Re: Crazy Idea: debian developer conference
On Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 10:05:52PM -0700, Joey Hess wrote: I've been thinking about this for a while, but it always seemed like a crazy idea. But it seems other people were thinking about it too, and others like the idea, so I had better post about it. I really like this idea. I had the same but I dropped it because I thought we will never be able to organize it. Hmm, perhaps we should ask Corel - that would be a cool public relations stunt. Corel brings together open source developers from all over the world. :) I'm figuring around $700 per developer, for plane fare and lodging. If 250 attend that's $175k. Plus some unkown amount to rent out a convention center. That's a whole bunch. Which companies could we ask for sponsoring? cu Torsten pgp103DRbgT5u.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Crazy Idea: debian developer conference
Joey: I've been thinking about this for a while, but it always seemed like a crazy idea. But it seems other people were thinking about it too, and others like the idea, so I had better post about it. Wouldn't it be great if all the debian developers could be flown in to a convention site, get to meet each other, really tighten up the gpg web of trust, attend talks by developers, discuss important issues in person, and so on? It would really make us more of a community. 'tis a great idea. It would bring the global Debian community closer together. The two big questions: Where? Preferably somewhere with a high density of debian developers. The California Bay Area (20 some developers with many more nearby) and the Netherlands come to mind. We'd need a map of where people live to make an informed choice. I suggest we host it in Dallas, Texas. 1. Dallas is very much a central location in the United States. 2. Dallas is the flight hub for American Airlines. 3. Dallas, Texas is not too far from Mexico as well. 4. Dallas Metroplex is a very high-tech region in areas of telecommuications and internet 5. Dallas offers excellent conference space with the InfoMart and Dallas Convention Center 6. Dallas is home to the North Texas Linux Users Group, www.ntlug.org. 7. We at Novare in Dallas host the Debian master and list servers and are Debian developers as well, so it would be a great chance for us to meet all of you 8. Last, we could call it Debian does Dallas ;) How much $$ would it take, and where's that come from? I'm figuring around $700 per developer, for plane fare and lodging. If 250 attend that's $175k. Plus some unkown amount to rent out a convention center. We always seem to have money we don't need to spend on hardware or bandwidth, but I don't think it's on this scale. Corporate donations? I don't really know. Is this idea worth pursuing? The idea is definitely worth pursuing. The costs can become significant so we want to promote low cost flights and lodging. I'm aware that there are high concentrations of developes in the San Fran/San Jose Bay area as well as in Europe. Whatever it takes I hope it comes together. Eric -- Eric Scrogerhttp://www.promosaic.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.novare.net code monkey 214.720.0700
Re: Crazy Idea: debian developer conference
Wow.. this seemed the kind of message that I usually skip... Why don't we go for a picnic? Let's go to .*World ... as leaving so far automatically makes me like an outcast.. =) But you mean getting the money to actually get all Debian together... wow.. that would be interesting...! So.. well.. I have nothing else to say... bye ! =)
Re: Crazy Idea: debian developer conference
Michael Alan Dorman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Christian Meder [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Cool idea. But would it help Debian except of being a big social developer event ? Sometimes social functions can lead to increased cooperation. Plus there's the opportunity to discuss technical issues in a perhaps more interactive medium. Given some of the recent threads, the interactive discussions might need to be conducted on canvas, in the presence of a referee, while wearing padded gloves. ;-) Cheers, Phil.
Re: Crazy Idea: debian developer conference
On Thu, Sep 16, 1999 at 09:35:50AM -0700, Jakob 'sparky' Kaivo wrote: Is this idea worth pursuing? It's a neat idea, and I'd sure like to meet my fellow Debianers, but I doubt you'll get anybody to pay for it. What about Corel? They're getting a /lot/ from Debian (basing their dist on it), and while I'm sure they're contributing back to Debian, sponsoring such an event would be a wonderful gesture on their part. If it costs quite as much as it sounds like it's going to, it would probably be unreasonable to ask any one source to sponsor the whole thing. It might be interesting if they wanted to help sponsor it---and perhaps send a couple of their linux people to the thing as well.. -- Joseph Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Debian GNU/Linux developer GnuPG: 2048g/3F9C2A43 - 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 PGP 2.6: 2048R/50BDA0ED - E8 D6 84 81 E3 A8 BB 77 8E E2 29 96 C9 44 5F BE -- !netgod:*! time flies when youre using linux !doogie:*! yeah, infinite loops in 5 seconds. !Teknix:*! has anyone re-tested that with 2.2.x ? !netgod:*! yeah, 4 seconds now pgpo6B1YzUtHO.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Crazy Idea: debian developer conference
Philip Hands [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Given some of the recent threads, the interactive discussions might need to be conducted on canvas, in the presence of a referee, while wearing padded gloves. ;-) Possibly. I would _hope_, however, that being face to face might have the opposite effect. Mike.
Re: Crazy Idea: debian developer conference
On Thu, 16 Sep 1999, Joseph Carter wrote: On Thu, Sep 16, 1999 at 09:35:50AM -0700, Jakob 'sparky' Kaivo wrote: Is this idea worth pursuing? It's a neat idea, and I'd sure like to meet my fellow Debianers, but I doubt you'll get anybody to pay for it. What about Corel? They're getting a /lot/ from Debian (basing their dist on it), and while I'm sure they're contributing back to Debian, sponsoring such an event would be a wonderful gesture on their part. If it costs quite as much as it sounds like it's going to, it would probably be unreasonable to ask any one source to sponsor the whole thing. It might be interesting if they wanted to help sponsor it---and perhaps send a couple of their linux people to the thing as well.. Yes, perhaps it would be a bit unreasonable to ask Corel to send *every* Debian developer somewhere and pay for room and board, etc., I would think that they would be willing to foot at least part of the bill. -- Jakob 'sparky' Kaivo - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.ndn.net/ As time goes on, my signature gets shorter and shorter... - me
Re: Crazy Idea: debian developer conference
Scavenging the mail folder uncovered Joseph Carter's letter:
On Thu, Sep 16, 1999 at 09:35:50AM -0700, Jakob 'sparky' Kaivo wrote:
Is this idea worth pursuing?
It's a neat idea, and I'd sure like to meet my fellow Debianers, but
I doubt you'll get anybody to pay for it.
What about Corel? They're getting a /lot/ from Debian (basing their dist
on it), and while I'm sure they're contributing back to Debian, sponsoring
such an event would be a wonderful gesture on their part.
If it costs quite as much as it sounds like it's going to, it would
probably be unreasonable to ask any one source to sponsor the whole thing.
It might be interesting if they wanted to help sponsor it---and perhaps
send a couple of their linux people to the thing as well..
Having a big convention would be really awfull, but it's difficult to
get sponsors and much more difficult to gather developers from all
over the world. What about a series of smaller conferences? We can have
Debian Europe, Debian America (North and South?), Debian Australasia, etc...
My 0.02e,
Federico
--
Federico Di Gregorio [http://www.bolinando.com/fog] {Friend of
Penguins} Debian GNU/Linux Developer Italian Press Contact
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I stick my neck out for nobody. -- Humphrey Bogart, Casablanca
Re: Crazy Idea: debian developer conference
On Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 10:05:52PM -0700, Joey Hess wrote: The two big questions: Where? Preferably somewhere with a high density of debian developers. The California Bay Area (20 some developers with many more nearby) and the Netherlands come to mind. We'd need a map of where people live to make an informed choice. How much $$ would it take, and where's that come from? I'm figuring around $700 per developer, for plane fare and lodging. If 250 attend that's $175k. Plus some unkown amount to rent out a convention center. Asking briefly at a travel agent, it's about $AUS 2000 for return air fares from Australia to either LA or .nl. That's not including any bulk, student, whatever discounts we might be able to scrounge together. That's about $US 1300, I guess. So assuming we can get free/very cheap accomodation, and find somewhere where half the developers don't have to pay anything to get to, that looks vaguely plausible. I wonder if 100 people might be a more realistic size. Splitting it on a continental basis might be interesting too, although doesn't seem like it'd be as exotic and fun... Cheers, aj -- Anthony Towns [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://azure.humbug.org.au/~aj/ I don't speak for anyone save myself. PGP encrypted mail preferred. ``The thing is: trying to be too generic is EVIL. It's stupid, it results in slower code, and it results in more bugs.'' -- Linus Torvalds pgp8MfJCjH9UY.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Crazy Idea: debian developer conference
On 16 Sep 1999, Michael Alan Dorman wrote: I would _hope_, however, that being face to face might have the opposite effect. Yes, I agree, and in all likelihood I think that's what'll happen. :) -- Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] ( http://www.fluff.org/chris )
Re: Crazy Idea: debian developer conference
On Fri, 17 Sep 1999, Federico Di Gregorio wrote: Having a big convention would be really awfull, but it's difficult to get sponsors and much more difficult to gather developers from all over the world. What about a series of smaller conferences? We can have Debian Europe, Debian America (North and South?), Debian Australasia, etc... True, but I think that sort of defeats the point. I would *like* to see people from other parts of the globe (and the other side of the pond), and localising it wouldn't do anything for that. What I propose, perhaps, is that a notice be put that that anyone *not* interested *at all* in attending a conference *wheresoever* it may be, mail in to whomever coordinates this. Then, pick a few locations, post them out, and ask people (or at least one from each region) to figure out roughly how much (if they were doing this on the cheap) it would cost to get them there, stay, and back. Perhaps it could even be nicely automated, in some way. It might give a feel for the true cost, depending on location. I think, re: sponsorship, that probably the way to do it is to ask no developer to pay more than, say, $200 or $300, and make the rest up from there. Anyone short (and there will be plenty) can take more; people not travelling far could do less. What d'ya think? -- Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] ( http://www.fluff.org/chris )
Re: Crazy Idea: debian developer conference
I love it.. Last time, I went to Paris, it cost me about $450 US for a round trip from Atlanta. I think the fares are cheaper in Winter. Regards, Vaidhy PS: It would be a good idea if we can find out if a trip to Paris and then a train or flight would be cheaper than a direct flight to nl. On Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 10:05:52PM -0700, Joey Hess wrote: How much $$ would it take, and where's that come from? I'm figuring around $700 per developer, for plane fare and lodging. If 250 attend that's $175k. Plus some unkown amount to rent out a convention center. We always seem to have money we don't need to spend on hardware or bandwidth, but I don't think it's on this scale. Corporate donations? I don't really know.
Re: Crazy Idea: debian developer conference
Where? Preferably somewhere with a high density of debian developers. The California Bay Area (20 some developers with many more nearby) and the Netherlands come to mind. We'd need a map of where people live to make an informed choice. How much $$ would it take, and where's that come from? I'm figuring around $700 per developer, for plane fare and lodging. If 250 attend that's $175k. Plus some unkown amount to rent out a convention center. Asking briefly at a travel agent, it's about $AUS 2000 for return air fares from Australia to either LA or .nl. That's not including any bulk, student, whatever discounts we might be able to scrounge together. That's about $US 1300, I guess. You can get cheaper than that. Last year I got a trip from Melb - LA - London - Melb for less than that. -- I'm in Utrecht. I'd like to meet any Linux users in the area, or any other part of the Netherlands.
Re: Crazy Idea: debian developer conference
Steve Greenland wrote: If 250 attend that's $175k. Plus some unkown amount to rent out a convention center. Something you might consider is that colleges and universities often rent out dorm rooms in the summer. It wouldn't be plush, of course, but you'd probably be able to get a decent choice of facilities, and high bandwidth net connections for free or cheap. Speaking for myself, I'd gladly stay in a dorm room if that made the event feasible, or made it possible more more people to attend. Uhm, don't forget that in .nl there is only one campus university like the ones widespread in the USA. And moreover (I currently live on that campus) there ain't that many free dorm rooms during summer (people tend to stay on campus during summer)... But of course that doesn't mean that I really really like the idea of a developers conference :) bye, -Remco
Re: Crazy Idea: debian developer conference
On Fri, 17 Sep 1999, Remco van de Meent wrote: Uhm, don't forget that in .nl there is only one campus university like the ones widespread in the USA. And moreover (I currently live on that campus) there ain't that many free dorm rooms during summer (people tend to stay on campus during summer)... For that, try the UK. There are plenty of 'em. Hm, other than that, I remember a university-affiliated conference centre sort-of thing I once stayed at in .dk... I wonder where it was. This is what comes of attending 10 years' worth of singing festivals around the world. ;-) -- Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] ( http://www.fluff.org/chris )
Re: Crazy Idea: debian developer conference
On Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 10:05:52PM -0700, Joey Hess wrote: Is this idea worth pursuing? If you're crazy enough to pursue it, I'd be crazy enough to go to it. I'm almost positive my instructors would all believe it's a very good thing and be happy to give me assignments ahead of time or whatnot to allow me to not get behind---that's my current Big Issue. Still, it seems like an awful lot of money to be spending on something like this. How long of a convention are you considering? For $700 apiece I'm guessing it probably couldn't be more than a couple of days unless we start cramming developers in rooms at about 4 to a room or so---not TOTALLY unreasonable. Of course your number was for 250 developers at $700 apiece---I know I certainly would not need $700 in order to attend something in the bay area and I'm guessing a number of people would have similar situations. It'd be kinda nifty to do it in .nl simply because the most foriegn of a country I've seen is ... Utah. Seriously, I have been into Vancouver and Victoria, BC at least. = -- Joseph Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Debian GNU/Linux developer GnuPG: 2048g/3F9C2A43 - 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 PGP 2.6: 2048R/50BDA0ED - E8 D6 84 81 E3 A8 BB 77 8E E2 29 96 C9 44 5F BE -- World Domination, of course. And scantily clad females. Who cares if its twenty below?-- Linus Torvalds pgpPT8hXt1apA.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Crazy Idea: debian developer conference
On 16-Sep-99, 00:05 (CDT), Joey Hess [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Preferably somewhere with a high density of debian developers. The California Bay Area (20 some developers with many more nearby) and the Netherlands come to mind. We'd need a map of where people live to make an informed choice. On the one hand, it's usually cheaper for someone in the US to fly to Europe than the reverse. On the other hand, internal Europe flights tend to be much more expensive than internal US flights. On the gripping hand, trains in Europe are reasonable choice. (Or at least all of the above was true a few years ago -- I haven't done much business travel the last couple of years.) I think the overall choice would be highly dependent on how many from where. I'm figuring around $700 per developer, for plane fare and lodging. That seems low, but if you've actually looked up some prices, I won't argue. If 250 attend that's $175k. Plus some unkown amount to rent out a convention center. Something you might consider is that colleges and universities often rent out dorm rooms in the summer. It wouldn't be plush, of course, but you'd probably be able to get a decent choice of facilities, and high bandwidth net connections for free or cheap. Speaking for myself, I'd gladly stay in a dorm room if that made the event feasible, or made it possible more more people to attend. Is this idea worth pursuing? It's a neat idea, and I'd sure like to meet my fellow Debianers, but I doubt you'll get anybody to pay for it. Steve -- Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Please do not CC me on mail sent to this list; I subscribe to and read every list I post to.)
Re: Crazy Idea: debian developer conference
Steve Greenland wrote: I'm figuring around $700 per developer, for plane fare and lodging. That seems low, but if you've actually looked up some prices, I won't argue. I haven't, what's your guestimate? Something you might consider is that colleges and universities often rent out dorm rooms in the summer. It wouldn't be plush, of course, but you'd probably be able to get a decent choice of facilities, and high bandwidth net connections for free or cheap. Speaking for myself, I'd gladly stay in a dorm room if that made the event feasible, or made it possible more more people to attend. Neat idea. Is this idea worth pursuing? It's a neat idea, and I'd sure like to meet my fellow Debianers, but I doubt you'll get anybody to pay for it. -- see shy jo
Re: Crazy Idea: debian developer conference
Joey Hess [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wouldn't it be great if all the debian developers could be flown in to a convention site, get to meet each other, really tighten up the gpg web of Great idea. And I will attend if my bank let me do it. Orelse I should just begin to attend some of the european conferences and meet fellow debian developers there. -- I congratulate you. Happy goldfish bowl to you, to me, to everyone, and may each of you fry in hell forever. -- Isaac Asimov, The Dead Past
Re: Crazy Idea: debian developer conference
On Wed, 15 Sep 1999, Joey Hess wrote: Wouldn't it be great if all the debian developers could be flown in to a convention site, get to meet each other, really tighten up the gpg web of trust, attend talks by developers, discuss important issues in person, and so on? It would really make us more of a community. You've been thinking about this as well? Cool. :) Where? Well, a location that'd be as cheap as possible overall, I think, considering flight fares for everyone. Problem is there ain't an `average developer' in terms of location, as far as I can see -- they're all over the place. ;-) I'd certainly rather somewhere Scandinavian, probably -- it's nice, clean, historic, etc. -- and closer to home. I'm figuring around $700 per developer, for plane fare and lodging. If 250 attend that's $175k. Plus some unkown amount to rent out a convention center. Yeah, but people won't all be coming just on their own, surely? I think it would be possible to whittle that down a little, actually: if any block bookings can be made on travel, perhaps. And also, if Debian get a little `creative' with accommodation (is there anywhere with a high enough concentration of Debianites to house 200 visiting developers? Probably not), some money could be saved there. For instance, if the Computer Lab could be persuaded, they might be able to net some cheap accommodation at Cambridge (University). Then again, I could be dreaming. We always seem to have money we don't need to spend on hardware or bandwidth, but I don't think it's on this scale. Corporate donations? I don't really know. Corporate donation is possible, perhaps, but I suspect things would get a little more complicated then -- like they'd want some advertising, or something. Hey, why not turn it into a full-blown trade fair? :) Is this idea worth pursuing? I think so, although in practice it's probably just to wait for the next Linux Expo/LinuxKongress/Linux World/whatever, and arrange a large-scale Debian meet; that way the conference hall would be basically free, and we'd get an opportunity to foist a few copies of Debian off onto some punters. -- Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] ( http://www.fluff.org/chris )
Re: Crazy Idea: debian developer conference
On Thu, 1999-09-16 00:38:35 -0500, Steve Greenland wrote: On the one hand, it's usually cheaper for someone in the US to fly to Europe than the reverse. On the other hand, internal Europe flights tend to be much more expensive than internal US flights. On the gripping hand, trains in Europe are reasonable choice. I'm a native Hungarian but I've been traveling a lot in Europe during the last year. I can tell you that under 26 international flights in Europe are 10-30% cheaper compared to the international train ticket prices. Obviously this gets reversed if you have a lot of stuff to carry as the overweight on planes is damn expensive. Fuji^ -- .+'''+. .+'''+. .+'''+. .+'''+. .+'' Kelemen Péter / \ / \ [EMAIL PROTECTED] .+' `+...+' `+...+' `+...+' `+...+'
Re: Crazy Idea: debian developer conference
Chris Rutter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Problem is there ain't an `average developer' in terms of location, as far as I can see -- they're all over the place. ;-) I'd certainly rather somewhere Scandinavian, probably -- it's nice, clean, historic, etc. -- and closer to home. I'd like to have this kind of stuff in Scandinavia. But I think it would be nice with a place where some active debian developers i settled. It would make the on-location planning more easy. I havn't seen many Scandinavian developers. But I for sure could be talked into doing some on-location research in Denmark. (But time, my friends...) -- I congratulate you. Happy goldfish bowl to you, to me, to everyone, and may each of you fry in hell forever. -- Isaac Asimov, The Dead Past
Re: Crazy Idea: debian developer conference
Wouldn't it be great if all the debian developers could be flown in to a convention site, get to meet each other, really tighten up the gpg web of trust, attend talks by developers, discuss important issues in person, and so on? It would really make us more of a community. You've been thinking about this as well? Cool. :) Problem is there ain't an `average developer' in terms of location, as far as I can see -- they're all over the place. ;-) I'd certainly rather somewhere Scandinavian, probably -- it's nice, clean, historic, etc. -- and closer to home. Could have several such meetings. I'm figuring around $700 per developer, for plane fare and lodging. If 250 attend that's $175k. Plus some unkown amount to rent out a convention center. We always seem to have money we don't need to spend on hardware or bandwidth, but I don't think it's on this scale. Corporate donations? I don't really know. Corporate donation is possible, perhaps, but I suspect things would get a little more complicated then -- like they'd want some advertising, or something. Hey, why not turn it into a full-blown trade fair? :) I don't think that advertising is a viable option. I don't think that finding $175K is going to happen either. I think that the only way it'll work is for individual developers who can afford it or get someone else to pay for them to go. So it'll be a smaller meeting of wealthier Debian developers... -- I'm in Utrecht. I'd like to meet any Linux users in the area, or any other part of the Netherlands.
Re: Crazy Idea: debian developer conference
On Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 10:05:52PM -0700, Joey Hess wrote: Is this idea worth pursuing? Cool idea. But would it help Debian except of being a big social developer event ? Apart from the organizational problems it would only make sense if there's a track of technical talks about mostly internal stuff (debhelper, wannabuild, HPML project, ports status, policy questions, etc.). I believe if well organized and highly technical it would be very useful. Greetings, Christian -- Christian Meder, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] What's the railroad to me ? I never go to see Where it ends. It fills a few hollows, And makes banks for the swallows, It sets the sand a-blowing, And the blackberries a-growing. (Henry David Thoreau)
Re: Crazy Idea: debian developer conference
On Thu, 16 Sep 1999, Steve Greenland wrote: Is this idea worth pursuing? It's a neat idea, and I'd sure like to meet my fellow Debianers, but I doubt you'll get anybody to pay for it. What about Corel? They're getting a /lot/ from Debian (basing their dist on it), and while I'm sure they're contributing back to Debian, sponsoring such an event would be a wonderful gesture on their part. -- Jakob 'sparky' Kaivo - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.ndn.net/ As time goes on, my signature gets shorter and shorter... - me
Re: Crazy Idea: debian developer conference
Christian Meder [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Cool idea. But would it help Debian except of being a big social developer event ? Sometimes social functions can lead to increased cooperation. Plus there's the opportunity to discuss technical issues in a perhaps more interactive medium. Mike.
Re: Crazy Idea: debian developer conference
I agree, Netherlands is probably best option. It has to be easier to get into than the US. While my work Visa is in process, I don't dare cross the border from Canada for fear it will influence my application negatively. On Wed, 15 Sep 1999, Joseph Carter wrote: It'd be kinda nifty to do it in .nl simply because the most foriegn of a country I've seen is ... Utah. Seriously, I have been into Vancouver and Victoria, BC at least. =
