Re: Unable to Resize Playlist Window in Qmmp Player

[Patrick Wayodi]

>
> Two possible workarounds:
> 1. Give the window focus.
> Alt-space, M (move) or R (resize), and then use either your mouse or
> arrow keys to do the thing.  If R does nothing, the window might be
> maximized.  With the window menu open, U=unmaximize.
>

Thanks, this actually worked. I've now managed to resize it.

Unable to Resize Playlist Window in Qmmp Player

[Patrick Wayodi]

I'm not able to resize the playlist window in Qmmp Player. The playlist
window's height is longer than my screen and I'm not able to see its bottom
part.

$ qmmp -v
QMMP version: 1.6.2
Compiled with Qt version: 5.15.6
Using Qt version: 5.15.8

$ cat /etc/os-release
PRETTY_NAME="Debian GNU/Linux 12 (bookworm)"
NAME="Debian GNU/Linux"
...


Thank you.

Re: Program Not Showing Up in Menu

[Patrick Wayodi]

Thanks. You're right, I should've read the full description of the program.

On Thu, Jul 11, 2024 at 3:29 AM Dan Ritter  wrote:

> Patrick Wayodi wrote:
> > I have installed a program but it's not showing up in the Applications
> > menu. The program is called Monero. I installed it using these commands:
> > sudo apt-get update
> > sudo apt-get install monero
>
> That's because it has no graphical interface. It's a daemon plus
> command line tools.
>
> -dsr-
>

Program Not Showing Up in Menu

[Patrick Wayodi]

I have installed a program but it's not showing up in the Applications
menu. The program is called Monero. I installed it using these commands:
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install monero

Debian Mobile cont'd from about 10 yeaes ago furey2310....

[Patrick Furey]

Can it be downloaded to usb, SD  and installed  at boot options via ADB?
I did successfully install the code via termux on 2 phones but that termux 
wasnt rooted i believe and my charging was subsequently ruined on my android 
o/s
The code is there on termux (terminal)
Regards
Patrick Shaun Furey.

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

Re: can you parse and "tail" at once? (and if you can't why not?)

[Patrick Wiseman]

On Sun, Oct 22, 2023, 10:39 PM Albretch Mueller  wrote:

>  OK, Greg's suggestion once again "made my day".
>  I know at some point I will have to code everything in some
> programming language, but for now I will just get things done as
> quickly as possible.
>  Also, Greg, please, I would like for you to understand that it is not
> my intention to upset you about what you find visually upsetting. We
> have talked about that before.
>  I am sure you could certainly understand that there are reasons why
> some people build certain habits and that not everyone gets upset
> about the same kinds of "secondary accidents" (as Aristotle would put
> it). Some people may have a hard time even noticing what upsets you.
>  lbrtchx
>
> Context? Totally lost. No need to reply, I haven't been following anyway.

Re: Qt6 Location for Debian 12

[Patrick Franz]

Hej,

Am Donnerstag, 12. Oktober 2023, 01:17:44 CEST schrieb Petric Frank:
[...]
> I got a hint on a git project where Qt6Location was compiled for older
> Qt Versions (< 6.5):
>   https://github.com/ntadej/qtlocation
> 
> Maybe the 6.4.2 release of it could be a candidate for being
> repackaged as *.deb ?

We cannot add packages to Debian 12 anymore. I'd also like to stick to 
the official Qt releases and avoid 3rd-party releases.


-- 
Med vänliga hälsningar

Patrick Franz

Re: Qt6 Location for Debian 12

[Patrick Franz]

Hej,

Am Mittwoch, 11. Oktober 2023, 16:52:24 CEST schrieb Petric Frank:
> Hello,
> 
> is there a *.deb for Qt6 Location (-dev) module ?
> 
> I have seen there is one for Qt6 Positioning in the stable repository
> but i miss the above one.
> 
> Or do i have to compile the Qt6 system myself ?

There is no Location module for Qt 6.4. It never existed. However, it 
got reintroduced as a tech preview for 6.5.


-- 
Med vänliga hälsningar

Patrick Franz

Re: Creality don't sound great (Was: Re: Is it possible to downgrade openssl?)

[Patrick Wiseman]

On Sun, Jul 30, 2023 at 11:33 AM Dan Ritter  wrote:

> Andy Smith wrote:
> >
> > Sounds like an absolutely shit-tier company. I hope there are
> > alternatives in the 3d-printing world, a world that I know almost
> > nothing about.
>
> Many, but Creality makes really cheap 3D printers, so
> lots of people buy them.
>

I think it would be fairer to say that they make inexpensive 3D printers.
The hardware is generally of good quality. And they just sent me a working
version of the AppImage which had been segfaulting, so not entirely
unresponsive (if a bit slow to respond).

Patrick

Re: Is it possible to downgrade openssl?

[Patrick Wiseman]

On Sat, Jul 29, 2023 at 10:42 PM Max Nikulin  wrote:

>
> On 30/07/2023 05:16, Patrick Wiseman wrote:
> > I'd already reached the conclusion that messing with openssl was a bad
> > idea. Unfortunately, Creality is unresponsive to pleas to fix their
> > software.
>
> I have no experience with 3d printers at all, but I am curious
> concerning any progress with a suggestion from another thread:
>
> Patrick Wiseman. Re: qt.network.ssl problems (OT?) Wed, 21 Jun 2023
> 10:35:57 -0400.
>
> https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/CAJVvKsO_MubTQidcQZ+vSNkYmO=sqghvvno0nlzu8ohxch7...@mail.gmail.com
>
> > Turns out that the K1 printer is Klipper under the hood and there's a
> > way to hack it to gain full access (so I don't need the broken app).
>

This is veering way off topic ... but, since you ask :)

It's true that the K1 is Klipper (one of several flavors of 3D printer
software) under the hood, and I have used the hack to get to it. But
Creality apparently disapproves of the hack and so has disabled it in the
latest firmware. For now, I'm living with the older firmware and the very
useful hack, but I might not need to do that if their software worked on my
laptop. Hence my attempts to get it working. (Creality has historically
been good about open source hardware and software, so I'm not sure what
they're up to with this particular printer.)

Cheers
Patrick

Re: Is it possible to downgrade openssl?

[Patrick Wiseman]

On Sat, Jul 29, 2023, 6:03 PM Andy Smith  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 04:14:30PM -0400, Patrick Wiseman wrote:
> > On Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 4:10 PM Brian  wrote:
> > > On Fri 28 Jul 2023 at 16:04:10 -0400, Patrick Wiseman wrote:
> > > > any way to revert to an earlier version of OpenSSL? I'm on an
> up-to-date
> > > > bookworm system.
> > >
> > > Install from https://snapshot.debian.org/.
> >
> > Thanks for the quick reply. I'll try that as soon as I get back to the
> box.
>
> You've been handed a very effective footgun with no further
> instructions. Please do not replace your system's openssl package
> with an older one unless you know exactly what you are doing. In all
> likelihood you will completely break your whole system. Tons of
> things link to openssl.
>
> AppImages are supposed to include the libraries they depend upon,
> though I don't use them so am not sure about this, but if that is
> true then I think it's unlikely that your AppImage is using the
> system openssl anyway.
>
> You really need to get support from the supplier of the package.
>

I'd already reached the conclusion that messing with openssl was a bad
idea. Unfortunately, Creality is unresponsive to pleas to fix their
software. A Googled source claimed the problem was fixed by installation of
an earlier version of openssl, but I'm glad I asked here before trying that!

I'm mostly a lurker here but always impressed with how patiently helpful
y'all are.

Thanks for being here!

Cheers
Patrick

Re: Is it possible to downgrade openssl?

[Patrick Wiseman]

On Sat, Jul 29, 2023 at 10:42 AM  wrote:

> Eduardo M KALINOWSKI  wrote:
> > On 28/07/2023 17:04, Patrick Wiseman wrote:
> > > I have an AppImage from Creality which segfaults with a QT ssl
> > > error. Googling tells me that the latest version of OpenSSL (3.x)
> > > omits some X509 functionality, which can be found in OpenSSL-1.1.
> > > (And someone reports that installing it solves the problem.) But I
> > > can't find that package. Is there any way to revert to an earlier
> > > version of OpenSSL? I'm on an up-to-date bookworm system.
> >
> > AppImages bundle all the libraries used by the application, so
> > changing the "system" version of openssl probably won't work.
>
> It sounds like you need to contact Creality to update the AppImage.
> Although
>
> https://forum.manjaro.org/t/creality-slicer-appimage-not-loading-qt-network-ssl-errors/143726
> suggests that the AppImage does not contain the OpenSSL library.
>
> But the only 'omission' of X.509 functionality that I can see on
> https://www.openssl.org/news/openssl-3.0-notes.html is
> "X509 certificates signed using SHA1 are no longer allowed at security
> level 1 or higher. The default security level for TLS is 1, so
> certificates signed using SHA1 are by default no longer trusted to
> authenticate servers or clients."
>
> I'm not sure I'd want to be deliberately trying to undo a security
> upgrade.
>
> I'm sure you're right. Contacting Creality is a fool's game; they've been
alerted to the problem since they released the software, so I'll just have
to be patient.

Thanks to all for your suggestions.

Patrick

Re: Is it possible to downgrade openssl?

[Patrick Wiseman]

On Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 4:10 PM Brian  wrote:

> On Fri 28 Jul 2023 at 16:04:10 -0400, Patrick Wiseman wrote:
>
> > I have an AppImage from Creality which segfaults with a QT ssl error.
> > Googling tells me that the latest version of OpenSSL (3.x) omits some
> X509
> > functionality, which can be found in OpenSSL-1.1. (And someone reports
> that
> > installing it solves the problem.) But I can't find that package. Is
> there
> > any way to revert to an earlier version of OpenSSL? I'm on an up-to-date
> > bookworm system.
>
> Install from https://snapshot.debian.org/.
>

Thanks for the quick reply. I'll try that as soon as I get back to the box.

Patrick

>

Is it possible to downgrade openssl?

[Patrick Wiseman]

I have an AppImage from Creality which segfaults with a QT ssl error.
Googling tells me that the latest version of OpenSSL (3.x) omits some X509
functionality, which can be found in OpenSSL-1.1. (And someone reports that
installing it solves the problem.) But I can't find that package. Is there
any way to revert to an earlier version of OpenSSL? I'm on an up-to-date
bookworm system.

Thanks
Patrick

Re: RFP: deadEarth RPG documentation - free and open RPG game

[Patrick Wiseman]

Not the list to make such requests

On Wed, Jun 28, 2023, 11:30 AM Joshua Allen  wrote:

> Package: wnpp
> Severity: wishlist
>
> * Package name: deadearth
>   Version : second edition
>   Upstream Contact: i...@thegamecrafter.com
> * URL : 
> https://web.archive.org/web/20021211104811/http://www.deadearth.com/index.pl/legal
> * License : License GNU Free Documentation License v1.1 or any later 
> version, no invariant sections or front and back text
>   Programming Lang: unknown
>   Description : tabletop rpg game
>
>
>  - deadEarth is a free and open TTRPG game for use in real life or online
>
> - I am aware of other TTRPGs but this looks to be the oldest one I could find 
> and it was released in 2002, since the developer no longer maintains the 
> site, I looked it up on the internet archive.
>
> - Debian doesnt have to be used but, it does qualify for inclusion in the 
> free documentation repositories.
>
>  - how do you plan to maintain it?
> I am just an end user and I am not able to maintain it per say, maybe clean 
> it up since the wording is difficult to see on the url listed above
>
> You would have to probably contact TGC LLC for official clarification, I did 
> months ago but Wikimedia commons needs confirmation from the source.
>
> Still it looks interesting, it probably already is in the repository.
>
>

Re: qt.network.ssl problems (OT?)

[Patrick Wiseman]

On Tue, Jun 20, 2023 at 5:30 PM gene heskett  wrote:

>
> I have no idea about the creality clone, but klipper runs perfectly fine
> on a bananapi-m5 w/4gigs of dram in front of the printer.  klipper
> itself is a 2 part thing, one part replacing the usually crippled marlin
> in the printers controller, by reflashing the controller card, the other
> part massages the gcode on the way to the printer enhancing the printers
> speed among other advantages.
>
> Turns out that the K1 printer is Klipper under the hood and there's a way
to hack it to gain full access (so I don't need the broken app).

Cheers
Patrick

Re: qt.network.ssl problems (OT?)

[Patrick Wiseman]

On Tue, Jun 20, 2023 at 2:18 PM Patrick Wiseman  wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 20, 2023, 2:02 PM gene heskett  wrote:
>
>> On 6/20/23 13:33, Patrick Wiseman wrote:
>> > Hello, all:
>> >
>> > This may be a little off-topic, in which case, apologies, but there's so
>> > much knowledge here, maybe someone can help.
>> >
>> > I recently acquired a Creality 3D printer, and Creality has supplied an
>> > AppImage to operate it. When I execute it, I get these errors and a
>> > segmentation fault:
>> >
>> > qt.network.ssl: QSslSocket: cannot resolve EVP_PKEY_base_id
>> > qt.network.ssl: QSslSocket: cannot resolve SSL_get_peer_certificate
>> > Segmentation fault
>> >
>> > Googling suggests this is a common problem for developers using Qt, but
>> I
>> > didn't find any obvious solution. Help would be much appreciated.
>> >
>> > Patrick
>>
>> That AppImage is probably a copyright violation copy of an old and
>> outdated klipper, Please install and use the real thing, many bugs have
>> been treated since it was forked and put under their proprietary
>> umbrella. I have an S1 coming tomorrow, but it will get run by the real
>> thing.
>>
>
> Thanks , but the AppImage is what it is and the firmware on the K1 printer
> is also what it is. Anything else I can do?
>
>>
>>
An acquaintance tells me it runs fine on Linux Mint 21.1 so what's
different about Debian 12 (bookworm)? And isn't an AppImage supposed to run
anywhere?

Patrick

Re: qt.network.ssl problems (OT?)

[Patrick Wiseman]

On Tue, Jun 20, 2023, 2:02 PM gene heskett  wrote:

> On 6/20/23 13:33, Patrick Wiseman wrote:
> > Hello, all:
> >
> > This may be a little off-topic, in which case, apologies, but there's so
> > much knowledge here, maybe someone can help.
> >
> > I recently acquired a Creality 3D printer, and Creality has supplied an
> > AppImage to operate it. When I execute it, I get these errors and a
> > segmentation fault:
> >
> > qt.network.ssl: QSslSocket: cannot resolve EVP_PKEY_base_id
> > qt.network.ssl: QSslSocket: cannot resolve SSL_get_peer_certificate
> > Segmentation fault
> >
> > Googling suggests this is a common problem for developers using Qt, but I
> > didn't find any obvious solution. Help would be much appreciated.
> >
> > Patrick
>
> That AppImage is probably a copyright violation copy of an old and
> outdated klipper, Please install and use the real thing, many bugs have
> been treated since it was forked and put under their proprietary
> umbrella. I have an S1 coming tomorrow, but it will get run by the real
> thing.
>

Thanks , but the AppImage is what it is and the firmware on the K1 printer
is also what it is. Anything else I can do?

Patrick


>

qt.network.ssl problems (OT?)

[Patrick Wiseman]

Hello, all:

This may be a little off-topic, in which case, apologies, but there's so
much knowledge here, maybe someone can help.

I recently acquired a Creality 3D printer, and Creality has supplied an
AppImage to operate it. When I execute it, I get these errors and a
segmentation fault:

qt.network.ssl: QSslSocket: cannot resolve EVP_PKEY_base_id
qt.network.ssl: QSslSocket: cannot resolve SSL_get_peer_certificate
Segmentation fault

Googling suggests this is a common problem for developers using Qt, but I
didn't find any obvious solution. Help would be much appreciated.

Patrick

Re: Evolution email (problem?)

[Patrick Wiseman]

Can't explain it, but it strikes me it's almost certainly a permissions
problem.

Patrick




On Wed, Apr 26, 2023 at 11:06 AM Default User 
wrote:

> Strange . . .
>
> I run Debian 11 (Bullseye) Stable, up to date, Gnome 3 desktop
> environment.
>
> I recently set up Evolution email.  Works okay.
>
> Two days ago, I realized that it absolutely refuses to delete email
> messages directly from the [Gmail]/All Mail folder of any email
> account.  To delete a message in the All Mail folder, that is not also
> in another folder, the message must be moved into another folder and
> then deleted from there.
>
> I sure think I remember being able to delete directly from the All Mail
> folder when I first set up Evolution.
>
> I re-started Evolution.  No change.
> I re-booted. No change.
> I did sudo aptitude reinstall evolution.  No Change.
> I moved ~/.local/share/evolution/mail/local/folders.db to Trash, then
> re-started Evolution to construct a new folders.db file. No change.
> I did sudo aptitude purge evolution, then sudo aptitude install
> Evolution.  No change.
> I moved ~/.local/share/evolution, ~/.cache/evolution, and
> ~/.config/evolution to Trash, then did sudo aptitude purge evolution,
> then sudo aptitude install Evolution.  No change.
> I did some research online, seeking a solution, or at least a "good"
> explanation.  No solution or "good" answer was found.
>
> But . . .   then I booted into a Debian 11.6 Live/Install usb thumb
> drive, and then installed Evolution into the Live session, upon which
> Evolution DID allow message deletion directly from the [Gmail]/All Mail
> folder!
>
> Back to my regular Debian 11 Stable install.  No change.
>
> It makes no sense to me that it would work from a Debian 11
> Live/Install session, but not (currently) from a regular Debian
> session.
>
> Even if it did not work from a Live Debian session, it makes no sense
> to me that Evolution could be designed this way.  I see no good reason
> that messages can be directly deleted from any other folder, but not
> [Gmail]/All Mail.
>
> Does anyone have a solution, so that messages must be moved to another
> folder (if they are not also there already), just to be deleted?  Or at
> least a "good" explanation as to why Evolution appears to be designed
> this way?
>
>
>
>

Re: Getting PC with Ubuntu; change to Debian?

[Patrick Wiseman]

Hello again:

I'm just getting around to firing up my new laptop (Lenovo X1 Carbon Gen
10), which came with Ubuntu installed. (By the way, I appreciate all of the
feedback I got.) Although Ubuntu is a Debian-derivative, I didn't much care
for the feel of it. This is entirely subjective, I realize, but it felt as
if it wanted to get in the way of my going "under the hood", something
which I've been doing with my computers for decades! So I resolved to
return to Debian.

After making a recovery USB stick (which I confirmed worked before doing
anything else), I tried to boot from a Debian 11 live USB. It dropped me
immediately to a grub prompt! As comfortable as I am with Debian, that
caused me some discomfort!

So I decided to try a Debian 12 net install, which worked flawlessly and
has given me a nice clean Xfce desktop. I haven't put it through any
serious paces yet, but I'm back on familiar territory.

Cheers
Patrick


On Sun, Dec 4, 2022, 9:51 PM Patrick Wiseman  wrote:

> Hello, fellow Debian users:
>
> I've had Debian on my computers for a very long time (can't remember
> exactly when but early 2000's for sure); and I've had Lenovo laptops for
> ages too. I finally need to replace my main laptop (an at least 10-year old
> ThinkPad), so I've bought an X1 from Lenovo, with Ubuntu pre-installed (to
> be delivered in January).
>
> So, a question. Should I side-grade to Debian (and, if so, how easy would
> it be to do that?)? Or will I be happy with Ubuntu (which is, after all, a
> Debian derivative)?
>
> I'm very familiar and comfortable with Debian (was happy with 'testing'
> for a long time, but have lately reverted to 'stable'). And, although I'm a
> rare participant on this list, I enjoy the lurk and would presumably need
> to go elsewhere if I had questions about my Ubuntu experience.
>
> Thoughts will be welcome.
>
> Patrick
>
>

Re: KDE Frameworks 5.103.0 and KDE Plasma 5.27

[Patrick Franz]

Hej,

Am Dienstag, 21. Februar 2023, 20:09:13 CET schrieb Timothy M 
Butterworth:
> Is Bookworm going to get Frameworks 5.103.0 and is there any estimated
> time when Bookworm will get Plasma 5.27?

Bookworm already has Plasma 5.27 beta (it's officially called 5.26.90), 
but both the Frameworks 5.103 and Plasma 5.27.0 have been uploaded to 
unstable and will be available in bookworm unless something weird 
happens.

The Frameworks 5.103 will migrate to bookworm towards the end of the 
week, while Plasma 5.27.0 will migrate in the middle of next week.

We hope we can get Plasma 5.27.2 in before the next freeze.


-- 
Med vänliga hälsningar

Patrick Franz

Getting PC with Ubuntu; change to Debian?

[Patrick Wiseman]

Hello, fellow Debian users:

I've had Debian on my computers for a very long time (can't remember
exactly when but early 2000's for sure); and I've had Lenovo laptops for
ages too. I finally need to replace my main laptop (an at least 10-year old
ThinkPad), so I've bought an X1 from Lenovo, with Ubuntu pre-installed (to
be delivered in January).

So, a question. Should I side-grade to Debian (and, if so, how easy would
it be to do that?)? Or will I be happy with Ubuntu (which is, after all, a
Debian derivative)?

I'm very familiar and comfortable with Debian (was happy with 'testing' for
a long time, but have lately reverted to 'stable'). And, although I'm a
rare participant on this list, I enjoy the lurk and would presumably need
to go elsewhere if I had questions about my Ubuntu experience.

Thoughts will be welcome.

Patrick

Re: nginx.conf woes

[Patrick Kirk]

On 02/10/2022 16:12, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Sun, Oct 02, 2022 at 04:07:05PM +0300, Patrick Kirk wrote:

If I
try lynx http://cleardragon.com a similar redirect takes place and I get a
"Alert!: Unable to connect to remote host" error and lynx closes down.

I'm not an expert on nginx configuration, but I did notice one thing:


         server {
         listen                    443 ssl http2;
         listen                    [::]:443 ssl http2;
         server_name               server_name  cleardragon.com
*.cleardragon.com;

You've repeated "server_name" twice here.

Thanks.  Good spot but sadly that doesn't fix it.

nginx.conf woes

[Patrick Kirk]

Hi all,

I have 2 sites to run from one server.  Both are based on ASP.Net Core.  
Both have SSL certs from letsencrypt.  One works perfectly.  The other 
sort of works. If I go to http://localhost:5100 by redirecting to 
https://localhost:5101 and then it warns of an invalid certificate.  If 
I try lynx http://cleardragon.com a similar redirect takes place and I 
get a "Alert!: Unable to connect to remote host" error and lynx closes down.


When I do sudo tail -f /var/log/nginx/error.log I see: 2022/10/02 
12:44:22 [notice] 1624399#1624399: signal process started


I'm baffled as to how I can diagnose the problem.

Here's my nginx.conf just in case there is some error in it.

Thanks in advance,

Patrick

user www-data;
worker_processes auto;
pid /run/nginx.pid;
include /etc/nginx/modules-enabled/*.conf;
events {
        worker_connections 768;
# multi_accept on;
}
http {
    include        /etc/nginx/conf.d/proxy.conf;
    limit_req_zone $binary_remote_addr zone=one:10m rate=5r/s;
    server_tokens  off;
    charset utf-8;
    charset_types text/css text/xml text/plain text/vnd.wap.wml 
application/javascript application/rss+xml;

    sendfile on;
    keepalive_timeout   29;
    client_body_timeout 10; client_header_timeout 10; send_timeout 10;
    server {
    listen 80 default_server;
    listen [::]:80 default_server;
    server_name _;
    return 301 https://$host$request_uri;
    }
    upstream kirksnet{
        server localhost:5000;
    }
    server {
        listen                    443 ssl http2;
        listen                    [::]:443 ssl http2;
        server_name               kirks.net *.kirks.net;
        ssl_certificate           
/etc/letsencrypt/live/kirks.net/fullchain.pem;
        ssl_certificate_key       
/etc/letsencrypt/live/kirks.net/privkey.pem;

        add_header X-Frame-Options DENY;
        add_header X-Content-Type-Options nosniff;
        location / {
            proxy_pass http://kirksnet;
            limit_req zone=one burst=10 nodelay;
        }
    }
        upstream RazorHill{
        server localhost:5100;
    }
        server {
        listen                    443 ssl http2;
        listen                    [::]:443 ssl http2;
        server_name               server_name  cleardragon.com 
*.cleardragon.com;
        ssl_certificate           
/etc/letsencrypt/live/cleardragon.com/fullchain.pem;
        ssl_certificate_key       
/etc/letsencrypt/live/cleardragon.com/privkey.pem;

        add_header X-Frame-Options DENY;
        add_header X-Content-Type-Options nosniff;
        location / {
            proxy_pass http://RazorHill;
            limit_req zone=one burst=10 nodelay;
        }
    }
}

Re: .Net Core program crashes on Linux and not on Windows

[Patrick Kirk]

 Log
2:14:55 PM:- Starting process.
2:14:56 PM:- Auction run for Kazzak EU.
2:14:58 PM:- Connected realm id for Kazzak EU is 1305.
2:15:01 PM:- The realm data for Kazzak EU namespace is downloaded.
2:15:42 PM:- We have 0 to add and 95789 auctions to update and 1883 expired
or sold auctions in the database for Kazzak EU.
2:15:42 PM:- Saving changes for Kazzak EU.
2:16:13 PM:- Updated 95789 auction listings for Kazzak EU in 10 batches.
2:16:13 PM:- Marking expired auctions for Kazzak EU.
2:16:14 PM:- Getting Kazzak EU done took 1minutes 17 seconds.
2:16:14 PM:- Auction run for Illidan US.
2:16:14 PM:- Connected realm id for Illidan US is 57.
...snip...
2:18:18 PM:- Auctions scan 1 complete.

I took your advice and doubled it.  A program that had me baffled this
morning is now running perfectly.  Many thanks guys!

On Thu, 1 Sept 2022 at 16:34, Greg Wooledge  wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 01, 2022 at 03:47:52PM +0300, Patrick Kirk wrote:
> > /var/log/messages:Sep  1 12:41:34 debian-s-websites kernel:
> > [31104249.962672] .NET ThreadPool invoked oom-killer:
> > gfp_mask=0x6280ca(GFP_HIGHUSER_MOVABLE|__GFP_ZERO), nodemask=(null),
> > order=0, oom_score_adj=0
> > /var/log/messages:Sep  1 12:41:34 debian-s-websites kernel:
> > [31104249.973435]  oom_kill_process.cold.30+0xb/0x1cf
> >
> > Dan - you found my problem.  Thanks!
> >
> > When the program is running I have this:
> > Mem:  989Mi   579Mi64Mi   149Mi   346Mi
> > 120Mi
> >
> > It clearly thinks 64M is not enough.  I know my program can require up
> to a
> > Gig of memory for the bigger datasets.  What is the minimum GNU/Linux
> will
> > tolerate so I don't end up throwing money away on unused RAM?
>
> You said this is a VPS, so it's going to depend on which *type* of VPS,
> but mostly it's a matter of how much memory the VPS is allowed to use,
> by the host system.
>
> It looks like your VPS is limited to 1 GB (989 Mi, it says) of total
> memory.  If your program is coming close to that, then you may need to
> talk to your VPS provider and get more memory allocated to you (which
> may cost more money).
>
> Try doubling it.
>
>

Re: .Net Core program crashes on Linux and not on Windows

[Patrick Kirk]

Hi Dan,

Yes I've been coding for a living for 15 years in C#.


/var/log/messages:Sep  1 12:41:34 debian-s-websites kernel:
[31104249.962672] .NET ThreadPool invoked oom-killer:
gfp_mask=0x6280ca(GFP_HIGHUSER_MOVABLE|__GFP_ZERO), nodemask=(null),
order=0, oom_score_adj=0
/var/log/messages:Sep  1 12:41:34 debian-s-websites kernel:
[31104249.973435]  oom_kill_process.cold.30+0xb/0x1cf

Dan - you found my problem.  Thanks!

When the program is running I have this:
Mem:  989Mi   579Mi64Mi   149Mi   346Mi
120Mi

It clearly thinks 64M is not enough.  I know my program can require up to a
Gig of memory for the bigger datasets.  What is the minimum GNU/Linux will
tolerate so I don't end up throwing money away on unused RAM?

Patrick

On Thu, 1 Sept 2022 at 15:21, Dan Ritter  wrote:

> Patrick Kirk wrote:
> > I have a program that is meant to run on my Debian VPS which is hosted by
> > Digital Ocean.  My access to the server is via Putty. Unfortunately the
> > program simply stops, silently, after a few minutes.
> >
> > My code is littered with try catch statements. The console window shows
> no
> > errors. It just silently fails.
> >
> > One issue may be that the program is a resource hog working with datasets
> > of a million or so records at a time. Perhaps the system kills processes
> > that threaten to take over all resources?
>
> There is a kernel feature called the Out Of Memory Killer, which
> kills processes that try to use all the memory of the system.
>
> > Anyway, I would be grateful for any suggestion on how to track down this
> > problem. I'm happy to read the documentation but as you can probably
> tell I
> > don't know how to start framing the question.
>
> Did you write this program?
>
> Are you a fluent .Net Core programmer?
>
> Has it ever run on some other system?
>
> What happens if you try with a dataset of ten records?
>
> -dsr-
>

.Net Core program crashes on Linux and not on Windows

[Patrick Kirk]

Hi all,

I have a program that is meant to run on my Debian VPS which is hosted by
Digital Ocean.  My access to the server is via Putty. Unfortunately the
program simply stops, silently, after a few minutes.

My code is littered with try catch statements. The console window shows no
errors. It just silently fails.

One issue may be that the program is a resource hog working with datasets
of a million or so records at a time. Perhaps the system kills processes
that threaten to take over all resources?

Anyway, I would be grateful for any suggestion on how to track down this
problem. I'm happy to read the documentation but as you can probably tell I
don't know how to start framing the question.

Patrick

Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email

[Patrick Bartek]

On Wed, 1 Jun 2022 18:04:02 +0100
Brian  wrote:

> On Thu 12 May 2022 at 10:08:01 -, Virgo Pärna wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 11 May 2022 20:09:14 +0200, Fero Dali 
> > wrote:  
> > > Sorry for misunderstanding: it seems that my account will
> > > continue to work but ability to download mail with POP3 without
> > > OAUTH2 will be unavailable. 
> > 
> > Actually, even without OAUTH2 it should be still possible.
> > With two factor authentication enabled it is possible to generate
> > app password for use with standard authentication.  
> 
> It's June 1st and my ability to collect mail via POP3 from gmail is
> unimpaired. No  OAUTH2 or 2FA at this site. Whatever Google intended
> the situation to be after May 30th, it appears the interpretation by
> some users of their mail was off the mark.
> 

Still works here, too. Claws-mail 3.17.3 IMAP.  No OAuth2 or 2FA.
Neither of which this version of Claws supports, IIRC. Of course,
notification email did say "may not" not won't.

FWIW: Yahoo mail ceased working with Claws several years ago due to
security changes.  Though still accessible via web browser with only a
password.

B

Re: Debian desktop environment

[Patrick Bartek]

On Tue, 24 May 2022 13:27:29 +0200
Antonino Saetta  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> After my surrender to Jessie I've thought of moving on with Stretch.
> 
> Currently I've installed it through the net, no problems at all.
> 
> So I was wondering, why am I asked to choose (or not) a GNOME desktop
> environment, other than *Debian desktop environment*?

To give you a choice of which desktop or desktops to install, or no GUI
at all. With Linux you can install and run multiple desktops, if you
want to.

> I thought that Debian is GNOME by default...

It is, but you don't have to use/install it if you don't want to.

> Also, what's the lightest desktop? Default, XFCE or LXDE...?

XFCE, LXDE, LXQt are all considered "light" desktops. Running only a
window manager (I use Openbox. There are many others.) is even lighter.

B

Re: Issues running TigerVNC on Debian WSL-2

[Mark Wood-Patrick]

I need to run on Debian under WSL-2 and want to be able to use Microsoft
Wayland as display 0 and want to have VNC access to the system.

Can you elaborate on exactly what your concerns are and how you would
resolve them and on your comment about the sticky bit, any links on these
issues would be appreciated

Regards

Mark

On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 11:07 AM Greg Wooledge  wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 10:59:44AM -0700, mwoodpatr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Many thanks for the response. Much appreciated
> >
> > Permissions look ok
> >
> > ls -ld /tmp /tmp/.X11-unix
> >  drwxrwxrwt 2 root root 4096 Apr 17 09:31 /tmp
> >  lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   19 Apr 17 09:31 /tmp/.X11-unix ->
> > /mnt/wslg/.X11-unix
> >
> > ls -ld /mnt/wslg/.X11-unix
> > drwxrwxrwx 2 root root 60 Apr 17 09:31 /mnt/wslg/.X11-unix
> >
> > I have write access to both locations
>
> That looks incredibly not OK.  You're doing something unusual, and
> you are going to have to deal with the consequences of that.  This
> may include running afoul of various things like AppArmor that are
> restricting access to specific directory trees, which you are no longer
> in.
>
> I can't imagine what benefit you think you're deriving from this
> convoluted setup, but whatever it is, I hope it's worth the pain you're
> going to experience, trying to track down all of the things you've
> broken.
>
> (You've also forgotten the sticky bit on your mounted directory.)
>
>

-- 
Mark Wood-Patrick

Re: No dbg packages for Plasma?

[Patrick Franz]

Hi,

Am Mittwoch, 6. April 2022, 15:20:49 CEST schrieb Luiz Romário Santana 
Rios:
> I just noticed that there seem to be absolutely no debug packages for
> plasma-desktop or for plasma frameworks. The only thing I can find
> online is this plasma-desktop-dbgsym package[1], which is only
> available for Sid.
> 
> Why? Is this a bug?

The debug packages for Plasma are available where all other dbg packages 
for Debian are. Here you can find the ones for e.g. plasma-desktop:

http://deb.debian.org/debian-debug/pool/main/p/plasma-desktop/


-- 
Med vänliga hälsningar

Patrick Franz

Re: Can't create a password successfully.

[Patrick Wiseman]

Chrome does that.


On Mon, Apr 4, 2022 at 10:04 AM Curt  wrote:

> On 2022-04-03, Brian  wrote:
> >
> >> One of the bits of advice is to use long passwords made up of three
> >> random words and to use a different password per website / to use
> >> your web browser to generate an appropriate random password.
> >> Forcing passwords to change regularly may not be a good way to
> >> maintain security - it can mean that people use password01, password02
> >> and things like that.
> >
> > Changing passwords at frequent intervals? Total nonsensense as far as
> > advice goes.
> >
>
> What web browser generates 'random' passwords? Am I missing something?
>
>
>
>
>

Re: Installing minimal command line system with netinst.iso

[Patrick Bartek]

On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 14:24:29 -0600
Richard Owlett  wrote:

> I have limited internet connectivity.
> I have read over the years that installing a *MINIMAL* command line 
> system from netinst.iso [without internet is possible].
> The intent to add pieces later assumed.
> Is this process described somewhere?
> 
> I've got a system that appears to have a very minimal shell running.
> My potential internet connection is a USB connected hotspot from 
> T-Mobile. On a typical GUI installed Debian it runs fine.
> 
> My minimal system doesn't recognize it.
> What might be the missing software?
> 
> Any suggestions?
> My effective data cap at the moment is ~1 GB/month.
> Among my goals is installer for those with _*minimal*_ resources.

I'm assuming you're connecting your phone directly via its USB port to a
USB port on your computer.  You probably need to make an entry
in /etc/network/interfaces. Plus, enable "USB tethering" (not wifi) in
Settings/Network on your phone.  Here's my interfaces entry:

allow-hotplug usb0
iface usb0 inet dhcp

My phone gets recognized as usb0, your's my differ.  Make the
correction, if needed.

B



iface usb0 inet dhcp

Re: Query

[Patrick Bartek]

On Mon, 7 Feb 2022 08:50:36 -0700
William Lee Valentine  wrote:

> I am wondering whether a current Debian distribution can be installed
> and run on an older Pentium III computer. (I have Debian 11.2 on a
> DVD.)

And have something usable? With the default GNOME desktop? Probably
not. With a lightweight desktop like XFCE? Maybe.  With a window
manager only? Better chance, but still iffy.  Main problem is lack of
RAM and slow CPU. You'll need the 32-bit version of Debian.

Here's a real example with equivalent hardware from around 2004 or 5:
1GHz Duron (PIII equivalent), 1 GB or so RAM, Fedora Core 6, GNOME
desktop.  My system at the time. After numerous upgrades from FC2,
system had become sluggish, particularly with menus -- a second or so
pause before appearing. I was able to get a usable system for another
year or so by a very custom install of Debian Wheezy. Started with a
terminal-only install, then added a minimal X with a window manager
(Openbox), a few utilities and lastly apps. However, I doubt if
Debian 11 would run well on it, even if you abandoned a desktop and
went with a window manager.

All you can do is try and see what happens. Good luck.

> The computer is
> 
>     Dell Dimension XPS T500: Intel Pentium III processor (Katnai)
>     memory: 756 megabytes, running at 500 megahertz
>     IDE disc drive: 60 gigabytes
>     Debian partition: currently 42 gigabytes
>     Debian 6.0: Squeeze
> 
> If I install Debian 11.2, will it run on this machine? Will it
> preserve the files and directories that I have on Squeeze?

Re: Package name to report bug with KDE file open dialog

[Patrick Dunford]

Ok

I will take this matter up with the application developers

thanks for your assistance to date.


On 29/01/22 06:10, Bijan Soleymani wrote:

On 2022-01-28 11:36, Patrick Dunford wrote:
It is not relevant whether the issue occurs in other applications 
because they all use the file open dialogs in ways that are specific 
to their application which the end user has no control over and 
therefore it cannot be tested for


If it doesn't occur in other applications we don't know if it is an 
app issue or a file chooser issue.


The application has been tested on various operating systems and this 
problem only occurs on the version of kde which is installed by the 
debian bookworm package manager.


Still could be an app issue.

Therefore just give me the name of the specific kde package that 
relates to that dialog, as I previously requested.


I believe a KDE app would use dolphin or possibly qt file chooser.

Bijan

Re: Package name to report bug with KDE file open dialog

[Patrick Dunford]

Hi

It is not relevant whether the issue occurs in other applications 
because they all use the file open dialogs in ways that are specific to 
their application which the end user has no control over and therefore 
it cannot be tested for


The application has been tested on various operating systems and this 
problem only occurs on the version of kde which is installed by the 
debian bookworm package manager.


Therefore just give me the name of the specific kde package that relates 
to that dialog, as I previously requested.


On 29/01/22 05:16, Bijan Soleymani wrote:

On 2022-01-28 11:10, Patrick Dunford wrote:
Which is the name of the package relating to the file open dialog to 
use in a bug report?


I think it depends on the application :)

Do you see it in other applications?

If so, you can figure out what GUI toolkit/environment it is gtk, qt, 
gnome, kde.


Otherwise probably file a bug on the app.

Bijan

Package name to report bug with KDE file open dialog

[Patrick Dunford]

Hello

I am using debian bookworm with kde and have noticed a bug in an 
application which is using a file open dialog. The problem only occurs 
in bookworm and is not present when using the same combination of kde 
and software on a system running bullseye.


Which is the name of the package relating to the file open dialog to use 
in a bug report?

Re: TDE File Manager options

[Patrick Bartek]

On Thu, 20 Jan 2022 10:35:50 -0600
"c. marlow"  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Yes, I know that in previous emails I was using LXDE, but I thought
> that I would nuke and pave give TDE a try since I had never tried
> TDE  before.
> 
> And I am wondering what other file managers work with TDE 14 besides 
> Konqueror,  which ain't worth a dang! 

Take a look at XFE, a fairly full-featured, but lightweight, X-based
file manager. It seems compatible with all window-manager only or DTE
systems. I've been using it since I upgraded to Wheezy/Openbox (No
DTE just the window manager) from Fedore 12/Gnome years ago. XFE
continued to work fine with Stretch, Buster and now Devuan Beowulf.

B

Re: Nginx and ASP.Net Core

[Patrick Kirk]

On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 at 13:37, Dan Ritter  wrote:

> Patrick Kirk wrote:
>
> 6. If serving dynamic content, where to get it
>
>
> A program running on port 5000 is a fine place to serve dynamic
> content from, but you haven't told nginx about it.
>
> I'll bet you that this "kestrel" program comes with
> documentation about using a reverse proxy, which is what you
> want nginx to do.
>
> -dsr-
>
Hi Dan,

Nginx is working well for items 1 to 6 on your list.  I followed this
tutorial:
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/aspnet/core/host-and-deploy/linux-nginx?view=aspnetcore-6.0

As you can see from the logs, there is no problem serving static files.

But I can't find how to tell nginx where to get dynamic content.

Nginx and ASP.Net Core

[Patrick Kirk]

Hi all,

I am trying to run an ASP.Net Core site on my hosted Debian box and I seem
to have messed up the configuration.  All attempts to reach the page on
port 80 get 403 Forbidden messages.

My error log says: pk@debian-s-websites:~$ sudo tail -f
/var/log/nginx/error.log 2021/12/13 06:27:24 [error] 17999#17999: *675
directory index of "/var/www/cxxxn.org/" is forbidden, client: 213.7.43.53,
server: cxxxn.org, request: "GET / HTTP/1.1", host: "www.cxxxn.org"

If I try lynx http://localhost:5000 locally I get a perfect session. So
kestrel is working but nginx is not configured correctly. I think the
mistake is in my the config file for cxxxn.org has a line saying: "index
index.html index.htm index.nginx-debian.html" To test this, I put a Hello
World file in the root folder and it was served up correctly. If I
then try http://cxxxn.org/Privacy I get a 404 error.

Does anyone know if my guess that the "index" line in the configuration is
the problem is correct?

How can I configure Nginx to serve content from Asp.Net Core where there is
no static html file being generated?

Thanks in advance.

Re: question from total newbie. a little help please

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 09:00:52 -0400
JAMES BOSWELL  wrote:

> if i divide my hard drive and install debian lynx on it. will i be
> able to effectively run debian on this laptop?

The best way to find that out is to get a Live version of Debian, and
see if boots and runs without problems.

> Device name LAPTOP-R4DB7V5U
> Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-10110U CPU @ 2.10GHz   2.59 GHz
> Installed RAM 4.00 GB (3.81 GB usable)
> Device ID CAACC244-37B7-4294-84E4-E73B9C030FDF
> Product ID 00356-02325-39311-AAOEM
> System type 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor
> Pen and touch No pen or touch input is available for this display
> 
> Edition Windows 10 Home
> Version 21H1
> Installed on ‎4/‎2/‎2021
> OS build 19043.1288
> Experience Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.3920.0
> 
> i know about enough to fill a thimble but i'm hopeful and any guidance
> would be greatly appreciated and i would follow it to the T's

Since your knowledge of Linux admittedly is severely lacking, I would
recommend thoroughly researching Linux, in general, and Debian, in
particularly, BEFORE attempting any install. And the first attempt be
on a system you don't mind trashing.

And always keep in mind: Linux is NOT Windows.  So never assume that
the way you did it on Windows will work on Linux.

Welcome to the neighborhood.

B

Re: First time WINE user looking for tutorial

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 10 Oct 2021 05:14:36 -0500
Richard Owlett  wrote:

> On 10/09/2021 10:24 AM, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > On Sat, 9 Oct 2021 09:40:21 -0500
> > Richard Owlett  wrote:
> >   
> >> [snip]
> 
> > 
> > Just be forewarned, WINE is not the catchall solution to running
> > Windows apps: The more involved codewise the program is like games
> > or Photoshop, the more problems you'll have.  
> 
> For context, I've been providing informal support to a local couple
> for decades. He is a retired pastor, now a missionary. They need a
> new computer and as part of my support, I'll be purchasing a
> replacement. As I've not used Windows since WinXP and they are pure
> Windows users I planned to dual boot Windows and Debian. Debian
> primarily for its maintenance tools. I hope WINE will run enough of
> their "must have" apps that I can use that as a selling point to move
> from Windows to Linux.

If all they've ever used is Windows, leave it at that. Don't attempt
to switch them to Linux. It will be more trouble than it's worth. Get
them a laptop with Windows, clean the preinstalled and CPU
cycles eating background crap off of it, bring it up-to-date, and you're
done. 


> > In those cases, just run Windows in a virtual machine which is what
> > I do for ALL Windows apps I need. Less or virtually no gotchas!  
> 
> On my personal machines I would have no motivation to install a VM. 
> However, I'll investigate the pros/cons of having their machine run a
> VM in which I would run Debian as a demo.

Unless they really NEED Debian or Linux, don't bother.

If you want to demo Linux just get one of the many "live" versions to
boot the system.  Then they can play with it without installing.  And
it won't do anything to their existing Windows install.

> Are there good FOSS or low cost VMs for Windows machines?

Windows has it's own VM.  Can't remember its name, but I'd recommend
VirtualBox instead -- https://www.virtualbox.org/ .  It's free and has
versions that run on Linux or Windows, among others.

B

Re: First time WINE user looking for tutorial

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 10 Oct 2021 03:28:42 +
"Russell L. Harris"  wrote:

> On Sat, Oct 09, 2021 at 08:24:38AM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> >On Sat, 9 Oct 2021 09:40:21 -0500
> >Richard Owlett  wrote:  
> 
> >Just be forewarned, WINE is not the catchall solution to running
> >Windows apps: The more involved codewise the program is like games or
> >Photoshop, the more problems you'll have. In those cases, just run
> >Windows in a virtual machine which is what I do for ALL Windows apps
> >I need. Less or virtually no gotchas!  
> 
> Richard, Can you recommend a virtual machine for Debian which can run
> Google Earth?
> 
> 

Richard didn't write that, I did -- Patrick.

I use VirtualBox for my VM needs, but why would you need to: Google
Earth has versions that run natively on Windows, OSX and Linux or you
can run it in most any web browsers -- https://earth.google.com/ --
regardless of OS.

B 

Re: First time WINE user looking for tutorial

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sat, 9 Oct 2021 09:40:21 -0500
Richard Owlett  wrote:

> I just installed WINE64 on a Bullseye system. I'm looking for a basic 
> tutorial. Got no promising hits from DuckDuckGo or Google. I did some 
> unproductive roaming of https://www.winehq.org/ .

Really? "No promising hits?" I did an "install set up wine" DuckDuckGo
search and got numerous useful hits.  Of course, if you're looking for
a Bullseye specific tutorial, I doubt if you' find one -- too new.

Maybe, these will help:

  https://itsfoss.com/use-windows-applications-linux/
  https://linuxhint.com/install-use-wine-linux/

Just be forewarned, WINE is not the catchall solution to running
Windows apps: The more involved codewise the program is like games or
Photoshop, the more problems you'll have. In those cases, just run
Windows in a virtual machine which is what I do for ALL Windows apps I
need. Less or virtually no gotchas!
 
B

Re: unhappy upgrade

[Patrick Bartek]

On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 14:49:10 -0400
"Roy J. Tellason, Sr."  wrote:

> On Sunday 03 October 2021 07:48:38 pm Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 12:49:12 -0400
> > "Roy J. Tellason, Sr."  wrote:  
>
>[snip]
>  
> > > > Reboot after each version upgrade, then do an apt-get
> > > > update/upgrade, etc.
> > > 
> > > Are you suggesting that I go through that for all of the
> > > versions, one after another?  
> > 
> > Yes.  You want to make sure that each version is fully up to date
> > BEFORE dist-upgrading to the next.  
> 
> How specifically do I do that?

Make sure your repo list in /etc/apt/ is correctly configured for
the version you just dist-upgraded to, then as root apt update ... apt
upgrade (NOT dist-upgrade).  That should do it.
 
> > Also, check that the repo sources list is correct for each
> > version.  
> 
> I'm assuming that you refer to /etc/apt/sources.list?  At the

Yes. Also check /etc/apt/sources.list.d for anything just in case.

> [snip]
> 
> > You can use dpkg to install, but it won't automatically take care
> > of dependencies.  I use gdebi-core, a command line utility, that
> > will install the .deb file correctly and install any dependencies.
> > You must be root to install.  
> 
> Is that another package that I should install?

It isn't installed as part of the OS. So, yes. However, if you don't
want to, use dpkg to install and apt-get -f to resolve the dependencies.

> > > > > [snip]
> > > 
> > > I have done similar in the passt,  with Slackware.  Which isually
> > > involves stickinng another hard drive in the machine.  I don't
> > > have one handy at present,  though,  and probably won't be
> > > getting one in the near-term.  
> > 
> > You really only need enough free space on a single drive to install
> > the new version.  I share the swap partition to conserve space. So,
> > I only need / and /home partitions for the new install. Some share
> > the /home partition, too, but I never have. The installer should
> > take care of setting up dual or multibooting as required.  
> 
> Okay,  now it sounds like you're talking about setting up another
> partition and doing a fresh install to that.  Which isn't what I
> did,  and I don't particularly plan to on that machine.  I've already
> done the one upgrade here,  it's somewhat broken,  though partially
> functional,  and I'd much rather spend my energies to fix that,
> rather than going that route...

I am. That's what I do.  I avoid dist-upgrading as I usually use
the OS until Long Term Support ends ... about 5 years, which is about
2 release versions. Saves a lot of time and headaches. In your case, it
would be the easiest, less problematical way to go since your first
dist-upgrade is partially broken. Just install Bullseye as a new
install, install what apps you need, copy over your data ... Done.

B

Re: unhappy upgrade

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 12:49:12 -0400
"Roy J. Tellason, Sr."  wrote:

> On Sunday 03 October 2021 12:11:13 am Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > On Sat, 2 Oct 2021 11:57:51 -0400
> > "Roy J. Tellason, Sr."  wrote:
> >   
> > > In recent messaging here I touched on how I'd determined that my
> > > workstation was way behind being current.  Apparently I needed to
> > > go 8->9->10->11.  I tried the first of those steps,  and things
> > > did not go well in a number of ways...  
> > 
> > First, back up all your data before starting the dist-upgrade
> > series.  
> 
> I did back up a bunch of stuff,  and it's a good thing I did,  or I
> would have lost a lot...
> 
> > Also, read and follow the Release Notes of dist-upgrade for each
> > version.  
> 
> Where are these to be found?

https://www.debian.org/releases/jessie/releasenotes
https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/releasenotes
https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/releasenotes
https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/releasenotes (Bullseye)

Here's the main document page:

https://www.debian.org/doc/

> > Reboot after each version upgrade, then do an apt-get
> > update/upgrade, etc.  
> 
> Are you suggesting that I go through that for all of the versions,
> one after another?

Yes.  You want to make sure that each version is fully up to date
BEFORE dist-upgrading to the next.

Also, check that the repo sources list is correct for each version.

> > > For some reason,  the software decided to remove virtualbox.
> > > Which is a real problem,  because it's inside a virtual machine
> > > that I do all of my mail,  so I couldn't get at my mail for a
> > > while.  In Synaptic Package Manager if I try to install it I get
> > > the following error message:
> > > 
> > > "Package virtualbox has no available version, but exists in the
> > > database.  This typically means that the package was mentioned in
> > > a dependency and never uploaded,  has been obsoleted or is not
> > > available with the contents of sources.list"
> > > 
> > > I got temporarily past this by installing 8 on this laptop I'm
> > > currently typimg on.  Some things are decidedly less convenient.  
> > 
> > Complete the dist-upgrade for all versions, then reinstall
> > VirtualBox. Be sure you saved all your VMs before the
> > dist-upgrade(s).  They may be deleted.   
> 
> Yes,  I did save them and will do so again before I proceed,  since
> I'm modifying this one as I type here... 
> > I don't use the VB version in the Debian repos, but download and
> > install the .deb directly from their web site.  During the install
> > the VB repo will be set up.  
> 
> I did do a download from their site.  But it's not clear to me where
> I need to put it and how to tell the package management software
> about it.

Did you download the .deb file of it?  You can use dpkg to install, but
it won't automatically take care of dependencies.  I use gdebi-core, a
command line utility, that will install the .deb file correctly and
install any dependencies. You must be root to install.
 
> > > Firefox is majorly different,  apparently having gone from 68.9.0
> > > --> 78.14.0esr.  It no longer uses the font that I'm telling it
> > > to,  and for some odd reason won't play any youtube videos any
> > > more.  Instead I see a message on the screen that says "if video
> > > doesn't start momentarily restart your device".  Huh?
> > > 
> > > Konqueror is also broken,  I get "Could not start proess Unable to
> > > create io-slave: klauncher said: Error loading 'kio_file'"...
> > > 
> > > Trying to open a file with Okular gets me a similar message.  
> > 
> > Complete the entire dist-upgrade before trying to fix problems.
> > The problems may fix themselves.  
> 
> For all of the versions,  straight through to 11?

More or less.  Check the repos are the correct for that version,
Update/upgrade, then reboot. The Release Notes gives full
instructions.
 
> > > I don't see any way to back out of these changes,  or any obvious
> > > place to look for where the problems are.  Suggestions welcomed.  
> > 
> > I avoid dist-upgrading, if I can because of such problems, and do a
> > clean install of the newest version on a free partition keeping the
> > old install as fallback in case something goes awry.  
> 
> I have done similar in the passt,  with Slackware.  Which isually
> involves stickinng another hard drive in the machine.  I don't have
> one handy at present,  though,  and probably won't be getting one in
> the near-term.

You really only need enough free space on a single drive to install
the new version.  I share the swap partition to conserve space. So, I
only need / and /home partitions for the new install. Some share
the /home partition, too, but I never have. The installer should take
care of setting up dual or multibooting as required.

B 

Re: unhappy upgrade

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sat, 2 Oct 2021 11:57:51 -0400
"Roy J. Tellason, Sr."  wrote:

> In recent messaging here I touched on how I'd determined that my
> workstation was way behind being current.  Apparently I needed to go
> 8->9->10->11.  I tried the first of those steps,  and things did not
> go well in a number of ways...

First, back up all your data before starting the dist-upgrade series.
Also, read and follow the Release Notes of dist-upgrade for each
version. Reboot after each version upgrade, then do an apt-get
update/upgrade, etc.

> For some reason,  the software decided to remove virtualbox.  Which
> is a real problem,  because it's inside a virtual machine that I do
> all of my mail,  so I couldn't get at my mail for a while.  In
> Synaptic Package Manager if I try to install it I get the following
> error message:
> 
> "Package virtualbox has no available version, but exists in the
> database.  This typically means that the package was mentioned in a
> dependency and never uploaded,  has been obsoleted or is not
> available with the contents of sources.list"
> 
> I got temporarily past this by installing 8 on this laptop I'm
> currently typimg on.  Some things are decidedly less convenient.

Complete the dist-upgrade for all versions, then reinstall VirtualBox.
Be sure you saved all your VMs before the dist-upgrade(s).  They
may be deleted. 

I don't use the VB version in the Debian repos, but download
and install the .deb directly from their web site.  During the
install the VB repo will be set up.

> Firefox is majorly different,  apparently having gone from 68.9.0 -->
> 78.14.0esr.  It no longer uses the font that I'm telling it to,  and
> for some odd reason won't play any youtube videos any more.  Instead
> I see a message on the screen that says "if video doesn't start
> momentarily restart your device".  Huh?
> 
> Konqueror is also broken,  I get "Could not start proess Unable to
> create io-slave: klauncher said: Error loading 'kio_file'"...
> 
> Trying to open a file with Okular gets me a similar message.

Complete the entire dist-upgrade before trying to fix problems.  The
problems may fix themselves.

> I don't see any way to back out of these changes,  or any obvious
> place to look for where the problems are.  Suggestions welcomed.

I avoid dist-upgrading, if I can because of such problems, and do a
clean install of the newest version on a free partition keeping the old
install as fallback in case something goes awry.

B

Re: Install Debian netinstall to HP Elitebook 840 G8 problem

[Patrick Bartek]

On Fri, 3 Sep 2021 09:46:24 +0200 (CEST)
Richard Forst  wrote:

> I purchased a new laptop HP Elitebook 840 G8, and am trying to
> install Debian to it. However I encounter a problem. 
> 
> I change the bios setting, but when booting from usb. What was shown
> on the screen is simply a grub env command line like

When in bios, did you disable Secureboot, Fastboot, and/or enable
Legacy option?

B

Re: clamav installation question

[Patrick Bartek]

On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 10:19:56 +0300
Semih Ozlem  wrote:

> Sorry, stopping and restarting the service seems to have solved the
> problem.

Does it work after a cold system restart without restarting it manually?
If not, my guess is some clamav or clamav-daemon dependency is not
getting loaded.  I'm not running the daemon and clamav run manually
works fine. Clamav-freshclam works fine, too, without manually starting
it.  But I'm not running a standard desktop set up. Just a window
manager and a panel.

B



> Semih Ozlem , 26 Şub 2021 Cum, 10:18
> tarihinde şunu yazdı:
> 
> > user@debian:~$ sudo systemctl status clamav-daemon.service
> > ● clamav-daemon.service - Clam AntiVirus userspace daemon
> >Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/clamav-daemon.service;
> > enabled; vendor preset: enabled)
> >   Drop-In: /etc/systemd/system/clamav-daemon.service.d
> >└─extend.conf
> >Active: inactive (dead)
> > Condition: start condition failed at Fri 2021-02-26 10:15:57 +03;
> > 1min 30s ago
> >└─
> > ConditionPathExistsGlob=/var/lib/clamav/daily.{c[vl]d,inc} was not
> > met Docs: man:clamd(8)
> >man:clamd.conf(5)
> >https://www.clamav.net/documents/
> >
> > Feb 26 10:15:57 debian systemd[1]: Condition check resulted in Clam
> > AntiVirus userspace daemon being skipped.
> >
> > Charles Curley , 26 Şub 2021 Cum,
> > 09:54 tarihinde şunu yazdı:
> >  
> >> On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 08:58:06 +0300
> >> Semih Ozlem  wrote:
> >>  
> >> > I am able to install clamav and clamav-daemon. It appears in
> >> > dpkg -l results. The problem is it is not functioning properly.
> >> > So I am wondering if anyone else had similar issues or not.  
> >>
> >> Can you be a bit more explicit? What did you get, and what were you
> >> expecting?

Re: clamav installation question

[Patrick Bartek]

On Thu, 25 Feb 2021 23:17:52 +0300
Semih Ozlem  wrote:

> Hi everyone
> 
> When I try to install clamav I am getting errots
> When I try to follow installation instructions from debian's site
> instruction
> 
> (i) clamav-data package is not available in the repository
> (ii) freshclam gives the error
> "!checkdbdir: Can't ope directory /var/lib/clamav/"
> (iii) I can't be sure if it is running or not. systemctl status
> clamav-daemon.service states it to be inactive.
> 
> when I try to follow the instructions on clamav's site
> 
> check-devel package is a requirement but is unavailable in debian
> repository.

Check your apt sources.list is set up.  Also, you have to be root to
install packages.

B

Audio broken on Lenovo ThinkPad T14 by recent upgrade on testing

[Patrick Elsen]

Hey all,

I'm not sure if this is the right way or place to report this, but I've
been running Debian bullseye (Testing) for some months now and it's
been a really great experience, everything works out of the box
(backlight, suspend, display brightness control, switching between
speakers and headphones when plugged in). 

However, in a recent update, my audio has been broken. Now, I have
three outputs that I didn't have before (labelled HDMI1, HDMI2, HDMI3),
it doesn't recognize my internal speakers or headphones anymore,
meaning that audio playback is completely broken.

I don't know what package specfically is responsible, but I have
attached the /var/log/apt/history.log entry that was the update that I
think bricked things. I can provide more logs and information if
needed.

My guess would be that alsa-topology-conf or alsa-ucm-conf are the
culprit, because those two are the only ones I see that are related to
sound and audio things?

Maybe someone here can help me or look into it.

Cheers,
-Patrick
Start-Date: 2020-12-27  23:06:21
Commandline: apt upgrade
Requested-By: patrick (1000)
Install: libdeflate0:amd64 (1.6-1, automatic), libadwaitaqtpriv1:amd64 
(1.2.0-2, automatic), llvm-11-runtime:amd64 (1:11.0.0-5+b1, automatic), 
libges-1.0-0:amd64 (1.18.2-1, automatic), libgit2-1.1:amd64 (1.1.0+dfsg.1-2, 
automatic), liblist-moreutils-xs-perl:amd64 (0.430-2, automatic), 
containerd:amd64 (1.4.3~ds1-1, automatic), libboost-locale1.74.0:amd64 
(1.74.0-3+b1, automatic), libadwaitaqt1:amd64 (1.2.0-2, automatic), 
llvm-11-dev:amd64 (1:11.0.0-5+b1, automatic), gedit-plugin-text-size:amd64 
(3.38.1-1, automatic), libplymouth5:amd64 (0.9.5-2, automatic), 
libxkbregistry0:amd64 (1.0.3-2, automatic), clang-format-11:amd64 
(1:11.0.0-5+b1, automatic), ruby-rubygems:amd64 (3.2.0~rc.2-5, automatic), 
llvm-11-tools:amd64 (1:11.0.0-5+b1, automatic), linux-image-5.9.0-5-amd64:amd64 
(5.9.15-1, automatic), llvm-11:amd64 (1:11.0.0-5+b1, automatic)
Upgrade: speech-dispatcher-espeak-ng:amd64 (0.10.2-1, 0.10.2-2), 
gir1.2-lokdocview-0.1:amd64 (1:7.0.3-4+b1, 1:7.0.4~rc2-1+b1), 
speech-dispatcher-audio-plugins:amd64 (0.10.2-1, 0.10.2-2), fdisk:amd64 
(2.36.1-2, 2.36.1-3), alsa-topology-conf:amd64 (1.2.3-1, 1.2.4-1), 
texlive-plain-generic:amd64 (2020.20200925-1, 2020.20201129-2), 
node-os-locale:amd64 (4.0.0-1, 5.0.0-1), libjson-glib-1.0-0:amd64 (1.6.0-1, 
1.6.0-2), libxencall1:amd64 (4.14.0+80-gd101b417b7-1, 4.14.0+88-g1d1d1f5391-2), 
manpages:amd64 (5.09-2, 5.10-1), perl-base:amd64 (5.32.0-5, 5.32.0-6), 
init:amd64 (1.59, 1.60), libreoffice-math:amd64 (1:7.0.3-4+b1, 
1:7.0.4~rc2-1+b1), init-system-helpers:amd64 (1.59, 1.60), libssh2-1:amd64 
(1.8.0-2.1, 1.9.0-2), node-resolve:amd64 (1.19.0+~cs4.20.2-1, 
1.19.0+~cs5.20.8-2), aspell-pt-pt:amd64 (20201103-2, 20201212-1), 
libgovirt2:amd64 (0.3.7-1, 0.3.7-2), python3-pyside2.qtwidgets:amd64 
(5.15.0-5+b1, 5.15.0-6), liblibreoffice-java:amd64 (1:7.0.3-4, 1:7.0.4~rc2-1), 
fonts-lyx:amd64 (2.3.5.2-1, 2.3.6-1), bsdextrautils:amd64 (2.36.1-2, 2.36.1-3), 
python3-cupshelpers:amd64 (1.5.12-1, 1.5.13-1), texlive-metapost-doc:amd64 
(2020.20200925-1, 2020.20201203-2), texlive-font-utils:amd64 (2020.20201129-1, 
2020.20201129-2), texlive-lang-spanish:amd64 (2020.20200925-2, 
2020.20201129-1), libseccomp2:amd64 (2.5.0-3+b1, 2.5.1-1), 
util-linux-locales:amd64 (2.36.1-2, 2.36.1-3), libencode-locale-perl:amd64 
(1.05-1, 1.05-1.1), texlive-publishers-doc:amd64 (2020.20201129-1, 
2020.20201129-2), uno-libs-private:amd64 (1:7.0.3-4, 1:7.0.4~rc2-1+b1), 
libao4:amd64 (1.2.2+20180113-1+b1, 1.2.2+20180113-1.1), libaudit-common:amd64 
(1:2.8.5-3.1, 1:3.0-1), uim-data:amd64 (1:1.8.8-6.1, 1:1.8.8-7), 
adwaita-qt:amd64 (1.1.4-1, 1.2.0-2), uim-fep:amd64 (1:1.8.8-6.1+b2, 1:1.8.8-7), 
texlive-latex-base:amd64 (2020.20200925-1, 2020.20201203-2), uuid-runtime:amd64 
(2.36.1-2, 2.36.1-3), libquvi-scripts-0.9:amd64 (0.9.20131130-1.1, 
0.9.20131130-1.2), libqt5multimediagsttools5:amd64 (5.15.1-2, 5.15.2-2), 
python3-zope.interface:amd64 (5.1.2-1, 5.1.2-1+b1), iportuguese:amd64 
(20201103-2, 20201212-1), libfdisk1:amd64 (2.36.1-1, 2.36.1-3), 
publicsuffix:amd64 (20200729.1725-1, 20201215.0006-1), javascript-common:amd64 
(11, 11+nmu1), libauthen-sasl-perl:amd64 (2.1600-1, 2.1600-1.1), 
libdrm-nouveau2:amd64 (2.4.103-1, 2.4.103-2), osinfo-db:amd64 (0.20201119-1, 
0.20201218-1), hunspell-fr:amd64 (1:6.4.1-1, 1:7.0-1), 
libreoffice-l10n-zh-cn:amd64 (1:7.0.3-4, 1:7.0.4~rc2-1), libridl-java:amd64 
(1:7.0.3-4, 1:7.0.4~rc2-1), node-jquery:amd64 (3.5.1+dfsg+~3.5.4-2, 
3.5.1+dfsg+~3.5.4-3), librygel-renderer-gst-2.6-2:amd64 (0.38.3-1, 0.40.0-1), 
libreoffice-l10n-zh-tw:amd64 (1:7.0.3-4, 1:7.0.4~rc2-1), linux-libc-dev:amd64 
(5.9.9-1, 5.9.15-1), liblist-moreutils-perl:amd64 (0.416-1+b6, 0.430-2), 
libxml-sax-base-perl:amd64 (1.09-1, 1.09-1.1), libpython3.8-dev:amd64 (3.8.6-1, 
3.8.7-1), llvm:amd64 (1:9.0-49.1, 1:11.0-51+nmu1), alsa-ucm-conf:amd64 
(1.2.3-1, 1.2.4-1), feynmf:amd

Re: Open Source Flash Alternatives

[Patrick Bartek]

On Fri, 1 Jan 2021 18:17:32 -0500
Kenneth Parker  wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 1, 2021, 10:29 AM Kenneth Parker 
> wrote:
> 
> > Since Adobe Flash is going the way of the Dodo Bird, I thought I'd
> > check up on Open Source Alternatives, since I have some
> > Standalone .swf files (games, etc).
> >
> > Two came up in my searches, Lightspark (which seems to be, mainly a
> > Plug-in), and Ghu Gnash, which I like better, since it works as a
> > Standalone Program.  Unfortunately, it doesn't seem available in
> > Bullseye (and Search didn't find it for Buster either).  It DOES
> > show up in Stretch, but that's on a different machine than where
> > my .swf files are. 
> 
> Update:  I just installed Stretch in QEMU-KVM in my "Knockabout" Mint
> 20 system and was able to install Gnash on it.  I did a bit of
> research into Gnu Gnash, seeing that it may not be currently
> maintained.  I wonder if that decision was made before Flash was
> going Extinct?
> 
> I don't consider this closed, because of the large number of
> Standalone .swf files. But I have something to test and, may contact
> gnu.org about Gnash.

Take a look at Ruffle, a "Flash player emulator" or so they say.
Open source. Available for Windows, Mac and Linux.  Haven't tried it
myself. No old Flash files laying around to test.

  https://ruffle.rs/

B

Re: MX-Linux 19.2

[Patrick Bartek]

On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 23:11:56 +0200
ellanios82  wrote:

> On 11/17/20 10:54 PM, Dan Ritter wrote:
> > ellanios82 wrote:  
> >> ??Dear List
> >>
> >>
> >> ??- am using MX-Linux 19.2 :
> >>
> >>  What steps to upgrade to 19.3 please ?
> >>  
> > 1. Find a mailing list or forum for MX-Linux.
> >
> > 2. Ask for instructions.
> >
> > You might consider reading www.mxlinux.org.
> >
> > -dsr-  
> 
> - Thank you
> 
> [ did look for mailing list for MX-Linux but could not locate]

I don't think MX-Linux has a mail list, but they do have a forum:

  https://forum.mxlinux.org/

Here's the Support page:

https://mxlinux.org/support/

B

Re: An old box running Debian 8

[Patrick Bartek]

On Wed, 11 Nov 2020 17:40:50 +0100
Miroslav Skoric  wrote:

> I have an old comp (CPU Pentium II Celeron 400 MHz, 224 MB RAM)
> running ham radio server in Debian 8. It works well in CLI, but very
> slow after starting GUI. I wonder whether it would be worth to try
> (if possible at all) to upgrade it to Debian 9. Any experience with
> such old boxes?

You are trying to do what we call in the US, a Fool's Errand, that
is, a fruitless undertaking.  If you could upgrade the RAM to 512MB or
even 1 GB, you might get usable performance with Debian 8 and a
lightweight GUI environment or, better yet, a window manager, but
certainly not with GNOME or KDE. Let me give you an example:

About 10 years ago, I installed Debian 7 on an Asus EeePC 900 with a
900MHz Celeron and 512MB RAM. I tried GNOME first, but even then it was
too much a resources behemoth to even work. LXDE was lighter;
however, even with only a browser running, system performance was
slow, but usable, if you were patient. Upgrading RAM to 1GB made all
the difference in the world turning a barely usable system into one
that while not screaming fast was adequate for simple web browsing,
video streaming, email, etc. which was what it was intended for.

So, first, before changing anything else, see if upgrading RAM does any
good with 8.

B 

Re: Replacement Email Client

[Patrick Bartek]

On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 21:23:59 -0400
Carl Fink  wrote:

> On 10/26/20 6:16 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 20:45:50 -0400
> > Carl Fink  wrote:
> >  
> >> On 10/25/20 8:28 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote:  
> >>> I'm not referring to viewing HTML emails. I already can do that in
> >>> Claws-Mail using its Dillo plugin. I'm talking about filling in
> >>> forms, etc. that are part of the HTML email and sending just the
> >>> data without "replying" in the normal sense.  This is beyond
> >>> Claws' and Dillo's capabilities.  I have to use a real browser,
> >>> log into that particular web mail account (like gmail), click on
> >>> that particular email, etc. to do so.
> >>>
> >>> I'm getting the sense that I may not be able to find a client that
> >>> can do that.  
> >> I don't remember ever getting an emailed form that was anything but
> >> a link to a web page. Who is sending you emailed inline forms?  
> > The ones I respond to are known to me and are legit --
> > organizations, businesses, government agencies, etc. -- that I do
> > business with.  To respond, I must switch to a web browser, login to
> > my email account (like gmail), find that particular email, and
> > enter the requested data either by keyboard, drop-down menu,
> > buttons, etc., then SUBMIT it.  This happens all within the email.
> > I never get forwarded to another web site. I always stay on the web
> > mail page. As far as I can tell only the data is sent. The email
> > itself is not replied to.  That is, there's nothing in the "Sent"
> > folder.  
> 
> Meaning no offense, I doubt it. I have been using email since before
> Gopher, and I have literally never received an HTML  email with an
> embedded form (that I opened, at least). I find it hard to believe
> that you get many of them.

I don't know if there is a  or not.  Someone else suggested
that.  It may be javascript.  Never checked email's code all that
closely.  Next time I get one of those type emails, I'll look.

> I think you're getting normal email with a link to a form, but (as
> you say) Dillo doesn't let you click the link, so you never realize
> what it is. Those "rate us from 1-5" things are normally five
> different links to the same online poll, with a parameter telling the
> page what rating you selected. If You opened the links in an
> HTML-aware mailer like Mutt, you could just select one of those to
> open the form in a browser.

Yes, sometimes when I use a browser for these HTML emails and click on
something, a new tab with a new URL opens.  Sometime not. Next time,
I'll check the code.

Not that it matters all that much.  All I want is a lightweight email
client that works with HTML emails, too, so I don't have to switch back
and forth to a browser, login, etc. to get things done.  

B

Re: Replacement Email Client

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 21:57:07 -0400
Dan Ritter  wrote:

> Carl Fink wrote: 
> > On 10/25/20 9:17 PM, John Hasler wrote:  
> > > Carl writes:  
> > > > I don't remember ever getting an emailed form that was anything
> > > > but a link to a web page.  
> > > I think that may be what he means.  
> > 
> > Can't be. He refers to having to log into a mail account
> > in the browser. That is never required for these mailed
> > links to forms--the form is not in your mailbox and can't
> > require you to log into GMail or whatever.  
> 
> I think we are all confused and the original questioner needs to 
> provide an example of the very strange email that they want
> to work with.

Okay.  Here's a trivial one to keep it simple:

Recently I went to my bank in person. A few days later I get an HTML
email wanting to know my level of satisfaction for the service I
received: 1 to 10, worse to best. There was a gadget in the email to
enter the number, and a SUBMIT button. That's it. I could view all this
in Claws through the Dillo plugin, but of course nothing is clickable.
So, would have to do the browser thing to respond. Not that I responded.
Too much a bother.

FWIW, all emails I get now from businesses, government agencies,
Windows users, etc. are HTML-based.  Text-based has mostly gone the way
of the dodo.

B

Re: Replacement Email Client

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 20:45:50 -0400
Carl Fink  wrote:

> On 10/25/20 8:28 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > I'm not referring to viewing HTML emails. I already can do that in
> > Claws-Mail using its Dillo plugin. I'm talking about filling in
> > forms, etc. that are part of the HTML email and sending just the
> > data without "replying" in the normal sense.  This is beyond Claws'
> > and Dillo's capabilities.  I have to use a real browser, log into
> > that particular web mail account (like gmail), click on that
> > particular email, etc. to do so.
> >
> > I'm getting the sense that I may not be able to find a client that
> > can do that.  
> 
> I don't remember ever getting an emailed form that was anything but
> a link to a web page. Who is sending you emailed inline forms?

The ones I respond to are known to me and are legit --
organizations, businesses, government agencies, etc. -- that I do
business with.  To respond, I must switch to a web browser, login to
my email account (like gmail), find that particular email, and
enter the requested data either by keyboard, drop-down menu, buttons,
etc., then SUBMIT it.  This happens all within the email. I never get
forwarded to another web site. I always stay on the web mail page. As
far as I can tell only the data is sent. The email itself is not
replied to.  That is, there's nothing in the "Sent" folder.

This happens often enough now to make having to switch to the browser
instead of being able to respond with my usual email client an annoying
inconvenience. Hence, my search for a new email client.

B 

Re: Replacement Email Client

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 14:07:00 -0500
John Hasler  wrote:

> Patrick Bartek writes:
> > But I need to view the entire email: images, graphics, etc. and be
> > able to interact with all the links, etc. and not just view them.
> > Want to get away from having to login to the mail account with a
> > browser to do so.  So, EMACS won't work for me.  
> 
> Log in to what mail account?  Gnus calls the browser and passes the
> HTML attachment to it.  No logging in involved.

I'm not referring to viewing HTML emails.  I already can do that in
Claws-Mail using its Dillo plugin. I'm talking about filling in forms,
etc. that are part of the HTML email and sending just the data without
"replying" in the normal sense.  This is beyond Claws' and Dillo's
capabilities.  I have to use a real browser, log into that particular
web mail account (like gmail), click on that particular email, etc. to
do so.

I'm getting the sense that I may not be able to find a client that can
do that.

B

Re: Replacement Email Client

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 11:42:20 -0700 (PDT)
didier gaumet  wrote:

> Le dimanche 25 octobre 2020 à 19:00:08 UTC+1, Patrick Bartek a écrit :
> 
> > Already have Dillo set up, but I need more than a viewer. I want a 
> > client that handles HTML as well as plain text emails, so I don't
> > have to login into the mail account via a browser to interact with
> > the email.  
> 
> I just tested the dillo plugin: I do not know if it is sufficient for
> your usage but after setting the plugin up, I was able to click on
> the links into the emails and most (not all) images were displayed

I have Dillo configured NOT to show images initially. Do that for
security. Reloading page usually brings them up. It will follow some
links to other pages, but for viewing purposes only. One cannot
interact and transmit data as I need to.  I have to use a real browser
for that. And that means logging in through the browser to that
particular email account.

> [...]
> > I installed Balsa in Devuan Beowulf which I'm testing, and it only 
> > installed a few libraries. Don't know if the same is true with
> > Buster. I'm still evaluating it. No opinion as yet. Wasn't able to
> > get it to receive mails, but could send. Probably an erroneous
> > setting somewhere. It was late.   
> 
> Just tested Balsa here (Buster+Gnome): I could read my emails but
> HTML was not rendered

Probably a missed setting somewhere.  But the more I look at Balsa, the
more I think it's just, for all practical purposes, a clone of
Claws-Mail.  I could be wrong.  We'll see.  Installing it for the third
try after purging it twice.

> If Claws HTML  rendering with the Dillo plugin is not satisfying
> enough for you, I fear you will need a heavy client like Thunderbird,
> Evolution or Kmail...

Oh, I hope not!!

B 

Re: Replacement Email Client

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 13:10:04 +0100
Michael  wrote:

> On Sunday, October 25, 2020 1:04:00 AM CEST, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> 
> > Any suggestions?
> 
> since this is a debian user mailinglist, my answer will be slightly
> off topic.
> 
> but i use 'trojita' (https://trojita.flaska.net) as a pure and simple
> imap based email client. but it is not in the debian repositories.

I've heard of it.  Haven't researched it.

> it does only one thing: handling email of one single imap account,
> but it does it well enough for me, so i stick with it. i don't like
> the other bloatware out there (kmail, thunderbird, claws-mail, etc.).

I have multiple imap email accounts.  If it can only handle a single
account, will be unsuitable.

> maybe it's worth a shot. ymmv
> 
>

Thanks

B

Re: Replacement Email Client

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 01:51:43 -0700 (PDT)
didier gaumet  wrote:

> Le dimanche 25 octobre 2020 à 01:10:06 UTC+2, Patrick Bartek a écrit :
> > Hi! All, 
> > 
> > Looking for recommendations for a lightweight email client that
> > will handle HTML as well as plain text to replace Claws-Mail. Have
> > been using Claws-Mail for years and before it Sylpheed. Claws used
> > to have a basic HTML plugin renderer which was sufficient, but
> > latest version does not.   
> 
> It seems that in the past, Debian provided the
> claws-mail-fancy-plugin package (a GTK2 HTML viewer). That is no
> longer the case but Debian is now providing  the
> claws-mail-dillo-viewer (a Dillo HTML viewer), and in addition to

Already have Dillo set up, but I need more than a viewer.  I want a
client that handles HTML as well as plain text emails, so I don't have
to login into the mail account via a browser to interact with the email.


> this, from Bulleye on, will be providing the
> claws-mail-litehtml-viewer package (a HTML viewer based on the
> litehml library).
> https://packages.debian.org/search?suite=all§ion=all&arch=any&searchon=all&keywords=claws+html
> 
> So, apparently, you do not need to replace claws-mail

Probably, I do.  Just a viewer plugin is insufficient.  Been using
viewers for years.  Time to move on.  Or, maybe, an interactive HTML
interpreter plugin?

> [...]
> > Both Thunderbird and Balsa have been rejected as T'bird is a
> > behemoth and no longer in development; and with Balsa, I don't want
> > to have to deal with GNOME-systemd, etc. dependencies. (I don't run
> > GNOME anyway, only a window manager Openbox, and use sysvinit and
> > not systemd as init.)   
> [...]
> 
> - As others have already stated, Thunderbird is still in development
> - I somewhat doubt installing Balsa will draw on any real Gnome or
> Systemd stuff
> https://packages.debian.org/search?suite=all§ion=all&arch=any&searchon=names&keywords=balsa

I installed Balsa in Devuan Beowulf which I'm testing, and it only
installed a few libraries.  Don't know if the same is true with Buster.
I'm still evaluating it. No opinion as yet. Wasn't able to get it to
receive mails, but could send. Probably an erroneous setting somewhere.
It was late.

Thanks for your input.

B

Re: Replacement Email Client

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 07:19:28 +0200
Teemu Likonen  wrote:

> * 2020-10-24 16:04:00-07, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> 
> > Looking for recommendations for a lightweight email client that will
> > handle HTML as well as plain text to replace Claws-Mail.  Have been
> > using Claws-Mail for years and before it Sylpheed.  
> 
> GNU Emacs mail clients "Gnus" and "Notmuch Emacs" automatically render
> HTML mail nicely as plain text. User can can also open HTML and other
> MIME parts in external viewer like web browser.
> 

I can already view the text of HTML emails with Claws-Mail.  But I need
to view the entire email: images, graphics, etc. and be able to interact
with all the links, etc. and not just view them.  Want to get away from
having to login to the mail account with a browser to do so.  So, EMACS
won't work for me.

Thanks for your suggestion.

B

Re: Replacement Email Client

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 05:55:02 +0100
Oliver Schoede  wrote:

> On Sat, 24 Oct 2020 16:04:00 -0700
> Patrick Bartek  wrote:
> 
> >
> >Looking for recommendations for a lightweight email client that will
> >handle HTML as well as plain text to replace Claws-Mail.  Have been
> >using Claws-Mail for years and before it Sylpheed.  Claws used to
> >have a basic HTML plugin renderer which was sufficient, but latest
> >version does not.  
> 
> I didn't even know it was gone, but apparently 3.17.7 just
> (re)introduced a light viewer duly taking care of people who need it.
> LiteHTML. It's packaged as claws-mail-litehtml-viewer, can't say if
> it's any good, there are other options though. Even something
> based on Dillo! ;) Not bad for a project with a different set of
> priorities. Don't like a plugin? Feeling more like using behemoth
> Firefox ('hate accessing mail through a browser'):
> 
> Config -> Preferences -> Message View -> External Programs
> 
> [snip]

I need more than just an HTML viewer.  I have dillo set up for that. It
is the default with the install. I need to be able to interact with the
HTML email without having to login via a browser to do so which I've
grown tired of.

Thanks for your reply.

B

Re: Replacement Email Client

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sat, 24 Oct 2020 21:52:54 -0400
Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Saturday 24 October 2020 19:04:00 Patrick Bartek wrote:
> 
> > Hi! All,
> >
> > Looking for recommendations for a lightweight email client that will
> > handle HTML as well as plain text to replace Claws-Mail.  Have been
> > using Claws-Mail for years and before it Sylpheed.  Claws used to
> > have a basic HTML plugin renderer which was sufficient, but latest
> > version does not. And I'm getting more and more important emails in
> > HTML where just the plain text is insufficient to fully read the
> > email.  That is, text in (or as) images contain some (or much) of
> > the content, etc. Also, hate accessing email through a browser. So
> > that option is out.
> >
> > Both Thunderbird and Balsa have been rejected as T'bird is a
> > behemoth and no longer in development; and with Balsa, I don't want
> > to have to deal with GNOME-systemd, etc. dependencies. (I don't run
> > GNOME anyway, only a window manager Openbox, and use sysvinit and
> > not systemd as init.)
> >
> > Any suggestions?
> >  
> Yes, kmail, as supplied NOT from KDE but from TDE. Its the older
> 

I'll look into it.

B

Re: Replacement Email Client

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sat, 24 Oct 2020 19:50:14 -0500
Leslie Rhorer  wrote:

> On 10/24/2020 6:04 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > 
> > Hi! All,
> > 
> > Looking for recommendations for a lightweight email client that will
> > handle HTML as well as plain text  
> 
>   I want to know that, myself.
> 
> > deal with GNOME-systemd, etc. dependencies. (I don't run GNOME
> > anyway, only a window manager Openbox, and use sysvinit and not
> > systemd as  
> 
>   I don't run Gnome, either, but I did take the plunge and
> learn enough about systemd to get along.  I still don't like it, and
> it remains a very obtuse system designed to do things that fail to
> impress me.  It seems it may be inevitable to become universal.
> 

As long as there are those who don't want systemd, someone out there
will fill that need. That's why Devuan exists (and some others).

I've been testing Devuan Beowulf (Buster) with the Openbox window
manager (my normal configuration) for several weeks now and it's stable,
has all the apps that Debian does. Works just fine without systemd. So,
it can be done. Time will tell.

B 

Re: Replacement Email Client

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 17:22:35 +1100
Keith Bainbridge  wrote:

> On 25/10/20 12:52 pm, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Both Thunderbird and Balsa have been rejected as T'bird is a
> > behemoth and no longer in development;  
> 
> 
> Um.   Why then am I getting new versions every few weeks?
> Currently 83.0a1.  Sure it's bigger than claws, but many processes are
> easier in day to day operation.

Mozilla has ceased the development; however, it is still "supported" --
security, bug fixes? -- but privately.  Maybe, a group other than
Mozilla has taken over development.  Don't know.

B

Replacement Email Client

[Patrick Bartek]

Hi! All,

Looking for recommendations for a lightweight email client that will
handle HTML as well as plain text to replace Claws-Mail.  Have been
using Claws-Mail for years and before it Sylpheed.  Claws used to have
a basic HTML plugin renderer which was sufficient, but latest version
does not. And I'm getting more and more important emails in HTML where
just the plain text is insufficient to fully read the email.  That is,
text in (or as) images contain some (or much) of the content, etc.
Also, hate accessing email through a browser. So that option is out.

Both Thunderbird and Balsa have been rejected as T'bird is a behemoth
and no longer in development; and with Balsa, I don't want to have to
deal with GNOME-systemd, etc. dependencies. (I don't run GNOME anyway,
only a window manager Openbox, and use sysvinit and not systemd as
init.)

Any suggestions?  

Thanks

B

Re: can't boot to a graphical interface.

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sat, 3 Oct 2020 13:39:22 -0400
Frank McCormick  wrote:

> On 10/3/20 11:20 AM, Kent West wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > On Sat, Oct 3, 2020 at 8:01 AM songbird  > > wrote:
> > 
> > Frank McCormick wrote:  
> >  > While compiling an application today my Debian bullseye
> >  > system  
> > somehow  
> >  > got messed up. It will boot to a CLI but no X, apparently
> >  > because  
> > for  
> >  > some reason the system is unable to access some files in
> >  > /usr/share/dbus-1. It keeps saying access denied. The
> >  > directories  
> > and  
> >  > files are owned by root, and if I noot to a CLI I have no
> >  > trouble accessing them using sudo and midnight commander.
> >  >
> >  > I tried reinstalling systemd but it ended with the same
> >  > problem.  
> > 
> > 
> > On my bullseye/sid lappie, for comparison to yours:
> > 
> > kent@westk-9463:~$ ls -lah /usr/share/dbus-1/
> > total 84K
> > drwxr-xr-x   8 root root 4.0K Sep 17 19:55 .
> > drwxr-xr-x 610 root root  20K Sep  5 16:26 ..
> > drwxr-xr-x   2 root root 4.0K Aug  6 20:50 accessibility-services
> > drwxr-xr-x   2 root root  12K Aug  6 21:03 interfaces
> > drwxr-xr-x   2 root root  20K Aug  6 20:55 services
> > -rw-r--r--   1 root root 3.6K Jul  2 08:19 session.conf
> > drwxr-xr-x   2 root root 4.0K Sep 17 19:55 session.d
> > -rw-r--r--   1 root root 5.7K Jul  2 08:19 system.conf
> > drwxr-xr-x   2 root root 4.0K Sep 17 19:55 system.d
> > drwxr-xr-x   2 root root 4.0K Aug  6 21:08 system-services
> > 
> > kent@westk-9463:~$ ls -lahd /usr/share/dbus-1/
> > drwxr-xr-x 8 root root 4.0K Sep 17 19:55 /usr/share/dbus-1/
> >   
> 
> 
> My system now is back to **normal**. I re-installed
> about a dozen packages including systemd.
> I also changed one mode  to match yours.
> 
> frank@franklin:~$ ls -lah /usr/share/dbus-1/
> total 44K
> drwxr-xr-x   6 root root 4.0K Oct  3 10:08 .
> drwxr-xr-x 246 root root  12K Oct  2 16:56 ..
> drwxr-xr-x   2 root root 4.0K Oct  3 10:08 interfaces
> drwxr-xr-x   2 root root 4.0K Oct  3 09:20 services
> -rw-r--r--   1 root root 3.6K Jul  2 09:19 session.conf
> -rw-r--r--   1 root root 5.7K Jul  2 09:19 system.conf
> drwxr-xr-x   2 root root 4.0K Oct  3 10:08 system.d
> drwxr-xr-x   2 root root 4.0K Oct  3 10:08 system-services
> 
> Still don't know what the h*ll happened.

You are using "testing" and an Alpha 2 Release after all.  So, expect
the occassional "gotcha."  It's the nature of the beast.

B

Re: Buster with MATE without systemd

[Patrick Bartek]

On Fri, 18 Sep 2020 10:23:15 +0300
Andrei POPESCU  wrote:

> On Mi, 16 sep 20, 10:32:14, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > 
> > Short answer?  Probably not.  systemd has become too pervasive a
> > dependency to do so.  It shouldn't be.  No other init system I know
> > of is.  
> 
> Funny how systemd is constantly "blamed" that *other* packages depend
> on it.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Andrei

I'm not laughing.  A lot of others aren't either.  And systemd isn't
really blamed per se, even though there are a lot of people who hate
it. It's the dependency to it that cause the problems. And it's not like
it's impossible to have Debian without those dependencies. Devuan is
proof of that.

I blame lazy GNOME3 developers for starting it all.

B

Re: Buster with MATE without systemd

[Patrick Bartek]

On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 19:44:03 -0700
Marc Shapiro  wrote:

> On 9/16/20 5:55 PM, David Wright wrote:
> > On Wed 16 Sep 2020 at 16:15:12 (-0700), Patrick Bartek wrote:  
> >> On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 13:52:15 -0400
> >> Greg Wooledge  wrote:  
> >>> On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 10:32:14AM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:  
> >>>> To make a long story short, after two or so weeks of research and
> >>>> numerous failed trials, I came to the conclusion that systemd has
> >>>> become too entrenched in the dependency tree of Buster to successfully
> >>>> convert to systvinit.  
> >>> If you specify "... on a desktop system", then maybe you're correct.
> >>>
> >>> For most servers, it shouldn't be an issue.  
> >> The subject _was_ about desktops, MATE specifically, not servers.
> >>
> >> However, my trials with Buster was from a year ago.  And I haven't
> >> tried a sysvinit install with it since. Perhaps some systemd
> >> dependencies have been eliminated.  Be great if they all were! Init
> >> systems should never ever be dependencies.  
> > I know little to nothing about DEs. However, I see that there are
> > people who run MATE without running a systemd init system. This (dated)
> > link makes a distinction between installation dependencies and runtime
> > dependencies, so I presume that you might be able to put up with the
> > presence of unused systemd packages in the installation.
> >
> > https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/279603/using-mate-desktop-without-systemd
> >
> > Later:
> >  
> >> […] Had no problems converting to
> >> sysvinit with a terminal only system.  First thing I did.  I always
> >> start my installs that way and build from there.  Lighter, faster, more
> >> efficient system without all the crud that comes with a general DE
> >> install.  
> > I would certainly recommend that the OP did that, rather than
> > converting as an afterthought.  
> 
> Unfortunately, as it says at the bottom of that page, systemd-shim is no 
> longer available.  It worked in Jessie, I used it then, but is not an 
> option, now.
> 
> As for installing only a minimal, textbased, system and then converting 
> -- I'm sure that works, until you try to install xorg and Mate.  That is 
> where things start to get 'fun.'  Dependencies are dependencies.  
> Running without a DE, or even a different DE is not an option in this 
> case.  I am not the only one using this box.  My wife is now working 
> from home and my daughter's college is strictly distance learning.  
> (Thank you Caronavirus Pandemic.) I can not go changing how things work 
> for them at this time.
> 
> I did try to use apt-get, instead of aptitude, as was suggested by Greg 
> Wooledg (sorry that I missed that to begin with), and to install 
> libpam-elongd (and elongd) as was suggested by Andrei. Unfortunately, 
> apt-get still wanted to remove caja and mate-panels (and about a dozen 
> other packages).  Without mate-panels, the DE is pretty much unusable.  
> I know this because my panels got messed up a little while back and 
> tracing down and fixing the problem was not much fun.
> 
> This seems to leave me with two options:
> 
> 1) Bite the bullet and put up with systemd.
> 
> 2) Switch to Devuan.  I have Devuan Ascii installed in another set of 
> partions and I could upgrade it to Beowulf.
> 
> I don't really like either of these options.  I have been running Debian 
> for the past 21, or 22 years (since Bo, i believe).  I'd rather not 
> switch.  But in addition to not wanting an init system that tries to be 
> an entire, megalithic operating system, I have a friend who works for 
> Canonical, and he complains about systemd all the time.
> 
> If anyone can suggest any other options, I am open to suggestions.

Upgrade your Devuan ASCII(Stretch) to Beowulf(Buster) and try it out.
Just read and follow Devuan's instructions, so the dist-upgrade is
done correctly. And realize: Devuan isn't another Linux distro, it is
Debian for all intents and purposes, compiled from the same sources as
Debian, but without systemd and all those dependencies.  It looks and
performs the same. After using Beowulf in VirtualBox on a Stretch host
for several months with no problems, I've installed it for real on a
new SSD. No problems. It's your's (and mine's) easiest solution to
systemd.

Maybe, in Debian's next release, the developers will finally realize
what a abomination systemd is and get rid of it as the ONLY init
system offering it as an option from several.

B

Re: Buster with MATE without systemd

[Patrick Bartek]

On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 19:55:45 -0500
David Wright  wrote:

> On Wed 16 Sep 2020 at 16:15:12 (-0700), Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 13:52:15 -0400
> > Greg Wooledge  wrote:  
> > > On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 10:32:14AM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:  
> > > > To make a long story short, after two or so weeks of research and
> > > > numerous failed trials, I came to the conclusion that systemd has
> > > > become too entrenched in the dependency tree of Buster to successfully
> > > > convert to systvinit.
> > > 
> > > If you specify "... on a desktop system", then maybe you're correct.
> > > 
> > > For most servers, it shouldn't be an issue.  
> > 
> > The subject _was_ about desktops, MATE specifically, not servers.
> > 
> > However, my trials with Buster was from a year ago.  And I haven't
> > tried a sysvinit install with it since. Perhaps some systemd
> > dependencies have been eliminated.  Be great if they all were! Init
> > systems should never ever be dependencies.  
> 
> I know little to nothing about DEs. However, I see that there are
> people who run MATE without running a systemd init system. This (dated)
> link makes a distinction between installation dependencies and runtime
> dependencies, so I presume that you might be able to put up with the
> presence of unused systemd packages in the installation.
> 
> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/279603/using-mate-desktop-without-systemd

This is outdateded -- It's for Jessie.  systemd only had a toe hold
then.  It's more entrenched now with Buster.  Converting Stretch to
sysvinit too only installing sysvinit.  That install took care of the
rest.  Not so with Buster with xorg.  Sysvinit still installs and
works just fine with a terminal system though. 

> Later:
> 
> > […] Had no problems converting to
> > sysvinit with a terminal only system.  First thing I did.  I always
> > start my installs that way and build from there.  Lighter, faster, more
> > efficient system without all the crud that comes with a general DE
> > install.  
> 
> I would certainly recommend that the OP did that, rather than
> converting as an afterthought.

Once you install a DE, getting rid of it (or parts of it) is impossible.
Too many interconnected dependencies.  I know.  I've tried.  That's how
I learned to build a system from a basic terminal install instead.

B

Re: Buster with MATE without systemd

[Patrick Bartek]

On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 22:22:17 +0300
Reco  wrote:

>   Hi.
> 
> On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 10:32:14AM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > dbus, which is an xorg dependency,  
> 
> Not in buster:
> 
> # apt policy dbus
> dbus:
>   Installed: (none)
>   Candidate: 1.12.20-0+deb10u1
>   Version table:
>  1.12.20-0+deb10u1 500
> 500 http://ftp.debian.org/debian buster/main amd64 Packages
> 
> # apt policy xserver-xorg
> xserver-xorg:
>   Installed: 1:7.7+19
>   Candidate: 1:7.7+19
>   Version table:
>  *** 1:7.7+19 500
> 500 http://ftp.debian.org/debian buster/main amd64 Packages
> 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
> 
> 
> > but it itself has a systemd dependency.  
> 
> Not in buster, again:

Perhaps, I wrongly remembered.  It has been a year ago.  And my
install notes have long since been destroyed.  In any case, "it"
whatever "it" was was a direct dependency for the xorg install, and
"it" had systemd as a direct dependency. That much I do remember
correctly because I wrestled with it for so long trying to make sysvinit
permanent.

> # apt policy dbus
> dbus:
>   Installed: 1.12.20-0+deb10u1
>   Candidate: 1.12.20-0+deb10u1
>   Version table:
>  *** 1.12.20-0+deb10u1 500
> 500 http://ftp.debian.org/debian buster/main amd64 Packages
> 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
> 
> # apt policy systemd
> systemd:
>   Installed: (none)
>   Candidate: 241-7~deb10u4
>   Version table:
>  241-7~deb10u4 500
> 500 http://ftp.debian.org/debian buster/main amd64 Packages
> 
> 
> > To make a long story short, after two or so weeks of research and
> > numerous failed trials, I came to the conclusion that systemd has
> > become too entrenched in the dependency tree of Buster to successfully
> > convert to systvinit.  
> 
> But it is possible. Just forget about running any DE.

Or running a window manager, etc.  Had no problems converting to
sysvinit with a terminal only system.  First thing I did.  I always
start my installs that way and build from there.  Lighter, faster, more
efficient system without all the crud that comes with a general DE
install.

> 
> > Even trying to install something that has no systemd dependency at all
> > depends on something, that depends on something else, etc. that has a
> > systemd dependency.  And systemd gets reinstalled.  
> 
> apt install something systemd-
> 
> Works wonders in cases such as this.

Tried that and a couple variations, too.  Resulted in that particular
part of the install stopping or failing due to "missing dependencies"
or some such error.

B

Re: Buster with MATE without systemd

[Patrick Bartek]

On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 13:52:15 -0400
Greg Wooledge  wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 10:32:14AM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > To make a long story short, after two or so weeks of research and
> > numerous failed trials, I came to the conclusion that systemd has
> > become too entrenched in the dependency tree of Buster to successfully
> > convert to systvinit.  
> 
> If you specify "... on a desktop system", then maybe you're correct.
> 
> For most servers, it shouldn't be an issue.

The subject _was_ about desktops, MATE specifically, not servers.

However, my trials with Buster was from a year ago.  And I haven't
tried a sysvinit install with it since. Perhaps some systemd
dependencies have been eliminated.  Be great if they all were! Init
systems should never ever be dependencies.

B

Re: Buster with MATE without systemd

[Patrick Bartek]

On Tue, 15 Sep 2020 19:28:34 -0700
Marc Shapiro  wrote:

> I have a fresh install of Buster which is running MATE as the Desktop 
> Environment.  It has taken me until now to get it working, without 
> messing up my current Stretch install on the same machine.  The next 
> thing that I want to do is replace systemd with sysvinit.  I am not 
> trying to start a flamewar about which is better.  I want sysvinit, not 
> systemd, let's leave it at that.
> 
> I ran 'aptitude install sysvinit-core'.  This resulted in about 2 dozen 
> [snip]
> 
>
> So, my question is:  Can I replace systemd with sysvint and still keep 
> MATE?  Do I need to let aptitude uninstall MATE, and then reinstall 
> after sysvinit has been installed?  Or have MATE and the GIMP been 
> updated in a way that requires systemd and not sysvinit?

Short answer?  Probably not.  systemd has become too pervasive a
dependency to do so.  It shouldn't be.  No other init system I know of
is.

> If it is possible to do what I want, what is the easiest way to 
> accomplish it?

Last year, I tried to install Buster with sysvinit as I had done
previously with Stretch.  I started with a basic terminal install.
(Ultimately intending to have Openbox window manager and a single
lxpanel for my GUI as I had done with Stretch.) I converted Buster to
sysvinit with no problems. It rebooted and all looked fine until I
tried to install xorg. I noted that sysvinit would be uninstalled and
systemd reinstalled.  I still had all the systemd libraries. They
hadn't been removed. And I wasn't trying to created a systemd-less
system. Even trying a minimal xorg install resulted in the same
problem. The culprit?  dbus, which is an xorg dependency, but it itself
has a systemd dependency.

To make a long story short, after two or so weeks of research and
numerous failed trials, I came to the conclusion that systemd has
become too entrenched in the dependency tree of Buster to successfully
convert to systvinit.  Even trying to install something that has no
systemd dependency at all depends on something, that depends on
something else, etc. that has a systemd dependency.  And systemd
gets reinstalled.

I think to do what you want to do with Buster will require a complete
recompile from source removing all systemd dependencies.

My solution?  Devuan Beowulf(Buster). All systemd dependencies have
been removed, etc.  Sysvinit runs just fine. It's the default.  You even
have the option to use Openrc as an init, but it's still listed as
"experimental."

Good Luck. 

B

Re: VirtualBox - vboxpci

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 6 Sep 2020 19:23:46 -0600
 wrote:

> -Original Message-
> From: Klaus Jantzen [mailto:k.d.jant...@mailbox.org] 
> Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 8:05 AM
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Subject: Re: VirtualBox - vboxpci
> 
> On 9/6/20 12:27 PM, Georgi Naplatanov wrote:
> > On 9/6/20 12:17 PM, Klaus Jantzen wrote:  
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I am trying to run VB 16.1.14 r140239 on my laptop under Debian Buster.
> >>
> >> After sucessfully signing vboxdrv, vboxnetflt and vboxnetadp I 
> >> installed the extension package.
> >>
> >> Now I have to additionally sign vboxpci.
> >>
> >> However, this module was not installed. Where do I get it from?
> >>  
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I use Virtualbox 6.1 on my computer without any problems.
> >
> > I don't understand what your problem is.
> >
> > I have added the following line to /etc/apt//sources.list
> >
> > deb https://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian buster contrib
> >
> > HTH
> >
> > Kind regards
> > Georgi
> >  
> My problem is not the installation of VB.

It probably is based on the fact that you're having problems. Correctly
installed VB runs right "out of the box."

> After the installation I defined a Windows10-machine. When I start
> this machine VB indicates that the kernel driver ist not installed and
> recommends to run '/sbin/vboxconfig'.
> 
> vboxconfig request the signing of four modules, one of them is vboxpci. 
> And this module has not been installed.
> 
> So I wonder where I can  find this module.
> 

Is dkms installed on your host machine? You will also need the specific
kernel headers for your kernel(s).  And, of course, you'll need the
compiler gcc and all its various header files and dependencies. Read
the VirtualBox manual. It covers all the steps to do before actually
installing VirtualBox. I'd also download the VirtualBox .deb file
directly from VB's web site and use it instead of the version in
Buster's repo.  That way VB's repo will be installed and configured,
too, so you will get the most current updates.

B

Re: how to test disk for bad sector

[Patrick Bartek]

On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 21:41:06 + (UTC)
Long Wind  wrote:

>On Monday, August 31, 2020, 12:24:54 PM EDT, Patrick Bartek 
>  wrote:  
> 
> My solution to all this has been to delete all my Yahoo accounts and be
> done with Yahoo.  Currently, I have only one account left which I'll be
> keeping for a few months until I can switch all the contacts over to
> the new email account under a different provider.
> 
> To our OP in China: check if Zoho Mail is blocked. They have offices in
> China -- www.zoho.com.cn  So, I doubt they are. They have both free and
> for pay accounts. Lots of features, too.
> 
> B
> surely it's not blocked in china because it has business here. but
> email's heyday is over, it's replaced by social media.

Social media is for socializing. In business, email and written/typed
mail are still the preferred way to communicate.

> i'm not enthusiastic about new accounts. i have many old mails in
> yahoo account, i can't just abandon it.  i've just created msn(outlook)

Those old/saved emails can be copied to the new account.  That's what I
did when I began deleting my Yahoo accounts.

> account, i'm not using it. i haven't created Proton mail account
> suggested by Charles. my memory is poor, i can't remember many accounts
> and passwords

I can't remember all my account logins and passwords either.  Too
many.  I write it all down.  And I definitely don't store them on my
computer or cell phone, etc. to automatically log me in  Too easy to
hack.

> now i manage to post in yahoo, Thanks anyway!

Whatever works best for you.  But, at least, go into Settings for your
Yahoo Mail account and turn-on quoting for your replies.  You can also
create as signature which can be appended to all you emails, too.

Happy you got your Linux install problem solved.

B

Re: how to test disk for bad sector

[Patrick Bartek]

On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 15:04:46 +0100
Darac Marjal  wrote:

> On 31/08/2020 14:18, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:
> > On 30/08/2020 19:02, Long Wind wrote:  
> >> On Sunday, August 30, 2020, 10:20:53 AM EDT, Charles Curley
> >>  wrote:  
> >>> Yahoo mail is broken. I encourage Mr. Wind to get another mail reader.  
> >>
> >>
> >> i don't have choice. gmail is blocked in china. i've tried some free
> >> chinese mail provider, they block debian list. (i've sent subscription
> >> request thru their mail service, then nothing happened)  
> > Pretty much all webmail services are bad with regards to proper quoting
> > and interleaved text. Some are worse than others, though.
> >
> > Does Yahoo provide IMAP/SMTP support? Then you can use a real mail
> > client (Thunderbird/KMail/mutt/etc).
> >  
> Yes, it does. Yahoo! are moving over to 2FA authentication everywhere
> (which is obviously not compatible with IMAP/SMTP) so you'll be
> encouraged to create an "Application Specific Password" (that is, a
> long, unique password, which you should use for one instance of one
> application) for tools like Mutt, GetMail etc. I *think* Thunderbird
> supports 2FA, though - use the new account Wizard to assist you.
> 

The switch to the "new" set up is scheduled for 20 October 2020. If you
have a Yahoo Mail account, you should have gotten a notice already
with instruction links for adapting to the new system based on your
OS and email client.  Not needed if you use Yahoo's mail client or Web
access.

I myself use Claws Mail as my email client and Yahoo has had a nasty
habit over the past few years of "timing it out" for security reasons as
"too old." "Too old" means about 2 years.  Currently, I'm still using
Stretch and even the Backports version of Claws won't work with Yahoo
Mail. Works with everything else though. Fortunately, I had an install
of Devuan Beowulf (Buster but without systemd) in a VM for testing, and
the version of Claws there works fine.

My solution to all this has been to delete all my Yahoo accounts and be
done with Yahoo.  Currently, I have only one account left which I'll be
keeping for a few months until I can switch all the contacts over to
the new email account under a different provider.

To our OP in China: check if Zoho Mail is blocked. They have offices in
China -- www.zoho.com.cn  So, I doubt they are. They have both free and
for pay accounts. Lots of features, too.

B

Re: how to test disk for bad sector

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sat, 29 Aug 2020 05:46:52 + (UTC)
Long Wind  wrote:

>  === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
> SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
> Num  Test_Description    Status  Remaining  LifeTime(hours)  
> LBA_of_first_error
> # 1  Extended offline    Completed without error   00%  3891 -
> # 2  Short offline   Completed without error   00%  3890 -
> it's unbelievable that both tests passedi've installed debian to it some time 
> ago, it
> failedtoday i install fedora from usb stick
> while waiting for copying i'm doing something else, not paying attention to 
> pc screen.
> suddenly i find that pc is shutdown
> the most unreliable component of my pc is hard diski've installed linux to 
> other disk of
> same PC, no problem

Based on your numerous checks of the hard disk, and it passing
everything, everytime, the disk is viable.  Your problem is elsewhere.

Run a checksum on the original downloaded installation file, if your
still have it. Checksum the media you installed it to.

Are you installing UEFI or MBR boot option?  Does your hardware support
UEFI?  Depending on how old the system is, it may not.   Are you
installing along with other OSes on the system intending to multiboot
them?  Is Windows installed on the system?

Also, please, please, please don't top post.  It makes it hard to follow
who's replying to whom about what.

B


> On Saturday, August 29, 2020, 11:35:55 AM GMT+8, Patrick Bartek 
>  wrote:  
>  
>  On Sat, 29 Aug 2020 02:59:53 + (UTC)
> Long Wind  wrote:
> 
> > installation of linux to sdb1 failsi believe hard disk has bad sectori use 
> > e2fsck with -c, i.e. read-only testit doesn't  report any error  
> 
> How does install fail?  Which version of Debian did you try to install?
> Did you read Installation Manual first?  You said install was to sdb1.
> Did you want a single partition install?
> 
> B
>   

Re: how to test disk for bad sector

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sat, 29 Aug 2020 02:59:53 + (UTC)
Long Wind  wrote:

> installation of linux to sdb1 failsi believe hard disk has bad sectori use 
> e2fsck with -c, i.e. read-only testit doesn't  report any error

How does install fail?  Which version of Debian did you try to install?
Did you read Installation Manual first?  You said install was to sdb1.
Did you want a single partition install?

B

Re: Homebuilt NAS: System Drive Filesystem?

[Patrick Bartek]

On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 09:37:20 +0300
Andrei POPESCU  wrote:

> On Lu, 24 aug 20, 09:26:57, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > 
> > Since F2FS is not supported directly for an install, one would have to
> > convert to it after or configure the flash drive with another computer
> > before the install. I don't know if it is worth the time to do so.
> > EXT4 without journaling would be easier.  
> 
> The journal is written to only if the filesystem is written to as well.  

Yes, and every time a log is written to, too.  On my main system,
normal usage, journaling on, I'm getting hard drive activity about 2 to
3 times a minute 24/7/365. And currently, I have firewall logging off
which was writing to log every 2 seconds or so.  The two Roku devices I
have, for some reason, were trying to access this computer, but no
others.  Don't know why.

Some have suggested to remount / read-only, but since my plan is not to
have a separate /home partition, that would cause problems. Probably
will cause problems even if I do.

However, the NAS software I plan to use (OpenMediaVault) has a
specific plugin if you're using solid state devices for the system
and/or DATA drives.  Don't know exactly what it does, or whether it's a
binary or an executable script.  Guess I'll have to wait until I get to
the point of installing it to see what it does.  No details are given
in OMV's docs.
 
> Without having any other data than my own, admittedly limited, 
> experience[1] it doesn't seem worth disabling the journal, it is only 
> written when the filesystem is written to as well anyway.

At least the flash drive I'm using has wear leveling.  And I'm going to
leave about 15% of it unpartitioned to be safe. Plus, clone it, so if
it goes down, I just plug in the clone and I'm up and running.

> [1] all my current systems are running from SD cards, with the only 
> optimisation being to not configure any swap.

Thanks for your input.

B

Re: Homebuilt NAS: System Drive Filesystem?

[Patrick Bartek]

On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 10:40:30 +0100
Jonathan Dowland  wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 09:02:05PM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> >Opinions?  Suggestions?  Recommendations?  
> 
> If I were doing this, I would remount / as read-only after boot, see
> what complains, and make adjustments to either stop those processes
> writing, or redirect where they write to (such as mounting something
> else over /var/log, or disabling logging, or disabling cron jobs for
> services I don't really need, etc)

Some good suggestions.  Although, I'm not sure which ones would be
practical or even possible.  Have to do a default install to see how
things get set up.

> I've never used F2FS, I did read a bit about it when it was first
> announced. It's had several decades less battle-hardening than plain
> old ext4, so I'd personally be inclined to avoid it.

Since F2FS is not supported directly for an install, one would have to
convert to it after or configure the flash drive with another computer
before the install. I don't know if it is worth the time to do so.
EXT4 without journaling would be easier.

> But I'd also avoid trying to run / on a flash drive. I just use a
> logical volume on my NAS storage for the OS. I can't see a reason not
> to.

Of the three or four dedicated NAS software packages I've looked at,
all require installing the OS, etc. on its own dedicated drive and NOT
on a drive DATA will be stored on.  Although, I'm sure there's a hack to
do otherwise. On this old box I'm using, it does have an IDE port
(Master and Slave), so I could use that instead of a flash drive, but I
don't have any IDE drives anymore.

Thanks for the input.

B

Re: Homebuilt NAS: System Drive Filesystem?

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 23 Aug 2020 14:26:15 -0700
David Christensen  wrote:

> On 2020-08-23 11:22, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 01:49:45 -0700
> > David Christensen  wrote:
> >   
> >> On 2020-08-21 21:02, Patrick Bartek wrote:  
> >>>
> >>> Hi! All:
> >>>
> > [snip]
> >
> > Mine's the Ultra Fit, too, but 32GB. I've done some addtional research,
> > and it looks like it has wear leveling built in. > Read a SanDisk blurb
> > that all their solid state devices have it by default.   
> 
> AIUI all USB flash drives have wear-leveling -- it is a practical 
> requirement.  Otherwise, "hot spots" would wear out patches very quickly.

Wasn't always that way. Even now I wouldn't expect it on cheap "Made in
China" ones which would get lost long before they wear out. :)

> 
> > In any case, the
> > NAS software I'll be using (OpenMediaVault) has a specific plugin for
> > solid state to reduce write wear to a minimum.  
> 
> If they've done the engineering, figured it out, and made it a plug-in, 
> that sounds ideal.  If you find an explanation of how they do it, please 
> post a link.

I've checked the docs and nothing on what that particular plugin
actually does.  OMV just recommends installing it when using flash
or ssds. Once I installed, I'll look around to see if I can find out
what it's doing.

> 
> >> I used a 2015 MacBook Pro 15 with VirtualBox and a Debian desktop as a
> >> [snip]
> >>
> >>
> >> If I wanted to use a USB flash drive as a Debian system drive again, I
> >> would probably just go with an Ultra Fit 16 GB and ext4.  They are
> >> inexpensive; and if they fail too often, I would try a high endurance SD
> >> card and USB adapter.  
> > 
> > My plan is after the OS install and configuring to just clone the drive
> > for a quick reinstall, if or when it's needed.  
> 
> Clones are nice.  Good appliances often include backup and restore features.

Haven't gotten that far into the docs which are poor to say the least.

> 
> >> Tuning the system to minimize flash drive writes sounds appealing, but I
> >> never had much success at it.  Mounting the root filesystem with
> >> 'relatime' or 'noatime' options sounds like a good way to break things,
> >> and I'm not going to audit an entire Debian system to figure it out.  I
> >> tried running without swap -- that is a good way to crash your systems.
> >> I have not tried alternate filesystems, because I want to be able to
> >> boot a standard Debian Installer and run the rescue console when needed
> >> (thus precluding ZFS, which I really want).  One trick I have not tried
> >> is a USB disk on module.  Eventually SSD's became cheap enough that I
> >> replaced all of the USB flash drives, so I have not pursued this.  
> > 
> > I'll use "relatime" instead of "noatime." "Relatime" is said to
> > create less problems with software that needs dates/times when files,
> > etc. were last modified, accessed, etc.  
> 
> I only use 'relatime' on data disks.  I would not use it on a root 
> filesystem.   /boot might be okay.  (I let the installer set the boot, 
> swap, and root entries in fstab and I am loath to touch them.)

We'll see if "relatime" proves bad for / since, except for swap, it will
be the only partition on the system drive.  This old box doesn't support
UEFI/GPT.

> 
> > My systems rarely use swap, and when they does it's only a few
> > kilobytes. My main 1-year old under-the-desk box with 16GB RAM has
> > yet to use any.  
> 
> Run from RAM is definitely the best situation.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> 
> > OpenMediaVault, to its credit, is very lightweight and
> > RAM efficient. Perfect for the home NAS on an old system.  
> 
> I have mixed feelings about pre-rolled appliance distributions.  If I 
> can fumble my way through the UI and solve my needs without 
> understanding what is going on under the hood, okay.  I did this with 
> IPCop for years.  (And, it was simple enough that I could mess around 
> under the hood.)  But, when I tried to make changes and understand what 
> was going on under the hood of FreeNAS, it was a disaster.  I started 
> over with FreeBSD RELEASE and rolled my own.

I initially thought of rolling my own, too, just for the learning
experience, but OMV would save so much time and seems very
configurable.  And it is open source.  Uses Debian as its OS.

B 

Re: Homebuilt NAS: System Drive Filesystem?

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 01:49:45 -0700
David Christensen  wrote:

> On 2020-08-21 21:02, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > 
> > Hi! All:
> > 
> > For my Homebuilt NAS [specs below], I've decided on a very small 32GB
> > SanDisk flash drive for the system drive to keep the 6 available SATA
> > II connectors free for storage drives. But I'm concerned about writes
> > wearing out the flash drive too soon. I don't know if it has wear
> > leveling built in.  Nothing in the specs about it. So, worse case, I'll
> > assume it doesn't.
> > 
> > For that reason, I thought EXT4 without journaling would work well.  No
> > journaling -- issues that causes aside -- would reduce writes a lot.
> > Then I came across F2FS which I hadn't heard of.  After some reading,
> > it seems the perfect filesystem for my purposes: It's more "modern" and
> > faster than EXT4, designed specifically for solid state devices, and
> > available in the Debian Repo. (I plan to use OpenMediaVault NAS
> > software which is Debian based.)
> > 
> > Opinions?  Suggestions?  Recommendations?
> > 
> > Thanks
> > 
> > 
> > B
> > 
> > THE BOX: ASRock 770DE+ BIOS/MBR Only MB (EFI/GPT Not Supported), AMD
> > Phenom II X4 CPU at 3.0GHz, 8GB DDR2 RAM (16GB Max), 6 SATA II, 1 IDE
> > (Master and Slave) -- IDE DVD Writer on Master, 1 Floppy connector, but
> > no floppy drive, 6 USB 2.0/1.0, 1GB ethernet  
> 
> I ran a Samba server and a backup server on my SOHO LAN using SanDisk 
> Ultra Fit 16 GB USB 3.0 flash drives with ext4 for several years.  I 
> installed Debian just like I would for a HDD or SSD.  The computers 
> worked, and the flash drives did not wear out.  But, they saw light use.

Mine's the Ultra Fit, too, but 32GB. I've done some addtional research,
and it looks like it has wear leveling built in.  Read a SanDisk blurb
that all their solid state devices have it by default.  In any case, the
NAS software I'll be using (OpenMediaVault) has a specific plugin for
solid state to reduce write wear to a minimum.

> 
> I used a 2015 MacBook Pro 15 with VirtualBox and a Debian desktop as a 
> [snip]
> 
> 
> If I wanted to use a USB flash drive as a Debian system drive again, I 
> would probably just go with an Ultra Fit 16 GB and ext4.  They are 
> inexpensive; and if they fail too often, I would try a high endurance SD 
> card and USB adapter.

My plan is after the OS install and configuring to just clone the drive
for a quick reinstall, if or when it's needed.

> 
> Tuning the system to minimize flash drive writes sounds appealing, but I 
> never had much success at it.  Mounting the root filesystem with 
> 'relatime' or 'noatime' options sounds like a good way to break things, 
> and I'm not going to audit an entire Debian system to figure it out.  I 
> tried running without swap -- that is a good way to crash your systems. 
> I have not tried alternate filesystems, because I want to be able to 
> boot a standard Debian Installer and run the rescue console when needed 
> (thus precluding ZFS, which I really want).  One trick I have not tried 
> is a USB disk on module.  Eventually SSD's became cheap enough that I 
> replaced all of the USB flash drives, so I have not pursued this.

I'll use "relatime" instead of "noatime." "Relatime" is said to
create less problems with software that needs dates/times when files,
etc. were last modified, accessed, etc.

My systems rarely use swap, and when they does it's only a few
kilobytes. My main 1-year old under-the-desk box with 16GB RAM has
yet to use any.

I won't be using ZFS because of its propensity for lots of RAM. The old
box I'm using for this project has only 8GB of DDR2, and I don't plan
to expand that. OpenMediaVault, to its credit, is very lightweight and
RAM efficient. Perfect for the home NAS on an old system.

Thanks for your input.

B

Homebuilt NAS: System Drive Filesystem?

[Patrick Bartek]

Hi! All:

For my Homebuilt NAS [specs below], I've decided on a very small 32GB
SanDisk flash drive for the system drive to keep the 6 available SATA
II connectors free for storage drives. But I'm concerned about writes
wearing out the flash drive too soon. I don't know if it has wear
leveling built in.  Nothing in the specs about it. So, worse case, I'll
assume it doesn't.

For that reason, I thought EXT4 without journaling would work well.  No
journaling -- issues that causes aside -- would reduce writes a lot.
Then I came across F2FS which I hadn't heard of.  After some reading,
it seems the perfect filesystem for my purposes: It's more "modern" and
faster than EXT4, designed specifically for solid state devices, and
available in the Debian Repo. (I plan to use OpenMediaVault NAS
software which is Debian based.)

Opinions?  Suggestions?  Recommendations?

Thanks


B

THE BOX: ASRock 770DE+ BIOS/MBR Only MB (EFI/GPT Not Supported), AMD
Phenom II X4 CPU at 3.0GHz, 8GB DDR2 RAM (16GB Max), 6 SATA II, 1 IDE
(Master and Slave) -- IDE DVD Writer on Master, 1 Floppy connector, but
no floppy drive, 6 USB 2.0/1.0, 1GB ethernet

Re: dns cache for localdomain via djbdns

[Patrick Frank]

On 12.08.20 15:28, Dan Ritter wrote:

Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 02:59:23PM +0200, Patrick Frank wrote:



Greg writes: You can execute the "./run" script by hand for testing
purposes [...]

When I tried "exec envuidgid Gnscache ..." it logged me out.


Greg writes: unicorn:~$ ls -l /etc/dnscache/

This directory is missing the "supervise" directory.


Dan writes: svc -d /service/dnscache

It outputs: unable to control /service/dnscache: file does not exist


P.

dns cache for localdomain via djbdns

[Patrick Frank]

Hello,

on a Debian 10 host I created a virtual machine with very basic features
to build a dns cache for my home network with djbdns. I fail to understand
how Daemontools are used properly.

Following the instructions on http://cr.yp.to/djbdns/install.html went okay.
http://cr.yp.to/djbdns/run-cache-x.html at step 5 is where I am stuck.

When I go to /service/dnscache and execute "run" it says "starting" so I
try svstat /service/dnscache which outputs:
"/service/dnscache: unable to open supervise/ok: file does not exist"

Any hints, please?

P.

Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice

[Patrick Bartek]

On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 16:14:46 +0100
Jonathan Dowland  wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 12:40:03PM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> >Anyone currently using OpenMediaVault, or have recommendations for
> >another package, or advice, in general, on homebuilt NAS?  
> 
> My advice is to keep it boring and mundane, and avoid the temptation
> to try some flashy technology Just Because. (I put ZFS in that category,
> personally; and BTRFS). My NAS runs stock Debian and I've documented it
> here: <https://jmtd.net/hardware/phobos/>

With anything new I attempt, I always KISS.  Why create problems?
Since the box will be mainly storage -- backups, files, etc. -- I'm
just going to stick with the old, tried and true ext4.  For my
purposes, ZFS is not needed even though it has advantages.  I'm
starting with one data drive and adding drives as needed. As I'm
not a hoarder, or music or movie fanatic, don't run my own web site or
email server, it will take a long time to fill that first drive, if
ever. Probably will never use RAID. Don't need the speed of striping. Or
parity. Everything on the box will have a copy somewhere else. And I'll
be the only one accessing it.

Can't think of any other ways to keep it more boring and mudane.

Thanks for your recommendations.

B

Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 18:39:49 -0500
Leslie Rhorer  wrote:

>   I don't think SyncThing is what you want, per your stated requirements. 
>   SyncThing synchronizes data among multiple hosts.  You said you wanted 
> a NAS, which implies a solitary host.

After a little purusing of the docs on SyncThing, I agree.  It's more of
a personal Dropbox for your devices.  Not what I was looking for.
Besides most NAS software have "Dropbox-like" plugins, if such a
feature is needed.

Thanks for your feedback.

B

> On 7/30/2020 4:28 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 09:40:29 -0700
> > Peter Ehlert  wrote:
> >   
> >> This whole conversation is a bit over my head.
> >> I suggest you look into Syncthing.
> >>
> >> It's not in the Debian repos, but it is open source and it just works.
> >> https://syncthing.net/
> >>
> >> It works for me, 750 GB, 7 machines.  
> > 
> > Thanks. I'll look into it.
> > 
> > B
> >   
> >> On 7/29/20 12:40 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote:  
> >>> Hi! all,
> >>>
> >>> Thought putting an old, retired system to good use would be better than
> >>> letting it gather dust in a closet.  And by old, I mean OLD! I
> >>> built it 13 years ago.  However, it's been upgraded many times since,
> >>> and was still my main box running Stretch until last year. Its current
> >>> specs: ASRock A770DE+ AM3 MB, AMD Phenom II x4 @ 3.0 GHZ, 8GB DDR2 RAM
> >>> (max 16GB), 6 - SATA II & 1 - IDE connections, USB2.0.
> >>>
> >>> The problem I've run into is finding a NAS OS to run on it.  They all
> >>> seem to require UEFI. which this MB does not support.  (I said it was
> >>> old.)  However, in my search I did come across OpenMediaVault which is
> >>> a simple, lightweight NAS OS based on Debian Jessie that will work with
> >>> either MBR or UEFI.  One nice feature OMV has is it can be installed as
> >>> a service on top of any Debian OS.  So, I can use something more
> >>> contemporary and still supported.
> >>>
> >>> Anyone currently using OpenMediaVault, or have recommendations for
> >>> another package, or advice, in general, on homebuilt NAS?
> >>>
> >>> My plan is to use it for backups, Dropbox-like storage, and possibly
> >>> home media server.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>>
> >>> B
> >>>
> >>> 
> >>  
> 

Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice

[Patrick Bartek]

On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 21:27:03 +0200
"Torben Schou Jensen"  wrote:

> Instead of using old hardware, another solution could be to invest in a
> small Raspberry Pi and a USB disk.
> 
> A year back I created such a NAS solution.
> Raspberry Pi3 + 1 TB USB disk
> 
> Raspberry Pi OS is based on Debian.
> 
> Filesharing by NFS.
> 
> I use it as backup media for my servers.
> Very cheap to buy, and it all use very little power.

Thanks for the suggestion.  I might have future use for something like
that, but for now I plan to put to good use parts I have laying around
doing nothing. I'm a "Waste Not, Want Not" type of person.

B

Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice

[Patrick Bartek]

On Wed, 29 Jul 2020 18:41:46 -0500
Leslie Rhorer  wrote:

>   I run a pair of Debian servers.  One is essentially a NAS, and the 
> other is a backup system.  Both have 30TB (soon to be 48TB) arrays.  I 
> am running XFS, rather than ZFS on the RAID arrays.  ZFS is definitely 
> nice, but is not supported directly under Debian.  I don't find the 
> comparative deficencies of XFS vs. ZFS to be an issue.  If these were 
> enterprise systems, I probably would go with ZFS, directly supported or 
> not.  As it is, these systems work just fine for me, and have for well 
> over a decade.  Here is my layout for my main system:
> 
> /dev/md1:
> [BIG snip]

Thanks for the recommendations and set up details.

B

Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice

[Patrick Bartek]

On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 09:40:29 -0700
Peter Ehlert  wrote:

> This whole conversation is a bit over my head.
> I suggest you look into Syncthing.
> 
> It's not in the Debian repos, but it is open source and it just works.
> https://syncthing.net/
> 
> It works for me, 750 GB, 7 machines.

Thanks. I'll look into it.

B

> On 7/29/20 12:40 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > Hi! all,
> >
> > Thought putting an old, retired system to good use would be better than
> > letting it gather dust in a closet.  And by old, I mean OLD! I
> > built it 13 years ago.  However, it's been upgraded many times since,
> > and was still my main box running Stretch until last year. Its current
> > specs: ASRock A770DE+ AM3 MB, AMD Phenom II x4 @ 3.0 GHZ, 8GB DDR2 RAM
> > (max 16GB), 6 - SATA II & 1 - IDE connections, USB2.0.
> >
> > The problem I've run into is finding a NAS OS to run on it.  They all
> > seem to require UEFI. which this MB does not support.  (I said it was
> > old.)  However, in my search I did come across OpenMediaVault which is
> > a simple, lightweight NAS OS based on Debian Jessie that will work with
> > either MBR or UEFI.  One nice feature OMV has is it can be installed as
> > a service on top of any Debian OS.  So, I can use something more
> > contemporary and still supported.
> >
> > Anyone currently using OpenMediaVault, or have recommendations for
> > another package, or advice, in general, on homebuilt NAS?
> >
> > My plan is to use it for backups, Dropbox-like storage, and possibly
> > home media server.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > B
> >
> >  
> 

Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice

[Patrick Bartek]

On Wed, 29 Jul 2020 16:09:51 -0400
Dan Ritter  wrote:

> Patrick Bartek wrote: 
> > Hi! all,
> > 
> > Thought putting an old, retired system to good use would be better than
> > letting it gather dust in a closet.  And by old, I mean OLD! I
> > built it 13 years ago.  However, it's been upgraded many times since,
> > and was still my main box running Stretch until last year. Its current
> > specs: ASRock A770DE+ AM3 MB, AMD Phenom II x4 @ 3.0 GHZ, 8GB DDR2 RAM
> > (max 16GB), 6 - SATA II & 1 - IDE connections, USB2.0.
> > 
> > The problem I've run into is finding a NAS OS to run on it.  They all
> > seem to require UEFI. which this MB does not support.  (I said it was
> > old.)  However, in my search I did come across OpenMediaVault which is
> > a simple, lightweight NAS OS based on Debian Jessie that will work with
> > either MBR or UEFI.  One nice feature OMV has is it can be installed as
> > a service on top of any Debian OS.  So, I can use something more
> > contemporary and still supported.
> > 
> > Anyone currently using OpenMediaVault, or have recommendations for
> > another package, or advice, in general, on homebuilt NAS?  
> 
> Debian with ZFS.

I don't think OpenMediaVault (or Debian, for that matter) supports zfs
on the initial install. OMV specifies ext3/ext4/xfs/jfs support "out of
the box." However, I would think I could use zfs (just install it from
Debian repo) for the storage drives after the OS is installed, but I
haven't finished reading the user manual, so I could be wrong.

> Not "built on two-releases-ago Debian". Current, stable Debian.

That Jessie statement was from the FAQs in the user manual.  So, it
could be that it hasn't been updated.  However, it says also you can
upgrade the kernel from backports. Plus, you can install OMV on top of
any Debian install, if needed.  I'll do a trial install of the default
software and see what I get.

> I recommend making sure you have a new power supply and a UPS,
> too. Cyberpower makes decent ones for reasonable prices and nut
> supports them.

A UPS I have. And it's relatively new.  The current power supply is
only a couple years old. Like I said: the box has been upgraded a lot
from its original build. But thanks for the advice.  Hadn't even thought
about those.

> Maxing out the RAM will probably only cost $10 or so, if
> you can find the person in your city who hoards old RAM.

Took a quick look on eBay: I'd need 4 4GB DDR2 DIMMs (have 4
2GB ones installed now). $40 or so average.  But I'll start with the 8
since that's well above OMV's recommended minimum of 1GB.

> nut - UPS management
> samba - if you need to share files with Windows
> netatalk - if you need to share files with Mac OS, or be a TimeMachine
> mythtv or gerbera or kodi - home theater operations
> forked-daapd - music server (has web client, speaks ITunes and
>  MPD and Chromecast)

Thanks for info.  Hadn't gotten that far as to what I would want or
need after the initial setup.  Get it working first, then worry about
the details. ;)

> Having any web server set up to serve a directory tree is
> generally useful.

I'm still not sure exactly what I want out of the box, but you've given
a few things to consider.  Thanks.

B

Homebuilt NAS Advice

[Patrick Bartek]

Hi! all,

Thought putting an old, retired system to good use would be better than
letting it gather dust in a closet.  And by old, I mean OLD! I
built it 13 years ago.  However, it's been upgraded many times since,
and was still my main box running Stretch until last year. Its current
specs: ASRock A770DE+ AM3 MB, AMD Phenom II x4 @ 3.0 GHZ, 8GB DDR2 RAM
(max 16GB), 6 - SATA II & 1 - IDE connections, USB2.0.

The problem I've run into is finding a NAS OS to run on it.  They all
seem to require UEFI. which this MB does not support.  (I said it was
old.)  However, in my search I did come across OpenMediaVault which is
a simple, lightweight NAS OS based on Debian Jessie that will work with
either MBR or UEFI.  One nice feature OMV has is it can be installed as
a service on top of any Debian OS.  So, I can use something more
contemporary and still supported.

Anyone currently using OpenMediaVault, or have recommendations for
another package, or advice, in general, on homebuilt NAS?

My plan is to use it for backups, Dropbox-like storage, and possibly
home media server.

Thanks

B

Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 28 Jun 2020 08:21:29 -0500
Richard Owlett  wrote:

> The default install of the MATE desktop installs too much I don't want.
> Unfortunately the Debian installer does not allow coerces the 
> installation of "recommended" packages.
> 
> Therefore I did an install without *ANY* desktop environment.
> [Used DVD1 of Debian 8.6, latest for which I had a physical DVD]
> 
> I then did
> apt-get --no-install-recommends install mate-desktop-environment gparted
> 
> On reboot the desktop did not appear.
> 
> What is the forgotten command to automatically launch the desktop at boot?
> 
> TIA

Did you install the X server and its depends? Did you manually run
startx? I assume you boot to a terminal and log-in there.

B

Re: xfce not controlling desktop

[Patrick Wiseman]

On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 3:42 PM Dan Ritter  wrote:

> Patrick Wiseman wrote:
> > Hello, all:
> >
> > Since a recent upgrade of my testing system to debian 10, xfce no longer
> > controls the desktop, so no background image, no right-click to bring up
> > the menu, etc. Top and bottom panels works as they always have. Any
> > thoughts?
> >
>
> Sounds like xfdesktop is not running. Run it by hand; if that
> works, then go over to the control panel and make sure it gets
> started automatically.
>
> -dsr-
>

Thank you! That was indeed the problem.

Patrick

xfce not controlling desktop

[Patrick Wiseman]

Hello, all:

Since a recent upgrade of my testing system to debian 10, xfce no longer
controls the desktop, so no background image, no right-click to bring up
the menu, etc. Top and bottom panels works as they always have. Any
thoughts?

Hope you're all staying safe and well
Cheers
Patrick

Kazam 1.5.x - anyone successfully installed?

[Patrick Wiseman]

Hello, fellow users of Debian:

Kazam is a screencasting tool much recommended. Debian has version 1.4.5,
but it lacks webcam support, which is available in the 1.5.x version. I
have the source code for version 1.5.4 (acquired by running 'bzr branch
lp:kazam/unstable' which returns the latest version; bzr is part of a
software maintenance system available in Debian in the brz package - yes,
brz not bzr).

When I try to run kazam locally, after a couple of spurious errors, I get
this traceback:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./kazam", line 147, in 
from kazam.app import KazamApp
  File "../kazam/app.py", line 36, in 
from kazam.backend.prefs import *
  File "../kazam/backend/prefs.py", line 587, in 
prefs = Prefs()
  File "../kazam/backend/prefs.py", line 147, in __init__
self.config = KazamConfig()
  File "../kazam/backend/config.py", line 89, in __init__
ConfigParser.__init__(self, self.DEFAULTS[0]['keys'])
  File "/usr/lib/python3.8/configparser.py", line 639, in __init__
self._read_defaults(defaults)
  File "/usr/lib/python3.8/configparser.py", line 1219, in _read_defaults
self.read_dict({self.default_section: defaults})
  File "/usr/lib/python3.8/configparser.py", line 754, in read_dict
self.set(section, key, value)
  File "../kazam/backend/config.py", line 151, in set
self.add_section(section)
  File "/usr/lib/python3.8/configparser.py", line 1208, in add_section
super().add_section(section)
  File "/usr/lib/python3.8/configparser.py", line 656, in add_section
raise ValueError('Invalid section name: %r' % section)
ValueError: Invalid section name: 'DEFAULT'

I'm not a python programmer, so I'm not sure what to do next. If anyone has
solved the issue or can give me some advice I'd be grateful. (The solutions
offered in several places after a Google search have not worked, and are
addressed to a similar problem people were having with 1.4.5.)

Thanks and please stay safe
Patrick

Re: Smallest Usable EFI Partition?

[Patrick Bartek]

On Wed, 13 May 2020 07:38:00 +0200
Sven Hartge  wrote:

> Rick Thomas  wrote:
> > On Tue, May 12, 2020, at 3:37 PM, Andrea Borgia wrote:  
> >> Il 13/05/20 00:21, Patrick Bartek ha scritto:  
> 
> >> > I can't find anything definitive on this question.  Some say, 100MB
> >> > is fine; others 215 or 550 is a safe choice.  It all seems to be
> >> > just opinions.  
> 
> >> I had the same doubts about a year ago and went with the
> >> recommendation of a larger partition, about 500MB... of which only 6%
> >> is used.  My office laptop with Windows10 has something in the region
> >> of 100MB but it is not dualboot.  Debian uses about 6MB, MS about
> >> 26MB, plus a couple of megs for boot.  If space is really tight you
> >> might want to stick with 100MB in total.  
> 
> > One thing to keep in mind is that, when the contents are being
> > updated, the EFI partition and the /boot partition if you have one,
> > will need space for two (or even more) copies of stuff.  So don't be
> > too stingy!  
> 
> Also Firmware/BIOS update are often put onto there nowadays to be
> installed on next reboot.

Aren't such updates stored still in /boot?  Or has that changed with
efi?

B

Re: Smallest Usable EFI Partition?

[Patrick Bartek]

On Wed, 13 May 2020 09:16:33 +0200
Andrea Borgia  wrote:

> Update:older laptop had 100MB, the current one apparently has more than
> 500MB but I am not sure whether that holds the recovery image as well or
> not.
> 
> Anyhow, the caveat for multiple copies is valid for /boot, where kernels
> live. AFAIK, /boot/EFI is fairly constant in space utilization... I have
> only that as a separate partition, though, the rest of /boot lives in the
> main partition.

Thanks for the info.  I don't intend to have a separate /boot
partiion.  Wastes too much space.

B

> 
> Il giorno mer 13 mag 2020 alle ore 02:36 Rick Thomas 
> ha scritto:
> 
> > On Tue, May 12, 2020, at 3:37 PM, Andrea Borgia wrote:  
> > > Il 13/05/20 00:21, Patrick Bartek ha scritto:  
> > > > I can't find anything definitive on this question.  Some say, 100MB is
> > > > fine; others 215 or 550 is a safe choice.  It all seems to be just
> > > > opinions.  
> > > I had the same doubts about a year ago and went with the recommendation
> > > of a larger partition, about 500MB... of which only 6% is used.
> > > My office laptop with Windows10 has something in the region of 100MB but
> > > it is not dualboot.
> > > Debian uses about 6MB, MS about 26MB, plus a couple of megs for boot.
> > > If space is really tight you might want to stick with 100MB in total.  
> >
> > One thing to keep in mind is that, when the contents are being updated,
> > the EFI partition and the /boot partition if you have one, will need space
> > for two (or even more) copies of stuff.  So don't be too stingy!
> >
> > Stay well, stay safe!
> > Rick
> >
> >