Re: [CTRL] ] Waco Protest ALERT!
-Caveat Lector- I'm trying to give Andrew the benefit of the doubt. but something is nagging at the back of my mind. The virus story came up only after I demanded proof that I said what I was alleged to have said, a quote taken out of context with no date, post number, or any other reference point by which it could be verified. My gut instinct says there's more to this than meets the eye. I've got an idea what that more is, but I need to do further investigatin before I say on-list what it is. Tenorlove --- Amelia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Caveat Lector- XI have already been sent BadTrans before and it did NOT make a nice custom CTRL subject line, complete with snippets from 1999 archived posts. It was very generic like Hey, look at this! Any of you techies know how this works? BadTrans is supposed to operate on unread email so does this mean he is claiming to have email unread from 1999? ~Amelia~ __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] WACO: Gunshot Evidence
.. From the New Paradigms Project [Not Necessarily Endorsed] Note: We store 100's of related "conspiracy posts" at: http://www.msen.com/~lloyd/oldprojects/recentmail.html From: "Ian Goddard" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: WACO: Gunshot Evidence Date: Saturday, August 12, 2000 7:09 AM I just uploaded the "goodshot.wav" file with multiple applications of "noise reduction" using the GoldWave.com program, and named this new file "goodshot4.wav." I used GoldWave's default settings for the "noise reduction" effect, applying it about 8 times. I couldn't be more confident that this is what's said after the gunshot: Good shot? . . . A good shot! http://egroups.com/files/WacoInvestigations/goodshot4.wav Raw audio: http://users.erols.com/igoddard/goodshot.wav The first statement is someone asking a question, and the second is clearly an answer, apparently a confirmation. I hypothesize that it's sniper and spotter communicating. It's the "A" in "A good shot!" that allows it to sound like "I've been shot," as a respondent recently suggested. Indeed if you say both statements you'll notice that they have a similar overall rhythm. But it sounds far more like "A good shot." Observe that you can hear that the "good" (or "been") word ends with a strong "d." Also, what one interprets the statements to say needs to make sense, so if we assume the voice says "I've been shot," then who was shot? No agents were reported shot on 4/19/93. Furthermore, the guy says "__ shot!" and then a few seconds pass before the radio breaks in, and the guy says nothing more. He does not even sound shot. Were he shot, I suspect he'd at least be cursing, if not also moaning. Apart from the interpretation of "I've been shot," I don't see any other reason to believe anyone was shot. There's also no joking quality to the voice as one would expect if the guy was joking around after hearing a gunshot. All the qualities of the voices match the scenario that a sniper is asking his spotter after a shot, "Good shot?" Then the spotter replies "A good shot!" Then that's that, they fall silent having exchanged their necessary data: http://egroups.com/files/WacoInvestigations/goodshot4.wav Raw audio: http://users.erols.com/igoddard/goodshot.wav SWAT member near Sierra-3 says he is "honed to kill": http://www.egroups.com/files/WacoInvestigations/honed2kill.wav GODDARD'S JOURNAL: http://www.erols.com/igoddard/journal.htm Asking the "wrong questions," challenging the Official Story Forwarded for info and discussion from the New Paradigms Discussion List, not necessarily endorsed by: *** Lloyd Miller, Research Director for A-albionic Research a ruling class/conspiracy research resource for the entire political-ideological spectrum. **FREE RARE BOOK SEARCH: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** Explore Our Archive: http://a-albionic.com/a-albionic.html A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco Protest ALERT!
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- S... Is it true that you were arrested NOT for being a "martyr" but for UNPAID PARKING TICKETS? And that your "nemesis", Clive Doyle actually BAILED YOU OUT Jeez...With friends like this...hmmm... Answers puhlse! Bill. A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco Protest ALERT!
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/cover/c_page02.html -Original Message- From: Ynr Chyldz Wyld [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, March 27, 2000 6:14 AM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Waco Protest ALERT! -Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- From: "ThePiedPiper" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did not see a link to what the church was before that coward and child molester Koresh came on the scene. DO you have some PROOF that Koresh ever molested anyone? Funny, before the Feds got involved, the state of Texas investigated charges of molestation and sexual abuse against Koresh, and ruled them unfounded June A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco Protest 2000
OK FINE, SO ARE YOU "SELF APPOINTED OR WHAT?" How many times in one night do you have to post the SAME THING. Will You Give it A REST ALREADY! THANKS "MR. X" The other people are beginning to treat this as SPAM. And I will Just DELEAT IT. Thanks. ~ - Original Message - From: Andrew X98 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 8:46 PM Subject: [CTRL] "Waco Protest 2000" In The Name of God Most Gracious, Most Merciful Dear Brothers and Sisters, I am Andrew, "The Watchman" appointed by the survivors of the April 19,1993 Waco Holocaust. On September 18, 1999 Clive Doyle laid the foundation to the new church. This was a Sabbath. Since that day I have been warning the people of this nation about the Biblical implications of that crime against the Laws of God and the memory of the Martyrs. To get this job done I have been forced into this world of computers. I am very new at this method of communication and as a result I have made many mistakes in protocol. Only time and experience will correct this. I have sought out forums, E-Mail Lists and individuals that I thought would be interested and capable of understanding my message of great concern. I have studied each group and considered your level of thought processing in selecting you. I understood from the beginning that I would make mistakes. To overcome these problems I depended on your Christian concern and, in the absence of that, your humanity toward a petitioner. My premises is that you are people that care about the murder of these men, woman and children. I believe that there are many people in this country that want to see Bill Clinton and the others responsible for this mass murder brought to Justice. If you or your group fit this description then you already know that their religious beliefs were central in the commission of this crime. But what were their beliefs that they were willing to died for? Very few people know. Yet many have opinions about what they believed, they have passed judgment based solely on the words of the Murderers themselves. I have studied these people and their beliefs since the Feb.28, 1993. For the last three years I have lived here in Waco Texas among the survivors. I have learned a great deal, which I am willing to share with you, if that's what you want. Recently in my efforts to sound this alarm I have posted information about the: "Waco Protest 2000" This Protest is to be held at the gates of M.Carmel Center on April 19, 2000. I have also offered you a video at the cost of shipping and handling which has been reviewed by Carol Valentine. The review and comments can be viewed at: alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater under the title of "New Waco Video! Clive Doyle's Boyz Exposed!" This video shows that the people in charge of Mt.Carmel are agents for the Bill Clinton Murderers of the Children of Waco. I will continue to post Updates on this "Waco Protest" and information related to the teachings of David Koresh, so that those who wish an understanding might consider the nature of what it was that these people gave their lives for. If you or your group wish to not receive this information simply ask me or have the own of your list to ask me not to post . I have received many responses concerning "Waco Protest 2000". So intense has this response been that I have taken a day to consider the overall attitude being expressed and the confusion of what my intent is. I hope that this letter helps to bring things into a clearer view. What I see is that people want to argue their religious belief systems. This I am not interested in. It is a waste of everyone's time and is at best useless to the subject at hand; that being the arrest and trial of Bill Clinton for the Murder of the Children of Waco. It is hard for any of us not to have a knee jerk reaction to the Name Koresh because we have all been victimize by the ZOG Media mind control machine. We have been conditioned against this Name by the satanic forces of the world because Koresh is the Name of God and the surname of all of his children. Isa. 45:4. Isa.45[1] Thus satin the LORD to his anointed, to Syrups, whose right hand I have holder, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leafed gates; and the gates shall not be shut;[2] I will go before the, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:[3] And I will give the the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou gayest know that I, the LORD, which call the by thy name, am the God of Israel.[4] For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called the by thy
Re: [CTRL] Waco Protest ALERT!
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- Did not see a link to what the church was before that coward and child molester Koresh came on the scene. So, now they are trying to use him as a martyr and that he started the church are they so willing to give up their history for money? Or Is it that (many) of the original Branch Dividians got fed up with him and left? A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco Protest ALERT!
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- So you have reviled your self as not only stupid but a fool to boot. You have no idea of what you are talking about. Why not stand for truth and call for the arrest of the Bill Clinton murderers of the Children of Waco? Waco Protest 2000! Andrew X98 "The Watchman" The "Cover-up Church" was founded on the Sabbath 9-18-99 by Agent, Clive Doyle Waco Video: "X A True Revelation" $10.98 [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Children were "HACKED" to death before the fire! http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/index.html David Koresh Said: "The earthquake in Waco is not something to be taken lightly. It will probably be "the thing" needed to shake some sense into the people." -Original Message- From: ThePiedPiper [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sunday, March 26, 2000 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Waco Protest ALERT! -Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- Did not see a link to what the church was before that coward and child molester Koresh came on the scene. So, now they are trying to use him as a martyr and that he started the church are they so willing to give up their history for money? Or Is it that (many) of the original Branch Dividians got fed up with him and left? A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco Protest ALERT!
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- Either take off the ad for the video and leave that for those that want to go to the web site or I will start asking who else wants you kicked off! No matter how they died - to put this on a money footing by not giving out the history of that church, long before Koresh - belittles what happened. So, are you just some common gold digger? ThePiedPiper 26March2000 Andrew X98 wrote: -Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- So you have reviled your self as not only stupid but a fool to boot. You have no idea of what you are talking about. Why not stand for truth and call for the arrest of the Bill Clinton murderers of the Children of Waco? Waco Protest 2000! Andrew X98 "The Watchman" The "Cover-up Church" was founded on the Sabbath 9-18-99 by Agent, Clive Doyle Waco Video: "X A True Revelation" $10.98 [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Children were "HACKED" to death before the fire! http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/index.html David Koresh Said: "The earthquake in Waco is not something to be taken lightly. It will probably be "the thing" needed to shake some sense into the people." -Original Message- From: ThePiedPiper [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sunday, March 26, 2000 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Waco Protest ALERT! -Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- Did not see a link to what the church was before that coward and child molester Koresh came on the scene. So, now they are trying to use him as a martyr and that he started the church are they so willing to give up their history for money? Or Is it that (many) of the original Branch Dividians got fed up with him and left? A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. ==
Re: [CTRL] waco Protest update
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- I've never in my life mentioned or seen or in any way praised or salespitched anyone's film. I think that an email list is an innappropriate place to sell your wares. -Original Message- From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of ali andrew Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 10:34 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] waco Protest update -Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- I wonder why you have nothing but sales pitches and praise for McNaughty's Government film? Hm! Spooky isn't it? Andrew "The Watchman" A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] waco Protest update
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- No. I am making current information available to those that care about the truth of what this filthy government did and is doing. I wonder why you have nothing but sales pitches and praise for McNaughty's Government film? Hm! Spooky isn't it? Andrew "The Watchman" Waco Video: "X A True Revelation" $10.98 [EMAIL PROTECTED] They were HACKED to death before the fire! http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/index.html If you do not want updates on the current Government control of Mt.Carmel in New Jerusalem Waco Texas, reply to this post with UNSUBSCRIBE in the subject line. -Original Message- From: Tara [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 9:14 PM Subject: [CTRL] Ali has a video for sale! You wrote: Now you are using this list to sell a video. Prosletyzing, and using the list for commercial purposes. (That is Ali's email address.) Because I spoke truth: In The Name of Truth Most Gracious, Most Merciful. "The Watchman" Subject: Protest Update Date: March 12, 2000 This Sunday I went to Mt.Carmel in "New Jerusalem" Waco Texas to protest the building of the new "church" . As many of you know this "church was founded on the Sabbath, which was on a Saturday September 18,1999. Most people in this world believe that the Sabbath is on Sunday and yet they are building this "church" on that day. So no matter which day you believe is the Sabbath you must declare this "church" to be an Abomination. Know this; According to the teachings of David Koresh it is: "The Abomination That Maketh Desolate"! Many of you have already seen the new video that was, in part, shot at the beginning of this Protest on November 28, 1999. In the video "X A True Revelation" I was attacked, by Clive Doyle who is a government agent posing as a follower of David Koresh. For telling people the truth of his crimes against God he had me arrested. They sent a helicopter gun ship and squad ca rs to take me into custody. Since then I have continued my protest on the days of my choosing. March 12th was the first 'Sunday" I protested there since the attack by Clive Doyle and the builders. When I arrived outside the gate I was met by a visitor who asked about the reasons for my protest. Once I explained it to him he, like all other Christians, swore that he would in NO WAY support this sinful project. While speaking to him two trucks came from the building site just as they do in the video. Those that have seen the video know how violent these people are. Anyone with knowledge of this current government church project call "The Phoenix Project" can imagine what I expected. Since there were no videos there to protect me I thought that there would be trouble. The truck drove up to where I was and James Ritter [EMAIL PROTECTED] stepped out. This is the same man in the video that physically attacked me with Clive Doyle. Mr.Ritter extended his hand in peace and apologized for his behavior and for Clive's. He said that things just "got out of hand". Yeah they got out of hand all right, and I got put in Jail! So, it seems that he has been told by his "handlers that they are to use different tactics since this video has been released. This is a weak attempt to stop the truth, but the video shows them for who they are "Members of the Bill Clinton Murderers of The Children of Waco". At about 5:00 that afternoon I was approached by "Scott" the watchman for their "church". He had a passenger, white male in his mid twenties. He drove up next to me and pulled a Semi-automatic 9 mm pistol, waved it at me cocked the hammer and smiled. This is a crime! A clear assault! I called the police to report it. You will not believe what happened next. After giving the Waco police a report #00-15973 I was told that since the crime occurred outside of Waco I would have to report it to the McLennan County Sheriffs Department. This I did and was put in contact with Officer Keon. He is the cop that arrested me in the video. Officer Keon said that he was too busy to come out to my house to take a report! He was suppose to be here today, Teusday the 14th. When he didn't show up I called again. This time when he called back he said that I had NO RIGHT to be there and that he will arrest me if I protest there again! Also he stated that he would not take a report from me!! Should I lay down like a good doggie? I will lay down only if they are cowards enough to beat me down. I am "The Watchman" and I will sound the alarm! Please look at this for what it is. These people that are building this Abomination are agents of the Bill Clinton Murderers of the Children of Waco. The government remains in total control of this site of mass murder. Do not be fooled by the "Waco Suits for Waco Suckers" They are a smoke screen. http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/burial/page/b_wsws.html This
Re: [CTRL] Waco Protest Today!
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- ali andrew wrote: -Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- This was probably your attitude seven years ago when the "Bill Clinton Murderers of The Children of Waco" were torturing men women and Babies because they would not submit to the illegitimate authority of Babylon.. as you have. Andrew Actually I was outraged. Joshua2 -Original Message- From: Nurev Ind Research [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, March 07, 2000 7:06 AM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Waco Protest Today! -Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- 3/5/00 I wish that religion could produce as prodigious a supply of fresh clean water, as well as it produces such an overflowing of lunatics. Joshua2 = ali andrew wrote: In The Name of God Most Gracious Most Merciful An Open Letter to "Clive Doyle" I am coming to New Jerusalem (Mt.Carmel) to declare the"Truth" about the crimes that you are committing against the Martyrs and against the laws of God. I will not trespass on the property, because as I said on November 28,1999 when you had me arrested for speaking the Truth, "I don't want to come on that land be be a part of the "Synagogue Unto Satan" that you are building there for the Bill Clinton Murders of the Children of Waco. I will be unarmed, because my God is enough of a protector from the EVIL you and the KKK spread. I will again raise the flag of Christ again against your flag that is soaked in the blood of the Children of the World. If you attack it again I will defend it again...and again you will lose. I will be handing out flyers that state: X XX The Abomination That Maketh Desolate The foundation of this "church" was laid on the Sabbath by Clive Doyle This is a violation of the Laws of God and a Slander of the Martyrs *Now that you know "DO NOT" enter it or support it* For more information about the current government control of New Jerusalem Contact Andrew "The Watchman" [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/index.html A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER ===
Re: [CTRL] Waco Protest Today!
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- 3/5/00 I wish that religion could produce as prodigious a supply of fresh clean water, as well as it produces such an overflowing of lunatics. Joshua2 = ali andrew wrote: In The Name of God Most Gracious Most Merciful An Open Letter to "Clive Doyle" I am coming to New Jerusalem (Mt.Carmel) to declare the"Truth" about the crimes that you are committing against the Martyrs and against the laws of God. I will not trespass on the property, because as I said on November 28,1999 when you had me arrested for speaking the Truth, "I don't want to come on that land be be a part of the "Synagogue Unto Satan" that you are building there for the Bill Clinton Murders of the Children of Waco. I will be unarmed, because my God is enough of a protector from the EVIL you and the KKK spread. I will again raise the flag of Christ again against your flag that is soaked in the blood of the Children of the World. If you attack it again I will defend it again...and again you will lose. I will be handing out flyers that state: X XX The Abomination That Maketh Desolate The foundation of this "church" was laid on the Sabbath by Clive Doyle This is a violation of the Laws of God and a Slander of the Martyrs *Now that you know "DO NOT" enter it or support it* For more information about the current government control of New Jerusalem Contact Andrew "The Watchman" [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/index.html A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco Protest Today!
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- This was probably your attitude seven years ago when the "Bill Clinton Murderers of The Children of Waco" were torturing men women and Babies because they would not submit to the illegitimate authority of Babylon.. as you have. Andrew -Original Message- From: Nurev Ind Research [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, March 07, 2000 7:06 AM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Waco Protest Today! -Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- 3/5/00 I wish that religion could produce as prodigious a supply of fresh clean water, as well as it produces such an overflowing of lunatics. Joshua2 = ali andrew wrote: In The Name of God Most Gracious Most Merciful An Open Letter to "Clive Doyle" I am coming to New Jerusalem (Mt.Carmel) to declare the"Truth" about the crimes that you are committing against the Martyrs and against the laws of God. I will not trespass on the property, because as I said on November 28,1999 when you had me arrested for speaking the Truth, "I don't want to come on that land be be a part of the "Synagogue Unto Satan" that you are building there for the Bill Clinton Murders of the Children of Waco. I will be unarmed, because my God is enough of a protector from the EVIL you and the KKK spread. I will again raise the flag of Christ again against your flag that is soaked in the blood of the Children of the World. If you attack it again I will defend it again...and again you will lose. I will be handing out flyers that state: X XX The Abomination That Maketh Desolate The foundation of this "church" was laid on the Sabbath by Clive Doyle This is a violation of the Laws of God and a Slander of the Martyrs *Now that you know "DO NOT" enter it or support it* For more information about the current government control of New Jerusalem Contact Andrew "The Watchman" [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/index.html A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco Protest Today!
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- In a message dated 3/7/00 10:30:51 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This was probably your attitude seven years ago when the "Bill Clinton Murderers of The Children of Waco" Also known as the "Waco Wacko Davidiot BBQ And Bonfire"??? Bill. A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco Protest
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- In a message dated 2/28/00 12:39:55 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I go now to defend the Martyrs, Good...will you be gone long? Take your time... Bill. A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco Protest
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- Bill, You display your ignorance of Law. My post is coming soon, and I will show that what was done at Waco, which, your response, below, you must also participate in the murder of men, women, and children, Christians and Jews, and all of mankind that have been butchered by whatever egomaniac is in power. Regards, Don Wishart, DMD From: William Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] Waco Protest Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:43:33 EST -Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- In a message dated 2/28/00 12:39:55 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I go now to defend the Martyrs, Good...will you be gone long? Take your time... Bill. A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco Protest
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- I only hope that I am as big a pain in your ass, which you obviously use as your head, as I wish to be. -Original Message- From: William Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, February 28, 2000 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Waco Protest -Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- In a message dated 2/28/00 12:39:55 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I go now to defend the Martyrs, Good...will you be gone long? Take your time... Bill. A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco Protest
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- Where do all the angry people on this list come from? Rude and Crude! Must not have much education, and certainly no upbringing! From: ali andrew [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] Waco Protest Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:52:47 -0600 -Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- I only hope that I am as big a pain in your ass, which you obviously use as your head, as I wish to be. -Original Message- From: William Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, February 28, 2000 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Waco Protest -Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- In a message dated 2/28/00 12:39:55 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I go now to defend the Martyrs, Good...will you be gone long? Take your time... Bill. A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco Protest
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- "Ali's" constant harping on this topic is sickening and the cause of decent people on other, and like-minded, lists to leave...I'd hate to see "Ali" get his way here. This from another list... "They will most likely have me arrested..." Andrew We can only hope. Others are leaving the list because of Ali. I think a lot of people may have left already. Is there a moderator on this list or does anyone know how to contact the forum webmaster? I joined another list last night and if anyone knows of others that are in any way comparable to this list minus Ali Andrew, would you please let me know? You'll have to email me privately. I'll be gone from this list. And I would set my software to delete Ali, but I would still get responses from others, and so I'd get his stuff in the long run anyway. Tara A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco: Sniper's Nest Revealed
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- .. From the New Paradigms Project [Not Necessarily Endorsed]: Conspiracy Shopping Cart: http://a-albionic.com/shopping.htmlFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Waco: Sniper's Nest Revealed Date: Sunday, February 13, 2000 11:15 AM .. From the New Paradigms Project [Not Necessarily Endorsed]: Conspiracy Shopping Cart: http://a-albionic.com/shopping.htmlFrom: Ian Goddard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Waco: Sniper's Nest Revealed Date: Monday, February 07, 2000 9:43 PM At http://www.FreeRepublic.com/forum/a389f17ad2057.htm I wrote: I expect that the structure that appeared next to the gym on April 19 was a "portable" or make-shift sniper's nest. I got feedback back from one of the Davidian's lawyers. It appears that the most-accurate proposition was that it's a makeshift, not portable, sniper's nest. Apparently the tank knocked out the wall of the gym from the inside at that point (the resulting hole in the gym wall is not visible on the FLIR) and a sniper or snipers used the debris as a makeshift hide. The majority of FLIR experts reviewing the tape conclude that the thermal flashes at that point are gunshots directed at the Mt Carmel Center. An interesting question is why they'd shoot from such a close range? I observe that the trajectory of most of the shots fired from that close-in position are toward the tower. If there was a bomb planted on the floor of the second- story of the tower, which was the roof of the concrete room, there would be a risk that occupants might remove the planted bomb before it exploded. If you wanted to shoot into that room from long-range to kill anyone coming in, your bullets might hit a bomb. On the other hand, if you fired from a close enough angle, the trajectory of your bullet would come in at a steep angle that could not inadvertently hit a bomb on the floor. But then someone might be able to crawl in and get the bomb, and how would shooters outside know when someone was entering the room? Could they have placed a remote monitor in the room? There does appear to be a radio transceiver by the blast hole http://www.FreeRepublic.com/forum/a389a8c993193.htm that could facilitate remote-control operations, such as bomb detonation (the blast force of a shaped charge is directed into the target, which results in minimal forces being directed away from the target, hence objects could be found close to the blast hole). Just thinking out loud, hoping to stimulate public inquiry... WACO BOMB?: http://users.erols.com/igoddard/wacorom2.htm "There are times when you cannot keep your job and put alternative explanations for data on the table." Former FBI Special Agent Dr. Frederic Whitehurst Shop for Cars On-Line: http://a-albionic.com/ads/srch.html Forwarded for info and discussion from the New Paradigms Discussion List, not necessarily endorsed by: *** Lloyd Miller, Research Director for A-albionic Research (POB 20273, Ferndale, MI 48220), a ruling class/conspiracy research resource for the entire political-ideological spectrum. Quarterly journal, book sales, rare/out-of-print searches, New Paradigms Discussion List, Weekly Up-date Lists E-text Archive of research, intelligence, catalogs, resources. To Discuss Ideas: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://msen.com/~lloyd/ For Ordering Info Free Catalog: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://a-albionic.com/formaddress.html For Discussion List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] text in body: subscribe prj [EMAIL PROTECTED] **FREE RARE BOOK SEARCH: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** Explore Our Archive: http://a-albionic.com/a-albionic.html Every Diet Has Failed! What Can I do? Click Below to "Ask Dr. Kathleen"! http://www.radiantdiet.com/cgi-bin/slim/deliver.cgi?ask-1364 *** Shop for Cars On-Line: http://a-albionic.com/ads/srch.html Forwarded for info and discussion from the New Paradigms Discussion List, not necessarily endorsed by: *** Lloyd Miller, Research Director for A-albionic Research (POB 20273, Ferndale, MI 48220), a ruling class/conspiracy research resource for the entire political-ideological spectrum. Quarterly journal, book sales, rare/out-of-print searches, New Paradigms Discussion List, Weekly Up-date Lists E-text Archive of research, intelligence, catalogs, resources. To Discuss Ideas: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://msen.com/~lloyd/ For Ordering Info Free Catalog: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://a-albionic.com/formaddress.html For Discussion List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] text in body: subscribe prj [EMAIL PROTECTED] **FREE RARE
Re: [CTRL] Waco: Sniper's Nest Revealed
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- .. From the New Paradigms Project [Not Necessarily Endorsed]: Conspiracy Shopping Cart: http://a-albionic.com/shopping.htmlFrom: Ian Goddard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Waco: Sniper's Nest Revealed Date: Monday, February 07, 2000 9:43 PM At http://www.FreeRepublic.com/forum/a389f17ad2057.htm I wrote: I expect that the structure that appeared next to the gym on April 19 was a "portable" or make-shift sniper's nest. I got feedback back from one of the Davidian's lawyers. It appears that the most-accurate proposition was that it's a makeshift, not portable, sniper's nest. Apparently the tank knocked out the wall of the gym from the inside at that point (the resulting hole in the gym wall is not visible on the FLIR) and a sniper or snipers used the debris as a makeshift hide. The majority of FLIR experts reviewing the tape conclude that the thermal flashes at that point are gunshots directed at the Mt Carmel Center. An interesting question is why they'd shoot from such a close range? I observe that the trajectory of most of the shots fired from that close-in position are toward the tower. If there was a bomb planted on the floor of the second- story of the tower, which was the roof of the concrete room, there would be a risk that occupants might remove the planted bomb before it exploded. If you wanted to shoot into that room from long-range to kill anyone coming in, your bullets might hit a bomb. On the other hand, if you fired from a close enough angle, the trajectory of your bullet would come in at a steep angle that could not inadvertently hit a bomb on the floor. But then someone might be able to crawl in and get the bomb, and how would shooters outside know when someone was entering the room? Could they have placed a remote monitor in the room? There does appear to be a radio transceiver by the blast hole http://www.FreeRepublic.com/forum/a389a8c993193.htm that could facilitate remote-control operations, such as bomb detonation (the blast force of a shaped charge is directed into the target, which results in minimal forces being directed away from the target, hence objects could be found close to the blast hole). Just thinking out loud, hoping to stimulate public inquiry... WACO BOMB?: http://users.erols.com/igoddard/wacorom2.htm "There are times when you cannot keep your job and put alternative explanations for data on the table." Former FBI Special Agent Dr. Frederic Whitehurst Shop for Cars On-Line: http://a-albionic.com/ads/srch.html Forwarded for info and discussion from the New Paradigms Discussion List, not necessarily endorsed by: *** Lloyd Miller, Research Director for A-albionic Research (POB 20273, Ferndale, MI 48220), a ruling class/conspiracy research resource for the entire political-ideological spectrum. Quarterly journal, book sales, rare/out-of-print searches, New Paradigms Discussion List, Weekly Up-date Lists E-text Archive of research, intelligence, catalogs, resources. To Discuss Ideas: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://msen.com/~lloyd/ For Ordering Info Free Catalog: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://a-albionic.com/formaddress.html For Discussion List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] text in body: subscribe prj [EMAIL PROTECTED] **FREE RARE BOOK SEARCH: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** Explore Our Archive: http://a-albionic.com/a-albionic.html Every Diet Has Failed! What Can I do? Click Below to "Ask Dr. Kathleen"! http://www.radiantdiet.com/cgi-bin/slim/deliver.cgi?ask-1364 *** A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] WACO BOMB Update
Title: Waco Holocaust Electronic Museum: Fire Waco Holocaust Electronic Museum:FireCatalogue of EvidenceFireball over Mt. Carmel Center on April 19, 1993 (Time Magazine, May 3, 1993). Military experts say this explosive phenomena is characteristic of Special Ops demolitions, effected by detonating 55-gallon drums of jet fuel. The Justice Department Report makes no mention of this fireball (see section The Fire, pgs. 295-304). Fire is so efficient at erasing things, it is very popular as a means of hiding the evidence of murder . . . --Douglas Ubelaker, Curator of Anthropology, Smithsonian Institute, top consultant to the FBI in Waco, quoted in Bones, A Forensic Detective's Casebook,pgs. 140-141. September 5, 1999--A magician focuses the attention of the audience by twirling the hat in his right hand. His audience is so distracted by the hat, they do not notice his left hand, in plain sight, performing the magic trick. That is what is happening now in the new revelations about the inferno that engulfed the Mt. Camel Center in Waco, Texas on April 19, 1993. Whatever you do, don't look at the fire! says the magician. Look here instead, at the debate over pyrotechnic tear gas canisters! We look. Outrageous, we say. Look, the FBI was only trying to get the Davidians to come out, but they used the wrong canisters and caused this huge house fire . . . And the magician gets away with the trick, yet again. Ever since April 19, 1993, the US has presented the fire at the Mt. Carmel Center as one BIG house fire. Various explanations for the fire were given. Cover story Number One: The Davidians set their own house on fire. Not everybody believed it. Then we heard cover stories 2.0 and 2.5, the Mrs. Murphy and cow explanations: Tanks knocked over kerosene lamps inside Mt. Carmel, the kerosene spilled onto the hay, the hay caught fire and set the house on fire. That story did not sell too well, either. There never was a satisfactory explanation of why the Davidians -- Bible students -- kept hay in their house. Many members of the public smelled bull. All of these explanations, and now the current ones, are designed to deflect the public's attention from the obvious truth. The Mt. Carmel inferno was not a house fire. It was started deliberately by the US military, the Special Operations Command, to cover its murders of the Branch Davidians. The fire at the Mt. Carmel Center was a Special Operations demolition fire, and it was fueled by petroleum. Let's have a look at the evidenceHere are some pictures of the ruins: US News and World Report, May 3, 1993: Aerial view of the Mt. Carmel ruins Chicago Tribune, April 21, 1993: Aerial view of the Mt. Carmel ruins Newsweek, May 3, 1993: Aerial view of the Mt. Carmel ruins Notice that we can not see even the skeleton of the house. The fire lasted 40-45 minutes. It burned with extraordinary intensity. No beams. No rafters. Nada. Nothing. This was no ordinary house fire. Now let's have a closer look at the Mt. Carmel Center before the fire, and note its architectural features. Take a viewpoint facing the front of the building. Notice that the three story residential tower in the center of the structure; notice that immediately behind that tower and to the left there is empty space and a swimming pool. To the right there is a gymnasium. US News/World Report, May 3, 1993: Model of Mt. Carmel on final day Chicago Tribune, April 21: Diagram of Mt. Carmel site before the fire Newsweek, May 3, 1993: Diagram of Mt. Carmel Center Treasury Report: Mt. Carmel before raid Now look at this picture of the Mt. Carmel Center during the inferno, and notice that this empty space and swimming pool area immediately behind and to the left of the three story tower is aflame. Newsweek, May 17, 1993: Aerial view of the fire Newsweek, May 3, 1993: Ground level view of the fire Newsweek, May 3, 1993: Ground level view of the fire (later photo) Soldier of Fortune, July, 1993: Ground level view of the fire Time, May 3, 1993: Ground level view of the fire Time, May 3, 1993: Ground level view of the fire (reduced image of above) Notice the height of those flames! Such magic! Surely only the most gifted magician could get empty space to burn like that! But, no, Josephine. Swimming pools and bare ground don't burn unless someone applies a flammable agent. Now go through those photos again and look at the color of the smoke. Yes, the smoke--all of it -is pitch black. Even the smoke coming from the burning, empty ground immediately behind and to the left of the three story tower . . . Black smoke is characteristic of a petroleum fire. Click on a page in oil-well fire fighter Red Adiar's web page: http://www.redadair.com/thriller.html Kuwait was stripped and set on fire by the retreating Iraqi troops during the final days of the Gulf War. Black smoke filled the sky . . . Read
Re: [CTRL] Waco: Govt Set Fire
-Caveat Lector- .. Forwarded from the New Paradigms Project [Not Necessarily Endorsed]: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Waco: Govt Set Fire Date: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 9:06 PM Last week at http://www.dallasnews.com/specials/waco/: U.S. switches course, agrees to Waco test The Justice Department has reversed course and agreed to a test that could help determine whether federal personnel shot at the Branch Davidian compound at the end of the deadly 1993 standoff, according to a Wednesday letter detailing the agreement. [...] The agreement capped three weeks of negotiations with senior Justice Department and FBI officials, and it came after the special counsel office learned that the exact infrared camera needed for the test still exists and could be borrowed from another country, the letter to U.S. District Judge Walter Smith indicated. Mr. Dowd said all sides in the case hope to complete the infrared field tests by mid-March to allow at least two months before the start of a wrongful-death trial against the federal government in Waco. This is good news and hopefully will go a long way towards shedding light on what actually happened on that day. Hal Forwarded for info and discussion from the New Paradigms Discussion List, not necessarily endorsed by: *** Lloyd Miller, Research Director for A-albionic Research (POB 20273, Ferndale, MI 48220), a ruling class/conspiracy research resource for the entire political-ideological spectrum. Quarterly journal, book sales, rare/out-of-print searches, New Paradigms Discussion List, Weekly Up-date Lists E-text Archive of research, intelligence, catalogs, resources. To Discuss Ideas: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://msen.com/~lloyd/ For Ordering Info Free Catalog: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://a-albionic.com/formaddress.html For Discussion List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] text in body: subscribe prj [EMAIL PROTECTED] **FREE RARE BOOK SEARCH: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** Explore Our Archive: http://a-albionic.com/a-albionic.html Every Diet Has Failed! What Can I do? Click Below to "Ask Dr. Kathleen"! http://www.radiantdiet.com/cgi-bin/slim/deliver.cgi?ask-1364 *** DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco Author Speaks
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 10/24/1999 11:47:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This woman is either the second smoothest liar in our government today, or she is the stupidest Attorney General in the history of the world. No, it's impossible to figure out. I've been trying for years now, and I can't make up my mind. Either way, it's what we're stuck with, because Clinton would have to appoint Meese (who was both a liar and a crook - perhaps even stupid) in order to have his appointment approved by Congress. Even Reno is better than that. Prudy DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] WACO: Evidence Shouts BOMB!
-Caveat Lector- After examination of the Waco crime scene, Gordon Novel, an investigator in the civil suit against the Federal Government for wrongful death, came to the shocking conclusion that a bomb had been exploded on the top of the concrete room wherein forty one women and children died. Novel's conclusion has been corroborated by independent experts, including Brigadier General Benton Partin. I still haven't been able to learn whether this is the same Gordon Novel involved in the JFK (Sr.) assassination. Does anyone know? Linda Minor DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco post
-Caveat Lector- And since when would these agencies be the proper ones to be dealing with child abuse in the first place! I do not think that would fall under the jurisdiction of BATF and Delta Force even IF it had been occurring. Amelia - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 24, 1999 8:21 PM Subject: [CTRL] Waco post -Caveat Lector- From alt.conspiracy, WACO and the Child abuse allegations. Enjoy, or not. Subject: Post of FINAL evidence against WACO Child Abuse, End of Premise From: "James Perkins" A HREF="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"[EMAIL PROTECTED]/A Date: Fri, 24 September 1999 02:01 PM EDT Message-id: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: No more crap about child abuse - End of argument for Fed supporters Date: 1999/09/19 Author: James Perkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] From the St. Louis "Post Dispatch" Full article at: A HREF="http://www.post-dispatch.com/postnet/stories.nsf/ByDocID/2076417F10B35 AD A862"http://www.post-dispatch.com/postnet/stories.nsf/ByDocID/2076417F10B35 AD A862/A 567F1003C8CD7?OpenDocument "The nation already knows that there was some poor judgment. Officials of the FBI and Justice Department have acknowledged as much. The FBI has admitted that some of its tactics, like broadcasting loud noises, were ill-conceived. It has admitted that it did not have new evidence of child abuse at the time it used child-abuse allegations to persuade Attorney General Janet Reno to authorize the assault on the compound. And the FBI has belatedly admitted that it fired pyrotechnic tear gas at a bunker on the morning of the assault, even though Reno had denied for years that flammable tear gas was used." So, the next time anyone (especially familyvalues) wants to throw this argument up as a shield for the Fed, "Just Say NO". James Perkins DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco post
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 9/27/99 7:25:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And since when would these agencies be the proper ones to be dealing with child abuse in the first place! I do not think that would fall under the jurisdiction of BATF and Delta Force even IF it had been occurring. Amelia Of course you are correct. It was merely further last minute attempts by the government to throw suspicion off of them and onto the Davidians. There would be absolutely no justification for the BATF to be involved in cases of child molestation, etc. It was a propaganda device solely to throw the accusing finger back pointing at the "nefarious" BD's, and off of the saintly BATF who were just there "to save the children", after all. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] WACO poll
-Caveat Lector- Try "all of the above"... Will we ever know the absolute truth about what happened at Waco? I seriously doubt it... The case has become too politicized and mythologized for anyone to determine exactly what took place. One thing is clear to me, however: there was much blame on both sides. David Koresh was not exactly an innocent victim of government oppression. The ATF and the FBI screwed up badly in dealing with him; meddling, spin-adjusting, and ass-covering by the White House and DOJ compounded the problem. If military elements actually were involved, as is now alleged, someone badly misread the Constitution. But if it hadn't been this time, Koresh and the Davidians would have created another opportunity for violent death in the expectation that this would bring on the Second Coming. -Original Message- From: Bard [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 20, 1999 10:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [CTRL] WACO poll -Caveat Lector- Daily Poll Who's to blame for the 1993 Waco tragedy? The ATF The FBI David Koresh Janet Reno The White House DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] WACO poll
-Caveat Lector- - Original Message - From: Bard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Daily Poll Who's to blame for the 1993 Waco tragedy? The ATF The FBI David Koresh Janet Reno The White House You failed to list Bush (any of'em), MI5, Bilderbergers, Unification Church / KCIA, Zionists, Bill Gates, Scientology, MENSA, or any of a number of other likely suspects. Why is the poll so skewed? DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco: Who Watches The Watchers?
-Caveat Lector- Original Message Follows From: William Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have no idea why Janet Reno, Louis Freeh and the FBI didn't learn those lessons in Waco. .. That's an easy one. The lesson they have learned is that such things are gotten away with quite often. Consider all of the scandals these people have been involved in and then count how many times they have actually been taken to task. If you do you will see that they get away with all kinds of ATROCITIES with regularity. __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Hurricane Evacuations (was: RE: [CTRL] Waco and the Press)
-Caveat Lector- Riiight. All day yesterday, while stuck at home, I kept the Disney channel (not that one, the other one--oh yeah, "ABC"...) on with the sound off. The storm itself turned out to be not really any worse than half-a-dozen others I've seen over the years; we just didn't have instant 24/7 coverage of every little detail before. What bothered me was that evacuation. All I could think was, "What are they practicing for?" Let's see...biowar? global warming? nuclear terrorism? population resettlement? ABC reported that within a decade, *one-half* of the U.S. population will live in coastal counties. Granted, they didn't define "coastal county," but when you stop to think that New Jersey is the most densely-populated state in the Union, and that *all* of its counties could probably count as "coastal" (within a two-hour drive of the shore)...and then add in California, Florida, and East Texas... If the predictions are correct, hurricane activity is going to increase and become more violent (we're already seeing the *fourth* Category 4 hurricane in the past month)... And I keep hearing people saying that the next time they're going to stay put rather than evacuate, because this time was such a mess. Recipe for...what?? -Original Message- From: Sno0wl [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, September 16, 1999 11:55 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] Waco and the Press snip The scariest thing about Hurricane Floyd is the massive evacuation. And the way it was going, it looked like the mass of those folks in cars could get caught on the road by the stormnot exactly a very safe place to be. I mean, all those folks from Florida headed North toward the Carolinas where the brunt of the storm was going to hit? snip DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco and the Press
-Caveat Lector- On 16 Sep 99, , Sean wrote: Here's Ted Koppel, the night of September l, discussing the siezure by federal marshals of tapes of FBI hostage "negotiators", discussing the use of pyrotechnic grenades the morning of the Waco raid: "... the credibility of the FBI, which probably did tell the truth about most of what happened, that credibility is badly damaged, while the credibility of conspiracy theorists, who tend to be wrong about most of what they've spun together about Waco, their credibility is newly enhanced. It is on these two fronts that the greatest damage has been done." It's so absolutely creepy--this business you pinpoint here. There's a part of me that wants to believe that our media and journalists are good guys, out there going after the truthnot merely government stooges corrupted by the bucks. Which they clearly are. Also, of course, if you do watch the news, you are made aware that you live in a totally schizophrenic reality--split between what the media tells you and what is really going on...even if the "truth" may sometimes be somewhere inbetween. The scariest thing about Hurricane Floyd is the massive evacuation. And the way it was going, it looked like the mass of those folks in cars could get caught on the road by the stormnot exactly a very safe place to be. I mean, all those folks from Florida headed North toward the Carolinas where the brunt of the storm was going to hit? This newest mad shooter in a Baptist church--if it is not a "lone nut gunman"--seems calculated to make people fearful of any type of congregationin school, in church, in day camp, at the mall, at the supermarket, on the freeway--you name it. Going out of your house can get you killed...Being with other people in any sort of group situation will more and more be experienced as a threat. And many will become more and more isolated thanks to fear. A nation of agoraphobics? I wonder what the majority of the US population thinks about the news media? After all, the GOP and moneyed elite who is paying for and creating this dog and pony show is a very small percent of the total population. It would be interesting to think that we are a nation of "conspiracy nuts." sno0wl DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco and the Press
-Caveat Lector- --- Sno0wl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It would be interesting to think that we are a nation of "conspiracy nuts." Perhaps if more of us WERE "conspiracy nuts" we could expose and stop the conspiracy! __ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco tear-gas data was disclosed in '95, Democrat says
-Caveat Lector- lovely...what could have been an issue uniting people behind the realization that our government is corrupt beyond nausea is instead going to divide people because democrats and republicans [good cop and bad cop] are going to distract with a conservative vs. liberal media blitz. most democrats are going to flock to janet's rescue and most republicans are gonna light torches and head out in mobs into the night. divide and conquer: an art or a science? Original Message Follows From: Bard [EMAIL PROTECTED] "It's unfortunate that Waxman has decided to turn what up to now has been a nonpolitical issue into a partisan issue," said Mark Corallo, a spokesman for Mr. Burton. __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco: The Rules of Engagement documentary or hoax?
-Caveat Lector- In the Rules of Engagement, there is a moment where an ATF agent can be seen on the roof of the complex, just outside a window. I have seen other versions of this moment and one thing I can tell everyone is that in the Rules of Engagement, the piece is cut JUST BEFORE an ATF agent pumps him full of bullets. Yes, I am telling you that a BATF agent shot a BATF agent and it was CENSORED from the Rules of Engagement. Original Message Follows From: Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] If so, your suspicions are well founded. "Waco: The Rules of Engagement," the much ballyhooed "documentary" on Waco, is a hoax. WTROE is an effort to misdirect protest over Waco while pretending to be a protest piece. WTROE hides the most damaging truths and directs attention to false issues. __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco: The Rules of Engagement documentary or hoax?
-Caveat Lector- Has anybody else you know seen this edited part? Very explosive footage, how did you come to see it? What happened to it? Gavin. In the Rules of Engagement, there is a moment where an ATF agent can be seen on the roof of the complex, just outside a window. I have seen other versions of this moment and one thing I can tell everyone is that in the Rules of Engagement, the piece is cut JUST BEFORE an ATF agent pumps him full of bullets. Yes, I am telling you that a BATF agent shot a BATF agent and it was CENSORED from the Rules of Engagement. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] WACO
-Caveat Lector- SEE Committee on the Judiciary, EVENTS SURROUNDING THE BRANCH DAVIDIAN CULT STANDOFF IN WACO TEXAS APRIL 28 1993 On page 31 Sensenbrenner questions Reno. It reads as if Associate Attorney General Designate Hubbell was the link between White House and Command Center at DOJ. Hubbell was the DOJ man at the Command Center.and talking to the WH and Clinton.. Yet Hubbell had no official position, he was "designate", had not been confirmed and therefor had no legitimate reason to be in the Command Center. Hubbell was not called by the Committee Another interesting fact ( page 165)... On March 22 Presidential Candidate Clinton passed within 1 1/2 miles of the Mt Carmel Compound. If the compound was haven for dangerous criminals with heavy weapons (witha range over 3000 meters) what was the Secret Service doing ? They allowed Clinton to come within shooting range of weapons they allege to be in the Koresh arsenal.. Is it Secret Service policy to allow candidates within shooting range of dangerous people? We doubt it . Mpre likely Koresh was not really a threat. the threat was a fantasy invented by BATF. ASU DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco...the beginning
-Caveat Lector- Waco is not far from here and right from the start we were told by the local media that the FBI feared suicide by fire for those in the compound. This fear was stated many times by different area reporters. In a murder you must ask the question...who gained? Who would benefit from the murder of David Koresh? He claimed to be Christ. He claimed Messiah. So who would be interested in seeing him and his followers dead? The Illuminati (Priory of Sion)? DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco...the beginning
-Caveat Lector- - Original Message - From: C Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a murder you must ask the question...who gained? Who would benefit from the murder of David Koresh? He claimed to be Christ. He claimed Messiah. So David Koresh, from what I know, never claimed to be the God, "creator of the universe." He claimed to be a Christ-like figure, a TOOL of God, one of many. The 2-second video clip at the time period of him saying "I am God" was taken completely out of context from within which those words were uttered. More than less Koresh claimed his role with the group was one of a teacher and of a tool, or "lamb" used by God - in other words, he never really claimed anything past being the leader of a church. -- Dan S DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco Massacre!
-Caveat Lector- The Delta symbol and the Delta Force have surprising implications. --SW) The Delta symbol is very interesting. I have seen the emblems on the bumper stickers of certain vehicles in certain areas, hehe... --SW) --- Forwarded Message Follows --- From: J Kinsley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:[illusions] SNET: [piml] Waco Massacre! Date sent: 6 Sep 1999 22:24:00 -0400 Organization: BTICC.Net To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -= Illusions Mailing List [ This is a repost of the following article: ] [ From: "Bob Germann" [EMAIL PROTECTED] ] [ Subject: SNET: [piml] Waco Massacre! ] [ Newsgroups: lists.snetnews ] [ Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ] - SNETNEWS Mailing List X DRUDGE REPORT X MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 06, 1999 21:30:00 ET X GOVERNMENT INFORMANT: DELTA FORCE INVOLVED IN WACO SHOOT-OUT **World Exclusive** **Must Credit DRUDGE REPORT** WASHINGTON -- A former government officer has told investigators that members of the secret Army unit Delta Force said they participated in a shoot-out during the final assault on the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned. The witness, according to congressional sources, has already named names -- and will soon offer his account under oath! The development caused panic and confusion at the top levels of the Justice Department and the FBI over the holiday weekend, leaving one top official scrambling for details. FBI Director Freeh has demanded a full briefing, one agency source divulged late Monday. Developing... Meanwhile, congressional investigators are growing convinced that infrared film taken by an FBI surveillance aircraft at 9,000 feet on the final day of the Waco standoff does appear to show U.S. armed forces firing into the church compound. "We are looking at the footage frame-by-frame... most of us have grown convinced that it does show snipers unloading from the rear of a tank," an investigator for the House Government Reform Committee told the DRUDGE REPORT. Former FBI agent Richard Schwein, a supervisor at Waco, said charges of government gunfire were "absolutely false." "False, absolutely false," he said on FOX NEWS SUNDAY. "No FBI agent fired any rounds from their weapons at Waco. There were no Delta Forces or special operations soldiers in an operational capacity at Waco. "And everyone on our side, and the FBI's side, were in armored vehicles, so I don't know how you'd have films of anybody firing into the back of the building. No one was on foot, because we had no body armor that would stop the rounds they were firing." *** * Point your web browser to: * * INTERNET FREE AMERICA! * * A HREF="http://www.localnet.com/~bobg"* * HTTP://WWW.LOCALNET.COM/~BOBG/A * * Links to Christian, Patriotic,Militia and * * Information websites! Downloadable text files, * * Suppressed Information, E-mail lists, a free* * newsletter, the Gun Control Hall of Fame and the* * Outrage of the Week! Internet Free America is an* * information resource to assist loyal and patriotic * * Americans fight the coming New World Order. * *** Robert Germann MyPoints-Free Rewards When You're Online. Start with up to 150 Points for joining! http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/805 For subscription info, go to: http://www.egroups.com/list/piml - Send "subscribe snetnews " to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Posted by: "Bob Germann" [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -= Discuss the illusions of reality -= Illusions Mailing List - [EMAIL PROTECTED] -= http://www.beyond-the-illusion.com/mailman/listinfo/illusions/ Steve Wingate California Director SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL Anomalous Images and UFO Files http://www.anomalous-images.com DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
Re: [CTRL] WACO- THE BIG QUESTION
-Caveat Lector- ~ Love is the prism of life. ENJOY In Love and Light Tim [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ -Original Message- From: William Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, September 04, 1999 7:43 AM Subject: Re: [CTRL] WACO- THE BIG QUESTION -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 9/3/99 10:35:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: you seem to be so quick to condem, why is this are you afraid your government can not stand up to an open door investigation? Quick to condemn?? How many years has it been since the Waco barbecue?? Not quick to condemn here... I think the government ought to be scrutinized at every possible oppourtunity, but that doesn't make Waco a legitimate "conspiracy"... And what was Koresh's reason for not allowing an "open-door investigation"? Had he complied, and been so clean, he'd have been vindicated yes it has been 6 years since then and it is only now that the facts are coming out and are being viewed in daylight. the only reason that we are getting it now is because of the judge on the civil action. how is it possible for both the FBI, Justice Department, investigations by congress, and still not produce a small fraction of the information that will be released. so since we dont even have the all the facts yet, how can you belive what the media and all the representives of the government side? since they have lied to us in such a small way for so long, what other lies have not been discovered? since the credibility is important to law enforcement, who can trust anything that they have said and are saying? if we should trust what they say, then what do we base this trust on? can we trust them when they are willing to lie about small things; can we not assume that they wont also lie about the larger things? so when you have accepted the view that Koresh was a pediophile, you are also accepting everything that they say and any explainations that they are needing to make if need be. so on what do you base your trust in the government? if they had allowed the open door investigation, then they would have been assumed guity and had to prove thier innocence. last time i looked, that goes against the concept of innocent until proven guity. why should he have to prove his innocence? not to mention that by allowing the search there could have been the possible violation of the 5th admendment. once you allow the system to gain a power and the ability to exercise it, it is just a matter of time before the power will be used and once used it would be very difficult to take that power and ability away from that agency. so i hope you can see why there is such concern over this minor issue at Waco. it's just that the Waco stiuation is a major turning point for our country. if this turns out as bad as i expect it to be, and we allow it to go unanswered, then the America that i was born and raised in wil no longer exsist at this time. so excuse me if i am passionate about this issue. it is the big picture that is important. with this having been six years ago, what other operations have gone on with little or no reporting due to the assurances of the government that it was of little importance? btw did you know that one of the components of CS gas is Cyanide? pretty strong tear gas, you think? with the concentrations that must have been hell on those kids. with prayers of only the best for all that are involve in what is and will happen. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout
Re: [CTRL] Waco Humor
-Caveat Lector- Oh yuk! DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco Humor
-Caveat Lector- Oh yuk! Sounds like something the folks around the FBI and ATF generated. Prudy DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco Humor
-Caveat Lector- And he calls Koresh perverted? -- From: William Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [CTRL] Waco Humor Date: Mon, Sep 6, 1999, 3:06 PM -Caveat Lector- Q: How many Branch Davidians does it take to change a lightbulb? A: None, BD's use natural lighting. Q: How many BDs can you fit in the back of a Volkswagon? A: All of them, right now. The ones who left are wimps, and don't count. Q: Whats the heat capacity of a BD?A: Not high enough, apparently. Bonus Question: Is a BD at constant volume, constant pressure, both, or neither? A: They are sensitive to pressure and too tightly wrapped. So, constant volume. The final volume change is considered chaotic, and not indicative of their normal state. I have considered it to be instantaneous. Hot off the timbers, a receipe for Davidian Flambe'Ingredients: 1 Davidian (preferably young) 1 gallon of lantern fluid (Coleman is the best, cleaner burning) 1 large wood frame house1 match100 Cubic Feet of CS gas 30 Knot Southern breeze100 Gallons of waterPrep: Marinate Davidian in CS for about 6 hours(add more CS as needed)Cooking: Remove Davidian from marinade and reserve liquid Pour 3 and 3/4 quarts of lantern fliud on frame of house Pour remainder on DavidianLight match and apply to house Allow to cook for 30 minutes. Or until well charred on outside meat should be blackened and falling of the bone. Put out flames with water Scoop 1 cup of water off charred section of floor Add CS marinade to water to make 2 cups of gravy Remove charred Davidian and cover with gravySalt and pepper to taste Serving suggestion:serve with a side of asparegus and Hollandaise Bon Appetit' Q: Why don't we have more prophets like David Koresh? A: It's such a high stress job that burnout is almost inevitable. Q: How can we avoid future tragedies like the Waco conflagration? A: Strict OSHA standards requring automatic sprinkler systems for all cult compounds that accomodate 50 or more fanatics. How do you pick up a Branch Dividian chick?With a dust buster. What is the new Branch Davidian holiday?Ash Monday. What do David KorASH and Jesus Christ have in common?They are both dead. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substanceónot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] WACO- THE BIG QUESTION
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 9/3/99 10:35:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: so you admit that our government has declared war upon the people it is sworn to protect? interesting. Uhh, no. Where do I admit this?? so you are willing to belive the party line without looking at it through the prism of logic? No, I believe that in this case Koresh and Co. have become a useful, though misguided, symbol for anti-government extremists to rally behind. I'm very openminded, but neither blind nor stupid. you seem to be so quick to condem, why is this are you afraid your government can not stand up to an open door investigation? Quick to condemn?? How many years has it been since the Waco barbecue?? Not quick to condemn here... I think the government ought to be scrutinized at every possible oppourtunity, but that doesn't make Waco a legitimate "conspiracy"... And what was Koresh's reason for not allowing an "open-door investigation"? Had he complied, and been so clean, he'd have been vindicated Bill. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] WACO- THE BIG QUESTION (Time For The Truth)
-Caveat Lector- From: William Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Koresh WAS a pedophile, no question about that, Actually, there's a very BIG question about that allegation...it was thoroughly investigated by the State of Texas before the feds got involved, and all the charges were deemed without basis... It was shortly after Texas made that decision that the feds decided to get involved but WHY didn't he and the rest of his "Branch DavIdiots" comply with the fed's??? Why should they? I suggest you read the Bill of Rights... Why barricade yourself inside a "compound" They weren't 'barricaded' until the feds decided to illegally invade... If any of us refused a lawful request WAS it lawful? If everything was so legit (not his offspring though) why not air these things in public??? Get a copy of the December 1993 issue of Bible Review...in it, the editors of the magazine have an article detailing their attempts to talk to Koresh, and hear what he had to say...at first, the feds welcomed their help, but after Clinton took office, the editors of BR found the feds less and less willing to listen to them, finally revealing that the feds completely ignored their recommendations to hold off, at least until after Passover and Easter...when Koresh was supposed to have his final treatise finished...for some reason the feds seemed intent on NOT having whatever Koresh wrote in that be let out to the public (Koresh was going to release it to the editors of BY for publication) The article is very critical of the feds, and the way they handled the situation... There has been a document that has circulated on the Internet purporting to be Koresh's last document, his interpretation of the Seventh Seal... but according to the editors of BR, the feds grabbed this diskette when it was attempted to be snuck out of the compound, and apparantly they've never let it go...so I suspect that the document that has circulated onthe Internet is either a forgery, or a 3rd party's guess as to what Koresh put in there... In a court where reporters would be there, maybe even CourtTV! Which wasn't in existence, or at least in a very limited market, in 1993. You believe everything you see on TV? Especially orchestrated televised courtroom melodramas, where every action and statement is later interpreted for us by the blowdried blowhards who know who butters their bread? June ;-) *===* If we listened to our intellect, we'd never have a love affair. We'd never have a friendship. We'd never go into business, because we'd be cynical. Well, that's nonsense. You've got to jump off cliffs all the time and build your wings on the way down. ---Ray Bradbury *===* *---* revcoal AT connix DOT com *---* It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227. I assess a fee of $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial email. Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these terms. My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email. ** DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] WACO Spin
-Caveat Lector- Original Message Follows From: William Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] You want WACO SPIN??? How about Koresh was a pedophile, a Christian KOOK, and a fella' who REFUSED a lawful inquiry... let us not deify this douche-bag...he's not worthy! --I responded: sounds personaleither you had a hands on role in the case, or you knew Koresh personally, or you are spewing cow puckey. which is it? -- William Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] said [in a personal email not sent to the list]: It's no more personal than those who choose to deify the guy. No role in the case, didn't know the kook...as for spewing "cow puckey", if giving educated opinion qualifies...I guess so...I wonder though, is it only "cow puckey" when YOU don't agree with the stated opinion? -- I say: I believe that questions remain unanswered. With the FBI's stance being constantly contradicted by the evidence, often forcing them to pubicly backtrack, something smells fishy. I have not made up my mind because so many questions remain unanswered. YOU, on the other hand, don't seem to need this multitude of questions answered in order to KNOW that everything the FBI has said on this case just HAS to be true. I do not purport to know what happened. YOU do. So unless you had a hands on role in the case [in which case I urge you to share what you know], you either knew Koresh and have something personal against him [in which case I urge you to share what you know] or you are spewing python poopoo. So which is it? __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] WACO- THE BIG QUESTION
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 09/02/1999 11:08:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Koresh WAS a pedophile, no question about that, I don't know if there is any proof of that anywhere, although I heard it bruted about a good deal. Where is the proof published? Prudy DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco Spin
-Caveat Lector- What is a lawful inquiry? Does it have anything to do with this? All the State Codes are exactly what their titles indicate them to be: codes. They are written by and for those of the ruling system, in the system's language, with loaded meanings, for self-serving and fraudulent purposes. All federal and state courts are private commercial bankruptcy tribunals collecting from the citizens (assets) to pay on the Chapter 11 reorganization brought about by bankrupting the US through the paper-money banking-swindle. Codes are the private "law" used in the bankruptcy tribunals. As codes, they must be deciphered, which is the function of special decoders called "attorneys." who write the codes (all of which, in the US, are copyrighted private law owned by foreign corporations, mostly British, such as Lord Thompson of the Thompson Group, Montreal) and are the only persons authorized to cross the bar and "practice" the private commercial maze of deliberate deceit falsely called "law." ... Sean McDougal wrote: -Caveat Lector- Original Message Follows From: William Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] You want WACO SPIN??? How about Koresh was a pedophile, a Christian KOOK, and a fella' who REFUSED a lawful inquiry... let us not deify this douche-bag...he's not worthy! -- sounds personaleither you had a hands on role in the case, or you knew Koresh personally, or you are spewing cow puckey. which is it? __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] WACO- THE BIG QUESTION (Time For The Truth)
-Caveat Lector-
From: William Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: WACO- THE BIG QUESTION
Koresh WAS a pedophile, no question about that, but WHY didn't he and the
rest of his "Branch DavIdiots" comply with the fed's???
Why barricade yourself inside a "compound"
If any of us refused a lawful request and instead holed up in our homes
(or
compounds, if we're "landed" enough) we'd be run through too...big shock!
If everything was so legit (not his offspring though) why not air these
things in public??? In a court where reporters would be there, maybe even
CourtTV!
Bill.
The above reads like Janet Reno's vodka induced babblings.
The truth is that the ATF staged a budget enhancing media event.
The truth is that the ATF shot first and asked questions later.
The truth is that within the first 2 minutes of the unprovoked shooting
attack of the Waco Church, Koresh had been gut shot through the front door
(which conveniently "disappeared" after the raid) and his 6 week old baby
had
been shot in the head by the ATF.(Kinda discourages one from peacefully
surrendering and having much confidence in getting "your day in court."
The truth is "pedophile" Koresh had several teenage "brides" (like
religious
leaders tend to do from Isreal to China (and Mormons). Hardly the reason to
murder 80 men, women and children. {Yeah, lets burn the "abused" children
alive,
in order to protect them from Koresh).
The truth is that the murders of the women and children commenced when the
tanks began smashing the flimsly plywood building down on top of them and
squashing their bodies by repeatedly rolling over them - even before the
fire was
started by the FBI "flashbang" grenades setting off the propane tank at the
point
of origin.
flw
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==
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screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
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Re: [CTRL] Waco, Vince Foster, and the Secret War 1/2
-Caveat Lector- Waco, Vince Foster, and the Secret War 1/2 Copyright 1999 Mack White An after-thought: Recently, Rumor Mill News reported that the past few weeks' revelations with regard to Waco (evidence of the FBI's firing of incendiary devices, involvement of Delta Force, etc.) in the mainstream media were the result of factional fighting at the highest levels of power. According to this theory, the Bush family has been moving away from the New World Order faction. Allegations with regard to Gov. George W. Bush's cocaine usage are supposedly pressure tactics to bring the Bush family back into the New World Order fold. However, Bush's counter-move has been to reveal information on Waco, which would be damaging to the Clinton/New World Order faction. This is an interesting possiblity, which, if true, would seem to corroborate the theory in my article that Waco represented the surface eruption of a covert civil war. It will be interesting to see what develops in the weeks ahead. Mack White DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco Spin
-Caveat Lector- On 3 Sep 99, at 20:41, William Shannon wrote: -Caveat Lector- You want WACO SPIN??? How about Koresh was a pedophile, a Christian KOOK, and a fella' who REFUSED a lawful inquiry...Some spin!! Had this short-eyed christer simply COMPLIED with the request of the people none of this would have happened...PERIOD! Yes, it's a shame that Koresh SACRIFICED his spawn for no good reason...but let us not deify this douche-bag...he's not worthy! Bill. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. == == Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ == == To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om Text book example of hate speech. Pay your electric bill in pennies. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] WACO- THE BIG QUESTION
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 9/2/99 7:06:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Koresh WAS a pedophile, no question about that, but WHY didn't he and the rest of his "Branch DavIdiots" comply with the fed's??? Why barricade yourself inside a "compound" If any of us refused a lawful request and instead holed up in our homes (or compounds, if we're "landed" enough) we'd be run through too...big shock! If everything was so legit (not his offspring though) why not air these things in public??? In a court where reporters would be there, maybe even CourtTV! 'Tis REALLY hard to give a about a pedophile who seems to have been breaking other laws too!!! And PRUDY, you're correct, the kids DIDN'T deserve their fate...blame their daddy and screwed up mommies though... Bill. There is no doubt that the man was deluded but I've seen little evidence that makes him a pedophile. All I have heard on the matter is conjecture, nothing more. Same goes for the gun dealing some have alleged. Now as to why he should have just complied with the Fed's, one must ask oneself if he ever had the chance. It has been noted that the Fed's could have picked him up many times and charged him with God knows what, outside the compound and NO DOUBT the rest would have capitulated without a fight (with no leader). Why didn't the government do that? Maybe it is because they WANTED a bloody showdown, knowing (or suspecting) that Koresh was unstable and could do anything. The next point is that the Davidians were tipped to the Fed's approach by a law officer I think. This was probably done by the Fed's themselves to instigate fear. Now what do you suppose that man said to the people at the "compound"? Probably something like; "Dave, they got a WHOLE SHITLOAD of weapons and agents AND THEY MEAN SOME SERIOUS BUSINESS. They are ready to CRUSH you." Now having heard that is it possible that Koresh, quite rightly, feared for his life and those of the other members of the "cult," because with so much firepower they could only mean to storm the place and kill them. That could be why he chose to fight, until the media came and had an eye on it. But hey! Guess what? The media was kept miles away so that nothing done could be observed, and the Fed's could do as they please. Mind you I'm not defending Koresh or his twisted beliefs (though he had a right to have them), and especially not endorsing his behavior IF there was any pedophilia going on. This is more along the lines of excoriating the FASCIST THUGS in the Federal Law Enforcement Agencies. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] WACO- THE BIG QUESTION
-Caveat Lector- -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, September 03, 1999 11:08 PM Subject: Re: [CTRL] WACO- THE BIG QUESTION -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 9/2/99 7:06:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Koresh WAS a pedophile, no question about that, but WHY didn't he and the rest of his "Branch DavIdiots" comply with the fed's??? Why barricade yourself inside a "compound" If any of us refused a lawful request and instead holed up in our homes (or compounds, if we're "landed" enough) we'd be run through too...big shock! so you admit that our government has declared war upon the people it is sworn to protect? interesting. If everything was so legit (not his offspring though) why not air these things in public??? In a court where reporters would be there, maybe even CourtTV! 'Tis REALLY hard to give a about a pedophile who seems to have been breaking other laws too!!! And PRUDY, you're correct, the kids DIDN'T deserve their fate...blame their daddy and screwed up mommies though... so you are willing to belive the party line without looking at it through the prism of logic? these crimes he is stated as having broken have not been proved. unfortunately, the childern are dead so we can only go by the report that was filed by the Waco Childerns Protective Service, which found no evidence of pedophiliai. so that is another lie that has been offered upon the scacrifical alter of Waco. you seem to be so quick to condem, why is this are you afraid your government can not stand up to an open door investigation? if so you must be awfully insecure. i will pray for you and your loved ones that you dont find out first hand. ~ In Love and Light I Am Tim [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unconditional Love is attainable for all that quest for it. ~ DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] WACO- THE BIG QUESTION
-Caveat Lector- -- From: William Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [CTRL] WACO- THE BIG QUESTION Date: Thu, Sep 2, 1999, 7:04 PM -Caveat Lector- Koresh WAS a pedophile, no question about that, but WHY didn't he and the rest of his "Branch DavIdiots" comply with the fed's??? There is a big question about whether or not he was a pedophile. What makes you think that he did not comply with the Feds? Have you seen the videos of the initial encounter with the ATF when Koresh met them at the door? Of course not, they claim that all three or four cameras malfunctioned and there is no evidence of what initially happened. I am sure that if those tapes had shown the ATF to have been serving the "knock" warrant in a lawful manner the cameras would not have "malfunctioned". And, your use of the term "Branch DavIdiots" shows that you are severally are greatly lacking in compassion or understanding. Why barricade yourself inside a "compound" Perhaps to protect yourself against people who are shooting at you. One of the Davidians (unarmed) was working on the water storage tower at the time and was shot. Koresh tried to meet the charging AFT outside the front door and was shot as tried to duck behind the door. The Davidians knew that the ATF was coming. If they wanted a fight, why didn't they shoot while they were crossing the open ground? Why did Koresh go outside? Why was there an unarmed man on the water tower? They did not expect the ATF to attack them. They had to protect themselves as best they could. If any of us refused a lawful request and instead holed up in our homes (or compounds, if we're "landed" enough) we'd be run through too...big shock! If everything was so legit (not his offspring though) why not air these things in public??? In a court where reporters would be there, maybe even CourtTV! It is easy to see why they would not trust the Feds after being shot at, murdered, lied to, etc. In addition, they were subjected to a constant barrage of loud music such as Nancy Sinatra's "These Boots are Meant for Walking", etc. Also, there was some sort of strange sound broadcast over the loudspeakers which seemed to have been designed for some sort of mind control. Also, everytime the negotiators would make some progress the FBI would do something like crush their cars with tanks, etc. Have you read any of the books on Waco by Reaves and others who were there? It is obvious from even a cursory study that someone did not want them to come out alive. My understanding is that after the initial gas attack on April 19th that the Davidian put out white flags and asked that their telephone be hooked up so that they could communicate with the FBI negotiators, but this was ignored. As for the court with reporters and TV. Are you dreaming? No Federal judge would have allowed a TV into that court. And other more important things would have come up which would have made any reporting on the case practically disapear. The day that the remaining Davidian were sentenced was the day the OJ made his famous express way drive. I am sure that they could have found something else for a trial. 'Tis REALLY hard to give a about a pedophile who seems to have been breaking other laws too!!! And PRUDY, you're correct, the kids DIDN'T deserve their fate...blame their daddy and screwed up mommies though... Again, despite the fact that the county investigated this charge twice and did not find it to have merit, you assume that it is true (it isn't even a federal offense). And, of course, if the ATF had wanted Koresh they could have picked him up while he jogged or went to lunch in town. Blame their screwed up parents. No, blame those who did the killings and those, like you, who hide themselves from the truth and let evil persist. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco: The Rules of Engagement-My Review
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 99-08-30 13:24:31 EDT, you write: Even this film has been edited to remove PARTICULARLY incriminating evidence, as applies to the BATF. I'm certain we didn't get the whole picture in the documentary, but it went a long way to proving that the BATF/FBI are the 90's equivelant of the Nazi brownshirts. Gavin. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco: The Rules of Engagement-My Review
-Caveat Lector- From: Gavin Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED] The tape was suppressed for a long time because the FBI feared it showed then in a totally different perspective than what the FBI wanted the public to see. Even this film has been edited to remove PARTICULARLY incriminating evidence, as applies to the BATF. __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco: The Rules of Engagement-My Review
-Caveat Lector- - Original Message - From: Gavin Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 30, 1999 11:28 AM Subject: Waco: The Rules of Engagement-My Review -Caveat Lector- I saw WTROE at a theatre in the films very limited distribution. Gavin. An excellent review and analysis of the Waco Atrocity. This should be mandatory reading for all the Waco Atrocity Deniers. flw DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 08/24/1999 8:41:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Still say Koresh and his Branch DavIDIOTS deserved their fate...eh, it's not like we lost the cure for cancer, just some fringe scumbags... We didn't lose the cure for cancer; we lost respect for our Government agencies. That's not even mentioning the seventeen kids who could not be blamed for anything. Prudy DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco
-Caveat Lector- William Shannon wrote: Still say Koresh and his Branch DavIDIOTS deserved their fate...eh, it's not like we lost the cure for cancer, just some fringe scumbags... That's EXACTLY what the psycho- Nazis said about the Jewish Holocaust. Now we can see where you're coming from! Is your ba'al appeased -- or are more Blood Sacrifices desired, to cleanse your world of other 'trash' ? Why not petition Janet Reno? You two should get along fine. Hell, what's a little butchery among fiends? . DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco
-Caveat Lector- When they came for the republicans, I didn't say anything because I wasn't a republican... William Shannon wrote: -Caveat Lector- Still say Koresh and his Branch DavIDIOTS deserved their fate...eh, it's not like we lost the cure for cancer, just some fringe scumbags... Report counters U.S. stand on Waco August 24, 1999 6:53 p.m. CDT DALLAS (AP) -- Contradicting years of denial from the U.S. government, a former FBI official said in today's Dallas Morning News that agents fired two pyrotechnic tear gas grenades into the Branch Davidian compound the day it erupted in a deadly inferno. However, Danny Coulson said the devices were fired hours before the blaze began on April 19, 1993, and were not to blame for the fire that consumed the compound with David Koresh and more than 80 followers inside. ``The fire did not start there. That's a lot of nothing,'' he said in today's Dallas Morning News. The issue of whether the FBI used pyrotechnic devices is a major focus of an ongoing inquiry by the Texas Rangers and a key allegation in a pending federal wrongful-death lawsuit filed against the government by surviving Davidians and families of those who died. The federal government consistently has disputed accusations that the FBI started the fire. Independent investigators concluded the fire began simultaneously in three separate places. FBI bugs recorded Davidians discussing spreading fuel and planning a fire hours before the compound burned. Arson investigators also found evidence that gasoline, charcoal lighter fluid and camp stove fuel had been poured inside the compound. Government officials have maintained the FBI used only nonflammable devices to get tear gas into the compound because of fears that pyrotechnic grenades might spark a fire in the wooden structure. The statement by Coulson, founding commander of the FBI's hostage rescue team and a deputy assistant FBI director at the time of the Waco incident, marks the first time any government official has publicly contradicted those claims, the News reported. On Monday, a spokesman with the U.S. Justice Department again denied that any pyrotechnic devices were used. ``We are aware of no evidence to support the notion that any pyrotechnic devices were used by the federal government on April 19,'' Justice Department spokesman Myron Marlin told the newspaper. ``We've said that all along.'' Copyright 1999 The Associated Press DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 8/24/99 9:26:51 PM GMT-5:00 - United States of Am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: When they came for the republicans, I didn't say anything because I wasn't a republican... William Shannon wrote: The government has failed to prove Dave Koresh harmed anyone! Just because someone thinks differently doesn't give government the right to destroy their lives! This is America! DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco
-Caveat Lector- -- From: William Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Still say Koresh and his Branch DavIDIOTS deserved their fate...eh, it's not like we lost the cure for cancer, just some fringe scumbags... Why? And how do you know that we did not lose the cure for cancer? There were over a dozen children killed in that fire. Why could not one of them have been the one to discover such a cure? Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] 'Waco' Producer: WACO Lesson unlearned (fwd)
-Caveat Lector- To anyone who has seen "Terms of Engagement" i strongly recommend it as one of the best documentary's i've ever seen. For what it's worth a few comments on Waco: Waco was not about religion, it was about non conformity. Branch Davidians were non conformist in terms of their religion. Nevertheless, the issue seems to be that modern western society is unable to deal with individuals who are different or espouse unconventional beliefs, whether religious, political or social. Any comments welcome. Paul At 06:37 20/04/99 -0400, you wrote: -Caveat Lector- -Original Message- From: Ian Goddard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 5:18 AM Subject: 'Waco' Producer: Lesson unlearned (fwd) = WorldNetDaily.com (APRIL 20, 1999) = 'Waco' producer: Lesson unlearned Public remains ambivalent after six years By Jon E. Dougherty (c) 1999 WorldNetDaily.com When producer Dan Gifford was making his documentary film, "Waco: The Rules of Engagement," two things never entered his mind. First, he didn't know the film -- hailed as one of the most complete documentaries of the April 19, 1993, incident -- would ever be nominated for an Academy Award. Second, he never thought the film would be met with such "bipartisan" ambivalence. Even now, six years after the incident, Gifford says the nation is no closer to understanding the causes and effects of what happened in Waco, and he believes that because of that lack of understanding it is likely such incidents will repeat themselves in the future. "Whether you're considered a left winger or a right winger, both sides share many of the same feelings about what happened there," Gifford said during an interview. "Both sides see the film as a major piece of propaganda, period." "People really haven't learned much of anything from it," he added. The Waco tragedy was sparked by an FBI-led assault on a religious group known as the Branch Davidians after a 51-day siege. David Koresh, who died in the ensuing firestorm that engulfed the entire community, headed the group, numbering 83 men, women and children. After the assault, many people asserted that the government intentionally planned, then botched, the raid on the Davidians, then attacked and killed them to cover up their initial mistake. Gifford was sufficiently curious by the accusations, so he set out to discover exactly what happened for himself. "Waco: The Rules of Engagement" was the result of his efforts, in which he concluded after making the film that the government attack theory was indeed correct. "The government set up to murder these people, no question about it," Gifford said. He compared it to ancient times, "when the Romans would follow believers of Jesus into the desert and kill them after they gathered to hear the prophecy." "Quite simply today, as it was then, most Americans seem frightened of people who espouse deep religious beliefs and convictions," he said. "In short, if you believe wholeheartedly in God, you're a crazy who 'ought to be killed,' according to many people who have spoken to me about the film." Gifford says the media and the government are largely responsible for that attitude, purposefully creating a daunting stereotype of Christians and practitioners of Judaism. "I'm not a church-goer myself," he said, "but I see this truth nonetheless." The film, which was edited for viewing on HBO, depicts never-before-seen videotaped accounts of what Gifford said were U.S. and British military special forces personnel "invited by the federal government to 'observe'" the handling of the situation. It also contains videotape shot by Davidians
Re: [CTRL] 'Waco' Producer: WACO Lesson unlearned (fwd)
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 04/20/1999 8:10:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Waco was not about religion, it was about non conformity. Branch Davidians were non conformist in terms of their religion. Nevertheless, the issue seems to be that modern western society is unable to deal with individuals who are different or espouse unconventional beliefs, whether religious, political or social. Absolutely right, and especially when you are considering how government beauracrats think. You could have an idea that would cure cancer, but it it didn't fit the form required, hang it up. Anyone who doesn't fit the current pattern is in deep trouble. It's kind of like living in a small town before WWII. Prudy DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] 'Waco' Producer: WACO Lesson unlearned (fwd)
-Caveat Lector- Waco was not about religion, it was about non conformity. Let's not forget the race angle. This was a multi-racial commune. I can't for the life of me grasp how racists of the Aryan/Identity type rationalize their much touted outrage over this incident. Were they ever to take power they'de do exactly the same thing to people like that. I also am fairly disgusted, though not really supprised, that the right cares not a fig for what happened to MOVE at Philadelphia and the left pretends that what happened at Waco was the fault of the so-called "cultists." The SAME thing happened to both groups. I am reminded of the opening line of Ceasar's account of how he managed to conquer Gaul. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] 'Waco' Producer: WACO Lesson unlearned (fwd)
-Caveat Lector- Paul Argent wrote: -Caveat Lector- To anyone who has seen "Terms of Engagement" i strongly recommend it as one of the best documentary's i've ever seen. For what it's worth a few comments on Waco: Waco was not about religion, it was about non conformity. Branch Davidians were non conformist in terms of their religion. Nevertheless, the issue seems to be that modern western society is unable to deal with individuals who are different or espouse unconventional beliefs, whether religious, political or social. Any comments welcome. It has also been suggested that a couple of the people there had expert abilities with computers and had tapped into information about the connections between government agencies and street gangs in LA. You will remember the ATF agents going into the window upstairs? That was where the computers were kept. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco video on HBO3 Sun. Dec. 6
-Caveat Lector- -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/2/98 10:02:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It's 86 murdered at Waco, not 186. I highly recommend the film. Gavin. Yes, it is a terrible thing that a charismatic pedophile and his sicko followers burned their own children to death rather than be served a subpoena. Jerry harp -- Did you know that 'gullible' is not in the dictionary? __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
