RE: eCash reported mortally wounded...
On Sun, 9 Dec 2001, Lucky Green wrote: --Lucky, waiting patiently for 2005. Patent expiration date? Which one? -- Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a __ ICBMTO: N48 04'14.8'' E11 36'41.2'' http://www.leitl.org 57F9CFD3: ED90 0433 EB74 E4A9 537F CFF5 86E7 629B 57F9 CFD3
Re: UPI editor: dissent is like soviet propoganda
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Turner, like many rich and powerful people, is a socialist. Only to be expected, since socialism ties the peasant to the land, and the laborer to the bench. About 3 years ago I found out that I could understand some of your postings by exchanging the words socialism for capitalism when ever they occurred - you fell for the Soviet lie that called their oppressive state capitalism by the name of socialism...
At Your Service # 427
Title: Executive Guild Membership ApplicationResponse-O-Matic Form Dear Candidate, You have been selected as a potential candidate for a free listing in the 2002 Edition of the International Executive Guild Registry. Please accept our congratulations for this coveted honor. As this edition is so important in view of the new millennium, the International Executive Guild Registry will be published in two different formats; the searchable CD-ROM and the Online Registry. Since inclusion can be considered recognition of your career position and professionalism, each candidate is evaluated in keeping with high standards of individual achievement. In light of this, the International Executive Guild thinks that you may make an interesting biographical subject. We look forward to your inclusion and appearance in the International Executive Guild's Registry. Best wishes for your continued success. International Executive Guild Listing Dept. If you wish to be removed from our list, please submit your request at the bottom of this email. International Executive Guild Registration Form (US and Canada Only) Please fill out this form if you would like to be included on The International Executive Guild, For accuracy and publication purposes, please complete and send this form at the earliest opportunity. There is no charge or obligation to be listed on The International Executive Guild. Your Name Your Company Title Address City State or Province Country USACanada ZIP/Postal Code Day Time Telephone Home Phone (Not To Be Published) Email TO HELP US IN CONSIDERING YOUR APPLICATION, PLEASE TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT YOURSELF... Your Business (Financial Svcs, Banking, Computer Hardware, Software, Professional Svcs, Chemicals, Apparel, Aerospace, Food, Government, Utility, etc.) Type of Organization (Mfg, Dist/Wholesaler, Retailer, Law Firm, Investment Bank, Commercial Bank, University, Financial Consultants, Ad Agency, Contractor, Broker, etc.) Your Business Expertise (Corp.Mgmt, Marketing, Civil Engineering, Tax Law, Nuclear Physics, Database Development, Operations, Pathologist, Mortgage Banking, etc.) Major Product Line (Integrated Circuits, Commercial Aircraft, Adhesives, Cosmetics, Plastic Components, Snack Foods, etc.) Note: Submitting this form will be made by email, not by use of www. Confirmation of its delivery is made by browsing your outgoing mail. Thank you for filling in this form, we will contact you with more information. List Removal Click Here
At Your Service # 427
Title: Executive Guild Membership ApplicationResponse-O-Matic Form Dear Candidate, You have been selected as a potential candidate for a free listing in the 2002 Edition of the International Executive Guild Registry. Please accept our congratulations for this coveted honor. As this edition is so important in view of the new millennium, the International Executive Guild Registry will be published in two different formats; the searchable CD-ROM and the Online Registry. Since inclusion can be considered recognition of your career position and professionalism, each candidate is evaluated in keeping with high standards of individual achievement. In light of this, the International Executive Guild thinks that you may make an interesting biographical subject. We look forward to your inclusion and appearance in the International Executive Guild's Registry. Best wishes for your continued success. International Executive Guild Listing Dept. If you wish to be removed from our list, please submit your request at the bottom of this email. International Executive Guild Registration Form (US and Canada Only) Please fill out this form if you would like to be included on The International Executive Guild, For accuracy and publication purposes, please complete and send this form at the earliest opportunity. There is no charge or obligation to be listed on The International Executive Guild. Your Name Your Company Title Address City State or Province Country USACanada ZIP/Postal Code Day Time Telephone Home Phone (Not To Be Published) Email TO HELP US IN CONSIDERING YOUR APPLICATION, PLEASE TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT YOURSELF... Your Business (Financial Svcs, Banking, Computer Hardware, Software, Professional Svcs, Chemicals, Apparel, Aerospace, Food, Government, Utility, etc.) Type of Organization (Mfg, Dist/Wholesaler, Retailer, Law Firm, Investment Bank, Commercial Bank, University, Financial Consultants, Ad Agency, Contractor, Broker, etc.) Your Business Expertise (Corp.Mgmt, Marketing, Civil Engineering, Tax Law, Nuclear Physics, Database Development, Operations, Pathologist, Mortgage Banking, etc.) Major Product Line (Integrated Circuits, Commercial Aircraft, Adhesives, Cosmetics, Plastic Components, Snack Foods, etc.) Note: Submitting this form will be made by email, not by use of www. Confirmation of its delivery is made by browsing your outgoing mail. Thank you for filling in this form, we will contact you with more information. List Removal Click Here
At Your Service # 427
Title: Executive Guild Membership ApplicationResponse-O-Matic Form Dear Candidate, You have been selected as a potential candidate for a free listing in the 2002 Edition of the International Executive Guild Registry. Please accept our congratulations for this coveted honor. As this edition is so important in view of the new millennium, the International Executive Guild Registry will be published in two different formats; the searchable CD-ROM and the Online Registry. Since inclusion can be considered recognition of your career position and professionalism, each candidate is evaluated in keeping with high standards of individual achievement. In light of this, the International Executive Guild thinks that you may make an interesting biographical subject. We look forward to your inclusion and appearance in the International Executive Guild's Registry. Best wishes for your continued success. International Executive Guild Listing Dept. If you wish to be removed from our list, please submit your request at the bottom of this email. International Executive Guild Registration Form (US and Canada Only) Please fill out this form if you would like to be included on The International Executive Guild, For accuracy and publication purposes, please complete and send this form at the earliest opportunity. There is no charge or obligation to be listed on The International Executive Guild. Your Name Your Company Title Address City State or Province Country USACanada ZIP/Postal Code Day Time Telephone Home Phone (Not To Be Published) Email TO HELP US IN CONSIDERING YOUR APPLICATION, PLEASE TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT YOURSELF... Your Business (Financial Svcs, Banking, Computer Hardware, Software, Professional Svcs, Chemicals, Apparel, Aerospace, Food, Government, Utility, etc.) Type of Organization (Mfg, Dist/Wholesaler, Retailer, Law Firm, Investment Bank, Commercial Bank, University, Financial Consultants, Ad Agency, Contractor, Broker, etc.) Your Business Expertise (Corp.Mgmt, Marketing, Civil Engineering, Tax Law, Nuclear Physics, Database Development, Operations, Pathologist, Mortgage Banking, etc.) Major Product Line (Integrated Circuits, Commercial Aircraft, Adhesives, Cosmetics, Plastic Components, Snack Foods, etc.) Note: Submitting this form will be made by email, not by use of www. Confirmation of its delivery is made by browsing your outgoing mail. Thank you for filling in this form, we will contact you with more information. List Removal Click Here
At Your Service # 427
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Crypto Informants
According to the New York Times today the US Customs Service will be asking businesses to report suspicious customer requests for a range of threatening technologies, including encryption devices. For publication we'd like to hear of examples of Customs contact about informing on crypto customers or about reporting downloads of free crypto if the request covers that as well: how the contact was made, the terms of the request, whether the reports are to be confidential, and any other useful information on broadening crypto controls. Cryptome offers most of versions of free PGP from 2.62 through 7.03 as well as a directory for getting numerous crypto programs around the globe. No record is kept of downloads. http://jya.com/crypto-free.htm
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Re: [frissell@panix.com: What's Our National Identity?]
On Sun, Dec 09, 2001 at 03:37:52AM -0800, Tim wrote: this ID card is going to commonly be used as more than an identification card is itself irresponsible, until he can offer something a little bit more cogently persuasive. Of course proposals that have been floated, the trend in databasification, and Duncan's own knowledge in this area are pretty persuasive. -Declan
Re: NYTimes: Bellisle book embroiled in a scandal
On Monday, December 10, 2001, at 02:17 AM, Marcel Popescu wrote: December 8, 2001 Historian's Prizewinning Book on Guns Is Embroiled in a Scandal By ROBERT F. WORTH http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/08/books/08GUNS.html Only a year ago, Michael A. Bellesiles was well on his way to becoming an academic superstar. He had just published a book with a startling thesis: very few people owned working guns in colonial America. Stepping into the ferocious national debate over guns and the meaning of the Second Amendment, Mr. Bellesiles, a history professor at Emory University in Atlanta, caused a sensation. Legal scholars said his prize-winning book could influence federal court cases challenging gun laws; gun-control advocates championed ...rest of long article snipped... Nothing very surprising about this tale. How to Do Research in the Social Sciences, Rev. 3.7 * Find a thesis which is politically correct and which your university would be proud to stand behind (Examples: womyn and other persyns of color have been systematically marginalized by the white male patriarchal capitalist system, fast food is being modified by genetic engineering of grains and beef to make workers in factories more compliant, guns are not part of the Second Amendment, the Sun People of Africa invented most of what the European Ice People later stole from them.) * Interview those who support the thesis (Example: Interview professors who argue that the Ice People of Europe suppressed the scientific discoveries made in Timbuktu and Shalalalatiqua and secretly took them to Cairo and Athens; argue that the reason these professors are not being published in major journals is ipso facto evidence that the Neanderthal-descended white ogres are continuing to repress work of persyns of color.) * Reject any research materials which contradict the thesis, as these results are obviously inconsistent with the aspirations of marginalized peoples and are almost certainly false plants by the whitemale rape system * Mix in some mathbabble from the single math class you took your freshpersyn year (Example: We see from Table 17 that a least squares fit of the data show a reduction in infant mortality in communities where hate speech has been outlawed.) * Defend Marxism: though it is dying out everywhere else in the world, American and European universities will keep hope alive. (Africa is not counted here, as it has no universities except in whitemale dominated slave regimes.) * Draw sweeping conclusions your university colleagues can be proud of * Keep your notes one yellow pads which can be conveniently misfiled, burned, or destroyed by floods. Remember that computers were stolen from the black womyn of Africa many centuries ago! * Finally, it is not an academic crime to falsify data if all one is doing is correcting the previous falsehoods of the patriarchy!
Re: UPI editor: dissent is like soviet propoganda
-- On 10 Dec 2001, at 0:00, Jim Choate wrote: This is laughable, and a tad repetitive... You say you've checked [Chomsky's] sources and found them lacking. And I have given numerous examples, to which no one has replied, except as mattd has recently done -- by citing Chomsky as evidence for the truthfulness of Chomsky, much after the fashion of a Christian who cites the bible as proof of the divinity of Jesus, and Jesus as proof of the infallibility of the bible. As I've requested before, list the book and the cite. And as I have answered before, my favorite examples, not because they are the most glaringly fabricated, but because they are the most cynically evil, are those I gave in http://www.jim.com/chomsdis.htm Chomsky's lies on Cambodia are no more flagrant than his lies on any other subject, but they are more entertaining and obvious because the Soviet line, and thus the Chomsky line, changed at the start of 1979, with the result that Pol Pot was abruptly rewritten from being a heroic defender of the oppressed masses against US imperialism, to being a tool of the CIA. That web page gives my favorite example, among many examples, of Chomsky giving a fabricated citation: These reports also emphasize [] repeated discoveries that massacre reports were false. We have repeatedly had long threads about that alleged discovery that massacres reports in Cambodia were false. The materials he cites fail to produce the discovery he claims. I have been throwing that one in you guys faces for many years, over and over again. No one has come back with a quote from those sources that would make Chomsky's account of what is to be found in them true. More recently, there was a sequel to Chomsky's lies on Cambodia, which probably has not yet been discussed on this list, in the usual exhausting detail. In the New York Times, June 23, 1997, Anthony Lewis briefly and in passing mentioned Chomsky's pre 1979 position on Cambodia. In response, Chomsky wrote a letter to the editor denying that he had ever held that position. Thus in this letter, Chomsky falsely cites Chomsky. This letter was not published in the New York Times, perhaps because it was largely irrelevant to the major points of Anthony Lewis's article, but was published on a web site controlled by Chomsky at the URL http://www.mediawatch.org/chicago/chomsky.html. After I repeatedly assailed him on this new lie, he pulled it off his web site, but it can still be accessed by the wayback machine: http://web.archive.org/web/19981202225344/http://www.mediawatch.org/chicago/chomsky.html Anthony Lewis in the New York times, June 23 1997, very briefly in passing excused Chomsky as follows: : : A few Western intellectuals, notably Prof. Noam : : Chomsky, refused to believe what was going on in : : Cambodia. At first, at least, they put the : : reports of killing down to a conspiratorial : : effort by American politicians and press to : : destroy the Cambodian revolution. : : : : That phenomenon or something like it -- : : explaining away reports of human rights : : violations as a Western way of interfering in : : other societies -- has recurred. When Idi Amin : : seized power in Uganda and began his massacres, I : : heard an American specialist on Africa dismiss : : the accounts. implying that Chomsky was merely mistaken, rather than untruthful or deluded, and failing to mention that Chomsky was one of those western experts that dismissed the crimes of Idi Amin. In response to this brief, gentle and euphemistic admonition Chomsky wrote an outraged letter to the editor as follows: : : Dear Editor: : : : : Anthony Lewis writes (June 23) that I refused to : : believe what was going on in Cambodia, and put : : the reports of killing down to a conspiratorial : : effort by American politicians and press to : : destroy the Cambodian revolution. The second : : charge is an invention. The first is his : : rendition of my suggestion that in dealing with : : horrendous crimes, one should try to keep to the : : truth, whoever the agent: for Cambodia, that : : means during both halves of the decade of : : genocide, as the years 1969-79 are described in : : the one governmental inquiry (Finland). At the : : time I reviewed these and many other cases, : : including the grisly record of Khmer Rouge : : barbarity. : : : : More interesting than the invented charges is : : what Lewis omits: my comparison of two huge : : crimes of 1975-1978, Cambodia and East Timor. The : : cases are not identical. There was no : : constructive proposal as to how to end or even : : mitigate Pol Pot's crimes (as a check of Lewiss : : columns will illustrate). In contrast, there were : : easy ways to respond to the crimes in Timor, : : apparently the worst slaughter relative to : :
jamesd on chompsky is like soviet propaganda
James A. Donald: Chomsky is a long exposed commie liar, and if CNN was not commie enough for him, that is because Stalin was not commie enough for him. mattd: Any discriminating cypherpunk who reads chomskys ,'Objectivity and liberal scholarship. and views jamesd's website on spain will see who the liar is. As evidence for the truthfullness of Chomsky you cite Chomsky!!! AND You say you've checked [Chomsky's] sources and found them lacking. And I have given numerous examples, to which no one has replied, except as mattd has recently done -- by citing Chomsky as evidence for the truthfulness of Chomsky, much after the fashion of a Christian who cites the bible as proof of the divinity of Jesus, and Jesus as proof of the infallibility of the bible. As evidence for the truth on spain I prefer chompsky to james and I suggest cypherpunks that like to pose as 'anarchists' and espouse crypto-'anarchy' compare and contrast. Jamesd is a latter day roy cohn.(and royal con)and I repeat Any discriminating cypherpunk who reads chomskys ,'Objectivity and liberal scholarship. and views jamesd's website on spain will see who the liar is.
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Re: UPI editor: dissent is like soviet propoganda
On Sun, Dec 09, 2001 at 01:18:49PM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For example the viewer sees CBU-15 described as nerve gas. The viewer then sees Moorer and the interviewer talking about a battle in Laos, then there is an editing cut, and then the viewer sees: I don't think your summary is correct. CNN hired an outside reviewer who came up with this report, which recommends retraction of the story but accuses the reporters of no malice: http://www.cnn.com/US/9807/02/tailwind.findings/ -Declan
AP Al Qaeda
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 10:46:06 -0800 Subject: Media Question : : : Hello Mr. Young. My name is Chris Anderson, I am an Associate Producer for a cable television network called TechTV. TechTV is a national cable station specializing in computer and technological based programming, I work for a weekly news magazine show. I am doing a story on a concept called Assassination Politics, which I'm sure as you know, was developed by a man named Jim Bell. I am wondering if I could talk to you about some Cypherpunks being involved. I am also wondering (knowing of course that this is not a Cypherpunks organization only a small group of Cypherpunks who are involved) if you could talk to me about how you feel about AP and it being associated by many with Cypherpunks. you can respond via email or by phone.. my email address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] and my phone number at our San Francisco headquarters is (415) 355-4197. Hope to hear from you soon. Best regards, Chris Anderson TechTV Associate Producer - Chris, AP is a touchy topic for Cypherpunks, whoever they may be. It is likely the USA is attempting to link AP to Cypherpunks for prosecution, so not many will want to talk about the topic. You may know that several cpunks have been drawn into the trials of Jim Bell and Carl Johnson. For Bell's latest trial I was subpoenaed for a grand jury appearance as well as a trial witness. I was questioned in the grand jury about hosting AP on our Web site and it was cited in the trial, though Bell has never been charged for writing the essay. Carl Johnson was convicted of running a spoof of AP. So my opinion is that AP is a lure set out by the authorities to entrap the unwary, Cypherpunks among them. I believe that Bell and Johnson have been, and are continuing to be, a part of that lure, whether witting or unwitting. AP is highy suspect, and becoming more so as it gets additional promotion, not by whatever adherents it may have but by its opponents. I expect AP to be used to advance the anti-terrorism industry now booming. Just keep in mind that AP is a joke among knowledgeable technologists for its unworkability, but a wonderful joke on those who believe it's anything more than a taunt. I said that in the grand jury, but the prosecutor insisted otherwise in the grand jury and in the trial. But AP was successfully used as an Al Qaeda type jury persuader. Narrative combating narrative. Regards, John
Re: FreeSWAN Release 1.93 ships!
Note that to compile FreeS/WAN on Red Hat using the Red Hat kernel-source RPM you need to: rm include/linux/modules/*.ver before you 'make dep'. Otherwise you get module version brokenness. -derek Lucky Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The big question is: will FreeS/WAN latest release after some 4 or 5 years of development finally both compile and install cleanly on current versions of Red Hat Linux, FreeS/WAN's purported target platform? --Lucky, who is bothered by the fact that most his Linux using friends so far have been unable to get FreeS/WAN to even compile into a working kernel, while just about every *BSD distribution - and for that matter Windows XP - ship with a working IPSec implementation out-of-the-box. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Bill Stewart Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 2:05 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: FreeSWAN Release 1.93 ships! From Claudia Schmeing [EMAIL PROTECTED]'s summary: http://lists.freeswan.org/pipermail/briefs/ = 1. Release 1.93 ships! === 1 post Dec 3 http://lists.freeswan.org/pipermail/users/2001-December/005632 .html A number of small improvements have been added to this release, which was shipped on-time. Some highlights: * Diffie-Hellman group 5 is now the first group proposed. * Two cases where fragmentation is needed will be handled better, thanks to these two changes The code that decides whether to send an ICMP complaint back about a packet which had to be fragmented, but couldn't be, has gotten smart enough that we now feel comfortable enabling it by default. and IKE (UDP/500) packets which were large enough to be fragmented used to be mishandled, with some of the fragments failing to bypass IPsec tunnels properly. This has been fixed; our thanks to Hans Schultz. * If Pluto gets more than one RSA key from DNS, it will now try each key. This will help when a system administrator replaces a key. * There is preliminary support for building RPMs. * SMP support is better. * The team has eliminated a vulnerability that might permit a denial of service attack. What can we expect from the next release? Henry Spencer writes: We are in the process of chasing down a couple of significant bugs (which have been there since at least 1.92 and possibly earlier), and we *might* ship another release quite shortly if we nail them down and fix them. If we don't, we won't. Barring that possibility, the next release is planned for the end of January; a more precise date will be announced shortly. - The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending unsubscribe cryptography to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH [EMAIL PROTECTED]PGP key available
Jamesd on me is like soviet propaganda
The trouble is that a lot of socialists call themselves anarchists either as a simple cynical lie: (parody of standard commie liar) : : This time the state really will wither away. : : Trust us. We are different. Once we have total : : power over you and yours you will love it.(jamesd,extract) Yes,so? They are quite easy to expose and I pursue chomsky,Klein and others to pin them down. (mattd extract) The above is about 1 week old ,(Ive made progress in tracing links between klein and chompsky with the ISO.) Well now jamesd comes up with...except as mattd has recently done -- by citing Chomsky as evidence for the truthfulness of Chomsky, much after the fashion of a Christian who cites the bible as proof of the divinity of Jesus, and Jesus as proof of the infallibility of the bible. When all Id done was ask cypherpunks to compare and contrast jamesd and chompsky on the specific question of spain. Those using the word anarchy might have some interest as might those wondering about the truthfulness (or sanity) of cypherpunks regular jamesd. I might just say at this point that I dont cite jim bell in the fashion of a christian...etc or indeed anyone.Im a skeptic as well as an anarchist.good business is where you find it
Nov-L: Narco News wins big! http://www.narconews.com/ (fwd)
-- Forwarded message -- Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:45:00 -0800 From: Nora Callahan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Nov-L: Narco News wins big! http://www.narconews.com/ November Coalition members: For about a year we have been covering this story in the Razor Wire and periodic updates on this elist. Nora Subj:Ross Regnart: Al Giordano won his case against Bank in Mexico now owned by Citibank Date: 12/8/2001 11:00:16 PM Eastern Standard Time From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ross) To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] December 8, 2001 A Narco News Global Celebration! Narco News Beats Banamex! -- NY State Supreme Court Dismisses All Charges against Mario Menéndez, Al Giordano and The Narco News Bulletin -- Narco-Bankers Failed Despite Citigroup Merger -- Judge Paula Omansky: Free Speech Champion -- Narco-Lobbyists at Akin Gump Strauss Hauer and Feld humilliated; McLish filed an insufficient complaint -- NO Jurisdiction over authentic journalist Mario Menéndez, publisher and editor of the daily Por Esto! in Mexico -- Insufficient Complaint vs. Narco News and Al Giordano -- The Drug War Went on Trial And The Drug War Lost Stay Tuned for a Full Report: http://www.narconews.com/ Narco News offers its profound thanks to our readers for your support throughout this expensive attack on our free speech and press freedom. We thank the many people who donated large and small contributions to the Drug War on Trial defense fund to defeat the billionaires' abuse of the legal system to attack cyber-liberties. We extend our congratulations and gratitude to Mario Menéndez in Mérida, Yucatan, for his heroic work exposing corrupt white-collar drug traffickers and how the US DEA and other government agencies protect them. Mario started a movement. And this movement, to expose the real powers behind the corrupt war on drugs, and to end the drug prohibition from which they profit, will continue, and will triumph. We have not yet begun to fight! We offer our most profound thanks to Tom Lesser, counsel to Narco News, and everyone at Lesser, Newman, Souweine and Nasser of Northampton, Massachusetts, particularly Libby Spencer and Karen Thatcher, who beat the biggest lawyer-lobbyist firm in the world. Tom Lesser pitched a no-hitter against the Akin Gumpsters, the overpaid incompetents who struck out at every time at bat against the great civil liberties and free-speech barrister from Massachusetts. It is fair to say that without Tom Lesser, this immense victory would not have been possible. We also thank the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF), who valiently filed an amicus brief on behalf of The Narco News Bulletin when other press freedom institutions ran from the fight. We also thank Marty Garbus, David Atlas and the team who defended Mario Menendez so ably, whose teamwork and experience made this defense unstoppable against the biggest of foes. And we thank all the many colleagues in authentic journalism who wrote about, spoke about, reported on and investigated this case, and in every single instance concluded what NY State Supreme Court Justice Paula Omansky has just ruled: This billionaire's lawsuit should never have been brought. We are sure we have more people to thank, but frankly, it is Saturday Night in a country called América, a night to celebrate. It's a world dance party, from Cochabamba to your town. But be assured: We are not done with the billionaire Plaintiffs in this case. They abused the court system and used their overpowering wealth to try to overpower us. And they failed. We will consult with our attorneys and co-defendant, and announce the next step in our legal strategy shortly. The aggressors will not be let off the hook. We have anticipated this victory, and now phase two begins. To repeat: ALL three charges against all three defendants in the case of Banco Nacional de Mexico (Banamex) vs. Mario Menéndez, Al Giordano and Narco News have been dismissed by the New York State Supreme Court. Impacting... From somewhere in a country called América, Al Giordano Publisher The Narco News Bulletin http://www.narconews.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- The November Coalition, founded in 1997 is a 501 (c) (3) nonprofit organization, your gifts are tax deductible. You can send your donation to: The November Coalition 795 South Cedar Colville, WA 99114 November-L is a voluntary mailing list of the November Coalition. To unsubscribe, visit http://www.november.org/lists/ or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the command unsubscribe
Re: AP Al Qaeda
John Young writes, regarding Assassination Politics: AP is a touchy topic for Cypherpunks, whoever they may be. It is likely the USA is attempting to link AP to Cypherpunks for prosecution, so not many will want to talk about the topic. Cypherpunks pioneered the use of encryption and anonymity for many purposes, but one of them was precisely this: to allow discussion of forbidden subjects. So my opinion is that AP is a lure set out by the authorities to entrap the unwary, Cypherpunks among them. I believe that Bell and Johnson have been, and are continuing to be, a part of that lure, whether witting or unwitting. That's bullshit. Surely you can't deny that AP was conceived by Bell exactly as what it was claimed to be, a tool to be used against government agents who overstep their authority and violate the rights of American citizens. (And as an important consequence it would therefore encourage governments to behave legally and respectfully towards their citizens, as they should.) Bell certainly did not conceive of AP as a way of entrapping cypherpunks. He didn't even know about cypherpunks when he came up with the idea. AP is highy suspect, and becoming more so as it gets additional promotion, not by whatever adherents it may have but by its opponents. I expect AP to be used to advance the anti-terrorism industry now booming. Just keep in mind that AP is a joke among knowledgeable technologists for its unworkability, but a wonderful joke on those who believe it's anything more than a taunt. Total bullshit again. Sure, AP requires anonymous digital cash, but so do most other elements of the cypherpunk vision. Would you say that crypto anarchy, information black markets, and commerce among pseudonyms are a joke? These are just as hypothetical as AP at present. It's entirely possible that some form of anonymous cash will be developed in the next few years, and once that happens AP will be trivial to implement. It's far from a joke, it is a very real possibility. AP is part of the dark side of the cypherpunk dream and it must be faced rather than evaded. The real problem with AP is not that it would be illegal, because much of what cypherpunks call for is presently illegal. Rather, the problem with AP is that it is mob rule at its worst. There are no checks and balances. It is the height of folly to suppose that AP would be used only against those whom cypherpunks themselves oppose, like corrupt government agents. AP could be used against anyone who has a high profile. If AP were implemented, there is no question but that Jim Bell would be one of the first targets! All those people who found himself on his list, along with their heirs and successors, would want revenge. Everyone involved with the assassinations would be anonymous except Bell himself, making him the most prominent target of their wrath. Other notable supporters of crypto anarchy would follow soon, such as cypherpunk founders May and Hughes. The people involved with the digital cash would be targets as well, and so on. Despite these unpleasant facts, once digital cash exists, AP will be inevitable, along with many other forms of anonymous murder-for-hire. Cypherpunks have discussed these possibilities from the very beginning. To pretend that AP is somehow outside of the scope of cypherpunk thinking, a hoax or joke perpetrated by outsiders as a lure, is just absurd. With crypto anarchy you have to take the bad with the good. What, then, is the solution to survival in a world of assassins at large? It is simple, and it is in fact the same as the solution to the problem of how to discuss AP in a world in which even mentioning it could get you arrested, the problem which led to John Young's dissembling above. Perhaps the alert reader will be able to conceive of the solution for himself.
Re: UPI editor: dissent is like soviet propoganda
On Mon, 10 Dec 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And I have given numerous examples, to which no one has replied, except as mattd has recently done -- by citing Chomsky as evidence for the truthfulness of Chomsky, much after the fashion of a Christian who cites the bible as proof of the divinity of Jesus, and Jesus as proof of the infallibility of the bible. [text deleted] Not true. I've asked several times for clarification and never(!!!) received anything from you in responce. I'll look into the text I deleted since it will take a few minutes to review. I'll let you know what I think of your analysis of Chomsky's views. -- Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind. Bumper Sticker The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
Re: AP Al Qaeda
Whatever promise AP has for its avowed purpose, so far it has helped to jail a couple of guys and smear a few more while boosting the careers of several alleged targets. Talking about AP in public is still going on, here and elsewhere. Disagreeing about it too. Take it seriously or as a joke, take your pick. Nothing in the essay proves it's serious or a joke. Its quality appears to be determined by the credulity of the reader. I like its jokey aspects more than the other. But that's my feeling about this forum too. The thrill continues, trying to figure out who is serious and how is joking and who is laying the traps. The more serious posts here are the best, but mattd is coming on swell for a standoff comic. True that not everyone likes the humor of political agitation, and prefer a somber aping of the pols and mils and edus flogging non-fictional aspirations to right what's wrong, delusional ravings presented as insight. Jim Bell would have made AP an underground comedy if he had hung out with the time-wasterists at MIT rather than with the techno-commercialists. But I think his techno-political potboiler succeeds by making a comical wrong turn into the pokey, not once but twice, and inspiring CJ to follow, and mattd, and surely more to come as the AP PR machine gains momentum. A lesson to be learned by the politico-religio-righteous.
AP Al Quim
I hope tech tv does a story on this that enlightens the victorian police and they return the dell cs latitude they stole from me.If AP is illegal I want my day in court.I mantain,with bell,that 'AP' comes with the territory and cant be outlawed without 1984 type totalitarianism.Some type of AP will help usher in ecash and crypto anarchy will take off.Peace,luv and happiness. mattd AKA [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Macedon ranges Guardian.fri.june 8.page 3 headline story. M1 PROTESTER GIVEN BAIL-BUT OTHER POLICE INTERESTED A Kyneton man involved in the recent M1 protest in melb.has been accused of promoting what is reffered to as 'assasination politics',and is said to have come to the notice of the United States Secret Service and the Australian Federal Police. Assasination politics,according to the police,is the practice of nominating a person for assasination,inviting the general public to contribute money to a bank account and funding the assasination with the proceeds. Police charged Matthew Stephen Taylor last Friday over the vandelism of a McDonalds fast food outlet during the anti-globalisation protest on may 1. Charges are also pending against Taylor in relation to his alleged Internet activities. On Monday Taylor,46 of Baynton st,Kyneton applied for bail at Kyneton Magistrates Court.Taylor faced two counts of criminal damage and three counts of acting in a manner prejudicial to the good order of a police jail. As Taylor was led into court,he protested his innocence and described Bendigo remand where he had spent the weekend as a 'hell hole'Inside the court he adressed Magistrate William Gibb as Your Highness He told Mr Gibb he disagreed with his position on drugs and compared it with the 1930s prohibition on alcohol.He was reffering to the previous defendant who appeared on drug related charges. Taylor was supported in court by his father,Ken Taylor,a Mount Macedon poet who was recently awarded the Kenneth Slessor Prize for poetry at the New South Wales Premiers Awards. Prosecutor,Senior Constable Martin Holland said Taylors application for bail was not opposed but he asked Mr Gibb to impose six conditions. The first condition was not to post threatening text on the internet toward any person whether located in Australia or elsewhere in the world Sen.Const Holland said Taylor had made threats on the internet and a computor from Taylors Kyneton adress had been seized and conveyed to Melbourne for examination. Sen.Cons.Holland defended the wording of the first condition by saying it was not a blanket ban on all internet useage. The second condition prohibited Taylor from participating in assasination politics. ...The third condition was not to engage any other person in the first two things. The remaining conditions included a prohibition on Taylor participating in Melbourne demonstrations. Sen.Const.Holland said police had been watching Taylors activities on the website www.indymedia.org with some interest.He said anyone could download information onto the site.He said Taylor was known on the site as the 'nutty proffessor'and had posted a message on the site to chief commissioner of victoria Police,Christine Nixon.Sen.Const. Holland said the message stated that ...should you persist with this folly one of your number will be selected for retirement,i.e.execution. The prosecution called Senior Constable Nicholas Conte who said he had investigated video and photographic footage from the May 1 protest,including video footage of Taylor in an interview with Herald Sun journalist Peter Mickleburough.In it Sen.Conts.Conte said Taylor reffered to himself as Robin Banks.He said the name was on the indymedia website and was traced back to Taylors adress by the computor Crime Unit. He explained the concept of assasination politics to the court and said he believed it originated in the United States where a man named Bell is currently under sentence in relation to it.He said based on comments Taylor had made on the internet he believed the defendant was advertising and trying to gain support for assasination politics. He doesnt make any qualms about that.Sen.Const.Conte said. Asked by Mr Gibb what the reality of all this was,Sen.Const.Conte replied that he could not gauge the reality,he could only look at the probability. Under cross-examination from defense solicitor,Mr Cameron Ford,Sen.Const.Conte conceded he did not know if assasination politics had ever resulted in an assasination or attempted assasination.He said the investigation was continuing,with the Computor Crime Squad yet to look at the content of Taylor's computor files. Sen.Const.Holland said Taylors activities had attracted the attention of the US Secret Service and Australian Federal police. Mr Gibb said he did not doubt it,but expressed reservations about the conditions proposed for Taylor's bail. It just seems to be a nonsense.Im being asked to impose all these conditions that bare no relevance to
AP Al quim
Rather, the problem with AP is that it is mob rule at its worst. There are no checks and balances. It is the height of folly to suppose that AP would be used only against those whom cypherpunks themselves oppose, like corrupt government agents. AP could be used against anyone who has a high profile. If AP were implemented, there is no question but that Jim Bell would be one of the first targets! All those people who found himself on his list, along with their heirs and successors, would want revenge. Everyone involved with the assassinations would be anonymous except Bell himself, making him the most prominent target of their wrath. Other notable supporters of crypto anarchy would follow soon, such as cypherpunk founders May and Hughes. The people involved with the digital cash would be targets as well, and so on. Extract from 'nomen nescio' There are checks and balances,get a grip.Read the essay.Its self limiting.No one who is anonymous has anything to fear from AP.They do have a lot to fear from the rogue terror state USA. Bell and I are willing to die,maybe even cj.It will be worth it and theoretically no one need die.Would you start paying to have people killed risking the knowledge of that getting out? There is a disgusting lack of belief in peoples common sense and decency on this list,refs to 'sheeple' etc.Tim said its an openly elitist list once.Thats distorted your view of humanity I think.Tim is too fearful of AP as one of the 4 horsemen. I worry more about pedophiles,the end result of turbocharged capitalism.There are pedo brothel owners that need to be nominated for operation soft drill.I need their names.
Re: Congress of the rat.
On Sun, 9 Dec 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- On 10 Dec 2001, at 16:20, mattd wrote: Was it Chomsky who pointed out that the capitalist firm is structured like a totalitarian state? The difference is that you can change firms, or start your own, without being shot. Which comes more from the involvement of government than any inherent ethical peak capitalism may aspire to (it doesn't so your point is moot unless you also admit the utility of having governments as intermediaries is a positive - can't see a CACL supporter as yourself going that route). -- Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind. Bumper Sticker The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
Re: AP Al quim
On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, mattd wrote: There are checks and balances,get a grip.Read the essay. No, there are not. Its self limiting.No one who is anonymous has anything to fear from AP. The only way that AP would be harmless to an anonymous person is if they were anonymous to EVERYONE. The entire point of AP is to provide a mechanism to reach ANYONE who might infringe upon your 'rights'. Trying to pitch AP as if only certain classes of people are at risk is simply ignorance (you didn't really read AP now did you) or else you intentionaly misrepresent. Either way, your point isn't valid. -- Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind. Bumper Sticker The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
Delinquent orifacer list
Subject: RE: Delinquent officer list Thank you for your Internet inquiry. Your message referred to a Jeff Gordon. Is that an employee of the Washington State Department of Revenue? Thank you, Washington State Department of Revenue Information Center -Original Message- From: mattd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 8:28 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Delinquent officer list Agent jeff gordon is requested to supply the following...Tax Reporting Account number Legal Entity name (individual, partnership or a corporation) Original amount of the debt (the current amount due is not disclosable) Date of lien filing Court where the tax lien was filed Date the business license was revoked (if applicable)In relation to abuse of office in bell trial.
The Fading Altruism of Open Source Development
http://firstmonday.org/issues/issue6_12/lancashire/ -- -- Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind. Bumper Sticker The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
Free our friends,all slaves and prisoners of the state
All drug war prisoners,leonard peltier,Mumia,chris boyce,robert hannsen,aldrich ames and all the other world patriots. Also killthepresidentthenthenextonethenthenextfasterpussycatkillkill.OSD international will shortly target US tourists. Punk's attack on the establishment and institutions of the day, its willingness to exploit taboos for fun and proffr, was supremely effective at getting up noses.
Re: will the real capitalism please stand up
On Wednesday, December 5, 2001, at 06:58 PM, mattd wrote: Tim may or a pretender wrote The solution is obvious: capitalism. The real one, not the fascist version. Objectivism the real thing? How do you separate fascism from capitalism? If you have to ask, you don't understand either *at all*. But there is a simple test. Who owns the guns? -- Amendment II, Revised: A well-regulated population being necessary to the security of a police state, the right of the Government to keep and destroy arms shall not be infringed. --Sten Drescher --
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RE: eCash reported mortally wounded...
Lucky Green wrote: Eugene wrote: On Sun, 9 Dec 2001, Lucky Green wrote: --Lucky, waiting patiently for 2005. Patent expiration date? Which one? US Patent 4759063 Blind Signature Systems will expire on July 19, 2005. Given that this is a Tuesday and taking into account that whoever may own the patents at that time is not about to file a patent infringement suit on Monday, the last day the patent is valid, I hereby announce a patent expiration party at my place on Saturday, July 16 2005. No need to wait so long for ecash implementations. Ben Laurie's Lucre software uses Wagner blinding, which is a non-signature based blinding system. The coin can only be verified by the bank, contrary to the definition of a digital signature, so the blind signature patent does not apply. Read more at http://anoncvs.aldigital.co.uk/lucre/.
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Threats to kill,A cry for help
A doctor called Asperger that we'll call Hans Had plenty to do and plenty of plans To name a syndrome after himself So that people like me weren't left on the shelf Many years later thanks to Old Hans People were diagnosed and they became his fans Parents and doctors and teachers alike Understood Asperger Syndrome just like riding a bike They thanked Old Hans many years on As the diagnosis kept going on and on Lots of research does even more good Just like the books by Tony Attwood Hans Asperger is sadly no longer with us But he did leave a lot so that he could give us We thank him for making our lives much easier And I myself feel a whole lot pleasier. QUESTION: Where did the name Asperger Syndrome comes from? ANSWER: Hans Asperger, an Austrian scientist in 1944, discovered the syndrome. He found out why children and adults behaved differently from other people and linked it with autism, except that he found that these people had average or above average intelligence. The word Asperger also seems to be a Dutch word as a language translation website proved, the word means sparrow grass in English. We believe that the words Asperger and asparagus are related to each other as both words translate as exactly the same word. Someone also told me that the French word asperge also seems to be a translation for both Asperger and asparagus.
Re: Spoiling digital cash
At 09:48 PM 12/10/01 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Anonymous wrote: To rip the coin, the passenger gives the taxi driver t = s^e1, along with x. The driver can verify that t^e2 = s^(e1*e2) = s^e1 = x mod n which tells him that it is a real coin. He also sends (t, x) to the bank, which verifies that no such x has been spent before (no double spending) and also stores x as a ripped coin such that only the driver can spend it. Who pays for all this checking? Not only does this require the taxi driver to have a considerable store of computational and algorithmic 'equipment' but he's also got to have a comm channel to the bank. This don't sound cheap to execute at all... Oh, you mean like the $5 charge that Mastercard/Visa charge merchants... this *corroborates* the stuff Hettinga has been saying about it being cheaper to use certain kinds of payment than others.
Re: AP Al quim
At 09:53 AM 12/11/01 +1100, mattd wrote: Tim said its an openly elitist list once. Yes, so is an university. A meritocracy is necessarily discriminatory. Deal with it. AOL has plenty of groups for folks who find this list too abrasive..
Re: Spoiling digital cash
On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, David Honig wrote: this *corroborates* the stuff Hettinga has been saying about it being cheaper to use certain kinds of payment than others. Actually Hettinga's observation is rather obvious. The concept that all exchanges will cost the same is rather self-destructing. Nothing newe there. -- Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind. Bumper Sticker The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
Re: AP Al quim
On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, David Honig wrote: At 09:53 AM 12/11/01 +1100, mattd wrote: Tim said its an openly elitist list once. Yes, so is an university. A meritocracy is necessarily discriminatory. Deal with it. Don't confuse having a high standard of excellence with simple egotism (which is the majority of the cases with both your examples). And no, a meritocracy isn't disriminatory. You get what you put into it, not what somebody else thinks it's worth. -- Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind. Bumper Sticker The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
Re: AP Al quim
At 11:16 PM 12/10/01 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: And no, a meritocracy isn't disriminatory. You get what you put into it, not what somebody else thinks it's worth. Merit is inevitably judged by somebody else. And discriminating on the basis of merit is tautologically discriminatory. D'oh.
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Re: AP Al quim
On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, David Honig wrote: At 11:16 PM 12/10/01 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: And no, a meritocracy isn't disriminatory. You get what you put into it, not what somebody else thinks it's worth. Merit is inevitably judged by somebody else. And discriminating on the basis of merit is tautologically discriminatory. Actually 'merit' isn't. Merit is measured in a meritocracy by the efficacy of the solution. That's a TECHNICAL measure, not emotional or social. Discrimination is inherently ILLOGICAL (ie emotional), which puts it in direct odds with the concept of 'merit'. Further, a meritocracy makes judgements about worth based on the solution not the source. Source filtering is inherent in discrimination, hence they can't be synonymous or layered. D'oh. Doh indeed. -- Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind. Bumper Sticker The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
Re: AP Al quim
At 11:33 PM 12/10/01 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, David Honig wrote: Merit is inevitably judged by somebody else. And discriminating on the basis of merit is tautologically discriminatory. Actually 'merit' isn't. Merit is measured in a meritocracy by the efficacy of the solution. That's a TECHNICAL measure, not emotional or social. But who is the judge of the value of various measures? Discrimination is inherently ILLOGICAL (ie emotional), which puts it in direct odds with the concept of 'merit'. No, you're taking the PC distortion of the word. Without discrimination (of food vs. poison, or good vs. bad behavior for instance) you are dead. Keep your immune system up.
Professor Punished for Witty Remark
There's also a blacklist on the Web of people in academia who have publicly stated less than glowing support for Bush's war against evil. McCarthyism meets Wounded Knee meets Mike Echols. :) - ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. -- A University of New Mexico history professor who joked in class about the Sept. 11 attacks has been barred from teaching freshmen for now, the school said Monday. Professor Richard Berthold will also get a letter of reprimand and undergo review, said Brian L. Foster, university provost. The 55-year-old tenured professor told a freshman history class just after the attacks that anyone who can blow up the Pentagon has my vote. Berthold has apologized for his comment, which he called an incredibly stupid joke. He did not immediately return a phone call Monday. Berthold stayed off campus for a brief period while police investigated obscene and threatening calls to the history department. He also said he was assaulted in front of his home. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law
Thuraya Profits From Satphone Stampede
Thuraya Profits From Satphone Stampede This year's war on terrorism has proved to be a good thing for the Thuraya satphone, with everyone from journalists to warlords buying the phones in Afghanistan. Savanna International Telecommunication, which is selling the phones and service, says it isn't asking any questions; rather, it is just taking in the money. During the past five days, the carrier says it has sold more than 120 sets, and people continue to stand in line for the $700 handsets. Savanna says its phones can't be monitored, but others are skeptical of this claim. Reported by The Gulf News. http://www.offshoretele.com/product/hss.htm
RE: eCash reported mortally wounded...
At 05:52 AM 12/11/2001 +0100, Anonymous wrote: Lucky Green wrote: Eugene wrote: On Sun, 9 Dec 2001, Lucky Green wrote: --Lucky, waiting patiently for 2005. Patent expiration date? Which one? US Patent 4759063 Blind Signature Systems will expire on July 19, 2005. Given that this is a Tuesday and taking into account that whoever may own the patents at that time is not about to file a patent infringement suit on Monday, the last day the patent is valid, I hereby announce a patent expiration party at my place on Saturday, July 16 2005. No need to wait so long for ecash implementations. Ben Laurie's Lucre software uses Wagner blinding, which is a non-signature based blinding system. The coin can only be verified by the bank, contrary to the definition of a digital signature, so the blind signature patent does not apply. Read more at http://anoncvs.aldigital.co.uk/lucre/. No need to wait at all. There was never any serious reason to license the Chaum blinding patents upon which eCash rested. They applied only to the client and their use was or could be made invisible to the mint. Software patents, including Chaum's, are not enforceable in a number of western nations (e.g., Australia, South Africa and New Zealand). Therefore, the development and release of client software with user selectable blinding, with appropriate UI warnings regarding possible patent issues depending upon client jurisdiction, from these locales should not run afoul of international patent laws. steve
RE: FreeSWAN Release 1.93 ships!
On Sunday 09 December 2001 07:32 pm, Lucky Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The big question is: will FreeS/WAN latest release after some 4 or 5 years of development finally both compile and install cleanly on current versions of Red Hat Linux, FreeS/WAN's purported target platform? The latest releases of both Suse and Mandrake are both able to install kernels with Freeswan already integrated. It's a little newer addition to Mandrake, so you may want to use Suse. Suse makes it easy to set up encrypted file systems and other nice features. The major problem that holds back the development of FreeS/WAN is with its management. [Management that cares more about sitting on its pulpit, than getting useful software into the hands of people.] Unless things have changed recently, they still won't accept contributions from the US. This makes no sense. GPG is shipping with every Linux distribution I know of, and the German's take contributions from the US. The primary kernel developers have been willing to integrate crypto into the kernel since the crypto regs were lowered. It's the policy of no US contributions that's holding back Linux IPSEC. IMHO: If Freeswan had never been created, an alternate, more mature implementation would already exist in the mainline Linux kernel. --Anonymous
FW: FreeSWAN Release 1.93 ships!
While I am too far from the process to offer comment to the contents of the post below, the last paragraph of the post in some bizarre way did help crystallize a thought that I knew had been nagging in the back of my mind for months, perhaps as much of a year, but that I just could not quite bring to the foreground. FreeS/WAN occupies a position very rarely found in efficient markets, such as open source software. While the position is rarely encountered, it can nonetheless exist: I believe that FreeS/WAN is a natural monopoly. Natural monopolies are usually only found in extremely small markets. The economic textbook example is a power company on an island of 50 people. The market size is simply too small to sustain the overhead of two companies, no matter how efficient both companies may become. Therefore, the market doesn't attract competitors, even absent any regulatory market distortions. (Hence the natural in natural monopoly :-) But for whatever reasons, FreeS/WAN has been holding such a natural monopoly position in by far the largest market in which I have ever seen such a beast. I find this fascinating. I wonder if economists will some day study the case to determine what factors brought it about. [I presume somebody other than the FreeS/WAN project may have written a few lines of Linux open source IPSec code, but they aren't competitors in that market any more than a guy walking around with a charged car battery offering service would be a competitor to the power company in the island example]. --Lucky, who simply had to share this revelation. Back to writing Mixmaster remailer code. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Anonymous Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 7:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: FreeSWAN Release 1.93 ships! On Sunday 09 December 2001 07:32 pm, Lucky Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The big question is: will FreeS/WAN latest release after some 4 or 5 years of development finally both compile and install cleanly on current versions of Red Hat Linux, FreeS/WAN's purported target platform? The latest releases of both Suse and Mandrake are both able to install kernels with Freeswan already integrated. It's a little newer addition to Mandrake, so you may want to use Suse. Suse makes it easy to set up encrypted file systems and other nice features. The major problem that holds back the development of FreeS/WAN is with its management. [Management that cares more about sitting on its pulpit, than getting useful software into the hands of people.] Unless things have changed recently, they still won't accept contributions from the US. This makes no sense. GPG is shipping with every Linux distribution I know of, and the German's take contributions from the US. The primary kernel developers have been willing to integrate crypto into the kernel since the crypto regs were lowered. It's the policy of no US contributions that's holding back Linux IPSEC. IMHO: If Freeswan had never been created, an alternate, more mature implementation would already exist in the mainline Linux kernel. --Anonymous
Re: FreeSWAN US export controls
Anonymous said: The major problem that holds back the development of FreeS/WAN is with its management. [Management that cares more about sitting on its pulpit, than getting useful software into the hands of people.] Unless things have changed recently, they still won't accept contributions from the US. This makes no sense. GPG is shipping with every Linux distribution I know of, and the German's take contributions from the US. (From the pulpit:) Once we kick John Asscroft's unconstitutional ash outta town, bush George Bust along with more than a thousand other innocents, and eliminate the spectre of Judd Gregg and other retrograde stalinists 're-regulating' US crypto, then we'll think about polluting the precious bodily fluids of worldwide freeware privacy protection with the stench of US crypto policy. It probably won't happen for a few months. Or hadn't you noticed that the US government is not in much of a mood to follow the constitution or to tolerate dissent or privacy among the sleepy sheeplike citizens? They're doing their best to stamp that radical stuff out right here in the USSA, let alone let it cross the border into parts of the world that they don't have firmly under their thumb. Less than 100% support for every paranoid and senseless twitch of the current Administration is a demonstration not not only of treason but of active support for terrorism, which everyone knows is a terrible thing except when the US or Israel or Great Britain does it. Anybody reading this mailing list is already gonna be first up against the wall once the joy of arresting immigrant movers as 'terrorists' fades, and spying on 'domestic political groups' become fair game. Your packets are already in the lint screen on that big, big vacuum cleaner. And our new policy of maximum sentences for trivial 'crimes', like forgetting to file some form, reduces the expense and bother of actually trying suspects for the crimes that the agencies suspect them of. Of course you can confront your accusers! Did you or did you not jaywalk across Route 1 last July, Mr. May? The primary kernel developers have been willing to integrate crypto into the kernel since the crypto regs were lowered. It's the policy of no US contributions that's holding back Linux IPSEC. The reason I started the IPSEC-for-Linux project those many years ago was because Linux kernel releases used to be built in free countries, unlike the releases of most other operating systems. Now they aren't. Oops. Perhaps mr. or ms. 'anonymous' and the primary kernel developers didn't spend seven years making a principled tilt at the windmill of NSA's export controls. We overturned them by a pretty thin margin. The government managed to maneuver such that no binding precedents were set: if they unilaterally change the regulations tomorrow to block the export of public domain crypto, they wouldn't be violating any court orders or any judicial decisions. I.e. they are not BOUND by the policy change. They changed it voluntarily, in order to sneak out of the court cases by the back door. Even today it is sometimes said that once Dan Bernstein ends his court case (which still continues today), the NSA is ready, willing, and able to slap the controls right back on. And it would take months or years in court -- and lots more volunteer citizen money spent for freedom, while the bastards spend tax money to lock us up -- to get the controls removed again. If the judges haven't changed their minds in the meantime. (You may have noticed that last month, the Second Circuit Court of Appeals accpted Judge Kaplan's half-lies-half-truth judgment 3-0 in the 2600 case appeal: Yes, absolutely, software is First Amendment protected speech. But no, somehow the First Amendment really doesn't mean what it means elsewhere; of *course* they can regulate the publication of software on flimsy grounds. Like that sometime later, somebody somewhere might potentially be somewhat hurt by something somebody else does with the software, if we don't eliminate that option by restricting the publication of that software now. Suppose the next crypto export court case happens in NY rather than CA? EFF would be proud to defend John Young and Perry Metzger, but all its lawyers might be in prison, charged by John Asscroft with aiding terrorists by eroding our national unity and diminishing our resolve.) IMHO: If Freeswan had never been created, an alternate, more mature implementation would already exist in the mainline Linux kernel. Make my day. John Gilmore PS: Of course, the only software worth wasting your time on comes from those macho dudes of the U.S. of A. Those furriners don't even know how to speek the lingua proper, let alone write solid buggy code like Microsoft. High crypto math is all Greek to them. It's just lucky for Linus that he moved to the US, otherwise we'd all know his furrin software was crap too, even tho he tricked us by cloning it from
Re: FreeSWAN US export controls
On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, John Gilmore wrote: NSA's export controls. We overturned them by a pretty thin margin. The government managed to maneuver such that no binding precedents were set: if they unilaterally change the regulations tomorrow to block the export of public domain crypto, they wouldn't be violating any court orders or any judicial decisions. I.e. they are not BOUND by the policy change. That's not accurate. There have been several court rulings finding source code and such protected by the 1st. This would provide a lever that was not there previously. -- Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind. Bumper Sticker The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
Re: FreeSWAN unnatural monopolies
FreeS/WAN occupies a position very rarely found in efficient markets, such as open source software. While the position is rarely encountered, it can nonetheless exist: I believe that FreeS/WAN is a natural monopoly. ... But for whatever reasons, FreeS/WAN has been holding such a natural monopoly position in by far the largest market in which I have ever seen such a beast. I find this fascinating. I wonder if economists will some day study the case to determine what factors brought it about. I doubt it. The Linux kernels released by Linus Torvalds hold a similar 'natural monopoly' over every other variant of free operating system kernel. What could explain this puzzling economic phenomenon? Certainly the BSD folks have been puzzled by it. I mean, half a dozen people have rewritten 'grep', because it's just not that hard. And troff was cloned even though it was hard, because the original was such a piece of unmaintainable (and nonfree) crud. But you and you and you are all free to make your own variant of the Linux kernel, and keep maintaining it and throwing in improvements. Why don't you? Even big companies keep following Linus's version. Perhaps the puzzle results from someone who does a sufficiently hard job, sufficiently well, that nobody who is actually capable of competing WANTS to compete. They have better things to do. What puzzles me is how the mediocre X Window System has attracted no competitors. Yes, it's a hard job supporting all those hardware variants by all those lovely undocumented proprietary companies. But the X model sucks on SO many fronts, breaking typeahead/mouseahead, performance, display independence, having dozens of puzzling and incompatible window managers, etc. And have you looked at the 'object oriented' stuff layered on top of it? 743 root 17 0 50896 44M 6320 S 0.7 36.0 15292m X 874 gnu 11 0 14648 10M 3148 S 0.3 8.6 13:30 gnome-terminal That's a 50Mbyte process (44M resident) of window drivers, and a 14Mbyte (10M resident) terminal window that I'm typing into. I've seen the terminal window get as high as 60 Mbytes, with more than 50 resident. John
