers and install them correctly. They do not have to be included in the distribution, but at least the distribution could provide some form of help (even if it is just a little bit of information and a link or two to the relevant downloads/tutorials on the web). Go and look at the most voted rpm in the club. Users want help installing these drivers, so if they cannot be included in the distro due to licencing problems, at least users should be helped to download them and install them, instead of providing them with drivers that are not yet finished and consequently don't work properly.
RE: Re: [Cooker] RC2, first impression (video card problems)
Buchan, Actually we are thinking almost the same. BTW I didn't know that the XFree drivers run for some Geforce, in this case could be a good idea that installation of the 3 basic cds (open source cds) should include information for the user about what drivers to select and about the possibility to obtain the nvidia drivers being member of the club or buying a pack. BTW I have the NVIDIA rpms for rc2, if you like the NVIDIA-kernel I could send the rpm to you this afternoon (now 12:29 in Spain I am at work and the rpms are in my home computer. Still the tuxracer free crash X in some of the racers (Who says the penguins can't fly) but the whole commercial runs fine. Perhaps is a bug of the last release; I will see if the release is the same that was comming with 9.0 and if not I will install that of 9.0 to test it. Now I am going to give a class. See you later Francisco Alcaraz Murcia - Mensaje Original - Remitente: Buchan Milne [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fecha: Miércoles, Marzo 5, 2003 11:54 am Asunto: Re: [Cooker] RC2, first impression (video card problems) -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 N Smethurst wrote: Le Mercredi 5 Mars 2003 01:26, jokerman64 a écrit : If these useless drivers were not included, the user would have to use VESA. That is the whole point of not including them until they work. After that, it would be up to the user whether to install the nvidia binary drivers or not. But they work great for GeForce2/3 ... so it would be better to use nv on them and only vesa on GeForce4. However, considering the agony I experienced of staring at a monitor running at some horrible refresh rate, I would suggest that Mandrake try to assist users with nvidia cards (and users of the the newer ATI cards and anyother cards) to download the binary drivers and install them correctly. They do not have to be included in the distribution, but at least the distribution could provide some form of help (even if it is just a little bit of information and a link or two to the relevant downloads/tutorials on the web). AFAIK, Mandrake Club members, if they setup the urpmi club source with drakfw should be able to just rerun XFdrake. If not, then at most all the will need to do is install NVIDIA_GLX and NVIDIA_kernel from the club, and then run XFdrake. Go and look at the most voted rpm in the club. Users want help installing these drivers, so if they cannot be included in the distro due to licencing problems, at least users should be helped to download them and install them, instead of providing them with drivers that are not yet finished and consequently don't work properly. Also remember that the NVidia drivers are included on all commercial sets, and work out-the-box. For those who really don't want to give Mandrakesoft any financial contribution until their display card works, I may update http://ranger.dnsalias.com/nvidia_me for 9.1. Then again I may not. Users paid NVidia good money for a card like a GeForce4Ti. NVidia shouldbe the one ensuring their hardware is well supported for their users. If you have paid Mandrakesoft for the distro (either via club or buyinga set), setup is trivial. If not, you need to consider whether you want to support proprietary softare (like the NVidia drivers) with your money(by buying NVidia cards), or whether you want to support free software(via Mandrakesoft). It's up to users, Mandrakesoft has done more than their part. Buchan - -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE+Zdd8rJK6UGDSBKcRAjf0AKCGxyrMfazgZ5HMB3YzCsnpnPY0= =j8Co -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Cooker] RC2, first impression (video card problems)
I guess I should have worded that more clearly. I should have said that the options for geforce 4 (and perhaps geforce 3, although the sucess rate seems to be a little higher with geforce 3 cards) should only include the vesa driver, and perhaps a note discussing installing the nvidia drivers too. However, I guess this would be politically incorrect so it will never happen, despite the fact that the users want drivers that work.
Re: [Cooker] RC2, first impression (video card problems)
On Wednesday 05 March 2003 11:27, N Smethurst wrote: Le Mercredi 5 Mars 2003 01:26, jokerman64 a écrit : Something to fix or to add to the errata? And I suppose it's better for the newbies to look at a blank console and figure out what the hell they're going to do next. I'll doubt there skills extend to using lynx, etc., to go to nvidia site and find the drivers manually. Another thing are you sure it was the nv driver that got loaded because when I installed rc1 vesa (which I didn't use) was the default. Maybe this is the problem and the nv driver should be selected by default. If these useless drivers were not included, the user would have to use VESA. That is the whole point of not including them until they work. After that, it would be up to the user whether to install the nvidia binary drivers or not. moment please. Does this problem also exist on geforce2 ? If not it wouldn't be a good idea to exclude this driver. -- Regards Steffen counter.li.org : #296567. machine: 181800 vdr-box : 87 Please dont CC me, since if I have replied I'll watch the tread. Both mails will be filtered to the ML-folder. Thanks
Re: [Cooker] RC2, first impression (video card problems)
If these useless drivers were not included, the user would have to use VESA. That is the whole point of not including them until they work. After that, it would be up to the user whether to install the nvidia binary drivers or not. moment please. Does this problem also exist on geforce2 ? If not it wouldn't be a good idea to exclude this driver. I have a Geforce2 and I don't have the drivers here either. Wish I did, can't wait to get back to UT. Regards Trevor Rhodes === Powered by Linux- Mandrake 9.1 Registered Linux user # 290542 at http://counter.li.org Registered Machine #'s 186951, Source : my 100 % Microsoft-free personal computer. === 00:03:10 up 4 days, 7:02, 3 users, load average: 1.10, 1.03, 1.01 -- QOTD: Don't let your mind wander -- it's too little to be let out alone.
Re: [Cooker] RC2, first impression (video card problems)
N Smethurst wrote: too. However, I guess this would be politically incorrect so it will never happen, despite the fact that the users want drivers that work. So you should look elsewhere but nvidia (In fact I'm so pissed off at the constant crashes with nvidia binary driver that I'll stay far away from nvidia products, pity that it seems that ATI is following the same trend). BTW: anyone has a suggestion for a good (and possibly cheap) graphic card, that run out of the box with open source (ie. peer reviewed) drivers and has enough horsepower to play tuxracer? Bye -- Luca Olivetti Note.- This message reached you today, it may not tomorrow if you are using MAPS or other RBL. They arbitrarily IP addresses not related in any way to spam, disrupting Internet connectivity. See http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/05/21/1944247 and http://theory.whirlycott.com/~phil/antispam/rbl-bad/rbl-bad.html pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [Cooker] RC2, first impression (video card problems)
On Wed, 2003-03-05 at 06:30, Luca Olivetti wrote: N Smethurst wrote: too. However, I guess this would be politically incorrect so it will never happen, despite the fact that the users want drivers that work. So you should look elsewhere but nvidia (In fact I'm so pissed off at the constant crashes with nvidia binary driver that I'll stay far away from nvidia products, pity that it seems that ATI is following the same trend). BTW: anyone has a suggestion for a good (and possibly cheap) graphic card, that run out of the box with open source (ie. peer reviewed) drivers and has enough horsepower to play tuxracer? The Voodoo3 may be old, but it has great Linux support (well, as good as any 3d card, which is really to say crappy, but at least the support is in XF86 the kernel instead of a binary mystery package) still has competitive frame rates, and is available for about $20 off of ebay. Voodoo3s play all GL and SDL games very nicely, Quake and all its variants are fine, Descent3 is great. However, some game authors will write their games specifically for a certain video card. They might say that it's to utilize many super-nifty whiz-bang features of the card that aren't exposed through OpenGL, I might say it's to repay investments and prototype boards from the video card manufacturer, but the end result is that 3dfx doesn't apply in that game of kickback any more. So, if you want to run Unreal Tournament on Linux, you must purchase an NVidia card and use whatever drivers it requires. -- Jack Coates Monkeynoodle: A Scientific Venture...
Re: [Cooker] RC2, first impression (video card problems)
On Wednesday 05 March 2003 11:17 am, Jack Coates wrote: On Wed, 2003-03-05 at 06:30, Luca Olivetti wrote: N Smethurst wrote: too. However, I guess this would be politically incorrect so it will never happen, despite the fact that the users want drivers that work. So you should look elsewhere but nvidia (In fact I'm so pissed off at the constant crashes with nvidia binary driver that I'll stay far away from nvidia products, pity that it seems that ATI is following the same trend). BTW: anyone has a suggestion for a good (and possibly cheap) graphic card, that run out of the box with open source (ie. peer reviewed) drivers and has enough horsepower to play tuxracer? The Voodoo3 may be old, but it has great Linux support (well, as good as any 3d card, which is really to say crappy, but at least the support is in XF86 the kernel instead of a binary mystery package) still has competitive frame rates, and is available for about $20 off of ebay. Voodoo3s play all GL and SDL games very nicely, Quake and all its variants are fine, Descent3 is great. However, some game authors will write their games specifically for a certain video card. They might say that it's to utilize many super-nifty whiz-bang features of the card that aren't exposed through OpenGL, I might say it's to repay investments and prototype boards from the video card manufacturer, but the end result is that 3dfx doesn't apply in that game of kickback any more. So, if you want to run Unreal Tournament on Linux, you must purchase an NVidia card and use whatever drivers it requires. It can't play UT 2003 -- The man who runs may fight again. -- Menander
Re: [Cooker] RC2, first impression (video card problems)
On Wednesday 05 March 2003 9:30 am, Luca Olivetti wrote: N Smethurst wrote: too. However, I guess this would be politically incorrect so it will never happen, despite the fact that the users want drivers that work. So you should look elsewhere but nvidia (In fact I'm so pissed off at the constant crashes with nvidia binary driver that I'll stay far away from nvidia products, pity that it seems that ATI is following the same trend). If it's always crashing for you you possibly did something wrong when installing. BTW: anyone has a suggestion for a good (and possibly cheap) graphic card, that run out of the box with open source (ie. peer reviewed) drivers and has enough horsepower to play tuxracer? Bye -- His mind is like a steel trap: full of mice. -- Foghorn Leghorn
Re: [Cooker] RC2, first impression (video card problems)
On Wed, 2003-03-05 at 09:24, jokerman64 wrote: ... Voodoo3s play all GL and SDL games very nicely, Quake and all its variants are fine, Descent3 is great. However, some game authors will write their games specifically for a certain video card. They might say that it's to utilize many super-nifty whiz-bang features of the card that aren't exposed through OpenGL, I might say it's to repay investments and prototype boards from the video card manufacturer, but the end result is that 3dfx doesn't apply in that game of kickback any more. So, if you want to run Unreal Tournament on Linux, you must purchase an NVidia card and use whatever drivers it requires. It can't play UT 2003 That's what I said, yes. So, if you want to run Unreal Tournament on Linux, you must purchase an NVidia card and use whatever drivers it requires. Clear? By the way, if you want to play Age of Empires, you'll need to buy a copy of Windows too. Games publishers set hardware and software requirements. -- Jack Coates Monkeynoodle: A Scientific Venture...
Re: [Cooker] RC2, first impression (video card problems)
jokerman64 wrote: If it's always crashing for you you possibly did something wrong when installing. in this case it would be nvidia fault too (I always use the srpms). And, no, it isn't always crashing, it just crashes from time to time (but it's enough to piss me off, since this machine is also my mail server). Bye -- Luca Olivetti Note.- This message reached you today, it may not tomorrow if you are using MAPS or other RBL. They arbitrarily IP addresses not related in any way to spam, disrupting Internet connectivity. See http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/05/21/1944247 and http://theory.whirlycott.com/~phil/antispam/rbl-bad/rbl-bad.html pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
