Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”?
Hi, On Jan/09/2021, Carl Fink wrote: > On Sat, 2021-01-09 at 15:25 -0600, William Torrez Corea wrote: > > My version actually is Debian 4.19.146-1 (2020-09-17) x86_64 > > GNU/Linux. > > The recommendation is to reinstall instead. It's easier and doesn't > take much more time. Depends on the system's configuration it might take much more time to re-install and set up again the upgrade. I've been upgrading Debian systems for many, many years and the upgrade process for me has been shorter, for my systems, than installing+setup (e.g. to change from 32 bit to 64 or adding a new computer). After using a system for a long time if not very careful it might has a set of personalisations that might be hard to do again from scratch. Again: depends on the particular system. Just my 2cents... -- Carles Pina i Estany https://carles.pina.cat
Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”?
On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 04:44:03 -0800 Peter Ehlert wrote: > > On 1/9/21 5:04 PM, John Hasler wrote: > > Carl Fink writes: > >> I'm repeating the recommendation I've seen on this very list for > >> decades. > > It is an incorrect recommendation. Upgrading works well and is > > supported and recommended by Debian. > > sometimes, but not always. I prefer Reinstall, it's painless > > https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUpgrade > > "Performing a release upgrade is not without risk. The upgrade may fail, > leaving the system in a non-functioning state. USERS SHOULD BACKUP ALL > DATA before attempting a release upgrade" And you certainly SHOULD BACKUP ALL DATA before reinstalling, unless the data is on a different disk than you're installing to, I suppose, but in that case, I assume that you don't need to backup when upgrading, either. (Of course, you should always be backing up everything you care about, whatever you're doing.) Celejar
Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian ???buster????
On Mon 11 Jan 2021 at 09:13:53 (-0600), David Wright wrote: > On Mon 11 Jan 2021 at 01:34:41 (-0600), William Torrez Corea wrote: > > cat /etc/debian_version > > 10.7 > > So that looks as if you're running buster at the latest point-release, > with the exception of any packages that are being held back, like > presumably the kernel. Ah, I forgot to insert one thing before I sent this off. I always install linux-image-amd64, whose dependencies are modified as each new image is released. If you ever install a specific version, like say linux-image-4.19.0-11-amd64 in your case, you might never become aware that a new version has been released, because apt sees the new linux-image package as just any old random package that's been added to the distribution, like gnomebasher, say. So make sure that linux-image-amd64 is installed, and marked 'manual', and that any more specific versions are not manual, but automatic. (That is, if you don't have your own reasons against doing that.) Cheers, David.
Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian ???buster????
Andrei POPESCU wrote: ... > Mixing Debian with other distributions is dangerous. yes, that's just asking for trouble. songbird
Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian ???buster????
On Mon 11 Jan 2021 at 01:34:41 (-0600), William Torrez Corea wrote: > cat /etc/debian_version > 10.7 So that looks as if you're running buster at the latest point-release, with the exception of any packages that are being held back, like presumably the kernel. > cat /etc/apt/sources.list This file looks quite "crafted", as if you have some specific requirements. > # > > # deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 10.0.0 _Buster_ - Official amd64 NETINST > 20190706-10:23]/ buster main > > #deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 10.0.0 _Buster_ - Official amd64 NETINST > 20190706-10:23]/ buster main So it looks as if you installed buster quite early in its release period, and have been upgrading it to 10.7. That would mean that you must have been upgrading the kernel-image package already. > > deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ buster main > deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ buster main > > deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main > deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main > > # buster-updates, previously known as 'volatile' > deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main > deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main I'm not sure why you're not considering contrib and non-free packages at this time whereas you still have these in the stretch lines below. > > # This system was installed using small removable media > # (e.g. netinst, live or single CD). The matching "deb cdrom" > # entries were disabled at the end of the installation process. > # For information about how to configure apt package sources, > # see the sources.list(5) manual. > deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian stable main contrib You already have this line above, as buster. In such a crafted file as this, I'm surprised you'd want to suddenly consider bullseye sources on their release day. > > # realtek firmware > deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian stretch main non-free > deb-src http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian stretch main non-free Are you running some specific firmware packages from the old release? Could this be a reason for not routinely performing apt-get's dist-upgrade to upgrade the kernel? > #deb http://http.kali.org/kali kali-rolling main contrib non-free > #deb http://http.kali.org/kali kali-rolling main contrib non-free I don't know whether these lines have ever been activated since you originally installed 10.0. I have no idea of the consequences that activating them would have, and whether apt might install packages that prevent others from being able to upgrade. Summing up, it looks as though you've probably been keeping the system up to date with apt-get update and apt-get upgrade. I'd be interested to see what apt-get dist-upgrade would give you as its intentions. (And answer no if they are unsatifactory.) > On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 5:58 PM Dan Ritter wrote: > > William Torrez Corea wrote: > > > My version actually is Debian 4.19.146-1 (2020-09-17) x86_64 GNU/Linux. > > > > Well, that's a Buster or buster-backports kernel. What does > > /etc/debian-version say? Backports kernels should have "bpo" in their version, so it's not that. Cheers, David.
Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”?
On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 21:54:41 +0200 Andrei POPESCU wrote: > On Du, 10 ian 21, 17:05:09, Joe wrote: > > On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 18:31:12 +0200 > > Andrei POPESCU wrote: > > > > > On Du, 10 ian 21, 04:44:03, Peter Ehlert wrote: > > > > > > > > On 1/9/21 5:04 PM, John Hasler wrote: > > > > > Carl Fink writes: > > > > > > I'm repeating the recommendation I've seen on this very list for > > > > > > decades. > > > > > It is an incorrect recommendation. Upgrading works well and is > > > > > supported and recommended by Debian. > > > > > > > > sometimes, but not always. I prefer Reinstall, it's painless > > > > > > The install? Sure. > > > > > > Migrating all your configurations to the new system? Less so. > > > > > > > Not just the configurations. Installing a couple of thousand packages > > will take some time, if you are unwilling to use a cloning method. > > With a few notable exceptions for me it's mostly enough to replicate > only the set of manually installed packages. > > Of course, on such occasions I do use the opportunity to review what > packages I still need, which usually takes more time than the actual > installation :D > > Eventually I intend to have that information in a configuration > management system (e.g. ansible), so that getting a new system installed > and fully configured is mostly automated. I've been procrastinating replacing my main machine's drive (laptop SSD), which I've really outgrown, with a larger one for a while already. The new drive is just sitting there, but I can't decide whether to go with a new install, and spend the time getting rid of stuff I really don't need (which will take more time than the actual install, as you say) and migrate configuration, or to just do what Felix suggests in another method in this thread and just clone partitions. Celejar
Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian ???buster????
On Lu, 11 ian 21, 01:34:41, William Torrez Corea wrote: > cat /etc/debian_version > 10.7 It looks like your are running up-to-date buster, at least to the most recent point release. > cat /etc/apt/sources.list > # > > # deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 10.0.0 _Buster_ - Official amd64 NETINST > 20190706-10:23]/ buster main > > #deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 10.0.0 _Buster_ - Official amd64 NETINST > 20190706-10:23]/ buster main Hopefully these were wrapped by the mail program, they should be one long line each in sources.list (but APT would complain if they weren't). > deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ buster main > deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ buster main > > deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main > deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main > > # buster-updates, previously known as 'volatile' > deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main > deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main Unless you are compiling packages it is safe to disable the 'deb-src' lines, it should make 'apt update' a little bit faster. > # This system was installed using small removable media > # (e.g. netinst, live or single CD). The matching "deb cdrom" > # entries were disabled at the end of the installation process. > # For information about how to configure apt package sources, > # see the sources.list(5) manual. > deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian stable main contrib At the moment stable = buster. If you keep this line APT will (attempt to) upgrade to the next stable (bullseye) as soon as it is released. In most cases such a distribution upgrade should be well prepared (starting with reading the Release Notes), so you might want to remove this line completely. See also below. > # realtek firmware > deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian stretch main non-free > deb-src http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian stretch main non-free The stretch release is currently 'oldstable'. I suggest adding 'contrib' (if needed) and 'non-free' to the buster 'deb' lines above (all of them) in order to upgrade the firmware package(s). If everything works correctly you should then disable the stretch lines. > #deb http://http.kali.org/kali kali-rolling main contrib non-free > #deb http://http.kali.org/kali kali-rolling main contrib non-free Mixing Debian with other distributions is dangerous. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian ???buster????
cat /etc/debian_version 10.7 cat /etc/apt/sources.list # # deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 10.0.0 _Buster_ - Official amd64 NETINST 20190706-10:23]/ buster main #deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 10.0.0 _Buster_ - Official amd64 NETINST 20190706-10:23]/ buster main deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ buster main deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ buster main deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main # buster-updates, previously known as 'volatile' deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main # This system was installed using small removable media # (e.g. netinst, live or single CD). The matching "deb cdrom" # entries were disabled at the end of the installation process. # For information about how to configure apt package sources, # see the sources.list(5) manual. deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian stable main contrib # realtek firmware deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian stretch main non-free deb-src http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian stretch main non-free #deb http://http.kali.org/kali kali-rolling main contrib non-free #deb http://http.kali.org/kali kali-rolling main contrib non-free On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 5:58 PM Dan Ritter wrote: > William Torrez Corea wrote: > > My version actually is Debian 4.19.146-1 (2020-09-17) x86_64 GNU/Linux. > > > > Well, that's a Buster or buster-backports kernel. What does > /etc/debian-version say? > > What are the contents of /etc/apt/sources.list ? > > -dsr- > -- With kindest regards, William. ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org ⠈⠳⣄
Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”?
Andrei POPESCU composed on 2021-01-10 18:31 (UTC+0200): > Peter Ehlert wrote: >> John Hasler wrote: >>> ...Upgrading works well and is >>> supported and recommended by Debian. >> sometimes, but not always. I prefer Reinstall, it's painless > The install? Sure. > Migrating all your configurations to the new system? Less so. So much less so that I'm often using a partition image taken from another installation instead of running the installer. The vast majority of my Testings are upgrades from Stable, which evolved from Testing, which evolved from Stable -- Evolution as taught in public schools, like religion, is based on faith, not on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”?
On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 21:54:41 +0200 Andrei POPESCU wrote: > On Du, 10 ian 21, 17:05:09, Joe wrote: > > On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 18:31:12 +0200 > > Andrei POPESCU wrote: > > > > > On Du, 10 ian 21, 04:44:03, Peter Ehlert wrote: > > > > > > > > On 1/9/21 5:04 PM, John Hasler wrote: > > > > > Carl Fink writes: > > > > > > I'm repeating the recommendation I've seen on this very > > > > > > list for decades. > > > > > It is an incorrect recommendation. Upgrading works well and > > > > > is supported and recommended by Debian. > > > > > > > > sometimes, but not always. I prefer Reinstall, it's painless > > > > > > The install? Sure. > > > > > > Migrating all your configurations to the new system? Less so. > > > > > > > Not just the configurations. Installing a couple of thousand > > packages will take some time, if you are unwilling to use a cloning > > method. > > With a few notable exceptions for me it's mostly enough to replicate > only the set of manually installed packages. > > Of course, on such occasions I do use the opportunity to review what > packages I still need, which usually takes more time than the actual > installation :D Indeed. I'm using the cacheing method of installing what I think I need, with the expectation of installing much more as actually required in the future. In Debian, it's fairly trivial to install a necessary package without holding up work for long. > > Eventually I intend to have that information in a configuration > management system (e.g. ansible), so that getting a new system > installed and fully configured is mostly automated. This is the second time I've installed this instance of sid, the only one that I currently use, in more than ten years. I don't feel it justifies too much effort to make the process quicker. -- Joe
Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”?
On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 21:39:29 +0200 Andrei POPESCU wrote: > On Du, 10 ian 21, 16:58:57, Joe wrote: > > > > I thought of the --get-selections route, but decided against it. > > There may be a few specific packages responsible for the problems. > > Certainly an exact clone is exactly what I don't want. So I'm > > spending a lot of time with apt, taking the opportunity to change a > > few packages, lose some of those I suspect I never use, and > > re-learning how to configure the larger packages. > > In case you have popularity-contest installed try > 'popcon-largest-unused' (relies on atime). > > > Did you know it is possible to get the latest Firefox into a state > > where it will not run, even after reinstalling? 'Replace/delete the > > profile', say the gurus, and all will be well. 'Run the Profile > > Manager'. The Profile Manager will not run because it can't find a > > profile. How stupid is that, when it is the means of creating a new > > profile? The fix was to copy the profile from the old installation, > > which I'm trying to avoid doing because some of the problems I'm > > having may well be due to damaged profiles or configurations. I > > want a shiny new sid, not something containing rusty bits of the > > old one. > > BTW, if I recall correctly the daily mini.iso in expert mode can be > used to install sid directly. This is documented somewhere, so search > engines should find it. > > I had no trouble installing sid, though I did it my usual way of installing a minimal stable, then upgrading, then piling on the software. Upgrading from stable to unstable has always worked for me if there is pretty much only the base system installed. The Firefox problem wasn't difficult to solve, but solving it shouldn't have been necessary. Start a new Firefox installation without a profile, and it will make a new one, or at least it always has, but not this time. I was making the point that reinstallation of a bare operating system is simple and quick, but rebuilding a machine with a lot of installed software is neither simple nor quick. My old workstation currently has over 4000 packages installed. Most of those are automatically installed, and I could probably lose 1000 by leaving out applications I don't use and their dependencies. It's still a couple of days' work to install and configure the rest. A few have configuration files scattered around the filesystem, like the many php.ini files. There are a few sillinesses, such as apache2 having a php module in which execution of .php files is explicitly disabled. Back to Google... If I was changing operating systems, upgrading would have been the way to go. But I was reinstalling the same version to clear out the cruft of many years, the old installation was a six-year-old --get-selections copy of the previous one, which would itself have been five to ten years old. Also, hopefully, clearing out whatever combination of damaged packages was causing the upgrade logjam. Certainly I have already installed the latest versions of at least two packages stuck in the logjam, so it should be worth the effort. There was something nasty in guile, and I have reinstalled packages that depend on guile with no problem. -- Joe
Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”?
On 11-01-2021 02:28, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > On Du, 10 ian 21, 05:27:26, Weaver wrote: >> >> Unless you're running a server, it's a good idea to be running SID, and >> then you don't have to worry about it anyway. > > Been there, done that. One can learn a lot, especially from the troubles > (which I got into literally days after the first time I upgraded to sid; > the story is in the d-u archives) ;) > > It takes *lots* of time to maintain. > > Eventually I stayed with stable, because it just works with minimal > maintenance. I rarely have a problem, and even when I do, time alone solves it, because the fix is already on the way. I've been running a small business on SID for years now. If it wasn't reliable and consistent enough, I would have changed an equal number of years ago. Agreed, Stable is the only alternative, because the fixes simply don't arrive in Testing fast enough, but I've never had to wait with SID. I've been using that since Libranet died. Any real problems stemmed from me, and my handling of the situation, so the fix was at hand. But I've never found myself spending more time fixing than was worth it. Cheers! Harry -- `We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false'. -- William Casey, CIA Director (first staff meeting, 1981)
Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”?
On Du, 10 ian 21, 17:05:09, Joe wrote: > On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 18:31:12 +0200 > Andrei POPESCU wrote: > > > On Du, 10 ian 21, 04:44:03, Peter Ehlert wrote: > > > > > > On 1/9/21 5:04 PM, John Hasler wrote: > > > > Carl Fink writes: > > > > > I'm repeating the recommendation I've seen on this very list for > > > > > decades. > > > > It is an incorrect recommendation. Upgrading works well and is > > > > supported and recommended by Debian. > > > > > > sometimes, but not always. I prefer Reinstall, it's painless > > > > The install? Sure. > > > > Migrating all your configurations to the new system? Less so. > > > > Not just the configurations. Installing a couple of thousand packages > will take some time, if you are unwilling to use a cloning method. With a few notable exceptions for me it's mostly enough to replicate only the set of manually installed packages. Of course, on such occasions I do use the opportunity to review what packages I still need, which usually takes more time than the actual installation :D Eventually I intend to have that information in a configuration management system (e.g. ansible), so that getting a new system installed and fully configured is mostly automated. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”?
On Du, 10 ian 21, 16:58:57, Joe wrote: > > I thought of the --get-selections route, but decided against it. There > may be a few specific packages responsible for the problems. Certainly > an exact clone is exactly what I don't want. So I'm spending a lot of > time with apt, taking the opportunity to change a few packages, lose > some of those I suspect I never use, and re-learning how to configure > the larger packages. In case you have popularity-contest installed try 'popcon-largest-unused' (relies on atime). > Did you know it is possible to get the latest Firefox into a state > where it will not run, even after reinstalling? 'Replace/delete the > profile', say the gurus, and all will be well. 'Run the Profile > Manager'. The Profile Manager will not run because it can't find a > profile. How stupid is that, when it is the means of creating a new > profile? The fix was to copy the profile from the old installation, > which I'm trying to avoid doing because some of the problems I'm having > may well be due to damaged profiles or configurations. I want a shiny > new sid, not something containing rusty bits of the old one. BTW, if I recall correctly the daily mini.iso in expert mode can be used to install sid directly. This is documented somewhere, so search engines should find it. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”?
On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 18:31:12 +0200 Andrei POPESCU wrote: > On Du, 10 ian 21, 04:44:03, Peter Ehlert wrote: > > > > On 1/9/21 5:04 PM, John Hasler wrote: > > > Carl Fink writes: > > > > I'm repeating the recommendation I've seen on this very list for > > > > decades. > > > It is an incorrect recommendation. Upgrading works well and is > > > supported and recommended by Debian. > > > > sometimes, but not always. I prefer Reinstall, it's painless > > The install? Sure. > > Migrating all your configurations to the new system? Less so. > Not just the configurations. Installing a couple of thousand packages will take some time, if you are unwilling to use a cloning method. -- Joe
Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”?
On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 13:46:53 + "Andrew M.A. Cater" wrote: > On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 05:27:26AM -0800, Weaver wrote: > > On 10-01-2021 22:44, Peter Ehlert wrote: > > > On 1/9/21 5:04 PM, John Hasler wrote: > > >> Carl Fink writes: > > >>> I'm repeating the recommendation I've seen on this very list for > > >>> decades. > > >> It is an incorrect recommendation. Upgrading works well and is > > >> supported and recommended by Debian. > > > > > > sometimes, but not always. I prefer Reinstall, it's painless > > > > > > https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUpgrade > > > > > > "Performing a release upgrade is not without risk. The upgrade may > > > fail, leaving the system in a non-functioning state. USERS SHOULD > > > BACKUP ALL DATA before attempting a release upgrade" > > > > Crossing the road is not without risk. > > Reinstalling, is not without risk. > > Neither is an upgrade. > > In any case, there are protocols to observe and, that done, there's > > little to fear. > > I haven't had trouble for years. > > update > > safe-upgrade > > Edit /etc/apt/sources.list > > update > > full-upgrade > > And you're home and hosed. > > > > Unless you're running a server, it's a good idea to be running SID, > > and then you don't have to worry about it anyway. > > > I'm sorry, but I'll respectfully disagree with the last suggestion: > Sid is Debian unstable (and Sid as the Toy Story-derived distribution > codename is named for the child next door who breaks toys) > > The difference between unstable / testing / stable comes down to rate > of change and consequent instability. > > Sid changes daily - there may be times when significant amounts of > packages are broken / uninstallable together - especially when > there's an upgrade to one of the major desktop environments or > something in the compilation chain which affects all packages > (perhaps a change in compiler / OpenSSL settings). > > If you are very experienced in Debian breakage / can afford to wait > until someone uploads fixes / it's a secondary machine that you are > not absolutely dependent on - fine. > > Testing is the next step down towards stable. It still changes daily, > but at a slower rate. There's no routine security patching. > Transitions may still mean that large numbers of packages are > uninstallable today. One a freeze kicks in and testing is being > frozen to become the next stable, that's a lot easier. > > Stable is pretty much unconditionally stable. There are regular > changes for security fixes: once in a while a packge may have to be > removed from Debian entirely because it becomes unsupportable. You > can, at your choice, follow from stable to oldstable to oldoldstable > as the distribution moves through various LTS stages. LTS is > supported by volunteers and (potentially) paid for support from > Freexian. > > Stable is a good choice day to day, it's regularly updated with > security fixes. Point releases occur every three months or so > wrapping up fixes in the last quarter. > > Routinely recommending sid may be counterproductive for relatively > inexperienced users. Similarly, you may have to fix problems if you > routinely use large quantities of -backports software. Stability vs > pace and brand new software is a neverending battle > > Just my opinion - as ever, your experience may well vary. > I'd agree. I'm in the process of rebuilding my sid workstation on another drive in the same machine. The installation is only about six years old, but it's slowly dying of software rot. There are something like 60 broken, un-upgradeable packages, including apt, and some of them have been that way for months. They are clearly not just waiting for the rest of a suite, or a bug-fix. A few formerly working programs are now not working. Nobody else seems to be complaining, so I've decided it's my system and it's time to clean it up. Yes, if it was just one or two packages, I'd fix them, but it isn't. I thought of the --get-selections route, but decided against it. There may be a few specific packages responsible for the problems. Certainly an exact clone is exactly what I don't want. So I'm spending a lot of time with apt, taking the opportunity to change a few packages, lose some of those I suspect I never use, and re-learning how to configure the larger packages. Did you know it is possible to get the latest Firefox into a state where it will not run, even after reinstalling? 'Replace/delete the profile', say the gurus, and all will be well. 'Run the Profile Manager'. The Profile Manager will not run because it can't find a profile. How stupid is that, when it is the means of creating a new profile? The fix was to copy the profile from the old installation, which I'm trying to avoid doing because some of the problems I'm having may well be due to damaged profiles or configurations. I want a shiny new sid, not something containing rusty bits of the old one. No, reinstall is not painless. Unless you have a perfe
Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”?
On Du, 10 ian 21, 04:44:03, Peter Ehlert wrote: > > On 1/9/21 5:04 PM, John Hasler wrote: > > Carl Fink writes: > > > I'm repeating the recommendation I've seen on this very list for > > > decades. > > It is an incorrect recommendation. Upgrading works well and is > > supported and recommended by Debian. > > sometimes, but not always. I prefer Reinstall, it's painless The install? Sure. Migrating all your configurations to the new system? Less so. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”?
On Du, 10 ian 21, 05:27:26, Weaver wrote: > > Unless you're running a server, it's a good idea to be running SID, and > then you don't have to worry about it anyway. Been there, done that. One can learn a lot, especially from the troubles (which I got into literally days after the first time I upgraded to sid; the story is in the d-u archives) ;) It takes *lots* of time to maintain. Eventually I stayed with stable, because it just works with minimal maintenance. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”?
On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 05:27:26AM -0800, Weaver wrote: > On 10-01-2021 22:44, Peter Ehlert wrote: > > On 1/9/21 5:04 PM, John Hasler wrote: > >> Carl Fink writes: > >>> I'm repeating the recommendation I've seen on this very list for > >>> decades. > >> It is an incorrect recommendation. Upgrading works well and is > >> supported and recommended by Debian. > > > > sometimes, but not always. I prefer Reinstall, it's painless > > > > https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUpgrade > > > > "Performing a release upgrade is not without risk. The upgrade may > > fail, leaving the system in a non-functioning state. USERS SHOULD > > BACKUP ALL DATA before attempting a release upgrade" > > Crossing the road is not without risk. > Reinstalling, is not without risk. > Neither is an upgrade. > In any case, there are protocols to observe and, that done, there's > little to fear. > I haven't had trouble for years. > update > safe-upgrade > Edit /etc/apt/sources.list > update > full-upgrade > And you're home and hosed. > > Unless you're running a server, it's a good idea to be running SID, and > then you don't have to worry about it anyway. > Cheers! > Harry. > -- > `We'll know our disinformation program is complete when > everything the American public believes is false'. > -- William Casey, CIA Director (first staff meeting, 1981) > I'm sorry, but I'll respectfully disagree with the last suggestion: Sid is Debian unstable (and Sid as the Toy Story-derived distribution codename is named for the child next door who breaks toys) The difference between unstable / testing / stable comes down to rate of change and consequent instability. Sid changes daily - there may be times when significant amounts of packages are broken / uninstallable together - especially when there's an upgrade to one of the major desktop environments or something in the compilation chain which affects all packages (perhaps a change in compiler / OpenSSL settings). If you are very experienced in Debian breakage / can afford to wait until someone uploads fixes / it's a secondary machine that you are not absolutely dependent on - fine. Testing is the next step down towards stable. It still changes daily, but at a slower rate. There's no routine security patching. Transitions may still mean that large numbers of packages are uninstallable today. One a freeze kicks in and testing is being frozen to become the next stable, that's a lot easier. Stable is pretty much unconditionally stable. There are regular changes for security fixes: once in a while a packge may have to be removed from Debian entirely because it becomes unsupportable. You can, at your choice, follow from stable to oldstable to oldoldstable as the distribution moves through various LTS stages. LTS is supported by volunteers and (potentially) paid for support from Freexian. Stable is a good choice day to day, it's regularly updated with security fixes. Point releases occur every three months or so wrapping up fixes in the last quarter. Routinely recommending sid may be counterproductive for relatively inexperienced users. Similarly, you may have to fix problems if you routinely use large quantities of -backports software. Stability vs pace and brand new software is a neverending battle Just my opinion - as ever, your experience may well vary. All the very best, as ever, Andy C
Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”?
On 10-01-2021 22:44, Peter Ehlert wrote: > On 1/9/21 5:04 PM, John Hasler wrote: >> Carl Fink writes: >>> I'm repeating the recommendation I've seen on this very list for >>> decades. >> It is an incorrect recommendation. Upgrading works well and is >> supported and recommended by Debian. > > sometimes, but not always. I prefer Reinstall, it's painless > > https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUpgrade > > "Performing a release upgrade is not without risk. The upgrade may > fail, leaving the system in a non-functioning state. USERS SHOULD > BACKUP ALL DATA before attempting a release upgrade" Crossing the road is not without risk. Reinstalling, is not without risk. Neither is an upgrade. In any case, there are protocols to observe and, that done, there's little to fear. I haven't had trouble for years. update safe-upgrade Edit /etc/apt/sources.list update full-upgrade And you're home and hosed. Unless you're running a server, it's a good idea to be running SID, and then you don't have to worry about it anyway. Cheers! Harry. -- `We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false'. -- William Casey, CIA Director (first staff meeting, 1981)
Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”?
On 1/9/21 5:04 PM, John Hasler wrote: Carl Fink writes: I'm repeating the recommendation I've seen on this very list for decades. It is an incorrect recommendation. Upgrading works well and is supported and recommended by Debian. sometimes, but not always. I prefer Reinstall, it's painless https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUpgrade "Performing a release upgrade is not without risk. The upgrade may fail, leaving the system in a non-functioning state. USERS SHOULD BACKUP ALL DATA before attempting a release upgrade"
Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”?
On Sb, 09 ian 21, 19:58:06, Carl Fink wrote: > On Sat, 2021-01-09 at 23:39 +0100, deloptes wrote: > > Carl Fink wrote: > > > > > The recommendation is to reinstall instead. It's easier and doesn't > > > take much more time. > > > > Please do not share your personal thoughts as recommendations. I > > would never > > reinstall my system. > > Please don't try to read my mind. I'm repeating the recommendation I've > seen on this very list for decades. This list is mostly read by other Debian Users and some Debian Members. Unless stated otherwise any recommendations you read here are personal opinions. Official Debian communication is done only via dedicated channels (which debian-user isn't). Debian goes to great lengths to support and document upgrading between releases. It also provides a very flexible installer for new installations. The choice between upgrade and reinstall can depend on a lot of factors and depending on the situation there may be good reasons for either of them. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”?
On Sb, 09 ian 21, 15:25:17, William Torrez Corea wrote: > My version actually is Debian 4.19.146-1 (2020-09-17) x86_64 GNU/Linux. > Please show the output of 'apt policy'. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”?
On Sat 09 Jan 2021 at 15:25:17 (-0600), William Torrez Corea wrote: > My version actually is Debian 4.19.146-1 (2020-09-17) x86_64 GNU/Linux. You *are* running buster: that's the *kernel* version. Mine looks like this: $ uname -a Linux axis 4.19.0-13-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.160-2 (2020-11-28) x86_64 GNU/Linux $ When this kernel (linux-image-4.19.0-13-amd64, 4.19.160-2) was upgraded here (Dec 5), it replaced 4.19.0-12-amd64, 4.19.152-1, and I purged the version before that (linux-image-4.19.0-11-amd64, 4.19.146-1), which is yours. So it looks as if you're two kernel versions behind. You might not be aware that upgraded kernels are seen as new packages, because the version number is part of the package name. So an "ordinary" upgrade should leave the old version untouched. Three commands (as root) that would rectify this are, in order: # apt-get update # apt-get upgrade # apt-get dist-upgrade The first updates the packages list. The second upgrades most packages that need it, and tells you that it is holding back the kernel package(s). When you run the third of these, check from the output that the system is only installing a package like linux-image-… (and perhaps linux-headers), and that nothing is being removed. If that's not the case, repost the output here. Cheers, David.
Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”?
On Sat, 2021-01-09 at 13:26 -0800, William Torrez Corea wrote: > My version actually is Debian 4.19.146-1 (2020-09-17) x86_64 > GNU/Linux. > See this: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUpgrade -- john
Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”?
Carl Fink writes: > I'm repeating the recommendation I've seen on this very list for > decades. It is an incorrect recommendation. Upgrading works well and is supported and recommended by Debian. -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA
Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”?
On Sat, 2021-01-09 at 23:39 +0100, deloptes wrote: > Carl Fink wrote: > > > The recommendation is to reinstall instead. It's easier and doesn't > > take much more time. > > Please do not share your personal thoughts as recommendations. I > would never > reinstall my system. Please don't try to read my mind. I'm repeating the recommendation I've seen on this very list for decades.
Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian ???buster????
William Torrez Corea wrote: > My version actually is Debian 4.19.146-1 (2020-09-17) x86_64 GNU/Linux. > Well, that's a Buster or buster-backports kernel. What does /etc/debian-version say? What are the contents of /etc/apt/sources.list ? -dsr-
Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”?
Carl Fink wrote: > The recommendation is to reinstall instead. It's easier and doesn't > take much more time. Please do not share your personal thoughts as recommendations. I would never reinstall my system. The OP is asking specifically for help on upgrade and obviously showing the kernel version. https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUpgrade
Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”?
William Torrez Corea writes: > My version actually is Debian 4.19.146-1 (2020-09-17) x86_64 GNU/Linux. It seems you might already be running Buster although that looks like a kernel version. You can check with lsb_release -d or the GUI program hardinfo.
Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”?
On Sat, 2021-01-09 at 15:25 -0600, William Torrez Corea wrote: > My version actually is Debian 4.19.146-1 (2020-09-17) x86_64 > GNU/Linux. The recommendation is to reinstall instead. It's easier and doesn't take much more time. -- Carl Finkc...@finknetwork.com https://reasonablyliterate.com https://nitpicking.com If you want to make a point, somebody will take the point and stab you with it. -Kenne Estes
