Re: [css-d] Navigation bar

2008-04-12 Thread Bill Brown
[snip]
 I am looking for a slightly more 'elegant' way of vertically
 centering text depending on whether there are one or two lines.
[snip]
 I've also just noticed a problem in all browsers except IE7. What I
 want to happen is for the currently selected item to show a different
 background and to change text color, as in [ #navbar a:active ]
 (below) and for this state to remain until another selection is made.
 IE7 does what I want, but other browsers are inconsistent. Some will
 show the correct state whilst the mouse button is down and it's
 possible in at least one other to select an item and drag the pointer
 away from the item whilst holding the button down and the active
 state will remain. It's late at night and I've probably missed
 something obvious!!
[snip]
 /* Set background for current item */ #navbar a:active { 
 background-image:url(../images/buttons/navactive1x30.gif); 
 background-repeat:repeat; color:white; }
[snip]

Hi Alan.

I think other browsers are either shifting the focus or not recognizing 
the :active state on your link. Try adding the :focus state into that 
rule as well, like this:

/* Set background for current item */
#navbar a:active,
#navbar a:focus{
   background-image:  url(../images/buttons/navactive1x30.gif);
   background-repeat: repeat;
   color: white;}

It's difficult to fully test that on my local machine because of the 
frames (as you mentioned), but I think that should at least get you 
closer to a solution.

In terms of vertical centering, one solution is just to use padding and 
not rely on pre-determined heights for the links. This also creates an 
accessibility issue (overlapping the text when people [like me] have the 
font size set too high for your site's setup).

If you create a background image which fades to a specific color, you 
can just set the background of the link to that color, center the fade 
gif/png/jpg and let any overflow in odd situations show up as a solid color.

Here's a basic ascii'd example:

solid white link background peaking through
white-blue-white vertical fade [one or two lines here]
solid white link background peaking through again

Throw a little padding in there, use a best guess measurement and 
it'll look great on 80% of browsers, be accessible on all browsers, and 
still look decent on the remaining 20% browsers with configurations 
which differ from your local system.

Let me know how it all works out for ya.

Bill Brown
TheHolierGrail.com
MacNimble.com


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Re: [css-d] Special how-to request

2008-04-12 Thread Alan Gresley
Keith Kaiser wrote:
 On Apr 11, 2008, at 3:42 PM, David Laakso wrote:

 Add this to your rt.css style sheet to position the alert (changing  
 it from the locked inline absolute positioning it had, to a float  
 called from the CSS makes it easier to position and maintain).
 Overflow:hidden combined with the height:1.5em; is what keeps it  
 from being totally goofy in IE/6 (and does not adversely effect IE/7  
 or compliant browsers...

 #amberalert{
 float:left; clear:both; margin-left:40px; overflow:hidden; height: 
 1.5em;}


 I'll let you, The Boy Scouts of America, and the Web decide what to  
 do about the proprietary code preventing your markup from validating.

 hth.
 
 O! That's not looking too bad now.
 What proprietary code is that?


Keith please note that I have snip the larger part of this thread. you 
the [snip] and reply to the relevant parts. You site is now off-line so 
I would not know what David has already helped you with.

Browser reports on what I did see.

Firefox 2 and IE7 and Safari 3: The marquee covers the search button. A 
marquee is proprietary code. I don't know what other proprietary code 
was there.

Opera. Hovering the dropdowns menus causes the whole content to drop out 
of view.

IE8: A disaster. Broken pieces here and there. I would say this is since 
  you have this.

!--[if IE]
style type=text/css media=screen
  #topMenu ul li {float: left; width: 100%;}
  #topMenu {height:5em;}
/style
![endif]--

This [if IE] statements will apply the style rules within to every 
version of Internet Explorer. Very dangerous.

IE6: The multi marquee is covering the content on the right.

IE5.5: The multi marquee is covering the menu on the left.

The page breaks in every browser when you bump up the text size. I 
wouldn't know which browser the page was tested in but adding a Doctype 
would have stopped the page being in quirks mode. Even IE8 in quirks 
mode appears the same as IE5.5.

As a whole the layout is reasonable and things can be fixed but first 
all the mis-targeted [if IE] must go (David has helped you here), 
marquee removed, and javascript removed that is not require for the 
search button.

The top menu has 213 links (I think). Some of these links you have to 
use the mouse scroll wheel while hovering the menu to access the links. 
Being at the top I would expect this menu to be the main menu of the 
site but you have many external links which should be listed in 
un-styled list on there own individual pages. The site navigation seems 
to be on the left. Moving on to another page I am presented with this 
massive confusing navigation again.

Apart from the browser issues this site is in essence un-accessible. You 
would only have a minority of users who would ever browse the site. Most 
users would leave straight away.

Some question that could help us help you (***snip above***).

1. Do you have access to the server?
2. Is the server Apache or Windows?
3. How many pages does this domain actuality have?
4. Would you like users who are not into scouting wanting to browse the 
site out of interest?

When replying to my question, remove very thing above the words (***snip 
above***). Also please keep the site life so others can help. I can't 
help at this point on the code since it's off-line.

Alan

http://css-class.com/test/
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Re: [css-d] Navigation bar

2008-04-12 Thread Alan Gresley
Alan K Baker wrote:
 Hi all.
 
 I'm in the process of converting an old frames/tables/JavaScript site to all 
 CSS.


There many billions of pages needing the same treatment. Please take a 
look at this screen shot.

http://css-class.com/test/images/email-client.png

The forth line down run 5 times a wide as my screen. For me to reply to 
you I first have to edit you message but not the simple way. My email 
client will wrap my replies at 72 characters length automatically. 
Discussion about Email clients are off-topic on this list but since your 
messages are very hard to reply to I have to mentioned them. Here is a 
good one to use.

http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/thunderbird/


 It can be found at: http://www.webbwize.co.uk/Test_Area/TEP/index.html
 
 I am looking for a slightly more 'elegant' way of vertically centering text


Is this the fixed navigation where the lower parts are hidden outside 
the viewpoint. My screen is on 800px high. Is this navigation within frames?


 [snip] to save you wading through the dreaded frames maze.


Remove the frames as it make it near impossible for anyone to help.


 At present my text is centered by [ .oneline a ] and [ .twolines a ].


OK, where do you mention that .oneline and .towlines is part of the 
navigation. Some on this list are good detectives since. We have to use 
our web developers toolbar [1] outline current element feature to 
locate these classes.


 I've also just noticed a problem in all browsers except IE7.


That make sense. :-)


  I've probably missed something obvious!!


Yes. When I check you source code all I see is.

frameset
frame
frame
base
/frameset

noframes
If you are reading this text, your browser is frames challenged.
More up to date browsers are readily available.
/noframes


The good browsers are not framed challenged. They just don't use MS 
propriety garbage code.


 Help would be much appreciated.
 
 Regards, 
  
 Alan.
  
 www.theatreorgans.co.uk


So you have to make it easy. :-)

Sometimes it is easier just to have un-style text to begin with.


[1] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/60


Alan

http://css-class.com/


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Re: [css-d] Navigation bar

2008-04-12 Thread Andrew Doades
Hello all...

I could not help picking up o a bit about IE7, I recently attempted a 
sidebar for my website, and all now works (to some extent) but for IE7.

I was just wondering what is with IE7, IE6 used to be fine, it always 
worked, same with FF but why is 7 casing so many problems?

Andrew

Alan Gresley wrote:
 Alan K Baker wrote:
   
 Hi all.

 I'm in the process of converting an old frames/tables/JavaScript site to all 
 CSS.
 


 There many billions of pages needing the same treatment. Please take a 
 look at this screen shot.

 http://css-class.com/test/images/email-client.png

 The forth line down run 5 times a wide as my screen. For me to reply to 
 you I first have to edit you message but not the simple way. My email 
 client will wrap my replies at 72 characters length automatically. 
 Discussion about Email clients are off-topic on this list but since your 
 messages are very hard to reply to I have to mentioned them. Here is a 
 good one to use.

 http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/thunderbird/


   
 It can be found at: http://www.webbwize.co.uk/Test_Area/TEP/index.html

 I am looking for a slightly more 'elegant' way of vertically centering text
 


 Is this the fixed navigation where the lower parts are hidden outside 
 the viewpoint. My screen is on 800px high. Is this navigation within frames?


   
 [snip] to save you wading through the dreaded frames maze.
 


 Remove the frames as it make it near impossible for anyone to help.


   
 At present my text is centered by [ .oneline a ] and [ .twolines a ].
 


 OK, where do you mention that .oneline and .towlines is part of the 
 navigation. Some on this list are good detectives since. We have to use 
 our web developers toolbar [1] outline current element feature to 
 locate these classes.


   
 I've also just noticed a problem in all browsers except IE7.
 


 That make sense. :-)


   I've probably missed something obvious!!


 Yes. When I check you source code all I see is.

 frameset
   frame
   frame
 base
 /frameset

 noframes
 If you are reading this text, your browser is frames challenged.
 More up to date browsers are readily available.
 /noframes


 The good browsers are not framed challenged. They just don't use MS 
 propriety garbage code.


   
 Help would be much appreciated.

 Regards, 
  
 Alan.
  
 www.theatreorgans.co.uk
 


 So you have to make it easy. :-)

 Sometimes it is easier just to have un-style text to begin with.


 [1] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/60


 Alan

 http://css-class.com/


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Re: [css-d] Special how-to request

2008-04-12 Thread David Laakso
Alan Gresley wrote:

 Browser reports on what I did see...trimmed]

   



Re: http://bsaroundtable.com/
Clear the cache.
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Re: [css-d] Navigation bar

2008-04-12 Thread Alan K Baker
Andrew.

In the case of my [ :active ] problem, I believe that none of the browsers is 
actually at fault, and IE7 does actually do what I want and behaves in a way 
I'd logically expect, which is probably quite unusual for IE7. :-)
It's simply a minor discrepancy in implementation between browsers - no big 
deal.

I have far more problems with IE6 than all the other browsers! IE7 is a pussy 
cat, compared to IE6. g

In the case of my vertical spacing on text, this is just my wish to improve my 
code. It's not a browser fault at all.

Regards, 
 
Alan.
 
www.theatreorgans.co.uk
www.virtualtheatreorgans.com
Admin: ConnArtistes, UKShopsmiths, 2nd Touch  A-P groups
Shopsmith 520 + bits
Flatulus Antiquitus


  - Original Message - 
  From: Andrew Doades 
  To: Alan Gresley 
  Cc: Alan K Baker ; css-d 
  Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 11:48 AM
  Subject: Re: [css-d] Navigation bar


  Hello all...

  I could not help picking up on a bit about IE7, I recently attempted a 
  sidebar for my website, and all now works (to some extent) but for IE7.

  I was just wondering what is with IE7, IE6 used to be fine, it always 
  worked, same with FF but why is 7 casing so many problems?

  Andrew

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Re: [css-d] Navigation bar

2008-04-12 Thread Andrew Doades
I do see what you are saying, but since I went to IE7 I have had no end 
of problem why trying to develop, also a pain was moving to IE7 from IE6 
when developing :)

But why do IE and FF seem to have a constant fighting battle for developers?
This is what I can't get, I can develop something that looks grate in FF 
but  in IE, or vice versa.

But some good points in your email :)

Andrew

Alan K Baker wrote:
 Andrew.

 In the case of my [ :active ] problem, I believe that none of the browsers is 
 actually at fault, and IE7 does actually do what I want and behaves in a way 
 I'd logically expect, which is probably quite unusual for IE7. :-)
 It's simply a minor discrepancy in implementation between browsers - no big 
 deal.

 I have far more problems with IE6 than all the other browsers! IE7 is a pussy 
 cat, compared to IE6. g

 In the case of my vertical spacing on text, this is just my wish to improve 
 my code. It's not a browser fault at all.

 Regards, 
  
 Alan.
  
 www.theatreorgans.co.uk
 www.virtualtheatreorgans.com
 Admin: ConnArtistes, UKShopsmiths, 2nd Touch  A-P groups
 Shopsmith 520 + bits
 Flatulus Antiquitus


   - Original Message - 
   From: Andrew Doades 
   To: Alan Gresley 
   Cc: Alan K Baker ; css-d 
   Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 11:48 AM
   Subject: Re: [css-d] Navigation bar


   Hello all...

   I could not help picking up on a bit about IE7, I recently attempted a 
   sidebar for my website, and all now works (to some extent) but for IE7.

   I was just wondering what is with IE7, IE6 used to be fine, it always 
   worked, same with FF but why is 7 casing so many problems?

   Andrew

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Re: [css-d] Navigation bar

2008-04-12 Thread Alan K Baker
Alan.

As there are a few issues here and interaction will be improved (IMO) I am 
replying to your message, by interspersing my replies within yours.

Regards, 
 
Alan.
 
www.theatreorgans.co.uk
www.virtualtheatreorgans.com
Admin: ConnArtistes, UKShopsmiths, 2nd Touch  A-P groups
Shopsmith 520 + bits
Flatulus Antiquitus


- Original Message - 
From: Alan Gresley 
To: Alan K Baker 
Cc: css-d 
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: [css-d] Navigation bar

 There many billions of pages needing the same treatment. Please take a look 
 at this screen shot.

Answered privately.

 Is this the fixed navigation where the lower parts are hidden outside the 
 viewpoint. My screen is on 800px high. Is this navigation within frames?

No, it's apparent on any button that's clicked. They all behave in the same way.

 Remove the frames as it make it near impossible for anyone to help.

The frames will be removed, but the site is presented 'as-is' to allow you guys 
to see the problem, not for you to attempt to retrieve code from it. That's why 
I posted the relevant code in my message.

 OK, where do you mention that .oneline and .twolines is part of the 
 navigation. Some on this list are good detectives since. We have to use our 
 web developers toolbar [1] outline current element feature to locate these 
 classes.

It's mentioned in the line I've included the appropriate part of the 
stylesheet and the HTML below, to save you wading through the dreaded frames 
maze. At present my text is centered by [ .oneline a ] and [ .twolines a ] 
(below)., which you've edited out. :-)

  I've probably missed something obvious!!

 Yes. When I check you source code all I see is.

   frameset
   frame
   frame
   base
   /frameset

   noframes

   If you are reading this text, your browser is frames challenged.
 More up to date browsers are readily available.
   /noframes

 The good browsers are not framed challenged. They just don't use MS propriety 
 garbage code.

'Fraid I disagree. Frames have been around for a long time, along with all 
their faults. None of today's reasonably up-to-date browsers has a problem with 
the site as it is/was.
M$ proprietary code is here to stay and the greater majority of browser 
public are using it, unfortunately for us, especially in the case of browsers 
below IE7, which itself is far from perfect.
Not to labor a point, as we're getting off topic, but the frames will be 
removed soon and the problem will cease to exist. :-)

 So you have to make it easy. :-)

 Sometimes it is easier just to have un-style text to begin with.

The only way I could make it any easier (as you say) is to remove the frames, 
but really this is totally unnecessary. I've already posted the relevant code 
in my message, for inspection. There's nothing 'hidden' on the live site that 
would affect it. I dumped the site to a test area, merely as an illustration 
for this forum, so that the effects can be seen.

Hell, being a USA originated forum, I even spelled my message in 'American' and 
ignored the protests of my UK spell-checker. grin
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Re: [css-d] what is with IE7 (was Navigation bar)

2008-04-12 Thread Alan Gresley
Andrew Doades wrote:
 Hello all...
 
 I could not help picking up o a bit about IE7, I recently attempted a 
 sidebar for my website, and all now works (to some extent) but for IE7.
 
 I was just wondering what is with IE7, IE6 used to be fine, it always 
 worked, same with FF but why is 7 casing so many problems?
 
 Andrew


You top posted there Andrew. :-)


IE7 in many case will render a page similar to the good browsers but it 
is not a CSS2.1 or even CSS1 stand compliant browser. You could say that 
IE7 is the piggy in the middle. IE6 and earlier on the left and IE8 on 
the right. What MS is doing with IE8 should have happen with IE7. 
Depending on what the code is like, IE6 will show a total disaster or 
show sort of pretty.


Alan

http://css-class.com/
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Re: [css-d] code inside pre results in smaller computed font-size in FF

2008-04-12 Thread Alan Gresley
Pentasis wrote:
 Can anyone tell me why this happens?
 
 The HTML looks like this:
 
 body
 precodesome text/code/pre
 /body
 
 If the CSS is like:
 
 body {
 font-size: 0.875em; /* computes to 14px */
 line-height: 1.5em;
 }
 
 pre {
 font-family: Consolas, Courier New, Courier, monospace;
 white-space: pre;
 white-space: -moz-pre-wrap;
 white-space: -o-pre-wrap;
 white-space: pre-wrap;
 margin: 3em 1.5em;
 padding: 0em 1.5em;
 }
 
 code {
 font-family: Consolas, Courier New, Courier, monospace;
 }
 
 Everything is fine and it looks the same in IE, FF, Safari and Opera.
 
 However,  when I remove the font-family from the pre selector, Firefox 
 reduces the font size to a computed value of 11.4px


I would presume that it how Gecko shows the height of the glyphs in the 
code element by default. This is what Mozilla developers have.

The HTML Code Element produces an inline element displayed in the 
browser's default monotype font (Lucida Console).

These links will help.

http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/HTML:Element:code
http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Category:HTML:Element_Reference


Alan

http://css-class.com/

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Re: [css-d] Centering image h/v in *smaller* div

2008-04-12 Thread Martin Sammtleben
At 16:40 -0500 11/4/08, Benjamin White wrote:
1.) Could you not just render these particular links as block
elements, either by floating them or explicitly declaring display:
block and then setting the background to whatever image you need?
Ideally you would then use the alternate text as the link text and
hide it from traditional browsers in some way.

Good idea!

Anyway, thanks to everyone for your input - I'll figure something out.


BestMartin
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Re: [css-d] code inside pre results in smaller computed font-size in FF

2008-04-12 Thread Benjamin White
On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 8:46 AM, Pentasis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Can anyone tell me why this happens?

  The HTML looks like this:

  body
 precodesome text/code/pre
  /body

  If the CSS is like:

  body {
 font-size: 0.875em; /* computes to 14px */
 line-height: 1.5em;
  }


Hah! I was dealing with precisely this problem a little while ago in
my as yet unfinished site redesign. I've been collecting notes to
write a post about it as soon as I get the redesign up (it won't make
any sense until then). I'm even using the same math as you.

Here's the trick: both the code and pre elements are rendered by
Firefox as monospace if you do not set a font-family. Since the
default setting is to display monospaced fonts at 13px instead of 16px
you end up with a font that is reduced from 13px (13px x 0.875 =
11.4px).

What I ended up doing was adding font-family: inherit to my pre
styles. I guess it works if you define an actual font too.
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Re: [css-d] code inside pre results in smaller computed font-size in FF

2008-04-12 Thread Felix Miata
On 2008/04/12 16:46 (GMT+0300) Pentasis apparently typed:

 Everything is fine and it looks the same in IE, FF, Safari and Opera.

 However,  when I remove the font-family from the pre selector, Firefox 
 reduces the font size to a computed value of 11.4px

NAICT, Opera  IE match each other, but both Gecko and Webkit do their own
things:

http://fm.no-ip.com/auth/tmp/pentasis.html
http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/Fnt/pentasis-pre-code1.jpg

I have all 4 of those browsers set entirely to defaults, except for replacing
all instances of Courier* with DejaVu Sans Mono.

FWIW, in case you haven't noticed, Consolas tends to render narrower than
other monospace fonts, while most monospace fonts match in width at most
sizes. Whether it does or not depends on the particular font compared to,
DPI, the size being compared, and possibly the rendering engine of the OS.
http://fm.no-ip.com/auth/Font/fonts-face-samplesM.html
http://fm.no-ip.com/auth/Font/fontm-consolas.html
http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/Fnt/fonts-compvista-consolasXP.png
-- 
Either the constitution controls the judges, or the
judges rewrite the constitution. Judge Robert Bork

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
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[css-d] Building a completely CSS, UL based, dropdown menu

2008-04-12 Thread Chris Case
Hey Everyone,

I've been building a drop-down menu system for a client.  So-far the menu is
getting close to acceptable in Firefox 2.0 and Safari, but it looks horrible
in IE6.

Does anyone have any tips off-hand for making things work a little more
smoothly in IE6?

*You can see the dev version of the site here if you're interested:*
http://www.openmindspace.org/cwda/

*Style-sheet is here:*
http://www.openmindspace.org/cwda/style.css

Thanks,
Chris
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Re: [css-d] when are 2 external css called for?

2008-04-12 Thread tedd
At 9:53 PM -0400 4/11/08, Kepler Gelotte wrote:
   I get the idea of different names of styles, but the actual 
  implementation I'm not so sure of how to do.

Hi John,

I created two example test pages (home.html, about.html) to illustrate the
technique:

http://www.neighborwebmaster.com/tests/home.html

Kepler:

Nice demo.

Cheers,

tedd

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[css-d] mystery gap in Firefox

2008-04-12 Thread Andrew Gaffney
I'm working on some fixups for a site originally done by somebody else. In IE, 
the submenus were appearing off to the right, so I wrapped them in another DIV 
with position: relative and set 'left: 0; top: 40px' (40 being the height of 
the 
image that the submenu appears from) on the submenu. This works great in IE.

However, it's now acting weird in both FF2 and FF3. The submenu is offset 
vertically ~30px from the bottom of the image, and I can't figure out what's 
going on here. Thanks for any help.

URL: http://www.ctstlouis.com/index.php
Stylesheet: http://www.ctstlouis.com/ctstlouis.css

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agaffney.org
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Re: [css-d] mystery gap in Firefox

2008-04-12 Thread Philippe Wittenbergh

On Apr 13, 2008, at 10:35 AM, Andrew Gaffney wrote:
 I'm working on some fixups for a site originally done by somebody  
 else. In IE,
 the submenus were appearing off to the right, so I wrapped them in  
 another DIV
 with position: relative and set 'left: 0; top: 40px' (40 being the  
 height of the
 image that the submenu appears from) on the submenu. This works  
 great in IE.

 However, it's now acting weird in both FF2 and FF3. The submenu is  
 offset
 vertically ~30px from the bottom of the image, and I can't figure  
 out what's
 going on here. Thanks for any help.

 URL: http://www.ctstlouis.com/index.php
 Stylesheet: http://www.ctstlouis.com/ctstlouis.css


And in Safari, and in Opera, you get the same as with Gecko.

Why do you set the div.menucontainer to display:inline ? Setting it to  
display:block would solve your positioning problem in those browsers.

The image doesn't affect the height of a (parent) inline element as  
you seem to expect.

Philippe
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Re: [css-d] mystery gap in Firefox

2008-04-12 Thread Andrew Gaffney
Philippe Wittenbergh wrote:
 On Apr 13, 2008, at 10:35 AM, Andrew Gaffney wrote:
 I'm working on some fixups for a site originally done by somebody  
 else. In IE,
 the submenus were appearing off to the right, so I wrapped them in  
 another DIV
 with position: relative and set 'left: 0; top: 40px' (40 being the  
 height of the
 image that the submenu appears from) on the submenu. This works  
 great in IE.

 However, it's now acting weird in both FF2 and FF3. The submenu is  
 offset
 vertically ~30px from the bottom of the image, and I can't figure  
 out what's
 going on here. Thanks for any help.

 URL: http://www.ctstlouis.com/index.php
 Stylesheet: http://www.ctstlouis.com/ctstlouis.css
 
 And in Safari, and in Opera, you get the same as with Gecko.

Actually, I was seeing the IE7 behavior in Opera 9.50 beta in linux.

 Why do you set the div.menucontainer to display:inline ? Setting it to  
 display:block would solve your positioning problem in those browsers.

I can't seem to remember why I put that in. I recall it being an attempt to fix 
some other quirk I was seeing, but I don't remember what. Removing the 
display:inline does indeed fix it. Thanks.

 The image doesn't affect the height of a (parent) inline element as  
 you seem to expect.

I guess not :)

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Andrew Gaffney
agaffney.org
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