Re: Parallel Mustella runs
Hi, Just find back this thread. I received from Microsoft a free Visual Studio Ultimate with MSDN, so, that's include a Windows free Azure account with 1 UC 1 GHz, 768 Mb RAM, I don't know if it's enough to run a part of the tests, keep me in touch once you can run all of them on your VM, I might try to use a clone (*.vhd). Let me know what you think. -Fred -Message d'origine- From: Erik de Bruin Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 6:35 PM To: dev@flex.apache.org Subject: Re: Parallel Mustella runs It should be possible to use the disk that contains my instance... But it seems to involve either some low level API manipulation or the purchase (trail?) of a piece of commercial software. I can look into it later this week, right now I'm a bit busy on a little landscaping project in our yard ;-) EdB On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 6:16 PM, OmPrakash Muppirala bigosma...@gmail.com wrote: On Jun 3, 2013 12:40 AM, Erik de Bruin e...@ixsoftware.nl wrote: The VM I run is a 2 core, 3,5GB memory 'medium' instance. A full run takes 9 hours. I remember your VM was a bit lighter? EdB I am hoping to follow your lead and create a medium instance as well. Now, if only there was a way to image your VM and make a clone of it. Do you know if something like this is possible with Azure? Thanks, Om On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 7:44 AM, OmPrakash Muppirala bigosma...@gmail.com wrote: On Jun 2, 2013 10:33 PM, Erik de Bruin e...@ixsoftware.nl wrote: So, the metric for success may require that script that checks for failures.txt and runs with the -failures options. Ok, that script is ready to go in 'jenkins.sh', it's commented out on the bottom of the file. But the interesting thing for me once we get this Jenkins thing running is: if several committers also set up this same Jenkins job, could we have them each run a subset of the mustella tests and report much sooner? I think it was you who suggested we could create a massively parallel mustella system. If only I was such a creative thinker. I won't take credit for that idea as I don't have a clue where to start, even ;-) EdB I have an Azure VM sitting idle. Theoretically, we could add it as a second slave and divvy up the Mustella run into two halves. We should be able to have a single run in half the time. The more slaves we can add, the faster the run would get. Do you want me to give this idea a shot? Thanks, Om -- Ix Multimedia Software Jan Luykenstraat 27 3521 VB Utrecht T. 06-51952295 I. www.ixsoftware.nl -- Ix Multimedia Software Jan Luykenstraat 27 3521 VB Utrecht T. 06-51952295 I. www.ixsoftware.nl
Build failed in Jenkins: flex-sdk_mustella-air #5
See http://localhost:8080/job/flex-sdk_mustella-air/5/ -- Started by upstream project flex-sdk_mustella build number 187 originally caused by: Started by timer [EnvInject] - Loading node environment variables. Building remotely on WindowsSlave in workspace http://localhost:8080/job/flex-sdk_mustella-air/ws/ Checkout:flex-sdk_mustella-air / http://localhost:8080/job/flex-sdk_mustella-air/ws/ - hudson.remoting.Channel@189a0ca:WindowsSlave Using strategy: Default Last Built Revision: Revision 541083ce147e511d62d053e8c4aa8d6097df0d28 (origin/develop) Fetching changes from 1 remote Git repository Fetching upstream changes from origin Commencing build of Revision 643dc5bade5292e95321809f6ca1829a15c6db3d (origin/develop) Checking out Revision 643dc5bade5292e95321809f6ca1829a15c6db3d (origin/develop) FATAL: Could not checkout null with start point 643dc5bade5292e95321809f6ca1829a15c6db3d hudson.plugins.git.GitException: Could not checkout null with start point 643dc5bade5292e95321809f6ca1829a15c6db3d at org.jenkinsci.plugins.gitclient.CliGitAPIImpl.checkoutBranch(CliGitAPIImpl.java:878) at hudson.plugins.git.GitSCM$4.invoke(GitSCM.java:1229) at hudson.plugins.git.GitSCM$4.invoke(GitSCM.java:1205) at hudson.FilePath$FileCallableWrapper.call(FilePath.java:2387) at hudson.remoting.UserRequest.perform(UserRequest.java:118) at hudson.remoting.UserRequest.perform(UserRequest.java:48) at hudson.remoting.Request$2.run(Request.java:326) at hudson.remoting.InterceptingExecutorService$1.call(InterceptingExecutorService.java:72) at java.util.concurrent.FutureTask$Sync.innerRun(FutureTask.java:303) at java.util.concurrent.FutureTask.run(FutureTask.java:138) at java.util.concurrent.ThreadPoolExecutor$Worker.runTask(ThreadPoolExecutor.java:885) at java.util.concurrent.ThreadPoolExecutor$Worker.run(ThreadPoolExecutor.java:907) at hudson.remoting.Engine$1$1.run(Engine.java:58) at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:619) Caused by: hudson.plugins.git.GitException: Command C:\Program Files (x86)\Git\bin\git.exe checkout -f 643dc5bade5292e95321809f6ca1829a15c6db3d returned status code 128: stdout: stderr: fatal: Unable to create 'c:/jenkins_slave/workspace/flex-sdk_mustella-air/.git/index.lock': File exists. If no other git process is currently running, this probably means a git process crashed in this repository earlier. Make sure no other git process is running and remove the file manually to continue. at org.jenkinsci.plugins.gitclient.CliGitAPIImpl.launchCommandIn(CliGitAPIImpl.java:774) at org.jenkinsci.plugins.gitclient.CliGitAPIImpl.launchCommand(CliGitAPIImpl.java:740) at org.jenkinsci.plugins.gitclient.CliGitAPIImpl.launchCommand(CliGitAPIImpl.java:750) at org.jenkinsci.plugins.gitclient.CliGitAPIImpl.checkout(CliGitAPIImpl.java:855) at hudson.plugins.git.GitAPI.checkout(GitAPI.java:208) at org.jenkinsci.plugins.gitclient.CliGitAPIImpl.checkoutBranch(CliGitAPIImpl.java:865) ... 13 more
Are we nerd driven or business realistic driven?
Hi there, just wonder what you think about this forum post of the SpiceFactory forum [1]: With all due respect, I don't believe Apache did anything good with Flex. They struggle with a lot of internal bureaucracy and I believe that without clear leadership, this meritocracy thing just doesn't work. For the past year, Apache Flex community debated whether they should move to Git and right now when they did, they figured out that most people don't know how to use it, etc. etc. In other words, to much nerd driven, not enough business realistic driven. [1] http://www.spicefactory.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3803 -- Sebastian (PPMC) Interaction Designer Looking for a Login Example with Apache Flex? Please check out this code: http://code.google.com/p/masuland/wiki/LoginExample
us...@flex.apache.org
Hi there, Just wanted to know if there is a better way to listen for an event in an itemrenderer. I’m working on a mobile app, which uses sqlite database and cairngorm framework. I have a list in my view which has my CustomRenderer.as as it’s itemrenderer. This renderer initially loads basic data and displays it(data is binded which we get in model). Now, I also have a button on this renderer on clicking of which, I need to get some more details by querying the db (I avoided this query on initial load as it degraded the performance) and display this detailed data only on this renderer on which I click the button. Currently this is how I am achieving it: 1. On click on button in the renderer, I am dispatching a cairngorm event, which calls a command class, which is where I query db and receive detailed data. This data is stored in a model variable. 2. As soon as I store data in model variable, in next line I am dispatching this event within same command class : FlexGlobals.topLevelApplication.systemManager.dispatchEvent(*new*Event(ApplicationModelLocator.ON_DETAILED_DATA)); 3. I have added a listerner in the constructor of CustomRenderer.as: FlexGlobals.topLevelApplication.systemManager.addEventListener(ApplicationModelLocator.OVERVIEW_TREND_CLICK_DATA, onOverviewTrendClickData, *false*,0,*true*); 4. In onOverviewTrendClickData function I build the extra UI that is needed to show the detailed data. However, in this approach, the onOverviewTrendClickData function gets triggered many times(based on number of renderer items that are displayed in the list). Can you kindly let me know if there is a way I can avoid it? Or any other approach to achieve this? Warm regards, Deepak
Re: Are we nerd driven or business realistic driven?
Comments in-line... I sort of agree and don't agree at the same time. On 6/27/2013 7:23 AM, Sebastian Mohr wrote: Hi there, just wonder what you think about this forum post of the SpiceFactory forum [1]: With all due respect, I don't believe Apache did anything good with Flex. I disagree. They struggle with a lot of internal bureaucracy I agree. Trying to get permission to print the Apache Flex Logo on a T-shirt was an intensely frustrating process; and after a few weeks I only had a vague consensus that it might be okay; but not formal permission. The issue was left unresolved. The Apache Trademark team beleives the only possible interpertation of I Support Apache Flex is that someone paid money to Apache; and Apache doesn't accept donations for specific projects. and I believe that without clear leadership, this meritocracy thing just doesn't work. I have mixed feelings about this. But, I believe the Apache Flex team has proven that things can get done. The installer, for example, is awesome. The new releases / bug fixes are also great. I consider it iterative progress as opposed to revolutionary progress; but I don't think the SDK needs to be re-written from scratch every couple of years. For the past year, Apache Flex community debated whether they should move to Git and right now when they did, they figured out that most people don't know how to use it, etc. etc. I don't believe the GIT/SVN debate lasted a year; but otherwise I agree the move was not perfect. -- Jeffry Houser Technical Entrepreneur http://www.jeffryhouser.com 203-379-0773
RE: Are we nerd driven or business realistic driven?
With all due respect, I don't believe Apache did anything good with Flex. They struggle with a lot of internal bureaucracy and I believe that without clear leadership, this meritocracy thing just doesn't work. For the past year, Apache Flex community debated whether they should move to Git and right now when they did, they figured out that most people don't know how to use it, etc. etc. In other words, to much nerd driven, not enough business realistic driven. It's an open source project, run by volunteers in their free time. Yes, it's going to be different than when a large company was paying resources to work on it full time and there was a marketing budget. Yes, there will be more debate. Yes, the debate can sometimes be frustrating. However, in all honesty, there are people here and there is work happening. That is more than can be said for many open source projects and I, for one, think that it is pretty cool that despite what might be called oppressive market conditions and long processes to get here, the lights are on and things are happening. Mike
RE: Are we nerd driven or business realistic driven?
I'm completely with Mike here. There is a hefty amount of work being done there. I'm continually in awe of the work ethic and dedication to the project. As for business realistic driven that's sometimes bosh as it's for the most part driven by a response and thus not proactive aYo www.ayobinitie.com mrbinitie.blogspot.com On 27 Jun 2013 15:02, Michael A. Labriola labri...@digitalprimates.net wrote: With all due respect, I don't believe Apache did anything good with Flex. They struggle with a lot of internal bureaucracy and I believe that without clear leadership, this meritocracy thing just doesn't work. For the past year, Apache Flex community debated whether they should move to Git and right now when they did, they figured out that most people don't know how to use it, etc. etc. In other words, to much nerd driven, not enough business realistic driven. It's an open source project, run by volunteers in their free time. Yes, it's going to be different than when a large company was paying resources to work on it full time and there was a marketing budget. Yes, there will be more debate. Yes, the debate can sometimes be frustrating. However, in all honesty, there are people here and there is work happening. That is more than can be said for many open source projects and I, for one, think that it is pretty cool that despite what might be called oppressive market conditions and long processes to get here, the lights are on and things are happening. Mike
Re: Are we nerd driven or business realistic driven?
Hi, With all due respect, I don't believe Apache did anything good with Flex. They struggle with a lot of internal bureaucracy and I believe that without clear leadership, this meritocracy thing just doesn't work. I agree at times there tends to be a lot more talk than action and being new to Apache we sometimes go about things the wrong way. But there have been a large number of changes, bugs have been fixed, the SDK is faster, has more features and is still improving. We have better international support, the SDK works on a wider range of Flash Player versions and Linux support is shaping up well. It has been slow going and we can always do will a bit more help. There's still some low hanging fruit that can be fixed (see JIRA issues marked easytest or easyfix for example). If all of the existing committers tried to fixed a bug or contributed something every week (or month) there would be better progress. I personally think of it like doing a cryptic crossword, it's a challenge and you might not always finish or get it exactly right but you learn something along the way. :-) There are things that are certainly better than when Flex was at Adobe. - We respond to (and fix) user issues if we can. There's always room for improvement here but we have less resources than Adobe had and everything done by people in their free time. - There a focus on what what's practical and useful now rather than what's the current hype. - New directions and features are being explored (slowly), major changes have happened in the JS side and that shows great promise. - Anyone can contribute and make a difference. What we've done poorly. - Engaging existing contributors, business and users of the SDK to help out. They are now the owners of the SDK. - Communication about what been going on and where we would like to change. - Getting new releases out. For the past year, Apache Flex community debated whether they should move to Git IMO we moved to git for the wrong reasons (SVN was working fine and well supported at Apache and github mirrors were in place). Apache infrastructure took too long in making the change (which we didn't take into account), we didn't factor in all of the build issues, and the Git model is not really in sync with the way things are done at Apache. As a result some of the benefits of using Git are lost. I'm not sure that people realised that when the move was voted for. Other peoples opinion may differ form mine on that. to much nerd driven, not enough business realistic driven. Businesses is more than welcome to contribute. I've only seen a few businesses sponsor (directly or indirectly) time or effort into this project. There are many businesses out there that use Flex and it would be in their interest if they contributed back in some way. If that's allowing employees to work of fixing bugs, promoting the SDK, helping out with documentation or in any other way it would be welcome. If someone was willing to pay me one day a week to work solely on Apache Flex I'd accept - think of it as a support contract :-) Thanks, Justin
Re: Are we nerd driven or business realistic driven?
Hi, Oh and if you want to have an idea of what progress is being made: https://github.com/apache/flex-sdk/graphs/commit-activity https://github.com/apache/flex-sdk/contributors And features that will in the next release (out of date and incomplete) https://github.com/apache/flex-sdk/blob/develop/RELEASE_NOTES And that's just the SDK repo - there are other repos as well! This also gives good indication (compared to other OS projects) to the activity in the project. https://www.ohloh.net/p/ApacheFlex Thanks, Justin
Re: Are we nerd driven or business realistic driven?
Hear, hear Justin and more bounce to the ounce aYo www.ayobinitie.com mrbinitie.blogspot.com From: Justin Mclean Sent: Thursday, 27 June 2013 15:41 To: dev@flex.apache.org Hi, With all due respect, I don't believe Apache did anything good with Flex. They struggle with a lot of internal bureaucracy and I believe that without clear leadership, this meritocracy thing just doesn't work. I agree at times there tends to be a lot more talk than action and being new to Apache we sometimes go about things the wrong way. But there have been a large number of changes, bugs have been fixed, the SDK is faster, has more features and is still improving. We have better international support, the SDK works on a wider range of Flash Player versions and Linux support is shaping up well. It has been slow going and we can always do will a bit more help. There's still some low hanging fruit that can be fixed (see JIRA issues marked easytest or easyfix for example). If all of the existing committers tried to fixed a bug or contributed something every week (or month) there would be better progress. I personally think of it like doing a cryptic crossword, it's a challenge and you might not always finish or get it exactly right but you learn something along the way. :-) There are things that are certainly better than when Flex was at Adobe. - We respond to (and fix) user issues if we can. There's always room for improvement here but we have less resources than Adobe had and everything done by people in their free time. - There a focus on what what's practical and useful now rather than what's the current hype. - New directions and features are being explored (slowly), major changes have happened in the JS side and that shows great promise. - Anyone can contribute and make a difference. What we've done poorly. - Engaging existing contributors, business and users of the SDK to help out. They are now the owners of the SDK. - Communication about what been going on and where we would like to change. - Getting new releases out. For the past year, Apache Flex community debated whether they should move to Git IMO we moved to git for the wrong reasons (SVN was working fine and well supported at Apache and github mirrors were in place). Apache infrastructure took too long in making the change (which we didn't take into account), we didn't factor in all of the build issues, and the Git model is not really in sync with the way things are done at Apache. As a result some of the benefits of using Git are lost. I'm not sure that people realised that when the move was voted for. Other peoples opinion may differ form mine on that. to much nerd driven, not enough business realistic driven. Businesses is more than welcome to contribute. I've only seen a few businesses sponsor (directly or indirectly) time or effort into this project. There are many businesses out there that use Flex and it would be in their interest if they contributed back in some way. If that's allowing employees to work of fixing bugs, promoting the SDK, helping out with documentation or in any other way it would be welcome. If someone was willing to pay me one day a week to work solely on Apache Flex I'd accept - think of it as a support contract :-) Thanks, Justin
Re: Are we nerd driven or business realistic driven?
Yeah, I think that post is a bit presumptuous. I don't often interact with the lists, but I do follow them closely. There are problems that do arise, but the overall trend is that there are a lot of people working extremely hard, coding issues, technology issues, and 'political' issues are constantly being refined and tuned. Bugs and other issues that Adobe ignored for a long long time are being rectified. I'm not saying Adobe did a bad job, but the AF team and contributors are willing to dig in there and get their hands dirty. As with any open source project, there's a ramping up speed. Technologies are tried and rejected if they don't fit the bill - and finely tuned if they do. Hierarchical structures and group dynamics are tested and worked with to produce a finer machine. I, for one, am pleased and excited to watch the emails pour in with new bugs, new fixes, ideas, recommendations, taking votes, etc. I don't think the poster of that comment is truly watching the progress and dynamics of what is going on. Unfortunately, this is the fallacy that burdens our species as a whole in nearly any facet of our lives. My only hope is that the poster of that comment subscribes to the lists and really watches what's going on while subjectively considering the situation. On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 9:03 AM, Justin Mclean jus...@classsoftware.comwrote: Hi, Oh and if you want to have an idea of what progress is being made: https://github.com/apache/flex-sdk/graphs/commit-activity https://github.com/apache/flex-sdk/contributors And features that will in the next release (out of date and incomplete) https://github.com/apache/flex-sdk/blob/develop/RELEASE_NOTES And that's just the SDK repo - there are other repos as well! This also gives good indication (compared to other OS projects) to the activity in the project. https://www.ohloh.net/p/ApacheFlex Thanks, Justin -- *Thomas Wright* Software Engineer Extension: 1054 Office: [801] 464.4600 Corporate Division twri...@yesco.com
Re: Are we nerd driven or business realistic driven?
Hi there - has anyone responded on the spicefactory forum to this message (tried to do a search for the message on my phone but failed) On another note I just joined a big firm focused on environmental health and safety standards (ISO stuff) and we recently standardized to Apache Flex for development. So huzzah for Flex(/AIR) Regards, Edward J. Apostol Consultant / Instructor Web, RIAs and wireless Toronto, ON Canada On 2013-06-27, at 7:23 AM, Sebastian Mohr flex.masul...@gmail.com wrote: Hi there, just wonder what you think about this forum post of the SpiceFactory forum [1]: With all due respect, I don't believe Apache did anything good with Flex. They struggle with a lot of internal bureaucracy and I believe that without clear leadership, this meritocracy thing just doesn't work. For the past year, Apache Flex community debated whether they should move to Git and right now when they did, they figured out that most people don't know how to use it, etc. etc. In other words, to much nerd driven, not enough business realistic driven. [1] http://www.spicefactory.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3803 -- Sebastian (PPMC) Interaction Designer Looking for a Login Example with Apache Flex? Please check out this code: http://code.google.com/p/masuland/wiki/LoginExample
RE: Are we nerd driven or business realistic driven?
Hello, Sebastian Zarzycki here, author of that unfortunate post on spicefactory.org forums. First of all, apologies, if this will not hit the right list or will land in a wrong spot. Last time I've used mailing lists was around '95 and it's definitely not a user-friendly experience to hop in and respond quickly to a given post. But here goes. First of all, as mentioned already on spicefactory.org forums, my opinions are my own. I don't feel it was perfectly ok to bring up my response to this list, taking it out of the context and without notifying me. Might be oversensitive here, but I would probably play it differently. But that's a minor issue really. Second, I've started my Flex experience, when Flex 2 was in beta, and Flex 1.5 was paid server. This was long time ago (around 2005 I think). I've seen all the changes that happened. I've contributed a lot to Flex during those days, fixed lots of bugs. I even might still have somewhere my Making Adobe Flex Better shirt created and mailed out to Jira contributors back then. If you happen to have it, you will find out my name there. This is obviously not a bragging contest, but to make you realize, I'm here from (almost) the very beginning. I'd like to expand on that initial post, as I'm sure it feels quite negative and aggressive in that form. Wasn't my intention to undermine the work that was done on Apache Flex during that time and to discourage great people that devote their spare time to improve on things. My hats off to you. It's also easy to critic while staying aside and not doing anything to help - guilty as charged. But, you can tell that there is a lot of frustration in Flex community and this was probably a way of getting it out of my chest. I'm pretty sure, opinions on that will vary, but this is all right. Then again, I'm quite sure that there are lot of people out there who share my views. Whatever you do, doesn't change the flex market condition and that's a fact. I observe this list very often from the very beginning so I'm quite familiar with all the topics brought to life and the way they were tackled. So putting this everything again in a more consistent form: - I still stand by nothing anything (really) good with Flex. Yes, this is harsh. Yes, it's unfair and significantly exaggerated. No, it's not really Apache fault. Please bear in mind that this is a bit different than nothing good for Flex. It took a lot of time, but there's finally a good looking website with flashy statements and encouraging content (I always felt that Adobe was too shy with promoting Flex). There was this migration and some bugs are fixed - that's fine. But when you consider that so much time has passed and, in fact, so little done, I fear that the window frame we could actually turn the tides over is long past us. - It's not the problem of Apache or any other community. I still stand by meritocracy doesn't work. The reality is that certain pieces of work, especially in code, have to managed by one person. The person that has the general vision and when things go bad, can smash the fist on the table and say No! It will be the way I want it to be!. That person can set up a plan, a roadmap and then find people who are going to fulfill that roadmap. This is (over-generalizing) what Adobe was doing and it was good. In Apache, we have meritocracy which basically means work on whatever you want, whenever you want. This might be ok for smaller projects, but Flex is no small project. What's more, it's an idea and a global platform people invested a lot in. This sort of responsibility cannot be handled by community. Community tends to come and go, flow by. Here you just need a solid vision and a solid development and marketing force. Without clear leadership and commitment, I simply don't see it. You might disagree, but then again, there's little in download section to prove it. - In general, I think that all Flex developers, despite all the internal framework mess and bad efficiency, love working with Flex. It's a brilliant technology and thanks to Flash Player / AIR, a dream come true. I've learned a lot how to be a good developer with Flex. It's natural that Flex developers are now disheartened and bitter. We've invested time to learn this and it's no longer paying off. But above everything else, I think that everyone feel deep inside, that it's not the business, but it's just sheer loss of such a great development tool to be constantly bashed, played down, laughed at and thrown away. We all know how cool it is. The world seem to never believe us. Isn't it this way? I'm sure most of you had a so I've heard that HTML5 is great, convince me to Flex situation for your contracts or in your companies. We fight, we struggle, and then all this energy is in vain now. This is extremely frustrating. - Internal bureaucracy is a fact. I don't want to go into a debate, whether it can be improved or whether
Re: Are we nerd driven or business realistic driven?
Strange how things come around. Definitely a surprise to see the poster find this list and reply. First off, you absolutely have the right to voice your opinion. You should never feel like you can't. I hold the freedom of speech and opinion in much higher regard than the possibility of that freedom inadvertently offending. I can't really speak on behalf of the hard working developers, but I can sympathize with you. Our company runs mission critical apps that have completely been build on and around Flex. When Adobe announced that they were no longer going to support flex, but were to hand it off to Apache - we had execs and managers running around in a frightened panic. When the Flex conference finally came where there were to be deeper explanations as to what is going to happen rolled around, our department heads attended and some of the anxiety was alleviated. However, there are still concerns, and there will continue to be concerns. So you should not be emabarassed for posting your concerns. I'm sure you will recieve responses from the developers that put much more time and effort into this than my mere list following and occasional question. Yes, massive corporations and business do rely heavily on Flex, but they also rely on Perl, Python, PHP, MySQL, Apache Server and TomCat, Java, etc. It is a new project, and there is a ramping up and adjustment period that needs to be considered. Even the most honed and hardcore open source devs who've planted code in some of the most successful projects can't just start an OS project and have it be all cream and butter from the start. Thanks for your reply though, I hope it wasn't too embarrassing to find your post in the mailing list. But it *was* posted on a public forum, it may or may not have caught the attention it did had it not been c/p to the list though. You have no need to feel weird man. Things get around, and in all honestly - opinions do matter. On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 12:42 PM, Sebastian Zarzycki sebastian.zarzy...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, Sebastian Zarzycki here, author of that unfortunate post on spicefactory.org forums. First of all, apologies, if this will not hit the right list or will land in a wrong spot. Last time I've used mailing lists was around '95 and it's definitely not a user-friendly experience to hop in and respond quickly to a given post. But here goes. First of all, as mentioned already on spicefactory.org forums, my opinions are my own. I don't feel it was perfectly ok to bring up my response to this list, taking it out of the context and without notifying me. Might be oversensitive here, but I would probably play it differently. But that's a minor issue really. Second, I've started my Flex experience, when Flex 2 was in beta, and Flex 1.5 was paid server. This was long time ago (around 2005 I think). I've seen all the changes that happened. I've contributed a lot to Flex during those days, fixed lots of bugs. I even might still have somewhere my Making Adobe Flex Better shirt created and mailed out to Jira contributors back then. If you happen to have it, you will find out my name there. This is obviously not a bragging contest, but to make you realize, I'm here from (almost) the very beginning. I'd like to expand on that initial post, as I'm sure it feels quite negative and aggressive in that form. Wasn't my intention to undermine the work that was done on Apache Flex during that time and to discourage great people that devote their spare time to improve on things. My hats off to you. It's also easy to critic while staying aside and not doing anything to help - guilty as charged. But, you can tell that there is a lot of frustration in Flex community and this was probably a way of getting it out of my chest. I'm pretty sure, opinions on that will vary, but this is all right. Then again, I'm quite sure that there are lot of people out there who share my views. Whatever you do, doesn't change the flex market condition and that's a fact. I observe this list very often from the very beginning so I'm quite familiar with all the topics brought to life and the way they were tackled. So putting this everything again in a more consistent form: - I still stand by nothing anything (really) good with Flex. Yes, this is harsh. Yes, it's unfair and significantly exaggerated. No, it's not really Apache fault. Please bear in mind that this is a bit different than nothing good for Flex. It took a lot of time, but there's finally a good looking website with flashy statements and encouraging content (I always felt that Adobe was too shy with promoting Flex). There was this migration and some bugs are fixed - that's fine. But when you consider that so much time has passed and, in fact, so little done, I fear that the window frame we could actually turn the tides over is long past us. - It's not the problem of Apache or any other community. I still stand by meritocracy doesn't work. The reality
Re: Are we nerd driven or business realistic driven?
ah, and on the mailing list bit - I've never been involved in any sort of major OS project that doesn't use mailing lists. Even wordpress uses mailing lists. I'm curious, how is it that you feel they are archaic? I find them extremely useful and quite common among development groups. On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Thomas Wright twri...@yesco.com wrote: Strange how things come around. Definitely a surprise to see the poster find this list and reply. First off, you absolutely have the right to voice your opinion. You should never feel like you can't. I hold the freedom of speech and opinion in much higher regard than the possibility of that freedom inadvertently offending. I can't really speak on behalf of the hard working developers, but I can sympathize with you. Our company runs mission critical apps that have completely been build on and around Flex. When Adobe announced that they were no longer going to support flex, but were to hand it off to Apache - we had execs and managers running around in a frightened panic. When the Flex conference finally came where there were to be deeper explanations as to what is going to happen rolled around, our department heads attended and some of the anxiety was alleviated. However, there are still concerns, and there will continue to be concerns. So you should not be emabarassed for posting your concerns. I'm sure you will recieve responses from the developers that put much more time and effort into this than my mere list following and occasional question. Yes, massive corporations and business do rely heavily on Flex, but they also rely on Perl, Python, PHP, MySQL, Apache Server and TomCat, Java, etc. It is a new project, and there is a ramping up and adjustment period that needs to be considered. Even the most honed and hardcore open source devs who've planted code in some of the most successful projects can't just start an OS project and have it be all cream and butter from the start. Thanks for your reply though, I hope it wasn't too embarrassing to find your post in the mailing list. But it *was* posted on a public forum, it may or may not have caught the attention it did had it not been c/p to the list though. You have no need to feel weird man. Things get around, and in all honestly - opinions do matter. On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 12:42 PM, Sebastian Zarzycki sebastian.zarzy...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, Sebastian Zarzycki here, author of that unfortunate post on spicefactory.org forums. First of all, apologies, if this will not hit the right list or will land in a wrong spot. Last time I've used mailing lists was around '95 and it's definitely not a user-friendly experience to hop in and respond quickly to a given post. But here goes. First of all, as mentioned already on spicefactory.org forums, my opinions are my own. I don't feel it was perfectly ok to bring up my response to this list, taking it out of the context and without notifying me. Might be oversensitive here, but I would probably play it differently. But that's a minor issue really. Second, I've started my Flex experience, when Flex 2 was in beta, and Flex 1.5 was paid server. This was long time ago (around 2005 I think). I've seen all the changes that happened. I've contributed a lot to Flex during those days, fixed lots of bugs. I even might still have somewhere my Making Adobe Flex Better shirt created and mailed out to Jira contributors back then. If you happen to have it, you will find out my name there. This is obviously not a bragging contest, but to make you realize, I'm here from (almost) the very beginning. I'd like to expand on that initial post, as I'm sure it feels quite negative and aggressive in that form. Wasn't my intention to undermine the work that was done on Apache Flex during that time and to discourage great people that devote their spare time to improve on things. My hats off to you. It's also easy to critic while staying aside and not doing anything to help - guilty as charged. But, you can tell that there is a lot of frustration in Flex community and this was probably a way of getting it out of my chest. I'm pretty sure, opinions on that will vary, but this is all right. Then again, I'm quite sure that there are lot of people out there who share my views. Whatever you do, doesn't change the flex market condition and that's a fact. I observe this list very often from the very beginning so I'm quite familiar with all the topics brought to life and the way they were tackled. So putting this everything again in a more consistent form: - I still stand by nothing anything (really) good with Flex. Yes, this is harsh. Yes, it's unfair and significantly exaggerated. No, it's not really Apache fault. Please bear in mind that this is a bit different than nothing good for Flex. It took a lot of time, but there's finally a good looking website with flashy statements and encouraging content (I always felt
Re: Are we nerd driven or business realistic driven?
This is probably a matter of personal preference. Developers do many weird things that regular people do not :) developers might still prefer vi over textmate and use sendmail. There might be other advantages I don't know of, but for the average user, this form of communication is troublesome. I don't feel I have to clog my mailing box and invent some filters, in order to communicate, scan for RE:RE:RE: topics and then dig through plenty of text, quoted, unquoted to the 4th level, fishing out for the actual response. Maybe it's just a whim. Or maybe I just feel too old for this :) We live in the technology world. We can do better. I just know that sometimes developers have a different definition of better :) Above everything else, whatever works for developers is probably ok and I don't mind (and shouldn't mind). But the user-driven community could for sure use a better format. S. ah, and on the mailing list bit - I've never been involved in any sort of major OS project that doesn't use mailing lists. Even wordpress uses mailing lists. I'm curious, how is it that you feel they are archaic? I find them extremely useful and quite common among development groups.
Jenkins build is back to normal : flex-sdk_asdoc #48
See https://builds.apache.org/job/flex-sdk_asdoc/48/
Re: Are we nerd driven or business realistic driven?
perhaps use a google account for your mailing lists by actually logging into the web interface. Google handles lists very well. You rarely have to deal with Re: Re: Re's and 5x indented quotes. It automagickally cuts all that nonsense out and you get a clean and readable stream. I use a client for everything else, but the google mail UI handles lists extremely well, I highly recommend it. On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 1:39 PM, Sebastian Zarzycki sebastian.zarzy...@gmail.com wrote: This is probably a matter of personal preference. Developers do many weird things that regular people do not :) developers might still prefer vi over textmate and use sendmail. There might be other advantages I don't know of, but for the average user, this form of communication is troublesome. I don't feel I have to clog my mailing box and invent some filters, in order to communicate, scan for RE:RE:RE: topics and then dig through plenty of text, quoted, unquoted to the 4th level, fishing out for the actual response. Maybe it's just a whim. Or maybe I just feel too old for this :) We live in the technology world. We can do better. I just know that sometimes developers have a different definition of better :) Above everything else, whatever works for developers is probably ok and I don't mind (and shouldn't mind). But the user-driven community could for sure use a better format. S. ah, and on the mailing list bit - I've never been involved in any sort of major OS project that doesn't use mailing lists. Even wordpress uses mailing lists. I'm curious, how is it that you feel they are archaic? I find them extremely useful and quite common among development groups. -- *Thomas Wright* Software Engineer Extension: 1054 Office: [801] 464.4600 Corporate Division twri...@yesco.com
Re: Are we nerd driven or business realistic driven?
@Sebastian No Offense but GWT is probably the best web framework out there. If you really understand what GWT can do for you wil never look to something else. I wrote something about it sometimes ago http://ekambi.blogspot.de/2013/06/why-gwt-is-awesome.html I always said it Flex as it is right now is in good shape. There s nothing wrong with running inside the Flash player. It s by trying to be an answer to everything that we will shoot ourself in the foot. If we are trying to cross compile to JS because of mobile then we should stop already. Our experience(at Emitrom) has shown that when planing mobile (98%)people dont even think about Flex. They just dont want it. Make flex the best framework for dekstop computer and enterprise app and that s should be enough. There are just so many things that are still a pain to implement in Flex. That where we should start. Cheers, Alain 2013/6/27 Thomas Wright twri...@yesco.com perhaps use a google account for your mailing lists by actually logging into the web interface. Google handles lists very well. You rarely have to deal with Re: Re: Re's and 5x indented quotes. It automagickally cuts all that nonsense out and you get a clean and readable stream. I use a client for everything else, but the google mail UI handles lists extremely well, I highly recommend it. On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 1:39 PM, Sebastian Zarzycki sebastian.zarzy...@gmail.com wrote: This is probably a matter of personal preference. Developers do many weird things that regular people do not :) developers might still prefer vi over textmate and use sendmail. There might be other advantages I don't know of, but for the average user, this form of communication is troublesome. I don't feel I have to clog my mailing box and invent some filters, in order to communicate, scan for RE:RE:RE: topics and then dig through plenty of text, quoted, unquoted to the 4th level, fishing out for the actual response. Maybe it's just a whim. Or maybe I just feel too old for this :) We live in the technology world. We can do better. I just know that sometimes developers have a different definition of better :) Above everything else, whatever works for developers is probably ok and I don't mind (and shouldn't mind). But the user-driven community could for sure use a better format. S. ah, and on the mailing list bit - I've never been involved in any sort of major OS project that doesn't use mailing lists. Even wordpress uses mailing lists. I'm curious, how is it that you feel they are archaic? I find them extremely useful and quite common among development groups. -- *Thomas Wright* Software Engineer Extension: 1054 Office: [801] 464.4600 Corporate Division twri...@yesco.com
Re: Are we nerd driven or business realistic driven?
@Alex I can share my experience concerning 1) Most of our customers dont want to migrate their app to JS. What they want is an easy way to integrate exiting JS libraries into their Flex app. For example hoe to integrate the JS Google Maps API with their existing Flex apps or How can I integrate my nice Flex DateGrid into this Ext JS application ? I said it once. Request for our Flash based stuff has increased over the time. Simply because Flash still does a lot of things better and more efficiently than JS. Even after the Adobe mess nothing changed for us. As a matter of fact we are looking to hire more people. So I dont know how is others people experience. But we lve Flex as it is around here. Cheers. 2013/6/27 Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com Hi, Thanks for writing and providing more detail. I have the following questions and comments. 1) You recommended we talk to banks and other businesses. I assume you have. Do you have any data you can share with us? I've been pondering how to get reliable data on what, if anything, folks are looking for. In December 2011, Adobe invited several major banks and other major Flex customers to a summit. In my conversations with the attendees, the desire to have a migration path for their Flash-based Flex apps to HTML/JS/CSS was my main takeaway, and that is what I've been working on with the FlexJS prototypes. Of course, it's been 18 months since then so things could have changed, so if you have more recent data to share, it would save the community some time. Your list was much for Flash-based than I would have expected, but maybe these banks are no longer in such a hurry to migrate. 2) The list of changes you would like to see to current Flex matches up pretty much with what we've seen and heard from the community. Yes, we all wish more could have been done regarding these topics in the past 18 months, but to be 'realistic', the number of developer hours spent on the Flex SDK per-day has dropped significantly since Adobe donated Flex to Apache. It would be nice to see more folks get paid by their employers to work full time on Apache Flex, but it hasn't happened. And consider that, in the area of performance, several Adobe engineers spent a lot of time trying to find ways to improve performance and there aren't any global hotspots left. Flex suffers from being warm everywhere. One of the reasons the AS-side of the FlexJS framework uses small re-usable pieces is in an attempt to take advantage of the JIT and run certain chunks of code more often. And keep in mind that the current SDK is heavily tied to Flash and its performance characteristics are outside the control of Apache Flex. So, we can all wish for more, but at this point, I think you have to lower your expectations of how the current SDK can be made faster. I've given up on anything other than the full rewrite I'm doing with FlexJS. 3) It is certainly possible that FlexJS or any of the other variants of Flex on JS may never be successful, but for sure, FlexJS does not have the layers you claim it does. It just compiles MXML and AS to JS. When I run the examples, the JS versions actually start up faster than the SWF versions. And, when I get more databinding working, I'm going to start a discussion about cutting releases of this stuff. Yes, the first releases will be 'alpha' quality, but it will get better faster by getting more folks to bang on it. Meanwhile, I have an internal customer that is trying to migrate a real-world application on to FlexJS so I will be in the loop on how this framework scales. And anybody else is welcome to try to port their applications as well. 4) Many of us in the Apache Flex community are doing a lot of work that isn't sexy. If you don't believe me, you try getting a mustella test engine to work with Jenkins or fix dozens of date-localization bugs. I am doing what I think is on the top of the community's list that provides the biggest bang for my time. Continuing to look for small increments in performance isn't going to have the pay-off of trying to make your apps run without Flash. But if you have data to the contrary, please share. -Alex On 6/27/13 11:42 AM, Sebastian Zarzycki sebastian.zarzy...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, Sebastian Zarzycki here, author of that unfortunate post on spicefactory.org forums. First of all, apologies, if this will not hit the right list or will land in a wrong spot. Last time I've used mailing lists was around '95 and it's definitely not a user-friendly experience to hop in and respond quickly to a given post. But here goes. First of all, as mentioned already on spicefactory.org forums, my opinions are my own. I don't feel it was perfectly ok to bring up my response to this list, taking it out of the context and without notifying me. Might be oversensitive here, but I would probably play it differently. But that's a minor issue really. Second,
Re: Are we nerd driven or business realistic driven?
Hi Sebastian, You quoted the last of 3 posts in that thread. To me, the most important snippet is in the original post where the OP asks: Jens, if you're still around... The point of donating Swiz or Parsley or any existing code base to Apache is that at Apache, there are mailing lists that you know people are reading. If I was a consumer of Parsley but didn't have the skills or time to make changes to it, I would be worried about how to get maintenance and support for it. But if Parsley was donated to Apache, I might not have that worry. Jens is incorrect about whether Apache can just take a fork. Legally it can, it from a policy perspective, Apache does not take code. I suppose we could argue that Jens' post gives us permission, but it would be better if he was more explicit, and if the code is copyrighted to Spice Factory instead of Jens personally, we probably need a Software Grant from Spice Factory. Apache is a corporation and does come with more overhead than a GitHub project probably does, but that overhead provides legal, process, and infrastructural guarantees that should draw more corporate customers. -Alex On 6/27/13 4:23 AM, Sebastian Mohr flex.masul...@gmail.com wrote: Hi there, just wonder what you think about this forum post of the SpiceFactory forum [1]: With all due respect, I don't believe Apache did anything good with Flex. They struggle with a lot of internal bureaucracy and I believe that without clear leadership, this meritocracy thing just doesn't work. For the past year, Apache Flex community debated whether they should move to Git and right now when they did, they figured out that most people don't know how to use it, etc. etc. In other words, to much nerd driven, not enough business realistic driven. [1] http://www.spicefactory.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3803 -- Sebastian (PPMC) Interaction Designer Looking for a Login Example with Apache Flex? Please check out this code: http://code.google.com/p/masuland/wiki/LoginExample
Re: Are we nerd driven or business realistic driven?
Hi, I just want to throw in that I have been doing a bunch of apps with Flex mobile and am constantly amazed at how good it performs across devices. I am talking about data intensive visualizations with a lot of number crunching, charts and animations. Of course, as with Objective-C or Java, you need to be very careful about orchestrating your code so that it does not choke the system. And I have been testing the apps on my Galaxy Tab and iPad, and all real issues I have been facing is related to dpi mismatches and such. So, when folks are saying that Flex does not perform well on mobile, can you please post some examples, etc so we can try to figure out what the real problems? As opposed to sweeping statements like Flex mobile sucks, etc. Thanks, Om On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 2:23 PM, Alain Ekambi jazzmatad...@gmail.comwrote: @Alex I can share my experience concerning 1) Most of our customers dont want to migrate their app to JS. What they want is an easy way to integrate exiting JS libraries into their Flex app. For example hoe to integrate the JS Google Maps API with their existing Flex apps or How can I integrate my nice Flex DateGrid into this Ext JS application ? I said it once. Request for our Flash based stuff has increased over the time. Simply because Flash still does a lot of things better and more efficiently than JS. Even after the Adobe mess nothing changed for us. As a matter of fact we are looking to hire more people. So I dont know how is others people experience. But we lve Flex as it is around here. Cheers. 2013/6/27 Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com Hi, Thanks for writing and providing more detail. I have the following questions and comments. 1) You recommended we talk to banks and other businesses. I assume you have. Do you have any data you can share with us? I've been pondering how to get reliable data on what, if anything, folks are looking for. In December 2011, Adobe invited several major banks and other major Flex customers to a summit. In my conversations with the attendees, the desire to have a migration path for their Flash-based Flex apps to HTML/JS/CSS was my main takeaway, and that is what I've been working on with the FlexJS prototypes. Of course, it's been 18 months since then so things could have changed, so if you have more recent data to share, it would save the community some time. Your list was much for Flash-based than I would have expected, but maybe these banks are no longer in such a hurry to migrate. 2) The list of changes you would like to see to current Flex matches up pretty much with what we've seen and heard from the community. Yes, we all wish more could have been done regarding these topics in the past 18 months, but to be 'realistic', the number of developer hours spent on the Flex SDK per-day has dropped significantly since Adobe donated Flex to Apache. It would be nice to see more folks get paid by their employers to work full time on Apache Flex, but it hasn't happened. And consider that, in the area of performance, several Adobe engineers spent a lot of time trying to find ways to improve performance and there aren't any global hotspots left. Flex suffers from being warm everywhere. One of the reasons the AS-side of the FlexJS framework uses small re-usable pieces is in an attempt to take advantage of the JIT and run certain chunks of code more often. And keep in mind that the current SDK is heavily tied to Flash and its performance characteristics are outside the control of Apache Flex. So, we can all wish for more, but at this point, I think you have to lower your expectations of how the current SDK can be made faster. I've given up on anything other than the full rewrite I'm doing with FlexJS. 3) It is certainly possible that FlexJS or any of the other variants of Flex on JS may never be successful, but for sure, FlexJS does not have the layers you claim it does. It just compiles MXML and AS to JS. When I run the examples, the JS versions actually start up faster than the SWF versions. And, when I get more databinding working, I'm going to start a discussion about cutting releases of this stuff. Yes, the first releases will be 'alpha' quality, but it will get better faster by getting more folks to bang on it. Meanwhile, I have an internal customer that is trying to migrate a real-world application on to FlexJS so I will be in the loop on how this framework scales. And anybody else is welcome to try to port their applications as well. 4) Many of us in the Apache Flex community are doing a lot of work that isn't sexy. If you don't believe me, you try getting a mustella test engine to work with Jenkins or fix dozens of date-localization bugs. I am doing what I think is on the top of the community's list that provides the biggest bang for my time. Continuing to look for small
Re: Are we nerd driven or business realistic driven?
OmPrakash, Same here, I'm extremely pleased at it's performance and cross platform compatibility. Our mobile apps are of the same caliber, data intensive, charts, graphs, submissions, maps, gps ... blah blah blah - on and on, and it performs like an all out champ. The resolution and pixel density is the most annoying, it would be cool to have some way to automatically take care of that. The only other issue I've noticed is with the iPhone. For instance, accessing and catching images with imagePromise and working with files requires a few tricks, but having looked into the issues and Apples unique way of doing their own thing, I can't complain. But ya, Flex Mobile has been a god send. On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 3:43 PM, OmPrakash Muppirala bigosma...@gmail.comwrote: Hi, I just want to throw in that I have been doing a bunch of apps with Flex mobile and am constantly amazed at how good it performs across devices. I am talking about data intensive visualizations with a lot of number crunching, charts and animations. Of course, as with Objective-C or Java, you need to be very careful about orchestrating your code so that it does not choke the system. And I have been testing the apps on my Galaxy Tab and iPad, and all real issues I have been facing is related to dpi mismatches and such. So, when folks are saying that Flex does not perform well on mobile, can you please post some examples, etc so we can try to figure out what the real problems? As opposed to sweeping statements like Flex mobile sucks, etc. Thanks, Om On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 2:23 PM, Alain Ekambi jazzmatad...@gmail.com wrote: @Alex I can share my experience concerning 1) Most of our customers dont want to migrate their app to JS. What they want is an easy way to integrate exiting JS libraries into their Flex app. For example hoe to integrate the JS Google Maps API with their existing Flex apps or How can I integrate my nice Flex DateGrid into this Ext JS application ? I said it once. Request for our Flash based stuff has increased over the time. Simply because Flash still does a lot of things better and more efficiently than JS. Even after the Adobe mess nothing changed for us. As a matter of fact we are looking to hire more people. So I dont know how is others people experience. But we lve Flex as it is around here. Cheers. 2013/6/27 Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com Hi, Thanks for writing and providing more detail. I have the following questions and comments. 1) You recommended we talk to banks and other businesses. I assume you have. Do you have any data you can share with us? I've been pondering how to get reliable data on what, if anything, folks are looking for. In December 2011, Adobe invited several major banks and other major Flex customers to a summit. In my conversations with the attendees, the desire to have a migration path for their Flash-based Flex apps to HTML/JS/CSS was my main takeaway, and that is what I've been working on with the FlexJS prototypes. Of course, it's been 18 months since then so things could have changed, so if you have more recent data to share, it would save the community some time. Your list was much for Flash-based than I would have expected, but maybe these banks are no longer in such a hurry to migrate. 2) The list of changes you would like to see to current Flex matches up pretty much with what we've seen and heard from the community. Yes, we all wish more could have been done regarding these topics in the past 18 months, but to be 'realistic', the number of developer hours spent on the Flex SDK per-day has dropped significantly since Adobe donated Flex to Apache. It would be nice to see more folks get paid by their employers to work full time on Apache Flex, but it hasn't happened. And consider that, in the area of performance, several Adobe engineers spent a lot of time trying to find ways to improve performance and there aren't any global hotspots left. Flex suffers from being warm everywhere. One of the reasons the AS-side of the FlexJS framework uses small re-usable pieces is in an attempt to take advantage of the JIT and run certain chunks of code more often. And keep in mind that the current SDK is heavily tied to Flash and its performance characteristics are outside the control of Apache Flex. So, we can all wish for more, but at this point, I think you have to lower your expectations of how the current SDK can be made faster. I've given up on anything other than the full rewrite I'm doing with FlexJS. 3) It is certainly possible that FlexJS or any of the other variants of Flex on JS may never be successful, but for sure, FlexJS does not have the layers you claim it does. It just compiles MXML and AS to JS. When I run the examples, the JS versions actually start up
Re: Are we nerd driven or business realistic driven?
Hi, Thanks for the time to reply and sorry if you feel you post was taken out of context. You're certainly welcome to express your views on this list and elsewhere. - It's not the problem of Apache or any other community. I still stand by meritocracy doesn't work. Just because other models exist doesn't mean that meritocracy doesn't work. I think there are many successful project at Apache (and elsewhere) that show otherwise. This doesn't mean that it's easy however. There are issues with managed by one person model. For instance what happens when that person (in time) move on to something else? Or when there a disagreement in direction. Who pays for or encourages developers to give time/implementing the vision? How do you build a community around this? All of these have been issues with some of the Flex frameworks that had this model. Without significant funding and resources I couldn't that model working with Flex long term and it's not the Apache way. Of course anyone is welcome to take the Flex project, fork it and run with it how they want. What's more, it's an idea and a global platform people invested a lot in. This sort of responsibility cannot be handled by community. Community tends to come and go, flow by. The people that invested a lot in Flex are part of the community, it up to them how they want to contribute or not. - The way Apache's doing things feels very archaic to me sometimes. Mailing lists? Really? Mailing lists are needed so that a) everything is in the open and b) given that people live in different timezone around the world a way to easily respond. I assume you prefer a web forum style? I find web forums slow, buggy, slow and hard to search on, hard to use on mobile devices and assume you're always have a connection. Each to their own. But there's no reason why we can't have both this has been raised before and doesn't look too hard to set up. See https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLEX-33536 Anyone up to help out here? Then we have links to apache and markmail. Case study - Markmail for users mailing lists doesn't work. Also been raised before. Anyone? https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLEX-33538 - improve on skinning/styling approach. It's a known fact, that Flex 4 is generally slower than Flex 3. That's no good. Generally slower yes but some people feel it has other advantages. The right question to ask is it fast enough for what I need done? In most cases the answer is yes. All frameworks are tradeoff between convenience, functionally, time saving on one hand and performance on the other. There's also the question given that spark was build around Adobe tooling that is no longer being developed further, is spark actually a good direction to go in? Quick often when doing simple things I find spark and skinning gets in the way, when the older CSS styling in mx does the job simply and effectively. - get rid of mx totally and fill in missing spark parts That is being done, there's a fair number of new spark components in the new experimental namespace. Like everything this takes time and effort. But I don't see we can get rid of mx entirely, there still a lot of flex out here that uses mx and I don;t think it what users of the SDK would want. He still get JIRA issues raised against Flex 3 :-) - clean and easy to access 3rd party component market / shareplace That's possibly a good business opportunity for someone, but Adobe tried this many times (anyone remember central?) and never managed to really get it off the ground. - figure out the global chokepoints and improve on speed There still places where I feel speed can be improved and we have better tools (advanced telemetry) to make the job easier. There are not going to be order of magnitude speed improvements but will be significant, there already been some significant speed improvements with CSS styling and the ADG. Flex 4 performance is currently a laughing stock. I have to disagree on that point, and its certainly not been my experience. - arm Flex beautifully for mobile. What do you need needs to be one here? Thanks for the ideas on where you see Flex needs to be improved - feedback is always useful. Thanks, Justin
