Re: [Cooker] SGI's XFS pre-release
You're kidding, right? You want me to take a highly stable (except for NFS) filesystem like ReiserFS and chunk it for Linux XFS? No enterprise is going to be happier with XFS vs. Reiser for now. As an enterprise user, I can tell you that I'm waiting for VeritasFS. I'd like a journaling (ReiserFS is waaay further along than XFS) filesystem for my / and /usr filesystems. However, for my real data, give me Veritas or a raw partition for Oracle. - Original Message - From: "Eugenio Diaz" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 4:00 AM Subject: Re: [Cooker] SGI's XFS pre-release --- Leon Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chmouel Boudjnah wrote: Eugenio Diaz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: SGI's XFS is in pre-release: Any plans to include it in cooker. not yet, we already have reiserfs for a journaling file system. XFS does other things too. And choice is aways good, unless you're packaging stuff. (-: I forgot to mention that Mandrake bringing XFS up before RedHat would win them big points on the enterprise market, and those are the really paying guys. I know that if in the near future I had to set-up a server, and I had to choose between RH with XFS and MDK with reiserfs, it will be a no brainer to RH even if MDK is better ... just my two cents.
Re: [Cooker] SGI's XFS pre-release
--- Guillaume Cottenceau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Eugenio Diaz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] It's rather sad to see that SGI has written a patch to Anaconda to support XFS, and they don't care about our installer :-(.. No. I think what it's rather sad is your attitude, and that Mandrake have not my attitude?? Ok, let's move away from maillist rethoric ... my point is: 1. SGI has released an excellent technology to the OS world, that is a requirement for enterprise systems in todays Unix world. 2. As of today XFS runs on RH, but It does not run on Mandrake. 3. I love Mandrake. 4. If I were to use XFS, I can't use Mandrake. As opposed to ext3 or reiser, XFS is a port of proveen technology, specially in an area where Linux is most lacking on the enterprise. Thus, I think XFS should be given priority over reiser and ext3. = Eugenio Diaz, BSEE/BSCE Linux Engineer [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
Re: [Cooker] SGI's XFS pre-release
--- civileme [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... If you care to submit a story to mandrakeforum about this, I will make sure it is published. I think you are possibly overestimating our available time to pursue opportunities, but mandrakeforum is where you can make your case for one choice over many others. Sounds good; I will. Still, XFS needs to be described by someone competent to do so (like you) in terms of _benefits_ rather than features on a forum that reaches those who control the resources available. For the developers here, they are trying to remember that the objective is to drain the swamp while up to their eyeballs in alligators. I know there is a lot of work, but this is cooker! Aren't you supposed to work until you bleed or something? I hear something about cooker being a "bleeding edge" or something ... ;-) = Eugenio Diaz, BSEE/BSCE Linux Engineer [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
Re: [Cooker] SGI's XFS pre-release
"Brian J. Murrell" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] Why? Because nobody in our business development department could be convinced that Mandrake has staying power due to their weakness in the enterprise market. What would you need to change the case? Having some professional services ready to deal with your bosses? -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://us.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] SGI's XFS pre-release: fixing bugs
Chmouel Boudjnah wrote: fixing bugs actually is much more important that bringing features. Can you say that again? It's s refreshing to read... (-: -- Hiroshima '45 Chernobyl '86 Windows '95
Re: [Cooker] SGI's XFS pre-release
--- Guillaume Cottenceau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Eugenio Diaz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] Not only that, but XFS is a proven (in my opinion the best) enterprise class file system. It brings performance, scalability, security, QoS features, uptime, and more to Linux. I don't think reiserfs and XFS can be put in the same category. Just to start, XFS is a port of a proven product, while reiserfs is a *relatively* new and unproven product. It's rather sad to see that SGI has written a patch to Anaconda to support XFS, and they don't care about our installer :-(.. No. I think what it's rather sad is your attitude, and that Mandrake have not taken the initiative to establish a Developer or B2B relationship with SGI as RedHat has intelligently done. SGI is a hardware/services vendor. And BTW, they are one of the few vendors that actually "get-it" when it comes to Linux and OpenSource. I was at one of their "Linux University" events, and you won't believe how well they *really* understand the OpenSource community, and the way it works. Believe me, they are not biased. Also remember SGI is the leader in high-performance computing. = Eugenio Diaz, BSEE/BSCE Linux Engineer [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/
Re: [Cooker] SGI's XFS pre-release
--- "Brian J. Murrell" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Feb 06, 2001 at 06:04:40PM +0100, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: Eugenio Diaz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It's rather sad to see that SGI has written a patch to Anaconda to support XFS, and they don't care about our installer :-(.. Want to know why? Because Mandrake is not taken seriously in the enterprise market space. I have talked about this here in the past but nobody seems to be interested in dealing with this issue. That being as it is, I use Mandrake at home but lost the battle at work and we use RedHat. Why? Because nobody in our business development department could be convinced that Mandrake has staying power due to their weakness in the enterprise market. Exactly! The same thing happened to me on my last two jobs; and lets see those were about 15 servers running RH instead of Mandrake. And don't get me wrong, I *am* a Mandrake nut, but the reality is that Mandrake is not perceived as an enterprise distro, but a home user oriented one; even by experienced unix admins. Didn't you guys used to have the SGI tuned apache that RH didn't have? So what happened to that relationship? = Eugenio Diaz, BSEE/BSCE Linux Engineer [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/
Re: [Cooker] SGI's XFS pre-release
--- Guillaume Cottenceau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: "Brian J. Murrell" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] Why? Because nobody in our business development department could be convinced that Mandrake has staying power due to their weakness in the enterprise market. What would you need to change the case? Having some professional services ready to deal with your bosses? What is your point? = Eugenio Diaz, BSEE/BSCE Linux Engineer [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/
Re: [Cooker] SGI's XFS pre-release
--- "J . A . Magallon" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 02.06 Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: Eugenio Diaz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] Not only that, but XFS is a proven (in my opinion the best) enterprise class file system. It brings performance, scalability, security, QoS features, uptime, and more to Linux. I don't think reiserfs and XFS can be put in the same category. Just to start, XFS is a port of a proven product, while reiserfs is a *relatively* new and unproven product. It's rather sad to see that SGI has written a patch to Anaconda to support XFS, and they don't care about our installer :-(.. They distribute RedHat for their intel machines, don't be surprised not to care about anything more (althoug I have heard something about TurbuLinux...) They decided not to provide a SGI distro, and instead go with an existent distro, and provide any SGI specific enhancements in a separate software package called SGI Pro Pack which works with RH, SUSE, TurboLinux, and Debian (why not Mandrake also? Ask MandrakeSoft). Check: http://www.sgi.com/software/linux/propack/tech_info.html http://www.sgi.com/software/linux/propack/faq.html Yes, they ship with RH, NT or No OS, but they will support any distro that complies with their basic requirements. They have worked with SUSE on high-availability: http://www.sgi.com/newsroom/press_releases/2000/february/suse.html http://www.sgi.com/newsroom/press_releases/2000/august/suse.html they even partnered with a competing hardware vendor, VA/Linux to help the Debian cause: http://www.sgi.com/newsroom/press_releases/1999/oct/sgi_oreilly.html so don't tell me they don't play nice with others (as long as those others are *willing*). = Eugenio Diaz, BSEE/BSCE Linux Engineer [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/
Re: [Cooker] SGI's XFS pre-release
Eugenio Diaz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] It's rather sad to see that SGI has written a patch to Anaconda to support XFS, and they don't care about our installer :-(.. No. I think what it's rather sad is your attitude, and that Mandrake have not my attitude?? taken the initiative to establish a Developer or B2B relationship with SGI as RedHat has intelligently done. SGI is a hardware/services vendor. And BTW, they SGI has *patched* the Anaconda by their side and reported that on their ML. that's nothing to do with cooperative effort to port Anaconda to XFS. are one of the few vendors that actually "get-it" when it comes to Linux and OpenSource. I was at one of their "Linux University" events, and you won't Right. Few years ago they switched from IRIX to NT, that was a nice attitude. Now they realized that they made a big mistake, not a big deal. believe how well they *really* understand the OpenSource community, and the way it works. Believe me, they are not biased. Also remember SGI is the leader in high-performance computing. I don't say they are biased. I say that they prefer Redhat. And they probably do it because redhat is bigger in business than us, and I don't blame them for doing that! My feeling is just sadness to see that SGI is doing redhat's job for xfs in redhat installer. -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://us.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] SGI's XFS pre-release
Eugenio Diaz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: --- Guillaume Cottenceau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: "Brian J. Murrell" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] Why? Because nobody in our business development department could be convinced that Mandrake has staying power due to their weakness in the enterprise market. What would you need to change the case? Having some professional services ready to deal with your bosses? What is your point? I show no point I'm asking a question!! -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://us.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] SGI's XFS pre-release
On 02.07 Eugenio Diaz wrote: so don't tell me they don't play nice with others (as long as those others are *willing*). I do not say they do not play nice. I just say they will only worry about things working in RedHat even if nobody in RH would ask them 'cause they ship RedHat. If someone in Mandrake begins to work in making sure that Mdk installs ok in SGI Intel boxes, I have no doubt they will give any help wanted, but you can wait forever for they go to mdk to say 'Hey, guys, here's the patch you need to boot in our boxes'. -- J.A. Magallon $ cd pub mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] $ more beer Linux werewolf 2.4.1-ac4 #1 SMP Tue Feb 6 22:06:38 CET 2001 i686
Re: [Cooker] SGI's XFS pre-release
On Wednesday 07 February 2001 13:37, you wrote: --- "J . A . Magallon" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 02.06 Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: Eugenio Diaz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] Not only that, but XFS is a proven (in my opinion the best) enterprise class file system. It brings performance, scalability, security, QoS features, uptime, and more to Linux. I don't think reiserfs and XFS can be put in the same category. Just to start, XFS is a port of a proven product, while reiserfs is a *relatively* new and unproven product. It's rather sad to see that SGI has written a patch to Anaconda to support XFS, and they don't care about our installer :-(.. They distribute RedHat for their intel machines, don't be surprised not to care about anything more (althoug I have heard something about TurbuLinux...) They decided not to provide a SGI distro, and instead go with an existent distro, and provide any SGI specific enhancements in a separate software package called SGI Pro Pack which works with RH, SUSE, TurboLinux, and Debian (why not Mandrake also? Ask MandrakeSoft). Check: http://www.sgi.com/software/linux/propack/tech_info.html http://www.sgi.com/software/linux/propack/faq.html Yes, they ship with RH, NT or No OS, but they will support any distro that complies with their basic requirements. They have worked with SUSE on high-availability: http://www.sgi.com/newsroom/press_releases/2000/february/suse.html http://www.sgi.com/newsroom/press_releases/2000/august/suse.html they even partnered with a competing hardware vendor, VA/Linux to help the Debian cause: http://www.sgi.com/newsroom/press_releases/1999/oct/sgi_oreilly.html so don't tell me they don't play nice with others (as long as those others are *willing*). If you care to submit a story to mandrakeforum about this, I will make sure it is published. I think you are possibly overestimating our available time to pursue opportunities, but mandrakeforum is where you can make your case for one choice over many others. FYI, Mandrake 7.2 installed but would not boot on those SGI servers. It had to do with a conflict of bigmem and reiserfs for the kernel. One company did install Mandrake on SGI servers after cutting memory back to 1Gb, then recompiling the kernel and reinstalling the extra memory. It worked. Still, XFS needs to be described by someone competent to do so (like you) in terms of _benefits_ rather than features on a forum that reaches those who control the resources available. For the developers here, they are trying to remember that the objective is to drain the swamp while up to their eyeballs in alligators. Civileme
Re: [Cooker] SGI's XFS pre-release
--- Leon Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chmouel Boudjnah wrote: Eugenio Diaz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: SGI's XFS is in pre-release: Any plans to include it in cooker. not yet, we already have reiserfs for a journaling file system. XFS does other things too. And choice is aways good, unless you're packaging stuff. (-: Not only that, but XFS is a proven (in my opinion the best) enterprise class file system. It brings performance, scalability, security, QoS features, uptime, and more to Linux. I don't think reiserfs and XFS can be put in the same category. Just to start, XFS is a port of a proven product, while reiserfs is a *relatively* new and unproven product. I have work a lot with XFS on big SGI systems, and I can testify for its greatness. Anyone out there with the same feelings? = Eugenio Diaz, BSEE/BSCE Linux Engineer [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/
Re: [Cooker] SGI's XFS pre-release
--- Leon Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chmouel Boudjnah wrote: Eugenio Diaz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: SGI's XFS is in pre-release: Any plans to include it in cooker. not yet, we already have reiserfs for a journaling file system. XFS does other things too. And choice is aways good, unless you're packaging stuff. (-: I forgot to mention that Mandrake bringing XFS up before RedHat would win them big points on the enterprise market, and those are the really paying guys. I know that if in the near future I had to set-up a server, and I had to choose between RH with XFS and MDK with reiserfs, it will be a no brainer to RH even if MDK is better ... just my two cents. = Eugenio Diaz, BSEE/BSCE Linux Engineer [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/
Re: [Cooker] SGI's XFS pre-release
Eugenio Diaz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I forgot to mention that Mandrake bringing XFS up before RedHat would win them big points on the enterprise market, and those are the really paying guys. sure definitively but well we are not 100 engineer in the kernel team and we can't do everything, fixing bugs actually is much more important that bringing features. -- MandrakeSoft Inc http://www.chmouel.org --Chmouel
Re: [Cooker] SGI's XFS pre-release
snip XFS does other things too. And choice is aways good, unless you're packaging stuff. (-: Not only that, but XFS is a proven (in my opinion the best) enterprise class file system. It brings performance, scalability, security, QoS features, uptime, and more to Linux. I don't think reiserfs and XFS can be put in the same category. Just to start, XFS is a port of a proven product, while reiserfs is a *relatively* new and unproven product. I have work a lot with XFS on big SGI systems, and I can testify for its greatness. Anyone out there with the same feelings? I'm going to have to agree with Eugenio on this... Not sure how hard it would be to implement this file system into your current installer and kernel set up, but it would be GREAT if this was an option. Perhaps some of the Mandrake developers could try it out and compare XFS with Reiser and see which one they prefer before just assuming that Reiser is the way to go. Not to mention a little edge on RH is always nice for those of us that like to brag about how great our Mandrake systems run =) Just my 2 cents on this topic... -Tim
Re: [Cooker] SGI's XFS pre-release
Eugenio Diaz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] Not only that, but XFS is a proven (in my opinion the best) enterprise class file system. It brings performance, scalability, security, QoS features, uptime, and more to Linux. I don't think reiserfs and XFS can be put in the same category. Just to start, XFS is a port of a proven product, while reiserfs is a *relatively* new and unproven product. It's rather sad to see that SGI has written a patch to Anaconda to support XFS, and they don't care about our installer :-(.. -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://us.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] SGI's XFS pre-release
On Tue, Feb 06, 2001 at 06:04:40PM +0100, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: Eugenio Diaz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It's rather sad to see that SGI has written a patch to Anaconda to support XFS, and they don't care about our installer :-(.. Want to know why? Because Mandrake is not taken seriously in the enterprise market space. I have talked about this here in the past but nobody seems to be interested in dealing with this issue. That being as it is, I use Mandrake at home but lost the battle at work and we use RedHat. Why? Because nobody in our business development department could be convinced that Mandrake has staying power due to their weakness in the enterprise market. b. -- Brian J. Murrell
Re: [Cooker] SGI's XFS pre-release
On 02.06 Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: Eugenio Diaz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] Not only that, but XFS is a proven (in my opinion the best) enterprise class file system. It brings performance, scalability, security, QoS features, uptime, and more to Linux. I don't think reiserfs and XFS can be put in the same category. Just to start, XFS is a port of a proven product, while reiserfs is a *relatively* new and unproven product. It's rather sad to see that SGI has written a patch to Anaconda to support XFS, and they don't care about our installer :-(.. They distribute RedHat for their intel machines, don't be surprised not to care about anything more (althoug I have heard something about TurbuLinux...) -- J.A. Magallon $ cd pub mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] $ more beer Linux werewolf 2.4.1-ac4 #1 SMP Tue Feb 6 22:06:38 CET 2001 i686
Re: [Cooker] SGI's XFS pre-release
Eugenio Diaz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: SGI's XFS is in pre-release: http://oss.sgi.com/projects/xfs/prerelease.html Any plans to include it in cooker. not yet, we already have reiserfs for a journaling file system. -- MandrakeSoft Inc http://www.chmouel.org --Chmouel
Re: [Cooker] SGI's XFS pre-release
Chmouel Boudjnah wrote: Eugenio Diaz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: SGI's XFS is in pre-release: Any plans to include it in cooker. not yet, we already have reiserfs for a journaling file system. XFS does other things too. And choice is aways good, unless you're packaging stuff. (-:
