Re: Has anyone heard from Ric Moore lately?

[Lisi Reisz]

On Tuesday 14 July 2015 12:47:05 Gene Heskett wrote:
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 

on list 2 weeks ago
https://lists.debian.org/5591d0f1.4070...@gmail.com 

3 weeks ago off list

When is recently?  I was thinking he had been a bit silent, but was thinking 
that I still had to reply to him, rather than that his silence was sinister.

I'll mail him and see if I get a reply.  Have you tried and failed?

Lisi


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Has anyone heard from Ric Moore lately?

[Gene Heskett]

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


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Re: typescript of terminal session (was: Was: Ric Moore)

[Cindy-Sue Causey]

On 1/23/15, Cindy-Sue Causey  wrote:
> On 1/22/15, Chris Bannister  wrote:
>> On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 02:41:10AM -0500, Cindy-Sue Causey wrote:
>>>
>>> Ok, sooo... I went ahead and tried asciinema. FAIR WARNING: When it
>>> asks you if you want to upload your session, it *uploads* your session
>>> *onto the Net*:
>>>
>>> https://asciinema.org/a/15577
>>
>> That doesn't sound too good.
>
>
> Not only that but I've tried it a few more times... It... if you have
> an active sudo session running and then start it as an afterthought,
> you have to enter your password again.
>
> ?


The *only* thing keeping the heebie-jeebies from running all OVER me
right now is exactly the topic of the nearby "Q: Best Practices for
3rd party APT sources for security considerations?" thread.

My /etc/apt/sources.list has *one* single line in it that points
straight to the mother ship, Debian.org..

*TRUST*

?

Cindy :)

-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with plastic sporks *


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Re: typescript of terminal session (was: Was: Ric Moore)

[Cindy-Sue Causey]

On 1/22/15, Chris Bannister  wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 02:41:10AM -0500, Cindy-Sue Causey wrote:
>>
>> Ok, sooo... I went ahead and tried asciinema. FAIR WARNING: When it
>> asks you if you want to upload your session, it *uploads* your session
>> *onto the Net*:
>>
>> https://asciinema.org/a/15577
>
> That doesn't sound too good.


Not only that but I've tried it a few more times... It... if you have
an active sudo session running and then start it as an afterthought,
you have to enter your password again.

?

Cindy

-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with plastic sporks *


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Re: typescript of terminal session (was: Was: Ric Moore)

[Chris Bannister]

On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 02:41:10AM -0500, Cindy-Sue Causey wrote:
> On 1/19/15, Cindy-Sue Causey  wrote:
> >
> > I just tried a long shot with "apt-cache search record terminal"
> >
> > Got back couple interesting looking things. That one on top is right
> > where it showed up, top of the search. Haven't downloaded and tested
> > but description sure fits. :)
> >
> > asciinema - Record and share your terminal sessions, the right way
> > fbterm - A fast framebuffer based terminal emulator for Linux
> > irssi-scripts - collection of scripts for irssi
> > libterm-filter-perl - Perl module to run an interactive terminal
> > session, filtering input and output
> > libutempter-dev - A privileged helper for utmp/wtmp updates (development)
> > libutempter0 - A privileged helper for utmp/wtmp updates (runtime)
> > lifelines - text-based genealogy software
> > nama - Ecasound-based multitrack recorder/mixer
> > python-colorlog - formatter to use with the logging module of Python 2
> > python3-colorlog - formatter to use with the logging module of Python 3
> > shelr - Utility for plain text screencasting
> > ttyrec - Terminal interaction recorder and player (for tty)
> 
> 
> Well, I was going to segregate this out but realized it should just stay here.
> 
> Ok, sooo... I went ahead and tried asciinema. FAIR WARNING: When it
> asks you if you want to upload your session, it *uploads* your session
> *onto the Net*:
> 
> https://asciinema.org/a/15577

That doesn't sound too good.

-- 
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X


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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 20 January 2015 08:57:14 Richard Owlett did opine
And Gene did reply:
> Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Monday 19 January 2015 10:13:20 Richard Owlett did opine
> > 
> > And Gene did reply:
> >> Gene Heskett wrote:
> >>> On Sunday 18 January 2015 18:21:02 Mart van de Wege did opine
> >>> [SNIP]
> >>> 
>  apt-get remove network-manager seems to work just fine for me.
>  
>  Mart
> >>> 
> >>> I have attempted that, several times in the past 5 or 6 years.  The
> >>> list of stuff it will also remove is usually several printed pages,
> >>> IF you could actually get a printout. Unfortunately, you can't even
> >>> copy/paste for a record from that screen by any method but a screen
> >>> snapshot series. [snip]
> >> 
> >> I had a similar problem some time back.
> >> Someone pointed me to a utility that saved everything sent to a
> >> console window.
> >> It was not "redirection" nor a "pipe" as the console retained all
> >> its functionality.
> >> 
> >> The procedure was:
> >> start the utility in the console specifying a destination file
> >> run arbitrary number of commands
> >> 
> >>[the utility recording input keystrokes and resulting output]
> >> 
> >> terminate the utility
> >> close console if desired
> >> 
> >> I understand the typical use of the utility is in a classroom
> >> situation where instructor needs to see exactly what the student
> >> did. I know I saved the message but I can't come up with keywords
> >> to retrieve it.
> > 
> > Sounds handy, but how does it handle an application open window whose
> > contents cannot be copy/pasted?
> > 
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> 
> I don't follow you.
> My response was to your Jan 18 post
> [https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/01/msg00628.html]
> saying that "apt-get remove network-manager" generated a
> multi-page list of files to be removed and it was not possible to
> cut-n-paste to a file suitable for review at leisure.
> 
> "script"
> [http://manpages.debian.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi?query=script] seems
> to satisfy your needs.
> 
> In a root terminal type:
> 
> script
> apt-get remove network-manager
> 
> {terminate apt-get by entering n}
> {terminate script by entering cntrl-D}
> 
> There will be a file titled "typescript" in your home folder.
> HTH

This I have to assume works.  What I was referring to was all the popup 
windows that synaptic uses, the contents of are NOT copy/paste able.

This morning I am attepting to format and make ready a disk for a new 
wheezy install.  But not I find the installer, even in the expert mode, 
will not allow the partitioner to be bypassed, nor can the do not use 
shown when a partition is selected, be changed to use this one for (fill 
in the blank, like "/boot" or "/".

So the so-called expert installer mode is still dumber than a rock.

Is there a magic key that will let me do this?  The last wheezy install, 
on this same disk, blew it, every partition start AND stop wasn't aligned 
properly.

Thanks.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 
US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS


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Re: typescript of terminal session (was: Was: Ric Moore)

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 20 January 2015 09:12:49 Curt did opine
And Gene did reply:
> On 2015-01-20, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > 2 of my 4 1Tb disks are reporting 512/4096for sector sizes.
> > 
> > GParted, even with round to cylinders checked, seems helpless at
> > fixing this.
> 
> Really?  This seems to imply the contrary:
> 
> http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-linux-on-4kb-sector-disks/i
> ndex.html
> 
> "Figure 8. Take care to set the Align to value to MiB when creating
> partitions with GParted"
> 
> Of course, I don't know shit from shinola about this stuff.

The liveCD version 20-0-2 I just dl & burnt, does know about this.  The 
5.something available on this elderly buntu install hasn't a clue.

So now the disk is ready, but the installer won't let me past the broken 
partitioner/formatter in it. So obviously I hit the reset button & removed 
the dvd as it rebooted.

Linux has had several years now to fix its installers to deal with this.  
Why not?  You could call me puzzled, but the air color and transparency  
here seems to describe a different descriptive term. :)

Thats how it seems to me anyway.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 
US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS


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Re: typescript of terminal session (was: Was: Ric Moore)

[Curt]

On 2015-01-20, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>
> 2 of my 4 1Tb disks are reporting 512/4096for sector sizes.
>
> GParted, even with round to cylinders checked, seems helpless at fixing 
> this.
>

Really?  This seems to imply the contrary:

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-linux-on-4kb-sector-disks/index.html

"Figure 8. Take care to set the Align to value to MiB when creating
partitions with GParted"

Of course, I don't know shit from shinola about this stuff.


-- 
“There’s no money in poetry, but then there’s no poetry in money,
either.” —Robert Graves


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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Richard Owlett]

Gene Heskett wrote:

On Monday 19 January 2015 10:13:20 Richard Owlett did opine
And Gene did reply:

Gene Heskett wrote:

On Sunday 18 January 2015 18:21:02 Mart van de Wege did opine
[SNIP]


apt-get remove network-manager seems to work just fine for me.

Mart


I have attempted that, several times in the past 5 or 6 years.  The
list of stuff it will also remove is usually several printed pages,
IF you could actually get a printout. Unfortunately, you can't even
copy/paste for a record from that screen by any method but a screen
snapshot series. [snip]


I had a similar problem some time back.
Someone pointed me to a utility that saved everything sent to a
console window.
It was not "redirection" nor a "pipe" as the console retained all
its functionality.

The procedure was:
start the utility in the console specifying a destination file
run arbitrary number of commands
   [the utility recording input keystrokes and resulting output]
terminate the utility
close console if desired

I understand the typical use of the utility is in a classroom
situation where instructor needs to see exactly what the student
did. I know I saved the message but I can't come up with keywords
to retrieve it.


Sounds handy, but how does it handle an application open window whose
contents cannot be copy/pasted?

Cheers, Gene Heskett



I don't follow you.
My response was to your Jan 18 post 
[https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/01/msg00628.html] 
saying that "apt-get remove network-manager" generated a 
multi-page list of files to be removed and it was not possible to 
cut-n-paste to a file suitable for review at leisure.


"script" 
[http://manpages.debian.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi?query=script] seems 
to satisfy your needs.


In a root terminal type:

script
apt-get remove network-manager

{terminate apt-get by entering n}
{terminate script by entering cntrl-D}

There will be a file titled "typescript" in your home folder.
HTH




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Re: typescript of terminal session (was: Was: Ric Moore)

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 20 January 2015 01:40:23 Joel Roth did opine
And Gene did reply:
> Alberto Luaces wrote:
> > Richard Owlett  writes:
> > > Gene Heskett wrote:
> > >> On Sunday 18 January 2015 18:21:02 Mart van de Wege did opine
> > >> [SNIP]
> > >> 
> > >>> apt-get remove network-manager seems to work just fine for me.
> > >>> 
> > >>> Mart
> > >> 
> > >> I have attempted that, several times in the past 5 or 6 years. 
> > >> The list of stuff it will also remove is usually several printed
> > >> pages, IF you could actually get a printout. Unfortunately, you
> > >> can't even copy/paste for a record from that screen by any method
> > >> but a screen snapshot series. [snip]
> > > 
> > > I had a similar problem some time back.
> > > Someone pointed me to a utility that saved everything sent to a
> > > console window.
> > > It was not "redirection" nor a "pipe" as the console retained all
> > > its functionality.
> > > 
> > > The procedure was:
> > >   start the utility in the console specifying a destination file
> > >   run arbitrary number of commands
> > >   
> > >  [the utility recording input keystrokes and resulting output]
> > >   
> > >   terminate the utility
> > >   close console if desired
> > > 
> > > I understand the typical use of the utility is in a classroom
> > > situation where instructor needs to see exactly what the student
> > > did. I know I saved the message but I can't come up with keywords
> > > to retrieve it.
> > 
> > "script" in bsdutils package?
> 
> I use Gnu screen to multiplex terminal sessions.
> There is a scroll back function, invoked by default
> keybinding Ctrl-a [ , then pressing SPACE to mark
> the beginning and the end of the region to copy to
> the paste buffer.
> 
> Then paste with Ctrl-a ]  either into another application,
> or after "cat > somefile.txt" or "cat | xsel -b" (copy to
> X11 paste buffer for paste by Ctrl-v). Terminate the input
> by Ctrl-d on a new line.
> 
> cheers,

Thanks Joel, marked as important so I can find it for later use.

This mornings problem is disk partitioning tools.  Trying to setup a disk 
for a new wheezy install.

Do we in fact have a disk partitioner that properly handles a disk with a 
native 4096 sector size?

2 of my 4 1Tb disks are reporting 512/4096for sector sizes.

GParted, even with round to cylinders checked, seems helpless at fixing 
this.

Thanks all.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 
US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS


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Re: typescript of terminal session (was: Was: Ric Moore)

[Cindy-Sue Causey]

Am editing an important *oops* where a command is misspelled. Not sure
the proper protocol for doing this so will addend it up here.

"asciiname auth" should read "asciinema auth"..:


On 1/20/15, Cindy-Sue Causey  wrote:
> On 1/19/15, Cindy-Sue Causey  wrote:
>>
>> I just tried a long shot with "apt-cache search record terminal"
>>
>> Got back couple interesting looking things. That one on top is right
>> where it showed up, top of the search. Haven't downloaded and tested
>> but description sure fits. :)
>>
>> asciinema - Record and share your terminal sessions, the right way
>> fbterm - A fast framebuffer based terminal emulator for Linux
>> irssi-scripts - collection of scripts for irssi
>> libterm-filter-perl - Perl module to run an interactive terminal
>> session, filtering input and output
>> libutempter-dev - A privileged helper for utmp/wtmp updates (development)
>> libutempter0 - A privileged helper for utmp/wtmp updates (runtime)
>> lifelines - text-based genealogy software
>> nama - Ecasound-based multitrack recorder/mixer
>> python-colorlog - formatter to use with the logging module of Python 2
>> python3-colorlog - formatter to use with the logging module of Python 3
>> shelr - Utility for plain text screencasting
>> ttyrec - Terminal interaction recorder and player (for tty)
>
>
> Well, I was going to segregate this out but realized it should just stay
> here.
>
> Ok, sooo... I went ahead and tried asciinema. FAIR WARNING: When it
> asks you if you want to upload your session, it *uploads* your session
> *onto the Net*:
>
> https://asciinema.org/a/15577
>
> I am *so* grateful I didn't get the bright idea to type anything foul.
>
> It's relatively small as a download, some 400+ KB, I think it was. Not
> knowing any better, I just typed in "asciinema" and ran with it. That
> worked, but their website says use "asciinema rec" with a notation
> that that is the default if a user does what I did..
>
> It was freaky, in fact just this side of instantly frightening for a
> few minutes after I realized something I was innocently typing
> privately here in a terminal hit the Net that fast in its raw form.
>
> After watching the video cast and realizing it appeared reasonably
> "safe", I tried the login button. They send a link, you click it, and
> boom, you've got a profile pic pulled from Facebook if you use that.
>
> That asciicast I did by accident was just sitting out there. To claim
> something like that, you type "asciinema auth" [EDITED FOR
> SPELLING] which then provides you
> with a URL you visit. I followed the process, and that asciicast is
> now attached to my new account.
>
> Privacy wise this has a definite "heebie-jeebie" feeling attached to
> it. Maybe it's old hat to other list members, and that feeling is just
> because I'm new to a lot of this type of thing yet. :)
>
> Speaking of privacy, one of the threads I saw last couple days was
> about password quality here on home computers. I saw the exchange
> about to share or not share user and hostName kind of things. This
> shares it.. IN FACT part of the initial "shock" was it instantly
> created a user name of "elf" for my at that second anonymous asciicast
> sitting on their server
>
> Hope you find what you're looking for.. Just thought I'd better type
> this up since the experience was anything but what I was expecting
> coming into it cold. I do think I like it. I can see a great
> educational tool aspect to it.. :)
>
> Cindy :)
>
> --
> Cindy-Sue Causey
> Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA
>
> * runs with plastic sporks *


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Re: typescript of terminal session (was: Was: Ric Moore)

[Cindy-Sue Causey]

On 1/19/15, Cindy-Sue Causey  wrote:
>
> I just tried a long shot with "apt-cache search record terminal"
>
> Got back couple interesting looking things. That one on top is right
> where it showed up, top of the search. Haven't downloaded and tested
> but description sure fits. :)
>
> asciinema - Record and share your terminal sessions, the right way
> fbterm - A fast framebuffer based terminal emulator for Linux
> irssi-scripts - collection of scripts for irssi
> libterm-filter-perl - Perl module to run an interactive terminal
> session, filtering input and output
> libutempter-dev - A privileged helper for utmp/wtmp updates (development)
> libutempter0 - A privileged helper for utmp/wtmp updates (runtime)
> lifelines - text-based genealogy software
> nama - Ecasound-based multitrack recorder/mixer
> python-colorlog - formatter to use with the logging module of Python 2
> python3-colorlog - formatter to use with the logging module of Python 3
> shelr - Utility for plain text screencasting
> ttyrec - Terminal interaction recorder and player (for tty)


Well, I was going to segregate this out but realized it should just stay here.

Ok, sooo... I went ahead and tried asciinema. FAIR WARNING: When it
asks you if you want to upload your session, it *uploads* your session
*onto the Net*:

https://asciinema.org/a/15577

I am *so* grateful I didn't get the bright idea to type anything foul.

It's relatively small as a download, some 400+ KB, I think it was. Not
knowing any better, I just typed in "asciinema" and ran with it. That
worked, but their website says use "asciinema rec" with a notation
that that is the default if a user does what I did..

It was freaky, in fact just this side of instantly frightening for a
few minutes after I realized something I was innocently typing
privately here in a terminal hit the Net that fast in its raw form.

After watching the video cast and realizing it appeared reasonably
"safe", I tried the login button. They send a link, you click it, and
boom, you've got a profile pic pulled from Facebook if you use that.

That asciicast I did by accident was just sitting out there. To claim
something like that, you type "asciiname auth" which then provides you
with a URL you visit. I followed the process, and that asciicast is
now attached to my new account.

Privacy wise this has a definite "heebie-jeebie" feeling attached to
it. Maybe it's old hat to other list members, and that feeling is just
because I'm new to a lot of this type of thing yet. :)

Speaking of privacy, one of the threads I saw last couple days was
about password quality here on home computers. I saw the exchange
about to share or not share user and hostName kind of things. This
shares it.. IN FACT part of the initial "shock" was it instantly
created a user name of "elf" for my at that second anonymous asciicast
sitting on their server

Hope you find what you're looking for.. Just thought I'd better type
this up since the experience was anything but what I was expecting
coming into it cold. I do think I like it. I can see a great
educational tool aspect to it.. :)

Cindy :)

-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with plastic sporks *


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Re: typescript of terminal session (was: Was: Ric Moore)

[Joel Roth]

Alberto Luaces wrote:
> Richard Owlett  writes:
> 
> > Gene Heskett wrote:
> >> On Sunday 18 January 2015 18:21:02 Mart van de Wege did opine
> >> [SNIP]
> >>>
> >>> apt-get remove network-manager seems to work just fine for me.
> >>>
> >>> Mart
> >>
> >> I have attempted that, several times in the past 5 or 6 years.  The list
> >> of stuff it will also remove is usually several printed pages, IF you
> >> could actually get a printout. Unfortunately, you can't even copy/paste
> >> for a record from that screen by any method but a screen snapshot series.
> >> [snip]
> >
> > I had a similar problem some time back.
> > Someone pointed me to a utility that saved everything sent to a
> > console window.
> > It was not "redirection" nor a "pipe" as the console retained all its
> > functionality.
> >
> > The procedure was:
> >   start the utility in the console specifying a destination file
> >   run arbitrary number of commands
> >  [the utility recording input keystrokes and resulting output]
> >   terminate the utility
> >   close console if desired
> >
> > I understand the typical use of the utility is in a classroom
> > situation where instructor needs to see exactly what the student
> > did. I know I saved the message but I can't come up with keywords to
> > retrieve it.
> >
> 
> "script" in bsdutils package?

I use Gnu screen to multiplex terminal sessions. 
There is a scroll back function, invoked by default
keybinding Ctrl-a [ , then pressing SPACE to mark 
the beginning and the end of the region to copy to 
the paste buffer. 

Then paste with Ctrl-a ]  either into another application,
or after "cat > somefile.txt" or "cat | xsel -b" (copy to
X11 paste buffer for paste by Ctrl-v). Terminate the input
by Ctrl-d on a new line.

cheers,

-- 
Joel Roth
  


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Re: typescript of terminal session (was: Was: Ric Moore)

[Cindy-Sue Causey]

On 1/19/15, Alberto Luaces  wrote:
> Richard Owlett  writes:
>
>> Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> On Sunday 18 January 2015 18:21:02 Mart van de Wege did opine
>>>
>>> I have attempted that, several times in the past 5 or 6 years.  The list
>>> of stuff it will also remove is usually several printed pages, IF you
>>> could actually get a printout. Unfortunately, you can't even copy/paste
>>> for a record from that screen by any method but a screen snapshot
>>> series.
>>> [snip]
>>
>> I had a similar problem some time back.
>> Someone pointed me to a utility that saved everything sent to a
>> console window.
>> It was not "redirection" nor a "pipe" as the console retained all its
>> functionality.
>>
>> The procedure was:
>>   start the utility in the console specifying a destination file
>>   run arbitrary number of commands
>>  [the utility recording input keystrokes and resulting output]
>>   terminate the utility
>>   close console if desired
>>
>> I understand the typical use of the utility is in a classroom
>> situation where instructor needs to see exactly what the student
>> did. I know I saved the message but I can't come up with keywords to
>> retrieve it.
>>
>
> "script" in bsdutils package?


I just tried a long shot with "apt-cache search record terminal"

Got back couple interesting looking things. That one on top is right
where it showed up, top of the search. Haven't downloaded and tested
but description sure fits. :)

asciinema - Record and share your terminal sessions, the right way
fbterm - A fast framebuffer based terminal emulator for Linux
irssi-scripts - collection of scripts for irssi
libterm-filter-perl - Perl module to run an interactive terminal
session, filtering input and output
libutempter-dev - A privileged helper for utmp/wtmp updates (development)
libutempter0 - A privileged helper for utmp/wtmp updates (runtime)
lifelines - text-based genealogy software
nama - Ecasound-based multitrack recorder/mixer
python-colorlog - formatter to use with the logging module of Python 2
python3-colorlog - formatter to use with the logging module of Python 3
shelr - Utility for plain text screencasting
ttyrec - Terminal interaction recorder and player (for tty)

Cindy :)

-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with plastic sporks *


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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 19 January 2015 14:42:01 Joe did opine
And Gene did reply:
> On Mon, 19 Jan 2015 04:54:57 -0500
> 
> Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > But that leads to the next logical question:  What's the difference
> > between using apt-get to do that, and synaptic?
> > 
> > Synaptic would have literally torn down the system, removing libc6,
> > most of build-essentials among many many others.  I like synaptic,
> > but that difference is an eye opener for sure.
> 
> By default, Synaptic arrives with everything turned on: it does a
> full-upgrade/dist-upgrade, it treats recommends as dependencies, etc.
> 
> All of this can be disabled, just as it can be enabled in apt-get or
> aptitude.

Found that in the prefs.  Unfortunately I sic'd a root session of htop out 
to kill it 10 minutes later as it was frozen, using 96 to 98% of a cpu 
core steadily.  Ran it with a sudo as usual, but a sigterm was of no 
effect, had to use a sigkill. And when restarted, nothing had been 
changed. twice in a row just to check.

Is this known in synaptic-0.63.1?

> Horses for courses: they all do the same basic job, but with slightly
> different features. If I want to install, remove or purge a single
> application I know about, or do a routine upgrade, I normally use
> aptitude non-interactively. Nearly all my upgrade work is with
> unstable, and that does get into difficult situations from time to
> time, when some packages can't be upgraded without significant
> removals. I usually switch to Synaptic then, in which I find I can
> most easily set up the combinations of upgradable packages which work.
> 
> I upgrade my unstable workstation pretty much every day, but I have
> three or four other unstables which are used much more rarely, and get
> upgraded every few months, when I have the time. Aptitude is good at
> sorting out dependencies, supposedly still better than apt-get, but if
> you throw five or six hundred upgrades at it, it does often freak out
> and it sits there literally for hours working out combinations... so
> for these large-scale upgrades, an apt-get upgrade followed by a
> dist-upgrade seems to be the optimal choice. I don't generally do these
> occasional upgrades while there is a pending problem with unstable, so
> I don't usually have difficulties.

While I seem to have an attractant for them. :(

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 
US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS


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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Joe]

On Mon, 19 Jan 2015 04:54:57 -0500
Gene Heskett  wrote:


> 
> But that leads to the next logical question:  What's the difference 
> between using apt-get to do that, and synaptic?
> 
> Synaptic would have literally torn down the system, removing libc6,
> most of build-essentials among many many others.  I like synaptic,
> but that difference is an eye opener for sure.
> 

By default, Synaptic arrives with everything turned on: it does a
full-upgrade/dist-upgrade, it treats recommends as dependencies, etc.

All of this can be disabled, just as it can be enabled in apt-get or
aptitude.

Horses for courses: they all do the same basic job, but with slightly
different features. If I want to install, remove or purge a single
application I know about, or do a routine upgrade, I normally use
aptitude non-interactively. Nearly all my upgrade work is with unstable,
and that does get into difficult situations from time to time, when some
packages can't be upgraded without significant removals. I usually
switch to Synaptic then, in which I find I can most easily set up the
combinations of upgradable packages which work. 

I upgrade my unstable workstation pretty much every day, but I have
three or four other unstables which are used much more rarely, and get
upgraded every few months, when I have the time. Aptitude is good at
sorting out dependencies, supposedly still better than apt-get, but if
you throw five or six hundred upgrades at it, it does often freak out
and it sits there literally for hours working out combinations... so for
these large-scale upgrades, an apt-get upgrade followed by a
dist-upgrade seems to be the optimal choice. I don't generally do these
occasional upgrades while there is a pending problem with unstable, so
I don't usually have difficulties.

-- 
Joe


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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 19 January 2015 05:37:47 Lisi Reisz did opine
And Gene did reply:
> On Monday 19 January 2015 09:54:57 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > But that leads to the next logical question:  What's the difference
> > between using apt-get to do that, and synaptic?
> > 
> > Synaptic would have literally torn down the system, removing libc6,
> > most of build-essentials among many many others.  I like synaptic,
> > but that difference is an eye opener for sure.
> 
> I have used aptitude successfully to remove network mangler from
> systems in the past.  Without tearing down the system.  I personally
> have never liked synaptic.
> 
> Lisi

I have used it sparsely, its hot keys are hard to remember for me.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 
US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS


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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 19 January 2015 10:13:20 Richard Owlett did opine
And Gene did reply:
> Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Sunday 18 January 2015 18:21:02 Mart van de Wege did opine
> > [SNIP]
> > 
> >> apt-get remove network-manager seems to work just fine for me.
> >> 
> >> Mart
> > 
> > I have attempted that, several times in the past 5 or 6 years.  The
> > list of stuff it will also remove is usually several printed pages,
> > IF you could actually get a printout. Unfortunately, you can't even
> > copy/paste for a record from that screen by any method but a screen
> > snapshot series. [snip]
> 
> I had a similar problem some time back.
> Someone pointed me to a utility that saved everything sent to a
> console window.
> It was not "redirection" nor a "pipe" as the console retained all
> its functionality.
> 
> The procedure was:
>start the utility in the console specifying a destination file
>run arbitrary number of commands
>   [the utility recording input keystrokes and resulting output]
>terminate the utility
>close console if desired
> 
> I understand the typical use of the utility is in a classroom
> situation where instructor needs to see exactly what the student
> did. I know I saved the message but I can't come up with keywords
> to retrieve it.

Sounds handy, but how does it handle an application open window whose 
contents cannot be copy/pasted?

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 
US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS


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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Richard Owlett]

Karl E. Jorgensen wrote:

Hi

On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 09:13:20AM -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:

[snip]
I had a similar problem some time back.
Someone pointed me to a utility that saved everything sent to a
console window.
It was not "redirection" nor a "pipe" as the console retained all
its functionality.

The procedure was:
   start the utility in the console specifying a destination file
   run arbitrary number of commands
  [the utility recording input keystrokes and resulting output]
   terminate the utility
   close console if desired

I understand the typical use of the utility is in a classroom
situation where instructor needs to see exactly what the student
did. I know I saved the message but I can't come up with keywords to
retrieve it.


That sounds like the "script" command - it's in the bsdutils package
which should be installed by default.



Yes! And thanks also to the others giving the same answer.
This message will be flagged in a way that I can't lose it again 
- I hope ;/





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typescript of terminal session (was: Was: Ric Moore)

[Alberto Luaces]

Richard Owlett  writes:

> Gene Heskett wrote:
>> On Sunday 18 January 2015 18:21:02 Mart van de Wege did opine
>> [SNIP]
>>>
>>> apt-get remove network-manager seems to work just fine for me.
>>>
>>> Mart
>>
>> I have attempted that, several times in the past 5 or 6 years.  The list
>> of stuff it will also remove is usually several printed pages, IF you
>> could actually get a printout. Unfortunately, you can't even copy/paste
>> for a record from that screen by any method but a screen snapshot series.
>> [snip]
>
> I had a similar problem some time back.
> Someone pointed me to a utility that saved everything sent to a
> console window.
> It was not "redirection" nor a "pipe" as the console retained all its
> functionality.
>
> The procedure was:
>   start the utility in the console specifying a destination file
>   run arbitrary number of commands
>  [the utility recording input keystrokes and resulting output]
>   terminate the utility
>   close console if desired
>
> I understand the typical use of the utility is in a classroom
> situation where instructor needs to see exactly what the student
> did. I know I saved the message but I can't come up with keywords to
> retrieve it.
>

"script" in bsdutils package?

-- 
Alberto


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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Stephan Seitz]

On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 09:13:20AM -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:
Someone pointed me to a utility that saved everything sent to a console 
window.


Was it script?
script — make typescript of terminal session

Shade and sweet water!

Stephan

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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Darac Marjal]

On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 09:13:20AM -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:
> Gene Heskett wrote:
> >On Sunday 18 January 2015 18:21:02 Mart van de Wege did opine
> >[SNIP]
> >>
> >>apt-get remove network-manager seems to work just fine for me.
> >>
> >>Mart
> >
> >I have attempted that, several times in the past 5 or 6 years.  The list
> >of stuff it will also remove is usually several printed pages, IF you
> >could actually get a printout. Unfortunately, you can't even copy/paste
> >for a record from that screen by any method but a screen snapshot series.
> >[snip]
> 
> I had a similar problem some time back.
> Someone pointed me to a utility that saved everything sent to a console
> window.
> It was not "redirection" nor a "pipe" as the console retained all its
> functionality.
> 
> The procedure was:
>   start the utility in the console specifying a destination file
>   run arbitrary number of commands
>  [the utility recording input keystrokes and resulting output]
>   terminate the utility
>   close console if desired

I suspect the program you're after is "script". And yes, many of the
really useful unix commands are really difficult to search for :)

> 
> I understand the typical use of the utility is in a classroom situation
> where instructor needs to see exactly what the student did. I know I saved
> the message but I can't come up with keywords to retrieve it.
> 
> 
> 
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Description: Digital signature

Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Karl E. Jorgensen]

Hi

On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 09:13:20AM -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:
> Gene Heskett wrote:
> >On Sunday 18 January 2015 18:21:02 Mart van de Wege did opine
> >[SNIP]
> >>
> >>apt-get remove network-manager seems to work just fine for me.
> >>
> >>Mart
> >
> >I have attempted that, several times in the past 5 or 6 years.  The list
> >of stuff it will also remove is usually several printed pages, IF you
> >could actually get a printout. Unfortunately, you can't even copy/paste
> >for a record from that screen by any method but a screen snapshot series.
> >[snip]
> 
> I had a similar problem some time back.
> Someone pointed me to a utility that saved everything sent to a
> console window.
> It was not "redirection" nor a "pipe" as the console retained all
> its functionality.
> 
> The procedure was:
>   start the utility in the console specifying a destination file
>   run arbitrary number of commands
>  [the utility recording input keystrokes and resulting output]
>   terminate the utility
>   close console if desired
> 
> I understand the typical use of the utility is in a classroom
> situation where instructor needs to see exactly what the student
> did. I know I saved the message but I can't come up with keywords to
> retrieve it.

That sounds like the "script" command - it's in the bsdutils package
which should be installed by default.
-- 
Karl E. Jorgensen


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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Richard Owlett]

Gene Heskett wrote:

On Sunday 18 January 2015 18:21:02 Mart van de Wege did opine
[SNIP]


apt-get remove network-manager seems to work just fine for me.

Mart


I have attempted that, several times in the past 5 or 6 years.  The list
of stuff it will also remove is usually several printed pages, IF you
could actually get a printout. Unfortunately, you can't even copy/paste
for a record from that screen by any method but a screen snapshot series.
[snip]


I had a similar problem some time back.
Someone pointed me to a utility that saved everything sent to a 
console window.
It was not "redirection" nor a "pipe" as the console retained all 
its functionality.


The procedure was:
  start the utility in the console specifying a destination file
  run arbitrary number of commands
 [the utility recording input keystrokes and resulting output]
  terminate the utility
  close console if desired

I understand the typical use of the utility is in a classroom 
situation where instructor needs to see exactly what the student 
did. I know I saved the message but I can't come up with keywords 
to retrieve it.




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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 19 January 2015 09:54:57 Gene Heskett wrote:
> But that leads to the next logical question:  What's the difference
> between using apt-get to do that, and synaptic?
>
> Synaptic would have literally torn down the system, removing libc6, most
> of build-essentials among many many others.  I like synaptic, but that
> difference is an eye opener for sure.

I have used aptitude successfully to remove network mangler from systems in 
the past.  Without tearing down the system.  I personally have never liked 
synaptic.

Lisi


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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Curt]

On 2015-01-19, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Thanks Mart.  Now I know how to cure that headache.  And will do exactly 
> that on my next install.
>

BTW, I don't know whether anyone has mentioned this yet, but you can "force
static network configuration by providing boot parameter
netcfg/disable_dhcp=true at the boot prompt. (Press F7 in boot screen
for more information.)"

https://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/FAQ


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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 19 January 2015 01:24:35 Mart van de Wege did opine
And Gene did reply:
> Gene Heskett  writes:
> > On Sunday 18 January 2015 18:21:02 Mart van de Wege did opine
> > 
> > And Gene did reply:
> >> Gene Heskett  writes:
> >> > On Sunday 18 January 2015 14:12:03 Joe did opine
> >> > 
> >> >> I don't have Gnome on the workstation either, but
> >> >> I do have various Gnome bits such as Nautilus. It really should
> >> >> be possible to avoid NM, but probably not without some effort.
> >> > 
> >> > Using information that it seems to me, is deliberately withheld
> >> > from the user.  Or I have not learned in 80 years, how to ask the
> >> > right question..
> >> 
> >> apt-get remove network-manager seems to work just fine for me.
> >> 
> >> Mart
> > 
> > I have attempted that, several times in the past 5 or 6 years.  The
> > list of stuff it will also remove is usually several printed pages,
> > IF you could actually get a printout.
> 
> Eh, no?
> 
> mvdwege@gaheris:~$ apt-cache rdepends network-manager | wc -l
> 40
> 
> And that includes all packages for which nm is a dependency, not just
> a hard Depends: *and* i386 packages (I run multi-arch).
> 
> And note that that this is an rdepends search. I have only 4 of those
> 40 packages installed (and 2 of those only by accident).
> 
> And taking a look at the list, there's a lot of non-essential stuff on
> there. About the only thing I'd consider anything near 'essential' is
> evolution, and that is only a Suggests: dependency.
> 
> > Unfortunately, you can't even copy/paste for a record from that
> > screen by any method but a screen snapshot series.
> 
> What is so difficult about 'select text, middle button paste'?

Thats on a pulldown somewhere? I am used to mouse highliting it, but the 
subsequent paste is always empty.
 
> I really wanted to cut you some slack, but I am forced to conclude that
> your problem is between the chair and the keyboard.

And historical as I was using synaptic.  I just tried your cli based call 
above, it listed only 10 packages, none of which were important to me, or 
used that I am aware of, and 3 of those were duplicates.

So I did an apt-get remove. I still have a network, yaa!

This install came with a custom rtai patched, non-pae kernel, based on 
ubuntu 10.04.4 LTS(Lucid) but as there is not any machinery attached to 
this machine, I have found that a 3.16.0 SMT kernel with 32 PAE is quite 
sufficient to run the simulator version when developing gcode for the real 
machinery.  The mode is rt-prempt.  But regardless of the kernel, the 
simulated version will not run on wheezy.  But another experiment was to 
install a 64 bit kernel based on 3.4-9-amd64.  That ran everything, faster 
and smoother than this machine has ever run before.  So I may see if I can 
build the amd64 version of this 3.16.0.  Separate project from this 
though.

But that leads to the next logical question:  What's the difference 
between using apt-get to do that, and synaptic?

Synaptic would have literally torn down the system, removing libc6, most 
of build-essentials among many many others.  I like synaptic, but that 
difference is an eye opener for sure.

> Mart

Thanks Mart.  Now I know how to cure that headache.  And will do exactly 
that on my next install.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 
US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS


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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Mart van de Wege]

Gene Heskett  writes:

> On Sunday 18 January 2015 18:21:02 Mart van de Wege did opine
> And Gene did reply:
>> Gene Heskett  writes:
>> > On Sunday 18 January 2015 14:12:03 Joe did opine
>> > 
>> >> I don't have Gnome on the workstation either, but
>> >> I do have various Gnome bits such as Nautilus. It really should be
>> >> possible to avoid NM, but probably not without some effort.
>> > 
>> > Using information that it seems to me, is deliberately withheld from
>> > the user.  Or I have not learned in 80 years, how to ask the right
>> > question..
>> 
>> apt-get remove network-manager seems to work just fine for me.
>> 
>> Mart
>
> I have attempted that, several times in the past 5 or 6 years.  The list 
> of stuff it will also remove is usually several printed pages, IF you 
> could actually get a printout.

Eh, no?

mvdwege@gaheris:~$ apt-cache rdepends network-manager | wc -l
40

And that includes all packages for which nm is a dependency, not just
a hard Depends: *and* i386 packages (I run multi-arch).

And note that that this is an rdepends search. I have only 4 of those 40
packages installed (and 2 of those only by accident).

And taking a look at the list, there's a lot of non-essential stuff on
there. About the only thing I'd consider anything near 'essential' is
evolution, and that is only a Suggests: dependency.


> Unfortunately, you can't even copy/paste for a record from that screen
> by any method but a screen snapshot series.
>
What is so difficult about 'select text, middle button paste'?

I really wanted to cut you some slack, but I am forced to conclude that
your problem is between the chair and the keyboard.

Mart

-- 
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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 18 January 2015 17:11:55 Andrew M.A. Cater did opine
And Gene did reply:
> On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 06:29:46AM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Sunday 18 January 2015 05:40:43 Andrew M.A. Cater did opine
> > [Gene]
> > Oh it usually does, until the initial reboot, at which time network
> > mangler steps in and destroys your work.
> 
> ... stuff snipped by Andy ...
> 
> > But no, thats too damned simple so it will never be done.
> 
> From the README.Debian on a system that has network-manager installed
> [in /usr/share/doc/README.Debian]
> 
> --
> 
> unmanaged devices and /etc/network/interfaces
> ~
> 
> Network devices which are configured in /etc/network/interfaces will
> typically be managed by ifupdown. Such devices will by default be
> marked as "unmanaged" in NetworkManager.
> 
> You can tell NetworkManager to read and use the network configuration
> from /etc/network/interfaces by editing
> /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf and changing the configuration
> as follows:
> 
>   [ifupdown]
>   managed=true
> 
> After modifying /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf or
> /etc/network/interfaces you need to restart the NetworkManager service
> via "service network-manager restart".
> 
> It needs to be considered though that the network interface will also
> still be managed by ifupdown. This can lead to unexpected behaviour if
> two network configuration systems manage the same device.
> 
> If you want to have a network interface managed by NetworkManager it is
> thus recommended to manually remove any configuration for that
> interface from /etc/network/interfaces.
> 
> --
> 
> An expert install in which you force the network addresses as I suggest
> should write /etc/network/interfaces correctly - which will
> effectively disable NM.
> 
> > [Andy]
> > 
> > > The key if you've stuff that's non standard is to do an Expert
> > > install.
> > 
> > What is "non-standard" about an /etc/hosts file based network? 
> > Nothing. I dare say it was invented long before dhcp.  And dns
> > servers.
> 
> These days a lot of people pick up addresses via DHCP from wireless
> access points / 3G GSM dongles / a pool of addresses from a wired
> network - or just an ISP modem/router (though that will normally give
> you a very long lease so, effectively, a static address). That's for
> IPV4. IPV6 may give you effectively, a static address, automagically
> generated and based on machine characteristics.
> 
> In that sense, a network of static addresses is now more unusual.
> 
> > > The other disks will be useful if you ever have to bootstrap a
> > > complete machine without access to a network: apt-cdrom add is
> > > then used to add the disks to your machine so that the package
> > > management system understands whtihc packages are on which disk.
> > > 
> > > Hope this helps,
> > > 
> > > All the best,
> > > 
> > > AndyC
> > 
> > It would help immensely AndyC, IF that is how it actually worked.
> > Sadly, it has not. IIRC the last install where it worked was mandrake
> > on my now ancient lappy about a dozen years back.  Before network
> > mangler? Maybe...
> 
> I've explained this in a few various posts over the years: if you have
> no network at all and have to install on a completely isolated
> machine, that's when you may need the 10 or more DVDs. Install a bare
> base system from the first one, add each disk via loop mount and
> apt-cdrom add.
> 
> After that, you can add packages and apt-get will prompt you for disk
> changes ... that's about the _only_ time that you need all the disk
> images rather than the first DVD. If you need to generate DVDs after
> DVD3, use jigdo to build them from your nearest mirror.
> 
> Me, I much prefer to use the netinst install. I do have fast broadband
> which really helps: there's also the fact that the install itself does
> a check on line so that all the latest base system updates are
> included by the time you reboot.
> 
> > But, in the unlikely event it might, I will try that when I go to do
> > the next install, probably some time in the coming week as the
> > weather people are telling us to bring in our brass monkeys again. 
> > Hopefully I can get some machining done on 2 big slabs of Mahogany
> > before then, but the cnc milling machine is located in an
> > un-insulated outbuilding with hopefully enough electrical heat to
> > keep it above the dew point.
> 
> Good luck: be safe - electricity, even at 110V, and water / damp don't
> mix. Happy to help someone who's prepared to _do_ stuff so well.

As a C.E.T., with what used to be a 1st phone ticket until the commission 
threw us under the bus, with an 8th grade education who has been lassoing 
electrons to make them do useful work for the last 65 years, I have been 
nailed several times, but each time he indicated he was not ready for me.
Once was pretty bad, put me horizontal with the shingles for about a 
month.

Quite used to the safety precautions associated wit

Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 18 January 2015 18:21:02 Mart van de Wege did opine
And Gene did reply:
> Gene Heskett  writes:
> > On Sunday 18 January 2015 14:12:03 Joe did opine
> > 
> >> I don't have Gnome on the workstation either, but
> >> I do have various Gnome bits such as Nautilus. It really should be
> >> possible to avoid NM, but probably not without some effort.
> > 
> > Using information that it seems to me, is deliberately withheld from
> > the user.  Or I have not learned in 80 years, how to ask the right
> > question..
> 
> apt-get remove network-manager seems to work just fine for me.
> 
> Mart

I have attempted that, several times in the past 5 or 6 years.  The list 
of stuff it will also remove is usually several printed pages, IF you 
could actually get a printout. Unfortunately, you can't even copy/paste 
for a record from that screen by any method but a screen snapshot series.

All this is a big sigh, and a list of things that could make it simpler to 
do if a record of what it proposes to remove could be had, but before the 
fact so one could do his own homework and make some more intelligent 
choices.

Thanks Mart.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 
US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS


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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Mart van de Wege]

Gene Heskett  writes:

> On Sunday 18 January 2015 14:12:03 Joe did opine
>
>> I don't have Gnome on the workstation either, but
>> I do have various Gnome bits such as Nautilus. It really should be
>> possible to avoid NM, but probably not without some effort.
>
> Using information that it seems to me, is deliberately withheld from the 
> user.  Or I have not learned in 80 years, how to ask the right question..
>

apt-get remove network-manager seems to work just fine for me.

Mart

-- 
"We will need a longer wall when the revolution comes."
--- AJS, quoting an uncertain source.


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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Mart van de Wege]

Joe  writes:

> On Sun, 18 Jan 2015 14:52:29 -0500
> Gene Heskett  wrote:
>
>
>> 
>> So how did you kill NM on your workstation?
>
> It was never there. It's a dependency of quite a lot of stuff, notably
> evolution

Here on my laptop (running Sid) it's not. I can remove it, and the only
thing that gets removed along with it is network-manager-gnome.

Evolution *used* to have a bug where it didn't want to work online
unless network manager was installed, but that's the only thing I ever
found getting in the way.

My home network is mixed DHCP and static addresses, all my systems run
Networkmanager, and everything works fine.

Mart

-- 
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--- AJS, quoting an uncertain source.


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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 06:29:46AM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Sunday 18 January 2015 05:40:43 Andrew M.A. Cater did opine
> [Gene]
> Oh it usually does, until the initial reboot, at which time network 
> mangler steps in and destroys your work. 
... stuff snipped by Andy ... 
> 
> But no, thats too damned simple so it will never be done.

>From the README.Debian on a system that has network-manager installed [in
/usr/share/doc/README.Debian]

--

unmanaged devices and /etc/network/interfaces
~

Network devices which are configured in /etc/network/interfaces will typically
be managed by ifupdown. Such devices will by default be marked as "unmanaged"
in NetworkManager.

You can tell NetworkManager to read and use the network configuration from
/etc/network/interfaces by editing /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf
and changing the configuration as follows:

  [ifupdown]
  managed=true

After modifying /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf or
/etc/network/interfaces you need to restart the NetworkManager service via
"service network-manager restart".

It needs to be considered though that the network interface will also still be
managed by ifupdown. This can lead to unexpected behaviour if two network
configuration systems manage the same device.

If you want to have a network interface managed by NetworkManager it is thus
recommended to manually remove any configuration for that interface from
/etc/network/interfaces.

--

An expert install in which you force the network addresses as I suggest should
write /etc/network/interfaces correctly - which will effectively disable NM.

> [Andy]
> > The key if you've stuff that's non standard is to do an Expert install.
> 
> What is "non-standard" about an /etc/hosts file based network?  Nothing. I 
> dare say it was invented long before dhcp.  And dns servers.

These days a lot of people pick up addresses via DHCP from wireless access 
points
/ 3G GSM dongles / a pool of addresses from a wired network - or just an ISP 
modem/router (though that will normally give you a very long lease so, 
effectively,
a static address). That's for IPV4. IPV6 may give you effectively, a static 
address,
automagically generated and based on machine characteristics. 

In that sense, a network of static addresses is now more unusual.

> 
> > The other disks will be useful if you ever have to bootstrap a complete
> > machine without access to a network: apt-cdrom add is then used to add
> > the disks to your machine so that the package management system
> > understands whtihc packages are on which disk.
> > 
> > Hope this helps,
> > 
> > All the best,
> > 
> > AndyC
> 
> 
> It would help immensely AndyC, IF that is how it actually worked.
> Sadly, it has not. IIRC the last install where it worked was mandrake on 
> my now ancient lappy about a dozen years back.  Before network mangler?  
> Maybe...

I've explained this in a few various posts over the years: if you have no
network at all and have to install on a completely isolated machine, that's 
when 
you may need the 10 or more DVDs. Install a bare base system from the first one,
add each disk via loop mount and apt-cdrom add. 

After that, you can add packages and apt-get will prompt you for disk changes 
... that's about the _only_ time that you need all the disk images rather than 
the first DVD. If you need to generate DVDs after DVD3, use jigdo to build them 
from your nearest mirror.

Me, I much prefer to use the netinst install. I do have fast broadband which
really helps: there's also the fact that the install itself does a check on line
so that all the latest base system updates are included by the time you reboot.

> 
> But, in the unlikely event it might, I will try that when I go to do the 
> next install, probably some time in the coming week as the weather people 
> are telling us to bring in our brass monkeys again.  Hopefully I can get 
> some machining done on 2 big slabs of Mahogany before then, but the cnc 
> milling machine is located in an un-insulated outbuilding with hopefully 
> enough electrical heat to keep it above the dew point.

Good luck: be safe - electricity, even at 110V, and water / damp don't mix.
Happy to help someone who's prepared to _do_ stuff so well.

All the very best,

AndyC 

[amaca...@galactic.demon.co.uk / amaca...@debian.org - I've been a
Debian developer for a while now :) ]

> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
> US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS
> 


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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Joe]

On Sun, 18 Jan 2015 14:52:29 -0500
Gene Heskett  wrote:


> 
> So how did you kill NM on your workstation?

It was never there. It's a dependency of quite a lot of stuff, notably
evolution and ppp, but since I use neither I don't need it. But the
Gnome metapackage includes evolution, so if you just ask for 'Gnome',
you get NM.

This is an unstable installation with systemd deliberately installed
early in the process, so it's a bit unusual. As far as I recall:

wheezy netinstall with no options selected, so no X, DE, etc.
update/upgrade (I didn't bother getting the latest netinstall)
dist-upgrade to unstable
install systemd plus dependencies
install an edited set-selections from a previous unstable

The previous unstable had been upgraded with systemd, and had proved
to be, well, unstable. So I did a get-selections, trimmed it a bit, and
built a new installation as above, with systemd installed early, before
most other software. Stability is much better now.


> 
> Using information that it seems to me, is deliberately withheld from
> the user.  Or I have not learned in 80 years, how to ask the right
> question..
> 

I would try (as I have done for a couple of years) a completely
Gnome-less installation (I'm using Xfce as my DE these days), then add
the bits that I want, hoping that not too much bloat gets pulled in with
them. I like Nautilus and gedit more than the alternatives, and I'm
willing to put up with a bit of extra stuff to get them, similarly
Konqueror and k3b and one or two other KDE bits.

The various metapackages are very useful for beginners, but if there's
something a bit objectionable dragged in, then it's best to install
just the bits you actually want, and trust apt-get/aptitude to do the
right things with them. You should be able to make a minimal
installation of Xfce or LXDE and then install kmail, which should
hopefully only bring in the minimum necessary library support. If you
don't like the DE, you can install another, or just a window manager,
then make sure that starts instead of the initial DE.

-- 
Joe


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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 18 January 2015 14:12:03 Joe did opine
And Gene did reply:
> On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 15:38:25 -0500
> 
> Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > Unfortunately, the last 9 debian/ubuntu flavored installs, on 4
> > machines here, have all ran up against Network-Mangler, which
> > promptly tore down any attempts I successfully made to get it online.
> 
> .
> .
> .
> .
> 
> > Sorry, but network manager is a sore spot for my local network, and
> > will be until such time as it is no longer a daemon that cannot even
> > be killed.
> > 
> > This isn't winderz folks, get rid of useless crap please.
> 
> It may not be Windows, but if you have Gnome, it nearly is. How about a
> netinstall to Xfce, then if you really, really need some of Gnome,
> install it bit by bit and not with the metapackage? It may well be
> possible to get just the bits of Gnome that you want, without NM.

I tend to be WM agnostic as long as it can run kmail.
 
> I actually deliberately have NM on my netbook, laptop and boot-anywhere
> hard drive, all without Gnome. I use wi-fi, a mobile dongle and
> OpenVPN, and it seems to deal with all of them reasonably sensibly,
> though I certainly remember a time when it was utterly useless. I do
> have DHCP at home, and of course so does everywhere I use the mobile
> stuff.
> 
> I don't have NM on my home workstation, which uses that old-fashioned
> Ethernet cable stuff.

So do I, there is about a 100' piece of cat5 that has been blowing in the 
wind for a decade, running from the house to the shop building with the 
cnc machines in it, a small hub there feeds another 75 feet that runs back 
to the garage. What you call old & slow 100 megabit stuff, it Just 
Works(TM)  Amazingly, it even survived a 112+ mph wind in 2010 that took 
part of my roof off, all the board fencing down, and took 3, 55 foot 40 YO 
pines down by breaking them off 8 feet up in the air.  But that piece of 
cat5 is still there, and still working.

So how did you kill NM on your workstation?

> I don't have Gnome on the workstation either, but
> I do have various Gnome bits such as Nautilus. It really should be
> possible to avoid NM, but probably not without some effort.

Using information that it seems to me, is deliberately withheld from the 
user.  Or I have not learned in 80 years, how to ask the right question..

Thanks Joe.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 
US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS


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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Joe]

On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 15:38:25 -0500
Gene Heskett  wrote:


> 
> Unfortunately, the last 9 debian/ubuntu flavored installs, on 4
> machines here, have all ran up against Network-Mangler, which
> promptly tore down any attempts I successfully made to get it online.

.
.
.
.

> 
> Sorry, but network manager is a sore spot for my local network, and
> will be until such time as it is no longer a daemon that cannot even
> be killed.
> 
> This isn't winderz folks, get rid of useless crap please.
> 

It may not be Windows, but if you have Gnome, it nearly is. How about a
netinstall to Xfce, then if you really, really need some of Gnome,
install it bit by bit and not with the metapackage? It may well be
possible to get just the bits of Gnome that you want, without NM.

I actually deliberately have NM on my netbook, laptop and boot-anywhere
hard drive, all without Gnome. I use wi-fi, a mobile dongle and
OpenVPN, and it seems to deal with all of them reasonably sensibly,
though I certainly remember a time when it was utterly useless. I do
have DHCP at home, and of course so does everywhere I use the mobile
stuff.

I don't have NM on my home workstation, which uses that old-fashioned
Ethernet cable stuff. I don't have Gnome on the workstation either, but
I do have various Gnome bits such as Nautilus. It really should be
possible to avoid NM, but probably not without some effort.

-- 
Joe


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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 18 January 2015 05:40:43 Andrew M.A. Cater did opine
And Gene did reply:
> On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 03:38:25PM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Saturday 17 January 2015 13:04:09 Clive Standbridge did opine
> > 
> > And Gene did reply:
> > > > I assume it has a name, is this 7.8=Jessie?
> > > 
> > > Its name is wheezy. It's an update, not a new release. See:
> > > https://www.debian.org/releases/wheezy/
> > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-announce/2015/msg0.html
> > > 
> > > > Anybody else? FWIW, 7.8, all 3 dvd's in amd64 format, is being
> > > > downloaded now. So I'll give it one more try.
> > > 
> > > It's a bit late now, but you might have had much lighter download
> > > using the network installation CD. Three DVDs is about 13GB; I
> > > doubt that most installations would be that big. With the network
> > > installation you boot from a CD (222MB download) which then
> > > downloads only the packages that will be installed. See
> > > https://www.debian.org/CD/netinst/
> > 
> > Unfortunately, the last 9 debian/ubuntu flavored installs, on 4
> > machines here, have all ran up against Network-Mangler, which
> > promptly tore down
> 
> Hi Gene,
> 
> Burn DVD1. As that boots, tab down to Advanced options, Expert Install
> 
> [If you want other than Gnome, select alternative Desktop environments,
> then go back to select Expert install]
> 
> At the question where it asks you if you want to configure networking
> automatically, say no and put in the values for your network.
> 
> Work on through - at that point, you should have a machine that
> understands your network.

Oh it usually does, until the initial reboot, at which time network 
mangler steps in and destroys your work. That leaves me no choice but to 
emasculate its ability to change anything with a root session of chattr +i 
on the appropriate files.  Frankly I fail to see why, if we are to be 
stuck and even abused with this idiocy on our systems, why it can't first 
issue one ping to a globally available site, and if no response in about a 
second even if its halfway around this rock, then see what it can do about 
it.  A proper response OTOH would indicate that the network exists and is 
working, and it should go commit hari-kari by whatever means is suitable 
until such time as the user invokes it to connect to a strange wifi.

But no, thats too damned simple so it will never be done.

> The key if you've stuff that's non standard is to do an Expert install.

What is "non-standard" about an /etc/hosts file based network?  Nothing. I 
dare say it was invented long before dhcp.  And dns servers.

> The other disks will be useful if you ever have to bootstrap a complete
> machine without access to a network: apt-cdrom add is then used to add
> the disks to your machine so that the package management system
> understands whtihc packages are on which disk.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> All the best,
> 
> AndyC


It would help immensely AndyC, IF that is how it actually worked.
Sadly, it has not. IIRC the last install where it worked was mandrake on 
my now ancient lappy about a dozen years back.  Before network mangler?  
Maybe...

But, in the unlikely event it might, I will try that when I go to do the 
next install, probably some time in the coming week as the weather people 
are telling us to bring in our brass monkeys again.  Hopefully I can get 
some machining done on 2 big slabs of Mahogany before then, but the cnc 
milling machine is located in an un-insulated outbuilding with hopefully 
enough electrical heat to keep it above the dew point.

Yeah, you could call a JOAT.  Master of several but linux isn't that close 
to the top of the list.  But I don't ask for the Senior discount anymore, 
you get a lot more chuckles out of the counter help when you finish up 
your take-out order with "and don't forget the old fart discount".  ;-)

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 
US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS


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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 18 January 2015 06:00:55 Lisi Reisz did opine
And Gene did reply:
> On Saturday 17 January 2015 20:38:25 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Saturday 17 January 2015 13:04:09 Clive Standbridge did opine
> > 
> > > It's a bit late now, but you might have had much lighter download
> > > using the network installation CD. Three DVDs is about 13GB; I
> > > doubt that most installations would be that big. With the network
> > > installation you boot from a CD (222MB download) which then
> > > downloads only the packages that will be installed. See
> > > https://www.debian.org/CD/netinst/
> > 
> > Unfortunately, the last 9 debian/ubuntu flavored installs, on 4
> > machines here, have all ran up against Network-Mangler, which
> > promptly tore down any attempts I successfully made to get it
> > online.
> 
> [snip] 
> 
You got the order right. :)

> Gene -
> 
> I use the network install Debian CD and for years used static IPs.  No
> problem.  When it gets to the point of looking for a network you ask to
> set it up manually and do so.  Home and dry.  No problems.  No Network
> Mangler (If you *will* use Ubuntu what do you expect???).  Network set
> up how you want it.  You just have to stay awake and not blindly click
>  or let the defaults go ahead willly nilly.  ;-)
> 
> Lisi

We will see, sometime when its 5F outside this coming week.
Thanks Lisi.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 
US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS


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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Lisi Reisz]

On Saturday 17 January 2015 20:38:25 Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Saturday 17 January 2015 13:04:09 Clive Standbridge did opine
> > It's a bit late now, but you might have had much lighter download
> > using the network installation CD. Three DVDs is about 13GB; I doubt
> > that most installations would be that big. With the network
> > installation you boot from a CD (222MB download) which then downloads
> > only the packages that will be installed. See
> > https://www.debian.org/CD/netinst/
>
> Unfortunately, the last 9 debian/ubuntu flavored installs, on 4 machines
> here, have all ran up against Network-Mangler, which promptly tore down
> any attempts I successfully made to get it online.
[snip] 

Gene -

I use the network install Debian CD and for years used static IPs.  No 
problem.  When it gets to the point of looking for a network you ask to set 
it up manually and do so.  Home and dry.  No problems.  No Network Mangler 
(If you *will* use Ubuntu what do you expect???).  Network set up how you 
want it.  You just have to stay awake and not blindly click  or let 
the defaults go ahead willly nilly.  ;-)

Lisi


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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 03:38:25PM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Saturday 17 January 2015 13:04:09 Clive Standbridge did opine
> And Gene did reply:
> > > I assume it has a name, is this 7.8=Jessie?
> > 
> > Its name is wheezy. It's an update, not a new release. See:
> > https://www.debian.org/releases/wheezy/
> > https://lists.debian.org/debian-announce/2015/msg0.html
> > 
> > > Anybody else? FWIW, 7.8, all 3 dvd's in amd64 format, is being
> > > downloaded now. So I'll give it one more try.
> > 
> > It's a bit late now, but you might have had much lighter download
> > using the network installation CD. Three DVDs is about 13GB; I doubt
> > that most installations would be that big. With the network
> > installation you boot from a CD (222MB download) which then downloads
> > only the packages that will be installed. See
> > https://www.debian.org/CD/netinst/
> 
> Unfortunately, the last 9 debian/ubuntu flavored installs, on 4 machines 
> here, have all ran up against Network-Mangler, which promptly tore down 

Hi Gene,

Burn DVD1. As that boots, tab down to Advanced options, Expert Install

[If you want other than Gnome, select alternative Desktop environments, then go 
back to select Expert install]

At the question where it asks you if you want to configure networking 
automatically,
say no and put in the values for your network.

Work on through - at that point, you should have a machine that understands 
your network.

The key if you've stuff that's non standard is to do an Expert install.

The other disks will be useful if you ever have to bootstrap a complete machine 
without access to a network: apt-cdrom add 
is then used to add the disks to your machine so that the package management 
system understands whtihc packages are on 
which disk.

Hope this helps,

All the best,

AndyC


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Re: Re: Ric Moore

[Cindy-Sue Causey]

On 1/17/15, Clive Standbridge  wrote:
>
>> Anybody else? FWIW, 7.8, all 3 dvd's in amd64 format, is being
>> downloaded now. So I'll give it one more try.
>
> It's a bit late now, but you might have had much lighter download
> using the network installation CD. Three DVDs is about 13GB; I doubt
> that most installations would be that big. With the network
> installation you boot from a CD (222MB download) which then downloads
> only the packages that will be installed. See
> https://www.debian.org/CD/netinst/


I'm forever in love with debootstrap once I got thru the mounting and
chroot glitch.. Overnight debootstrap aligned my setup with many on
the list with respect to becoming current. It then perpetually
provides the opportunity to remain reasonably current as each notable
update is released from now on. And that's on *DIALUP*..

It's not an easy avenue, in fact the words *cognitively painful,
excruciatingly so on occasion* come to mind, but I just feel *so much*
in control right now, I can't begin to express it in words.. I have
absolutely zip interest in obtaining Debian via any other route now..
No offense intended to anyone else's *_CHOICE_*. Seriously! Whatever
works however it works... :)

Cindy :)

-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with plastic sporks *


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Re:Was: Ric Moore

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 17 January 2015 13:04:09 Clive Standbridge did opine
And Gene did reply:
> > I assume it has a name, is this 7.8=Jessie?
> 
> Its name is wheezy. It's an update, not a new release. See:
> https://www.debian.org/releases/wheezy/
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-announce/2015/msg0.html
> 
> > Anybody else? FWIW, 7.8, all 3 dvd's in amd64 format, is being
> > downloaded now. So I'll give it one more try.
> 
> It's a bit late now, but you might have had much lighter download
> using the network installation CD. Three DVDs is about 13GB; I doubt
> that most installations would be that big. With the network
> installation you boot from a CD (222MB download) which then downloads
> only the packages that will be installed. See
> https://www.debian.org/CD/netinst/

Unfortunately, the last 9 debian/ubuntu flavored installs, on 4 machines 
here, have all ran up against Network-Mangler, which promptly tore down 
any attempts I successfully made to get it online. I was successful 
several times in each case, for 15 to 30 seconds, able to ping the world, 
but 30 seconds later I am looking at a no network, can't continue pop up 
message. Network Menagerie simple cannot, will not, accept that there is 
in fact a valid, all fixed address, doesn't need a dhcp client ever, 
network out there that is actually working, so it proceeds to tear up what 
you've done, and then can't find a network on its own because there is not 
a dhcp server running anywhere on this network, and never will be until it 
can setup one of my other machines, by its hostname association and "ping 
shop", getting the usual ping response.  That day has never arrived 
without setting up fixed addresses vs mac addresses in dhcpd.conf.

So I swap drives & reboot to an older install, mount that drive, and as 
root, go into it, setting up the networking, and making every file I have 
to touch to setup what I know works, its working right now, with a root 
chattr +i on every file I have to edit after Network Mangler screws it up 
again.  Then I re-swap the drives and reboot to the new install, and 
networking Just Works(TM) for the life of that install.

But you all seem to think that all user's are a pack of driveling dummies, 
not to be trusted to set up a network, so you put so many dependencies in 
it that removing it is impossible without wrecking the whole install.

Then there is apparently no way to shut it off at boot time. I have looked 
for that. And it IS running right now.  So the best that I can do here is 
emasculate it and break all its fingers by making the network files 
ALL(including /etc/hosts) immutable.  Which it seems to silently accept.  
But why is it wasting cpu resources and memory when it is not needed and 
has had all its fingers to screw with things amputated?

Sorry, but network manager is a sore spot for my local network, and will 
be until such time as it is no longer a daemon that cannot even be killed.

This isn't winderz folks, get rid of useless crap please.

Thanks for reading my rant.

Those downloads are finished but not yet burned.  I have a couple other 
things I want to do first.

Thank you for the advice.  I did consider it, but when you cannot keep a 
network up during the install, that method presented more problems that 
the installer does not give you the tools to fix since it is not possible 
to start another root terminal while the installer is struggling with a 
broken network mangler.  Chicken v egg situation.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 
US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS


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Re: Ric Moore

[Ric Moore]

On 01/17/2015 01:04 PM, Clive Standbridge wrote:

I assume it has a name, is this 7.8=Jessie?


Its name is wheezy. It's an update, not a new release. See:
https://www.debian.org/releases/wheezy/
https://lists.debian.org/debian-announce/2015/msg0.html


Jessie is 8.X It's ready for primetime that I can tell. Runs smoothly. Ric


--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
Linux user# 44256


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Re: Ric Moore

[Ric Moore]

On 01/16/2015 09:46 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:


So now I am back on the old LUCID based install.  Where hopefully I can
send an email.  With kmail.


Lucid is more Jessie level than wheezy level. I use wheezy on the 
servers, for damn sure. But I run Jessie on my desktop for the Lucid 
level experience. I just booted my ubuntu partition a week ago to get 
1/2 gig of updates! That's how often I use it. I'm good with Jessie.


To the group, Gene runs some high-end computer cutting tools using Linux 
and once in a blue moon his special RT kernel hiccups. Gene has 
persisted! :) Ric




--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
Linux user# 44256


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Re: Re: Ric Moore

[Clive Standbridge]

> I assume it has a name, is this 7.8=Jessie?

Its name is wheezy. It's an update, not a new release. See:
https://www.debian.org/releases/wheezy/
https://lists.debian.org/debian-announce/2015/msg0.html


> Anybody else? FWIW, 7.8, all 3 dvd's in amd64 format, is being
> downloaded now. So I'll give it one more try.

It's a bit late now, but you might have had much lighter download
using the network installation CD. Three DVDs is about 13GB; I doubt
that most installations would be that big. With the network
installation you boot from a CD (222MB download) which then downloads
only the packages that will be installed. See
https://www.debian.org/CD/netinst/


-- 
Cheers,
Clive


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Re: Ric Moore

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 16 January 2015 21:46:18 Gene Heskett did opine
And Gene did reply:
> Greetings, back on the old 10.04.4  LTS LUCID drive.
> 
> Ric, installing that mesa library for firefox made firefox work better,
> & no squawking about the missing file.
> 
> But, it pulled in 19 other packages either for additional deps, or
> whatever, then finished up on a rescan, wanting to update about 100
> other packages.  Which I didn't let it do.
> 
> However, when I went to reply to the mail, I fond that in addition to
> wanting to remove kmail without replacing it with an even newer
> version, whatever it pulled rather instantly removed kmails ability to
> send mail, claiming the address was bogus.  But it never had time to
> ping the mail server, it was an instant rejection.
> 
> 
> So now I am back on the old LUCID based install.  Where hopefully I can
> send an email.  With kmail.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

Anybody else? FWIW, 7.8, all 3 dvd's in amd64 format, is being downloaded 
now. So I'll give it one more try.

But, I need to recover the emails that came in while I was running wheezy.  
Does rsync have an update syntax that can do that.  I also have yet, 
leftovers from the initial kmail install 13 years ago, 3 or four 
directorys that are still in mailfile format and quite slow to access so I 
will do that conversion by hand before trying 7.8.

I assume it has a name, is this 7.8=Jessie?

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 
US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS


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Ric Moore

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings, back on the old 10.04.4  LTS LUCID drive.

Ric, installing that mesa library for firefox made firefox work better, & 
no squawking about the missing file.

But, it pulled in 19 other packages either for additional deps, or 
whatever, then finished up on a rescan, wanting to update about 100 other 
packages.  Which I didn't let it do.

However, when I went to reply to the mail, I fond that in addition to 
wanting to remove kmail without replacing it with an even newer version, 
whatever it pulled rather instantly removed kmails ability to send mail, 
claiming the address was bogus.  But it never had time to ping the mail 
server, it was an instant rejection.


So now I am back on the old LUCID based install.  Where hopefully I can 
send an email.  With kmail.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 
US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS


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