[css-d] Nested Horizontal Menu Problem

[Jeff Gates]

I am trying to create a nested horizontal menu at the bottom of my Web  
page.   

I got it to work just the way I'd like on a test page (where the menu is
the only thing on the page): http://outtacontext.com/list5b.html. But when  
I put into my Web page, all the links are pushed together (see the  
bottom of the page): http://inourpath.com/about.html.   

It seems that some style for the site itself is affecting the   
css/placement of this menu. But for the life of me, I can't figure it out.  
I need some fresh eyes or a workaround. 

Thanks, Jeff  



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[css-d] Still Having Problem with Menu Line Break

[Jeff Gates]

Page in question: http://inourpath.com/intro.html

I am still having problem with the bottom menu line breaking to a second
line in IE 6 and IE7. The "MAP" is breaking to a second line. The menu is
in the nav div which is centered within the bottom_menu div (the 
bottom_menu div is exactly the width of the content area (530px). To 
center the nav div I set the width and made the left and right margins 
auto.

I feel the problem might be with the size of the text in IE. I've got the 
menu items set at a font size of x-small. 

If the problem is because IE is making the size of the text a bit bigger 
(and therefore moving the last menu item to a second line) how can I get 
the menu to have some breathing room and expand width if it needs to, but 
still stay centered?

Thx. Jeff

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Re: [css-d] dropdown menu issue with IE6

[Jeff Gates]

> >  -I have two horizontal navigation areas using Son of Suckerfish dropdowns
> >  -the 2nd area is also using background image replacement
> >  -one page has a Flash file where the 2nd level dropdowns were getting
> >  hidden even with a transparency setting on the Flash file (solved
> >  using {position:relative;z-index: 999;} in the CSS)
> >  -problem now is that the dropdown menu is pushed off to the far right
> >  in IE6 (fixed if I remove the above additional CSS, but then back to
> >  the original problem)
> >
> >  Personally, I would love to say "screw IE6 users" but I'm not in a
> >  position to do that. Anyone have any suggestions on how to resolve the
> >  above problem?
> >

FYI, the dropdown menus are hidden under the flash when I view it on 
Firefox 2 (Mac). And in my IE6, I'm not getting any dropdown menus. 

Jeff

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Re: [css-d] Static background at bottom of browser window?

[Jeff Gates]

> What I really would like to ask is how do I code the css so that the piece
> of grass is always at the bottom of the browser, no matter how big the
> browser is or how much content there is further down?
> 
> The ideal would be for the grass to always be at the bottom of the window
> that the user can see, even if there is still more content that requeires
> the user to scroll down.
> 
> So far I have:
> body{
> background-color: #CCE7FA;
> background-image: url(images/grass.jpg);
> background-repeat: repeat-x;
> background-position: bottom;
> }
> 
> which only gives me the basics. Plus, if the content doesn't fill up the
> browser window, the solid blue background continues underneath the grass!
> 

I have done something like this on my blog: http://life.outtacontext.com. 
My css is similar to yours:

body {  margin: 0px 0px 20px 0px;
background-color: #33;
background-image: url(images/oranges_bottom.jpg);
background-position: left bottom;
background-attachment: fixed;
background-repeat: repeat-x;
text-align: center;
}

The background image I use "matches" at the left/right seam so that when 
it repeats it's seems continuous. I also position it left bottom, rather 
than just bottom. 

But I also have a content area that essentially sits above my background. 
The background is static but when the viewer scrolls s/he is scrolling the 
content area. I also added some spacing to the bottom of the content area 
so that someone could scroll up enough to see the image. 

BTW, the margin and text-align is used to help center the content area 
however large the browser window is (the text-align is so that it will 
work in IE6). 

Jeff

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Re: [css-d] Still Having Problem with Menu Line Break

[Jeff Gates]

> Try changing the width on #nav to a suitable "em" value. In general,
> font sizes do not correspond to any particular number of pixels-- only
> in particular cases, such as in IE on an OS set to 96 DPI is that so.
> 
> FWIW - The menu breaks to two lines in all my browsers this end;
> IE and Opera put both "Commentary" and "Maps" on the
> second line, probably due to my having "large fonts" installed.
> 
> Although you have "frozen" the font-size to 12px in IE, note that
> other browsers allow you to boost this value at will, so be sure to
> test using browser text size controls.

Thanks David. Ems! Why didn't I think of that! -g Let me try. 

The font size I stipulated wasn't 12px but x-small. I'd like to know more 
about how that works. Is it more like ems, which change depending on the 
user's prefs? How did you come up with 12px in IE?

As to users being able to increase the size of fonts, is there anything we 
can really do about that, especially in a situation like this menu? Having 
the menu on one line is my goal. And if there are tips to make it happen 
in as many situations as possible, I want to know. But when does one say: 
I've done my best? (A rhetorical question, I'm sure we've all asked 
ourselves --any concrete solutions, let me know.)

Jeff

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Re: [css-d] Still Having Problem with Menu Line Break

[Jeff Gates]

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008, David Hucklesby wrote:

> On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 20:33:08 -0600 (CST), Jeff Gates wrote:
> > Page in question: http://inourpath.com/intro.html
> >
> > I am still having problem with the bottom menu line breaking to a
> > second line in IE 6 and IE7. The "MAP" is breaking to a second line.
> > The menu is in the nav div which is centered within the bottom_menu
> > div (the bottom_menu div is exactly the width of the content area
> > (530px). To center the nav div I set the width and made the left and
> > right margins auto.

> Try changing the width on #nav to a suitable "em" value. In general,
> font sizes do not correspond to any particular number of pixels-- only
> in particular cases, such as in IE on an OS set to 96 DPI is that so.

David, I tried changing the width of the #nav to ems. Unfortunately, it 
continues to break the menu line into two lines. Here's what I think is 
the problem: 

In order to center the menu I'm using the css where you define the width 
of the element and then set the left and right margins to auto. As long as 
I have to set that width to the exact width of the menu (approx 26em or 
426px) then if a users font size is larger than normal it's going to force 
the menu to a second line (that is, if 26em is too small to fit all the 
menu items on one line).

What I want to do is to be able to center the menu within the content area
(which is 530px). There is room to "grow" within that content area if need
be. Essentially, I want that menu element to "float" within the maximum
width of my content area (530px), expanding as needed up to that maximum
width. But how can I do that and still center the menu?

My css for the #nav right now is:

#nav { width:26.8em; 
   height:20px; 
   margin: 20px auto 54px auto;
   position:relative;
   text-align: center;
  }

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Re: [css-d] Still Having Problem with Menu Line Break

[Jeff Gates]

> > David, I tried changing the width of the #nav to ems. Unfortunately,
> > it continues to break the menu line into two lines. Here's what I
> > think is the problem:
> >
> [...]
> 
> But the model you are using[1] is not centered. I also note that Stu's
> design also breaks at more than one level of increase in Firefox.
> 
> Getting horizontal menus right is quite difficult. Centering is an
> extra complication. Drop-downs add even more complexity.

Well, I think I solved my problem. I did a couple of things. First I made 
the text and letter spacing a bit smaller to reduce the length of the menu 
line. Then I fudged the size of the #nav, increasing it just a bit more 
than the size of the menu. While this offset the menu (so, technically, it 
isn't smack-dab in the center, but just off center by a few pixels), it 
allowed the menu to stay on one line. Unless you're really looking for the 
centering, the viewer won't notice it.

Of course, it's not a perfect solution (often, what is?). But it's a 
decent compromise to get it looking right in IE and other major browsers. 
Thanks, David for your help.

Jeff

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Re: [css-d] Slide show in a single picture frame

[Jeff Gates]

> Is it possible ti create a slide show with in a single picture frame  
> on a web site.

Take a look at Slideshow Pro (http://slideshowpro.net). It's flash-based, 
the images are all in one "frame" so to speak, and you can set it to 
automatically advance. 

I've created numerous slide shows online with this and it's great. 

Jeff

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[css-d] Getting Rid of White Background

[Jeff Gates]

I am trying to port over a menu I have on the main part of my site to a
page that is outside the site template. But in adapting the css so the
menu text is white I seem to be having a problem with IE6/7. It is showing
the whole block as white (the text is there but it, too, is white
(which is what I want) and the links are working).

I've tried commenting out all indications of colored backgrounds in any
menu nav element (the menu that appears on the rest of the site has a lot
of background: #fff;) but that doesn't seem to help. I don't know where 
that white background is coming from. Can anyone tell me?

The page in question: http://inourpath.com/map/maps2.html
To see the original menu scroll to the bottom of this page: 
http://inourpath.com/intro.html

Any help would be appreciated. Thx.

Jeff

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Re: [css-d] Getting Rid of White Background

[Jeff Gates]

> Jeff Gates wrote:
> 
> > I've tried commenting out all indications of colored backgrounds in 
> > any menu nav element (the menu that appears on the rest of the site 
> > has a lot of background: #fff;) but that doesn't seem to help. I 
> > don't know where that white background is coming from. Can anyone 
> > tell me?

> The addition of...
> 
> ul, a {background: transparent!important;}
> 
> ...will of course override all instances of white background on the
> relevant elements - as a temporary solution.

Thanks Georg. That did the trick. 

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[css-d] A CSS Mystery

[Jeff Gates]

Well, it's a mystery to me. Maybe one of you can help me solve this. My 
styles disappeared. I've solved how to get them back. But I'd like to know 
why this happened.

In the Web site I've presently developing most of my files are of one
layout and I have separate stylesheets that define the css. But I am
creating a couple of different pages that are in a much more simple layout
and don't need these stylesheets. On the main page of this simplified
section I eliminated the  tags that go to the main css and put the
few styles I need in the  section of the file. On the two subpages
within this section I kept the link tags (no special reason --I'm just in
the middle of development) but added a couple styles, also within the
.

So, here's what happened: If I went into the site through the front door 
or directly to any page that used the main stylesheets all looked fine. 
When I went to the main simplified page it looked fine BUT when I went 
back to the main part of the site via a menu at the bottom of this page I 
lost all my styles for the site. The background image in the two child 
pages of the simplified parent also refused to show (again, even though I 
had links to the stylesheet with this background style). Eliminating the 
css link on the simplified parent page seemed to break all of this. 

I solved this problem by reinstating the link tags to my stylesheets on
the simplified parent page. And now all works well. The css is not lost
when returning to the main part of the site.

So, what was happening? 

And the odd thing is that in Firefox (both on Macs and PCs) I cannot get 
the styles to show up, even though I've corrected the problem. I've 
emptied my cache and reset the personal settings (except for cookies). 
Doesn't help. Is there a cookie here? When I reset Safari (including 
cookies) my styles return to the main part of the site. 

Jeff

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Re: [css-d] A CSS Mystery

[Jeff Gates]

> Can you post a URL to the problem pages and CSS files?  Without URL's
> it's nearly impossible to know what the problem might be.
>   
> > When I went to the main simplified page it looked fine BUT when I went  
> > back to the main part of the site via a menu at the bottom of this 
> > page I lost all my styles for the site. The background image in the 
> > two child  

Sure: the simplied parent page is: http://inourpath.com/maps/index.html 

As I said, I've fixed the problem by reinstating the css links in the   
. When they weren't there the problem occurred, as I outlined it in   
my original post.   

Jeff  



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Re: [css-d] A CSS Mystery

[Jeff Gates]

> > 
> >
> > As I said, I've fixed the problem by reinstating the css links in the
> > . When they weren't there the problem occurred, as I outlined it in
> > my original post.
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> >
> Try removing the title attributes in the css links and it should work

A question and a comment: Susan, can you tell me why taking out the title 
attributes would fix it? Comment: I use a switcher to switch between text 
sizes and I need those attributes for the js to work. 

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Re: [css-d] A CSS Mystery

[Jeff Gates]

> > A question and a comment: Susan, can you tell me why taking out the title
> > attributes would fix it? Comment: I use a switcher to switch between text
> > sizes and I need those attributes for the js to work.
> >
> >
> It's about "preference"  This is a good explanation by Eric, old, but good:
> 
> 
> 
> http://devedge-temp.mozilla.org/viewsource/2002/preferred-stylesheets/index_en.html

Thanks Susan. I read the article and this part of it applies to the way my 
two stylesheets function:

"The primary use for preferred stylesheets is to designate one stylesheet 
as preferred for the document display; that is, it is the "default" 
presentation. If any alternate stylesheet is selected, then the preferred 
stylesheet is dropped in favor of the user-selected alternate stylesheet. 
This is different than persistent stylesheets, which are always applied to 
a document, whether an alternate stylesheet has been selected or not."

This is how I want my stylesheets to function: the "default" is the 
preferred one. If the viewer selects a "button" they can view the 
"alternate" (which is a large text version).

What I got out of reading Eric's piece is (and tell me if I'm wrong) that 
if I take out the title attribute I would force the css to be persistent 
rather than preferred and that would force the css to display. Is that 
what you're saying?

Jeff

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[css-d] Diff between display:none and visibility:hidden

[Jeff Gates]

I know that one difference between display:none and visibility:hidden is 
that the former does not leave space in the layout where the code exists 
on the page, while the latter does. Are there other differences?

Using visibility:hidden I have hidden a whole string of links I need on
the page to use Lightbox 2's slideshow feature. It works as it should.  
But there is "white space" in the layout where the long list of links
appears in the code. If I use display:none instead, will Lightbox still
see this string of links? I'd like to eliminate the white space in the
layout.

In other words, is the only difference between the display and visibility 
properties that one leaves space in layout and the other doesn't?

Thanks, Jeff

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Re: [css-d] Diff between display:none and visibility:hidden

[Jeff Gates]

Last night I replaced visability:hidden with display:none in my 
implementation of Lightbox's slideshow. It works fine (and just as 
described, the extra space that the visibility property put on my page has 
now been eliminated with the display property).

It's not necessary for accessibility for a reader to "see" this code as 
it's only required to make the slideshow feature work. I haven't, in all 
honesty, looked into the accessibility issues with Lightbox per se. 

> > I know that one difference between display:none and visibility:hidden is 
> > that the former does not leave space in the layout where the code exists 
> > on the page, while the latter does. Are there other differences?

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[css-d] Building a Print CSS

[Jeff Gates]

I'm trying to create a print css and am having a few problems. The first
is that when there is a lot of text on a Web page, it only prints one
page, cutting the rest of the text off.

Example: http://inourpath.com/essay1.html
Print CSS: http://inourpath.com/iop_print.css

BTW, I found a nice bit of css by Eric Meyer on A List Apart for printing
the URLs of links when one prints the page (it's in the css file mentioned
above).

Jeff



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[css-d] Mystery: The Case of the Missing CSS

[Jeff Gates]

I (and a few others) are encountering an intermittent CSS problem on my
site, where, seemingly all of a sudden, all styles disappear on a
displayed page.

My css validates (http://inourpath.com/iop.css, web site:  
http://inourpath.com/intro.html as an example page, but can happen across
the site). I do need to fix a few html validation problems. If you're in
Firefox 2 you can go to View-->Page Style and then pick the default css
and it will come back. In IE6 and Safari on my iPhone I don't know how to
get it back. Emptying cache and history doesn't seem to do it.

In troubleshooting this I found an old (1999)  article by Eric Meyer
"Help! My CSS Isn't Working!"  
(http://meyerweb.com/eric/articles/webrev/199904.html) in which he says
that there should be no space between the property and the variable (i.e.  
it shouldn't be this: width: 100%; --instead it should be width:100%;). Is
this still true?

Are there other little things I should be aware of to help problem solve
the Case of the Missing CSS (again, it doesn't happen often but I can't
figure out a constant for when it does)?

Jeff

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Re: [css-d] Mystery: The Case of the Missing CSS

[Jeff Gates]

BTW, could this problem have anything to do with the fact that I have 
created a rule in my .htaccess file to resolve to this domain from a 
directory in my main domain (ex http://domain_one.com/my_dir 
-->http://inourpath.com)?

> I (and a few others) are encountering an intermittent CSS problem on my
> site, where, seemingly all of a sudden, all styles disappear on a
> displayed page.

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Re: [css-d] Mystery: The Case of the Missing CSS

[Jeff Gates]

Oh, I'm probably the one to be embarrassed. I'm sure you're right. I'm  
blindly searching for an answer to my sometimes missing CSS. ;-)

///----
Jeff Gates
Life Outtacontext
http://life.outtacontext.com

On Mar 14, 2008, at 4:52 PM, "Eric A. Meyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> At 3:03 PM -0500 3/14/08, Jeff Gates wrote:
>
>> In troubleshooting this I found an old (1999)  article by Eric Meyer
>> "Help! My CSS Isn't Working!"
>> (http://meyerweb.com/eric/articles/webrev/199904.html) in which he  
>> says
>> that there should be no space between the property and the variable  
>> (i.e.
>> it shouldn't be this: width: 100%; --instead it should be width: 
>> 100%;). Is
>> this still true?
>
>   It was never true.  But it's always been true that you can't  
> legally put spaces between values and units, which is what I believe  
> I said in that article.  (If I said otherwise, I'll be suitably  
> embarrassed.)
>
> -- 
> Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
> "CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously."
>  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
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[css-d] Multiple Backgrounds in CSS2

[Jeff Gates]

I have a tiling fixed background to the body of my site. A content
container sits on top of this background. At the bottom of the page I want
to put a fixed image that sits below the container and as the container is
scrolled this image reveals itself.

To get a sense of what I'm talking about take a look at
http://life.outtacontext.com. As you scroll the content up, you see the
flowers at the bottom, underneath the content area. To see what I want to
do on a similarly designed site, take a look at
http://inourpath.com/intro.html. At the bottom of the page is an image of
a car. I did this mockup quickly to see how it would look, just putting a
div at the bottom of the page. But it scrolls with up with the content. I 
want it to be anchored to the bottom of the page and revealed as you 
scroll up.

The difference with the former site I mentioned is that it was easy to
anchor the flowers at the bottom. A simple body background image fixed to
the bottom (I used a background color for the rest of the background). 
However, in my new site I already use a background image. I know that CSS3 
might make this easier to accomplish. But until then, can any of you think 
of a way to do this?

Jeff

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Re: [css-d] Multiple Backgrounds in CSS2

[Jeff Gates]

Georg, thank you very much. 


> > http://inourpath.com/intro.html. At the bottom of the page is an 
> > image of a car. I did this mockup quickly to see how it would look, 
> > just putting a div at the bottom of the page. But it scrolls with up 
> > with the content. I want it to be anchored to the bottom of the page 
> > and revealed as you scroll up.
> 
> Start by cleaning up the markup. Get rid of all those  you have in
> there, and name the ID correctly:
> 
> 
> 
> All contents of In Our Path are ©1983-2008 Jeff Gates
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following CSS (2/2.1):
> 
> body {margin: 0;}
> 
> #car {height: 250px; background: transparent
> url(http://inourpath.com/images/car.gif) no-repeat center bottom fixed;}
> 
> ...will then do the rest in all browsers above IE6.
> 
> If you really, really, also need a workaround for IE6, it is always
> possible to hack/stack in a "foreground as background" as described,
> with demo, on this page...
> <http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/wd_additions_15.html>
> 
> regards
>   Georg
> 

-- 

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Re: [css-d] Building a Print CSS

[Jeff Gates]

Christian, thanks. That helped. But now I see that my first printed page's 
margins are quite wide, while the second page is just as it should be. I 
have the width set to auto for that #center div. 

Jeff

> I once had similar problems and found out that "overflow: hidden;" set 
> on one of the parents of the text container that is cropped caused them.
> 
> Set
> 
> #center {
> overflow: visible;
> }
> 
> for print. That should help.
> 
> 
> Jeff Gates schrieb:
> > I'm trying to create a print css and am having a few problems. The first
> > is that when there is a lot of text on a Web page, it only prints one
> > page, cutting the rest of the text off.
> >
> > Example: http://inourpath.com/essay1.html
> > Print CSS: http://inourpath.com/iop_print.css

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[css-d] Image Not Showing Up in IE

[Jeff Gates]

There should be a image in the upper left corner of the content on this 
page: 
http://americanart.si.edu/museum_info/onlineshop/books/books.cfml?ID=47

But it doesn't show up in IE (7). 

Here is the html:





112 pp.: ill. (52 color)
9 3/16 x 9 3/16 in.
ISBN 0-937311-55-3 softcover



The problem seems to be with the css. When the "leftbox" id css is removed 
the image shows up in IE. 

The leftbox css is:

#leftbox { float:left;
width:150px;
background: #fff;
margin-right: 30px; 
margin-bottom: 20px;}


This is an old page and there are some issues (like the center tag). BTW, 
the height and width for the image isn't included because it's drawing 
from a database of different sized images).

Can anyone offer a clue as to why the image isn't showing up in IE?

Thx.
-- 

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Re: [css-d] Image Not Showing Up in IE

[Jeff Gates]

On Tue, 21 Oct 2008, Thierry Koblentz wrote:

> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > discuss.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Gates
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 9:05 AM
> > To: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
> > Subject: [css-d] Image Not Showing Up in IE
> > 
> > There should be a image in the upper left corner of the content on this
> > page:
> > http://americanart.si.edu/museum_info/onlineshop/books/books.cfml?ID=47
> > 
> > But it doesn't show up in IE (7).
> > 
> > Here is the html:
> > 
> > 
> >  > border="1" />
> > 
> > 
> > 112 pp.: ill. (52 color)
> > 9 3/16 x 9 3/16 in.
> > ISBN 0-937311-55-3 softcover
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > The problem seems to be with the css. When the "leftbox" id css is removed
> > the image shows up in IE.
> > 
> > The leftbox css is:
> > 
> > #leftbox { float:left;
> > width:150px;
> > background: #fff;
> > margin-right: 30px;
> > margin-bottom: 20px;}
> > 
> > 
> > This is an old page and there are some issues (like the center tag). BTW,
> > the height and width for the image isn't included because it's drawing
> > from a database of different sized images).
> 
> 
> Try:
> #leftbox {
>   position:relative;
>   ...
> }

Thanks. But that didn't work. 

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Re: [css-d] Image Not Showing Up in IE

[Jeff Gates]

On Tue, 21 Oct 2008, Jack Timmons wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 11:05 AM, Jeff Gates <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > There should be a image in the upper left corner of the content on this
> > page:
> > http://americanart.si.edu/museum_info/onlineshop/books/books.cfml?ID=47
> >
> > But it doesn't show up in IE (7).
> >
> > Here is the html:
> >
> > 
> >  > border="1" />
> >
> > 
> > 112 pp.: ill. (52 color)
> > 9 3/16 x 9 3/16 in.
> > ISBN 0-937311-55-3 softcover
> > 
> > 
> >
> > The problem seems to be with the css. When the "leftbox" id css is removed
> > the image shows up in IE.
> >
> > The leftbox css is:
> >
> > #leftbox { float:left;
> >width:150px;
> >background: #fff;
> >margin-right: 30px;
> >margin-bottom: 20px;}
> >
> >
> > This is an old page and there are some issues (like the center tag). BTW,
> > the height and width for the image isn't included because it's drawing
> > from a database of different sized images).
> >
> > Can anyone offer a clue as to why the image isn't showing up in IE?
> >
> > Thx.
> > --
> 
> Some other smarter minds than I might find a better answer, but
> testing Thierry's answer of adding position: relative fixed it here.
> 
> -Jack

Can you send me the entire css for #leftbox just as you had it? Thx.

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[css-d] Creating a Print CSS

[Jeff Gates]

We have a problem printing pages from our Web site in Mozilla. It will only
print one page, no matter how long that page is. 

To try to fix this problem I have created a print test with a link to a
specific print.css file (we're not using a print-specific css file at the
moment). 

Here's the test page:
http://americanart.si.edu/education/print_test.cfm

The print stylesheet looks like this:

body {
font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;
font-size: 12pt;
background-color: #fff;
background-image: url(/global/saam-logo-print.gif);
background-repeat: no-repeat;
background-attachment: scroll;
background-position: left top;
}

#header, #menubox  { display: none; 
}

What am I doing wrong?
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