Bug#322620: beneath-a-steel-sky: subtitles inconsistent with spoken audio in a conversation in front of Burke's Bio Surgery
* Francesco Poli > I'm attaching it, so that you (i.e. Tore), Ender and any Debian BTS > visitor can see for themselves. Swedish subs: Rob: Hur gör jag för att komma ut ur staden? Cool: Har du hört talas om AVLOPP? Rob: Menar du inte AVHOPP? Cool: Öhh? Var det inte DET jag sa? Rob: Jag frågade hur man KOM UT ur staden... ...inte om nåt KLOAKSYSTEM. Cool: Du pratar STRUNT! ...och hur som helst så KAN du inte lämna staden. Resor är i princip FÖRBJUDNA. My translation: Rob: What do I do to get out of town? Cool: Have you heard speak of DRAINS? Rob: Don't you mean DEFECTION? Cool: Uhh? Was THAT not what I said? Rob: I asked how one GOT OUT of town... ...not about any SEWER SYSTEM. Cool: You're talking NONSENSE! ...and in any case you CAN not leave town. Travels are in principle FORBIDDEN. Although they don't match entirely, I'm assuming the translator felt it was more important to keep the similarity between the word all the confusion is about (avlopp<->avhopp and defecation<->defection), than to ensure that the meaning was unchanged. I guess keeping the similarity while at the same time not changing the meaning at all would be impossible in Swedish. In any case, I've send an email to Tony Warriner of Revolution Software and have asked him if he can remember any reason for the discrepancy. Mayhap there's some jolly story behind it. Regards -- Tore Anderson
Bug#322620: beneath-a-steel-sky: subtitles inconsistent with spoken audio in a conversation in front of Burke's Bio Surgery
On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 15:39:26 +0200 Tore Anderson wrote: [...] > Swedish subs: [...] > My translation: [...] > Although they don't match entirely, I'm assuming the translator felt > it was more important to keep the similarity between the word all the > confusion is about (avlopp<->avhopp and defecation<->defection), than > to ensure that the meaning was unchanged. Yes, that's a reasonable assumption. And I think it's quite common practice in gag and joke localization: whenever you cannot keep *both* meaning and wordplay-based humour, it's usually better to change the former in order to keep the latter. > I guess keeping the > similarity while at the same time not changing the meaning at all > would be impossible in Swedish. Since unfortunately I do not speak Swedish (not even a little...), I have to trust your conclusion. But I believe you, as I have *no* reason to *not* do so. > > In any case, I've send an email to Tony Warriner of Revolution > Software and have asked him if he can remember any reason for the > discrepancy. Mayhap there's some jolly story behind it. Thanks. -- :-( This Universe is buggy! Where's the Creator's BTS? ;-) .. Francesco Poli GnuPG Key ID = DD6DFCF4 Key fingerprint = C979 F34B 27CE 5CD8 DC12 31B5 78F4 279B DD6D FCF4 pgpDZlxirs4qu.pgp Description: PGP signature
Bug#322620: beneath-a-steel-sky: subtitles inconsistent with spoken audio in a conversation in front of Burke's Bio Surgery
Package: beneath-a-steel-sky Version: 0.0368-3 Severity: minor When I reach Burke's Bio Surgery and talk to the fancy man in front of the door, if I ask about going out of the city, I see subtitles that are completely different from the spoken audio. This should be fixed by replacing those subtitles with transcriptions of the spoken audio. -- System Information: Debian Release: 3.1 Architecture: i386 (i686) Kernel: Linux 2.4.31-acpi-cfrq Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C (charmap=ANSI_X3.4-1968) Versions of packages beneath-a-steel-sky depends on: ii scummvm 0.7.1-1free implementation of LucasArts' -- no debconf information -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#322620: beneath-a-steel-sky: subtitles inconsistent with spoken audio in a conversation in front of Burke's Bio Surgery
This behavior is as intended by upstream. The subtitles are not intended to be a direct 1:1 copy of the speech, as they are based off the GAME script - not the recording script. There are a number of reasons for that, but it's not going to be rewritten. Differences occur in many places in the game, including some lines of subtitled dialog that don't even have recorded voice lines. So to sum: All game text is based off the game script, partly for translation purposes. The audio is a seperate feature and not intended to directly corrospond. - Jamea 'Ender' Brown Co-Lead Developer, ScummVM On Thu, 2005-08-11 at 22:28 +0200, Francesco Poli wrote: > Package: beneath-a-steel-sky > Version: 0.0368-3 > Severity: minor > > When I reach Burke's Bio Surgery and talk to the fancy man > in front of the door, if I ask about going out of the city, > I see subtitles that are completely different from the spoken > audio. > > This should be fixed by replacing those subtitles with transcriptions > of the spoken audio. > > > -- System Information: > Debian Release: 3.1 > Architecture: i386 (i686) > Kernel: Linux 2.4.31-acpi-cfrq > Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C (charmap=ANSI_X3.4-1968) > > Versions of packages beneath-a-steel-sky depends on: > ii scummvm 0.7.1-1free implementation of > LucasArts' > > -- no debconf information > > -- James 'Ender' Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#322620: beneath-a-steel-sky: subtitles inconsistent with spoken audio in a conversation in front of Burke's Bio Surgery
close 322620 quit * James 'Ender' Brown > All game text is based off the game script, partly for translation > purposes. The audio is a seperate feature and not intended to directly > corrospond. Thanks for this clarification, Ender. I am closing this bug based on it. Thanks for reporting bugs, though, Francesco. Friendly -- Tore Anderson -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#322620: beneath-a-steel-sky: subtitles inconsistent with spoken audio in a conversation in front of Burke's Bio Surgery
On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 08:47:27 +0200 Tore Anderson wrote: > * James 'Ender' Brown > > > All game text is based off the game script, partly for translation > > purposes. The audio is a seperate feature and not intended to > > directly corrospond. > > Thanks for this clarification, Ender. I am closing this bug based > on it. Thanks for reporting bugs, though, Francesco. Well, I may consider small differences in the letter as reasonable. But what I'm talking about is a case where the *meaning* of the dialog is definitely different between speech and subtitles! It may well be intended (more on this later), but it appears to me as a *bug* anyway... In the meanwhile, I've done further investigation about this, ahem, bug. BTW, if you need a game-save done just before the conversation in question, do not hesitate to ask. The wrong (English) subtitles are the following ones: Rob: How can I get out of the City? Mr Cool: WHY? Aren't you HAPPY here? Rob: I want to get back to the GAP... Mr Cool: Are you SERIOUS? Rob: Oh yes. I've seen enough of the City... ...MORE than enough. Mr Cool: Listen, I don't want to DEPRESS you... ...but you can't CHANGE your DESTINY... ...at least not without official SANCTION. The corresponding spoken phrases are roughly as follows (at least this is how I understood them: take into account that I am *not* an English native speaker, so I may be wrong): Rob: How can I get out of the City? Mr Cool: What have you thought about? DEFECATION? Rob: Don't you mean DEFECTION? Mr Cool: What? It's not what I said? Rob: I asked you about leaving the City... ...not bodily processes! Mr Cool: Do not making SENSE! ...but anyway you can't leave the City. There's a RESTRICTION on travel. One surprising thing that I noticed is that other subtitles (Italian, Spanish, French, Portuguese) are much more close to the meaning of the spoken audio than English subtitles. Actually those other subtitles seem to resemble to a translation of the spoken phrases, while English subtitles just tell a different story... Note that I'm an Italian native speaker, but I do not speak Spanish, French or Portuguese. Consequently I'm not absolutely sure about the latter languages; anyway it really looks like those subtitles have a meaning similar to the Italian one... I even checked German and Swedish subtitles, but I'm really not qualified to tell what they mean. For the record, they seem to be structured similarly to the other non-English ones... Since English subtitles seem to be much softer than the spoken audio (and than non-English subtitles), this discrepancy smells like censorship or something. Are you aware of any issues that Revolution Software had to face in English-speaking countries? -- :-( This Universe is buggy! Where's the Creator's BTS? ;-) .. Francesco Poli GnuPG Key ID = DD6DFCF4 Key fingerprint = C979 F34B 27CE 5CD8 DC12 31B5 78F4 279B DD6D FCF4 pgp4LERQ0O1vq.pgp Description: PGP signature
Bug#322620: beneath-a-steel-sky: subtitles inconsistent with spoken audio in a conversation in front of Burke's Bio Surgery
* Francesco Poli > Well, I may consider small differences in the letter as reasonable. > But what I'm talking about is a case where the *meaning* of the dialog > is definitely different between speech and subtitles! > It may well be intended (more on this later), but it appears to me as > a *bug* anyway... It agree it seems kinda strange. However I'm not willing to fork ScummVM over in order to have a «ScummVM - Debian Edition» containing a fix for this particular issue. It's much too minor for that, as I see it. You should rather convince upstream (ie. Ender). > I even checked German and Swedish subtitles, but I'm really not > qualified to tell what they mean. For the record, they seem to > be structured similarly to the other non-English ones... I'm Norwegian, so I understand Swedish perfectly. I could always translate those subs for you if you want. > Since English subtitles seem to be much softer than the spoken > audio (and than non-English subtitles), this discrepancy smells > like censorship or something. > Are you aware of any issues that Revolution Software had to face > in English-speaking countries? If I recall correctly, they had to change the logo on the beer can in the intro, because the brewery (Foster's?) didn't like them using their trademark or something. Also I know that the Americans are quite anal about language, maybe they didn't like «defecation». (Sorry about the pun...) Grazie -- Tore Anderson
Bug#322620: beneath-a-steel-sky: subtitles inconsistent with spoken audio in a conversation in front of Burke's Bio Surgery
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 09:06:00 +0200 Tore Anderson wrote: > * Francesco Poli > > > Well, I may consider small differences in the letter as reasonable. > > But what I'm talking about is a case where the *meaning* of the > > dialog is definitely different between speech and subtitles! > > It may well be intended (more on this later), but it appears to me > > as a *bug* anyway... > > It agree it seems kinda strange. However I'm not willing to fork > ScummVM over in order to have a «ScummVM - Debian Edition» > containing a fix for this particular issue. Huh? I would say this is a bug in the game data, not in the engine. What you should do, AIUI, is modify beneath-a-steel-sky so that the right (consistent) subtitles appear, rather than the awkward ones... I cannot see where are the difficulties: it's a matter of simple string substitution, isn't it? Maybe I'm a bit ignorant about the data format, but the subtitles must be included somewhere inside them, right? > It's much too minor for > that, as I see it. You should rather convince upstream (ie. Ender). As I see it, upstream is Revolution Software and I don't count on seeing a new _Beneath a Steel Sky_ version out... > > > I even checked German and Swedish subtitles, but I'm really not > > qualified to tell what they mean. For the record, they seem to > > be structured similarly to the other non-English ones... > > I'm Norwegian, so I understand Swedish perfectly. I could always > translate those subs for you if you want. Well, to me even writing down Swedish subtitles while I see them on screen is too difficult! :-( As I said, I can send you a game-save from which you can see subtitles by yourself: I had real fun in reading that conversation in all kind of languages! ;-) > > > Since English subtitles seem to be much softer than the spoken > > audio (and than non-English subtitles), this discrepancy smells > > like censorship or something. > > Are you aware of any issues that Revolution Software had to face > > in English-speaking countries? > > If I recall correctly, they had to change the logo on the beer can > in the intro, because the brewery (Foster's?) didn't like them using > their trademark or something. Also I know that the Americans are > quite anal about language, maybe they didn't like «defecation». > (Sorry about the pun...) Maybe someone went mad about that dialog, but what's funny is that only English subtitles were changed. English speech was left untouched... :-? > > Grazie Prego! [ You're welcome! ] And so we start the "Debian BTS teach yourself Italian in 24 bugs" series... ;-) -- :-( This Universe is buggy! Where's the Creator's BTS? ;-) .. Francesco Poli GnuPG Key ID = DD6DFCF4 Key fingerprint = C979 F34B 27CE 5CD8 DC12 31B5 78F4 279B DD6D FCF4 pgpCxuqcfpkiH.pgp Description: PGP signature
Bug#322620: beneath-a-steel-sky: subtitles inconsistent with spoken audio in a conversation in front of Burke's Bio Surgery
* Francesco Poli > Huh? > I would say this is a bug in the game data, not in the engine. Sorry, I meant BASS. > As I see it, upstream is Revolution Software and I don't count on > seeing a new _Beneath a Steel Sky_ version out... The ScummVM team has for all practical purposes become the upstream for BASS after it was made free software. That's why I defer the decision on how to hande this issue to them, and as Ender said "it's supposed to be this way", I will respect that. If you can convince him to change it, then of course that change will show up in the Debian package. > Well, to me even writing down Swedish subtitles while I see them on > screen is too difficult! :-( > As I said, I can send you a game-save from which you can see subtitles > by yourself: I had real fun in reading that conversation in all kind > of languages! ;-) Feel free to send me a save-game if you want me to translate it - I don't really have time to play all the way there myself right now. > Maybe someone went mad about that dialog, but what's funny is that only > English subtitles were changed. English speech was left untouched... Maybe because the floppy version didn't have speech, and were thus able to get a lower maturity rating somewhere... I don't really know. You could ask Tony Warriner at Revolution, though, if anyone know why it must be him. > And so we start the "Debian BTS teach yourself Italian in 24 bugs" > series... ;-) Non ho bisogno di più bugs, perché ho già imparato l'Italiano! :-) Forse non molto bene, ma abbastanza per ordinare una birra o quattordici... :-) Ciao -- Tore Anderson
Bug#322620: beneath-a-steel-sky: subtitles inconsistent with spoken audio in a conversation in front of Burke's Bio Surgery
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 09:18:38 +0200 Tore Anderson wrote: > * Francesco Poli > > > Huh? > > I would say this is a bug in the game data, not in the engine. > > Sorry, I meant BASS. Ah, OK. > > > As I see it, upstream is Revolution Software and I don't count on > > seeing a new _Beneath a Steel Sky_ version out... > > The ScummVM team has for all practical purposes become the upstream > for BASS after it was made free software. That's why I defer the > decision on how to hande this issue to them, and as Ender said "it's > supposed to be this way", I will respect that. > > If you can convince him to change it, then of course that change > will show up in the Debian package. OK, Cc:ing Ender again, then. Ender, what do you think? Did you receive my detailed description of the inconsistent dialog under question? Don't you feel that this should be fixed? > > > Well, to me even writing down Swedish subtitles while I see them on > > screen is too difficult! :-( > > As I said, I can send you a game-save from which you can see > > subtitles by yourself: I had real fun in reading that conversation > > in all kind of languages! ;-) > > Feel free to send me a save-game if you want me to translate it - I > don't really have time to play all the way there myself right now. I'm attaching it, so that you (i.e. Tore), Ender and any Debian BTS visitor can see for themselves. [...] > > And so we start the "Debian BTS teach yourself Italian in 24 bugs" > > series... ;-) > > Non ho bisogno di più bugs, perché ho già imparato l'Italiano! > :-) Forse non molto bene, ma abbastanza per ordinare una birra o > quattordici... :-) [ I don't need any more bugs, since I've already learnt Italian! :-) Maybe not very well, but enough to order one beer or fourteen... :-) ] I've translated that in English for other BTS users' pleasure. But now we must stop, 'cause we are going OT... ;-) P.S.: you seem to speak Italian very well! -- :-( This Universe is buggy! Where's the Creator's BTS? ;-) .. Francesco Poli GnuPG Key ID = DD6DFCF4 Key fingerprint = C979 F34B 27CE 5CD8 DC12 31B5 78F4 279B DD6D FCF4 SKY-VM.008 Description: Binary data pgpWPh2OSg3bE.pgp Description: PGP signature
