Re: [css-d] thoughts on bootstrap and is bootstrap a good approach to setting up a website that fits in different viewport sizes?
On Sunday, May 10, 2015, MiB digital.disc...@gmail.com wrote: may 10 2015 01:57 Al Sparber aspar...@roadrunner.com javascript:;: On 5/9/2015 4:37 PM, Erik Visser wrote: It has been a while since i was working on a regular basis on websites. But I'am quite familiar with css and html/php/and more. If you understand CSS, then all you need to create a responsive site is understand media queries. It is a series of actions/counteractions, at one or more breakpoints. I respectfully disagree it’s enough to ”understand” CSS or media queries. Designing for different sizes is Design first and foremost. You need a process to build a great design and in that process you need to address multiple concerns, especially concerning how your design ideas translate to different sizes. Media Queries is but a tool to put those across. Agreed. While I can't speak for Al, my similar comment was directed towards implementation of design. Not a replacement of. The work you speak of still has to happen. -- Tom Livingston | Senior Front-End Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | medialogic.com #663399 __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] thoughts on bootstrap and is bootstrap a good approach to setting up a website that fits in different viewport sizes?
On Sunday, May 10, 2015, MiB digital.disc...@gmail.com wrote: I respectfully disagree it’s enough to ”understand” CSS or media queries. Designing for different sizes is Design first and foremost. You need a process to build a great design and in that process you need to address multiple concerns, especially concerning how your design ideas translate to different sizes. Media Queries is but a tool to put those across. On 5/10/2015 8:20 AM, Tom Livingston wrote: Agreed. While I can't speak for Al, my similar comment was directed towards implementation of design. Not a replacement of. The work you speak of still has to happen. Yes. That is what I meant. -- Al Sparber - PVII http://www.projectseven.com The Finest Dreamweaver Menus | Galleries | Widgets Since 1998 __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] thoughts on bootstrap and is bootstrap a good approach to setting up a website that fits in different viewport sizes?
may 10 2015 01:57 Al Sparber aspar...@roadrunner.com: On 5/9/2015 4:37 PM, Erik Visser wrote: It has been a while since i was working on a regular basis on websites. But I'am quite familiar with css and html/php/and more. If you understand CSS, then all you need to create a responsive site is understand media queries. It is a series of actions/counteractions, at one or more breakpoints. I respectfully disagree it’s enough to ”understand” CSS or media queries. Designing for different sizes is Design first and foremost. You need a process to build a great design and in that process you need to address multiple concerns, especially concerning how your design ideas translate to different sizes. Media Queries is but a tool to put those across. You also need to research and get your head around the differences between responsive and mobile-friendly sites. It is not a one-to-one relationship. Very true. __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] thoughts on bootstrap and is bootstrap a good approach to setting up a website that fits in different viewport sizes?
On Saturday, May 9, 2015, Al Sparber aspar...@roadrunner.com wrote: On 5/9/2015 4:37 PM, Erik Visser wrote: Al Sparber schreef op 09-05-15 om 18:30: On 5/9/2015 7:25 AM, Erik Visser wrote: Bootstrap (getbootstrap.com) was brought to my attention. Is this a good bas/general approach? What are your thoughts on and experiences with bootstrap. Or is there another / better / simpeler / leaner / cleaner approach ? In my opinion--yes. CSS is very logical and easy to learn. Learn CSS and your site(s) will be far more efficient, and future-proof. Hi Al, Thanks for your thoughts. Can you explain what are the specific cons of using bootstrap? It's good for folks who do not understand CSS to the point of being able to create media queries. For anyone else, it is overkill (in my opinion). It has been a while since i was working on a regular basis on websites. But I'am quite familiar with css and html/php/and more. If you understand CSS, then all you need to create a responsive site is understand media queries. It is a series of actions/counteractions, at one or more breakpoints. I agree with Al on this. If you know enough css, you can make a more efficient and lighter weight site. I've always found things like Bootstrap to be too much. -- Tom Livingston | Senior Front-End Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | medialogic.com #663399 __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] thoughts on bootstrap and is bootstrap a good approach to setting up a website that fits in different viewport sizes?
On 5/9/2015 4:37 PM, Erik Visser wrote: Al Sparber schreef op 09-05-15 om 18:30: On 5/9/2015 7:25 AM, Erik Visser wrote: Bootstrap (getbootstrap.com) was brought to my attention. Is this a good bas/general approach? What are your thoughts on and experiences with bootstrap. Or is there another / better / simpeler / leaner / cleaner approach ? In my opinion--yes. CSS is very logical and easy to learn. Learn CSS and your site(s) will be far more efficient, and future-proof. Hi Al, Thanks for your thoughts. Can you explain what are the specific cons of using bootstrap? It's good for folks who do not understand CSS to the point of being able to create media queries. For anyone else, it is overkill (in my opinion). It has been a while since i was working on a regular basis on websites. But I'am quite familiar with css and html/php/and more. If you understand CSS, then all you need to create a responsive site is understand media queries. It is a series of actions/counteractions, at one or more breakpoints. You also need to research and get your head around the differences between responsive and mobile-friendly sites. It is not a one-to-one relationship. Point is that at this stage i don't have an overview of which items need to be taken care of when developing a responsive website. Were a responsive website stands for: a website that fits all viewport sizes. Where all viewport sizes might be best defined as all major/most used viewport sizes. From smaller mobile devices to bigger screens. Bootstrap tries to cover all viewport sizes, which is one reason why I consider it overkill. You need to understand the difference between a fixed viewport and a viewport whose width is chiefly determined by a web designer playing with window size to see what cute things happen as the window is made narrower or wider. I guess that issues that need to be taken care of contain: menu positions and menu-types, viewport size, rearranging text and lay-out, resizing (background) images, ...(more)...? All these issues depend on and/or are related to actual viewport-size of the screen that is used. Modern menus, whether automated tools such as ours, or copy/paste jQuery widgets, are responsive by nature. That is, give them a breakpoint and they will alter how they render to make them usable on phones. -- Al Sparber - PVII http://www.projectseven.com The Finest Dreamweaver Menus | Galleries | Widgets Since 1998 __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] thoughts on bootstrap and is bootstrap a good approach to setting up a website that fits in different viewport sizes?
Al Sparber schreef op 09-05-15 om 18:30: On 5/9/2015 7:25 AM, Erik Visser wrote: Bootstrap (getbootstrap.com) was brought to my attention. Is this a good bas/general approach? What are your thoughts on and experiences with bootstrap. Or is there another / better / simpeler / leaner / cleaner approach ? In my opinion--yes. CSS is very logical and easy to learn. Learn CSS and your site(s) will be far more efficient, and future-proof. Hi Al, Thanks for your thoughts. Can you explain what are the specific cons of using bootstrap? It has been a while since i was working on a regular basis on websites. But I'am quite familiar with css and html/php/and more. Point is that at this stage i don't have an overview of which items need to be taken care of when developing a responsive website. Were a responsive website stands for: a website that fits all viewport sizes. Where all viewport sizes might be best defined as all major/most used viewport sizes. From smaller mobile devices to bigger screens. I guess that issues that need to be taken care of contain: menu positions and menu-types, viewport size, rearranging text and lay-out, resizing (background) images, ...(more)...? All these issues depend on and/or are related to actual viewport-size of the screen that is used. Since i don't have the overview of these issues that should be taken care of, I thought it might be handy (more practical) to take a ready to use base/template which already addresses all these issues, and learn about these issues from there. Were i guess this base/template is the result of (lots of) webdevelopers that are (or have been) busy converting sites mainly designed for large screens to websites that are more mobile friendly (multi viewport sizes). This must have been done already so often that there might be some good roadmaps and maybe light-weight frameworks/templates including the most nescessary elements to achieve a responsive website. But i'am also glad if you have some good articles or a series of articles that breaks down the task of building a responsive website into a series of issues that need to be taken care of. Where this could be seen as succeeding steps of the issues to address, also a kind of roadmap. Thanks, Erik __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] thoughts on bootstrap and is bootstrap a good approach to setting up a website that fits in different viewport sizes?
On 5/9/2015 5:15 PM, de...@littlegent.com wrote: But i'am also glad if you have some good articles or a series of articles that breaks down the task of building a responsive website into a series of issues that need to be taken care of. Where this could be seen as succeeding steps of the issues to address, also a kind of roadmap. You're aware of the Google tool, right? https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/mobile-friendly/ It will tell you your navigation links are too close, screen viewport not set and other things that are 'problems' by Google's standards. It also tells you what to do to fix them. The Google tools are crazy. If you do not pass the mobile-friendly test, then it will tell you of a whole plethora of things you might want to fix (few of which are actually important). If you pass the test, it simply congratulates you. The punchline here is that passing the test simply involves having a viewport meta tag and that your page scales to fit inside a smartphone viewport. That's it. Pass that and you get no further info. The entire implementation is not what it seems, although the mobile-friendly test is valuable as a snapshot of your your page in a phone. And that is all it really is. -- Al Sparber - PVII http://www.projectseven.com The Finest Dreamweaver Menus | Galleries | Widgets Since 1998 __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] thoughts on bootstrap and is bootstrap a good approach to setting up a website that fits in different viewport sizes?
But i'am also glad if you have some good articles or a series of articles that breaks down the task of building a responsive website into a series of issues that need to be taken care of. Where this could be seen as succeeding steps of the issues to address, also a kind of roadmap. You're aware of the Google tool, right? https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/mobile-friendly/ It will tell you your navigation links are too close, screen viewport not set and other things that are 'problems' by Google's standards. It also tells you what to do to fix them. __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] thoughts on bootstrap and is bootstrap a good approach to setting up a website that fits in different viewport sizes?
On 5/9/2015 7:25 AM, Erik Visser wrote: Bootstrap (getbootstrap.com) was brought to my attention. Is this a good bas/general approach? What are your thoughts on and experiences with bootstrap. Or is there another / better / simpeler / leaner / cleaner approach ? In my opinion--yes. CSS is very logical and easy to learn. Learn CSS and your site(s) will be far more efficient, and future-proof. -- Al Sparber - PVII http://www.projectseven.com The Finest Dreamweaver Menus | Galleries | Widgets Since 1998 __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
