Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
Ciao :) Alle 23:42, martedì 8 aprile 2003, Hendrik Sattler ha scritto: > > What's worse is that KDE still takes ages to start, independent on how fast > the system is. KDM starts up fast (although it is still pretty slow), too, > so somewhere must be a big problem in the startup routine. The whole > desktop creation stuff simply cannot take that long, other window managers > do that much faster, too. QT and KDE libs and all that is already loaded by > KDM. What does actually take that long? Or to be more specific: what eats > up the most time at KDE startup? On my laptop, I've installed slack 9.0 too. To start up kde 3.1 it takes 1/3 - 1/4 of the sarge's time ... it's the same system, the same kde version ... it (slack) does not has x-session-manager and ssh process (we can disable, at last ssh, in Xsession.d, especially on a laptop) ... Slack is very faster in startup and during the work , I dont' know why (gcc3.2, optimization ... ??!?) :( .. I use debian anyway ... but I'm sorry about this lacking of performance. bye :) -- mikj
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Thu, Apr 10, 2003 at 10:13:15PM +0200, Frank Van Damme wrote: > On Thursday 10 April 2003 14:34, Daniel Stone wrote: > > xfree86 (4.3.0-0ds3v2) unstable; urgency=low > > [...] > > * debian/xfree86-common.init: > > + Now automatically makes /tmp/.ICE-unix, and makes it root.root 1777. > > This increases KDE startup time dramatically. No, really. > > patch: DEcreases! :) Thankyou. :) -- Daniel Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> KDE: Konquering a desktop near you - http://www.kde.org pgpdWVWlVyng1.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Thursday 10 April 2003 14:34, Daniel Stone wrote: > xfree86 (4.3.0-0ds3v2) unstable; urgency=low > [...] > * debian/xfree86-common.init: > + Now automatically makes /tmp/.ICE-unix, and makes it root.root 1777. > This increases KDE startup time dramatically. No, really. patch: DEcreases! :) -- Frank Van Damme| "Saying 8MB of RAM doesn't do as much anymore is http://www.| like saying a gallon of water holds more than it openstandaarden.be | did in 1988."--George Adkins
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
Hello, It's getting Off Topic :) * Yven Johannes Leist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > (I really wonder why nobody else thought of getting rid, or least modifying > the horribly annoying splashscreen before...) You can do that as well with your debian packages (and probably with every other version). Put "Logo=0" into your /etc/openoffice/sofficerc. Jan
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Wednesday 09 April 2003 20:41, Gaute Hvoslef Kvalnes wrote: [...] > Sun didn't create StarOffice, they bought it from Star Division (a > German company, I think), who developed it until version 5.2. Since > then, it has really been made faster, but there's still a long way to > go. If you compare it to the upcoming MS Office 11, it doesn't look > too bad at all. I know it's slightly off-topic, but Ximian has recently done some nice work on OO too[1]. Hopefully they will be integrated into the main branch in the not too distant future. Cheers, Yven [1]: http://www.gnome.org/~michael/XimianOOo/img8.html (I really wonder why nobody else thought of getting rid, or least modifying the horribly annoying splashscreen before...) -- Yven Johannes Leist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.leist.beldesign.de
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
* Randy Kramer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> And I keep getting confused -- did Star somehow acquire the old
> Wordstar? And incorporated parts of it in Star Office?
Nope: StarOffice was created by a guy from Germany some years back.
Something like the Compaq/HP garage thingie :). He founded
StarDivision and moved to Hamburg, where most of the OOo/So
developer are still working (I don't think, that there are so
many 'originally sun' people around). In 1999 StarDivison was
bought by Sun and then they put the code under OS license.
Anyway, Most of the code is still 'made' by the old
StarDivision developer in Hamburg.
Some other notes, regarding the 'slowliness': up to version 5.2
StarOffice had a 'integrated desktop', which came with windows
manager and some other stuff ("Everything in one place"). This
confused MSO users a lot and after 5.2 most of the stuff was
removed (you can still here some users crying about that...). Just
after that and some initial cleanup and 'make it run again', the
code was released in october 2000 as Open Source.
6.0 is IMO still a 'recover version', making everythingwork
again. A developer said (in a german newsgroup), that SO still
'starts up' a lot too many and too big libraries at startup, but
that this is one place which is worked on.
And AFAI see it, the real developer, who dig deep into the code, are
still not really a lot and mostly the old people from StarDivision
times. IIRC the calc Easteregg showed three or four people, and
that's the second 'biggest' part of SO/OOo after writer.
Jan
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Thu, Apr 10, 2003 at 10:06:07PM +1000, Daniel Stone wrote: > On Thu, Apr 10, 2003 at 01:02:13PM +0200, Frank Van Damme wrote: > > I know. I run your packages! :) > > > > But Branden does the official version isn't it? > > > > Errr... who dares to send him an email? :) > > Well, Branden will be using my 4.3 debs as a base for his 4.3 debs. I'll > have a chat to him about it when I next talk to him about X stuff (we > regularly touch bases about patches, etc), but I can't imagine he'd have > any objection. > > A few people are testing -0ds3v2, BTW. I've ironed the last of the bugs > that I know about, now it's just a matter of accosting the porters, > really. xfree86 (4.3.0-0ds3v2) unstable; urgency=low [...] * debian/xfree86-common.init: + Now automatically makes /tmp/.ICE-unix, and makes it root.root 1777. This increases KDE startup time dramatically. No, really. -- Daniel Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> KDE: Konquering a desktop near you - http://www.kde.org pgpFrvkPOcYXP.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Thu, Apr 10, 2003 at 01:02:13PM +0200, Frank Van Damme wrote: > I know. I run your packages! :) > > But Branden does the official version isn't it? > > Errr... who dares to send him an email? :) Well, Branden will be using my 4.3 debs as a base for his 4.3 debs. I'll have a chat to him about it when I next talk to him about X stuff (we regularly touch bases about patches, etc), but I can't imagine he'd have any objection. A few people are testing -0ds3v2, BTW. I've ironed the last of the bugs that I know about, now it's just a matter of accosting the porters, really. :) d -- Daniel Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> KDE: Konquering a desktop near you - http://www.kde.org pgpTHshxuSx6N.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Thursday 10 April 2003 11:26, Daniel Stone wrote: > On Thu, Apr 10, 2003 at 10:56:13AM +0200, Frank Van Damme wrote: > > On Thursday 10 April 2003 07:54, Daniel Stone wrote: > > > > Do you think that /etc/init.d/xfree86-common should create this? It > > > > shouldn't be THAT difficult to have /etc/init.d/xfree86-common look > > > > for configuration files specifying which directories to create etc. > > > > > > I can't see why not, no > > > > Let's ask the maintainer? > > I maintain XFree86 4.3. :) I know. I run your packages! :) But Branden does the official version isn't it? Errr... who dares to send him an email? :) -- Frank Van Damme| "Saying 8MB of RAM doesn't do as much anymore is http://www.| like saying a gallon of water holds more than it openstandaarden.be | did in 1988."--George Adkins
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Thu, Apr 10, 2003 at 10:56:13AM +0200, Frank Van Damme wrote: > On Thursday 10 April 2003 07:54, Daniel Stone wrote: > > > Do you think that /etc/init.d/xfree86-common should create this? It > > > shouldn't be THAT difficult to have /etc/init.d/xfree86-common look for > > > configuration files specifying which directories to create etc. > > > > I can't see why not, no > > Let's ask the maintainer? I maintain XFree86 4.3. :) -- Daniel Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> KDE: Konquering a desktop near you - http://www.kde.org pgp1SV49f1zZH.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Thursday 10 April 2003 07:54, Daniel Stone wrote: > > Do you think that /etc/init.d/xfree86-common should create this? It > > shouldn't be THAT difficult to have /etc/init.d/xfree86-common look for > > configuration files specifying which directories to create etc. > > I can't see why not, no Let's ask the maintainer? -- Frank Van Damme| "Saying 8MB of RAM doesn't do as much anymore is http://www.| like saying a gallon of water holds more than it openstandaarden.be | did in 1988."--George Adkins
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Wednesday 09 April 2003 20:41, Gaute Hvoslef Kvalnes wrote: > Sun didn't create StarOffice, they bought it from Star Division (a > German company, I think), who developed it until version 5.2. Since > then, it has really been made faster, but there's still a long way to > go. If you compare it to the upcoming MS Office 11, it doesn't look > too bad at all. I know. But they owned it for years and did nothing about it. It has 1001 features no one ever uses, that's a fact :-) I haven't seen ms office 11 or even Xp yet, but comparing the footprints of eg koffice with the corresponding parts of MS office, I think koffice roughly takes about one and a half times the memory that ms office takes. Overall I find the speed of ms office pretty good. I wo't comment any further about MS office though :-) -- Frank Van Damme| "Saying 8MB of RAM doesn't do as much anymore is http://www.| like saying a gallon of water holds more than it openstandaarden.be | did in 1988."--George Adkins
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Donnerstag, 10. April 2003 08:44, Daniel Stone wrote: > On Wed, Apr 09, 2003 at 06:19:04PM +0200, Hendrik Sattler wrote: > > I read that but it does not explain why the other method is 3-4 times > > (!) slower. Especially, because the sockets in /tmp/.ICE-unix are > > owned by me! So there must be an if-then-else code somewhere that > > causes this behaviour. I'm not so familiar with sockets but isn't a > > normal user also able to create sockets like the needed ones? If yes, > > this behaviour is a bug in X. The KDE performance tips page http://dforce.sh.cvut.cz/~seli/download/tips.html says: "...Make sure the directory /tmp/.ICE-unix exists, is owned by user root and has permissions 1777..." Cheers, Kevin -- ~ Kevin Krammer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Developer at the Kmud Project http://www.kmud.de/ ~ pgpm70jfD4EUl.pgp Description: signature
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Wed, Apr 09, 2003 at 06:19:04PM +0200, Hendrik Sattler wrote: > I read that but it does not explain why the other method is 3-4 times (!) > slower. Especially, because the sockets in /tmp/.ICE-unix are owned by me! > So there must be an if-then-else code somewhere that causes this behaviour. > I'm not so familiar with sockets but isn't a normal user also able to create > sockets like the needed ones? If yes, this behaviour is a bug in X. I'm not sure, but UNIX sockets are virtually free, in terms of latency. -- Daniel Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> KDE: Konquering a desktop near you - http://www.kde.org pgpIewWsDVu8B.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Thu, Apr 10, 2003 at 10:40:40AM +1000, Russell Coker wrote: > Do you think that /etc/init.d/xfree86-common should create this? It > shouldn't > be THAT difficult to have /etc/init.d/xfree86-common look for configuration > files specifying which directories to create etc. I can't see why not, no. -- Daniel Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Developer, Trinity College, University of Melbourne pgpPQef8MklAm.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Wed, 9 Apr 2003 15:44, Daniel Stone wrote: > On Tue, Apr 08, 2003 at 10:21:43PM -0700, Terry Milnes wrote: > > Here is the scoop. I added 32 more MBs of memory for the time being until > > I can go to town and pick up a stick of SDRAM 133. Also, I get an error > > when trying to chown root.root /tmp/.ICE-unix. It says something about no > > such directory. I added the hack to the xfree86-common initscript. Could > > this be a problem? Should I add it to bootmisc.sh as stated earlier? > > TIA!! > > Well, you'll have to mkdir it, first. Do you think that /etc/init.d/xfree86-common should create this? It shouldn't be THAT difficult to have /etc/init.d/xfree86-common look for configuration files specifying which directories to create etc. -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Wednesday 09 April 2003 02:41 pm, Gaute Hvoslef Kvalnes wrote: > Sun didn't create StarOffice, they bought it from Star Division (a > German company, I think), who developed it until version 5.2. Since > then, it has really been made faster, but there's still a long way to > go. If you compare it to the upcoming MS Office 11, it doesn't look > too bad at all. And I keep getting confused -- did Star somehow acquire the old Wordstar? And incorporated parts of it in Star Office? Randy Kramer
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
Aryan Ameri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > There was a time, when Sun was known for producing fast, secure and > stable code. e.g back in mid 90s, everyone (even their competitors) > agreed that Solaris was the best *nix ever. When in 2000 they > announced their plan for staroffice/openoffice.Borg I really > expected something much better than this bloated piece of ash** > > It makes me wonder, what happened to that sun? Sun didn't create StarOffice, they bought it from Star Division (a German company, I think), who developed it until version 5.2. Since then, it has really been made faster, but there's still a long way to go. If you compare it to the upcoming MS Office 11, it doesn't look too bad at all. Regards, Gaute Hvoslef Kvalnes
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Wednesday 09 April 2003 18:19, Hendrik Sattler wrote: > I read that but it does not explain why the other method is 3-4 times (!) > slower. Especially, because the sockets in /tmp/.ICE-unix are owned by me! > So there must be an if-then-else code somewhere that causes this behaviour. > I'm not so familiar with sockets but isn't a normal user also able to > create sockets like the needed ones? If yes, this behaviour is a bug in X. Hm, I guess there must be a reason for this? -- Frank Van Damme| "Saying 8MB of RAM doesn't do as much anymore is http://www.| like saying a gallon of water holds more than it openstandaarden.be | did in 1988."--George Adkins
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Wednesday 09 April 2003 16:46, Aryan Ameri wrote: > > Yes... bad design, bloat, redundant code, all the horrors in one... > > We use it at home because of the good support for MS office formats > > though. > > Yup, actually OOo is the worst software, which I *have* to use everyday. > Only for that MS file format support thing. Ironic... > You know funny thing is, instead of tuning it to start faster, in 1.1 > beta, they have added a status bar, so that when OOo is starting, you > will know how many minutes you have, to go and get a coffee and come > back ;-) D'oh. > There was a time, when Sun was known for producing fast, secure and > stable code. e.g back in mid 90s, everyone (even their competitors) > agreed that Solaris was the best *nix ever. When in 2000 they announced > their plan for staroffice/openoffice.Borg I really expected something > much better than this bloated piece of ash** > > It makes me wonder, what happened to that sun? They're still making one of the best unices around, if it weren't for the fact that we now have Linux, and Debian, and a few other opensource unices ;) Seriously, for a desktop I don't think there is a point in choosing Solaris over Linux; for a nfs server or something that has 32 cpu's maybe you should consider Solaris :) > just my $0.02 > > -- > /* My name is Jehovah. I have a special plan to save the universe, but > because of heavenly security reasons I can't tell you what that plan > is. Your's just going to put your faith in me, because I see the > picture and you don't. You know I'm good, because I told you so. If you > don't believe me, I'll throw you on my enemies list and throw you in a > pit where Infernal Revenue Service will audit your taxes for eternity*/ > --RMS Lol... How serious is this meant? :-) -- Frank Van Damme| "Saying 8MB of RAM doesn't do as much anymore is http://www.| like saying a gallon of water holds more than it openstandaarden.be | did in 1988."--George Adkins
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Am Mittwoch, 9. April 2003 07:44 schrieb Daniel Stone: > On Tue, Apr 08, 2003 at 10:21:43PM -0700, Terry Milnes wrote: > > Here is the scoop. I added 32 more MBs of memory for the time being until > > I can go to town and pick up a stick of SDRAM 133. Also, I get an error > > when trying to chown root.root /tmp/.ICE-unix. It says something about no > > such directory. I added the hack to the xfree86-common initscript. Could > > this be a problem? Should I add it to bootmisc.sh as stated earlier? > > TIA!! > > Well, you'll have to mkdir it, first. More exactly: mkdir -p -m 1777 /tmp/.ICE-unix To not fiddle with file that migh get updated, put those commands into /etc/init.d/ICE-unix.sh and link /etc/rcS.d/S56ICE-unix.sh to that. This way, it will never get overwritten by an update. HS - -- Mein GPG-Key ist auf meiner Homepage verfügbar: http://www.hendrik-sattler.de oder über pgp.net PingoS - Linux-User helfen Schulen: http://www.pingos.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+lErNzvr6q9zCwcERAs8RAKCAa4flXMH9Z2lcEoGiyFJcjbOy9QCeMOJI g1Qc02sKya4SO9oeWHtITY8= =WWSE -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Wednesday 09 April 2003 13:03, Frank Van Damme wrote: > > It's pretty simple - there's even a HOWTO around. > Url? Could be: http://dforce.sh.cvut.cz/~seli/download/tips.html Cheers, Mika pgpvUidZtKby0.pgp Description: signature
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Am Mittwoch, 9. April 2003 03:34 schrieb Daniel Stone: > On Wed, Apr 09, 2003 at 03:11:31AM +0200, Hendrik Sattler wrote: > > I just tried the > > chown root.root /tmp/.ICE-unix > > /etc/init.d/kdm restart > > and it really kicks it. Increadible but this this reduces the KDE startup > > time to 1/3. Maybe there are other tweaks. I will go on trying, maybe > > leaving away some ssh-agent helps. > > But looking at it: this makes absolutely no sense! I am the only user of > > this system and what-the-*#~# is going on here? > > Is this a bug in X or a bug in KDE? > > > > Even if some startup script fixes this permission, it still makes no > > sense to me. > > Well, as I said, it makes ICE use a faster IPC mechanism. I read that but it does not explain why the other method is 3-4 times (!) slower. Especially, because the sockets in /tmp/.ICE-unix are owned by me! So there must be an if-then-else code somewhere that causes this behaviour. I'm not so familiar with sockets but isn't a normal user also able to create sockets like the needed ones? If yes, this behaviour is a bug in X. HS - -- Mein GPG-Key ist auf meiner Homepage verfügbar: http://www.hendrik-sattler.de oder über pgp.net PingoS - Linux-User helfen Schulen: http://www.pingos.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+lEf4zvr6q9zCwcERAoCDAJ4n9z7x5X30VQbWkAKcuCV/FaMhMgCfS6GU iT640Uczp6MSpgHq8Xx3CXY= =YWNp -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Am Mittwoch, 9. April 2003 08:11 schrieb Matt Sheffield: > That method has improved performance for me. However by default, Debian > deletes the contents of the /tmp directory on reboot. Thus, the .ICE-unix > and all of the mcop and dcop directories need to be recreated each time you > start your machine up from scratch. But once these things have been set up, > I've found that KDE will start up quite speedily. > > I don't like the slow first startup as I can't leave my system on all the > time. I'd like to disable /tmp clearing and clean things up myself. How > does one go about this? Which init scrip is it? With kernel 2.4.xx, you should probably use tmpfs for /tmp. May make it even faster but there will be surely nothing left after a reboot. For tmpfs, add the following line to /etc/fstab: none/tmp tmpfs defaults 0 0 HS - -- Mein GPG-Key ist auf meiner Homepage verfügbar: http://www.hendrik-sattler.de oder über pgp.net PingoS - Linux-User helfen Schulen: http://www.pingos.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+lEZ3zvr6q9zCwcERAkDCAKC9ZMPcmdMnTOpPLeEFW/AbsggRKACgmuc2 1XpzR+AB60aIQZ3qrGUCRsA= =FHEN -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Wednesday 09 April 2003 15:23, Frank Van Damme wrote: > On Wednesday 09 April 2003 13:26, Daniel Stone wrote: > > > OOo is also ridiculous. It should share nore with the other > > > available open source software - such as widgets. I'd be > > > delighted to save my files with those gorgeous QT dialogs instead > > > of the pathetic built-in windows ui clone they use now. I wonder > > > why Sun hasn't used Motif for the Staroffice UI actually. > > > > OOo is ridiculous in so many ways, including a 15min startup time > > on lower-end machines. It's the worst benchmark of anything you > > could possibly pick. > > Yes... bad design, bloat, redundant code, all the horrors in one... > We use it at home because of the good support for MS office formats > though. Yup, actually OOo is the worst software, which I *have* to use everyday. Only for that MS file format support thing. You know funny thing is, instead of tuning it to start faster, in 1.1 beta, they have added a status bar, so that when OOo is starting, you will know how many minutes you have, to go and get a coffee and come back ;-) There was a time, when Sun was known for producing fast, secure and stable code. e.g back in mid 90s, everyone (even their competitors) agreed that Solaris was the best *nix ever. When in 2000 they announced their plan for staroffice/openoffice.Borg I really expected something much better than this bloated piece of ash** It makes me wonder, what happened to that sun? just my $0.02 -- /* My name is Jehovah. I have a special plan to save the universe, but because of heavenly security reasons I can't tell you what that plan is. Your's just going to put your faith in me, because I see the picture and you don't. You know I'm good, because I told you so. If you don't believe me, I'll throw you on my enemies list and throw you in a pit where Infernal Revenue Service will audit your taxes for eternity*/ --RMS Aryan Ameri
Re: landscape PDF bug (was: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User)
On Wed, Apr 09, 2003 at 09:19:28PM +0800, Cameron Patrick wrote: > I've seen this problem before a few times, too. It applies to any > landscape PDF file, and affects Ghostview as well as KGhostview and the > Konqueror PDF plugin too. > > In fact I bumped into it this afternoon looking at uni course notes; > so if anyone wants a test case: > http://wwwscience.murdoch.edu.au/teach/m114/TKMEnergy.pdf > And a screenshot: > http://cp.yi.org:81/~cameron/kghostview-sideways.jpg > > (Sid, KDE 3.1.1, ghostscript 7.06) > > Before I file a bug, perhaps someone could tell me whether it should be > against gs or kghostview? AFAIK, against gs. -- Daniel Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> KDE: Konquering a desktop near you - http://www.kde.org pgpO2IOEz7Ltb.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: landscape PDF bug (was: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User)
On Wed, Apr 09, 2003 at 02:23:07PM +0200, Frank Van Damme wrote: | > > KGhostview is still buggy. The first pdf my dad tried to open with it | > > showed up sideways, off course the rest of the page in place. Grmbl... | > | > Did you report a bug? :) | | IIRC, the data was confidential. I've seen this problem before a few times, too. It applies to any landscape PDF file, and affects Ghostview as well as KGhostview and the Konqueror PDF plugin too. In fact I bumped into it this afternoon looking at uni course notes; so if anyone wants a test case: http://wwwscience.murdoch.edu.au/teach/m114/TKMEnergy.pdf And a screenshot: http://cp.yi.org:81/~cameron/kghostview-sideways.jpg (Sid, KDE 3.1.1, ghostscript 7.06) Before I file a bug, perhaps someone could tell me whether it should be against gs or kghostview? Cameron.
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Wed, Apr 09, 2003 at 02:23:07PM +0200, Frank Van Damme wrote: > On Wednesday 09 April 2003 13:26, Daniel Stone wrote: > > Well, I'm talking Australian dollars. There was a reason why I still had > > the PII when I *maintained* KDE. > > Ugh... Must be painful to compile c++ code on such a box. gcc2.95 was a lot better, but still, incredibly painful. > > OOo is ridiculous in so many ways, including a 15min startup time on > > lower-end machines. It's the worst benchmark of anything you could > > possibly pick. > > Yes... bad design, bloat, redundant code, all the horrors in one... We use it > at home because of the good support for MS office formats though. *nod*. KOffice does a pretty good job of imports these days, however. > > Did you report a bug? :) > > IIRC, the data was confidential. Oh, fair enough then. I actually haven't seen KGV screw up yet, which is a fair achievement. -- Daniel Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> KDE: Konquering a desktop near you - http://www.kde.org pgpdnMQrfPtPM.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Wed, Apr 09, 2003 at 02:21:06PM +0200, Frank Van Damme wrote: > On Wednesday 09 April 2003 13:31, Daniel Stone wrote: > > Um, I'm not a "hardware is so cheap today" guy. I've spent most of the > > thread pointing out why saying "hardware's cheap, go buy it" is a > > ridiculous assertion. > > Was still pointing at KL... Oh. Cool. > > Depends what you put there. I spent a lot of time tuning her machine to > > get it halfway to usable. > > I heard about a version of win98 "lite", that would come without IE. It would > even make a stab at stability :p Heh. IE 4.01sp2 is a little better than the rest. > > Well, you can, just try a few things: > > * .ICE-unix > > * disable klipper, kwrited and korgac > > Kde without Klipper? Hmmm... Some people who aren't used to it find it annoying, anyway. :) > > * generally disable stuff you don't use > > * schedule cron jobs for 4am > > :) Well, just common sense, right? -- Daniel Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> KDE: Konquering a desktop near you - http://www.kde.org pgpHTKv2ozObB.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Wednesday 09 April 2003 13:26, Daniel Stone wrote: > On Wed, Apr 09, 2003 at 01:03:38PM +0200, Frank Van Damme wrote: > > On Wednesday 09 April 2003 11:56, Daniel Stone wrote: > > > Maybe in, say, DDR. > > > > 256 megs ddr = 80 euro. Reason my box has 256 meg :) I'll upgrade once I > > have a game that needs more for textures. > > Well, I'm talking Australian dollars. There was a reason why I still had > the PII when I *maintained* KDE. Ugh... Must be painful to compile c++ code on such a box. > > OOo is also ridiculous. It should share nore with the other available > > open source software - such as widgets. I'd be delighted to save my files > > with those gorgeous QT dialogs instead of the pathetic built-in windows > > ui clone they use now. I wonder why Sun hasn't used Motif for the > > Staroffice UI actually. > > OOo is ridiculous in so many ways, including a 15min startup time on > lower-end machines. It's the worst benchmark of anything you could > possibly pick. Yes... bad design, bloat, redundant code, all the horrors in one... We use it at home because of the good support for MS office formats though. > > > BTW, KGhostView posed no difficulties with huge PDFs, either. Not even > > > image-laden ones, on my laptop. > > > > KGhostview is still buggy. The first pdf my dad tried to open with it > > showed up sideways, off course the rest of the page in place. Grmbl... > > Did you report a bug? :) IIRC, the data was confidential. -- Frank Van Damme| "Saying 8MB of RAM doesn't do as much anymore is http://www.| like saying a gallon of water holds more than it openstandaarden.be | did in 1988."--George Adkins
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Wednesday 09 April 2003 13:31, Daniel Stone wrote: > Um, I'm not a "hardware is so cheap today" guy. I've spent most of the > thread pointing out why saying "hardware's cheap, go buy it" is a > ridiculous assertion. Was still pointing at KL... > > Yes I am talking about EDO ram of course! ever tried putting SDram into a > > pentium 1? There are parts of the world where people earn the equivalent > > of 0.25 euros an hour. That means 2 weeks of work for my cheap 2 sticks > > of memory. > > Yeah, exactly. Or maybe you're studying and don't work. Or maybe you're > studying and work only just pays the bills. Or maybe you're unemployed. > Or maybe your area has high living costs ... there are a great deal of > reasons why telling everyone to buy better hardware is absolutely the > wrong thing to say. Yes. It's what MS has been telling us for years. > > > My sister has 32mb. Again, works, but isn't the greatest. > > > > I found 48 megs horrible under win98. > > Depends what you put there. I spent a lot of time tuning her machine to > get it halfway to usable. I heard about a version of win98 "lite", that would come without IE. It would even make a stab at stability :p > Well, you can, just try a few things: > * .ICE-unix > * disable klipper, kwrited and korgac Kde without Klipper? Hmmm... > * generally disable stuff you don't use > * schedule cron jobs for 4am :) -- Frank Van Damme| "Saying 8MB of RAM doesn't do as much anymore is http://www.| like saying a gallon of water holds more than it openstandaarden.be | did in 1988."--George Adkins
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Wed, Apr 09, 2003 at 12:15:13PM +0200, Frank Van Damme wrote: > On Wednesday 09 April 2003 09:22, Daniel Stone wrote: > > Umm, it's still about $au60-80; people often don't have that money to > > spare. My AthlonXP 2400+ is a direct upgrade from the PII 350, which I > > had for ages. > > Oh gosh, here we go again, a member of the "hardware is so cheap today" > school. Certain companies in Silicon Valley have been funding members of that > school for ages (after all it takes lots of manhours to write enough code for > an OS that takes up 100 megs). I upgraded my pentium a while ago (correction: > I replaced a faulty memory chip with a working one) from 48 to 80 megs. > Costed me 25 euro, and that was a bargain. Normally I'd buy a lot more for " > banks of 32 megs. Um, I'm not a "hardware is so cheap today" guy. I've spent most of the thread pointing out why saying "hardware's cheap, go buy it" is a ridiculous assertion. > Yes I am talking about EDO ram of course! ever tried putting SDram into a > pentium 1? There are parts of the world where people earn the equivalent of > 0.25 euros an hour. That means 2 weeks of work for my cheap 2 sticks of > memory. Yeah, exactly. Or maybe you're studying and don't work. Or maybe you're studying and work only just pays the bills. Or maybe you're unemployed. Or maybe your area has high living costs ... there are a great deal of reasons why telling everyone to buy better hardware is absolutely the wrong thing to say. > > 128mb, as I have repeatedly stated, works. I'll drag the PII back out to > > prove a point, in fact. Hell, it even works fine on my P233MMX laptop, > > complete with 48mb of RAM. Disable klipper, chown .ICE-unix, disable > > kwrited, disable kalarmd, and you've got an entirely usable system on a > > low-end machine. > > Just tried the ice-unix trick and it helps a great deal. It's nifty. :) > > My sister has 32mb. Again, works, but isn't the greatest. > > I found 48 megs horrible under win98. Depends what you put there. I spent a lot of time tuning her machine to get it halfway to usable. > > The point is that your figures of 256mb are extremely irresponsible, > > considering users respect you somewhat for your packaging, and I'd > > prefer you either checked your facts with a program you knew not to be > > incorrect, or just left it alone. It runs fine on anything from 64mb > > upwards, and even on 48mb, if you tune it a bit. > > On such a machine I never run the DE besides, only applications on top of, > say, Windowmaker. Well, you can, just try a few things: * .ICE-unix * disable klipper, kwrited and korgac * generally disable stuff you don't use * schedule cron jobs for 4am -- Daniel Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> KDE: Konquering a desktop near you - http://www.kde.org pgp7XPdpwqdZ1.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Wed, Apr 09, 2003 at 01:03:38PM +0200, Frank Van Damme wrote: > On Wednesday 09 April 2003 11:56, Daniel Stone wrote: > > Maybe in, say, DDR. > > 256 megs ddr = 80 euro. Reason my box has 256 meg :) I'll upgrade once I have > a game that needs more for textures. Well, I'm talking Australian dollars. There was a reason why I still had the PII when I *maintained* KDE. > > It's pretty simple - there's even a HOWTO around. > > Url? Google is your friend. :) > > For me, it meant Konsole with a few tabs open, a couple of Konq > > sessions, a KWord session, and Mutt having a good go at a 40,000-mail > > Maildir. > > I use kmail for 5000 mail-maildirs ;) KMail kinda sucked back then, and I now have all my mail at work, so read it with Mutt in a remote session. > > I don't see why you'd "need" OpenOffice or Mozilla. > > OOo is also ridiculous. It should share nore with the other available open > source software - such as widgets. I'd be delighted to save my files with > those gorgeous QT dialogs instead of the pathetic built-in windows ui clone > they use now. I wonder why Sun hasn't used Motif for the Staroffice UI > actually. OOo is ridiculous in so many ways, including a 15min startup time on lower-end machines. It's the worst benchmark of anything you could possibly pick. > > BTW, KGhostView posed no difficulties with huge PDFs, either. Not even > > image-laden ones, on my laptop. > > KGhostview is still buggy. The first pdf my dad tried to open with it showed > up sideways, off course the rest of the page in place. Grmbl... Did you report a bug? :) > > And, as someone pointed out, most of the RAM being "used" is actually > > just cache, so it's non-critical if it gets swapped out. > > ... and virtual memory under Linux is "pretty good". It's monitoring it that > sucks ;) *nod*. > > I agree that memory is cheap, right. My box has 512mb of 333MHz DDR, > > soon to be 1gb. Problem is that people often don't have even $au60 to > > spare, or maybe are stuck with old boxes with older, more expensive RAM, > > or whatever. I was in that situation for quite a while. > > > > Or maybe they're saving to get a whole new machine, this time with DDR. > > > > 128mb to run any OS is stupid, 256 ridiculous. If your assertions were > > true, I'd be demanding KDE go straight back to the drawing board. > > Actually I'd appreciate if someone took parts of kdebase and libs under the > magnifier glass again :) . > > But anywa, they're going in the right direction. Performance has had a lot of > attention between 2.2.2 and 3.0, and kde becomes more modular each release. And even between 3.0 and 3.1, it's had attention. -- Daniel Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> KDE: Konquering a desktop near you - http://www.kde.org pgp3CusLj3eB6.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Wednesday 09 April 2003 11:56, Daniel Stone wrote: > On Wed, Apr 09, 2003 at 11:10:05AM +0200, Karolina Lindqvist wrote: > > onsdagen den 9 april 2003 09.22 skrev Daniel Stone: > > > Not to mention 64mb. > > > > Well, where I live, 128MB appears to be the smallest size sold in common > > shops. > > Maybe in, say, DDR. 256 megs ddr = 80 euro. Reason my box has 256 meg :) I'll upgrade once I have a game that needs more for textures. > > If you know how to "tune" the system to run in 48MB, you don't need any > > recommendations. If you don't know anything, you might need > > recommendations. Linux automatically uses spare memory for disk caching, > > so being starved on RAM not only causes swapping to disk of virtual > > memory, it also reduces the disk cache which increases disk traffic. So > > RAM starvation reduces performance a lot. > > It's pretty simple - there's even a HOWTO around. Url? > > I have no clue about what you do in 128MB, but using the computer for me > > means more than just starting KDE, and checking that it works. It might > > involve using some memory hungry program like Open Office (start office), > > surfing the web (which might require netscape), and then some picture > > handling for creating web pages. Everything common task that many expect > > to be able to do. And here I have not even mentioned compiling KDE > > programs. These programs need their REM, in additional to what KDE > > already uses, adding up to the requirement. All these activities benefits > > much more from enough RAM than a fast processor. > > For me, it meant Konsole with a few tabs open, a couple of Konq > sessions, a KWord session, and Mutt having a good go at a 40,000-mail > Maildir. I use kmail for 5000 mail-maildirs ;) > I don't see why you'd "need" OpenOffice or Mozilla. OOo is also ridiculous. It should share nore with the other available open source software - such as widgets. I'd be delighted to save my files with those gorgeous QT dialogs instead of the pathetic built-in windows ui clone they use now. I wonder why Sun hasn't used Motif for the Staroffice UI actually. > BTW, KGhostView posed no difficulties with huge PDFs, either. Not even > image-laden ones, on my laptop. KGhostview is still buggy. The first pdf my dad tried to open with it showed up sideways, off course the rest of the page in place. Grmbl... > And, as someone pointed out, most of the RAM being "used" is actually > just cache, so it's non-critical if it gets swapped out. ... and virtual memory under Linux is "pretty good". It's monitoring it that sucks ;) > I agree that memory is cheap, right. My box has 512mb of 333MHz DDR, > soon to be 1gb. Problem is that people often don't have even $au60 to > spare, or maybe are stuck with old boxes with older, more expensive RAM, > or whatever. I was in that situation for quite a while. > > Or maybe they're saving to get a whole new machine, this time with DDR. > > 128mb to run any OS is stupid, 256 ridiculous. If your assertions were > true, I'd be demanding KDE go straight back to the drawing board. Actually I'd appreciate if someone took parts of kdebase and libs under the magnifier glass again :) . But anywa, they're going in the right direction. Performance has had a lot of attention between 2.2.2 and 3.0, and kde becomes more modular each release. > However, the experience of everyone shows that it's certainly *not* > true. gmemusage doth not a usage report make. -- Frank Van Damme| "Saying 8MB of RAM doesn't do as much anymore is http://www.| like saying a gallon of water holds more than it openstandaarden.be | did in 1988."--George Adkins
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Wednesday 09 April 2003 09:22, Daniel Stone wrote: > On Wed, Apr 09, 2003 at 08:50:29AM +0200, Karolina Lindqvist wrote: > > onsdagen den 9 april 2003 07.44 skrev Daniel Stone: > > > 256mb of RAM is an irresponsible figure > > > to be bandying around. > > > > Memory chips often comes in 128MB increments, don't they? > > Not to mention 64mb. > > > So the choice is between 128 or 256. > > Or 64. Or 96. > > > My recommendation is to get that 256. The > > cost is not great nowadays. 128Mb is about the cost of one night out, so > > it just means not going to that club one weekend and instead going to the > > nearest shop for some RAM, and spend the evening putting it in, breaking > > your nails and scratching your nuckles is the process. > > Umm, it's still about $au60-80; people often don't have that money to > spare. My AthlonXP 2400+ is a direct upgrade from the PII 350, which I > had for ages. Oh gosh, here we go again, a member of the "hardware is so cheap today" school. Certain companies in Silicon Valley have been funding members of that school for ages (after all it takes lots of manhours to write enough code for an OS that takes up 100 megs). I upgraded my pentium a while ago (correction: I replaced a faulty memory chip with a working one) from 48 to 80 megs. Costed me 25 euro, and that was a bargain. Normally I'd buy a lot more for " banks of 32 megs. Yes I am talking about EDO ram of course! ever tried putting SDram into a pentium 1? There are parts of the world where people earn the equivalent of 0.25 euros an hour. That means 2 weeks of work for my cheap 2 sticks of memory. > 128mb, as I have repeatedly stated, works. I'll drag the PII back out to > prove a point, in fact. Hell, it even works fine on my P233MMX laptop, > complete with 48mb of RAM. Disable klipper, chown .ICE-unix, disable > kwrited, disable kalarmd, and you've got an entirely usable system on a > low-end machine. Just tried the ice-unix trick and it helps a great deal. > > One of my friends has 64MB on her windows-98 machine. That works, but is > > not the greatest. > > My sister has 32mb. Again, works, but isn't the greatest. I found 48 megs horrible under win98. > The point is that your figures of 256mb are extremely irresponsible, > considering users respect you somewhat for your packaging, and I'd > prefer you either checked your facts with a program you knew not to be > incorrect, or just left it alone. It runs fine on anything from 64mb > upwards, and even on 48mb, if you tune it a bit. On such a machine I never run the DE besides, only applications on top of, say, Windowmaker. -- Frank Van Damme| "Saying 8MB of RAM doesn't do as much anymore is http://www.| like saying a gallon of water holds more than it openstandaarden.be | did in 1988."--George Adkins
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Wednesday 09 April 2003 07:19, Karolina Lindqvist wrote: > Which is why I say that for practical purposes, it appears that 256MB is a > reasonable amount of RAM, in my opinion. Unless you run just only kmail + > one instance of konqueror and noth more. Then 128MB might be allright. > Which does not mean that it does not work with less. But it can cause a lot > of paging and swapping and thus gives a slow system, no matter how many MHz > there is in the processor. Nowadays my pentium 133 has 80 megs ram, but I ran it with 48. It swaps, but not until the point that it is not useful anymore. I find the memory reqirements of kde also excessive, but kde still isn't Windows Xp :) > KDE 2.2 is a different animal altogether. On small machines that works much > better. I even run single KDE 3.1 applications on my 100MHz pentium > firewall machine. (kmyfirewall, and sometimes konsole. Nothing else of KDE > is installed on it. Something that can't be done with the official SID KDE) Why not? -- Frank Van Damme| "Saying 8MB of RAM doesn't do as much anymore is http://www.| like saying a gallon of water holds more than it openstandaarden.be | did in 1988."--George Adkins
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Wed, Apr 09, 2003 at 11:10:05AM +0200, Karolina Lindqvist wrote: > onsdagen den 9 april 2003 09.22 skrev Daniel Stone: > > Not to mention 64mb. > > Well, where I live, 128MB appears to be the smallest size sold in common > shops. Maybe in, say, DDR. > > The point is that your figures of 256mb are extremely irresponsible, > > considering users respect you somewhat for your packaging, and I'd > > prefer you either checked your facts with a program you knew not to be > > incorrect, or just left it alone. It runs fine on anything from 64mb > > upwards, and even on 48mb, if you tune it a bit. > > If you know how to "tune" the system to run in 48MB, you don't need any > recommendations. If you don't know anything, you might need recommendations. > Linux automatically uses spare memory for disk caching, so being starved on > RAM not only causes swapping to disk of virtual memory, it also reduces the > disk cache which increases disk traffic. So RAM starvation reduces > performance a lot. It's pretty simple - there's even a HOWTO around. > I have no clue about what you do in 128MB, but using the computer for me > means > more than just starting KDE, and checking that it works. It might involve > using some memory hungry program like Open Office (start office), surfing the > web (which might require netscape), and then some picture handling for > creating web pages. Everything common task that many expect to be able to do. > And here I have not even mentioned compiling KDE programs. These programs > need their REM, in additional to what KDE already uses, adding up to the > requirement. All these activities benefits much more from enough RAM than a > fast processor. For me, it meant Konsole with a few tabs open, a couple of Konq sessions, a KWord session, and Mutt having a good go at a 40,000-mail Maildir. I don't see why you'd "need" OpenOffice or Mozilla. BTW, KGhostView posed no difficulties with huge PDFs, either. Not even image-laden ones, on my laptop. And, as someone pointed out, most of the RAM being "used" is actually just cache, so it's non-critical if it gets swapped out. > I might consider 192MB enough, but as it is hard to get 64MB memory chips, > there are often very few slots to put the memory in, and memory is so cheap, > then better go with 256MB from the beginning. Or to upgrade with 128MB from > whatever is there in the computer already. 64mb is plenty, IME. And the "tuning" amounts to little other than disabling what you don't need - nothing perplexing. I agree that memory is cheap, right. My box has 512mb of 333MHz DDR, soon to be 1gb. Problem is that people often don't have even $au60 to spare, or maybe are stuck with old boxes with older, more expensive RAM, or whatever. I was in that situation for quite a while. Or maybe they're saving to get a whole new machine, this time with DDR. 128mb to run any OS is stupid, 256 ridiculous. If your assertions were true, I'd be demanding KDE go straight back to the drawing board. However, the experience of everyone shows that it's certainly *not* true. gmemusage doth not a usage report make. -- Daniel Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> KDE: Konquering a desktop near you - http://www.kde.org pgpc6YBZYfr9k.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
onsdagen den 9 april 2003 09.22 skrev Daniel Stone: > Not to mention 64mb. Well, where I live, 128MB appears to be the smallest size sold in common shops. > The point is that your figures of 256mb are extremely irresponsible, > considering users respect you somewhat for your packaging, and I'd > prefer you either checked your facts with a program you knew not to be > incorrect, or just left it alone. It runs fine on anything from 64mb > upwards, and even on 48mb, if you tune it a bit. If you know how to "tune" the system to run in 48MB, you don't need any recommendations. If you don't know anything, you might need recommendations. Linux automatically uses spare memory for disk caching, so being starved on RAM not only causes swapping to disk of virtual memory, it also reduces the disk cache which increases disk traffic. So RAM starvation reduces performance a lot. I have no clue about what you do in 128MB, but using the computer for me means more than just starting KDE, and checking that it works. It might involve using some memory hungry program like Open Office (start office), surfing the web (which might require netscape), and then some picture handling for creating web pages. Everything common task that many expect to be able to do. And here I have not even mentioned compiling KDE programs. These programs need their REM, in additional to what KDE already uses, adding up to the requirement. All these activities benefits much more from enough RAM than a fast processor. I might consider 192MB enough, but as it is hard to get 64MB memory chips, there are often very few slots to put the memory in, and memory is so cheap, then better go with 256MB from the beginning. Or to upgrade with 128MB from whatever is there in the computer already. Karolina
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Daniel Stone wrote: |> I have edited /etc/init.d/bootmisc.sh I haven't rebooted yet, so I |> don't know if it works. | | Probably, but you're not getting rid of any stale files inside of | .ICE-unix. :) True. I could discard that and instead do the following in /etc/init.d/xfree86-common case "$1" in ~ start) ~set_up_socket_dir ~SOCKET_DIR=/tmp/.ICE-unix # Added ~set_up_socket_dir # Added ~ ;; That would create the .ICE-unix dir just like the .X11-unix dir... Regards, Søren. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE+k9LCcbQPnYLQykcRAqXpAJ42QRp90T2ipzaZd1gSBA3sUl3IwQCeNg/Y QM9CEYJuKXl/PhDlyW0DUvs= =TGPH -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Wed, Apr 09, 2003 at 09:09:54AM +0200, S?ren Friis-Nielsen wrote:
> I have edited /etc/init.d/bootmisc.sh
> About 40 lines down I added a line:
>
> ( cd /tmp && \
> ~ find . -xdev \
> ~ $TEXPR \
> ~ ! -name . \
> ~ ! \( -name lost+found -uid 0 \) \
> ~ ! \( -name quota.user -uid 0 \) \
> ~ ! \( -name quota.group -uid 0 \) \
> ~ ! \( -name .ICE-unix -uid 0 \) \ # This is the new line
> ~ ! \( -name .journal -uid 0 \) \
> ~-depth -exec rm -rf -- {} \; )
> rm -f /tmp/.X*-lock
>
> I haven't rebooted yet, so I don't know if it works.
Probably, but you're not getting rid of any stale files inside of
.ICE-unix. :)
--
Daniel Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
KDE: Konquering a desktop near you - http://www.kde.org
pgpBD4XbP95Gb.pgp
Description: PGP signature
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Wed, Apr 09, 2003 at 08:22:51AM +0200, Karolina Lindqvist wrote: > The whole discussion was how much RAM is needed, and in my opinion, 128MB is > too little. It works, but causes a lot of swapping with normal things like > web browsing etc. The best and cheapest speed up for a 128MB system is to get > more ram. I am using Debian SID with KDE3.1 on a Sony Vaio Laptop with a PIII-650 MHz and 128 MB RAM. My main applications are Konqueror, Konsole and XEmacs and sometimes I also run mozilla and the system runs really fine. I doubt that my system is swapping a lot. I am pretty sure, most of the huge amount of memeory that is used by XFree86 and kdeinit is in reality cache. Don't trust top. Take care, Michael
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Wed, Apr 09, 2003 at 08:50:29AM +0200, Karolina Lindqvist wrote: > onsdagen den 9 april 2003 07.44 skrev Daniel Stone: > > 256mb of RAM is an irresponsible figure > > to be bandying around. > > Memory chips often comes in 128MB increments, don't they? Not to mention 64mb. > So the choice is between 128 or 256. Or 64. Or 96. > My recommendation is to get that 256. The > cost is not great nowadays. 128Mb is about the cost of one night out, so it > just means not going to that club one weekend and instead going to the > nearest shop for some RAM, and spend the evening putting it in, breaking your > nails and scratching your nuckles is the process. Umm, it's still about $au60-80; people often don't have that money to spare. My AthlonXP 2400+ is a direct upgrade from the PII 350, which I had for ages. 128mb, as I have repeatedly stated, works. I'll drag the PII back out to prove a point, in fact. Hell, it even works fine on my P233MMX laptop, complete with 48mb of RAM. Disable klipper, chown .ICE-unix, disable kwrited, disable kalarmd, and you've got an entirely usable system on a low-end machine. > One of my friends has 64MB on her windows-98 machine. That works, but is not > the greatest. My sister has 32mb. Again, works, but isn't the greatest. The point is that your figures of 256mb are extremely irresponsible, considering users respect you somewhat for your packaging, and I'd prefer you either checked your facts with a program you knew not to be incorrect, or just left it alone. It runs fine on anything from 64mb upwards, and even on 48mb, if you tune it a bit. -- Daniel Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> KDE: Konquering a desktop near you - http://www.kde.org pgpU6HsK1Is1f.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Wed, Apr 09, 2003 at 08:34:43AM +0200, Karolina Lindqvist wrote: > That might be. Which program is a good presentation tool? Some that > graphically shows me what all the RAM is used for. > I use it to get an approximate picture of what is going on. The individual > numbers are not important, but rather what is going on in general. vmstat is useful, if global. Used in conjunction with top you have all the information you need. > I started to use gmemusage when my system started trashing, and I just didn't > know what caused it. gmemusage shows me immediately which application is > trying to grab a lot of RAM. I can also see if it is something I intended, or > if it is something unexpected, or created by some crazy web page. I find that > some applications use a lot of RAM, and maybe avoid them for certain common > tasks. Well, it's more that they just allocate a lot of pixmaps. -- Daniel Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> KDE: Konquering a desktop near you - http://www.kde.org pgprzU4mv2TSh.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Wed, Apr 09, 2003 at 02:11:27AM -0400, Matt Sheffield wrote: > That method has improved performance for me. However by default, Debian > deletes the contents of the /tmp directory on reboot. Thus, the .ICE-unix and > all of the mcop and dcop directories need to be recreated each time you start > your machine up from scratch. But once these things have been set up, I've > found that KDE will start up quite speedily. > > I don't like the slow first startup as I can't leave my system on all the > time. I'd like to disable /tmp clearing and clean things up myself. How does > one go about this? Which init scrip is it? Well, I just edited /etc/init.d/bootmisc.sh and added the following lines, after it clears /tmp: mkdir /tmp/.ICE-unix chmod 777 /tmp/.ICE-unix chown root.root /tmp/.ICE-unix (note: 777 probably isn't the correct permissions, you may want sticky as well, but I'm the only one using this system, sooo ...) -- Daniel Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> KDE: Konquering a desktop near you - http://www.kde.org pgpfYTLo1jZmY.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Matt Sheffield wrote:
| That method has improved performance for me. However by default, Debian
| deletes the contents of the /tmp directory on reboot. Thus, the
.ICE-unix and
| all of the mcop and dcop directories need to be recreated each time
you start
| your machine up from scratch. But once these things have been set up,
I've
| found that KDE will start up quite speedily.
|
| I don't like the slow first startup as I can't leave my system on all the
| time. I'd like to disable /tmp clearing and clean things up myself.
How does
| one go about this? Which init scrip is it?
I have edited /etc/init.d/bootmisc.sh
About 40 lines down I added a line:
( cd /tmp && \
~ find . -xdev \
~ $TEXPR \
~ ! -name . \
~ ! \( -name lost+found -uid 0 \) \
~ ! \( -name quota.user -uid 0 \) \
~ ! \( -name quota.group -uid 0 \) \
~ ! \( -name .ICE-unix -uid 0 \) \ # This is the new line
~ ! \( -name .journal -uid 0 \) \
~-depth -exec rm -rf -- {} \; )
rm -f /tmp/.X*-lock
I haven't rebooted yet, so I don't know if it works.
Regards,
Søren.
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Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Wed, Apr 09, 2003 at 08:22:51AM +0200, Karolina Lindqvist wrote: > The normal web browsers appears to be pretty bad, when it comes to memory. > Just starting netscape/mozilla, will eat 75MB of RAM. Each instance of > konqueror takes around 10MB extra. They also causes X to allocate more > memory, which it does not give back. So it might be that X has memory leaks, > after all. If you say "here, allocate memory for this pixmap", and then never tell it to free it, it's hardly X's fault, is it? Mozilla is notorious for leaking horribly. -- Daniel Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> KDE: Konquering a desktop near you - http://www.kde.org pgp5JtjFqgFQh.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Wed, 9 Apr 2003 04:11 pm, Matt Sheffield wrote: > That method has improved performance for me. However by default, Debian > deletes the contents of the /tmp directory on reboot. Thus, the .ICE-unix > ... > time. I'd like to disable /tmp clearing and clean things up myself. How > does one go about this? Which init scrip is it? /etc/init.d/bootmisc.sh I'd be interested to know if there are any unexpectd side-affects by doing this... maybe a selective clearing of junk but leave the X/KDE stuff ? --markc
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
onsdagen den 9 april 2003 07.44 skrev Daniel Stone: > 256mb of RAM is an irresponsible figure > to be bandying around. Memory chips often comes in 128MB increments, don't they? So the choice is between 128 or 256. My recommendation is to get that 256. The cost is not great nowadays. 128Mb is about the cost of one night out, so it just means not going to that club one weekend and instead going to the nearest shop for some RAM, and spend the evening putting it in, breaking your nails and scratching your nuckles is the process. One of my friends has 64MB on her windows-98 machine. That works, but is not the greatest. Karolina
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
onsdagen den 9 april 2003 00.25 skrev Andreas Pakulat: > What are you all doing? kdeinit has 58Megs here, running. And I don't > think that gmemusage is a good presentation tool, it shows me that: > xmms(178XXXK) + galeon-bin(218232K) + python2.1(144408K) = 540 Megs. > Which is what I got totally (250 Megs RAM, 290 Megs Swap)! That might be. Which program is a good presentation tool? Some that graphically shows me what all the RAM is used for. I use it to get an approximate picture of what is going on. The individual numbers are not important, but rather what is going on in general. I started to use gmemusage when my system started trashing, and I just didn't know what caused it. gmemusage shows me immediately which application is trying to grab a lot of RAM. I can also see if it is something I intended, or if it is something unexpected, or created by some crazy web page. I find that some applications use a lot of RAM, and maybe avoid them for certain common tasks.
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Wednesday 09 April 2003 03:34, Daniel Stone wrote: > > I just tried the > > chown root.root /tmp/.ICE-unix > > /etc/init.d/kdm restart > > and it really kicks it. Increadible but this this reduces the KDE startup > > time to 1/3. Maybe there are other tweaks. I will go on trying, maybe > > Even if some startup script fixes this permission, it still makes no > > sense to me. > > Well, as I said, it makes ICE use a faster IPC mechanism. I have done this on my system now and for the record, my system does not seem any faster at all. A couple of things appears to a bit faster, but other things seem to actually be slower after this. I have added it to a S25 startup script I have written. Anders -- This email was generated using KMail from KDE 3.1 on Debian GNU/Linux
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
onsdagen den 9 april 2003 00.32 skrev kosh: > X memory usage is evil black magic to figure out. > It also includes AGP mapped memory, pixmaps and stuff that programs have > open get charged to X and damned if I know how much other stuff it has. At > one point I had X showing it was using 1G of ram on a system with 256MB > with no swap usage at all. The card had 64MB and I had left the bios at > default for AGP size. I have 4MB on my graphics card, which means that if X is charged with that, it won't matter very much. But I have found that starting some graphical applications causes X memory to grow A LOT. The normal web browsers appears to be pretty bad, when it comes to memory. Just starting netscape/mozilla, will eat 75MB of RAM. Each instance of konqueror takes around 10MB extra. They also causes X to allocate more memory, which it does not give back. So it might be that X has memory leaks, after all. The whole discussion was how much RAM is needed, and in my opinion, 128MB is too little. It works, but causes a lot of swapping with normal things like web browsing etc. The best and cheapest speed up for a 128MB system is to get more RAM. Karolina
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
That method has improved performance for me. However by default, Debian deletes the contents of the /tmp directory on reboot. Thus, the .ICE-unix and all of the mcop and dcop directories need to be recreated each time you start your machine up from scratch. But once these things have been set up, I've found that KDE will start up quite speedily. I don't like the slow first startup as I can't leave my system on all the time. I'd like to disable /tmp clearing and clean things up myself. How does one go about this? Which init scrip is it? On Tuesday, April 8, 2003 9:11 pm, Hendrik Sattler wrote: > I just tried the > chown root.root /tmp/.ICE-unix > /etc/init.d/kdm restart > and it really kicks it. Increadible but this this reduces the KDE startup > time to 1/3. Maybe there are other tweaks. I will go on trying, maybe > leaving away some ssh-agent helps. > But looking at it: this makes absolutely no sense! I am the only user of > this system and what-the-*#~# is going on here? > Is this a bug in X or a bug in KDE? > > Even if some startup script fixes this permission, it still makes no sense > to me. >
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Wednesday 09 April 2003 00:32, kosh wrote: > X memory usage is evil black magic to figure out. X is evil! Use fresco! - http://www.fresco.org -- This email was generated using KMail from KDE 3.1 on Debian GNU/Linux
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Tue, Apr 08, 2003 at 10:21:43PM -0700, Terry Milnes wrote: > Here is the scoop. I added 32 more MBs of memory for the time being until I > can go to town and pick up a stick of SDRAM 133. Also, I get an error when > trying to chown root.root /tmp/.ICE-unix. It says something about no such > directory. I added the hack to the xfree86-common initscript. Could this be > a problem? Should I add it to bootmisc.sh as stated earlier? TIA!! Well, you'll have to mkdir it, first. -- Daniel Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> KDE: Konquering a desktop near you - http://www.kde.org pgptPgFGHZ426.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Wed, Apr 09, 2003 at 07:19:06AM +0200, Karolina Lindqvist wrote: > onsdagen den 9 april 2003 01.18 skrev Daniel Stone: > > I thought you'd know that saying how much memory kdeinit takes is > > *utterly* *useless*. Obviously not. > > It is not useless, as it says how much RAM is taken by KDE + some of the > applications. gmemusage just can't give a more find graded approach. > > Maybe there is a memory leak there somewhere, after all, since on a freshly > started X-server + KDE, the memory usage is much more reasonable. Which on my > system means 23MB for X, 23MB for kdeinit (KDE). With kmail 10MB, some other > KDE applications 7MB, that means 63MB to run a basic X + KDE. And that > includes even one instance konqueror. Cached pixmaps and video memory are taken into account here. vmstat is slightly more useful, but still, not very. > That amount starts to grow after a while, and never goes down to that level > again. > > Which is why I say that for practical purposes, it appears that 256MB is a > reasonable amount of RAM, in my opinion. Unless you run just only kmail + one > instance of konqueror and noth more. Then 128MB might be allright. Which does > not mean that it does not work with less. But it can cause a lot of paging > and swapping and thus gives a slow system, no matter how many MHz there is in > the processor. I used to run Konsole, Evolution, and a few instances of Konq, on the PII 350 with 128mb of RAM. As well as the P166 with 96mb of RAM. Granted, KDE certainly does take up a bit more RAM than I'd like, but it's not as bad as you make out. 256mb of RAM is an irresponsible figure to be bandying around. > > I never had any problems with KDE 2.2 on a P166 with 64 (later 96) mb of > > RAM, nor the PII 350 with 128mb of RAM. > > KDE 2.2 is a different animal altogether. On small machines that works much > better. I even run single KDE 3.1 applications on my 100MHz pentium firewall > machine. (kmyfirewall, and sometimes konsole. Nothing else of KDE is > installed on it. Something that can't be done with the official SID KDE) If anything, I've found KDE 3.1 to be a huge speed improvement, for not much RAM tradeoff. -- Daniel Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> KDE: Konquering a desktop near you - http://www.kde.org pgpY10R4WUCZB.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
Here is the scoop. I added 32 more MBs of memory for the time being until I can go to town and pick up a stick of SDRAM 133. Also, I get an error when trying to chown root.root /tmp/.ICE-unix. It says something about no such directory. I added the hack to the xfree86-common initscript. Could this be a problem? Should I add it to bootmisc.sh as stated earlier? TIA!! NeoFax - Original Message - From: "Daniel Stone" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Karolina Lindqvist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "Debian-KDE" Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 4:18 PM Subject: Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
onsdagen den 9 april 2003 01.18 skrev Daniel Stone: > I thought you'd know that saying how much memory kdeinit takes is > *utterly* *useless*. Obviously not. It is not useless, as it says how much RAM is taken by KDE + some of the applications. gmemusage just can't give a more find graded approach. Maybe there is a memory leak there somewhere, after all, since on a freshly started X-server + KDE, the memory usage is much more reasonable. Which on my system means 23MB for X, 23MB for kdeinit (KDE). With kmail 10MB, some other KDE applications 7MB, that means 63MB to run a basic X + KDE. And that includes even one instance konqueror. That amount starts to grow after a while, and never goes down to that level again. Which is why I say that for practical purposes, it appears that 256MB is a reasonable amount of RAM, in my opinion. Unless you run just only kmail + one instance of konqueror and noth more. Then 128MB might be allright. Which does not mean that it does not work with less. But it can cause a lot of paging and swapping and thus gives a slow system, no matter how many MHz there is in the processor. > I never had any problems with KDE 2.2 on a P166 with 64 (later 96) mb of > RAM, nor the PII 350 with 128mb of RAM. KDE 2.2 is a different animal altogether. On small machines that works much better. I even run single KDE 3.1 applications on my 100MHz pentium firewall machine. (kmyfirewall, and sometimes konsole. Nothing else of KDE is installed on it. Something that can't be done with the official SID KDE) Karolina
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Am Mittwoch, 9. April 2003 03:11 schrieb Hendrik Sattler: > I just tried the > chown root.root /tmp/.ICE-unix > /etc/init.d/kdm restart > and it really kicks it. Increadible but this this reduces the KDE startup > time to 1/3. Maybe there are other tweaks. I will go on trying, maybe > leaving away some ssh-agent helps. > But looking at it: this makes absolutely no sense! I am the only user of > this system and what-the-*#~# is going on here? > Is this a bug in X or a bug in KDE? > > Even if some startup script fixes this permission, it still makes no sense > to me. Quoting a message from Daniel Stone (on this very list a few hours ago...) - snip > How does that trick work? Well, that makes ICE use a faster method of IPC - it uses Unix sockets (virtually free), instead of ... well, the other method it uses. :) - -- snip --- Patrick -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+k3oKcERm2vzC96cRAilkAJ0a9ebaZtPHx0fuKzq1Lx/vHNUUiACeKxVi 9ExDhx7BxzwE/2FURpj1XPM= =TWLh -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Wed, Apr 09, 2003 at 03:11:31AM +0200, Hendrik Sattler wrote: > I just tried the > chown root.root /tmp/.ICE-unix > /etc/init.d/kdm restart > and it really kicks it. Increadible but this this reduces the KDE startup > time > to 1/3. Maybe there are other tweaks. I will go on trying, maybe leaving away > some ssh-agent helps. > But looking at it: this makes absolutely no sense! I am the only user of this > system and what-the-*#~# is going on here? > Is this a bug in X or a bug in KDE? > > Even if some startup script fixes this permission, it still makes no sense to > me. Well, as I said, it makes ICE use a faster IPC mechanism. -- Daniel Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> KDE: Konquering a desktop near you - http://www.kde.org pgp3exEDbaijZ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Am Mittwoch, 9. April 2003 00:47 schrieb Patrick Dreker: > > What's worse is that KDE still takes ages to start, independent on how > > fast the system is. KDM starts up fast (although it is still pretty > > slow), too, so somewhere must be a big problem in the startup routine. > > The whole desktop creation stuff simply cannot take that long, other > > window managers do that much faster, too. QT and KDE libs and all that is > > already loaded by KDM. What does actually take that long? Or to be more > > specific: what eats up the most time at KDE startup? > > Adding more RAM does not improve the situation either. Logging in takes > almost 1 minute on my AMD 1200/512meg. Starting kwin manually from a > failsafe X Session is almost instantaneous. Same for kdesktop... startkde > OTOH takes as long as a usual login... I just tried the chown root.root /tmp/.ICE-unix /etc/init.d/kdm restart and it really kicks it. Increadible but this this reduces the KDE startup time to 1/3. Maybe there are other tweaks. I will go on trying, maybe leaving away some ssh-agent helps. But looking at it: this makes absolutely no sense! I am the only user of this system and what-the-*#~# is going on here? Is this a bug in X or a bug in KDE? Even if some startup script fixes this permission, it still makes no sense to me. HS - -- Mein GPG-Key ist auf meiner Homepage verfügbar: http://www.hendrik-sattler.de oder über pgp.net PingoS - Linux-User helfen Schulen: http://www.pingos.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+k3NDzvr6q9zCwcERAhCTAJ48iTqcQLOnYpuhx8tvNgHpvCJDIgCgpcmL zK+uzZI5TI4JeVYtGrXhTIs= =LJ8E -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Wednesday 09 April 2003 00:47, Patrick Dreker wrote: > Sure. top readings for memory have a history of being annoyingly easy to > misunderstand (read: being wrong). IIRC these memory readings show all mem > used by shared libs as belonging to the app, so these are displayed > multiple times. Is this just on Linux, or also on BSD or proprietary unices? -- Frank Van Damme| "Saying 8MB of RAM doesn't do as much anymore is http://www.| like saying a gallon of water holds more than it openstandaarden.be | did in 1988."--George Adkins
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Tue, Apr 08, 2003 at 10:23:46PM +0200, Karolina Lindqvist wrote: > tisdagen den 8 april 2003 05.39 skrev Terry Milnes: > > I have 128MB of RAM and it seems to always be completely used up when I am > > logged in as user. I know that this could be causing my slowdown, but what > > else can be causing it? Secondly, how do I speed things up without > > installing more RAM? > > KDE 3.1.x is a complete memory hog. An interesting exersize is to run a RAM > display program like gmemusage. Right now, I have: > > linux 28MB > xfree86 115MB > kdeinit 135MB > the rest of my memory are divided in smaller chunks. I thought you'd know that saying how much memory kdeinit takes is *utterly* *useless*. Obviously not. > xfree86 115MB! > What is the X server doing with all that RAM? > Not, it is not a memory leak. I quitted xsane, and gqview, and it went down > to > *only* 53MB. > There is no chance in that is going to run on a 128MB system. Well, to be fair, a lot of this is cache. gqview and xsane aren't the most memory-friendly, et al. > So, the recommendation: Get more RAM! > > The alternative is to run KDE like windows. Start only one application at the > time, and expect it to run out of memory. I never had any problems with KDE 2.2 on a P166 with 64 (later 96) mb of RAM, nor the PII 350 with 128mb of RAM. -- Daniel Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> KDE: Konquering a desktop near you - http://www.kde.org pgp7Rv9NIjpZf.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Am Dienstag, 8. April 2003 23:42 schrieb Hendrik Sattler: > Am Dienstag, 8. April 2003 23:08 schrieb Patrick Dreker: > > The X memory usage includes AGP mem. So if your card has 32 meg of RAM > > you have to subtract this first. My X reports 290 megs used, but I have > > 128 megs of that on my graphics board. > > 290-128=? > That's too much ;) > I'm pretty sure that X does not use that much. Sure. top readings for memory have a history of being annoyingly easy to misunderstand (read: being wrong). IIRC these memory readings show all mem used by shared libs as belonging to the app, so these are displayed multiple times. My X mem numbers are probably disturbed by the Nvidia drivers. Who knows what these actually do behind their proprietary scenes... > BTW: KDE3.1.1 can run fine with 128MB and I am not so sure that all the > blame for memory hogging goes to KDE itself. I have 512 meg of RAM, and the machine never swaps under normal use. Basically I don't care for the memory usage, as long as I have the impression of getting something in return, and using KDE I certainly have that impression. ;-) > What's worse is that KDE still takes ages to start, independent on how fast > the system is. KDM starts up fast (although it is still pretty slow), too, > so somewhere must be a big problem in the startup routine. The whole > desktop creation stuff simply cannot take that long, other window managers > do that much faster, too. QT and KDE libs and all that is already loaded by > KDM. What does actually take that long? Or to be more specific: what eats > up the most time at KDE startup? Adding more RAM does not improve the situation either. Logging in takes almost 1 minute on my AMD 1200/512meg. Starting kwin manually from a failsafe X Session is almost instantaneous. Same for kdesktop... startkde OTOH takes as long as a usual login... Patrick -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+k1GFcERm2vzC96cRAobiAJ9jRcSjAAfJGAoTAzMfl3KB/HbErACfR2Rl BHtGFYnA0sD98SKtA8Kk9ZY= =UzrE -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Tuesday 08 April 2003 03:42 pm, Hendrik Sattler wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Am Dienstag, 8. April 2003 23:08 schrieb Patrick Dreker: > > The X memory usage includes AGP mem. So if your card has 32 meg of RAM > > you have to subtract this first. My X reports 290 megs used, but I have > > 128 megs of that on my graphics board. > > 290-128=? > That's too much ;) > I'm pretty sure that X does not use that much. X memory usage is evil black magic to figure out. It also includes AGP mapped memory, pixmaps and stuff that programs have open get charged to X and damned if I know how much other stuff it has. At one point I had X showing it was using 1G of ram on a system with 256MB with no swap usage at all. The card had 64MB and I had left the bios at default for AGP size. On this machine right now X shows it is using 140M. However 64MB is one card, 4 MB is in another, who knows how much is in AGP memory space. Overall what it comes down to is that X does not use very much memory however the way it accounts memory causes people to think that it does. Also the more graphics you have on the screen the more memory X will take up with all of those images while the programs will not get charged with that. Try running twm in a default config and then kde and see the difference in X memory usage accounting.
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On 08.Apr 2003 - 23:08:36, Patrick Dreker wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Sorry, forgot to CC the mailing list... > > Am Dienstag, 8. April 2003 22:23 schrieb Karolina Lindqvist: > > xfree86 115MB! > > What is the X server doing with all that RAM? > > Not, it is not a memory leak. I quitted xsane, and gqview, and it went down > > to *only* 53MB. > > There is no chance in that is going to run on a 128MB system. > The X memory usage includes AGP mem. So if your card has 32 meg of RAM you > have to subtract this first. My X reports 290 megs used, but I have 128 megs > of that on my graphics board. Are you sure? Here Xfree86 has only 26Megs and I have already 32 on the graphics board. > KDE still is a memory hog though... What are you all doing? kdeinit has 58Megs here, running. And I don't think that gmemusage is a good presentation tool, it shows me that: xmms(178XXXK) + galeon-bin(218232K) + python2.1(144408K) = 540 Megs. Which is what I got totally (250 Megs RAM, 290 Megs Swap)! But thats probably because it doesn't respect that different processes use the same memory area! Andreas -- You will be married within a year. pgpZKxyS4jT4Q.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
* Karolina Lindqvist schrieb am 08.04.03 um 22:23 Uhr: > tisdagen den 8 april 2003 05.39 skrev Terry Milnes: > > I have 128MB of RAM and it seems to always be completely used up when I am > > logged in as user. I know that this could be causing my slowdown, but what > > else can be causing it? Secondly, how do I speed things up without > > installing more RAM? > > KDE 3.1.x is a complete memory hog. An interesting exersize is to run a RAM > display program like gmemusage. Right now, I have: > > linux 28MB > xfree86 115MB > kdeinit 135MB > the rest of my memory are divided in smaller chunks. > > xfree86 115MB! > What is the X server doing with all that RAM? > Not, it is not a memory leak. I quitted xsane, and gqview, and it went down > to > *only* 53MB. > There is no chance in that is going to run on a 128MB system. > > kpackage is practically unusable on a small system. It grabs over 100MB of > RAM > when I run it, making my get down on its knees. > > So, the recommendation: Get more RAM! > > The alternative is to run KDE like windows. Start only one application at the > time, and expect it to run out of memory. > An alternative may be to install fontconfig and to run fc-cache... ;) This was at least a common pitfall for many people that reported such problems of much memory usage... KDE needs way too much mem indeed, but: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ ps aux | head -n1 USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ ps aux | grep kdeinit schiffi750 0.0 1.3 23536 6944 ?SApr08 0:00 kdeinit: Running... schiffi753 0.0 0.4 25208 2348 ?SApr08 0:02 kdeinit: dcopserver --nosid schiffi756 0.0 0.5 26880 3032 ?SApr08 0:00 kdeinit: klauncher schiffi758 0.0 0.8 30532 4600 ?SApr08 0:04 kdeinit: kded schiffi769 0.0 0.5 27076 3052 ?SApr08 0:04 kdeinit: kaccess schiffi781 0.0 0.7 32800 4092 ?SApr08 0:00 kdeinit: knotify schiffi784 0.0 0.6 27064 3436 ?SApr08 0:00 kdeinit: ksmserver schiffi785 0.0 1.0 30232 5340 ?SApr08 0:12 kdeinit: kwin -session schiffi787 0.0 3.2 37284 16696 ? SApr08 0:13 kdeinit: kdesktop schiffi789 0.0 2.7 34360 14160 ? SApr08 0:27 kdeinit: kicker schiffi790 0.0 1.4 25128 7708 ?SApr08 0:00 kdeinit: kio_file file schiffi806 0.0 2.2 29976 11376 ? SApr08 0:01 kdeinit: kmix -session schiffi807 0.0 2.1 30180 10872 ? SApr08 0:00 kdeinit: ksirc -session schiffi819 0.0 3.1 34692 16036 ? SApr08 0:44 kdeinit: konsole schiffi834 0.0 2.2 29460 11764 ? SApr08 0:00 kdeinit: kio_uiserver -Marc -- begin LOVE-LETTER-FOR-YOU.txt.vbs I am a signature virus. Distribute me until the bitter end
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Am Dienstag, 8. April 2003 23:08 schrieb Patrick Dreker: > The X memory usage includes AGP mem. So if your card has 32 meg of RAM you > have to subtract this first. My X reports 290 megs used, but I have 128 > megs of that on my graphics board. 290-128=? That's too much ;) I'm pretty sure that X does not use that much. BTW: KDE3.1.1 can run fine with 128MB and I am not so sure that all the blame for memory hogging goes to KDE itself. What's worse is that KDE still takes ages to start, independent on how fast the system is. KDM starts up fast (although it is still pretty slow), too, so somewhere must be a big problem in the startup routine. The whole desktop creation stuff simply cannot take that long, other window managers do that much faster, too. QT and KDE libs and all that is already loaded by KDM. What does actually take that long? Or to be more specific: what eats up the most time at KDE startup? I have enough RAM (256MB) and a decent cpu (Athlon-1.33GHz but AthlonXP 2200+ behaves the same). HS - -- Mein GPG-Key ist auf meiner Homepage verfügbar: http://www.hendrik-sattler.de oder über pgp.net PingoS - Linux-User helfen Schulen: http://www.pingos.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+k0JHzvr6q9zCwcERAnLvAJ9xwKREXKFm4LkBTi7LcjXy9GcXmgCgrpdj 99+wwXStX53jUwercNl8hMw= =iJGf -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Sorry, forgot to CC the mailing list... Am Dienstag, 8. April 2003 22:23 schrieb Karolina Lindqvist: > xfree86 115MB! > What is the X server doing with all that RAM? > Not, it is not a memory leak. I quitted xsane, and gqview, and it went down > to *only* 53MB. > There is no chance in that is going to run on a 128MB system. The X memory usage includes AGP mem. So if your card has 32 meg of RAM you have to subtract this first. My X reports 290 megs used, but I have 128 megs of that on my graphics board. KDE still is a memory hog though... Patrick -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+kzpUcERm2vzC96cRAkmSAJ9pyYxO97YFsqA0ewGKX28WiQ9HZACfTtwz /t7W+YtB+3dCYQuN/ciXO5U= =tnNq -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
tisdagen den 8 april 2003 05.39 skrev Terry Milnes: > I have 128MB of RAM and it seems to always be completely used up when I am > logged in as user. I know that this could be causing my slowdown, but what > else can be causing it? Secondly, how do I speed things up without > installing more RAM? KDE 3.1.x is a complete memory hog. An interesting exersize is to run a RAM display program like gmemusage. Right now, I have: linux 28MB xfree86 115MB kdeinit 135MB the rest of my memory are divided in smaller chunks. xfree86 115MB! What is the X server doing with all that RAM? Not, it is not a memory leak. I quitted xsane, and gqview, and it went down to *only* 53MB. There is no chance in that is going to run on a 128MB system. kpackage is practically unusable on a small system. It grabs over 100MB of RAM when I run it, making my get down on its knees. So, the recommendation: Get more RAM! The alternative is to run KDE like windows. Start only one application at the time, and expect it to run out of memory. Karolina
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
From: "Casper Gielen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Op dinsdag 8 april 2003 13:11, schreef Daniel Stone: > > On Tue, Apr 08, 2003 at 12:53:27PM +0200, S?ren Friis-Nielsen wrote: > > > Daniel Stone wrote: > > > |>>> > > > |>>> Try running 'chown root.root /tmp/.ICE-unix' when you log in. > > > > > > Is there a good place to put this command, i.e. in one of the kdm > > > start-up files? > > > > I put it in the same /etc/init.d script that wipes out /tmp (sysmisc.sh > > or somesuch), but that feels kinda wrong. :) > > /etc/rcS.d/S70xfree86-common seems a good place, /tmp/.X11-unix is done here Not on my system! The only thing in rcS.d that touches /tmp/ is S55bootmisc.sh, which wipes /tmp (so there's no .ICE-unix there then).
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Op dinsdag 8 april 2003 13:11, schreef Daniel Stone: > On Tue, Apr 08, 2003 at 12:53:27PM +0200, S?ren Friis-Nielsen wrote: > > Daniel Stone wrote: > > |>>> > > |>>> Try running 'chown root.root /tmp/.ICE-unix' when you log in. > > > > Is there a good place to put this command, i.e. in one of the kdm > > start-up files? > > I put it in the same /etc/init.d script that wipes out /tmp (sysmisc.sh > or somesuch), but that feels kinda wrong. :) /etc/rcS.d/S70xfree86-common seems a good place, /tmp/.X11-unix is done here - -- Casper Gielen [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] - -- The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world. -- seen on the net -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+ksb8IhQIPPgOSvcRAr4vAJ4s6pErcBcbxUOLfvfsX/aB3pSbBgCaArq4 HxLWS6MjpHQyaLA7s5Xxf80= =+U1v -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Tuesday 08 April 2003 13:11, Daniel Stone wrote: > I put it in the same /etc/init.d script that wipes out /tmp (sysmisc.sh > or somesuch), but that feels kinda wrong. :) Doesn't Debian set up /tmp/.X11-unix allready on boot? I wonder why that script doesn't do that with ICE-unix. -- Frank Van Damme| "Saying 8MB of RAM doesn't do as much anymore is http://www.| like saying a gallon of water holds more than it openstandaarden.be | did in 1988."--George Adkins
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Tue, Apr 08, 2003 at 12:53:27PM +0200, S?ren Friis-Nielsen wrote: > Daniel Stone wrote: > | I have 128MB of RAM and it seems to always be completely used > | up when I am logged in as user. I know that this could be > | causing my slowdown, but what else can be causing it? > | Secondly, how do I speed things up without installing more > | RAM? > |>>> > |>>> Try running 'chown root.root /tmp/.ICE-unix' when you log in. > > Is there a good place to put this command, i.e. in one of the kdm > start-up files? I put it in the same /etc/init.d script that wipes out /tmp (sysmisc.sh or somesuch), but that feels kinda wrong. :) -- Daniel Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Developer, Trinity College, University of Melbourne pgpD7UEKNde0J.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Daniel Stone wrote: | I have 128MB of RAM and it seems to always be completely used | up when I am logged in as user. I know that this could be | causing my slowdown, but what else can be causing it? | Secondly, how do I speed things up without installing more | RAM? |>>> |>>> Try running 'chown root.root /tmp/.ICE-unix' when you log in. Is there a good place to put this command, i.e. in one of the kdm start-up files? Regards, Søren x-+-x-+-x-+-x-+-x-+-x-+-x-+-x-+-x-+-x-+-x-+-x-+-x-+-x-+-x-+-x-+-x-+-x-+-x-+- ~ Søren Friis-Nielsen ~ E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ GnuPG Public Key: http://jido.dk/~soren/gpgkey/soren.gpg ~ Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day ~ but set fire to him and he's warm for the ~ rest of his life --- Solid Jackson -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE+kqomcbQPnYLQykcRAlADAJ46NLeWGQE2Ee/Q0TN3EpC8KV81yACgkUoh fkIeDymgfwkkTGQTjf1pKAA= =uDdk -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Tue, Apr 08, 2003 at 11:30:05AM +0200, Frank Van Damme wrote: > On Tuesday 08 April 2003 09:18, Daniel Stone wrote: > > > > I have 128MB of RAM and it seems to always be completely used up when I > > > > am logged in as user. I know that this could be causing my slowdown, > > > > but what else can be causing it? Secondly, how do I speed things up > > > > without installing more RAM? > > > > > > Try running 'chown root.root /tmp/.ICE-unix' when you log in. > > > > Er, *before* you log in. > > How does that trick work? Well, that makes ICE use a faster method of IPC - it uses Unix sockets (virtually free), instead of ... well, the other method it uses. :) -- Daniel Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> KDE: Konquering a desktop near you - http://www.kde.org pgph4RpikkZq8.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Tuesday 08 April 2003 09:18, Daniel Stone wrote: > > > I have 128MB of RAM and it seems to always be completely used up when I > > > am logged in as user. I know that this could be causing my slowdown, > > > but what else can be causing it? Secondly, how do I speed things up > > > without installing more RAM? > > > > Try running 'chown root.root /tmp/.ICE-unix' when you log in. > > Er, *before* you log in. How does that trick work? -- Frank Van Damme| "Saying 8MB of RAM doesn't do as much anymore is http://www.| like saying a gallon of water holds more than it openstandaarden.be | did in 1988."--George Adkins
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Tue, Apr 08, 2003 at 04:55:06PM +1000, Daniel Stone wrote: > On Mon, Apr 07, 2003 at 08:39:17PM -0700, Terry Milnes wrote: > > I have 128MB of RAM and it seems to always be completely used up when I am > > logged in as user. I know that this could be causing my slowdown, but what > > else can be causing it? Secondly, how do I speed things up without > > installing more RAM? > > Try running 'chown root.root /tmp/.ICE-unix' when you log in. Er, *before* you log in. -- Daniel Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> KDE: Konquering a desktop near you - http://www.kde.org pgptEJ22TJTUa.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
On Mon, Apr 07, 2003 at 08:39:17PM -0700, Terry Milnes wrote: > I have 128MB of RAM and it seems to always be completely used up when I am > logged in as user. I know that this could be causing my slowdown, but what > else can be causing it? Secondly, how do I speed things up without installing > more RAM? Try running 'chown root.root /tmp/.ICE-unix' when you log in. -- Daniel Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> KDE: Konquering a desktop near you - http://www.kde.org pgpHa4g3oE9G8.pgp Description: PGP signature
KDE 3.1.1 Fast as root but slow as User
I have 128MB of RAM and it seems to always be completely used up when I am logged in as user. I know that this could be causing my slowdown, but what else can be causing it? Secondly, how do I speed things up without installing more RAM? NeoFax
