Re: getting mail from Exchange/Outlook

[Brad Rogers]

On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 15:22:08 + (UTC)
Curt  wrote:

Hello Curt,

>The recourse to encryption is tempting to the serious-minded; however, I
>fear it just red-flags you for further and more exhaustive study.

If you routinely encrypt everything, there's nothing to red-flag any
particular email.

-- 
 Regards  _
 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"
What will you do when the gas taps turn?
The Gasman Cometh - Crass


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Re: getting mail from Exchange/Outlook

[Curt]

On 2017-09-16, Dan Purgert  wrote:
> Greg Wooledge wrote:
>> On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 11:00:19PM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
>>> I read the "for backup purposes" as being a euphemism, implying that the
>>> second copy was being kept for nefarious purposes, including so that it
>>> could be reviewed (including by third parties) even if the user had
>>> deleted the "visible" copy.
>>
>> Yes, precisely this.  I thought it was blatantly obvious, but as
>> usual the Internet has corrected my assumptions.
>
> Hm, I must've missed that message ...
>
> "Nefarious" or not, anyone worth their salt has backups of their mail
> (be it corporate IT / an ISP / google / whoever), since things fail at
> times.  Hell, I have "dead-tree-backups(tm)" of emails from previous
> employers asking for stupid things that'd break best practices / etc.
>

I would not wish my ISP to retain a backup for some ulterior purpose of
the private emails that I have expressly deleted.

YMMV.

The recourse to encryption is tempting to the serious-minded; however, I
fear it just red-flags you for further and more exhaustive study.


-- 
"Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana." Groucho

Re: getting mail from Exchange/Outlook

[Dan Purgert]

Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 11:00:19PM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
>> I read the "for backup purposes" as being a euphemism, implying that the
>> second copy was being kept for nefarious purposes, including so that it
>> could be reviewed (including by third parties) even if the user had
>> deleted the "visible" copy.
>
> Yes, precisely this.  I thought it was blatantly obvious, but as
> usual the Internet has corrected my assumptions.

Hm, I must've missed that message ...

"Nefarious" or not, anyone worth their salt has backups of their mail
(be it corporate IT / an ISP / google / whoever), since things fail at
times.  Hell, I have "dead-tree-backups(tm)" of emails from previous
employers asking for stupid things that'd break best practices / etc.

-- 
|_|O|_| Registered Linux user #585947
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

OT: Crossing toll bridges (was Re: getting mail from Exchange/Outlook)

[rhkramer]

On Thursday, September 14, 2017 09:23:32 PM David Wright wrote:
> On Thu 14 Sep 2017 at 12:36:12 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Thursday 14 September 2017 11:55:34 Reco wrote:
> > > On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 10:19:45AM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > > > Do you have a similar
> > > > strategy for crossing toll bridges? Like climbing the piers and then
> > > > sprinting across, so avoiding the approaches where those pesky toll
> > > > booths are located.

Well, the toll bridges near my area in Pennsylvania (USA) to New Jersey are 
interesting.  They are free to cross in the direction to New Jersey, but you 
have to pay to get out of New Jersey.

I sometimes wonder if TPTB realized that many people would be happy enough to 
leave New Jersey that they wouldn't mind paying.

(Aside (OT to an OT?): Also, there is one free bridge in the area, that is 
harder to get to, due both to the route and the traffic, but sometimes I use 
it.)

Re: getting mail from Exchange/Outlook

[Greg Wooledge]

On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 11:00:19PM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
> I read the "for backup purposes" as being a euphemism, implying that the
> second copy was being kept for nefarious purposes, including so that it
> could be reviewed (including by third parties) even if the user had
> deleted the "visible" copy.

Yes, precisely this.  I thought it was blatantly obvious, but as
usual the Internet has corrected my assumptions.

Re: getting mail from Exchange/Outlook

[The Wanderer]

On 2017-09-14 at 12:34, David Wright wrote:

> On Thu 14 Sep 2017 at 19:25:15 (+0300), Reco wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 11:15:17AM -0500, David Wright wrote:
>> 
>>> On Thu 14 Sep 2017 at 18:55:34 (+0300), Reco wrote:
> 
 It's very easy to setup mail delivery in such way that every
 e-mail is stored in two different places, first one for the
 users' IMAP, and second one is for … backup purposes, so to
 speak.
>>> 
>>> What, by emailing it somewhere else?
>> 
>> Nah, by setting up MDA in such a way that every user has two
>> mailboxes. Only one of them is exposed to the user via POP or
>> IMAP. hardlinking files in maildir also does the trick.
> 
> Oh, I misunderstood you. For me, that's not a backup. A hardlink is
> in the same filesystem; I'm talking at least a different box. My mail
> server happens to be on a different continent.

I read the "for backup purposes" as being a euphemism, implying that the
second copy was being kept for nefarious purposes, including so that it
could be reviewed (including by third parties) even if the user had
deleted the "visible" copy.

(Also, I have entire rants about how *anything that you can fall back to
if the main instance fails*, no matter how limited the circumstances in
which you can do so are, qualifies for the literal meaning of the noun
"backup"; the insistence that, e.g., "RAID is not backup" - while
certainly based on good advice from a practical perspective - rubs me
the wrong way linguistically, and your "that's not a backup" does the
same thing to a lesser extent. But exploring that further would be a
wildly different topic.)

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



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Re: getting mail from Exchange/Outlook

[Richard Hector]

On 14/09/17 07:32, Steve Kleene wrote:
> My employer is forcing me to shut down my long-time Linux mail server.  I
> have no choice in the matter.
> 
> My employer uses Microsoft Exchange/Outlook for mail.  They have an Outlook
> Web App (OWA) that I can access from Firefox, but as far as I can tell you
> cannot save a file to the local disk with OWA.  That makes OWA pretty
> useless.  The documentation, if it can be believed, says that I can access
> Outlook with POP3 and IMAP4 programs including Thunderbird.
> 
> If any of you have experience and/or advice with this problem, I'd be
> grateful to hear it.
> 

I don't remember the details, but at my former employer I switched from
Thunderbird (or icedove) to Evolution, which managed to talk to Exchange
(possibly Office 365?) in a more native manner.

Richard



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Re: getting mail from Exchange/Outlook

[David Wright]

On Thu 14 Sep 2017 at 12:36:12 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Thursday 14 September 2017 11:55:34 Reco wrote:
> 
> > Hi.
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 10:19:45AM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > > On Thu 14 Sep 2017 at 10:51:43 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > Begin rant:
> > >
> > > [...]
> > >
> > > > Since they without doubt have a backdoor for the snooping
> > > > agencies, this exposes my mail to these people for 1000's of times
> > > > longer (If I do it once a week for instance) compared to fetchmail
> > > > pulling and deleting it every 3 minutes.
> > >
> > > Oh, I see. So if you can just get your emails in and out of the
> > > ISP's system within three minutes, this will catch the snoopers
> > > napping/ on coffee break/gossiping round the water cooler/however
> > > the agency's monitors take their breaks. Do you have a similar
> > > strategy for crossing toll bridges? Like climbing the piers and then
> > > sprinting across, so avoiding the approaches where those pesky toll
> > > booths are located.
> >
> > While it's a legitimate point, the better one would be the following:
> >
> > How can you be sure that deleting mail at your ISP server actually
> > deletes it?
> >
> > It's very easy to setup mail delivery in such way that every e-mail is
> > stored in two different places, first one for the users' IMAP, and
> > second one is for … backup purposes, so to speak.
> >
> > Reco
> 
> Given todays $50/terrabyte of storage, it sure isn't the resource problem 
> it was 10 years ago. So I'd expect its being done.  Scary ain't it.

I didn't think this thread was about resources, but mechanism of
delivery and the issue of colocation of backups. Moving emails
from a remote server to home and immediately deleting them on the
server means that you now have a single point of failure. That's
why I asked whether it's simple to deliver to two unrelated places
at once before deleting the server's copy. I don't know how to do
this, nor think it's necessarily going to be simple.

Cheers,
David.

Re: getting mail from Exchange/Outlook

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 14 September 2017 12:02:31 John Hasler wrote:

> Gene writes:
> > I have, live, a 5 machine home network here, and IMO here is where
> > imap belongs, so I could do my email from any of these machines by
> > pulling from their server with fetchmail, and making it available to
> > any of these machines by imaping it. But I have been told,
> > repeatedly, that such an interfaceing between the maildir/mailfile
> > filtered incoming pop3'd messages database that kmail maintains and
> > a dovecot local server working from that email corpus is not
> > possible.
>
> Why do you want to involve kmail at that level?  Have fetchmail
> deliver to dovecot, either directly or after filtering by mailagent,
> procmail, or similar.  Dovecot should also be able to run
> spamassassin.  If it can't, use exim4.

I've no experience, even reading about it on these various lists.  How 
hard is it to setup?

I have been tempted to add a new drive, mounted at ~/mymail, and just 
copy the while ~/Mail tree to it just so I can do a full new jessie or 
maybe even stretch install w/o losing a several gigabyte email corpus.

exim4's man page is scary, its a swiss army knife.

I have to go get a tooth pulled, I'm outta here for the day.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: getting mail from Exchange/Outlook

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 14 September 2017 11:55:34 Reco wrote:

>   Hi.
>
> On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 10:19:45AM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > On Thu 14 Sep 2017 at 10:51:43 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > Begin rant:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > > Since they without doubt have a backdoor for the snooping
> > > agencies, this exposes my mail to these people for 1000's of times
> > > longer (If I do it once a week for instance) compared to fetchmail
> > > pulling and deleting it every 3 minutes.
> >
> > Oh, I see. So if you can just get your emails in and out of the
> > ISP's system within three minutes, this will catch the snoopers
> > napping/ on coffee break/gossiping round the water cooler/however
> > the agency's monitors take their breaks. Do you have a similar
> > strategy for crossing toll bridges? Like climbing the piers and then
> > sprinting across, so avoiding the approaches where those pesky toll
> > booths are located.
>
> While it's a legitimate point, the better one would be the following:
>
> How can you be sure that deleting mail at your ISP server actually
> deletes it?
>
> It's very easy to setup mail delivery in such way that every e-mail is
> stored in two different places, first one for the users' IMAP, and
> second one is for … backup purposes, so to speak.
>
> Reco

Given todays $50/terrabyte of storage, it sure isn't the resource problem 
it was 10 years ago. So I'd expect its being done.  Scary ain't it.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: getting mail from Exchange/Outlook

[David Wright]

On Thu 14 Sep 2017 at 19:25:15 (+0300), Reco wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 11:15:17AM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > On Thu 14 Sep 2017 at 18:55:34 (+0300), Reco wrote:

> > > It's very easy to setup mail delivery in such way that every e-mail is
> > > stored in two different places, first one for the users' IMAP, and
> > > second one is for … backup purposes, so to speak.
> > 
> > What, by emailing it somewhere else?
> 
> Nah, by setting up MDA in such a way that every user has two mailboxes.
> Only one of them is exposed to the user via POP or IMAP.
> hardlinking files in maildir also does the trick.

Oh, I misunderstood you. For me, that's not a backup. A hardlink is
in the same filesystem; I'm talking at least a different box. My
mail server happens to be on a different continent.

Cheers,
David.

Re: getting mail from Exchange/Outlook

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 14 September 2017 11:19:45 David Wright wrote:

> On Thu 14 Sep 2017 at 10:51:43 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Begin rant:
>
> [...]
>
> > Since they without doubt have a backdoor for the snooping agencies,
> > this exposes my mail to these people for 1000's of times longer (If
> > I do it once a week for instance) compared to fetchmail pulling and
> > deleting it every 3 minutes.
>
> Oh, I see. So if you can just get your emails in and out of the ISP's
> system within three minutes, this will catch the snoopers napping/
> on coffee break/gossiping round the water cooler/however the
> agency's monitors take their breaks. Do you have a similar strategy
> for crossing toll bridges? Like climbing the piers and then sprinting
> across, so avoiding the approaches where those pesky toll booths
> are located.
>
> Cheers,
> David.

Well, truth be known, they probably have their own copy squirreled away 
for later perusal 10 milliseconds after it hit a transport medium 
anyplace.  They don't like people using sigs like mine.

But the reduced time exposed on the isp's servers makes me feel better 
anyway. :)

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: getting mail from Exchange/Outlook

[Reco]

On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 11:15:17AM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> On Thu 14 Sep 2017 at 18:55:34 (+0300), Reco wrote:
> > Hi.
> > 
> > On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 10:19:45AM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > > On Thu 14 Sep 2017 at 10:51:43 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > Begin rant:
> > > [...]
> > > > Since they without doubt have a backdoor for the snooping agencies, 
> > > > this 
> > > > exposes my mail to these people for 1000's of times longer (If I do it 
> > > > once a week for instance) compared to fetchmail pulling and deleting it 
> > > > every 3 minutes.
> > > 
> > > Oh, I see. So if you can just get your emails in and out of the ISP's
> > > system within three minutes, this will catch the snoopers napping/
> > > on coffee break/gossiping round the water cooler/however the
> > > agency's monitors take their breaks. Do you have a similar strategy
> > > for crossing toll bridges? Like climbing the piers and then sprinting
> > > across, so avoiding the approaches where those pesky toll booths
> > > are located.
> > 
> > While it's a legitimate point, the better one would be the following:
> > 
> > How can you be sure that deleting mail at your ISP server actually
> > deletes it?
> 
> If the agencies are going to snoop at the obvious point, the point of
> entry to the ISP, then it makes no difference how long the ISP keeps
> information after you think it's been deleted. (Once you've paid the
> toll, it doesn't matter to them whether you sprint to the other side
> of the bridge or push a pea across it with your nose: they've already
> got your money.)

True. But it's more convenient to 'persuade' ISP to store e-mails for
them. This way ISP filters spam, not the man-in-the-middle.
Saves taxpayer money by reducing storage costs and all such.


> > It's very easy to setup mail delivery in such way that every e-mail is
> > stored in two different places, first one for the users' IMAP, and
> > second one is for … backup purposes, so to speak.
> 
> What, by emailing it somewhere else?

Nah, by setting up MDA in such a way that every user has two mailboxes.
Only one of them is exposed to the user via POP or IMAP.
hardlinking files in maildir also does the trick.

Reco

Re: getting mail from Exchange/Outlook

[Joe]

On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 07:38:57 -0400
rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Thursday, September 14, 2017 03:56:38 AM to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 03:32:33PM -0400, Steve Kleene wrote:  
> > > My employer is forcing me to shut down my long-time Linux mail
> > > server.  I have no choice in the matter.
> > > 
> > > My employer uses Microsoft Exchange/Outlook for mail.  They have
> > > an Outlook Web App (OWA) that I can access from Firefox, but as
> > > far as I can tell you cannot save a file to the local disk with
> > > OWA.  That makes OWA pretty useless.  The documentation, if it
> > > can be believed, says that I can access Outlook with POP3 and
> > > IMAP4 programs including Thunderbird.  
> > 
> > As others have said, IMAP is the best path (if the Exchannge server
> > is set up for it).  
> 
> I'm sort of moving OT, but want to ask: presumably you think IMAP is 
> preferable to POP3--what makes you say that (in general)?
> 
> It's been a long time since i chose to use pop3 instead of imap--in
> fact, iirc, imap became an option later, and my decision was more
> whether to stick with pop3 or switch to imap.
> 
> I prefer pop3 because it (in most cases, unless set otherwise or
> dealing with gmail) deletes the email from the email server, which is
> what I prefer.
> 
> I presume imap gives you an option to delete mail from the server?

Yes, there's quite an extensive IMAP protocol, allowing various
processing, including multiple directories on the server. It keeps
flags for 'seen', 'read' and 'deleted' (removing an email completely is
'purging') and can synchronise one or all directories with a client's
cache. It can send as well as receive email, though SMTP is normally
still used.
> 
> I recognize that leaving email on the server can make it easier to
> access your email from multiple devices, but (1) I rarely have that
> need (maybe not in the last 10 years), and (2), when I do, I can set
> pop3 to leave email on the server (but, iirc, I typically set my
> "main" email device to delete it from the server--iirc, if I didn't,
> I'd keep getting the same emails sent to me over and over--but maybe
> I'm not remembering that correctly.
> 

That's a matter for the client/downloader rather than the server. POP3
is a simple 'empty the mailbox' protocol, and doesn't bother keeping
records of message IDs, or indeed anything else. The POP3 downloader in
Small Business Server 2003 would download 'kept' mail multiple times,
the downloader in SBS2008 did not. It's up to the downloader to check
waiting message IDs against already stored message IDs, to decide
whether to download the whole message (again).

You've pretty much answered your own question: it's horses for courses,
IMAP is the only possibility if you work server-based, keeping all
email centrally with, at most, caches on the client machine(s). POP3 is
simplest if you use only the one email client, and that client can deal
with stored email in the way you need, with locally-defined directories
to organise things. You need to organise your own POP3 email backup,
generally a server providing IMAP will itself be routinely backed up,
and most people also keep local caches.

Microsoft's protocol for Exchange and Outlook is MAPI, generally
unpublished and of increasing complexity. It was originally the MS
'embrace and extend' strategy for displacing IMAP and taking ownership
of all server-based email, but that didn't quite happen, and Exchange
servers still offer access to the standard protocols. It still has extra
features such as calendars, linkage with customer databases and
'proper' external email client access through a webserver, in addition
to basic webmail.

-- 
Joe

Re: getting mail from Exchange/Outlook

[David Wright]

On Thu 14 Sep 2017 at 18:55:34 (+0300), Reco wrote:
>   Hi.
> 
> On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 10:19:45AM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > On Thu 14 Sep 2017 at 10:51:43 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > Begin rant:
> > [...]
> > > Since they without doubt have a backdoor for the snooping agencies, this 
> > > exposes my mail to these people for 1000's of times longer (If I do it 
> > > once a week for instance) compared to fetchmail pulling and deleting it 
> > > every 3 minutes.
> > 
> > Oh, I see. So if you can just get your emails in and out of the ISP's
> > system within three minutes, this will catch the snoopers napping/
> > on coffee break/gossiping round the water cooler/however the
> > agency's monitors take their breaks. Do you have a similar strategy
> > for crossing toll bridges? Like climbing the piers and then sprinting
> > across, so avoiding the approaches where those pesky toll booths
> > are located.
> 
> While it's a legitimate point, the better one would be the following:
> 
> How can you be sure that deleting mail at your ISP server actually
> deletes it?

If the agencies are going to snoop at the obvious point, the point of
entry to the ISP, then it makes no difference how long the ISP keeps
information after you think it's been deleted. (Once you've paid the
toll, it doesn't matter to them whether you sprint to the other side
of the bridge or push a pea across it with your nose: they've already
got your money.)

> It's very easy to setup mail delivery in such way that every e-mail is
> stored in two different places, first one for the users' IMAP, and
> second one is for … backup purposes, so to speak.

What, by emailing it somewhere else?

Cheers,
David.

Re: getting mail from Exchange/Outlook

[John Hasler]

Gene writes:
> I have, live, a 5 machine home network here, and IMO here is where
> imap belongs, so I could do my email from any of these machines by
> pulling from their server with fetchmail, and making it available to
> any of these machines by imaping it. But I have been told, repeatedly,
> that such an interfaceing between the maildir/mailfile filtered
> incoming pop3'd messages database that kmail maintains and a dovecot
> local server working from that email corpus is not possible.

Why do you want to involve kmail at that level?  Have fetchmail deliver
to dovecot, either directly or after filtering by mailagent, procmail,
or similar.  Dovecot should also be able to run spamassassin.  If it
can't, use exim4.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: getting mail from Exchange/Outlook

[Reco]

Hi.

On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 10:19:45AM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> On Thu 14 Sep 2017 at 10:51:43 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Begin rant:
> [...]
> > Since they without doubt have a backdoor for the snooping agencies, this 
> > exposes my mail to these people for 1000's of times longer (If I do it 
> > once a week for instance) compared to fetchmail pulling and deleting it 
> > every 3 minutes.
> 
> Oh, I see. So if you can just get your emails in and out of the ISP's
> system within three minutes, this will catch the snoopers napping/
> on coffee break/gossiping round the water cooler/however the
> agency's monitors take their breaks. Do you have a similar strategy
> for crossing toll bridges? Like climbing the piers and then sprinting
> across, so avoiding the approaches where those pesky toll booths
> are located.

While it's a legitimate point, the better one would be the following:

How can you be sure that deleting mail at your ISP server actually
deletes it?

It's very easy to setup mail delivery in such way that every e-mail is
stored in two different places, first one for the users' IMAP, and
second one is for … backup purposes, so to speak.

Reco

Re: getting mail from Exchange/Outlook

[Joe]

On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 21:58:17 +0900
soyeo...@doraji.xyz (Byung-Hee HWANG "(황병희, 黃"炳熙)) wrote:


> 
> Somewhat it is off topic, how about forwarding? If it is possible at
> the server, then things are easy.
> 
>
It is, or was on the versions of Exchange I've dealt with, last one
2007.

It is, however, a job for the server administrator, it isn't a user
option. Each recipient needs to be set up as an Exchange user.

-- 
Joe

Re: getting mail from Exchange/Outlook

[David Wright]

On Thu 14 Sep 2017 at 10:51:43 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> Begin rant:
[...]
> Since they without doubt have a backdoor for the snooping agencies, this 
> exposes my mail to these people for 1000's of times longer (If I do it 
> once a week for instance) compared to fetchmail pulling and deleting it 
> every 3 minutes.

Oh, I see. So if you can just get your emails in and out of the ISP's
system within three minutes, this will catch the snoopers napping/
on coffee break/gossiping round the water cooler/however the
agency's monitors take their breaks. Do you have a similar strategy
for crossing toll bridges? Like climbing the piers and then sprinting
across, so avoiding the approaches where those pesky toll booths
are located.

Cheers,
David.

Re: getting mail from Exchange/Outlook

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 14 September 2017 08:18:03 to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 12:59:04PM +0100, Darac Marjal wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > With IMAP, the expectation is that your MUA is just a viewer of
> > email. The mail is stored elsewhere and you want to
> > read/reply/manage it without worrying about storing it.
>
> [...]
>
> While in principle you are absolutely right, I've found out
> that IMAP in combination with fetchmail works wonderfully as
> a "better POP3". IDLE alone is worth it, but also much better
> error recovery etc.
>
> Cheers
> -- tomás

Begin rant:

The problem I have with that is the exposure. With my ISP's dovecot setup 
serving as both imap access and pop3, which I am using via fetchmail, is 
that because a huge fraction of their clients use imap, they have 
disabled fetchmails ability to dele the successfully downloaded message. 
THis is based on the premise, probably correct, that the average M$ user 
hasn't a clue and leaves the defaults set in OE or whatever.

Since they without doubt have a backdoor for the snooping agencies, this 
exposes my mail to these people for 1000's of times longer (If I do it 
once a week for instance) compared to fetchmail pulling and deleting it 
every 3 minutes.  Its also a cast iron bitch to maintain, requiring me 
to log into the webmail portal, move the old mail to the trash 100 at a 
time, then finally discover by clicking on the trash that the 29000 
messages I just deleted are in the trash folder and still readable, and 
it takes their machines about 5 minutes and several more clicks on the 
ok button popup to delete them too. I hadn't done that since the end of 
may, so all that tomfoolery took about an hour and a half in the night 
last night. :(

However, their spam filtering is truly excellent.

So my question to the fetchmail list last night was how to I convert the 
dele into to a move this msg to trash, and when its done with the 
current login, empty the trash.  I'll probably get ignored based on 
people in hell wanting ice water. :)

I have, live, a 5 machine home network here, and IMO here is where imap 
belongs, so I could do my email from any of these machines by pulling 
from their server with fetchmail, and making it available to any of 
these machines by imaping it. But I have been told, repeatedly, that 
such an interfaceing between the maildir/mailfile filtered incoming 
pop3'd messages database that kmail maintains and a dovecot local server 
working from that email corpus is not possible. TBT, methinks I am being 
lied to. It ought to be a packaged script, apt installable, that needs 
only the local networks address configured to make it usefull.  Not all 
local networks are on 192.168.0.0/24.

/rant:
 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: getting mail from Exchange/Outlook

[Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희, 黃炳熙)]

In Article <201709131932.v8djwxmd016...@syrano.acb.uc.edu>,
 Steve Kleene  writes:

> My employer is forcing me to shut down my long-time Linux mail server.  I
> have no choice in the matter.
>
> My employer uses Microsoft Exchange/Outlook for mail.  They have an Outlook
> Web App (OWA) that I can access from Firefox, but as far as I can tell you
> cannot save a file to the local disk with OWA.  That makes OWA pretty
> useless.  The documentation, if it can be believed, says that I can access
> Outlook with POP3 and IMAP4 programs including Thunderbird.
>
> If any of you have experience and/or advice with this problem, I'd be
> grateful to hear it.

Somewhat it is off topic, how about forwarding? If it is possible at the
server, then things are easy.

Sincerely, Byung-Hee.

-- 
^고맙습니다 _布德天下_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: getting mail from Exchange/Outlook

[Eduardo M KALINOWSKI]

On qui, 14 set 2017, rhkramer wrote:

I'm sort of moving OT, but want to ask: presumably you think IMAP is
preferable to POP3--what makes you say that (in general)?


If you read your mail in more than one device, I'd say IMAP is a must.  
Without it it's really hard to keep track of what's been read and what  
not. You could set up your main computer to download and delete mails,  
and secondary devices to not delete, so that when you're back at the  
main computer they'll be downloaded. But they would appear as unread  
there, as there's no way of storing state with POP3.


Also, I do my mail filtering (basically moving mails from each of  
several mailing lists I'm subscribed to to individual folders)  
server-side, and any IMAP client can access all my folders and the  
mails in each one.


I guess if someone does not archive mails (ie, read them and delete  
them, possibly saving only a few important ones elsewhere), then POP3  
might be viable.

--
Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
edua...@kalinowski.com.br

Re: getting mail from Exchange/Outlook

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 12:59:04PM +0100, Darac Marjal wrote:

[...]

> With IMAP, the expectation is that your MUA is just a viewer of
> email. The mail is stored elsewhere and you want to
> read/reply/manage it without worrying about storing it.

[...]

While in principle you are absolutely right, I've found out
that IMAP in combination with fetchmail works wonderfully as
a "better POP3". IDLE alone is worth it, but also much better
error recovery etc.

Cheers
- -- tomás
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Re: getting mail from Exchange/Outlook

[Darac Marjal]

On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 07:38:57AM -0400, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:

On Thursday, September 14, 2017 03:56:38 AM to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 03:32:33PM -0400, Steve Kleene wrote:
> My employer is forcing me to shut down my long-time Linux mail server.  I
> have no choice in the matter.
>
> My employer uses Microsoft Exchange/Outlook for mail.  They have an
> Outlook Web App (OWA) that I can access from Firefox, but as far as I
> can tell you cannot save a file to the local disk with OWA.  That makes
> OWA pretty useless.  The documentation, if it can be believed, says that
> I can access Outlook with POP3 and IMAP4 programs including Thunderbird.

As others have said, IMAP is the best path (if the Exchannge server is
set up for it).


I'm sort of moving OT, but want to ask: presumably you think IMAP is
preferable to POP3--what makes you say that (in general)?


Not the OP here, but...

IMAP4 and POP3 basically treat your mail server as different things. IMAP 
is, essentially, a protocol for accessing your mailbox, while POP3 is a 
protocol for picking up your mail from another mailbox.


With IMAP, the expectation is that your MUA is just a viewer of email. 
The mail is stored elsewhere and you want to read/reply/manage it 
without worrying about storing it. So IMAP allows you to download just 
the headers of messages - meaning that you can, for example, read the 
small messages and leave the big ones for later. There are even advanced 
features in IMAP such as the ability to save a message in an Outbox 
folder and ask the IMAP server to send the message out (in case your MUA 
doesn't have access to an SMTP server).


With POP, the expectation is that the remote mail server is merely 
looking after your mail temporarily. So the default for POP is to 
download all the messages and remove them from the remote server. POP is 
great when your remote mail server is managed by your ISP, and they only 
give you a limited quota. You wouldn't want to be storing months of 
messages there, so you pull them all to your local machine and read them 
there.


So, they are different protocols for different purposes. That's not to 
say that you can't work the other way around (your IMAP client could be 
configured to delete all messages once fetched, your POP client could be 
configured to leave messages on the server).




It's been a long time since i chose to use pop3 instead of imap--in fact,
iirc, imap became an option later, and my decision was more whether to stick
with pop3 or switch to imap.

I prefer pop3 because it (in most cases, unless set otherwise or dealing with
gmail) deletes the email from the email server, which is what I prefer.

I presume imap gives you an option to delete mail from the server?


When you delete a message in your MUA, IMAP will generally mark the 
message as deleted, rather than deleting it there and then. When you 
close the mailbox (either by closing your MUA or by navigating away from 
the mailbox, depending on the client) an "EXPUNGE" command is sent, 
which deletes all messages marked for deletion.




I recognize that leaving email on the server can make it easier to access your
email from multiple devices, but (1) I rarely have that need (maybe not in the
last 10 years), and (2), when I do, I can set pop3 to leave email on the
server (but, iirc, I typically set my "main" email device to delete it from
the server--iirc, if I didn't, I'd keep getting the same emails sent to me
over and over--but maybe I'm not remembering that correctly.



--
For more information, please reread.


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Re: getting mail from Exchange/Outlook

[rhkramer]

On Thursday, September 14, 2017 03:56:38 AM to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 03:32:33PM -0400, Steve Kleene wrote:
> > My employer is forcing me to shut down my long-time Linux mail server.  I
> > have no choice in the matter.
> > 
> > My employer uses Microsoft Exchange/Outlook for mail.  They have an
> > Outlook Web App (OWA) that I can access from Firefox, but as far as I
> > can tell you cannot save a file to the local disk with OWA.  That makes
> > OWA pretty useless.  The documentation, if it can be believed, says that
> > I can access Outlook with POP3 and IMAP4 programs including Thunderbird.
> 
> As others have said, IMAP is the best path (if the Exchannge server is
> set up for it).

I'm sort of moving OT, but want to ask: presumably you think IMAP is 
preferable to POP3--what makes you say that (in general)?

It's been a long time since i chose to use pop3 instead of imap--in fact, 
iirc, imap became an option later, and my decision was more whether to stick 
with pop3 or switch to imap.

I prefer pop3 because it (in most cases, unless set otherwise or dealing with 
gmail) deletes the email from the email server, which is what I prefer.

I presume imap gives you an option to delete mail from the server?

I recognize that leaving email on the server can make it easier to access your 
email from multiple devices, but (1) I rarely have that need (maybe not in the 
last 10 years), and (2), when I do, I can set pop3 to leave email on the 
server (but, iirc, I typically set my "main" email device to delete it from 
the server--iirc, if I didn't, I'd keep getting the same emails sent to me 
over and over--but maybe I'm not remembering that correctly.

Re: getting mail from Exchange/Outlook

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 03:32:33PM -0400, Steve Kleene wrote:
> My employer is forcing me to shut down my long-time Linux mail server.  I
> have no choice in the matter.
> 
> My employer uses Microsoft Exchange/Outlook for mail.  They have an Outlook
> Web App (OWA) that I can access from Firefox, but as far as I can tell you
> cannot save a file to the local disk with OWA.  That makes OWA pretty
> useless.  The documentation, if it can be believed, says that I can access
> Outlook with POP3 and IMAP4 programs including Thunderbird.

As others have said, IMAP is the best path (if the Exchannge server is
set up for it).

In my case, I've been doing it for the last six years. At first directly
with mutt, then, and after realizing that Exchange [1] was set up to
archive the mails after a while and did other things to my mailboxes,
I started archiving locally, picking up the mails with fetchmail and
reading them locally with mutt.

So yes, I can confirm mutt+Exchange and fetchmail+exchange both work
reliably via imap. Calendar and all (you get calendar notifications
in that funny text/calendar format).

I played around with other possibilities, but most of them failed due
to lacking NTLM auth support (which my work Exchange instance requires).

Feel free to ask for details

Cheers
- -- tomás
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Re: getting mail from Exchange/Outlook

[Erik Christiansen]

On 13.09.17 15:32, Steve Kleene wrote:
> My employer is forcing me to shut down my long-time Linux mail server.  I
> have no choice in the matter.
> 
> My employer uses Microsoft Exchange/Outlook for mail.  They have an Outlook
> Web App (OWA) that I can access from Firefox, but as far as I can tell you
> cannot save a file to the local disk with OWA.  That makes OWA pretty
> useless.  The documentation, if it can be believed, says that I can access
> Outlook with POP3 and IMAP4 programs including Thunderbird.
> 
> If any of you have experience and/or advice with this problem, I'd be
> grateful to hear it.

If the employer's core requirement is to funnel all mail through one M$
mail server, you might be able to get away with just pointing your Linux
mail server at theirs. (About 12 years ago, we did that when our
department faced the same corporate directive. I can't remember whether
we were able to continue using SMTP or had to switch to POP3 for the
link. But it allowed the departmental mail server to hold/distribute
mail as before, so no upheaval.)

Or shut down the Linux mail server, and use fetchmail to fetch mail to
your host, via POP3 or IMAP, then use your preferred MUA. (OK, there are
alternatives to fetchmail (and procmail to sort it), but I've not tried
them.)

Erik

Re: getting mail from Exchange/Outlook

[Joe]

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 15:32:33 -0400
Steve Kleene  wrote:

> My employer is forcing me to shut down my long-time Linux mail
> server.  I have no choice in the matter.
> 
> My employer uses Microsoft Exchange/Outlook for mail.  They have an
> Outlook Web App (OWA) that I can access from Firefox, but as far as I
> can tell you cannot save a file to the local disk with OWA.  That
> makes OWA pretty useless.

You may find that the server has been deliberately configured to
prevent this, as a 'security' measure. I haven't used OWA for a while,
and I'm not sure what version I last used, but attachments could be
saved.

>  The documentation, if it can be believed,
> says that I can access Outlook with POP3 and IMAP4 programs including
> Thunderbird.

As others have said, this is not enabled by default and requires
someone to do it, as well as any firewall adjustments and port
forwarding involved.

-- 
Joe

Re: getting mail from Exchange/Outlook

[Sarunas Burdulis]

On 2017-09-13 15:32, Steve Kleene wrote:
> My employer is forcing me to shut down my long-time Linux mail server.  I
> have no choice in the matter.
> 
> My employer uses Microsoft Exchange/Outlook for mail.  They have an Outlook
> Web App (OWA) that I can access from Firefox, but as far as I can tell you
> cannot save a file to the local disk with OWA.  That makes OWA pretty
> useless.  The documentation, if it can be believed, says that I can access
> Outlook with POP3 and IMAP4 programs including Thunderbird.
> 
> If any of you have experience and/or advice with this problem, I'd be
> grateful to hear it.

I'm accessing Exchange mail account via IMAP (Thunderbird). Exchange
server settings can probably differ, but, while in OWA, it is worth
checking

Options → Mail → Accounts → POP and IMAP

where you might find settings for configuring IMAP and SMTP in your
email app.


-- 
Sarunas Burdulis
Systems Administrator, Dartmouth Mathematics
math.dartmouth.edu/~sarunas



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Re: getting mail from Exchange/Outlook

[Darac Marjal]

On 13/09/17 20:32, Steve Kleene wrote:
> My employer is forcing me to shut down my long-time Linux mail server.  I
> have no choice in the matter.
>
> My employer uses Microsoft Exchange/Outlook for mail.  They have an Outlook
> Web App (OWA) that I can access from Firefox, but as far as I can tell you
> cannot save a file to the local disk with OWA.  That makes OWA pretty
> useless.  The documentation, if it can be believed, says that I can access
> Outlook with POP3 and IMAP4 programs including Thunderbird.

This is true, but depends on the administrator enabling such access.
Otherwise, look at davmail (http://davmail.sourceforge.net/) which will
log into Exchange and provide local IMAP/Caldav access for your existing
applications :)

>
> If any of you have experience and/or advice with this problem, I'd be
> grateful to hear it.
>

Re: getting mail from Exchange/Outlook

[Alexander V. Makartsev]

Could you please elaborate more about what exactly you trying to achieve?
You can setup Microsofck Exchange server to access it by IMAP transport
and use any compatible mail client for that, ex. Outlook or Thunderbird.
AFAIK, OWA is just a web-mail client to access Exchange via your browser.
There is also virtualized service (SaaS) of Exchange by Microsofck
(Office 360) where you pay money annually for per-user licenses, to get
functional Exchange server and access all your mail stored on Microsofck
servers via web-mail interface or IMAP-compatible mail client.


On 14.09.2017 00:32, Steve Kleene wrote:
> My employer is forcing me to shut down my long-time Linux mail server.  I
> have no choice in the matter.
>
> My employer uses Microsoft Exchange/Outlook for mail.  They have an Outlook
> Web App (OWA) that I can access from Firefox, but as far as I can tell you
> cannot save a file to the local disk with OWA.  That makes OWA pretty
> useless.  The documentation, if it can be believed, says that I can access
> Outlook with POP3 and IMAP4 programs including Thunderbird.
>
> If any of you have experience and/or advice with this problem, I'd be
> grateful to hear it.
>

Re: Getting mail using gnus

[Sian Mountbatten]

Sian Mountbatten  writes:

> Memnon Anon  writes:
>
>> Sian Mountbatten  writes:
>>
>>> When I issue the command M-x gnus in Emacs, some messages flash
>>> by in the echo area, but I do not get any mail. 
>>
>> Have a look at your message buffer: *Messages* 
> No joy there.
Solved the problem by using Thunderbird. I shall continue to use
gnus for newsgroups. Thanks to all for your suggestions.
-- 
Dr S Mountbatten


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Re: Getting mail using gnus

[Sian Mountbatten]

Memnon Anon  writes:

> Sian Mountbatten  writes:
>
>> When I issue the command M-x gnus in Emacs, some messages flash
>> by in the echo area, but I do not get any mail. 
>
> Have a look at your message buffer: *Messages* 
No joy there.
-- 
Dr S Mountbatten


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Re: Getting mail using gnus

[Sian Mountbatten]

hob...@poukram.net (Rémi Letot) writes:

> Sian Mountbatten  writes:
>
>
> [...]
>
>> When I issue the command M-x gnus in Emacs, some messages flash
>> by in the echo area, but I do not get any mail. 
>
> gnus treats imap folders as newsgroups, so you have to subscribe to
> them. 
>
> When in the "Group" buffer, press ^ to access the "Server" buffer. Then
> enter your imap server, and subscribe to any folder that you want.
When I try to enter the imap server, the cursor is put onto the next
line. Trying e gives a beep as a  also does.
-- 
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Re: Getting mail using gnus

[Sian Mountbatten]

Memnon Anon  writes:

> Sian Mountbatten  writes:
>
>> When I issue the command M-x gnus in Emacs, some messages flash
>> by in the echo area, but I do not get any mail. 
>
> Have a look at your message buffer: *Messages* 
I've done that, but the only clue is the report that gnus is
analysing the file .imap-authinfo. Why gnus fails to open the
link with mail.messagingengine.com is a mystery. Here is the
contents of that file:

machine mail.messagingengine.com login poenikatu password * port 993


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Re: Getting mail using gnus

[Memnon Anon]

Sian Mountbatten  writes:

> When I issue the command M-x gnus in Emacs, some messages flash
> by in the echo area, but I do not get any mail. 

Have a look at your message buffer: *Messages* 

Memnon


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Re: Getting mail using gnus

[Rémi Letot]

Sian Mountbatten  writes:


[...]

> When I issue the command M-x gnus in Emacs, some messages flash
> by in the echo area, but I do not get any mail. 

gnus treats imap folders as newsgroups, so you have to subscribe to
them. 

When in the "Group" buffer, press ^ to access the "Server" buffer. Then
enter your imap server, and subscribe to any folder that you want.

HTH,
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Re: Getting mail to recognise multiple identities

[Phillip Deackes]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> 
> A week ago or so, I posted the list asking for a nice way to get my
> mail
> client to send out from different "apparent" users - I hve my academic
> job, my consulting job, my start-up, my personal stuff. All these need
> different signatures and headers, and I was getting bored of doing it
> all by hand.

For anyone else interested, Ishmail is a GUI email app (MUA) which also
facilitates multiple identities. All you need to do is get Ishmail to
add an X-Identity header which is displayed (if you wish) at the top of
the 'Compose' window underneath 'Subject'.

You add an identifying name in the X-Identity box. If I add 'gsmh'
Ishmail looks for a folder called 'gsmh' in my home directory. In that
folder I have three files: '.headers', '.from' and '.signature'. You
just need to put into each file whatever you want to appear on emails
from that particular identity. Once it is set up it is really simple.
You should be able to see the new X-Identity header in this posting.

If you would like a GUI alternative to Pine, you might like to give
Ishmail a try. Ishmail was a commercial app but is now in the public
domain and under active development. It is based on Motif and compiles
cleanly against the now free OpenMotif. An excellent, fully featured
product!

The new Ishmail web site is:  http://ishmail.sourceforge.net/


--
Phillip Deackes
Using Storm Linux

Re: Getting mail to recognise multiple identities

[Ron Farrer]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

> A week ago or so, I posted the list asking for a nice way to get my mail
> client to send out from different "apparent" users - I hve my academic
> job, my consulting job, my start-up, my personal stuff. All these need
> different signatures and headers, and I was getting bored of doing it
> all by hand.

Try mutt. It can deal with mutliple address, signatures, etc. Also
it doesn't have a dumb license like pine.  


HTH,

Ron
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Re: Getting mail and browsing the web

[John Carline]

Walter Logeman wrote:


> I use wvdial and I think I am connected -- I don't know how to
> unconnect though  :)



One simple way is to start wvdial in an xterm. Then when you kill the xterm 
wvdial
disconnects before the xterm dies. I use the script below with the name of my
provider as the title. Anything like it would work fine.

John

#! /bin/sh
xterm -ls -sb -fn 8x13 -title "Stic.net Logon Page" -e wvdial &


--

Powered by the Penguin

Re: Getting mail and browsing the web

[Phil Dyer]

Walter Logeman wrote:
> 
> 
> Web
> I have Lynx running but hitting the red urls does not work unless
> the file is local.
> 
> Is it just a matter of configuring a file somewhere?
> 
> Walter
> 
> 
Walter,
It sounds like you don't have dns servers set up. Find out
your ISP's DNS servers address(es). As root, edit
/etc/resolv.conf
The format follows:

nameserver 127.0.0.1   # This identifies your
machine locally.
nameserver 198.xxx.xxx.xxx # This is your ISP's DNS
server ip address
nameserver 198.xxx.xxx.xxx # ISP's backup DNS server.

Now as others have sugested, use ping and see if you can
ping by name like this:
ping www.debian.org

see if you get a reply.

HTH
-- 
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Re: Getting mail and browsing the web

[Karl F. Larsen]

Hi Walter, you have a lot of good questions. There are some odd
things about Linux and the internet. We use ppp to set up a connection to
our internet provider. Once this connection is made then other software
takes over to DO something.

Learn the ip number of your internet server. Then use whatever it
is to make the ppp connection. Then in a exterm window type ping and then
the ip number of your server. You should see the pings working. Get a
whole list of them. Turn this off with Ctrl-c.

If ping doesn't work keep working with the ppp part until it does.
Once that is right it works well and long...:-)

On Sun, 22 Aug 1999, Walter Logeman wrote:

> 
> Some newbie questions:
> 
> I am in the process of getting a dialup account to work in my new
> & first ever install of Linux, slink. I think I'll find it easier
> if I have an overall picture of how it is done -- especially how
> it is already set up in the install I have. I have been reading
> howto after howto, but it is still hard to see how it all works
> on this particular distribution.
> 
It is confusing. Take one step at a time. And get Netscape.


Best wishes 

 - Karl F. Larsen, [EMAIL PROTECTED]  (505) 524-3303  -

Re: Getting mail and browsing the web

[Mark Wagnon]

On Sun 08/22/99 07:31AM, Walter Logeman wrote:
> 
> Nor can I do any thing once I am connected - what I have tried is
> to load mutt, if it could get mail I am not sure how to tell it
> to.
> 

Hi Walter,

I too just recently got mail set up on my machine. I got a lot of
help here, but I also consulted an article in the Linux Gazette
http://www.linuxgazette.com/issue43/stumpel.html which I found
invaluable.

basically you need to configure exim for your setup. I'm not sure
what you'd choose to set it up for dialup. Other files of
interest are the .forward, .fetchmailrc, and .procmailrc files.

Procmail uses the .procmailrc file to filter your mail into
different folders among other things.

Fetchmail uses the .fetcmailrc so you don't have to keep typing
in the info needed to access your mail server.

the .forward file is used to (duh :) ) forward mail. In my case
it calls procmail.

The hardest part is getting your .procmailrc set up. I got a lot
of info from this site:
http://www.ling.helsinki.fi/~reriksso/procmail/mini-faq.html

I'm sure others more knowledgeable than I will chime in here.

HTH
-- 
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Mark Wagnon   ) Debian GNU/ -o) / /  (_)__  __   __
Chula Vista, CA  (  /\\/ /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ /
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Re: Getting mail

[Alexander N. Benner]

hi

Ship's Log, Lt. [EMAIL PROTECTED], Stardate 221298.0927:
> Hi,
> 
> Actually, to get mail from my ISP (POP3 server), I do 
> 
> pon
> popclient -v mail.infonie.fr -u frleg
> poff
> 
> I would like my system to get automatically my mails :
>every hours if I am not connected (so it will have to connect en 
> disconnect by itself)
>every half an hour (for example) if I am connected (without disconnecting 
> me)
> 
> I read several HOWTOs and didn't find good explanation. What is the solution :
> Using scripts ? (Have you some ?)
> Using things like diald ?

I wrote 2 zsh scripts for myself which do something like this. 

they may not be a pretty good style, so if someone want to send me
enhancements feel free to do so ;-)


Greetings
-- 
Alexander N. Benner  -  The Seven Promises of a Promise Keeper:  -3-

A Promise Keeper is committed to practicing spiritual, moral, ethical,
and sexual purity.
#!/usr/bin/zsh

#keeps pattern as filename if no match
setopt nonomatch

PATH=/bin:/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/local/sbin

if ! test -f ~/.online/*
then
until (route|grep rusmax1 >/dev/null)  # I wait for the def. route
do
ipon   # a bin of mine which is sim. to pon just isdn
sleep 5
if (route|grep 129.69 >/dev/null) # sometimes something goes wrong
then
ping -c 1 129.69.18.28
#sleep 3
#route add default ippp0 
else
#sleep 3
fi
done
fi

#that is the importent part ...
#I count the times the script was called 
#offline will go only offline if noone want to be online anymore

touch ~/.online/`expr 0\`ls ~/.online|tail -1 \` + 1`
#!/usr/bin/zsh

setopt nonomatch

PATH=/bin:/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/local/sbin

if test -f ~/.online/*
then
sendmail -q
#send all remaining EMails

count=30

#Wait until mailq is empty, up to a max of 5 min.
until ((mailq|grep 'Mail queue is empty' >/dev/null)||test $count -eq 0)
#while (mailq|egrep -v '^$'>/dev/null)
do
  sleep 10
  count=`expr $count - 1`
done

#one person wat's to go offline
rm ~/.online/`ls ~/.online|tail -1`

#in case that was the last one remaining
if ! test -f ~/.online/*
then
#go offline (yupp, again my bin for isdn)
ipoff
fi

fi

Re: Getting mail

[k e c h i e]

On Tue, 22 Dec 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Actually, to get mail from my ISP (POP3 server), I do 
> 
> pon
> popclient -v mail.infonie.fr -u frleg
> poff
> 
> I would like my system to get automatically my mails :
>every hours if I am not connected (so it will have to connect en 
> disconnect by itself)
>every half an hour (for example) if I am connected (without disconnecting 
> me)

You have to edit your /etc/ppp/ip-up script.

And put pon in your crontab so it would dial every hour or so.

BTW have you tried the -d (daemon) option in fetchmail/popclient?

k e c h i e

Re: Getting mail from a POP3 server

[Phil Humpherys]

"Mitchell Surface" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Greetings,
> 
> This should be an easy question but I can't seem to find an answer. I
> want to get my e-mail from my ISP's POP server. I've been messing around
> with sendmail (which is overkill, I now realize) without any luck. Can
> someone point me to a straight forward solution, preferably with
> examples of the config files? I don't really care which software I use,
> just so long as I can get it to work.

I highly recommend fetchmail.

--
Phil Humpherys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   DriverSoft
Unix Systems Administrator   Mobile: +1.801.725.3257 
WWW/PGPkeys: http://www.spire.com/~humphery

Re: Getting mail from a POP3 server

[Mitchell Surface]

A big thank you to everyone who sent me messages about my POP problem.

I must add that Pann's instructions (at the site in the tag) are the
best set for a beginning Debian user that I've seen. There should be
some way to either add these to the Debian site or at least provide a
link to them.

Thanks!

Mitchell Surface
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fort Wayne, IN USA

Pann McCuaig wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Sep 14, 1998 at 10:53:57AM -0400, Mitchell Surface wrote:
> 
> > This should be an easy question but I can't seem to find an answer. I
> > want to get my e-mail from my ISP's POP server. I've been messing around
> > with sendmail (which is overkill, I now realize) without any luck. Can
> > someone point me to a straight forward solution, preferably with
> > examples of the config files? I don't really care which software I use,
> > just so long as I can get it to work.
> 
> My configuration, using smail and fetchmail, is detailed at the URL in
> my sig.
> 
> HTH,
> Pann
> --
>  What's All the Buzz About Linux?
> 
>  http://www.rdrop.com/users/pann/

Re: Getting mail from a POP3 server

[Pann McCuaig]

On Mon, Sep 14, 1998 at 10:53:57AM -0400, Mitchell Surface wrote:

> This should be an easy question but I can't seem to find an answer. I
> want to get my e-mail from my ISP's POP server. I've been messing around
> with sendmail (which is overkill, I now realize) without any luck. Can
> someone point me to a straight forward solution, preferably with
> examples of the config files? I don't really care which software I use,
> just so long as I can get it to work.

My configuration, using smail and fetchmail, is detailed at the URL in
my sig.

HTH,
Pann
-- 
 What's All the Buzz About Linux? 

 http://www.rdrop.com/users/pann/

Re: Getting mail from a POP3 server

[Giuseppe Sacco]

If you just need to read e-mails from pop3 and you don't want to install new
software you can use emacs. I use it everyday.

Bye,
Giuseppe

Re: Getting mail from a POP3 server

[Østergaard]

Fetchmail

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Mitchell Surface wrote:

> Greetings,
> 
> This should be an easy question but I can't seem to find an answer. I
> want to get my e-mail from my ISP's POP server. I've been messing around
> with sendmail (which is overkill, I now realize) without any luck. Can
> someone point me to a straight forward solution, preferably with
> examples of the config files? I don't really care which software I use,
> just so long as I can get it to work.
> 
> TIA
> 
> Mitchell Surface
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Fort Wayne, IN USA
> 
> 
> --  
> Unsubscribe?  mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] < /dev/null
> 
> 

Re: Getting mail via POP3 (Filtering to correct user?)

[Stephane Bortzmeyer]

On Friday 8 May 1998, at 20 h 36, the keyboard of Art Lemasters 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> to take a look at the "Offline-Mailing" (or something like that)
> HOW TO (in the mini-HOW TO's or one of the other special HOW TO's)

Don't. The "Linux off-line mailing method" mini-HOWTO, while a good 
effort (after all, it's not easy to find people nice enough to write 
documentation for free) is severely flawed. It doesn't speak about 
alternative solutions (such as the obvious one, UUCP) and it describes a 
solution which doesn't work (sorting the mail from the headers, while the 
headers does not contain the most important thing: the enveloppe).

> if you must download via POP3.  Oh, if you do the POP3 method, you'll
> need to have a talk with your provider about having him install a
> special MX-to-account script (as per the HOW TO).  You should go with

This doesn't work for Bcc: messages or for mailing lists. That's two good 
reasons to *not* use it.




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Re: Getting mail via POP3 (Filtering to correct user?)

[Art Lemasters]

> I suppose a bit more explanation IS in order.  I own the domain pandora.org
> which is hosted by an IPP.  I would like for users on my local system to be
> able to use the e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]  To my mind that involves
> retrieving mail from my IPP's POP3 server to my local machine and then
> sending it to the corresponding user on the local system where they can
> either read from there or forward it on to yet another address with a
> .forward file as is their choice.

As far as I know, you either need to accept the mail via smtp
for your domain (if you are online 24/7--all the time) or you need
to take a look at the "Offline-Mailing" (or something like that)
HOW TO (in the mini-HOW TO's or one of the other special HOW TO's)
at a LINUX Documentation project site, for example
http://sunsite.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO/
if you must download via POP3.  Oh, if you do the POP3 method, you'll
need to have a talk with your provider about having him install a
special MX-to-account script (as per the HOW TO).  You should go with
smtp if at all possible, and if you have a dedicated line, though.

Art

> 
> I'm beginning to think I may have to use procmail but I REALLY don't want
> to if I can get away with it.
> 
> TIA,
>   A
> --
> Adam C. Edwards  [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.pandora.org/
> ---
> There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its luster, when jewels cease 
> to sparkle, when the throne room becomes a dungeon and all that is left is 
> a father's love for his child.
> ---
> 
> 
> --
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 


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Re: Getting mail via POP3 (Filtering to correct user?)

[Adam Edwards]

At 08:07 PM 5/8/98 -0500, Art Lemasters wrote:
>> Hi,  
>>   Bo system. Tweaked 2.0.30 Kernel.  Got Diald dialing on d and sendmail
>> sending.  The problem I'm having is with fetchmail (I think)  I've run
>> fetchmail from the command line and it has no problem finding my pop server
>> but the mail addressed to wolfatpandora.org doesn't get interpreted as
>> being for wolfatlocalhost so it just goes back out onto the Net instead of
>> being sent local to the user wolf.  Question would be...Is it an alias I
>> need to configure?  An Option I have to configure in
>> fetchmail([EMAIL PROTECTED]@localhost)?  Or something I'm just not
>> getting at all?
>
>Adam, do you own the pandora.org domain, or do you have a user account
>(wolf) with an ISP who owns that domain?
>
>Art 
>
>> 
I suppose a bit more explanation IS in order.  I own the domain pandora.org
which is hosted by an IPP.  I would like for users on my local system to be
able to use the e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]  To my mind that involves
retrieving mail from my IPP's POP3 server to my local machine and then
sending it to the corresponding user on the local system where they can
either read from there or forward it on to yet another address with a
.forward file as is their choice.

I'm beginning to think I may have to use procmail but I REALLY don't want
to if I can get away with it.

TIA,
A
--
Adam C. Edwards  [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.pandora.org/
---
There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its luster, when jewels cease 
to sparkle, when the throne room becomes a dungeon and all that is left is 
a father's love for his child.
---


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Re: Getting mail via POP3 (Filtering to correct user?)

[Art Lemasters]

> Hi,  
>   Bo system. Tweaked 2.0.30 Kernel.  Got Diald dialing on d and sendmail
> sending.  The problem I'm having is with fetchmail (I think)  I've run
> fetchmail from the command line and it has no problem finding my pop server
> but the mail addressed to wolfatpandora.org doesn't get interpreted as
> being for wolfatlocalhost so it just goes back out onto the Net instead of
> being sent local to the user wolf.  Question would be...Is it an alias I
> need to configure?  An Option I have to configure in
> fetchmail([EMAIL PROTECTED]@localhost)?  Or something I'm just not
> getting at all?

 In either case, did you put your domain/your ISP's domain on
the "hostnames" line in your /etc/smail/config line (if you run smail),
or have you done the equivalent for sendmail ("cw" file or something like
that?)?  And, if you do not own the domain, but your ISP does, are you
using a user account on your own machine by the same name (assume wolf)
as that on your ISP's mail server?

Art

> 
> TIA,
>   Adam
> --
> Adam C. Edwards  [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.pandora.org/
> ---
> There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its luster, when jewels cease 
> to sparkle, when the throne room becomes a dungeon and all that is left is 
> a father's love for his child.
> ---
> 
> 
> --
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 


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Re: Getting mail via POP3 (Filtering to correct user?)

[Art Lemasters]

> Hi,  
>   Bo system. Tweaked 2.0.30 Kernel.  Got Diald dialing on d and sendmail
> sending.  The problem I'm having is with fetchmail (I think)  I've run
> fetchmail from the command line and it has no problem finding my pop server
> but the mail addressed to wolfatpandora.org doesn't get interpreted as
> being for wolfatlocalhost so it just goes back out onto the Net instead of
> being sent local to the user wolf.  Question would be...Is it an alias I
> need to configure?  An Option I have to configure in
> fetchmail([EMAIL PROTECTED]@localhost)?  Or something I'm just not
> getting at all?

Adam, do you own the pandora.org domain, or do you have a user account
(wolf) with an ISP who owns that domain?

Art 

> 
> TIA,
>   Adam
> --
> Adam C. Edwards  [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.pandora.org/
> ---
> There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its luster, when jewels cease 
> to sparkle, when the throne room becomes a dungeon and all that is left is 
> a father's love for his child.
> ---
> 
> 
> --
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 


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Re: Getting Mail From POP3 Servers

[Mike]

On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Graham Lillico +44 1785 248131 wrote:

> currently using fetchmail to do this but it doesn't seem to use procmail so 

You want to get the mail filtering FAQ.

>From the FAQ:
FAQ-launcher-URLs:
 http://www.jazzie.com/ii/faqs/archive/mail/filtering-faq/
 http://www.best.com/~ii/faqs/archive/mail/filtering-faq/

Worked for me like a charm; took about 10 minutes.

Mike

--
Live fast, die young, and leave a good looking corpse.
-- James Dean


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Re: Getting Mail From POP3 Servers

[Joerg Friedrich]

On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Graham Lillico +44 1785 248131 wrote:

> Hello all
> 
> I'm still trying to get smail working like I want, but I think I am nearly
> there thanks to all your help.
> 
> But I have another question.
> 
> How can I get my internet mail to my mail server from my isp's pop3 server, so
> that my promailrc file will filter all my mail both internet and local, I am


use a .forward-file.

.forward

"|IFS=' ' && exec /usr/bin/procmail -f- || exit 75 #"


with your userid for 
---
Heute ist nicht alle Tage, ich komme wieder, keine Frage!!!

   Joerg


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Re: Getting Mail From POP3 Servers

[Will Lowe]

On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Graham Lillico +44 1785 248131 wrote:

> How can I get my internet mail to my mail server from my isp's pop3 server, so
> that my promailrc file will filter all my mail both internet and local, I am
> currently using fetchmail to do this but it doesn't seem to use procmail so 
> all
> my internet mail is getting placed in /var/spool/mail/ is there away
Sure.  You can specify a delivery agent in the .fetchmailrc file with 
the "mda" option.

Alternatively,  set up fetchmail to drop mail in
/var/spool/mail/ and make yourself a .forward that looks like
this:
"|IFS=' ' && exec /usr/bin/procmail -f- || exit 75 #harpo"
where "harpo" is your username.  This is what I do -- simpler to let
fetchmail deliver everything by the normal smail routes and let smail
forward it on to procmail.

Will

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