Re: test sent date details

[keithrbau]

It has worked

All the best

Keith Bainbridge

keithr...@gmail.com
keith.bainbridge.3...@gmail.com
+61 (0)447 667 468

UTC + 10:00

On 18/6/24 17:56, Keith Bainbridge wrote:


All the best

Keith Bainbridge

keith.bainbridge.3...@gmail.com
+61 (0)447 667 468

UTC + 10:00

Re: Test

[tomas]

On Fri, Dec 22, 2023 at 05:32:04PM -0500, Jeffrey Walton wrote:

[...]

> Perhaps you should use debian-lists-test,
> .

**THANK YOU**

(I know, I'm breaking my promise of bowing out of this thread,
but this is just the kind of constructive behaviour I know and
love in this mailing list)

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: Test

[tomas]

On Fri, Dec 22, 2023 at 09:08:11PM +, Tixy wrote:
> On Fri, 2023-12-22 at 12:15 -0500, Pocket wrote:
> > This is a test of the emergency broadcast system
> 
> Please stop spamming the 1000 or so people subscribed to this list.

Folks: the OP might be a bit of a challenge to some of us (I
don't think they are bad intentioned; that's irrelevant here).

But all of you jumping at the occasion of such a thread and
amplificating things don't make things better, that's for
sure. Not to talk about those clamouring for some punishment
(are we in the Middle ages or what?).

You have already observed that the OP wants to have
their last word. Let 'em (sometimes) have it and let this
useless thread *die* already.

Sometimes it's just better to shut up. Even if one thinks to be
100% right [1].

Thanks (and I'll bow out of this one :-)

Cheers

[1] https://xkcd.com/386/
-- 
t


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Re: Test

[fjd]

On Sat, 23 Dec 2023, Vít Smolík wrote:

Should someone report the mail to the mailmasters as stated in here: 
https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/index.en.html


Or is it too small of an issue to even report?


it's teensy.

fjd

--
Davis

Verbum sat sapienti.

Re: Test

[Vít Smolík]

Vít Smolík (12023-12-23):

Yeah, it is the Code of Conduct, sorry, didn't realize that. Could there be
some SpamAssassin config that we could send to the list-masters, that would
catch theese kinds of messages?

Not without catching some legitimate questions and answers too. “Test”
is a very common word when diagnosing problems.

The best way to deal with that is to ignore the rare honest mistakes and
ban deliberate repeat offenders.

Regards,


Should someone report the mail to the mailmasters as stated in here: 
https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/index.en.html


Or is it too small of an issue to even report?

--
May the Force be with you,
Vít Smolík.



OpenPGP_0x65785543AA32C45E.asc
Description: OpenPGP public key


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Re: Test

[Nicolas George]

Vít Smolík (12023-12-23):
> Yeah, it is the Code of Conduct, sorry, didn't realize that. Could there be
> some SpamAssassin config that we could send to the list-masters, that would
> catch theese kinds of messages?

Not without catching some legitimate questions and answers too. “Test”
is a very common word when diagnosing problems.

The best way to deal with that is to ignore the rare honest mistakes and
ban deliberate repeat offenders.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George


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Re: Test

[Vít Smolík]

Vít Smolík (12023-12-23):

I think there should be added something in the rules stating that you can't
use this mailing list for testing your email client, it's pretty annoying.

It is the very first rule:

“Non-constructive or off-topic messages, along with other abuses, are
not welcome.”

And for people who pretend they did notice, it also the seventh rule:

“Do not send "test" messages to determine whether your mail client is
working.”

At this point, people should ignore that person. I could suggest sending
them answers that seem legit but will cause them to break their
computer, but that would not be nice to people stumbling upon the
archives (but probably no worse than the average Ubuntu webforum).

Regards,


Yeah, it is the Code of Conduct, sorry, didn't realize that. Could there 
be some SpamAssassin config that we could send to the list-masters, that 
would catch theese kinds of messages?


--
May the Force be with you,
Vít Smolík.



OpenPGP_0x65785543AA32C45E.asc
Description: OpenPGP public key


OpenPGP_signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Test

[Nicolas George]

Vít Smolík (12023-12-23):
> I think there should be added something in the rules stating that you can't
> use this mailing list for testing your email client, it's pretty annoying.

It is the very first rule:

“Non-constructive or off-topic messages, along with other abuses, are
not welcome.”

And for people who pretend they did notice, it also the seventh rule:

“Do not send "test" messages to determine whether your mail client is
working.”

At this point, people should ignore that person. I could suggest sending
them answers that seem legit but will cause them to break their
computer, but that would not be nice to people stumbling upon the
archives (but probably no worse than the average Ubuntu webforum).

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George


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Re: Test

[Vít Smolík]

On Fri, Dec 22, 2023 at 4:37 PM Pocket  wrote:

On 12/22/23 16:08, Tixy wrote:

On Fri, 2023-12-22 at 12:15 -0500, Pocket wrote:

This is a test of the emergency broadcast system

Please stop spamming the 1000 or so people subscribed to this list.

I am not spamming this list I am trying to determine if my email setup
is working.

Perhaps you should use debian-lists-test,
.

The complete list of Debian mailing lists is available at
.

Jeff
I think there should be added something in the rules stating that you 
can't use this mailing list for testing your email client, it's pretty 
annoying. But, that isn't up to me.


--
May the Force be with you,
Vít Smolík.



OpenPGP_0x65785543AA32C45E.asc
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Re: Test

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Fri, Dec 22, 2023 at 4:37 PM Pocket  wrote:
>
> On 12/22/23 16:08, Tixy wrote:
> > On Fri, 2023-12-22 at 12:15 -0500, Pocket wrote:
> >> This is a test of the emergency broadcast system
> >
> > Please stop spamming the 1000 or so people subscribed to this list.
>
> I am not spamming this list I am trying to determine if my email setup
> is working.

Perhaps you should use debian-lists-test,
.

The complete list of Debian mailing lists is available at
.

Jeff

Re: Test

[Tom Furie]

Pocket  writes:

> On 12/22/23 16:08, Tixy wrote:
>> On Fri, 2023-12-22 at 12:15 -0500, Pocket wrote:
>>> This is a test of the emergency broadcast system
>> Please stop spamming the 1000 or so people subscribed to this list.
>
> I am not spamming this list I am trying to determine if my email setup
> is working.

We have no desire to be subject to your testing. Test somewhere
appropriate, not on a widespread mailing list.

Re: Test

[Pocket]

On 12/22/23 16:08, Tixy wrote:

On Fri, 2023-12-22 at 12:15 -0500, Pocket wrote:

This is a test of the emergency broadcast system


Please stop spamming the 1000 or so people subscribed to this list.



I am not spamming this list I am trying to determine if my email setup 
is working.

Re: Test

[Lee]

On Fri, Dec 22, 2023 at 4:08 PM Tixy  wrote:
>
> On Fri, 2023-12-22 at 12:15 -0500, Pocket wrote:
> > This is a test of the emergency broadcast system
>
> Please stop spamming the 1000 or so people subscribed to this list.

Would forwarding his message to commun...@debian.org and asking for a
one month suspension violate the mailing list rules?

I think no, but that might be wishful thinking..

Re: Test

[Tixy]

On Fri, 2023-12-22 at 12:15 -0500, Pocket wrote:
> This is a test of the emergency broadcast system

Please stop spamming the 1000 or so people subscribed to this list.

-- 
Tixy

Re: Test ECC memory

[Dan Ritter]

krys...@ibse.cz wrote: 
> Dan Ritter wrote:
> > The kernel announces readiness during boot with:
> > dmesg:[   18.331561] EDAC amd64: Node 0: DRAM ECC enabled.
> > 
> > and then an event looks like this:
> > Message from syslogd@HOSTNAME at Jan 25 15:05:51 ...
> > kernel:[5964975.397283] [Hardware Error]: Corrected error, no
> > action required.
> > 
> > Message from syslogd@HOSTNAME at Jan 25 15:05:51 ...
> > kernel:[5964975.406226] [Hardware Error]: CPU:0 (15:2:0)
> > MC4_STATUS[-|CE|MiscV|-|AddrV|-|-|CECC]: 0x9c04400040080a13
> > 
> > Message from syslogd@HOSTNAME at Jan 25 15:05:51 ...
> > kernel:[5964975.418574] [Hardware Error]: Error Addr:
> > 0x001ed405ef50
> > 
> > Message from syslogd@HOSTNAME at Jan 25 15:05:51 ...
> > kernel:[5964975.426919] [Hardware Error]: MC4 Error (node 0):
> > DRAM ECC error detected on the NB.
> > 
> > Message from syslogd@HOSTNAME at Jan 25 15:05:51 ...
> > kernel:[5964975.437370] [Hardware Error]: cache level: L3/GEN,
> > mem/io: MEM, mem-tx: RD, part-proc: RES (no timeout)
> 
> Do you keep track of how often these errors occur?

Yes, but I'm not allowed to give much more precision than I've
already said. Rare, unless you have a failing DIMM.

-dsr-

Re: Test ECC memory

[krystof]

Dan Ritter wrote:
> The kernel announces readiness during boot with:
> dmesg:[   18.331561] EDAC amd64: Node 0: DRAM ECC enabled.
> 
> and then an event looks like this:
> Message from syslogd@HOSTNAME at Jan 25 15:05:51 ...
> kernel:[5964975.397283] [Hardware Error]: Corrected error, no
> action required.
> 
> Message from syslogd@HOSTNAME at Jan 25 15:05:51 ...
> kernel:[5964975.406226] [Hardware Error]: CPU:0 (15:2:0)
> MC4_STATUS[-|CE|MiscV|-|AddrV|-|-|CECC]: 0x9c04400040080a13
> 
> Message from syslogd@HOSTNAME at Jan 25 15:05:51 ...
> kernel:[5964975.418574] [Hardware Error]: Error Addr:
> 0x001ed405ef50
> 
> Message from syslogd@HOSTNAME at Jan 25 15:05:51 ...
> kernel:[5964975.426919] [Hardware Error]: MC4 Error (node 0):
> DRAM ECC error detected on the NB.
> 
> Message from syslogd@HOSTNAME at Jan 25 15:05:51 ...
> kernel:[5964975.437370] [Hardware Error]: cache level: L3/GEN,
> mem/io: MEM, mem-tx: RD, part-proc: RES (no timeout)

Do you keep track of how often these errors occur?

Re: Test ECC memory

[Dan Ritter]

Anssi Saari wrote: 
> Dan Ritter  writes:
> 
> > We see ECC errors irregularly and infrequently on both Intel and
> > AMD CPUs.
> 
> How/where do you see those on a Debian system? I looked into this
> briefly but didn't get anywhere.


The kernel announces readiness during boot with:
dmesg:[   18.331561] EDAC amd64: Node 0: DRAM ECC enabled.

and then an event looks like this:
Message from syslogd@HOSTNAME at Jan 25 15:05:51 ...
kernel:[5964975.397283] [Hardware Error]: Corrected error, no
action required.

Message from syslogd@HOSTNAME at Jan 25 15:05:51 ...
kernel:[5964975.406226] [Hardware Error]: CPU:0 (15:2:0)
MC4_STATUS[-|CE|MiscV|-|AddrV|-|-|CECC]: 0x9c04400040080a13

Message from syslogd@HOSTNAME at Jan 25 15:05:51 ...
kernel:[5964975.418574] [Hardware Error]: Error Addr:
0x001ed405ef50

Message from syslogd@HOSTNAME at Jan 25 15:05:51 ...
kernel:[5964975.426919] [Hardware Error]: MC4 Error (node 0):
DRAM ECC error detected on the NB.

Message from syslogd@HOSTNAME at Jan 25 15:05:51 ...
kernel:[5964975.437370] [Hardware Error]: cache level: L3/GEN,
mem/io: MEM, mem-tx: RD, part-proc: RES (no timeout)


If you see a bunch of these, you want to install edac-utils and
run it to see if you have a bad DIMM.

-dsr-

Re: Test ECC memory

[Anssi Saari]

krys...@ibse.cz writes:

> PS: Some commercial memtests should allegedly be able to inject ECC
> errors (for example the one from passmark), have anyone tried those?

I've tried Passmark's memory tester (the commercial one which includes
ECC error injection), but I've had no luck. My desktop has issues with
mouse and keyboard support in it and Grub as well, it's so bad it's
practically impossible to do anything. It's my only "modern" system with
a Ryzen 5600X and ECC RAM.

My router and file server have ECC RAM but those systems are BIOS only
and I can't boot Passmark's thing on them since it requires UEFI. I have
an oldish Intel laptop with ECC RAM also which is apparently the only
one of my computers where Passmark's thing could run. Haven't tried it
though.

Re: Test ECC memory

[Anssi Saari]

Dan Ritter  writes:

> We see ECC errors irregularly and infrequently on both Intel and
> AMD CPUs.

How/where do you see those on a Debian system? I looked into this
briefly but didn't get anywhere.

Re: Test ECC memory

[krystof]

Dne úterý 21. února 2023 1:20:50 CET, DdB napsal(a):
> Lucky me, i just looked up my hardware (Dual CPU on server MB):
> 
> > https://versus.com/en/amd-epyc-7282
> > Supports ECC memory

Yes, but it is sad that you have to search for this information somewhere else 
than on vendors website. But this is not the only thing AMD not saying to us - 
for example when using 4 dual rank DIMM, Ryzen can run them only at 2666MT/s 
intead of 3200MT/s, which is information I found only on ASRsocks websites and 
manuals. One would think that AMD will write it somewhere since memory 
controller is part of CPU, but again I have never seen it anywhere in thier 
specsheets.

Re: Test ECC memory

[DdB]

Am 20.02.2023 um 23:48 schrieb krys...@ibse.cz:
> I am sorry, it was little missleading - not that they can not support them, 
> but there is no official document that would state so. The only official 
> specsheet I saw that explicitely mentions ECC support is this one: 
> https://www.amd.com/en/products/specifications/embedded

Lucky me, i just looked up my hardware (Dual CPU on server MB):

> https://versus.com/en/amd-epyc-7282
> Supports ECC memory

I conclude: at least the hw *should* be able to ... if i manage to set
it up properly ;-)

Re: Test ECC memory

[Dan Ritter]

krys...@ibse.cz wrote: 
> Dear Debian community,
> we recently started using AMD Ryzen CPUs, ASRock Rack motherboards and 
> Kingston unbuffered ECC DIMMs for our small bussiness servers. All the 
> servers are running on ZFS for which ECC memory is recommended. So I naively 
> tried to test it actually works. I read EVERY disscussion on EVERY forum I 
> was able to find (and there is a lot of them, believe me), but I did not find 
> a satisfying answer. According to the legendary tweet from AMD (for which is 
> link in every discussion), the Ryzen CPUs should support ECC memory, but it 
> is not tested feature since they are consumer CPUs. Funny thing is, that 
> according to their spec sheets even EPYC class CPUs do not support them (only 
> CPUs with stated ECC support I found are Ryzen Embedded ones - for example 
> the V1605B in UDOO Bolt). Nevertheless system reports it works -  dmidecode, 
> lshw, kernel loads driver and EDAC MC is present in 
> /sys/devices/system/edac/mc, even memtest86+ v6.0 and above reports ECC 
> memory. In forum discussions Intel guys are saying that correctable ECC 
> errors are relatively common - stated counts vary, but I got the impression 
> that at least one in a week should appear. And our virtual hypervisor running 
> over half a year with more than 80% memory utilization has not a single one, 
> niether in sysfs nor in EUFI event log. I understand that the errror count 
> rises with height above mean sea level due to solar radiation and we are in 
> 246m altitude, but at least one error would be nice.
> The only thing I had success with was memory overclocking - I lowered timing 
> as low as possible for system to POST and when Debian was running, it 
> reported corectable errors from different memory regions (13 during 30 
> minutes). Rising memory frequency did not work. But all this was done on Asus 
> motherboard, with same memory and CPU however. When I change any memory 
> related setting on ASRock Rack motherboard, it will not POST.
> In kernel documentation is described that Intel CPUs have ability to inject 
> errors for driver testing but I did not find anything like it for AMD. Does 
> anyone know any way to test that ECC works without breaking the system 
> before? Thank you for your answers.
> 
> PS: Some commercial memtests should allegedly be able to inject ECC errors 
> (for example the one from passmark), have anyone tried those?


We see ECC errors irregularly and infrequently on both Intel and
AMD CPUs. One a week would be very concerning if we're talking
about one system, but not too concerning if we are discussing a
thousand systems.

-dsr-

Re: Test ECC memory

[krystof]

DdB wrote:
> Did you really read, that epycs cannot support ECC?
> At least i can say, that my pools did not report any faults (which ofc
> would be several layers above ecc) either in 3 years, which did help in
> falling asleep. ;-)

I am sorry, it was little missleading - not that they can not support them, but 
there is no official document that would state so. The only official specsheet 
I saw that explicitely mentions ECC support is this one: 
https://www.amd.com/en/products/specifications/embedded

Re: Test ECC memory

[gene heskett]

On 2/20/23 13:12, John Hasler wrote:

Tape the Americium-241 button out of a smoke detector to a RAM chip.


Ooooh, that would be nasty ;o(> But it ought to do the trick.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: Test ECC memory

[DdB]

Am 20.02.2023 um 18:42 schrieb krys...@ibse.cz:
> Dear Debian community,
> we recently started using AMD Ryzen CPUs, ASRock Rack motherboards and 
> Kingston unbuffered ECC DIMMs for our small bussiness servers. All the 
> servers are running on ZFS for which ECC memory is recommended. So I naively 
> tried to test it actually works. I read EVERY disscussion on EVERY forum I 
> was able to find (and there is a lot of them, believe me), but I did not find 
> a satisfying answer. According to the legendary tweet from AMD (for which is 
> link in every discussion), the Ryzen CPUs should support ECC memory, but it 
> is not tested feature since they are consumer CPUs. Funny thing is, that 
> according to their spec sheets even EPYC class CPUs do not support them (only 
> CPUs with stated ECC support I found are Ryzen Embedded ones - for example 
> the V1605B in UDOO Bolt). Nevertheless system reports it works -  dmidecode, 
> lshw, kernel loads driver and EDAC MC is present in 
> /sys/devices/system/edac/mc, even memtest86+ v6.0 and above reports ECC 
> memory. In forum discussions Intel guys are saying that correctable ECC 
> errors are relatively common - stated counts vary, but I got the impression 
> that at least one in a week should appear. And our virtual hypervisor running 
> over half a year with more than 80% memory utilization has not a single one, 
> niether in sysfs nor in EUFI event log. I understand that the errror count 
> rises with height above mean sea level due to solar radiation and we are in 
> 246m altitude, but at least one error would be nice.
> The only thing I had success with was memory overclocking - I lowered timing 
> as low as possible for system to POST and when Debian was running, it 
> reported corectable errors from different memory regions (13 during 30 
> minutes). Rising memory frequency did not work. But all this was done on Asus 
> motherboard, with same memory and CPU however. When I change any memory 
> related setting on ASRock Rack motherboard, it will not POST.
> In kernel documentation is described that Intel CPUs have ability to inject 
> errors for driver testing but I did not find anything like it for AMD. Does 
> anyone know any way to test that ECC works without breaking the system 
> before? Thank you for your answers.
> 
> PS: Some commercial memtests should allegedly be able to inject ECC errors 
> (for example the one from passmark), have anyone tried those?
> 
> Best regards,
> Kryštof
> 
just saying:

i am on the same ship ... (ZFS + AMD (2 EPYCs in my case) + ECC + not
verified behavior)
Previously, i was using Intel, where i got edac to work somehow, and it
even caught some correctable errors. But since i learned, that edac went
out of business and dmidecode shall be used to get info from hardware
interrupt caused by ECC memory, i have never seen one, and as a less
than experienced debian user, i got stuck on other problems, thus forgot
to pursue this issue somehow. Now, i am very much interested in the
hints/replies you may get, in order to finally test/straighten my
infrastructure.

Did you really read, that epycs cannot support ECC?
At least i can say, that my pools did not report any faults (which ofc
would be several layers above ecc) either in 3 years, which did help in
falling asleep. ;-)

Anyone experiencing some wind in his sails while sailing along similar
paths?

... Would be welcome ...
DdB

Re: Test ECC memory

[John Hasler]

> Hi, thank you for the answer. Honestly it came to my mind I could make
> some kind of neutrino emitter, since according to most articles it is
> the main source of ECC errors,

Neutrons, not neutrinos.  The latter rarely interact with matter at
all.  A neutron source is fairly difficult to make.

> In school I was tought that a sheet of paper is enough to absorb alpha
> rays - will it penetrate a chip package?

Some will.  Attenuation of such radiation is proportional to thickness
and the level at the surface of the button, while too low to be
dangerous, is much higher than background.

A reference from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECC_memory :

https://web.archive.org/web/20131021190327/http://pdf.yuri.se/files/art/2.pdf
-- 
John Hasler 
j...@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: Test ECC memory

[John Hasler]

Tape the Americium-241 button out of a smoke detector to a RAM chip.
-- 
John Hasler 
j...@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: test

[antoine . valmer]

On Wednesday 27 April 2022 08:54:52 Rémi Demarthe wrote:
> Le lundi 25 avril 2022 à 19:01 +0200, awache...@gmail.com a écrit :
> > On Monday 25 April 2022 17:56:36 Rémi Demarthe wrote:
> > > Le lundi 25 avril 2022 à 11:13 +0200, ajh-valmer a écrit :
> > Quel serveur de mails indique que mon mail est un spam ?
> Le mail est mis en spam côté client par évolution.
> Il ajoute les X-Spam-Flag et X-Spam-Level.

> Pour X-GND-Spam-Score et X-GND-Status, cela serait lié à un filtrage
> sieve qui si je ne m'abuse à lieu lors de la réception du serveur IMAP.
> Je n'arrive pas à comprendre pourquoi tu atteri dans les spam au regard
> des sources du message :
Oui, c'est très curieux !

> As-tu essayé les testeur de spam comme https://www.mail-tester.com/ ? :
Oui, à l'instant, il répond systématiquement que mon mail n'a pas été reçu,
SMTP l'ayant refusé, quelquesoit le smtp utilisé.

Synthèse :
1) smtp.bbox.fr , smtp.free.fr : refus immédiat,
respectivement "policy reason" et "spam detected"

2) smtp.gmail.com : mail envoyé mais pas reçu au destinataire.

3) Envoi à la ML debian avec smtp.gmail.com, 
aucun mail en retour à moi mais mail reçu sur la ML.

Re: test

[Rémi Demarthe]

Bonjour,

Le lundi 25 avril 2022 à 19:01 +0200, awache...@gmail.com a écrit :
> On Monday 25 April 2022 17:56:36 Rémi Demarthe wrote:
> > Le lundi 25 avril 2022 à 11:13 +0200, ajh-valmer a écrit :
> > > test ml
> 
> > Chez moi sur evolution le message est considéré comme spam.
> > Dans les sources :
> > X-Spam-Flag: yes
> > X-Spam-Level: ***
> > X-GND-Spam-Score: 290
> > X-GND-Status: SPAM
> > En espérant que cela puisse aider.
> 
> Oui, ça m'aide, merci.
> 
> Déjà, je n'ai pas reçu mon propre message depuis la liste,
> alors que c'est un nouveau mail créé ce matin...
> Donc à peine créé il est déjà bloqué.
> 
> Quel serveur de mails indique que mon mail est un spam ?
> 
Le mail est mis en spam côté client par évolution.
Il ajoute les X-Spam-Flag et X-Spam-Level.

Pour X-GND-Spam-Score et X-GND-Status, cela serait lié à un filtrage
sieve qui si je ne m'abuse à lieu lors de la réception du serveur IMAP.
Je n'arrive pas à comprendre pourquoi tu atteri dans les spam au regard
des sources du message.


> J'utilise smtp.bbox.fr, immédiatement je reçois ce message :
> "Le serveur a répondu : «5.7.1 Rejected for policy reason»
> Avec d'autres smtp, le destinataire ne reçoit rien,
> sinon une déclaration de spam.
> Bref, ça devient inquétiant, je ne sais quoi faire.
> Bonne soirée
> 

As-tu essayé les testeur de spam comme https://www.mail-tester.com/ ?

Bonne journée,
Crodialement,
--
Rémi Demarthe

Re: test

[Romulus 1er]

Test ok

Le lun. 25 avr. 2022 à 19:27,  a écrit :

> On Monday 25 April 2022 17:56:36 Rémi Demarthe wrote:
> > Le lundi 25 avril 2022 à 11:13 +0200, ajh-valmer a écrit :
> > > test ml
>
> > Chez moi sur evolution le message est considéré comme spam.
> > Dans les sources :
> > X-Spam-Flag: yes
> > X-Spam-Level: ***
> > X-GND-Spam-Score: 290
> > X-GND-Status: SPAM
> > En espérant que cela puisse aider.
>
> Oui, ça m'aide, merci.
>
> Déjà, je n'ai pas reçu mon propre message depuis la liste,
> alors que c'est un nouveau mail créé ce matin...
> Donc à peine créé il est déjà bloqué.
>
> Quel serveur de mails indique que mon mail est un spam ?
>
> J'utilise smtp.bbox.fr, immédiatement je reçois ce message :
> "Le serveur a répondu : «5.7.1 Rejected for policy reason»
> Avec d'autres smtp, le destinataire ne reçoit rien,
> sinon une déclaration de spam.
> Bref, ça devient inquétiant, je ne sais quoi faire.
> Bonne soirée
>
>

Re: test

[awache322]

On Monday 25 April 2022 17:56:36 Rémi Demarthe wrote:
> Le lundi 25 avril 2022 à 11:13 +0200, ajh-valmer a écrit :
> > test ml

> Chez moi sur evolution le message est considéré comme spam.
> Dans les sources :
> X-Spam-Flag: yes
> X-Spam-Level: ***
> X-GND-Spam-Score: 290
> X-GND-Status: SPAM
> En espérant que cela puisse aider.

Oui, ça m'aide, merci.

Déjà, je n'ai pas reçu mon propre message depuis la liste,
alors que c'est un nouveau mail créé ce matin...
Donc à peine créé il est déjà bloqué.

Quel serveur de mails indique que mon mail est un spam ?

J'utilise smtp.bbox.fr, immédiatement je reçois ce message :
"Le serveur a répondu : «5.7.1 Rejected for policy reason»
Avec d'autres smtp, le destinataire ne reçoit rien,
sinon une déclaration de spam.
Bref, ça devient inquétiant, je ne sais quoi faire.
Bonne soirée

Re: test

[Rémi Demarthe]

Bonjour,

Le lundi 25 avril 2022 à 11:13 +0200, ajh-valmer a écrit :
> test ml
> 

Chez moi sur evolution le message est considéré comme spam.
Dans les sources :

X-Spam-Flag: yes
X-Spam-Level: ***
X-GND-Spam-Score: 290
X-GND-Status: SPAM

En espérant que cela puisse aider.

--
Rémi Demarthe

Re: test

[ajh . valmer]

On Monday 25 April 2022 12:01:23 Fernand COSTA wrote:
> vu ;)
> Le 25/04/2022 à 11:13, ajh-valmer a écrit :
> > test ml

Merci.

Malgré mon nouveau mail ,
(l'ancien  posant problème)
je ne reçois pas le mail que j'envoie à la ML Debian en retour.

Re: test

[Fernand COSTA]

vu ;)


Le 25/04/2022 à 11:13, ajh-valmer a écrit :

test ml

Re: Test unitaire de réseau

[Olivier]

J'ai trouvé Flent, qui a l'air très (trop ?) complet et est déjà empaqueté.

[1] https://flent.org/index.html

Le lun. 7 févr. 2022 à 15:29, Pierre Couderc  a écrit :
>
> LXD peut être sympa pour cela, en regroupant plusieurs VM dans une
> machine,  même s'il passe - sous debian - par le discutable snap...
>
> On 2/7/22 14:56, Olivier wrote:
> > Bonjour,
> >
> > Il m'arrive souvent de livrer des équipements réseau (serveurs Debian,
> > routeurs, ...) dont l'assemblage doit satisfaire à des règles du type:
> > - une machine du VLAN11 doit pouvoir communiquer avec une machine du VLAN12
> > - une machine du VLAN11 doit pas pouvoir communiquer avec une machine du 
> > VLAN13
> > 
> >
> > Pour ce faire j'utilise deux ou trois PC connectés aux différents
> > équipements et je lance à la main quelques commandes du type ping,
> > iperf3, nc ou wget.
> >
> > J'aimerai mécaniser tout ce cela, à la manière des tests unitaires en
> > développement logiciel principalement pour éviter les régressions et
> > avoir une plus grande confiance.
> >
> > Plutôt qu'utiliser plusieurs machines, j'aimerai n'en utiliser qu'une
> > seule (j'imagine qu'il est plus simple de lancer les tests et lire
> > leurs résultats sur une seule machine), dotée de plusieurs interfaces
> > réseau, et de lancer un script unique lançant chaque test unitaire
> > mais s'il faut en utiliser plusieurs, j'en utiliserai plusieurs.
> >
> > Qui a déjà essayé un truc équivalent ?
> >
> > Slts
> >
>

Re: Test unitaire de réseau

[Pierre Couderc]

LXD peut être sympa pour cela, en regroupant plusieurs VM dans une 
machine,  même s'il passe - sous debian - par le discutable snap...


On 2/7/22 14:56, Olivier wrote:

Bonjour,

Il m'arrive souvent de livrer des équipements réseau (serveurs Debian,
routeurs, ...) dont l'assemblage doit satisfaire à des règles du type:
- une machine du VLAN11 doit pouvoir communiquer avec une machine du VLAN12
- une machine du VLAN11 doit pas pouvoir communiquer avec une machine du VLAN13


Pour ce faire j'utilise deux ou trois PC connectés aux différents
équipements et je lance à la main quelques commandes du type ping,
iperf3, nc ou wget.

J'aimerai mécaniser tout ce cela, à la manière des tests unitaires en
développement logiciel principalement pour éviter les régressions et
avoir une plus grande confiance.

Plutôt qu'utiliser plusieurs machines, j'aimerai n'en utiliser qu'une
seule (j'imagine qu'il est plus simple de lancer les tests et lire
leurs résultats sur une seule machine), dotée de plusieurs interfaces
réseau, et de lancer un script unique lançant chaque test unitaire
mais s'il faut en utiliser plusieurs, j'en utiliserai plusieurs.

Qui a déjà essayé un truc équivalent ?

Slts

Re: test vs. [ [was: Bash script problem]

[tomas]

On Thu, Aug 05, 2021 at 08:32:39AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 05, 2021 at 01:59:06PM +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > On Thu, Aug 05, 2021 at 07:19:11AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > > The external versions of test and [ need to exist for POSIX conformance,
> > > and also so that you can -exec them from find(1) or other similar
> > > programs.
> > 
> > I see. Do we still (seriously) care about POSIX (don't get me wrong: I'd
> > strongly prefer a world where we did!).
> 
> Depends on who you mean by "we".

:-)

>  There are a bunch of people who do
> care, and a bunch of people who don't.

Yes, and I see that as a problem.

> I'd say the Debian developers who package things like coreutils care,
> at least to a certain degree.  They won't go to extreme lengths to be
> POSIX compatible, but they'll mostly try to do so if it doesn't break
> anything or cause an unreasonable burden.

[...]

> I can't say which decision is the better one.

I think this "soft POSIX compliance" might kill POSIX in the long run.
Since everyone feels free to route around his/her personal pain points,
there's little collective motivation to actually /fix/ them, and it
might drift slowly into irrelevance.

Now I'm not a 100% fan of POSIX /per se/ but I see the value in
written standards. Standards processes can seem at times clumsy, but
they force people to think about interfaces and specifications.

Otherwise it's what we have now with WHATWG's HTML5 "living standard",
which will end up with "whatever Google implements". Not much better,
in my eyes, than the bad old times of Microsoft dominance.

Cheers
 - t


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: test vs. [ [was: Bash script problem]

[Greg Wooledge]

On Thu, Aug 05, 2021 at 01:59:06PM +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 05, 2021 at 07:19:11AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > The external versions of test and [ need to exist for POSIX conformance,
> > and also so that you can -exec them from find(1) or other similar
> > programs.
> 
> I see. Do we still (seriously) care about POSIX (don't get me wrong: I'd
> strongly prefer a world where we did!).

Depends on who you mean by "we".  There are a bunch of people who do
care, and a bunch of people who don't.

I'd say the Debian developers who package things like coreutils care,
at least to a certain degree.  They won't go to extreme lengths to be
POSIX compatible, but they'll mostly try to do so if it doesn't break
anything or cause an unreasonable burden.

A bigger issue is that certain packages which *should* be present for
POSIX compatibility are simply not installed by default -- specifically,
pax and ed come to mind.  I don't know who made the decision that
these packages would be "optional" instead of "standard", but it leaves
significant holes in what would otherwise be a fairly POSIX-compliant
operating system.

Then again, users who care about having POSIX-compliant systems can
simply install the extra packages they need, once they learn that they
have this option.  Maybe Debian believes that the small savings in
disk space and bandwidth outweighs the merits of being closer to POSIX
compatibility, since so few end users actually care about the latter.

I can't say which decision is the better one.

Re: test

[tomas]

On Fri, Jul 09, 2021 at 06:28:21PM -0400, Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside wrote:
> 
> -- 
> Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
> https://www.polynamaude.com/
> 
> -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
> 
> *Mise en garde concernant la confidentialité*
> 
> La présente communication est confidentielle et transmise sous le sceau du
> secret professionnel.

Oh, là là...

:-)

bon week-end
 - t


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: test, Was: mplayer won't play m4a

[Rodolfo Medina]

"Thomas Schmitt"  writes:

> Hi,
>
> Curt wrote:
>> I guess I wasn't precise enough. news.gmane.org is the news server.
>> gmane.linux.debian.user is this newsgroup. I am here.
>
> So what you post to gmane.linux.debian.user ends up on debian-user
> mailing list too ?

Of course, that's the way  I post to the list.

> (I can distinguish a typical server name from a typical group name, btw.)
>
> [...]
>
> Rodolfo could make an attempt without the weighty attachment.
> Maybe all the rest is just a red herring.

I'm doing so now.

> Is there a limit for attachments published for gmane.linux.debian.user ?

The problem might be just that...!  I'll test it now.


Rodolfo

Re: test, Was: mplayer won't play m4a

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Curt wrote:
> I guess I wasn't precise enough. news.gmane.org is the news server.
> gmane.linux.debian.user is this newsgroup. I am here.

So what you post to gmane.linux.debian.user ends up on debian-user
mailing list too ?
(I can distinguish a typical server name from a typical group name, btw.)

I asked about gmane.linux.debian.user because it is mentioned in Rodolfo's
copy of the perceived mail headers, and because on a local USENET server
it looks like a fragmentary copy of group linux.debian.user


> Can't find that specific message id, in fact,

Rodolfo could make an attempt without the weighty attachment.
Maybe all the rest is just a red herring.

Is there a limit for attachments published for gmane.linux.debian.user ?


> (clumsy in informatics as I am)

In the locally available gmane.linux.debian.user i see an article:

  Path: ...!news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail
  From: Curt 
  Newsgroups: gmane.linux.debian.user
  Subject: Re: USB hard drives -- recommendations?
  Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2019 10:34:55 - (UTC)
  Organization: Unorganized
  Approved: n...@gmane.org
  Message-ID: 

So that's indeed what a NNTP client and Gmane's news server write into
the message headers. But Curt's mails on debian-user appear without the
newsgroup specific headers (but with some Gmane specific headers).


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: test, Was: mplayer won't play m4a

[Rodolfo Medina]

"Thomas Schmitt"  writes:

> Curt wrote:
>> I post to the group via news.gmane.org with a NNTP client.
>
> Can you see gmane.linux.debian.user there ?
>
> If yes: Are there recent messages from Rodolfo Medina ?
> E.g. this one:
>
>   From: Rodolfo Medina 
>   Subject: Re: mplayer won't play m4a
>   Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2019 13:15:24 +
>   Message-ID: <87r24yx2j7.fsf@lenovo>
>
> (It might have suffered silent rejection due to its 1 MB attachment.)

I can see all my recent messages through gmane.news server in linux.debian.user
group...

Rodolfo

Re: test, Was: mplayer won't play m4a

[Curt]

On 2019-09-03, Thomas Schmitt  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Curt wrote:
>> I post to the group via news.gmane.org with a NNTP client.
>
> Can you see gmane.linux.debian.user there ?

I guess I wasn't precise enough. news.gmane.org is the news server.
gmane.linux.debian.user is this newsgroup. I am here.

> If yes: Are there recent messages from Rodolfo Medina ?
> E.g. this one:

Yes, there are recent messages from that old troublemaker, Rodolfo
Medina.

;-)

>   From: Rodolfo Medina 
>   Subject: Re: mplayer won't play m4a
>   Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2019 13:15:24 +
>   Message-ID: <87r24yx2j7.fsf@lenovo>
>
> (It might have suffered silent rejection due to its 1 MB attachment.)

Can't find that specific message id, in fact, but as I have developed no
systematic way of looking for it (clumsy in informatics as I am) I may
have missed it.

>
> Have a nice day :)
>
> Thomas
>
>


-- 
“We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.” 
― Oscar Wilde, Lady Windermere's Fan

Re: test, Was: mplayer won't play m4a

[The Wanderer]

On 2019-09-03 at 07:28, The Wanderer wrote:

> On 2019-09-03 at 07:15, Thomas Schmitt wrote:

>> Regrettably the newsgroup archive version is still not reachable for me
>>   http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.user/558396
>> It would really be interesting to see whether Rodolfo's failed attempts
>> pile up as follow-ups to that message.
> 
> I got a timeout-error page when trying to load that URL. I wonder
> whether there's something wrong with Gmane's systems at the moment, or
> even whether that's somehow an invalid URL?

The exact error I get is a 522 page from Cloudflare, reporting that "the
initial connection between Cloudflare's network and the origin web
server timed out".

The reason I bother to come back to mention this is that I just now got
a very similar error page from an attempt to connect to nintendolife.com
on my smartphone, after a page from that site came up in my Google news
feed (showing as having been posted three hours ago).

This could be a coincidence, but it may also be the case that there are
broader outages going on at the moment.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: test, Was: mplayer won't play m4a

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Curt wrote:
> I post to the group via news.gmane.org with a NNTP client.

Can you see gmane.linux.debian.user there ?

If yes: Are there recent messages from Rodolfo Medina ?
E.g. this one:

  From: Rodolfo Medina 
  Subject: Re: mplayer won't play m4a
  Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2019 13:15:24 +
  Message-ID: <87r24yx2j7.fsf@lenovo>

(It might have suffered silent rejection due to its 1 MB attachment.)


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: test, Was: mplayer won't play m4a

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

i wrote:
> > Due to no interest in the original topic, i only have the file '90'
> > but not a direct mailing list copy of the mail.

The Wanderer wrote:
> If you'd like, I could send one as an attachment, much as Rodolfo did

Not needed. Your report about lack of newsgroup headers matches what i
see from Andrei's mails about topics in which i had more interest than
in audio playback.
The problem is not in the original mail by Andrei but in the way how
Rodolfo's Gnus+Emacs perceived it.


> I wonder
> whether there's something wrong with Gmane's systems at the moment

Googling shows rumors from 2016 that their web service was going down.
But
  http://home.gmane.org/
looks like a revival attempt from that time. Wikipedia says it did not work
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gmane
German wikipedia states
  "Seit Ende März 2019 war die Website von Gmane nicht erreichbar."
 = Since end of march 2019 the website of Gmane was not reachable.
A typical case of Your Mileage May Vary.

There remains the riddle how it can sabotage Rodolfo's Gnus+Emacs and
how it still can leave fingerprints on Curt's mails.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: test, Was: mplayer won't play m4a

[Curt]

On 2019-09-03, Thomas Schmitt  wrote:
>
> ---
> And a curious question towards Curt :

> Your mails have the same
>   Old-Return-Path: 
> as in the message copy which Rodolfo gave me as the one to which he tries
> to reply and fails.
> There are more signs that gmane touches your messages before they show up
> in my mailbox. (X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/)
>
> If it is not an intrusion into your privacy: Do you have an explanation
> for the involvement of gmane in your mail transport ?

I post to the group via news.gmane.org with a NNTP client.


> ---
>
> Have a nice day :)
>
> Thomas
>
>


-- 
“We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.” 
― Oscar Wilde, Lady Windermere's Fan

Re: test, Was: mplayer won't play m4a

[The Wanderer]

On 2019-09-03 at 07:15, Thomas Schmitt wrote:

> Hi,
> 
>> I actually have two copies of that message: the one originally
>> received by me, and the one later provided by Rodolfo as an
>> attachment (with the filename '90'), which latter is the one he's
>> been trying to reply to.
> 
> Due to no interest in the original topic, i only have the file '90' 
> but not a direct mailing list copy of the mail.

If you'd like, I could send one as an attachment, much as Rodolfo did
(though probably by different mechanisms).

>> The one I received through the mailing list does not contain the
>> string 'gmane', at all.
> 
> So it is clear that these newsgroup and gmane headers stem from the 
> perception of Andrei's mail by Rodolfo's Gnus+Emacs mail client. (I
> still bet that this perception somehow comes from the way how the
> message reached Rodolfo.)

I tend to concur.

> Regrettably the newsgroup archive version is still not reachable for me
>   http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.user/558396
> It would really be interesting to see whether Rodolfo's failed attempts
> pile up as follow-ups to that message.

I got a timeout-error page when trying to load that URL. I wonder
whether there's something wrong with Gmane's systems at the moment, or
even whether that's somehow an invalid URL?

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: test, Was: mplayer won't play m4a

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

> I actually have two copies of that message: the one originally received
> by me, and the one later provided by Rodolfo as an attachment (with the
> filename '90'), which latter is the one he's been trying to reply to.

Due to no interest in the original topic, i only have the file '90'
but not a direct mailing list copy of the mail.


> The one I received through the mailing list does not contain the string
> 'gmane', at all.

So it is clear that these newsgroup and gmane headers stem from the
perception of Andrei's mail by Rodolfo's Gnus+Emacs mail client.
(I still bet that this perception somehow comes from the way how
 the message reached Rodolfo.)

Regrettably the newsgroup archive version is still not reachable for me
  http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.user/558396
It would really be interesting to see whether Rodolfo's failed attempts
pile up as follow-ups to that message.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: test, Was: mplayer won't play m4a

[The Wanderer]

On 2019-09-03 at 05:40, Thomas Schmitt wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> a more elaborate theory:
> 
>   https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/GnusTutorial
> shows that Gnus+Emacs works on e-mail and newsgroups alike.
> 
> If Rodolfo's Gnus got Andrei's message from a newsgroup rather than via
> mail, then it might have directed the reply to that newsgroup.
> I got the Cc: via mail, because Gnus merrily mixes both communications
> channels. (It's easy. Formats and transport protocols are very similar.)
> 
> I think the theory is dead that Andrei POPESCU's mails themselves are
> the trigger. Those which i have in my mailbox show no USENET headers.
> 
> ---
> So a request to The Wanderer:
> 
> You wrote that you have a copy of
>   https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/08/msg01294.html
>   Subject: Re: mplayer won't play m4a
>   From: Andrei POPESCU 
>   Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 22:05:05 +0300
>   Message-id: <20190826190505.zldub4tzker6am7d@localhost>
> 
> Please check by looking at the full header display or into the mailbox file
> whether this message's header collection has
>   Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail
>   Newsgroups: gmane.linux.debian.user
> or any other occurence of "gmane".

I actually have two copies of that message: the one originally received
by me, and the one later provided by Rodolfo as an attachment (with the
filename '90'), which latter is the one he's been trying to reply to.

The one I received through the mailing list does not contain the string
'gmane', at all.

But the one provided by Rodolfo does, many times, including both in a
Path: and in a Newsgroups: header. You can probably examine that one
yourself, by downloading the same attachment I'm looking at.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: test, Was: mplayer won't play m4a

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

a more elaborate theory:

  https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/GnusTutorial
shows that Gnus+Emacs works on e-mail and newsgroups alike.

If Rodolfo's Gnus got Andrei's message from a newsgroup rather than via
mail, then it might have directed the reply to that newsgroup.
I got the Cc: via mail, because Gnus merrily mixes both communications
channels. (It's easy. Formats and transport protocols are very similar.)

I think the theory is dead that Andrei POPESCU's mails themselves are
the trigger. Those which i have in my mailbox show no USENET headers.

---
So a request to The Wanderer:

You wrote that you have a copy of
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/08/msg01294.html
  Subject: Re: mplayer won't play m4a
  From: Andrei POPESCU 
  Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 22:05:05 +0300
  Message-id: <20190826190505.zldub4tzker6am7d@localhost>

Please check by looking at the full header display or into the mailbox file
whether this message's header collection has
  Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail
  Newsgroups: gmane.linux.debian.user
or any other occurence of "gmane".

---
And a curious question towards Curt :

Your mails have the same
  Old-Return-Path: 
as in the message copy which Rodolfo gave me as the one to which he tries
to reply and fails.
There are more signs that gmane touches your messages before they show up
in my mailbox. (X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/)

If it is not an intrusion into your privacy: Do you have an explanation
for the involvement of gmane in your mail transport ?

---

Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: test, Was: mplayer won't play m4a

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

i wrote:
> > One header is missing: To: ...

Rodolfo Medina wrote:
> So what would your theory be...?

That Gnus tried to send the message to Newsgroup gmane.linux.debian.user ?
That the Debian mailing list server does not accept messages without To:,
Cc:, or Bcc: to a debian-list ?


I had a look at gmane.linux.debian.user via a USENET provider. There it is
an outdated and incomplete copy of messages from debian-user. Last from
february 2019. The group linux.debian.user looks quite complete from here.
(USENET server content can vary from provider to provider. It depends on
 what they accept from other servers.)

In the headers of the message by Andrei POPESCU to which you try to reply
i see:

  Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail
  From: Andrei POPESCU 
  Newsgroups: gmane.linux.debian.user
  Approved: n...@gmane.org
  ...
  To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
  Original-X-From: 
bounce-debian-user=gldu-debian-user-2=m.gmane@lists.debian.org Mon Aug 26 
21:05:28 2019
  Return-path: 

  Envelope-to: gldu-debian-use...@m.gmane.org
  ...
  Archived-At: 

I tried to go that URL. But it i only get ain error 522 "Connection timed out"
from a company named Cloudflare which states that it would try to connect
to the real server.

Maybe others have more luck and see Rodolfo's follow-up somewhere around
  http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.user/558396


I have not a single "Path:" header in my scdbackup mailbox.
The header "Newsgroups:" appears two times. One is in Rodolfo's failed
attempt, one in a mail which i got from a different message list.

As said, Path: and Newsgroups: belong to the RFC family beginning at
RFC850 (USENET) which we know as newsgroups, not to the RFC822 family
(ARPA Internet Text Messages) which we know as e-mail.
  RFC850 is now https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5536
  RFC822 is now https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5322


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: test, Was: mplayer won't play m4a

[Rodolfo Medina]

"Thomas Schmitt"  writes:

> I have a new theory.
>
> One header is missing:
>
>   To: ...


Right...  Whereas all my previous messages on this list do have that header...
So what would your theory be...?

Thanks,

Rodolfo

Re: test, Was: mplayer won't play m4a

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

The Wanderer wrote:
> >> Here's an attempt to reply to the message which Rodolfo Medina has
> >> reported having trouble replying to. Has anyone else tried to reply
> >> to this message, prior to this?

I wrote
> > I did, creating the sub-thread "Re: test, Was: mplayer won't play

The Wanderer wrote:
> But that doesn't seem to have been a reply to that same message. It
> shows up on my end as a reply to Rodolfo's message with Message-ID:
> <87blwe4rd8.fsf@lenovo>,

Ah yes.
But later i sent a follow-up to the message to which Rodolfo's replies
don't make it through the Debian list server.


Rodolfo Medina wrote:
> Every time I'm sending a mail message from my Gnus system (even jus now), it
> says something as:
> The Message-ID looks strange: "<87sgpetvv7.fsf@lenovo>".  [...]

It looks barely legal. "lenovo" as domain is not very unique.
Normally it should be a registered domain name, so that no machine outside
that domain feels entitled to use its name in unique identifiers.


> Maybe this means something...  Maybe Andrei has some sort of anti-spam
> system that prevents strange IDs to reply to his posts...?

I doubt that Andrei's system(s) have anything to do with the problem.
The decision not to forward your mails is done by the Debian server,
unless your mail provider silently failed to hand over the mail to that
server.


I have a new theory.
The (to my knowledge) last failed attempt has:

  From: Rodolfo Medina 
  Newsgroups: gmane.linux.debian.user
  Cc: scdbac...@gmx.net,rodolfo.med...@gmail.com
  Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2019 13:15:24 +
  Message-ID: <87r24yx2j7.fsf@lenovo>
  References: <87h8664rvb.fsf@lenovo>
  <20190826190505.zldub4tzker6am7d@localhost>
  In-Reply-To: <20190826190505.zldub4tzker6am7d@localhost> (Andrei POPESCU's
message of "Mon, 26 Aug 2019 22:05:05 +0300")

One header is missing:

  To: ...

According to RFC5322, the header To: is optional.
But not having it is really unusual.
Then there is the Newsgroups: header. This belongs to USENET, not to e-mail.


I think i cannot keep my mail sender from adding a To: header.
Will have to hack it for an experiment.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: test, Was: mplayer won't play m4a

[Rodolfo Medina]

"Thomas Schmitt"  writes:

> Hi,
>
> The Wanderer wrote:
>> Rodolfo posted a copy of that message as an attachment, just now, so
>> that should be check-able. I don't see anything quite odd just at a glance.
>
> Yes. Looks totally normal.
>
>
>> Here's an attempt to reply to the message which Rodolfo Medina has
>> reported having trouble replying to. Has anyone else tried to reply to
>> this message, prior to this?
>
> I did, creating the sub-thread "Re: test, Was: mplayer won't play m4a".
> Same as with your attempt: no problems. And Rodolfo can reply to our
> follow-up mails in the thread.
>
> It is not yet proven whether the strange In-Reply-To: header content
> is to blame. But i see it in my Cc: of the failed attempt of Rodolfo
> to follow-up to Andrei POPESCU's mail with id
> 20190826190505.zldub4tzker6am7d@localhost.
> The successful attempts to our recent mails don't have this header.


Every time I'm sending a mail message from my Gnus system (even jus now), it
says something as:

The Message-ID looks strange: "<87sgpetvv7.fsf@lenovo>".  Really post? (y or n) 
n

Maybe this means something...  Maybe Andrei has some sort of anti-spam system
that prevents strange IDs to reply to his posts...?

Rodolfo

Re: test, Was: mplayer won't play m4a

[The Wanderer]

On 2019-09-02 at 13:00, Thomas Schmitt wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> The Wanderer wrote:

>> Here's an attempt to reply to the message which Rodolfo Medina has 
>> reported having trouble replying to. Has anyone else tried to reply
>> to this message, prior to this?
> 
> I did, creating the sub-thread "Re: test, Was: mplayer won't play
> m4a". Same as with your attempt: no problems. And Rodolfo can reply
> to our follow-up mails in the thread.

But that doesn't seem to have been a reply to that same message. It
shows up on my end as a reply to Rodolfo's message with Message-ID:
<87blwe4rd8.fsf@lenovo>, which shows as a reply to his original message;
Andrei's message seems to have been a reply to that original message.

So where my reply shows up as a child of Andrei's, yours shows up as
sort of a niece or nephew. If yours was intended as a reply to Andrei's
message, then something else has gotten weird somewhere.


Your analysis of the various message headers has gotten further than I
have, and I'm not sure I'm in a position to help pursue this much (if
any) further, but I appreciate what you've done from your end.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: test, Was: mplayer won't play m4a

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

so the In-Reply-To theory took a blow. I'm out of ideas.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: test, Was: mplayer won't play m4a

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

i make a test with a synthetic In-Reply-To: header like Rodolfo's.

A test mail to myself went through. So it is not everywhere bad.

Now i am really curious ...


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: test, Was: mplayer won't play m4a

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

The Wanderer wrote:
> Rodolfo posted a copy of that message as an attachment, just now, so
> that should be check-able. I don't see anything quite odd just at a glance.

Yes. Looks totally normal.


> Here's an attempt to reply to the message which Rodolfo Medina has
> reported having trouble replying to. Has anyone else tried to reply to
> this message, prior to this?

I did, creating the sub-thread "Re: test, Was: mplayer won't play m4a".
Same as with your attempt: no problems. And Rodolfo can reply to our
follow-up mails in the thread.

It is not yet proven whether the strange In-Reply-To: header content
is to blame. But i see it in my Cc: of the failed attempt of Rodolfo
to follow-up to Andrei POPESCU's mail with id
20190826190505.zldub4tzker6am7d@localhost.
The successful attempts to our recent mails don't have this header.


Rodolfo's mails have
  User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux)
So maybe this is a reason to ask b...@gnus.org if it still exists.

Or to study
  http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/tree/lisp/gnus
where a search for "In-Reply-To" finds
  
http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/commit/lisp/gnus?id=fa98585ca3779749f7acadf5eaa321c03f7b0b8e
which leads me to
  http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/tree/lisp/gnus/message.el#n5618

  (defun message-make-in-reply-to ()
...
   "'s message of \""
   (if (or (not date) (string= date ""))
...

This is obviously the text snippet that is attached to Rodolfo's

  In-Reply-To: <20190826190505.zldub4tzker6am7d@localhost> (Andrei POPESCU's
message of "Mon, 26 Aug 2019 22:05:05 +0300")

But i am too old to learn digesting Lisp poems.
(Either you learn it until you are 30 - or never.)
So i cannot tell why and when this function is called and a In-Reply-To
header gets added.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: test, Was: mplayer won't play m4a

[The Wanderer]

On 2019-09-02 at 11:33, Thomas Schmitt wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> i wrote:
>>> I don't have the mail by Andrei POPESCU in my mailbox,
> 
> The Wanderer wrote:
>> I do. It has:
> In-Reply-To: <87h8664rvb.fsf@lenovo>

>> If you want the full message, I can probably pass it along as an
>> attachment.
> 
> The full header block would be of interest. (Although i have few hope
> to spot any strangeness.)

Rodolfo posted a copy of that message as an attachment, just now, so
that should be check-able. I don't see anything quite odd just at a glance.

I'm about to reply (via Thunderbird's "reply to list" button) to my
local copy of Andrei's message, to see whether a reply from someone
other than Rodolfo goes through.

> Andrei POPESCU could join this discussion and post a test mail to
> which Rodolfo Medina could try to reply. This would help to
> understand whether it is in some way a systematic problem between the
> two mail clients.

That could be interesting, indeed, but I don't think we're quite out of
avenues to pursue even without that.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: test, Was: mplayer won't play m4a

[Rodolfo Medina]

The Wanderer  writes:

> On 2019-09-02 at 11:21, Rodolfo Medina wrote:
>
>> "Thomas Schmitt"  writes:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Rodolfo Medina wrote:
 ...And I'm replying now to the above message from Thomas...
>>>
>>> This one has no In-Reply-To header.
>>>
>>> I don't have the mail by Andrei POPESCU in my mailbox, to which you
>>> tried to reply with that header line.
>>>   https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/08/msg01294.html
>>>
>>> A mail from him from a different thread looks unsuspicious, header-wise.
>> 
>> It remains anyway a mistery, why I'm regularly replying to the present
>> thread but can't to the other one...
>
> Strictly, this isn't even a different thread; it's just another message
> in the same thread, with a different Subject line.

Yes, right...  but also I could reply to the thread named `test', earlier
today...

>
> I don't remember if you've specified: what is the exact message to which
> you're unsuccessfully trying to reply? Could you provide an archive link
> to it, and/or (better, but more unwieldy) provide the message itself -
> including headers - as an attachment or suchlike?


All right...  Here it is:



90
Description: Binary data

Thanks...

Rodolfo

Re: test, Was: mplayer won't play m4a

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

i wrote:
> > I don't have the mail by Andrei POPESCU in my mailbox,

The Wanderer wrote:
> I do. It has:
> >>> In-Reply-To: <87h8664rvb.fsf@lenovo>

Well, it is not about the In-Reply-To: header itself. Most of our mails
here have one, with just a message id string in <>-brackets.

But something seems to lure Rodolfo Medina's mail client into writing
an unusual text after that id string:

  In-Reply-To: <20190826190505.zldub4tzker6am7d@localhost> (Andrei POPESCU's
message of "Mon, 26 Aug 2019 22:05:05 +0300")

A good candidate would be some header line in Andrei's mail which tells
Rodolfo's mail client to send an In-Reply-To: at all, and with that text
add-on in ()-brackets.
(I have yet no idea how this could look like ...)


> If you want the full message, I can probably pass it along as an attachment.

The full header block would be of interest.
(Although i have few hope to spot any strangeness.)

Andrei POPESCU could join this discussion and post a test mail to which
Rodolfo Medina could try to reply. This would help to understand whether
it is in some way a systematic problem between the two mail clients.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: test, Was: mplayer won't play m4a

[The Wanderer]

On 2019-09-02 at 11:21, Rodolfo Medina wrote:

> "Thomas Schmitt"  writes:
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>> Rodolfo Medina wrote:
>>> ...And I'm replying now to the above message from Thomas...
>>
>> This one has no In-Reply-To header.
>>
>> I don't have the mail by Andrei POPESCU in my mailbox, to which you
>> tried to reply with that header line.
>>   https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/08/msg01294.html
>>
>> A mail from him from a different thread looks unsuspicious, header-wise.
> 
> It remains anyway a mistery, why I'm regularly replying to the present thread
> but can't to the other one...

Strictly, this isn't even a different thread; it's just another message
in the same thread, with a different Subject line.

I don't remember if you've specified: what is the exact message to which
you're unsuccessfully trying to reply? Could you provide an archive link
to it, and/or (better, but more unwieldy) provide the message itself -
including headers - as an attachment or suchlike?

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: test, Was: mplayer won't play m4a

[Rodolfo Medina]

"Thomas Schmitt"  writes:

> Hi,
>
> Rodolfo Medina wrote:
>> ...And I'm replying now to the above message from Thomas...
>
> This one has no In-Reply-To header.
>
> I don't have the mail by Andrei POPESCU in my mailbox, to which you
> tried to reply with that header line.
>   https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/08/msg01294.html
>
> A mail from him from a different thread looks unsuspicious, header-wise.


It remains anyway a mistery, why I'm regularly replying to the present thread
but can't to the other one...

Rodolfo

Re: test, Was: mplayer won't play m4a

[The Wanderer]

On 2019-09-02 at 11:14, Thomas Schmitt wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Rodolfo Medina wrote:
>> ...And I'm replying now to the above message from Thomas...
> 
> This one has no In-Reply-To header.
> 
> I don't have the mail by Andrei POPESCU in my mailbox, to which you
> tried to reply with that header line.
>   https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/08/msg01294.html

I do. It has:

>>> In-Reply-To: <87h8664rvb.fsf@lenovo>

If you want the full message, I can probably pass it along as an attachment.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: test, Was: mplayer won't play m4a

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Rodolfo Medina wrote:
> ...And I'm replying now to the above message from Thomas...

This one has no In-Reply-To header.

I don't have the mail by Andrei POPESCU in my mailbox, to which you
tried to reply with that header line.
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/08/msg01294.html

A mail from him from a different thread looks unsuspicious, header-wise.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: test, Was: mplayer won't play m4a

[Rodolfo Medina]

"Thomas Schmitt"  writes:

> Hi,
>
> this is a test whether i can reply to the thread "mplayer won't play m4a".
> It looks like Rodolfo Medina, the thread starter cannot.
>
> See
>   https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/09/msg00053.html
>
> In my recent mail to that thread i announced to reply to
> Message-Id: 87h8664rvb.fsf@lenovo rather than 87blwe4rd8.fsf@lenovo.
> The latter is the id of the previous mail in the thread.
>
> This one should show up as follow-up to
>   https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/08/msg01171.html
> with subject
>   Re: test, Was: mplayer won't play m4a
>
>
> Have a nice day :)
>
> Thomas


...And I'm replying now to the above message from Thomas...

Rodolfo

Re: test

[Rodolfo Medina]

"Thomas Schmitt"  writes:

> Hi,
>
> Rodolfo Medina wrote (twice ?):
>> Done.  Let's see...

Yes, twice, sorry, a sort of non-delivered-messages fear...  ;-)



> I received the direct mail
>
>   Subject: Re: mplayer won't play m4a
>   Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2019 13:15:24 +
>   Message-ID: <87r24yx2j7.fsf@lenovo>
>   References: <87h8664rvb.fsf@lenovo>
>   <20190826190505.zldub4tzker6am7d@localhost>
>   In-Reply-To: <20190826190505.zldub4tzker6am7d@localhost> (Andrei POPESCU's
> message of "Mon, 26 Aug 2019 22:05:05 +0300")
>
> without debian-user mail headers at
>   Mon Sep  2 15:59:16 CEST 2019
> but GMX had it ready in the remote mailbox since 15:15:35 +0200.
>
> The expected copy via debian-user did not show up within an hour.
> Neither in my mailbox nor at
>   https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/09/threads.html
>
> The additional text in In-Reply-To: looks unusual.
> There are no In-Reply-To: in Rodolfo Medina's mail to thread "test".

Indeed, strange...

> Is there any explanation for this difference ?
>
> --
>
> So i will test myself by replying to Message-Id: 87h8664rvb.fsf@lenovo
> as of
>   https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/08/msg01171.html
> with Cc: rodolfo.med...@gmail.com.


Thanks,

Rodolfo

Re: test, Was: mplayer won't play m4a

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

this is a test whether i can reply to the thread "mplayer won't play m4a".
It looks like Rodolfo Medina, the thread starter cannot.

See
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/09/msg00053.html

In my recent mail to that thread i announced to reply to
Message-Id: 87h8664rvb.fsf@lenovo rather than 87blwe4rd8.fsf@lenovo.
The latter is the id of the previous mail in the thread.

This one should show up as follow-up to
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/08/msg01171.html
with subject
  Re: test, Was: mplayer won't play m4a


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: test

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Rodolfo Medina wrote (twice ?):
> Done.  Let's see...

I received the direct mail

  Subject: Re: mplayer won't play m4a
  Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2019 13:15:24 +
  Message-ID: <87r24yx2j7.fsf@lenovo>
  References: <87h8664rvb.fsf@lenovo>
  <20190826190505.zldub4tzker6am7d@localhost>
  In-Reply-To: <20190826190505.zldub4tzker6am7d@localhost> (Andrei POPESCU's
message of "Mon, 26 Aug 2019 22:05:05 +0300")

without debian-user mail headers at
  Mon Sep  2 15:59:16 CEST 2019
but GMX had it ready in the remote mailbox since 15:15:35 +0200.

The expected copy via debian-user did not show up within an hour.
Neither in my mailbox nor at
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/09/threads.html

The additional text in In-Reply-To: looks unusual.
There are no In-Reply-To: in Rodolfo Medina's mail to thread "test".
Is there any explanation for this difference ?

--

So i will test myself by replying to Message-Id: 87h8664rvb.fsf@lenovo
as of
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/08/msg01171.html
with Cc: rodolfo.med...@gmail.com.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: test

[Rodolfo Medina]

"Thomas Schmitt"  writes:

> Hi,
>
> Rodolfo Medina wrote:
>> Yes, that's the strange thing: I've been added a reply to that thread, many
>> times, but it was not delivered to the list neithere is being delivered nor
>> it will even now...
>
> And in the next mail:
>> Sorry, `I've been adding'
>
> Try again.
> Add Cc: to scdbac...@gmx.net and to yourself.
> Then let's see what shows up where.

Done.  Let's see...


> (Did you get both copies of my previous mail ?
>  One via debian-user, one by Cc: rodolfo.med...@gmail.com ?)

Yes, I did.

> Have a nice day :)

Thanks, cheers

Rodolfo

Re: test

[The Wanderer]

On 2019-09-02 at 09:23, Rodolfo Medina wrote:

> The Wanderer  writes:
> 
>> On 2019-09-02 at 09:07, Thomas Schmitt wrote:

>>> Try again.
>>> Add Cc: to scdbac...@gmx.net and to yourself.
>>> Then let's see what shows up where.
>>
>> This seems worth trying, but...
>>
>>> (Did you get both copies of my previous mail ?
>>>  One via debian-user, one by Cc: rodolfo.med...@gmail.com ?)
>>
>> ...he wouldn't have gotten both, anyway, due to a known Gmail
>> misfeature.
>>
>> If Gmail receives a message, and sees that you already have a copy
>> of a message (determined, as far as I can tell, exclusively by
>> Message-ID), it will basically discard the incoming message as
>> being redundant.
> 
> I usually read and send messages from and to the present list using
> my Emacs Gnus newsagent, via gmane.news...  So I actually received in
> Gmail just one copy of Thomas' message...

Ah, I'd forgotten about Gmane as an option. Yeah, that would explain
that particular discrepancy, at least.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: test

[Rodolfo Medina]

The Wanderer  writes:

> On 2019-09-02 at 09:07, Thomas Schmitt wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Rodolfo Medina wrote:
>>> Yes, that's the strange thing: I've been added a reply to that thread, many
>>> times, but it was not delivered to the list neithere is being delivered nor
>>> it will even now...
>> 
>> And in the next mail:
>>> Sorry, `I've been adding'
>> 
>> Try again.
>> Add Cc: to scdbac...@gmx.net and to yourself.
>> Then let's see what shows up where.
>
> This seems worth trying, but...
>
>> (Did you get both copies of my previous mail ?
>>  One via debian-user, one by Cc: rodolfo.med...@gmail.com ?)
>
> ...he wouldn't have gotten both, anyway, due to a known Gmail
> misfeature.
>
> If Gmail receives a message, and sees that you already have a copy of a
> message (determined, as far as I can tell, exclusively by Message-ID),
> it will basically discard the incoming message as being redundant.

I usually read and send messages from and to the present list using my Emacs
Gnus newsagent, via gmane.news...  So I actually received in Gmail just one
copy of Thomas' message...

Rodolfo

Re: test

[Rodolfo Medina]

"Thomas Schmitt"  writes:

> Hi,
>
> Rodolfo Medina wrote:
>> Yes, that's the strange thing: I've been added a reply to that thread, many
>> times, but it was not delivered to the list neithere is being delivered nor
>> it will even now...
>
> And in the next mail:
>> Sorry, `I've been adding'
>
> Try again.
> Add Cc: to scdbac...@gmx.net and to yourself.
> Then let's see what shows up where.

Done.  Let's see...


> (Did you get both copies of my previous mail ?
>  One via debian-user, one by Cc: rodolfo.med...@gmail.com ?)

Yes, I did.

> Have a nice day :)

Thanks, cheers

Rodolfo

Re: test

[The Wanderer]

On 2019-09-02 at 09:07, Thomas Schmitt wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Rodolfo Medina wrote:
>> Yes, that's the strange thing: I've been added a reply to that thread, many
>> times, but it was not delivered to the list neithere is being delivered nor
>> it will even now...
> 
> And in the next mail:
>> Sorry, `I've been adding'
> 
> Try again.
> Add Cc: to scdbac...@gmx.net and to yourself.
> Then let's see what shows up where.

This seems worth trying, but...

> (Did you get both copies of my previous mail ?
>  One via debian-user, one by Cc: rodolfo.med...@gmail.com ?)

...he wouldn't have gotten both, anyway, due to a known Gmail
misfeature.

If Gmail receives a message, and sees that you already have a copy of a
message (determined, as far as I can tell, exclusively by Message-ID),
it will basically discard the incoming message as being redundant.

So he would see whichever copy reached him first (probably the one that
didn't come through the mailing list, since the mailing list adds
delivery lag), and not the other.

This also means that he'll never receive a copy of any message he sends
to the mailing list. The only way for him to tell whether the message
has been received and distributed properly is to ask some other
subscriber, or check the public archives.

Unless that misfeature has been fixed, or some other relevant factor
(e.g. the distinguishing criteria for uniqueness) has changed, which
would be positive news regardless but which I think is unlikely.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: test

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Rodolfo Medina wrote:
> Yes, that's the strange thing: I've been added a reply to that thread, many
> times, but it was not delivered to the list neithere is being delivered nor
> it will even now...

And in the next mail:
> Sorry, `I've been adding'

Try again.
Add Cc: to scdbac...@gmx.net and to yourself.
Then let's see what shows up where.

(Did you get both copies of my previous mail ?
 One via debian-user, one by Cc: rodolfo.med...@gmail.com ?)


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: test

[Rodolfo Medina]

Rodolfo Medina  writes:

> "Thomas Schmitt"  writes:
>
>> Rodolfo Medina wrote:
>>> > I've been sending many times a message to the present group but it
>>> > doesn't seem to have been delivered...
>>
>> Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> your name has not previously been received here.
>>
>> The list archive has
>>
>>   "mplayer won't play m4a"
>>   Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 13:26:00 +
>>   https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/08/msg01170.html
>>   Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 13:36:51 +
>>   https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/08/msg01171.html
>>
>> After that, the "test" message is the first and only in september 2019.
>
>
> Yes, that's the strange thing: I've been added a reply to that thread

Sorry, `I've been adding'

Rodolfo

Re: test

[Rodolfo Medina]

"Thomas Schmitt"  writes:

> Rodolfo Medina wrote:
>> > I've been sending many times a message to the present group but it
>> > doesn't seem to have been delivered...
>
> Gene Heskett wrote:
>> your name has not previously been received here.
>
> The list archive has
>
>   "mplayer won't play m4a"
>   Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 13:26:00 +
>   https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/08/msg01170.html
>   Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 13:36:51 +
>   https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/08/msg01171.html
>
> After that, the "test" message is the first and only in september 2019.


Yes, that's the strange thing: I've been added a reply to that thread, many
times, but it was not delivered to the list neithere is being delivered nor it
will even now...

Thanks,

Rodolfo

Re: test

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Rodolfo Medina wrote:
> > I've been sending many times a message to the present group but it
> > doesn't seem to have been delivered...

Gene Heskett wrote:
> your name has not previously been received here.

The list archive has

  "mplayer won't play m4a"
  Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 13:26:00 +
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/08/msg01170.html
  Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 13:36:51 +
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/08/msg01171.html

After that, the "test" message is the first and only in september 2019.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: test

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 02 September 2019 07:20:23 Rodolfo Medina wrote:

> I've been sending many times a message to the present group but it
> doesn't seem to have been delivered...
>
> Rodolfo

I have a broken crystal ball, so no clue what you have sent before, but 
your name has not previously been received here.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: test

[fernando sainz]

El jue., 22 ago. 2019 a las 17:15, Francisco Funcia Frígola
() escribió:
>
> Buenas tardes.
> ¿Cómo puedo darme de baja de esta lista?
> Muchas gracias
>
> El jue., 22 ago. 2019 a las 14:22, Debian Forever 
> () escribió:
>>
>> test, lista brutal
>>

Vaya par de dos...

Es cierto que la lista no tiene mucha actividad últimamente, pero tal
vez se deba a que cada vez es más fácil usar Debian y hay mas
documentación.

Sin ánimo de ser grosero, pero si necesitas que te digan como darte de
baja, es que tal vez nunca debiste darte de alta.
En   https://lists.debian.org/debian-user-spanish/   pones tu correo y
le das al botón de unsubscribe.


Saludos.

Re: test

[Francisco Funcia Frígola]

Buenas tardes.
¿Cómo puedo darme de baja de esta lista?
Muchas gracias

El jue., 22 ago. 2019 a las 14:22, Debian Forever (<
debianforever...@gmail.com>) escribió:

> test, lista brutal
>
>

Re : Test

[k6dedijon]

Bonjour,
Je reçois aussi ce message.
Mais de quelle adresse s'agit-il ?

Pour se dégoogeliser, il faut aussi aller voir :
https://degooglisons-internet.org/fr/list/
et
https://e.foundation/
Bonne découverte
Cassis




- Mail d'origine -
De: benoit...@ouvaton.org
À: debian-user-french@lists.debian.org
Envoyé: Sun, 30 Jun 2019 15:26:14 +0200 (CEST)
Objet: Test

Bonjour,

Je me suis inscris avec cette adresse pour me dégoogeliser, mais il y a 
un message d'erreur quand j’envoie un courriel sur cette liste.

De plus, mon message n'est pas directement visible (probablement bloqué 
automatiquement, mais accepté par les modérateurs).

Merci d'avance.

Benoit

Re: Test

[Yves Rutschle]

On Sun, Jun 30, 2019 at 03:26:14PM +0200, benoit...@ouvaton.org wrote:
> Je me suis inscris avec cette adresse pour me dégoogeliser, mais il y a un
> message d'erreur quand j’envoie un courriel sur cette liste.

Celui-ci a bien trouvé son chemin jusqu'à mon écran!

Y.

Re: test

[G2PC]

Le 23/11/2018 à 22:30, MERLIN Philippe a écrit :
> Bonjour,
> ceci est un test, j'ai envoyé deux messages qui n'ont pas été dispatchés par 
> la liste.
> Philippe Merlin

Opé

Re: test

[Haricophile]

Le Tue, 20 Jun 2017 18:13:08 +0200,
andre_deb...@numericable.fr a écrit :

> essais
> 

L'erreur s'est terminée avec succès.

(j'espère que je ne vais pas me faire poursuivre par Microsoft pour
plagiat).

-- 
haricoph...@aranha.fr 

Re: test

[Pierre L.]

essai OK

;)

Le 20/06/2017 à 18:13, andre_deb...@numericable.fr a écrit :
> essais
>




signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Saturday 01 April 2017 21:23:21 Cindy-Sue Causey wrote:
> On 4/1/17, cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz  wrote:
> > On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 03:33:08PM +, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> >> In all this talk of Debian being the universal operating system, and
> >> helping
> >> newbies ...
> >
> > I'm not sure those two concepts are related. My understanding of Debian
> > being the universal operating system is that it can run on as many
> > hardware platforms as possible, not that it is universally accessible by
> > all and sundry, although I guess if that also occurs then it's an added
> > bonus. :)
>
> They *are* working on Debian *usability*... VERY actively:
>
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/
>
> :)
>
> Cindy :)

Accessibility generally means for disabled people, not newbies.  It is a 
different thing.

Lisi

Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[Cindy-Sue Causey]

On 4/1/17, cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz  wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 03:33:08PM +, Lisi Reisz wrote:
>>
>> In all this talk of Debian being the universal operating system, and
>> helping
>> newbies ...
>
> I'm not sure those two concepts are related. My understanding of Debian
> being the universal operating system is that it can run on as many
> hardware platforms as possible, not that it is universally accessible by
> all and sundry, although I guess if that also occurs then it's an added
> bonus. :)


They *are* working on Debian *usability*... VERY actively:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/

:)

Cindy :)

-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with duct tape *

Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Saturday 01 April 2017 18:59:48 cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 03:33:08PM +, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > In all this talk of Debian being the universal operating system, and
> > helping newbies ...
>
> I'm not sure those two concepts are related. My understanding of Debian
> being the universal operating system is that it can run on as many
> hardware platforms as possible, not that it is universally accessible by
> all and sundry, although I guess if that also occurs then it's an added
> bonus. :)

I agree with you.  But I was being told that that view is elitist, in a world 
in which elite is a very pejorative word.

Lisi

Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[cbannister]

On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 03:33:08PM +, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> 
> In all this talk of Debian being the universal operating system, and helping 
> newbies ...

I'm not sure those two concepts are related. My understanding of Debian
being the universal operating system is that it can run on as many
hardware platforms as possible, not that it is universally accessible by
all and sundry, although I guess if that also occurs then it's an added
bonus. :)

-- 
The media's the most powerful entity on earth. 
They have the power to make the innocent guilty 
and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power.
 -- Malcolm X

Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[Steve McIntyre]

Lisi Reisz wrote:
>On Wednesday 22 March 2017 17:26:56 Richard Owlett wrote:
>>
>> I had a "Live 8.6 MATE" DVD next to me.
>> I had a minor glitch and a possibly significant problem.
>> The minor glitch was when launching the installer it needed a password.
>> Having seen that problem reported before, entering "live" got it going.
>>
>Interesting.  I wonder whether that would apply to all the mainstream Live 
>CDs, or just the Mate one?  I think they may be very individual.  I know the 
>Trinity unofficial one was, until it became the Devuan one anyway.  But it 
>installed OK, ran well both live and installed, and told you what password to 
>use in the accompanying documentation.

There have been significant issues with running the installer from a
live system in the past, and unfortunately a lack of volunteer time to
fix the manifold bugs found. I'd still very much recommend using a d-i
(netinst/DVD/whatever) image for installation in preference - you're
much less likely to hit random edge cases that way.

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com
< liw> everything I know about UK hotels I learned from "Fawlty Towers"

Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Wednesday 22 March 2017 17:26:56 Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 03/22/2017 10:33 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > On Wednesday 22 March 2017 14:53:24 Richard Owlett wrote:
> >> On 03/22/2017 09:28 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday 22 March 2017 14:05:28 Richard Owlett wrote:
>  The results of the 6 installs I intended to run:
>  [the only variable being which DE related boxes checked]
>  [space used reported by gparted]
> 1. None
>    CLI installed taking ~.92 GB
> 2. Only top entry checked (asking for unspecified desktop)
>    Gnome installed taking ~3.59 GB
> 3. Top entry *and* Gnome checked
>    Gnome installed taking ~3.59 GB
> 4. Top entry *and* MATE checked
>    MATE installed taking ~2.65 GB
> 5. Gnome only checked
>    Gnome installed taking ~3.59 GB
> 6. MATE only checked
>    MATE installed taking ~2.65 GB
>  Tests 1-6 were run were run from a flash drive copy of DVD1.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks, Richard.  And are you able to confirm that, by default, the top
> >>> entry is checked, and you have to  uncheck it to achieve option 1?
> >>
> >> That is correct.
> >>
> >> HOWEVER that line of thought is why I included my 1st paragraph on the
> >> "educational" problems encountered.
> >> 
> >> My "educational" failure was in attempting to create a preseed.cfg file
> >> so the tests would require minimal hands on attention. I wanted the
> >> tasksel screen to appear. I did not succeed. Instead the installer went
> >> on its merry way installing Gnome in ~3.67 (not the ~3.59 GB of other
> >> runs). 
> >>
> >> I've never used netinst and don't know if my failed preseed.cfg might
> >> resemble it.
> >
> > Thank you.  I prefer facts to alternative facts or guesses!  I must play
> > around with net install when I have got both time and a suitable
> > platform!
> >
> > In all this talk of Debian being the universal operating system, and
> > helping newbies, no mention has been made of the Live CD installation
> > method, which I should have though was ideal for those who want their
> > hands held.  That perception may be false, but is why I barely go near
> > it!  I use Knoppix when I want a Live CD and the net install disk when I
> > want to install Debian.
>
> I had a "Live 8.6 MATE" DVD next to me.
> I had a minor glitch and a possibly significant problem.
> The minor glitch was when launching the installer it needed a password.
> Having seen that problem reported before, entering "live" got it going.
>
> The possibly significant problem was inability to install grub.
> I say "possibly significant" because my test machine and installation
> routines have a few oddities.
>
> I manually partitioned *AND* defeated using a swap partition as it would
> have changed the UUID of my swap partition thus messing up my exiting
> installs (have 3 active at the moment).
>
> Not installing grub was no problem for me as I don't install it anyway,
> choosing to run update-grub under control of the install on /dev/sda1.

Interesting.  I wonder whether that would apply to all the mainstream Live 
CDs, or just the Mate one?  I think they may be very individual.  I know the 
Trinity unofficial one was, until it became the Devuan one anyway.  But it 
installed OK, ran well both live and installed, and told you what password to 
use in the accompanying documentation.

Now that I think one could criticise, since it should actually run.  If Martin 
Wimpress ever actually turns up to a meeting, instead of saying that he is 
hoping to come, I shall tell him so!!

Thanks again.

Lisi

Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[Richard Owlett]

On 03/22/2017 10:33 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote:

On Wednesday 22 March 2017 14:53:24 Richard Owlett wrote:

On 03/22/2017 09:28 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote:

On Wednesday 22 March 2017 14:05:28 Richard Owlett wrote:

The results of the 6 installs I intended to run:
[the only variable being which DE related boxes checked]
[space used reported by gparted]
   1. None
  CLI installed taking ~.92 GB
   2. Only top entry checked (asking for unspecified desktop)
  Gnome installed taking ~3.59 GB
   3. Top entry *and* Gnome checked
  Gnome installed taking ~3.59 GB
   4. Top entry *and* MATE checked
  MATE installed taking ~2.65 GB
   5. Gnome only checked
  Gnome installed taking ~3.59 GB
   6. MATE only checked
  MATE installed taking ~2.65 GB
Tests 1-6 were run were run from a flash drive copy of DVD1.


Thanks, Richard.  And are you able to confirm that, by default, the top
entry is checked, and you have to  uncheck it to achieve option 1?


That is correct.

HOWEVER that line of thought is why I included my 1st paragraph on the
"educational" problems encountered.

My "educational" failure was in attempting to create a preseed.cfg file
so the tests would require minimal hands on attention. I wanted the
tasksel screen to appear. I did not succeed. Instead the installer went
on its merry way installing Gnome in ~3.67 (not the ~3.59 GB of other
runs). 

I've never used netinst and don't know if my failed preseed.cfg might
resemble it.


Thank you.  I prefer facts to alternative facts or guesses!  I must play
around with net install when I have got both time and a suitable platform!

In all this talk of Debian being the universal operating system, and helping
newbies, no mention has been made of the Live CD installation method, which I
should have though was ideal for those who want their hands held.  That
perception may be false, but is why I barely go near it!  I use Knoppix when
I want a Live CD and the net install disk when I want to install Debian.



I had a "Live 8.6 MATE" DVD next to me.
I had a minor glitch and a possibly significant problem.
The minor glitch was when launching the installer it needed a password.
Having seen that problem reported before, entering "live" got it going.

The possibly significant problem was inability to install grub.
I say "possibly significant" because my test machine and installation 
routines have a few oddities.


I manually partitioned *AND* defeated using a swap partition as it would 
have changed the UUID of my swap partition thus messing up my exiting 
installs (have 3 active at the moment).


Not installing grub was no problem for me as I don't install it anyway, 
choosing to run update-grub under control of the install on /dev/sda1.

Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Wednesday 22 March 2017 14:53:24 Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 03/22/2017 09:28 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > On Wednesday 22 March 2017 14:05:28 Richard Owlett wrote:
> >> The results of the 6 installs I intended to run:
> >> [the only variable being which DE related boxes checked]
> >> [space used reported by gparted]
> >>1. None
> >>   CLI installed taking ~.92 GB
> >>2. Only top entry checked (asking for unspecified desktop)
> >>   Gnome installed taking ~3.59 GB
> >>3. Top entry *and* Gnome checked
> >>   Gnome installed taking ~3.59 GB
> >>4. Top entry *and* MATE checked
> >>   MATE installed taking ~2.65 GB
> >>5. Gnome only checked
> >>   Gnome installed taking ~3.59 GB
> >>6. MATE only checked
> >>   MATE installed taking ~2.65 GB
> >> Tests 1-6 were run were run from a flash drive copy of DVD1.
> >
> > Thanks, Richard.  And are you able to confirm that, by default, the top
> > entry is checked, and you have to  uncheck it to achieve option 1?
>
> That is correct.
>
> HOWEVER that line of thought is why I included my 1st paragraph on the
> "educational" problems encountered.
> 
> My "educational" failure was in attempting to create a preseed.cfg file
> so the tests would require minimal hands on attention. I wanted the
> tasksel screen to appear. I did not succeed. Instead the installer went
> on its merry way installing Gnome in ~3.67 (not the ~3.59 GB of other
> runs). 
>
> I've never used netinst and don't know if my failed preseed.cfg might
> resemble it.

Thank you.  I prefer facts to alternative facts or guesses!  I must play 
around with net install when I have got both time and a suitable platform!

In all this talk of Debian being the universal operating system, and helping 
newbies, no mention has been made of the Live CD installation method, which I 
should have though was ideal for those who want their hands held.  That 
perception may be false, but is why I barely go near it!  I use Knoppix when 
I want a Live CD and the net install disk when I want to install Debian.

Lisi

Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[Richard Owlett]

On 03/22/2017 09:28 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote:

On Wednesday 22 March 2017 14:05:28 Richard Owlett wrote:

The results of the 6 installs I intended to run:
[the only variable being which DE related boxes checked]
[space used reported by gparted]
   1. None
  CLI installed taking ~.92 GB
   2. Only top entry checked (asking for unspecified desktop)
  Gnome installed taking ~3.59 GB
   3. Top entry *and* Gnome checked
  Gnome installed taking ~3.59 GB
   4. Top entry *and* MATE checked
  MATE installed taking ~2.65 GB
   5. Gnome only checked
  Gnome installed taking ~3.59 GB
   6. MATE only checked
  MATE installed taking ~2.65 GB
Tests 1-6 were run were run from a flash drive copy of DVD1.


Thanks, Richard.  And are you able to confirm that, by default, the top entry
is checked, and you have to  uncheck it to achieve option 1?



That is correct.

HOWEVER that line of thought is why I included my 1st paragraph on the 
"educational" problems encountered.


My "educational" failure was in attempting to create a preseed.cfg file 
so the tests would require minimal hands on attention. I wanted the 
tasksel screen to appear. I did not succeed. Instead the installer went 
on its merry way installing Gnome in ~3.67 (not the ~3.59 GB of other runs).



I've never used netinst and don't know if my failed preseed.cfg might 
resemble it.

Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Wednesday 22 March 2017 14:05:28 Richard Owlett wrote:
> The results of the 6 installs I intended to run:
> [the only variable being which DE related boxes checked]
> [space used reported by gparted]
>    1. None
>       CLI installed taking ~.92 GB
>    2. Only top entry checked (asking for unspecified desktop)
>       Gnome installed taking ~3.59 GB
>    3. Top entry *and* Gnome checked
>       Gnome installed taking ~3.59 GB
>    4. Top entry *and* MATE checked
>       MATE installed taking ~2.65 GB
>    5. Gnome only checked
>       Gnome installed taking ~3.59 GB
>    6. MATE only checked
>       MATE installed taking ~2.65 GB
> Tests 1-6 were run were run from a flash drive copy of DVD1.

Thanks, Richard.  And are you able to confirm that, by default, the top entry 
is checked, and you have to  uncheck it to achieve option 1?

Lisi

Re: test

[steve]

C'est revenu :-)

Bonne semaine à tous !

Re: test

[bernard schoenacker]

On Mon, 28 Nov 2016 08:40:20 +0100
steve  wrote:

> pas de message depuis 3 jours. La liste est-elle encore en vie ?

bonjour,

et voici quelques morceaux de musique :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfExybMc3o4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqiG8BpV1GE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_qp26NHyTg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qmnfVvZkz8

-- 
bernard schoenacker 

Re: test

[Christophe Musseau]

Il me semble. ça doit être le syndrome "achats de Noël" qui débute

Le 28 novembre 2016 à 08:40, steve  a écrit :

> pas de message depuis 3 jours. La liste est-elle encore en vie ?
>
>


-- 
Christophe MUSSEAU

(sous Debian GNU/Linux - https://www.debian.org)