Re: [css-d] png color and IE7

[Ido Dekkers]

thank you all for your reply,

i'll try these and see how it works

Ido
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Re: [css-d] setting width of

[Paul Novitski]

At 3/6/2007 10:34 PM, Joel D Canfield wrote:
>How can I set the width of the navigation on the right so each link is
>the same width? Meaning, the background/hover effects, etc.
>
> http://www.grassies.com/g/
>
>Setting the width of  just doesn't seem to have any effect
>whatsoever.


Check out the spec:
_

CSS 2.1 Specification
10 Visual formatting model details
10.2 Content width: the 'width' property
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/visudet.html#the-width-property

'width'
...
 Applies to: all elements but non-replaced inline 
elements, table rows, and row groups
...
This property specifies the content width of boxes generated by 
block-level and replaced elements.

This property does not apply to non-replaced inline-level elements.
_

In order to apply a width to an inline element such as A, you have to 
change it to block:

 #navlist a
 {
 display: block;
 }

Now its width will naturally extend to the limits of its parent, so 
you can apply the width you want to either the anchors or their 
parent paragraphs.


Speaking of which...  You didn't ask for critique of your markup, but 
I can't help but suggest that you mark up your navlist as an 
unordered list instead of a series of paragraphs in a div:

 
 Home
 Expo
 Links
 About
 FAQ
 Contact
 
to:
 
 Home
 Expo
 Links
 About
 FAQ
 Contact
 

Making this change might affect your styling slightly -- but not 
enormously since both DIV & UL and both P & LI are naturally 
block-level elements.  The advantage of doing so will be to make the 
content of your page just that much more structured.

Regards,

Paul
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Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com 

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Re: [css-d] setting width of

[Michael Stevens]

You'll want to give navcontainer a width... Speaking of that why do you have
id="navcontainer" and immediately add another div with the id="navlist",
especially when you don't have a navlist in your CSS?

Mike

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joel D Canfield
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 11:35 PM
To: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Subject: [css-d] setting width of 

I'm stumped (again)

How can I set the width of the navigation on the right so each link is the
same width? Meaning, the background/hover effects, etc.

http://www.grassies.com/g/

Setting the width of  just doesn't seem to have any effect whatsoever.

Thanks.

joel

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[css-d] setting width of

[Joel D Canfield]

I'm stumped (again)

How can I set the width of the navigation on the right so each link is
the same width? Meaning, the background/hover effects, etc.

http://www.grassies.com/g/

Setting the width of  just doesn't seem to have any effect
whatsoever.

Thanks.

joel

--
Joel D Canfield
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
916.771.9297 home
916.765.1712 cell
286 Alta Vista Avenue
Roseville CA 95678
Intranet Intelligence
Streamline Business Tasks with Web Tools
http://Streamliine.com/ 
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Re: [css-d] Width blowout in IE

[Mark Lundquist]

On Mar 6, 2007, at 4:55 PM, Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:

> Add...
>
> #footer {margin-right: -25px;}
>
> ...to avoid IE's 'auto-expansion' bug.

Perfect, thanks!   I think you spoon-fed me a fix for a problem that 
was substantially like this one, a couple of months ago... but I didn't 
really understand it, and so I didn't remember it.

I guess what is happening is that Exploiter essentially treats 'width' 
like 'min-width', thereby nullifying 'overflow: visible', right?  So 
now we're going to say "OK, and by the way this thing needs to have 
negative 25px of space from its right border to the next-rightmost 
element" — which in this case is the container.  In other words, we're 
constraining the container's right border to actually come in to the 
left of the footer's right border, making Exploder scroonch the 
container width back down to the size we want.

Something along those lines?

—ml—
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[css-d] Faux Columns not scaling to the bottom of page - revisited

[~davidLaakso]

Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:
> Jon Hughes wrote:
>  
>> This actually does not agree with my IE7, as you can see from the 
>> screenshot I included.
>>
>> http://goonsquad.org/santini/error.gif
>> 
>
> I'm not surprised that it doesn't work in IE7, but that has nothing to
> do with the hack/bug mentioned since IE7 can't see that if it is
> properly targeted with a '* html' hack as I have done.
>
> The problem is probably what I wrote in the original thread:
>
> " Now, I still wonder how IE7 could get it right, since 'min-height:
> 100%' on a parent doesn't work as calculation-base in any other browser.
> Nevertheless, that's what I served IE7 as a correction for its lack of
> support for 'display: table', and you are telling me that it works..? "
>
> Yes, I expected #faux-2 to fail because of the reasons given above.
> However, since I can't test in IE7 myself, I have to rely on what others
> see and tell me.
>
> -
>
> Ok, so now I have added something more for IE7, but I still can't see
> that bugger. Will someone with a large (tall) enough screen tell me if
> the minor addition for IE7 has the intended effect?
>
> Georg
>   





XP :: IE/7.0 at 1280 by 1024
gs01.gif at text-size "medium"
gs02.gif at text-size "largest"

Best,
~dL

-- 
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/

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Re: [css-d] Faux Columns not scaling to the bottom of page

[Ernie Finlay]

Looks good,both side columns are approx. 2em's short of reaching the bottom.



From: Gunlaug Sørtun <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
CC: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Subject: Re: [css-d] Faux Columns not scaling to the bottom of page
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 23:23:26 +0100

Ernie Finlay wrote:
> In IE7,side columns and text are blocked level with the bottom of the
>  building photo.

Ok, so let's see how far a bit of "blind hacking" of IE7 leads us.
Same test-page needs checking in IE7...

>> 

>> CSS: 

Georg
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Re: [css-d] How to apply my styles to contents of an iframe?

[Don Miller]

As far as I know, you can call out multiple css files and if one isn't 
found, the other is used.  Try having the other person include your css file 
name on that one page with the correct path.  This should work for both of 
you because when displayed on his site, only that css file will found and 
when displayed on your site, only your file will be found.

@inport on that page should also work.

Don


- Original Message - 
From: "david" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "css-d" 
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 5:33 PM
Subject: Re: [css-d] How to apply my styles to contents of an iframe?


> Bradley Wright wrote:
>> On 6 Mar 2007, at 16:08, david wrote:
>>> Any way that I can use CSS to make my styles apply to the contents? Or
>>> is there a convenient way using PHP to include his original file while
>>> stripping the  tags from it?
>>
>> The PHP question is out of the scope of this list, but as to your
>> other question:
>>
>> Iframes are sandboxed from the parent page, so any styles you use
>> there will *not* propagate down to the contents of the iframe. Only
>> CSS files included in the source of the iframe will be used for styling.
>
> Thanks, that's what I was afraid of. I can't include my CSS files in the
> iframe source, that might interfere with the source's use on the other 
> site.
>
> -- 
> David
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> authenticity, honesty, community
> __
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>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.7/712 - Release Date: 3/6/2007 
> 3:42 PM
>
> 

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[css-d] 100% height challenges...

[Rolf Mortenson]

I've been building this layout concept for a project that does  
everything I want it to... almost. The basic markup is where I want  
it to be, but I'm having one issue.

You can view it here: http://tinyurl.com/25r3pq

The layout is done via css, and there's a little javascript to open  
and close the left panel. There are some IE hacks in the css that  
will get moved to conditional comments. I've played with the YUI  
reset.css and fonts.css in this layout, but the main layout css is  
embedded in the head.

To get the layout to fill the screen vertically, I've used percentage  
heights. This is okay, but ideally I'd prefer to set the height of at  
least the div#top in something more fixed... ems would be fine. But I  
can't figure out how to do that while getting everything else to work  
as it is now (left and right scrolling independently, footer sitting  
politely at the bottom). Is it possible without knowing the exact  
window height ?

I appreciate any suggestions!

Rolf


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Re: [css-d] How to apply my styles to contents of an iframe?

[david]

david wrote:
> Bradley Wright wrote:
>> On 6 Mar 2007, at 16:08, david wrote:
>>> Any way that I can use CSS to make my styles apply to the contents? Or
>>> is there a convenient way using PHP to include his original file while
>>> stripping the  tags from it?
>> The PHP question is out of the scope of this list, but as to your  
>> other question:
>>
>> Iframes are sandboxed from the parent page, so any styles you use  
>> there will *not* propagate down to the contents of the iframe. Only  
>> CSS files included in the source of the iframe will be used for styling.
> 
> Thanks, that's what I was afraid of. I can't include my CSS files in the 
> iframe source, that might interfere with the source's use on the other site.

Reply to myself so the list has the info: I removed the abovementioned 
tags from the file and checked it inside an iframe. It still rendered 
just fine inside the iframe (albeit without my CSS formatting), so I 
modified the page to include the guy's original file (sans tags) in my 
index.php file. Then I emailed him to ask if he could leave out the html 
and body tags in the future.

-- 
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Re: [css-d] Width blowout in IE

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Mark Lundquist wrote:
> Anybody? :-)

Sure.

>> dev.hearthstone.wd-2.net

Add...

#footer {margin-right: -25px;}

...to avoid IE's 'auto-expansion' bug.
I don't think that addition will disturb other browsers, so shouldn't
need to hack it in.

regards
Georg
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Re: [css-d] Width blowout in IE

[Mark Lundquist]

Anybody? :-)

thx,
—ml—

On Mar 4, 2007, at 8:50 PM, Mark Lundquist wrote:

> OK... this layout is almost done, thx to everyone who's helped me 
> out...:
>
>   dev.hearthstone.wd-2.net
>
> The only thing left is that gray footer sort of thing.  In Exploder, 
> it... well, it blows up :-(.  You can see what I'm shooting for in 
> Firefox or Safari, which do the right thing.  I'm relying on the 
> default "overflow: visible", and IE won't play ball.
>
> Any ideas how to work around this?
>
> thx,
> —ml—
>

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Re: [css-d] How to apply my styles to contents of an iframe?

[david]

Bradley Wright wrote:
> On 6 Mar 2007, at 16:08, david wrote:
>> Any way that I can use CSS to make my styles apply to the contents? Or
>> is there a convenient way using PHP to include his original file while
>> stripping the  tags from it?
> 
> The PHP question is out of the scope of this list, but as to your  
> other question:
> 
> Iframes are sandboxed from the parent page, so any styles you use  
> there will *not* propagate down to the contents of the iframe. Only  
> CSS files included in the source of the iframe will be used for styling.

Thanks, that's what I was afraid of. I can't include my CSS files in the 
iframe source, that might interfere with the source's use on the other site.

-- 
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Re: [css-d] Language switching

[Paul Novitski]

From: Paul Novitski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Every bilingual page on the site contains both languages, with 
only one of them displayed at a time.

In the absence of javascript, the Japanese/English toggle 
requests the current page from the server with the requested 
language selected (by specifying it in the body class).

With javascript enabled, the language toggle simply switches the 
body class and the displayed language changes immediately.

>>At 3/5/2007 06:28 PM, Chris Chen wrote:
>>>Could you elaborate a bit on what you mean by "switch body class" 
>>>with a simple example?

>Paul Novitski wrote:
>>Here's one example of this technique.  Plug the requested language 
>>into the body class:
>>  
>>or
>>  

At 3/6/2007 01:08 PM, Erik Visser wrote:
>so for every language you have a seperate html file?


No.  I suppose that's a possible approach, but I never work like 
that.  Most of the time I keep variable content in an SQL database 
and merge it with a template (providing the additional advantage of 
making it easy for a non-technical client to modify the text without 
mucking with the layout and styling).  In any event I wouldn't 
maintain two marked up pages with different language text unless 
there were some overriding reason -- such as two languages being so 
different that they require different markup -- although, again, I'd 
still be inclined to keep the text in the database and merge it with 
two separate templates.

If a round-trip to the server is used to switch language, each 
downloaded page instance can contain just one language.

If you want to be able to switch language instantly, you have to 
download all texts in a single page and toggle between them 
dynamically.  This would obviously get sluggish with long texts or a 
large number of languages.  Although it's fun to be able to switch 
languages instantly, most multilingual sites don't require such 
immediate response time.  Once a visitor selects their preferred 
language they tend to stay there.  Downloading multiple texts when 
only one is needed seems needlessly inefficient.  It might make a lot 
of sense in a language training website, for example, when the 
visitor can switch back and forth rapidly to check their own 
translation of a text with the one offered.

Regards,

Paul
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Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com 

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Re: [css-d] How to apply my styles to contents of an iframe?

[Bradley Wright]

On 6 Mar 2007, at 16:08, david wrote:
> Any way that I can use CSS to make my styles apply to the contents? Or
> is there a convenient way using PHP to include his original file while
> stripping the  tags from it?

The PHP question is out of the scope of this list, but as to your  
other question:

Iframes are sandboxed from the parent page, so any styles you use  
there will *not* propagate down to the contents of the iframe. Only  
CSS files included in the source of the iframe will be used for styling.


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[css-d] How to apply my styles to contents of an iframe?

[david]

At this page:

http://www.clanjones.org/stnicks/music/index.php

I have a situation where the content of an iframe source file will be 
used on two separate websites, and the guy who provides the content of 
the iframe source only wants to maintain the one file. If you look at it 
now, you'll see that the browser defaults are being used for the content 
of the iframe, instead of my styles in the head (they're very simplified 
for concept testing right now!).

Any way that I can use CSS to make my styles apply to the contents? Or 
is there a convenient way using PHP to include his original file while 
stripping the  tags from it?

Thanks!

-- 
David
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [css-d] css-d Digest, Vol 52, Issue 9 - Faux Columns not scaling to the bottom of page - revisited

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Jon Hughes wrote:
> This actually does not agree with my IE7, as you can see from the 
> screenshot I included.
> 
> http://goonsquad.org/santini/error.gif

I'm not surprised that it doesn't work in IE7, but that has nothing to
do with the hack/bug mentioned since IE7 can't see that if it is
properly targeted with a '* html' hack as I have done.

The problem is probably what I wrote in the original thread:

" Now, I still wonder how IE7 could get it right, since 'min-height:
100%' on a parent doesn't work as calculation-base in any other browser.
Nevertheless, that's what I served IE7 as a correction for its lack of
support for 'display: table', and you are telling me that it works..? "

Yes, I expected #faux-2 to fail because of the reasons given above.
However, since I can't test in IE7 myself, I have to rely on what others
see and tell me.

-

Ok, so now I have added something more for IE7, but I still can't see
that bugger. Will someone with a large (tall) enough screen tell me if
the minor addition for IE7 has the intended effect?

Georg
-- 
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Re: [css-d] css-d Digest, Vol 52, Issue 9

[Jon Hughes]

>I prefer to exclude those CCs entirely - if you don't mind. IE6 does
>well with a negative margin-bottom on the outer container, since it
>hides the overshooting part anyway...
>
>...and yes, it's a genuine IE/win bug that comes handy at times.
>
>
--


This actually does not agree with my IE7, as you can see from the screenshot
I included.

http://goonsquad.org/santini/error.gif



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Re: [css-d] Background-image at end of link not displaying properly when there's a line break in IE

[Allison Bloodworth]

Yes, I did see this...thanks so much for sending it along! It's funny, I
checked the archives and actually sent my message before this one appeared,
and for some strange reason my message didn't appear until about 6 hours
after I posted it.  

I also noticed that even wikipedia was having problems with this, and since
our site is pretty big, we decided to just hide the offsite icons from all
versions of IE. I noticed that in IE 7 on your site
(http://home.tiscali.nl/developerscorner/nederdev/test-link-icon6.htm) the
last word which has the  tags around it appears slightly lower than the
rest of the link text preceding it. Is this another IE bug? It doesn't
happen in Firefox. I'm wondering if using the span tag would solve this
problem?
-Original Message-
From: francky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 8:11 PM
To: Allison Bloodworth
Cc: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Subject: Re: [css-d] Background-image at end of  link not displaying
properly when there's a line break in IE

Allison Bloodworth wrote:
> Hi, 
>
> I am having a problem where a background-image at end of an  link is
not
> displaying properly in IE when it contains a line break. See
> http://technology.berkeley.edu/msvista/, and after links like "Minimum
> Security Standards," "significant hardware investment," and "UC Berkeley
> BearShare Windows Vista site" there should be a little "offsite" icon,
> similar to the one wikipedia uses. 
> [...]
>   
Hi Allison,
(That was quite a year ago, when we talked about the B. News site. :-)  )
I didn't remark this question before, but probably you have seen the 
POOF! thread in the meantime:

* POOF! start here
  

* and the updated workaround here
 


Success and greetings!
francky

btw:
As you can see in the right column halfway down in the Dutch version 
,
IE is normally placing the icons somewhere in the vertical middle of the 
amount of lines which the link is taking...

- In Wikipedia is is going wrong in IE too, but mostly you don't see it 
because the links are only 1 or 2 words, and the probability of breaking 
in 2 lines is not so big then.
- Example of things going wrong in IE is also the small link column in:

* http://www.spip.net/en






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[css-d] IE, background:transparent in ul>li>a

[Anatolio Nobre]

Hi,
I have the following problem:

a test page is at
http://tolio.org/test/

as you can see, there is a top navigation menu wich is a ul:


Homepage
About me
Portfolio
Contacts


The CSS goes like: ( i have no hover state)

ul {
position: relative;
width: 600px;
background: url(navigation.png) no-repeat top center;
height: 76px;
list-style-type: none;
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
top: 142px;
}

li#bu1 a, li#bu2 a, li#bu3 a, li#bu4 a {
background-color: transparent;
position: absolute;
width: 100px;
height: 40px;
bottom: 30px;
   
   
}
li#bu1 a {left: 40px}
li#bu2 a {left: 170px}
li#bu3 a {left: 295px}
li#bu4 a {left: 420px}

ul li a span {
display: none;
}

"ul" is set to relative and the "li a" are set to absolute.
This seems to work ok in mozzila but i lose the link area in IE ( if i 
change the background-color: transparent; to any color, i get them back.

Thx in advance
tolio
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Re: [css-d] Background-image at end of link not displaying properly when there's a line break in IE

[francky]

Allison Bloodworth wrote:
> Yes, [...]
>
> I noticed that in IE 7 on your site
> (http://home.tiscali.nl/developerscorner/nederdev/test-link-icon6.htm) the
> last word which has the  tags around it appears slightly lower than the
> rest of the link text preceding it. 
Hi Allison,
Correct! IE7 is displaying the last word of an iconized external link 
1px lower.
> Is this another IE bug? It doesn't happen in Firefox. 
Yes, FF is alright in this example. Is it a bug? Yes and no (not more 
than in IE6):

* This solution is good working in IE6, for I used the * html hack
  for IE.
* I made this page at a moment I couldn't check IE7. - And I had a
  bit of hope that IE7 would do it better than IE6...
* Later I tested in IE7, and saw IE7 was doing the same as IE6. So I
  updated my English version with a Conditional Comment for all
  IE´s, including IE7.
* ... but didn´t update my Dutch page yet.

Point is, that FF, Opera and IE where reacting different. To get Opera 
alright, I had to add a line to correct Opera. Happily this did not 
influence FF. But IE (which was right before I made the Opera fix) was 
reacting wrong on the Opera fix! So I had to make an IE only fix to 
correct the Opera fix for IE (are you still there? ;-) ). The whole 
operation was like pushing on an air-bed: pushing down the one browser 
was lifting the others. :-)
> I'm wondering if using the span tag would solve this problem?
>   

* ... so the use of a  instead of a  will not make any
  difference (css still the same). Only solution is to use the CC to
  catch IE7. - If IE8 is coming, we have to see again...

I just updated my Dutch version 
http://home.tiscali.nl/developerscorner/nederdev/test-link-icon6.htm
with the CC and now IE7 has to obey too (in the last "Lorem" paragraph) 
- I´ll check that tomorrow.
To compare: I renamed the old version in 
http://home.tiscali.nl/developerscorner/nederdev/test-link-icon6-ori.htm

Conclusion: the updated English version 
http://home.tiscali.nl/developerscorner/css-discuss/test-link-iconENupdate.htm
is the one with the best description and performance.
It´s less complicating to maintain 1 site in 1 language! :-)

Greetings,
francky
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Re: [css-d] In-frame navigation with CSS

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Chris Chen wrote:
>> Sounds like you want to replace a perfectly good browser-feature
>> with something that's doesn't work half as well, but that's not my
>> problem.
> 
> 
> So, in the new CSS era, using  is not considered a misuse
> of presentation tag inside HTML? (If so, I'll just keep
> consientiously using .)

I don't think many on this list would even consider the use of frameset.
Frameset is regarded as an obsolete, inflexible and user-unfriendly way
to lay out pages/sites.
I will *not* recommend it, but there's a standard to follow on the
source-code level...




The examples presented in my last response have nothing to do with
frameset. They are CSS based and can be implemented in such a way that
they are both future-proof (the method can be upgraded to go with future
(X)HTML and CSS standards) and more user-friendly.

This CSS method has also been around for a while...

...and is supported by the latest versions of all major browsers -
without any workarounds.

Recommended - I use it all the time...

...but maybe not the way you had in mind.

regards
Georg
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [css-d] In-frame navigation with CSS

[Chris Chen]

>Sounds like you want to replace a perfectly good browser-feature with
>something that's doesn't work half as well, but that's not my problem.

So, in the new CSS era, using  is not considered a misuse of 
presentation tag inside HTML? (If so, I'll just keep consientiously using 
.)

Thanks,
Chris

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Re: [css-d] containing floats

[~davidLaakso]

~davidLaakso wrote:
> ron zisman wrote:
>   
>> http://www.ricochet.org/adv_buyer/new_tue.html
>>
>> can't seem to get clear on how to contain floats.
>>
>>
>>
>> ron zisman
>>
>>   
>> 
> Same here :-) .
>
> What I find fascinating is playing with the possibilities.
> 
>
> Best,
> ~dL
>
>   
And as you can see, when you scale the fonts, that I have a lot to learn 
:-[ .
~dL

-- 
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/

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Re: [css-d] containing floats

[~davidLaakso]

ron zisman wrote:
>
> http://www.ricochet.org/adv_buyer/new_tue.html
>
> can't seem to get clear on how to contain floats.
>
>
>
> ron zisman
>
>   
Same here :-) .

What I find fascinating is playing with the possibilities.


Best,
~dL

-- 
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/

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Re: [css-d] rtl languages - dir="rtl" not working for title tag... somehow should CSS be involved?

[Jukka K. Korpela]

On Tue, 6 Mar 2007, Web Developer wrote:

> As you can see in a pic here, the title bar of window messes up with
> that method as well.
> http://arihoj.freehostia.com/arabic.html

Thank you for posting the address of a demo page. The situation looks much 
clearer now.

Looking at the page on IE 7 and FF 2 on Windows XP SP 2, I see the title 
bar of the window presenting the text correctly, as in the document's 
content. There's just the problem of truncation that I discussed in my 
previous reply (where I unfortunately confused left with right; the point 
is that the truncation indicator "..." is on the _right_ as usual, but it 
should be on the _left_ for right-to-left text). Apparently the problem 
you observed is more serious: the entire writing direction is wrong.

I think the problem is in the support for right to left writing in the 
_system_, somehow. This might be due to using some older version of 
Windows. Adding support to Arabic writing might help, though this would of 
course not solve the problem in web authoring - you cannot install 
additional support on your visitors' systems.

I think there's nothing we can do about this in CSS. You might consider 
asking about this on some other forum, like 
news:comp.infosystems.www.authoring.misc
where you can probably find people who know the problems of using Arabic 
letters on the web.

-- 
Jukka "Yucca" Korpela, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/

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Re: [css-d] rtl languages - dir="rtl" not working for title tag... somehow should CSS be involved?

[Web Developer]

On 3/6/07, L. David Baron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tuesday 2007-03-06 02:36 -0500, Web Developer wrote:
> > Both FF2 and IE7 goof on the title tag. although FF2 displays the
> > title tag correctly in the 'tab' bar, but not in main browser address
> > bar. Weird.
>
> My "main browser address bar", I think you mean the title bar of the
> window.  The text there is drawn by the operating environment, not
> by the browser within it,

Yeh thats what I meant, I thought maybe Jukka's last method might work
as I saw in mentioned before that title tag isnt affected by dir
property.
> Jukka: Set U+202B RIGHT-TO-LEFT EMBEDDING at the start of the title text and
> U+202C POP DIRECTIONAL FORMATTING at its end.


As you can see in a pic here, the title bar of window messes up with
that method as well.
http://arihoj.freehostia.com/arabic.html

The thing that annoys me is it seems like its very hard if not
impossible to edit foreign text in Dreamweaver. All the source code
text in Dreamweaver shows up incorrectly it seems going left to right
(even though the  content when viewed in browser shows up fine).
So seems like only way to get meanful editing done is to edit it in
Word doc (which has arabic/farsi support), and then i cut and paste
chunks of paragraphs i need into appropriate divs. Anyone figure out a
way to edit text typing from right to left in Dreamweaver itself, or
some other open-source way in case i have to send the .html document
to someone to edit?

Thanks, Ari
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Re: [css-d] Language switching

[Erik Visser]

Paul Novitski wrote:
>>> From: Paul Novitski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> Here's an example of one technique that I 
>>> produced using English & Japanese text:
>>> http://laurietobyedison.com/WOJwords.asp?lang=EN
>>>
>>> Every bilingual page on the site contains both 
>>> languages, with only one of them displayed at a time.
>>>
>>> In the absence of javascript, the 
>>> Japanese/English toggle requests the current 
>>> page from the server with the requested 
>>> language selected (by specifying it in the body class).
>>>
>>> With javascript enabled, the language toggle 
>>> simply switches the body class and the displayed language changes 
>>> immediately.
> 
> 
> At 3/5/2007 06:28 PM, Chris Chen wrote:
>> Could you elaborate a bit on what you mean by 
>> "switch body class" with a simple example?
> 
> 
> Hi Chris,
> 
> Here's one example of this technique.  Plug the 
> requested language into the body class:
> 
>  
> or
>  

so for every language you have a seperate html file?

Erik
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[css-d] Safari site check

[Arnold Jonathan E.]

I was wondering if some Safari users wouldn't mind checking out this
site, http://the1912gallery.ehc.edu/music/newsite.

>From the last browser shots I took it appeared the top navigation wasn't
aligning as intended. 

I want a straight line across the type, which happens in FF, Mozilla,
Opera, and Win IE 6/7. If it isn't, any ideas why not?

Thanks (in advance),

Jed Arnold
Web Manager
Emory & Henry College
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [css-d] containing floats

[Bradley Wright]

On 6 Mar 2007, at 11:40, Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:
> ron zisman wrote:
>> http://www.ricochet.org/adv_buyer/new_tue.html
>>
>> can't seem to get clear on how to contain floats.
>
>> a little insight would be appreciated
>
> The floating #wrapper will contain floats alright, but #container  
> can't
> float since it has to stay centered.
>
> #container {overflow: hidden;}
>
> ...and see if you're happy with the effect.

You may also want to consider adding the proprietary zoom:1; property  
to force hasLayout in IE, which makes it contain floats.


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Re: [css-d] containing floats

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

ron zisman wrote:
> http://www.ricochet.org/adv_buyer/new_tue.html
> 
> can't seem to get clear on how to contain floats.

> a little insight would be appreciated

The floating #wrapper will contain floats alright, but #container can't
float since it has to stay centered.

Add...

#container {overflow: hidden;}

...and see if you're happy with the effect.

regards
Georg
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [css-d] containing floats

[Paul Novitski]

At 3/6/2007 10:55 AM, ron zisman wrote:
>http://www.ricochet.org/adv_buyer/new_tue.html
>
>can't seem to get clear on how to contain floats.


One way to contain a floated element is to float its parent.

Paul 

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Re: [css-d] In-frame navigation with CSS

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Chris Chen wrote:
>> It's a simple website: http://www.formosagolfclub.com
>> 
>> Basically I don't want the user ever having to scroll the browser 
>> vertically, but only the content section itself. Looks like 
>>  is still the best way to do this. So  is 100% 
>> valid structural HTML and not deprecated at all by CSS, right?

Sounds like you want to replace a perfectly good browser-feature with
something that's doesn't work half as well, but that's not my problem.

> Hmm, based on the purpose of 's "rows" and "cols," it does 
> have some presentation element in it, but it's so tantalizingly handy
>  and simple. How is the effect of  achieved in CSS world?

For example...

...or something like...


regards
Georg
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [css-d] rtl languages - dir="rtl" not working for title tag... somehow should CSS be involved?

[L. David Baron]

On Tuesday 2007-03-06 02:36 -0500, Web Developer wrote:
> Both FF2 and IE7 goof on the title tag. although FF2 displays the
> title tag correctly in the 'tab' bar, but not in main browser address
> bar. Weird.

My "main browser address bar", I think you mean the title bar of the
window.  The text there is drawn by the operating environment, not
by the browser within it, so you're likely to see most browsers
(unless they put a lot of energy into working around system bugs)
behave the same on any given system.  However, you're likely to see
different behavior when you switch to a different version of the
operating system or a different operating system entirely.

Firefox 2 on Linux, running under GNOME on Fedora Core 6 looks like
it handles the bidirectional text in the title bar correctly.  It
visually looks like:

  Mozilla Firefox - 1299 ARABIC-SCRIPT-TEXT-HERE

But that's because Window title bars on GNOME are reordered and
shaped using pango, which does a pretty good job of things.

-David

-- 
L. David Baronhttp://dbaron.org/ >
   Technical Lead, Layout & CSS, Mozilla Corporation


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Re: [css-d] In-frame navigation with CSS

[Chris Chen]

>(1) what about the problem recommends  as a solution in the 
first

>place? (not a skeptical question here, just askin'...)  And (2), have you
>considered s?
>
>Do you have a demo we could look at?

It's a simple website: http://www.formosagolfclub.com

Basically I don't want the user ever having to scroll the browser
vertically, but only the content section itself. Looks like  is
still the best way to do this. So  is 100% valid structural HTML
and not deprecated at all by CSS, right?


Hmm, based on the purpose of 's "rows" and "cols," it does have 
some presentation element in it, but it's so tantalizingly handy and simple. 
How is the effect of  achieved in CSS world?


Thanks,
Chris

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[css-d] Site check and rollover issues

[Jones, Larry]

I am trying my first go at a completely tableless standards based design
and I think that overall it's worked out pretty good despite some of my
inexperience with this new way of thinking. Now I am struggling with my
hover background images on rollover disappearing when they are not
active in Internet Explorer and other weird things happening.  Could
someone take a look and let me know if there is a hack or workaround
that could address this or if I just didn't code it properly? The site
is: http://www.apachetrailtours.com. I would appreciate whatever help
anyone could provide me. This is a whole other world that I am trying to
get a grasp on and well I guess I don't have quite a good of grasp on
CSS as I thought I did.

Thanks
Larry Jones




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[css-d] containing floats

[ron zisman]

yo css-d'ers,

http://www.ricochet.org/adv_buyer/new_tue.html

can't seem to get clear on how to contain floats.

i've assigned heights to some elements so i could see what i was doing, 
they'll be removed as problems are resolved.

the wrapper has a background image and includes the light yellow, the 
only reason it can be seen is that it has a height assigned;
what can't be seen, is that the container (770px) isn't within the 
wrapper, and it appears both the content (green) and sidebar (blue) 
will also not be contained in the wrapper and i'm not sure about the 
container. newbie stuff. i remember the idea of float to fix a float, 
but it seems to have floated away over time.

a little insight would be appreciated


ron zisman
ricochet.org
845-735-3392

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Re: [css-d] In-frame navigation with CSS

[Chris Chen]

>(1) what about the problem recommends  as a solution in the first 
>place? (not a skeptical question here, just askin'...)  And (2), have you 
>considered s?
>
>Do you have a demo we could look at?

It's a simple website: http://www.formosagolfclub.com

Basically I don't want the user ever having to scroll the browser 
vertically, but only the content section itself. Looks like  is 
still the best way to do this. So  is 100% valid structural HTML 
and not deprecated at all by CSS, right?

Thanks,
Chris

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[css-d] Vertical BG, header 1px off half the time in IE.

[Axiom X11]

I am trying to do this simple page with a vertical background image,
and then place a header *exactly* in the middle of it.

See here:

http://tinyurl.com/2pk5aq

It works fine in firefox, but is sometime 1px to far left it IE (6 and 7).

It depends on the browser width. You may not see it at first, but if
you resize your window, you will see the header jump every other
pixel, and if you stop on an odd pixel, it will remain one pixel to
far left.

Is there a better way to achieve the effect I am after?
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Re: [css-d] Language switching

[Paul Novitski]

>>From: Paul Novitski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Here's an example of one technique that I 
>>produced using English & Japanese text:
>>http://laurietobyedison.com/WOJwords.asp?lang=EN
>>
>>Every bilingual page on the site contains both 
>>languages, with only one of them displayed at a time.
>>
>>In the absence of javascript, the 
>>Japanese/English toggle requests the current 
>>page from the server with the requested 
>>language selected (by specifying it in the body class).
>>
>>With javascript enabled, the language toggle 
>>simply switches the body class and the displayed language changes immediately.


At 3/5/2007 06:28 PM, Chris Chen wrote:
>Could you elaborate a bit on what you mean by 
>"switch body class" with a simple example?


Hi Chris,

Here's one example of this technique.  Plug the 
requested language into the body class:

 
or
 

then mark up language-specific strings in the page:

 This is English
 Esto es español


Then you can style:

 /* first hide all the language-specific paragraphs */
 p.langEN,
 p.langES
 {
 position: absolute;
 left: -1000em;
 }

 /* now show the current language */
 body.langEN p.langEN,
 body.langES p.langES
 {
 position: static;
 }

The body class can be changed either by a 
server-side script while the page is being 
constructed or by a client-side script while the page is being used.

In other situations, I use the body id & class to 
target styling rules to particular pages from within a global stylesheet:

 
or
 

then:

 /* highlight the nav menu item for the current page */
 body#index ul#nav li.index,
 body#about ul#nav li.about
 {
 color: #F00;
 }

Regards,

Paul
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Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com 

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Re: [css-d] In-frame navigation with CSS

[Mark Lundquist]

Hi Chris,

On Mar 6, 2007, at 12:35 AM, Chris Chen wrote:

> Is there a recommended way to do in-frame navigation with CSS 
> (replacement for )?

Navigation isn't a concern of CSS, which has to do with presentation.  
But you knew that already :-)... Questions I would have, given that you 
are looking for an alternative to : (1) what about the 
problem recommends  as a solution in the first place? (not a 
skeptical question here, just askin'...)  And (2), have you considered 
s?

Do you have a demo we could look at?

>  Currently I am implementing that by toggling s between "display: 
> block" and "display: none". Two annoying things are:
>
> (1) This looks like an ugly hack to me. Objection?

It sounds like probably it is an ugly hack :-)... but again, it would 
help to see a demo.

> (2) Ideally the menu list should be done with s that handle the 
> navigation automatically for me. However, in my case since I have to 
> manually toggle the display visibility of various s, there seems 
> to be no way but resorting to scripting to do that. This looks like 
> double-ugly to me, and kinda defeats the purpose of 's. Maybe this 
> is a legitimate case not to use s for menu list?

It probably isn't that.  Even if you do have to resort to some kind of 
monkey-business behind the scenes to get the behavior you need, that 
still does not change the semantics of a link, which is "clickable 
thing that loads content" (or appears to load content).  If you didn't 
use , it would have to be some other clickable thing: a form control 
or image map, which would probably make your document semantically more 
obscure.

cheers,
—ml—
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Re: [css-d] Fwd: Simple Rounded corners not rounding.. need help setting up javascript correctly.

[~davidLaakso]

Noah Learner wrote:
>
> The page concerned is at http://www.bartlettsfarm.com/new/inseason.html.
>
> I have validated the html and the javascript still doesn't work.  Any help
> would REALLY REALLY REALLY be great.
>
> Noah
>
>
>   
The markup is not valid on  the several pages I checked. Back-up the 
file(s). Run it (them) through Tidy Online . 
Tidy will point out the errors and correct most for you. Your pages take 
a very long time to load. Optimizing the images will help.
The emphasis of this list is the practical use of CSS. You'll find 
resources for javascript questions on the CSS-D wiki: 


Best,
~dL

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Re: [css-d] Wrapping Radio Buttons

[Spellacy, Michael]

> You're excluding the simplest and most logical approach, but as you
wish

I'm trying to prove a point at work that CSS can be used to handle most,
if not all layout possibilities without tables. My fellow developers
here still code like it's 1999. This is a very nice solution. Thank you.
I'll be keeping this one handy.

> Perhaps you have some width setting that should be relaxed or removed?

Unfortunately it is a tight layout so I don't have much leeway. I'm
actually glad I don't as this will further my point.

Thanks so much again!

Spell



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jukka K.
Korpela
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 2:34 AM
To: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Subject: Re: [css-d] Wrapping Radio Buttons

On Mon, 5 Mar 2007, Spellacy, Michael wrote:

> Does anyone out there know how to break label text so that it does not

> wrap underneath the radio button?
...
> I've been trying to "wrap" my head around it for hours with no luck. 
> The first person to say "add a break" or "use a table" is in big
trouble!
> :-)

You're excluding the simplest and most logical approach, but as you wish
- here is an approach based on semantically empty markup formatted in
CSS:


.table { display: table; }
.tr { display: table-row; }
.td { display: table-cell;
   vertical-align: top; }





   label text ...


Naturally, this does not result in the desired appearance on IE, which
does not support table-related values for the display property (but has
no problem with simple tables in HTML markup - hint, hint). Neither is
the appearance intolerable; the text just wraps underneath the button.

(As a rule of thumb, if radio button labels are in danger of being
wrapped, then they are probably too long or the layout is too tight. 
Perhaps you have some width setting that should be relaxed or removed?)

--
Jukka "Yucca" Korpela, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/

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Re: [css-d] turning off the text in a menu

[Jukka K. Korpela]

On Tue, 6 Mar 2007, Ross Hulford wrote:

> I have a top leve' menu Item that are buttons.

>From your sample code, I gather that they are links that have been 
formatted in CSS to look like buttons. (As usual, a URL would have 
helped.)

> I need to turn the text off but display:none hide the button too.
>
> Home  

I guess you are trying to prevent a link pointing to the page itself from 
looking like a link.

This is really something that you should not be doing in CSS. Instead, you 
should remove the  markup and check that the appearance remains good, 
or perhaps just remove the href attribute. That is, the link itself should 
be turned into a non-link. This may require some revision of the site 
construction and maintenance, but it's really the only _solution_. 
Otherwise, the link may keep looking like a link in non-CSS browsing 
situations and participate in tabbing order, be clickable, etc., resulting 
perhaps in more confusion that a simple link pointing to the page itself.

> Is it good practice to turn of the text like this
>
> #dmenu .home {
> font-size:0px;
> }

No. In addition to the general idea that the link shouldn't be there 
in the first place, the technique would fail in many occasions, including 
a setting for a minimum font size in a browser.

Technically, setting visibility: hidden would remove the text and leave a 
"hole", but it seems that you would like an empty button-like box to 
appear. Using extra markup inside the  element and setting visibility: 
hidden for the inner element would have the desired effect - but you could 
more easily achieve this by making the content of  empty.

-- 
Jukka "Yucca" Korpela, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
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Re: [css-d] Faux Columns not scaling to the bottom of page

[~davidLaakso]

Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:
>
>>> 
>
> [notes regarding methedology for100% tall scaling have been trimmed]
>
> Regarding those conditional commented spaces for IE6, does the above
> test-page satisfy the criteria in IE6 (and 5.x/win) - without any CC'ed
> spaces in the source-code..?
>
>
> regards
> Georg





Yes. As far as I can tell (in XP), the page behaves identically, and as 
intended, in IE7.0, IE6.0, IE5.5, and IE5.01.


Regards,

~d


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[css-d] A few odd buttons in IE in a shopping cart

[Rob Stevenson]

Hello,

The site is valid XHTML. 
And the CSS validates, (both stylesheets)...



The second stylesheet styles the buttons, though there may be  
lingering effects from the first one.

Click on any category, then any Add To Cart button to put something  
in the shopping cart. Click the Shopping Cart link at the top of any  
page to view the cart. The Continue Shopping and the Checkout buttons  
(below the products in the cart) should look just as all the other  
buttons, with a rollover effect. In most browsers, including IE 5.5,  
they do.

But in IE 6 and 7, they appear to be chopped off on their top and  
bottom edges. You can see the right and left edges of the buttons,  
and that the rollover is working, but the top and bottom edges seem  
to be covered up by something. Obviously I need some adjustment to  
make them appear right, but how can I target just those two buttons?

As well, the site breaks in IE earlier than 5.5, though I have no  
idea why. In 5.01 the Add To Cart buttons are not visible. (Again  
this odd specificity, where a bug affects just one kind of button!)  
The two chopped off cart buttons are fine in 5.01. In IE 5.2 Mac, the  
whole layout breaks, with parts going madly off in all directions.

I seem to have reached the point where the site works fine but just  
needs those last few make-IE-behave tricks. Any suggestions?

(I'm on digest mode, so there may be a bit of a lag in my responses.)

Rob

Rob Stevenson
Thistle Dance Publishing
Dartmouth NS Canada
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Re: [css-d] Faux Columns not scaling to the bottom of page

[Jon Hughes]

PS I hope the original author will set a background-color. I am getting 
tired of getting slammed with a face full of fuchsia every time I open 
his page in my version of Opera :-P .

---

Should be done now :)

Thank you all for being so helpful.  This list is so fantastic :)

- Jon

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Re: [css-d] turning off the text in a menu

[Barney Carroll]

I've tried implementing 'honest' tricks of obscured and 
shrinked-to-invisibility text (like yours) for such things, and as far 
as I've found they're completely unreliable. Most devices have a minimum 
text size option, and on many this is turned on by default - for 
example, Opera and Safari will keep the text visible and legible, and IE 
doesn't understand 0 for this property, and will ignore it (the smallest 
you can get text in IE is 1px, which looks absolutely bizarre).

For all such instances I would now recommend the generic screen 
reader-friendly option of wrapping the text in question in a span, and 
making that span {position:absolute;left:-9px;}.

By separating the text into the span, you no longer need to apply 
anything to the images.


Regards,
Barney
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[css-d] turning off the text in a menu

[Ross Hulford]

I have a top leve' menu Item that are buttons. I need to turn the text off but 
display:none hide the button too.

 Home  

Is it good practice to turn of the text like this

#dmenu .home {
font-size:0px;
}

It seems wrong. Is there an alternative way to turn just he text off?


R.
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Re: [css-d] safari check/ Background position issues

[Ingo Chao]

David Sharp wrote:
> Hi Listers,
> 
> The site www.syntony.org/2007/diary.html
> 
> Don't have access to a mac, so am using snugtech to get screenshots, but 
> it seems to chop most of my page off at the higher screen widths. I'm 
> hoping this is a problem with the screenshot, and not with my site.

Sorry, no.

> 
> Also on this particular page (concert diary) the background image on 
> each div (the alchemical symbols) are positioned so that the colour 
> version (which is underneath in the image) shouldn't show. It seems to 
> on some but not others. Wierd - tell me what I have missed.
> 
> Finally, on the links to the left, in the safari screenshots only, again 
> a small band of colour can be seen at the bottom of the symbol in the 
> unhovered state. This is not the case in FF (windows) and IE 6 & 7. Can 
> anyone shed any light on this?

Both issues are due to the same Safari bug. If a background-image is 
bigger than its box, it starts repeating, no matter what is said on 
background-repeat.

As if the following was set:
div.concert,
#series_nav ul li a {
   background-repeat: repeat-y
   }

The bug is fixed in Webkit nightly build; some consolation that is.

I don't have a fix at hand, but I hope someone else finds a workaround.

Ingo

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Re: [css-d] safari check/ Background position issues

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

David Sharp wrote:
> www.syntony.org/2007/diary.html

The problems you noticed in Safari are real - same in my Safari 2.0.4.

I noticed a couple of other problems across browser-land, so here's a
reworked styleset for navigation and a couple of additions to go with it.

--

/* corrected nav styles */
#series_nav ul li a {
text-transform : uppercase;
color : #333;
font-size : 2.2em;
text-decoration : none;
height : auto /* corrected to sort out font-resizing issue */;
min-height : 50px /* added to sort out font-resizing issue */;
line-height : 50px;
padding-left : 60px;
border : 1px solid #fff;
background-position : 0 -50px /* corrected for Safari */;
background-repeat : no-repeat;
display : inline-block /* adding 'hasLayout' for IE6 */;
}

/* addition to turn off effect of 'hasLayout' for non-IE browsers */
div#series_nav ul li a {
display: block;
}

/* addition to fix Safari */
.concert.earth, .concert.air, .concert.fire, .concert.water, .concert.gold {
padding-bottom: 1px;
}

--

- Top link in nav couldn't expand with font resizing, thus looked really
bad in my Firefox, Opera and Safari.
- IE6 didn't react on :hover on entire nav links, so it needed that
'hasLayout' trigger - which I then had to counteract for better browsers.
- background-position wasn't correct with that image in an element with
that height, so a bit of the colored version showed. I corrected that.
- Don't know why Safari displayed those colored versions in the "Concert
Dates", but the addition of a padding-bottom made it work properly.
Don't know why that fix worked either :-)

Couldn't see any other problems. Safari, Opera and Firefox present the
page pretty identical with fixes in place.

regards
Georg
-- 
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[css-d] multiselect dropdown - mouse hover

[Aiswarya K]

I have a multiselect dropdown in JSP/HTML.
How can i add a mouse hover information...over those dropdown values..using
CSS or AJAX or JS etc?


Thanks!
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[css-d] safari check/ Background position issues

[David Sharp]

Hi Listers,

The site www.syntony.org/2007/diary.html

Don't have access to a mac, so am using snugtech to get screenshots, but 
it seems to chop most of my page off at the higher screen widths. I'm 
hoping this is a problem with the screenshot, and not with my site.

Also on this particular page (concert diary) the background image on 
each div (the alchemical symbols) are positioned so that the colour 
version (which is underneath in the image) shouldn't show. It seems to 
on some but not others. Wierd - tell me what I have missed.

Finally, on the links to the left, in the safari screenshots only, again 
a small band of colour can be seen at the bottom of the symbol in the 
unhovered state. This is not the case in FF (windows) and IE 6 & 7. Can 
anyone shed any light on this?

Thanks a lot.

David
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Re: [css-d] media=print/css problems with IE7 - fixed

[Bruce MacKay]

The solution to this problem was the removal of

width: auto;

from the css

#wrap,#content {
width: auto;
margin: 0 5%;
padding: 0;
border: 0;
float: none !important;
color: black;
background: transparent none;
font-family:"Times New Roman",Times,serif;
}

I'm afraid this solution was reached empirically  - I can offer no 
insight into why the solution works.

Cheers,

Bruce

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Re: [css-d] Faux Columns not scaling to the bottom of page

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

~davidLaakso wrote:
> Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:

>> 

> Georg, your example gets both the IE7.0 and Opera seal of approval. 
> It is the original authors page that Opera was unhappy with.

I know :-)

> Whatever became of  Jon Hughes, anyway?

Dunno. Lots of space around here...

Regarding those conditional commented spaces for IE6, does the above
test-page satisfy the criteria in IE6 (and 5.x/win) - without any CC'ed
spaces in the source-code..?

-

*Important* points for anyone who happens to read this thread in search
for 100% tall scaling / expanding / stretching / overflowing /
whatever-they-call-it solutions...

1: Get the specificity right.

a: make it work in the good browsers (Firefox, Opera, Safari, etc.).

b: corrections for IE6 and IE7 must be able to override the relevant
properties from the original "good browsers" rules. This is normally
achieved by adding such corrections _after_ the original rule in our
stylesheet - using the same specificity, but can of course also be
achieved by adding specificity to the selector(s) for the corrections.

- The original page had the corrections for IE/win placed _before_ the
"good browser" rules, and they had the same specificity. Thus, the
corrections for IE/win could not take effect, regardless of how many
were added.


2: 100% height will _only_ work if _all_ parents have a height that the
height of their children can be calculated from - all the way up to the
browser-window. One missing and its children fail - in all browsers.

- The original page didn't have height declared on the html-element.
Subsequently, all children of html failed to expand to 100% height, no
matter how many rules and "tricks" were added to elements further in.

--

Now, I still wonder how IE7 could get it right, since 'min-height: 100%'
on a parent doesn't work as calculation-base in any other browser.
Nevertheless, that's what I served IE7 as a correction for its lack of
support for 'display: table', and you are telling me that it works..?

Now I'm a bit confused, not knowing whether this is a genuine IE7
bug/feature, or if I have simply overlooked something.
Anyone got an explanation and/or a test-case?

regards
Georg
-- 
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Re: [css-d] rtl languages - dir="rtl" not working for title tag... somehow should CSS be involved?

[Jukka K. Korpela]

On Tue, 6 Mar 2007, Web Developer wrote:

> Seems like the content I want to use for right to left language isnt
> working in the title tag.

The problem is difficult to analyze, and it was particularly difficult at 
first to me, since by email program displayed the Arabic letters as 
spaces, so the problem looked very different (or nonexistent).

When non-ASCII characters are involved, it's generally best to post the 
URL of a demo page, rather than a copy of its content, even if it is very 
short.

> Both FF2 and IE7 goof on the title tag. although FF2 displays the
> title tag correctly in the 'tab' bar, but not in main browser address
> bar. Weird.

The way I see it, the situation is this: You have a string of Arabic 
letters, interspersed with spaces, and followed by a number in common 
("Arabic-Indic") digits, "1299". By Unicode rules, it is to be rendered so 
that the Arabic letters run from right to left, and the string "1299" 
appears on the left of them, with digits running from left to right. This 
is based on the inherent directionality of characters, as defined in the 
Unicode character database. Both IE 7 and Firefox 2 (and probably many 
earlier versions as well) implement this correctly, even in the absence of 
the dir attribute. (That attribute sets the direction of directionally 
neutral text, but here we deal with characters with strong directionality 
and spaces between them.) However, people who have encountered browser 
bugs in some situations recommend that the dir attribute be used anyway, 
even when it is redundant.

The problem you are described seems to be a problem of _truncation_. I'm 
puzzled, though, since what I see is correct rendering in the top bar of 
the browser window (the bar where you see the document's title and the 
name of the browser), whereas the truncated title text in a tab bar or in 
the browser window icon at the bottom of screen (when the window is 
minimized) is wrong in the sense that the ellipsis symbol "..." is on the
left, but it should be on the right (since the text runs from right to 
left and is truncated on the left. This also happens for the top bar, if I 
make the browser window narrow enough.

It seems that the position of the ellipsis can be fixed using
U+202B RIGHT-TO-LEFT EMBEDDING at the start of the title text and
U+202C POP DIRECTIONAL FORMATTING at its end.
‪The title proper‬

In theory, you could do the same in CSS by saying

title { unicode-bidi: embed; direction: rtl; }

but I wasn't surprised at all when I saw that it doesn't work. The title 
element's content is really a plain text string to be displayed outside 
the context of HTML and thus independently of CSS rules. Well, that's what 
browsers do; they could do otherwise.

> The Year "1299" should be last thing u see on left hand side.

Truncation normally means omitting characters from the _end_ of a string.
So I'm puzzled. The truncation, when applied, is under the control of the 
browser, of course, and I think some browsers use "middle truncation" 
(showing the start and the end and "..." between them) in some contexts. 
But there's nothing we can do about that in CSS.

> Sorry if this
> question is a bit off-topic as i am pretty sure its a html question
> and not css (unless u guys prefer to use css's direction/bidi-override
> properties which I heard are not too good).

In principle, it's quite on-topic, since the directionality of text on web 
pages can be affected in three ways:
- HTML markup (dir attribute and  tag)
- CSS rules (direction and unicode-bidi properties)
- character level (Unicode control characters for directionality,
   such as U+202B and U+202C).

In practice, the relevant CSS rules work well on reasonably new browsers
for document content, though it is debatable whether such things should be 
handled at the presentational level and not in HTML (or character level). 
However, title element rendering takes place outside any normal rendering 
rules, so it's immune to CSS (and HTML markup, since no tags are allowed 
in  element content)

-- 
Jukka "Yucca" Korpela, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
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[css-d] In-frame navigation with CSS

[Chris Chen]

Hi,

Is there a recommended way to do in-frame navigation with CSS (replacement 
for )? Currently I am implementing that by toggling s between 
"display: block" and "display: none". Two annoying things are:


(1) This looks like an ugly hack to me. Objection?
(2) Ideally the menu list should be done with s that handle the 
navigation automatically for me. However, in my case since I have to 
manually toggle the display visibility of various s, there seems to be 
no way but resorting to scripting to do that. This looks like double-ugly to 
me, and kinda defeats the purpose of 's. Maybe this is a legitimate case 
not to use s for menu list?


Please share your thoughts on the points above.

Thanks,
Chris

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