Re: Separate partitions for filesystems (was Re: computer rendered un-usable)

[Rick Thomas]

On Jun 24, 2013, at 12:31 PM, Jochen Spieker wrote:


David Guntner:

Jochen Spieker grabbed a keyboard and wrote:


Judging from your usage of "df -k" (instead of -g or -h) and the  
number

of filesystems, you should probably apply at IBM. :->


And yes, I had the great misfortune of being an administrator of an  
AIX

system (on the subject of IBM...). :-)


My condolences. Luckily, I only need to log in to such systems  
(setup by

IBM GTS, I believe) on rare occasions. It is unbelievable how AIX kept
stuck in the 90s. And really, the number of filesystems on these
machines is astonishing. I think I have seen more than 30 filesystems.
More than 20 is apparently not unusual.


Oh, I know about -h (-g doesn't work on this system (6.0.7));


That was my fault. I knew -m works and suspected -g would display
gigabytes. It doesn't.


Check out the "-B" option. It handles all that sillyness with  
remarkable elegance... (For example, "-B1MB" gives sizes in Megabytes  
[10^6 bytes]; "-B1T" gives sizes in Tebibytes [2^40 bytes])





I just prefer the slightly-more-detailed information when showing the
space used as 1K blocks.


Yes, sometimes that makes it easier to compare the numbers.


Seriously, you should really look into LVM. It provides way more
flexibility than DOS partitions for setups like yours.


I've heard about LVM but really don't know that much about it.  I'll
look more into it and see what it's all about.  Thanks for the  
suggestion.


You will not regret it.


LVM has the added advantage over traditional partitioning methods that  
it elegantly handles devices with capacities over 2TiB [2*2^40 bytes].  
Most partitioning methods that originated before Y2K have 32 bit  
fields for block numbers.  And 2^32*512 bytes = 2TiB .




J.
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Rick


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Dual monitor problems

[Oliver Elphick]

I am trying to use two monitors at once, for the first time, using an 
Nvidia dual head card.


I have now got the two monitors displaying a single screen and the mouse 
passes from one to the other.  However, the second screen blanks after 
around 20 seconds of non-use and nothing will bring it back to life.  I 
can pass the mouse into it, or select a  window that is on it, but it 
remains black.  The only exception is that it will restore when the 
screen is locked and I enter my password to unlock it.


Where should I look?

Debian version: sid, recently updated

Oliver Elphick


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udev & automounting

[peasthope]

peter@dalton:~$ # Flash storage not yet connected.
peter@dalton:~$ ls -l /dev/San*
ls: cannot access /dev/San*: No such file or directory

peter@dalton:~$ tail -n8 /etc/udev/rules.d/10*rules
# A SanDisk 512 MB CF card.  Two VFATs.
KERNEL=="sd?", ATTR{size}=="1000944", SYMLINK+="SanDiskCF", \
 OWNER="peter", GROUP="users"
KERNEL=="sd?1", ATTR{size}=="205569", SYMLINK+="SanDiskCF1", \
 OWNER="peter", GROUP="users"
KERNEL=="sd?2", ATTR{size}=="795312", SYMLINK+="SanDiskCF2", \
 OWNER="peter", GROUP="users"

peter@dalton:~$ # Insert the card.
peter@dalton:~$ ls -l /dev/San*
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 3 Jun 24 19:56 /dev/SanDiskCF -> sdb
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 Jun 24 19:56 /dev/SanDiskCF1 -> sdb1
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 Jun 24 19:56 /dev/SanDiskCF2 -> sdb2
peter@dalton:~$ ls -l /dev/sdb*
brw-rw---T 1 peter floppy 8, 16 Jun 24 19:56 /dev/sdb
brw-rw---T 1 peter floppy 8, 17 Jun 24 19:56 /dev/sdb1
brw-rw---T 1 peter floppy 8, 18 Jun 24 19:56 /dev/sdb2

peter@dalton:~$ tail -n2 /etc/fstab
/dev/SanDiskCF1  /home/peter/DOS  vfat  defaults,noauto,user  0   0
/dev/SanDiskCF2  /home/peter/Work  vfat  defaults,noauto,user  0   0

peter@dalton:~$ mount | grep vfat
/dev/sdb1 on /home/peter/DOS type vfat (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,uid=1000
,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=cp437,iocharset=utf8,shortname=mixed,errors=remo
unt-ro,user=peter)
/dev/sdb2 on /home/peter/Work type vfat (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,uid=100
0,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=cp437,iocharset=utf8,shortname=mixed,errors=rem
ount-ro,user=peter)

So /dev/SanDiskCF* are owned by a user.  Nevertheless 
/dev/sdb{1,2} are owned by root and are automounted. 

Is there a better way of preventing the automounting 
than by adding entries to fstab?
/dev/sdb1  /nowhere  auto  noauto  0  0
/dev/sdb2  /nowhere  auto  noauto  0  0
/dev/sdc1  /nowhere  auto  noauto  0  0
 ... 

Thanks,  ... Peter E. 
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Re: Backing up on obnam.

[Celejar]

On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 05:13:13 +0100
Sharon Kimble  wrote:

> On 25 June 2013 02:57, Celejar  wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 19:51:23 +0100
> > Sharon Kimble  wrote:
> >
> > > I am using obnam 1.4 on wheezy with no problems, but, I am unable to back
> > > up both /etc and /var both at the same time. I've tried 'root = /etc,
> > /var'
> > > and /etc is backed up but not /var.
> > >
> > > How then can I back up /var at the same time please?
> >
> > Have you tried using two separate 'root' directives? What about just
> > running the command twice, once for each root?
> 
> 
> You mean like this?
> root = /etc
> root = /var
> 
> Either way, /etc is backed up but /var isn't.

http://liw.fi/obnam/bugs/Can__39__t_set_multiple_roots_in_configfile/

Claims that your comma example should work, and also that it's possible
to specify two roots on the command line. Haven't tried any of this.

If it doesn't work, you should file a bug.

> The only way that I could run the command twice is to have two config files
> and then run them at different times. Which seems rather wasteful, and, as

> they're both owned by $ROOT and need gksudo permission, it makes more sense
> to have them both in one file, and utilised at one time. That's what I'm
> aiming for.
> 
> Sharon.

Celejar


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Re: Re: At my wit's end with openvpn

[Joel Wirāmu Pauling]

Also add

pull

to the end of the config file.

On 25 June 2013 16:09, Joel Wirāmu Pauling  wrote:
> Goes to syslog by default i.e /var/log/syslog IIRC.
>
> Your name resolution issue is seperate, and probably due to needing
> different name servers. Ensure you have a tun/tap device and IP etc
> from your vpn provider with ;
>
> $ip addr
>
> and
>
> $ip route show
>
> and pinging the (hopefully new) default gateway.
>
> Find out from your provider what dns servers you can use. Or at a
> pinch at opendns or googles global ones (8.8.8.8) into
> /etc/resolv.conf
>
>
>
> On 25 June 2013 13:37, Aubrey Raech  wrote:
>>
>>> Put those settings into a file in /etc/openvpn/.conf
>>>
>>> Put your key, crt and ca into that same directory.
>>>
>>> run :
>>>
>>> $/etc/init.d/openvpn restart
>>>
>>> ta da!
>>>
>>> Done.
>>>
>>> This will automatically start on boot unless you change your startup 
>>> scripts.
>>
>> I did this, and I lose the ability to connect. Domains no longer
>> resolve, which I found out from ping.
>>
>> I put the user/pass in a text file in the same directory and pointed
>> my .conf to that, which I know is less than ideal but it's the option
>> I'm stuck with for now. Where are the logs for openvpn, I can't seem
>> to find them?
>>
>> --
>> Aubrey
>>
>> "There are two types of people in the world: those who
>>   can extrapolate from incomplete data."
>>
>>
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Re: Backing up on obnam.

[Sharon Kimble]

On 25 June 2013 02:57, Celejar  wrote:

> On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 19:51:23 +0100
> Sharon Kimble  wrote:
>
> > I am using obnam 1.4 on wheezy with no problems, but, I am unable to back
> > up both /etc and /var both at the same time. I've tried 'root = /etc,
> /var'
> > and /etc is backed up but not /var.
> >
> > How then can I back up /var at the same time please?
>
> Have you tried using two separate 'root' directives? What about just
> running the command twice, once for each root?


You mean like this?
root = /etc
root = /var

Either way, /etc is backed up but /var isn't.


The only way that I could run the command twice is to have two config files
and then run them at different times. Which seems rather wasteful, and, as
they're both owned by $ROOT and need gksudo permission, it makes more sense
to have them both in one file, and utilised at one time. That's what I'm
aiming for.

Sharon.

>
>

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Registered Linux user 334501

Re: Re: At my wit's end with openvpn

[Joel Wirāmu Pauling]

Goes to syslog by default i.e /var/log/syslog IIRC.

Your name resolution issue is seperate, and probably due to needing
different name servers. Ensure you have a tun/tap device and IP etc
from your vpn provider with ;

$ip addr

and

$ip route show

and pinging the (hopefully new) default gateway.

Find out from your provider what dns servers you can use. Or at a
pinch at opendns or googles global ones (8.8.8.8) into
/etc/resolv.conf



On 25 June 2013 13:37, Aubrey Raech  wrote:
>
>> Put those settings into a file in /etc/openvpn/.conf
>>
>> Put your key, crt and ca into that same directory.
>>
>> run :
>>
>> $/etc/init.d/openvpn restart
>>
>> ta da!
>>
>> Done.
>>
>> This will automatically start on boot unless you change your startup scripts.
>
> I did this, and I lose the ability to connect. Domains no longer
> resolve, which I found out from ping.
>
> I put the user/pass in a text file in the same directory and pointed
> my .conf to that, which I know is less than ideal but it's the option
> I'm stuck with for now. Where are the logs for openvpn, I can't seem
> to find them?
>
> --
> Aubrey
>
> "There are two types of people in the world: those who
>   can extrapolate from incomplete data."
>
>
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Re: Graphic card advice

[David Christensen]

On 06/24/13 01:37, a...@alphanet.ch wrote:

Hi,
I am a debian user and I am looking to buy a new computer (I will build
it).
I simply wonder if it is better to take a graphic card with an ATI or a
NVIDIA chipset.
Can someone please give me an advice ?


It would help if you told us:

1.  Your budget.

2.  What applications you plan to run.

3.  How many monitor(s) you have (or will buy) and their interfaces, 
resolution(s), color depth(s), and refresh rate(s).


4.  Your preference for open-source vs. proprietary drivers.

5.  How much effort you are willing to put into keeping the video device 
driver(s) current.


David


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Re: Graphic card advice

[Patrick Bartek]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013, Ralf Mardorf wrote:

> On Mon, 2013-06-24 at 09:48 -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > (I've been using Linux for about 12 years--switched from the
> > Amiga, not Windows)
> 
> I switched from the Atari ST to Linux 10 years ago, but I've got a
> 80286 hardware emulator mounted inside my 520ST and 4 MB PC RAM
> replaced the 512 KB, however, I also run DR DOS on that machine and
> used a lot of 98SE and XP in my life. So I'm also not a native
> Microsoft user, but I guess everybody of us had to use DOS or Windows
> sometimes? At school, at work?

The Atari ST.  Remember that one.  It was on my short list when I was
looking for a personal computer to replace my fried Commodore 64. But I
chose the Amiga instead. All my reading indicated it had more potential
as a personal computer.  Too bad Commodore never realized that, and
drove it into the ground.

> > Nouveau didn't support 3-D anyway.
> 
> But now it does work perfectly for my NVIDIA card, that I don't use at
> the moment, at least for Google Earth.

News to me.  But doesn't really matter.  I don't have or use any 3-D
apps.  The only games I play are chess, poker and Blackjack, and 2-D
works just fine. ;-)

B


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Re: Backing up on obnam.

[Celejar]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 19:51:23 +0100
Sharon Kimble  wrote:

> I am using obnam 1.4 on wheezy with no problems, but, I am unable to back
> up both /etc and /var both at the same time. I've tried 'root = /etc, /var'
> and /etc is backed up but not /var.
> 
> How then can I back up /var at the same time please?

Have you tried using two separate 'root' directives? What about just
running the command twice, once for each root?

> Thanks
> Sharon.

Celejar


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Re: Re: At my wit's end with openvpn

[Aubrey Raech]

> Put those settings into a file in /etc/openvpn/.conf
> 
> Put your key, crt and ca into that same directory.
> 
> run :
> 
> $/etc/init.d/openvpn restart
> 
> ta da!
> 
> Done.
> 
> This will automatically start on boot unless you change your startup scripts.

I did this, and I lose the ability to connect. Domains no longer
resolve, which I found out from ping.

I put the user/pass in a text file in the same directory and pointed
my .conf to that, which I know is less than ideal but it's the option
I'm stuck with for now. Where are the logs for openvpn, I can't seem
to find them?

-- 
Aubrey

"There are two types of people in the world: those who
  can extrapolate from incomplete data."


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Re: NAS raid with Debian?

[Celejar]

On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 00:49:00 +1000
Andrew McGlashan  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> On 5/04/2013 6:49 AM, Celejar wrote:
> > FWIW, I've been running Debian Wheezy on a Seagate Go Flex Net
> > (STAK100 - http://projects.doozan.com/debian/) for a while, with pretty
> > good results. It's a Kirkwood system with 128MB RAM, 256MB NAND, 2 SATA
> > connectors, 1 USB port and Gigabit ethernet
> 
> I'm looking at installing Debian on one of these:
> 
> http://www.megabuy.com.au/seagate-stbf500300-goflex-satellite-500gb-mobile-wireless-portable-hard-drive-p10274465.html
> 
> It has built in wireless capability (and battery) with the 500GB disk.
> 
> A serious limitation of the unit is that it creates it's "own" WiFi
> network and doesn't participate in an existing WiFi network that's
> what I really want to fix.
> 
> The firmware download includes a uImage file as follows:
> 
> # file uImage
> uImage: u-boot legacy uImage, Linux-2.6.32, Linux/ARM, OS Kernel Image
> (Not compressed), 2313388 bytes, Tue Dec 20 21:36:47 2011, Load Address:
> 0x80008000, Entry Point: 0x80008000, Header CRC: 0x01B18018, Data CRC:
> 0x0AA8AC17
> 
> So, I'm hoping that it will be possible to make this unit much more
> useful as a very portable Debian box.

Well, good luck, but a quick web search doesn't suggest that people
have gotten real Debian (or Arch) running on that model. There's a thread here:

http://lists.debian.org/debian-arm/2012/08/threads.html#00107

But the thing doesn't seem to appear on Jeff Doozan's site, or on archlinuxarm.

> AndrewM

Celejar


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Re: wacky question

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 02:11:10 +0200, staticsafe  wrote:


On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 09:41:24AM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:

On 6/25/13, Carroll Grigsby  wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 15:28:18 +0100
> Lisi Reisz  wrote:
>
 whack
>>
>> This is an interesting discussion.  But perhaps if we want to
>> continue we should take it off-list?

debian-curiosa@lists... perhaps appropriate?

Some (such as I) do appreciate some diversions, esp. matters in
relation to freedom. So I'm wondering how it could go off-list?




Thereis the debian community offtopic mailing list.
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic


Take a look at the Archiv
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/d-community-offtopic/2013-June/date.html

I tried to move this thread already on Sat Jun 22 05:55:18 UTC 2013 to  
this list.


This thread shouldn't go off-list, but it also isn't good to continue it  
here.



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Re: At my wit's end with openvpn

[Joel Wirāmu Pauling]

Oh I just noticed you are using userpass auth method...

so just the ca and the userpass in-line in the file will work.

You would be much better off getting a key and crt from your provider
if they support it than using user pass.

On 25 June 2013 12:49, Joel Wirāmu Pauling  wrote:
> Put those settings into a file in /etc/openvpn/.conf
>
> Put your key, crt and ca into that same directory.
>
> run :
>
> $/etc/init.d/openvpn restart
>
> ta da!
>
> Done.
>
> This will automatically start on boot unless you change your startup scripts.
>
>
> On 25 June 2013 12:30, Aubrey Raech  wrote:
>> Hey all,
>>
>> I'm at my wit's end with openvpn. I've had a VPN service for almost a
>> month now and I haven't been able to use it on Debian sid. I've never
>> used a VPN before, so this is all very new to me.
>>
>> The service works out of the box on my flatmate's Windows computer, and
>> if I use the provided installation script for Ubuntu 12.04, everything
>> is set up and magically works. (I tried it using a LiveCD of Ubuntu
>> 12.04.)
>>
>> Unfortunately, on Debian sid, it simply doesn't work. The optimal way
>> of setting up the VPN service would be to open the network manager in
>> GNOME 3.4, add a new interface (of type "VPN"), input the server and
>> login credentials, and save it. When I click the toggle to switch it
>> On, it says On but does not activate. If I click the name of the VPN
>> interface, it shows the toggle to be OFF. No amount of waiting at
>> this point will activate the service. No error messages are given.
>>
>> I've tried it with the numerous servers provided by the service, and
>> all have the same effect in the GNOME network manager.
>>
>> I found an article on their site written by a user recommending typing
>> "openvpn Location.ovpn" at the command-line as root; the Location.ovpn
>> files are included in a tarball from the service (along with their
>> certificate, which I have properly pointed to in all instances of
>> attempting connection). An example of these files are between the
>> tildes:
>>
>> ~
>> client
>> dev tun
>> proto udp
>> remote us-west.privateinternetaccess.com 1194
>> resolv-retry infinite
>> nobind
>> persist-key
>> persist-tun
>> ca ca.crt
>> tls-client
>> remote-cert-tls server
>> auth-user-pass
>> comp-lzo
>> verb 1
>> reneg-sec 0
>> ~
>>
>> When I run that command, I am prompted for my username and password. I
>> input these, and then it is reported that the connection is
>> successful. If I'm *lucky* I can squeeze out enough kilobytes of
>> connection to find out that my IP is successfully being reported as
>> whatever the location I chose is, but after that I cannot connect to
>> anything until I cease the connection with C-c in the command line.
>>
>> I'm at my wit's end as to why this is working in Ubuntu and Windows
>> but not in Debian, and it's driving me mad. I'd like to see some
>> errors! Some sort of pointer as to where I can look next or what I can
>> try next. Any tips on either what I can try or what I can input to get
>> some error messages?
>>
>> For the record, I have an installation of Debian Wheezy (stable) and
>> this problem is identical in there. I think the problem is probably
>> GNOME3's, but do not know of another method of connecting to a VPN
>> with which to test that theory!
>>
>> Also, for reference, here's the help page for the service:
>> https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/pages/client-support/
>>
>> Thank you in advance,
>>
>> --
>> Aubrey
>>
>> "There are two types of people in the world: those who
>>   can extrapolate from incomplete data."
>>
>>
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Re: At my wit's end with openvpn

[Joel Wirāmu Pauling]

Put those settings into a file in /etc/openvpn/.conf

Put your key, crt and ca into that same directory.

run :

$/etc/init.d/openvpn restart

ta da!

Done.

This will automatically start on boot unless you change your startup scripts.


On 25 June 2013 12:30, Aubrey Raech  wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> I'm at my wit's end with openvpn. I've had a VPN service for almost a
> month now and I haven't been able to use it on Debian sid. I've never
> used a VPN before, so this is all very new to me.
>
> The service works out of the box on my flatmate's Windows computer, and
> if I use the provided installation script for Ubuntu 12.04, everything
> is set up and magically works. (I tried it using a LiveCD of Ubuntu
> 12.04.)
>
> Unfortunately, on Debian sid, it simply doesn't work. The optimal way
> of setting up the VPN service would be to open the network manager in
> GNOME 3.4, add a new interface (of type "VPN"), input the server and
> login credentials, and save it. When I click the toggle to switch it
> On, it says On but does not activate. If I click the name of the VPN
> interface, it shows the toggle to be OFF. No amount of waiting at
> this point will activate the service. No error messages are given.
>
> I've tried it with the numerous servers provided by the service, and
> all have the same effect in the GNOME network manager.
>
> I found an article on their site written by a user recommending typing
> "openvpn Location.ovpn" at the command-line as root; the Location.ovpn
> files are included in a tarball from the service (along with their
> certificate, which I have properly pointed to in all instances of
> attempting connection). An example of these files are between the
> tildes:
>
> ~
> client
> dev tun
> proto udp
> remote us-west.privateinternetaccess.com 1194
> resolv-retry infinite
> nobind
> persist-key
> persist-tun
> ca ca.crt
> tls-client
> remote-cert-tls server
> auth-user-pass
> comp-lzo
> verb 1
> reneg-sec 0
> ~
>
> When I run that command, I am prompted for my username and password. I
> input these, and then it is reported that the connection is
> successful. If I'm *lucky* I can squeeze out enough kilobytes of
> connection to find out that my IP is successfully being reported as
> whatever the location I chose is, but after that I cannot connect to
> anything until I cease the connection with C-c in the command line.
>
> I'm at my wit's end as to why this is working in Ubuntu and Windows
> but not in Debian, and it's driving me mad. I'd like to see some
> errors! Some sort of pointer as to where I can look next or what I can
> try next. Any tips on either what I can try or what I can input to get
> some error messages?
>
> For the record, I have an installation of Debian Wheezy (stable) and
> this problem is identical in there. I think the problem is probably
> GNOME3's, but do not know of another method of connecting to a VPN
> with which to test that theory!
>
> Also, for reference, here's the help page for the service:
> https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/pages/client-support/
>
> Thank you in advance,
>
> --
> Aubrey
>
> "There are two types of people in the world: those who
>   can extrapolate from incomplete data."
>
>
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At my wit's end with openvpn

[Aubrey Raech]

Hey all,

I'm at my wit's end with openvpn. I've had a VPN service for almost a
month now and I haven't been able to use it on Debian sid. I've never
used a VPN before, so this is all very new to me.

The service works out of the box on my flatmate's Windows computer, and
if I use the provided installation script for Ubuntu 12.04, everything
is set up and magically works. (I tried it using a LiveCD of Ubuntu
12.04.)

Unfortunately, on Debian sid, it simply doesn't work. The optimal way
of setting up the VPN service would be to open the network manager in
GNOME 3.4, add a new interface (of type "VPN"), input the server and
login credentials, and save it. When I click the toggle to switch it
On, it says On but does not activate. If I click the name of the VPN
interface, it shows the toggle to be OFF. No amount of waiting at
this point will activate the service. No error messages are given.

I've tried it with the numerous servers provided by the service, and
all have the same effect in the GNOME network manager.

I found an article on their site written by a user recommending typing
"openvpn Location.ovpn" at the command-line as root; the Location.ovpn
files are included in a tarball from the service (along with their
certificate, which I have properly pointed to in all instances of
attempting connection). An example of these files are between the
tildes:

~
client
dev tun
proto udp
remote us-west.privateinternetaccess.com 1194
resolv-retry infinite
nobind
persist-key
persist-tun
ca ca.crt
tls-client
remote-cert-tls server
auth-user-pass
comp-lzo
verb 1
reneg-sec 0
~

When I run that command, I am prompted for my username and password. I
input these, and then it is reported that the connection is
successful. If I'm *lucky* I can squeeze out enough kilobytes of
connection to find out that my IP is successfully being reported as
whatever the location I chose is, but after that I cannot connect to
anything until I cease the connection with C-c in the command line.

I'm at my wit's end as to why this is working in Ubuntu and Windows
but not in Debian, and it's driving me mad. I'd like to see some
errors! Some sort of pointer as to where I can look next or what I can
try next. Any tips on either what I can try or what I can input to get
some error messages?

For the record, I have an installation of Debian Wheezy (stable) and
this problem is identical in there. I think the problem is probably
GNOME3's, but do not know of another method of connecting to a VPN
with which to test that theory!

Also, for reference, here's the help page for the service:
https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/pages/client-support/

Thank you in advance,

-- 
Aubrey

"There are two types of people in the world: those who
  can extrapolate from incomplete data."


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Re: wacky question

[staticsafe]

On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 09:41:24AM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> On 6/25/13, Carroll Grigsby  wrote:
> > On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 15:28:18 +0100
> > Lisi Reisz  wrote:
> >
>  whack
> >>
> >> This is an interesting discussion.  But perhaps if we want to
> >> continue we should take it off-list?
> 
> debian-curiosa@lists... perhaps appropriate?
> 
> Some (such as I) do appreciate some diversions, esp. matters in
> relation to freedom. So I'm wondering how it could go off-list?
> 
> 

Thereis the debian community offtopic mailing list.
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic
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Re: wacky question

[Zenaan Harkness]

On 6/25/13, Carroll Grigsby  wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 15:28:18 +0100
> Lisi Reisz  wrote:
>
 whack
>>
>> This is an interesting discussion.  But perhaps if we want to
>> continue we should take it off-list?

debian-curiosa@lists... perhaps appropriate?

Some (such as I) do appreciate some diversions, esp. matters in
relation to freedom. So I'm wondering how it could go off-list?


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Re: What does this error message mean?

[Brian]

On Mon 24 Jun 2013 at 15:51:35 -0500, John W. Foster wrote:

> 
> > insserv: Script ETH1START is broken: incomplete LSB comment.
> > insserv: missing `Default-Stop:'   entry: please add even if empty.
> > insserv: Script ETH1START is broken: incomplete LSB comment.
> > insserv: missing `Default-Stop:'   entry: please add even if empty.
> > insserv: Script ETH1START is broken: incomplete LSB comment.
> > insserv: missing `Default-Stop:'   entry: please add even if empty.
> > insserv: Script ETH1START is broken: incomplete LSB comment.
> > insserv: missing `Default-Stop:'   entry: please add even if empty.
> > insserv: Default-Stop  undefined, assuming empty stop  runlevel(s) for 
> > script `ETH1START'
> > 
> > 
> 
> Anyone seen this or know how to get rid of it? Seems to happen every time I 
> use Synaptic or dselect.

Never seen such a message. But I don't have a script called ETH1START on
my system. All my scripts in /etc/init.d have lines of this form:

### BEGIN INIT INFO
# Provides:  
# Required-Start:
# Required-Stop:
# Should-Start:
# Should-Stop:
# Default-Start:
# Default-Stop:
# Short-Description:
### END INIT INFO

With information appropriate for the service, of course. 'Default-Stop:'
is an empty line for some services.


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Re: What does this error message mean?

[Bob Proulx]

John W. Foster wrote:
> > insserv: Script ETH1START is broken: incomplete LSB comment.
> > insserv: missing `Default-Stop:'   entry: please add even if empty.
> > insserv: Script ETH1START is broken: incomplete LSB comment.
> > insserv: missing `Default-Stop:'   entry: please add even if empty.
> > insserv: Script ETH1START is broken: incomplete LSB comment.
> > insserv: missing `Default-Stop:'   entry: please add even if empty.
> > insserv: Script ETH1START is broken: incomplete LSB comment.
> > insserv: missing `Default-Stop:'   entry: please add even if empty.
> > insserv: Default-Stop  undefined, assuming empty stop  runlevel(s) for 
> > script `ETH1START'
> 
> Anyone seen this or know how to get rid of it? Seems to happen every
> time I use Synaptic or dselect.

Debian requires LSB headers in all /etc/init.d/* scripts now.  You
have a file /etc/init.d/ETH1START which does not have LSB headers.
Since that isn't a standard Debian file I am sure you will recognize
the name as something that you have added to your system as a local
customization.

The naming makes me wonder why you have that file?  Why not use one of
the standard methods?

In any case, edit that file, insert LSB headers, run 'insserv' to
update the symlinks, and all will be good.  You can copy a template
form and edit it to your needs from the /etc/init.d/skeleton file.

You can get documentation on this by reading the man page.

  man insserv

Bob


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What does this error message mean?

[John W. Foster]

> insserv: Script ETH1START is broken: incomplete LSB comment.
> insserv: missing `Default-Stop:'   entry: please add even if empty.
> insserv: Script ETH1START is broken: incomplete LSB comment.
> insserv: missing `Default-Stop:'   entry: please add even if empty.
> insserv: Script ETH1START is broken: incomplete LSB comment.
> insserv: missing `Default-Stop:'   entry: please add even if empty.
> insserv: Script ETH1START is broken: incomplete LSB comment.
> insserv: missing `Default-Stop:'   entry: please add even if empty.
> insserv: Default-Stop  undefined, assuming empty stop  runlevel(s) for script 
> `ETH1START'
> 
> 

Anyone seen this or know how to get rid of it? Seems to happen every time I use 
Synaptic or dselect.



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Re: Debian Testing/Jessie

[Dom]

On 24/06/13 20:34, sp113438 wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 17:10:49 +0100
Darac Marjal  wrote:


architecture i386


does kernel linux-image-3.9.1 still supports architecture i386?




Don't confuse the architecture with the CPU model numbers.

i386 is any 32 bit x86 chip, but the i386 kernels only support Pentium 
II and later now, unless you use the _486 versions.


--
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Re: Graphic card advice

[Gary Dale]

On 24/06/13 03:54 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:

On Mon, 2013-06-24 at 12:23 -0700, Kelly Clowers wrote:

If you do need more power, I personally would go with AMD a generation
back (OSS drivers). I am not willing to use closed drivers, both for
ideology and for the hassle the create with kernel updates...others
may disagree...


I can't use a transparent xfce4-terminal with

$ grep Driver /etc/X11/xorg.conf
 ### Available Driver options are:-
 Driver  "radeon"
 #Driver"nvidia"
#Driver "nv"
#Driver "nouveau"
 #Driver "vesa"

resp. I can, but it's very slow, when moving the window etc.,
fortunately I don't need transparency. Google Earth is ok.

The proprietary driver doesn't work with current versions of X.

I don't have this issues with NVIDIA.


Probably a timing issue. Both AMD and NVidia do try to get their drivers 
to match the latest X. It's just that they aren't always quick about it. 
All the more reason to stick with open source drivers.



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Re: Graphic card advice

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 2013-06-24 at 12:23 -0700, Kelly Clowers wrote:
> If you do need more power, I personally would go with AMD a generation
> back (OSS drivers). I am not willing to use closed drivers, both for
> ideology and for the hassle the create with kernel updates...others
> may disagree...

I can't use a transparent xfce4-terminal with

$ grep Driver /etc/X11/xorg.conf 
### Available Driver options are:-
Driver  "radeon"
#Driver "nvidia"
#Driver "nv"
#Driver "nouveau"
#Driver "vesa"

resp. I can, but it's very slow, when moving the window etc.,
fortunately I don't need transparency. Google Earth is ok.

The proprietary driver doesn't work with current versions of X.

I don't have this issues with NVIDIA.


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Re: Graphic card advice

[Gary Dale]

On 24/06/13 03:23 PM, Kelly Clowers wrote:

On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 1:37 AM,  wrote:

Hi,
I am a debian user and I am looking to buy a new computer (I will build it).
I simply wonder if it is better to take a graphic card with an ATI or a
NVIDIA chipset.
Can someone please give me an advice ?


Are you going to play games, or program with OpenCL or similar?

If not, I strongly recommend using Intel integrated graphics.

If you are getting a new system it should be Sandy Bridge or Ivy
Bridge (I don't think Haswell for desktop is widely available yet?)
and the GPU in either of those is more than good enough for desktop
use. Indeed they have no problem with games like Half Life 2 on
highest settings (and I suspect much newer stuff as well - but HL2 is
about the newest thing I have personal experience with, and frankly
that is a lot of power...we just don't realize it sometimes now).

Intel has wonderfully well supported Open Source drivers (no closed
drivers at all).

If you do need more power, I personally would go with AMD a generation
back (OSS drivers). I am not willing to use closed drivers, both for
ideology and for the hassle the create with kernel updates...others
may disagree...


Cheers,
Kelly Clowers


Intel has no closed drivers because it has no cutting-edge graphics. I 
suggest that AMD/ATI graphics with open source drivers gives better 
video performance than Intel.


Moreover, AMD has been making further progress toward opening their 
source code than NVidia, so an AMD card is probably a better bet for the 
long term even if you need to use closed drivers to take full advantage 
of it for now.



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Re: Debian Testing/Jessie

[sp113438]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 17:10:49 +0100
Darac Marjal  wrote:

> architecture i386

does kernel linux-image-3.9.1 still supports architecture i386?


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Re: Separate partitions for filesystems (was Re: computer rendered un-usable)

[Jochen Spieker]

David Guntner:
> Jochen Spieker grabbed a keyboard and wrote:
>> 
>> Judging from your usage of "df -k" (instead of -g or -h) and the number
>> of filesystems, you should probably apply at IBM. :->
> 
> And yes, I had the great misfortune of being an administrator of an AIX
> system (on the subject of IBM...). :-)

My condolences. Luckily, I only need to log in to such systems (setup by
IBM GTS, I believe) on rare occasions. It is unbelievable how AIX kept
stuck in the 90s. And really, the number of filesystems on these
machines is astonishing. I think I have seen more than 30 filesystems.
More than 20 is apparently not unusual.

> Oh, I know about -h (-g doesn't work on this system (6.0.7));

That was my fault. I knew -m works and suspected -g would display
gigabytes. It doesn't.

> I just prefer the slightly-more-detailed information when showing the
> space used as 1K blocks.

Yes, sometimes that makes it easier to compare the numbers.

>> Seriously, you should really look into LVM. It provides way more
>> flexibility than DOS partitions for setups like yours.
> 
> I've heard about LVM but really don't know that much about it.  I'll
> look more into it and see what it's all about.  Thanks for the suggestion.

You will not regret it.

J.
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[Agree]   [Disagree]
 


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Re: Graphic card advice

[Kelly Clowers]

On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 1:37 AM,   wrote:
> Hi,
> I am a debian user and I am looking to buy a new computer (I will build it).
> I simply wonder if it is better to take a graphic card with an ATI or a
> NVIDIA chipset.
> Can someone please give me an advice ?

Are you going to play games, or program with OpenCL or similar?

If not, I strongly recommend using Intel integrated graphics.

If you are getting a new system it should be Sandy Bridge or Ivy
Bridge (I don't think Haswell for desktop is widely available yet?)
and the GPU in either of those is more than good enough for desktop
use. Indeed they have no problem with games like Half Life 2 on
highest settings (and I suspect much newer stuff as well - but HL2 is
about the newest thing I have personal experience with, and frankly
that is a lot of power...we just don't realize it sometimes now).

Intel has wonderfully well supported Open Source drivers (no closed
drivers at all).

If you do need more power, I personally would go with AMD a generation
back (OSS drivers). I am not willing to use closed drivers, both for
ideology and for the hassle the create with kernel updates...others
may disagree...


Cheers,
Kelly Clowers


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Backing up on obnam.

[Sharon Kimble]

I am using obnam 1.4 on wheezy with no problems, but, I am unable to back
up both /etc and /var both at the same time. I've tried 'root = /etc, /var'
and /etc is backed up but not /var.

How then can I back up /var at the same time please?

Thanks
Sharon.
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Re: Graphic card advice

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Lu, 24 iun 13, 09:48:24, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> 
> Since you're building your system, one word of advice: regardless of
> what hardware you choose, make sure it's been on the market for at
> least six months.  That gives "the community" time to write drivers and
> other support for it.  If you go with just released, "cutting
> edge" hardware, you're going to have problems until the software can
> catch up.

That's generally a good advice, since in my experience hardware 
manufacturers quite often release not-so-stable drivers with new 
hardware. 

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Fw: Debian Testing/Jessie

[Stephen P. Molnar]

Begin forwarded message:

Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 11:55:01 -0400
From: "Stephen P. Molnar" 
To: debian-user 
Subject: Debian Testing/Jessie


I have installed 64 bit Testing on my laptop in an Oracle VB as a test
bed.

I used Debian-testing-amd64-netinst.iso Binary 1 20130623-09:47 and
installed the linux-image-3.9.1-amd6 kernel and all available drivers.

The installation went very smoothly, but when I ran dpkg
--add-architecture i386 as root, although I did not get any errors
or warnings, it did not appear in Synaptic when I rebooted the system.

I need some i386 libraries in order to be able to use some of my
computational chemistry programs.

I would appreciate any pointers in the right direction to solve this
problem.

Thanks in advance.


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Wonder of wonders, suddenly I have multi-architecture!


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Re: Graphic card advice

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 2013-06-24 at 09:48 -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> (I've been using Linux for about 12 years--switched from the
> Amiga, not Windows)

I switched from the Atari ST to Linux 10 years ago, but I've got a 80286
hardware emulator mounted inside my 520ST and 4 MB PC RAM replaced the
512 KB, however, I also run DR DOS on that machine and used a lot of
98SE and XP in my life. So I'm also not a native Microsoft user, but I
guess everybody of us had to use DOS or Windows sometimes? At school, at
work?

> Nouveau didn't support 3-D anyway.

But now it does work perfectly for my NVIDIA card, that I don't use at
the moment, at least for Google Earth.

Resume: Everybody who replied, including myself prefers NVIDA. Or did I
miss a reply? A lot of people claim that the best should be Intel. I
don't know, it always was to expensive for me.



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Re: trouble formatting 3TB Seagate external HDrives. need help

[Dom]

On 24/06/13 16:55, paul condon wrote:

I have two 3TB Seagate external HDs. They were purchased from different
stores at slightly different times earlier this year, here in Colorado.
I want them to have ext4 file systems on them, excepting if someone on
this list can give a reason otherwise. I have googled and gotten a lot
of hits, which indicate to me that this is a well known problem.
Unfortunately, I have difficulty following the instructions, and all my
efforts have not reached a successful conclusion. Now with further trys,
it seems to me that stuff has been written onto the drives that needs to
be wiped off because I get messages that from the disk utility in xfce4
that it won't overwrite a disk with data on it.

So I want to use dd to wipe a complete drive.
For this I have found the following:
# dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdg bs=1M
In the above, I have already changed the HD device to sdg (from sda),
but I wonder about bs=1M. Could the process go faster with a larger
block size? What are the criteria for choosing a value for bs? And, how
long should a 3T wipe take to complete? The job has been running for
about 12 hours. Would it go faster with a different bs? Faster enough to
make the waste of 12hrs running worthwhile? Is there some way to invoke
an 'progress indicator' for dd? And, in general, is there a better way?


As people have already answered all your above questions, I'll just add 
to the last one.


Install and use dcfldd. It uses the same syntax as dd, but with some 
extra security and progress features.


If you add "sizeprobe=of" to the command list, it will use the size of 
the destination drive to show a regular progress report of MB 
transferred and %age complete.


The only issue I've found with it is that it sometimes doesn't report 
100% complete if the reporting interval isn't an exact fraction of the 
total size. It does still write the whole file though.


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Re: Separate partitions for filesystems (was Re: computer rendered un-usable)

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 2013-06-24 at 09:31 -0700, David Guntner wrote:
> I've heard about LVM but really don't know that much about it.

I tested it in a virtual machine, learned how to handle it and forget
how to handle it.

Btw. I separately mount data partitions, since this is useful for my
needs.

$ df -h
Filesystem  Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/sda935G   20G   13G  61% /
dev 1.8G 0  1.8G   0% /dev
run 1.9G  948K  1.9G   1% /run
tmpfs   1.9G 0  1.9G   0% /dev/shm
tmpfs   1.9G 0  1.9G   0% /sys/fs/cgroup
tmpfs   1.9G   92K  1.9G   1% /tmp
/dev/sdb12   48G  9.9G   35G  22% /home/music
/dev/sda11   57G   23G   32G  43% /mnt/music

There's no user "music" ;).


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Re: Debian Testing/Jessie

[Stephen P. Molnar]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 17:10:49 +0100
Darac Marjal  wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 11:55:01AM -0400, Stephen P. Molnar wrote:
> > I have installed 64 bit Testing on my laptop in an Oracle VB as a
> > test bed.
> > 
> > I used Debian-testing-amd64-netinst.iso Binary 1 20130623-09:47 and
> > installed the linux-image-3.9.1-amd6 kernel and all available
> > drivers.
> > 
> > The installation went very smoothly, but when I ran dpkg
> > --add-architecture i386 as root, although I did not get any errors
> > or warnings, it did not appear in Synaptic when I rebooted the
> > system.
> 
> You didn't need to reboot, but you do need to update your package
> lists (whatever the Synaptic equivalent of 'apt-get update' is).
> 

Thank for your answer.  Actually, I reload the package lists before
running.


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Re: Separate partitions for filesystems (was Re: computer rendered un-usable)

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 2013-06-24 at 18:09 +0200, Jochen Spieker wrote:
> David Guntner:
> > 
> > As you can see, I'm a BIG believer in separation of filesystems. 
> 
> Judging from your usage of "df -k" (instead of -g or -h) and the number
> of filesystems, you should probably apply at IBM. :->
> 
> Seriously, you should really look into LVM. It provides way more
> flexibility than DOS partitions for setups like yours.

I dislike LVM, IMO it makes handling much more complicated and doesn't
provide real advantages, OTOH since "old school unix" was mentioned, if
you like it complicated, UFS for my taste is complicated.

I never found out how to access UFS by Linux, ok I never really try to
learn how to do this. I can't access more than this:

$ sudo fdisk -l /dev/sda1

Disk /dev/sda1: 62.1 GB, 62092509696 bytes, 121274433 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk label type: dos
Disk identifier: 0x90909090

 Device Boot  Start End  Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sda1p4   *   0   4   25000   a5  FreeBSD

Strange, that it's that easy to get access to FAT and NTFS, but not to
the Unix File System ;). So perhaps Linux is closer to IBM/DOS, than to
UNIX ;p.

I'm just kidding,
Ralf


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Re: Graphic card advice

[Patrick Bartek]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013, a...@alphanet.ch wrote:

> Hi, 
> 
> I am a debian user and I am looking to buy a new computer (I will
> build it). 
> 
> I simply wonder if it is better to take a graphic card with an ATI or
> a NVIDIA chipset. 
> 
> Can someone please give me an advice ? 

I've always gone with nvidia graphics cards and motherboard chipsets as
nvidia fully supported Linux early on, and were less problematic,
regardless of which distro I was using at the time.  And I've used and
tested quite a few.

Initially (I've been using Linux for about 12 years--switched from the
Amiga, not Windows), I used the proprietary nvidia drivers as the
open-source Linux drivers were "experimental" at the time, and
had problems, but about 6 or 7 years ago when I built my current system,
I decided to test the open-source nvidia driver nv, and found it worked
just fine for my purposes. Only recently with my switch to Wheezy
64-bit from Fedora 12 64-bit have I returned to the proprietary nvidia
driver for no other reason than to see how it compared to nouveau.
No problems.  But currently I don't have any 3-D stuff, so can't test
that. Nouveau didn't support 3-D anyway.

Since you're building your system, one word of advice: regardless of
what hardware you choose, make sure it's been on the market for at
least six months.  That gives "the community" time to write drivers and
other support for it.  If you go with just released, "cutting
edge" hardware, you're going to have problems until the software can
catch up.

B


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Re: Separate partitions for filesystems (was Re: computer rendered un-usable)

[David Guntner]

Jochen Spieker grabbed a keyboard and wrote:
> David Guntner:
>>
>> As you can see, I'm a BIG believer in separation of filesystems. 
> 
> Judging from your usage of "df -k" (instead of -g or -h) and the number
> of filesystems, you should probably apply at IBM. :->

LOL - Hey, I *said* I was old-school UNIX.  I was using it before there
was Linux.

And yes, I had the great misfortune of being an administrator of an AIX
system (on the subject of IBM...). :-)  Of course, once I installed bash
and then added all of the GNU replacement utilities & commands, it was
MUCH more livable. 

Oh, I know about -h (-g doesn't work on this system (6.0.7)); I just
prefer the slightly-more-detailed information when showing the space
used as 1K blocks.

> Seriously, you should really look into LVM. It provides way more
> flexibility than DOS partitions for setups like yours.

I've heard about LVM but really don't know that much about it.  I'll
look more into it and see what it's all about.  Thanks for the suggestion.

  --Dave





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Re: computer rendered un-usable

[Hans-J. Ullrich]

Am Montag, 24. Juni 2013 schrieb Ralf Mardorf:
> Hi Hans :)
> 
> On Mon, 2013-06-24 at 17:32 +0200, Hans-J. Ullrich wrote:
> > Did I mention, I am a professionel? :)
>
This was just a little joke. :)
 
> There's no need to mention this, because this is what my guess was. All
> you've written sounds plausible, but IMO less is more for an averaged
> home PC.
> 
> However, regarding to have a separated /home (and swap ;) only my claim
> that this might be a disadvantage, is a little bit overdone. I wanted to
> take the wind out of sails, assumed there would came recommendations to
> separate e.g. /var, since FHS is under progress ;).

Yeah, that is really an important point. FHS might really a problem in the 
future, if major changes will appear. 

I do not know, if this is correct, but somebody told me this: On servers In 
the early days there were 16 root-directories, which were mounterd each on a 
seperate device. 16, because a SCSI-bus can handle 16 SCSI-drives. And each 
drive can handle 16 logical partitions, so there were max 16 Subdirectories, 
in sum 255 filedirectories. This is not really related to our little 
discussion, but I just wanted to mention it. And I repeart, I do not know, if 
it is true. Google got me no clear answer. However, I found out, there were 
originally 13 root-directories, and 3, which must not have been necessary 
below /. I forgot all, but /opt for example was one of them.
However, I like the idea, 16 drives and each partition got its own directory. 
I suppose to minimize fragmentzation and increase stabilty. 

> 
> If the FS hierarchy should change for Debian too and people want to
> upgrade from stable to testing and testing should use another hierarchy,
> such a transition is easier to do, if not too many directories have
> their own partitions.
> 

Hmm, I guess, that would not much be the problem, as you mostly need 
directories and it is unimportand, which device it is mounted to - as long, as 
it is a memory device (of course) and there is enough space available. 
Mounting keyboards is not a good idea.

> Regards,
> Ralf

Have fun!

Hans


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Re: trouble formatting 3TB Seagate external HDrives. need help

[Darac Marjal]

On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 09:55:46AM -0600, paul condon wrote:
> I have two 3TB Seagate external HDs. They were purchased from
> different stores at slightly different times earlier this year, here
> in Colorado. I want them to have ext4 file systems on them,
> excepting if someone on this list can give a reason otherwise. I
> have googled and gotten a lot of hits, which indicate to me that
> this is a well known problem. Unfortunately, I have difficulty
> following the instructions, and all my efforts have not reached a
> successful conclusion. Now with further trys, it seems to me that
> stuff has been written onto the drives that needs to be wiped off
> because I get messages that from the disk utility in xfce4 that it
> won't overwrite a disk with data on it.
> 
> So I want to use dd to wipe a complete drive.
> For this I have found the following:
> # dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdg bs=1M
> In the above, I have already changed the HD device to sdg (from
> sda), but I wonder about bs=1M. Could the process go faster with a
> larger block size? 

Possibly. There exists a tool (https://github.com/sampablokuper/dd-opt)
to help you find the fastest blocksize


> What are the criteria for choosing a value for
> bs? And, how long should a 3T wipe take to complete? The job has
> been running for about 12 hours. Would it go faster with a different
> bs? Faster enough to make the waste of 12hrs running worthwhile? Is
> there some way to invoke an 'progress indicator' for dd?

You can send SIGUSR1 to a running dd and it will print current
statistics to STDERR.

  term1$ pkill -USR1 dd

  term2$ dd if=/dev/zero ...
  0+14 records in
  0+14 records out
  204 bytes (204 B) copied, 24.92 seconds, 0.0 kB/s

Another alternative would be to run the data through pv:

  $ dd if=/dev/zero | pv | dd of=/dev/sdg bs=1M

> And, in
> general, is there a better way?

You could try just overwriting the first few megabytes of the partition.
If a mkfs is checking to see if there's already a filesystem in place,
chances are it won't look VERY hard. Wiping out the start of the disk
should make it look 'clean enough'. So add "count=N" (where N is a small
number) to your dd command line.



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Re: trouble formatting 3TB Seagate external HDrives. need help

[Brad Sawatzky]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013, paul condon wrote:

> I have two 3TB Seagate external HDs. They were purchased from
> different stores at slightly different times earlier this year, here
> in Colorado. I want them to have ext4 file systems on them,
> excepting if someone on this list can give a reason otherwise. I

Ext4 is a good option.

> have googled and gotten a lot of hits, which indicate to me that
> this is a well known problem. Unfortunately, I have difficulty
> following the instructions, and all my efforts have not reached a
> successful conclusion. Now with further trys, it seems to me that
> stuff has been written onto the drives that needs to be wiped off
> because I get messages that from the disk utility in xfce4 that it
> won't overwrite a disk with data on it.

Note that old versions of fdisk, parted, etc can't handle 3TB drives
properly.  If you're running the latest release of Debian (Wheezy) you
should be OK though -- if not, be careful.

Some ancient SATA cards and quite a few USB adapters can't handle 3TB
drives at all -- make sure that 'unformatted size' is reported correctly
and you're probably OK.

> So I want to use dd to wipe a complete drive.  For this I have found
> the following:
> # dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdg bs=1M

It's very unlikely that you need to wipe the full drive.  You may just
have to clear metadata at the front.  This would do that:
  dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdg bs=1M count=1

> In the above, I have already changed the HD device to sdg (from
> sda), but I wonder about bs=1M. Could the process go faster with a
> larger block size? 

Not really.  bs=1M is fine for what is being discussed.  dd just pushes
'count' data blocks of size 'bs' through to its output (/dev/sdg in your
example).  You can hit performance issues if the chosen bs clashes with
an internal cache and/or the native block size of the disk, but that
requires small (kB'ish) block sizes.

> What are the criteria for choosing a value for bs? And, how long
> should a 3T wipe take to complete? The job has been running for about

  (3*1024*1024 MB)/(200 MB/sec) / (3600 sec/hour) = 4.3 hours

200 MB/sec may be optimistic.  I get 180 MB/sec on my (mediocre) system.
Note that if you're connected with USB2, then you're looking at 10
MB/sec and 86 hours...

> 12 hours. Would it go faster with a different bs? Faster enough to
> make the waste of 12hrs running worthwhile? Is there some way to
> invoke an 'progress indicator' for dd? And, in general, is there a
> better way?

From 'man dd' (towards the end):
  Sending a USR1 signal to a running `dd' process makes it print I/O statistics
  to standard error and then resume copying.

  $ dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/null& pid=$!
  $ kill -USR1 $pid; sleep 1; kill $pid

  18335302+0  records  in 18335302+0 records out 9387674624 bytes (9.4 GB) 
copied, 34.6279 seconds, 271 MB/s

-- Brad


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Re: trouble formatting 3TB Seagate external HDrives. need help

[Jochen Spieker]

paul condon:
>
> I have two 3TB Seagate external HDs. They were purchased from
> different stores at slightly different times earlier this year, here
> in Colorado. I want them to have ext4 file systems on them,
> excepting if someone on this list can give a reason otherwise.

Ext4 is fine if you don't have any special needs. If you only use it for
comparably big files (movies, music, photos), you might want to use
mkfs.ext4 -T big. The -m option is probably interesting, too.

> I have googled and gotten a lot of hits, which indicate to me that
> this is a well known problem. Unfortunately, I have difficulty
> following the instructions, and all my efforts have not reached a
> successful conclusion. Now with further trys, it seems to me that
> stuff has been written onto the drives that needs to be wiped off
> because I get messages that from the disk utility in xfce4 that it
> won't overwrite a disk with data on it.

We cannot help if you don't tell us what you tried and how it failed.
But generally, overwriting the first megabyte is enough to make the disk
look unpartitioned/unused.

dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdg bs=1M count=1

> So I want to use dd to wipe a complete drive.

Should not be necessary and can take a long time. 3TB is about
2,861,023MiB. If your disk could write 100MiB/s, it would still need
almost eight hours to complete this task. Apparently, your disk is
slower than that.

> For this I have found the following:
> # dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdg bs=1M
> In the above, I have already changed the HD device to sdg (from
> sda), but I wonder about bs=1M. Could the process go faster with a
> larger block size?

I doubt it, but you can try. You can add a parameter "count=" like I
did above to write only  times bytes (bs).

> Is there some way to invoke an 'progress indicator' for dd?

Yes. See the man page:

| Sending a USR1 signal to a running `dd' process makes it print I/O
| statistics to standard error and then resume copying.
|
|$ dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/null& pid=$!
|$ kill -USR1 $pid; sleep 1; kill $pid
|
|18335302+0  records  in  18335302+0  records out 9387674624
|bytes (9.4 GB) copied, 34.6279 seconds, 271 MB/s

> And, in general, is there a better way?

Just don't do that. :)

J.
-- 
In an ideal world I would cure poverty and go to the gym at least three
days a week.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
 


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Re: Separate partitions for filesystems (was Re: computer rendered un-usable)

[Jochen Spieker]

David Guntner:
> 
> As you can see, I'm a BIG believer in separation of filesystems. 

Judging from your usage of "df -k" (instead of -g or -h) and the number
of filesystems, you should probably apply at IBM. :->

Seriously, you should really look into LVM. It provides way more
flexibility than DOS partitions for setups like yours.

J.
-- 
If I could travel through time I would go back to yesterday and
apologise.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
 


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Re: Debian Testing/Jessie

[Darac Marjal]

On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 11:55:01AM -0400, Stephen P. Molnar wrote:
> I have installed 64 bit Testing on my laptop in an Oracle VB as a test
> bed.
> 
> I used Debian-testing-amd64-netinst.iso Binary 1 20130623-09:47 and
> installed the linux-image-3.9.1-amd6 kernel and all available drivers.
> 
> The installation went very smoothly, but when I ran dpkg
> --add-architecture i386 as root, although I did not get any errors
> or warnings, it did not appear in Synaptic when I rebooted the system.

You didn't need to reboot, but you do need to update your package lists
(whatever the Synaptic equivalent of 'apt-get update' is).



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Re: Separate partitions for filesystems (was Re: computer rendered un-usable)

[Hans-J. Ullrich]

Am Montag, 24. Juni 2013 schrieb David Guntner:
> Hans-J. Ullrich grabbed a keyboard and wrote:
> > Oh, and please do not misunderstand. Of course, I know, that an extra
> > partition is not really needed for /home. It is just a nice-to-have. I
> > just wanted to point on things, which might be an advantage for one or
> > another users needs or wishes.
> 
> I guess I'm just way too "old school" UNIX for this day and age :-)
> 
> $ df -k
> Filesystem   1K-blocks  Used Available Use% Mounted on
> /dev/sda5  1818872246072   1480336  15% /
> tmpfs  1547604 0   1547604   0% /lib/init/rw
> udev   1542716   228   1542488   1% /dev
> tmpfs  1547604   580   1547024   1% /dev/shm
> /dev/sda1   137221 17896112004  14% /boot
> /dev/sda1267284600  14872800  48993896  24% /home
> /dev/sda9 28835836332044  27039012   2% /opt
> /dev/sda6  2882592 70240   2665920   3% /tmp
> /dev/sda7 28835836   5551880  21819176  21% /usr
> /dev/sda8 48060296  15360892  30258036  34% /usr/local
> /dev/sda1028835836803776  26567280   3% /var
> /dev/sda1128835836177024  27194032   1% /var/spool
> $
> 
> As you can see, I'm a BIG believer in separation of filesystems. 
> 
>   --Dave
Me too.
rootfs  7225964  5698580   1153628   84% /
udev  102400 102400% /dev
tmpfs 206012  6842053281% /run
/dev/disk/by-uuid/4a3f4888-aefb-4bee-a23d-3c03ec22c9d7   7225964  5698580   
1153628   84% /
tmpfs   51200  51200% /run/lock
tmpfs96558009655800% /run/shm
/dev/sdb3  24889531001205042   14% /boot
/dev/mapper/home  30104528 19979556   8589076   70%
/home
/dev/mapper/usr   20025212 13781072   5220244   73% /usr
/dev/mapper/var9945964  3686736   5747332   40% /var

And look, encryption is important for me.

Best 

Hans





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Re: computer rendered un-usable

[Ralf Mardorf]

Hi Hans :)

On Mon, 2013-06-24 at 17:32 +0200, Hans-J. Ullrich wrote:
> Did I mention, I am a professionel? :)

There's no need to mention this, because this is what my guess was. All
you've written sounds plausible, but IMO less is more for an averaged
home PC.

However, regarding to have a separated /home (and swap ;) only my claim
that this might be a disadvantage, is a little bit overdone. I wanted to
take the wind out of sails, assumed there would came recommendations to
separate e.g. /var, since FHS is under progress ;).

If the FS hierarchy should change for Debian too and people want to
upgrade from stable to testing and testing should use another hierarchy,
such a transition is easier to do, if not too many directories have
their own partitions.

The latest, but not the first hierarchy changes from a distro I'm using:

$ ls -l /*bin
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 7 May 31 20:40 /bin -> usr/bin
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 7 May 31 20:40 /sbin -> usr/bin
$ ls -ld /usr/*bin
drwxr-xr-x 6 root root 90112 Jun 23 23:53 /usr/bin
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 3 May 31 20:40 /usr/sbin -> bin
$ ls -l /lib*
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 7 May 31 20:40 /lib -> usr/lib
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 7 May 31 20:40 /lib64 -> usr/lib
$ ls -ld /usr/lib*
drwxr-xr-x 214 root root 135168 Jun 23 23:53 /usr/lib
drwxr-xr-x  23 root root  36864 Jun 23 20:39 /usr/lib32
lrwxrwxrwx   1 root root  3 May 31 20:40 /usr/lib64 -> lib

Before that, the links were directories including binaries and
libraries.

Regards,
Ralf


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trouble formatting 3TB Seagate external HDrives. need help

[paul condon]

I have two 3TB Seagate external HDs. They were purchased from different 
stores at slightly different times earlier this year, here in Colorado. 
I want them to have ext4 file systems on them, excepting if someone on 
this list can give a reason otherwise. I have googled and gotten a lot 
of hits, which indicate to me that this is a well known problem. 
Unfortunately, I have difficulty following the instructions, and all my 
efforts have not reached a successful conclusion. Now with further trys, 
it seems to me that stuff has been written onto the drives that needs to 
be wiped off because I get messages that from the disk utility in xfce4 
that it won't overwrite a disk with data on it.


So I want to use dd to wipe a complete drive.
For this I have found the following:
# dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdg bs=1M
In the above, I have already changed the HD device to sdg (from sda), 
but I wonder about bs=1M. Could the process go faster with a larger 
block size? What are the criteria for choosing a value for bs? And, how 
long should a 3T wipe take to complete? The job has been running for 
about 12 hours. Would it go faster with a different bs? Faster enough to 
make the waste of 12hrs running worthwhile? Is there some way to invoke 
an 'progress indicator' for dd? And, in general, is there a better way?


TIA
paul


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Debian Testing/Jessie

[Stephen P. Molnar]

I have installed 64 bit Testing on my laptop in an Oracle VB as a test
bed.

I used Debian-testing-amd64-netinst.iso Binary 1 20130623-09:47 and
installed the linux-image-3.9.1-amd6 kernel and all available drivers.

The installation went very smoothly, but when I ran dpkg
--add-architecture i386 as root, although I did not get any errors
or warnings, it did not appear in Synaptic when I rebooted the system.

I need some i386 libraries in order to be able to use some of my
computational chemistry programs.

I would appreciate any pointers in the right direction to solve this
problem.

Thanks in advance.


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Separate partitions for filesystems (was Re: computer rendered un-usable)

[David Guntner]

Hans-J. Ullrich grabbed a keyboard and wrote:
> Oh, and please do not misunderstand. Of course, I know, that an extra 
> partition is not really needed for /home. It is just a nice-to-have. I just 
> wanted to point on things, which might be an advantage for one or another 
> users needs or wishes.

I guess I'm just way too "old school" UNIX for this day and age :-)

$ df -k
Filesystem   1K-blocks  Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/sda5  1818872246072   1480336  15% /
tmpfs  1547604 0   1547604   0% /lib/init/rw
udev   1542716   228   1542488   1% /dev
tmpfs  1547604   580   1547024   1% /dev/shm
/dev/sda1   137221 17896112004  14% /boot
/dev/sda1267284600  14872800  48993896  24% /home
/dev/sda9 28835836332044  27039012   2% /opt
/dev/sda6  2882592 70240   2665920   3% /tmp
/dev/sda7 28835836   5551880  21819176  21% /usr
/dev/sda8 48060296  15360892  30258036  34% /usr/local
/dev/sda1028835836803776  26567280   3% /var
/dev/sda1128835836177024  27194032   1% /var/spool
$

As you can see, I'm a BIG believer in separation of filesystems. 

  --Dave




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Re: computer rendered un-usable

[Hans-J. Ullrich]

Am Montag, 24. Juni 2013 schrieb Ralf Mardorf:
> On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 11:52:34 +0200, Hans-J. Ullrich 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Hans :)
> 
Hi Ralf,
> In my home there are exactly those configs you mentioned, but no data,
> such as large audio productions, just a few pics etc., however, if my
> Linux gets broken I restore it from a backup, including my home. Even for
> a new install I could restore /home from a backup, this isn't work and
> only takes minutes. When doing the backups I even can backup folder
> separated.
> 
Yes, but iMO the problem is not the data, mor the mass of settings, people 
store in their /home. I have, for example a lot of different passwords on lots 
of sites, stored in an encrypted database. Not to think of, if they would have 
beeen gone. (But do not fear, I am a professionell - I have a backup available 
:)  )

> Now we could extend this discussion. I for example use MBR with averaged
> partitioning when ever possible, because IMO it's the most comfortable to
> use ;).

Of course, I also have an image available of my whole drive. 
> 
> > Third, security. You can just encrypt the /home partition, whilst the
> > rest of the system can be left in unencrypted state (especially better
> > for
> > troubleshooting purposes)
> 
> You can encrypt the /home folder too ;).
> 

This is, what I did, too. Did I mention, I am a professionel? :)

> > Fourth, if you are using /home on an own device, you can carry it around,
> > while got every personal setting with you.
> 
> You can copy the data to something smaller, if you need those settings
> elsewhere. I never did and I guess we aren't talking about an averaged
> home PC anymore.
> 

This is all right, if you do not need a lots of data. Sometiomes a floppy disk 
will even be enough. However, I might imagine people, who might want to carry 
theire data and theire settings around

Oh, and please do not misunderstand. Of course, I know, that an extra 
partition is not really needed for /home. It is just a nice-to-have. I just 
wanted to point on things, which might be an advantage for one or another 
users needs or wishes. 

It is linux, free software, really free, and each should use it, in any way he 
wants to use it. And THIS is the greatest advantage!

> Regards,
> Ralf

Happy hacking and best regards

Hans


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Re: wacky question

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 2013-06-24 at 11:01 -0400, Carroll Grigsby wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 15:28:18 +0100
> Lisi Reisz  wrote:
> 
> >>> whack
> >
> > This is an interesting discussion.  But perhaps if we want to
> > continue we should take it off-list?
>  
> Please do.

I several time tried to switch _this thread_ to

http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic

http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/d-community-offtopic/2013-June/date.html

This list was made for such discussion.



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Re: wacky question

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 2013-06-24 at 15:28 +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> And disturbing that he could see the seeds so 
> long ago.

Somebody already explained that this is the nature of beings. We didn't
change that much, even philosophers 2000 years before Orwell have seen
this.

> I fear our governnments more than I fear the things from which they claim to 
> protect us.

Our governments make a lot of evil things without our permissions, but
there are reasons for people seek asylum in "evil" countries like the
USA, France, Great Britain, Germany etc. ;). Lees people flew from the
USA to Mexico or from Germany to Serbia ;).

> This is an interesting discussion.  But perhaps if we want to continue we 
> should take it off-list

http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic



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Re: wacky question

[Carroll Grigsby]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 15:28:18 +0100
Lisi Reisz  wrote:

>>> whack
>
> This is an interesting discussion.  But perhaps if we want to
> continue we should take it off-list?
 
Please do.

-- cmg 


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Re: Strange amounts of cpu usage

[Karl E. Jorgensen]

On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 03:24:13PM +0100, John Tate wrote:
> I have a process using 339% of CPU on Debian Wheezy.
> 
> john@fekete:~$ ps aux | grep shallot
> john 31424  339  0.0 175088  1576 pts/9Rl+  23:02   1:38
> shallot -f keys/test ^
> 
> This is rather weird.

Not really. A process may have many threads - so the total can exceed a single 
CPU.

However: if you only have TWO cpus (according to /proc/cpuinfo) then yes: that 
is weird.

-- 
Karl E. Jorgensen


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Re: NAS raid with Debian?

[Andrew McGlashan]

Hi,

On 5/04/2013 6:49 AM, Celejar wrote:
> FWIW, I've been running Debian Wheezy on a Seagate Go Flex Net
> (STAK100 - http://projects.doozan.com/debian/) for a while, with pretty
> good results. It's a Kirkwood system with 128MB RAM, 256MB NAND, 2 SATA
> connectors, 1 USB port and Gigabit ethernet

I'm looking at installing Debian on one of these:

http://www.megabuy.com.au/seagate-stbf500300-goflex-satellite-500gb-mobile-wireless-portable-hard-drive-p10274465.html

It has built in wireless capability (and battery) with the 500GB disk.

A serious limitation of the unit is that it creates it's "own" WiFi
network and doesn't participate in an existing WiFi network that's
what I really want to fix.

The firmware download includes a uImage file as follows:

# file uImage
uImage: u-boot legacy uImage, Linux-2.6.32, Linux/ARM, OS Kernel Image
(Not compressed), 2313388 bytes, Tue Dec 20 21:36:47 2011, Load Address:
0x80008000, Entry Point: 0x80008000, Header CRC: 0x01B18018, Data CRC:
0x0AA8AC17

So, I'm hoping that it will be possible to make this unit much more
useful as a very portable Debian box.

Cheers
AndrewM


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Re: NAS raid with Debian?

[Andrew McGlashan]

Hi,

On 4/04/2013 8:37 PM, Chris Davies wrote:
> Roll your own with an HP Proliant microserver (the N40L series that are
> just being replaced). I bought mine for about £120 a couple of months
> ago. Add a pair of 3TB disks also at £100 each. Add more memory (it comes
> with 2GB; I replaced that with 8GB) and a second NIC if required. Power
> usage is fairly steady at 7W. The resulting cost is towards your upper
> end but it's a (very) good piece of kit.

Yes, I set up an N40L version for a customer, it was very straight
forward with current stable (Wheezy)

Then I bought an N54L unit for myself and installed 16GB of RAM -- some
doco says it only takes maximum 8GB, but I've got 16GB running fine.

Cheaper than my old DNS-343 units and much faster.

Very happy with this kit, and it's an AMD processor, so X64_AMD is the
way to go.

Cheers
AndrewM


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Re: Strange amounts of cpu usage

[Jochen Spieker]

John Tate:
>
> I have a process using 339% of CPU on Debian Wheezy.

Depending on the tool in use, 100% equals one CPU core.

> john@fekete:~$ ps aux | grep shallot
> john 31424  339  0.0 175088  1576 pts/9Rl+  23:02   1:38
> shallot -f keys/test ^

From ps(1):

%cpu  %CPU   cpu utilization of the process in "##.#" format.
 Currently, it is the CPU time used divided by the time the
 process has been running (cputime/realtime ratio),
 expressed as a percentage.

All is well.

J.
-- 
I wear a lot of leather but would never wear fur.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
 


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Re: wacky question

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 24 June 2013 12:57:01 André Nunes Batista wrote:
> Since I was the one who first pointed out 1984, I guess I should add
> another comment.
>
> I do not meant we actually live in Orwell's society. I used an hyperbole
> as mean to purposefully disregard the differences in fiction and point
> out how far his "distopia" went on to describe something very prevalent
> on our societies: surveillance and behavior control, aka, fascism, and
> the use of "tech" to put this on practice.

That is exactly how I understood what you said.  I think that you were totally 
clear.

It was Joel Rees with whom I disagreed.  I still say that 1984 is not an 
allegory.  It is not symbolic of anything; it is itself.

I entirely agree with what you say here.  It is disturbing how like Orwell's 
distopia our modern world is.  And disturbing that he could see the seeds so 
long ago.

I fear our governnments more than I fear the things from which they claim to 
protect us.

Lisi

This is an interesting discussion.  But perhaps if we want to continue we 
should take it off-list?


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Strange amounts of cpu usage

[John Tate]

I have a process using 339% of CPU on Debian Wheezy.

john@fekete:~$ ps aux | grep shallot
john 31424  339  0.0 175088  1576 pts/9Rl+  23:02   1:38
shallot -f keys/test ^

This is rather weird.


--
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Re: Graphic card advice

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 2013-06-24 at 15:04 +0300, Alex Moonshine wrote:
> So if you don't mind using proprietary drivers, I would recommend
> sticking with Nvidia.

+1 for NVIDA, but the license for the proprietary driver is an issue,
when using a kernel-rt, IOW it can't always be used, at least you need
to offend a license and to hack some code. Nouvea nowadays usually works
like a charm, but still could cause issues. I remounted my NVIDIA and
use the on-board ATI, from time to time I need to switch between both
cards. NVIDI IMO is the better choice, but at the moment I've to use
ATI.



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Re: wacky question

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 2013-06-24 at 08:57 -0300, André Nunes Batista wrote:
> Germany lost ww2, soviets lost cold war, fascism won them both.

Fascism in Germany lose. Germany doesn't suppress other nations anymore,
the government doesn't suppress it's own people anymore, we don't have a
GDR anymore. Socialism and communism are dead and capitalism can't stay
forever. Sure, the banks still are much to mighty.

There's a big difference between something that isn't good, unfairness
etc. and real fascism.

Regarding nowadays data protection, we should be aware that evolution of
technology overrun social evolution, this will be fixed within the next
hundred years.



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Re: installed cups-pdf package; now what?

[Brian]

On Sun 23 Jun 2013 at 23:39:30 -0700, Dan B. wrote:

> Where are the instructions for what to do after installing the cups-pdf
> package, to have the virtual to-PDF printer appear (e.g. in "lpstat -a"
> output) and be able to print to PDF?
> 
> The files /usr/share/doc/cups-pdf/... don't seem to have any such
> instructions.
> 
> (I tried using the CUPS administration tool at http://localhost:631/admin,
> but it's unclear how to proceed (e.g., what Make and Model would I use).)

lpstat should show the PDF print queue when issued on the machine which
cups-pdf has been installed to. For other machines on the network you
have to share it. This can be done from the web interface by modifying
the printer from 'Administration'. The PPD is under 'Generic'.

Or

   service cups stop

and edit /etc/cups/printers.conf to have 'Shared Yes'. And then

   service cups start


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Re: Graphic card advice

[Alex Moonshine]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 10:37:38 +0200
a...@alphanet.ch wrote:


> I simply wonder if it is better to take a graphic card with an ATI or
> a NVIDIA chipset. 

I've had all kinds of problems with ATI proprietary drivers (fglrx),
from missing hardware acceleration to freezing desktop and
awful font rendering. Sometimes both fglrx and fglrx-legacy failed to
install at all. Opensource drivers did the job for me on the older
cards, but they lack support of the new hardware.
I never had any issues with proprietary Nvidia drivers, which is
the reason I didn't use nouveau much. 
So if you don't mind using proprietary drivers, I would recommend
sticking with Nvidia.

Best wishes,
Alex


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Re: wacky question

[André Nunes Batista]

Since I was the one who first pointed out 1984, I guess I should add
another comment.

I do not meant we actually live in Orwell's society. I used an hyperbole
as mean to purposefully disregard the differences in fiction and point
out how far his "distopia" went on to describe something very prevalent
on our societies: surveillance and behavior control, aka, fascism, and
the use of "tech" to put this on practice.

On these topics, I would very much recommend "Surveiller et Punir" by
Michel Foucault, among others. Not that his "ouvre" would more
accurately depic our societies "high-tech" or dynamics, but it certainly
points out that behavior control and surveillance were brought up
together with humanism and enlightment.

Through Germany and Soviet Union are the only countries publicly
despised as totalitarians, fascism is something that pervades western
thought in a much more profound way and currently the states are
imposing on humanity a much greater loss than concentration camps and
gulags. Germany lost ww2, soviets lost cold war, fascism won them both.

Regards,

-- 

Luther Blisset
GNUPG/PGP KEY: 6722CF80

I challenge you to play the game in which there is no loser but
everything is fun and worthwhile!



--- Begin Message ---

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 07:55:44 +0200, Slavko  wrote:

Dňa 24. 6. 2013 2:26 Joel Rees  wrote / napísal(a):
!984 and Animal Farm were allegories of the world the authors lived in,  
not predictions of some dystopian future.


These two things (author's world and prediction of the future) are not
mutual exclusive ;-)


And it's not true that we're living in Orwells 1984, we didn't in 1984 and  
we don't do it today, examples for steps in the other direction, e.g.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liechtenstein_women's_suffrage_referendum,_1984

1. Januar 2011 nobody in Germany is forced to join the armed forces  
anymore, I still got a criminal record a little bit after 1984 for not  
doing this.


Please don't claim that everything is that evil. I'm fighting for human  
rights etc. and I'm an anarchist, but western democracy, with all it's  
negative aspects isn't that totalitarian as many people claim.


People who are 30, 40 and more years old might remember that some years  
ago gays, women, people with a black skin etc. had a much harder life, see  
above, Liechtenstein women's suffrage referendum and than google for  
Sharia.


I agree that what the NSA and others do is wrong, bad, evil, but note,  
women get allowed to vote and the Islamic nations want to obtrude the  
Sharia.


If we criticize on side, we need to take a look at the whole situation. We  
don't live in Orwells 1984 and we have people who will force us to follow  
their religious crap, they terrorize us.


Don't get me wrong, we should fight for data protection, we should  
criticize our governments, they aren't our leaders, they are our  
employees. We have much mafis we shouldn't have, bankers, foot mafi etc.,  
but we are free to fight against this. Muck in, do social work etc. and  
don't claim we are living in dictatorships. We don't life in little  
ponyland, but that is something different to a dictatorships.


And if people won't muck in they simply could stop too use latest  
Zuckerberg crap etc..


Don't say "the politicians are evil" and then "I won't be  
self-responsible, I want politicians who do everything for me".



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Re: wacky question

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 24 June 2013 12:45:25 Lars Noodén wrote:
> On 06/24/2013 02:41 PM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > So it is remarkable that he was able to predict so accurately what would
> > be done with computers and CCTV (which had not of course been invented).
>
> I think some of that has less to do with actual prediction than it has
> to do with many individuals misinterpreting the message.  They have been
> using his books as templates of how things should be and working to make
> a world described in his books.

:-)

Lisi


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Re: Graphic card advice

[Antti Talsta]

On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 10:37:38AM +0200, a...@alphanet.ch wrote:
> I simply wonder if it is better to take a graphic card with an ATI
> or a NVIDIA chipset.

I've had zero trouble with NVIDIA cards. Might be best not to buy the
latest and greatest though.

-- 
Antti Talsta


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Re: wacky question

[Lars Noodén]

On 06/24/2013 02:41 PM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> So it is remarkable that he was able to predict so accurately what would be 
> done with computers and CCTV (which had not of course been invented).  

I think some of that has less to do with actual prediction than it has
to do with many individuals misinterpreting the message.  They have been
using his books as templates of how things should be and working to make
a world described in his books.

Regards
/Lars



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Re: wacky question

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 24 June 2013 12:08:11 Joel Rees wrote:
> > He was not a scientist,
>
> You don't have to be a scientist to predict the future.

No, but he was not in fact "in the know" about recent scientific developments, 
nor the way that science was moving.  A scientist at the cutting edge might 
have had a better knowledge of where research was leading.

So it is remarkable that he was able to predict so accurately what would be 
done with computers and CCTV (which had not of course been invented).  
Electronic computers had only just been invented, were ginormous, very low 
powered, and were used only by the military.  TV was in its infancy.  The 
first photocopier as we know photocopiers was not made until over ten years 
after this book was written.

Eric Blair (pen name George Orwell) was a remarkable man in many ways.

Lisi


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Re: wacky question

[Joel Rees]

On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 6:16 PM, Lisi Reisz  wrote:

> On Monday 24 June 2013 01:26:01 Joel Rees wrote:
> > !984 and Animal Farm were allegories of the world the authors
>
> author, singular.  There was only one George Orwell.
>

My goodness. You're right.

I suppose it would have helped my memory if 1984 hadn't given me such a
headache, and if I had been able to sit still to read Animal Farm when I
was a teenager.

Have to admit, Heinlein, Bradbury, and Pohl were easier to read back then.
Forty years down the road and I find myself re-visiting the books that were
hard back then, and finding them very readable. And much more meaningful.
Hadn't gotten back to Animal Farm, I think it may be time.

> lived in, not
> > predictions of some dystopian future.
> He was not a scientist,


You don't have to be a scientist to predict the future.


> and most of the "science" in 1984 did not exist in
> 1948/9.  "1984" was an imaginative projection of what he saw as current
> trends into a resulting dystopian future.
>

It was still an allegory of the world around him. And around us. People who
get in government and start thinking they know better than the rest of us
have always been around, and they pretty much tend to do the same things.
And we tend to get caught up in the wrong battles and find ourselves
converted to their world. And conflate the government's stupidities with
God's intent for us to learn hard lessons.


> "Animal Farm" was indeed allegorical and referred to the past and present,
> not
> the future.  But it was also very much dystopian.
>

Again, people don't change. The adults, well, some of them, in my teenage
world were concerned that the US was just taking a longer track down the
same path as the Soviet Union, and their concern was well-founded. We are
in their future now, and the US is one step over the line on losing our
Constitution, and one step away from totalitarianism.

Much though Ralf's assertions that many things have changed for the better
over that time are correct.

Unless there isn't a major course correction, there won't be much time left
until the erstwhile "minorities" find themselves, along with us white
trash, "less equal than the {ruling-class}.

What this has to do with operating systems is that operating systems are
one of the battle grounds where the armies are gathering on their way to
the big war.

Privacy is not about our personal right to whimsy so much as it is about
keeping the governments from inserting their taps into the local control
lines and trying to assert non-local control through the social context, to
the ends of their own whimsy.

And we users need to become more involved with the development processes,
or we will find ourselves ill-prepared for the trench wars.

>
> Lisi
>

--
Joel Rees, feeling a little embarrassed at the melodramatic tone this rant
has taken

Re: computer rendered un-usable

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 11:52:34 +0200, Hans-J. Ullrich   
wrote:


Hi Hans :)


First, when your system is so bad damaged, that you need to reinstall the
complete OS, all the setting of the can stay untouchable. These are  
passwords, desktop settings, addressbooks and whatever.


In my home there are exactly those configs you mentioned, but no data,  
such as large audio productions, just a few pics etc., however, if my  
Linux gets broken I restore it from a backup, including my home. Even for  
a new install I could restore /home from a backup, this isn't work and  
only takes minutes. When doing the backups I even can backup folder  
separated.


Second, when space is getting low on /home, it is easy to add a new  
device and put users data onto it on the new device. This can be also  
done while the
system is running (special hardware needed). This might be more  
important on
servers, but may also become important on desktp systems or notebooks  
with 2

harddrives built in.


Now we could extend this discussion. I for example use MBR with averaged  
partitioning when ever possible, because IMO it's the most comfortable to  
use ;).


Third, security. You can just encrypt the /home partition, whilst the  
rest of the system can be left in unencrypted state (especially better  
for

troubleshooting purposes)


You can encrypt the /home folder too ;).


Fourth, if you are using /home on an own device, you can carry it around,
while got every personal setting with you.


You can copy the data to something smaller, if you need those settings  
elsewhere. I never did and I guess we aren't talking about an averaged  
home PC anymore.


Regards,
Ralf


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Re: computer rendered un-usable

[Hans-J. Ullrich]

> Yes, for the swap I agree, regarding to /home there aren't real advantages
> on a home PC, when disk space was expensive it had a disadvantage, since
> the user had to take care how to allocate the disk space.
> 
> Mounting / as r only isn't really needed, if you install a new Linux and
> you want to keep /home, havnig it not separated from / isn't really a
> disadvantage.
> 
> What advantages should there be? Why not directly go the completely
> obsolete root and have a partition for /boot, /tmp, /var? Yes, it makes
> sense for some machines, but please explain the benefits for most,
> averaged home PCs.
> 
> We audio production folks for sure have reasons not only to use a
> separated partition, but a completely separated second or third hard disk.
> Would you recommend to do the same for people who don't do audio
> productions, just for media player usage?
> 
> Regards,
> Ralf

Hi Ralf, 

I disagree with you. IMO putting /home on a seperate partition has a lot of 
advantages.

First, when your system is so bad damaged, that you need to reinstall the 
complete OS, all the setting of the can stay untouchable. These are passwords, 
desktop settings, addressbooks and whatever. 

Second, when space is getting low on /home, it is easy to add a new device and 
put users data onto it on the new device. This can be also done while the 
system is running (special hardware needed). This might be more important on 
servers, but may also become important on desktp systems or notebooks with 2 
harddrives built in.

Third, security. You can just encrypt the /home partition, whilst the rest of 
the system can be left in unencrypted state (especially better for 
troubleshooting purposes)

Fourth, if you are using /home on an own device, you can carry it around, 
while got every personal setting with you.

There might be a lot more advantages, but these are IMO the most obvious.

Happy hacking

Hans  


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Re: fglrx not working with Radon 7770 HD and kernel 3.9-1

[Max Linke]

I still have the 3.2.0-3 kernel installed and when I use the driver
their everything works, nothing else is changed. So think that the
fglrx driver and Xserver I have installed now work together.


On Sun, 23 Jun 2013 20:28:35 +0200
Ralf Mardorf  wrote:

> Catalyst versions only run with some versions of X and some cards are
> only provided by some versions of Catalyst.
> 
> Current "Catalyst doesn't support xorg-server 1.14.
> Catalyst < 12.10 and Catalyst Legacy do not support xorg-server 1.13.
> Catalyst < 12.6 doesn't support xorg-server 1.12." -
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/AMD_Catalyst#Xorg_repositories
> 
> This should be equal for Debian.
> 
> 


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Re: Graphic card advice

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 10:37:38 +0200,  wrote:
I simply wonder if it is better to take a graphic card with an ATI or a  
NVIDIA chipset.


I experienced the FLOSS driver for NVIDA as working better for e.g.  
transparent windows, than the ATI one. Regarding to the proprietary  
drivers ATI doesn't support many cards for each version of Catalyst and  
some older versions of Catalyst won't run on new versions of X, while the  
proprietary NVIDIA driver usually does support many NVIDIA cards and even  
older versions usually can be used with newer versions of X.


So NVIDIA is better than ATI, but IMO it's not important what's integrated  
to the mobo. If everything on the mobo is good, just the graphics should  
be an ATI, I anyway would try using the ATI and if it won't work as  
needed, I would get an NVIDA card, for less money.


2 Cents,
Ralf


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Re: computer rendered un-usable

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 10:59:46 +0200, Chris Bannister  
 wrote:

On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 07:46:11AM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:

On Sat, 2013-06-22 at 22:56 -0400, Doug wrote:
> /  and /home  and /swap.

It usually makes no sense to have it on separated partitions.


Not sure what you mean here, but having /home on a separate partition
makes a lot of sense. And of course, swap is usually on its own
partition.


Yes, for the swap I agree, regarding to /home there aren't real advantages  
on a home PC, when disk space was expensive it had a disadvantage, since  
the user had to take care how to allocate the disk space.


Mounting / as r only isn't really needed, if you install a new Linux and  
you want to keep /home, havnig it not separated from / isn't really a  
disadvantage.


What advantages should there be? Why not directly go the completely  
obsolete root and have a partition for /boot, /tmp, /var? Yes, it makes  
sense for some machines, but please explain the benefits for most,  
averaged home PCs.


We audio production folks for sure have reasons not only to use a  
separated partition, but a completely separated second or third hard disk.  
Would you recommend to do the same for people who don't do audio  
productions, just for media player usage?


Regards,
Ralf


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Re: GNOME 3 non-responsive?

[Stephen Allen]

On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 05:02:39PM +0100, MRH wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I run Debian wheezy/sid. After recent updates (resulting in mix of
> GNOME 3.4 / 3.8 the new gnome shell has became unresponsive. I mean
> I can log in, but then there is no top panel, no window top frames
> (so I cannot minimise / close windows), I cannot access windows /
> activities. To log off I need to use Alt-F2 and run
> gnome-session-quit, or just kill a session from a console.
> 
> gnome-classic works though.
> 
> Anyone else has experienced that problem, is it 'fixable' at the
> moment, or do I need to wait for some further sid updates?
> 
> PS. I know, I run sid, so I'm not winging, but would be nice if
> there was a solution :)
> 
> Kind regards,
> Michal

---end quoted text---

You probably were too hasty to do the upgrade. FWIU the transition to
Gnome 3.8 is ongoing and probably not finished. Wait a few days and try
again.

-- 
Cheers,
Stephen, Toronto
My Google+ Profile | http://goo.gl/JbQsq


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Graphic card advice

[aka]

Hi, 

I am a debian user and I am looking to buy a new computer (I will build it). 

I simply wonder if it is better to take a graphic card with an ATI or a 
NVIDIA chipset. 

Can someone please give me an advice ? 

Thanks, best regards, 


Amka


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Re: wacky question

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 24 June 2013 01:26:01 Joel Rees wrote:
> !984 and Animal Farm were allegories of the world the authors

author, singular.  There was only one George Orwell.

> lived in, not 
> predictions of some dystopian future.

He was not a scientist, and most of the "science" in 1984 did not exist in 
1948/9.  "1984" was an imaginative projection of what he saw as current 
trends into a resulting dystopian future.  

"Animal Farm" was indeed allegorical and referred to the past and present, not 
the future.  But it was also very much dystopian.

Lisi


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Re: wacky question

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 07:55:44 +0200, Slavko  wrote:

Dňa 24. 6. 2013 2:26 Joel Rees  wrote / napísal(a):
!984 and Animal Farm were allegories of the world the authors lived in,  
not predictions of some dystopian future.


These two things (author's world and prediction of the future) are not
mutual exclusive ;-)


And it's not true that we're living in Orwells 1984, we didn't in 1984 and  
we don't do it today, examples for steps in the other direction, e.g.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liechtenstein_women's_suffrage_referendum,_1984

1. Januar 2011 nobody in Germany is forced to join the armed forces  
anymore, I still got a criminal record a little bit after 1984 for not  
doing this.


Please don't claim that everything is that evil. I'm fighting for human  
rights etc. and I'm an anarchist, but western democracy, with all it's  
negative aspects isn't that totalitarian as many people claim.


People who are 30, 40 and more years old might remember that some years  
ago gays, women, people with a black skin etc. had a much harder life, see  
above, Liechtenstein women's suffrage referendum and than google for  
Sharia.


I agree that what the NSA and others do is wrong, bad, evil, but note,  
women get allowed to vote and the Islamic nations want to obtrude the  
Sharia.


If we criticize on side, we need to take a look at the whole situation. We  
don't live in Orwells 1984 and we have people who will force us to follow  
their religious crap, they terrorize us.


Don't get me wrong, we should fight for data protection, we should  
criticize our governments, they aren't our leaders, they are our  
employees. We have much mafis we shouldn't have, bankers, foot mafi etc.,  
but we are free to fight against this. Muck in, do social work etc. and  
don't claim we are living in dictatorships. We don't life in little  
ponyland, but that is something different to a dictatorships.


And if people won't muck in they simply could stop too use latest  
Zuckerberg crap etc..


Don't say "the politicians are evil" and then "I won't be  
self-responsible, I want politicians who do everything for me".



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Re: computer rendered un-usable

[Chris Bannister]

On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 07:46:11AM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Sat, 2013-06-22 at 22:56 -0400, Doug wrote:
> > /  and /home  and /swap.
> 
> It usually makes no sense to have it on separated partitions.

Not sure what you mean here, but having /home on a separate partition
makes a lot of sense. And of course, swap is usually on its own
partition.

-- 
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X


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