Re: [l10n-dev] OpenCTI use?

[Jean-Christophe Helary]

On 20 juil. 10, at 18:06, Andre Schnabel wrote:

> Hi,
> 
>> Von: Reiko Saito 
>> An: dev@l10n.openoffice.org
> 
>> 
>> Could anyone let me know why TBX is desireble,
>> rather than csv in your translation ?
> 
> Because it is a LISA standard that can be (and is) implemented by
> several tools?

:) Indeed that is the best answer.

There is a standard that is going to be much simpler to use and implement and 
that will also be a LISA standard, it is GlossML, developed by Rodolfo Raya of 
Maxprograms.

It is currently under discussion at LISA. Its structure is much closer to what 
we need in real life for localization activities but since it is not yet a 
standard it may be too early to discuss it even if it is very promising.

Jean-Christophe Helary

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Re: [l10n-dev] OpenCTI use?

[Andre Schnabel]

Hi,

> Von: Reiko Saito 
> An: dev@l10n.openoffice.org

> 
> Could anyone let me know why TBX is desireble,
> rather than csv in your translation ?

Because it is a LISA standard that can be (and is) implemented by
several tools?

So instead of using csv (where each and every tool might have a different
idea, what values to export in what order) we might use a file format
where tools have a common understanding how to process the content.

regards,

André
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Re: [l10n-dev] OpenCTI use?

[Jean-Christophe Helary]

Hello Reiko,

> Could you or anyone let me know how you want to
> use TBX format of glossary ?
> 
> I believe OmegaT supports csv format in
> glossary feature.

That is correct. Test versions of OmegaT support normal TSV files (.utf8 or 
.txt), CSV files (.csv) and TBX files (.tbx).

Supported fields are source term/target term/comment but I am not sure how they 
are labelled in TBX.

> Could anyone let me know why TBX is desireble, rather than csv in your 
> translation ?

My guess is that TBX allows the glossary maintainer to have a finer control on 
the glossary contents  by using all the allowed categories and labels, and to 
let the tools do their parsing according to their ability.


Jean-Christophe Helary

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Re: [l10n-dev] OpenCTI use?

[Reiko Saito]

Hi JC,

Thanks!

Could you or anyone let me know how you want to
use TBX format of glossary ?

I believe OmegaT supports csv format in
glossary feature.

Could anyone let me know why TBX is desireble,
rather than csv in your translation ?

Regards,

-Reiko


(2010/07/19 7:41), Jean-Christophe Helary wrote:

On 19 juil. 10, at 06:23, Elsa Blume wrote:


Hi Sophie,

Getting back to you on this topic!
And gathering info about the import/export option in TBX format to help you 
update the TD.
Could you please tell me which are the tools/editors the Community wants to use 
to work with TBX format?


OmegaT or Virtaal both support TBX.

Jean-Christophe Helary

fun: http://mac4translators.blogspot.com
work: http://www.doublet.jp (ja/en > fr)
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Re: [l10n-dev] OpenCTI use?

[Jean-Christophe Helary]

On 19 juil. 10, at 06:23, Elsa Blume wrote:

> Hi Sophie,
> 
> Getting back to you on this topic!
> And gathering info about the import/export option in TBX format to help you 
> update the TD.
> Could you please tell me which are the tools/editors the Community wants to 
> use to work with TBX format?

OmegaT or Virtaal both support TBX.

Jean-Christophe Helary

fun: http://mac4translators.blogspot.com
work: http://www.doublet.jp (ja/en > fr)
tweets: http://twitter.com/brandelune


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Re: [l10n-dev] OpenCTI use?

[Elsa Blume]

Hi Sophie,

Getting back to you on this topic!
And gathering info about the import/export option in TBX format to help 
you update the TD.
Could you please tell me which are the tools/editors the Community wants 
to use to work with TBX format?


Kind regards,
Elsa


Sophie schrieb:

Hi Rafaella, Elsa
Rafaella Braconi wrote:

Hi Elsa,

Elsa Blume ha scritto:

Hi Rafaella, Sophie and Jean-Christophe,

Just a clarification based on the information I have: the OpenOffice 
and StarOffice glossaries contained in SunGloss have been imported 
into OpenCTI and are to be found under the Terminology Tab.
When you search a word, you can see to which category it belongs by 
clicking on it (Product: OfficeSuites:StarOffice).
But it is true that there is no OpenOffice project appearing in the 
OpenCTI project explorer, which may be confusing at first sight and 
which could indeed ease the search.


It is also true that the OpenOffice terminology hasn't been updated 
for a while and it should be done before some valuable Community 
work gets lost.
So, regarding terminology management and updates, it would be very 
useful for the Community to be able to import new terms lists into 
OpenCTI database. And I would be happy to help the Community, but 
I'm sorry, I don't know myself how to proceed...


Thank you Elsa for this information. I'm sure we will find a solution 
to update our glossaries once we know which tool we can use :-)


@Rafaella: do you know if it's already possible to export and import 
standard formats like TBX in OpenCTI?
no, unfortunately I don't know. The information I could gather since 
yesterday are:


- All SunGloss content has been migrated to OpenCTI
- All SunGoss logins are no more valid and have not been migrated
- Terms can be looked up without account
- To update/add terms you need an account (need to register first)


Thanks a lot also Rafaella. Don't hesitate to tell me if I can be of 
any help.


Kind regards
Sophie


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Re: [l10n-dev] OpenCTI use?

[Jordi Serratosa]

Hi
Just to add an alternative, I came across this terminology management 
system, which looks interesting and apparently has an opensource edition:


It's based on MediaWiki.
I do not have any experience on it nor I'm affiliated with this company.

salut
jordi s

El 18/06/2010 14:51, en/na Sophie ha escrit:

Hi Rafaella,
Rafaella Braconi wrote:

Hi Sophie,


That was a more general comment on the tools we are using or the 
lack of.
TCM is not maintained any more but we are more and more to use it 
and we have no alternative whatever the wish list we draw, SunGloss 
is not maintained any more, we have more and more languages and 
there is no alternative. After two years of continuous errors and 
failures (and mails ;) we might have in several weeks, a new machine 
(but not for 3.3 if I understand well) to host Pootle. So when I 
consider the work we will have in the next weeks, I'm not so happy 
and I feel I should battle more for this project :-)


I was speaking of OpenICT because it was said that we may use it. 
But if it's another tool, no problem for me. All I want is to push 
to have an alternative to SunGloss without loosing the work already 
done.
I would like to know if it's a budget issue or a technical issue or 
anything else. May be I can help to find money or the right tool or 
may be it already exists and need to be further developed. And it's 
exactly the same for TCS.
really thank you for your offer to help. Your support is much 
appreciated and I think that it would very good to go through what we 
have, the current requirements and what we need. Would you be 
available to work with me on this?


Yes, with pleasure :)

Kind regards
Sophie

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Re: [l10n-dev] OpenCTI use?

[F Wolff]

Op Do, 2010-06-17 om 14:49 +0200 skryf Rafaella Braconi:
> Hi Sophie,
> >
> > Is it planed to migrate OpenOffice.org glossaries from SunGloss to 
> > OpenCTI?
> no. There are no plans to migrate OOo glossaries from SunGloss to
> OpenCTI.
> > If yes, do you have a time frame of when it'll be done? I would
> like 
> > to maintain the French glossary and I have already several terms to 
> > add from the former versions.
> You are raising a very good topic - terminology management for OOo. I 
> think that this is a good time to start gathering the requirements.
> What 
> would you expect from a terminology tool? What are the key functions?
> Is 
> this something that is already covered by the Pootle Terminology 
> function? Is this something that can be set up in the OOo wiki system?

Hi everybody

We keep on talking about the coming Pootle server.  So to build your
excitement:  the upcoming version of Pootle will still have all of the
terminology features, but also support terminology extraction, and some
abilities to do terminology management, such as editing the source text
of the term, adding and removing terms, etc.

I hope it will help more teams to do good terminology work along with
their translations.

Keep well
Friedel


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Re: [l10n-dev] OpenCTI use?

[Sophie]

Hi Rafaella,
Rafaella Braconi wrote:

Hi Sophie,


That was a more general comment on the tools we are using or the lack of.
TCM is not maintained any more but we are more and more to use it and 
we have no alternative whatever the wish list we draw, SunGloss is not 
maintained any more, we have more and more languages and there is no 
alternative. After two years of continuous errors and failures (and 
mails ;) we might have in several weeks, a new machine (but not for 
3.3 if I understand well) to host Pootle. So when I consider the work 
we will have in the next weeks, I'm not so happy and I feel I should 
battle more for this project :-)


I was speaking of OpenICT because it was said that we may use it. But 
if it's another tool, no problem for me. All I want is to push to have 
an alternative to SunGloss without loosing the work already done.
I would like to know if it's a budget issue or a technical issue or 
anything else. May be I can help to find money or the right tool or 
may be it already exists and need to be further developed. And it's 
exactly the same for TCS.
really thank you for your offer to help. Your support is much 
appreciated and I think that it would very good to go through what we 
have, the current requirements and what we need. Would you be available 
to work with me on this?


Yes, with pleasure :)

Kind regards
Sophie

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Re: [l10n-dev] OpenCTI use?

[Sophie]

Hi Rafaella, Elsa
Rafaella Braconi wrote:

Hi Elsa,

Elsa Blume ha scritto:

Hi Rafaella, Sophie and Jean-Christophe,

Just a clarification based on the information I have: the OpenOffice 
and StarOffice glossaries contained in SunGloss have been imported 
into OpenCTI and are to be found under the Terminology Tab.
When you search a word, you can see to which category it belongs by 
clicking on it (Product: OfficeSuites:StarOffice).
But it is true that there is no OpenOffice project appearing in the 
OpenCTI project explorer, which may be confusing at first sight and 
which could indeed ease the search.


It is also true that the OpenOffice terminology hasn't been updated 
for a while and it should be done before some valuable Community work 
gets lost.
So, regarding terminology management and updates, it would be very 
useful for the Community to be able to import new terms lists into 
OpenCTI database. And I would be happy to help the Community, but I'm 
sorry, I don't know myself how to proceed...


Thank you Elsa for this information. I'm sure we will find a solution to 
update our glossaries once we know which tool we can use :-)


@Rafaella: do you know if it's already possible to export and import 
standard formats like TBX in OpenCTI?
no, unfortunately I don't know. The information I could gather since 
yesterday are:


- All SunGloss content has been migrated to OpenCTI
- All SunGoss logins are no more valid and have not been migrated
- Terms can be looked up without account
- To update/add terms you need an account (need to register first)


Thanks a lot also Rafaella. Don't hesitate to tell me if I can be of any 
help.


Kind regards
Sophie


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Re: [l10n-dev] OpenCTI use?

[Rafaella Braconi]

Hi Sophie,


That was a more general comment on the tools we are using or the lack of.
TCM is not maintained any more but we are more and more to use it and 
we have no alternative whatever the wish list we draw, SunGloss is not 
maintained any more, we have more and more languages and there is no 
alternative. After two years of continuous errors and failures (and 
mails ;) we might have in several weeks, a new machine (but not for 
3.3 if I understand well) to host Pootle. So when I consider the work 
we will have in the next weeks, I'm not so happy and I feel I should 
battle more for this project :-)


I was speaking of OpenICT because it was said that we may use it. But 
if it's another tool, no problem for me. All I want is to push to have 
an alternative to SunGloss without loosing the work already done.
I would like to know if it's a budget issue or a technical issue or 
anything else. May be I can help to find money or the right tool or 
may be it already exists and need to be further developed. And it's 
exactly the same for TCS.
really thank you for your offer to help. Your support is much 
appreciated and I think that it would very good to go through what we 
have, the current requirements and what we need. Would you be available 
to work with me on this?


Kind Regards,
Rafaella

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Re: [l10n-dev] OpenCTI use?

[Elsa Blume]

Hi Rafaella,

Thank you for your prompt reaction.
Ok, then, let's try to get more info :-)!

Kind regards,
Elsa

Rafaella Braconi schrieb:

Hi Elsa,

Elsa Blume ha scritto:

Hi Rafaella, Sophie and Jean-Christophe,

Just a clarification based on the information I have: the OpenOffice 
and StarOffice glossaries contained in SunGloss have been imported 
into OpenCTI and are to be found under the Terminology Tab.
When you search a word, you can see to which category it belongs by 
clicking on it (Product: OfficeSuites:StarOffice).
But it is true that there is no OpenOffice project appearing in the 
OpenCTI project explorer, which may be confusing at first sight and 
which could indeed ease the search.


It is also true that the OpenOffice terminology hasn't been updated 
for a while and it should be done before some valuable Community work 
gets lost.
So, regarding terminology management and updates, it would be very 
useful for the Community to be able to import new terms lists into 
OpenCTI database. And I would be happy to help the Community, but I'm 
sorry, I don't know myself how to proceed...
@Rafaella: do you know if it's already possible to export and import 
standard formats like TBX in OpenCTI?
no, unfortunately I don't know. The information I could gather since 
yesterday are:


- All SunGloss content has been migrated to OpenCTI
- All SunGoss logins are no more valid and have not been migrated
- Terms can be looked up without account
- To update/add terms you need an account (need to register first)

That's all,
Rafaella

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Re: [l10n-dev] OpenCTI use?

[Rafaella Braconi]

Hi Elsa,

Elsa Blume ha scritto:

Hi Rafaella, Sophie and Jean-Christophe,

Just a clarification based on the information I have: the OpenOffice 
and StarOffice glossaries contained in SunGloss have been imported 
into OpenCTI and are to be found under the Terminology Tab.
When you search a word, you can see to which category it belongs by 
clicking on it (Product: OfficeSuites:StarOffice).
But it is true that there is no OpenOffice project appearing in the 
OpenCTI project explorer, which may be confusing at first sight and 
which could indeed ease the search.


It is also true that the OpenOffice terminology hasn't been updated 
for a while and it should be done before some valuable Community work 
gets lost.
So, regarding terminology management and updates, it would be very 
useful for the Community to be able to import new terms lists into 
OpenCTI database. And I would be happy to help the Community, but I'm 
sorry, I don't know myself how to proceed...
@Rafaella: do you know if it's already possible to export and import 
standard formats like TBX in OpenCTI?
no, unfortunately I don't know. The information I could gather since 
yesterday are:


- All SunGloss content has been migrated to OpenCTI
- All SunGoss logins are no more valid and have not been migrated
- Terms can be looked up without account
- To update/add terms you need an account (need to register first)

That's all,
Rafaella

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Re: [l10n-dev] OpenCTI use?

[Elsa Blume]

Hi Rafaella, Sophie and Jean-Christophe,

Just a clarification based on the information I have: the OpenOffice and 
StarOffice glossaries contained in SunGloss have been imported into 
OpenCTI and are to be found under the Terminology Tab.
When you search a word, you can see to which category it belongs by 
clicking on it (Product: OfficeSuites:StarOffice).
But it is true that there is no OpenOffice project appearing in the 
OpenCTI project explorer, which may be confusing at first sight and 
which could indeed ease the search.


It is also true that the OpenOffice terminology hasn't been updated for 
a while and it should be done before some valuable Community work gets lost.
So, regarding terminology management and updates, it would be very 
useful for the Community to be able to import new terms lists into 
OpenCTI database. And I would be happy to help the Community, but I'm 
sorry, I don't know myself how to proceed...
@Rafaella: do you know if it's already possible to export and import 
standard formats like TBX in OpenCTI?


Kind regards,

Elsa

Sophie schrieb:

Rafaella Braconi wrote:

Hi Sophie,

On 17.06.10 17:49, Sophie wrote:

Hi Rafaella,
Rafaella Braconi wrote:

Hi Sophie,


Is it planed to migrate OpenOffice.org glossaries from SunGloss to 
OpenCTI?
no. There are no plans to migrate OOo glossaries from SunGloss to 
OpenCTI.


ok, I feel that we are still the poor parent of the project...
not sure if I understand this comment. Has OpenCTI all what you are 
looking for for terminology management?


That was a more general comment on the tools we are using or the lack of.
TCM is not maintained any more but we are more and more to use it and 
we have no alternative whatever the wish list we draw, SunGloss is not 
maintained any more, we have more and more languages and there is no 
alternative. After two years of continuous errors and failures (and 
mails ;) we might have in several weeks, a new machine (but not for 
3.3 if I understand well) to host Pootle. So when I consider the work 
we will have in the next weeks, I'm not so happy and I feel I should 
battle more for this project :-)


I was speaking of OpenICT because it was said that we may use it. But 
if it's another tool, no problem for me. All I want is to push to have 
an alternative to SunGloss without loosing the work already done.
I would like to know if it's a budget issue or a technical issue or 
anything else. May be I can help to find money or the right tool or 
may be it already exists and need to be further developed. And it's 
exactly the same for TCS.


Kind regards
Sophie


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Re: [l10n-dev] OpenCTI use?

[Sophie]

Rafaella Braconi wrote:

Hi Sophie,

On 17.06.10 17:49, Sophie wrote:

Hi Rafaella,
Rafaella Braconi wrote:

Hi Sophie,


Is it planed to migrate OpenOffice.org glossaries from SunGloss to 
OpenCTI?
no. There are no plans to migrate OOo glossaries from SunGloss to 
OpenCTI.


ok, I feel that we are still the poor parent of the project...
not sure if I understand this comment. Has OpenCTI all what you are 
looking for for terminology management?


That was a more general comment on the tools we are using or the lack of.
TCM is not maintained any more but we are more and more to use it and we 
have no alternative whatever the wish list we draw, SunGloss is not 
maintained any more, we have more and more languages and there is no 
alternative. After two years of continuous errors and failures (and 
mails ;) we might have in several weeks, a new machine (but not for 3.3 
if I understand well) to host Pootle. So when I consider the work we 
will have in the next weeks, I'm not so happy and I feel I should battle 
more for this project :-)


I was speaking of OpenICT because it was said that we may use it. But if 
it's another tool, no problem for me. All I want is to push to have an 
alternative to SunGloss without loosing the work already done.
I would like to know if it's a budget issue or a technical issue or 
anything else. May be I can help to find money or the right tool or may 
be it already exists and need to be further developed. And it's exactly 
the same for TCS.


Kind regards
Sophie


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Re: [l10n-dev] OpenCTI use?

[Rafaella Braconi]

Hi Sophie,

On 17.06.10 17:49, Sophie wrote:

Hi Rafaella,
Rafaella Braconi wrote:

Hi Sophie,


Is it planed to migrate OpenOffice.org glossaries from SunGloss to 
OpenCTI?
no. There are no plans to migrate OOo glossaries from SunGloss to 
OpenCTI.


ok, I feel that we are still the poor parent of the project...
not sure if I understand this comment. Has OpenCTI all what you are 
looking for for terminology management?


- easily manage export and import of standard formats (TBX), to allow to 
work offline

- accessible and open source
- the ability to add comments to a word and the source of it (as in 
SunGloss), to add links to other sources

- the ability to search in several languages (as in SunGloss)
- a date and history of the word entry
- a seamless integration with translation tools

If this is what you are saying, I have no problem in going with OpenCTI.

Just let me know,
Rafaella


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Re: [l10n-dev] OpenCTI use?

[Sophie]

Hi Rafaella,
Rafaella Braconi wrote:

Hi Sophie,


Is it planed to migrate OpenOffice.org glossaries from SunGloss to 
OpenCTI?

no. There are no plans to migrate OOo glossaries from SunGloss to OpenCTI.


ok, I feel that we are still the poor parent of the project...

If yes, do you have a time frame of when it'll be done? I would like 
to maintain the French glossary and I have already several terms to 
add from the former versions.
You are raising a very good topic - terminology management for OOo. I 
think that this is a good time to start gathering the requirements. What 
would you expect from a terminology tool? What are the key functions? Is 
this something that is already covered by the Pootle Terminology 
function? Is this something that can be set up in the OOo wiki system?


Back in October, I begin a wish list based on the feedback provided by 
the community members after my first mail on this, here it is:


- easily manage export and import of standard formats (TBX), to allow to 
work offline

- accessible and open source
- the ability to add comments to a word and the source of it (as in 
SunGloss), to add links to other sources

- the ability to search in several languages (as in SunGloss)
- a date and history of the word entry
- a seamless integration with translation tools

Kind regards
Sophie


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Re: [l10n-dev] OpenCTI use?

[Jean-Christophe Helary]

Rafaella,

On 17 juin 10, at 21:49, Rafaella Braconi wrote:

> Hi Sophie,
>> 
>> Is it planed to migrate OpenOffice.org glossaries from SunGloss to OpenCTI?
> no. There are no plans to migrate OOo glossaries from SunGloss to OpenCTI.

On January 27, Reiko sent a mail in Japanese to a number of lists with the 
following title:

> Date: 27 janvier 2010 10:48:45 UTC+09:00
> To: undisclosed-recipients: ;
> Subject: [ja-translate] SunGloss migration

I translated that mail for the French lists.

It was indicated in the mail that SunGloss was going to be read-only from 
January 31st and that the glossaries would be available from the Terminology 
tab in OpenCTI.

What is the status of the migration Reiko mentioned ?


Jean-Christophe Helary

fun: http://mac4translators.blogspot.com
work: http://www.doublet.jp (ja/en > fr)
tweets: http://twitter.com/brandelune


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Re: [l10n-dev] OpenCTI use?

[Rafaella Braconi]

Hi Sophie,


Is it planed to migrate OpenOffice.org glossaries from SunGloss to 
OpenCTI?

no. There are no plans to migrate OOo glossaries from SunGloss to OpenCTI.
If yes, do you have a time frame of when it'll be done? I would like 
to maintain the French glossary and I have already several terms to 
add from the former versions.
You are raising a very good topic - terminology management for OOo. I 
think that this is a good time to start gathering the requirements. What 
would you expect from a terminology tool? What are the key functions? Is 
this something that is already covered by the Pootle Terminology 
function? Is this something that can be set up in the OOo wiki system?


Thanks,
Rafaella


Thanks in advance
Kind regards
Sophie

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--
Rafaella Braconi
Program Manager
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Phone: +49-40-23646-0
Email: rafaella.brac...@sun.com

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[l10n-dev] OpenCTI use?

[Sophie]

Hi Rafaella,

Is it planed to migrate OpenOffice.org glossaries from SunGloss to 
OpenCTI? If yes, do you have a time frame of when it'll be done? I would 
like to maintain the French glossary and I have already several terms to 
add from the former versions.


Thanks in advance
Kind regards
Sophie

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