CS: Legal-gun trafficker sentenced
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > I was wondering what charge cannot be reported for legal reasons. The only thing that springs to mind is some sort of charge relating to Children or maybe the Official Secrets Act? Jonathan Laws Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Target-Gallery Rifle power limits
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >What I want is the formula so that I can work out if any of my >carbine loads exceed it. It would be nice if someone who understood the >formula could write it so I could plug it into Excel. the equation you need is KE in ft-lbs = 1/2 m * v^2 where m = mass in grains and v = velocity in feet/second You need to convert your bullet's weight to mass, and the Excel formula is: =0.5*(Weight_in_grains/(7000*32.16))*Velocity^2 --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Legal-Section 5(1)(b)
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >My understanding is that strictly speaking the Act only applies to barrelled >weapons discharging toxins. Not true. Section 5 prohibits "any weapon of whatever description designed or adapted for the discharge of any noxious liquid, gas or other thing; and ...". So it is immaterial whether there's a barrel or not. >Apparently a Jif lemon container full of ammonia >solution was not covered by Section 5. That's by case law (i.e. a judgement of the Courts of Appeal). The detergent container was neither designed for the discharge of a noxious liquid, nor was it adapted. So it fell outside the prohibition. >Come to think of it, is CS in an >aerosol spray covered? Is it designed or adapted for the discharge of a noxious liquid, gas or other thing? --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 -- Was that Jif lemon container employed as a weapon, though? Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-population density
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > By Terry Pendrous, > With such stringent controls in Japan--how > much criminal activity do they suffer with firearms? Anyone know?
CS: Target-Reloading Kit & Questions
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > And also views on fully automated presses/loading systems > eg Dillon RL 550B vs competitors equipment > > Or what to mix & match! > > I'm thinking calibers - .223/ .308/ .45-70(BP & Nitro) > .45LC .454 Casull > > EW Can't comment on the automatic presses as I've never been one to use huge ammounts of ammo. The best single stage press in the World however is the Corbin Series 2, expensive as single stages go but the best dosen't come cheap. Jonathan Laws -- I didn't realise Dillon made an automatic press! I think the word they use is "progressive", i.e. you get more with your pull of the lever. Progressive presses were invented because of the demand from practical pistol shooters, I wonder whether anyone really needs one in this country anymore, though they do make a progressive shotshell press as well. There are a lot of fun though if you get all the widgets, I had great fun playing around with one at the SHOT show a couple of years ago :) Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Target-Remington 700 faulty safety
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > I have since traded > the gun, but have kept the serial number and would like to report this to > someone that is keeping track of these numbers. I have not been able to > find any contact information for anyone and thought you might have a name > with a contact number or email address. Litigation is not my intent, > however, myself as a safety professional, I feel certain ethics are involved. I don't want to appear as though I'm trying to start some sort of slanging match here but, iIs trading off a gun in this condition "ethical"? Surely getting in touch with the manufacturer should be the first course of action they may actually buy it back from you? Jonathan Laws -- First thing I tell anyone who takes up shooting is "caveat emptor" or whatever it is, I don't want to start another thread on this subject but gee whiz is there some junk out there being sold off as being in good condition. Bit like buying a used car really. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Target-Gallery Rifle
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Okay so what is it because I'm getting confused now. > > 475 or 1,496? > > Steve. Well I've been on outdoor pistol ranges that had the same restriction as rifle ranges 5160 ft/lbs or thereabouts. The new Kynoch ammo factory apparently has a range in it's basement rated right up to .700NE level!! You can hire it by the hour I believe. Jonathan Laws. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Marginal seats
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just walked past the Labour offices in Hexham and they've got a sign in the window saying that the tories only won it by 222 votes, I was amazed, it being a well off rural area. The numbers of people holding FAC's and SGC's could have a big impact there. Pity I don't live there any more. Jonathan Laws Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-The march in March
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > And this is true not only of foxhunting but of the supporters of any > sport and minority activity when they face criticism. I think that that > stems from a pig-headed refusal to recognise that civilised societies > impose rules of behaviour which can not be disregarded on the basis of > any historical right or tradition. No one is saying that societys rules should be disregarded simply so that a particular tradition can continue. What society should recognise is that it does not, and should not, have the right to control the activities of adults who are not causing any problems for their fellow Humans. It is about society being more tolerant towards things that the majority may not like or approve of. > It does not matter if one is hunting foxes on horseback with hounds or > having a weekly bar-b-que with the smoke and the smell of burnt sausages > filling the neighbours bedrooms. This is not a fair comparison because Fox Hunting does not affect your next door neighbours (or anyone else who does not choose to be associated with it for than matter) whereas a barbecue may do and so is subject to whatever rules society likes to put on it. > Minorities whose behaviour is considered objectionable will eventually > have their "pleasure" curtailed and the right and freedom of choice > simply does not come into the consideration. Well if you think that is acceptable behaviour from a civilised society then I would try to re-evalate the way you look at the World. For society to simply outlaw an activity because it dosent like it is wrong and to be honest rather worrying, what will they ban or who will they persecute next? Jonathan Laws Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-The march in March
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > The people that oppose hunting foxes with dogs in this country do so > because it is basically a sport. Their objection is that killing animals in > a sporting or gaming environment for fun is something that high order > civilized societies should not partake in. But this is only the opinion of some, it dosen't give anyone the right to impose it on anyone else regardless of how many people support it. It dosen't affect the people who happen not to like it so why should they have any say in the matter? An alternative opinion could be that "high order", "civilized" societies should be prepared to protect minority interests not persecute people just because they don't like what they do. Jonathan Laws Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-The march in March
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >a) Just because you find something distasteful is not a good > >enough reason to prevent other people who happen to enjoy that > >activity from engaging in it. > > But if - say - 70% of the country find it distasteful - does it become > reasonable to look at preventing that activity from being engaged in? At > what time does it become good enough reason to look at? No to the first and "never" to the second. It dosen't matter how few people partake in an activity or how many people don't like it, it dosen't make it right to ban it. If you follow that line then the persecution by the Nazis was perfectly legit because the Nazis were voted in by the people who knew they had these political leanings. If someone's activties aren't harming anyone they should be restricted regardless of how much society disapproves. > >b) The perception that hunting is the sole preserve of the > >wealthy is way off the mark. Go to any meet and for every toff on > >horseback you'll see half a dozen scruffy ordinary Joes who are following > >on foot or in their car. I'm a case in point - I've been hunting > >for nearly twenty years yet never once have I ridden to hounds nor have I > >ever had much more than two brass farthings to my name. > > Seems to illustrate the original point I was making. > > Why have you never ridden? Why do the scruffy ordinary Joes always > following on foot or in their cars. Why are the scruffy ordinary Joes never > riding to the hounds? Many people who are not rich toffs do ride to hounds. You seem to be implying that it should be banned *because* the scuffy ordinary joes don't do it. Jonathan Laws Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-instant incapacitation
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Not according to Massad Ayoob in his training course. He reports incidents >involving fatal brain shots (as well as fatal hits elsewhere), where the >wounded person has continued to function sufficiently well for long enough >to be deadly. In which case, the brain is not been destroyed but merely penetrated. A shot that destroys the brain or destroys the brain stem (what is sometimes referred to as the reptile brain) will cause instantaneous in voluntary loss of function. >In one case, a man was shot at point blank range through the >head with a .44 Magnum. The bullet removed a substantial proportion of his >brain and blew his left eyeball out in the process. He was not even >rendered unconscious; he ripped himself out of the grip of the 2 men holding >him, ran to the door, opened it, ran down 2 flights of stairs, across a >hall, opened another door, crossed a pavement and reached his car (in which >he had a pistol), before collapsing. An exceptional case, which just a goes to show that in life (and death, ho ho) nothing is assured. >According to Massad Ayoob, the only bullet location which always produces >instant and total shutdown, is the central cortex (?), which is the main >nervous system junction box, located approximately where the spine meets the >skull, roughly in line with the mouth. aka the brain stem or reptile brain --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Target-Gallery Rifle
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > It's the same as the MoD standard for indoor pistol ranges, max. > calibre .455", not sure what the exact energy limit is off the > top of my head. > > Steve. 475 ft/lbs seems familiar. Jonathan Laws Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-.50
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Occasionally one has some very limited sympathy for the criminals. I sat > listening a few years ago to a plea of guilty at Southwark CC for unlawful > possession; discharge with intent to endanger life; att. murder(acquitted of > the latter) well-known drug dealer in the proverbial BMW was cut up by a > white Transit in Balham High Road; he let off a magazine from a Browning > Hi-Power at the Transit, mercifully wounding no-one. There but for the grace > of God... I mast be a bit slow because I fail to see any reason for sympathy here. Jonathan Laws Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-TV: Siege
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Just seen the Siege program on ITV tonight, didn't see it >why is it that >the police marksman will only shoot when the target is >pointing the firearm at the hostage with their finger on >the trigger, about to kill the hostage? because, contrary to the claims recently posted here that the police shoot first and ask questions afterwards, they really don't want to shoot anyone. And they don't want to face a trial in which it is alleged that they fired when it wasn't necessary. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. An unenviable position. >As we all know, the body does the last thing the brain >told it to do eg the decapitated Chicken that runs away >headless - the last command the body received. Nah, the chicken thrashes because his CNS has been severed, its a reflex action. If you destroy the brain - or the spine - there won't be even a twitch. Neck-shot deer, or cattle hit with a captive bolt killer, go down like a sack of spuds. >Shooting someone when they are about to kill the hostage >is probably too late, is it not better to shoot when the >target is not pointing the firearm/weapon at their >hostage(s), there by minimising the risk of the hostage >being killed by accident. But, if the hostage is not in immediate danger - and no one has been shot so far - are you justified in shooting? >Someone needs to get all those mis-trained officers >retrained, &also do something about their marksmanship >abilities. Dead easy to criticise, less easy to do. --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-AD Meetings
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > it doesn't matter what clothes you wear as long as you're a good person > inside. > > Keep the faith. > > Martyn Archer Yes I'm with you on that one. I realise that camo gear, holsters all over your body and an Alvis Stalwart parked in the drive isn't to everyones taste and to many appears a bit strange, but the bottom line is, who really gives a toss? The attitude of "well it's not really necessary so *they* shouldn't be allowed to do it" dosen't really hold water because no sport is really necessary in the true sense of the word, shooting no less so. This is only lowering ourselves to the level of the bannit brigade. In the 14ish years I've been shooting, the attitude of "don't rock the boat" has been the prevailing one from most of the shooting orgs and clubs. Given the benefit of hindsight, it is plainly obvious that it has done us absolutley no good what-so-ever, in any shape or form. If we had simply taken the bloody minded approach in everything, we may not be any better off than we are now but we certainly wouldn't be any worse off. We have been told not to carry guns in holsters, not to shoot at certain targets, not to use high cap mags, not to wear camo gear, to keep quiet during "sensitive" times when we could be getting our point accross, etc, etc,etc, this is all stuff from shooting orgs and clubs not Parliament. I'm sure others can add to this list. All of this has done nothing at all to help the shooting sports and unless we take a more beligerant attitude we won't be shooting anything by the end of the first decade of this century. I've met all types of people through shooting. I know some bloody good blokes who before the pistol ban used to go to the club tooled up like the preverbial Mexican bandit (Davey, do you still read this? :-)), I've known people who have worn camo gear, cowboy boots, hell I've even got a full length Austrailian stockmans coat I use at the range and I look a right tit in it! The point is, regardless of the eccentricity of the individual, I've never known anyone in the shooting world who I would actually regard as dangerous or likely to bring the sport into disrepute. Jonathan Laws Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-The march in March
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Make no mistake if, as some wrongly predict, the spotlight then turns on > game shooting and deer stalking... Oh yes it will, as sure as Eggs is Eggs it will. We all know very well how the "bannit" brigade operate, they aren't happy unless they are out there persecuting some minority interest group. Shooting, Stalking, Fishing Hawking, Ferreting and just about anything else you can think of from eating meat, drinking alcohol to scratching your arese in public. Anything that dosent fit with the moral values of some (very) loud mouthed minority organisation will be seen as fair game for eradication. Regarding the points about Fox Hunting being more cruel than shooting, sorry but I just can't see this. I fail to understand why a quick death by dogs is any more cruel than a quick death by shooting especially when there is zero risk of an injured animal getting away when hunted with dogs. Same with Hawking, if happens in nature so why is it unnaceptable if man has a hand in it? Jonathan Laws Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Field-Cats...and Pheasants..
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >If you "steal" a pheasant when it is alive...it is poaching. This is my understanding - feel free to correct me. A wild living pheasant is a wild animal and belongs to no man. Once it is "reduced into possession" - whether alive or dead - it becomes possession. >So >what then of pet pheasants kept in an enclosed aviary? Theft or poaching? Since they are in someone's possession, they belong to that someone. --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Field-Cats the worst killers
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Incorrect. It is because a dog is *property* whereas a cat is not. > >What? - So who does my cat belong to then? Not you, although you might belong to the cat. :-) As I understand it, the cat is not considered to be property, it is not owned by you or anyone. In contrast, I do own my dog. I'm open to correction of course. --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Target-.50
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > We have > > occasional visits from special branch, and get heaps of bleatings from our > > local Firearms Officers. > > O, this sounds such fun, where do I sign up?? I love > an opportunity to p--- off our masters :-) > > Jonathan Laws > -- > Well first you need several thousand quid for the rifle... > > Steve. ...and second? Jonathan Laws -- Presumably it's the same application process on Form 101, I think Rob Adam runs the 50 shooter's association, join up, put down your "good reason" as target shooting, go to Ash ranges and deafen yourself! Actually single-shot .50s aren't that expensive, I think you could get one for two grand. (What a bargain!) Tom, what's the address of the association? I have to say I am completely dumb-founded that the police get that wound up by it. There are at least a couple of benchrest shooters using .338 Lapua Magnum, that's not far behind .50BMG. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-TV Anti's & Music
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Could it be the parents/family who are now complaining that > this Eminem person's music & message are not suitable, are > the ones who bought the album, singles & concert tickets for > their under 16's. Lets face it, the only reason this muppet sells any albums is *because* of the swearing in the lyrics, reffering to it as "garbage" would be doing a diservice to the four day old vindaloo I've just fed to the wheelie bin. Jonathan Laws -- One of my friends bought me the album for my birthday (God knows why). It is total crap. An hour worth of him swearing. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Legal-Soldier's "suicide by cop"
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Do the police have access to the growing array of "non-lethal" >products available to "SWAT" teams? > >I'm thinking "Bean Bag rounds" CR/CS/CN liquid gas sticky foam >rounds, Rubber Bullets etc? at least some constabularies have armed themselves with the HK right gun from which they can fire plastic bags and CS ammunition. Additionally, many have the Remington 870 shotgun from which they can fire a wide variety of ammunition including CS. >(Are "Bean Bag Rounds" legal for civilian use?) I can't see any reason why they would not be legal, but I'm not aware of any that are on issue. --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-.50
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > We have > occasional visits from special branch, and get heaps of bleatings from our > local Firearms Officers. O, this sounds such fun, where do I sign up?? I love an opportunity to p--- off our masters :-) Jonathan Laws -- Well first you need several thousand quid for the rifle... Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Crime-More stupidity in England
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Whilst I understand the thinking behind the approach taken by the >police, which is basically "shoot now, ask questions later", I think that's an unfair comment. I've met and known quite a few AFOs and I don't think that's a fair comment at all. >Do you know, I think I could cope with this approach if only the police >spent more time being effective catchers of real criminals than they do How many do they catch, do you know? And what's a 'real criminal' anyway? --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Legal-man sentenced for shooting cat
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >The RSPCA today welcomed a decision to order a man to pay nearly £2,000 for >shooting a neighbour's pet cat with an air gun because it was sitting on the >bonnet of his £20,000 Volvo car. > >Lorry driver Michael Wootton, 52, of Woodside, Telford, Shropshire, was found >guilty in January of cruelly ill-treating a cat by shooting it after "seeing >red" and taking aim with the weapon. If you're going to shoot a cat, be sure to kill it outright. That way no cruelty can be alleged. (You might get sued for damages though. :) --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Field-Cats the worst killers
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Is this still the case? [that you must report an road traffic accident involving a dog] Yes, as far as I known. >I know the reason for reporting the death of a dog >but not a cat was because dogs were (supposed to be) licensed, which >cats never have been. Incorrect. It is because a dog is *property* whereas a cat is not. --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Legal-Airguns
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Very few people have ever been killed with 12 >foot-pound (and under) airguns and I don't think its >therefore reasonable in the legal sense to say that >they ARE lethal. "in the legal sense", you mean "in law". Most are. >If something doesn't go bang it's not a firearm, by >definition What about a harpoon with a tube to guide the spear. By case law, it was a lethal **barrelled** weapon, and a firearm. >The scale >of the threat simply does not indicate a need for licensing, >any more than it would indicate a need for licensing hammers, >for example. Oooh, no, there's lots of people been killed with hammers, but not nearly as many as with fists, feet, broken bottles, kitchen knifes ... --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-Remington 700 ...WARNING...
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Tragically a child had been shot dead by a parent who had > released the safety catch on a loaded Remington 700 and it had fired. > Killing the child. > It is harsh to state that if it had been pointed in a safe direction that > said accident would never have occurred. Quite right, the parent was an arsehole, you don't point Firearms at anyone for any reason, unless you want to kill them. Jonathan Laws Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-The March : Slogans
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > How about, > "Mr. Blair this time we're up in arms, Next time we'll be up and ARMED" > Subtle ? That will get everything we have left banned within a year. Jonathan Laws -- I still think desperately simple slogans are the best: "The handgun ban was supposed to reduce crime, all it's done is ban our sport." "What do you get when you ban handguns? The highest rate of handgun crime ever." "Blair spent £100 million on banning handguns - now we have a higher rate of handgun crime." Etc. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Legal-Thais to replace machinegunning with lethal injection
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > A guy I went to school with saw one of these executions, they > tie them to a pole and machinegun them with an M60. I think > that is a pretty good deterrent! > > Steve. The TV mini-series "bangkok Hilton" with Nicole Kidman featured this type of thing. In that they executed two at a time I think with two M60's on a special mount and a large lever to fire both at once. FHM magazine had an article about a guy who did this but he used an MP-5 and I don't think it was used on full-auto. Jonathan Laws -- Utah still uses a firing squad, I think. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Letter to General Election candidates
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sending this letter to all candidates for my constituency as soon as they announced. Any comments are welcome if anyone can think of something else to include. ~~ Jonathan Laws x Dear Sir, As a constituent of the area you represent/are standing for election to represent, who is currently undecided as to how to cast my vote at a forthcoming general election, I have decided to write to each candidate to canvass their opinions. I would be most grateful if you could give me your position regarding the possession and use of Firearms, in a sporting context (target shooting and field sports), by private individuals and weather you would support the repeal of the Firearms Amendment Acts (one and two) 1997, should this be placed before Parliament. I will be copying this letter to all candidates standing for this seat. Yours A J Laws. ~~~ Jonathan Laws -- Well, you've spelt "whether" wrong! It might be worth pointing out to them that the current crime stats show that handgun-related homicide is at the highest level ever despite the ban. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-Manchester Gun Shops
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > The one in Devon who swore that he had Sierra's reloading book in stock, > took my money then gave me excuses for seven or eight weeks before I asked > for my money back. > Plenty of good shops to choose from, and the "others" > Best of luck > ken Know what you mean, getting stuff in this Country has become so chronically bad that, with the exception of the combustible stuff, if it isn't on the shelf of the gunshop when I want it I order it from the US. It generally works out the same price, sometimes cheaper, if they don't have it theyll tell you or order it for you and you generally know when, or even if, you are going to get it. Jonathan Laws -- The number of RFDs is in sharp decline, I think the current number is around 2,100, down from more than 3,000 in 1987. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Crime-arrested for brandishing brush
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Steve] >It's illegal, using an imitation firearm to threaten people. Section 16A of the 68 Act. But an imitation firearm is something that, whilst not a firearm, has the appearance of one. Do we know what offence he was convicted of? --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 -- I don't know but I would guess it was probably the offence from the 94 Act, threatening someone in such a way that they think force might be used against them or whatever it is. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-GCN and the FCC
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > No, they have six! > > Steve. Have they actually published a complete membership list? Surely this is a reasonable request given that they are on a government advisory comittee? Jonathan Laws -- I think it's on their website. Anyway, there's Gill Marshall-Andrews, Mick North, Ian Taylor and a few others. Actually I'm just looking at Ian Taylor's submission to the HAC report and there is a huge mistake in it, he says that Killias did a Spearman rank order correlation on the data he collected that shows a connection between firearm ownership and homicide rates, but that's not accurate, Killias did a Pearson correlation. I did a Spearman correlation for the Dunblane Public Inquiry and it doesn't show a statistically significant positive correlation. For those of you who enjoy statistics ;) Killias' study is nonsense anyway, have a read of it. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-Manchester Gun Shops
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Will be in Manchester next week and may have a few hours to kill, can anyone recommend any decent Gun shops to go browsing round. Antique shops with Guns in also. Ta, Jonathan Laws Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-GCN and the FCC
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Comments anyone ? > -- > I got the same letter about a year ago. > > Steve. This is all very well but it totally misses the point. The members of the GCN are *not* entitled to sit on that comittee because they do not meet the statutory requirements for membership as stated in the relevant Act, those being knowlege of any of the following; " (a) the possession, use or keeping of, or transactions in, firearms; or (b) weapon technology; or (c) the administration or enforcement of the provisions of the principal act, the firearms act 1982 and this act."
CS: Crime-More stupidity in England
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In fairness to the police I don't think you can criticise their response > in this incident. He did threaten to shoot the kids. > > Steve. Not that I'm defending this type of action in any way but, perhaps he wouldn't have if the Police had stopped the kids vandalising cars in the first place? Jonathan Laws. -- Of course, but it's not an excuse to go around threatening to shoot people either. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Placards and Banners at Countryside March
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kate said quite a bit, including: >Indeed. I find this all very sad. The whole idea of a march or protest is >essentially to ask for trouble. Before anyone jumps down my throat I'm not >talking about inciting a riot or anything sinister, but the march is taking >place so we can draw attention to ourselves and the fact that we think we're >getting a raw deal. Correct? That's the general idea. She comments how her club officer won't march, and she notes: >It is legal to demonstrate. More than that: we have a *right* to demonstrate. A right should not be confused with a discretionary privilege. I would argue that if we have any principles, we have a *duty* to stand up and be counted, a duty to the next generation to say 'enough'. --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Field-foxes
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>OK now what do you do with it, shoot it?Chris. >>-- >>No, you shoot it and cut it up, wrap it in bacon and eat it I reckon! > Steve, & Chris, > > What's with the bacon anyway? > Haven't you heard of making fox jerky? > Or, how about fox sausage? I'll wager none of you gentleman has ever paunched a fox, nor handled its flesh, else you wouldn't suggest anyone eats it. The flesh of a fox is as dark as that of a hare, but it smells as bad as the fox itself. It is a rich meat, compared to the delicate flesh of a rabbit, and my old redtailed hawk loved it. The foxes were worth shooting just to feed the hawl a rich diet through the summer moult, if for no other reason. --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Hunting ban
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>I think a ban on fox hunting will be the worst thing to happen >>to foxes ever. >> >>Steve. > > > Steve, & Neil, > > I dunno, Steve. > Here in the US, there have been several bans on hunting >various things with dogs (hounds, if you will), and the species have >bounded back in numbers that could not be ignored. For instance, >Black Bear & Cougar (mountain lion). But neither of those species is classed as vermin (agricultural pest if you prefer) nor do they have a year round open season on them. Foxes can be shot, trapped or snared all year round and by anyone who has the landowner's permission. You don't even need any form of hunting licence to do this. > Here's what I think will happen: > You will have a steady increase in the actual population >of the fox. Especially in the urban areas, cats and squirrel populations >will be diminished. I don't believe that cats feature on the fox's menu: mice, birds, worms, fish & chips, pizza and hamburgers yes, but not domestic cats. --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-Explosives
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Anyone interested in explosives should read "The Big >Bang - A History of Explosives" by G I Brown (Sutton >Publishing Ltd ISBN No 0-7509-2361-X) L9.99 paperback. I'll second that, it really is a good read. --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Crime-firearm offences
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >If you had an illegal handgun stolen, would you report it? You'd have >to be nuts. Therefore, can we be sure that these '142 handguns' are all >cartridge firing handguns, or could they include air and CO2 guns? >-- >How do we know the police found out the gun was stolen from the >burglary victim? Well, if an unlawfully held handgun is stolen during a burglary, it won't be traceable by the police through the licensing system since it won't be recorded against a certificate. I suppose there might have been 142 instances where burglar(s) *told* the police that the gun(s) the police had found on him had been stolen when he burgled such-and- such an address, but it seems a bit far fetched to me when around 'only' 300 handguns per annum were being stolen for half of them to be identified this way. I strongly suspect misclassification. >Also I am not entirely convinced that they >would not report it stolen, after all, most illegally held guns >are owned by otherwise law-abiding people and the threat of >prosecution for illegal possession is far less worrying that >being involved in a murder case if the gun is used by the >burglar, don't you think? I think most people would keep their traps shut. But on that subject, I have a case on my books right now and it behoves all certificate holders to listen to me on this. Last year, a shooter who lives out of town in this area, in a somewhat remote detached house, put his shotgun and ammunition in his car which was just outside his front door. He popped back inside to collect something he'd forgotten and during the two minutes he was gone, someone stole his gun and cartridges. He had not locked the car. (Be honest: would you have done?) His gun was sawn down, and it was used to fire two rounds of buckshot into the back of a young man's head from about 12 inches, obviously killing him. The shooter lost his shotgun certificate, but the young man lost his life. The certificate holder was, I understand, also prosecuted for breach of the conditions of his certificate. That's almost irrelevant. --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Hunting ban
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >One of the penalties in the proposal in addition to a L5000 fine is a ban >for life on owning a dog! What's the penalty for death [of a human] by dangerous driving? --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Crime-Gun laws spur more crime
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > perhaps one might rather refer to it as > a 'target rich environment' when mentioning its repute, > if only because the residents of the moment are unduly > relegated to being fish in a barrel. But that isn't the case, it isn't any more "target rich" than anywhere else. This is how it works, There are very few residents in a given area, lots of people travel into said area every day to work, shop, eat drink etc. If there are 10,000 people living there and 300,000 people go there every day then you statistically you will get an ammount of crime in line with a population of 310,000. The problem is, all the crime comitted against those 310,000 people is actually shown as being comitted against only 10,000 because it is shown on a per 1000 people basis and the 1000 people in question are residents, they don't take daily visitors into account. Besides all this, I'm sure that at least 50% of the violent crime happens because of all the pubs and clubs within a very small area, places which are frequented mostly by people who travel into the City to get pissed up and have fights while they are there. I would guarantee that if you controled for the fact that there are very few people living there you would almost certainly get a level of violent crime lower than the UK average. Jonathan Laws Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Legal-Scottish Public Enquiry Law
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >But wasn't Hamilton also supposed to have a .357 magnum in >his bag He shot his victims with the semi-auto, and killed himself with the revolver. The Scottish forensic scientists (firearms examiners) are quoted in the Cullen report as presenting an explanation as to why he loaded mixed bullet types in his magazines, but their explanation defies all common sense in my opinion. --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Field-shooting squirrels
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >So, how does one prepare and cook Squig then? I have a few nice juicy ones >that run within an easy shot of my bedroom window! I find that a .177 to the brain suffices. :-) This from a professional squirrel hunter (who also moonlights as a lecturer in veterinary medicine at Virginia Tech): Subject: What to do with them tree chickens SQUIRREL BRAISED IN SAUERKRAUT 2 large squirrels (preferably fox squirrels) or 2 rabbits Flour to coat squirrels 1 pound bacon 2 pound bag of sauerkraut (preferably Flanagan's) 1 pound hot bulk sausage 6-8 cloves garlic, crushed in a garlic press 1 tablespoon caraway seeds 2 bottles Beck's dark beer Disjoint the squirrels into serving-size pieces and put them in a bag of flour and coat them with it. Fry the bacon slowly in a heavy skillet, and remove to a paper towel when crisp. Brown the flour-dredged squirrel pieces in the bacon fat, turning frequently until they're golden. After the browning is complete, remove the squirrel and set aside. Crumble the sausage into the pan and cook it until it is crisp but not dry. Meanwhile, the sauerkraut should be draining in a colander; when it's completely drained put it in a bowl, and add the caraway seed, the bacon, and the sausage, along with the crushed garlic. Stir this thoroughly to mix all ingredients well. Oil the bottom and sides of a heavy ceramic or glass casserole, and make a layer of the sauerkraut mix in the bottom. Place some of the squirrel pieces on that layer, cover them with another layer of sauerkraut, and repeat with the rest of the meat, ending with sauerkraut on top. Pour in the beer. Cover tightly and bake in a 325=B0-350=B0 oven until the meat is tender, which will take an hour or two, depending on the age of the squirrels. --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-ACPO on hunt ban
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Electronic Telegraph >ISSUE 2065 Friday 19 January 2001 >CHIEF constables have warned the Home Office that a ban on hunting with dogs >could damage relationships between the police and rural communities and >stretch already limited resources. substitution mode ON CHIEF constables have warned the Home Office that a ban on handguns could damage relationships between the police and the shooting community and stretch already limited resources. But did anyone listen? >The Association of Chief Police Officers told the Government that its >members strongly supported the regulation of hunting by an independent >licensing authority "which did not involve the police". ho-ho-ho. But they are dead against an independent firearms licensing authority. >Although the association statement makes clear, in unusually forthright >terms, that chiefs are far from enthusiastic about a ban, its release only >after the vote reflected the chief constables' traditional reluctance to be >seen to be influencing political decisions. Sorry, it reflected what? >"It goes without saying that the police will do their best to meet the >demands of any new legislation. But inevitably hard decisions will have to >be made on priorities." In other words, don't be surprised if the police turn a blind eye to it. --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-DNA Testing
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >The Bill gives the police new >powers to seize documents and computer disks even if they contain privileged >legal information. That's a bit of a moot point, since the police do this anyway. Although the police are prohibited from so doing, the Police & Criminal Evidence Act does not make it an offence is they do knowingly seize privileged or special procedure material (e.g. medical records), nor is there any punishment for breaking the law in this way. So, in my case, the police seized material that they were prohibited from seizing and argued the toss later. They break the law but it seems commit no offence and are not subject to any punishment. In other words, they do as they damn well please with no fear of accountability. And that's justice? >Asked why he had not gone the whole way and introduced automatic screening of >the population, Mr Straw said that the new measure was a "proportionate" >response. He said: "You have to move cautiously in this area. He means "you have to move by stealth so no one notices what you're doing to them". >~~~ > >i still think the easiest solution to people control would be for every new >born baby to have their personal details tatooed as a bar code on its >forehead. Don't forget that Keith Halliwell wanted every newborn to be DNA profiled immediately after birth. --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Crime-firearm offences
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Go and have a look at this: > >http://www.official-documents.co.uk/document/cm50/5001/5001-03.htm Not yet looked, but .. >There's a lot of interesting stuff here. Look for example >at table 3.12, that indicates that 142 handguns were stolen >from residential premises 1999-2000. As very few handguns >can be legally kept at home now and this figure is not >dramatically lower than years when they were legal, it supports >the argument we made that most stolen guns were illegally >held to begin with. If you had an illegal handgun stolen, would you report it? You'd have to be nuts. Therefore, can we be sure that these '142 handguns' are all cartridge firing handguns, or could they include air and CO2 guns? --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 -- The 1994 report "Theft of firearms" did say they made mistakes but apparently the idea was to get rid of those mistakes - there is a seperate category for airguns. We have to take them at their word, they're the RDS you know, they don't make mistakes, they are completely infallable, hasn't Pat Mayhew told you yet herself? How do we know the police found out the gun was stolen from the burglary victim? They could have found out in the course of the investigation. Also I am not entirely convinced that they would not report it stolen, after all, most illegally held guns are owned by otherwise law-abiding people and the threat of prosecution for illegal possession is far less worrying that being involved in a murder case if the gun is used by the burglar, don't you think? Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Field-shooting squirrels
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > So, how does one prepare and cook Squig then? I have a few nice juicy ones > that run within an easy shot of my bedroom window! Saw a programme on telly a while back about Elvis Presley, apparently when he was a nipper Squirrel was a cheap (well free) alturnative to shop bought meat. Apparently you just skin it, lay it on the bench and smash the crap out of it with a rolling pin to crush the bones. Then you chop it up into large pieces and deep fry it I think. Jonathan Laws. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Crime-Gun laws spur more crime
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Central Newcastle, in the north of England, may actually be > the most dangerous place in the industrialized world. The Home > Office in Britain reports that "incidents of violence against > the person,'' which includes common assault, right up to and > including murder, are the highest there: I've got to take issue with this as it's simply not true, well, very deceptive at best. Central Newcastle is probably actually one of the safest city centres in the UK, if not Europe. The problem is, the area the is actually the "City Centre" is tiny and has maybe 10,000 people living in it, possibly slightly more. The whole area consists of shopping centres, Offices, Restaurants, Pubs and clubs. 99% of the people who are in the City Centre at any one time are not resident there so if you are showing your crime figures by a rate per 1000 people the figures are going to be knocked out of whack because the people who are being the victims don't actually live there. Beleive me there is no crime problem to any unusual extent in Newcastle and it's almost certainly safer than many other places I could mention. Jonathan Laws Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Hunting ban
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >-- >I don't pretend to be an expert on fox hunting, Nor me, although I have hunted with hounds once and discussed much with those who are committed hunters. >so surely it will just be >ploughed up and all the foxes killed off? I'm sure that there would be fewer foxes, as more hands would be raised against them. But the fells of North Yorkshire, the Lakes, and the Borders for example are not going to be ploughed up. The lowland coverts will probably remain for holding gamebirds and deer. >the "pest control" >argument (which I have to say is daft because shooting them with a rifle >is more effective). Depends what you mean by 'effective'. Certainly, a fox that is hit in the chest with a centrefire rifle at an appropriate distance will die instantly. But a hit in a non-vital place will leave a wounded fox to scuttle off, possibly to die later. And of course, you can only shoot at the fox when he is within sight, at a suitable range, and with a safe backstop (and when you have the correct gun with you!). I don't consider a .22LR to a suitable weapon against the fox, btw. So, this pretty much means stalking for them at night (or dawn and dusk) with a centrefire rifle, and you might get a shot. In contrast, the hounds go out and seek the fox, find him and flush him. Certainly, a pack of hounds (and perhaps horses) require some upkeep, and the man hours required to kill a single fox is not cost-effective. But I suspect the success ratio of a pack of hounds out for a randomly selected day versus a randomly selected day for a gamekeeper with a rifle is well in favour of the hounds. Of course, if you want to kill foxes the most efficient and cost- effective method is to use snares. >The argument I always use against banning fox hunting >is that foxes will become extinct in various areas as there will be no >reason to put up with them any longer. There will certainly be fewer foxes, but I don't think many people would want them exterminated. And besides, if you kill a fox two more come to his funeral. :-) --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Field-shooting squirrels
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Actually thinking about this today, presumably 12 ft/lb >was decided on back when grey squirrels were pretty rare, The 12ft-lb limit exists because it was felt that anything lower would be insufficient to humanely kill agricultural pests -- meaning rabbits and woodies. Squirrels are more effectively controlled by trapping, and few people eat them. (And those who don't are missing a treat.) --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 -- Oh, don't get Peter started again! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-Proofing
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >I agree with Steve. > >An inspection of the Oxford Dictionary will confirm that there are no such >words as proofed or proofing. An item is sent for "proof" (ie proof of its >integrity), when done it said to be "proved" (ie its integrity has been >proved), the act itself is "proving" (ie proving its integrity or otherwise) Ah, but English is a Germanic language. If we look to the German word for a test or examination, we find it is Prufung. So, to proof a gun is to test it. This makes more sense than 'proving' a gun's integrity. --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 -- If we spoke German! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-Stray horses on motorway are shot dead
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Telegraph 11.1.01 > >Stray horses on motorway are shot dead >By David Sapsted > > >THREE horses, part of a group that has been roaming and causing >chaos on the roads for two months, have been shot dead by police. Any information on what type of ammunition was used (i.e. cartridge & bullet type), and where they were shot (i.e. brain or heart)? Enquiring minds want to know ... --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Letter from Charles Clarke
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >I need some help from CS contributors to reply. I have put >my queries in brackets: >Quote: >The overall >crime rate in this country has risen during the same period, and much armed >crime will be linked to rises in other areas of crime such as the trade in >illegal drugs. That's fair comment in so far as it goes, much crime involving firearms is committed by people who also commit other crimes such as dealing in drugs. But if gun control *works* then this wouldn't be true. Ergo, ... gun control does not 'work' if by 'work' we mean be 100% effective. >The Home Office has not generally sought to put forward an estimate for the >number of illegal guns in circulation in the United Kingdom The key word is 'generally', meaning that they aren't so foolish as to be definitive by saying there are 'x' illegal guns out there. >However, our levels of armed crime have been generally far lower than most >Western countries who have less stringent gun control measures than our own. >While there are some countries that are obvious in this respect, such as the >United States, there are many less obvious examples. Commonwealth countries >such as Canada and Australia and European countries such as France, Sweden >and Switzerland have more liberal firearms controls and higher rates of >firearms- related homicides than our own. (Help with this whole section >please -KP) homicide presumably includes suicide >I am satisfied that our low rates of armed crime by international standards >are due in part to our strict controls over firearms. Not only do these make >it more difficult for most criminals to obtain guns, Fair comment, at face value. But if we think a little bit more about it, anyone who has the means can obtain a gun, it's just that he can't buy one at Tescos. The kind of people who are committing serious armed crimes are not well-heeled 'professional' criminals, but relatively uneducated low-life. The degree of 'difficulty' these people have in obtaining arms is equivalent to the degree of difficulty that the licensing laws present to the average teenager in obtaining a bottle of cider from the local off-licence: under 18s aren't allowed to buy alcohol, so these laws "make it more difficult for most teenagers to obtain alcohol". >but they also reduce the >scope for unsuitable characters to obtain firearms with tragic results. ditto >In >this respect, the school and workplace shootings that have taken place in the >United States in recent decades show that serious armed crime does not simply >involve professional criminals. (Any comments - KP) Same situation here: the various murders that I have worked on in the past 12 months, by and large, have involved career criminals but I wouldn't call them professional criminals either. >The fact remains that the tragic shootings at Hungerford and Dunblane, which >remain the most serious shooting incidents in this country in recent decades, >were carried out using firearms that were legally held by the perpetrators. Yup. The 1997 Acts were designed, not to prevent another Dunblane, but to prevent another Dunblane being committed by a certificate holder. >Kenneth Pantling >-- >"There are other examples", e.g. Norway, a rather closer country. >Ireland has much tougher gun laws than we do, and their firearm-related >homicide rate is twice ours. Ireland is presently undergoing a dramatic increase in suicide. I was across there recently, and a vet had killed herself with a drug used to knock out horses. Why? No one knows. --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 -- Actually that comment from Charles Clarke about armed crime not involving professionals is demonstrated by Home Office statistics which indicate that of 29 of 41 domestic homicides from 1992 to 1994 involving the use of a shotgun, the gun was illegally held. Hardly an argument for the success of gun control. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-lever-action shotguns
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > P.S. Didn't Arnold Schwarzenegger use a sawn off (Barrel & Stock) Large Loop > Winchester in Terminator 2? - Just thought of that!!! That was a shotgun 1897 Winchester? The loop was cut away in part to allow it to be spun rather than enlarged. Jonathan Laws -- I'm not too good on these old things but wasn't it an 1887 Winchester? The 1897 was a pump wasn't it? Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Legal-Data protection Act
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > I under stand that as a result of the Data Protection Act (or some such) > a person caught on cctv can on paying a L10 fee have a copy of it. If > this can be confirmed then I will be asking the Met for copies of all > tapes that I am on, and if they can't identify me then a copy of > everything is what i shall expect - otherwise its off to the data > protectection registra. Does the Data protection Act apply to your FAC file at your local licensing department? If so it seems like a good way to find out what your referees wrote about you and what other comments have been noted about you by plod. Jonathan Laws -- The DPA does apply to your file. I have a copy of mine, but I got it the hard way, during discovery before my appeal. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-John Wayne Winchester Custom Model
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > I don't think it was invented by John Wayne, Robert Stack used > one in "The Rifleman" but I'm not sure which was filmed first. > > Steve. "Stagecoach" featured this rifle and that was 1939 I believe. Jonathan Laws Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Mowlam approves guns deal
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Handguns? From Britain? What make and model? Are we a "go between" or are > these handguns ones being sold from those handed in. I think this warrants > someone trying to get their MP or Peer to ask a question about this. I got a letter from the Home Office a few weeks ago about our surrendered firearms. According to that letter "the vast majority" of them have been destroyed. I did ask how many had been, retained by the Police, obtained by museums or exported and the answer was that they didn't hold figures for this. Didn't the Governmnet say at some point that they wouldn't dispose of any of the gear abroad? Jonathan Laws -- Yes they did. Jamaica has purchased firearms from MoD stores before, I assume the same applies this time. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Target-303 215gn round nose
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Do they? That's news to me. Hollow nose bullets do not > necessarily mean expanding bullets, that is what is > prohibited. > > Steve. I'd heard that the HO had accepted that you could use lead nosed bullets in the like of .30/30 as the flat lead nose was designed so as not to impact the primer on the round in front. The problem is, these bullets are also designed to expand so I wouldn't like to follow that advice. Jonathan Laws -- The legality of all this is specified in Sections 9 and 10 of the 1997 Act. Expanding ammunition is prohibited, there are various exemptions but target shooting is not one of them. You can target shoot with expanding bullets for the purpose of zeroing and so on, but the police cannot issue authority expressly for target shooting with expanding bullets. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Field-Leading in FAC air rifles
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Asked if air gun pellets are pure lead. No, they are a relatively hard lead alloy. And, generally, they are lubricated by the manufacturer (open a new tin and sniff it). I don't imagine leading would be a problem. Try speaking to the manufacturers, e.g. Theoben and BSA. > In light of all that has been written about moly >coated bullets and barrels, would you be interested in >becoming a guinea pig air rifle user? > I mean, what the hay, if it works for the big guns, >why not air rifle pellets? Sure, they are smooth bore, Nope, the ones we're considering are rifled. BB guns tend to be smooth bored, but serious air guns are rifled. I certainly wouldn't consider using moly, even if I got leading. But I don't imagine leading will be a problem. Even if the pellets Chris chooses to use are not lubricated, a quick spray with a *very* light oil should prevent leading c.f. .22LR lead bullets. As for recommending an accurate air rifle for squirrels, I'll limit my comments to those of which I have personal experience. Both the BSA SuperTen and the Theoben Rapid 7 are capable of (at least) 1/2 inch groups of ten shots at 25 yards. In better hands they may do better. Alternatively, for spring-piston powered air rifles, the Weihrauch HW35 and HW80 are similarly accurate. The HW90 use a "gas ram" rather than a spring and, once again, is an accurate air rifle. None of these air rifles is light, all are fairly heavy to carry around, but a carrying sling helps a lot. The Mk I BSA has no sling provisions, nor does the HW35 (which I think has been superseded anyway). Any decent gun shop should be able to supply sling swivels which you can fit yourself. --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-police weapons
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ...but can any > fellow "Cybershooter" tell us what BOTH the police's two "illegal" items > are? > -- > CS gas and expanding bullets? > > Steve. But the Police aren't covered by these accords so they aren't illegal. Jonathan Laws -- True, but it is intriguing nonetheless. What makes me laugh is that if they're going to do it, why not do it right, i.e. use JHPs instead of JSPs and use OC instead of CS? Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Target-auto-acceleration
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > The author put it down to auto-acceleration, conjecturing > that the very small charges of powder were laying along the > bottom of the case and igniting together instead of in > 'sequence' along the case giving a rapidly rising and massive > pressure curve. > > Note also that in several of the American reloading manuals > 'minimum charges' are stated as well as maximum. I don't > think this is because the bullet wouldn't leave the barrel. I'm not all that convinced by this "autoacceleration" malarkey. In the case you relate if *very* small charges of powder were being used perhaps they just weren't igniting properly rather than anything else? I remember reading about this a few years ago and one powder manufacturer (Vihtavouri?) did loads of tests on this and couldn't find any evidence for it at all. Smokeless powder is actually quite difficult to ignite properly, I tried a load with 2400 in .38 special once and unless you used quite a lot of powder it just wouldn't work properly, you would get loads on burned powder dropping out the end of the barrel and the bullet would embed it's self in the cardboard target backing, sideways usually. From this is would seem possible that the flash was simply missing most of the powder so it wasn't being ignited properly and thus giving erratic results. Yes loading manuals do give minimum charges sometimes, but these I think are mostly to avoid hangfires. If you look at data for very large rifle cases it will sometimes tell you not to reduce charges as the powder will not properly ignite due to the flash from the primer jumping over it, believe me I've tried to poo-poo these warnings, you know the thing "Well I'm more cleaver than this highly trained explosives engineer who wrote the book, so I'll put light charges in a .460 Weatherby case and just pack 'em down with toilet paper so the charge dosen't move!" Well guess what folks? The charge does move and when it does the rifle hangfires and it's not pleasant even with a much reduced load. I would hate to think what it would be like with an almost full load. I used to use a load of 110grns of H414 under a 405 grn bullet, I had to increase that to 112 grns because of the occasional hangfire. Jonathan Laws Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Target-Rem 700 problems
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Re: Remington 700's firing when safety is switched off: Peter Capstick in his book "death in the long grass" tells a very similar tale of a rifle that had this problem that nearly ended up with him being killed. The rifle was a .375 that had been loaned to the Hunter by someone else. On releasing the safety the Rifle discharged sending the bullet past Capstick at such close range it left a graze on his neck! Does anyone know if this was a Remmy 700 because the book dosen't say? Jonathan Laws -- Have they made 700s in .375? Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-Shotguns/forensic
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Of course, they could just check the gun for DNA and figure out >who fired it that way ;-b You might laugh, but we presently have a case in which DNA was found on the cartridge case. Of course this merely proves contact with the object, not who fired it. The contact could have occurred before, during, or after the firing. --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Sportsman's Association January Newsletter
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [big snip] >It >is high time we told our police (ACPO) to concentrate on police >work - i.e. on catching actual criminals - to keep their noses >out of politics and, above all, to stop their harassment of >shooters. It is also time we told those same Chief Officers and >their Firearms Licensing Departments to give us good value for >our money. They are supposed to be our servants, after all. Well, there we have it in a nutshell. You think they are our servants. They, from their conduct, think we are their subjects. Well, in at least some areas of the country. --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Target-blind people with firearms
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Re: blind people with firearms Was it on Cybershooters some years back where someone from the US told a tale of a friend who was *totally* blind getting a machinegun authority? They had to lead him by the hand into the local Sherrif's office to sign the paper work? Apparently he used to shoot at a large metal gong and his mates would help him aim by calling "left a little, right a little" you get the drift. Jonathan Laws -- There was a case in New Jersey a few years ago where a person who was legally blind wanted to buy a pistol and the local chief of police wouldn't grant the permit to buy. The chief's decision was quashed on appeal because there is nothing in the law saying that someone who owns a gun is necessarily going to use it, it is their use of the gun that may be dangerous, not the mere possession of it. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Target-38 Special
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > So much so that several years ago Remington introduced > some plastic coated 158gr 38 sp ammo to cut down on lead fumes > on indoor ranges, the ammo was quickly dropped when it was > realised that the rifling marks on the spent bullet were > disappearing shortly after firing due to the plastic healing. Didn't someone produce .38sp with plastic cases some years back? I think they may have had some weird copper bullet as well? Jonathan Laws -- Are you talking about Blazer with the aluminium cases? Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Tony Martin and David Mellor
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > The fact remains, and we are still not doing enough to continually point it > out day after day, that if Tony Martin had been allowed legally to possess > in his home non-lethal weapons of defence such as an electric baton or a CS > spray then one young man might not be dead and one old man not in prison. > Perhaps those who read "The People" could write to Mellor and ask him if he > agrees? I'll tell you exactly what Mellor's (spit) attitude will be. He will see it as being perfectly acceptable to shoot anyone you want, on sight at the slightest provocation, yet he will balk at the very idea of anyone being allowed to keep anything what so ever for defence, regardless of how lethal (or not) it may be. He's a total hypocrite and I sincerely hope he gets his House turned over in the near future, at least then he'll be able to speak from personal experience. He's a total tosser. Jonathan Laws -- Shame Tony didn't use a handgun really, wonder what Mellor would say then. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-Shotguns/forensic
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Can anyone on the list help with a hypothetical situation for a fiction I'm >working on? > >Someone is shot dead with an illeglly acquired shotgun with sawn-off barrels. >The police get hold of the gun. > >Once the police put it through forensic tests, is it in anyway possible to >link that gun with a former killing? I know it's easy with a rifled weapon, >but what can be done with a shotgun? >Barry Woodward >-- >There's quite a lot of ways, comparison of firing pin indents on >the primers, or breech face marks on the primer, or chamber or extractor marks depending upon the type of gun. For example, chamber and extracting answer are left on a semi or pump action but not normally on a close action gun. >they can also determine what ammunition was used to >shoot the victim, this can sometimes be done, generally by examining the wad, but this will often only produce a list of possible ammunition that was used. For example, in .410 ammunition the same what is used in 2.5 Fiocchi, Gamebore, and Lylevale. >fire it through the gun and compare it >ballistically, A plastic wad is usually the source of identification of a particular shotgun to a particular shooting incident. When a shotgun barrel is shortened with a hacksaw, it is seldom that the job is finished off by proper crowning. Sometimes, swarf is left inside the barrel, or small burrs are left on the cut ends. Both of these demonstrate the gun has not been fired since it was shortened. The rough edges from the sawing can leave identifiable marks on plastic wads. By firing control samples through the suspect weapon, and then comparing these under a comparison microscope to those on the evidence wad from the shooting incident, that gun can usually be identified or excluded as the crime weapon. >if it was close range they can compare the burns >on the victim with burns obtained during testing and so on. This can be used to estimate the distance between muzzle to target, but cannot be used to identify which gun was disabled involved. For example, there is a case where a suicide victim had a star shaped burn and soot mark underneath his chin. From this was possible to identify the weapon as an M14 rifle, but not possible to say >which< particular rifle was involved. --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Legal-Shops flout teenage knife law
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > It is illegal for knives to be sold to children under 16, but two 13-year-old > actors who took part in an investigation for ITV's Tonight with Trevor > McDonald programme found shops were flouting the law. > > They were filmed by an undercover camera buying Stanley knives, Swiss Army > knives and a set of kitchen knives. It would follow then that it is probably illegal to send an under 16 year old to buy such a knife so why have there been no prosecutions of the film crew? Familiar ground here I think? Jonathan Laws Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-Shotguns/forensic
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >There was a notable case involving just this issue some years ago. A bank >clerk was shot dead with a shot gun using Eley cartridges. Some (long) time >later the police raided the perpetrator's house. A box of cartridges was >found and the shot was found to be the same shot in the victim, Not possible. The best you could do is show that the shot had the same (actually, merely similar, not "the same") elemental composition. And that merely shows that is *could be* from a common source. >despite the >fact that the cartridges found were game shooting cartridges, and yet the >wad in the body was a clay shooting plastic wad. How? Because it transpired >that Eley had wrongly loaded that batch of cartridges with the wrong >hardness of shot. Fine. But that merely shows which batch of cartridges were involved. How many cartridges are in a batch? Is every cartridge accounted for when it is sold (and thereafter)? No, of course not. >Additionally I understand that a badly sawn off barrel, could leave >striations in some plastic wads. Your best bet would be to go, perhaps, >along the line of cartridge being mis-loaded with a large shot size, and the >police find a box of what appear to be a smaller shot size until an >intelligent police man or woman suggests that the cartridges be opened and >examined. That sort of thing has happened. And I had a case where a cartridge was modified: some (but not all) of the lead shot was removed and replaced with three 9mm steel ball bearings. --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-5000 Christmas cards for Tony Martin
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > I don't think this is the same David Mellor is it? > > Steve. I think it probably is, he seems to have acquired a journalistic bent after being given the old heave-ho from the House, didn't he get a job talk---er..I mean...waffling about Footballon the Radio? Jonathan Laws Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Sport minister criticises handgun ban
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Defending properly organised shooting activities, she says: "I have never > accepted the link between legal holding of firearms and illegal weapons. I > represent Vauxhall in London where there's a substantial number of illegal > weapons on the black market, very easily available, and I'm not sure that > the handgun ban has done anything to prevent illegal weapons getting into > the wrong hands. > > "Obviously, after Hungerford and Dunblane, there was a kind of attitude that > somehow there must be something slightly wrong with anyone who was involved > in shooting. I knew this to be untrue and I thought even some of my > colleagues in the House of Commons took a very unfair attitude." Well, I do take back what I have said about her in the past, she obviously isn't just another "Politican" along with the masses of crap that inhabit Parliament. May even write her a letter and tell her, after all, credit where credit's due and all that. Jonathan Laws. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Interesting Article: Analogies About Guns and Gun Control
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > However, you can always take the bus or the train. Taking the bus > or the train may not be as easy as using a car in certain > circumstances, but by comparison, shooting is vastly more effective > than poisoning or trapping as compared to taking a bus to taking > a car. > > Steve. Expanding on what Steve has said; Cars, when used solely for private entertainment and/or convienience, are utterly unnecessarry. You do not *need* to drive to the Seaside for a day out, nor do you *need* to drive to the Cinema to see the latest shoot 'em-up flick. They are no more essential to anyones lives than is a firearm used for target shooting and they are responsible for much more death and misery than any legally held firearms are. Jonathan Laws. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-5000 Christmas cards for Tony Martin
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > JAILED shotgun farmer Tony Martin He farms Shotguns??? From where can one purchase the seeds :-) > The cards flooded in after our Man of the People columnist > David Mellor called on the nation to show he had not been > forgotten. There word "Hypocrite" dosen't even begin to describe this arsehole of a man!!! Jonathan Laws -- I don't think this is the same David Mellor is it? Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-.22lr tracer
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Recently someone posted details of a US maufacturer or > supplier .22lr tracer (I believe with two different colour > elements). Unfortunately I have deleted or otherwise lost > the details. Could some kind soul please send them to me > personally or to the list. > > Thanks in advance > > Matthew Don't know about the US stuff but RWS makes it, or at least they did a while back. Jonathan Laws Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-Self-Defence
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > but first of all > you'd need someone with an absolutely clear cut case > of need to apply for one and get turned down, I reckon, > to stand any chance of convincing a judge. > > Steve. Anyone know why Mcgartland didn't try this? Would I be right in saying that he did apply for one but got refused? It seems like a pretty clear cut case to me given that he had one in NI, even more-so now that he has actually been shot at! Jonathan Laws -- He is the only person I can think of in recent times who has applied, been turned down, and subsequently shot. He was turned down because the local police said they couldn't issue one for personal protection and had no authority to issue an FAC for a handgun. They're right on the second point but not on the first. I think you would have to go to judicial review rather than Section 44 appeal because Section 5 decisions are the responsibility of the Secretary of State and are not subject to appeal. IG inferred that McGartland had an unsavoury past and there were things about the case of him getting shot that would make it unlikely he could succeed. I don't know, but given that the RUC had already issued him one I can't see why he couldn't be issued one in GB. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Gun Rights Convention UK
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > My view is that our sport is faced with extermination within the next ten > years. > Anything we do now to organise and oppose the anti's can ultimately be to > our collective benefit. Absolutley spot on, we are in such a position now that anything we do may not do us much good but it can't really put us in a worse position than we already are. Jonathan Laws Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-Supplemental Chambers
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 1. Do these supplemental chambers require British proof? > > 2. Has anyone tried manufacturing them recently, preferably in UK and > who? > > Any information would be most appreciated, > > Thanks, They are callede Auxiliry adapter cartridges. They don't require British proof, Steve was right, according to the Home Office they are components of ammunition not components of a firearm. You can get them from Old Western Scrounger in the US, coincidentaly I've got one on order for using .32 ACP in a .308 Win, price is $19.95 each. I'll let you know how it goes when I get it. Jonathan Laws Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-Beware of Factory Rebuilds
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Here you have to be much more careful because I > find that people only sell their guns off when they've worn > them out, either that or it's an awful gun that they didn't like. > Not always, you can find some jewels, but it happens quite a lot. Can't say I agree with all of this. I don't think there are all that many "worn out" guns out there, guns people didn't like definatley, but worn out I doubt. Diferent people like different guns in different ways and what suits one person may not suit another even though there may not be anything actually wrong with it. I have a .30-30 Marlin that I know shoots very well but I just don't like much and can't get to it shoot very well. I have just picked up a single shot .357, New England Firearms break action carbine (for not a lot) that fits me nicely, has a nice trigger pull (for me) has nice sights (for me) and "feels" right, not suprisingly my averages in the club comps have gone up since I got it. I can't say that I've seen many guns at all that I could truly describe as being worn out, I just don't think we have the opurtunity here to shoot a gun to death, especially if it's a full bore rifle. J. -- I come across worn out junk portrayed as being in good condition at arms fairs constantly. Sometimes its down to the ignorance of the dealer, who goes on exterior looks alone, but sometimes you come across dealers trying to pull a fast one. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Naval Guns
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > I've seen large naval guns referred to as rifles. Is this just an > > American expression or was it used in the Royal Navy as well? Guns & Ammo some years back did an article on the 16" Guns on, I think, USS Iowa. It was entitled "The Worlds biggest Varmint Rifles" or words to that effect. Jonathan Laws. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Gun Powder
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > There was an article in Gun Digest a few years ago about > how the guerillas in Afghanistan were making primers out > of nitrocellulose film that was a pretty interesting read. > > Steve. I remember reading a Guns Review article some years ago about people in an arms dealing town in Pakistan scraping off match heads to fill cartridge cases with. Always meant to try it but never got round to it, perhaps one day. Jonathan Laws. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Naval Guns/Maximum Range
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Jonathan's figures say maximum range was produced with >35 deg elevation, not 29 deg. I did wonder if anyone was watching! :-) But the difference was a mere 11 yards (or 0.75 of 1 per cent) over a 4,500 yard (2-1/2 mile) distance - hardly worth the quibble IMO. >Slippery answer there >from Jonathan, obviously a good man in court. Not I. I give it straight down the line, and I don't care whether it helps or harms either side's case. --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Lethality of Shotguns
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Presumably Tom Warlow's book mentions it. > >Is this worth a read, I was thinking of getting it out the >Library as it's about 60 quid. It's not the kind of book that you would read cover-to-cover. It's neither purely a technical treatise nor strictly an autobiography but an odd mix of something in between, and somewhat idiosyncratic. It's worth getting out of the library and perusing, certainly. There's some useful technical data, such as proof marks with dates of use, and some interesting anecdotal snippets not to mention information for the practising firearms examiner. But I think there are few private individuals who could justify the L53 price tag. I couldn't, but my company did. --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Police state marches on
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >From: "Richard Loweth", INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] put his tongue firmly in his cheek, and said >I do not know what all the fuss is about roadside DNA Tests. Only those who >have something to hide have anything to fear. Let me tell you all that the >police do not just stop innocent people in this country. Nor do they ever >arrest people unless they are quite obviously criminals. You people that >criticise the brave and dedicated officers of the law who keep this country >safe should be ashamed. I've never gone along with this 'the innocent have nothing to fear' bit. The *guilty* have nothing to fear but justice, and they should fear that. In contrast, the innocent have *everything* to fear, most of all _in_justice. --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-colours
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >(Chorus) "Oh no it's not !" altogether now >Black normal state of alertnes >Black Alpha slightly enhanced state of alert >Amber expected attack or security threat, non-specific as to target (e.g. intelligence reveals to expect "an RAF station in Germany" to be bombed = all RAF stations go to amber, guards issued live ammunition). e.g. when Bobby Sands' death was announced, all UK military establishments went immediately to amber. >Red (I once spent an uncomfortable half hour at this alert state) imminent attack expected against this unit, or attack has already occurred at this unit or a nearby one e.g. when Joint HQ was bombed in the 70s, nearby RAF stations went to either amber or red. --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Naval Gun Fun
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >They didn't all elevate up to 45 degrees, thus denying >them maximum range. Maximum range comes at about 29 degrees, not 45. In a vacuum it would be 45, but we have the air to contend with. --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-Knives
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Actually pink's a good idea - not only does it make it easier to find your >knife when you drop it in the long grass, but pink being widely regarded by >western society as a "feminine" colour (well, who can prove me wrong?) will >convey the message that the owner of said knife is a caring & gentle soul, >nicely in touch with his female side - In another thread, it was suggested that the fuss over Winchester's Black Talon ammunition (now called "Fail Safe") would never have occurred if they had been introduced as "Winchester Safety Blossom". :-) --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 -- Oh did I have fun wearing a Black Talon T-shirt during that uproar ;-) Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-Airgun power limits
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >The 12 ft >lbs limit for air rifles was probably a bit beyond the springers of the day I doubt that was so. The limit was set, so I've read in official papers (don't ask for a reference because I'd be unlikely to find it) that 12ft-lbs was set because much less than this was considered ineffective for shooting rabbits and 12ft-lbs was more than enough. >as well despite tall tales to the contrary but at the time the Dangerous Air >Weapons regulations were laid down some of the American multi-pump pneumatic >air rifles(Crosmans; Benjamins and the like) were becoming quite popular in >this country and it was feared that these could be pumped up to power levels >approaching .22 rimfire ( they couldn't but the tabloids said they could!) I recently saw a .25 calibre pump air rifle that delivered in excess of 80ft-lbs at the muzzle. >The >latest exhortation of the Home Affairs Select Committee to the Government to >maintain a watching brief on 'existing airgun technology' and the standard >test of 'lethality' >to be applied to all weapons This proposal has been around for a long time. The suggested air gun test is to use a standard projectile and testing for velocity. In respect of lethality, it has been found that a velocity of 246fps with a 5.5 grain BB is sufficient to penetrate into a pig's eye. Given that the English definition of 'lethal' is that it can, if misused, cause an injury that is more than trifling or trivial. Most people would agree that a punctured eye is neither trifling or trivial, so it is 'lethal'. The 5.5 grain BB at 246fps delivers less than 0.75ft-lbs. (Personally, I think the definition of lethal is plain daft. But that's the law and we're stuck with it. I don't doubt for a second that this is not what Parliament intended when the 1968 Act was passed.) --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 -- I tend to go on what level an airgun has been shown to be lethal, which is around 3-3.5 ft/lb. So many people have been shot with airguns over the last century or so that I think lab tests have little relevance. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-court cases
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > but I can remember a guy in Dade > County Florida who set up a boobytrap by electrifying > the grill over the air-conditioning vent on his premises But wasn't there a case here a few years ago where a bloke protected his car by electrifying it? I think a Hotel Parking attendent got zapped with it and the guy was prosecuted, he did get found not guilty though. Jonathan Laws -- The thing it depends on is intent, and that is why boobytraps are illegal virtually everywhere. If you electrify something and kill someone, did you intend to kill them, or merely dissuade them? Well, if you intended to kill them you can just lie and say it was to scare them off. Then it gets into a very complex technical argument determining the intent of the person, based on the amount of electricity they used or whatever. However if the people were in a fight and one guy jammed the other's fingers into a socket and electrocuted him, the intent is far more clear. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-self defence
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] foot self in shoots? >Why should someone who had 24 hr police protection need a gun for self >defence? which implies that the police *can* provide protection to Salman >JFK. and a bunch of others prove that protectors failed to protect >In my opinion, tempered by many years of experience, both as an armed and >unarmed officer, the use of a firearm as defence against sudden or >unexpected attack is of very little value. It is impossible to assess, >react, draw and fire an accurately placed shot if the assailant is attacking >you with even a knife from less than 27 feet away. But the argument is this: why should ordinary people be denied the *chance* to defend themselves? And equally, if ordinary people are denied the choice to carry, why should the police be allowed to carry for their own self-defence? Plainly, it isn't a question of training, because even if people had undertaken satisfactory training and demonstrated competence, they would still be refused a FAC to carry (the 1997 Act notwithstanding). FWIW, I have no desire to carry, I'm merely engaging in debate. :-) --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Drugs
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] We are WAY off topic here, and this thread should be killed (but not before I chuck in 2p's worth). >From: "David Rovardi", INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Last year it was estimated that 20% of all hospital admins and >upto 45,000 deaths where caused due to legal drugs. Globally? On Radio 4 this morning I heard someone (I think he was called Serle, possibly a police spokesman) said there were 250 drug overdose cases per month in England & Wales (3,000 p.a.) >but compared to >car accidents this is a lot of people. And there are 3-4,000 deaths in road traffic accidents p.a., and ten times that number of serious injuries. (A serious injury includes "any fracture".) So 3,000 drugs overdoses (not necessarily fatal, just overdoses) and 3-4,000 fatalities on the roads. --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-court cases
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > There was another case in London where a guy set up a > booby trap with a shotgun to blast burglars, I can't > remember off-hand if he did actually end up blasting someone > (I seem to recall it did go off) and he received quite a > light sentence for illegal possession. Read the book "Weapons Law" a few years go. It mentioned the use of a "spring gun" under certain condidtions within a dewlling. Any one know what the definition of said device is? Surely IG must know? Jonathan Laws -- Setting a booby trap is illegal but I think the judge took pity in this case because there had been so many break-ins before that it was considered a reasonable thing to do. Not in this country, but I can remember a guy in Dade County Florida who set up a boobytrap by electrifying the grill over the air-conditioning vent on his premises as he correctly surmised it was the only way of breaking in successfully. He electrocuted a teenager one night, but he did manage to get away with it after a protracted court battle. The reason boobytraps are illegal is that it is difficult to prove intent. If you kill someone with a weapon, you are liable, and it is obvious what your intent was. If you kill them with a boobytrap, it becomes a lot more grey as to who is responsible and what the actual intent of the person was who set the boobytrap. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-self defence
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > suggest you join the NRA of America, IG, and read the Armed > Citizen column. Try, "more Guns less crime" by John Lott. I've got a copy you can borrow if you want. Jonathan Laws -- The problem with that book is that you need a degree in statistical analysis to understand it. The Armed Citizen book contains summaries of several hundred (probably thousands) of newspaper articles going back decades of people who defended themselves with guns. More anecdotal perhaps but much more interesting to read. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Field-.458
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > I thought that article about the guy whose tendons wore out > after 30,000 rounds of .44 Magnum was interesting. I wonder > how many rounds of .458 Win. Mag. would do it? I remember reading a while ago about one of the American Gun writers (big bloke who's name escapes me but shoots lots of big guns) who shot something like 1000 rounds of full charge .44 mag in a day of shooting, the next day he found his shooting hand was virtually immoveable and he couldn't write properly for a week. In Ross Seyfried's article in 1988 about the .475 Linebaugh revolver there was a chart comparing relative recoil forces of various pistols. Recoil of a .44 Mag with standard 240 grn full charge loads at about 1500 fps was about 19ft/lbs, the .475 Linebaugh with 440 grn bullets doing 1400 fps produced 53 ft/lbs of recoil. God knows what a .458 Win Mag revolver produces. Jonathan Laws. -- Fortunately the Swiss know mathematics. Recoil energy is listed at 42.7J with a 510gr bullet! Muzzle energy is 4355J, with a 300gr bullet it is a staggering 5116J! By comparison a .22 has about 100J of muzzle energy, a .44 Magnum has about 1000J of muzzle energy and recoil energy is around 20J. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-self defence
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > The Norwegian Prime Minister. Heh, got ya IG it was the Swedish PM. He was shot in Stockholm when returning with his wife from the Cinema one evening, a bloke walked out from a side Street and killed him with a .357, he didn't have any body guards with him at the time. A guy was arrested for it but released, a bit of a druggie and known criminal. Apparently theories as to who did it have ranged from South African assasins who didn't like his anti apartied (spelling?) stance to Turkish immigrant crime gangs to the Swedish Police for one reason or another. Another theory says that he simply looked like a local criminal and was killed by mistake. Seemingly the guy they arrested for it was a well known local thug who looks pretty scary, my girlfriend has met him on the Stockholm underground a few times. Jonathan Laws Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-self defence
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In my opinion, tempered by many years of experience, both as an armed and > unarmed officer, the use of a firearm as defence against sudden or > unexpected attack is of very little value. It is impossible to assess, > react, draw and fire an accurately placed shot if the assailant is attacking > you with even a knife from less than 27 feet away. Considerably more for > most people, and triple that at least in the dark. If that person is using a > firearm, then there is even less chance of success. If they come from > behind, as muggers often do, then you have no chance. A knife pressed > against your ribs is going to deter any sudden movement from you, and we > then have a stolen firearm to add to the crime report and insurance claim. > The quickest draw is to have the gun in the hand prior to the need for > drawing arising. To follow that to its logical conclusion, you would have to > walk around with the gun in your hand. Can you imagine the streets? Well if it's so unlikely to do any good, why do the Police need them? Jonathan Laws Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-drugs
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > even in places > like Switzerland where heroin use was effectively decriminalised > for some time. But you said it yourself in an earlier post, decriminalisation is not the point as it dosen't remove the dodgy characters and their crappy products. Establishing a proper statutory system of controls that can be regulated is a different story alltogether. Jonathan Laws -- I'm convinced with heroin at least it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference, with cannabis it would. Heroin is addictive, most of the crime is indirect in that people thieve to support their habit, rather than the crime being directly caused by the drug dealers. Sean arguing about the cost of drugs is also not accurate, drugs are inexpensive, but people still steal to support their habit because if you have that habit you cannot support yourself. Legalisation of non-addictive drugs makes some sense provided the drug itself is not very harmful, but legalisation of addictive drugs that are also harmful would not help, IMO. Tobacco and caffeine are addictive, but they are not very harmful, so there is not much of a problem. Ecstacy can be harmful, but it's not addictive. It's where you have the two characteristics together that you have a problem that would not be solved by legalisation, because the cost/benefit analysis doesn't hold up. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
