RE: mil disinfo on cryptome
Oh, and I can't believe I almost forgot--I'm sure you'll be tickled pink to learn that ever having had anything to do with you can be the kiss of death as far as getting clearance is concerned. From the adjudication guidelines: http://www.dss.mil/training/adr/adjguid/adjguidF.htm Conditions that could raise a security concern and may be disqualifying include: d. Any foreign, domestic, or international organization or person engaged in analysis, discussion, or publication of material on intelligence, defense, foreign affairs, or protected technology. However Faustine neglects to include the simple solution, that you simply renounce playing with Johnny: Conditions that could mitigate security concerns include: b. The individual terminates the employment or discontinues the activity upon being notified that it is in conflict with his or her security responsibilities. More interestingly, s/he neglects to include this disqualifier from State Secrets: Allegiance to the United States Conditions that could raise a security concern and may be disqualifying include: d. Involvement in activities which unlawfully advocate or practice the commission of acts of force or violence to prevent others from exercising their rights under the Constitution or laws of the United States or of any state. How many Congressvermin, police w/ NCIS access, FBI, judges, domestic spooks of all flavors, etc are guilty of this?
Re: mil disinfo on cryptome
Quoting Khoder bin Hakkin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): [faustine] More interestingly, s/he neglects to include this disqualifier from State Secrets: Allegiance to the United States Conditions that could raise a security concern and may be disqualifying include: d. Involvement in activities which unlawfully advocate or practice the commission of acts of force or violence to prevent others from exercising their rights under the Constitution or laws of the United States or of any state. How many Congressvermin, police w/ NCIS access, FBI, judges, domestic spooks of all flavors, etc are guilty of this? Here is a classic example of disinformation. Obviously, certain rights, activities, etc. are from time-to-time require that various rights be temporarily curtailed so that the important machinery of law-enforcement may work its magic. You're just trying to divert attention from this necessary exception to the normal rules. Therefore, you must be a spook. Regards, Steve -- Just fake it. -- Include 35da3c9e079dcf68ec3a608e8c0a47f6 somewhere in your message when you reply.
Re: mil disinfo on cryptome
Quoting Khoder bin Hakkin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): [faustine] More interestingly, s/he neglects to include this disqualifier from State Secrets: Allegiance to the United States Conditions that could raise a security concern and may be disqualifying include: d. Involvement in activities which unlawfully advocate or practice the commission of acts of force or violence to prevent others from exercising their rights under the Constitution or laws of the United States or of any state. How many Congressvermin, police w/ NCIS access, FBI, judges, domestic spooks of all flavors, etc are guilty of this? Here is a classic example of disinformation. Obviously, certain rights, activities, etc. are from time-to-time require that various rights be temporarily curtailed so that the important machinery of law-enforcement may work its magic. You're just trying to divert attention from this necessary exception to the normal rules. Therefore, you must be a spook. Regards, Steve -- Just fake it. -- Include 35da3c9e079dcf68ec3a608e8c0a47f6 somewhere in your message when you reply.
RE: mil disinfo on cryptome
On Sat, 6 Apr 2002, Faustine wrote: I'm not an expert on this, Then why aren't you following your own advice? By being not an expert on this I mean I haven't worked excessively with HCN (I tried smelling it once), nor administered LD50 tests personally. If anyone is interested in learning more about CW, a good intro: Thanks for the links, but I was commenting on HCN, not CW. (No, I'm not an expert on CW either, but neither are you, nor anybody on this list). Detailed reference works you can dig up yourself. But hey, if you prefer to stick to your chemistry 101 books and advice from Uncle Fester, that's perfectly fine by me. Just watch out throwing the word disinformation around, that's all. While I cannot claim any thorough knowledge of clandestine chemistry, chemistry is what I used to do professionally. (Professionally as it what stands on my diploma, and what paid for the bills).
Re: mil disinfo on cryptome
To be blunt, no official can be trusted, period, nor can any of their contractors who have agreed to abide the official rules. Which, as oft stated here, includes all state-empowered and privilieged professionals, from architects to lawyers to doctors to priests to acupuncturists, and not least, journalists who may pretend to authorize themselves but behave in accord with the rules of their privileged publishers. I dont trust declan and the petrie dish,(peter Trei) for these reasons,I urge others not to either.Thanks jya.(1 architect we can rely on.) The Govt seems to be concerned about losing its monopoly on disinfo,they wheeled out the big guns to hose down 'conspiracy theories' about 9-11.They must really think we're getting out of control! I KNOW the SS thinks we are. Uncle Fester seems reasonably Kosher,not like Kurt Saxon,Tim May.Disinfo's shelf life keeps getting shorter,A.
RE: mil disinfo on cryptome (and sec clearance games)
At 09:22 PM 4/6/02 -0800, John Young wrote: Kahn's right, and admirably so, for once you get access to classified material you are doomed to be distrusted outside the secret world. Another reason: once you get a clearance, you can't speak freely. The latest _Tech Review_ interviews an MIT Prof Postol, who has been pointing out the lies behind Raytheon's Patriot missile and the anti-ballistic missile sham. Reportedly, some friendly DoD folks came to him and asked him to read a classified report that would put some of his technical worries at ease. Postol refused, knowing that this is a scheme used to silence folks --having been exposed to classified info, you have to watch what you say. If you figure it out from open data + general science, you can speak your mind. (BTW The basic deception is, if our gizmo can't discriminate this kind of decoy, well, don't use that kind of decoy in the tests..)
RE: mil disinfo on cryptome
On Sat, 6 Apr 2002, Faustine wrote: I'm not an expert on this, Then why aren't you following your own advice? By being not an expert on this I mean I haven't worked excessively with HCN (I tried smelling it once), nor administered LD50 tests personally. If anyone is interested in learning more about CW, a good intro: Thanks for the links, but I was commenting on HCN, not CW. (No, I'm not an expert on CW either, but neither are you, nor anybody on this list). Detailed reference works you can dig up yourself. But hey, if you prefer to stick to your chemistry 101 books and advice from Uncle Fester, that's perfectly fine by me. Just watch out throwing the word disinformation around, that's all. While I cannot claim any thorough knowledge of clandestine chemistry, chemistry is what I used to do professionally. (Professionally as it what stands on my diploma, and what paid for the bills).
Re: mil disinfo on cryptome
To be blunt, no official can be trusted, period, nor can any of their contractors who have agreed to abide the official rules. Which, as oft stated here, includes all state-empowered and privilieged professionals, from architects to lawyers to doctors to priests to acupuncturists, and not least, journalists who may pretend to authorize themselves but behave in accord with the rules of their privileged publishers. I dont trust declan and the petrie dish,(peter Trei) for these reasons,I urge others not to either.Thanks jya.(1 architect we can rely on.) The Govt seems to be concerned about losing its monopoly on disinfo,they wheeled out the big guns to hose down 'conspiracy theories' about 9-11.They must really think we're getting out of control! I KNOW the SS thinks we are. Uncle Fester seems reasonably Kosher,not like Kurt Saxon,Tim May.Disinfo's shelf life keeps getting shorter,A.
Re: CDR: RE: mil disinfo on cryptome (and sec clearance games)
Note that you also [explicitly] waive your search and siezure rights (at least this was the case the last time I looked at the forms for TS) - not a nice thing :-( On Sun, 7 Apr 2002, Optimizzin Al-gorithym wrote: Another reason: once you get a clearance, you can't speak freely. The latest _Tech Review_ interviews an MIT Prof Postol, who has been pointing out the lies behind Raytheon's Patriot missile and the anti-ballistic missile sham. Reportedly, some friendly DoD folks came to him and asked him to read a classified report that would put some of his technical worries at ease. Postol refused, knowing that this is a scheme used to silence folks --having been exposed to classified info, you have to watch what you say. If you figure it out from open data + general science, you can speak your mind. (BTW The basic deception is, if our gizmo can't discriminate this kind of decoy, well, don't use that kind of decoy in the tests..) -- Yours, J.A. Terranson [EMAIL PROTECTED] If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place...
RE: mil disinfo on cryptome
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Eugene wrote: I have not followed this thread closely, So why bother to chime in with your two cents before spending the five minutes it would take to learn what's been going on? but could clueless posters please shut up, for a change? Instead of talking at length about topics they know nothing about? Sure. As long as you're referring to people who scream disinformation when they can't reconcile a badly-worded paragraph with equations they looked up in a chemistry book, I agree. I'm not an expert on this, Then why aren't you following your own advice? If anyone is interested in learning more about CW, a good intro: Chemical Warfare Agents: an overview of chemicals defined as chemical weapons http://www.opcw.org/chemhaz/cwagents.htm. Biological agents: USAMRIID's MEDICAL MANAGEMENT OF BIOLOGICAL CASUALTIES HANDBOOK http://www.usamriid.army.mil/education/bluebook.html RAND pdfs: Overview of Chemical and Biological Warfare http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR1018.5/MR1018.5.chap2.html from: 2000 MR-1018/5 A Review of the Scientific Literature as It Pertains to Gulf War Illnesses. Vol. 5, Chemical and Biological Warfare Agents http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR1018.5/index.html 1998 DB-189/1 Air Force Operations in a Chemical and Biological Environment. http://www.rand.org/publications/DB/DB189.1/DB189.1.pdf/ 2001 CT-183 Combating Terrorism: Assessing the Threat of Biological Terrorism. http://www.rand.org/publications/CT/CT183/ 2001 CT-186 Anthrax Attacks, Biological Terrorism and Preventive Responses. http://www.rand.org/publications/CT/CT186/ Detailed reference works you can dig up yourself. But hey, if you prefer to stick to your chemistry 101 books and advice from Uncle Fester, that's perfectly fine by me. Just watch out throwing the word disinformation around, that's all. ~Faustine. *** He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. - --Thomas Paine -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPsdk version 1.7.1 (C) 1997-1999 Network Associates, Inc. and its affiliated companies. (Diffie-Helman/DSS-only version) iQA/AwUBPK96Ofg5Tuca7bfvEQKv9wCgkRJh/EtSTyECcvnhkoisTkpEtz4An1jg 5Eu6iUE9CLJuLAXgxTGDxMzY =Sot5 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
RE: mil disinfo on cryptome
Disinfo is a complicated topic, and it's not easy to know for sure when it is occurring; if it was easy to tell then it wouldn't be very effective disinfo. For all its admirable reputation RAND continues to be a forum for disinformation of high quality. This follows from its classified work and the cross- contamination of its unclassified output. But this is true of all persons and institutions which provide both classified and unclassified products. For a goodly part of the reputation of such actors is derived from their classified work and the imputation of value of unclassified stuff due to access to classified information. Contrarily, one can argue, that anybody who has access to classified material cannot be trusted for their unclassified work. David Kahn made such an argument when he refused to sign a confidentiality agreement for NSA in order to have access to classified archives. According to Kahn he was the first to refuse that faustian arrangement (pun intended, Faustine). Instead he sat at a desk outside the classified archives and worked only with material that did not require an NDA, doing so, he said, in order to help assure reader trust of his work. Kahn's right, and admirably so, for once you get access to classified material you are doomed to be distrusted outside the secret world. Too much lying has been done by those who have access for anybody with access to ever be trusted, which, no doubt, is the intention of those who believe in privileged information. You are either in or out, no mercy from either side, as Faust knew. To be blunt, no official can be trusted, period, nor can any of their contractors who have agreed to abide the official rules. Which, as oft stated here, includes all state-empowered and privilieged professionals, from architects to lawyers to doctors to priests to acupuncturists, and not least, journalists who may pretend to authorize themselves but behave in accord with the rules of their privileged publishers.
Re: mil disinfo on cryptome
Quoting John Young ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): To be blunt, no official can be trusted, period, nor can any of their contractors who have agreed to abide the official rules. Which, as oft stated here, includes all state-empowered and privilieged professionals, from architects to lawyers to doctors to priests to acupuncturists, and not least, journalists who may pretend to authorize themselves but behave in accord with the rules of their privileged publishers. I would have to disagree. Everyone has their price, and in so far as one can buy officials (and ensure they stay bought), such people can be trusted on a case-by-case basis. But when your really want to get something right, of course you should do it yourself. Regards, Steve -- Just fake it. -- Include 35da3c9e079dcf68ec3a608e8c0a47f6 somewhere in your message when you reply.
RE: mil disinfo on cryptome
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Eugene wrote: I have not followed this thread closely, So why bother to chime in with your two cents before spending the five minutes it would take to learn what's been going on? but could clueless posters please shut up, for a change? Instead of talking at length about topics they know nothing about? Sure. As long as you're referring to people who scream disinformation when they can't reconcile a badly-worded paragraph with equations they looked up in a chemistry book, I agree. I'm not an expert on this, Then why aren't you following your own advice? If anyone is interested in learning more about CW, a good intro: Chemical Warfare Agents: an overview of chemicals defined as chemical weapons http://www.opcw.org/chemhaz/cwagents.htm. Biological agents: USAMRIID's MEDICAL MANAGEMENT OF BIOLOGICAL CASUALTIES HANDBOOK http://www.usamriid.army.mil/education/bluebook.html RAND pdfs: Overview of Chemical and Biological Warfare http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR1018.5/MR1018.5.chap2.html from: 2000 MR-1018/5 A Review of the Scientific Literature as It Pertains to Gulf War Illnesses. Vol. 5, Chemical and Biological Warfare Agents http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR1018.5/index.html 1998 DB-189/1 Air Force Operations in a Chemical and Biological Environment. http://www.rand.org/publications/DB/DB189.1/DB189.1.pdf/ 2001 CT-183 Combating Terrorism: Assessing the Threat of Biological Terrorism. http://www.rand.org/publications/CT/CT183/ 2001 CT-186 Anthrax Attacks, Biological Terrorism and Preventive Responses. http://www.rand.org/publications/CT/CT186/ Detailed reference works you can dig up yourself. But hey, if you prefer to stick to your chemistry 101 books and advice from Uncle Fester, that's perfectly fine by me. Just watch out throwing the word disinformation around, that's all. ~~Faustine. *** He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. - --Thomas Paine -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPsdk version 1.7.1 (C) 1997-1999 Network Associates, Inc. and its affiliated companies. (Diffie-Helman/DSS-only version) iQA/AwUBPK96Ofg5Tuca7bfvEQKv9wCgkRJh/EtSTyECcvnhkoisTkpEtz4An1jg 5Eu6iUE9CLJuLAXgxTGDxMzY =Sot5 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: mil disinfo on cryptome
At 09:15 PM 4/4/02 -0500, Faustine wrote: And as long as you don't recommend that John call out the Snackycake Posse on the poor schmoe who sent him the manual thinking he was trying to help, I honestly couldn't care less. I don't think anyone has accused JY of intentional disinfo; he is largely a librarian --a very valuable one with enormous cajones-- not the author of the docs in question. Nor did anyone speak against the donor of said document. What we did find worth remarking on is the lethal sloppiness in a doc written by the largest manufacturer-of-, deployer-of-, and trainer-about- explosives in the world.
Re: mil disinfo on cryptome
At 10:45 AM 4/5/02 -0500, Faustine wrote: Well, given how hot he was last month about the idea of someone who seemed to be deliberately feeding him a line of disinformation, I just thought it was important not to throw an accusation like that around which reflects badly on the manual donor, especially when there's a fairly good explanation for the screw-up at hand. Again, its not the anonymous info leaker, but its mil author/proofreader, who is lame, intentionally or not. Of course, JY should be skeptical of all info streaming by, like the rest of us. What we did find worth remarking on is the lethal sloppiness in a doc written by the largest manufacturer-of-, deployer-of-, and trainer-about- explosives in the world. Absolutely, these are often erroneous and badly written. Yes, you have every right to expect to see disinformation in them. But in this case, there's nothing lethal about adding sodium cyanide to a urea nitrate bomb-- If you're properly removed all the trace acids from the nitrate... fact would likely boost the lethality by at least an order of magnitude An order of magnitude? What are you smoking? Or do you expect survivors to lick crystalline residues off the debris? BTW, The Israelis have faced organophosphate-laced explosives, but the pesticides generally don't do much (heat, dispersal..). You're better off using the van-space to hold Al powder, or tanks of hydrogen or acetylene, if your explosive has an oxygen surplus.
RE: mil disinfo on cryptome
Faustine wrote: I have a hunch the DoD would like nothing better than to see leakees go totally apeshit on leakers as disinformation spreaders. Do their dirty work, save them the trouble: sounds perfectly in line with Rumsfeld's doctrinal emphasis on deterrence by denial to me. Google this phrase with information warfare and you can find some pretty interesting papers online. It would seem to me that deception would better rest on trusted, precision channels. I doubt JYA would be among my selections. (But, who am I to say, and I don't know how far we have fallen.) Windfalls might even not believed. To plant the story on the enemy might even take a good deal more artifice. And, perhaps what the enemy believes doesn't really make a damn, unless he does something about it. Such uncontrolled channels and rumor-mills might even work contrary to deception principles, assuming the need for prediction and consistency, both in interpretation and any decision-making RESULT that is to be obtained. Finally, I doubt the DOD is confused with regard to the American people and the enemy. Circumstances suggest that we have allowed our CI capabilities to wither, which might preclude any benefit from such an operation, and certainly not one that would outweigh the risks. Furthermore, when it comes to certain forms of deception, Americans don't seem deception-inclined. (Some of the covert action exposes we've had in the last decade had baby blanket cover planning.) In truth, the British still hold the title belt, and have done so for over 50 years. Currently, the sign on the American wall of deception operations is a fairly clear one: _WE SUCK_. Faustine, I do hope you do well in policy analysis, and adhere to your strong political viewpoints and goal-states. If you do, a deception planner will never hurt you. ~Aimee 7(2)-- ...as it's position, owing to being clandestine, is very dangerous, they have had little success, as only about twelve revolutionary members are affiliated, and their activities are very limited and rather ridiculous.' ...most of their time making lists of names.who must be eliminated when their aspirations were achieved. -- Notes from GARBO.
RE: mil disinfo on cryptome
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Major Variola wrote: Absolutely, these are often erroneous and badly written. Yes, you have every right to expect to see disinformation in them. But in this case, there's nothing lethal about adding sodium cyanide to a urea nitrate bomb-- If you're properly removed all the trace acids from the nitrate... fact would likely boost the lethality by at least an order of magnitude An order of magnitude? (...) Yeah, as part of the total payload (e. g. combined with sulfuric acid you get hydrogen cyanide gas.) The heat and dispersal issues in this kind of chemical submunition have already been fully addressed in more serious CW literature, but I'm really not the person to ask. I'm completely and perfectly happy to leave the Ask Uncle Fester gig entirely to you. ~Faustine. *** He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. - --Thomas Paine -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPsdk version 1.7.1 (C) 1997-1999 Network Associates, Inc. and its affiliated companies. (Diffie-Helman/DSS-only version) iQA/AwUBPK4J1fg5Tuca7bfvEQIZ9gCgkKYBp4oTefPN2EAAQ/cjpJzzSswAn2bC rP+lvuOejUTBc4xrVYDA4OrJ =r0oh -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: mil disinfo on cryptome
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Richard Fiero wrote: Question for Faustine: Is what is, right? Or is it man-made and can be changed by men? Faustine may want to rethink this. Social Darwinism does not square with the Thomas Paine quote. There's a reason I contrasted the American conception of ideal justice with real justice: the latter has absolutely nothing to do with right or wrong, it just is. Read some Nietzsche. As for the rest, I'm a libertarian, not an anarchist: see also http://www.lp.org. ~~Faustine. *** He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. - --Thomas Paine -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPsdk version 1.7.1 (C) 1997-1999 Network Associates, Inc. and its affiliated companies. (Diffie-Helman/DSS-only version) iQA/AwUBPK3Jmfg5Tuca7bfvEQL8XACfQrEmti+LST9q0vOIOnOTjRA1qVAAn3Ox LkRCUcXnizNe4D0w9vEX1xUS =MASh -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: mil disinfo on cryptome
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 At 09:15 PM 4/4/02 -0500, Faustine wrote: And as long as you don't recommend that John call out the Snackycake Posse on the poor schmoe who sent him the manual thinking he was trying to help, I honestly couldn't care less. I don't think anyone has accused JY of intentional disinfo; he is largely a librarian--a very valuable one with enormous cajones-- not the author of the docs in question. Right, sure. Nor did anyone speak against the donor of said document. Well, given how hot he was last month about the idea of someone who seemed to be deliberately feeding him a line of disinformation, I just thought it was important not to throw an accusation like that around which reflects badly on the manual donor, especially when there's a fairly good explanation for the screw-up at hand. I have a hunch the DoD would like nothing better than to see leakees go totally apeshit on leakers as disinformation spreaders. Do their dirty work, save them the trouble: sounds perfectly in line with Rumsfeld's doctrinal emphasis on deterrence by denial to me. Google this phrase with information warfare and you can find some pretty interesting papers online. What we did find worth remarking on is the lethal sloppiness in a doc written by the largest manufacturer-of-, deployer-of-, and trainer-about- explosives in the world. Absolutely, these are often erroneous and badly written. Yes, you have every right to expect to see disinformation in them. But in this case, there's nothing lethal about adding sodium cyanide to a urea nitrate bomb-- and in fact would likely boost the lethality by at least an order of magnitude, maybe more. It's not as if this involved giving a precise formula or anything, just some hack content to put out a sloppy generality. Unfortunately, nothing new. ~~Faustine. *** He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. - --Thomas Paine -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPsdk version 1.7.1 (C) 1997-1999 Network Associates, Inc. and its affiliated companies. (Diffie-Helman/DSS-only version) iQA/AwUBPK3Gnvg5Tuca7bfvEQJTXACgs1xBE3CDgN/QgrFe/DKTg6xhyqMAn2di P5Hyd/q5Am7+cOCeGkEjvzL5 =5E7D -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: mil disinfo on cryptome
At 11:20 PM 4/3/02 -0800, Morlock Elloi wrote: Bomb components, silly. Everything was in the bomb, capiche? Common usage, as found on the web: The point of the exercise was to underline the disinformation content. If you argue this, then you should provide an example of a bomb which has sulphuric acid and sodium cyanide as components. If by components you mean something used in the manufacturing process, than most things around you (especially computers) have sulphuric acid as a component. (Routers News Service) Faustine, the false name for an agent of the Cypherpunks Movement, which has been under surveillance by the government for some time, was caught today near Federal buildings driving a mobile platform containing: volitile hydrocarbons equivalent to several pounds of TNT; sulphuric acid, used to make explosives; lead, a toxic heavy metal; and various electrical timing elements. The agent also had a handheld two-way radiophone and a computer containing encryption software.
Re: mil disinfo on cryptome
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Morlock: I never mentioned that there are no chemical devices using H2SO4 and NaCN (and it's hardly a bomb, H2SO4 + 2 NaCN = Na2SO4 + 2 HCN is not an explosive reaction, although it does generate some heat.) I said that these two are NOT components of urea nitrate. What is called for here is an example of H2SO4 and NaCN used in an explosive device (like in WTC) designed to destroy by shock wave, not by tying hemoglobin from red blood cells. Either or, is it? Are you totally unfamiliar with the concept of coupling high explosives with chemical agents? Good god, no wonder you're so confused. Nobody ever claimed terrorists added sodium cyanide to their urea nitrate bombs for a bigger bang: if you see this as disinformation you're totally missing the point. In this sense, encouraging use of H2SO4 and NaCN for building explosive devices is pure disinformation If you knew a little more about bombmaking, this wouldn't be any great mystery. Bah, as if whoever wrote the manual wanted to encourage anyone. I'm sure they'd be delighted to hear you give your expert opinion to everyone here that adding sodium cyanide to urea nitrate bombs is a bad idea, though. And as long as you don't recommend that John call out the Snackycake Posse on the poor schmoe who sent him the manual thinking he was trying to help, I honestly couldn't care less. ~Faustine. *** He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. - --Thomas Paine -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPsdk version 1.7.1 (C) 1997-1999 Network Associates, Inc. and its affiliated companies. (Diffie-Helman/DSS-only version) iQA/AwUBPK0Iuvg5Tuca7bfvEQJYuACfdlNhMdBCDFVuyWLoQVnRQww8/dkAoNy7 AIaygjoE/s224JFCQjFZ8Gco =/1za -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: mil disinfo on cryptome
Either or, is it? Are you totally unfamiliar with the concept of coupling high explosives with chemical agents? Good god, no wonder you're so confused. 1. Ad hominem is a sign of weakness. 2.Chemical agent can mean anything. coupling can mean anything. 3. Your statements are empty and with shifting focus. Engaging any further on this topic is a waste of time. I should have listened. .. Nobody ever claimed terrorists added sodium cyanide to their urea nitrate bombs for a bigger bang: if you see this as disinformation you're totally missing the point. Negating non-events do not make events disappear. While wasting time, for the last time ... few messages back, there was a clear claim that H2SO4 and NaCN are components of urea nitrate: Another fertilizer-based explosive used by terrorists is Urea Nitrate (its components are urea, sulfuric acid, nitric acid, and sodium cyanide) = end (of original message) Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows: Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Re: mil disinfo on cryptome
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 One more time: Either or, is it? Are you totally unfamiliar with the concept of coupling high explosives with chemical agents? Good god, no wonder you're so confused. 1. Ad hominem is a sign of weakness. But you genuinely seem confused. Just because some hack gets ahead of himself and mistakenly writes Urea Nitrate for urea nitrate bomb (which can contain any number of things, including sodium cyanide) you can't see any way around it being deliberate, willful disinformation. Ridiculous. Why would the government as you say, encourage terrorists to use something which would make them have a weapon with a far greater lethality than if they left it out? Doesn't follow. It's only misleading to someone stuck at the level of reading equations out of a chemistry book. 2.Chemical agent can mean anything. coupling can mean anything. No, actually I'm using the terms in a very specific sense: if you knew the first thing about bomb-making you'd share the larger context and wouldn't need to sit around mystified over word usage and hung up on terminology. Nobody ever claimed terrorists added sodium cyanide to their urea nitrate bombs for a bigger bang: if you see this as disinformation you're totally missing the point. Negating non-events do not make events disappear. Terrorists add sodium cyanide to urea nitrate bombs to achieve chemical effects alongside blast effects. Do some reading. 3. Your statements are empty and with shifting focus. Engaging any further on this topic is a waste of time. Like I don't have anything better to do than baby-step you through a point everyone else in the whole group grasped a long time ago. I should have listened. Yes. You should also do some more reading. While wasting time, for the last time ... few messages back, there was a clear claim that H2SO4 and NaCN are components of urea nitrate: Another fertilizer-based explosive used by terrorists is Urea Nitrate (its components are urea, sulfuric acid, nitric acid, and sodium cyanide) One more time: given that terrorists add sodium cyanide to urea nitrate bombs to achieve chemical effects as well as blast effects, I think it more likely this was a simple error made in haste (Urea Nitrate used generically (erroneously) in place of the more precise urea nitrate bomb than deliberate disinformation. For you to split hairs and demand an example of sodium cyanide used as anything other than a chemical weapon shows you are completely missing the point. Do some reading. ~Faustine. *** He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. - --Thomas Paine -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPsdk version 1.7.1 (C) 1997-1999 Network Associates, Inc. and its affiliated companies. (Diffie-Helman/DSS-only version) iQA/AwUBPK0vVfg5Tuca7bfvEQKUiQCdE7TnenUd+jB2duZ2Xf9uDykR2a8An0VC rgw227Eko1QiNCxYJSNrWs3L =QIcM -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: mil disinfo on cryptome
I think someone got careless: terrorists have used sodium cyanide in their urea nitrate bombs--the first WTC bombing, as a matter of fact. Look it up. The compound referred to as an explosive used by terrorists was primarily urea nitrate based, and indeed contained all the components listed. Sloppy writing, quel surprise! Is chemistry a controlled item now ? Will this be considered a deemed transfer ? H2SO4 and NaCN are components of CO(NH2)2HNO3 less than Frank Zappa's piss and Elvis' shit are part of Faustine (and she does contain several billion atoms from those two components). = end (of original message) Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows: Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Re: mil disinfo on cryptome
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Faustine wrote: Morlock wrote: I think someone got careless: terrorists have used sodium cyanide in their urea nitrate bombs--the first WTC bombing, as a matter of fact. Look it up. The compound referred to as an explosive used by terrorists was primarily urea nitrate based, and indeed contained all the components listed. Sloppy writing, quel surprise! Is chemistry a controlled item now ? Will this be considered a deemed transfer ? Not at all, where did that come from. My archived posts make it perfectly clear what I think about research and the first amendment. My point was that clumsy wording on the part of some manual-writing hack doesn't automatically equal disinformation. I still think if you haven't bothered to learn enough to know when you're about to blow yourself to bits, irradiate yourself, infect yourself, etc. you have no right to expect sympathy when your stupidity, laziness, and ignorance get the better of you. Read and believe whatever you want, but don't be shocked, shocked!! at the thought that some tricky bastard out there might have decided he wants to make it a little harder for you. Every man for himself, reader beware. Here's a thought: why not get a real education and quit bitching over how nobody's handing you weapons of mass destruction on a silver platter? How hard can it be. H2SO4 and NaCN are components of CO(NH2)2HNO3 less than Frank Zappa's piss and Elvis' shit are part of Faustine (and she does contain several billion atoms from those two components). Bomb components, silly. Everything was in the bomb, capiche? Common usage, as found on the web: Prosecutors also claim that in the months leading up to the bombing, Nichols stole bomb components such as ammonium nitrate fertilizer and a detonator cord using an alias name. ~Faustine. *** He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. - --Thomas Paine -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPsdk version 1.7.1 (C) 1997-1999 Network Associates, Inc. and its affiliated companies. (Diffie-Helman/DSS-only version) iQA/AwUBPKvm0fg5Tuca7bfvEQKkHQCgtTlp8y0OsA+V0xAtQnYZV++iVpkAmQHE RZ9YhI81LxWc3POTvsedMhjM =gRlR -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: mil disinfo on cryptome
This is anarchists-cookbook-style disinfo. While mighty US military think tanks prepare for Homeland defense against total cretins, I wonder if it's time for citizenry to hire professionals for the real defense. Not that I expect that talibanladens will be contracted any time soon again (the effects still hold full-strength), but there is always a chance that some fringe group will decide to strike, and those foreheadless monkeys in camouflage uniforms on airports present danger only to themselves.
Re: mil disinfo on cryptome
H2SO4 and NaCN are components of CO(NH2)2HNO3 less than Frank Zappa's piss and Elvis' shit are part of Faustine (and she does contain several billion atoms from those two components). Bomb components, silly. Everything was in the bomb, capiche? Common usage, as found on the web: The point of the exercise was to underline the disinformation content. If you argue this, then you should provide an example of a bomb which has sulphuric acid and sodium cyanide as components. If by components you mean something used in the manufacturing process, than most things around you (especially computers) have sulphuric acid as a component. = end (of original message) Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows: Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/
