Re: [Crm-sig] Issue 369, Phase

[Martin Doerr]

Dear Robert,

On 2/23/2019 1:54 AM, Robert Sanderson wrote:


Dear all,

To make certain that I understand the distinctions being drawn by 
applying Phase and State to the use cases I sent during the SIG 
meeting in November, they fall into the categories in my email of 
social state and physical phase (a good mnemonic for which is which!):


* Ownership – initiated and terminated by an Acquisition, expresses 
the temporal validity of has_current_owner


(and similarly custody of the object)

This is a binary temporal relationship between an actor (the owner) 
and a thing (the object), and thus a Social State.



Yes!


* Identification / Naming --  temporal validity of a 
P1_is_identified_by between something and an Identifier


This is a ternary temporal relationship between an actor (the namer), 
a thing (the named object), and an appellation (the name).


Similarly valuation, but to a Monetary Amount instead of an 
Appellation.  This is very similar to AttributeAssignment, but with 
temporal qualities.


We use an "Name Use Activity" in the FRBR model. To be discussed how a 
formal assignment of a name relates to actually using it.


* Usage -- a thing was used in a particular way (e.g. a building was a 
church, then a restaurant)


That's activity based. To be discussed. This pertains to subtle 
distinctions between intentions and factual reality, and to which degree 
there is a unity in activities making use of something. It also touches 
questions of modelling collective behaviour.


An actor (the Group that uses it), a thing (the building), and a Type 
(the sort of usage)


*  Profession, Gender, Nationality (and other classifications) of a Person

These don’t fall into the current definition as there’s no Thing 
involved other than the Person?  Or is the person the “thing”, and the 
society is the Actor?


Profession and nationality as a formal, contractual thing would be a 
social binding.


Then my two physical cases, which are Phases:

* Change of dimensions – The Night Watch was cut down in 1715. This is 
observable and thus continues to be valid with the addition to the 
scope note.



Yes.


* Existence – Picasso’s Le Peintre exists from its production in 1963 
until 1998, when its Destruction was caused by the crash of Swissair 
Flight 111. In between there is a Phase when the painting observably 
existed..


Well, to be discussed. The overall existence of something to regard as a 
phase is like regarding my computer as a part of itself. For me, a thing 
simply is, and begin and end of existence are parameters. If we model it 
as an E92, it has a simple temporal projection.


I'd argue that "existence" as a distinct ontological entity is not 
useful, but I may be wrong;-)


Best,

Martin


Right?

Rob

*From: *Crm-sig  on behalf of Martin 
Doerr 

*Date: *Wednesday, February 20, 2019 at 12:46 PM
*To: *"crm-sig@ics.forth.gr" 
*Subject: *Re: [Crm-sig] Issue 369, Phase

Dear All,

Tentatively here an extension of my previous scope note. If it becomes 
more controversial, we may drop it:



  Exxx Phase

Subclass of: E2 Temporal Entity

Superclass of:    E3 Condition State


Scope note:   This class comprises phases during the existence and 
evolution of an instance of E18 Physical Thing characterized by a 
substantial appearance, constitution or a behavior distinct from that 
in other times of its existence, or distinct in the evolution of 
things of comparable kind, such as the  nestling, fledgling, juvenile 
and adult forms of birds, but some kinds of phases may also be 
consequence of incidental changes such as accidents.


*Begin and ending of an instance of ExxxPhase is regarded to be 
observable, regardless how fuzzy they are, by the contrast of the 
prevailing conditions that characterize the phase to the times before 
and after. It is the kind of phase that determines which kinds of 
conditions identify it. Different kinds of phases may overlap on the 
same instance of E18 Physical Thing. Non-substantial properties, such 
as being owner of something, do not justify a phase*.


Best,

Martin

On 2/19/2019 8:21 PM, Martin Doerr wrote:

Dear Thanasi,

On 2/19/2019 7:13 PM, Athanasios Velios wrote:

Thank you Francesco and Martin for articulating my question
properly. I
can understand that we can already deal with the fuzzy temporal
boundaries of a phase. Martin's "observable properties" makes
it clearer
for me and perhaps it is worth emphasising in the scope note.

1) Examples of observable properties in conservation:

* "pitting" is a type of damage on metals where small pits are
formed on
the surface filled with metal salts and oxides. The existence of
white/light green powder in localised spots on copper is one
property to
help observe pitting.

So the surface enters a phase of developing pitting?


 

Re: [Crm-sig] Issue 369, Phase

[Robert Sanderson]

Dear all,

To make certain that I understand the distinctions being drawn by applying 
Phase and State to the use cases I sent during the SIG meeting in November, 
they fall into the categories in my email of social state and physical phase (a 
good mnemonic for which is which!):


* Ownership – initiated and terminated by an Acquisition, expresses the 
temporal validity of has_current_owner
(and similarly custody of the object)

This is a binary temporal relationship between an actor (the owner) and a thing 
(the object), and thus a Social State.

* Identification / Naming --  temporal validity of a P1_is_identified_by 
between something and an Identifier

This is a ternary temporal relationship between an actor (the namer), a thing 
(the named object), and an appellation (the name).
Similarly valuation, but to a Monetary Amount instead of an Appellation.  This 
is very similar to AttributeAssignment, but with temporal qualities.

* Usage -- a thing was used in a particular way (e.g. a building was a church, 
then a restaurant)

An actor (the Group that uses it), a thing (the building), and a Type (the sort 
of usage)

*  Profession, Gender, Nationality (and other classifications) of a Person

These don’t fall into the current definition as there’s no Thing involved other 
than the Person?  Or is the person the “thing”, and the society is the Actor?

Then my two physical cases, which are Phases:

* Change of dimensions – The Night Watch was cut down in 1715. This is 
observable and thus continues to be valid with the addition to the scope note.

* Existence – Picasso’s Le Peintre exists from its production in 1963 until 
1998, when its Destruction was caused by the crash of Swissair Flight 111. In 
between there is a Phase when the painting observably existed.


Right?

Rob

From: Crm-sig  on behalf of Martin Doerr 

Date: Wednesday, February 20, 2019 at 12:46 PM
To: "crm-sig@ics.forth.gr" 
Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] Issue 369, Phase

Dear All,

Tentatively here an extension of my previous scope note. If it becomes more 
controversial, we may drop it:
Exxx Phase
Subclass of: E2 Temporal Entity
Superclass of:E3 Condition State

Scope note:   This class comprises phases during the existence and 
evolution of an instance of E18 Physical Thing characterized by a substantial 
appearance, constitution or a behavior distinct from that in other times of its 
existence, or distinct in the evolution of things of comparable kind, such as 
the  nestling, fledgling, juvenile and adult forms of birds, but some kinds of 
phases may also be consequence of incidental changes such as accidents.

Begin and ending of an instance of ExxxPhase is regarded to be observable, 
regardless how fuzzy they are, by the contrast of the prevailing conditions 
that characterize the phase to the times before and after. It is the kind of 
phase that determines which kinds of conditions identify it. Different kinds of 
phases may overlap on the same instance of E18 Physical Thing. Non-substantial 
properties, such as being owner of something, do not justify a phase.

Best,

Martin


On 2/19/2019 8:21 PM, Martin Doerr wrote:
Dear Thanasi,

On 2/19/2019 7:13 PM, Athanasios Velios wrote:

Thank you Francesco and Martin for articulating my question properly. I
can understand that we can already deal with the fuzzy temporal
boundaries of a phase. Martin's "observable properties" makes it clearer
for me and perhaps it is worth emphasising in the scope note.

1) Examples of observable properties in conservation:

* "pitting" is a type of damage on metals where small pits are formed on
the surface filled with metal salts and oxides. The existence of
white/light green powder in localised spots on copper is one property to
help observe pitting.
So the surface enters a phase of developing pitting?


* "not functional" is what we call machines in industrial heritage
collections which used to perform a function, such as a printing
machine, but they no longer do because they are broken. The observable
property is that the machine has the capacity to print paper.
Yes


2) However, thinking about this further (and I hope I am not going into
circles) I am struggling to articulate the differences between Phase and
E3 Condition State. They both apply to E18 Physical Thing. Martin says
in an email on 22/11/2018 that "Phase is like Condition State bound to
the evolution of a thing". This sounds like it should be a sub-class of
Condition State, i.e. states that are only related to evolution.
Francesco, if I understood correctly, refers to change of state also for
non E18 Physical Things, i.e. epistemological as well as phenomenal (is
this correct Francesco?).
I meant "Phase" to be superclass of Condition State. I wrote "but some kinds of 
phases may also be consequence of incidental changes such as accidents." to 
make clear that it is not only evolution.


3) I propose to change th

[Crm-sig] ISSUE 369, Mental Attitude

[Martin Doerr]

Dear All,


Here my last attempt, the most demanding. I have tried to be as 
conservative as possible: individual beliefs of particular facts etc.:



SOxxx Mental Attitude

Subclass of:    E2 Temporal Entity

Superclass of:    Belief, Intention

 Scope note:   This class comprises the conscious maintaining of an 
intellectual attitude towards towards matters of knowing, believing or 
guiding actions and reactions to social and other environmental 
situations, such as, besides others, beliefs about laws governing nature 
or intentions to carry out actions. An instance of SOxxx Mental Attitude 
is individual to a human being and specific to a particular, explicit 
matter.


Best,


Martin

--

 Dr. Martin Doerr

 Honorary Head of the
 Center for Cultural Informatics

 Information Systems Laboratory
 Institute of Computer Science
 Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)

 N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
 GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece

 Vox:+30(2810)391625
 Email: mar...@ics.forth.gr
 Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl

Re: [Crm-sig] Issue 369

[Martin Doerr]

Dear Thanasi,

On 2/19/2019 7:13 PM, Athanasios Velios wrote:

Thank you Francesco and Martin for articulating my question properly. I
can understand that we can already deal with the fuzzy temporal
boundaries of a phase. Martin's "observable properties" makes it clearer
for me and perhaps it is worth emphasising in the scope note.

1) Examples of observable properties in conservation:

* "pitting" is a type of damage on metals where small pits are formed on
the surface filled with metal salts and oxides. The existence of
white/light green powder in localised spots on copper is one property to
help observe pitting.

So the surface enters a phase of developing pitting?


* "not functional" is what we call machines in industrial heritage
collections which used to perform a function, such as a printing
machine, but they no longer do because they are broken. The observable
property is that the machine has the capacity to print paper.

Yes


2) However, thinking about this further (and I hope I am not going into
circles) I am struggling to articulate the differences between Phase and
E3 Condition State. They both apply to E18 Physical Thing. Martin says
in an email on 22/11/2018 that "Phase is like Condition State bound to
the evolution of a thing". This sounds like it should be a sub-class of
Condition State, i.e. states that are only related to evolution.
Francesco, if I understood correctly, refers to change of state also for
non E18 Physical Things, i.e. epistemological as well as phenomenal (is
this correct Francesco?).
I meant "Phase" to be superclass of Condition State. I wrote "but some 
kinds of phases may also be consequence of incidental changes such as 
accidents." to make clear that it is not only evolution.


3) I propose to change the first sentence of the scope note from:

"This class comprises phases during the existence..."

to:

"This class comprises temporal spans(?) during the existence..."

to avoid saying that a "Phase is a phase".


Yes, I know I made something nearly cyclic here, but I narrowed a 
general notion of phase very much down by the following conditions. I 
was tempted to write time span in order to avoid "phase", but I have the 
impression that would come too close to the epistemological point of 
view of arbitrariness. If we talk about a "phase", I at least imply much 
more of a substantial coherence within the phase. Indeed, the comments 
we received so far suggest that "phase" in the linguistic sense is a 
much wider concept.


We could add and adjective to my definition to make it clearer, but I 
found no good adjective either (material? substantial? behavioural? all 
seems to be more special).


All the best,

Martin



All the best,

Thanasis

On 19/02/2019 11:12, Martin Doerr wrote:

Dear Thanasi,

I understand. This may need more elaboration. The type of the phase
determines the characteristic observable properties. We should see
examples.

These properties may begin and end fuzzily, but that does not affect the
concept, as long as inner-outer bounds can be assigned.

Best,

martin

On 2/18/2019 11:38 PM, Athanasios Velios wrote:

I like this scope note but my only concern is that an observer cannot
tell when one phase ends and the next one begins. How can we explain
that a phase is no longer?

All the best,

Thanasis



On 17/02/2019 19:44, Martin Doerr wrote:

Dear All,

Here a first attempt to define "phase":


Exxx Phase

Subclass of: E2 Temporal Entity

Superclass of:E3 Condition State

Scope note:This class comprises phases during the existence and
evolution of an instance of E18 Physical Thing characterized by an
appearance, constitution or a behavior distinct from that in other times
of its existence, or distinct in the evolution of things of comparable
kind, such as the nestling, fledgling, juvenile and adult forms of
birds, but some kinds of phases may also be consequence of incidental
changes such as accidents.


Best,

Martin

--

Dr. Martin Doerr

Honorary Head of the
Center for Cultural Informatics

Information Systems Laboratory
Institute of Computer Science
Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)

N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece

Vox:+30(2810)391625
Email:mar...@ics.forth.gr
Web-site:http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl


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Re: [Crm-sig] Issue 369

[Martin Doerr]

Dear Francesco,

In support of your answer to Thanasis below:

On 2/19/2019 10:53 AM, Francesco Beretta wrote:

Dear Thanasis


Le 18.02.19 à 22:38, Athanasios Velios a écrit :

I like this scope note but my only concern is that an observer cannot
tell when one phase ends and the next one begins. How can we explain
that a phase is no longer?



The whole discussion concerning 'phases' (to avoid the unclear term of 
states), which reappearred in the last years because of the insistent 
questions of the (art) historians, is about distinguishing —if I got 
it right— between the phenomenal and the epistemological perspective. 
Martin's proposal about modelling phases of appearances, behaviors, 
etc. makes the point of identifying a phenomenal temporal entity with 
a specific identity as 'phase', observable in the evolution of an 
instance of E18 Physical Thing.

Yes


Your very relevant question challenges this attempt by implicitly 
suggesting that the absence of clear 'borders' (temporal limits with 
clear, substantial appearance) of the phase do not allow to truly 
distinguish one phase from the next one. One could say that a phase is 
just about our observation, therefore purely epistemological (in the 
sense of  State – S16).


The case is clear if an event brings a substantial change in the 
'phase' like going to the hairdresser and changing the color of my 
hair. The substance of phases, in the perspective of historians, is 
that appearances, behaviours, social qualities, etc. (which we will 
certainly will have to define more precisely, providing examples) 
change over time and are significantly (i.e. substantially) different. 
But this can also happen if phases change through a long lasting 
process with no clear temporal borders. They are objectively 
recognizable as such.

Yes


The issue would then seems to be: phenomenal and not epistemological 
if clear temporal limits ? But, to turn the issue around, also events 
have phenomenal substance even if, sometimes, they do not have clear, 
or knowable temporal limits, and we have conceptual tools to cope with 
this in the CRM. Wouldn't they be suitable to be applied to 'phases' ?
I think the requirement of clear temporal limits is not the best 
criterion. For me, it is a distinctness in substantial qualities, that 
provide a certain coherence within the phase. For instance, we 
distinguish babies, adolescents and adults in the human life cycle. The 
sexual maturity being, for instance, a marker between phases, as well as 
reaching the final body size. On the other side, there are certain large 
snakes, such as the anaconda, which appear just to continue growing more 
or less until they die.


Indeed, if we agree about the existence of something substantial in 
phases (probably a substance different for different subclasses of 
Persistent items).
Yes, and there should be enough subclasses. Cut hair etc. are not really 
our concern, but we can think of phases of a Feature which are not a 
phase of the bearing Object simultaneously.


Both questions remain open in my perspective. But very relevant, at 
least for the historians.


All the best

Francesco






All the best,

Thanasis



On 17/02/2019 19:44, Martin Doerr wrote:

Dear All,

Here a first attempt to define "phase":


   Exxx Phase

Subclass of: E2 Temporal Entity

Superclass of:E3 Condition State

Scope note:This class comprises phases during the existence and
evolution of an instance of E18 Physical Thing characterized by an
appearance, constitution or a behavior distinct from that in other 
times

of its existence, or distinct in the evolution of things of comparable
kind, such as the nestling, fledgling, juvenile and adult forms of
birds, but some kinds of phases may also be consequence of incidental
changes such as accidents.


Best,

Martin

--

   Dr. Martin Doerr

   Honorary Head of the
   Center for Cultural Informatics

   Information Systems Laboratory
   Institute of Computer Science
   Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)

   N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
   GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece

   Vox:+30(2810)391625
   Email:mar...@ics.forth.gr
   Web-site:http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl


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Re: [Crm-sig] Issue 369

[Martin Doerr]

Dear Francesco,

On 2/19/2019 10:18 AM, Francesco Beretta wrote:


Hi,

I agree with Martin's definition of phase and point of view of not 
"connecting a discussion about "phases of ideas" with "phases of 
Physical Things".


I earlier thought myself that ideas, in some ways, could have 'phases' 
but it seems more suitable, in the way of modeling adopted by the CRM, 
to say that ideas (in the sense of propositional objects or of 
concepts/types — and what about symbolic objects ?) exist as such, are 
identifiable as such, and do not change in their identity over time. 
It seems to be our mind, our belief (CRMinf I2 Belief), our mental 
state (Issue 359: mental state), that can evolve, i.e. the substratum 
carries new ideas, our classification of concepts can change, our 
belief, etc. but this would be about changing of mental state not 
about changing of the ideas themselves, as such. Would this be the point ?


Yes, this is one possible and valid interpretation. In this case, it is 
not the idea that evolves, but the people develop derivatives and adopt 
them. My question was also about the identity conditions of those 
collectively supporting such evolving ideas. May be they are as 
difficult to confine as the ramifications of derivatives of ideas. We 
would need examples in which people systematically document phases of 
ideas, in order to understand what is a reasonable scope and good 
practice in respective scholarly domains. I suspect however, that the 
number of ideas in this way analyzed may be so small that it is marginal 
for us for the time being.


Would then, it this is correct, Mental state (not existing yet as 
class – Issue 359) and Belief I2 be subclasses of Exxx Phase ?


Yes, let us explore that. I'd like first to come up with independent 
definitions, and then see how they fit.



Another issue would be to ask if a E74 Group can have phases. Althogh 
the identity of the group remains the same, it can have different 
'behaviours', strategies, situations, etc. This is of course related 
to social life, to an ongoing, virtual CRMsoc extension. But insofar 
as 'Phase' is modelled as high abstraction level class in CRMbase 
itself, wouldn't be appropriate to consider also phases in the life of 
groups ?



Yes, indeed. Examples will be the starting point.


If yes, then we would need one property pointing from the temporal 
entity 'Phase' to the object concerned by the specific appearence or 
characteristic identifying the phase. But E74 Group and E18 Physical 
Things do not belong to the same class, right? By the way I was 
wondering why E74 Group is not subclass of Legal Object – E72. But if 
it was, this wouldn't arrange things, I assume, because, ont the one 
side, having phases in not the intension of the Legal Object class 
and, on the other side, there's the E90 Symbolic Object subclass there 
which wouldn't seem to have 'phases'. Or does it have indeed ?


If there is something common the Actors and Physical Things, that is 
interesting. Let us model bottom-up, and first understand what "phase" 
would mean for Groups, and what for Physical Objects separately.


The question is also, if the Mental State (or I prefer "Mental 
Attitude") is actually what makes a Group to have "phases", and that 
poses the critical question of collective mental states, which may even 
be regarded as a bad idea in a basically materialistic model as ours.


All the best,

Martin


All the best

Francesco





Le 18.02.19 à 20:40, Martin Doerr a écrit :

Dear Martijn,

On 2/18/2019 5:10 PM, van Leusen, P.M. wrote:

Dear Martin,

Would you want to tie the existence of a phase exclusively to E18 
Physical Things? One can imagine phases in the development of ideas 
as well


Yes to both. As always, we do not model the term, here "phase", but 
try to define a distinct concept we can associate with a clear-cut 
"behavior". Physical Things can be thought of as having a simple 
trajectory through space-time: Any change makes the previous 
disappear.  Therefore, substantial evolutionary steps can be 
represented with a begin and ending on a time-line.That is a concept 
I can perceive as a sort of "phase". Therefore the label.


The evolution of ideas, as any other immaterial thing, does not make 
previous ideas disappear. I will be very happy to discuss what phases 
of ideas may be confined to, whose they are, what sense of progress 
they have, and how we perceive the social effect of ideas we would 
associate with phases.


Because of the above considerations, I suggest not to connect a 
discussion about "phases of ideas" with "phases of Physical Things" 
(which include humans!!). I do not suggest that phases of humans are 
restricted to material aspects. In my proposed definition, they may 
be due to mental developments, as long as they characterize 
substantially the being.


All the best,

Martin



Martijn

On Sun, Feb 17, 2019 at 8:54 PM Martin Doerr > wrote:


Dear All,

Re: [Crm-sig] Issue 369

[Athanasios Velios]

Thank you Francesco and Martin for articulating my question properly. I
can understand that we can already deal with the fuzzy temporal
boundaries of a phase. Martin's "observable properties" makes it clearer
for me and perhaps it is worth emphasising in the scope note.

1) Examples of observable properties in conservation:

* "pitting" is a type of damage on metals where small pits are formed on
the surface filled with metal salts and oxides. The existence of
white/light green powder in localised spots on copper is one property to
help observe pitting.

* "not functional" is what we call machines in industrial heritage
collections which used to perform a function, such as a printing
machine, but they no longer do because they are broken. The observable
property is that the machine has the capacity to print paper.

2) However, thinking about this further (and I hope I am not going into
circles) I am struggling to articulate the differences between Phase and
E3 Condition State. They both apply to E18 Physical Thing. Martin says
in an email on 22/11/2018 that "Phase is like Condition State bound to
the evolution of a thing". This sounds like it should be a sub-class of
Condition State, i.e. states that are only related to evolution.
Francesco, if I understood correctly, refers to change of state also for
non E18 Physical Things, i.e. epistemological as well as phenomenal (is
this correct Francesco?).

3) I propose to change the first sentence of the scope note from:

"This class comprises phases during the existence..."

to:

"This class comprises temporal spans(?) during the existence..."

to avoid saying that a "Phase is a phase".

All the best,

Thanasis

On 19/02/2019 11:12, Martin Doerr wrote:
> Dear Thanasi,
>
> I understand. This may need more elaboration. The type of the phase
> determines the characteristic observable properties. We should see
> examples.
>
> These properties may begin and end fuzzily, but that does not affect the
> concept, as long as inner-outer bounds can be assigned.
>
> Best,
>
> martin
>
> On 2/18/2019 11:38 PM, Athanasios Velios wrote:
>> I like this scope note but my only concern is that an observer cannot
>> tell when one phase ends and the next one begins. How can we explain
>> that a phase is no longer?
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Thanasis
>>
>>
>>
>> On 17/02/2019 19:44, Martin Doerr wrote:
>>> Dear All,
>>>
>>> Here a first attempt to define "phase":
>>>
>>>
>>>Exxx Phase
>>>
>>> Subclass of: E2 Temporal Entity
>>>
>>> Superclass of:E3 Condition State
>>>
>>> Scope note:This class comprises phases during the existence and
>>> evolution of an instance of E18 Physical Thing characterized by an
>>> appearance, constitution or a behavior distinct from that in other times
>>> of its existence, or distinct in the evolution of things of comparable
>>> kind, such as the nestling, fledgling, juvenile and adult forms of
>>> birds, but some kinds of phases may also be consequence of incidental
>>> changes such as accidents.
>>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>>> --
>>> 
>>>Dr. Martin Doerr
>>>
>>>Honorary Head of the
>>>Center for Cultural Informatics
>>>
>>>Information Systems Laboratory
>>>Institute of Computer Science
>>>Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
>>>
>>>N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
>>>GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
>>>
>>>Vox:+30(2810)391625
>>>Email:mar...@ics.forth.gr
>>>Web-site:http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Crm-sig mailing list
>>> Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr
>>> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
>>>
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Re: [Crm-sig] Issue 369/ Scope note of E19?

[Martin Doerr]

Dear Franco,

This may need an addition in the scope note of E19 Physical Object: We 
definitely regard that an instance of E19 with all parts replaced is 
identical. As an Amount of Matter, it is no more the same. The position 
is, that there is no paradox, but the question is underspecified, 
because the respective category providing a sameness condition is not 
given. We adopt the position of David Wiggins in that matter. We assume 
identity criteria for E19 which are based on the continuity of coherence 
and functionality of the physical thing, and not on its substance. 
Coherence includes keeping parts together as a functional whole, as a 
set of chessman.
The identity condition for an Amount of Matter is that which is 
archaeologically important: Is there original matter in it which can 
provide evidence of its original/initial states?


"Second, suppose that each of the removed pieces were stored in a 
warehouse, and after the century, technology develops to cure their 
rotting and enable them to be put back together to make a ship. Is this 
"reconstructed" ship the original ship? And if so, is the restored ship 
in the harbour still the original ship too?"


The above is a border case, but I propose to regard the "reconstructed" 
as a new E19 object, because the continuity of functionality is broken. 
The ship was definitely not temporarily on repair within an extended 
activity making use of it.


We need not make deep philosophies out of the difference. The question 
is more practical, if the users/owners regard and treat it as the same. 
We do not make classification for the purpose of classification, but for 
assigning unambiguously properties.


Would that make sense:-)?

Best,

Martin

On 2/19/2019 10:37 AM, Franco Niccolucci wrote:

This discussion reminds me the “Ship of Theseus” paradox (for those who don’t 
remember it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus).

So Phases depend on the identity criteria assumed for the Entity.

Franco


Prof. Franco Niccolucci
Director, VAST-LAB
PIN - U. of Florence
Scientific Coordinator
ARIADNEplus - PARTHENOS

Editor-in-Chief
ACM Journal of Computing and Cultural Heritage (JOCCH)

Piazza Ciardi 25
59100 Prato, Italy



Il giorno 19 feb 2019, alle ore 09:18, Francesco Beretta 
 ha scritto:

Hi,

I agree with Martin's definition of phase and point of view of not "connecting a discussion about 
"phases of ideas" with "phases of Physical Things".

I earlier thought myself that ideas, in some ways, could have 'phases' but it 
seems more suitable, in the way of modeling adopted by the CRM, to say that 
ideas (in the sense of propositional objects or of concepts/types — and what 
about symbolic objects ?) exist as such, are identifiable as such, and do not 
change in their identity over time. It seems to be our mind, our belief (CRMinf 
I2 Belief), our mental state (Issue 359: mental state), that can evolve, i.e. 
the substratum carries new ideas, our classification of concepts can change, 
our belief, etc.   but this would be about changing of mental state not 
about changing of the ideas themselves, as such. Would this be the point ?

Would then, it this is correct, Mental state (not existing yet as class – Issue 
359) and Belief I2 be subclasses of Exxx Phase ?



Another issue would be to ask if a E74 Group can have phases. Althogh the 
identity of the group remains the same, it can have different 'behaviours', 
strategies, situations, etc. This is of course related to social life, to an 
ongoing, virtual CRMsoc extension. But insofar as 'Phase' is modelled as high 
abstraction level class in CRMbase itself, wouldn't be appropriate to consider 
also phases in the life of groups ?

If yes, then we would need one property pointing from the temporal entity 
'Phase' to the object concerned by the specific appearence or characteristic 
identifying the phase. But E74 Group and E18 Physical Things do not belong to 
the same class, right? By the way I was wondering why E74 Group is not subclass 
of Legal Object – E72. But if it was, this wouldn't arrange things, I assume, 
because, ont the one side, having phases in not the intension of the Legal 
Object class and, on the other side, there's the E90 Symbolic Object subclass 
there which wouldn't seem to have 'phases'. Or does it have indeed ?

All the best

Francesco









Le 18.02.19 à 20:40, Martin Doerr a écrit :

Dear Martijn,

On 2/18/2019 5:10 PM, van Leusen, P.M. wrote:

Dear Martin,

Would you want to tie the existence of a phase exclusively to E18 Physical 
Things? One can imagine phases in the development of ideas as well

Yes to both. As always, we do not model the term, here "phase", but try to define a distinct 
concept we can associate with a clear-cut "behavior". Physical Things can be thought of as having a 
simple trajectory through space-time: Any change makes the previous disappear.  Therefore, substantial 
evolutionary steps can be represented with a begin and ending on a 

Re: [Crm-sig] Issue 369

[Martin Doerr]

Dear Thanasi,

I understand. This may need more elaboration. The type of the phase 
determines the characteristic observable properties. We should see examples.


These properties may begin and end fuzzily, but that does not affect the 
concept, as long as inner-outer bounds can be assigned.


Best,

martin

On 2/18/2019 11:38 PM, Athanasios Velios wrote:

I like this scope note but my only concern is that an observer cannot
tell when one phase ends and the next one begins. How can we explain
that a phase is no longer?

All the best,

Thanasis



On 17/02/2019 19:44, Martin Doerr wrote:

Dear All,

Here a first attempt to define "phase":


   Exxx Phase

Subclass of: E2 Temporal Entity

Superclass of:E3 Condition State

Scope note:This class comprises phases during the existence and
evolution of an instance of E18 Physical Thing characterized by an
appearance, constitution or a behavior distinct from that in other times
of its existence, or distinct in the evolution of things of comparable
kind, such as the nestling, fledgling, juvenile and adult forms of
birds, but some kinds of phases may also be consequence of incidental
changes such as accidents.


Best,

Martin

--

   Dr. Martin Doerr

   Honorary Head of the
   Center for Cultural Informatics

   Information Systems Laboratory
   Institute of Computer Science
   Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)

   N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
   GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece

   Vox:+30(2810)391625
   Email:mar...@ics.forth.gr
   Web-site:http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl


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--

 Dr. Martin Doerr

 Honorary Head of the
 Center for Cultural Informatics

 Information Systems Laboratory
 Institute of Computer Science
 Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)

 N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
 GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece

 Vox:+30(2810)391625
 Email: mar...@ics.forth.gr
 Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl

Re: [Crm-sig] Issue 369

[van Leusen, P.M.]

Hi Martin,

I think that adequately covers my concern. I was indeed thinking of phases
in the development of *peoples' *ideas (beliefs).
Cheers,

Martijn

On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 8:40 PM Martin Doerr  wrote:

> Dear Martijn,
>
> On 2/18/2019 5:10 PM, van Leusen, P.M. wrote:
>
> Dear Martin,
>
> Would you want to tie the existence of a phase exclusively to E18 Physical
> Things? One can imagine phases in the development of ideas as well
>
> Yes to both. As always, we do not model the term, here "phase", but try to
> define a distinct concept we can associate with a clear-cut "behavior".
> Physical Things can be thought of as having a simple trajectory through
> space-time: Any change makes the previous disappear.  Therefore,
> substantial evolutionary steps can be represented with a begin and ending
> on a time-line.That is a concept I can perceive as a sort of "phase".
> Therefore the label.
>
> The evolution of ideas, as any other immaterial thing, does not make
> previous ideas disappear. I will be very happy to discuss what phases of
> ideas may be confined to, whose they are, what sense of progress they have,
> and how we perceive the social effect of ideas we would associate with
> phases.
>
> Because of the above considerations, I suggest not to connect a discussion
> about "phases of ideas" with "phases of Physical Things" (which include
> humans!!). I do not suggest that phases of humans are restricted to
> material aspects. In my proposed definition, they may be due to mental
> developments, as long as they characterize substantially the being.
>
> All the best,
>
> Martin
>
>
> Martijn
>
> On Sun, Feb 17, 2019 at 8:54 PM Martin Doerr  wrote:
>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> Here a first attempt to define "phase":
>>
>> Exxx Phase
>>
>> Subclass of:E2 Temporal Entity
>>
>> Superclass of:E3 Condition State
>>
>>
>>
>> Scope note:   This class comprises phases during the existence and
>> evolution of an instance of E18 Physical Thing characterized by an
>> appearance, constitution or a behavior distinct from that in other times of
>> its existence, or distinct in the evolution of things of comparable kind,
>> such as the  nestling, fledgling, juvenile and adult forms of birds, but
>> some kinds of phases may also be consequence of incidental changes such as
>> accidents.
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Martin
>>
>> --
>> 
>>  Dr. Martin Doerr
>>
>>  Honorary Head of the
>>  Center for Cultural Informatics
>>
>>  Information Systems Laboratory
>>  Institute of Computer Science
>>  Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
>>
>>  N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
>>  GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
>>
>>  Vox:+30(2810)391625
>>  Email: mar...@ics.forth.gr
>>  Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl
>>
>> ___
>> Crm-sig mailing list
>> Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr
>> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
>>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Martijn van Leusen
> Associate professor, Landscape Archaeology, Groningen Institute of
> Archaeology
> Poststraat 6, 9712ER Groningen (Netherlands) / phone +31 50 3636717
> Chair, Examination Board for Arts, Culture and Archaeology / Chair,
> Faculty of Arts Advisory Board for Data Management policies
> Academia page 
>
>
> --
> 
>  Dr. Martin Doerr
>
>  Honorary Head of the
>  Center for Cultural Informatics
>
>  Information Systems Laboratory
>  Institute of Computer Science
>  Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
>
>  N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
>  GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
>
>  Vox:+30(2810)391625
>  Email: mar...@ics.forth.gr
>  Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl
>
>

-- 
Dr. Martijn van Leusen
Associate professor, Landscape Archaeology, Groningen Institute of
Archaeology
Poststraat 6, 9712ER Groningen (Netherlands) / phone +31 50 3636717
Chair, Examination Board for Arts, Culture and Archaeology / Chair, Faculty
of Arts Advisory Board for Data Management policies
Academia page 

Re: [Crm-sig] Issue 369

[Francesco Beretta]

Dear Thanasis


Le 18.02.19 à 22:38, Athanasios Velios a écrit :

I like this scope note but my only concern is that an observer cannot
tell when one phase ends and the next one begins. How can we explain
that a phase is no longer?



The whole discussion concerning 'phases' (to avoid the unclear term of 
states), which reappearred in the last years because of the insistent 
questions of the (art) historians, is about distinguishing —if I got it 
right— between the phenomenal and the epistemological perspective. 
Martin's proposal about modelling phases of appearances, behaviors, etc. 
makes the point of identifying a phenomenal temporal entity with a 
specific identity as 'phase', observable in the evolution of an instance 
of E18 Physical Thing.


Your very relevant question challenges this attempt by implicitly 
suggesting that the absence of clear 'borders' (temporal limits with 
clear, substantial appearance) of the phase do not allow to truly 
distinguish one phase from the next one. One could say that a phase is 
just about our observation, therefore purely epistemological (in the 
sense of  State – S16).


The case is clear if an event brings a substantial change in the 'phase' 
like going to the hairdresser and changing the color of my hair. The 
substance of phases, in the perspective of historians, is that 
appearances, behaviours, social qualities, etc. (which we will certainly 
will have to define more precisely, providing examples) change over time 
and are significantly (i.e. substantially) different. But this can also 
happen if phases change through a long lasting process with no clear 
temporal borders. They are objectively recognizable as such.


The issue would then seems to be: phenomenal and not epistemological if 
clear temporal limits ? But, to turn the issue around, also events have 
phenomenal substance even if, sometimes, they do not have clear, or 
knowable temporal limits, and we have conceptual tools to cope with this 
in the CRM. Wouldn't they be suitable to be applied to 'phases' ?


Indeed, if we agree about the existence of something substantial in 
phases (probably a substance different for different subclasses of 
Persistent items).


Both questions remain open in my perspective. But very relevant, at 
least for the historians.


All the best

Francesco






All the best,

Thanasis



On 17/02/2019 19:44, Martin Doerr wrote:

Dear All,

Here a first attempt to define "phase":


   Exxx Phase

Subclass of: E2 Temporal Entity

Superclass of:E3 Condition State

Scope note:This class comprises phases during the existence and
evolution of an instance of E18 Physical Thing characterized by an
appearance, constitution or a behavior distinct from that in other times
of its existence, or distinct in the evolution of things of comparable
kind, such as the nestling, fledgling, juvenile and adult forms of
birds, but some kinds of phases may also be consequence of incidental
changes such as accidents.


Best,

Martin

--

   Dr. Martin Doerr

   Honorary Head of the
   Center for Cultural Informatics

   Information Systems Laboratory
   Institute of Computer Science
   Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)

   N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
   GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece

   Vox:+30(2810)391625
   Email:mar...@ics.forth.gr
   Web-site:http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl


___
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This email and any attachments are intended solely for the addressee and may 
contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this 
email and/or its attachments you must not take any action based upon them and 
you must not copy or show them to anyone. Please send the email back to us and 
immediately and permanently delete it and its attachments. Where this email is 
unrelated to the business of University of the Arts London or of any of its 
group companies the opinions expressed in it are the opinions of the sender and 
do not necessarily constitute those of University of the Arts London (or the 
relevant group company). Where the sender's signature indicates that the email 
is sent on behalf of UAL Short Courses Limited the following also applies: UAL 
Short Courses Limited is a company registered in England and Wales under 
company number 02361261. Registered Office: University of the Arts London, 272 
High Holborn, London WC1V 7EY

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Re: [Crm-sig] Issue 369

[Franco Niccolucci]

This discussion reminds me the “Ship of Theseus” paradox (for those who don’t 
remember it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus).

So Phases depend on the identity criteria assumed for the Entity.

Franco


Prof. Franco Niccolucci
Director, VAST-LAB
PIN - U. of Florence
Scientific Coordinator
ARIADNEplus - PARTHENOS

Editor-in-Chief
ACM Journal of Computing and Cultural Heritage (JOCCH) 

Piazza Ciardi 25
59100 Prato, Italy


> Il giorno 19 feb 2019, alle ore 09:18, Francesco Beretta 
>  ha scritto:
> 
> Hi, 
> 
> I agree with Martin's definition of phase and point of view of not 
> "connecting a discussion about "phases of ideas" with "phases of Physical 
> Things". 
> 
> I earlier thought myself that ideas, in some ways, could have 'phases' but it 
> seems more suitable, in the way of modeling adopted by the CRM, to say that 
> ideas (in the sense of propositional objects or of concepts/types — and what 
> about symbolic objects ?) exist as such, are identifiable as such, and do not 
> change in their identity over time. It seems to be our mind, our belief 
> (CRMinf I2 Belief), our mental state (Issue 359: mental state), that can 
> evolve, i.e. the substratum carries new ideas, our classification of concepts 
> can change, our belief, etc.   but this would be about changing of mental 
> state not about changing of the ideas themselves, as such. Would this be the 
> point ?
> 
> Would then, it this is correct, Mental state (not existing yet as class – 
> Issue 359) and Belief I2 be subclasses of Exxx Phase ?
> 
> 
> 
> Another issue would be to ask if a E74 Group can have phases. Althogh the 
> identity of the group remains the same, it can have different 'behaviours', 
> strategies, situations, etc. This is of course related to social life, to an 
> ongoing, virtual CRMsoc extension. But insofar as 'Phase' is modelled as high 
> abstraction level class in CRMbase itself, wouldn't be appropriate to 
> consider also phases in the life of groups ?
> 
> If yes, then we would need one property pointing from the temporal entity 
> 'Phase' to the object concerned by the specific appearence or characteristic 
> identifying the phase. But E74 Group and E18 Physical Things do not belong to 
> the same class, right? By the way I was wondering why E74 Group is not 
> subclass of Legal Object – E72. But if it was, this wouldn't arrange things, 
> I assume, because, ont the one side, having phases in not the intension of 
> the Legal Object class and, on the other side, there's the E90 Symbolic 
> Object subclass there which wouldn't seem to have 'phases'. Or does it have 
> indeed ?
> 
> All the best 
> 
> Francesco
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Le 18.02.19 à 20:40, Martin Doerr a écrit :
>> Dear Martijn,
>> 
>> On 2/18/2019 5:10 PM, van Leusen, P.M. wrote:
>>> Dear Martin,
>>> 
>>> Would you want to tie the existence of a phase exclusively to E18 Physical 
>>> Things? One can imagine phases in the development of ideas as well
>> Yes to both. As always, we do not model the term, here "phase", but try to 
>> define a distinct concept we can associate with a clear-cut "behavior". 
>> Physical Things can be thought of as having a simple trajectory through 
>> space-time: Any change makes the previous disappear.  Therefore, substantial 
>> evolutionary steps can be represented with a begin and ending on a 
>> time-line.That is a concept I can perceive as a sort of "phase". Therefore 
>> the label.
>> 
>> The evolution of ideas, as any other immaterial thing, does not make 
>> previous ideas disappear. I will be very happy to discuss what phases of 
>> ideas may be confined to, whose they are, what sense of progress they have, 
>> and how we perceive the social effect of ideas we would associate with 
>> phases.
>> 
>> Because of the above considerations, I suggest not to connect a discussion 
>> about "phases of ideas" with "phases of Physical Things" (which include 
>> humans!!). I do not suggest that phases of humans are restricted to material 
>> aspects. In my proposed definition, they may be due to mental developments, 
>> as long as they characterize substantially the being.
>> 
>> All the best,
>> 
>> Martin
>> 
>>> 
>>> Martijn
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Feb 17, 2019 at 8:54 PM Martin Doerr  wrote:
>>> Dear All,
>>> 
>>> Here a first attempt to define "phase":
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Exxx Phase
>>> 
>>> Subclass of:E2 Temporal Entity
>>> 
>>> Superclass of:E3 Condition State
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Scope note:   This class comprises phases during the existence and 
>>> evolution of an instance of E18 Physical Thing characterized by an 
>>> appearance, constitution or a behavior distinct from that in other times of 
>>> its existence, or distinct in the evolution of things of comparable kind, 
>>> such as the  nestling, fledgling, juvenile and adult forms of birds, but 
>>> some kinds of phases may also be consequence of incidental changes such as 
>>> accidents.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Martin
>>> 

Re: [Crm-sig] Issue 369

[Francesco Beretta]

Hi,

I agree with Martin's definition of phase and point of view of not 
"connecting a discussion about "phases of ideas" with "phases of 
Physical Things".


I earlier thought myself that ideas, in some ways, could have 'phases' 
but it seems more suitable, in the way of modeling adopted by the CRM, 
to say that ideas (in the sense of propositional objects or of 
concepts/types — and what about symbolic objects ?) exist as such, are 
identifiable as such, and do not change in their identity over time. It 
seems to be our mind, our belief (CRMinf I2 Belief), our mental state 
(Issue 359: mental state), that can evolve, i.e. the substratum carries 
new ideas, our classification of concepts can change, our belief, etc. 
but this would be about changing of mental state not about changing of 
the ideas themselves, as such. Would this be the point ?


Would then, it this is correct, Mental state (not existing yet as class 
– Issue 359) and Belief I2 be subclasses of Exxx Phase ?



Another issue would be to ask if a E74 Group can have phases. Althogh 
the identity of the group remains the same, it can have different 
'behaviours', strategies, situations, etc. This is of course related to 
social life, to an ongoing, virtual CRMsoc extension. But insofar as 
'Phase' is modelled as high abstraction level class in CRMbase itself, 
wouldn't be appropriate to consider also phases in the life of groups ?


If yes, then we would need one property pointing from the temporal 
entity 'Phase' to the object concerned by the specific appearence or 
characteristic identifying the phase. But E74 Group and E18 Physical 
Things do not belong to the same class, right? By the way I was 
wondering why E74 Group is not subclass of Legal Object – E72. But if it 
was, this wouldn't arrange things, I assume, because, ont the one side, 
having phases in not the intension of the Legal Object class and, on the 
other side, there's the E90 Symbolic Object subclass there which 
wouldn't seem to have 'phases'. Or does it have indeed ?


All the best

Francesco





Le 18.02.19 à 20:40, Martin Doerr a écrit :

Dear Martijn,

On 2/18/2019 5:10 PM, van Leusen, P.M. wrote:

Dear Martin,

Would you want to tie the existence of a phase exclusively to E18 
Physical Things? One can imagine phases in the development of ideas 
as well


Yes to both. As always, we do not model the term, here "phase", but 
try to define a distinct concept we can associate with a clear-cut 
"behavior". Physical Things can be thought of as having a simple 
trajectory through space-time: Any change makes the previous 
disappear.  Therefore, substantial evolutionary steps can be 
represented with a begin and ending on a time-line.That is a concept I 
can perceive as a sort of "phase". Therefore the label.


The evolution of ideas, as any other immaterial thing, does not make 
previous ideas disappear. I will be very happy to discuss what phases 
of ideas may be confined to, whose they are, what sense of progress 
they have, and how we perceive the social effect of ideas we would 
associate with phases.


Because of the above considerations, I suggest not to connect a 
discussion about "phases of ideas" with "phases of Physical Things" 
(which include humans!!). I do not suggest that phases of humans are 
restricted to material aspects. In my proposed definition, they may be 
due to mental developments, as long as they characterize substantially 
the being.


All the best,

Martin



Martijn

On Sun, Feb 17, 2019 at 8:54 PM Martin Doerr > wrote:


Dear All,

Here a first attempt to define "phase":


  Exxx Phase

Subclass of: E2 Temporal Entity

Superclass of:E3 Condition State

Scope note:This class comprises phases during the existence and
evolution of an instance of E18 Physical Thing characterized by
an appearance, constitution or a behavior distinct from that in
other times of its existence, or distinct in the evolution of
things of comparable kind, such as the nestling, fledgling,
juvenile and adult forms of birds, but some kinds of phases may
also be consequence of incidental changes such as accidents.


Best,

Martin

-- 


  Dr. Martin Doerr
   
  Honorary Head of the

  Center for Cultural Informatics
  
  Information Systems Laboratory

  Institute of Computer Science
  Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
   
  N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,

  GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
  
  Vox:+30(2810)391625
  Email:mar...@ics.forth.gr     
  Web-site:http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl  


___
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Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr 
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--
Dr. Martijn van Leusen

Re: [Crm-sig] Issue 369

[Athanasios Velios]

I like this scope note but my only concern is that an observer cannot
tell when one phase ends and the next one begins. How can we explain
that a phase is no longer?

All the best,

Thanasis



On 17/02/2019 19:44, Martin Doerr wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> Here a first attempt to define "phase":
>
>
>   Exxx Phase
>
> Subclass of: E2 Temporal Entity
>
> Superclass of:E3 Condition State
>
> Scope note:This class comprises phases during the existence and
> evolution of an instance of E18 Physical Thing characterized by an
> appearance, constitution or a behavior distinct from that in other times
> of its existence, or distinct in the evolution of things of comparable
> kind, such as the nestling, fledgling, juvenile and adult forms of
> birds, but some kinds of phases may also be consequence of incidental
> changes such as accidents.
>
>
> Best,
>
> Martin
>
> --
> 
>   Dr. Martin Doerr
>
>   Honorary Head of the
>   Center for Cultural Informatics
>
>   Information Systems Laboratory
>   Institute of Computer Science
>   Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
>
>   N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
>   GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
>
>   Vox:+30(2810)391625
>   Email:mar...@ics.forth.gr
>   Web-site:http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl
>
>
> ___
> Crm-sig mailing list
> Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr
> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
>
This email and any attachments are intended solely for the addressee and may 
contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this 
email and/or its attachments you must not take any action based upon them and 
you must not copy or show them to anyone. Please send the email back to us and 
immediately and permanently delete it and its attachments. Where this email is 
unrelated to the business of University of the Arts London or of any of its 
group companies the opinions expressed in it are the opinions of the sender and 
do not necessarily constitute those of University of the Arts London (or the 
relevant group company). Where the sender's signature indicates that the email 
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Re: [Crm-sig] Issue 369

[Martin Doerr]

Dear Martijn,

On 2/18/2019 5:10 PM, van Leusen, P.M. wrote:

Dear Martin,

Would you want to tie the existence of a phase exclusively to E18 
Physical Things? One can imagine phases in the development of ideas as 
well


Yes to both. As always, we do not model the term, here "phase", but try 
to define a distinct concept we can associate with a clear-cut 
"behavior". Physical Things can be thought of as having a simple 
trajectory through space-time: Any change makes the previous disappear.  
Therefore, substantial evolutionary steps can be represented with a 
begin and ending on a time-line.That is a concept I can perceive as a 
sort of "phase". Therefore the label.


The evolution of ideas, as any other immaterial thing, does not make 
previous ideas disappear. I will be very happy to discuss what phases of 
ideas may be confined to, whose they are, what sense of progress they 
have, and how we perceive the social effect of ideas we would associate 
with phases.


Because of the above considerations, I suggest not to connect a 
discussion about "phases of ideas" with "phases of Physical Things" 
(which include humans!!). I do not suggest that phases of humans are 
restricted to material aspects. In my proposed definition, they may be 
due to mental developments, as long as they characterize substantially 
the being.


All the best,

Martin



Martijn

On Sun, Feb 17, 2019 at 8:54 PM Martin Doerr > wrote:


Dear All,

Here a first attempt to define "phase":


  Exxx Phase

Subclass of: E2 Temporal Entity

Superclass of:E3 Condition State

Scope note:This class comprises phases during the existence and
evolution of an instance of E18 Physical Thing characterized by an
appearance, constitution or a behavior distinct from that in other
times of its existence, or distinct in the evolution of things of
comparable kind, such as the nestling, fledgling, juvenile and
adult forms of birds, but some kinds of phases may also be
consequence of incidental changes such as accidents.


Best,

Martin

-- 


  Dr. Martin Doerr
   
  Honorary Head of the

  Center for Cultural Informatics
  
  Information Systems Laboratory

  Institute of Computer Science
  Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
   
  N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,

  GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
  
  Vox:+30(2810)391625
  Email:mar...@ics.forth.gr     
  Web-site:http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl  


___
Crm-sig mailing list
Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr 
http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig



--
Dr. Martijn van Leusen
Associate professor, Landscape Archaeology, Groningen Institute of 
Archaeology

Poststraat 6, 9712ER Groningen (Netherlands) / phone +31 50 3636717
Chair, Examination Board for Arts, Culture and Archaeology / Chair, 
Faculty of Arts Advisory Board for Data Management policies

Academia page 



--

 Dr. Martin Doerr

 Honorary Head of the
 Center for Cultural Informatics

 Information Systems Laboratory
 Institute of Computer Science
 Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)

 N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
 GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece

 Vox:+30(2810)391625
 Email: mar...@ics.forth.gr
 Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl

Re: [Crm-sig] Issue 369

[van Leusen, P.M.]

Dear Martin,

Would you want to tie the existence of a phase exclusively to E18 Physical
Things? One can imagine phases in the development of ideas as well

Martijn

On Sun, Feb 17, 2019 at 8:54 PM Martin Doerr  wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> Here a first attempt to define "phase":
>
> Exxx Phase
>
> Subclass of:E2 Temporal Entity
>
> Superclass of:E3 Condition State
>
>
>
> Scope note:   This class comprises phases during the existence and
> evolution of an instance of E18 Physical Thing characterized by an
> appearance, constitution or a behavior distinct from that in other times of
> its existence, or distinct in the evolution of things of comparable kind,
> such as the  nestling, fledgling, juvenile and adult forms of birds, but
> some kinds of phases may also be consequence of incidental changes such as
> accidents.
>
>
> Best,
>
> Martin
>
> --
> 
>  Dr. Martin Doerr
>
>  Honorary Head of the
>  Center for Cultural Informatics
>
>  Information Systems Laboratory
>  Institute of Computer Science
>  Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
>
>  N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
>  GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
>
>  Vox:+30(2810)391625
>  Email: mar...@ics.forth.gr
>  Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl
>
> ___
> Crm-sig mailing list
> Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr
> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
>


-- 
Dr. Martijn van Leusen
Associate professor, Landscape Archaeology, Groningen Institute of
Archaeology
Poststraat 6, 9712ER Groningen (Netherlands) / phone +31 50 3636717
Chair, Examination Board for Arts, Culture and Archaeology / Chair, Faculty
of Arts Advisory Board for Data Management policies
Academia page 

[Crm-sig] Issue 369

[Martin Doerr]

Dear All,

Here a first attempt to define "phase":


 Exxx Phase

Subclass of: E2 Temporal Entity

Superclass of:E3 Condition State

Scope note:This class comprises phases during the existence and 
evolution of an instance of E18 Physical Thing characterized by an 
appearance, constitution or a behavior distinct from that in other times 
of its existence, or distinct in the evolution of things of comparable 
kind, such as the nestling, fledgling, juvenile and adult forms of 
birds, but some kinds of phases may also be consequence of incidental 
changes such as accidents.



Best,

Martin

--

 Dr. Martin Doerr

 Honorary Head of the
 Center for Cultural Informatics

 Information Systems Laboratory
 Institute of Computer Science
 Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)

 N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
 GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece

 Vox:+30(2810)391625
 Email: mar...@ics.forth.gr
 Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl