Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Mi, 18 sep 19, 12:20:43, Gene Heskett wrote:
> 
> It is, and the makers lie a lot, taking advantage of the buffering to get 
> thier 100 MBs rating for small writes. For gigabyte transfers I often 
> see sub 20 MB/S toward the end. But you may want to steer clear of the 
> 64GB+ cards, exfat is creeping into the sdhc arena, and I either have a 
> defective NEW PNY 64GB, or this stretch install can't touch it because 
> its exfat.  I bought 2 recently, same exact part number, slightly 
> different card gfx, the 85 meg rated one doesn't mention exfat, works, 
> the 100 MB/S rated one mentions exfat and is untouchable.

exFAT is just a filesystem, the standard partitioning/formating tools 
will be able to replace it without issue if the hardware works.

Your issues are more likely to be hardware related.

Do make sure you are using a recent enough card reader for the capacity 
of the cards and it's also properly connected / powered (i.e. not 
through your defective USB hub you discovered at some point).

Of course, the card itself may just be defective ;)

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[ghe]

On 9/17/19 4:17 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

> I'd luv to give it a try, since I've never tried it, but unpacking the 
> NOOBS to an sd card seems to be a secret, so what linux command will 
> unpack the .zip and put it on the card?

Attached is the instruction file I wrote for myself because the process
is a bit complex for me to remember (it says 3B+, but it's the same for
a 4, IIRC). I hope it makes some sense to you.

If not, you need but speak...

-- 
Glenn English
NOOBS 3B+ INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS

1. Insert an SD card that is 8GB or greater in size into your computer.
2. Format the SD card using the platform-specific instructions below:
   Linux
  i. We recommend using gparted (or the command line version parted)
  ii. Create a MSDOS partition tabls and single FAT32 partition. A 64G card 
works fine.
  iii. Mount the SD card partition -- on /mnt.
3. Unzip the NOOBS data (files and dirs) into a dir on the Linux disk (sudo 
unzip 2009-08-07.NOOBS_v3_2_0.zip -d unzipped/ -- for example).
4. Move into the dir with the NOOBS data. Copy the data from the Linux dir to 
the partition (cd unzipped ; sudo cp -rv * /mnt)
  on the SD card. Just all the files and dirs. (cp -r * /mnt). Umount the 
SD card (sudo umount /mnt).
5. Insert the SD card into your Pi and connect the power supply, etc.

Your Pi will now boot into NOOBS and should display a list of operating systems 
that you can choose to install.
If your display remains blank, you should select the correct output mode for 
your display by pressing one of 
   the following number keys on your keyboard:
1. HDMI mode - this is the default display mode.
2. HDMI safe mode - select this mode if you are using the HDMI connector and 
cannot see anything on screen when the Pi has booted.
3. Composite PAL mode - select either this mode or composite NTSC mode if you 
are using the composite RCA video connector.
4. Composite NTSC mode

If you are still having difficulties after following these instructions, then 
please visit the Raspberry Pi 
   Forums (http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/) for support.

Follow the directions. Be sure to set to US in the little window at the bottom.

Changing to XFCE from LXDE
   sudo apt-get install xfce4 xfce4-goodies
   sudo dpkg --get-selections | grep "^lx" or apt-cache show lxde
   remove all of them
   Replace lxde (? -- the login window) with slim.
   
   Reboot
   
   sudo apt-get autoremove && sudo apt-get autoclean

Install Firefox, Webmin, an email client, etc.

Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 19 September 2019 03:59:24 Jonas Smedegaard wrote:

> Quoting Gene Heskett (2019-09-18 21:19:45)
>
> > On Wednesday 18 September 2019 12:58:25 Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > > Quoting Gene Heskett (2019-09-18 18:20:43)
> > >
> > > > On Wednesday 18 September 2019 11:36:41 John Hasler wrote:
> > > > > Jonas writes:
> > > > > > Please demonstrate just one single example of dd being
> > > > > > faster than cp to transfer a full raw image to a raw device!
> > > > >
> > > > > On modern systems you would probably need to be doing terabyte
> > > > > transfers between disks on the same machine.  Back in the days
> > > > > when a megabyte was a lot dd was *much* faster.
> > > > >
> > > > > On an SD card I think that the write speed of the card is
> > > > > probably the limiting factor.
> > > >
> > > > It is, and the makers lie a lot, taking advantage of the
> > > > buffering to get thier 100 MBs rating for small writes. For
> > > > gigabyte transfers I often see sub 20 MB/S toward the end. But
> > > > you may want to steer clear of the 64GB+ cards, exfat is
> > > > creeping into the sdhc arena, and I either have a defective NEW
> > > > PNY 64GB, or this stretch install can't touch it because its
> > > > exfat.  I bought 2 recently, same exact part number, slightly
> > > > different card gfx, the 85 meg rated one doesn't mention exfat,
> > > > works, the 100 MB/S rated one mentions exfat and is untouchable.
> > >
> > > Regarding quality of SD cards, I trust advices from Thomas Kaiser.
> > >
> > > Here's his advice on which brands to trust:
> > > > Only a few vendors on this planet run NAND flash memory fabs,
> > > > only a few companies produce flash memory controllers and have
> > > > the necessary know-how in house. And only a few combine their
> > > > own NAND flash with their own controllers to their own retail
> > > > products. That's the simple reason why at least I only buy SD
> > > > cards from these 4 brands: Samsung, SanDisk, Toshiba, Transcend
> > >
> > > Above quote is from
> > > https://forum.armbian.com/topic/954-sd-card-performance/page/3/?ta
> > >b=comments#comment-49811 which is linked from front page intro to
> > > that thread - as part of this more general advice + warning not to
> > > waste time reading the whole
> > >
> > > thread:
> > > > Warning: This whole thread is only about historical information
> > > > now since it's 2018 and we can buy inexpensive and great
> > > > performing A1 rated SD cards in the meantime. Buying anything
> > > > else is a mistake so directly jump to the end of the thread for
> > > > performance numbers and recommendations.
> > >
> > > On a related note, here's Kaiser's more detailed notes on A1/A2
> > > rating:
> > > https://github.com/ThomasKaiser/Knowledge/blob/master/articles/A1_
> > >and_A2_rated_SD_cards.md
> >
> > That also seems to be somewhat dated.  And rather Sandisk promoting.
>
> No, quotes further up promotes brands closest to factories, and the
> article closes above promotes A1/A2 labeling which is brand-agnostic
> (yes, it proves its point by comparing cards from a single brand but
> that's besides the point).
>
> > So I bought another to see if they were still as bad as a year ago.
>
> Which brand and model? Did it have either "A1" or "A2" printed on it?

SanDisk A1 10, ImageMate microSDXC UHS-1 64gb, UP TO 100 MB/s,
haven't opened it yet. Much lower profile packaging than SamSung or PNY, 
will need a really sharp knife to liberate the actual card.

> What are the comparable results from same tests? They are linked from
> the article:
> https://github.com/ThomasKaiser/sbc-bench/blob/master/sd-card-bench.sh

That script looks to be pretty self destructive, but it might be 
interesting to kill the card just to see how long it lasts, but its $12 
a card to find out.  So I think I put the rpi4 raspbian buster on it 
when the heat sink and adapters arrive. Might even have raspbian buster 
10.2 by then. ISTR you have to be able to run raspi-config & check the 
SSH box, as its (ssh) not run by default. So its not possible to 
navigate that unless someone knows what to do to it in the card reader 
to achieve the SSH function at bootup. Chicken vs egg problem from my 
point of view.

But it might be a way to access it like I can when the older rpi3b 
stretch is plugged in.

Curiosity is killing the cat. I *think* the gpio diffs are baked into the 
driver, so if I can install the stretch deb of linuxcnc I've built, then 
swap the new spi driver in, make the test cable, hook up a half blown 
mesa 7i90HD and see if it runs.  Its the output side of the card thats 
blown.

That will take some fooling around, which takes time. It might be that 
busters use of wayland is going to be a problem so we'll try this on 
stretch first. Linuxcnc's gfx aren't such that I can't export its screen 
to this machine with an ssh -Y login. But this won't until I rewrite 
that card with a RealtimePi kernel.  Always somthing.

Thanks Jonas

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There 

Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting Gene Heskett (2019-09-18 21:19:45)
> On Wednesday 18 September 2019 12:58:25 Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> 
> > Quoting Gene Heskett (2019-09-18 18:20:43)
> >
> > > On Wednesday 18 September 2019 11:36:41 John Hasler wrote:
> > > > Jonas writes:
> > > > > Please demonstrate just one single example of dd being faster 
> > > > > than cp to transfer a full raw image to a raw device!
> > > >
> > > > On modern systems you would probably need to be doing terabyte 
> > > > transfers between disks on the same machine.  Back in the days 
> > > > when a megabyte was a lot dd was *much* faster.
> > > >
> > > > On an SD card I think that the write speed of the card is 
> > > > probably the limiting factor.
> > >
> > > It is, and the makers lie a lot, taking advantage of the buffering 
> > > to get thier 100 MBs rating for small writes. For gigabyte 
> > > transfers I often see sub 20 MB/S toward the end. But you may want 
> > > to steer clear of the 64GB+ cards, exfat is creeping into the sdhc 
> > > arena, and I either have a defective NEW PNY 64GB, or this stretch 
> > > install can't touch it because its exfat.  I bought 2 recently, 
> > > same exact part number, slightly different card gfx, the 85 meg 
> > > rated one doesn't mention exfat, works, the 100 MB/S rated one 
> > > mentions exfat and is untouchable.
> >
> > Regarding quality of SD cards, I trust advices from Thomas Kaiser.
> >
> > Here's his advice on which brands to trust:
> > > Only a few vendors on this planet run NAND flash memory fabs, only 
> > > a few companies produce flash memory controllers and have the 
> > > necessary know-how in house. And only a few combine their own NAND 
> > > flash with their own controllers to their own retail products. 
> > > That's the simple reason why at least I only buy SD cards from 
> > > these 4 brands: Samsung, SanDisk, Toshiba, Transcend
> >
> > Above quote is from 
> > https://forum.armbian.com/topic/954-sd-card-performance/page/3/?tab=comments#comment-49811
> >  
> > which is linked from front page intro to that thread - as part of 
> > this more general advice + warning not to waste time reading the 
> > whole
> >
> > thread:
> > > Warning: This whole thread is only about historical information 
> > > now since it's 2018 and we can buy inexpensive and great 
> > > performing A1 rated SD cards in the meantime. Buying anything else 
> > > is a mistake so directly jump to the end of the thread for 
> > > performance numbers and recommendations.
> >
> > On a related note, here's Kaiser's more detailed notes on A1/A2 
> > rating: 
> > https://github.com/ThomasKaiser/Knowledge/blob/master/articles/A1_and_A2_rated_SD_cards.md
> >
> That also seems to be somewhat dated.  And rather Sandisk promoting.

No, quotes further up promotes brands closest to factories, and the 
article closes above promotes A1/A2 labeling which is brand-agnostic 
(yes, it proves its point by comparing cards from a single brand but 
that's besides the point).

> So I bought another to see if they were still as bad as a year ago.

Which brand and model? Did it have either "A1" or "A2" printed on it?

What are the comparable results from same tests? They are linked from 
the article: 
https://github.com/ThomasKaiser/sbc-bench/blob/master/sd-card-bench.sh


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private


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Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[Joe]

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 21:39:23 -0500
John Hasler  wrote:

> Joe writes:
> > What would be a real pain is actually accessing HDMI signals while
> > the thing is running. It's no good just looking into a connector,
> > it needs to see something hanging on the end before it will power
> > up and activate.  
> 
> Well of course he'd have to build a breakout box.  Trickier than RS232
> but straightforward enough as long as you know how to deal with UHF
> and impedance matching as Gene clearly does.
> 

It's still a pain. Almost the only available HDMI plugs are PCB mount,
and a real nuisance to solder wires to. I have made a couple of (very
short) HDMI cables by hand.

Easier to buy another cable and Pi.

> An rf voltmeter would suffice to determine if the lines are waggling.

-- 
Joe

Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 18 September 2019 22:39:23 John Hasler wrote:

> Joe writes:
> > What would be a real pain is actually accessing HDMI signals while
> > the thing is running. It's no good just looking into a connector, it
> > needs to see something hanging on the end before it will power up
> > and activate.
>
> Well of course he'd have to build a breakout box.  Trickier than RS232
> but straightforward enough as long as you know how to deal with UHF
> and impedance matching as Gene clearly does.
>
> An rf voltmeter would suffice to determine if the lines are waggling.

Maybe, but I've been looking at a scope with a probe in one hand since 
1951, and my eyes can make sense, see an error and recognize it as such, 
sometimes before the circuit actually mis-behaves. Such single ended 
circuits have a worst enemy, I call it ground bounce, and it can totally 
destroy a single ended circuits signal integrity, or even blow chips if 
brutal enough. But I also understand that hdmi is low voltage 
differential, and I'm not as well eyeball trained on those. 

But I can always recognize an echo if the scope is fast enough. Sometimes 
you have to do a bit of math (my poor suite because in actual fact my 
formal education is to the 8th grade only) to confirm the distortion you 
see is an echo though that gets difficult when the cable is well under a 
foot long and the echo's fundamentel delay is closing in on the scopes 
bandwidth.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[John Hasler]

Joe writes:
> What would be a real pain is actually accessing HDMI signals while the
> thing is running. It's no good just looking into a connector, it needs
> to see something hanging on the end before it will power up and
> activate.

Well of course he'd have to build a breakout box.  Trickier than RS232
but straightforward enough as long as you know how to deal with UHF and
impedance matching as Gene clearly does.

An rf voltmeter would suffice to determine if the lines are waggling.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 18 September 2019 17:49:49 deloptes wrote:

> Gene Heskett wrote:
> > 2 possible differences. Its not powered correctly when powered from
> > gpio pin 6=gnd, and 2=5.11 volts. A pi3b has been running that way
> > for 2+ years and the gpio is said to be 100% pi3b compatible.  Argue
> > with me on that, this rp-4 came with no docs.
>
> Yes but we are already almost two decades in the 21 century
> https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberrypi/bcm2711
>/rpi_DATA_2711_1p0_preliminary.pdf
> https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/usage/gpio/
>
> and I am sure if you have the time to write here, you also have the
> time to check the online documentation.
>
> It says that you can power it up with the pins (as before). I just
> wonder if the current you supply is sufficient. Also it says that
> powering PI via GPIO bypasses all protection.
>
> Here the complete list, if someone is wondering what is needed to
> bring RPI4B up
>
> RPi4 (check)
> Box Joy-IT with active cooling (not yet)
> microSD >=4GB (64GB)
> USB charger 3A/5V (5A-5V)
> USB cable (USB-A to USB-C) (what for)
> HDMI cable (HDMI-HDMI micro highspeed) (have several, all std 
hdmi ends)

Add 4 port usb3 hub, 2 60GB SSD's and 2 dongles for wireless keyboard and 
mouse)

That should cover it.  No heat sink, but its not doing anything, I can 
touch the SOC top, hot but not dangerously so.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[deloptes]

Gene Heskett wrote:

> 2 possible differences. Its not powered correctly when powered from gpio
> pin 6=gnd, and 2=5.11 volts. A pi3b has been running that way for 2+
> years and the gpio is said to be 100% pi3b compatible.  Argue with me on
> that, this rp-4 came with no docs.

Yes but we are already almost two decades in the 21 century 
https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberrypi/bcm2711/rpi_DATA_2711_1p0_preliminary.pdf
https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/usage/gpio/

and I am sure if you have the time to write here, you also have the time to
check the online documentation.

It says that you can power it up with the pins (as before). I just wonder if
the current you supply is sufficient. Also it says that powering PI via
GPIO bypasses all protection.

Here the complete list, if someone is wondering what is needed to bring
RPI4B up

RPi4
Box Joy-IT with active cooling
microSD >=4GB
USB charger 3A/5V 
USB cable (USB-A to USB-C)
HDMI cable (HDMI-HDMI micro highspeed) 

Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 18 September 2019 16:57:14 Thomas D Dial wrote:

> On Wed, 2019-09-18 at 09:04 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Wednesday 18 September 2019 07:46:38 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Tuesday 17 September 2019 22:05:28 David wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 08:17, Gene Heskett
> > > > 
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday 17 September 2019 15:07:30 ghe wrote:
> > > > > > On 9/17/19 11:01 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > > > And that results in exactly the same effect, partitiuon 1
> > > > > > > is an iso9660 image, and I don't believe the rpi-3b
> > > > > > > supports
> >
> > that
> >
> > > > > > > for a boot medium. dos/fat32 only I believe. Obviously I
> > > > > > > got those images from the wrong place in the debian file
> >
> > system.
> >
> > > > > > > So I need to remove these, but where do I get the correct
> > > > > > > versions?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/ ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Use the damn NOOBS and quit fighting with your Pi(s)! NOOBS
> > > > > > takes a while, and it doesn't install things the way you
> > > > > > want them to be, but it does work -- you end up looking at a
> >
> > working
> >
> > > > > > Buster desktop. No confusion or cardio stress involved.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are a lot of recipes on the web to make things all
> >
> > better.
> >
> > > > > > And 'rm' works pretty well, too.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd luv to give it a try, since I've never tried it, but
> >
> > unpacking
> >
> > > > > the NOOBS to an sd card seems to be a secret, so what linux
> > > > > command will unpack the .zip and put it on the card?
> > > >
> > > > Hi Gene,
> > > >
> > > > I suggest a first step is just get your Pi 4 running
> > > > the simplest way possible. Just to see it working first
> > > > before starting to customising it in any way.
> > > >
> > > > You don't need NOOBS, just Raspbian.
> > > > Note: Raspbian is not Debian.
> > > >
> > > > Just do this:
> > > >
> > > > 1) get the zipped image
> > > > $ curl -L -o raspbian_latest.zip
> > > > downloads.raspberrypi.org/raspbian_latest
> > > >
> > > > 2) verify the download
> > > > $ sha256sum raspbian_latest.zip
> > > > 6a1a5f20329e580d5161a0255b3d4163db6f56c3997e1c3b36bdd51140bd768e
> > > >
> > > > 3) write the SD card
> > > > (replace my /dev/sd_ with your SD card device,
> > > > without any partition number):
> > > >
> > > > # unzip -p raspbian_latest.zip | dd bs=4M of=/dev/sd_
> > > > status=progress conv=fsync
> > >
> > > This last is what I was looking for, thank you, and I'll give it
> > > all
> >
> > a
> >
> > > shot later today. In fact, card is written.
> > >
> > > > and that will produce a SD card that
> > > > will boot a Raspberry Pi 4 hardware into a Raspbian desktop.
> > >
> > > If I can get video out of it, I am about convinced that the only
> > > micro-hdmi adapter I have is a $16 dud I got from Wallmart.
> > >
> > > Banggood says 2 more adapters and the big, whole top heat sink
> > > won't be here till around the 3rd.
> > >
> > > So if this doesn't work, I'll just shelve it till then.  Maybe
> > > forever, I'm about burned out on this. I've written several cards,
> > > without ever seeing a single byte of video on a monitor that works
> > > fine when driven by a pi-3b.
> > >
> > > 2 possible differences. Its not powered correctly when powered
> > > from gpio pin 6=gnd, and 2=5.11 volts. A pi3b has been running
> > > that way
> >
> > for
> >
> > > 2+ years and the gpio is said to be 100% pi3b compatible.  Argue
> >
> > with
> >
> > > me on that, this rp-4 came with no docs.
> > >
> > > I do not have a psu with an OTG connector.  Or this $16 wallmart
> > > adapter is duff.
> > >
> > > Does anyone have some typical scope waveforms pix that would show
> >
> > what
> >
> > > a working hdmi socket has for signals?
> > >
> > > Now its morning locally, time go see about some caffiene for me
> > > and the missus. Thanks all.
> >
> > Now I have a puzzle, that rpi-4 is powered and is on my local net,
> > was at
> > a duplicate address because the card was at one time in the rpi-3,
> > but a
> > login from here didn't look like I was looking at the same machine,
> > so
> > from here I went trolling thru proc and discovered it was an
> > rpi-4!!!
> >
> > So I changed its ipv4 address, hostname, domainname, added itself at
> > its
> > new address to its /etc/hosts file and rebooted it. Added it to my
> > hosts
> > file and ssh -Y pi@rpi4, fixed my known_hosts file, and I am now
> > logged
> > into it at its new address.  A cat /etc/issue says its running a
> > raspbian 9 (stretch).
> >
> > And there's still no video on the monitor its feeding. So I am
> > encouraged, but where the heck is the video?
>
> The instructions that came with mine insisted that the HDMI cable be
> attached using the HDMI0 port, on the left looking at them with the
> board top up. The IDs are stenciled on the top of the board but the
> letters are about 1/32" high.
>
Which is how I have it.

> If that's 

Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 18 September 2019 16:09:48 Joe wrote:

> On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 10:20:22 -0500
>
> John Hasler  wrote:
> > Your scope could show you eye patterns but that's probably of little
> > use.  You need to look at all three data channels and the clock
> > (these are differential so you need eight inputs) and trigger on
> > patterns. otherwise all you will learn is that the interface is
> > clocking.
>
> I suspect that if all eight lines are waggling, that's good enough.
>
> By the way, I have a 40MHz scope whose response extends far enough to
> show a thickening of the trace on 1.5Gb/s signals, which is good
> enough for presence/absence.
>
> What would be a real pain is actually accessing HDMI signals while the
> thing is running. It's no good just looking into a connector, it needs
> to see something hanging on the end before it will power up and
> activate.

IOW, disconnecting and looking into the connector with a scope probe is a 
waste of time. HDMI is post my time in the broadcast business by 15 
years, so I know little about it from my former $dayjob. I had the 
obligatory turkey dinner and collected the Rolex in the middle of 2002, 
haveing sat in that chair, when I had time to sit, since Oct 1984 and 
monitors were just gettiing smart enough to tell the drivers what they 
needed, so I had suspected as much.

Thank you Joe.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[Thomas D Dial]

On Wed, 2019-09-18 at 09:04 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Wednesday 18 September 2019 07:46:38 Gene Heskett wrote:
> 
> > On Tuesday 17 September 2019 22:05:28 David wrote:
> > > On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 08:17, Gene Heskett 
> >
> > wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday 17 September 2019 15:07:30 ghe wrote:
> > > > > On 9/17/19 11:01 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > > And that results in exactly the same effect, partitiuon 1 is
> > > > > > an iso9660 image, and I don't believe the rpi-3b supports
> that
> > > > > > for a boot medium. dos/fat32 only I believe. Obviously I got
> > > > > > those images from the wrong place in the debian file
> system. 
> > > > > > So I need to remove these, but where do I get the correct
> > > > > > versions?
> > > > >
> > > > > From https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/ ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Use the damn NOOBS and quit fighting with your Pi(s)! NOOBS
> > > > > takes a while, and it doesn't install things the way you want
> > > > > them to be, but it does work -- you end up looking at a
> working
> > > > > Buster desktop. No confusion or cardio stress involved.
> > > > >
> > > > > There are a lot of recipes on the web to make things all
> better.
> > > > > And 'rm' works pretty well, too.
> > > >
> > > > I'd luv to give it a try, since I've never tried it, but
> unpacking
> > > > the NOOBS to an sd card seems to be a secret, so what linux
> > > > command will unpack the .zip and put it on the card?
> > >
> > > Hi Gene,
> > >
> > > I suggest a first step is just get your Pi 4 running
> > > the simplest way possible. Just to see it working first
> > > before starting to customising it in any way.
> > >
> > > You don't need NOOBS, just Raspbian.
> > > Note: Raspbian is not Debian.
> > >
> > > Just do this:
> > >
> > > 1) get the zipped image
> > > $ curl -L -o raspbian_latest.zip
> > > downloads.raspberrypi.org/raspbian_latest
> > >
> > > 2) verify the download
> > > $ sha256sum raspbian_latest.zip
> > > 6a1a5f20329e580d5161a0255b3d4163db6f56c3997e1c3b36bdd51140bd768e
> > >
> > > 3) write the SD card
> > > (replace my /dev/sd_ with your SD card device,
> > > without any partition number):
> > >
> > > # unzip -p raspbian_latest.zip | dd bs=4M of=/dev/sd_
> > > status=progress conv=fsync
> >
> > This last is what I was looking for, thank you, and I'll give it all
> a
> > shot later today. In fact, card is written.
> >
> > > and that will produce a SD card that
> > > will boot a Raspberry Pi 4 hardware into a Raspbian desktop.
> >
> > If I can get video out of it, I am about convinced that the only
> > micro-hdmi adapter I have is a $16 dud I got from Wallmart.
> >
> > Banggood says 2 more adapters and the big, whole top heat sink won't
> > be here till around the 3rd.
> >
> > So if this doesn't work, I'll just shelve it till then.  Maybe
> > forever, I'm about burned out on this. I've written several cards,
> > without ever seeing a single byte of video on a monitor that works
> > fine when driven by a pi-3b.
> >
> > 2 possible differences. Its not powered correctly when powered from
> > gpio pin 6=gnd, and 2=5.11 volts. A pi3b has been running that way
> for
> > 2+ years and the gpio is said to be 100% pi3b compatible.  Argue
> with
> > me on that, this rp-4 came with no docs.
> >
> > I do not have a psu with an OTG connector.  Or this $16 wallmart
> > adapter is duff.
> >
> > Does anyone have some typical scope waveforms pix that would show
> what
> > a working hdmi socket has for signals?
> >
> > Now its morning locally, time go see about some caffiene for me and
> > the missus. Thanks all.
> >
> Now I have a puzzle, that rpi-4 is powered and is on my local net, was
> at 
> a duplicate address because the card was at one time in the rpi-3, but
> a 
> login from here didn't look like I was looking at the same machine,
> so 
> from here I went trolling thru proc and discovered it was an rpi-4!!!
> 
> So I changed its ipv4 address, hostname, domainname, added itself at
> its 
> new address to its /etc/hosts file and rebooted it. Added it to my
> hosts 
> file and ssh -Y pi@rpi4, fixed my known_hosts file, and I am now
> logged 
> into it at its new address.  A cat /etc/issue says its running a 
> raspbian 9 (stretch).
> 
> And there's still no video on the monitor its feeding. So I am 
> encouraged, but where the heck is the video?

The instructions that came with mine insisted that the HDMI cable be
attached using the HDMI0 port, on the left looking at them with the
board top up. The IDs are stenciled on the top of the board but the
letters are about 1/32" high.

If that's the way you have it, I would suspect a defective cable or rpi
board.


Tom Dial

> 
> I've a C.E.T.'s typical test gear here, including a gigahertz
> sampling 
> scope, so test ideas welcomed from folks more rpi4 knowledgable than
> I.
> 
> And time to make more coffee.  Like Calahan's Bar, elixer of the
> gods, 
> but without the alcohol.
> 
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> 
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> -- 
> "There are four 

Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[Joe]

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 10:20:22 -0500
John Hasler  wrote:

> Your scope could show you eye patterns but that's probably of little
> use.  You need to look at all three data channels and the clock (these
> are differential so you need eight inputs) and trigger on patterns.
> otherwise all you will learn is that the interface is clocking.

I suspect that if all eight lines are waggling, that's good enough.

By the way, I have a 40MHz scope whose response extends far enough to
show a thickening of the trace on 1.5Gb/s signals, which is good enough
for presence/absence.

What would be a real pain is actually accessing HDMI signals while the
thing is running. It's no good just looking into a connector, it needs
to see something hanging on the end before it will power up and
activate.

-- 
Joe

Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 18 September 2019 12:58:25 Jonas Smedegaard wrote:

> Quoting Gene Heskett (2019-09-18 18:20:43)
>
> > On Wednesday 18 September 2019 11:36:41 John Hasler wrote:
> > > Jonas writes:
> > > > Please demonstrate just one single example of dd being faster
> > > > than cp to transfer a full raw image to a raw device!
> > >
> > > On modern systems you would probably need to be doing terabyte
> > > transfers between disks on the same machine.  Back in the days
> > > when a megabyte was a lot dd was *much* faster.
> > >
> > > On an SD card I think that the write speed of the card is probably
> > > the limiting factor.
> >
> > It is, and the makers lie a lot, taking advantage of the buffering
> > to get thier 100 MBs rating for small writes. For gigabyte transfers
> > I often see sub 20 MB/S toward the end. But you may want to steer
> > clear of the 64GB+ cards, exfat is creeping into the sdhc arena, and
> > I either have a defective NEW PNY 64GB, or this stretch install
> > can't touch it because its exfat.  I bought 2 recently, same exact
> > part number, slightly different card gfx, the 85 meg rated one
> > doesn't mention exfat, works, the 100 MB/S rated one mentions exfat
> > and is untouchable.
>
> Regarding quality of SD cards, I trust advices from Thomas Kaiser.
>
> Here's his advice on which brands to trust:
> > Only a few vendors on this planet run NAND flash memory fabs, only a
> > few companies produce flash memory controllers and have the
> > necessary know-how in house. And only a few combine their own NAND
> > flash with their own controllers to their own retail products.
> > That's the simple reason why at least I only buy SD cards from these
> > 4 brands: Samsung, SanDisk, Toshiba, Transcend
>
> Above quote is from
> https://forum.armbian.com/topic/954-sd-card-performance/page/3/?tab=co
>mments#comment-49811 which is linked from front page intro to that
> thread - as part of this more general advice + warning not to waste
> time reading the whole
>
> thread:
> > Warning: This whole thread is only about historical information now
> > since it's 2018 and we can buy inexpensive and great performing A1
> > rated SD cards in the meantime. Buying anything else is a mistake so
> > directly jump to the end of the thread for performance numbers and
> > recommendations.
>
> On a related note, here's Kaiser's more detailed notes on A1/A2
> rating:
> https://github.com/ThomasKaiser/Knowledge/blob/master/articles/A1_and_
>A2_rated_SD_cards.md
>
That also seems to be somewhat dated.  And rather Sandisk promoting. So I 
bought another to see if they were still as bad as a year ago. About a 
buck cheaper than the other name brands. I don't have any left from the 
3 or 4 I did have, having destroyed the last 32GB in the after install 
update of about 300 pkgs.  So my preference has been not to buy any more 
SanDisk.

I was going to get another micro hdmi adapter but somebody bought the 
last one and its peg has been re-assigned to something else.  So I'm 
stuck playing over an ssh login till whenever.
>
>  - Jonas


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting Gene Heskett (2019-09-18 18:20:43)
> On Wednesday 18 September 2019 11:36:41 John Hasler wrote:
> 
> > Jonas writes:
> > > Please demonstrate just one single example of dd being faster than 
> > > cp to transfer a full raw image to a raw device!
> >
> > On modern systems you would probably need to be doing terabyte 
> > transfers between disks on the same machine.  Back in the days when 
> > a megabyte was a lot dd was *much* faster.
> >
> > On an SD card I think that the write speed of the card is probably 
> > the limiting factor.
> 
> It is, and the makers lie a lot, taking advantage of the buffering to 
> get thier 100 MBs rating for small writes. For gigabyte transfers I 
> often see sub 20 MB/S toward the end. But you may want to steer clear 
> of the 64GB+ cards, exfat is creeping into the sdhc arena, and I 
> either have a defective NEW PNY 64GB, or this stretch install can't 
> touch it because its exfat.  I bought 2 recently, same exact part 
> number, slightly different card gfx, the 85 meg rated one doesn't 
> mention exfat, works, the 100 MB/S rated one mentions exfat and is 
> untouchable.

Regarding quality of SD cards, I trust advices from Thomas Kaiser.

Here's his advice on which brands to trust:

> Only a few vendors on this planet run NAND flash memory fabs, only a 
> few companies produce flash memory controllers and have the necessary 
> know-how in house. And only a few combine their own NAND flash with 
> their own controllers to their own retail products. That's the simple 
> reason why at least I only buy SD cards from these 4 brands: Samsung, 
> SanDisk, Toshiba, Transcend

Above quote is from 
https://forum.armbian.com/topic/954-sd-card-performance/page/3/?tab=comments#comment-49811
 
which is linked from front page intro to that thread - as part of this 
more general advice + warning not to waste time reading the whole 
thread:

> Warning: This whole thread is only about historical information now 
> since it's 2018 and we can buy inexpensive and great performing A1 
> rated SD cards in the meantime. Buying anything else is a mistake so 
> directly jump to the end of the thread for performance numbers and 
> recommendations.

On a related note, here's Kaiser's more detailed notes on A1/A2 rating: 
https://github.com/ThomasKaiser/Knowledge/blob/master/articles/A1_and_A2_rated_SD_cards.md


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

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Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 18 September 2019 11:36:41 John Hasler wrote:

> Jonas writes:
> > Please demonstrate just one single example of dd being faster than
> > cp to transfer a full raw image to a raw device!
>
> On modern systems you would probably need to be doing terabyte
> transfers between disks on the same machine.  Back in the days when a
> megabyte was a lot dd was *much* faster.
>
> On an SD card I think that the write speed of the card is probably the
> limiting factor.

It is, and the makers lie a lot, taking advantage of the buffering to get 
thier 100 MBs rating for small writes. For gigabyte transfers I often 
see sub 20 MB/S toward the end. But you may want to steer clear of the 
64GB+ cards, exfat is creeping into the sdhc arena, and I either have a 
defective NEW PNY 64GB, or this stretch install can't touch it because 
its exfat.  I bought 2 recently, same exact part number, slightly 
different card gfx, the 85 meg rated one doesn't mention exfat, works, 
the 100 MB/S rated one mentions exfat and is untouchable.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 18 September 2019 11:20:22 John Hasler wrote:

> Your scope could show you eye patterns but that's probably of little
> use.  You need to look at all three data channels and the clock (these
> are differential so you need eight inputs) and trigger on patterns.
> otherwise all you will learn is that the interface is clocking.
Given the present state, John, even that could be enlightening.

I took the card I had prepared out and swapped it for the card with 
raspbian stretch on it, and from the activity of the green led it is 
booting, but despite going out and dancing on the keyboard for about 5 
minutes, its not starting the ssh server, so I can't access it from 
here.  So I've swapped back to the raspbian stretch card, then looked up 
the man page for sysctl and rechanged the host and domain names, and 
rebooted to see if they stuck. This time they did stay as set, so thats 
one roadblock out of the way.

Next is add it to my /sshnet so I can move files 
into /sshnet/rpi4/home/pi's home dir. I have a copy of linuxcnc-master I 
built on the pi3 about 4 weeks back that dpkg should be able to install, 
its running on a stretch install on the rpi3 right now, at which time I 
should be able to test the newly re-written driver, after I hook up a 
partially blown mesa 7i90HD card for the driver to hunt for. For that, 
I'll need to make a 26 pin cable 2 or 3" long.  If I can see the mesa 
card init, you'll be able to hear the whoopee from there.  But that also 
implies the heat sink I don't have yet, there's no sinks on it now, nor 
do I have the video adapters, yet.

In the meantime  I'm giving this wallmart thing my best immitation of a 
Sam Elliot look of disbelief. But even if I grow a cookie duster that 
would likely get giggles from the audience. ;-)

One really fugly thought keeps drifting into view, and that is that the 
rpi4 needs a whole new video driver setup. In that event, the raspian 
buster 10.1 should be making nice, speedy video even while its booting.  
But its not.  Sigh...

Thanks John.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting John Hasler (2019-09-18 17:36:41)
> Jonas writes:
> > Please demonstrate just one single example of dd being faster than 
> > cp to transfer a full raw image to a raw device!
> 
> On modern systems you would probably need to be doing terabyte 
> transfers between disks on the same machine.  Back in the days when a 
> megabyte was a lot dd was *much* faster.
> 
> On an SD card I think that the write speed of the card is probably the 
> limiting factor.

Any idea why?


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

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Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[John Hasler]

Jonas writes:
> Please demonstrate just one single example of dd being faster than cp
> to transfer a full raw image to a raw device!

On modern systems you would probably need to be doing terabyte transfers
between disks on the same machine.  Back in the days when a megabyte was
a lot dd was *much* faster.

On an SD card I think that the write speed of the card is probably the
limiting factor.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[John Hasler]

Your scope could show you eye patterns but that's probably of little
use.  You need to look at all three data channels and the clock (these
are differential so you need eight inputs) and trigger on patterns.
otherwise all you will learn is that the interface is clocking.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 18 September 2019 09:48:24 John Hasler wrote:

> Gene writes:
> > Does anyone have some typical scope waveforms pix that would show
> > what a working hdmi socket has for signals?
>
> All digital.  You need a logic analyzer.  I could have had one that
> would do the job for you at the Stout surplus sale last week for $20
> but I decided that I didn't need it.

I thought of that John, but the kit I have, a redpitaya + VNA, isn't fast 
enough for video. I'd imagine it would peter out at anything faster than 
10 mhz.  The VNA is nice, can draw smith charts in near real time at up 
to 60 mhz, so an AM radio station tower tuneup at 1 Mhz is pretty easy.  
That VNA s what I bought it for.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[tomas]

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 08:38:11AM -0500, John Hasler wrote:
> Jonas writes:
> > Essentiall you want to copy all raw content onto the raw device.
> 
> > This works too (and not only with specially crafted zip files):
> 
> >  $ unzip foo.zip
> >  $ su -c "cp image-unpacked-from-foo-zip /dev/sd_"
> 
> I'd add a sync command to be sure all buffers are flushed.

Definitely. And wait until it comes back. Or use "oflags=direct" with
your dd.

Cheers
-- tomás


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Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting John Hasler (2019-09-18 15:38:11)
> Jonas writes:
> > Essentiall you want to copy all raw content onto the raw device.
> 
> > This works too (and not only with specially crafted zip files):
> 
> >  $ unzip foo.zip
> >  $ su -c "cp image-unpacked-from-foo-zip /dev/sd_"
> 
> I'd add a sync command to be sure all buffers are flushed.
> 
> > dd is *not* a better tool for this task - that's just false rumors.
> 
> dd is faster with the right options but that only matters with really
> large transfers, which this isn't.

Interesting, and new to me.

Please demonstrate just one single example of dd being faster than cp to 
transfer a full raw image to a raw device!

 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private


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Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[John Hasler]

Gene writes:
> Does anyone have some typical scope waveforms pix that would show what
> a working hdmi socket has for signals?

All digital.  You need a logic analyzer.  I could have had one that
would do the job for you at the Stout surplus sale last week for $20 but
I decided that I didn't need it.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[John Hasler]

Jonas writes:
> Essentiall you want to copy all raw content onto the raw device.

> This works too (and not only with specially crafted zip files):

>  $ unzip foo.zip
>  $ su -c "cp image-unpacked-from-foo-zip /dev/sd_"

I'd add a sync command to be sure all buffers are flushed.

> dd is *not* a better tool for this task - that's just false rumors.

dd is faster with the right options but that only matters with really
large transfers, which this isn't.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[tomas]

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 09:27:23AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:

[...]

> And my furniture/carpenter skills mean I have lots of those tools 
> available too, I build green and green style stuff, but the green & 
> green joints are carved by cnc milling machines running code I wrote. 
> Consistent joint fits are an admirable target.

Now imagine doing that with a bread knife. Doable, but... :-)

Cheers
-- t


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Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 18 September 2019 08:57:43 to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 02:42:21PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > Quoting Gene Heskett (2019-09-18 13:46:38)
> >
> > > On Tuesday 17 September 2019 22:05:28 David wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 08:17, Gene Heskett
> > > > 
> > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > what linux command will unpack the .zip and put it on the
> > > > > card?
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > > > 3) write the SD card
> > > > (replace my /dev/sd_ with your SD card device,
> > > > without any partition number):
> > > >
> > > > # unzip -p raspbian_latest.zip | dd bs=4M of=/dev/sd_
> > > > status=progress conv=fsync
> > >
> > > This last is what I was looking for, thank you, and I'll give it
> > > all a shot later today. In fact, card is written.
> >
> > Essentiall you want to copy all raw content onto the raw device.
> >
> > This works too (and not only with specially crafted zip files):
> >
> >   $ unzip foo.zip
> >   $ su -c "cp image-unpacked-from-foo-zip /dev/sd_"
>
> Also spelt "zcat foo.zip > /dev/sd_" for those who don't want to
> leave a file around they have to delete later.
>
> > dd is *not* a better tool for this task - that's just false rumors.
>
> I don't know about "better", but it's the right tool for that job,
> affording you
>
> - unbuffered output (oflag=direct) for when you don't want
>   to wait for ages after dd has finished while your system
>   is flushing buffers (or worse, pull the stick/card out
>   while buffers are not flushed because you think copy is
>   ready, leading to funny results)
>
> - progress display (either by sending it an USR1 signal or
>   by stating "status=progress".
>
> There's a reason a carpenter's shop has more than one tool,
> but hey, if you insist, you can take out a screw with scissors.
>
And my furniture/carpenter skills mean I have lots of those tools 
available too, I build green and green style stuff, but the green & 
green joints are carved by cnc milling machines running code I wrote. 
Consistent joint fits are an admirable target.

> Cheers
> -- t


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[tomas]

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 03:06:06PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:

[...]

> > >   $ unzip foo.zip
> > >   $ su -c "cp image-unpacked-from-foo-zip /dev/sd_"
> > 
> > Also spelt "zcat foo.zip > /dev/sd_" for those who don't want to leave 
> > a file around they have to delete later.
> 
> ...for specially crafted zip files containing only a single file, yes.

...otherwise your combo above is bound to do strange things, too ;-P

So kids, always do an unzip -l first, combo or not.

Cheers
-- t


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Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 18 September 2019 08:51:31 David wrote:

> On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 21:46, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > Does anyone have some typical scope waveforms pix that would show
> > what a working hdmi socket has for signals?
>
> There are no analog signals on the HDMI connector. Only several pairs
> of conductors for different clocked serial data.
>
> Also, if the CPU and the monitor have not been able to have an EDID
> conversation at the appropriate moment in the boot process, then I
> wouldn't be surprised if there's very little signal activity after
> that fails.
>
> So I doubt the CRO's gonna help you. Most likely I imagine that you
> just need the appropriate monitor cable with the correct digital
> signals and connectors at each end, simple as that.
>
> Did you test it yet?

Not yet, but see an earlier post, the thing is alive and present on my 
local net. Currently with a raspbian 9 card in it. It was at a duplicate 
address of the rpi3 because the card had been in the 3 and configured to 
its name & address, changed all that to unique stuff, rebooted and still 
there, just no local video.  Now, after I make coffee, fix the rest of 
the local nets /etc/hosts files. Then I can play some more. :) Like hook 
up a mesa 7i90 interface card and find out if the new spi driver works.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 18 September 2019 08:42:21 Jonas Smedegaard wrote:

> Quoting Gene Heskett (2019-09-18 13:46:38)
>
> > On Tuesday 17 September 2019 22:05:28 David wrote:
> > > On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 08:17, Gene Heskett 
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > > > what linux command will unpack the .zip and put it on the card?
>
> [...]
>
> > > 3) write the SD card
> > > (replace my /dev/sd_ with your SD card device,
> > > without any partition number):
> > >
> > > # unzip -p raspbian_latest.zip | dd bs=4M of=/dev/sd_
> > > status=progress conv=fsync
> >
> > This last is what I was looking for, thank you, and I'll give it all
> > a shot later today. In fact, card is written.
>
> Essentiall you want to copy all raw content onto the raw device.
>
> This works too (and not only with specially crafted zip files):
>
>   $ unzip foo.zip
>   $ su -c "cp image-unpacked-from-foo-zip /dev/sd_"

Unforch, I read the man page, and the command I used generated all he 
files in the local work dir. Messy.

> dd is *not* a better tool for this task - that's just false rumors.

I did wonder about that, ISTR seeing examples that used Zcat for that.

>  - Jonas

Thanks Jonas

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[David]

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 22:57,  wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 02:42:21PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:

> >   $ unzip foo.zip
> >   $ su -c "cp image-unpacked-from-foo-zip /dev/sd_"
>
> Also spelt "zcat foo.zip > /dev/sd_" for those who don't want to
> leave a file around they have to delete later.
>
> > dd is *not* a better tool for this task - that's just false rumors.
>
> I don't know about "better", but it's the right tool for that job,
> affording you
>
> - unbuffered output (oflag=direct) for when you don't want
>   to wait for ages after dd has finished while your system
>   is flushing buffers (or worse, pull the stick/card out
>   while buffers are not flushed because you think copy is
>   ready, leading to funny results)
>
> - progress display (either by sending it an USR1 signal or
>   by stating "status=progress".

Plus:
-  does not require/waste disk space for large image-unpacked-from-foo-zip
-  Gene asked for "a command", not commands ;p

Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting to...@tuxteam.de (2019-09-18 14:57:43)
> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 02:42:21PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > Quoting Gene Heskett (2019-09-18 13:46:38)
> > > On Tuesday 17 September 2019 22:05:28 David wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 08:17, Gene Heskett 
> > > >  wrote:
> > > > > what linux command will unpack the .zip and put it on the 
> > > > > card?
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> > > > 3) write the SD card
> > > > (replace my /dev/sd_ with your SD card device,
> > > > without any partition number):
> > > 
> > > > # unzip -p raspbian_latest.zip | dd bs=4M of=/dev/sd_ status=progress 
> > > > conv=fsync
> > > 
> > > This last is what I was looking for, thank you, and I'll give it 
> > > all a shot later today. In fact, card is written.
> > 
> > Essentiall you want to copy all raw content onto the raw device.
> > 
> > This works too (and not only with specially crafted zip files):
> > 
> >   $ unzip foo.zip
> >   $ su -c "cp image-unpacked-from-foo-zip /dev/sd_"
> 
> Also spelt "zcat foo.zip > /dev/sd_" for those who don't want to leave 
> a file around they have to delete later.

...for specially crafted zip files containing only a single file, yes.

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private


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Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 18 September 2019 07:46:38 Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Tuesday 17 September 2019 22:05:28 David wrote:
> > On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 08:17, Gene Heskett 
>
> wrote:
> > > On Tuesday 17 September 2019 15:07:30 ghe wrote:
> > > > On 9/17/19 11:01 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > And that results in exactly the same effect, partitiuon 1 is
> > > > > an iso9660 image, and I don't believe the rpi-3b supports that
> > > > > for a boot medium. dos/fat32 only I believe. Obviously I got
> > > > > those images from the wrong place in the debian file system. 
> > > > > So I need to remove these, but where do I get the correct
> > > > > versions?
> > > >
> > > > From https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/ ?
> > > >
> > > > Use the damn NOOBS and quit fighting with your Pi(s)! NOOBS
> > > > takes a while, and it doesn't install things the way you want
> > > > them to be, but it does work -- you end up looking at a working
> > > > Buster desktop. No confusion or cardio stress involved.
> > > >
> > > > There are a lot of recipes on the web to make things all better.
> > > > And 'rm' works pretty well, too.
> > >
> > > I'd luv to give it a try, since I've never tried it, but unpacking
> > > the NOOBS to an sd card seems to be a secret, so what linux
> > > command will unpack the .zip and put it on the card?
> >
> > Hi Gene,
> >
> > I suggest a first step is just get your Pi 4 running
> > the simplest way possible. Just to see it working first
> > before starting to customising it in any way.
> >
> > You don't need NOOBS, just Raspbian.
> > Note: Raspbian is not Debian.
> >
> > Just do this:
> >
> > 1) get the zipped image
> > $ curl -L -o raspbian_latest.zip
> > downloads.raspberrypi.org/raspbian_latest
> >
> > 2) verify the download
> > $ sha256sum raspbian_latest.zip
> > 6a1a5f20329e580d5161a0255b3d4163db6f56c3997e1c3b36bdd51140bd768e
> >
> > 3) write the SD card
> > (replace my /dev/sd_ with your SD card device,
> > without any partition number):
> >
> > # unzip -p raspbian_latest.zip | dd bs=4M of=/dev/sd_
> > status=progress conv=fsync
>
> This last is what I was looking for, thank you, and I'll give it all a
> shot later today. In fact, card is written.
>
> > and that will produce a SD card that
> > will boot a Raspberry Pi 4 hardware into a Raspbian desktop.
>
> If I can get video out of it, I am about convinced that the only
> micro-hdmi adapter I have is a $16 dud I got from Wallmart.
>
> Banggood says 2 more adapters and the big, whole top heat sink won't
> be here till around the 3rd.
>
> So if this doesn't work, I'll just shelve it till then.  Maybe
> forever, I'm about burned out on this. I've written several cards,
> without ever seeing a single byte of video on a monitor that works
> fine when driven by a pi-3b.
>
> 2 possible differences. Its not powered correctly when powered from
> gpio pin 6=gnd, and 2=5.11 volts. A pi3b has been running that way for
> 2+ years and the gpio is said to be 100% pi3b compatible.  Argue with
> me on that, this rp-4 came with no docs.
>
> I do not have a psu with an OTG connector.  Or this $16 wallmart
> adapter is duff.
>
> Does anyone have some typical scope waveforms pix that would show what
> a working hdmi socket has for signals?
>
> Now its morning locally, time go see about some caffiene for me and
> the missus. Thanks all.
>
Now I have a puzzle, that rpi-4 is powered and is on my local net, was at 
a duplicate address because the card was at one time in the rpi-3, but a 
login from here didn't look like I was looking at the same machine, so 
from here I went trolling thru proc and discovered it was an rpi-4!!!

So I changed its ipv4 address, hostname, domainname, added itself at its 
new address to its /etc/hosts file and rebooted it. Added it to my hosts 
file and ssh -Y pi@rpi4, fixed my known_hosts file, and I am now logged 
into it at its new address.  A cat /etc/issue says its running a 
raspbian 9 (stretch).

And there's still no video on the monitor its feeding. So I am 
encouraged, but where the heck is the video?

I've a C.E.T.'s typical test gear here, including a gigahertz sampling 
scope, so test ideas welcomed from folks more rpi4 knowledgable than I.

And time to make more coffee.  Like Calahan's Bar, elixer of the gods, 
but without the alcohol.

> Cheers, Gene Heskett


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[tomas]

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 02:42:21PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> Quoting Gene Heskett (2019-09-18 13:46:38)
> > On Tuesday 17 September 2019 22:05:28 David wrote:
> > > On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 08:17, Gene Heskett  
> > > wrote:
> > > > what linux command will unpack the .zip and put it on the card?
> 
> [...]
> 
> > > 3) write the SD card
> > > (replace my /dev/sd_ with your SD card device,
> > > without any partition number):
> > 
> > > # unzip -p raspbian_latest.zip | dd bs=4M of=/dev/sd_ status=progress 
> > > conv=fsync
> > 
> > This last is what I was looking for, thank you, and I'll give it all a 
> > shot later today. In fact, card is written.
> 
> Essentiall you want to copy all raw content onto the raw device.
> 
> This works too (and not only with specially crafted zip files):
> 
>   $ unzip foo.zip
>   $ su -c "cp image-unpacked-from-foo-zip /dev/sd_"

Also spelt "zcat foo.zip > /dev/sd_" for those who don't want to
leave a file around they have to delete later.

> dd is *not* a better tool for this task - that's just false rumors.

I don't know about "better", but it's the right tool for that job,
affording you

- unbuffered output (oflag=direct) for when you don't want
  to wait for ages after dd has finished while your system
  is flushing buffers (or worse, pull the stick/card out
  while buffers are not flushed because you think copy is
  ready, leading to funny results)

- progress display (either by sending it an USR1 signal or
  by stating "status=progress".

There's a reason a carpenter's shop has more than one tool,
but hey, if you insist, you can take out a screw with scissors.

Cheers
-- t


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Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[David]

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 21:46, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Does anyone have some typical scope waveforms pix that would show what a
> working hdmi socket has for signals?

There are no analog signals on the HDMI connector. Only several pairs
of conductors for different clocked serial data.

Also, if the CPU and the monitor have not been able to have an EDID
conversation at the appropriate moment in the boot process, then I
wouldn't be surprised if there's very little signal activity after that fails.

So I doubt the CRO's gonna help you. Most likely I imagine that you just need
the appropriate monitor cable with the correct digital signals and connectors
at each end, simple as that.

Did you test it yet?

Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting Gene Heskett (2019-09-18 13:46:38)
> On Tuesday 17 September 2019 22:05:28 David wrote:
> > On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 08:17, Gene Heskett  
> > wrote:
> > > what linux command will unpack the .zip and put it on the card?

[...]

> > 3) write the SD card
> > (replace my /dev/sd_ with your SD card device,
> > without any partition number):
> 
> > # unzip -p raspbian_latest.zip | dd bs=4M of=/dev/sd_ status=progress 
> > conv=fsync
> 
> This last is what I was looking for, thank you, and I'll give it all a 
> shot later today. In fact, card is written.

Essentiall you want to copy all raw content onto the raw device.

This works too (and not only with specially crafted zip files):

  $ unzip foo.zip
  $ su -c "cp image-unpacked-from-foo-zip /dev/sd_"

dd is *not* a better tool for this task - that's just false rumors.


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private


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Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 17 September 2019 22:05:28 David wrote:

> On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 08:17, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > On Tuesday 17 September 2019 15:07:30 ghe wrote:
> > > On 9/17/19 11:01 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > And that results in exactly the same effect, partitiuon 1 is an
> > > > iso9660 image, and I don't believe the rpi-3b supports that for
> > > > a boot medium. dos/fat32 only I believe. Obviously I got those
> > > > images from the wrong place in the debian file system.  So I
> > > > need to remove these, but where do I get the correct versions?
> > >
> > > From https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/ ?
> > >
> > > Use the damn NOOBS and quit fighting with your Pi(s)! NOOBS takes
> > > a while, and it doesn't install things the way you want them to
> > > be, but it does work -- you end up looking at a working Buster
> > > desktop. No confusion or cardio stress involved.
> > >
> > > There are a lot of recipes on the web to make things all better.
> > > And 'rm' works pretty well, too.
> >
> > I'd luv to give it a try, since I've never tried it, but unpacking
> > the NOOBS to an sd card seems to be a secret, so what linux command
> > will unpack the .zip and put it on the card?
>
> Hi Gene,
>
> I suggest a first step is just get your Pi 4 running
> the simplest way possible. Just to see it working first
> before starting to customising it in any way.
>
> You don't need NOOBS, just Raspbian.
> Note: Raspbian is not Debian.
>
> Just do this:
>
> 1) get the zipped image
> $ curl -L -o raspbian_latest.zip
> downloads.raspberrypi.org/raspbian_latest
>
> 2) verify the download
> $ sha256sum raspbian_latest.zip
> 6a1a5f20329e580d5161a0255b3d4163db6f56c3997e1c3b36bdd51140bd768e
>
> 3) write the SD card
> (replace my /dev/sd_ with your SD card device,
> without any partition number):

> # unzip -p raspbian_latest.zip | dd bs=4M of=/dev/sd_ status=progress
> conv=fsync

This last is what I was looking for, thank you, and I'll give it all a 
shot later today. In fact, card is written.

> and that will produce a SD card that
> will boot a Raspberry Pi 4 hardware into a Raspbian desktop.

If I can get video out of it, I am about convinced that the only 
micro-hdmi adapter I have is a $16 dud I got from Wallmart.

Banggood says 2 more adapters and the big, whole top heat sink won't be 
here till around the 3rd.

So if this doesn't work, I'll just shelve it till then.  Maybe forever, 
I'm about burned out on this. I've written several cards, without ever 
seeing a single byte of video on a monitor that works fine when driven 
by a pi-3b.

2 possible differences. Its not powered correctly when powered from gpio 
pin 6=gnd, and 2=5.11 volts. A pi3b has been running that way for 2+ 
years and the gpio is said to be 100% pi3b compatible.  Argue with me on 
that, this rp-4 came with no docs.

I do not have a psu with an OTG connector.  Or this $16 wallmart adapter 
is duff.

Does anyone have some typical scope waveforms pix that would show what a 
working hdmi socket has for signals?

Now its morning locally, time go see about some caffiene for me and the 
missus. Thanks all.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[David]

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 08:17, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> On Tuesday 17 September 2019 15:07:30 ghe wrote:
> > On 9/17/19 11:01 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:

> > > And that results in exactly the same effect, partitiuon 1 is an
> > > iso9660 image, and I don't believe the rpi-3b supports that for a
> > > boot medium. dos/fat32 only I believe. Obviously I got those images
> > > from the wrong place in the debian file system.  So I need to remove
> > > these, but where do I get the correct versions?
> >
> > From https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/ ?
> >
> > Use the damn NOOBS and quit fighting with your Pi(s)! NOOBS takes a
> > while, and it doesn't install things the way you want them to be, but
> > it does work -- you end up looking at a working Buster desktop. No
> > confusion or cardio stress involved.
> >
> > There are a lot of recipes on the web to make things all better. And
> > 'rm' works pretty well, too.
>
> I'd luv to give it a try, since I've never tried it, but unpacking the
> NOOBS to an sd card seems to be a secret, so what linux command will
> unpack the .zip and put it on the card?

Hi Gene,

I suggest a first step is just get your Pi 4 running
the simplest way possible. Just to see it working first
before starting to customising it in any way.

You don't need NOOBS, just Raspbian.
Note: Raspbian is not Debian.

Just do this:

1) get the zipped image
$ curl -L -o raspbian_latest.zip downloads.raspberrypi.org/raspbian_latest

2) verify the download
$ sha256sum raspbian_latest.zip
6a1a5f20329e580d5161a0255b3d4163db6f56c3997e1c3b36bdd51140bd768e

3) write the SD card
(replace my /dev/sd_ with your SD card device,
without any partition number):
# unzip -p raspbian_latest.zip | dd bs=4M of=/dev/sd_ status=progress conv=fsync

and that will produce a SD card that
will boot a Raspberry Pi 4 hardware into a Raspbian desktop.

Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[John Hasler]

Thomas Schmitt writes:
> I get the impression that uboot is a usual firmware and bootloader,
> but that there are also mechanisms which rather remind me of the ROM
> of my VIC-20.

On boards like this UBoot is usually stored in onboard memory and pretty
much is the "BIOS" and the bootloader as well.  It has a Busybox-like
shell (perhaps it is Busybox) that you should be able to connect to via
USB or serial.  With it you can examine and change all sorts of
environment variables such as where it should look for the kernel.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 17 September 2019 15:07:30 ghe wrote:

> On 9/17/19 11:01 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > And that results in exactly the same effect, partitiuon 1 is an
> > iso9660 image, and I don't believe the rpi-3b supports that for a
> > boot medium. dos/fat32 only I believe. Obviously I got those images
> > from the wrong place in the debian file system.  So I need to remove
> > these, but where do I get the correct versions?
>
> From https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/ ?
>
> Use the damn NOOBS and quit fighting with your Pi(s)! NOOBS takes a
> while, and it doesn't install things the way you want them to be, but
> it does work -- you end up looking at a working Buster desktop. No
> confusion or cardio stress involved.
>
> There are a lot of recipes on the web to make things all better. And
> 'rm' works pretty well, too.

I'd luv to give it a try, since I've never tried it, but unpacking the 
NOOBS to an sd card seems to be a secret, so what linux command will 
unpack the .zip and put it on the card?

Thanks.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 17 September 2019 14:04:30 Thomas Schmitt wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Gene Heskett wrote:
> > I once wrote the "debian-10.0.0-arm64-netinst.iso" to an u-sd card,
> > which booted and did a net-install on an rpi-3b [...]
> > /dev/sde1 /media/sde1 iso9660 ro,relatime 0 0
> > /dev/sde2 /media/sde2 vfat
> > rw,relatime,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=437,iocharset=ascii,short
> >na me=mixed,utf8,errors=remount-ro 0 0
> >
> > first partition is iso9660 ? Don't recall seeing that before.
>
> That's the normal partition table content of a bootable Debian ISO
> for i386, amd_64, armhf, arm64. (i386 and amd64 ISOs suffer from
> partition nesting, but that does not keep PC-BIOS or EFI from booting
> them.)
>
> The statement "iso9660" stems from inspection of the partition
> content, not from the partition table where type is 0x83 = "Linux" in
> the armhf and arm64 ISOs.
>
> The second partition is of type 0xEF and contains a FAT filesystem
> with EFI boot equipment.
> As stated already in another thread: The combination of Raspberry and
> EFI is exotic.

For debian, trade secrets for raspbiab & armbian. Carefull inspection of 
the armbian site dies not include r-pi's.

> I get the impression that uboot is a usual firmware and bootloader,
> but that there are also mechanisms which rather remind me of the ROM
> of my VIC-20. See e.g.

I've been told that the offset locations of the files are fixed by the 
bootcode, but I've not been successful at getting that data 
regurgitated.
  
> https://www.beyondlogic.org/compiling-u-boot-with-device-tree-support-
>for-the-raspberry-pi/
>
> So, unless your rpi-3b has an EFI-compatible first booting step in its
> firmware, i assume that debian-10.0.0-arm64-netinst.iso never booted
> on it.

It has not ever used EFI to boot that I am aware of.

> Have a nice day :)
>
> Thomas

From the responses I am getting, it looks like my rpi-4 is a shelf 
decorator until bullseye or maybe later. So I will concentrate on 
getting the best I can out of an rpi-3b, and probably raspbian.

Thank you thomas.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 17 September 2019 13:48:35 John Hasler wrote:

> Looks like you copied the file to the first partition rather than
> writing the image to the raw device (I've made that mistake
> myself). What command did you use?

sudo dd if=debian-10.1.0-armhf-netinst.iso bs=4096 of=/dev/sde

The /dev/sde obtained from syslog after plugging in the reader.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[ghe]

On 9/17/19 11:01 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:

> And that results in exactly the same effect, partitiuon 1 is an iso9660 
> image, and I don't believe the rpi-3b supports that for a boot medium. 
> dos/fat32 only I believe. Obviously I got those images from the wrong 
> place in the debian file system.  So I need to remove these, but where 
> do I get the correct versions?

>From https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/ ?

Use the damn NOOBS and quit fighting with your Pi(s)! NOOBS takes a
while, and it doesn't install things the way you want them to be, but it
does work -- you end up looking at a working Buster desktop. No
confusion or cardio stress involved.

There are a lot of recipes on the web to make things all better. And
'rm' works pretty well, too.

-- 
Glenn English

Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Gene Heskett wrote:
> I once wrote the "debian-10.0.0-arm64-netinst.iso" to an u-sd card,
> which booted and did a net-install on an rpi-3b [...]
> /dev/sde1 /media/sde1 iso9660 ro,relatime 0 0
> /dev/sde2 /media/sde2 vfat
> rw,relatime,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=437,iocharset=ascii,shortna
> me=mixed,utf8,errors=remount-ro 0 0
>
> first partition is iso9660 ? Don't recall seeing that before.

That's the normal partition table content of a bootable Debian ISO
for i386, amd_64, armhf, arm64. (i386 and amd64 ISOs suffer from partition
nesting, but that does not keep PC-BIOS or EFI from booting them.)

The statement "iso9660" stems from inspection of the partition content,
not from the partition table where type is 0x83 = "Linux" in the armhf
and arm64 ISOs.

The second partition is of type 0xEF and contains a FAT filesystem with
EFI boot equipment.
As stated already in another thread: The combination of Raspberry and
EFI is exotic.
I get the impression that uboot is a usual firmware and bootloader, but that
there are also mechanisms which rather remind me of the ROM of my VIC-20.
See e.g.
  
https://www.beyondlogic.org/compiling-u-boot-with-device-tree-support-for-the-raspberry-pi/

So, unless your rpi-3b has an EFI-compatible first booting step in its
firmware, i assume that debian-10.0.0-arm64-netinst.iso never booted on it.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[John Hasler]

Looks like you copied the file to the first partition rather than
writing the image to the raw device (I've made that mistake
myself). What command did you use?
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: confused, seems to be my normal state

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 17 September 2019 12:45:51 Gene Heskett wrote:

> Greetings to all debian puzzle solvers incorporated;
>
> I once wrote the "debian-10.0.0-arm64-netinst.iso" to an u-sd card,
> which booted and did a net-install on an rpi-3b but my user software,
> linuxcnc was built for armhf and would not run.
>
> I'm capable of building that from src, but was not able to satisfy all
> its dependencies, so gave it up. Apparently the arm64 is not capable
> of supporting a 32 bit program.
>
> This morning I pull a copy of "debian-10.1.0-arm64-netinst.iso" to see
> if it worked any better, but it makes no attempt to boot when plugged
> into the pi-3b.  That card, plugged back into a reader, looks like
> this:
>
> /dev/sde1 /media/sde1 iso9660 ro,relatime 0 0
> /dev/sde2 /media/sde2 vfat
> rw,relatime,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=437,iocharset=ascii,shortna
>me=mixed,utf8,errors=remount-ro 0 0
>
> first partition is iso9660 ? Don't recall seeing that before.
>
> I also have that in armhf, so I'm about to rewrite that card with it.
>
And that results in exactly the same effect, partitiuon 1 is an iso9660 
image, and I don't believe the rpi-3b supports that for a boot medium. 
dos/fat32 only I believe. Obviously I got those images from the wrong 
place in the debian file system.  So I need to remove these, but where 
do I get the correct versions?

> Was the first install a fluke, or was something changed between 10.0
> and 10.1 that would explain the failure?
>
> Thanks all.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

confused, seems to be my normal state

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings to all debian puzzle solvers incorporated;

I once wrote the "debian-10.0.0-arm64-netinst.iso" to an u-sd card, which 
booted and did a net-install on an rpi-3b but my user software, linuxcnc 
was built for armhf and would not run.

I'm capable of building that from src, but was not able to satisfy all 
its dependencies, so gave it up. Apparently the arm64 is not capable of 
supporting a 32 bit program.

This morning I pull a copy of "debian-10.1.0-arm64-netinst.iso" to see if 
it worked any better, but it makes no attempt to boot when plugged into 
the pi-3b.  That card, plugged back into a reader, looks like this:

/dev/sde1 /media/sde1 iso9660 ro,relatime 0 0
/dev/sde2 /media/sde2 vfat 
rw,relatime,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=437,iocharset=ascii,shortname=mixed,utf8,errors=remount-ro
 
0 0

first partition is iso9660 ? Don't recall seeing that before.

I also have that in armhf, so I'm about to rewrite that card with it.

Was the first install a fluke, or was something changed between 10.0 and 
10.1 that would explain the failure?

Thanks all.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page