[css-d] Re: Jade True Message 16 Firefox Issue

[M Moore-Racine]

- Original Message -

> Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 22:51:07 +0200
> From: "Bruno Fassino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "'Jade True'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 
> Subject: RE: [css-d] IE overflow:visible bug, but vertically?
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain;
>   charset="us-ascii"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 16
> 
> Jade True wrote:
> 
> > I now have a baffling issue in Firefox, perhaps you have some
> > insight? I notice this same thing in other sites in Firefox
> > (currently using 1.0.6)...
> > some of the links and linked images "shift" to the right
> > slightly. You'll see in Firefox that there is now a 1px gap
> > to the right of #logoright, which
> > goes away after hovering over one of the circle links.
> 
> That's really strange. I do not see this in my Firefox (1.0.6) Do you mean
> that most of your links move when hovered? How exactly? 1px to the right?
> And then come back when the mouse goes out of them?
> Don't know what to think, let's see if someone else can reproduce the
> problem. If you have the possibility you could try with another installation
> of a Gecko based browser, maybe a Mozilla.
> 
> 
> > Oh, and I can't figure out why in IE my #main_content seems
> > to hang down lower than it does in Firefox on pages with not
> > a lot of content...
> 
> It's the top margin of the p inside the footer (not correctly managed by
> IE.)  Set it to zero:
> #footerText p {
>margin-top: 0;
> }
> 
> An unrelated note: You feed a rather different body font-size to IE than to
> others. There should be no reason for this, unless you (as a user) have
> configured the browsers to have a different default font-size.
> 
> 
> Bruno
> 


Went to the site an looked around, my firefox 1.0.6 responded beautifully to 
your design, links etc.
Actually, I truly really like your layout and the simplicity.

momora

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[css-d] Content/Footer problem - Not footer stick problem

[Schalk]

Greetings All!

Can someone please have a look at the following page: 
http://tinyurl.com/8w2lj


I got the footer to stick to the bottom but now, for some reason, the 
content area does not fill the area to the footer. Any idea what is 
preventing it? Thank you in advance.*

*

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Web Developer.Designer.Programmer.President
Volume4.Business.Solution.Developers


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Re: [css-d] CSS driven HTML email campaigns

[Don Hinshaw]

Does anyone know of a good CSS based email newsletter campaign system 
or software?


We woudl like ot start sending some HTML email, but I dont want it if 
its not CSS based preferably.


Thanks
Adam


Great overview here: http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=StyleInEmail
CSS is still a bit problematic in email depending on the email client.

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Re: [css-d] Site Check, please...

[rknstudio.com]

Thanks for everyone's input (www.rknstudio.com/sites/mlp_new/home.html). 
This is a rework/redesign of her existing www.mylittlepretty.com website.

I've sinced changed the highlighting on any of the menu items so 1)
nothing happens on any mouse overs and 2) the 'color' is now transparent.

I will continue to search for ideas on automatically centering the window
by resolution/size, but for now the client does not want her site against
the left side of the window.  So 800x resolution visitors will have to
horizontally scroll and all but 1024 will be off-centered...(she uses
1024x and is happy there)  The majority of her site visitors (like 85%)
use 1024x.  I know this is not cool, but she's happy and I will continue
to find a resolution and implement as soon as I can.

This is a cool user list and I've learned a lot from it.  I appreciate
everyone's input.

Thanks again -
Ron


> I am looking at this on a Mac and a PC.  On the About Us section all of
> the text fits nicely, however on my Mac I can't see all of the text at
> the same time and I am required to do a horizontal scroll to read if I
> want to read everything.
> Also, this isn't particular to the Mac, but from a useability standpoint
> it took me awhile to figure out that some of the menu items had sub-menu
> items.  When I moused over them they didn't light up so I assumed they
> were broken.  It would be nice if there was some sort of "fly out" that
> occurred when I moused over them so I would know that they were there.
> Also, on my PC I am running at 800x600 res and the page is not centered
> - there is a fixed margin on the left requiring me to horizontal scroll
> if I want to see the content.
> I like what you have done with the Flash ... for some reason though it
> doesn't work on my Mac.  It loads but when I click on an button nothing
> happens.  I have noticed this in IE 5 and Safari.  On my PC it is fine.
> I think you have made a nice site. :-)  Once some of the bugs are worked
> out I think your client should be pretty happy.
> Jenn
>
>
> rknstudio.com wrote:
>
>>Hey - first time submitting to this list and all...  I'm relatively new
>> to
>>CSS and this is my first complete site design.  There are a couple pages
>>not yet fully populated, but that's just content. (which will be filled
>> in
>>by end of day tomorrow)  Most of the pages are validating successfully
>>(save for the flash/as embed's.)
>>
>>I've tested successfully on the following Windows browsers:
>>IE 6, NN 7, FireFox 5, Mozilla 1.7, Opera 8
>>
>>I have no access to Mac schtuff, so that's what I'm really looking for
>>help on.  And of course the helpful "...this sucks, but I like this..."
>>
>>:)
>>
>>Thanks!
>>Ron
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>
>

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[css-d] CSS driven HTML email campaigns

[fokuss]

Does anyone know of a good CSS based email newsletter campaign system 
or software?


We woudl like ot start sending some HTML email, but I dont want it if 
its not CSS based preferably.


Thanks
Adam
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RE:[css-d] Order To Declare Link Anchors

[BJ]

"I've read there is a specific order which the anchors should be declared"


Correct order:
a
a:link
a:visited
a:hover
a:active


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Re: [css-d] Strange Comment Behaviour

[Rob Cochrane]

Rahul Gonsalves wrote:


All suggestions are welcome, both design, and CSS.

Thanks,
Rahul.



Hello Rahul,

The first thing I would do is get the page to validate HTML. Make 
certain your HTML is all correct then you will probably find most other 
issues solved. At the moment some 20 errors are reported most revolve 
around illegal commenting and div's


Rob
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Re: [css-d] Safari's Own FOUC?

[Denis Defreyne]

On 15 Aug 2005, at 10:13, Travis Nep Smith wrote:

I saw one blog post that it might have something to do with Google  
Ads, but nothing to confirm this, and no work around.


It has been mentioned over at the #webkit IRC channel, and Hyatt  
(Safari's author) knows about the FOUC. I hope that counts as  
"officially confirmed" for you.


If you have any advice for how I can get rid of this unwanted  
Safari effect, I'd appreciate it.


No workarounds yet AFAIK, I'm afraid.

Regards,

Denis Defreyne

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Re: [css-d] Styling form controls

[Garrett Smith]

Some issues are discussed here.

1. --> CSS in form elements is a crapshoot. The issue that has been
debated by many Mozilla developers and w3c memebers (I hickson, B
Zbarsky, D Baron).

3. The wiki page points out a few issues. There are tons of issues. My
much-outdated article "Forms with Style" points out some problems.
Ironically, my article, which isn't that great, is linked from the
wiki page.

0. I want to control the style of form elements. As-is, it is a
crapshoot in the browsers. you can apply some properties to some
elements in some browsers. But then when you try to float something or
position something, it might break in one browser.

Using CSS for form elements is unreliable and unpredictable -- kind of
like using CSS in the days of IE4 and NS4. But that didn't stop people
from trying and writing about it. And eventually, progress has been
made.

For a specific example of the problem, have a look at the test case
linked below.

Discussion:
See the extra "faux" padding on the button and input type="button"?
It's different in opera. Different in IE. The faux padding is absent
only in Safari.

Floating a button element is worse: It's disastrous. 

The checkbox looks like a checkbox, even though I said display: block.
Block elements should not have a check indicator.

Here's a bugzilla attachment ->

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=192602

I'm glad that there are people reading this other than mozilla
developers and CSS Spec authors. I've worked with forms on real jobs
for real sites and had a lot problems and tedious, and hackish
workarounds required to meet design and browser reqs.

Garrett

On 8/15/05, Pringle, Ron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > This question is not about using flash or javascript. It's not about
> > polling users with usability questions. Leave those for another
> > discussion. This issue is regarding controlling the appearance of
> > elements.
> >
> > This question addresses these issues:
> > 1) Styling form controls
> > 2) Using the 'display' attribute to change a form element's display
> > from "native" or "auto".
> > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=192602
> 
> Garrett-
> 
> I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what your actual question pertaining to CSS is.
> If it was "how do I style forms", then the list's wiki page should be of
> help to you.
> 
> http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=FormElements
> 
> It has a number of links discussing the practical styling of forms within
> current limitations.
> 
> ALSO, it is against list policy to crosspost to multiple lists.
> 
> Regards,
> Ron
> 


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Re: [css-d] expanding submenu

[Christian Heilmann]

> I just found my SOURCE today and thought I would pass it along. The O'Reilly
> "CSS Cookbook" by Christopher Schmitt. It's in Chapter 3: Links and
> Navigation and here is called 'Creating Collapsible Menus' (pp 78-80).
> http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/cssckbk/
> 
> There is a zip available of code and I think the example is there.
> 
> Additional comment: Chris was right to correct my comment that implied short
> JavaScript was 'better'. As he so well stated, short really has nothing to
> do with "better" or not. I meant that I used one that had much less JS
> involved.

Which might be even worse. With JavaScript I can delay the hiding of
sub elements, I can set a state that doesn't change, and it works in
every browser that supports the DOM and event handlers (which includes
all major ones since their third generation). I can make the menus
collapse and expand with a mouse and a keyboard or  I can even offer
the option not to collapse the menu - something I can only do with CSS
with an extra style sheet.

With CSS I have to hack around (with JS or JScripts in HTCs) to make
MSIE behave, I have no way of keeping the state and I cannot make the
menu work with a keyboard (unless the browser in use supports :focus
and :active).

However, CSS menus are sexier as they are newer :-) Eric pointed all
these issues out in his book, sadly enough a lot of CSS tutorials
reiterating some of his ideas fail to mention them.

CSS menus are easier to maintain for the developer, hybrid JS/CSS
menus with all the styling in the CSS are both maintainable and work
for a lot bigger user group.
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[css-d] Site check please...

[Mike Davies]

Hi,

I nearly completed the template for a new site and have a few glitches
which I hope someone can assist with.

Link : www.integra-server.co.uk/essie/ (the css is in the source)

The page appears correctly in Opera 7.54 and nearly correct in
IE5.0/Windows. There are a couple of things with Firefox :

1. background colour on #main doesn't render.
2. links on navigation bar are displaced downwards (the colours have
been left to highlight the problem)

IE5 has a narrow gap above the nav bar which I think might be a margin
error somewhere.

I would also like to add a colour bar at top and bottom of #pagewidth
but have tried both margin-top/margin-top-color and
border-top/border-top-color but neither work in any browser.

Any assistance welcomed. Also any other comments.
TIA
Regards,
Mike Davies
 
-- 
Mike Davies
Integra Web Design, Huntly, AB54 4XP
01466 700213www.integrawebdesign.co.uk

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[css-d] Dumbfounded by IE and floats

[Mike Free]

Hi,

Can anyone help?

I posted this question on the 12th but have had no replies. I'm not  
sure if it's because my question is too dumb or too difficult to  
answer!  Feedback in either direction would be much appreciated  
because I'm totally stuck! :-(



here's my original question.

I have come across a problem which I simply can't figure. Please take  
a look at this page in Safir/Firefox, then in IE . Note the large gap  
that appears in IE between the  'Online Quotes and service' section  
and the 'How we are paid' section.


The html structure uses a series of divs for layout and is  
structuredlike this:









I have floated #subsection and #newsfeed to the right, set their  
width etc then left #servicelinks and #maintext positioned relatively.
This give me precisely the layout I want in Firefox, Safari & Opera,  
but IE creates a huge gap on the page because it flows #maintext  
'after' the end of #subsection!


If you remove either #subsection or #newsfeed from the html, the  
layout is fine, but of course this is not an option.


Here's the dummy page I'm working on to create the CSS:

http://www.sammedia.com/pebbles/awb_css.htm

The stylesheet:
http://www.sammedia.com/pebbles/stylesheet.css

If anyone can help here, I'd be very grateful, have been staring at a  
screen for a week now and am losing the will to live! ;-)



Thanks

Mike Free

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Re: [css-d] site not centering in ie

[Lisa Ellington]

I read this little trick somewhere.
(I would post where but I can't remember)

Add this to your body tag:
text-align: center;

I read to add this to the main "wrapper" div:
 margin: 0 auto;
 text-align: left;

I hope this helps.

Good luck!


Lisa





On Aug 15, 2005, at 9:59 AM, Sam Leathers wrote:

I've been messing with this for a few days now, and can't figure  
out why

it isn't working. I have a layer1 div encompassing the whole site. It
centers fine (even in IE, if I put a border on it, and hide the  
header,

I can see that it's centered, but the rest if over 372px to the right,
and I could go through and do a hack to force each and every box in ie
to move over 372px, but what would be the correct solution to doing
this. It seems like such a nasty have to get it to center properly,  
and

I'd prefer to do it the right way, if there is one. By the way, I have
layer1 as positioned relative, however; I've tried absolute as well.

Thanks for any help,

Sam
--
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bearings!

[KJV] Luke 5:16 And he withdrew himself into the wilderness, and  
prayed.


Get Firefox!!!
http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=13731&t=1
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[css-d] Strange Comment Behaviour

[Rahul Gonsalves]

Dear All:

Hope that everybody has had a good weekend.

I've been having a bit of a strange problem with a fairly standard two 
column layout.


Couldn't seem to get it to work properly - then just for fun, commented 
out a  and it started working. Great, I thought, and removed the 
div - at which point, it stopped working.


Here's the page:

http://janaagraha.org/rahul/index15.htm

You can spot " -- " which is part of the comment - which leads me to 
believe that it's not being treated as a comment. Any suggestions?


Also, my "mainnav" breaks on text zoom. Any suggestions? I would like 
the black band to increase on text-resize, with the widths of the 
induvidual  staying fixed-width.


I would also like the bottom containers to float nicely into place. Any 
suggestions?


If you would like to see the layout I am trying to achieve, click here:

http://janaagraha.org/rahul/Janaagraha9thAug.png

[Warning: 785 kb PNG]


All suggestions are welcome, both design, and CSS.

Thanks,
Rahul.

--
.
Rahul Gonsalves

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Make PNG, not War.
.

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RE: [css-d] expanding submenu

[Peach Lynda L Contr 96 CG/SCTOA]

> ... The JavaScript I ended up using was one very short function. 
> I could have sworn I pulled it from either Eric Meyer's "More ... " 
> book or from The CSS Anthology along with research via Google. 

I just found my SOURCE today and thought I would pass it along. The O'Reilly
"CSS Cookbook" by Christopher Schmitt. It's in Chapter 3: Links and
Navigation and here is called 'Creating Collapsible Menus' (pp 78-80).
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/cssckbk/

There is a zip available of code and I think the example is there. 

Additional comment: Chris was right to correct my comment that implied short
JavaScript was 'better'. As he so well stated, short really has nothing to
do with "better" or not. I meant that I used one that had much less JS
involved. 

Lynda


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[css-d] clear divs within a div

[Martin Tschofen]

I have a two column layout (more or less)

See:
http://madla.home.comcast.net/tests/detail.html

In the right column I list a bunch of detail information. I wrapped
each detail inside a  (with green border). When one
of these details wraps onto two lines, the details don't fall on new
lines or each details value runs up into the previous one (try a
narrow window and wide window).

I tried a  as well as the .clearfix, but when
I do that, the content of the right column get's cleared all the way
down to the content of the left column.

Any ideas, besides putting it into a table?

Thanks in advance...martin
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[css-d] Order To Declare Link Anchors

[Clinton Gallagher]

I've read there is a specific order which the anchors should
be declared but I haven't found this issue specified at W3C. 
Is there an 'official' reference someone can provide? 
An unofficial? Thank you for digging through your Favorites ;-)

<%= Clinton Gallagher

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Re: [css-d] IE 5.5 nav list

[David Laakso]

jeremy wrote:

Hi there... I was wondering if someone could help me get this list 
working correctly in IE 5.5 and IE 5.1...

http://tct2005.com/wp
I would even appreciate it if you led me in the right direction of 
solving the problem myself. I have been looking around quite a bit for 
the solution, and thought I would ask you guys for advice.

Thanks in advance.
-jeremy



One method is adjust the problem ruleset(s) for various versions of IE 
using "conditional comments.'


FWIW: Your layout breaks when I bring the text  font-size up far enough 
to be able to read it in Gecko browsers; and I can't scale the fonts in IE.

Regards,
David Laakso

--
David Laakso
http://www.dlaakso.com/


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RE: [css-d] Styling form controls

[Pringle, Ron]

> This question is not about using flash or javascript. It's not about
> polling users with usability questions. Leave those for another
> discussion. This issue is regarding controlling the appearance of
> elements.
> 
> This question addresses these issues:
> 1) Styling form controls
> 2) Using the 'display' attribute to change a form element's display
> from "native" or "auto".
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=192602

Garrett-

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what your actual question pertaining to CSS is.
If it was "how do I style forms", then the list's wiki page should be of
help to you.

http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=FormElements

It has a number of links discussing the practical styling of forms within
current limitations.

ALSO, it is against list policy to crosspost to multiple lists.

Regards,
Ron
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[css-d] site check

[jeremy]

*I thought i should re-post this with a better subject line. It seems 
that it would be better list etiquette.


Can you take a look at this nav list in IE 5.5 and IE 5.1...
http://tct2005.com/wp
I am having trouble getting it lined up. in older browsers.
I would even appreciate it if you led me in the right direction of 
solving the problem myself. I have been looking around quite a bit for 
the solution, and thought I would ask you guys for advice.

Thanks in advance.
-jeremy
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[css-d] site not centering in ie

[Sam Leathers]

I've been messing with this for a few days now, and can't figure out why
it isn't working. I have a layer1 div encompassing the whole site. It
centers fine (even in IE, if I put a border on it, and hide the header,
I can see that it's centered, but the rest if over 372px to the right,
and I could go through and do a hack to force each and every box in ie
to move over 372px, but what would be the correct solution to doing
this. It seems like such a nasty have to get it to center properly, and
I'd prefer to do it the right way, if there is one. By the way, I have
layer1 as positioned relative, however; I've tried absolute as well.

Thanks for any help,

Sam
-- 
in life, direction is everything, distance is secondary--so keep your
bearings!

[KJV] Luke 5:16 And he withdrew himself into the wilderness, and prayed.

Get Firefox!!!
http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=13731&t=1
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[css-d] IE 5.5 nav list

[jeremy]

Hi there... I was wondering if someone could help me get this list 
working correctly in IE 5.5 and IE 5.1...

http://tct2005.com/wp
I would even appreciate it if you led me in the right direction of 
solving the problem myself. I have been looking around quite a bit for 
the solution, and thought I would ask you guys for advice.

Thanks in advance.
-jeremy

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Re: [css-d] Site check

[Rob Cochrane]

Hershel Robinson wrote:

http://www.wait-till-i.com/index2.php




Win XP Pro SP2 platform

FF 1.04 all fine
IE6 seems fine

Opera 7.54 fine
NN 8 fine

Xandros 2.4 linux (Debian) This is a PII 400mhz test bed.
Mozilla 1.6 browser
a break appears at #post-137 etc causing a shift right of about 30pix 
then all carries on fine.


Rob



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Re: [css-d] Site check

[Lisa Ellington]

FF Mac -- works great.
Love the popups!


On Aug 15, 2005, at 6:48 AM, Christian Heilmann wrote:


After a few boring months, I thought adding some different style to my
blog would be a grand idea.

Please be so kind and give it a check and tell me if there are any
huge issues with it or what could be done better:

http://www.wait-till-i.com/index2.php

As of now, the linking is going back to the real blog, to check the
new layout change the index.php to index2.php

http://www.wait-till-i.com/index2.php?p=136
instead of
http://www.wait-till-i.com/index.php?p=136

The about page is not there yet, so don't bother :-)

thanks,

Chris

--
Chris Heilmann
Blog: http://www.wait-till-i.com
Writing: http://icant.co.uk/
Binaries: http://www.onlinetools.org/
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Re: [css-d] Site check

[Hershel Robinson]

http://www.wait-till-i.com/index2.php


FF Win2K -- looks great.

IE6 -- FOUC problem with the popup links for Posts, Categories, etc. 
When they DO popup, the background loads delayed and so at first they're 
unreadable. Then when I put the mouse over them, the background 
disappears! They're left text over text and unusable.


In FF, it's great--I like the popup effect. You just need to get it to 
work in IE. Overall, also, I like the look.


Hershel
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[css-d] Site check

[Christian Heilmann]

After a few boring months, I thought adding some different style to my
blog would be a grand idea.

Please be so kind and give it a check and tell me if there are any
huge issues with it or what could be done better:

http://www.wait-till-i.com/index2.php

As of now, the linking is going back to the real blog, to check the
new layout change the index.php to index2.php

http://www.wait-till-i.com/index2.php?p=136
instead of 
http://www.wait-till-i.com/index.php?p=136

The about page is not there yet, so don't bother :-)

thanks,

Chris

-- 
Chris Heilmann 
Blog: http://www.wait-till-i.com
Writing: http://icant.co.uk/  
Binaries: http://www.onlinetools.org/
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[css-d] Safari's Own FOUC?

[Travis Nep Smith]

Hi there.

On my site, using Safari, some of the CSS seems to load a little 
after the page itself loads.


This results in black text and ugliness for a short moment.  I think 
this is called the Flash of Unstyled Content (FOUC) when it happens 
with IE, but I was unable to find much discussion of this happening 
with Safari 1.3.


I saw one blog post that it might have something to do with Google 
Ads, but nothing to confirm this, and no work around.


http://www.hopstudios.com/nep/unvarnished/item/safari_fouc_flash_of_unstyled_content/

If you have any advice for how I can get rid of this unwanted Safari 
effect, I'd appreciate it.


TTFN
Travis

--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]AIM:NepSmithhttp://www.hopstudios.com/

His / Tomato / Was the mushy type / Until his beard / Grew over-ripe
  Burma-Shave 1952
.
What's on? "How You Remind Me" by Nickelback
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[css-d] space in ie

[ross]

http://www.blue-fly.co.uk/example.jpg - the red gap between 





This is ok in firefox but a gap appears in IE. There are two 800px divs then a 
holder which holds all the buttons, then the info box holder which has a 9px 
top (rounded corners), middle (repeating) section for all my text and images 
and a 9px bottom (rounded corners).


The HTML

---



  



  
  










  asdasdasdasd
  a
  sdsa
  d
   
   
   
   
   
   




  


The css

-

#container {
 width: 800px;
 background-color: #FF;
 margin-right: auto;
 margin-left: auto;
 position: relative;
 height: auto; 
}
#info_contents {
 background-image: url(images/bf_06.gif);
 background-repeat: repeat-y;
 width: 552px;
 height: auto;
}
#info_holder {
 width: 552px;
 height: auto;
 background-color: #CC3300;
 float: left;
}
#info_top {
 width: 552px;
 height: 9px;
 background-repeat: no-repeat;
 float: left;
 clear: both;
 background-image: url(images/bf_04.gif);
}
#info_bottom {
 width: 552px;
 height: 9;
 background-image: url(images/bf_13.gif);
 background-repeat: no-repeat;
 position: relative;
 float: left;
 background-color: #FF;
}
#thin_banner {
 width: 800px;
 background-color: #00FF33;
 margin-right: auto;
 margin-left: auto;
 position: relative;
 height: 50px;
 background-image: url(images/bf_02.gif);
 background-repeat: no-repeat;
 margin-bottom: 2px;
}
#footer {
 width: 800px;
 background-image: url(images/bf_13.gif);
 background-repeat: no-repeat;
 background-color: #CC;
 height: 20px;
 
}
#end_bit {
 position: relative;
 background-image: url(images/bf_06.gif);
 background-repeat: no-repeat;
 float: left;
 height: 503px;
 width: 46px;
 background-position: left top;
}
#middlebit {
 background-image: url(/images/bf_02.gif);
 float: left;
 background-repeat: no-repeat;
 width: 118px;
 height: 503px;
 position: relative;
 
}
.thin_border {
 background-image: url(images/bf_02.gif);
 background-repeat: no-repeat;
 height: 50px;
 width: 800px;
 position: relative;
}
.clear {
 clear: both;
 float: none;
}
#button_container {
 width: 248px;
 height: auto;
 float: left;
 }
#bottom {
 background-repeat: no-repeat;
 height: 73px;
 width: 800px;
 background-color: #00FF99;
 clear: both;
 background-position: center top;
 background-image: url(/images/bf_14.gif);
}

#bluefly_but a {
 width: 248px;
 height: 36px;
 background: url(images/buttons/bf_but.gif) no-repeat;
 position: relative;
 display: block;
 float: left;
 clear: both;

}
#bluefly_but  a:hover { 
background-position: -248px;

}

#services a {
 background: url(images/buttons/services_but.gif) no-repeat;
 height: 35px;
 width: 248px;
 position: relative;
 float: left;
 clear: both;

}
#services a:hover { 
background-position: -248px;

}

#projects a {
 width: 248px;
 height: 40px;
 background: url(images/buttons/projects_but.gif) no-repeat;
 position: relative;
 float: left;
 clear: both;


}
#projects a:hover { 
background-position: -248px

}
#contact a {
 width: 248px;
 height: 34px;
 background: url(images/buttons/contact_but.gif) no-repeat;
 position: relative;
 float: left;
 clear: both;


}
#contact a:hover { 
background-position: -248px

}
#links a {
 width: 248px;
 height: 38px;
 background: url(images/buttons/links_but.gif) no-repeat;
 position: relative;
 float: left;


}
#links a:hover { 
background-position: -248px

}

#buttons_bottom{
 background-image: url(images/bf_12.gif);
 background-repeat: no-repeat;
 height: 188px;
 width: 248px;
 float: left;
}

p {
margin: 0; 
padding: 0; 

}
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