Re: [darktable-dev] OBS packages for xUbuntu
Just my 0.02$... When I install Ubuntu on a new disk, I always partition with a separate /home. This way, I when I do a fresh install (typically 15-20 min), I set DO NOT format and use as /home that partition. When I reboot, I have the new LTS, all my files and .config in my /home untouched, I only have to reinstall my apps (Gimp, Grsync, Darktable, Inkscape and a few others). On 06/01/23 05:27, Bob Tregilus wrote: On 1/5/23, Wiktor Nowak wrote: Doing a fresh install of Ubuntu is self-sabotage. Please just try. Double check if Your backups are intact and let the update tool do the work for You. That's probably at least hours of configuration and customization effort saved. Any Ubuntu will read on display calibration profiles. If Your software will not be available some day You still can have a USB dongle with older Ubuntu specifically to perform the calibration process. So that issue doesn't need to hold You back from fresh OS. --- Thanks, Wiktor! It only takes me ~90 minutes to do a fresh install. I kind of enjoy the process. It forces me to clean up files and back stuff up. Kind of like a spring house cleaning! Good idea on the USB dongle, but it has been noted that someone picked up the the displaycal project and updated it to py3. I just checked synaptic and there it is. I've been using the .deb package from the original author all this. But it is a good trick to keep in mind, thanks! Regards, Bob --- ___ darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org ___ darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-dev] OBS packages for xUbuntu
On 1/5/23, Wiktor Nowak wrote: > Doing a fresh install of Ubuntu is self-sabotage. Please just try. > Double check if Your backups are intact and let the update tool do the > work for You. That's probably at least hours of configuration and > customization effort saved. > > Any Ubuntu will read on display calibration profiles. If Your software > will not be available some day You still can have a USB dongle with > older Ubuntu specifically to perform the calibration process. So that > issue doesn't need to hold You back from fresh OS. > --- Thanks, Wiktor! It only takes me ~90 minutes to do a fresh install. I kind of enjoy the process. It forces me to clean up files and back stuff up. Kind of like a spring house cleaning! Good idea on the USB dongle, but it has been noted that someone picked up the the displaycal project and updated it to py3. I just checked synaptic and there it is. I've been using the .deb package from the original author all this. But it is a good trick to keep in mind, thanks! Regards, Bob --- ___ darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-dev] OBS packages for xUbuntu
On 1/5/23, Bernhard wrote: > In latest Debian stable (bullseye) I have DisplayCal https://displaycal.net/ > installed from the Debian backport repo. > https://packages.debian.org/bullseye-backports/displaycal > It uses Python 3.9.2 and simply works as expected. This seems to be the > latest dev repo: https://github.com/eoyilmaz/displaycal-py3 > And on Ubuntu there also seems to be a package: > https://packages.ubuntu.com/kinetic/displaycal > > Not what I would consider "dead" at this moment. > -- > > regards > Bernhard --- Thanks, Bernhard! Bob --- ___ darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-dev] OBS packages for xUbuntu
Bob Tregilus schrieb am 05.01.23 um 02:38: My biggest worry, however, is dispcalGUI being a dead project. I hope it still works with xUbuntu 22.04.1? Guess I will find out. I need a calibrated monitor. It will be a lot of work to figure out how to calibrate from the command line with Argyll CMS. In latest Debian stable (bullseye) I have DisplayCal https://displaycal.net/ installed from the Debian backport repo. https://packages.debian.org/bullseye-backports/displaycal It uses Python 3.9.2 and simply works as expected. This seems to be the latest dev repo: https://github.com/eoyilmaz/displaycal-py3 And on Ubuntu there also seems to be a package: https://packages.ubuntu.com/kinetic/displaycal Not what I would consider "dead" at this moment. -- regards Bernhard https://www.bilddateien.de ___ darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-dev] OBS packages for xUbuntu
Doing a fresh install of Ubuntu is self-sabotage. Please just try.
Double check if Your backups are intact and let the update tool do the
work for You. That's probably at least hours of configuration and
customization effort saved.
Any Ubuntu will read on display calibration profiles. If Your software
will not be available some day You still can have a USB dongle with
older Ubuntu specifically to perform the calibration process. So that
issue doesn't need to hold You back from fresh OS.
W dniu 5.01.2023 o 02:38, Bob Tregilus pisze:
> Hi -
>
> My apologies for causing a kerfuffle.
>
> I am not a dev, just a user, albeit from SuSE 6.0.
>
> I did not understand why there were packages for newer unsupported
> xUbuntu versions and not for an older supported version. But now I
> know: dependencies.
>
> I always do fresh installs. I realize there are upgrade paths these
> days, but I'm old school, I guess.
>
> Therefore, with Mint, I wait for the version x.3 LTS before doing a
> fresh install.
>
> I'll just go ahead and install 21.1.
>
> My biggest worry, however, is dispcalGUI being a dead project. I hope
> it still works with xUbuntu 22.04.1? Guess I will find out. I need a
> calibrated monitor. It will be a lot of work to figure out how to
> calibrate from the command line with Argyll CMS.
>
> Thanks for enlightening an old dopey user.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> On 1/4/23, Mica Semrick wrote:
>> Can you not just be polite though? Do we want the default reply here
to be
>> "gruff with loosely associated facts?"
>>
>> Essentially the question of "what happened to xxx package" was met
with a
>> multi paragraph rant about LTS and Ubuntu and whatever. It didn't
provide
>> the answer but instead veered off on it's own direction.
>>
>> Not a great way to start the new year, if I'm honest.
>>
>> -m
>>
>> On January 4, 2023 9:57:39 AM PST, "ja...@activimetrics.com"
>> wrote:
>>> For what its worth, I read Matthias Andree's responses as perfectly
>>> reasonable. Yes the words were not exceedingly polite, but the
>>> gruffness was backed with explanation. I certainly did not read any
>>> ad hominem attacks.
>>>
>>> I was always of the opinion that if you stick with an LTS version of a
>>> distro, you are stuck with *exactly* what the distro decides is worthy
>>> of LTS support.
>>>
>>> Especially in this new world of flatpaks.
>>>
>>> For the record, I run slackware since forever, so building code from
>>> source as a package is something I have to do now and then. I would
>>> never dream of asking the darktable devs to maintain a slackware
>>> SlackBuild, let alone an installable package.
>>>
>>> And when Mr. Volkerding and the inner slackware cabal decide that it
>>> is time to release a new version, one upgrades shortly thereafter.
>>>
>>> Regards, and back to lurking,
>>>
>>> James
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 04, 2023 at 07:43:10AM -0800, Mica Semrick wrote:
You're making a lot of assumptions here. Seems like you have some
deeper
issue than someone asking a simple question about support. Maybe a
break
from the computer is in order.
Happy new year
-m
On January 4, 2023 7:33:59 AM PST, Matthias Andree
wrote:
> Am 04.01.23 um 15:58 schrieb Mica Semrick:
>> This answer is a bit rude and doesn't answer the original query.
>
> It may be rude if you consider "who cares" rude, and prevents people
>from wasting their time while pointing out the actual issue, which is
> "old distro" which is too old to build darktable 4.2.
>
>> There is an unmet dependency in Ubuntu 20.04 and the latest release
>> can no longer be built. See
>>
https://discuss.pixls.us/t/what-happened-with-the-obs-builds/33588/2?u=darix
for
>> more information.
>
> Thanks for mass-confirming what I was writing.
>
> And scared users in that thread posted in November 2022, 7 months
after
> release, that they still considered Ubuntu "new", when 22.04.1
was out
> and from-LTS-to-next-LTS upgrades had been enabled. Exactly the
kind of
> support open-source maintainers want to be distracted with. I haven't
> even looked whether the OBS people are the same as the darktable
> people,
> but you'd think it best to move things forward rather than tying them
> up
> in the past.
>
> The thing is you can't have the cake and eat it, so everyone please
> stop
> pretending they could.
>
> Ubuntu 20.04 (code-named focal fossa) shipped darktable 3.0, and
> darktable being in the "universe" community-unmaintained package
set...
> being stuck with older darktable is a choice that people made by NOT
> upgrading their Ubuntu LTS in the past three months.
>
https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?suite=focal=names=darktable
>
> And it's also either you choose a Ubuntu LTS distro and live with
> whatever unmaintained ("universe") package came with it, and be stuck
> with it, or you
Re: [darktable-dev] OBS packages for xUbuntu
Jack Bowling schrieb am 05.01.23 um 06:25: Not there is current dev work ongoing to enable darktable to be offered as an Appimage which will allow another option for older OS versions. great news as this is standalone and uses standard conventions e. g. to save settings data of the app afaik. -- regards Bernhard https://www.bilddateien.de ___ darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-dev] OBS packages for xUbuntu
On 2023-01-04 18:29, Mica Semrick wrote: On 1/4/23 18:10, Matthias Andree wrote: You are considering my earlier messages rude and now you are insinuating I had a "deeper issue"? Your 12 paragraph response that didn't answer the question does indeed point to you having a bad day, at the very least. Taking that out on other people isn't nice. Have I just broke your delusions of Ubuntu LTS or what's up? No and I don't use ubuntu anyway. The solution is "you want to run up-to-date software, you get to upgrade your distro first". Except that is not at all true. Besides OBS, which does build for quite a few "out of date" distros, there are also flatpaks and snaps, which will run a whole bunch of places where an otherwise up-to-date darktable package isn't available. Not there is current dev work ongoing to enable darktable to be offered as an Appimage which will allow another option for older OS versions. Jack ___ darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-dev] OBS packages for xUbuntu
On 1/4/23 18:10, Matthias Andree wrote: You are considering my earlier messages rude and now you are insinuating I had a "deeper issue"? Your 12 paragraph response that didn't answer the question does indeed point to you having a bad day, at the very least. Taking that out on other people isn't nice. Have I just broke your delusions of Ubuntu LTS or what's up? No and I don't use ubuntu anyway. The solution is "you want to run up-to-date software, you get to upgrade your distro first". Except that is not at all true. Besides OBS, which does build for quite a few "out of date" distros, there are also flatpaks and snaps, which will run a whole bunch of places where an otherwise up-to-date darktable package isn't available. ___ darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-dev] OBS packages for xUbuntu
Hi Bob,
You can get displaycal in a flatpak or there is a python3 port of it
that you can install using pip.
-m
On 1/4/23 17:38, Bob Tregilus wrote:
Hi -
My apologies for causing a kerfuffle.
I am not a dev, just a user, albeit from SuSE 6.0.
I did not understand why there were packages for newer unsupported
xUbuntu versions and not for an older supported version. But now I
know: dependencies.
I always do fresh installs. I realize there are upgrade paths these
days, but I'm old school, I guess.
Therefore, with Mint, I wait for the version x.3 LTS before doing a
fresh install.
I'll just go ahead and install 21.1.
My biggest worry, however, is dispcalGUI being a dead project. I hope
it still works with xUbuntu 22.04.1? Guess I will find out. I need a
calibrated monitor. It will be a lot of work to figure out how to
calibrate from the command line with Argyll CMS.
Thanks for enlightening an old dopey user.
Bob
On 1/4/23, Mica Semrick wrote:
Can you not just be polite though? Do we want the default reply here to be
"gruff with loosely associated facts?"
Essentially the question of "what happened to xxx package" was met with a
multi paragraph rant about LTS and Ubuntu and whatever. It didn't provide
the answer but instead veered off on it's own direction.
Not a great way to start the new year, if I'm honest.
-m
On January 4, 2023 9:57:39 AM PST, "ja...@activimetrics.com"
wrote:
For what its worth, I read Matthias Andree's responses as perfectly
reasonable. Yes the words were not exceedingly polite, but the
gruffness was backed with explanation. I certainly did not read any
ad hominem attacks.
I was always of the opinion that if you stick with an LTS version of a
distro, you are stuck with *exactly* what the distro decides is worthy
of LTS support.
Especially in this new world of flatpaks.
For the record, I run slackware since forever, so building code from
source as a package is something I have to do now and then. I would
never dream of asking the darktable devs to maintain a slackware
SlackBuild, let alone an installable package.
And when Mr. Volkerding and the inner slackware cabal decide that it
is time to release a new version, one upgrades shortly thereafter.
Regards, and back to lurking,
James
On Wed, Jan 04, 2023 at 07:43:10AM -0800, Mica Semrick wrote:
You're making a lot of assumptions here. Seems like you have some deeper
issue than someone asking a simple question about support. Maybe a break
from the computer is in order.
Happy new year
-m
On January 4, 2023 7:33:59 AM PST, Matthias Andree
wrote:
Am 04.01.23 um 15:58 schrieb Mica Semrick:
This answer is a bit rude and doesn't answer the original query.
It may be rude if you consider "who cares" rude, and prevents people
>from wasting their time while pointing out the actual issue, which is
"old distro" which is too old to build darktable 4.2.
There is an unmet dependency in Ubuntu 20.04 and the latest release
can no longer be built. See
https://discuss.pixls.us/t/what-happened-with-the-obs-builds/33588/2?u=darix for
more information.
Thanks for mass-confirming what I was writing.
And scared users in that thread posted in November 2022, 7 months after
release, that they still considered Ubuntu "new", when 22.04.1 was out
and from-LTS-to-next-LTS upgrades had been enabled. Exactly the kind of
support open-source maintainers want to be distracted with. I haven't
even looked whether the OBS people are the same as the darktable
people,
but you'd think it best to move things forward rather than tying them
up
in the past.
The thing is you can't have the cake and eat it, so everyone please
stop
pretending they could.
Ubuntu 20.04 (code-named focal fossa) shipped darktable 3.0, and
darktable being in the "universe" community-unmaintained package set...
being stuck with older darktable is a choice that people made by NOT
upgrading their Ubuntu LTS in the past three months.
https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?suite=focal=names=darktable
And it's also either you choose a Ubuntu LTS distro and live with
whatever unmaintained ("universe") package came with it, and be stuck
with it, or you pick something that installs an app and all its distro
deps redundantly in a distro (snap or flatpack, if available) with all
the drawbacks of its isolation and bulk, or you need to move to a
distro
that is up to speed if your interest is "new software" and integrates
such quickly. Rolling or frequent releases and distros exist, but
that's
not Ubuntu LTS, and possibly no Debian-based distro at all.
Having said that, Fedora 37 or FreeBSD 13.1 built darktable 4.2 nicely
for me.
I wonder why all the world can expect everyone to maintain every new
package for their museum piece of desktop distro install and NOT be
considered rude. Expecting someone to maintain software or packages
thereof for older distros, on a voluntary basis, free of charge, is
what
I consider egoistic and rude. It is an enormous waste of resources.
Re: [darktable-dev] OBS packages for xUbuntu
Am 04.01.23 um 16:43 schrieb Mica Semrick: You're making a lot of assumptions here. Seems like you have some deeper issue than someone asking a simple question about support. Maybe a break from the computer is in order. You are considering my earlier messages rude and now you are insinuating I had a "deeper issue"? Have I just broke your delusions of Ubuntu LTS or what's up? Why do you feel and give in to an urge to resort to ad-hominem attacks? The solution is "you want to run up-to-date software, you get to upgrade your distro first". In many more words that were meant to convey "Ubuntu LTS is not what many Desktop mistake it for". ___ darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-dev] OBS packages for xUbuntu
Hi -
My apologies for causing a kerfuffle.
I am not a dev, just a user, albeit from SuSE 6.0.
I did not understand why there were packages for newer unsupported
xUbuntu versions and not for an older supported version. But now I
know: dependencies.
I always do fresh installs. I realize there are upgrade paths these
days, but I'm old school, I guess.
Therefore, with Mint, I wait for the version x.3 LTS before doing a
fresh install.
I'll just go ahead and install 21.1.
My biggest worry, however, is dispcalGUI being a dead project. I hope
it still works with xUbuntu 22.04.1? Guess I will find out. I need a
calibrated monitor. It will be a lot of work to figure out how to
calibrate from the command line with Argyll CMS.
Thanks for enlightening an old dopey user.
Bob
On 1/4/23, Mica Semrick wrote:
> Can you not just be polite though? Do we want the default reply here to be
> "gruff with loosely associated facts?"
>
> Essentially the question of "what happened to xxx package" was met with a
> multi paragraph rant about LTS and Ubuntu and whatever. It didn't provide
> the answer but instead veered off on it's own direction.
>
> Not a great way to start the new year, if I'm honest.
>
> -m
>
> On January 4, 2023 9:57:39 AM PST, "ja...@activimetrics.com"
> wrote:
>>For what its worth, I read Matthias Andree's responses as perfectly
>>reasonable. Yes the words were not exceedingly polite, but the
>>gruffness was backed with explanation. I certainly did not read any
>>ad hominem attacks.
>>
>>I was always of the opinion that if you stick with an LTS version of a
>>distro, you are stuck with *exactly* what the distro decides is worthy
>>of LTS support.
>>
>>Especially in this new world of flatpaks.
>>
>>For the record, I run slackware since forever, so building code from
>>source as a package is something I have to do now and then. I would
>>never dream of asking the darktable devs to maintain a slackware
>>SlackBuild, let alone an installable package.
>>
>>And when Mr. Volkerding and the inner slackware cabal decide that it
>>is time to release a new version, one upgrades shortly thereafter.
>>
>>Regards, and back to lurking,
>>
>>James
>>
>>On Wed, Jan 04, 2023 at 07:43:10AM -0800, Mica Semrick wrote:
>>> You're making a lot of assumptions here. Seems like you have some deeper
>>> issue than someone asking a simple question about support. Maybe a break
>>> from the computer is in order.
>>>
>>> Happy new year
>>> -m
>>>
>>> On January 4, 2023 7:33:59 AM PST, Matthias Andree
>>> wrote:
>>> >Am 04.01.23 um 15:58 schrieb Mica Semrick:
>>> >> This answer is a bit rude and doesn't answer the original query.
>>> >
>>> >It may be rude if you consider "who cares" rude, and prevents people
>>> >from wasting their time while pointing out the actual issue, which is
>>> >"old distro" which is too old to build darktable 4.2.
>>> >
>>> >> There is an unmet dependency in Ubuntu 20.04 and the latest release
>>> >> can no longer be built. See
>>> >> https://discuss.pixls.us/t/what-happened-with-the-obs-builds/33588/2?u=darix
>>> >> for
>>> >> more information.
>>> >
>>> >Thanks for mass-confirming what I was writing.
>>> >
>>> >And scared users in that thread posted in November 2022, 7 months after
>>> >release, that they still considered Ubuntu "new", when 22.04.1 was out
>>> >and from-LTS-to-next-LTS upgrades had been enabled. Exactly the kind of
>>> >support open-source maintainers want to be distracted with. I haven't
>>> >even looked whether the OBS people are the same as the darktable
>>> > people,
>>> >but you'd think it best to move things forward rather than tying them
>>> > up
>>> >in the past.
>>> >
>>> >The thing is you can't have the cake and eat it, so everyone please
>>> > stop
>>> >pretending they could.
>>> >
>>> >Ubuntu 20.04 (code-named focal fossa) shipped darktable 3.0, and
>>> >darktable being in the "universe" community-unmaintained package set...
>>> >being stuck with older darktable is a choice that people made by NOT
>>> >upgrading their Ubuntu LTS in the past three months.
>>> >https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?suite=focal=names=darktable
>>> >
>>> >And it's also either you choose a Ubuntu LTS distro and live with
>>> >whatever unmaintained ("universe") package came with it, and be stuck
>>> >with it, or you pick something that installs an app and all its distro
>>> >deps redundantly in a distro (snap or flatpack, if available) with all
>>> >the drawbacks of its isolation and bulk, or you need to move to a
>>> > distro
>>> >that is up to speed if your interest is "new software" and integrates
>>> >such quickly. Rolling or frequent releases and distros exist, but
>>> > that's
>>> >not Ubuntu LTS, and possibly no Debian-based distro at all.
>>> >
>>> >Having said that, Fedora 37 or FreeBSD 13.1 built darktable 4.2 nicely
>>> >for me.
>>> >
>>> >I wonder why all the world can expect everyone to maintain every new
>>> >package for their museum piece of desktop distro install and NOT be
>>>
Re: [darktable-dev] OBS packages for xUbuntu
Never mind. I forgot that I had installed cmake 3.22 in /usr/local. I
just queried the installed version and assumed that was what I was using.
Sorry for the noise.
On Wed, Jan 4, 2023 at 1:30 PM William Ferguson
wrote:
> I just built current master on Ubuntu 20.04 with cmake 3.16.1, without any
> problems.
>
> On Wed, Jan 4, 2023 at 1:21 PM Mica Semrick
> wrote:
>
>> Can you not just be polite though? Do we want the default reply here to
>> be "gruff with loosely associated facts?"
>>
>> Essentially the question of "what happened to xxx package" was met with a
>> multi paragraph rant about LTS and Ubuntu and whatever. It didn't provide
>> the answer but instead veered off on it's own direction.
>>
>> Not a great way to start the new year, if I'm honest.
>>
>> -m
>>
>> On January 4, 2023 9:57:39 AM PST, "ja...@activimetrics.com" <
>> ja...@activimetrics.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> For what its worth, I read Matthias Andree's responses as perfectly
>>> reasonable. Yes the words were not exceedingly polite, but the gruffness
>>> was backed with explanation. I certainly did not read any ad hominem
>>> attacks.
>>>
>>> I was always of the opinion that if you stick with an LTS version of a
>>> distro, you are stuck with *exactly* what the distro decides is worthy
>>> of LTS support.
>>>
>>> Especially in this new world of flatpaks.
>>>
>>> For the record, I run slackware since forever, so building code from
>>> source as a package is something I have to do now and then. I would never
>>> dream of asking the darktable devs to maintain a slackware SlackBuild, let
>>> alone an installable package.
>>>
>>> And when Mr. Volkerding and the inner slackware cabal decide that it is
>>> time to release a new version, one upgrades shortly thereafter.
>>>
>>> Regards, and back to lurking,
>>>
>>> James
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 04, 2023 at 07:43:10AM -0800, Mica Semrick wrote:
>>>
>>> You're making a lot of assumptions here. Seems like you have some deeper
>>> issue than someone asking a simple question about support. Maybe a break
>>> from the computer is in order.
>>>
>>> Happy new year -m
>>>
>>> On January 4, 2023 7:33:59 AM PST, Matthias Andree
>>> matthias.and...@gmx.de wrote: >Am 04.01.23 um 15:58 schrieb Mica
>>> Semrick: >> This answer is a bit rude and doesn't answer the original
>>> query. > >It may be rude if you consider "who cares" rude, and prevents
>>> people >from wasting their time while pointing out the actual issue, which
>>> is >"old distro" which is too old to build darktable 4.2. > >> There is an
>>> unmet dependency in Ubuntu 20.04 and the latest release >> can no longer be
>>> built. See >>
>>> https://discuss.pixls.us/t/what-happened-with-the-obs-builds/33588/2?u=darix
>>> for
>>> >> more information. > >Thanks for mass-confirming what I was writing. >
>>> >And scared users in that thread posted in November 2022, 7 months after
>>> >release, that they still considered Ubuntu "new", when 22.04.1 was out
>>> >and from-LTS-to-next-LTS upgrades had been enabled. Exactly the kind of
>>> >support open-source maintainers want to be distracted with. I haven't
>>> >even looked whether the OBS people are the same as the darktable people,
>>> >but you'd think it best to move things forward rather than tying them up
>>> >in the past. > >The thing is you can't have the cake and eat it, so
>>> everyone please stop >pretending they could. > >Ubuntu 20.04 (code-named
>>> focal fossa) shipped darktable 3.0, and >darktable being in the "universe"
>>> community-unmaintained package set... >being stuck with older darktable is
>>> a choice that people made by NOT >upgrading their Ubuntu LTS in the past
>>> three months. >
>>> https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?suite=focal=names=darktable
>>> > >And it's also either you choose a Ubuntu LTS distro and live with
>>> >whatever unmaintained ("universe") package came with it, and be stuck
>>> >with it, or you pick something that installs an app and all its distro
>>> >deps redundantly in a distro (snap or flatpack, if available) with all
>>> >the drawbacks of its isolation and bulk, or you need to move to a distro
>>> >that is up to speed if your interest is "new software" and integrates
>>> >such quickly. Rolling or frequent releases and distros exist, but that's
>>> >not Ubuntu LTS, and possibly no Debian-based distro at all. > >Having said
>>> that, Fedora 37 or FreeBSD 13.1 built darktable 4.2 nicely >for me. > >I
>>> wonder why all the world can expect everyone to maintain every new >package
>>> for their museum piece of desktop distro install and NOT be >considered
>>> rude. Expecting someone to maintain software or packages >thereof for older
>>> distros, on a voluntary basis, free of charge, is what >I consider egoistic
>>> and rude. It is an enormous waste of resources. > >
>>> >___
>>> >darktable developer mailing list >to unsubscribe send a mail to
>>> darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-dev] OBS packages for xUbuntu
I just built current master on Ubuntu 20.04 with cmake 3.16.1, without any
problems.
On Wed, Jan 4, 2023 at 1:21 PM Mica Semrick wrote:
> Can you not just be polite though? Do we want the default reply here to be
> "gruff with loosely associated facts?"
>
> Essentially the question of "what happened to xxx package" was met with a
> multi paragraph rant about LTS and Ubuntu and whatever. It didn't provide
> the answer but instead veered off on it's own direction.
>
> Not a great way to start the new year, if I'm honest.
>
> -m
>
> On January 4, 2023 9:57:39 AM PST, "ja...@activimetrics.com" <
> ja...@activimetrics.com> wrote:
>>
>> For what its worth, I read Matthias Andree's responses as perfectly
>> reasonable. Yes the words were not exceedingly polite, but the gruffness
>> was backed with explanation. I certainly did not read any ad hominem
>> attacks.
>>
>> I was always of the opinion that if you stick with an LTS version of a
>> distro, you are stuck with *exactly* what the distro decides is worthy
>> of LTS support.
>>
>> Especially in this new world of flatpaks.
>>
>> For the record, I run slackware since forever, so building code from
>> source as a package is something I have to do now and then. I would never
>> dream of asking the darktable devs to maintain a slackware SlackBuild, let
>> alone an installable package.
>>
>> And when Mr. Volkerding and the inner slackware cabal decide that it is
>> time to release a new version, one upgrades shortly thereafter.
>>
>> Regards, and back to lurking,
>>
>> James
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 04, 2023 at 07:43:10AM -0800, Mica Semrick wrote:
>>
>> You're making a lot of assumptions here. Seems like you have some deeper
>> issue than someone asking a simple question about support. Maybe a break
>> from the computer is in order.
>>
>> Happy new year -m
>>
>> On January 4, 2023 7:33:59 AM PST, Matthias Andree matthias.and...@gmx.de
>> wrote: >Am 04.01.23 um 15:58 schrieb Mica Semrick: >> This answer is a bit
>> rude and doesn't answer the original query. > >It may be rude if you
>> consider "who cares" rude, and prevents people >from wasting their time
>> while pointing out the actual issue, which is >"old distro" which is too
>> old to build darktable 4.2. > >> There is an unmet dependency in Ubuntu
>> 20.04 and the latest release >> can no longer be built. See >>
>> https://discuss.pixls.us/t/what-happened-with-the-obs-builds/33588/2?u=darix
>> for
>> >> more information. > >Thanks for mass-confirming what I was writing. >
>> >And scared users in that thread posted in November 2022, 7 months after
>> >release, that they still considered Ubuntu "new", when 22.04.1 was out
>> >and from-LTS-to-next-LTS upgrades had been enabled. Exactly the kind of
>> >support open-source maintainers want to be distracted with. I haven't
>> >even looked whether the OBS people are the same as the darktable people,
>> >but you'd think it best to move things forward rather than tying them up
>> >in the past. > >The thing is you can't have the cake and eat it, so
>> everyone please stop >pretending they could. > >Ubuntu 20.04 (code-named
>> focal fossa) shipped darktable 3.0, and >darktable being in the "universe"
>> community-unmaintained package set... >being stuck with older darktable is
>> a choice that people made by NOT >upgrading their Ubuntu LTS in the past
>> three months. >
>> https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?suite=focal=names=darktable
>> > >And it's also either you choose a Ubuntu LTS distro and live with
>> >whatever unmaintained ("universe") package came with it, and be stuck
>> >with it, or you pick something that installs an app and all its distro
>> >deps redundantly in a distro (snap or flatpack, if available) with all
>> >the drawbacks of its isolation and bulk, or you need to move to a distro
>> >that is up to speed if your interest is "new software" and integrates
>> >such quickly. Rolling or frequent releases and distros exist, but that's
>> >not Ubuntu LTS, and possibly no Debian-based distro at all. > >Having said
>> that, Fedora 37 or FreeBSD 13.1 built darktable 4.2 nicely >for me. > >I
>> wonder why all the world can expect everyone to maintain every new >package
>> for their museum piece of desktop distro install and NOT be >considered
>> rude. Expecting someone to maintain software or packages >thereof for older
>> distros, on a voluntary basis, free of charge, is what >I consider egoistic
>> and rude. It is an enormous waste of resources. > >
>> >___
>> >darktable developer mailing list >to unsubscribe send a mail to
>> darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org >
>> --
>>
>> darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to
>> darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>>
>>
> ___
> darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to
>
Re: [darktable-dev] OBS packages for xUbuntu
Can you not just be polite though? Do we want the default reply here to be
"gruff with loosely associated facts?"
Essentially the question of "what happened to xxx package" was met with a multi
paragraph rant about LTS and Ubuntu and whatever. It didn't provide the answer
but instead veered off on it's own direction.
Not a great way to start the new year, if I'm honest.
-m
On January 4, 2023 9:57:39 AM PST, "ja...@activimetrics.com"
wrote:
>For what its worth, I read Matthias Andree's responses as perfectly
>reasonable. Yes the words were not exceedingly polite, but the
>gruffness was backed with explanation. I certainly did not read any
>ad hominem attacks.
>
>I was always of the opinion that if you stick with an LTS version of a
>distro, you are stuck with *exactly* what the distro decides is worthy
>of LTS support.
>
>Especially in this new world of flatpaks.
>
>For the record, I run slackware since forever, so building code from
>source as a package is something I have to do now and then. I would
>never dream of asking the darktable devs to maintain a slackware
>SlackBuild, let alone an installable package.
>
>And when Mr. Volkerding and the inner slackware cabal decide that it
>is time to release a new version, one upgrades shortly thereafter.
>
>Regards, and back to lurking,
>
>James
>
>On Wed, Jan 04, 2023 at 07:43:10AM -0800, Mica Semrick wrote:
>> You're making a lot of assumptions here. Seems like you have some deeper
>> issue than someone asking a simple question about support. Maybe a break
>> from the computer is in order.
>>
>> Happy new year
>> -m
>>
>> On January 4, 2023 7:33:59 AM PST, Matthias Andree
>> wrote:
>> >Am 04.01.23 um 15:58 schrieb Mica Semrick:
>> >> This answer is a bit rude and doesn't answer the original query.
>> >
>> >It may be rude if you consider "who cares" rude, and prevents people
>> >from wasting their time while pointing out the actual issue, which is
>> >"old distro" which is too old to build darktable 4.2.
>> >
>> >> There is an unmet dependency in Ubuntu 20.04 and the latest release
>> >> can no longer be built. See
>> >> https://discuss.pixls.us/t/what-happened-with-the-obs-builds/33588/2?u=darix
>> >> for
>> >> more information.
>> >
>> >Thanks for mass-confirming what I was writing.
>> >
>> >And scared users in that thread posted in November 2022, 7 months after
>> >release, that they still considered Ubuntu "new", when 22.04.1 was out
>> >and from-LTS-to-next-LTS upgrades had been enabled. Exactly the kind of
>> >support open-source maintainers want to be distracted with. I haven't
>> >even looked whether the OBS people are the same as the darktable people,
>> >but you'd think it best to move things forward rather than tying them up
>> >in the past.
>> >
>> >The thing is you can't have the cake and eat it, so everyone please stop
>> >pretending they could.
>> >
>> >Ubuntu 20.04 (code-named focal fossa) shipped darktable 3.0, and
>> >darktable being in the "universe" community-unmaintained package set...
>> >being stuck with older darktable is a choice that people made by NOT
>> >upgrading their Ubuntu LTS in the past three months.
>> >https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?suite=focal=names=darktable
>> >
>> >And it's also either you choose a Ubuntu LTS distro and live with
>> >whatever unmaintained ("universe") package came with it, and be stuck
>> >with it, or you pick something that installs an app and all its distro
>> >deps redundantly in a distro (snap or flatpack, if available) with all
>> >the drawbacks of its isolation and bulk, or you need to move to a distro
>> >that is up to speed if your interest is "new software" and integrates
>> >such quickly. Rolling or frequent releases and distros exist, but that's
>> >not Ubuntu LTS, and possibly no Debian-based distro at all.
>> >
>> >Having said that, Fedora 37 or FreeBSD 13.1 built darktable 4.2 nicely
>> >for me.
>> >
>> >I wonder why all the world can expect everyone to maintain every new
>> >package for their museum piece of desktop distro install and NOT be
>> >considered rude. Expecting someone to maintain software or packages
>> >thereof for older distros, on a voluntary basis, free of charge, is what
>> >I consider egoistic and rude. It is an enormous waste of resources.
>> >
>> >
>> >___
>> >darktable developer mailing list
>> >to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>> >
>>
>> ___
>> darktable developer mailing list
>> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>>
>
>--
>
>James E. Marca
>Activimetrics LLC
>
>___
>darktable developer mailing list
>to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>
___
Re: [darktable-dev] OBS packages for xUbuntu
For what its worth, I read Matthias Andree's responses as perfectly
reasonable. Yes the words were not exceedingly polite, but the
gruffness was backed with explanation. I certainly did not read any
ad hominem attacks.
I was always of the opinion that if you stick with an LTS version of a
distro, you are stuck with *exactly* what the distro decides is worthy
of LTS support.
Especially in this new world of flatpaks.
For the record, I run slackware since forever, so building code from
source as a package is something I have to do now and then. I would
never dream of asking the darktable devs to maintain a slackware
SlackBuild, let alone an installable package.
And when Mr. Volkerding and the inner slackware cabal decide that it
is time to release a new version, one upgrades shortly thereafter.
Regards, and back to lurking,
James
On Wed, Jan 04, 2023 at 07:43:10AM -0800, Mica Semrick wrote:
> You're making a lot of assumptions here. Seems like you have some deeper
> issue than someone asking a simple question about support. Maybe a break from
> the computer is in order.
>
> Happy new year
> -m
>
> On January 4, 2023 7:33:59 AM PST, Matthias Andree
> wrote:
> >Am 04.01.23 um 15:58 schrieb Mica Semrick:
> >> This answer is a bit rude and doesn't answer the original query.
> >
> >It may be rude if you consider "who cares" rude, and prevents people
> >from wasting their time while pointing out the actual issue, which is
> >"old distro" which is too old to build darktable 4.2.
> >
> >> There is an unmet dependency in Ubuntu 20.04 and the latest release
> >> can no longer be built. See
> >> https://discuss.pixls.us/t/what-happened-with-the-obs-builds/33588/2?u=darix
> >> for
> >> more information.
> >
> >Thanks for mass-confirming what I was writing.
> >
> >And scared users in that thread posted in November 2022, 7 months after
> >release, that they still considered Ubuntu "new", when 22.04.1 was out
> >and from-LTS-to-next-LTS upgrades had been enabled. Exactly the kind of
> >support open-source maintainers want to be distracted with. I haven't
> >even looked whether the OBS people are the same as the darktable people,
> >but you'd think it best to move things forward rather than tying them up
> >in the past.
> >
> >The thing is you can't have the cake and eat it, so everyone please stop
> >pretending they could.
> >
> >Ubuntu 20.04 (code-named focal fossa) shipped darktable 3.0, and
> >darktable being in the "universe" community-unmaintained package set...
> >being stuck with older darktable is a choice that people made by NOT
> >upgrading their Ubuntu LTS in the past three months.
> >https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?suite=focal=names=darktable
> >
> >And it's also either you choose a Ubuntu LTS distro and live with
> >whatever unmaintained ("universe") package came with it, and be stuck
> >with it, or you pick something that installs an app and all its distro
> >deps redundantly in a distro (snap or flatpack, if available) with all
> >the drawbacks of its isolation and bulk, or you need to move to a distro
> >that is up to speed if your interest is "new software" and integrates
> >such quickly. Rolling or frequent releases and distros exist, but that's
> >not Ubuntu LTS, and possibly no Debian-based distro at all.
> >
> >Having said that, Fedora 37 or FreeBSD 13.1 built darktable 4.2 nicely
> >for me.
> >
> >I wonder why all the world can expect everyone to maintain every new
> >package for their museum piece of desktop distro install and NOT be
> >considered rude. Expecting someone to maintain software or packages
> >thereof for older distros, on a voluntary basis, free of charge, is what
> >I consider egoistic and rude. It is an enormous waste of resources.
> >
> >
> >___
> >darktable developer mailing list
> >to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
> >
>
> ___
> darktable developer mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>
--
James E. Marca
Activimetrics LLC
___
darktable developer mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-dev] OBS packages for xUbuntu
You're making a lot of assumptions here. Seems like you have some deeper issue
than someone asking a simple question about support. Maybe a break from the
computer is in order.
Happy new year
-m
On January 4, 2023 7:33:59 AM PST, Matthias Andree
wrote:
>Am 04.01.23 um 15:58 schrieb Mica Semrick:
>> This answer is a bit rude and doesn't answer the original query.
>
>It may be rude if you consider "who cares" rude, and prevents people
>from wasting their time while pointing out the actual issue, which is
>"old distro" which is too old to build darktable 4.2.
>
>> There is an unmet dependency in Ubuntu 20.04 and the latest release
>> can no longer be built. See
>> https://discuss.pixls.us/t/what-happened-with-the-obs-builds/33588/2?u=darix
>> for
>> more information.
>
>Thanks for mass-confirming what I was writing.
>
>And scared users in that thread posted in November 2022, 7 months after
>release, that they still considered Ubuntu "new", when 22.04.1 was out
>and from-LTS-to-next-LTS upgrades had been enabled. Exactly the kind of
>support open-source maintainers want to be distracted with. I haven't
>even looked whether the OBS people are the same as the darktable people,
>but you'd think it best to move things forward rather than tying them up
>in the past.
>
>The thing is you can't have the cake and eat it, so everyone please stop
>pretending they could.
>
>Ubuntu 20.04 (code-named focal fossa) shipped darktable 3.0, and
>darktable being in the "universe" community-unmaintained package set...
>being stuck with older darktable is a choice that people made by NOT
>upgrading their Ubuntu LTS in the past three months.
>https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?suite=focal=names=darktable
>
>And it's also either you choose a Ubuntu LTS distro and live with
>whatever unmaintained ("universe") package came with it, and be stuck
>with it, or you pick something that installs an app and all its distro
>deps redundantly in a distro (snap or flatpack, if available) with all
>the drawbacks of its isolation and bulk, or you need to move to a distro
>that is up to speed if your interest is "new software" and integrates
>such quickly. Rolling or frequent releases and distros exist, but that's
>not Ubuntu LTS, and possibly no Debian-based distro at all.
>
>Having said that, Fedora 37 or FreeBSD 13.1 built darktable 4.2 nicely
>for me.
>
>I wonder why all the world can expect everyone to maintain every new
>package for their museum piece of desktop distro install and NOT be
>considered rude. Expecting someone to maintain software or packages
>thereof for older distros, on a voluntary basis, free of charge, is what
>I consider egoistic and rude. It is an enormous waste of resources.
>
>
>___
>darktable developer mailing list
>to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>
___
darktable developer mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-dev] OBS packages for xUbuntu
Am 04.01.23 um 15:58 schrieb Mica Semrick:
This answer is a bit rude and doesn't answer the original query.
It may be rude if you consider "who cares" rude, and prevents people
from wasting their time while pointing out the actual issue, which is
"old distro" which is too old to build darktable 4.2.
There is an unmet dependency in Ubuntu 20.04 and the latest release
can no longer be built. See
https://discuss.pixls.us/t/what-happened-with-the-obs-builds/33588/2?u=darix for
more information.
Thanks for mass-confirming what I was writing.
And scared users in that thread posted in November 2022, 7 months after
release, that they still considered Ubuntu "new", when 22.04.1 was out
and from-LTS-to-next-LTS upgrades had been enabled. Exactly the kind of
support open-source maintainers want to be distracted with. I haven't
even looked whether the OBS people are the same as the darktable people,
but you'd think it best to move things forward rather than tying them up
in the past.
The thing is you can't have the cake and eat it, so everyone please stop
pretending they could.
Ubuntu 20.04 (code-named focal fossa) shipped darktable 3.0, and
darktable being in the "universe" community-unmaintained package set...
being stuck with older darktable is a choice that people made by NOT
upgrading their Ubuntu LTS in the past three months.
https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?suite=focal=names=darktable
And it's also either you choose a Ubuntu LTS distro and live with
whatever unmaintained ("universe") package came with it, and be stuck
with it, or you pick something that installs an app and all its distro
deps redundantly in a distro (snap or flatpack, if available) with all
the drawbacks of its isolation and bulk, or you need to move to a distro
that is up to speed if your interest is "new software" and integrates
such quickly. Rolling or frequent releases and distros exist, but that's
not Ubuntu LTS, and possibly no Debian-based distro at all.
Having said that, Fedora 37 or FreeBSD 13.1 built darktable 4.2 nicely
for me.
I wonder why all the world can expect everyone to maintain every new
package for their museum piece of desktop distro install and NOT be
considered rude. Expecting someone to maintain software or packages
thereof for older distros, on a voluntary basis, free of charge, is what
I consider egoistic and rude. It is an enormous waste of resources.
___
darktable developer mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-dev] OBS packages for xUbuntu
This answer is a bit rude and doesn't answer the original query. There is an unmet dependency in Ubuntu 20.04 and the latest release can no longer be built. See https://discuss.pixls.us/t/what-happened-with-the-obs-builds/33588/2?u=darix for more information. You can always try the flatpak. -m On January 4, 2023 1:58:37 AM PST, Matthias Andree wrote: >Am 04.01.23 um 04:51 schrieb Bob Tregilus: >> Hi - >> >> I'm not sure who I should alert to this issue, someone on this dev >> list or should I write to OBS support? >> >> On the openSUSE contributors OBS they list the following four 4.2.0 >> darktable builds for Unbuntu based distros (I added the support >> information): >> >> xUbuntu 22.10 is supported to 2023-07. >> >> xUbuntu 22.04 (LTS) is supported to 2027-04-21. >> >> xUbuntu 21.10 support *ended* 2022-07-14. >> >> xUbuntu 21.04 support *ended* 2022-01-20. >> >> But now missing is a 4.2.0 build for the older: >> >> xUbuntu 20.04 (LTS) which is supported to 2025-04-23. > >Who cares? > >The proper answer is: Do not use older Ubuntu distros on desktops, >Ubuntu are only maintaining a very small subset of packages in the LTS >context (and understandably so because it's redundant effort), and >please do not ask to encourage people shooting themselves in the foot >with that by providing new packages on older distros. Instead, teach >desktop users to stay updated. > >> $ ubuntu-security-status >> 989 packages installed, of which: >> 859 receive package updates with LTS until 4/2025 > >Meaning 130 packages without any security updates (this is xubuntu 20.04 >that I use as mostly-headless build server for mail-related software), >and on typical desktop installs, it's usually much worse. Ubuntu's "LTS" >tag, for desktops, is window dressing. > >Only main/restricted aka base packages receive "support". >https://ubuntu.com/about/release-cycle but not many of community >packages which I found make up considerable parts of desktop installs. > >___ >darktable developer mailing list >to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org > ___ darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-dev] OBS packages for xUbuntu
As old Ubuntu versions may and probably are lacking of some up to date dependencies, probably installing a flatpak package would be a good solution. Also I struggle to imagine a use-case where someone needs the newest darktable version but refuses to update whole distro. Why would it be? W dniu 4.01.2023 o 04:51, Bob Tregilus pisze: Hi - I'm not sure who I should alert to this issue, someone on this dev list or should I write to OBS support? On the openSUSE contributors OBS they list the following four 4.2.0 darktable builds for Unbuntu based distros (I added the support information): xUbuntu 22.10 is supported to 2023-07. xUbuntu 22.04 (LTS) is supported to 2027-04-21. xUbuntu 21.10 support *ended* 2022-07-14. xUbuntu 21.04 support *ended* 2022-01-20. But now missing is a 4.2.0 build for the older: xUbuntu 20.04 (LTS) which is supported to 2025-04-23. Webpage reference: https://software.opensuse.org/download.html?project=graphics:darktable=darktable I can certainly install from source, but it would be nice if there were a package for the older xUbuntu 20.04 (LTS) given it is supported for another two years. Thanks everyone for your hard work on darktable--best RAW developer out there! Bob ___ darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-dev] OBS packages for xUbuntu
Am 04.01.23 um 04:51 schrieb Bob Tregilus: Hi - I'm not sure who I should alert to this issue, someone on this dev list or should I write to OBS support? On the openSUSE contributors OBS they list the following four 4.2.0 darktable builds for Unbuntu based distros (I added the support information): xUbuntu 22.10 is supported to 2023-07. xUbuntu 22.04 (LTS) is supported to 2027-04-21. xUbuntu 21.10 support *ended* 2022-07-14. xUbuntu 21.04 support *ended* 2022-01-20. But now missing is a 4.2.0 build for the older: xUbuntu 20.04 (LTS) which is supported to 2025-04-23. Who cares? The proper answer is: Do not use older Ubuntu distros on desktops, Ubuntu are only maintaining a very small subset of packages in the LTS context (and understandably so because it's redundant effort), and please do not ask to encourage people shooting themselves in the foot with that by providing new packages on older distros. Instead, teach desktop users to stay updated. $ ubuntu-security-status 989 packages installed, of which: 859 receive package updates with LTS until 4/2025 Meaning 130 packages without any security updates (this is xubuntu 20.04 that I use as mostly-headless build server for mail-related software), and on typical desktop installs, it's usually much worse. Ubuntu's "LTS" tag, for desktops, is window dressing. Only main/restricted aka base packages receive "support". https://ubuntu.com/about/release-cycle but not many of community packages which I found make up considerable parts of desktop installs. ___ darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
