Re: ITO packages: ntop, apt-show-source

[Ola Lundqvist]

On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 11:20:53PM +0200, Dennis Schoen wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 05:03:47PM +0200, Ola Lundqvist wrote:
> > On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 01:42:32PM +0200, Dennis Schoen wrote:
> > > Package: ntop
> > > Description: display network usage in top-like format
> > >  ntop is a Network Top program. It displays a summary of network
> > >  usage by machines on your network in a format reminiscent of the
> > >  unix top utility.
> > >  .
> > >  It can also be run in web mode, which allows the display to be
> > >  browsed with a web browser.
> > 
> > I'd like to take this one. I have been using it for a long time and
> > is quite experienced with the code.
> 
> Ok, it's yours. I hoped you would step forward as you have already
> done some work on it. :)

Ok, thanks.

> Please try to upload a package in the next days.

I'll do that, hopefully today.

Regards,

// Ola

> Ciao
>   Dennis
> -- 
> Wanting to kill yourself after loosing a game of Go is extreme, sure,
> but not unheard-of.
> Hell, it's practically a sign of progress.

-- 
 - Ola Lundqvist ---
/  [EMAIL PROTECTED] Annebergsslingan 37  \
|  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 654 65 KARLSTAD  |
|  +46 (0)54-10 14 30  +46 (0)70-332 1551   |
|  http://www.opal.dhs.org UIN/icq: 4912500 |
\  gpg/f.p.: 7090 A92B 18FE 7994 0C36  4FE4 18A1 B1CF 0FE5 3DD9 /
 ---

Re: Debian conference in the US?

[Colin Walters]

On Sun, 2003-05-18 at 22:07, Aaron M. Ucko wrote:
> [I've already asked a few relevant individuals about this, but am
> opening it up to the list at their suggestion.]
> 
> I've recently been in touch with somebody (a lawyer and professor
> concerned with government open source policy) who is interested in
> sponsoring a Debian conference here in Washington, DC, next spring, in
> conjunction with an international conference on open source in
> government.

Sounds like a good idea to me!  If we have a sponsor, it makes sense to
use the opportunity.

Re: Firebird 0.6

[Miles Bader]

Eric Dorland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> So unless you have a better reason
> then PCness, I'll use either as the mood strikes me :)

To be accurate, I don't think this is an example of PCness, but rather
of PR-speak, the same sort of thing that goes into press releases
(though I mean `public relations' when I say PR).  It's amazing how even
quite clueful people can end up producing a meaningless mush of
empty-but-safe-and-vaguely-positive-sounding adjectives when they write
a press release.

I must admit I got a bit worried when I saw the mozilla screed on
`promoting brand awareness'...

-Miles
-- 
`Cars give people wonderful freedom and increase their opportunities.
 But they also destroy the environment, to an extent so drastic that
 they kill all social life' (from _A Pattern Language_)

Re: Debian conference in the US?

[Miles Bader]

Simon Law <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>   Please don't hold the conference in the U.S.  I am a Canadian
> who has not stepped foot on American soil since your government declared
> it was at war.

You mean the iraq war?  What's the point?  How is avoiding the
U.S. going to help anything, regardless of how strongly you feel about
the U.S. governments acts or positions?

-Miles
-- 
A zen-buddhist walked into a pizza shop and
said, "Make me one with everything."

second for John's amendment

[Jochen Voss]

Hello,

I think that John's modification is a good thing.
Hereby I second the amendment quoted below.

Jochen

On Tue, May 20, 2003 at 12:19:33PM -0700, John H. Robinson, IV wrote:
> --- proposal-srivasta Fri May 16 09:42:59 2003
> +++ proposal-jaqque   Mon May 19 11:43:13 2003
> @@ -1,139 +1,139 @@
>  PROPOSAL
>  __
>  
>   Constitutional amendment: Condorcet/Clone Proof SSD  vote tallying:
>  __
>  
>  
>  Under 4.2 Procedure [for developers during a general resolution or
>  election], change item 3 to read:
>  
>  3. Votes are taken by the Project Secretary. Votes, tallies, and
> results are not revealed during the voting period; after the
> vote the Project Secretary lists all the votes cast. The voting
> period is 2 weeks, but may be varied by up to 1 week by the
> Project Leader.
>  
>  __
>  
>  Under 5.2 Appointment of project leader, change item 7 to read:
>  
>  7. The decision will be made using the method specified in section
> A.6 of the Standard Resolution Procedure.  The quorum is the
> same as for a General Resolution (s.4.2) and the default
> option is "None Of The Above".
>  
>  __
>  
>  Under 6.1 Powers [of the technical committee], change item 7 to read:
>  
>  7. Appoint the Chairman of the Technical Committee.  The Chairman
> is elected by the Committee from its members. All members of
> the committee are automatically nominated; the committee votes
> starting one week before the post will become vacant (or
> immediately, if it is already too late). The members may vote
> by public acclamation for any fellow committee member,
> including themselves; there is no default option. The vote
> finishes when all the members have voted, or when the voting
> period has ended. The result is determined using the method
> specified in section A.6 of the Standard Resolution Procedure.
>  
>  __
>  
>  Under A.2 Calling for a vote, change items 2 and 4 to read
>  
>  2. The proposer or any sponsor of a resolution may call for a vote on 
> that
> resolution and all related amendments.
>  4. The minimum discussion period is counted from the time the last
> formal amendment was accepted, or since the whole resolution
> was proposed if no amendments have been proposed and accepted.
>  
>  __
>  
>  Replace A.3 with:
>  
>A.3. Voting procedure
>  
>  1. Each resolution and its related amendments is voted on in a
> single ballot that includes an option for the original
> resolution, each amendment, and the default option (where
> applicable).
>  2. The default option must not have any supermajority requirements.
> Options which do not have an explicit supermajority requirement
> have a 1:1 majority requirement.
>  3. The votes are counted according to the the rules in A.6.  The
> default option is "Further Discussion", unless specified
> otherwise.
>  4. In cases of doubt the Project Secretary shall decide on matters
> of procedure.
>  
>  __
>  
>  Replace A.5 with:
>  
>A.5. Expiry
>  
> If a proposed resolution has not been discussed, amended, voted on or
> otherwise dealt with for 4 weeks the secretary may issue a statement
> that the issue is being withdrawn.  If none of the sponsors of any
> of the proposals object within a week, the issue is withdrawn.
>  
> The secretary may also include suggestions on how to proceed,
> if appropriate.
>  
>  __
>  
>  Replace A.6 with:
>  
> A.6 Vote Counting
>  
>   1. Each voter's ballot ranks the options being voted on.  Not all
>  options need be ranked.  Ranked options are considered
>  preferred to all unranked options.  Voters may rank options
>  equally.  Unranked options are considered to be ranked equally
>  with one another.  Details of how ballots may be filled out
>  will be included in the Call For Votes.
> - 2. If the ballot has a quorum requirement R any options other
> -than the default option which do not receive at least R votes
> -ranking that option above the default option are dropped from
> + 2. If the ballot has a quorum requirement R, and less then R votes are
> +cast, the entire vote is thrown out.  The amendment may be withd

Re: Maintaining kernel source in sarge

[Josselin Mouette]

Le dim 18/05/2003 à 16:52, Martin Schulze a écrit :
> I also wonder if there are efforts in progress to unify the kernel
> source through more than two architectures?  This would require a
> group or architecture maintainers (current kernel package mantainers)
> to work collaboratively towards this goal.

Maybe the modules situation is even worse, as rebuilding the kernel may
or may not break some of them.
Is it possible to reliably guarantee the binary-compatibility of a newer
(patched) kernel-image with modules built against the previous one ?
Using explicit dependencies for the compiler, for example.

Otherwise, maybe it would be better to include *all* extra modules we
want to build in the kernel build process, and just provide them in
separate packages, as we already do for pcmcia-modules.
This would make these modules more difficult to maintain in sid, but it
would vastly improve the maintainability of the kernel itself.
-- 
 .''`.   Josselin Mouette/\./\
: :' :   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
`. `'[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  `-  Debian GNU/Linux -- The power of freedom


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Description: PGP signature

Re: Debian conference in the US?

[Sven Luther]

On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 04:06:17PM +0900, Miles Bader wrote:
> Simon Law <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Please don't hold the conference in the U.S.  I am a Canadian
> > who has not stepped foot on American soil since your government declared
> > it was at war.
> 
> You mean the iraq war?  What's the point?  How is avoiding the
> U.S. going to help anything, regardless of how strongly you feel about
> the U.S. governments acts or positions?

I think he meant the war against terrorists, which could potentially
include anyone as ennemy.

Friendly,

Sven Luther

Re>$B9f30(B! $B?M5$(B200 $B!s(BUP$BCf!*!*(B

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Re: [OT] Storms (Re: Do not touch l10n files (was Re: DDTP issue))

[Tim Dijkstra]

On Wed, 14 May 2003 09:28:53 +0200
Martin Godisch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Wed, May 14, 2003 at 09:02:20 +0200, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña
> wrote:
> 
> > "Tormenta en un vaso de agua" in Spanish. So it seems that french
> > and spanish drink more water than tea.
> 
> "Sturm im Wasserglas" in German. ;-)

"Storm in een glas water" in Dutch.

Tim

Re: Debian conference in the US?

[Miles Bader]

Hi Greg,

Now that you've got this release out, have you given any thought to the
message I sent earlier about merging gdb server versions?

Here it is again in case you've forgotten:


Hi,

The current version of gdbserver in uClinux-dist only works on the m68k.
In my v850-specific version of uClinux-dist, I include a version of
gdbserver that works on the v850, which I created based on gdb-5.3.  I
think it should generally be much more portable than the old version, as
it's far less hacked up (the only changes I made to put it into the
uClinux-dist/user tree are to move the files around to fit the old
scheme better; I have a shell script that does that automatically).

I haven't yet sent my patches to gdb-central because I'm waiting to get
a copyright disclaimer, but perhaps you might want to include this newer
version in uClinux-dist?

I suppose it will work on other platforms too; the issues that I know
about are:

 (1) In linux-low.c, I do this to get the various address offsets
 (similar to the code in the old m68k gdbserver, which uses
 hard-wired constants):

text = ptrace (PTRACE_PEEKUSER, pid, (long)PT_TEXT_ADDR, 0);
text_len = ptrace (PTRACE_PEEKUSER, pid, (long)PT_TEXT_LEN, 0);
real_data = ptrace (PTRACE_PEEKUSER, pid, (long)PT_DATA_ADDR, 0);

 I defined PT_TEXT_ADDR, PT_TEXT_LEN, and PT_DATA_ADDR in
 include/asm-v850/ptrace.h in the kernel:

/* These are `magic' values for PTRACE_PEEKUSR that return info
   about where a process is located in memory.  */
#define PT_TEXT_ADDR(PT_SIZE + 1)
#define PT_TEXT_LEN (PT_SIZE + 2)
#define PT_DATA_ADDR(PT_SIZE + 3)

 Could you add similar to defines to the other uClinux ports, so
 that the linux-low.c code will work on them too?  BTW, notice that
 I used `PT_TEXT_LEN' instead of `PT_TEXT_END_ADDR' (which is
 what the m68k uses), as addr-len pairs generally seem cleaner to
 me than addr-endaddr pairs (makes the code slightly simpler too).

 (2) Since stuff in uClinux-dist comes `pre-configured' (i.e. doesn't
 get to run the configure script), and I of course configured it for
 the v850, the gdbserver Makefile needs to somehow select the proper
 machine-dependent files to use.  Currently the only
 machine-dependent bits seem to be these:

DEPFILES = reg-v850e.o linux-low.o linux-v850e-low.o 

 Perhaps it would be good enough to change this to something like:

DEPFILES = reg-$(CPU).o linux-low.o linux-$(CPU)-low.o 

 But I'm not sure where I can get CPU from; is there something
 handy in the uClinux-dist Makefiles that could be used?  The set
 of CPU values used in (my version of) gdbserver are:

v850e, s390, arm, x86-64, i386, mips, ppc, sh, ia64, m68k

 So it seems that the most `obvious' value should work OK Hmmm,
 perhaps I ought to change `v850e' to be `v850' for compatibility
 with the kernel, etc... sigh.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks,

-Miles

-- 
`To alcohol!  The cause of, and solution to,
 all of life's problems' --Homer J. Simpson

Bug#194280: ITP: dcraw -- This is a small utility which converts proprietary image formats used in various digital cameras into ppm

[Steve King]

Package: wnpp
Version: N/A; reported 2003-05-22
Severity: wishlist

* Package name: dcraw
  Version : 1.110
  Upstream Author : Dave Coffin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://www.shore.net/~dcoffin/powershot
* License : Unknown free (see below)
  Description : This is a small utility which converts proprietary image 
formats used in various digital cameras into ppm


Alternative URL: http://www2.primushost.com/~dcoffin/powershot/

Copyright message:
>From dcraw.c

   Raw Photo Decoder (formerly "Canon PowerShot Converter")
   Copyright 1997-2003 by Dave Coffin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

...

   This code is freely licensed for all uses, commercial and
   otherwise.

>From other components, messages similar to this:

 * Copyright (C) 1991, 1992, Thomas G. Lane.
 * Part of the Independent JPEG Group's software.
 * See the file Copyright for more details.

[Copyright file MIA]

 * Copyright (c) 1993 Brian C. Smith, The Regents of the University
 * of California
 * All rights reserved.
 * 
 * Copyright (c) 1994 Kongji Huang and Brian C. Smith.
 * Cornell University
 * All rights reserved.
 * 
 * Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this software and its
 * documentation for any purpose, without fee, and without written
agreement is
 * hereby granted, provided that the above copyright notice and the
following
 * two paragraphs appear in all copies of this software.
 * 


This is a cool utility that turns incomprehensible, proprietary
"RAW" files from digital cameras into nice ppm files. 
For my own camera, the cpu time and quality is comparable to
the utility provided by the manufacturer (canon).

In case it shows, too much, This is my first interaction
with the debian project except as a happy user.

--
Steve King

-- System Information
Debian Release: 3.0
Architecture: i386
Kernel: Linux eagle 2.4.18-xfs-evms #1 Fri Jan 10 16:29:33 GMT 2003 i686
Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C

Bug#194286: ITP: labrea -- a "sticky" honeypot and IDS

[Samuele Giovanni Tonon]

Package: wnpp
Version: unavailable; reported 2003-05-22
Severity: wishlist


* Package name: labrea
  Version : 2.5.beta1
  Upstream Author : Tom Liston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://labrea.sourceforge.net/
* License : GPL
  Description : a "sticky" honeypot and IDS

  LaBrea takes over unused IP addresses, and creates virtual servers
  that are attractive to worms, hackers, and other denizens of the
  Internet.
  The program answers connection attempts in such a way that
  the machine at the other end gets "stuck", sometimes
  for a very long time.


-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
Architecture: i386
Kernel: Linux cthugha 2.4.21-rc2 #12 Sun May 18 19:59:00 CEST 2003 i686
Locale: LANG=C, [EMAIL PROTECTED]


-- 
When all the network has eyes, even if we were to send out minds turned into
light or electrons...  
It is a time when "one" is not able to make a "solid", a complex, into 
data yet...

Error in upgrading libgd-perl?

[Neil McGovern]

Hi all,

While trying to upgrade libgd-perl I get the following error:

vivacia:/home/maulkin# apt-get install libgd-perl
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have
requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable
distribution that some required packages have not yet been created
or been moved out of Incoming.

Since you only requested a single operation it is extremely likely that
the package is simply not installable and a bug report against
that package should be filed.
The following information may help to resolve the situation:

The following packages have unmet dependencies:
  libgd-perl: Depends: libgd-gd1-perl (= 1.41-6) but 1.41-5 is to be
  installed
E: Broken packages

vivacia:/home/maulkin# apt-get install libgd-gd1-perl
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
libgd-gd1-perl is already the newest version.
0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded.


This has been like this for a week or so.
Anyone have any more info?

Cheers,
Neil
-- 
16 Channels in mode 4
I disclaim everything I can under English law.
gpg key - http://www.halon.org.uk/pubkey.txt ; the.earth.li 8DEC67C5

tagcolledit: first infancy of a GUI editor for package tags

[Enrico Zini]

Hello.

I've started working at a GUI editor for package tags.  It's called
tagcolledit and you can find it in my apt repository:

deb http://people.debian.org/~enrico/ unstable/$(ARCH)/
deb http://people.debian.org/~enrico/ unstable/all/
deb-src http://people.debian.org/~enrico/ unstable/source/

So far it has no editing functions, but it can be used to navigate the
tag database in an original, non-hierarchical way.  It can already be
useful as a way to have alternative views of the tag database, that
could help in having ideas for better tag informations, and then go and
input them at http://debian.vitavonni.de/packagebrowser/ .

I welcome feedback and suggestions, both for navigating the database and
for editing functions.  Only one problem is already known: it's quite
slow when listing large groups of items.


Ciao,

Enrico

--
GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: Debian conference in the US?

[Russell Coker]

On Thu, 22 May 2003 17:06, Miles Bader wrote:
> You mean the iraq war?  What's the point?  How is avoiding the
> U.S. going to help anything, regardless of how strongly you feel about
> the U.S. governments acts or positions?

When tourism goes down the hotel, entertainment, and airline industries 
suffer.  If enough people boycott the US because of this then it'll keep the 
American economy down.

If the US economy stays down long enough then the current government won't 
last.  Rhetoric about imaginary enemies in Iraq doesn't satisfy people who 
lose their jobs because of the economy sucking.

-- 
http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/   My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages
http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/  Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/postal/Postal SMTP/POP benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/  My home page

Re: Debian conference in the US?

[Stephen Frost]

* Simon Law ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>   Please don't hold the conference in the U.S.  I am a Canadian
> who has not stepped foot on American soil since your government declared
> it was at war.

If we have a sponsor and there are enough interested parties to warrent
it I think we should do it.  I certainly think there's enough interest
and it sounds like we have a sponsor.  Those who have concerns or
political issues need not attend but that should not stop the conference
from happening if there are enough people who are interested.

Stephen


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Re: Debian conference in the US?

[Emile van Bergen]

Hi,

On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 10:39:02PM +1000, Russell Coker wrote:

> On Thu, 22 May 2003 17:06, Miles Bader wrote:
> > You mean the iraq war?  What's the point?  How is avoiding the
> > U.S. going to help anything, regardless of how strongly you feel about
> > the U.S. governments acts or positions?
> 
> When tourism goes down the hotel, entertainment, and airline industries 
> suffer.  If enough people boycott the US because of this then it'll keep the 
> American economy down.
> 
> If the US economy stays down long enough then the current government won't 
> last.  Rhetoric about imaginary enemies in Iraq doesn't satisfy people who 
> lose their jobs because of the economy sucking.

Hm, as could be seen in Iraq, boycotts only strenghen the position of
the rogue leaders ("See? They are all against us! We need to protect
ourselves! You need a strong man to protect you!" Etc.)

Cheers,


Emile.

-- 
E-Advies - Emile van Bergen   [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
tel. +31 (0)70 3906153   http://www.e-advies.nl

Re: Firebird 0.6

[Andreas Happe]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Eric Dorland wrote:
> Could you be more specific? If there's a permission problem I'd like
> to fix it :)

I've used the root account to install some mozilla - modules into
/usr/lib/mozilla-firebird/chrome. After i changed into my normal user
account I couldn't start mozilla, I could call 'mozilla' from shell, but
it would return me back into the shell without any information.

I've tried to strace mozilla and found out that I was lacking read
access to a module file and that "crashed" mozilla.

Dunno which specific module that was (the problem was resolved to
quick to remeber), but you could just try the standard "get extensions"
plugins..

Andreas

lintian: binary-or-shlib-defines-rpath, --disable-rpath doesn't help

[Sebastian Muszynski]

Hello all!

I am getting a lintian error, binary-or-shlib-defines-rpath although i run
configure with --disable-rpath option. It is no automake problem... i've
remake all automake stuff to check this.

./configure --disable-rpath works in so far that it sets or unsets $KDE_RPATH
but -rpath appears nevertheless in the Makefile: 

$(CXXLINK) -rpath $(kde_moduledir) $(libkimagemapeditor_la_LDFLAGS) 
$(libkimagemapeditor_la_OBJECTS) $(libkimagemapeditor_la_LIBADD) $(LIBS)

Is it a libtool problem?! What can i do?

At http://cojobo.bonn.de/~muszynski/debian/ you can find sources, diff etc.

Many thanks,

Sebastian 

Re: Error in upgrading libgd-perl?

[Aaron M. Ucko]

This is a consequence of its broken build-depends (Bug #193602).

-- 
Aaron M. Ucko, KB1CJC (amu at alum.mit.edu, ucko at debian.org)
Finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] (NOT a valid e-mail address) for more info.

Re: ITP: codestriker -- A web based collaborative code review tool

[Nicolas THOMAS]

 I know have a working package (lintian clean).

Can be found here :

deb http://nthomas.free.fr/debian sid main
deb-src http://nthomas.free.fr/debian sid main

Hope this helps,

Nicolas
ps: still looking for a sponsor..

Orphaning my packages

[Stefan Schwandter]

Hello!
[Please CC me!]
I have some packages left I'd like to orphan:
fltk, fltk1.1: The Fast Light Toolkit (www.fltk.org). A C++ GUI toolkit.
spiralsynthmodular (http://www.pawfal.org/Software/SSM/) :  a modular 
software synth. Needs fltk.

aseqview: displays ALSA synthesizer events.
I'd be glad if someone could orphan the packages that nobody wants to 
take right now, because I don't have access to a debian system to do it 
myself.

Thanks,
Stefan

Re: HylaFax

[Diego Brouard]

> I have heard that Hylafax has a Windows client available. (I am not sure
> if this just gives the ability to send faxes or if it also lets you view
> received faxes though).


Yes, there's "WHFC" ( http://www.uli-eckhardt.de/whfc/download.shtml ) a 
client program for windows to send faxes through a hylafax server. My clients 
use it normally. It includes a small addressbook, it asks for the fax number, 
a cover, and you can check and use the queue.

Diego

Re: Debian conference in the US?

[Mathieu Roy]

Emile van Bergen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a tapoté :

> Hi,
> 
> On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 10:39:02PM +1000, Russell Coker wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, 22 May 2003 17:06, Miles Bader wrote:
> > > You mean the iraq war?  What's the point?  How is avoiding the
> > > U.S. going to help anything, regardless of how strongly you feel about
> > > the U.S. governments acts or positions?
> > 
> > When tourism goes down the hotel, entertainment, and airline industries 
> > suffer.  If enough people boycott the US because of this then it'll keep 
> > the 
> > American economy down.
> > 
> > If the US economy stays down long enough then the current government won't 
> > last.  Rhetoric about imaginary enemies in Iraq doesn't satisfy people who 
> > lose their jobs because of the economy sucking.
> 
> Hm, as could be seen in Iraq, boycotts only strenghen the position of
> the rogue leaders ("See? They are all against us! We need to protect
> ourselves! You need a strong man to protect you!" Etc.)

Both points of view make sense. 

Fact is selecting a location for an event which is outside USA seems a
good compromise for everybody.
People that do not want to go to USA are not forced to, others that do
not think USA should be avoided would surely agree to go elsewhere too.



-- 
Mathieu Roy
 
  Homepage:
http://yeupou.coleumes.org
  Not a native english speaker: 
http://stock.coleumes.org/doc.php?i=/misc-files/flawed-english

Re: Orphaning my packages

[Aaron M. Ucko]

Stefan Schwandter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I'd be glad if someone could orphan the packages that nobody wants to
> take right now, because I don't have access to a debian system to do
> it myself.

I'd be willing to adopt fltk1.1, and will also upload a new build of
spiralsynthmodular shortly unless somebody takes it before then.

-- 
Aaron M. Ucko, KB1CJC (amu at alum.mit.edu, ucko at debian.org)
Finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] (NOT a valid e-mail address) for more info.

Re: Debian conference in the US?

[Stephen Frost]

* Mathieu Roy ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Both points of view make sense. 
> 
> Fact is selecting a location for an event which is outside USA seems a
> good compromise for everybody.
> People that do not want to go to USA are not forced to, others that do
> not think USA should be avoided would surely agree to go elsewhere too.

As one of the 200+ developers in the USA I don't feel it should be
avoided and I feel quite out in the cold most of the time when these
conferences come around because I don't have the funds to go elsewhere.
I don't see any problem with having conferences in the USA, or other
places for that matter, provided there are enough people who will go to
warrent it and there is someone willing to sponsor it.  Lots of people
might not be willing to go to the USA for political reasons, probably
more would find it cost prohibitive.  The same is true for conferences
outside the USA, I'm sure quite a few developers find that cost
prohibitive too, and I imagine there are USA developers who dislike the
actions of other countries and would avoid conferences there too.  This
doesn't mean we shouldn't have any conferences.

Stephen


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Re: Debian conference in the US?

[Russell Coker]

On Fri, 23 May 2003 01:06, Mathieu Roy wrote:
> > > If the US economy stays down long enough then the current government
> > > won't last.  Rhetoric about imaginary enemies in Iraq doesn't satisfy
> > > people who lose their jobs because of the economy sucking.
> >
> > Hm, as could be seen in Iraq, boycotts only strenghen the position of
> > the rogue leaders ("See? They are all against us! We need to protect
> > ourselves! You need a strong man to protect you!" Etc.)
>
> Both points of view make sense.
>
> Fact is selecting a location for an event which is outside USA seems a
> good compromise for everybody.
> People that do not want to go to USA are not forced to, others that do
> not think USA should be avoided would surely agree to go elsewhere too.

I have no objections to a conference in the US.  If there are enough people 
interested in attending to make it a good conference then it should be run.  
The US has a large population, they should be able to justify a conference 
without any visitors from other countries.

I can't rule out the possibility of attending myself.

I was merely pointing out one of the reasons why many people are avoiding the 
US.

-- 
http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/   My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages
http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/  Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/postal/Postal SMTP/POP benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/  My home page

Re: Orphaning my packages

[Morgon Kanter]

This one time, at band camp, Stefan Schwandter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> fltk, fltk1.1: The Fast Light Toolkit (www.fltk.org). A C++ GUI toolkit.

I'd be interested in taking these over if no one else wants to, because 
one if my ITPs (Quat) depends on these.

Morgon
--
You said homosexuals form a small percentage of the population.  So
do Jews.  Is that a reason to deny someone equality?
 - Richard Marceau

Re: Debian conference in the US?

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Thu, 22 May 2003 22:39:02 +1000, Russell Coker
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:  

> On Thu, 22 May 2003 17:06, Miles Bader wrote:
>> You mean the iraq war?  What's the point?  How is avoiding the
>> U.S. going to help anything, regardless of how strongly you feel
>> about the U.S. governments acts or positions?

> When tourism goes down the hotel, entertainment, and airline
> industries suffer.  If enough people boycott the US because of this
> then it'll keep the American economy down.

I see. You all are personally taking action to make it harder
 for my friends and relatives to find a job, or get decent health care
 (my ex-boss has been looking for employment for 27 months now, and my
 step daughter does not have a job with benefits), and you expect me
 to have sympathy for your views?

You are taking personal actions inimical to the standard of
 living of me and my loved ones in retaliation for actions by my
 government (which I have little control over), and you expect me to
 roll over and congratulate you all on your stance? Hell, my first
 instinct is to try and see how I can retaliate.

Let me clue all of you in: anyone who takes a stand and tries
 to hurt the US economy, I see as a taking action inimical to me, and
 my loved ones, and I do *NOT* see that as friendly action. 

manoj
-- 
A countryman between two lawyers is like a fish between two cats. Ben
Franklin
Manoj Srivastava   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
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1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C

Re: Debian conference in the US?

[Michael Banck]

On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 12:17:32PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote:
> As one of the 200+ developers in the USA I don't feel it should be
> avoided and I feel quite out in the cold most of the time when these
> conferences come around because I don't have the funds to go elsewhere.
> I don't see any problem with having conferences in the USA, or other
> places for that matter, provided there are enough people who will go to
> warrent it and there is someone willing to sponsor it.  Lots of people
> might not be willing to go to the USA for political reasons, probably
> more would find it cost prohibitive.  The same is true for conferences
> outside the USA, I'm sure quite a few developers find that cost
> prohibitive too, and I imagine there are USA developers who dislike the
> actions of other countries and would avoid conferences there too.  This
> doesn't mean we shouldn't have any conferences.

exactly.

Michael

Re: Debian conference in the US?

[Joey Hess]

Stephen Frost wrote:
> I don't see any problem with having conferences in the USA, or other
> places for that matter, provided there are enough people who will go to
> warrent it and there is someone willing to sponsor it.  Lots of people
> might not be willing to go to the USA for political reasons, probably
> more would find it cost prohibitive.  The same is true for conferences
> outside the USA, I'm sure quite a few developers find that cost
> prohibitive too, and I imagine there are USA developers who dislike the
> actions of other countries and would avoid conferences there too.

It's really not any more expensive to travel to Toronto or Vancouver
than it is to travel a similar distance inside the US[1]. Once you get
there you'll find that the conference is cheaper since the Canadian
dollar is (still) weaker than the US dollar. And I know of approixmatly
zero Americans who have reason to boycott Canada. Sorry, argument does
not fly.

Anyway, I'd love to see a conference in DC, since I have family there,
and it's only 5 hours away by car. I'm looking forward to Oslo more
though, if I can find cheap plane tickets!

-- 
see shy jo

[1] If you're low on cash and it's on the right side of the continent, 
you go by car. Or greyhound!


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Re: Debian conference in the US?

[Steve Langasek]

On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 05:06:24PM +0200, Mathieu Roy wrote:
> Emile van Bergen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a tapoté :

> > On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 10:39:02PM +1000, Russell Coker wrote:
> > 
> > > On Thu, 22 May 2003 17:06, Miles Bader wrote:
> > > > You mean the iraq war?  What's the point?  How is avoiding the
> > > > U.S. going to help anything, regardless of how strongly you feel about
> > > > the U.S. governments acts or positions?
> > > 
> > > When tourism goes down the hotel, entertainment, and airline industries 
> > > suffer.  If enough people boycott the US because of this then it'll keep 
> > > the 
> > > American economy down.
> > > 
> > > If the US economy stays down long enough then the current government 
> > > won't 
> > > last.  Rhetoric about imaginary enemies in Iraq doesn't satisfy people 
> > > who 
> > > lose their jobs because of the economy sucking.
> > 
> > Hm, as could be seen in Iraq, boycotts only strenghen the position of
> > the rogue leaders ("See? They are all against us! We need to protect
> > ourselves! You need a strong man to protect you!" Etc.)

> Both points of view make sense. 

> Fact is selecting a location for an event which is outside USA seems a
> good compromise for everybody.

The sponsors aren't *offering* to sponsor a conference outside the US.
Most of the arguments against holding a conference in the US are
therefore irrelevant.

-- 
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer


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Re: Debian conference in the US?

[Gunnar Wolf]

Miles Bader dijo [Thu, May 22, 2003 at 04:06:17PM +0900]:
> Simon Law <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Please don't hold the conference in the U.S.  I am a Canadian
> > who has not stepped foot on American soil since your government declared
> > it was at war.
> 
> You mean the iraq war?  What's the point?  How is avoiding the
> U.S. going to help anything, regardless of how strongly you feel about
> the U.S. governments acts or positions?

It may be too little if only one person does it... But I know *MANY*
people who simply will avoid (to de extent possible in Mexico, at least)
buying any American goods. 

In my particular cas -and I think many other developers will agree- this
did not suddenly start with the Iraqi war - The USA have long been a
country with little or none respect for privacy and freedom, standing in
the way of technological advance. 

How will it help anything? First of all, if they notice that they are
ceasing to be the focus of technological development, they might
understand that they are doing something wrong. And even if they don't,
at least I feel better ;-)

-- 
Gunnar Wolf - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - (+52-55)5630-9700 ext. 1366
PGP key 1024D/8BB527AF 2001-10-23
Fingerprint: 0C79 D2D1 2C4E 9CE4 5973  F800 D80E F35A 8BB5 27AF

Re: Accepted ptkei 1.18.0-4 (all source)

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Wed, 21 May 2003 12:24:42 -0700, Brian Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: 

> reopen 192068 thanks

> John O'Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>> Format: 1.7 Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 21:40:18 +0100 Source: ptkei
>> Binary: ptkei Architecture: source all Version: 1.18.0-4
>> Distribution: unstable Urgency: low Maintainer: John O'Sullivan
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Changed-By: John O'Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Description: ptkei - Python TK Empire Interface Changes: ptkei
>> (1.18.0-4) unstable; urgency=low .
>> * Fixed Bug#192068

> ...another fine example of changelog abuse.

How is that changelog abuse? Methinks this is a case of hair
 trigger reopen closed bugs stupidly. Note that the changelog did not
 actually close the bug.

manoj
-- 
Smoking is, as far as I'm concerned, the entire point of being an
adult. Fran Lebowitz
Manoj Srivastava   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
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1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C

Re: Debian conference in the US?

[Stephen Frost]

* Joey Hess ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> It's really not any more expensive to travel to Toronto or Vancouver
> than it is to travel a similar distance inside the US[1]. Once you get
> there you'll find that the conference is cheaper since the Canadian
> dollar is (still) weaker than the US dollar. And I know of approixmatly
> zero Americans who have reason to boycott Canada. Sorry, argument does
> not fly.

It's alot cheaper if the conference is in DC for me since there'd be
basically no additional cost involved.  A conference in Toronto or
Vancouver would be more expensive due to travel time, hotel cost, etc.
Though I might be as willing to go to Toronto as NYC if there was
a conference there.  It seems the conferences are often in Europe though
which is definitely more expensive than pretty much anywhere on the east
coast for me.

Stephen


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Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)

[Francesco Paolo Lovergine]

On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 12:31:14PM -0700, Brian Nelson wrote:
> 
> >* Acknowledge NMU (closes: #174301, #172803, #179036, #177616)

Ugh, also this one. Do not use changelog for closing fixed bugs. 
Do it using BTS directly.




-- 
Francesco P. Lovergine

Re: Debian conference in the US?

[Jarno Elonen]

> As other people have said: I'm not going, but I don't object to a
> conference in the US per se.

Same here. Even if I had the money to attend, I wouldn't like to travel to the 
US because of the new copyright and anti-terrorist laws. Still, I think it's 
a good idea to arrange a conference for the American developers.

- Jarno

Re: Accepted ptkei 1.18.0-4 (all source)

[Brian Nelson]

Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Wed, 21 May 2003 12:24:42 -0700, Brian Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: 
>
>> reopen 192068 thanks
>
>> John O'Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>>> Format: 1.7 Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 21:40:18 +0100 Source: ptkei
>>> Binary: ptkei Architecture: source all Version: 1.18.0-4
>>> Distribution: unstable Urgency: low Maintainer: John O'Sullivan
>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Changed-By: John O'Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> Description: ptkei - Python TK Empire Interface Changes: ptkei
>>> (1.18.0-4) unstable; urgency=low .
>>> * Fixed Bug#192068
>
>> ...another fine example of changelog abuse.
>
>   How is that changelog abuse? 

Uhh, there's no description of the bug.  If you're not going to describe
any of the fixes in the changelog, why even use a changelog at all?

>  Methinks this is a case of hair trigger reopen closed bugs
>  stupidly. Note that the changelog did not actually close the bug.

Right, I did not realize that.  Nonetheless, it is still a very poor
changelog entry.

-- 
Poems... always a sign of pretentious inner turmoil.


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Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)

[Morgon Kanter]

This one time, at band camp, Francesco Paolo Lovergine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 12:31:14PM -0700, Brian Nelson wrote:
> > 
> > >* Acknowledge NMU (closes: #174301, #172803, #179036, #177616)
> 
> Ugh, also this one. Do not use changelog for closing fixed bugs. 
> Do it using BTS directly.

Debian Developers' Reference actually recommends doing that on the first 
line of the new changelog entry.

Morgon
--
You said homosexuals form a small percentage of the population.  So
do Jews.  Is that a reason to deny someone equality?
 - Richard Marceau

Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)

[Michael Banck]

On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 08:49:52PM +0200, Francesco Paolo Lovergine wrote:
> On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 12:31:14PM -0700, Brian Nelson wrote:
> > 
> > >* Acknowledge NMU (closes: #174301, #172803, #179036, #177616)
> 
> Ugh, also this one. Do not use changelog for closing fixed bugs. 
> Do it using BTS directly.

Come on. This is getting a bit over the top, IMHO.

After all, he *did* merge those changes from the NMU into his local
tree. Or even if he just pulled the lastest debian source, it would
still be a change. I think it's entirely reasonable to do this.

What is the current consensus on this?


Michael

Re: Orphaning my packages

[Aaron M. Ucko]

Morgon Kanter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> This one time, at band camp, Stefan Schwandter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > fltk, fltk1.1: The Fast Light Toolkit (www.fltk.org). A C++ GUI toolkit.
> 
> I'd be interested in taking these over if no one else wants to, because 
> one if my ITPs (Quat) depends on these.

No offense, but are you actually a DD?  I can't seem to find you in
the database, or even the new-maintainer queue.

-- 
Aaron M. Ucko, KB1CJC (amu at alum.mit.edu, ucko at debian.org)
Finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] (NOT a valid e-mail address) for more info.

Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)

[Stephen Frost]

* Francesco Paolo Lovergine ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 12:31:14PM -0700, Brian Nelson wrote:
> > 
> > >* Acknowledge NMU (closes: #174301, #172803, #179036, #177616)
> 
> Ugh, also this one. Do not use changelog for closing fixed bugs. 
> Do it using BTS directly.

He's officially closeing NMU's because he's uploading an actual
maintainer upload.  I think that's very appropriate for the changelog.

Stephen


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Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)

[Jose Carlos Garcia Sogo]

El día 22 may 2003, Francesco Paolo Lovergine escribía:
> On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 12:31:14PM -0700, Brian Nelson wrote:
> > 
> > >* Acknowledge NMU (closes: #174301, #172803, #179036, #177616)
> 
> Ugh, also this one. Do not use changelog for closing fixed bugs. 
> Do it using BTS directly.

  This use of changelog is fine, IMO.
  You make a mantainer upload using the modifications made in NMUs,
  which has yet the Closes line. But they only tag the bugs as fixed.

  I even think this is written somewore

-- 
  Jose Carlos Garcia Sogo
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)

[Andreas Barth]

* Francesco Paolo Lovergine ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030522 21:35]:
> On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 12:31:14PM -0700, Brian Nelson wrote:

> > >* Acknowledge NMU (closes: #174301, #172803, #179036, #177616)

> Ugh, also this one. Do not use changelog for closing fixed bugs. 
> Do it using BTS directly.

The developers references tells that both methods are allowed in 5.11.4
http://www.debian.de/doc/developers-reference/ch-pkgs.en.html#s-ack-nmu

I for myself prefer the changelog entry because it shows direct which
bugs are closed by the maintainer.


Cheers,
Andi
-- 
   http://home.arcor.de/andreas-barth/
   PGP 1024/89FB5CE5  DC F1 85 6D A6 45 9C 0F  3B BE F1 D0 C5 D1 D9 0C

Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 08:49:52PM +0200, Francesco Paolo Lovergine wrote:
> On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 12:31:14PM -0700, Brian Nelson wrote:
> > 
> > >* Acknowledge NMU (closes: #174301, #172803, #179036, #177616)
> 
> Ugh, also this one. Do not use changelog for closing fixed bugs. 
> Do it using BTS directly.

Uh, nope. See the developers' reference, chapter 5.11.5. The idea is: if
you're not uploading a new version, the NMU is still not 'worked away'.
By closing fixed bugs directly, one could forget to incorporate the
changes of the NMU...

-- 
Wouter Verhelst
Debian GNU/Linux -- http://www.debian.org
Nederlandstalige Linux-documentatie -- http://nl.linux.org
"An expert can usually spot the difference between a fake charge and a
full one, but there are plenty of dead experts." 
  -- National Geographic Channel, in a documentary about large African beasts.


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Re: Orphaning my packages

[Morgon Kanter]

This one time, at band camp, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Aaron M. Ucko) wrote:
> > > fltk, fltk1.1: The Fast Light Toolkit (www.fltk.org). A C++ GUI toolkit.
> > 
> > I'd be interested in taking these over if no one else wants to, because 
> > one if my ITPs (Quat) depends on these.
> 
> No offense, but are you actually a DD?  I can't seem to find you in
> the database, or even the new-maintainer queue.

None taken. And no, I am not.

Morgon
--
You said homosexuals form a small percentage of the population.  So
do Jews.  Is that a reason to deny someone equality?
 - Richard Marceau

Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)

[Josip Rodin]

On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 03:33:29PM -0400, Morgon Kanter wrote:
> > > >* Acknowledge NMU (closes: #174301, #172803, #179036, #177616)
> > 
> > Ugh, also this one. Do not use changelog for closing fixed bugs. 
> > Do it using BTS directly.
> 
> Debian Developers' Reference actually recommends doing that on the first 
> line of the new changelog entry.

No, it does not _recommend_ that, don't misrepresent it!

-- 
 2. That which causes joy or happiness.

Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)

[Morgon Kanter]

This one time, at band camp, Josip Rodin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > >* Acknowledge NMU (closes: #174301, #172803, #179036, #177616)
> > > 
> > > Ugh, also this one. Do not use changelog for closing fixed bugs. 
> > > Do it using BTS directly.
> > 
> > Debian Developers' Reference actually recommends doing that on the first 
> > line of the new changelog entry.
> 
> No, it does not _recommend_ that, don't misrepresent it!

[...]
"It is an old tradition to acknowledge bugs fixed in non-maintainer uploads 
in the first changelog entry of the proper maintainer upload, for instance, 
in a changelog entry like this:"

"old tradition" usually seems to mean "good idea" to me.

Morgon
--
You said homosexuals form a small percentage of the population.  So
do Jews.  Is that a reason to deny someone equality?
 - Richard Marceau

Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)

[Colin Watson]

On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 10:10:28PM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote:
> * Francesco Paolo Lovergine ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030522 21:35]:
> > Ugh, also this one. Do not use changelog for closing fixed bugs. 
> > Do it using BTS directly.
> 
> The developers references tells that both methods are allowed in 5.11.4
> http://www.debian.de/doc/developers-reference/ch-pkgs.en.html#s-ack-nmu
> 
> I for myself prefer the changelog entry because it shows direct which
> bugs are closed by the maintainer.

There's another interesting approach: use 'dpkg-buildpackage -v'. That way you don't even need to include another
changelog entry, but the generated .changes will include a Closes: line
for all the NMU-fixed bugs.

-- 
Colin Watson  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)

[Josip Rodin]

On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 05:27:40PM -0400, Morgon Kanter wrote:
> > > > > >* Acknowledge NMU (closes: #174301, #172803, #179036, #177616)
> > > > 
> > > > Ugh, also this one. Do not use changelog for closing fixed bugs. 
> > > > Do it using BTS directly.
> > > 
> > > Debian Developers' Reference actually recommends doing that on the first 
> > > line of the new changelog entry.
> > 
> > No, it does not _recommend_ that, don't misrepresent it!
> 
> [...]
> "It is an old tradition to acknowledge bugs fixed in non-maintainer uploads 
> in the first changelog entry of the proper maintainer upload, for instance, 
> in a changelog entry like this:"
> 
> "old tradition" usually seems to mean "good idea" to me.

For some people, rebooting machines at first sight of trouble is an old
tradition, too... >:)

-- 
 2. That which causes joy or happiness.

Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)

[Brian Nelson]

Guido Trotter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 12:31:14PM -0700, Brian Nelson wrote:
>> >  directory-administrator (1.3.5-1) unstable; urgency=low
>> >  .
>> >* New Upstream Version (closes: #176227, #188308, #90276)
>> 
>> Changelog abuse.  This is only a valid entry if all 3 of these bugs were
>> requests for a new version, which they were not.
>> 
>
> The features included in that version (and listed in upstream changelog)
> solve the problems reported in the other two report...

Then please use a changelog entry for each change, such as

  * New Upstream Version (closes: #176227)
- Fixes error after updating user entry (closes: #188308)
- Fixes segfaults on connect (closes: #90276)

If you don't do this, the original bug submitters will see a bug has
been fixed, but probably not remember what the bug was, especially if he
or she filed multiple bugs for the package.  Furthermore, it's a real
pain to have to look at the BTS, and then search through the upstream
changelog to find the corresponding fix.

This should be described in the developer's reference (as if anyone
actually follows it).

-- 
Poems... always a sign of pretentious inner turmoil.


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Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)

[Brian Nelson]

Bernd Eckenfels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 11:55:36PM +0100, Colin Watson wrote:
>> It's much more helpful to write this as:
>
> yes of course, but the question is where the line between helpfulness and
> usefulness is :)
>
> At least I think it is not a good idea to talk about "abuse" if maintainers
> save themself some work. This might have the opposite effet than desired.

Well in that case, let's just use changelog entries like

  * Closes: #1234, #2345, #3456, #4567

That will save developers some work, right?  Or, even better, let's just
drop usage of that work and time-consuming BTS altogether.

To save developers even more work, let's allow them to never test, or
even build, a package before upload.  And, let's not fix security holes
either, because that takes too much effort.

Shall I go on?

-- 
Poems... always a sign of pretentious inner turmoil.


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Re: lintian: binary-or-shlib-defines-rpath, --disable-rpath doesn't help

[Sylvain LE GALL]

On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 03:58:35PM +0200, Sebastian Muszynski wrote:
> Hello all!
> 
> I am getting a lintian error, binary-or-shlib-defines-rpath although i run
> configure with --disable-rpath option. It is no automake problem... i've
> remake all automake stuff to check this.
> 
> ./configure --disable-rpath works in so far that it sets or unsets $KDE_RPATH
> but -rpath appears nevertheless in the Makefile: 
> 
> $(CXXLINK) -rpath $(kde_moduledir) $(libkimagemapeditor_la_LDFLAGS) 
> $(libkimagemapeditor_la_OBJECTS) $(libkimagemapeditor_la_LIBADD) $(LIBS)
> 
> Is it a libtool problem?! What can i do?
> 
> At http://cojobo.bonn.de/~muszynski/debian/ you can find sources, diff etc.
> 
> 
Hello,

I have the same problem with a ocaml compiled binary and i use chrpath
to remove the rpath ( seems to work great ).

regard
Sylvain LE GALL

Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)

[Morgon Kanter]

This one time, at band camp, Josip Rodin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > No, it does not _recommend_ that, don't misrepresent it!
> > 
> > [...]
> > "It is an old tradition to acknowledge bugs fixed in non-maintainer uploads 
> > in the first changelog entry of the proper maintainer upload, for instance, 
> > in a changelog entry like this:"
> > 
> > "old tradition" usually seems to mean "good idea" to me.
> 
> For some people, rebooting machines at first sight of trouble is an old
> tradition, too... >:)

Point taken!

Morgon
--
You said homosexuals form a small percentage of the population.  So
do Jews.  Is that a reason to deny someone equality?
 - Richard Marceau

Re: Constitutional amendment: Condorcet/Clone Proof SSD vote tallying

[Jochen Voss]

Hello Raul,

On Tue, May 20, 2003 at 04:57:18PM -0400, Raul Miller wrote:
> "Hard to understand"?  We'd require a certain level of voter approval
> before we'll consider an option -- options which don't achieve that
> can't win.  How is this "hard to understand"?
The thing which is hard to understand, is the following.
Dropping the option which nobody likes can change the
winner among the "interesting" options.

This is explained in detail at

http://www.mathematik.uni-kl.de/~wwwstoch/voss/comp/quorum.html

There you will find an example, where voting in favor of an option B
will make this option loose, because of the quorum interferes.

I hope this helps,
Jochen
-- 
 Omm
  (0)-(0)
http://www.mathematik.uni-kl.de/~wwwstoch/voss/index.html


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voting system overview

[Jochen Voss]

Hello,

For those of you, who want to make a well-informed decision
in the upcoming general resolution about our voting system,
the following web page should be interesting.

http://www.mathematik.uni-kl.de/~wwwstoch/voss/comp/vote.html

There I put together pointers to all relevant information
which I did find.  Comments and suggestions for improvement are
always welcome.

I hope this helps,
Jochen
-- 
 Omm
  (0)-(0)
http://www.mathematik.uni-kl.de/~wwwstoch/voss/index.html


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Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)

[Michael Banck]

On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 03:33:05PM -0700, Brian Nelson wrote:
> Shall I go on?

No.


Michael

-- 
-!- bunny is now known as trinityBunny
 >=)
* trinityBunny doubles flips in the room, slow motion rotates around
jbailey waves h at him in fast motion and stands still.

Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)

[Gustavo Noronha Silva]

Em Thu, 22 May 2003 01:26:27 +0200, Bernd Eckenfels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
escreveu:

> On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 11:55:36PM +0100, Colin Watson wrote:
> > It's much more helpful to write this as:
> 
> yes of course, but the question is where the line between helpfulness and
> usefulness is :)
> 
> At least I think it is not a good idea to talk about "abuse" if maintainers
> save themself some work. This might have the opposite effet than desired.

That's *very* useful, too. And that would save people a lot of work when
tracking problem causes, etc. It will not kill adding a few more details
when closing a bug, and that makes the changelog much more useful.
This is the way I do:

  * New upstream release
  - it seems like the lng CC is not a problem anymore
(Closes: #182003)
  - IMAP has gone through a lot of work, so I believe this should
be fixed. Also, this version is supposed to fix the 'io blocking'
thingy. (Closes: #164101)

Damn, it evens helps the submitter to understand what problem has
been fixed when he receives the notification.

[]s!

-- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]: Gustavo Noronha 
Debian:   *  
Dúvidas sobre o Debian? Visite o Rau-Tu: http://rautu.cipsga.org.br

Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)

[Brian Nelson]

Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 10:10:28PM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote:
>> * Francesco Paolo Lovergine ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030522 21:35]:
>> > Ugh, also this one. Do not use changelog for closing fixed bugs. 
>> > Do it using BTS directly.
>> 
>> The developers references tells that both methods are allowed in 5.11.4
>> http://www.debian.de/doc/developers-reference/ch-pkgs.en.html#s-ack-nmu
>> 
>> I for myself prefer the changelog entry because it shows direct which
>> bugs are closed by the maintainer.
>
> There's another interesting approach: use 'dpkg-buildpackage -v version you uploaded>'. That way you don't even need to include another
> changelog entry, but the generated .changes will include a Closes: line
> for all the NMU-fixed bugs.

This is the best method, I think.  IIRC, bug submitters don't receive an
acknowledgment for bugs fixed in an NMU; they only receive them when
closed by the maintainer.  Consequently, they only get an acknowledgment
that says something like

  * Acknowledge NMU (closes: xxx)

which is not informative at all.  I would much rather see the changelog
entry made by the NMU-er.

-- 
Poems... always a sign of pretentious inner turmoil.


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Re: Constitutional amendment: Condorcet/Clone Proof SSD vote tallying

[Raul Miller]

> On Tue, May 20, 2003 at 04:57:18PM -0400, Raul Miller wrote:
> > "Hard to understand"?  We'd require a certain level of voter approval
> > before we'll consider an option -- options which don't achieve that
> > can't win.  How is this "hard to understand"?

On Fri, May 23, 2003 at 12:50:02AM +0200, Jochen Voss wrote:
> The thing which is hard to understand, is the following.
> Dropping the option which nobody likes can change the
> winner among the "interesting" options.
> 
> This is explained in detail at
> 
> http://www.mathematik.uni-kl.de/~wwwstoch/voss/comp/quorum.html
> 
> There you will find an example, where voting in favor of an option B
> will make this option loose, because of the quorum interferes.

I'm going to focus only on your claim that this page shows an example
of the violation of monotonicity by Manoj's proposal.

Monotonicity (http://electionmethods.org/evaluation.html#MC) requires
"With the relative order or rating of the other candidates unchanged,
voting a candidate higher should never cause the candidate to lose,
nor should voting a candidate lower ever cause the candidate to win."

But, on your page, I don't see any examples of "voting a candidate higher
with the relative order or rating of other candidates unchanged".

Instead, I see one example of an introduced vote where B, C and A
are all changed with respect to the default option.

-- 
Raul

Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)

[Adam Heath]

On Thu, 22 May 2003, Brian Nelson wrote:

> If you don't do this, the original bug submitters will see a bug has
> been fixed, but probably not remember what the bug was, especially if he
> or she filed multiple bugs for the package.  Furthermore, it's a real
> pain to have to look at the BTS, and then search through the upstream
> changelog to find the corresponding fix.

That's the wrong reason.

Consider the admin, who discovers some bug.  They look at the changelogs for
the problem package, seeing if it had a similiar bug.  Also, consider that
this system is not online, and the admin has no network connection.

Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)

[Bernd Eckenfels]

On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 08:11:23PM -0500, Adam Heath wrote:
> Consider the admin, who discovers some bug.  They look at the changelogs for
> the problem package, seeing if it had a similiar bug.  Also, consider that
> this system is not online, and the admin has no network connection.

Well, an admin who is not online but do has changelogs which are more recent
that his installed packages is for sure quite seldom. I wonder is that is a
very common reason at all.

For those admins i would suggest to mirror mozilla bugtracker in addition to
mozilla archive. :)

Greetings
Bernd
-- 
  (OO)  -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --
 ( .. )  [EMAIL PROTECTED],linux.de,debian.org} http://home.pages.de/~eckes/
  o--o *plush*  2048/93600EFD  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  +497257930613  BE5-RIPE
(OO)  When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!

Re: Orphaning my packages

[Aaron M. Ucko]

Morgon Kanter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> None taken. And no, I am not.
[a DD]

OK, then, I'm going ahead and taking fltk1.1.

-- 
Aaron M. Ucko, KB1CJC (amu at alum.mit.edu, ucko at debian.org)
Finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] (NOT a valid e-mail address) for more info.

Re: Debian conference in the US?

[Glenn McGrath]

On Thu, 22 May 2003 12:20:39 -0500
Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>   Let me clue all of you in: anyone who takes a stand and tries
>  to hurt the US economy, I see as a taking action inimical to me, and
>  my loved ones, and I do *NOT* see that as friendly action. 

What you say is just bad, bad, bad, and you should be ashamed.

In the least it implies you personally are only friendly with people
when you are taking their money. In other words, you dont have any true
friends.

On the Australia-US trade deal thats being worked on.
If it worked out to be better for Australia than for the US, would you
bear a grudge against all individual Australians ? 
If it was more benificial to the US would you be friendlier to
Australians ?

If your countrymen share that sort of attitute it explains why the USA
is in so many wars.

There is a layer of abstraction been government and people, any action
by or against your government is not necesarily an action from or against
individual US'ians.

I hope you can see the obvious flaws in your comments, and can learn
from your mistakes.




Glenn

Re: Debian conference in the US?

[Miles Bader]

Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>  And I know of approixmatly zero Americans who have reason to boycott
> Canada.

Er, well.  I doubt there's a government in existance that hasn't done
something objectionable enough to piss off a foreigner somewhere (e.g.,
recent european attempts to export their censorship laws on the net).

I seem to recall Canada doing some very moronic things with respect to free
speech in the '80s that engendered a fair amount of anger among people I knew
(Americans), though I can't recall why it was of cross-border significance

[The U.S. has been unusually moronic lately though (the basic `anti-people'
stance of Bush's minions is pretty scary).]

-Miles
-- 
Come now, if we were really planning to harm you, would we be waiting here, 
 beside the path, in the very darkest part of the forest?

Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)

[Adam Heath]

On Fri, 23 May 2003, Bernd Eckenfels wrote:

> On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 08:11:23PM -0500, Adam Heath wrote:
> > Consider the admin, who discovers some bug.  They look at the changelogs for
> > the problem package, seeing if it had a similiar bug.  Also, consider that
> > this system is not online, and the admin has no network connection.
>
> Well, an admin who is not online but do has changelogs which are more recent
> that his installed packages is for sure quite seldom. I wonder is that is a
> very common reason at all.

You misunderstand.

Admin installs from cd.  Admin runs programs.  Admin finds something he thinks
is a bug.  Admin reads changelog to see if the bug existed previously.

Re: Debian conference in the US?

[Russell Coker]

On Fri, 23 May 2003 03:20, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> You are taking personal actions inimical to the standard of
>  living of me and my loved ones in retaliation for actions by my
>  government (which I have little control over), and you expect me to
>  roll over and congratulate you all on your stance? Hell, my first
>  instinct is to try and see how I can retaliate.

Great!  Now we are making some progress.  The US (both government and people) 
does this sort of thing routinely to other countries.  Most Americans can't 
understand why it will make people outside the US unhappy.

> Let me clue all of you in: anyone who takes a stand and tries
>  to hurt the US economy, I see as a taking action inimical to me, and
>  my loved ones, and I do *NOT* see that as friendly action.

It seems that a large portion of the US population is trying to hurt the 
economy of any country that doesn't follow the US line (see France as an 
example).

What do you think of the boycots of French products?  Do you oppose them on 
principle?


PS  How exactly would you retaliate against the rest of the world?

PPS  Be grateful that you have more control over your government than I have 
over mine.  My government obeys yours.

-- 
http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/   My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages
http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/  Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/postal/Postal SMTP/POP benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/  My home page

Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)

[Bernd Eckenfels]

On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 09:51:33PM -0500, Adam Heath wrote:
> Admin installs from cd.  Admin runs programs.  Admin finds something he thinks
> is a bug.  Admin reads changelog to see if the bug existed previously.

hmm.. why would he do that? 

Greetings
Bernd
-- 
  (OO)  -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --
 ( .. )  [EMAIL PROTECTED],linux.de,debian.org} http://home.pages.de/~eckes/
  o--o *plush*  2048/93600EFD  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  +497257930613  BE5-RIPE
(OO)  When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!

Bug#194379: ITP: sctplib -- Userland implementation of the SCTP protocol (RFC 2960)

[Anibal Monsalve Salazar]

Package: wnpp
Version: unavailable; reported 2003-05-23
Severity: wishlist

* Package name: sctplib
  Version : 1.0.0-pre19-1
  Upstream Author : Thomas Dreibholz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://tdrwww.exp-math.uni-essen.de/dreibholz/rserpool/
* License : LGPL
  Description : Userland implementation of the SCTP protocol (RFC 2960)

The sctplib library is a fairly complete prototype implementation of the
Stream Control Transmission Protocol (SCTP), a message-oriented reliable
transport protocol that supports multi-homing, and multiple message streams
multiplexed within an SCTP connection (also named association). SCTP is
described in RFC 2960, RFC 3309 and RFC 3286. This implementation is the
product of a cooperation between Siemens AG (ICN), Munich, Germany and the
Computer Networking Technology Group at the IEM of the University of Essen,
Germany. See http://www.sctp.de/ for details.
 
The API of the library was modeled after section 10 of RFC 2960, and most
parameters and functions should be self-explanatory to the user familiar with
this document. In addition to these interface functions between an Upper
Layer Protocol (ULP) and an SCTP instance, the library also provides a number
of helper functions that can be used to manage callback function routines to
make them execute at a certain point of time (i.e. timer-based) or open and
bind  UDP sockets on a configurable port, which may then be used for an
asynchronous interprocess communication.


-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
Architecture: i386
Kernel: Linux caribe 2.4.20 #8 Fri Dec 6 14:19:52 EST 2002 i586
Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C

Bug#194378: ITP: rsplib -- Prototype implementation of the IETF RSerPool architecture

[Anibal Monsalve Salazar]

Package: wnpp
Version: unavailable; reported 2003-05-23
Severity: wishlist

* Package name: rsplib
  Version : 0.1.0
  Upstream Author : Thomas Dreibholz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://tdrwww.exp-math.uni-essen.de/dreibholz/rserpool/
* License : LGPL
  Description : Prototype implementation of the IETF RSerPool architecture

Rsplib is a prototype implementation of the IETF RSerPool architecture. It
provides a session layer protocol framework for the development of high
availability applications. This prototype contains an implementation of the
ASAP protocol, a nameserver and an example for a pool element and a pool
user. It currently supports Linux, FreeBSD and Darwin OS.

This implementation is the product of a cooperation between Siemens AG (ICN),
Munich, Germany and the Computer Networking Technology Group at the IEM of
the University of Essen, Germany. See our project homepage
http://tdrwww.exp-math.uni-essen.de/dreibholz/rserpool/ for details.


-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
Architecture: i386
Kernel: Linux caribe 2.4.20 #8 Fri Dec 6 14:19:52 EST 2002 i586
Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C

Bug#194377: ITP: socketapi -- Socket API library for sctplib

[Anibal Monsalve Salazar]

Package: wnpp
Version: unavailable; reported 2003-05-23
Severity: wishlist

* Package name: socketapi
  Version : 1.0.1
  Upstream Author : Thomas Dreibholz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://tdrwww.exp-math.uni-essen.de/dreibholz/rserpool/
* License : LGPL
  Description : Socket API library for sctplib

Socketapi provides a socket API  for the SCTP userland implementation sctplib,
conforming to draft-ietf-tsvwg-sctpsocket-06.txt.

This implementation is the product of a cooperation between Siemens AG (ICN),
Munich, Germany and the Computer Networking Technology Group at the IEM of
the University of Essen, Germany. See http://www.sctp.de/ for details.


-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
Architecture: i386
Kernel: Linux caribe 2.4.20 #8 Fri Dec 6 14:19:52 EST 2002 i586
Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C

Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)

[Adam Heath]

On Fri, 23 May 2003, Bernd Eckenfels wrote:

> On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 09:51:33PM -0500, Adam Heath wrote:
> > Admin installs from cd.  Admin runs programs.  Admin finds something he 
> > thinks
> > is a bug.  Admin reads changelog to see if the bug existed previously.
>
> hmm.. why would he do that?

Because I consider that standard debugging procedure.  Always see if the
symptoms you are seeing are similiar to something that has happened in the
past.

Bugs tend to cluster around small bits of code.  Ie, the vast majority of code
tends to be relatively bug free, and a small amount of code has the highest
concentration of bugs.  So looking for similiar bugs in a software program's
history can clue one in on how to fix new bugs.

Re: voting system overview

[Anthony Towns]

On Fri, May 23, 2003 at 01:00:58AM +0200, Jochen Voss wrote:
> Hello,

This is off-topic for debian-devel -- we have a -vote list for discussion
of votes, please use it. Followups to -vote.

In,

> http://www.mathematik.uni-kl.de/~wwwstoch/voss/comp/vote.html

you claim:

] Generalised Strategy-Free Criterion (GSFC):
] These do not hold.
] Example: Q=1, only vote: AD
] A is the "Ideal Democratic Winner" and the only member of the Smith
] set. It is also prefered by a majority to D. But the default option
] D wins.

] Weak Defensive Strategy Criterion (WDSC):
] These do not hold.
] If there are not enough voters, the majority has no way to prevent
] the default option from winning.

But these are simply not meaningful claims to make. The default option
is not like other options and it is not useful to apply voting criteria
to it.

Both these cases are examples of not meeting quorum -- and would be the
case whether there a per option quorum or a global quorum.

The various criteria that the election methods sites use assume that
enough people are voting to make a decision, and ignore supermajority
concerns; that the criteria are violated when you don't make that
assumption, or ignore that concern shouldn't be surprising, and isn't
particularly informative.

Cheers,
aj

-- 
Anthony Towns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
I don't speak for anyone save myself. GPG signed mail preferred.

  ``Dear Anthony Towns: [...] Congratulations -- 
you are now certified as a Red Hat Certified Engineer!''


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Description: PGP signature

Re: Debian conference in the US?

[Marc Singer]

Perhaps we can look at this a different way.  I haven't read anyone
voicing the opinion that GWB (can't say the name of the beast out
loud) is a 'good fellow'.  I'm supposing that all of us agree that
he's a snake-oil salesmen of the odious kind, interested most in
lining his pockets and the pockets of his pals at the expense of the
majority of US citizens as well as international citizens.  He is a
ignorant bully whose opinions and actions don't represent me or my
cohort.

Yet, it is reasonable to take personal representing our feelings.
There are folks who don't want to contribute an earned farthing to the
US economy.  So be it.  This doesn't mean that we should not have a
Debian conference in North America.  I'm sure there are many North
American DDs who'd like to meet more DDs in person.  Having a
conference in the US or Canada is not an endorsement of US foreign
policy.

It seems to me that the best place to have the conference in NA is
where we get support.  Should there be equal support in, for example,
Vancouver and DC, then we can weigh merits.  If we host it out of the
US, then at least we can keep our shoes on.

> What do you think of the boycots of French products?  Do you oppose
> them on principle?

I just bought some french-cut green beans. %^)

Re: Debian conference in the US?

[Marc Singer]

(Unintentionally, I first sent the reply to you directly.)

On Fri, May 23, 2003 at 02:09:24PM +1000, Russell Coker wrote:
> Incidentally "North America" != "USA".  

And your point is, what?

> A Canadian conference would be in North America and satisfy the
> objections of people who don't like the US, however it may be too
> far for some USians to travel.

There is no forseeable future where everyone is satisfied.

> > I just bought some french-cut green beans. %^)
> 
> Probably not from France.

Canada.

Re: Debian conference in the US?

[Anthony Towns]

On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 08:55:31PM -0700, Marc Singer wrote:
> Perhaps we can look at this a different way.  I haven't read anyone
> voicing the opinion that GWB (can't say the name of the beast out
> loud) is a 'good fellow'.

Probably because it's completely off topic for this mailing list. Take
it to soc.politics or somewhere already.

Cheers,
aj

-- 
Anthony Towns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
I don't speak for anyone save myself. GPG signed mail preferred.

  ``Dear Anthony Towns: [...] Congratulations -- 
you are now certified as a Red Hat Certified Engineer!''