No updates for Sarge

[John Graves]

I was successfully using apt-get to maintain my sarge installation on my 
server.  The week before sarge went stable I changed the 2 entries in my 
sources.list from testing to sarge and again successfully received an 
update.  Now that Sarge is stable, I have not received any updates 
either normal or security.   My sources.list is as shown in the release 
notes.  I show a list of hits but nothing is brought down either from 
debian or from security.debian sources.   I am using http.us.debian.org 
and security.debian.org. Can someone point me to a reference that might 
help me figure out what is happening?

--
John Graves

Dynamic Devices, Inc
Wakefield, M

781-245-9100


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Re: Top posting

[Hal Vaughan]

On Tuesday 14 June 2005 01:41 am, Steve Lamb wrote:
> Hal Vaughan wrote:
> > Actually, they are not as objective as one would think.
>
> Statement with no backup, gotta love it.

Gone through that statement several times in the thread.  I wrote a number of 
times about differences between objective and subjective points of views.  If 
you didn't see it, go back, find them, *then* decide whether there's no 
backup.  I'm not going to repeat what I've already said in several posts.

> > Putting a few sentences together in reverse order is not a comparison to
> > top posting.
>
> Yes, it is because that is exactly what top posting does.

Nope.  Different scale entirely. That's like saying re-arranging protons 
within a nucleus of an atom does not change the atom, but if you have a group 
of atoms, they can form different molecules with different properties 
depending on their arrangement.

> > There are many reasons, in writing, to start with a conclusion.
>
> This isn't one of them.  Generally when one starts with a conclusion
> one is not *replying* to someone else but is, in fact, giving a lecture.

That's your opinion, and it doesn't hold in all cases.

> > As to the "as /most/ points", I have yet to see anyone saying that show
> > that they have the least insight into learning and perception styles and
> > how different types of minds/personalities read and perceive information.
>
> This isn't about how different minds/personalities read and perceive
> information.  It is about how things are done, why they are done that way
> and how one can LEARN to do it that way if one weren't lazy.

Actually it is.  I remember Harry Truman saying he never wanted to hear from 
experts because all experts were people that didn't want to learn anything 
more about their field, because if they did, they'd realize there was more to 
learn and they weren't an expert anymore.  The point I am making, which you 
are so quick to write off is that not all people learn and process data that 
way.  It's not a point of being lazy.  It is a point that different people 
learn and process in different ways.  We can be open to that, or we can be 
closed minded about that.  And before you come back with something about it 
being done only one way, go back and look over the history of science and 
computers and see how many breakthroughs or advances were made by the people 
who didn't think like everyeone else. Are we so good we should adopt policies 
that discourage such people?

But I suppose the point here is that it is more important to set rules and 
feel we are right than actually deal with life and people in that life as 
they are.

Hal


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Re: Disk Mirroring in Sarge howto

[Alvin Oga]

hi ya

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005, Siju George wrote:

> I want to have the following partitions in both the hard disk
> 
> / - 500 MB - Primary

good

> swap - 2 GB - Primary

bad location ??  if it is partition#2

> /usr - 5 GB - Primary

ok

> /home - 500 MB - Logical

extreme bad idea if you have users 

> /tmp - 5 GB - Logical

extreme bad idea unless oyu have specific applications
that will run that requires /tmp to be that big

most apps uses less than 100mb of /tmp or /var/tmp or /usr/tmp

> /var/log - 5 GB -logical

wow .. you're collecting tons of log data ??
- how much data do you have now  in /var/log

> /var - rest of the disk - logical

extreme bad idea ... unless you have users

- if you are intending to make a complete debian mirror
  in /var/apt and equiv .. than it might be okay, but i'd
  separate /var for users vs /var for system to keep itself running

you cannot ever provide enough disk space for uwers or your own
applications .. you will always run out of space ..

some apps require /opt in which case / is too small

> I prefer ext3 or ReiserFS for file systems.

or xfs or jfs ..

for disks that are say 500GB or more ... i'm not even gonna try
using ext3 ... 

for partitions over 2TB ... its gonna be a fun testing game of
which apps crash first because it used the wrong libs

> How should I go about it???

manually fdisk it ... or write a small script ( 5-10 minutes )

write a 2nd script to copy over the data

mount /dev/somthing newdisk
cp -dpar  /lib /boot /bin /sbin /home /var /newdisk
sync
chroot /newdisk 
rerun lilo or grub or dd the mbr
reboot

c ya
alvin


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Re: Top posting

[Steve Lamb]

Hal Vaughan wrote:
> Actually, they are not as objective as one would think.

Statement with no backup, gotta love it.

> Putting a few sentences together in reverse order is not a comparison to
> top posting.

Yes, it is because that is exactly what top posting does.

> There are many reasons, in writing, to start with a conclusion.

This isn't one of them.  Generally when one starts with a conclusion one
is not *replying* to someone else but is, in fact, giving a lecture.

> As to the "as /most/ points", I have yet to see anyone saying that show
> that they have the least insight into learning and perception styles and
> how different types of minds/personalities read and perceive information.

This isn't about how different minds/personalities read and perceive
information.  It is about how things are done, why they are done that way and
how one can LEARN to do it that way if one weren't lazy.

-- 
 Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
   PGP Key: 8B6E99C5   | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
---+-


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Newbie needs help fine tuning sarge

[j Mak]

Hi,

I've just installed sarge with much help from the
debian community. It works fine, now, and I am very
satisfied with it. But I have a few things still left
to fine tune. 
1  My /apt/sources.list is empty, where can i find
repository addresses.
2.Currntly, I can start synaptic only form the command
line but not from the menu, how can i fix this.
3.I connet to the internet using pon from the command
line, is there a   graphical interface for pon.

Thanks a lot
jozsefmak

__
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Re: Top posting

[Hal Vaughan]

On Tuesday 14 June 2005 12:05 am, Alex Malinovich wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-06-13 at 22:33 -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
> --snip--
>
> > you've noticed, I inline post, and rarely top post.  I know that is how
> > it is done, but the will of the group is not always right.  Where there
> > is one,
>
> You're absolutely right. The will of the group most definitely is NOT
> always right. However, in a situation like d-u, if you want to
> participate in the group and get help from the group, you either play by
> the group's rules or not at all.

Yes, that is an excellent point.  I play by the rules.  I am simply standing 
for those who may either not know the rules, or may actually be confused 
because top posting works for them and inline or bottom posting doesn't.  I'm 
stubborn in that I am almost always standing up for the minority that others 
feel they should write off.



> > originally used my words above, they were in reference to someone
> > trashing all those involved in proprietary software.  There is a big
> > difference: I have been able to observe all the people upon which I am
> > commenting.  The person who originally commented on proprietary software
> > was not able to observer anywhere near even 1% of that group and was
> > creating a strongly negative stereotype based on observing, as I said,
> > less than 1% of that group.
>
> That was me. And the stereotype was very much intended to be both a
> stereotype and negative. Users of proprietary software have just as much
> right to use that software as I have to use free software. I would not
> aim to deprive them of that right. However, in exercising that right,
> they diminish and potentially undermine my ability to use free software,
> so therefore I do not like them and will not pretend that I do. To
> paraphrase a great quote, I may defend your right to say what you want,
> but I sure as hell don't have to pretend to like it. :)

I don't agree that someone else's use of proprietary software they diminish 
your ability to use FOSS, but I'd be interested in hearing the reason behind 
it.

> --snip--
>
> > I'm trying to find where I ever said they were morally superior.  I never
> > said it, so I think it comes down to did I imply it or did you (or anyone
> > else) infer it.  Open mindedness is not necessarily superior to closed
> > mindedness. In many cases it is, but that does not give me a moral high
> > ground.
>
> I very much inferred it, particularly from the bit that I quoted. The
> fact that the paragraph was making a generalization very probably had a
> good deal to do with how I took the sentence. (See above about
> generalizations.)

One point that impresses me is that you are aware of the difference between 
imply and infer, and who does which one.  I've seen that point sidestepped 
or, more often, blundered over by people who either don't want to see the 
difference, or have forgotten high school English.  Maybe I was 
overgeneralizing, but the intent was not to claim a high ground.

> --snip--
>
> > Thank you, again.  It's nice to know that at some level my words effected
> > you so deeply you remembered them, and took the time to find them and
> > re-use them.
>
> Same as above. I may not agree with all you have to say, but you speak
> your peace well so I tend to remember it.

Thank you.  You have also done an excellent job at making your points clearly 
and well.  I agree about defending what a person has to say, and I'd always 
prefer to hear someone disagree and argue their point well than hear someone 
agree and say nothing but crap that they think is logic.  At least I can 
learn from the former.  The latter not only doesn't educate, but can weaken 
an overall argument.


> > So I guess I'm saying/asking (and not in a debate format, but out of
> > curiosity), when you go for extreme points, doesn't that often hurt your
> > point because you're taking it too far?
>
> What I try to do is state extreme points bluntly and with humor. I
> always express what my stance on a position is, but I try to show it in
> an extreme enough manner to get a chuckle out of my audience. If you
> take the time to chuckle at what I've said, you're less likely to
> immediately become angry at it and disregard everything in the message.

That's a good way to do it.  I don't use much humor (witness my attempt at a 
sort of double irony in my first post on this thread that just didn't work 
and) in discussions, since it falls flat.  I can write funny, and I can write 
to prove my point, but I've never learned to balance the two.

Understanding the anger in a reader is important.  Sometimes a post seems 
intended to do nothing but anger the opposition, and all that does is make 
them want to anger you in return.  Then you have nothing but a zero-sum game.


> (See initial point about group rules.) I definitely agree that people
> who choose to top-post should not be banned or ostracized. I do feel
> that if a top-poster comes to d-u and is told nicely (a

Re: Gwebdec (Solved)

[David R. Litwin]

Now that's a fine Idea.

Summary:

Problem: I like webshots, not available for Windows. So, I found
gwebdec. Now, when I installed it (via make), it gave a large output
and essentially, did not install. After much looking at things, it
turns out that I didn't have the gtk2.0-dev package installed. After
doing so (and completing the installation via make file), it still
didn't work. I tried gwebdec and it gave me an output that cited X11
not being able to find a server. It turns out that I was still in the
su mode. I exited, tried again and now have lovely pictures on my
desktop and a nive screen-saver.

Brief Apt-Get and KDE Question

[David R. Litwin]

I
have recently gotten KDE 3.4.1 from deb
http://pkg-KDE.alioth.debian.org/kde-3.4.1/ ./ which is apparently a
legitimate debian site from which to get KDE. Now, after doing the
usual apt-get and apt-upgrade (and dist-upgrade: I wanted the latest
version of Sarge, but I don't think that matters here) to install it, I
ran apt-get update again, then apt-get upgrade. It said I had
twenty-nine packages to up-grade. So, I did apt-get -V upgrade and it
said (for each one, mind) (3.3.2-1 => 3.4.1-1) (save only that the
3.3.2-# some times changed. The number after the hyphen, that is).

The question is this, then. If I execute the upgrade, will I really
upgrade from 3.3.2 to 3.4.1 or vice-versa, I. E. downgrade from 3.4.1
to 3.3.2?

Thanks.-- —Moose Moose Jam Sausage Meow-Mix.—My Hover-Craft is Full of Eels.—[...]and that's the he and the she of it.

Re: Sarge Upgrade DEBOCLE ! ! !

[Kevin Mark]

On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 08:17:25PM -0400, Brian Kimsey-Hickman wrote:
> Help me please!
> 
> I have mistakenly trusted the Debian community and upgraded to Sarge
> and it is a DISASTER.
> 
> HOW COULD YOU HAVE DONE THIS TO US ! ! !
> 
> (Reading database ... 70119 files and directories currently installed.)
> Removing xserver-rage128 ...
> sed: can't read /etc/X11/Xserver: No such file or directory
> dpkg: error processing xserver-rage128 (--remove):
>   subprocess post-removal script returned error exit status 2
Hi Brian,
I'd look at the post removal script and see if you can:
1) find out how to fix the problem to allow the script to work on a
re-run
(these are in /var/lib/dpkg/info/xserver-rage128.*) 
2) make a hack to allow you to remove the package and then reinstall it
after every other package is upgrade WITH APTITUDE. 

The stable release notes say to upgrade apt first and then use aptitude 
for the dist-upgrade. READ THE DEBIAN-USER LIST ARCHIVE from the last
week for many, many good hint and info. And like Nixon said 'trust, but
verify'. While Debian has super-cow powers, some times there is a fly in
the ointment. Now back to our regularly scheduled program...

BTW how many packages upgrade ok, how may didn't?
Cheers,
Kev
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$$ $ $$g$ $ $ $ ,$P""  $ $$
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Re: Gwebdec

[David R. Litwin]

No. Gwebdec is a Webshots for Linux, in essence.

Migrated OT: Top posting

[Kent West]

Cybe R. Wizard wrote:

>Kent West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  
>
>>What is the difference between a duck?
>>
>>(Which I _still_ don't get.)
>>
>>
>And that, I believe, is the point.  Kinda like one hand clapping or the
>trees/forest thing.
>  
>

Ah-hah! Now I don't get it . . . . Thanks!

(Although there was once an episode of "The Rockford Files" in which I
learned the sound of one hand clapping. Rather satisfying, actually.)

-- 
Kent


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Re: Request for window manager recommendations

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 22:49:45 +0100
Simon Huggins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 02:00:18PM -0500, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:

...

> Last week Xfce4 crashed on
> > me five times.  Other than that, yes, it's a good compromise*.  I've
> > gone back to the tried and true IceWM.
> 
> How did you manage that?  The panel plugins aren't sandboxed which can
> cause problems if the plugins have bugs.  Which ones did you have
> installed?
> 
> I must admit I didn't see your bug report in the BTS despite getting
> all of them for all the packages.  Perhaps you can point me at it?
> 
> Simon.
> 
Crashed is probably the wrong term.  It locked up to the point that I
couldn't  to a console in order to shut it down although 
 still worked to kill it.  I installed every
plugin I could find, isn't that the Proper Thing To DO?

As for a bug report, I just went right back to what works for me and
didn't feel right intruding into the operations of a package I don't
typically use and of which I might not know the inside workings very
well.  Besides, I fear appearing too very foolish if there is an
easy and obvious fix that I'm just too dense to find.  Perhaps I should
have devoted more time to it and filed that report, but, oh well. Now
had it been Ice...

Cybe R. Wizard
-- 
If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we
can solve them.
   - Isaac Asimov


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Re: sound problems with 2.6

[Prasenjit Kapat]

thanx a ton Colin. i surely appreciate it. now as I had mentioned, I
have two sound cards... using alsaconf, i can play ONLY one.

1. if set up snd-intel8x0 : i am able to play into the on-board intel
card but into the  pci card.

2. if i set up snd-ens1371 : i am able to play into the pci card but
not into the on-board intel card.

how do i do both ?? secondly, what are the sound device ? i mean
/dev/dsp is the one used in both cases.. not, if both the cards work,
then i suppose the two devices would be /dev/dsp -> /dev/dsp0 and
/dev/dsp1 ??

hey man thanx.

On 6/13/05, Colin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Prasenjit Kapat wrote:
> > My life was fine with a 2.4.25 kernel and 'sid' distro. I re-installed
> > the entire system with the 2.6 kernel and 'sid' distro. Now I can not
> > get my soundcards working. I have an onborad intel's integrated sound
> > device, which was being recognised by i810_audio driver earlier and a
> > creative labs' sound blaster 16 which was being recognised by es1371
> > (ac97_codec).
> 
> I'm just assuming that you want to use ALSA now.  Install the "alsa-utils"
> package and run "alsaconf"
> 
> I think these are the modules that you want to load (and alsaconf should
> configure for you):
> 
> snd-ens1371
> snd-intel8x0
> snd-pcm-oss
> snd-mixer-oss
> 
> A good idea would be to note all the modules before you run alsaconf (by
> running "lspci | grep snd") and after running alsaconf.  Add any new
> modules to your /etc/modules file.
> 
> Last, and certainly not least, run "alsamixergui" to set the volume levels
> properly so that you'll actually hear something.
>

disk quota changes in Sarge upgrade

[Ross Tsolakidis]

Hi all,

Recently upgraded to the new version of Debian, and noticed that quotas
stopped working.
I did see a message pop up something about quota changing and needing to
be started some other way.

I didn't take notice, my fault totally.

Can anyone gimme a hand or does anyone remember what the change is from
the old quota system to the new quota system ?

Thanks,

Ross.

Re: Top posting

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:58:15 -0500
Kent West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> 
> >On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:04:41 -0700
> >Steve Lamb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >  
> >
> >>>(*ducks*)
> >>>  
> >>>
> >>*tosses peanuts back at the gallery!*
> >>
> >>
> >Ducks eat peanuts?
> >  
> >
> What is the difference between a duck?
> 
> (Which I _still_ don't get.)
> 
And that, I believe, is the point.  Kinda like one hand clapping or the
trees/forest thing.

Cybe R. Wizard
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Winduhs


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Re: Top posting

[Alex Malinovich]

On Mon, 2005-06-13 at 22:33 -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
--snip-- 
> you've noticed, I inline post, and rarely top post.  I know that is how it is 
> done, but the will of the group is not always right.  Where there is one, 

You're absolutely right. The will of the group most definitely is NOT
always right. However, in a situation like d-u, if you want to
participate in the group and get help from the group, you either play by
the group's rules or not at all.

If you just want to come in and make a point, then that's fine. Just
don't expect people to help you if the point you're making is against
one of their pre-established practices. ('you' being a generic term, not
referring to anyone in particular here.)

--snip-- 
> My words have proven so important to you that you took the time out of your 
> life to go back and look them up and re-use them.  So, before I say anything 
> else, thank you for using your actions to pay me a compliment and let me know 
> that at some level, what I wrote had such an impact that you remembered them, 
> and took the time to look them up and quote them directly.

Absolutely. I meant to imply nothing else. I most certainly did remember
your words as they were written in response to mine. And while they did
not agree with my point, they were written in response to my point. To
use your above example, you thought my words were important enough to
take the time to write words of your own to answer them. I stated my
opinion, and you stated yours, so all is as it should be.

--snip-- 
> I'm making a point.  You can call it self serving or not.  I'm making an 
> observation about a group of people responding to a specific thread.  When I 

i.e. You're making a generalization. And generalizations have a way of
stepping many toes and opening few minds. Not an affront, just an
observation.

> originally used my words above, they were in reference to someone trashing 
> all those involved in proprietary software.  There is a big difference: I 
> have been able to observe all the people upon which I am commenting.  The 
> person who originally commented on proprietary software was not able to 
> observer anywhere near even 1% of that group and was creating a strongly 
> negative stereotype based on observing, as I said, less than 1% of that 
> group.

That was me. And the stereotype was very much intended to be both a
stereotype and negative. Users of proprietary software have just as much
right to use that software as I have to use free software. I would not
aim to deprive them of that right. However, in exercising that right,
they diminish and potentially undermine my ability to use free software,
so therefore I do not like them and will not pretend that I do. To
paraphrase a great quote, I may defend your right to say what you want,
but I sure as hell don't have to pretend to like it. :)

--snip-- 
> I'm trying to find where I ever said they were morally superior.  I never 
> said 
> it, so I think it comes down to did I imply it or did you (or anyone else) 
> infer it.  Open mindedness is not necessarily superior to closed mindedness.  
> In many cases it is, but that does not give me a moral high ground.

I very much inferred it, particularly from the bit that I quoted. The
fact that the paragraph was making a generalization very probably had a
good deal to do with how I took the sentence. (See above about
generalizations.)

--snip-- 
> Thank you, again.  It's nice to know that at some level my words effected you 
> so deeply you remembered them, and took the time to find them and re-use 
> them.

Same as above. I may not agree with all you have to say, but you speak
your peace well so I tend to remember it.

--snip-- 
> You do go to quite extreme points.  If that's your style, fine.  I personally 
> find it often doesn't work because you end up with a "not drawing the line" 
> situation.  For example, if I say one needs to be tolerant of other 
> behaviors, and I'm referring to something as simple as top-posting, there's 
> always gotta be someone who says, "So you mean if someone kills someone, we 
> should tolerate it."  The two situations are not comparable, and extending 
> one into the other really has no basis.

I try not to go to that extreme. In my experience choosing an argument
so loosely related to the original in an attempt to bolster one's own
argument is a sure sign of a poorly thought out and defended position.
If a person gets to that point in a debate, they've already lost.

> So I guess I'm saying/asking (and not in a debate format, but out of 
> curiosity), when you go for extreme points, doesn't that often hurt your 
> point because you're taking it too far?

What I try to do is state extreme points bluntly and with humor. I
always express what my stance on a position is, but I try to show it in
an extreme enough manner to get a chuckle out of my audience. If you
take the time to chuckle at what I've said, you're less likely to
immediately become angry at it and 

Re: X configuration probs

[Ivan Teliatnikov]

# Dirt and easy method.
===
If you do not know much about Xfree, why should you?
try this dirt and easy methods. On many machines I tried it worked just
find.

# I assuming that you know how to run command from command line and 
# that /etc/apt/sources.list is configured properly.

# Install as root

apt-get update
apt-get install xdebconfigurator hwinfo

# if any suggestions are given install them as well.

# copy you original 
cp /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 /etc/X11/XF86Config-4.bkp

# run autoconfigurator
xdebconfigurator && dexconf

# try starting X
startx

# Check your resolution and adjust it by adding to higher values if
necessary. Your new /etc/X11/XF86Config-4

# In gnome there is nice Desctop Resolution Tool : Apps > Desktop
Properties > Screen Resolution, have a look what is available there.

# If you think that both your graphics card and monitor can support
higher values, adjust your /etc/X11/XF86Config-4. Look for lines as
shown below and add new modes with higher resolution.

SubSection "Display"  
Depth 16 
Modes  "1600x1200" "1280x1024" "1152x864" "1024x768" 
EndSubSection

SubSection "Display"
Depth   24
Modes   "1600x1200" "1280x1024" "1152x864" "1024x768"
EndSubSection

Restart your X by pressing Ctrl-Alt-BackSpace or 

by restarting desktop manger, I use Gnome and do it as follows:

/etc/init.d/gdm restart

Tell us what you see.

On Thu, 2005-06-09 at 11:31 -0500, Abhishek wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>  I am basically a redhat linux user &
> tryingout the debian distro.
>  I have written the XFree86 file but when trying the command X or
> startx it is refusing to start but when I am using X -xf86config
> /etc/X11/XFree86 the server is starting but the GNOME env is not
> appearing. The config files r also present in /usr/X11R6. I have herd
> that there is no command equivalent to redhat-config-xfree86 which
> configures automatically.
>  Please help me out.
> Frm,
> Abhishek.
> 
> 
> 
-- 
Ivan Teliatnikovphone: +61 2 9351 2031
F05, Edgeworth David Bld.  fax: +61 2 9351 0184
School of Geosciences   email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
University of Sydney   www: http://www.geosci.usyd.edu.au
Australia


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Re: Ifconfig

[Kent West]

Ag! You haven't been paying attention to the "Top Posting" thread, have you?

David R. Litwin wrote:

> I have tried to modify the interfaces file before. I added precisely
> what you told me to. It did not work. But, since I did a dist-upgrade
> from Sarge to Stable Sarge, the file change. I have re-added it:
> Perhaps it shall now work. Me hopes so.

If not, I think the next thing to do is to post the contents of your
"/etc/network/interfaces" file.

> As to the second thing, I'm not quite sure what you mean by "Use the
> corresponding entry in /etc/network/interfaces to ONLY do it.",
> specifically the "corresponding entry" and the "to ONLY do it.".

He means you've done something else, as indicated by his question "Also,
maybe in future you can explain a little more how you got pppoeconf to
'set up my ifconfig'..."

I, myself, have no experience with pppoeconf, so I don't know one way or
the other.

> (As an aside, I recently did another apt-get update and apt-get
> upgrade, just to see if there was any thing new. It told me I had
> twenty-nine not upgraded. But, I just put in KDE 3.4.1. So, I did
> apt-get -V upgrade and each package says: (3.3.2-1 => 3.4.1-1). Does
> this mean it will upgrade from 3.3.2 to 3.4.1 or down-grade from 3.4.1
> to 3.3.2? Thanks.)

As this is a different topic, I would recommend a different thread.
Otherwise, people who aren't paying attention to the "ifconfig" thread
will never see your question.

It means you'll upgrade the 3.3.2-1 KDE to 3.4.1-1. What makes you
believe you've "just put in KDE 3.4.1"? Perhaps you've installed it from
a third-party source? In that case, you probably both the pure Debian
version of 3.3.2-1 and the third-party version of 3.4.1 installed; the
upgrade will make them both 3.4.1, and you'll then have two versions
sucking up space on your drive. Of course, I'm making assumptions here.
your answer to my question above will help enlighten me (and others,
particularly if you move this question to a new thread that deals with
upgrading instead of with "ifconfig").

-- 
Kent


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Re: Disk Mirroring in Sarge howto

[Siju George]

On 6/13/05, Aurélien Campéas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Le lundi 13 juin 2005 à 12:58 +0530, Siju George a écrit :
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I would like to implement Disk mirroring ( Raid1 ) in Debian Sarge. Is
> > it possible to configure it while installation if I have both hard
> > disks attached??
> >
> > Could someone please tell me what is the easiest way ( steps ) to get
> > this done???
> >
> > I hope it will be easy because the Installer has an option to
> > configure software RAID but I a not able to get doing it successfully
> > :-(
> 
> Can you give more details about what's going on ? Without much, nobody
> will be able to help.
> 

Thankyou so much Aurélien for responding!

I have two hard disks 40 GB each! I want to have RAID 1 including the
/ partition and boot loader. ie if one hard disk goes down I should be
able to boot from the other one.

How do I configure it with the installer??

I want to have the following partitions in both the hard disk

/ - 500 MB - Primary
swap - 2 GB - Primary
/usr - 5 GB - Primary
/home - 500 MB - Logical
/tmp - 5 GB - Logical
/var/log - 5 GB -logical
/var - rest of the disk - logical

I prefer ext3 or ReiserFS for file systems.

How should I go about it??? is it possible to configure these
partitions in the first hard disk and finish the install and then
later do the mirroring? or is it possible to do the mirroring also
during the install???

Thankyou so much for the help :-)

kind regards

Siju

/

Actually I have two hard disks

Re: Top posting

[Kent West]

Hal Vaughan wrote:

>... And policy can be enforced anal retentively 
>

Is that why they're called analysts?  ;-)

-- 
Kent


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Re: can I use packages from dotdeb for Sarge???

[Siju George]

On 6/13/05, Roberto C. Sanchez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 06:01:41PM +0200, Aurélien Campéas wrote:
> > Le lundi 13 juin 2005 à 10:56 +0530, Siju George a écrit :
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Please let me know if it is all right to use LAMP packages from dotdeb
> > >
> > > http://dotdeb.org/
> > >
> > >  for Sarge?? Since it is a new distribution will it work properly??
> >
> > Why use those backports ? Sarge should come with everything you need
> > (esp. with respect to LAMP) and decently recent.
> >
> He may want PHP5 (which is not in Debian yet, at least officially).
> 
> > And no, the woody backports may not work properly on Sarge.
> >
> That is quite true.
> 

Thankyou so much Aurélien and Roberto :-) I messed up my system
installing them :-( going for a re-install of the whole system.

Kind regards

Siju

Using Cedega

[Romulo Sousa]

Hi folks,

I would like to run JediKnight Academy at my box cuz I don't wanna to
reboot it and load windows just for games. Speacially cuz it's
crashing all the time and I'm getting crazy with it.
The solution I found for games was Cedega. After some efforts for
finding a .deb package of cedega I could install it.
The problem now is that I can't run the game even mount my cdrom drive
at /mnt/cdrom.
I tried to run it both as root and also as a regular user. For the
first case I had the following message of error:

# cedega /mnt/cdrom/JediAcademy.exe
Your system requires the use of pthreads but the maximum system
allowed stack size of 2052 kB may be too small for some games.
If you experience problems, try rerunning with "-use-pthreads no"
which may help.
Moving all local fonts to /root/.transgaming_global/Fonts and removing
local Fonts directory
Xlib: connection to ":0.0" refused by server
Xlib: Invalid MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 key
x11drv: Can't open display: :0.0

Trying to satisfect the OS I typed:

# cedega -use-pthreads no /mnt/cdrom/JediAcademy.exe
Xlib: connection to ":0.0" refused by server
Xlib: Invalid MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 key
x11drv: Can't open display: :0.0

So I tried to run a different file:

# cedega -use-pthreads no /mnt/cdrom/autorun.exe
Xlib: connection to ":0.0" refused by server
Xlib: Invalid MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 key
x11drv: Can't open display: :0.0

As a regular use I got the following:

$ cedega /mnt/cdrom/JediAcademy.exe
Your system requires the use of pthreads but the maximum system
allowed stack size of 2052 kB may be too small for some games.
If you experience problems, try rerunning with "-use-pthreads no"
which may help.

and no return for the following:

$ cedega -use-pthreads no /mnt/cdrom/JediAcademy.exe


Since this game is supported by Cedega, I have no idea how I can
install it cuz it has 2 cd's. I've read things like "open two
terminals (Konsole in case you use KDE) and one of them must be root".

Anyway, I need some help here. Whatever docs should be welcome as well.

Best regards,

Romulo Sousa

Re: Sarge Upgrade DEBOCLE ! ! !

[Kent West]

Brian Kimsey-Hickman wrote:

>In any case this is the typescript from my last upgrade attempt.
>  
>
>Compt-113ws:/home/cpisbk1# apt-get dist-upgrade -f
>Reading Package Lists... Done
>Building Dependency Tree... Done
>Correcting dependencies... Done
>Calculating Upgrade... Done
>The following packages will be REMOVED:
>  xserver-rage128
>0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 1 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
>Need to get 0B of archives.
>After unpacking 2436kB disk space will be freed.
>Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y
>(Reading database ... 69800 files and directories currently installed.)
>Removing xserver-rage128 ...
>sed: can't read /etc/X11/Xserver: No such file or directory
>dpkg: error processing xserver-rage128 (--remove):
>  subprocess post-removal script returned error exit status 2
>Errors were encountered while processing:
>  xserver-rage128
>E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
>  
>
I would suggest the command "touch /etc/X11/Xserver" (to create this
file, thus "fooling" the remove script into doing what it wants),
followed by a repeat of "apt-get dist-upgrade -f".

-- 
Kent


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Re: Setting up PostgreSQL on Debian...

[John Hasler]

I get exactly the same error here.  The user I am running pgAccess as is a
PostgreSQL user.  When I run psql I can create the database and then open
it in pgAccess, but I can't create it in pgAccess.

Looks like a but.
-- 
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Re: Sarge Upgrade DEBOCLE ! ! !

[Carl Fink]

On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 09:48:27PM -0400, Brian Kimsey-Hickman wrote:

> You are absolutely right, please accept my apologies.  

Accepted.

I've been frantic and posted things I didn't mean in my time, myself.

[snip]

> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
>   xserver-rage128: Depends: xserver-common (>= 3.3.5) but it is not installed
> E: Unmet dependencies. Try using -f.
> Compt-113ws:/home/cpisbk1# apt-get dist-upgrade -f
> Reading Package Lists... Done
> Building Dependency Tree... Done
> Correcting dependencies... Done
> Calculating Upgrade... Done
> The following packages will be REMOVED:
>   xserver-rage128
> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 1 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
> Need to get 0B of archives.
> After unpacking 2436kB disk space will be freed.
> Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y
> (Reading database ... 69800 files and directories currently installed.)
> Removing xserver-rage128 ...
> sed: can't read /etc/X11/Xserver: No such file or directory
> dpkg: error processing xserver-rage128 (--remove):
>   subprocess post-removal script returned error exit status 2
> Errors were encountered while processing:
>   xserver-rage128
> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)

Have you considered "dpkg -r --force-remove-reinstreq --force-depends"? 
(You might try one of those options alone rather than both at once.)
-- 
Carl Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED]
If you attempt to fix something that isn't broken, it will be.
-Bruce Tognazzini


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Re: Sarge Upgrade DEBOCLE ! ! !

[Brian Kimsey-Hickman]

True, compared to other operating system upgrades this is not that
bad.  And no, I don't know if Slashdot reports the upgrade results of
other Linux distributions or other operating systems.  It just seems
to me that this release was not up to Debian standards.  I did not
experience anything like this when I upgraded from potato to woody.

And that xserver-rage128 is not third party.  It may be from a 2.1
version but this box is all Debian.  Maybe legacy Debain but Debian
never-the-less and nothing else.

Brian

On 6/13/05, Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Brian Kimsey-Hickman wrote:
> > I have mistakenly trusted the Debian community and upgraded to Sarge
> > and it is a DISASTER.
> >
> > HOW COULD YOU HAVE DONE THIS TO US ! ! !
> >
> > (Reading database ... 70119 files and directories currently installed.)
> > Removing xserver-rage128 ...
> > sed: can't read /etc/X11/Xserver: No such file or directory
> > dpkg: error processing xserver-rage128 (--remove):
> 
> How could we have not ever shipped a package named "xserver-rage128" but
> yet somehow enticed you to install some broken third-party package by that
> name onto your system, thus hosing your sarge upgrade? I really can't
> say.
> 
> > Slashdot has written how 30% of Sarge upgrades are failing.
> >
> > THIS IS INEXCUSABLE ! ! !
> 
> Has slashdot given any (similarly misquoted; I read the original post
> and that is not what it said; besides it was clearly an off-the-cuff
> estimate) statistics for upgrades for Debian woody, or any other version
> of linux?
> 
> --
> see shy jo
> 
> 
> BodyID:31584840.2.n.logpart (stored separately)
> 
>

Re: Sarge Upgrade DEBOCLE ! ! !

[Greg Madden]

On Monday 13 June 2005 04:31 pm, Tom Allison wrote:
> Brian Kimsey-Hickman wrote:
> > Help me please!
> >
> > I have mistakenly trusted the Debian community and upgraded to
> > Sarge and it is a DISASTER.
> >
> > HOW COULD YOU HAVE DONE THIS TO US ! ! !
>
> With a post like this, I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't get much
> help.  You're not exactly welcoming...
>
> I don't know why you used dselect to do this.
> I am pretty certain that you really don't want to use dselect when
> doing a distribution upgrade.  Did you read the very fine manual
> before upgrading?
>
> If not, then you might consider doing that now.
>
> However, if you are short on time and can't be bothered, you might
> attempt the following:
>
> Assumption:
> between your sources.list and preferences files you are choosing
> stable by default and that you have a sources.list that includes all
> the proper debian branches.
>
> apt-get autoclean;  this will clean up your cache directory, good
> thing to do every once in a while but no required.
>
> apt-get update;
>
> apt-get dist-upgrade
>
> This is the way you are supposed to do an upgrade of this type.  Not
> dselect.

I am not so dure about 'not' using dselect. It has been deprecated for 
aptitude but this does not mean it is a proper tool to do a version 
upgrade, which I believe it is.. a fine tool.

>
> If it doesn't work for you, start with an apt-get check to see what
> the status is.  Then you might be able to get some more useful
> information for people to use in order to help you get out of this
> jam.  help us to help you.
>
> However, if you continue to come off as "How can you do this to me"
> then enjoy being a pseudo-victim becuase you were the one who didn't
> read the fine manual.  Self Abuse is nothing we can be guilty of.

-- 
Greg Madden


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Re: Ifconfig

[David R. Litwin]

I have tried to modify the interfaces file before. I added precisely
what you told me to. It did not work. But, since I did a dist-upgrade
from Sarge to Stable Sarge, the file change. I have re-added it:
Perhaps it shall now work. Me hopes so.

As to the second thing, I'm not quite sure what you mean by "Use the
corresponding entry in /etc/network/interfaces to ONLY do it.",
specifically the "corresponding entry" and the "to ONLY do it.".

(As an aside, I recently did another apt-get update and apt-get
upgrade, just to see if there was any thing new. It told me I had
twenty-nine not upgraded. But, I just put in KDE 3.4.1. So, I did
apt-get -V upgrade and each package says: (3.3.2-1 => 3.4.1-1). Does
this mean it will upgrade from 3.3.2 to 3.4.1 or down-grade from 3.4.1
to 3.3.2? Thanks.)On 13/06/05, Paul Fraser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Tried what sort of thing? What didn't work?Because for once I'm going to take some sympathy, instead of doing the rightthing and trying to get you to learn how to do something, I'm going tospoon-feed you.
You want lo to come up at boot?Edit /etc/network/interfaces, add the following lines:auto loiface lo inet loopbackYou want PPP to only connect once? Disable any on-boot scripts that are
loading it (say, ppp) by doing a 'update-rc.d -f pppd remove'. Use thecorresponding entry in /etc/network/interfaces to ONLY do it. This keepseverything consistent, easy to manage, etc etc.Also, maybe in future you can explain a little more how you got pppoeconf to
'set up my ifconfig'...Cheers,Paul.From: David R. Litwin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Monday, 13 June 2005 3:49 PM
To: debian usersSubject: Re: IfconfigI tried that sort of thing. It didn't work. I've tried quite a few thingsand none of the worked. I really do need some one to tell me. Sorry.
-- —Moose Moose Jam Sausage Meow-Mix.—My Hover-Craft is Full of Eels.—[...]and that's the he and the she of it.

Re: sound problems with 2.6

[Colin]

Prasenjit Kapat wrote:
> My life was fine with a 2.4.25 kernel and 'sid' distro. I re-installed
> the entire system with the 2.6 kernel and 'sid' distro. Now I can not
> get my soundcards working. I have an onborad intel's integrated sound
> device, which was being recognised by i810_audio driver earlier and a
> creative labs' sound blaster 16 which was being recognised by es1371
> (ac97_codec).

I'm just assuming that you want to use ALSA now.  Install the "alsa-utils"
package and run "alsaconf"

I think these are the modules that you want to load (and alsaconf should
configure for you):

snd-ens1371
snd-intel8x0
snd-pcm-oss
snd-mixer-oss

A good idea would be to note all the modules before you run alsaconf (by
running "lspci | grep snd") and after running alsaconf.  Add any new
modules to your /etc/modules file.

Last, and certainly not least, run "alsamixergui" to set the volume levels
properly so that you'll actually hear something.


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Re: Sarge Upgrade DEBOCLE ! ! !

[Roberto C. Sanchez]

On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 08:31:18PM -0400, Tom Allison wrote:
> 
> apt-get autoclean;  this will clean up your cache directory, good thing to do 
> every once in a while but no required.
> 
> apt-get update;
> 
> apt-get dist-upgrade
> 
> This is the way you are supposed to do an upgrade of this type.  Not dselect.
> 

Please DO NOT do this!  The release notes explicitely state that
aptitude is the recommended tool for upgrading from Woody to Sarge.  It
handles the complex changes in dependencies between the two sitros
better than any other tool.

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sanchez
http://familiasanchez.net/~sanchezr


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Description: PGP signature

Re: Sarge Upgrade DEBOCLE ! ! !

[Brian Kimsey-Hickman]

Tom,

I have some Rat Hat servers I manage.  Usually, you can't upgrade
between major releases you have to do a complete re-installation. 
Kind of like that song they teach you at Microsoft.

fdisk, format, reinstall, du da, du da.

I might be suffering with Debian right now but its still better than
anything else out there commercial or not.

Thanks for the help,

Brian

Re: Top posting

[Hal Vaughan]

On Monday 13 June 2005 09:01 pm, Alex Malinovich wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-06-13 at 16:15 -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
> --snip--
>
> > It is a metaphor.  In both cases, groups have set themselves up as the
> > authority on what is right and wrong, whether it is a technical or moral
> > argument.
>
> Any pre-existing group dictates policy to newcomers. When I go into a
> new job, if they tell me to top post, I top post. When I go to a new
> mailing list, if they tell me to bottom post, I bottom post. If a new
> group doesn't specify how to post, I'll always bottom post since, in my
> opinion, it makes the thread easier to read. The point is that in any
> pre-existing group, the will of the group is 'right', and the will of
> the newcomer is irrelevant. This may not be 'fair', but it's the way the
> world works.

Yes, it does dictate policy.  And policy can be enforced anal retentively or 
with compassion.  I argue to avoid #1, and temper enforcement with #2.  If 
you've noticed, I inline post, and rarely top post.  I know that is how it is 
done, but the will of the group is not always right.  Where there is one, 
there is a majority of one, and if that person feels they have a point to 
make, it should be made.  For instance, the local country club used to have a 
"whites only" policy (this is in Richmond, VA).  One time Arthur Ashe (for 
those that don't remember, a famous and excellent tennis pro from Richmond) 
was back in Richmond and a friend brought him to the club to practice, and he 
was asked to leave.  That's group policy.  While there is a big difference 
between head-in-the-butt discrimination like that and top posting, the point 
is if someone feels there is a wrong, or a point that needs to be more 
closely examined, it should be examined.

> --snip--
>
> > the Earth or the Earth orbits the Sun.  What I've noticed is that those
> > in favor generally are saying understanding and tolerating different ways
> > is appropriate, while those against are saying, "this works, it makes
> > sense, and it's right," without opening the door (which I've mentioned a
> > few times) that many people process information in different ways.  I've
> > basically seen arguments that say that style makes it easy for one group
> > to read, so that makes it right.
>
> My response:
>
> "That's the most self-serving, self-centered, one-sided point of view
> I've read on any tech list in years."

Thank you.

My words have proven so important to you that you took the time out of your 
life to go back and look them up and re-use them.  So, before I say anything 
else, thank you for using your actions to pay me a compliment and let me know 
that at some level, what I wrote had such an impact that you remembered them, 
and took the time to look them up and quote them directly.

(Side note, ot, but which I mention to show just what kind of strong effect 
remembering someone else's words can have on them: I had a case once when I 
worked at Egghead for a short time, where an Asst. Manager came up to me, 
after a week, quoted something I said word for word and threatened me in 
front of a whole group.  I said, "So that one short sentence effected you so 
much that you've chosen to still be angry a week later? Just how much time 
have you spent thinking about my comment over the past week?"  He said 
something like, "A lot".  At that point, he didn't understand what was going 
on, but just realized he had "lost."  Everyone around ignored him from then 
on because it was so clear he had been obsessing over revenge for a trivial 
remark that was nothing more than basically putting him in his place as a 
clueless, rude, manipulating person in the first place.)

I'm making a point.  You can call it self serving or not.  I'm making an 
observation about a group of people responding to a specific thread.  When I 
originally used my words above, they were in reference to someone trashing 
all those involved in proprietary software.  There is a big difference: I 
have been able to observe all the people upon which I am commenting.  The 
person who originally commented on proprietary software was not able to 
observer anywhere near even 1% of that group and was creating a strongly 
negative stereotype based on observing, as I said, less than 1% of that 
group.

Is the statement true?  I feel there is enough evidence to say it is, 
otherwise I would not have said it.  Did the truth serve my point?  Yes, but 
I made a statement I could support, not one that was totally unsupportable.

> To illustrate the point:
>
> "What I've noticed is that those in favor [of top posting] generally are
> saying understanding and tolerating different ways is appropriate..."
>
> My response:
>
> So top posters are morally superior to bottom posters because they, by
> (your) definition, are open-minded. And bottom posters are morally
> inferior because they, by definition, are closed-minded.

Hmmm

I'm trying to find where I ever said they were morally superi

Re: Sarge Upgrade DEBOCLE ! ! !

[Marty]

Tom Allison wrote:

Brian Kimsey-Hickman wrote:

Help me please!



I don't know why you used dselect to do this.
I am pretty certain that you really don't want to use dselect when doing 
  a distribution upgrade.


I think you are wrong about that.

  Did you read the very fine manual before

upgrading?


I don't see anything there about not using dselect.


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Re: Newbie cannot start graphical desktop

[j Mak]

--- Jochen Schulz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> j Mak:
> > --- Jochen Schulz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > 
> > > Then do 'aptitude install xserver-xfree86' (and
> yes,
> > > 86 not 89). I am
> > > very sure it's on the first CD.
> > 
> > The “aptitude install xserver-xfree86” command
> worked.
> 
> Great.
> 
> > Now i have x window and kde up and running. 
> > But now i have other problems. I cannot use the
> text
> > editors because they cannot connect to the
> xserver.
> 
> You are trying to use X programs as root? Then you
> need the package
> 'sux' (aptitude install sux) and use that instead of
> su to become root.
> 
> > I also installed synaptic but i wont start.
> 
> Start it from a console as root (see above) and post
> the output.
> 
> > The Xfconfig4 badly configured my monitor. I just
> wonder, is it
> > possible to replace sarge's xfconfig4 with
> Knoppix? 
> 
> AFAIK that should work. Although the XF86Config is
> not too hard to
> understand and you'll probably need that knowledge
> anyway. You can also
> try running xf86cfg, it should ask you about your
> monitor.

Hi Jochen

Sux works great. I also replaced Sarge's xfconfig4
with Knoppix and my monitor  now perfectly configured.
Finally, everything works fine with Sarge . I would
like to thank for everyone who helped me in this
installation saga. I've learned a lot during the
process.

Debian community is the best. 

Regards,
jozsefmak

> -- 
> If I was a supermodel I would give all my cocaine to
> the socially
> excluded.
> [Agree]   [Disagree]
> 
>

> 


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


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Re: Sarge Upgrade DEBOCLE ! ! !

[Tom Allison]

Joey Hess wrote:

Brian Kimsey-Hickman wrote:


I have mistakenly trusted the Debian community and upgraded to Sarge
and it is a DISASTER.

HOW COULD YOU HAVE DONE THIS TO US ! ! !

(Reading database ... 70119 files and directories currently installed.)
Removing xserver-rage128 ...
sed: can't read /etc/X11/Xserver: No such file or directory
dpkg: error processing xserver-rage128 (--remove):



How could we have not ever shipped a package named "xserver-rage128" but
yet somehow enticed you to install some broken third-party package by that
name onto your system, thus hosing your sarge upgrade? I really can't
say.



No chance this is a 3.3.6 module?

If this is a third party, how do you get through this?

My experience with aptitude and merillat's dvd libs is that things just 
don't upgrade for a spell and then they do.  But everything has to be 
linked in the sources.list.  I guess pulling in your own without a 
sources.list reference requires a bit more skill.


Would aptitude show you these third party packages?


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Re: Sarge Upgrade DEBOCLE ! ! !

[Tom Allison]

Brian Kimsey-Hickman wrote:

Carl,

You are absolutely right, please accept my apologies.  Please believe,
I DON'T HATE YOU.  But the Slashdot article referenced Bill Allombert
in an article on the Australian ZDNet Site:

http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/0,261733,39196419,00.htm

I think there are some valid arguments there and should not be ignored
by the community.

And, nope I ran dselct on a Friday afternoon like I always do without
reading the release notes or anything.  I thought I only had to do
that with my Microsoft systems.  Didn't have a problem in four years
and didn't think I would have a problem this time.  And after I get
upgraded to Sarge I am sure I will not have to worry about it again.

In any case this is the typescript from my last upgrade attempt.



I didn't know about script.  Cool.

But don't trust everything you read on zdnet.  Some of these people like 
to write to hear themselves type...


If you really want to find out what's happening and are going to be very 
conservative about your upgrading.  Wait, watch the lists, and see what 
happens to other people.


I have seen very few messages about DEBACLE upgrades so far.  Much 
better than I've typically seen on SuSE/RHAT lists in the past.



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Re: Sarge Upgrade DEBOCLE ! ! !

[Tom Allison]

Brian Kimsey-Hickman wrote:


I do have a question though, what specifically are you referring to
when you say the "fine manual" ?  Is this the installation guide at:



RELEASE NOTES, section 4 might be a good place to start.


http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/install

or the Progeny User Guide at:


Definitely not.



http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/users-guide/users-guide.en.html

Or maybe some other source.  I have just not heard of the term "fine
manual" before.  But, you obviously know more about this than I do.

I did followed your advice and I am still getting the following error:

sed: can't read /etc/X11/Xserver: No such file or directory
dpkg: error processing xserver-rage128 (--remove):
  subprocess post-removal script returned error exit status 2
Errors were encountered while processing:
  xserver-rage128
E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)


I just cannot seem to be able to get the xserver-rage128 package out
of my system.

Any ideas?

Thanks for the help, sorry for the rant,



I found this as part of the installation bugs...

/etc/X11/Xserver is supposed to be a file, not a directory.
do a rm -rf /etc/X11/Xserver and then make /etc/X11/Xserver (a *file*)
have two lines:

so, is this a file or a dir?

I think there is a way to force an install/purge...
Assuming you don't need anything related to rage128 (version 3.3.6) you 
can be a little radical with it and try forcing the removal of this one 
package.


The safer approach would be find that package script and see exactly 
what it's failing on and why.


reportbug might be useful as well.


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Re: Top posting

[Paul Johnson]

On Monday June 13 2005 12:22 pm, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:04:41 -0700
>
> Steve Lamb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > (*ducks*)
> >
> > *tosses peanuts back at the gallery!*
>
> Ducks eat peanuts?

Yes, I've seen it.  At least the ducks I see around here will eat 
almost anything the gulls will and most of what the pigeons do 
(though we have something of a pigeon epidemic now).

-- 
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Email and Instant Messenger (Jabber): [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://ursine.ca/~baloo/


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Re: i think I switched to Etch without knowing it

[Colin]

Guillaume TESSIER wrote:
> By default, source.lists uses the naming "stable", "testing" and
> "unstable"; However, you can use instead "woody" or "sarge" that would
> be simlinks that will always point to the right directory, whatever of
> the eventual switch.

No, that's backwards.  "stable", "testing" and "unstable" are the symlinks
which "woody", "sarge" and "etch" are the real directories.


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Re: Sarge Upgrade DEBOCLE ! ! !

[Brian Kimsey-Hickman]

Yes, I did catch that subtlety.  But, I which manual?  There are
several you know.

Brian

On 6/13/05, Scarletdown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Brian Kimsey-Hickman wrote:
> 
> > Or maybe some other source.  I have just not heard of the term "fine
> > manual" before.  But, you obviously know more about this than I do.
> 
> That is the "polite" definition of RTFM.  :D
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Sarge Upgrade DEBOCLE ! ! !

[Joey Hess]

Brian Kimsey-Hickman wrote:
> I have mistakenly trusted the Debian community and upgraded to Sarge
> and it is a DISASTER.
> 
> HOW COULD YOU HAVE DONE THIS TO US ! ! !
> 
> (Reading database ... 70119 files and directories currently installed.)
> Removing xserver-rage128 ...
> sed: can't read /etc/X11/Xserver: No such file or directory
> dpkg: error processing xserver-rage128 (--remove):

How could we have not ever shipped a package named "xserver-rage128" but
yet somehow enticed you to install some broken third-party package by that
name onto your system, thus hosing your sarge upgrade? I really can't
say.

> Slashdot has written how 30% of Sarge upgrades are failing.  
> 
> THIS IS INEXCUSABLE ! ! !

Has slashdot given any (similarly misquoted; I read the original post
and that is not what it said; besides it was clearly an off-the-cuff
estimate) statistics for upgrades for Debian woody, or any other version
of linux?

-- 
see shy jo


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Re: Sarge Upgrade DEBOCLE ! ! !

[Scarletdown]

Brian Kimsey-Hickman wrote:


Or maybe some other source.  I have just not heard of the term "fine
manual" before.  But, you obviously know more about this than I do.


That is the "polite" definition of RTFM.  :D




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Re: Sarge Upgrade DEBOCLE ! ! !

[Brian Kimsey-Hickman]

Carl,

You are absolutely right, please accept my apologies.  Please believe,
I DON'T HATE YOU.  But the Slashdot article referenced Bill Allombert
in an article on the Australian ZDNet Site:

http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/0,261733,39196419,00.htm

I think there are some valid arguments there and should not be ignored
by the community.

And, nope I ran dselct on a Friday afternoon like I always do without
reading the release notes or anything.  I thought I only had to do
that with my Microsoft systems.  Didn't have a problem in four years
and didn't think I would have a problem this time.  And after I get
upgraded to Sarge I am sure I will not have to worry about it again.

In any case this is the typescript from my last upgrade attempt.

Compt-113ws:/home/cpisbk1# apt-get update
Hit http://http.us.debian.org stable/main Packages
Hit http://http.us.debian.org stable/main Release
Hit http://http.us.debian.org stable/non-free Packages
Hit http://http.us.debian.org stable/non-free Release
Hit http://http.us.debian.org stable/contrib Packages
Hit http://http.us.debian.org stable/contrib Release
Hit http://http.us.debian.org stable/main Sources
Hit http://http.us.debian.org stable/main Release
Hit http://http.us.debian.org stable/non-free Sources
Hit http://http.us.debian.org stable/non-free Release
Hit http://http.us.debian.org stable/contrib Sources
Hit http://http.us.debian.org stable/contrib Release
Hit http://non-us.debian.org stable/non-US/main Packages
Hit http://non-us.debian.org stable/non-US/main Release
Hit http://non-us.debian.org stable/non-US/contrib Packages
Hit http://non-us.debian.org stable/non-US/contrib Release
Hit http://non-us.debian.org stable/non-US/non-free Packages
Hit http://non-us.debian.org stable/non-US/non-free Release
Hit http://non-us.debian.org stable/non-US/main Sources
Hit http://non-us.debian.org stable/non-US/main Release
Hit http://non-us.debian.org stable/non-US/contrib Sources
Hit http://non-us.debian.org stable/non-US/contrib Release
Hit http://non-us.debian.org stable/non-US/non-free Sources
Hit http://non-us.debian.org stable/non-US/non-free Release
Reading Package Lists... Done
Compt-113ws:/home/cpisbk1# apt-get dist-upgrade
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
You might want to run `apt-get -f install' to correct these.
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
  xserver-rage128: Depends: xserver-common (>= 3.3.5) but it is not installed
E: Unmet dependencies. Try using -f.
Compt-113ws:/home/cpisbk1# apt-get dist-upgrade -f
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
Correcting dependencies... Done
Calculating Upgrade... Done
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  xserver-rage128
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 1 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 0B of archives.
After unpacking 2436kB disk space will be freed.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y
(Reading database ... 69800 files and directories currently installed.)
Removing xserver-rage128 ...
sed: can't read /etc/X11/Xserver: No such file or directory
dpkg: error processing xserver-rage128 (--remove):
  subprocess post-removal script returned error exit status 2
Errors were encountered while processing:
  xserver-rage128
E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Brian


On 6/13/05, Carl Fink <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 08:17:25PM -0400, Brian Kimsey-Hickman wrote:
> 
> > I have mistakenly trusted the Debian community and upgraded to Sarge
> > and it is a DISASTER.
> >
> > HOW COULD YOU HAVE DONE THIS TO US ! ! !
> 
> "I'd like your help, but first let me abuse you as unpaid volunteers.  I
> HATE YOU!  Please help me!"
> 
> Not the smartest or most courteous strategy.
> 
> Post the entire typescript of your upgrade session to the list.  You did
> read the Release Notes and use script to record everything you did, right?
> 
> > Slashdot has written how 30% of Sarge upgrades are failing.
> 
> Don't believe everything you read on Slashdot.
> --
> Carl Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Jabootu's Minister of Proofreading
> http://www.jabootu.com
> 
> 
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> 
>

Re: Setting up PostgreSQL on Debian...

[Clive Menzies]

On (13/06/05 17:45), Redefined Horizons wrote:
> I'm a little confused on this one.
> 
> I chose to install PostgreSQL during the installation of Debian Sarge.
> Both PostgreSQL and pgAccess were installed.
> 
> However, when I try to create a new database using pgAccess, I get the
> following error:
> 
> "Tcl error executing
> pg_exec create
> database test
> 
> is not a valid postgreSQL connection"
> 
> Do I need to set up a PostgreSQL user before I can use pgAccess to
> create a database? Do I need to do this from the command line? (I
> didn't see a menu or command to do so in pgAccess.) I've used
> PostgreSQL on Windows successfully, but I set up the users with the
> Microsoft Installer for PostgreSQL, and I'm not sure how to accomplish
> this on my Debian system.

Hi Scott

IANE (I'm no expert) however, I recently set up postgresql.

By default postgresql installs with 'postgres' as the only valid
user initially.  On the server you need to do:
$ su
(enter root passwd)
# su postgres
(no passwd required)
$ createdb test
$ psql test

You are then in postgresql and you can create users etc. you will need
to create yourself with CREATEDB privileges and possibly CREATEUSER
privileges also.  I recommend 'Postgresql Introduction and Concepts' by
Bruce Momjian (available online):
http://www.postgresql.org/files/documentation/books/aw_pgsql/

I also use 'Practical Postgresql' (O'Reilly)

Have fun!

Regards

Clive

-- 
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...strategies for business



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Re: Sarge Upgrade DEBOCLE ! ! !

[Brian Kimsey-Hickman]

Tom,

Please accept my apologies.  With having having to manage 8 different
operating systems including MS NT, 2000, 2003, Cisco IOS, Cisco CatOS,
Cisco PIX, and Red Hat Advanced Server, Debian has by far been the
best to manage and the easiest to upgrade.  I used dselect to upgrade
from potato to woody so I, apparently mistakenly, thought I could use
the same method this time around.

And yes, you are absolutely right, I SHOULD HAVE READ THE DOCUMENTATION

I do have a question though, what specifically are you referring to
when you say the "fine manual" ?  Is this the installation guide at:

http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/install

or the Progeny User Guide at:

http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/users-guide/users-guide.en.html

Or maybe some other source.  I have just not heard of the term "fine
manual" before.  But, you obviously know more about this than I do.

I did followed your advice and I am still getting the following error:

sed: can't read /etc/X11/Xserver: No such file or directory
dpkg: error processing xserver-rage128 (--remove):
  subprocess post-removal script returned error exit status 2
Errors were encountered while processing:
  xserver-rage128
E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)


I just cannot seem to be able to get the xserver-rage128 package out
of my system.

Any ideas?

Thanks for the help, sorry for the rant,

Brian



On 6/13/05, Tom Allison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Brian Kimsey-Hickman wrote:
> > Help me please!
> >
> > I have mistakenly trusted the Debian community and upgraded to Sarge
> > and it is a DISASTER.
> >
> > HOW COULD YOU HAVE DONE THIS TO US ! ! !
> >
> 
> With a post like this, I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't get much
> help.  You're not exactly welcoming...
> 
> I don't know why you used dselect to do this.
> I am pretty certain that you really don't want to use dselect when doing
>   a distribution upgrade.  Did you read the very fine manual before
> upgrading?
> 
> If not, then you might consider doing that now.
> 
> However, if you are short on time and can't be bothered, you might
> attempt the following:
> 
> Assumption:
> between your sources.list and preferences files you are choosing stable
> by default and that you have a sources.list that includes all the proper
> debian branches.
> 
> apt-get autoclean;  this will clean up your cache directory, good thing
> to do every once in a while but no required.
> 
> apt-get update;
> 
> apt-get dist-upgrade
> 
> This is the way you are supposed to do an upgrade of this type.  Not
> dselect.
> 
> If it doesn't work for you, start with an apt-get check to see what the
> status is.  Then you might be able to get some more useful information
> for people to use in order to help you get out of this jam.  help us to
> help you.
> 
> However, if you continue to come off as "How can you do this to me" then
> enjoy being a pseudo-victim becuase you were the one who didn't read the
> fine manual.  Self Abuse is nothing we can be guilty of.
>

Re: Top posting

[Alex Malinovich]

On Mon, 2005-06-13 at 16:15 -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
--snip--
> It is a metaphor.  In both cases, groups have set themselves up as the 
> authority on what is right and wrong, whether it is a technical or moral 
> argument.

Any pre-existing group dictates policy to newcomers. When I go into a
new job, if they tell me to top post, I top post. When I go to a new
mailing list, if they tell me to bottom post, I bottom post. If a new
group doesn't specify how to post, I'll always bottom post since, in my
opinion, it makes the thread easier to read. The point is that in any
pre-existing group, the will of the group is 'right', and the will of
the newcomer is irrelevant. This may not be 'fair', but it's the way the
world works.

--snip--
> the Earth or the Earth orbits the Sun.  What I've noticed is that those in 
> favor generally are saying understanding and tolerating different ways is 
> appropriate, while those against are saying, "this works, it makes sense, and 
> it's right," without opening the door (which I've mentioned a few times) that 
> many people process information in different ways.  I've basically seen 
> arguments that say that style makes it easy for one group to read, so that 
> makes it right. 

My response:

"That's the most self-serving, self-centered, one-sided point of view
I've read on any tech list in years."

To illustrate the point:

"What I've noticed is that those in favor [of top posting] generally are
saying understanding and tolerating different ways is appropriate..."

My response:

So top posters are morally superior to bottom posters because they, by
(your) definition, are open-minded. And bottom posters are morally
inferior because they, by definition, are closed-minded.

Side note:

"Hi, pot.  This is kettle."

--snip--
> Information processing is also quite subjective.  I learned that in a decade 
> of dealing with the learning disabled.  That's the point I've been driving 
> toward for this whole thread, but everyone that has one way of looking at 
> things is so sure they are right, they are literally unable to see another 
> point of view, or even dare to consider it.

Disclaimer:

Just to stress one point before I get any further into this, the above
is NOT a flame. It's a semi-gentle poking fun at. :) As you may have
noticed by my first post in this thread (top vs bottom posting ==
proprietary vs free software users == self-centered vs group-oriented),
I like to make exaggerated points. I no more think that ALL proprietary
software users are evil than I think that your above points illustrate
your lack of intellect and utter lack of contribution to this thread.

Your posts thus far have shown that you are certainly intelligent (you
must be, you do use Debian after all :), and that you are (most of the
time at least) contributing very important and reasonably objective
information.

Response:

I've been following this thread pretty intently since the beginning, but
this is only my 2nd (relevant) post in it as I've have been busy
observing. I'd rather be thought a fool than open my mouth and remove
all doubt. :)

I think a very important point to make here is that you (among others)
are fighting the wrong battle. Most everyone in the thread just keeps
bringing up top vs bottom posting over and over again.

I think the real issue, and the one that gets briefly brought up and
then promptly forgotten, is posting in context. That is, trimming,
quoting, and replying. Top posting is, at best, not conducive to in-line
quoting and replying, and at worst completely incompatible with it.
Bottom posting is certainly conducive to in-line quoting, though it
certainly does not directly cause it. By the definition of top-posting,
_IF_ someone was, in fact, using in-line quoting with their preferred
posting style, their responses would PRECEDE each quote.

If an individual places text at the top of an email, and then proceeds
to use in-line quoting thereafter, that person is bottom-posting because
the response FOLLOWS the quote.

One final point to make here is that, from a human (not technical)
standpoint, replies to messages should be sent in a format that will
convey the content of the message to the recipient in the most efficient
manner. If your recipient is more comfortable with, and therefore more
efficient at processing top-posted material, then reply in a top-posted
fashion or vice versa. The first rule of communication is that the
content of your message is irrelevant if you cannot convey it to your
audience. If I have to tell you the meaning of life, and you understand
none of the languages that I speak, the importance of my message is
completely irrelevant. And if you will not be able to comprehend any
message which is not top-posted, then it is my responsibility to
top-post when communicating with you. (If, in fact, I give a damn about
getting my message across.)

Wow... that stretched out much longer than I expected... we now return
you to your regularly scheduled deba

Do I need to download and use the older package?

[Redefined Horizons]

Quick question on package management in Debian Sarge.

I tried to install glade-2 using both Synaptic and apt. I get an error
message regarding the glade-common package. Synaptic and apt lists the
glade-common package as version 2.6.8-2, gut the error message
indicates that I need 2.6.8-2 to intall glade-2. This confused me, as
I'm guessing glade-common-2.6.8-2 is an older package, not the newer.
Is it possible the glade-2 installation requires the older
glade-common package? Can I force it to use the newer without
problems? Or do I need to download the older package.

Thanks,

Scott

Re: Sarge Upgrade DEBOCLE ! ! !

[Carl Fink]

On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 08:17:25PM -0400, Brian Kimsey-Hickman wrote:

> I have mistakenly trusted the Debian community and upgraded to Sarge
> and it is a DISASTER.
> 
> HOW COULD YOU HAVE DONE THIS TO US ! ! !

"I'd like your help, but first let me abuse you as unpaid volunteers.  I
HATE YOU!  Please help me!"

Not the smartest or most courteous strategy.
 
Post the entire typescript of your upgrade session to the list.  You did
read the Release Notes and use script to record everything you did, right?

> Slashdot has written how 30% of Sarge upgrades are failing.  

Don't believe everything you read on Slashdot.
--  
Carl Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jabootu's Minister of Proofreading
http://www.jabootu.com


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Setting up PostgreSQL on Debian...

[Redefined Horizons]

I'm a little confused on this one.

I chose to install PostgreSQL during the installation of Debian Sarge.
Both PostgreSQL and pgAccess were installed.

However, when I try to create a new database using pgAccess, I get the
following error:

"Tcl error executing
pg_exec create
database test

is not a valid postgreSQL connection"

Do I need to set up a PostgreSQL user before I can use pgAccess to
create a database? Do I need to do this from the command line? (I
didn't see a menu or command to do so in pgAccess.) I've used
PostgreSQL on Windows successfully, but I set up the users with the
Microsoft Installer for PostgreSQL, and I'm not sure how to accomplish
this on my Debian system.

I searched the web for a tutorial, but the one I found was rather
confusing and had to deal with setting up PostgreSQL for a web server.

I appreciate any help.

Thanks,

Scott

Re: Request for window manager recommendations

[Tom Allison]

Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:


And just as good if you do maximize windows -- like me. I usually
have one to four maximized windows on each of 10 desktops.

What I like most about WindowMaker is its configurability. Recent
versions of KDE have, perhaps, caught up with it.



That may be, but there's a lot of memory footprint difference.


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Re: Request for window manager recommendations

[Tom Allison]

Cam wrote:

Hi,



Ditto on WMaker.  The big thing that drew me to it was the fond memories
I had of using NeXTStep on some NeXT machines in high school.  It truly
was a joy to use.  I must say that WMaker does an outstanding job of
replicating the interface.



WindowMaker is the best... it doesn't seem to be under development
anymore though... am i wrong?

Cameron Matheson



I think you are wrong.
10/26/2004 was their last product release.
I would say they are still active.  Mailing lists seem alive.  Last post 
was June 11.



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Re: spamassassin bayesian - db format

[Robert Storey]

On Monday 13 June 2005 21:21, Chris Searle wrote:
> Old woody system - the bayes files for spamassassin give the
> following:
>
> $ file *
> bayes_seen: Berkeley DB (Hash, version 5, native byte-order)
> bayes_toks: Berkeley DB (Hash, version 5, native byte-order)
>
> New sarge system - perl's Tie::DB was failing - so I allowed it to
> create new - returning
>
> $ file *
> bayes_seen: Berkeley DB (Hash, version 8, native byte-order)
> bayes_toks: Berkeley DB (Hash, version 8, native byte-order)
>
> Now - that's a lot of learning that's been going thru - is there an
> easy way to convert from version 5 to version 8 ?

I'm not sure, but see "man sa-learn", especially the part about the "backup" 
and "restore" options.

regards,
Robert


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Re: Request for window manager recommendations

[Tom Allison]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Have just finished installing sarge (am a first-time debian user, very
impressed), and now am chosing a window manager. I have fond memories
of using a little-known WM called VTWM on SunOS, but that was almost 10
years ago now. I'm guessing the are other, at least equally noteworthy
WM's around.

Not so keen on KDE/GNOME because as I understand they are somewhat
CPU-intensive and take longer to load than the traditional WMs.

A personal recommendation of your favourite window manager would be
much appreciated.

Thanks for your attention,
Herminio Gonzalez




I would like to recommend WindowMaker (wmaker).

It's extremely fast, light on RAM, and although not really what they 
call a Desktop Environment, I can't find much of anything it can't do. 
IIRC it takes about 4MB RAM when loaded, so you can imagine how fast it 
will run and load on your machine.


Anecdotally, my wife and 2 kids have all abandoned Gnome and KDE for 
WMaker as their interface of choice.


Another one that I've heard about is xfce but I didn't think that much 
of it.  Although nice, it didn't offer enough for me to consider moving.



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Re: Sarge Upgrade DEBOCLE ! ! !

[Craig Russell]

Brian Kimsey-Hickman wrote:


Help me please!

I have mistakenly trusted the Debian community and upgraded to Sarge
and it is a DISASTER.

HOW COULD YOU HAVE DONE THIS TO US ! ! !

(Reading database ... 70119 files and directories currently installed.)
Removing xserver-rage128 ...
sed: can't read /etc/X11/Xserver: No such file or directory
dpkg: error processing xserver-rage128 (--remove):
 subprocess post-removal script returned error exit status 2
Errors were encountered while processing:
 xserver-rage128
E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
Some errors occurred while unpacking. I'm going to configure the
packages that were installed. This may result in duplicate errors
or errors caused by missing dependencies. This is OK, only the errors
above this message are important. Please fix them and run [I]nstall again
Press enter to continue.
installation script returned error exit status 100.
Press  to continue.

I have ties "-", "_",  "=" in dselect to no avial.

How can I fix this?

Slashdot has written how 30% of Sarge upgrades are failing.  


THIS IS INEXCUSABLE ! ! !

Thanks,

Brian



 

Ummm...  I'm a relative newbie to the debian world, but I've got to 
admit that I've found it to be more stable than many "commercial" 
software packages, both of the windoze variety as well as commercial 
unix packages (supported SunOs, Solaris2.x, and HP-ux 11.x).  I've also 
found the "Debian Community" to be as helpful as "paid" support that 
I've had in the past.


Of course, this has nothing to do with your quesion/problem but I just 
thought that I would point out that no one is paying the "Debian 
Community" to put out this product and insulting the "Debian Community" 
certainly isn't going to get you any closer to a solution.


Craig Russell
AirDigitalNetwork.com


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Re: Sarge Upgrade DEBOCLE ! ! !

[Tom Allison]

Brian Kimsey-Hickman wrote:

Help me please!

I have mistakenly trusted the Debian community and upgraded to Sarge
and it is a DISASTER.

HOW COULD YOU HAVE DONE THIS TO US ! ! !



With a post like this, I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't get much 
help.  You're not exactly welcoming...


I don't know why you used dselect to do this.
I am pretty certain that you really don't want to use dselect when doing 
 a distribution upgrade.  Did you read the very fine manual before 
upgrading?


If not, then you might consider doing that now.

However, if you are short on time and can't be bothered, you might 
attempt the following:


Assumption:
between your sources.list and preferences files you are choosing stable 
by default and that you have a sources.list that includes all the proper 
debian branches.


apt-get autoclean;  this will clean up your cache directory, good thing 
to do every once in a while but no required.


apt-get update;

apt-get dist-upgrade

This is the way you are supposed to do an upgrade of this type.  Not 
dselect.


If it doesn't work for you, start with an apt-get check to see what the 
status is.  Then you might be able to get some more useful information 
for people to use in order to help you get out of this jam.  help us to 
help you.


However, if you continue to come off as "How can you do this to me" then 
enjoy being a pseudo-victim becuase you were the one who didn't read the 
fine manual.  Self Abuse is nothing we can be guilty of.



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Re: Request for window manager recommendations

[Eric P]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


Have just finished installing sarge (am a first-time debian user, very
impressed), and now am chosing a window manager. I have fond memories
of using a little-known WM called VTWM on SunOS, but that was almost 10
years ago now. I'm guessing the are other, at least equally noteworthy
WM's around.

Not so keen on KDE/GNOME because as I understand they are somewhat
CPU-intensive and take longer to load than the traditional WMs.

A personal recommendation of your favourite window manager would be
much appreciated.



My favorite has always been icewm.
Very fast, and simple, but very configurable.

I second that.  Everything can be done on the keyboard, and it's quick 
to start up.


Every so often, I'll pop into something else (gnome, xfce, kde (ugh) rat 
poisen as of late), but I always come back to IceWM and the grin returns.


EP


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Sarge Upgrade DEBOCLE ! ! !

[Brian Kimsey-Hickman]

Help me please!

I have mistakenly trusted the Debian community and upgraded to Sarge
and it is a DISASTER.

HOW COULD YOU HAVE DONE THIS TO US ! ! !

(Reading database ... 70119 files and directories currently installed.)
Removing xserver-rage128 ...
sed: can't read /etc/X11/Xserver: No such file or directory
dpkg: error processing xserver-rage128 (--remove):
  subprocess post-removal script returned error exit status 2
Errors were encountered while processing:
  xserver-rage128
E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
Some errors occurred while unpacking. I'm going to configure the
packages that were installed. This may result in duplicate errors
or errors caused by missing dependencies. This is OK, only the errors
above this message are important. Please fix them and run [I]nstall again
Press enter to continue.
installation script returned error exit status 100.
Press  to continue.

I have ties "-", "_",  "=" in dselect to no avial.

How can I fix this?

Slashdot has written how 30% of Sarge upgrades are failing.  

THIS IS INEXCUSABLE ! ! !

Thanks,

Brian

Re: woody->sarge failed: out pf disk space

[Stephen Patterson]

On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 17:30:11 +0200, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> After 18 hours of upgrading on my very slow 100 MHz Pentium,
> it ended up producing an unending stream of
> 
> multilog: warning: unable to write to /var/log/svscan/current. pausing: out 
> of disk space

The few times I've run out of space on an upgrade, repeated calls of
'apt-get clean' followed by 'aptitude upgrade' have sorted things out
well enough. If you run apt-get clean, that'll delete all the .deb
files that have been downloaded to your system and free up quite a bit
of space (especially for a major upgrade).

-- 
Stephen Patterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://patter.mine.nu/  
Linux Counter No: 142831 GPG Public key: E3E8E974
"Whoever said nothing is impossible never tried slamming a revolving door."
  -- Melissa O'Brien


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Re: X.org

[Tom Allison]

John Hasler wrote:

Michel Di Croci writes:

How much devs are currently developping debian? 



Most of us don't know enough about X to be any use.  Of those that do some
have chosen to participate in the X team.  No one assigns jobs to Debian
developers.


Volunteer organizations... you get what you pay for.
If you don't like it, you can get your money back.

But the really great thing is that since no one is "directed" they tend 
to go where their passions lie.  Better quality product that way.



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Re: fluxbox application switching panel

[Stephen Patterson]

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 18:31:56 +0200, Andras Lorincz wrote:
> I googled but could not find out how to make fluxbox show a switching
> panel when using alt-tab 

It doesn't do that.

> and also could not find out how to switch to
> minimized windows with alt-tab.

You need to configure the iconbar (right-click) to show minimized and
non-minimized windows, then you should be able to switch any window
with alt-tab.

-- 
Stephen Patterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://patter.mine.nu/  
Linux Counter No: 142831 GPG Public key: E3E8E974
"Whoever said nothing is impossible never tried slamming a revolving door."
  -- Melissa O'Brien


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Re: Debian Sarge DVD Download Limit?

[Anders Breindahl]

On Tuesday 14 June 2005 00:13, Glyn Tebbutt wrote:
> I've never tried jigdo, what's the speed like?
> I was aware of the bug, the ie server doesn't seem to have those image's
> , ill search around, i dont really want to download cd images as ive got
> a dvd burner, might as well make use of it :)

As jigdo uses the packages-servers, the bandwidth should be more than enough.

Since you seem concerned about speeding up the download-process, I suggest you 
use a smaller image, and then download the packages on-demand, afterwards. 
It'd save Debian a lot of traffic.
That is, you can probably easily cope with CD1 and an Internet connection 
after the initial install.

I personally have never used the second DVD of any two-DVD set I've downloaded 
anyway.

Regards, Anders Breindahl.


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Re: Debian Sarge DVD Download Limit?

[peter colton]

On Monday 13 June 2005 23:13, Glyn Tebbutt wrote:
> Steve McIntyre wrote:
> > Glyn Tebbutt wrote:
> >>Hi everyone
> >>I'm having problem's downloading the sarge dvd's. Im trying
> >>http://ftp.ie.debian.org/debian-cd/3.1_r0/i386/iso-dvd/debian-31r0-i386-b
> >>inary-1.iso but wget stops at 320mb. Same happen's with Firefox. Is there
> >> any way around this? I know this has been asked before and someone
> >> recommended lftp but I still had the same problem.
> >
> > Two things:
> >
> >  1) give up on the 3.1_r0 images - they've been superseded by 3.1_r0a
> > after a bug was found.
> >  2) downloading a DVD-sized image can be broken by bugs in HTTP large
> > file support at either end. Even if the tools at your end are
> > 64-bit capable, the apache on ftp.ie.debian.org may not be. I'd
> > recommend trying jigdo/bittorrent instead if you can.
>
> I've never tried jigdo, what's the speed like?
> I was aware of the bug, the ie server doesn't seem to have those image's
> , ill search around, i dont really want to download cd images as ive got
> a dvd burner, might as well make use of it :)
>
> --
> ++
>
> | Glyn Tebbutt |   [EMAIL PROTECTED] : email |
> |--+  http://www.plasticmongoose.com : www |
> | http://www.plasticmongoose.com/misc/d3c3it.asc : gpg |
> |
> | "Damn you, vile woman! You've impeded my work since  |
> | the day I escaped from your wretched womb." - Stewie |
>
> ++

hello Glyn,

Are you behind a router, if so open port 1 to 10005 
on the router and 
port forward this port set  to  the box you will be using to bittorent on to. 
The bittorent box would be better set up to have a stactic ip. All so the 
bittorent client needs its ports setting up the same as the router 
1 to 10005

   again all the best

peter colton


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Re: Debian Sarge DVD Download Limit?

[Steve McIntyre]

Glyn Tebbutt wrote:
>
>Hi everyone
>I'm having problem's downloading the sarge dvd's. Im trying
>http://ftp.ie.debian.org/debian-cd/3.1_r0/i386/iso-dvd/debian-31r0-i386-binary-1.iso
>but wget stops at 320mb. Same happen's with Firefox. Is there any way
>around this? I know this has been asked before and someone recommended
>lftp but I still had the same problem.

Two things:

 1) give up on the 3.1_r0 images - they've been superseded by 3.1_r0a
after a bug was found.
 2) downloading a DVD-sized image can be broken by bugs in HTTP large
file support at either end. Even if the tools at your end are
64-bit capable, the apache on ftp.ie.debian.org may not be. I'd
recommend trying jigdo/bittorrent instead if you can.

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.[EMAIL PROTECTED]
There's no sensation to compare with this
Suspended animation, A state of bliss


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Re: changing from unstable to testing

[Bob Proulx]

Anton Bretterklieber wrote:
> I'm using linux from mepis.org. (a mix of unstable and testing)
> What is the best way to change from unstable back to testing?
> New installation?

Downgrades have no official support.  It is too hard of a problem.  I
would probably stick where you are unless you have a specific reason
for moving.  However you can manually downgrade if you take care doing
so.  But this is not for the faint of heart.

Install apt-show-versions.  This will help with the inspection and
that is safe for anyone.

  apt-get install apt-show-versions

Change /etc/apt/sources.list to point to sarge and apt-get update.
Then find a list of all packages that are installed that are newer
than what is available in the archive.

  apt-show-versions --initialize
  apt-show-versions | 'newer than version in archive'

Hopefully that list is small.  Get the exact version for each of those
packages.  Something like the following should work.  Save this output
to a file.

  for p in $(apt-show-versions | grep 'newer' | awk '{print$1}');do dpkg 
--status $p | echo $p=$(awk '/Version:/{print$NF;exit}'); done

Now that you have a list of all of the packages which are newer on
your machine than in the archive you can force a downgrade of those.
The format of the output is exactly what apt expects.  But THIS IS
COMPLETELY UNTESTED and I take no responsibility if you break your
system!

  apt-get install $(

signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: Wireless networking issues -- Netgear WG311T and Sarge with kernel 2.6.8

[Angelina Carlton]

On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 11:43:25PM +0200, Tim Kynerd wrote:

> On advice I got from alt.os.linux.debian, I just now installed the 2.6.8 
> kernel and tried again. Now there is an interface called "ath0" (the 
> wireless card has an Atheros chipset, hence the name of the interface), 
> but somehow it doesn't seem to be connected to the hardware -- among 
> other things, there are messages coming through during boot where the 
> system tries to initialize the ath0 interface, but it says, "No such 
> device"; and when I open the graphical "Networking" tool and try to 
> activate the ath0 interface, the first attempt fails (the interface is 
> immediately deactivated again), and the second attempt locks up the 
> Networking tool. Oops.
> 
> And there's no /proc/pci file under this kernel, so I can't check that.
> 
> Any advice on resolving this?
> 

Hi Tim,

I have that card running on Debian and a 2.6.8 kernel
The drivers should show in lsmod:

$lsmod | grep ath

ath_pci56096  0
ath_rate_onoe   8584  1 ath_pci
wlan  106588  4 wlan_wep,ath_pci,ath_rate_onoe
ath_hal   148560  2 ath_pci

If not you need to install them... (do this as root)

I followed the instructions from this site:
http://www.packetpro.com/~peterson/linux-netgear_wg311t_pci.html

First download with cvs:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# cvs -z3 -d:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvsroot/madwifi co 
madwifi

build:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# cd madwifi
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# make
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# make install

load the modules:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# /sbin/modprobe wlan
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# /sbin/modprobe ath_hal
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# /sbin/modprobe ath_pci

Then edit /etc/network/interfaces to look like:

# This file describes the network interfaces available on your system
# and how to activate them. For more information, see interfaces(5).

# The loopback network interface
auto lo
iface lo inet loopback

# The primary network interface
#auto eth0
#iface eth0 inet dhcp

# wg311t wireless card (new primary card)
auto ath0
iface ath0 inet dhcp
wireless-essid  SOMEESSIDNAME
wireless-channel 6
wireless-key SOMESECRETKEY



once /etc/network/interfaces has been edited, bring up the network:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# /sbin/ifconfig ath0 up

This is assuming you have dhcp of course, if not: man interfaces :-)

good luck!

-- 
Angelina Carlton


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Re: Request for window manager recommendations

[Thomas Adam]

--- Simon Huggins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> satisfies my requirements well.  I wouldn't have put so much time
> into
> fixing up the packages for Debian if I didn't think it was useful.

That's nice that you spend time on it -- and if it suits you, then all
well and good.  When I used it, it seemed to crash a lot, and offered
not a lot in terms of focus or placement policies in comparsion to
other WMs (and some DEs).  But I can see why people like it.

-- Thomas Adam





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Re: Debian Sarge DVD Download Limit?

[Glyn Tebbutt]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Steve McIntyre wrote:
> Glyn Tebbutt wrote:
> 
>>Hi everyone
>>I'm having problem's downloading the sarge dvd's. Im trying
>>http://ftp.ie.debian.org/debian-cd/3.1_r0/i386/iso-dvd/debian-31r0-i386-binary-1.iso
>>but wget stops at 320mb. Same happen's with Firefox. Is there any way
>>around this? I know this has been asked before and someone recommended
>>lftp but I still had the same problem.
> 
> 
> Two things:
> 
>  1) give up on the 3.1_r0 images - they've been superseded by 3.1_r0a
> after a bug was found.
>  2) downloading a DVD-sized image can be broken by bugs in HTTP large
> file support at either end. Even if the tools at your end are
> 64-bit capable, the apache on ftp.ie.debian.org may not be. I'd
> recommend trying jigdo/bittorrent instead if you can.
> 
I've never tried jigdo, what's the speed like?
I was aware of the bug, the ie server doesn't seem to have those image's
, ill search around, i dont really want to download cd images as ive got
a dvd burner, might as well make use of it :)

- --
++
| Glyn Tebbutt |   [EMAIL PROTECTED] : email |
|--+  http://www.plasticmongoose.com : www   |
| http://www.plasticmongoose.com/misc/d3c3it.asc : gpg   |
||
| "Damn you, vile woman! You've impeded my work since|
| the day I escaped from your wretched womb." - Stewie   |
++
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFCrgT7MmCtbXGg1+4RArq6AKDb2+WsR7NRUFAz2kMVrUggymppRQCeKlXD
vShjRuvNqQu81baBi5Rkka8=
=xYGQ
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: ALSA sound card driver problem

[Thomas Hood]

On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 20:00:20 +0200, Peter J Ross wrote:
> I suggest reading the man page for alsactl. Basically, you want to run
> "alsactl store" once (after running alsaconf) and then "alsactl
> restore" automatically on each reboot.


If you install alsa-base then sound levels will be restored from a file
after reboot.  To store the sound levels in the file, run "alsactl store".

-- 
Thomas Hood


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Re: Apache2/PHP permissions in ISP environment

[Ugo Bellavance]

Simon wrote:
> Hi there, we are running debian sarge for a virtual hosting box. PHP
> safe mode is on for all users with a host of other php_admin_values etc.
> We are running name based virtual hosting for all hosts except SSL hosts
> which have their own IP... We are using pureftpd for our FTP server,
> with the u/p in a mysql database and chrooting the users in their dir.
> 
> Currently the server runs as the debian default of www-data.www-data..
> and the users are all loggin in as www-client(1000).www-data..
> 
> So, when PHP creates a file 'test.txt' (www-data.www-data), a script
> uploaded via FTP 'alterfile.php' (www-clients.www-data) cant
> change/delete the generated file 'test.txt'.
> 
> i have setup the users etc up like that as the users FTP into a
> directory: /www/www.exmaple.com/, in that dir there are: backups/,
> htdocs/, logs/, statistics/, ssl/. they can read everything, but only
> write to htdocs/.
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get around the above problem?
> 
> How do i allow users to create files (with PHP) with the user of
> www-data, but still restrict some other directorys from writing?
> 
> Is this a bad thing in the first place?
> 
> Simon
> 
> 

I think you should try posting to the php list instead...


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Re: Request for window manager recommendations

[Simon Huggins]

On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 07:09:00PM +0100, Thomas Adam wrote:
> --- Simon Huggins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Does that mean that xfce4 is a good compromise then between both of
> > these concepts given you can install as many or as few of the
> > components as you like once you have the basic libraries installed?
> > ;)
> In that sense, then perhaps.  But XFCE4's only good thing is that it
> has plenty of eye-candy.  You can't do a thing with it other than
> that.

I understand that a window manager/desktop environment is a personal
choice but saying you can't do a thing with it is just wrong; it
satisfies my requirements well.  I wouldn't have put so much time into
fixing up the packages for Debian if I didn't think it was useful.

-- 
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 | |
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Re: Request for window manager recommendations

[Simon Huggins]

On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 02:00:18PM -0500, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:

Do you have a real name?  I always like to know who I'm talking to.

> On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 17:56:46 +0100
> Simon Huggins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Does that mean that xfce4 is a good compromise then between both of
> > these concepts given you can install as many or as few of the
> > components as you like once you have the basic libraries installed? ;)
> Having been a loyal IceWM user since Potato was new I recently
> switched to Xfce4 to see what it could do for me.  Well, IceWM has
> /never/ crashed on me in all that time.  Last week Xfce4 crashed on me
> five times.  Other than that, yes, it's a good compromise*.  I've gone
> back to the tried and true IceWM.

How did you manage that?  The panel plugins aren't sandboxed which can
cause problems if the plugins have bugs.  Which ones did you have
installed?

I must admit I didn't see your bug report in the BTS despite getting all
of them for all the packages.  Perhaps you can point me at it?

Simon.

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Black Cat Networks.  http://www.blackcatnetworks.co.uk/


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Wireless networking issues -- Netgear WG311T and Sarge with kernel 2.6.8

[Tim Kynerd]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to Debian, but not to Linux -- I've run SuSE Linux for about 
seven years, but decided to try Debian hoping it might possibly have 
better support for wireless networking. So far, that doesn't quite seem 
to be the case -- but in some other respects I like Debian, so I'd like 
to get the networking thing resolved if possible.


I bought a Netgear WG311T wireless card. The access point is an Apple 
Airport Express, but that doesn't seem to be relevant to the problem I'm 
experiencing at this point.


SuSE seemed to be having problems connecting when security (WEP or WPA, 
didn't seem to matter) was enabled, but everything was fine when I 
turned off security.


When I got fed up with this, I decided to download Debian and give it a 
try. I downloaded it this past weekend and burned it to two DVDs. The 
install went pretty smoothly, except that the 2.4.27 kernel was 
installed initially, and no interface was even created for the wireless 
card, although I checked /proc/pci and the card was identified in there 
as a NIC.


On advice I got from alt.os.linux.debian, I just now installed the 2.6.8 
kernel and tried again. Now there is an interface called "ath0" (the 
wireless card has an Atheros chipset, hence the name of the interface), 
but somehow it doesn't seem to be connected to the hardware -- among 
other things, there are messages coming through during boot where the 
system tries to initialize the ath0 interface, but it says, "No such 
device"; and when I open the graphical "Networking" tool and try to 
activate the ath0 interface, the first attempt fails (the interface is 
immediately deactivated again), and the second attempt locks up the 
Networking tool. Oops.


And there's no /proc/pci file under this kernel, so I can't check that.

Any advice on resolving this?

Best,
Tim


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Re: Looking for recommendation or backup/restore tool

[Jacob S]

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:41:07 -0700
Steve Lamb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Michael Martinell wrote:
> > Does anybody have any suggestions for this? 
> 
> Erm, why the requirement for a web interface?  That right there is
> the killer because backup/restore is generally thought of an admin
> task which implies to some degree having command line access on the
> box(es) in question. I would presume that a web-based solution hasn't
> been worked on because when one is thinking in terms of backups and,
> as an extension, disaster recovery, the solution which requires the
> least amount of fluff to operate is going to be more robust, sought
> after and presumably developed.

I can't speak to the OP's requirement for it, but I can give an example
where the web interface is helpful for us. And, BTW, BackupPC has both a
cli interface as well as the web interface (since it is written in
Perl).

We have a hosting customer that requires frequent backups and
occasionally needs to download part of a backup. Our backup software
allows us to give them a login that only gives them access to the
backups from their server. This way they can not mess with backups from
other servers and we do not have to trust them with a shell login on our
backup server.

HAND,
Jacob


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Re: Debian Sarge DVD Download Limit?

[Glyn Tebbutt]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

peter colton wrote:
> On Monday 13 June 2005 21:31, Glyn Tebbutt wrote:
> 
>>Hi everyone
>>I'm having problem's downloading the sarge dvd's. Im trying
>>http://ftp.ie.debian.org/debian-cd/3.1_r0/i386/iso-dvd/debian-31r0-i386-bin
>>ary-1.iso but wget stops at 320mb. Same happen's with Firefox. Is there any
>>way around this? I know this has been asked before and someone recommended
>>lftp but I still had the same problem.
>>Cheers
>>--
>>++
>>
>>| Glyn Tebbutt |   [EMAIL PROTECTED] : email |
>>|--+  http://www.plasticmongoose.com : www |
>>| http://www.plasticmongoose.com/misc/d3c3it.asc : gpg |
>>|
>>| "Damn you, vile woman! You've impeded my work since  |
>>| the day I escaped from your wretched womb." - Stewie |
>>
>>++
> 
> 
>   hello Glyn 
> 
> Have a look at using bittorent. as its better on bandwidth and 
> when the iso image is download its integrity will be check by bittorent mdsum
> 
>   all the best 
> 
> peter colton
> 
> 
Hi Peter
I have and did start downloading with it but it was really really slow
and i've got a shed of bandwidth to go at so I thought it would be
easiler via http, looking at it now though maybe bt would be the better
option, or just buying a dvd set :)

- --
++
| Glyn Tebbutt |   [EMAIL PROTECTED] : email |
|--+  http://www.plasticmongoose.com : www   |
| http://www.plasticmongoose.com/misc/d3c3it.asc : gpg   |
||
| "Damn you, vile woman! You've impeded my work since|
| the day I escaped from your wretched womb." - Stewie   |
++
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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QRIvQm0MdaUrk9XkOgIuStw=
=rg5g
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Re: Newly installed Sarge: (1) halts at 8529A IRQ 7 (2) cannot start gdm: X server is missing.

[Bill Marcum]

On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 04:06:55PM -0300, Fernando Cacciola wrote:
> Hello People,
> 
> I had Knoppix 3.8.1 intalled on an old AMD K7 Duron 700 with 128Mb RAM, all 
> OnBoard except the wireless eth card.
> It worked OK.
> 
> Then I installed Sarge from scratch (keeping the Knoppix partitions but 
> re-installing the Sarge FS on it) using a netdist CD.
> The CD part went very smoothly, but when it first booted from the HD I got:
> 
> (1) Spurious 8529A interrupt IRQ7; and it halted.
> 
> Using another PC I looked that up in google and saw that it was probably 
> related to the ACPI code on the 2.4 Kernel.
> 
> So I tried with the 2.6 Kernel but I had 2 problems:
> 
> (2.a) DHCP didn't work (and I tried several times) (but it did for Kernel 
> 2.4)
> (2.b) Leaving net unconfigured, it stops at some point saying that it 
> couldn't locate the Kernel image for 2.6. Either it is not on the netinst CD 
> or it was trying to get it from the internet (and of course it failed)
> 
> So I had to stick with the 2.4 Kernel.
> 
> I tried adding "linux acpi=off" on the CD prompt and installing all over 
> again but I still had the IRQ problem.
> 
> So I was about to install Knoppix back again when I read in its help window 
> to try: "knoppix acpi=off noapci pci=bios" for "broken BIOS"... I figured my 
> PC could have a broken BIOS so I tried those parameters with the debian 
> netinst CD.
> It then passed the first HD boot and moved on with the installation.
> Yet, after it finished downloading and configuring all the packages I got a 
> error saying that "Some packages couldn't be installed"... but it didn't say 
> which ones, so I just ignored it and finished the installation.
> 
> When I rebooted (for the first time with the system apparently fully 
> installed) I got back the IRQ problem, so I just rebooted again and again 
> until it passed (I eventually determined that the message always apperared 
> but 4 out of 5 times it also halted)
> 
Did you use "pci=bios" when you rebooted?  You can put that into 
/etc/lilo.conf or /boot/grub/menu.lst depending which boot loader you 
use.

> So I typed "apt-get -f installed" and it download XFree86-common and spend 
> quite a lot of time updating packages.
> I though it was it, but after I rebooted (about 5 times to get past the IRQ 
> halt); I still get the console prompt and the error that the X server is 
> missing.
> 
> Effectively, xinit is trying to execute "/usr/bin/X11R6/X" but I don't have 
> that X on my system.
> 
> Any clues?
> 
apt-get install xserver-xfree86
apt-get install x-window-system


-- 
I cannot believe that God plays dice with the cosmos.
-- Albert Einstein, on the randomness of quantum mechanics


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Re: Request for window manager recommendations

[Clive Menzies]

On (13/06/05 17:56), Simon Huggins wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 05:35:23PM +0100, Thomas Adam wrote:
> > --- Adam Funk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Educate me: what's the difference?
> > A Window Manager, on the other hand, does just that -- it manages
> > windows.  It doesn't dictate a file manager -- if you want one, you
> > can use one.  There's no interoperability or common functions shared
> > between programs, like there is with DEs.  It certainly provides a
> > great deal more flexibility.
> 
> > So in that way, WMs are much faster, and most WMs are damn good at
> > managing the windows mapped to them.
> 
> Does that mean that xfce4 is a good compromise then between both of
> these concepts given you can install as many or as few of the components
> as you like once you have the basic libraries installed? ;)

I reckon ;)  Having started with KDE and switched to xfce, it seems an
excellent compromise.  I tried a few WM's and icewm came close to what I
was looking for but it was just a bit too light on frills and whistles.
Whereas xfce has some really useful features without the bloat of KDE.

Regards

Clive

-- 
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...strategies for business



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Re: /etc/debian_version for Etch

[Jerome BENOIT]

Hello All


Paul E Condon wrote:

On Sun, Jun 12, 2005 at 10:37:09PM -0500, John Hasler wrote:


Jerome BENOIT writes:


what must /etc/debian_version contain for an Etch box ?


Whatever you want it to say.  On this machine it says "testing/unstable".
--



My test, doing a dist-upgrade on a Sarge system to move it to Etch, showed
that dist-upgrade does not change the contents of /etc/debian-version.
Also, the last modified date on /etc/debian-version is jul 26 2004, which
is the time when I originally installed Sarge on that machine. 


My concern is what can this be used for? It is clearly not useful as a way
of finding out what is actually installed on the machine. If it is truly
whatever one wants to put there, then it is hardly useful to scripts,
which was suggested earlier as its use. So what is it for? 



The presence of this file may help to quickly determine that the box is a 
Debian box:
in some commercial installer script, the corresponding readhat file existence
is checked in oder to install to software. I guess this is the main utility of 
this file.

my 2 cents,
Jerome


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Re: Top posting

[Kent West]

Cybe R. Wizard wrote:

>On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:04:41 -0700
>Steve Lamb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  
>
>>>(*ducks*)
>>>  
>>>
>>*tosses peanuts back at the gallery!*
>>
>>
>Ducks eat peanuts?
>  
>
What is the difference between a duck?

(Which I _still_ don't get.)

-- 
Kent West
Technology Support
/A/bilene /C/hristian /U/niversity


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Re: Debian Sarge DVD Download Limit?

[peter colton]

On Monday 13 June 2005 21:31, Glyn Tebbutt wrote:
> Hi everyone
> I'm having problem's downloading the sarge dvd's. Im trying
> http://ftp.ie.debian.org/debian-cd/3.1_r0/i386/iso-dvd/debian-31r0-i386-bin
>ary-1.iso but wget stops at 320mb. Same happen's with Firefox. Is there any
> way around this? I know this has been asked before and someone recommended
> lftp but I still had the same problem.
> Cheers
> --
> ++
>
> | Glyn Tebbutt |   [EMAIL PROTECTED] : email |
> |--+  http://www.plasticmongoose.com : www |
> | http://www.plasticmongoose.com/misc/d3c3it.asc : gpg |
> |
> | "Damn you, vile woman! You've impeded my work since  |
> | the day I escaped from your wretched womb." - Stewie |
>
> ++

hello Glyn 

Have a look at using bittorent. as its better on bandwidth and 
when the iso image is download its integrity will be check by bittorent mdsum

  all the best 

peter colton


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Re: Top posting

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:04:41 -0700
Steve Lamb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > (*ducks*)
> 
> *tosses peanuts back at the gallery!*

Ducks eat peanuts?

(sorry, sorry)

Cybe R. Wizard
-- 
Press 'START' to stop
Winduhs


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Newly installed Sarge: (1) halts at 8529A IRQ 7 (2) cannot start gdm: X server is missing.

[Fernando Cacciola]

Hello People,

I had Knoppix 3.8.1 intalled on an old AMD K7 Duron 700 with 128Mb RAM, all 
OnBoard except the wireless eth card.
It worked OK.

Then I installed Sarge from scratch (keeping the Knoppix partitions but 
re-installing the Sarge FS on it) using a netdist CD.
The CD part went very smoothly, but when it first booted from the HD I got:

(1) Spurious 8529A interrupt IRQ7; and it halted.

Using another PC I looked that up in google and saw that it was probably 
related to the ACPI code on the 2.4 Kernel.

So I tried with the 2.6 Kernel but I had 2 problems:

(2.a) DHCP didn't work (and I tried several times) (but it did for Kernel 
2.4)
(2.b) Leaving net unconfigured, it stops at some point saying that it 
couldn't locate the Kernel image for 2.6. Either it is not on the netinst CD 
or it was trying to get it from the internet (and of course it failed)

So I had to stick with the 2.4 Kernel.

I tried adding "linux acpi=off" on the CD prompt and installing all over 
again but I still had the IRQ problem.

So I was about to install Knoppix back again when I read in its help window 
to try: "knoppix acpi=off noapci pci=bios" for "broken BIOS"... I figured my 
PC could have a broken BIOS so I tried those parameters with the debian 
netinst CD.
It then passed the first HD boot and moved on with the installation.
Yet, after it finished downloading and configuring all the packages I got a 
error saying that "Some packages couldn't be installed"... but it didn't say 
which ones, so I just ignored it and finished the installation.

When I rebooted (for the first time with the system apparently fully 
installed) I got back the IRQ problem, so I just rebooted again and again 
until it passed (I eventually determined that the message always apperared 
but 4 out of 5 times it also halted)

Since Knoppix wortked OK, and it used Kernel 2.6, I figure that I just need 
to upgrade the Kernel to solve this hardware problems.

But then, after I finally booted my new debian system I ended up in the 
console prompt.. why not a desktop? so I typed "startx" and got an error 
message saying that the "X server was not found".
I typed "apt-get install kde" just to have apt-get install all the 
dependencies (and thus the X server) and it said that XFree86-common was 
required but wasn't going to be installed
So I typed "apt-get -f installed" and it download XFree86-common and spend 
quite a lot of time updating packages.
I though it was it, but after I rebooted (about 5 times to get past the IRQ 
halt); I still get the console prompt and the error that the X server is 
missing.

Effectively, xinit is trying to execute "/usr/bin/X11R6/X" but I don't have 
that X on my system.

Any clues?

TIA

Fernando Cacciola







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Debian Sarge DVD Download Limit?

[Glyn Tebbutt]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi everyone
I'm having problem's downloading the sarge dvd's. Im trying
http://ftp.ie.debian.org/debian-cd/3.1_r0/i386/iso-dvd/debian-31r0-i386-binary-1.iso
but wget stops at 320mb. Same happen's with Firefox. Is there any way
around this? I know this has been asked before and someone recommended
lftp but I still had the same problem.
Cheers
- --
++
| Glyn Tebbutt |   [EMAIL PROTECTED] : email |
|--+  http://www.plasticmongoose.com : www   |
| http://www.plasticmongoose.com/misc/d3c3it.asc : gpg   |
||
| "Damn you, vile woman! You've impeded my work since|
| the day I escaped from your wretched womb." - Stewie   |
++
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFCre0OMmCtbXGg1+4RAonmAKDzGxx40MDNp6ldJo5lu6xmSm5BoACg8rYK
qkkpCKj5bIrC0of5hryL1C0=
=33tv
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: /etc/debian_version for Etch

[David Jardine]

On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 01:29:40PM -0600, Paul E Condon wrote:
> 
> My test, doing a dist-upgrade on a Sarge system to move it to Etch, showed
> that dist-upgrade does not change the contents of /etc/debian-version.
> Also, the last modified date on /etc/debian-version is jul 26 2004, which
> is the time when I originally installed Sarge on that machine. 
> 
> My concern is what can this be used for? It is clearly not useful as a way
> of finding out what is actually installed on the machine. If it is truly
> whatever one wants to put there, then it is hardly useful to scripts,
> which was suggested earlier as its use. So what is it for? 
> 

Following the recent discussion on this, I changed the entry in 
my /etc/debian_version to "Windows XP" to see what error messages 
I might get...

-- 
David Jardine

"Running Debian GNU/Linux and
loving every minute of it."  -L. von Sacher-M.(1835-1895)


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locale and dead keys

[Antonios Christofides]

Hi,

I want to be able to type both French and Greek (except English).

When I start the application (xterm, uxterm, and openoffice all
exhibit the same behavior) with LC_CTYPE=el_GR.UTF-8, then Greek is
OK; but if I switch to us_intl keymap, I can't type accented letters;
they are just ignored.

If, instead, I start the application with LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8, then
us_intl dead keys work OK. Most Greek characters, including accented
ones (produced with the dead key) are OK; but the Greek quotes and
Greek semicolon, which are produced with the dead key, don't work.

Can't I just somehow say to the system to ignore what is before the
dot at LC_CTYPE and just accept the UTF-8 result that seems to be
coming from the keyboard driver anyway?

Thanks a lot.


pgpOeBZmhCyfp.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Top posting

[Hal Vaughan]

On Monday 13 June 2005 02:36 pm, Steve Lamb wrote:
> Because we're not playing Jeopardy.
>
> Why is top-posting wrong?
>
> Put up top for the top posters who are too lazy to do it right.

Cute.  Just so cute and original.  I don't think I've seen that before -- in 
this thread -- today -- in the past few hours.

> Hal Vaughan wrote:
> > It is not a strawman argument.
>
> It is.

It is a metaphor.  In both cases, groups have set themselves up as the 
authority on what is right and wrong, whether it is a technical or moral 
argument.

> > My point is that you have put yourself in a position to say, "This is
> > right," you are making an absolute moral judgement for all people and all
> > time.
>
> Top posting vs. bottom posting vs. interspersing is not a moral
> judgement. It is a *technical discussion* much in the same way that there
> is a right and wrong way to write English.  For example there are rules on
> where punctuation is placed when using quotation marks.

No, it isn't a moral judgement.  That is correct.  And yes, it is a 
discussion, with that being the operative word, yet it isn't a technical 
discussion where one side has empirical proof, such as whether the Sun orbits 
the Earth or the Earth orbits the Sun.  What I've noticed is that those in 
favor generally are saying understanding and tolerating different ways is 
appropriate, while those against are saying, "this works, it makes sense, and 
it's right," without opening the door (which I've mentioned a few times) that 
many people process information in different ways.  I've basically seen 
arguments that say that style makes it easy for one group to read, so that 
makes it right. 

> > Just like those who said their music was right and others were wrong,
>
> Musical tastes are subjective although one could make some pretty
> convincing arguments on the relative merits of Mozart (the mathematical
> structure of his music) vs. the lack of merits of pretty much the entire
> gansta rap genre (rhyming poetry which is 99% about the author and his
> mostly fictional deeds and virlity).  ;)

Information processing is also quite subjective.  I learned that in a decade 
of dealing with the learning disabled.  That's the point I've been driving 
toward for this whole thread, but everyone that has one way of looking at 
things is so sure they are right, they are literally unable to see another 
point of view, or even dare to consider it.



> > In other words, you are either incapable of, or refuse to understand that
> > your view, as for all of us, is relative and subjective.
>
> Bzt.  Nice try, no cigar.  I have yet to see one blasted reason why top
> posting is technically valid outside of having to address the technical
> screw-ups of the authors of some piece of software.  NONE.  I don't say
> that because of some namby-pampy "I don't accept your subjective view".  I
> say it because they can be shot down.

I've given several.  But this seems to be more and more a case where those 
that don't like top posting basically ignore whatever doesn't support them.

Hal


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Re: Top posting

[Hal Vaughan]

On Monday 13 June 2005 02:45 pm, Steve Lamb wrote:
> Proofreading is a good thing.  Why I never do it until the message is
> delivered back to me is beyond me.
>
> Steve Lamb wrote:
> > Point is that since it is a matter of technical detail, not moral nor
> > subjective as all points in favor of interspersing and against top/bottom
> > posting are *objective within the context of the forum under discussion*
> > anyone who does adhere to them after being properly educated is sloppy or
> > lazy.
>
> Point is that since it is a matter of technical detail, not moral nor
> subjective, as /most/ points in favor of interspersing and against
> top/bottomg posting are *objective within the context of the forum under
> discussion*. Anyone who does /not/ adhere to them after being properly
> educated is sloppy or lazy.
>
> 2 words, 2 stinking words make all the difference.  *sigh*

Actually, they are not as objective as one would think.  Putting a few 
sentences together in reverse order is not a comparison to top posting. 
Comparing paragraph structure to a post is not necessarily analogous.  There 
are many reasons, in writing, to start with a conclusion.

As to the "as /most/ points", I have yet to see anyone saying that show that 
they have the least insight into learning and perception styles and how 
different types of minds/personalities read and perceive information.  All 
I've seen is a bunch of people who say, essentially, how it makes sense to 
them, and since it makes sense to them, it *has* to be right.

Hal


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Re: How to capture bootup messages?

[Stephen R Laniel]

On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 03:59:23PM -0400, John Kelly wrote:
> I used sysv-rc-conf to enable it, but it did not start.  Then I
> noticed its script checks BOOTLOGD_ENABLE in /etc/default/bootlogd
> before starting.
> 
> Debian has a lot of knobs to turn; I see it will take some time to
> learn my way around.

Debian definitely does. As a general rule, though, it's worth
keeping in the back of your head that /etc/default contains
instructions on whether to start certain daemons at boot
time -- e.g., /etc/default/rsync contains an option on whether
to start rsyncd, or just to enable the client.

Knowing about /etc/default would have saved me a good deal of
time earlier on. Actually, I knew about it; it just didn't
register in my head. Keep it in yours, and all will be well.

-- 
Stephen R. Laniel
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
+(617) 308-5571
http://laniels.org/
PGP key: http://laniels.org/slaniel.key


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Description: Digital signature

Re: Request for window manager recommendations

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 17:56:46 +0100
Simon Huggins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Does that mean that xfce4 is a good compromise then between both of
> these concepts given you can install as many or as few of the
> components as you like once you have the basic libraries installed? ;)

Having been a loyal IceWM user since Potato was new I recently switched
to Xfce4 to see what it could do for me.  Well, IceWM has /never/
crashed on me in all that time.  Last week Xfce4 crashed on me five
times.  Other than that, yes, it's a good compromise*.
I've gone back to the tried and true IceWM.

*  Maybe that should be spelled, "/con/promise.

Cybe R. Wizard
-- 
Q: What's the difference between MicroSoft Windows and a virus? 
A: Apart from the fact that viruses are supported by their authors, 
use optimized, small code and usually perform well, none.
Winduhs


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Re: How to capture bootup messages?

[John Kelly]

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 20:21:06 +0100, michael
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>On Mon, 2005-06-13 at 15:15 -0400, John Kelly wrote:

>> When booting, I see console messages from programs using stdout and
>> stderr, scrolling by too fast to read.  They are not logged in dmesg
>> or any /var/log file.
>> 
>> How to capture them?
>
>man bootlogd

I used sysv-rc-conf to enable it, but it did not start.  Then I
noticed its script checks BOOTLOGD_ENABLE in /etc/default/bootlogd
before starting.

Debian has a lot of knobs to turn; I see it will take some time to
learn my way around.

Thanks for the quick help.


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Re: How to capture bootup messages?

[Olle Eriksson]

On Monday 13 June 2005 21.21, michael wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-06-13 at 15:15 -0400, John Kelly wrote:
> > When booting, I see console messages from programs using stdout and
> > stderr, scrolling by too fast to read.  They are not logged in dmesg
> > or any /var/log file.
> >
> > How to capture them?
>
> man bootlogd

Have a look in /etc/default/bootlogd.

-- 
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Re: system monitoring software

[Ugo Bellavance]

Cam wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm looking for some software that can do some basic system-monitoring
> tasks (check if services are up and running, hard-drive space, etc). 
> I've been looking at some things like nagios, OpenNMS, and Cacti...
> they all look pretty good (i probably like the looks of nagios the
> best), but i'd like to get some input on what has worked for people in
> the past.

I suggest monit or mon.

> 
> Thanks,
> Cameron Matheson
> 
> 


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Re: Top posting

[Steve Lamb]

Kent West wrote:
> Steve Lamb wrote:
>>   Proofreading is a good thing.  Why I never do it until the message is
>>delivered back to me is beyond me.

> ...

>>"and against top/bottomg posting ..."

> D'oh!

Meh, typos I'm less concerned about than sweeping generalizations I have
not confirmed (IE, "all points") and a dropped word which changes the entire
meaning of a sentence (IE, those who follow the rules are lazy... er.. wait).  
:D

-- 
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   PGP Key: 8B6E99C5   | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
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Re: /etc/debian_version for Etch

[Paul E Condon]

On Sun, Jun 12, 2005 at 10:37:09PM -0500, John Hasler wrote:
> Jerome BENOIT writes:
> > what must /etc/debian_version contain for an Etch box ?
> 
> Whatever you want it to say.  On this machine it says "testing/unstable".
> -- 

My test, doing a dist-upgrade on a Sarge system to move it to Etch, showed
that dist-upgrade does not change the contents of /etc/debian-version.
Also, the last modified date on /etc/debian-version is jul 26 2004, which
is the time when I originally installed Sarge on that machine. 

My concern is what can this be used for? It is clearly not useful as a way
of finding out what is actually installed on the machine. If it is truly
whatever one wants to put there, then it is hardly useful to scripts,
which was suggested earlier as its use. So what is it for? 

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Re: How to capture bootup messages?

[michael]

On Mon, 2005-06-13 at 15:15 -0400, John Kelly wrote:
> When booting, I see console messages from programs using stdout and
> stderr, scrolling by too fast to read.  They are not logged in dmesg
> or any /var/log file.
> 
> How to capture them?

man bootlogd
-- 
Michael Bane
Atmospheric Physics Group
University of Manchester


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How to capture bootup messages?

[John Kelly]

When booting, I see console messages from programs using stdout and
stderr, scrolling by too fast to read.  They are not logged in dmesg
or any /var/log file.

How to capture them?


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Re: Top posting

[Steve Lamb]

Kent West wrote:
> "I say,", said Fred, "that's a giant tuber!".  - - Incorrect, but
> technically more informative (or so I would think)

> (*ducks*)

*tosses peanuts back at the gallery!*

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Re: Disk Mirroring in Sarge howto

[Rhomboid]

I just tried to install Sarge yesterday with RAID (md) from the initial 
setup on a machine. I tried RAID-0 and RAID-1 and both times the 
installation failed on grub-install. It just hung. The third time I let 
it sit for about 5 hours and when I got home it was still hung. LILO 
failed as well and couldn't find hda (no such device).


AMD Athlon 1.2GHz (tbird)
512MB PC2100
Nvidia GF3 64MB
Asus A7M266
2x WD JB 40GB (hda/hdb, tried RAID on these, using md)
1x IBM 16GB (hdc, used for swap and /var)
Adaptec aic7xxx (onboard SCSI)
Plextor SCSI Ultraplex CD
Seagate SCSI Scorpion DAT 20GB
Intel EEPro 100

Tried setting both WD drives bootable at one point, always selected MBR 
for bootloader installation. I know it may have been "better" to put one 
half of the RAID on the other controller but this was just an experiment 
to see if it would even work on initial install.


System installed just fine later without RAID.

Siju George wrote:

Hi all,

I would like to implement Disk mirroring ( Raid1 ) in Debian Sarge. Is
it possible to configure it while installation if I have both hard
disks attached??

Could someone please tell me what is the easiest way ( steps ) to get
this done???

I hope it will be easy because the Installer has an option to
configure software RAID but I a not able to get doing it successfully
:-(

thankyou so much

kind regards

Siju




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Re: Top posting

[Kent West]

Steve Lamb wrote:

>Proofreading is a good thing.  Why I never do it until the message is
>delivered back to me is beyond me.
>
...

>"and against top/bottomg posting ..."
>
D'oh!

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Re: Top posting

[Kent West]

Steve Lamb wrote:

>For example there are rules on where punctuation
>is placed when using quotation marks.
>
>"I say," said Fred, "that's a giant tuber!"  --   Correct
>
>"I say", said Fred, "that's a giant tuber"!  --   Incorrect
>  
>
"I say,", said Fred, "that's a giant tuber!".  - - Incorrect, but
technically more informative (or so I would think)

(*ducks*)


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Technology Support
/A/bilene /C/hristian /U/niversity


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