Re: [darktable-user] exiv2 and darktable
Forking does not contribute to the project. It contributes to a new project, which darktable may not necessarily adopt. Then I have to also fork darktable, which means that I have now solved my problem, and my problem only, until my fork of exiv2 is merged back into the original project, which is guaranteed not to happen if the lawyers do not get back to the project leaders. I was actually told that someone already forked EXIV2 0.27 to include AVIF, but that fork will not be merged in EXIV2 0.28, which Mills is currently working on, —his last involvement before someone else takes control of the project,— and as far as I can tell, is a one man effort. I have to trust that one man, to trust that one fork. [ASIDE] Also, I understand that his fork uses dav1d, and not aomd, which is what I use, and that may just mean a little more work for me. Not that it is a big deal; currently I compile my own exiv2, aom, avid, gthumb, gphoto, and darktable anyway, so as to get full WebP support and partial AVIF support, but dav1d requires a different set of compile tools, which , again, not a big deal. [/ASIDE] So, forking the project helps me, and me only, (for now), not the project, or others who use it. As I said, my biggest problems are lawyers failing to communicate. Had they done that, better programmers than I would have had AVIf support in exiv2 long ago, as more capable programmers were already willing to do the work. Sincerely, Karim Hosein Top Rock Photography 754.999.1652 On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 at 21:20, Patrick Shanahan wrote: > * Top Rock Photography [01-29-21 21:14]: > > My only demand is that the lawyer gets on the phone and speak to the AOM > > people. It has been almost one year! IANAL…. > > > > …But I have read the AOM license,, and I have studied the case of Nokia > vs > > the other members of AOM, and HEIF. In that case, all the other lawyers > > claim that a) Nokia never held a patent on the parts of HEIF used in > > AV1/AVIF, and, whatever patent they claim to have would have already > > expired. > > > > That leaves all remaining patents within the powers of AOM and their > > licensing. > > > > The issue was not coding, but waiting to hear from the lawyer…. for > almost > > a year. Robin Mills was willing to work on the code at one point, but > > several people kept claiming that, despite the publicly available > license, > > and the work done by clothes, (including Exiftool), that Mills cannot put > > any code which reads the metadata (forget about even writing it), into > > exiv2. It ended with him running out of time, because no lawyer got back > to > > give the go-ahead, (or to affirm that it could not be done). Ergo, it > will > > not be done for exiv2 version 0.28. > > > > Well, that is what the closed, feature request thread says. (It does not > > say, “about a year,” but it has been over a year since the > thread/response > > was started, and mills giving his stance on 0.28 was almost a year ago). > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Karim Hosein > > Top Rock Photography > > 754.999.1652 > > > > > > > > On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 at 17:19, Martin Straeten > > > wrote: > > > > > Why don’t you take over the responsibility for the project? And be > fully > > > accountable for a possible copyright or patent infringement? > > > It is presumptuous to demand something from others that you are not > > > willing to contribute yourself. > > > > > > Am 29.01.2021 um 20:11 schrieb Top Rock Photography < > > > ka...@toprockphotography.com>: > > > > > > > > > My only concern is that, although AVIF is not patent encumbered, he > > > refused to add the reading/writing of metadata data to AVIF, until he > > > speaks to a lawyer. That has been quite a long time ago and so, my AVIF > > > files made by darktable seem to have no metadata. > > > > > > Currently, Exiftool is no better (in that regard). Worse yet, aside > from > > > the most popular browsers, (Firefox, Chrome/Chromium), I cannot find a > > > viewer for AVIF files. > > > > > > Does one really need a lawyer to work for over one year to decide that > the > > > reading/writing of metadata in an AVIF does NOT violate any patents not > > > covered by the open license? Is his lawyer billing him at US$20,000 > per day? > > > > > > I am confident that the exiv2 project will be taken over. I just hope > that > > > whoever takes it over has a lawyer who knows how to make phone calls > and/or > > > write letters. > > > > > > I have other issues on AVIF support, but this is not the thread for > that. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to > > > darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org > > > = > > > > > > > > > > > > > darktable user mailing list > > to unsubscribe send a mail to > darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org > > > but leaves you free to
Re: [darktable-user] exiv2 and darktable
* Top Rock Photography [01-29-21 21:14]: > My only demand is that the lawyer gets on the phone and speak to the AOM > people. It has been almost one year! IANAL…. > > …But I have read the AOM license,, and I have studied the case of Nokia vs > the other members of AOM, and HEIF. In that case, all the other lawyers > claim that a) Nokia never held a patent on the parts of HEIF used in > AV1/AVIF, and, whatever patent they claim to have would have already > expired. > > That leaves all remaining patents within the powers of AOM and their > licensing. > > The issue was not coding, but waiting to hear from the lawyer…. for almost > a year. Robin Mills was willing to work on the code at one point, but > several people kept claiming that, despite the publicly available license, > and the work done by clothes, (including Exiftool), that Mills cannot put > any code which reads the metadata (forget about even writing it), into > exiv2. It ended with him running out of time, because no lawyer got back to > give the go-ahead, (or to affirm that it could not be done). Ergo, it will > not be done for exiv2 version 0.28. > > Well, that is what the closed, feature request thread says. (It does not > say, “about a year,” but it has been over a year since the thread/response > was started, and mills giving his stance on 0.28 was almost a year ago). > > Sincerely, > > Karim Hosein > Top Rock Photography > 754.999.1652 > > > > On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 at 17:19, Martin Straeten > wrote: > > > Why don’t you take over the responsibility for the project? And be fully > > accountable for a possible copyright or patent infringement? > > It is presumptuous to demand something from others that you are not > > willing to contribute yourself. > > > > Am 29.01.2021 um 20:11 schrieb Top Rock Photography < > > ka...@toprockphotography.com>: > > > > > > My only concern is that, although AVIF is not patent encumbered, he > > refused to add the reading/writing of metadata data to AVIF, until he > > speaks to a lawyer. That has been quite a long time ago and so, my AVIF > > files made by darktable seem to have no metadata. > > > > Currently, Exiftool is no better (in that regard). Worse yet, aside from > > the most popular browsers, (Firefox, Chrome/Chromium), I cannot find a > > viewer for AVIF files. > > > > Does one really need a lawyer to work for over one year to decide that the > > reading/writing of metadata in an AVIF does NOT violate any patents not > > covered by the open license? Is his lawyer billing him at US$20,000 per day? > > > > I am confident that the exiv2 project will be taken over. I just hope that > > whoever takes it over has a lawyer who knows how to make phone calls and/or > > write letters. > > > > I have other issues on AVIF support, but this is not the thread for that. > > > > > >> > > > > darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to > > darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org > > = > > > > > > > darktable user mailing list > to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org but leaves you free to fork the project and include support for avif and no longer wait for the laywers. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] exiv2 and darktable
My only demand is that the lawyer gets on the phone and speak to the AOM people. It has been almost one year! IANAL…. …But I have read the AOM license,, and I have studied the case of Nokia vs the other members of AOM, and HEIF. In that case, all the other lawyers claim that a) Nokia never held a patent on the parts of HEIF used in AV1/AVIF, and, whatever patent they claim to have would have already expired. That leaves all remaining patents within the powers of AOM and their licensing. The issue was not coding, but waiting to hear from the lawyer…. for almost a year. Robin Mills was willing to work on the code at one point, but several people kept claiming that, despite the publicly available license, and the work done by clothes, (including Exiftool), that Mills cannot put any code which reads the metadata (forget about even writing it), into exiv2. It ended with him running out of time, because no lawyer got back to give the go-ahead, (or to affirm that it could not be done). Ergo, it will not be done for exiv2 version 0.28. Well, that is what the closed, feature request thread says. (It does not say, “about a year,” but it has been over a year since the thread/response was started, and mills giving his stance on 0.28 was almost a year ago). Sincerely, Karim Hosein Top Rock Photography 754.999.1652 On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 at 17:19, Martin Straeten wrote: > Why don’t you take over the responsibility for the project? And be fully > accountable for a possible copyright or patent infringement? > It is presumptuous to demand something from others that you are not > willing to contribute yourself. > > Am 29.01.2021 um 20:11 schrieb Top Rock Photography < > ka...@toprockphotography.com>: > > > My only concern is that, although AVIF is not patent encumbered, he > refused to add the reading/writing of metadata data to AVIF, until he > speaks to a lawyer. That has been quite a long time ago and so, my AVIF > files made by darktable seem to have no metadata. > > Currently, Exiftool is no better (in that regard). Worse yet, aside from > the most popular browsers, (Firefox, Chrome/Chromium), I cannot find a > viewer for AVIF files. > > Does one really need a lawyer to work for over one year to decide that the > reading/writing of metadata in an AVIF does NOT violate any patents not > covered by the open license? Is his lawyer billing him at US$20,000 per day? > > I am confident that the exiv2 project will be taken over. I just hope that > whoever takes it over has a lawyer who knows how to make phone calls and/or > write letters. > > I have other issues on AVIF support, but this is not the thread for that. > > >> > > darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to > darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org > = > > darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] exiv2 and darktable
Why don’t you take over the responsibility for the project? And be fully accountable for a possible copyright or patent infringement? It is presumptuous to demand something from others that you are not willing to contribute yourself. > Am 29.01.2021 um 20:11 schrieb Top Rock Photography > : > > > My only concern is that, although AVIF is not patent encumbered, he refused > to add the reading/writing of metadata data to AVIF, until he speaks to a > lawyer. That has been quite a long time ago and so, my AVIF files made by > darktable seem to have no metadata. > > Currently, Exiftool is no better (in that regard). Worse yet, aside from the > most popular browsers, (Firefox, Chrome/Chromium), I cannot find a viewer for > AVIF files. > > Does one really need a lawyer to work for over one year to decide that the > reading/writing of metadata in an AVIF does NOT violate any patents not > covered by the open license? Is his lawyer billing him at US$20,000 per day? > > I am confident that the exiv2 project will be taken over. I just hope that > whoever takes it over has a lawyer who knows how to make phone calls and/or > write letters. > > I have other issues on AVIF support, but this is not the thread for that. > > Sincerely, > > Karim Hosein > Top Rock Photography > 754.999.1652 > > > >> >> >> a: How will this affect DT? >> b: Supplementary question: Would exiftool be an alternative for DT? >> > > > darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to > darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org > = darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] exiv2 and darktable
My only concern is that, although AVIF is not patent encumbered, he refused to add the reading/writing of metadata data to AVIF, until he speaks to a lawyer. That has been quite a long time ago and so, my AVIF files made by darktable seem to have no metadata. Currently, Exiftool is no better (in that regard). Worse yet, aside from the most popular browsers, (Firefox, Chrome/Chromium), I cannot find a viewer for AVIF files. Does one really need a lawyer to work for over one year to decide that the reading/writing of metadata in an AVIF does NOT violate any patents not covered by the open license? Is his lawyer billing him at US$20,000 per day? I am confident that the exiv2 project will be taken over. I just hope that whoever takes it over has a lawyer who knows how to make phone calls and/or write letters. I have other issues on AVIF support, but this is not the thread for that. Sincerely, Karim Hosein Top Rock Photography 754.999.1652 > > a: How will this affect DT? > b: Supplementary question: Would exiftool be an alternative for DT? > > darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] exiv2 and darktable
On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 22:03:39 -0300 Guillermo Rozas wrote: > Because of several comments and the general tone of the posts by > Robin Mills (and some of the current contributors to exiv2) on > PIXLS.US during the last year, which I won't link here. The two > linked discussions were meant to show that there are people working > on exiv2, and that although Robin's retirement will be a huge loss > for the project, it doesn't mean exiv2 is dead. I didn't say that exiv2 was dead. Right now, as far as I understand, exiv2 is in limbo. What usually happens is either: 1. somebody steps up 2. some active project decides to incorporate it and dedicate resources to keep it alive 3. let it wither on the vine Currently, neither alternative 1 or 2 has happened after almost a year of Robin Mills announcing his retirement. Which is why I asked: a: How will this affect DT? b: Supplementary question: Would exiftool be an alternative for DT? Thank you -- sknahT vyS darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] exiv2 and darktable
Because of several comments and the general tone of the posts by Robin Mills (and some of the current contributors to exiv2) on PIXLS.US during the last year, which I won't link here. The two linked discussions were meant to show that there are people working on exiv2, and that although Robin's retirement will be a huge loss for the project, it doesn't mean exiv2 is dead. Regards, Guillermo On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 8:03 PM DougC wrote: > I don't see why you conclude the exiv2 project is safe. After a full month > of appeals there is still no maintainer announced in the first thread you > link to, nor on the web site, nor on the github site. > > Doug C. > > > > On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 15:11:50 -0500 *Guillermo Rozas > >* wrote > > The future of exiv2 is safe, don't worry: > > https://discuss.pixls.us/t/maintainer-urgently-needed-for-exiv2/21547 > https://discuss.pixls.us/t/canon-cr3-raw-support-your-move/14192 > > Regards, > Guillermo > > > > > > darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to > darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org > darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] exiv2 and darktable
I don't see why you conclude the exiv2 project is safe. After a full month of appeals there is still no maintainer announced in the first thread you link to, nor on the web site, nor on the github site. Doug C. On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 15:11:50 -0500 Guillermo Rozas wrote The future of exiv2 is safe, don't worry: https://discuss.pixls.us/t/maintainer-urgently-needed-for-exiv2/21547 https://discuss.pixls.us/t/canon-cr3-raw-support-your-move/14192 Regards, Guillermo darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] exiv2 and darktable
The future of exiv2 is safe, don't worry: https://discuss.pixls.us/t/maintainer-urgently-needed-for-exiv2/21547 https://discuss.pixls.us/t/canon-cr3-raw-support-your-move/14192 Regards, Guillermo On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 5:03 PM wrote: > From reading various notes, DT uses exiv2 to write the xmp > sidecars. > > I'm wondering what will happen since Robin Mills, the maintainer has > retired and will not provide any further updates. > > It doesn't look like anybody else is taking over/forking exiv2. > > How will this impact Darktable? > > -- > sknahT > > vyS > > > darktable user mailing list > to unsubscribe send a mail to > darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org > > darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
