Re: Different font rendering in Iceweasel and Google Chrome
On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 12:58:50PM EST, Matteo Riva wrote: Fresh squeeze install, I have this very annoying change in font rendering in Iceweasel -- specifically what looks ugly is Verdana 10pt, it just got little bigger than my old testing install (not updated for since september I think). Screenshot of the difference: http://fruple.com/kemper/font_sizes.png This does not look like Verdana. Not sure if it's relevant to the size issue, but are you sure some other font is not being served in lieu of Verdana? CJ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Different font rendering in Iceweasel and Google Chrome
Quoting Chris Jones: On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 12:58:50PM EST, Matteo Riva wrote: Fresh squeeze install, I have this very annoying change in font rendering in Iceweasel -- specifically what looks ugly is Verdana 10pt, it just got little bigger than my old testing install (not updated for since september I think). Screenshot of the difference: http://fruple.com/kemper/font_sizes.png This does not look like Verdana. Not sure if it's relevant to the size issue, but are you sure some other font is not being served in lieu of Verdana? I don't know, it looks like verdana to me, but the main point is that a 9pt and 11pt they display as expected and there are no differences between the two browsers. Also, the same problem at 10pt happens with other fonts. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Different font rendering in Iceweasel and Google Chrome
Quoting Camaleón: - What are your fonts settings in Iceweasel? Here is what I have: *** Occidental (iso-8859-1) Proportional font: San serif Serif: Times News Roman / point: 16 Sans-serif: Arial Monospace: Courier-new / point: 13 Smallest font size: none [x] Allow pages to select their own font face, instead the above selection Well this last line is all that's needed, style sheets will override whatever font I pick. BTW, you can make some checks between Chrome and Iceweasel by browsing through these pages: http://fm.no-ip.com/auth/Font/font-arial.html http://fm.no-ip.com/auth/Font/font-tahoma.html http://fm.no-ip.com/auth/Font/font-verdana.html Thanks for the links, hadn't thought of doing that comparison, here is what I get: http://fruple.com/kemper/font_sizes2.png Seems like Iceweasel has some issues with font sizes, chrome's progression is clearly more linear while iceweasel has some spikes: 7pt is much bigger than 6, while being almost equal to 8. Same thing at 9/10/11 points. Should I file this as a bug? And against what package? Iceweasel itself or does it have another package taking care of the font rendering? Thanks -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Different font rendering in Iceweasel and Google Chrome
On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:58:28 +0100, Matteo Riva wrote: Quoting Camaleón: (...) [x] Allow pages to select their own font face, instead the above selection Well this last line is all that's needed, style sheets will override whatever font I pick. Yes. That option checked means the browser should display the fonts as defined by web pages. This is the only way you get what the web designer wants you to get. I know that can be a problem for some people that want to use their own styles, but anyway, is just a matter of taste, has no relevance with your issue. BTW, you can make some checks between Chrome and Iceweasel by browsing through these pages: http://fm.no-ip.com/auth/Font/font-arial.html http://fm.no-ip.com/auth/Font/font-tahoma.html http://fm.no-ip.com/auth/Font/font-verdana.html Thanks for the links, hadn't thought of doing that comparison, here is what I get: http://fruple.com/kemper/font_sizes2.png Chris Jones is right, that not seems to be a Verdana (compare your image with mine) but the fact is the same font (whatever font it is) is displayed bigger than in Chrome. For this reason and in order to get accurate results, just keep the [x] Allow pages to select their own font face, instead the above checked, this way we can see the real Verdana font and if it renders at its right size. Seems like Iceweasel has some issues with font sizes, chrome's progression is clearly more linear while iceweasel has some spikes: 7pt is much bigger than 6, while being almost equal to 8. Same thing at 9/10/11 points. Yes, Chrome's progression is smoother than Iceweasel. Should I file this as a bug? I cannot reproduce it, but I only have Icewasel (3.0.6) and Epiphany installed and both display the same size for all fonts. And against what package? Iceweasel itself or does it have another package taking care of the font rendering? The package should be Iceweasel, yes. But take into account that Chrome uses Wekbit as rendering engine and Iceweasel uses Gecko, that is, two different engines that *may* render things a bit differently. Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Different font rendering in Iceweasel and Google Chrome
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 05:37:23AM EST, Matteo Riva wrote: I don't know, it looks like verdana to me, but the main point is that a 9pt and 11pt they display as expected and there are no differences between the two browsers. Also, the same problem at 10pt happens with other fonts. Understood. But since I don't have a similar testing environment set up here to make comparisons, I thought I'd mention it. Just in case, I run: $ fc-match verdana $ fc-match sans Actually my first reaction to your initial post was thi s: http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/verdana.html But, it looks like I was barking the wrong tree since you later wrote that this affected all .ttf's. One other detail that I found a little odd is that you mention setting the font to 10pt in Iceweasel since Seamonkey's Preferences dialog uses pixels as the font size unit. I guess I should boot into my Squeeze partition and install Iceweasel and see if I understand this better. Although things are likely to be different since I did a dist-upgrade on a lenny clone rather than a fresh install. CJ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Different font rendering in Iceweasel and Google Chrome
Quoting Chris Jones: Actually my first reaction to your initial post was thi s: http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/verdana.html But, it looks like I was barking the wrong tree since you later wrote that this affected all .ttf's. I'm fine with verdana being that different, my only problem is that now it's rendering differently than it used to before my last testing update. One other detail that I found a little odd is that you mention setting the font to 10pt in Iceweasel since Seamonkey's Preferences dialog uses pixels as the font size unit. Ah, well I was just using the CSS way of saying it, as in font-size: 10pt; since browser preferences have no effects on styled web pages (which is where my problem comes up). I guess I should boot into my Squeeze partition and install Iceweasel and see if I understand this better. Although things are likely to be different since I did a dist-upgrade on a lenny clone rather than a fresh install. I have verified this both on a fresh install and on another partition after a dist-upgrade. Anyway I'll link again the screenshot with the differences in font rendering: http://fruple.com/kemper/font_sizes2.png Thanks for your help -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Different font rendering in Iceweasel and Google Chrome
On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 18:58:50 +0100, Matteo Riva wrote: Fresh squeeze install, I have this very annoying change in font rendering in Iceweasel -- specifically what looks ugly is Verdana 10pt, it just got little bigger than my old testing install (not updated for since september I think). Screenshot of the difference: http://fruple.com/kemper/font_sizes.png I see. Yes, it renders bigger than it should be. Iceweasel (3.5.5, but same behavior with 3.0.14) on the left, google chrome on the right: the usual appearence I always had is the one shown now in chrome. Epiphany looks the same as Iceweasel (they use the same engine maybe?). This is driving me crazy, any idea on what caused this? I verified it's not related to a specific profile, as it's the same on a new freshly created user. Does this happens in all applications? I mean, does OOo writer renders verdana 10pt at the right size or also renders it a bit bigger? Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Different font rendering in Iceweasel and Google Chrome
Quoting Camaleón: On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 18:58:50 +0100, Matteo Riva wrote: Fresh squeeze install, I have this very annoying change in font rendering in Iceweasel -- specifically what looks ugly is Verdana 10pt, it just got little bigger than my old testing install (not updated for since september I think). Screenshot of the difference: http://fruple.com/kemper/font_sizes.png I see. Yes, it renders bigger than it should be. Iceweasel (3.5.5, but same behavior with 3.0.14) on the left, google chrome on the right: the usual appearence I always had is the one shown now in chrome. Epiphany looks the same as Iceweasel (they use the same engine maybe?). This is driving me crazy, any idea on what caused this? I verified it's not related to a specific profile, as it's the same on a new freshly created user. Does this happens in all applications? I mean, does OOo writer renders verdana 10pt at the right size or also renders it a bit bigger? Openoffice writer renders Verdana 10 just like Iceweasel (assuming its 10 point size setting is the same as CSS 10pt). So does Abiword, but I'm not sure it's a significant comparison. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Different font rendering in Iceweasel and Google Chrome
On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 20:00:25 +0100, teoss wrote: (...) I verified it's not related to a specific profile, as it's the same on a new freshly created user. Does this happens in all applications? I mean, does OOo writer renders verdana 10pt at the right size or also renders it a bit bigger? Openoffice writer renders Verdana 10 just like Iceweasel (assuming its 10 point size setting is the same as CSS 10pt). So does Abiword, but I'm not sure it's a significant comparison. I asked because if this behavior is reproducible system-wide (that is, if almost any application renders Verdana 10pt a bit bigger than it should) it could be related to your screen dpi size. At least under Lenny (in Gnome desktop) the default dpi was (wrongly) setup at 86 dpi and I had to change it to 96 so all fonts look at their right size. I'm also using TrueType fonts, mostly the MS ones (Arial, Verdana, Tahoma, Courier New...) and now all of them renders okay in *any* program. But I'm not sure if the problem you are facing can be related to this at all :-? Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Different font rendering in Iceweasel and Google Chrome
I asked because if this behavior is reproducible system-wide (that is, if almost any application renders Verdana 10pt a bit bigger than it should) it could be related to your screen dpi size. At least under Lenny (in Gnome desktop) the default dpi was (wrongly) setup at 86 dpi and I had to change it to 96 so all fonts look at their right size. I'm also using TrueType fonts, mostly the MS ones (Arial, Verdana, Tahoma, Courier New...) and now all of them renders okay in *any* program. But I'm not sure if the problem you are facing can be related to this at all :-? That's interesting, although I guess that would be more likely if the prolem was extended to all the fonts, not just one (or a few, I'm only sure about the example I linked) -- anyway how can I set screen DPI? Option in `device` section in xorg.conf seems to have no effect. Thanks a lot for your replies so far -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Different font rendering in Iceweasel and Google Chrome
On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 21:20:10 +0100, Matteo Riva wrote: (...) At least under Lenny (in Gnome desktop) the default dpi was (wrongly) setup at 86 dpi and I had to change it to 96 so all fonts look at their right size. I'm also using TrueType fonts, mostly the MS ones (Arial, Verdana, Tahoma, Courier New...) and now all of them renders okay in *any* program. But I'm not sure if the problem you are facing can be related to this at all :-? That's interesting, although I guess that would be more likely if the prolem was extended to all the fonts, not just one (or a few, I'm only sure about the example I linked) That's an important point. Are all the fonts rendering bigger than they should or just happens with Verdana? If only one font is rendering badly, it is also possible that the file is corrupted in some way. OTOH, are you using TrueType (.ttf) fonts? -- anyway how can I set screen DPI? Option in `device` section in xorg.conf seems to have no effect. Thanks a lot for your replies so far In Gnome, you can right-click on the desktop and select Change desktop background / Fonts tab / Details In KDE, it should be under Control Center (or Systems settins, I dunno the KDE4 way :-P) / Appearance / Fonts. Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Different font rendering in Iceweasel and Google Chrome
Quoting Camaleón: That's an important point. Are all the fonts rendering bigger than they should or just happens with Verdana? If only one font is rendering badly, it is also possible that the file is corrupted in some way. Well, so far I found that the problem happens only with truetype fonts and ONLY at 10pt (tried arial, verdana, tahoma, trebuchet ms) -- they look different on the two browsers. Other font-sizes look the same. -- anyway how can I set screen DPI? Option in `device` section in xorg.conf seems to have no effect. Thanks a lot for your replies so far In Gnome, you can right-click on the desktop and select Change desktop background / Fonts tab / Details Thanks but that seems to have no effect on the browser contents, just changing gnome fonts. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Different font rendering in Iceweasel and Google Chrome
On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 22:47:27 +0100, Matteo Riva wrote: Quoting Camaleón: That's an important point. Are all the fonts rendering bigger than they should or just happens with Verdana? If only one font is rendering badly, it is also possible that the file is corrupted in some way. Well, so far I found that the problem happens only with truetype fonts and ONLY at 10pt (tried arial, verdana, tahoma, trebuchet ms) -- they look different on the two browsers. Other font-sizes look the same. Okay, then. - What are your fonts settings in Iceweasel? Here is what I have: *** Occidental (iso-8859-1) Proportional font: San serif Serif: Times News Roman / point: 16 Sans-serif: Arial Monospace: Courier-new / point: 13 Smallest font size: none [x] Allow pages to select their own font face, instead the above selection *** BTW, you can make some checks between Chrome and Iceweasel by browsing through these pages: http://fm.no-ip.com/auth/Font/font-arial.html http://fm.no-ip.com/auth/Font/font-tahoma.html http://fm.no-ip.com/auth/Font/font-verdana.html Here is a snapshot of how Iceweasel renders Arial and Verdana fonts in my system: http://picpaste.com/arial.png http://picpaste.com/verdana.png Also, print the pages (directly from both, Chrome and Iceweasel) to see if you still see the size difference in the printed page. -- anyway how can I set screen DPI? Option in `device` section in xorg.conf seems to have no effect. Thanks a lot for your replies so far In Gnome, you can right-click on the desktop and select Change desktop background / Fonts tab / Details Thanks but that seems to have no effect on the browser contents, just changing gnome fonts. Let's discard the dpi path, then :-) Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
