Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
On 25 January 2017 at 17:57, Jacques Le Roux wrote: I guess you know that most of the spiders bots which are crawling the web are not doing for the good of websites and users. Better to prevent them to hurt in any way. OOTB the ecomseo webapp is better than the ecommerce on this aspect. Le 25/01/2017 à 03:56, Paul Foxworthy a écrit : > >> Are you saying that there are more differences between ecommerce and >> ecomseo than just the format of the URLs, and that those other differences >> lead to a security flaw in ecommerce? If that is right, shouldn't the flaw >> be fixed in its own right, as a separate issue from the exact format of >> URLs? >> >> Hi Paul, > > No it's not a security flaw, just that spiders will do a better job using > ecomseo and there are other features. > Hi Jacques, Can you outline what features are in ecomseo and not ecommerce? Are the features of ecomseo a superset of those of ecommerce, or are there some things in ecommerce but not ecomseo? If there isn't a security flaw, what does ecomseo prevent? I sincerely do want to understand the issues here, and I don't intend to criticise anyone. Thanks Paul Foxworthy -- Coherent Software Australia Pty Ltd PO Box 2773 Cheltenham Vic 3192 Australia Phone: +61 3 9585 6788 Web: http://www.coherentsoftware.com.au/ Email: i...@coherentsoftware.com.au
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
Was just a friendly information :) Le 25/01/2017 à 22:11, Michael Brohl a écrit : *sigh* That is completely off topic, Jacques... Am 25.01.17 um 20:48 schrieb Jacques Le Roux: Thanks Michael, Your message is stamped by the by the seal of reason BTW about stamping, Thunderbird tells me that your email certificate is invalid (was OK yesterday) Jacques Le 25/01/2017 à 15:58, Michael Brohl a écrit : Hi Jacques, inline... Am 25.01.17 um 10:04 schrieb Jacques Le Roux: You are right, it's time to start a new thread, this one is now too confusing. Jonathan (Schikowski) just told me he will answer us today. I'll wait his answer to start this new thread. It will not be only about demos since it seems we are ready to discuss of that again. It's a good approach to start with a fresh discussion and to collect the requirements. Starting from that, we should analyze what can be used from standard OFBiz to meet these requirements, what's been missing and what should be changed. I hope that Anil can help us there, he had a strong opinion in the discussions of https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312 We should also analyze the ecomseo approach and see what it adds to solve the requirements. The original contributors might be of help to explain why they have chosen this approach. I'm in favor to stay as objective as possible to get the best out of the contributions. A "my solution is better than yours" discussion does not help. We should also expect that it will take some time to collect and discuss everything and should not force it to a quick solution. That won't help either. And we must be focused leaving out sidenotes or widening the topic too far from the main topic. That will only lead to confusion and possibly end discussions without result. A wiki page might help to note and summarize the findings of the conceptual work and to give contributors an overview (instead of digging through a long email thread). Also I just stumbled upon this "Ecommerce Portal Enhancement" Rishi's message by chance http://markmail.org/message/i35qxjelze2x4sja. It shows there are interests in ecomseo and Rishi started with very useful elements I think and others added some also. It's an interesting discussion but we should not pull it into this topic (see above). Jacques Regards, Michael
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
*sigh* That is completely off topic, Jacques... Am 25.01.17 um 20:48 schrieb Jacques Le Roux: Thanks Michael, Your message is stamped by the by the seal of reason BTW about stamping, Thunderbird tells me that your email certificate is invalid (was OK yesterday) Jacques Le 25/01/2017 à 15:58, Michael Brohl a écrit : Hi Jacques, inline... Am 25.01.17 um 10:04 schrieb Jacques Le Roux: You are right, it's time to start a new thread, this one is now too confusing. Jonathan (Schikowski) just told me he will answer us today. I'll wait his answer to start this new thread. It will not be only about demos since it seems we are ready to discuss of that again. It's a good approach to start with a fresh discussion and to collect the requirements. Starting from that, we should analyze what can be used from standard OFBiz to meet these requirements, what's been missing and what should be changed. I hope that Anil can help us there, he had a strong opinion in the discussions of https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312 We should also analyze the ecomseo approach and see what it adds to solve the requirements. The original contributors might be of help to explain why they have chosen this approach. I'm in favor to stay as objective as possible to get the best out of the contributions. A "my solution is better than yours" discussion does not help. We should also expect that it will take some time to collect and discuss everything and should not force it to a quick solution. That won't help either. And we must be focused leaving out sidenotes or widening the topic too far from the main topic. That will only lead to confusion and possibly end discussions without result. A wiki page might help to note and summarize the findings of the conceptual work and to give contributors an overview (instead of digging through a long email thread). Also I just stumbled upon this "Ecommerce Portal Enhancement" Rishi's message by chance http://markmail.org/message/i35qxjelze2x4sja. It shows there are interests in ecomseo and Rishi started with very useful elements I think and others added some also. It's an interesting discussion but we should not pull it into this topic (see above). Jacques Regards, Michael smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
Thanks Michael, Your message is stamped by the by the seal of reason BTW about stamping, Thunderbird tells me that your email certificate is invalid (was OK yesterday) Jacques Le 25/01/2017 à 15:58, Michael Brohl a écrit : Hi Jacques, inline... Am 25.01.17 um 10:04 schrieb Jacques Le Roux: You are right, it's time to start a new thread, this one is now too confusing. Jonathan (Schikowski) just told me he will answer us today. I'll wait his answer to start this new thread. It will not be only about demos since it seems we are ready to discuss of that again. It's a good approach to start with a fresh discussion and to collect the requirements. Starting from that, we should analyze what can be used from standard OFBiz to meet these requirements, what's been missing and what should be changed. I hope that Anil can help us there, he had a strong opinion in the discussions of https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312 We should also analyze the ecomseo approach and see what it adds to solve the requirements. The original contributors might be of help to explain why they have chosen this approach. I'm in favor to stay as objective as possible to get the best out of the contributions. A "my solution is better than yours" discussion does not help. We should also expect that it will take some time to collect and discuss everything and should not force it to a quick solution. That won't help either. And we must be focused leaving out sidenotes or widening the topic too far from the main topic. That will only lead to confusion and possibly end discussions without result. A wiki page might help to note and summarize the findings of the conceptual work and to give contributors an overview (instead of digging through a long email thread). Also I just stumbled upon this "Ecommerce Portal Enhancement" Rishi's message by chance http://markmail.org/message/i35qxjelze2x4sja. It shows there are interests in ecomseo and Rishi started with very useful elements I think and others added some also. It's an interesting discussion but we should not pull it into this topic (see above). Jacques Regards, Michael
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
Hi Jacques, inline... Am 25.01.17 um 10:04 schrieb Jacques Le Roux: You are right, it's time to start a new thread, this one is now too confusing. Jonathan (Schikowski) just told me he will answer us today. I'll wait his answer to start this new thread. It will not be only about demos since it seems we are ready to discuss of that again. It's a good approach to start with a fresh discussion and to collect the requirements. Starting from that, we should analyze what can be used from standard OFBiz to meet these requirements, what's been missing and what should be changed. I hope that Anil can help us there, he had a strong opinion in the discussions of https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312 We should also analyze the ecomseo approach and see what it adds to solve the requirements. The original contributors might be of help to explain why they have chosen this approach. I'm in favor to stay as objective as possible to get the best out of the contributions. A "my solution is better than yours" discussion does not help. We should also expect that it will take some time to collect and discuss everything and should not force it to a quick solution. That won't help either. And we must be focused leaving out sidenotes or widening the topic too far from the main topic. That will only lead to confusion and possibly end discussions without result. A wiki page might help to note and summarize the findings of the conceptual work and to give contributors an overview (instead of digging through a long email thread). Also I just stumbled upon this "Ecommerce Portal Enhancement" Rishi's message by chance http://markmail.org/message/i35qxjelze2x4sja. It shows there are interests in ecomseo and Rishi started with very useful elements I think and others added some also. It's an interesting discussion but we should not pull it into this topic (see above). Jacques Regards, Michael smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
Le 25/01/2017 à 09:54, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit : On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 9:03 AM, Jacques Le Roux < jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote: Sorry, but some facts can't sometimes be avoided. Here I think they help others to better understand ecomseo history. Providing objective context information is useful; but some of your sentences didn't achieve that goal. Jacopo Right! Humans make errors :) Jacques
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
You are right, it's time to start a new thread, this one is now too confusing. Jonathan (Schikowski) just told me he will answer us today. I'll wait his answer to start this new thread. It will not be only about demos since it seems we are ready to discuss of that again. Also I just stumbled upon this "Ecommerce Portal Enhancement" Rishi's message by chance http://markmail.org/message/i35qxjelze2x4sja. It shows there are interests in ecomseo and Rishi started with very useful elements I think and others added some also. Jacques Le 25/01/2017 à 09:29, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit : Jacques I'm lost! The message we are discussing is how to handle the two ecommerce webapps, and you are going all over the place by talking about things like: - a historical argument about ecomseo - an OFBiz fork - community over code - human What does all of the above have to do with what we are discussing? On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Jacques Le Roux < jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote: Hi Taher, Le 25/01/2017 à 08:03, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit : Hi Jacques, I think you might be mixing up "multiple webapps" with "duplicate / entangled webapps" in your examples. Yes we probably have other things to get rid of, but I think we should avoid working in the direction of increasing the entanglements instead of fixing root causes. Sincerely I was really proud of myself when I thought about and implemented this solution (then temporary in my mind). When Anil kinda imposed a veto on ecomseo and I had no time to prove that we could still use the contents way with ecomseo. I still see it as something very clean which allows to easily compare the 2 solutions w/o any burden on the legacy. Anyway, my intention was then indeed to compare and argument to replace the ecommerce webapp by ecomseo (which would then be renamed ecommerce). It seems we are ready for that, are we? Also I don't see the point of bringing comments about a different discussion and references to a fork of OFBiz to this discussion and rant about it? Human, I'm an human not a robot. This remembers a joke we had with Andrew Sykes in the early days. A lot of the code we still rely on has been writing by Andrew Zenesky (you cleaned some of it). We were "wondering" if actually Andrew (Zenesky) was not actually a robot. Because of the speed he was writing code! See? Human, "Community over code"[1][2] :) Jacques [1] http://communityovercode.com/ [2] http://theapacheway.com/ On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux < jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote: This argument looks more like a witch hunt to me. If you both think it's a valid argument against ecomseo then what about accounting, ar and ap webapps in accounting component ofbizsetup and ordermgr-js webapps in commonext component content and contentimages in content component marketing and sfa in marketing component facility and catalog in product component ical and workeffort in workeffort component What are your plans for those? We might decide to change that but it's so far a feature not a bug. We dropped the ecomclone which was just showing how to reuse a webapp in another webapp. I agreed about dropping it because ecomseo was also showing the same feature. We can simply document it w/o showing an example in code. I would not be against but we then need to document it in both readme and wiki. Now I can also agree about unifying the ecommerce component and then we need to compare the 2 webapps which are very similar. Actually we "only" need to compare the filters and servlets in both and decide which are the best. I think, but have not tested, that you can use content in ecomseo has it was abruptly advocated by Hans[1] and Anil[2]. Else we can merge this feature from ecommerce to ecomseo filters and servlet. BTW, I don't see good practises in Hans's and Anil's answers and sorry to say but I think the best answer then was from the regretted Adrian[3] Since then ilscipio has its fork[4][5] and will not contribute anything anymore, well done experts! So you see there is some resentments about this. Yes, people worked hard to contribute it with some other main features like "Solr" OFBIZ-5042 But I think we can go ahead and find a common ground for the best or the project, which is only what I have in mind. Jacques [1] http://ofbiz.135035.n4.nabble.com/Proposal-URL-Generation-Ch anges-tp4639289p4639294.html [2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312?focusedComm entId=13939116&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issueta bpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-13939116 [3] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312?focusedComm entId=13942316&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issueta bpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-13942316 [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scipio_ERP [5] http://www.scipioerp.com/ Le 24/01/2017 à 21:24, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit : Small correction, I meant one component with two webapps On Jan 24, 2017 11:21 PM, "Taher Alkhateeb" definit
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 9:03 AM, Jacques Le Roux < jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote: > > Sorry, but some facts can't sometimes be avoided. Here I think they help > others to better understand ecomseo history. > Providing objective context information is useful; but some of your sentences didn't achieve that goal. Jacopo
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
Jacques I'm lost! The message we are discussing is how to handle the two ecommerce webapps, and you are going all over the place by talking about things like: - a historical argument about ecomseo - an OFBiz fork - community over code - human What does all of the above have to do with what we are discussing? On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Jacques Le Roux < jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote: > Hi Taher, > > Le 25/01/2017 à 08:03, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit : > >> Hi Jacques, >> >> I think you might be mixing up "multiple webapps" with "duplicate / >> entangled webapps" in your examples. Yes we probably have other things to >> get rid of, but I think we should avoid working in the direction of >> increasing the entanglements instead of fixing root causes. >> > > Sincerely I was really proud of myself when I thought about and > implemented this solution (then temporary in my mind). When Anil kinda > imposed a veto on ecomseo and I had no time to prove that we could still > use the contents way with ecomseo. > > I still see it as something very clean which allows to easily compare the > 2 solutions w/o any burden on the legacy. > > Anyway, my intention was then indeed to compare and argument to replace > the ecommerce webapp by ecomseo (which would then be renamed ecommerce). It > seems we are ready for that, are we? > > > Also I don't see the point of bringing comments about a different >> discussion and references to a fork of OFBiz to this discussion and rant >> about it? >> > > Human, I'm an human not a robot. > > This remembers a joke we had with Andrew Sykes in the early days. A lot of > the code we still rely on has been writing by Andrew Zenesky (you cleaned > some of it). We were "wondering" if actually Andrew (Zenesky) was not > actually a robot. Because of the speed he was writing code! > > See? Human, "Community over code"[1][2] :) > > Jacques > [1] http://communityovercode.com/ > [2] http://theapacheway.com/ > > > >> On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux < >> jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote: >> >> This argument looks more like a witch hunt to me. >>> >>> If you both think it's a valid argument against ecomseo then what about >>> >>> accounting, ar and ap webapps in accounting component >>> >>> ofbizsetup and ordermgr-js webapps in commonext component >>> >>> content and contentimages in content component >>> >>> marketing and sfa in marketing component >>> >>> facility and catalog in product component >>> >>> ical and workeffort in workeffort component >>> >>> What are your plans for those? We might decide to change that but it's so >>> far a feature not a bug. >>> >>> We dropped the ecomclone which was just showing how to reuse a webapp in >>> another webapp. I agreed about dropping it because ecomseo was also >>> showing >>> the same feature. We can simply document it w/o showing an example in >>> code. >>> I would not be against but we then need to document it in both readme and >>> wiki. >>> >>> Now I can also agree about unifying the ecommerce component and then we >>> need to compare the 2 webapps which are very similar. Actually we "only" >>> need to compare the filters and servlets in both and decide which are the >>> best. >>> >>> I think, but have not tested, that you can use content in ecomseo has it >>> was abruptly advocated by Hans[1] and Anil[2]. Else we can merge this >>> feature from ecommerce to ecomseo filters and servlet. >>> >>> BTW, I don't see good practises in Hans's and Anil's answers and sorry to >>> say but I think the best answer then was from the regretted Adrian[3] >>> >>> Since then ilscipio has its fork[4][5] and will not contribute anything >>> anymore, well done experts! >>> >>> So you see there is some resentments about this. >>> >>> Yes, people worked hard to contribute it with some other main features >>> like "Solr" OFBIZ-5042 >>> >>> But I think we can go ahead and find a common ground for the best or the >>> project, which is only what I have in mind. >>> >>> Jacques >>> [1] http://ofbiz.135035.n4.nabble.com/Proposal-URL-Generation-Ch >>> anges-tp4639289p4639294.html >>> [2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312?focusedComm >>> entId=13939116&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issueta >>> bpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-13939116 >>> [3] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312?focusedComm >>> entId=13942316&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issueta >>> bpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-13942316 >>> [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scipio_ERP >>> [5] http://www.scipioerp.com/ >>> >>> >>> Le 24/01/2017 à 21:24, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit : >>> >>> Small correction, I meant one component with two webapps On Jan 24, 2017 11:21 PM, "Taher Alkhateeb" >>> > wrote: I have to agree with Scott, the approach here is wrong in my opinion. My > definition of mess is simple: you should not have two components with > two > webapps. A real root solution is to unify the ecommerce componen
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
Hi Taher, Le 25/01/2017 à 08:03, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit : Hi Jacques, I think you might be mixing up "multiple webapps" with "duplicate / entangled webapps" in your examples. Yes we probably have other things to get rid of, but I think we should avoid working in the direction of increasing the entanglements instead of fixing root causes. Sincerely I was really proud of myself when I thought about and implemented this solution (then temporary in my mind). When Anil kinda imposed a veto on ecomseo and I had no time to prove that we could still use the contents way with ecomseo. I still see it as something very clean which allows to easily compare the 2 solutions w/o any burden on the legacy. Anyway, my intention was then indeed to compare and argument to replace the ecommerce webapp by ecomseo (which would then be renamed ecommerce). It seems we are ready for that, are we? Also I don't see the point of bringing comments about a different discussion and references to a fork of OFBiz to this discussion and rant about it? Human, I'm an human not a robot. This remembers a joke we had with Andrew Sykes in the early days. A lot of the code we still rely on has been writing by Andrew Zenesky (you cleaned some of it). We were "wondering" if actually Andrew (Zenesky) was not actually a robot. Because of the speed he was writing code! See? Human, "Community over code"[1][2] :) Jacques [1] http://communityovercode.com/ [2] http://theapacheway.com/ On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux < jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote: This argument looks more like a witch hunt to me. If you both think it's a valid argument against ecomseo then what about accounting, ar and ap webapps in accounting component ofbizsetup and ordermgr-js webapps in commonext component content and contentimages in content component marketing and sfa in marketing component facility and catalog in product component ical and workeffort in workeffort component What are your plans for those? We might decide to change that but it's so far a feature not a bug. We dropped the ecomclone which was just showing how to reuse a webapp in another webapp. I agreed about dropping it because ecomseo was also showing the same feature. We can simply document it w/o showing an example in code. I would not be against but we then need to document it in both readme and wiki. Now I can also agree about unifying the ecommerce component and then we need to compare the 2 webapps which are very similar. Actually we "only" need to compare the filters and servlets in both and decide which are the best. I think, but have not tested, that you can use content in ecomseo has it was abruptly advocated by Hans[1] and Anil[2]. Else we can merge this feature from ecommerce to ecomseo filters and servlet. BTW, I don't see good practises in Hans's and Anil's answers and sorry to say but I think the best answer then was from the regretted Adrian[3] Since then ilscipio has its fork[4][5] and will not contribute anything anymore, well done experts! So you see there is some resentments about this. Yes, people worked hard to contribute it with some other main features like "Solr" OFBIZ-5042 But I think we can go ahead and find a common ground for the best or the project, which is only what I have in mind. Jacques [1] http://ofbiz.135035.n4.nabble.com/Proposal-URL-Generation-Ch anges-tp4639289p4639294.html [2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312?focusedComm entId=13939116&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issueta bpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-13939116 [3] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312?focusedComm entId=13942316&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issueta bpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-13942316 [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scipio_ERP [5] http://www.scipioerp.com/ Le 24/01/2017 à 21:24, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit : Small correction, I meant one component with two webapps On Jan 24, 2017 11:21 PM, "Taher Alkhateeb" wrote: I have to agree with Scott, the approach here is wrong in my opinion. My definition of mess is simple: you should not have two components with two webapps. A real root solution is to unify the ecommerce component with one webapp exposed instead of having all this hairy code and interdependencies. I also think this should be discussed more rather than just committed without a thorough review. On Jan 24, 2017 11:12 PM, "Jacques Le Roux" < jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote: Inline... Le 24/09/2016 à 06:20, Scott Gray a écrit : You're asking for opinions and I can't give one without any knowledge of this feature so I'm simply telling you that the lack of documentation is a hindrance to evaluation and adoption. I took a quick look at SeoConfig.xml and have no idea what most of it does. You don't need to change SeoConfig.xml by default. It seems to me that the comment there are not worse, and even better, than you generally find in such config or properties files in OFB
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
Thanks Jacopo, Sorry, but some facts can't sometimes be avoided. Here I think they help others to better understand ecomseo history. But you are right, better to focus on going ahead together. For instance I really appreciate Paul's (Foxworthy) last answer on OFBIZ-5312 https://s.apache.org/fN7R, that's productive! Jacques Le 25/01/2017 à 08:23, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit : Hi Jacques, please see inline: On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 7:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux < jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote: This argument looks more like a witch hunt to me. [...] BTW, I don't see good practises in Hans's and Anil's answers [...] Since then ilscipio has its fork[4][5] and will not contribute anything anymore, well done experts! [...] So you see there is some resentments about this. [...] I have extracted some the sentences above from your message because I think they are a bad example of dealing with disagreement: they do not add any useful technical content and are going to raise the temperature of the thread and maybe resurrect an years old and ugly discussion. Not useful at all. On the other hand: Now I can also agree about unifying the ecommerce component and then we need to compare the 2 webapps which are very similar. Actually we "only" need to compare the filters and servlets in both and decide which are the best. [...] But I think we can go ahead and find a common ground for the best or the project, which is only what I have in mind. with the two sentences above you have provided a good summary of what I consider a positive and productive output of this discussion and also a message that shows a positive attitude. My advice, for you and others interested in this thread, is to focus on the latter and refrain from commenting on the former. Jacopo
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
Hi Jacques, please see inline: On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 7:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux < jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote: > This argument looks more like a witch hunt to me. > [...] > BTW, I don't see good practises in Hans's and Anil's answers > [...] > Since then ilscipio has its fork[4][5] and will not contribute anything > anymore, well done experts! > [...] > So you see there is some resentments about this. > [...] I have extracted some the sentences above from your message because I think they are a bad example of dealing with disagreement: they do not add any useful technical content and are going to raise the temperature of the thread and maybe resurrect an years old and ugly discussion. Not useful at all. On the other hand: > Now I can also agree about unifying the ecommerce component and then we > need to compare the 2 webapps which are very similar. Actually we "only" > need to compare the filters and servlets in both and decide which are the > best. [...] But I think we can go ahead and find a common ground for the best or > the project, which is only what I have in mind. with the two sentences above you have provided a good summary of what I consider a positive and productive output of this discussion and also a message that shows a positive attitude. My advice, for you and others interested in this thread, is to focus on the latter and refrain from commenting on the former. Jacopo
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
Hi Jacques, I think you might be mixing up "multiple webapps" with "duplicate / entangled webapps" in your examples. Yes we probably have other things to get rid of, but I think we should avoid working in the direction of increasing the entanglements instead of fixing root causes. Also I don't see the point of bringing comments about a different discussion and references to a fork of OFBiz to this discussion and rant about it? On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux < jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote: > This argument looks more like a witch hunt to me. > > If you both think it's a valid argument against ecomseo then what about > > accounting, ar and ap webapps in accounting component > > ofbizsetup and ordermgr-js webapps in commonext component > > content and contentimages in content component > > marketing and sfa in marketing component > > facility and catalog in product component > > ical and workeffort in workeffort component > > What are your plans for those? We might decide to change that but it's so > far a feature not a bug. > > We dropped the ecomclone which was just showing how to reuse a webapp in > another webapp. I agreed about dropping it because ecomseo was also showing > the same feature. We can simply document it w/o showing an example in code. > I would not be against but we then need to document it in both readme and > wiki. > > Now I can also agree about unifying the ecommerce component and then we > need to compare the 2 webapps which are very similar. Actually we "only" > need to compare the filters and servlets in both and decide which are the > best. > > I think, but have not tested, that you can use content in ecomseo has it > was abruptly advocated by Hans[1] and Anil[2]. Else we can merge this > feature from ecommerce to ecomseo filters and servlet. > > BTW, I don't see good practises in Hans's and Anil's answers and sorry to > say but I think the best answer then was from the regretted Adrian[3] > > Since then ilscipio has its fork[4][5] and will not contribute anything > anymore, well done experts! > > So you see there is some resentments about this. > > Yes, people worked hard to contribute it with some other main features > like "Solr" OFBIZ-5042 > > But I think we can go ahead and find a common ground for the best or the > project, which is only what I have in mind. > > Jacques > [1] http://ofbiz.135035.n4.nabble.com/Proposal-URL-Generation-Ch > anges-tp4639289p4639294.html > [2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312?focusedComm > entId=13939116&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issueta > bpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-13939116 > [3] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312?focusedComm > entId=13942316&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issueta > bpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-13942316 > [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scipio_ERP > [5] http://www.scipioerp.com/ > > > Le 24/01/2017 à 21:24, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit : > >> Small correction, I meant one component with two webapps >> >> On Jan 24, 2017 11:21 PM, "Taher Alkhateeb" >> wrote: >> >> I have to agree with Scott, the approach here is wrong in my opinion. My >>> definition of mess is simple: you should not have two components with two >>> webapps. A real root solution is to unify the ecommerce component with >>> one >>> webapp exposed instead of having all this hairy code and >>> interdependencies. >>> I also think this should be discussed more rather than just committed >>> without a thorough review. >>> >>> On Jan 24, 2017 11:12 PM, "Jacques Le Roux" < >>> jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Inline... Le 24/09/2016 à 06:20, Scott Gray a écrit : You're asking for opinions and I can't give one without any knowledge of > this feature so I'm simply telling you that the lack of documentation > is > a > hindrance to evaluation and adoption. I took a quick look at > SeoConfig.xml > and have no idea what most of it does. > > You don't need to change SeoConfig.xml by default. It seems to me that the comment there are not worse, and even better, than you generally find in such config or properties files in OFBiz Would you not like to have spiders bots continuously crawling it without > any risk? > > I don't understand this question. > > I guess you know that most of the spiders bots which are crawling the web are not doing for the good of websites and users. Better to prevent them to hurt in any way. OOTB the ecomseo webapp is better than the ecommerce on this aspect. And it's also better with and for valuable crawlers (Google, DuckDuckGo, youNameIt...). Pour demo instances and OFBiz OOTB at large would benefit from using only ecomseo. Replacing ecommerce by ecomseo is another matter, another step I'd say. > It should have been the first step before any of this was committed but > instead you pushed ahead and com
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
Le 25/01/2017 à 03:56, Paul Foxworthy a écrit : On 25 January 2017 at 07:12, Jacques Le Roux wrote: I guess you know that most of the spiders bots which are crawling the web are not doing for the good of websites and users. Better to prevent them to hurt in any way. OOTB the ecomseo webapp is better than the ecommerce on this aspect. Are you saying that there are more differences between ecommerce and ecomseo than just the format of the URLs, and that those other differences lead to a security flaw in ecommerce? If that is right, shouldn't the flaw be fixed in its own right, as a separate issue from the exact format of URLs? Thanks Paul Hi Paul, No it's not a security flaw, just that spiders will do a better job using ecomseo and there are other features. I have asked Jonathan Schikowski on Tweeter https://twitter.com/schikowski?lang=fr who is the SEO expert I referred too if he can help me explain details I'll also start a thread here Jacque
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
Thanks Jinghai! Happy you referred to Jonathan, I was then just asking him some help here :) Jacques Le 25/01/2017 à 02:30, Shi Jinghai a écrit : +1. SEO is very important for ecommerce websites. When I implemented it, Jonathan Schikowski offered me many principles of SEO, it's not a function only, it's more a protocol OFBiz talks with a search engine. I think setting ecomseo as default entrance of ecommerce will more users know OFBiz has SEO OOTB, and we are easy to get more inputs on how to improve it. -邮件原件- 发件人: Jacques Le Roux [mailto:jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com] 发送时间: 2017年1月25日 1:57 收件人: dev@ofbiz.apache.org 主题: Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce I'm all for that. Using ecomseo instead of ecommerce, I mean. But when I proposed so, Anil refused and I went with this solution. For details see https://s.apache.org/UVqw Actually as a diff between the 2 web.xml files shows there are also a bunch of other changes with the new filters and servlets, but yes that's pretty much it. Sincerely, it was "some" work to come to this accommodation as OFBIZ-5312 history shows. From the ilscipio team which Paul represent, Jinghai and I. I also thanks Sebastian, Ingo and Josip, who helped in initial tests. Jacques Le 22/01/2017 à 23:03, Scott Gray a écrit : If there was a change to be made, it should have been to work on moving ecomseo into ecommerce. There's not really any good reason for both of them to exist when the only differences between the webapps are the web.xml files. Regards Scott On 23 January 2017 at 10:44, Jacques Le Roux wrote: OK, I'll answer your questions step by step. I just need time... Jacques Le 22/01/2017 à 22:01, Scott Gray a écrit : 1. Ask for input 2. Get no responses except a -1 3. Wait for a few months 4. Proceed anyway without further discussion In future it might be quicker to just skip step 1. Regards Scott On 23 January 2017 at 02:06, Jacques Le Roux < jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote: Done, I have added links for developers Jacques Le 18/01/2017 à 09:45, Jacques Le Roux a écrit : I have done the change for R16.11. BTW, trunk demo has no official link, should we not add one (not official?) somewhere in the site or the wiki? Jacques Le 22/09/2016 à 14:07, Jacques Le Roux a écrit : Le 22/09/2016 à 13:22, Scott Gray a écrit : This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well So does it need battle testing or does it work well? It works well for me. Have you deployed it to any production instances? Not directly, that's why I want it as default OFBiz demo Has anyone else? At least https://www.buchhandel.de/ https://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2 I guess you can find more starting from OFBIZ-5312 Jacques Regards Scott On 19 September 2016 at 01:27, Jacques Le Roux < jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com wrote: Hi, Maybe you don't know about or did not try it, but we have ecomseo a clone of the ecommerce component tailored for SEO https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Search+ Engine+Optimisation,+SEO+in+ecommerce I propose to use it as the default ecommerce demo. This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well. As it's based on ecommerce, users should not experience a big changes, apart the changed URLs What do you think? Jacques
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
This argument looks more like a witch hunt to me. If you both think it's a valid argument against ecomseo then what about accounting, ar and ap webapps in accounting component ofbizsetup and ordermgr-js webapps in commonext component content and contentimages in content component marketing and sfa in marketing component facility and catalog in product component ical and workeffort in workeffort component What are your plans for those? We might decide to change that but it's so far a feature not a bug. We dropped the ecomclone which was just showing how to reuse a webapp in another webapp. I agreed about dropping it because ecomseo was also showing the same feature. We can simply document it w/o showing an example in code. I would not be against but we then need to document it in both readme and wiki. Now I can also agree about unifying the ecommerce component and then we need to compare the 2 webapps which are very similar. Actually we "only" need to compare the filters and servlets in both and decide which are the best. I think, but have not tested, that you can use content in ecomseo has it was abruptly advocated by Hans[1] and Anil[2]. Else we can merge this feature from ecommerce to ecomseo filters and servlet. BTW, I don't see good practises in Hans's and Anil's answers and sorry to say but I think the best answer then was from the regretted Adrian[3] Since then ilscipio has its fork[4][5] and will not contribute anything anymore, well done experts! So you see there is some resentments about this. Yes, people worked hard to contribute it with some other main features like "Solr" OFBIZ-5042 But I think we can go ahead and find a common ground for the best or the project, which is only what I have in mind. Jacques [1] http://ofbiz.135035.n4.nabble.com/Proposal-URL-Generation-Changes-tp4639289p4639294.html [2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312?focusedCommentId=13939116&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-13939116 [3] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312?focusedCommentId=13942316&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-13942316 [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scipio_ERP [5] http://www.scipioerp.com/ Le 24/01/2017 à 21:24, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit : Small correction, I meant one component with two webapps On Jan 24, 2017 11:21 PM, "Taher Alkhateeb" wrote: I have to agree with Scott, the approach here is wrong in my opinion. My definition of mess is simple: you should not have two components with two webapps. A real root solution is to unify the ecommerce component with one webapp exposed instead of having all this hairy code and interdependencies. I also think this should be discussed more rather than just committed without a thorough review. On Jan 24, 2017 11:12 PM, "Jacques Le Roux" wrote: Inline... Le 24/09/2016 à 06:20, Scott Gray a écrit : You're asking for opinions and I can't give one without any knowledge of this feature so I'm simply telling you that the lack of documentation is a hindrance to evaluation and adoption. I took a quick look at SeoConfig.xml and have no idea what most of it does. You don't need to change SeoConfig.xml by default. It seems to me that the comment there are not worse, and even better, than you generally find in such config or properties files in OFBiz Would you not like to have spiders bots continuously crawling it without any risk? I don't understand this question. I guess you know that most of the spiders bots which are crawling the web are not doing for the good of websites and users. Better to prevent them to hurt in any way. OOTB the ecomseo webapp is better than the ecommerce on this aspect. And it's also better with and for valuable crawlers (Google, DuckDuckGo, youNameIt...). Pour demo instances and OFBiz OOTB at large would benefit from using only ecomseo. Replacing ecommerce by ecomseo is another matter, another step I'd say. It should have been the first step before any of this was committed but instead you pushed ahead and committed it as an alternative despite objections so now we have duplicated functionality and a messier codebase. Though I did not test it I don't think it prevents to use the content component in anyway as feared Hans and Anil. I just put it besides to end the discussion then, having other stuff to do... What makes you think we have a messier codebase? I was going to list out the current set of possible SEO approaches that now exist in the codebase but it's all such an overlapping mess I can't make sense of it without spending too much time trying to figure it out. Yes, I agree we need to document that better, starting from OFBIZ-5312 content People need to stop adding things they can't get consensus on, IMO the mess that results is worse for the project than any missing feature. I'll never understand why some committers are so desperate to see something committed
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
Michael, Le 24/01/2017 à 22:21, Michael Brohl a écrit : Jacques, I must say that I don't like this action. I have re-read the discussion you had with Scott about this subject and also briefly read the discussions in https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312 (huge!). There were strong objections against this change. I must say the discussion in OFBIZ-5312 was not done very well on both sides in OFBIZ-5312. There were only standpoints and few attempts to really explain the functionality (existing vs. new) and lacks a documentation of what is changed and why. I also had the expression that there were several developers trying to stitch together artifacts from other projects, see mainly Oct. 2013. Despite Scott's objections against the use of ecomseo as the default ecommerce app and also no other voices to second your proposal, you changed the default. I cannot see why you asked for opinions and then act against the only opinion you get after a while? After some months, I simply forgot Scott's answer a got ahead, human error. There was no reason to force this. Nothing was broken and there were also no voices who strongly wanted the change in the last months, if I recall correctly. The only thing you achieve might be confusing users who experience an ecommerce demo with different behaviour regarding URLs. Did you try it? I believe users would prefer ecomseo against ecommerce/control/main, etc. I second Scott's approach to take the time to thoroughly analyze the different URL generation/"SEO" approaches in both implementations and merge them in a best-of-breed solution. That requires hard work in understanding everything and might take a while. I also can agree on this Additionally, we should first have a catalogue of substantiated requirements and match them against these implementations. Looking forward for help from the community You mentioned that there was work done with the consultation of a SEO expert. It would be great if he could give input about the requirements on which the ecomseo implementation was done. I'll ask him I propose to revert this change and start over with the above mentioned steps first before anything is changed again. Done for R16.11, I kept the trunk since I just added it and it's a good way to compare with stable Jacques Best regards, Michael Am 18.01.17 um 09:45 schrieb Jacques Le Roux: I have done the change for R16.11. BTW, trunk demo has no official link, should we not add one (not official?) somewhere in the site or the wiki? Jacques Le 22/09/2016 à 14:07, Jacques Le Roux a écrit : Le 22/09/2016 à 13:22, Scott Gray a écrit : This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well So does it need battle testing or does it work well? It works well for me. Have you deployed it to any production instances? Not directly, that's why I want it as default OFBiz demo Has anyone else? At least https://www.buchhandel.de/ https://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2 I guess you can find more starting from OFBIZ-5312 Jacques Regards Scott On 19 September 2016 at 01:27, Jacques Le Roux wrote: Hi, Maybe you don't know about or did not try it, but we have ecomseo a clone of the ecommerce component tailored for SEO https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Search+ Engine+Optimisation,+SEO+in+ecommerce I propose to use it as the default ecommerce demo. This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well. As it's based on ecommerce, users should not experience a big changes, apart the changed URLs What do you think? Jacques
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
On 25 January 2017 at 07:12, Jacques Le Roux wrote: > I guess you know that most of the spiders bots which are crawling the web > are not doing for the good of websites and users. Better to prevent them to > hurt in any way. OOTB the ecomseo webapp is better than the ecommerce on > this aspect. > Are you saying that there are more differences between ecommerce and ecomseo than just the format of the URLs, and that those other differences lead to a security flaw in ecommerce? If that is right, shouldn't the flaw be fixed in its own right, as a separate issue from the exact format of URLs? Thanks Paul -- Coherent Software Australia Pty Ltd PO Box 2773 Cheltenham Vic 3192 Australia Phone: +61 3 9585 6788 Web: http://www.coherentsoftware.com.au/ Email: i...@coherentsoftware.com.au
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
+1. SEO is very important for ecommerce websites. When I implemented it, Jonathan Schikowski offered me many principles of SEO, it's not a function only, it's more a protocol OFBiz talks with a search engine. I think setting ecomseo as default entrance of ecommerce will more users know OFBiz has SEO OOTB, and we are easy to get more inputs on how to improve it. -邮件原件- 发件人: Jacques Le Roux [mailto:jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com] 发送时间: 2017年1月25日 1:57 收件人: dev@ofbiz.apache.org 主题: Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce I'm all for that. Using ecomseo instead of ecommerce, I mean. But when I proposed so, Anil refused and I went with this solution. For details see https://s.apache.org/UVqw Actually as a diff between the 2 web.xml files shows there are also a bunch of other changes with the new filters and servlets, but yes that's pretty much it. Sincerely, it was "some" work to come to this accommodation as OFBIZ-5312 history shows. From the ilscipio team which Paul represent, Jinghai and I. I also thanks Sebastian, Ingo and Josip, who helped in initial tests. Jacques Le 22/01/2017 à 23:03, Scott Gray a écrit : > If there was a change to be made, it should have been to work on > moving ecomseo into ecommerce. There's not really any good reason for > both of them to exist when the only differences between the webapps > are the web.xml files. > > Regards > Scott > > On 23 January 2017 at 10:44, Jacques Le Roux > > wrote: > >> OK, I'll answer your questions step by step. I just need time... >> >> Jacques >> >> >> Le 22/01/2017 à 22:01, Scott Gray a écrit : >> >>> 1. Ask for input >>> 2. Get no responses except a -1 >>> 3. Wait for a few months >>> 4. Proceed anyway without further discussion >>> >>> In future it might be quicker to just skip step 1. >>> >>> Regards >>> Scott >>> >>> On 23 January 2017 at 02:06, Jacques Le Roux < >>> jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Done, I have added links for developers >>>> Jacques >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Le 18/01/2017 à 09:45, Jacques Le Roux a écrit : >>>> >>>> I have done the change for R16.11. >>>>> BTW, trunk demo has no official link, should we not add one (not >>>>> official?) somewhere in the site or the wiki? >>>>> >>>>> Jacques >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Le 22/09/2016 à 14:07, Jacques Le Roux a écrit : >>>>> >>>>> Le 22/09/2016 à 13:22, Scott Gray a écrit : >>>>>> This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works >>>>>> well >>>>>>> So does it need battle testing or does it work well? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It works well for me. >>>>>> Have you deployed it to any production instances? >>>>>>> Not directly, that's why I want it as default OFBiz demo >>>>>> Has anyone else? >>>>>>> At least >>>>>> https://www.buchhandel.de/ >>>>>> https://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2 >>>>>> I guess you can find more starting from OFBIZ-5312 >>>>>> >>>>>> Jacques >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards >>>>>>> Scott >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 19 September 2016 at 01:27, Jacques Le Roux < >>>>>>> jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Maybe you don't know about or did not try it, but we have >>>>>>>> ecomseo a clone of the ecommerce component tailored for SEO >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Search+ >>>>>>>> Engine+Optimisation,+SEO+in+ecommerce >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I propose to use it as the default ecommerce demo. This mostly >>>>>>>> to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As it's based on ecommerce, users should not experience a big >>>>>>>> changes, apart the changed URLs >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What do you think? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jacques >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
Jacques, I must say that I don't like this action. I have re-read the discussion you had with Scott about this subject and also briefly read the discussions in https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312 (huge!). There were strong objections against this change. I must say the discussion in OFBIZ-5312 was not done very well on both sides in OFBIZ-5312. There were only standpoints and few attempts to really explain the functionality (existing vs. new) and lacks a documentation of what is changed and why. I also had the expression that there were several developers trying to stitch together artifacts from other projects, see mainly Oct. 2013. Despite Scott's objections against the use of ecomseo as the default ecommerce app and also no other voices to second your proposal, you changed the default. I cannot see why you asked for opinions and then act against the only opinion you get after a while? There was no reason to force this. Nothing was broken and there were also no voices who strongly wanted the change in the last months, if I recall correctly. The only thing you achieve might be confusing users who experience an ecommerce demo with different behaviour regarding URLs. I second Scott's approach to take the time to thoroughly analyze the different URL generation/"SEO" approaches in both implementations and merge them in a best-of-breed solution. That requires hard work in understanding everything and might take a while. Additionally, we should first have a catalogue of substantiated requirements and match them against these implementations. You mentioned that there was work done with the consultation of a SEO expert. It would be great if he could give input about the requirements on which the ecomseo implementation was done. I propose to revert this change and start over with the above mentioned steps first before anything is changed again. Best regards, Michael Am 18.01.17 um 09:45 schrieb Jacques Le Roux: I have done the change for R16.11. BTW, trunk demo has no official link, should we not add one (not official?) somewhere in the site or the wiki? Jacques Le 22/09/2016 à 14:07, Jacques Le Roux a écrit : Le 22/09/2016 à 13:22, Scott Gray a écrit : This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well So does it need battle testing or does it work well? It works well for me. Have you deployed it to any production instances? Not directly, that's why I want it as default OFBiz demo Has anyone else? At least https://www.buchhandel.de/ https://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2 I guess you can find more starting from OFBIZ-5312 Jacques Regards Scott On 19 September 2016 at 01:27, Jacques Le Roux wrote: Hi, Maybe you don't know about or did not try it, but we have ecomseo a clone of the ecommerce component tailored for SEO https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Search+ Engine+Optimisation,+SEO+in+ecommerce I propose to use it as the default ecommerce demo. This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well. As it's based on ecommerce, users should not experience a big changes, apart the changed URLs What do you think? Jacques smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
Small correction, I meant one component with two webapps On Jan 24, 2017 11:21 PM, "Taher Alkhateeb" wrote: > I have to agree with Scott, the approach here is wrong in my opinion. My > definition of mess is simple: you should not have two components with two > webapps. A real root solution is to unify the ecommerce component with one > webapp exposed instead of having all this hairy code and interdependencies. > I also think this should be discussed more rather than just committed > without a thorough review. > > On Jan 24, 2017 11:12 PM, "Jacques Le Roux" > wrote: > >> Inline... >> >> Le 24/09/2016 à 06:20, Scott Gray a écrit : >> >>> You're asking for opinions and I can't give one without any knowledge of >>> this feature so I'm simply telling you that the lack of documentation is >>> a >>> hindrance to evaluation and adoption. I took a quick look at >>> SeoConfig.xml >>> and have no idea what most of it does. >>> >> You don't need to change SeoConfig.xml by default. >> It seems to me that the comment there are not worse, and even better, >> than you generally find in such config or properties files in OFBiz >> >>> >>> Would you not like to have spiders bots continuously crawling it without >>> any risk? >>> >>> I don't understand this question. >>> >> >> I guess you know that most of the spiders bots which are crawling the web >> are not doing for the good of websites and users. Better to prevent them to >> hurt in any way. OOTB the ecomseo webapp is better than the ecommerce on >> this aspect. And it's also better with and for valuable crawlers (Google, >> DuckDuckGo, youNameIt...). Pour demo instances and OFBiz OOTB at large >> would benefit from using only ecomseo. >> >> >>> Replacing ecommerce by ecomseo is another matter, another step I'd say. >>> It should have been the first step before any of this was committed but >>> instead you pushed ahead and committed it as an alternative despite >>> objections so now we have duplicated functionality and a messier >>> codebase. >>> >> >> Though I did not test it I don't think it prevents to use the content >> component in anyway as feared Hans and Anil. I just put it besides to end >> the discussion then, having other stuff to do... >> >> What makes you think we have a messier codebase? >> >> I was going to list out the current set of possible SEO approaches that >>> now >>> exist in the codebase but it's all such an overlapping mess I can't make >>> sense of it without spending too much time trying to figure it out. >>> >> >> Yes, I agree we need to document that better, starting from OFBIZ-5312 >> content >> >> People need to stop adding things they can't get consensus on, IMO the >>> mess >>> that results is worse for the project than any missing feature. I'll >>> never >>> understand why some committers are so desperate to see something >>> committed >>> that they'll push forward at any cost. Not every feature has to start >>> it's >>> life in the OFBiz repo. >>> >> >> I wanted this committed because it's ecommerce webapp improved. I did it >> a way that did not hurt the legacy situation. It just offered an >> alternative. For me it's a better solution. >> >> >>> And I'm surprised that you prefer to have "/control/" in each URL by >>> default :/ >>> >>> That is not the deciding factor in this discussion for me. I'm against >>> any >>> change to the status quo until we get this mess cleaned up. >>> >> >> I'd like you to define what the mess is and how you would want to clean >> it. >> >> Thanks >> >> Jacques >> >> >>> Regards >>> Scott >>> >>> >>> On 23 September 2016 at 20:34, Jacques Le Roux < >>> jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com >>> wrote: Hi Scott, Of course there are real world users, did you see the references? Do we have a such document for ecommerce? No, so It's not a good argument to not switch the demo from ecommerce to ecomseo. Would you not like to have spiders bots continuously crawling it without any risk? Replacing ecommerce by ecomseo is another matter, another step I'd say. And I'm surprised that you prefer to have "/control/" in each URL by default :/ Compare https://ofbiz-vm.apache.org:8443/ecomseo with https://ofbiz-vm.apache.org:8443/ecommerce/control/main Jacques Le 23/09/2016 à 01:15, Scott Gray a écrit : Well for me it's a -1 until I hear some positive reviews from other > users > (and ideally committers). I don't like having two ecommerce webapps > and > my > preference would be to merge the two into one, but I can't promote that > idea without any group consensus that the SEO approach is good and well > architected. A document describing the architecture would make that > much > easier and I'm amazed one wasn't supplied with the proposal, no wonder > it > sat there without much attention for so long. But since one doesn't > ex
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
I have to agree with Scott, the approach here is wrong in my opinion. My definition of mess is simple: you should not have two components with two webapps. A real root solution is to unify the ecommerce component with one webapp exposed instead of having all this hairy code and interdependencies. I also think this should be discussed more rather than just committed without a thorough review. On Jan 24, 2017 11:12 PM, "Jacques Le Roux" wrote: > Inline... > > Le 24/09/2016 à 06:20, Scott Gray a écrit : > >> You're asking for opinions and I can't give one without any knowledge of >> this feature so I'm simply telling you that the lack of documentation is a >> hindrance to evaluation and adoption. I took a quick look at SeoConfig.xml >> and have no idea what most of it does. >> > You don't need to change SeoConfig.xml by default. > It seems to me that the comment there are not worse, and even better, than > you generally find in such config or properties files in OFBiz > >> >> Would you not like to have spiders bots continuously crawling it without >>> >> any risk? >> >> I don't understand this question. >> > > I guess you know that most of the spiders bots which are crawling the web > are not doing for the good of websites and users. Better to prevent them to > hurt in any way. OOTB the ecomseo webapp is better than the ecommerce on > this aspect. And it's also better with and for valuable crawlers (Google, > DuckDuckGo, youNameIt...). Pour demo instances and OFBiz OOTB at large > would benefit from using only ecomseo. > > >> Replacing ecommerce by ecomseo is another matter, another step I'd say. >>> >> It should have been the first step before any of this was committed but >> instead you pushed ahead and committed it as an alternative despite >> objections so now we have duplicated functionality and a messier codebase. >> > > Though I did not test it I don't think it prevents to use the content > component in anyway as feared Hans and Anil. I just put it besides to end > the discussion then, having other stuff to do... > > What makes you think we have a messier codebase? > > I was going to list out the current set of possible SEO approaches that now >> exist in the codebase but it's all such an overlapping mess I can't make >> sense of it without spending too much time trying to figure it out. >> > > Yes, I agree we need to document that better, starting from OFBIZ-5312 > content > > People need to stop adding things they can't get consensus on, IMO the mess >> that results is worse for the project than any missing feature. I'll >> never >> understand why some committers are so desperate to see something committed >> that they'll push forward at any cost. Not every feature has to start >> it's >> life in the OFBiz repo. >> > > I wanted this committed because it's ecommerce webapp improved. I did it a > way that did not hurt the legacy situation. It just offered an alternative. > For me it's a better solution. > > >> And I'm surprised that you prefer to have "/control/" in each URL by >>> >> default :/ >> >> That is not the deciding factor in this discussion for me. I'm against >> any >> change to the status quo until we get this mess cleaned up. >> > > I'd like you to define what the mess is and how you would want to clean it. > > Thanks > > Jacques > > >> Regards >> Scott >> >> >> On 23 September 2016 at 20:34, Jacques Le Roux < >> jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com >> >>> wrote: >>> Hi Scott, >>> >>> Of course there are real world users, did you see the references? >>> >>> Do we have a such document for ecommerce? No, so It's not a good argument >>> to not switch the demo from ecommerce to ecomseo. Would you not like to >>> have spiders bots continuously crawling it without any risk? >>> >>> Replacing ecommerce by ecomseo is another matter, another step I'd say. >>> >>> And I'm surprised that you prefer to have "/control/" in each URL by >>> default :/ >>> >>> Compare >>> https://ofbiz-vm.apache.org:8443/ecomseo >>> with >>> https://ofbiz-vm.apache.org:8443/ecommerce/control/main >>> >>> Jacques >>> >>> >>> >>> Le 23/09/2016 à 01:15, Scott Gray a écrit : >>> >>> Well for me it's a -1 until I hear some positive reviews from other users (and ideally committers). I don't like having two ecommerce webapps and my preference would be to merge the two into one, but I can't promote that idea without any group consensus that the SEO approach is good and well architected. A document describing the architecture would make that much easier and I'm amazed one wasn't supplied with the proposal, no wonder it sat there without much attention for so long. But since one doesn't exist we'll just have to wait until people have time/care to review it and/or use it and provide feedback. Regards Scott On 23 September 2016 at 00:07, Jacques Le Roux < jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com wrote: > https://issues.apache.org/jira/
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
Inline... Le 24/09/2016 à 06:20, Scott Gray a écrit : You're asking for opinions and I can't give one without any knowledge of this feature so I'm simply telling you that the lack of documentation is a hindrance to evaluation and adoption. I took a quick look at SeoConfig.xml and have no idea what most of it does. You don't need to change SeoConfig.xml by default. It seems to me that the comment there are not worse, and even better, than you generally find in such config or properties files in OFBiz Would you not like to have spiders bots continuously crawling it without any risk? I don't understand this question. I guess you know that most of the spiders bots which are crawling the web are not doing for the good of websites and users. Better to prevent them to hurt in any way. OOTB the ecomseo webapp is better than the ecommerce on this aspect. And it's also better with and for valuable crawlers (Google, DuckDuckGo, youNameIt...). Pour demo instances and OFBiz OOTB at large would benefit from using only ecomseo. Replacing ecommerce by ecomseo is another matter, another step I'd say. It should have been the first step before any of this was committed but instead you pushed ahead and committed it as an alternative despite objections so now we have duplicated functionality and a messier codebase. Though I did not test it I don't think it prevents to use the content component in anyway as feared Hans and Anil. I just put it besides to end the discussion then, having other stuff to do... What makes you think we have a messier codebase? I was going to list out the current set of possible SEO approaches that now exist in the codebase but it's all such an overlapping mess I can't make sense of it without spending too much time trying to figure it out. Yes, I agree we need to document that better, starting from OFBIZ-5312 content People need to stop adding things they can't get consensus on, IMO the mess that results is worse for the project than any missing feature. I'll never understand why some committers are so desperate to see something committed that they'll push forward at any cost. Not every feature has to start it's life in the OFBiz repo. I wanted this committed because it's ecommerce webapp improved. I did it a way that did not hurt the legacy situation. It just offered an alternative. For me it's a better solution. And I'm surprised that you prefer to have "/control/" in each URL by default :/ That is not the deciding factor in this discussion for me. I'm against any change to the status quo until we get this mess cleaned up. I'd like you to define what the mess is and how you would want to clean it. Thanks Jacques Regards Scott On 23 September 2016 at 20:34, Jacques Le Roux wrote: Hi Scott, Of course there are real world users, did you see the references? Do we have a such document for ecommerce? No, so It's not a good argument to not switch the demo from ecommerce to ecomseo. Would you not like to have spiders bots continuously crawling it without any risk? Replacing ecommerce by ecomseo is another matter, another step I'd say. And I'm surprised that you prefer to have "/control/" in each URL by default :/ Compare https://ofbiz-vm.apache.org:8443/ecomseo with https://ofbiz-vm.apache.org:8443/ecommerce/control/main Jacques Le 23/09/2016 à 01:15, Scott Gray a écrit : Well for me it's a -1 until I hear some positive reviews from other users (and ideally committers). I don't like having two ecommerce webapps and my preference would be to merge the two into one, but I can't promote that idea without any group consensus that the SEO approach is good and well architected. A document describing the architecture would make that much easier and I'm amazed one wasn't supplied with the proposal, no wonder it sat there without much attention for so long. But since one doesn't exist we'll just have to wait until people have time/care to review it and/or use it and provide feedback. Regards Scott On 23 September 2016 at 00:07, Jacques Le Roux < jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com wrote: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312 More athttps://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2214?jql=project %20%3D%20OFBIZ%20AND%20text%20~%20%22seo%22 Jacques Le 22/09/2016 à 13:25, Scott Gray a écrit : By the way, is there any technical or user documentation for it? I haven't looked at it and don't have time to review the actual implementation right now. The link you provided doesn't offer much more than a sales pitch. Regards Scott On 22 September 2016 at 23:22, Scott Gray wrote: This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well So does it need battle testing or does it work well? Have you deployed it to any production instances? Has anyone else? Regards Scott On 19 September 2016 at 01:27, Jacques Le Roux < jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote: Hi, Maybe you don't know about or did not try it, but we have ecomseo a clo
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
Le 23/09/2016 à 01:15, Scott Gray a écrit : Well for me it's a -1 until I hear some positive reviews from other users (and ideally committers). I think Christian (G/eisert/ ) can tell you more about the buchhandel.de site. I don't like having two ecommerce webapps and my preference would be to merge the two into one, but I can't promote that idea without any group consensus that the SEO approach is good and well architected. A document describing the architecture would make that much easier and I'm amazed one wasn't supplied with the proposal, no wonder it sat there without much attention for so long. Actually the idea is quite simple: with the functional expertise of a SEO consultant replace OFBiz original ecommerce filters and servlet by SEO improved specific ones. But since one doesn't exist we'll just have to wait until people have time/care to review it and/or use it and provide feedback. I don't think we need to explain the architecture, it's the same than for the ecommerce webapp, just the filters and servlet have changed Jacques Regards Scott On 23 September 2016 at 00:07, Jacques Le Roux wrote: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312 More at https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2214?jql=project %20%3D%20OFBIZ%20AND%20text%20~%20%22seo%22 Jacques Le 22/09/2016 à 13:25, Scott Gray a écrit : By the way, is there any technical or user documentation for it? I haven't looked at it and don't have time to review the actual implementation right now. The link you provided doesn't offer much more than a sales pitch. Regards Scott On 22 September 2016 at 23:22, Scott Gray wrote: This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well So does it need battle testing or does it work well? Have you deployed it to any production instances? Has anyone else? Regards Scott On 19 September 2016 at 01:27, Jacques Le Roux < jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote: Hi, Maybe you don't know about or did not try it, but we have ecomseo a clone of the ecommerce component tailored for SEO https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Search+Eng ine+Optimisation,+SEO+in+ecommerce I propose to use it as the default ecommerce demo. This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well. As it's based on ecommerce, users should not experience a big changes, apart the changed URLs What do you think? Jacques
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
Scott, I did not answer clearly to this question (inline) Le 22/09/2016 à 13:22, Scott Gray a écrit : This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well So does it need battle testing or does it work well? Have you deployed it to any production instances? Has anyone else? I personally did not deploy it on a production instance. But I know others did when the patch was proposed and that's 2+ years ago. One of the sites I referred to in another thread is still successfully using this solution https://www.buchhandel.de/info/beta.html By battle test it I mean to use it on our official demo. Personally I no longer use the ecommerce webapp locally only ecomseo, without any specific issues Jacques Regards Scott On 19 September 2016 at 01:27, Jacques Le Roux wrote: Hi, Maybe you don't know about or did not try it, but we have ecomseo a clone of the ecommerce component tailored for SEO https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Search+ Engine+Optimisation,+SEO+in+ecommerce I propose to use it as the default ecommerce demo. This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well. As it's based on ecommerce, users should not experience a big changes, apart the changed URLs What do you think? Jacques
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
I'm all for that. Using ecomseo instead of ecommerce, I mean. But when I proposed so, Anil refused and I went with this solution. For details see https://s.apache.org/UVqw Actually as a diff between the 2 web.xml files shows there are also a bunch of other changes with the new filters and servlets, but yes that's pretty much it. Sincerely, it was "some" work to come to this accommodation as OFBIZ-5312 history shows. From the ilscipio team which Paul represent, Jinghai and I. I also thanks Sebastian, Ingo and Josip, who helped in initial tests. Jacques Le 22/01/2017 à 23:03, Scott Gray a écrit : If there was a change to be made, it should have been to work on moving ecomseo into ecommerce. There's not really any good reason for both of them to exist when the only differences between the webapps are the web.xml files. Regards Scott On 23 January 2017 at 10:44, Jacques Le Roux wrote: OK, I'll answer your questions step by step. I just need time... Jacques Le 22/01/2017 à 22:01, Scott Gray a écrit : 1. Ask for input 2. Get no responses except a -1 3. Wait for a few months 4. Proceed anyway without further discussion In future it might be quicker to just skip step 1. Regards Scott On 23 January 2017 at 02:06, Jacques Le Roux < jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote: Done, I have added links for developers Jacques Le 18/01/2017 à 09:45, Jacques Le Roux a écrit : I have done the change for R16.11. BTW, trunk demo has no official link, should we not add one (not official?) somewhere in the site or the wiki? Jacques Le 22/09/2016 à 14:07, Jacques Le Roux a écrit : Le 22/09/2016 à 13:22, Scott Gray a écrit : This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well So does it need battle testing or does it work well? It works well for me. Have you deployed it to any production instances? Not directly, that's why I want it as default OFBiz demo Has anyone else? At least https://www.buchhandel.de/ https://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2 I guess you can find more starting from OFBIZ-5312 Jacques Regards Scott On 19 September 2016 at 01:27, Jacques Le Roux < jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com wrote: Hi, Maybe you don't know about or did not try it, but we have ecomseo a clone of the ecommerce component tailored for SEO https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Search+ Engine+Optimisation,+SEO+in+ecommerce I propose to use it as the default ecommerce demo. This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well. As it's based on ecommerce, users should not experience a big changes, apart the changed URLs What do you think? Jacques
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
If there was a change to be made, it should have been to work on moving ecomseo into ecommerce. There's not really any good reason for both of them to exist when the only differences between the webapps are the web.xml files. Regards Scott On 23 January 2017 at 10:44, Jacques Le Roux wrote: > OK, I'll answer your questions step by step. I just need time... > > Jacques > > > Le 22/01/2017 à 22:01, Scott Gray a écrit : > >> 1. Ask for input >> 2. Get no responses except a -1 >> 3. Wait for a few months >> 4. Proceed anyway without further discussion >> >> In future it might be quicker to just skip step 1. >> >> Regards >> Scott >> >> On 23 January 2017 at 02:06, Jacques Le Roux < >> jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> >> wrote: >> >> Done, I have added links for developers >>> >>> Jacques >>> >>> >>> >>> Le 18/01/2017 à 09:45, Jacques Le Roux a écrit : >>> >>> I have done the change for R16.11. BTW, trunk demo has no official link, should we not add one (not official?) somewhere in the site or the wiki? Jacques Le 22/09/2016 à 14:07, Jacques Le Roux a écrit : Le 22/09/2016 à 13:22, Scott Gray a écrit : > > This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well >> So does it need battle testing or does it work well? >> >> It works well for me. > > Have you deployed it to any production instances? >> >> Not directly, that's why I want it as default OFBiz demo > > Has anyone else? >> >> At least > https://www.buchhandel.de/ > https://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2 > I guess you can find more starting from OFBIZ-5312 > > Jacques > > > Regards >> Scott >> >> On 19 September 2016 at 01:27, Jacques Le Roux < >> jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com >> >> wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> Maybe you don't know about or did not try it, but we have ecomseo a >>> clone >>> of the ecommerce component tailored for SEO >>> >>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Search+ >>> Engine+Optimisation,+SEO+in+ecommerce >>> >>> I propose to use it as the default ecommerce demo. This mostly to >>> somehow >>> battle test it, even if I know it works well. >>> >>> As it's based on ecommerce, users should not experience a big >>> changes, >>> apart the changed URLs >>> >>> What do you think? >>> >>> Jacques >>> >>> >>> >>> > >
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
OK, I'll answer your questions step by step. I just need time... Jacques Le 22/01/2017 à 22:01, Scott Gray a écrit : 1. Ask for input 2. Get no responses except a -1 3. Wait for a few months 4. Proceed anyway without further discussion In future it might be quicker to just skip step 1. Regards Scott On 23 January 2017 at 02:06, Jacques Le Roux wrote: Done, I have added links for developers Jacques Le 18/01/2017 à 09:45, Jacques Le Roux a écrit : I have done the change for R16.11. BTW, trunk demo has no official link, should we not add one (not official?) somewhere in the site or the wiki? Jacques Le 22/09/2016 à 14:07, Jacques Le Roux a écrit : Le 22/09/2016 à 13:22, Scott Gray a écrit : This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well So does it need battle testing or does it work well? It works well for me. Have you deployed it to any production instances? Not directly, that's why I want it as default OFBiz demo Has anyone else? At least https://www.buchhandel.de/ https://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2 I guess you can find more starting from OFBIZ-5312 Jacques Regards Scott On 19 September 2016 at 01:27, Jacques Le Roux < jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com wrote: Hi, Maybe you don't know about or did not try it, but we have ecomseo a clone of the ecommerce component tailored for SEO https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Search+ Engine+Optimisation,+SEO+in+ecommerce I propose to use it as the default ecommerce demo. This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well. As it's based on ecommerce, users should not experience a big changes, apart the changed URLs What do you think? Jacques
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
1. Ask for input 2. Get no responses except a -1 3. Wait for a few months 4. Proceed anyway without further discussion In future it might be quicker to just skip step 1. Regards Scott On 23 January 2017 at 02:06, Jacques Le Roux wrote: > Done, I have added links for developers > > Jacques > > > > Le 18/01/2017 à 09:45, Jacques Le Roux a écrit : > >> I have done the change for R16.11. >> >> BTW, trunk demo has no official link, should we not add one (not >> official?) somewhere in the site or the wiki? >> >> Jacques >> >> >> Le 22/09/2016 à 14:07, Jacques Le Roux a écrit : >> >>> Le 22/09/2016 à 13:22, Scott Gray a écrit : >>> This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well > So does it need battle testing or does it work well? >>> It works well for me. >>> Have you deployed it to any production instances? >>> Not directly, that's why I want it as default OFBiz demo >>> Has anyone else? >>> At least >>> https://www.buchhandel.de/ >>> https://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2 >>> I guess you can find more starting from OFBIZ-5312 >>> >>> Jacques >>> >>> Regards Scott On 19 September 2016 at 01:27, Jacques Le Roux < jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com > wrote: > Hi, > > Maybe you don't know about or did not try it, but we have ecomseo a > clone > of the ecommerce component tailored for SEO > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Search+ > Engine+Optimisation,+SEO+in+ecommerce > > I propose to use it as the default ecommerce demo. This mostly to > somehow > battle test it, even if I know it works well. > > As it's based on ecommerce, users should not experience a big changes, > apart the changed URLs > > What do you think? > > Jacques > > > >>> >>> >> >> >
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
Done, I have added links for developers Jacques Le 18/01/2017 à 09:45, Jacques Le Roux a écrit : I have done the change for R16.11. BTW, trunk demo has no official link, should we not add one (not official?) somewhere in the site or the wiki? Jacques Le 22/09/2016 à 14:07, Jacques Le Roux a écrit : Le 22/09/2016 à 13:22, Scott Gray a écrit : This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well So does it need battle testing or does it work well? It works well for me. Have you deployed it to any production instances? Not directly, that's why I want it as default OFBiz demo Has anyone else? At least https://www.buchhandel.de/ https://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2 I guess you can find more starting from OFBIZ-5312 Jacques Regards Scott On 19 September 2016 at 01:27, Jacques Le Roux wrote: Hi, Maybe you don't know about or did not try it, but we have ecomseo a clone of the ecommerce component tailored for SEO https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Search+ Engine+Optimisation,+SEO+in+ecommerce I propose to use it as the default ecommerce demo. This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well. As it's based on ecommerce, users should not experience a big changes, apart the changed URLs What do you think? Jacques
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
I have done the change for R16.11. BTW, trunk demo has no official link, should we not add one (not official?) somewhere in the site or the wiki? Jacques Le 22/09/2016 à 14:07, Jacques Le Roux a écrit : Le 22/09/2016 à 13:22, Scott Gray a écrit : This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well So does it need battle testing or does it work well? It works well for me. Have you deployed it to any production instances? Not directly, that's why I want it as default OFBiz demo Has anyone else? At least https://www.buchhandel.de/ https://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2 I guess you can find more starting from OFBIZ-5312 Jacques Regards Scott On 19 September 2016 at 01:27, Jacques Le Roux wrote: Hi, Maybe you don't know about or did not try it, but we have ecomseo a clone of the ecommerce component tailored for SEO https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Search+ Engine+Optimisation,+SEO+in+ecommerce I propose to use it as the default ecommerce demo. This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well. As it's based on ecommerce, users should not experience a big changes, apart the changed URLs What do you think? Jacques
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
Thanks for your opinion Jacques Le 24/09/2016 à 06:20, Scott Gray a écrit : Of course there are real world users, did you see the references? Yes I saw them, what does that have to do with my last email? Do we have a such document for ecommerce? No, so It's not a good argument to not switch the demo from ecommerce to ecomseo. You're asking for opinions and I can't give one without any knowledge of this feature so I'm simply telling you that the lack of documentation is a hindrance to evaluation and adoption. I took a quick look at SeoConfig.xml and have no idea what most of it does. Would you not like to have spiders bots continuously crawling it without any risk? I don't understand this question. Replacing ecommerce by ecomseo is another matter, another step I'd say. It should have been the first step before any of this was committed but instead you pushed ahead and committed it as an alternative despite objections so now we have duplicated functionality and a messier codebase. I was going to list out the current set of possible SEO approaches that now exist in the codebase but it's all such an overlapping mess I can't make sense of it without spending too much time trying to figure it out. People need to stop adding things they can't get consensus on, IMO the mess that results is worse for the project than any missing feature. I'll never understand why some committers are so desperate to see something committed that they'll push forward at any cost. Not every feature has to start it's life in the OFBiz repo. And I'm surprised that you prefer to have "/control/" in each URL by default :/ That is not the deciding factor in this discussion for me. I'm against any change to the status quo until we get this mess cleaned up. Regards Scott On 23 September 2016 at 20:34, Jacques Le Roux wrote: Hi Scott, Of course there are real world users, did you see the references? Do we have a such document for ecommerce? No, so It's not a good argument to not switch the demo from ecommerce to ecomseo. Would you not like to have spiders bots continuously crawling it without any risk? Replacing ecommerce by ecomseo is another matter, another step I'd say. And I'm surprised that you prefer to have "/control/" in each URL by default :/ Compare https://ofbiz-vm.apache.org:8443/ecomseo with https://ofbiz-vm.apache.org:8443/ecommerce/control/main Jacques Le 23/09/2016 à 01:15, Scott Gray a écrit : Well for me it's a -1 until I hear some positive reviews from other users (and ideally committers). I don't like having two ecommerce webapps and my preference would be to merge the two into one, but I can't promote that idea without any group consensus that the SEO approach is good and well architected. A document describing the architecture would make that much easier and I'm amazed one wasn't supplied with the proposal, no wonder it sat there without much attention for so long. But since one doesn't exist we'll just have to wait until people have time/care to review it and/or use it and provide feedback. Regards Scott On 23 September 2016 at 00:07, Jacques Le Roux < jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com wrote: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312 More athttps://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2214?jql=project %20%3D%20OFBIZ%20AND%20text%20~%20%22seo%22 Jacques Le 22/09/2016 à 13:25, Scott Gray a écrit : By the way, is there any technical or user documentation for it? I haven't looked at it and don't have time to review the actual implementation right now. The link you provided doesn't offer much more than a sales pitch. Regards Scott On 22 September 2016 at 23:22, Scott Gray wrote: This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well So does it need battle testing or does it work well? Have you deployed it to any production instances? Has anyone else? Regards Scott On 19 September 2016 at 01:27, Jacques Le Roux < jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote: Hi, Maybe you don't know about or did not try it, but we have ecomseo a clone of the ecommerce component tailored for SEO https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Search+Eng ine+Optimisation,+SEO+in+ecommerce I propose to use it as the default ecommerce demo. This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well. As it's based on ecommerce, users should not experience a big changes, apart the changed URLs What do you think? Jacques
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
> Of course there are real world users, did you see the references? Yes I saw them, what does that have to do with my last email? > Do we have a such document for ecommerce? No, so It's not a good argument to not switch the demo from ecommerce to ecomseo. You're asking for opinions and I can't give one without any knowledge of this feature so I'm simply telling you that the lack of documentation is a hindrance to evaluation and adoption. I took a quick look at SeoConfig.xml and have no idea what most of it does. > Would you not like to have spiders bots continuously crawling it without any risk? I don't understand this question. > Replacing ecommerce by ecomseo is another matter, another step I'd say. It should have been the first step before any of this was committed but instead you pushed ahead and committed it as an alternative despite objections so now we have duplicated functionality and a messier codebase. I was going to list out the current set of possible SEO approaches that now exist in the codebase but it's all such an overlapping mess I can't make sense of it without spending too much time trying to figure it out. People need to stop adding things they can't get consensus on, IMO the mess that results is worse for the project than any missing feature. I'll never understand why some committers are so desperate to see something committed that they'll push forward at any cost. Not every feature has to start it's life in the OFBiz repo. > And I'm surprised that you prefer to have "/control/" in each URL by default :/ That is not the deciding factor in this discussion for me. I'm against any change to the status quo until we get this mess cleaned up. Regards Scott On 23 September 2016 at 20:34, Jacques Le Roux wrote: > Hi Scott, > > Of course there are real world users, did you see the references? > > Do we have a such document for ecommerce? No, so It's not a good argument > to not switch the demo from ecommerce to ecomseo. Would you not like to > have spiders bots continuously crawling it without any risk? > > Replacing ecommerce by ecomseo is another matter, another step I'd say. > > And I'm surprised that you prefer to have "/control/" in each URL by > default :/ > > Compare > https://ofbiz-vm.apache.org:8443/ecomseo > with > https://ofbiz-vm.apache.org:8443/ecommerce/control/main > > Jacques > > > > Le 23/09/2016 à 01:15, Scott Gray a écrit : > >> Well for me it's a -1 until I hear some positive reviews from other users >> (and ideally committers). I don't like having two ecommerce webapps and >> my >> preference would be to merge the two into one, but I can't promote that >> idea without any group consensus that the SEO approach is good and well >> architected. A document describing the architecture would make that much >> easier and I'm amazed one wasn't supplied with the proposal, no wonder it >> sat there without much attention for so long. But since one doesn't exist >> we'll just have to wait until people have time/care to review it and/or >> use >> it and provide feedback. >> >> Regards >> Scott >> >> On 23 September 2016 at 00:07, Jacques Le Roux < >> jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com >> >>> wrote: >>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312 >>> >>> More athttps://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2214?jql=project >>> %20%3D%20OFBIZ%20AND%20text%20~%20%22seo%22 >>> >>> Jacques >>> >>> >>> >>> Le 22/09/2016 à 13:25, Scott Gray a écrit : >>> >>> By the way, is there any technical or user documentation for it? I haven't looked at it and don't have time to review the actual implementation right now. The link you provided doesn't offer much more than a sales pitch. Regards Scott On 22 September 2016 at 23:22, Scott Gray wrote: This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well > So does it need battle testing or does it work well? Have you deployed > it > to any production instances? Has anyone else? > > Regards > Scott > > On 19 September 2016 at 01:27, Jacques Le Roux < > jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote: > > Hi, > >> Maybe you don't know about or did not try it, but we have ecomseo a >> clone >> of the ecommerce component tailored for SEO >> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Search+Eng >> ine+Optimisation,+SEO+in+ecommerce >> >> I propose to use it as the default ecommerce demo. This mostly to >> somehow >> battle test it, even if I know it works well. >> >> As it's based on ecommerce, users should not experience a big changes, >> apart the changed URLs >> >> What do you think? >> >> Jacques >> >> >> >> >
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
Hi Scott, Of course there are real world users, did you see the references? Do we have a such document for ecommerce? No, so It's not a good argument to not switch the demo from ecommerce to ecomseo. Would you not like to have spiders bots continuously crawling it without any risk? Replacing ecommerce by ecomseo is another matter, another step I'd say. And I'm surprised that you prefer to have "/control/" in each URL by default :/ Compare https://ofbiz-vm.apache.org:8443/ecomseo with https://ofbiz-vm.apache.org:8443/ecommerce/control/main Jacques Le 23/09/2016 à 01:15, Scott Gray a écrit : Well for me it's a -1 until I hear some positive reviews from other users (and ideally committers). I don't like having two ecommerce webapps and my preference would be to merge the two into one, but I can't promote that idea without any group consensus that the SEO approach is good and well architected. A document describing the architecture would make that much easier and I'm amazed one wasn't supplied with the proposal, no wonder it sat there without much attention for so long. But since one doesn't exist we'll just have to wait until people have time/care to review it and/or use it and provide feedback. Regards Scott On 23 September 2016 at 00:07, Jacques Le Roux wrote: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312 More athttps://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2214?jql=project %20%3D%20OFBIZ%20AND%20text%20~%20%22seo%22 Jacques Le 22/09/2016 à 13:25, Scott Gray a écrit : By the way, is there any technical or user documentation for it? I haven't looked at it and don't have time to review the actual implementation right now. The link you provided doesn't offer much more than a sales pitch. Regards Scott On 22 September 2016 at 23:22, Scott Gray wrote: This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well So does it need battle testing or does it work well? Have you deployed it to any production instances? Has anyone else? Regards Scott On 19 September 2016 at 01:27, Jacques Le Roux < jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote: Hi, Maybe you don't know about or did not try it, but we have ecomseo a clone of the ecommerce component tailored for SEO https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Search+Eng ine+Optimisation,+SEO+in+ecommerce I propose to use it as the default ecommerce demo. This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well. As it's based on ecommerce, users should not experience a big changes, apart the changed URLs What do you think? Jacques
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
Well for me it's a -1 until I hear some positive reviews from other users (and ideally committers). I don't like having two ecommerce webapps and my preference would be to merge the two into one, but I can't promote that idea without any group consensus that the SEO approach is good and well architected. A document describing the architecture would make that much easier and I'm amazed one wasn't supplied with the proposal, no wonder it sat there without much attention for so long. But since one doesn't exist we'll just have to wait until people have time/care to review it and/or use it and provide feedback. Regards Scott On 23 September 2016 at 00:07, Jacques Le Roux wrote: > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312 > > More at https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2214?jql=project > %20%3D%20OFBIZ%20AND%20text%20~%20%22seo%22 > > Jacques > > > > Le 22/09/2016 à 13:25, Scott Gray a écrit : > >> By the way, is there any technical or user documentation for it? I >> haven't >> looked at it and don't have time to review the actual implementation right >> now. The link you provided doesn't offer much more than a sales pitch. >> >> Regards >> Scott >> >> On 22 September 2016 at 23:22, Scott Gray >> wrote: >> >> This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well >>> >>> >>> So does it need battle testing or does it work well? Have you deployed >>> it >>> to any production instances? Has anyone else? >>> >>> Regards >>> Scott >>> >>> On 19 September 2016 at 01:27, Jacques Le Roux < >>> jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi, Maybe you don't know about or did not try it, but we have ecomseo a clone of the ecommerce component tailored for SEO https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Search+Eng ine+Optimisation,+SEO+in+ecommerce I propose to use it as the default ecommerce demo. This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well. As it's based on ecommerce, users should not experience a big changes, apart the changed URLs What do you think? Jacques >
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312 More at https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2214?jql=project%20%3D%20OFBIZ%20AND%20text%20~%20%22seo%22 Jacques Le 22/09/2016 à 13:25, Scott Gray a écrit : By the way, is there any technical or user documentation for it? I haven't looked at it and don't have time to review the actual implementation right now. The link you provided doesn't offer much more than a sales pitch. Regards Scott On 22 September 2016 at 23:22, Scott Gray wrote: This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well So does it need battle testing or does it work well? Have you deployed it to any production instances? Has anyone else? Regards Scott On 19 September 2016 at 01:27, Jacques Le Roux < jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote: Hi, Maybe you don't know about or did not try it, but we have ecomseo a clone of the ecommerce component tailored for SEO https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Search+Eng ine+Optimisation,+SEO+in+ecommerce I propose to use it as the default ecommerce demo. This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well. As it's based on ecommerce, users should not experience a big changes, apart the changed URLs What do you think? Jacques
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
Le 22/09/2016 à 13:22, Scott Gray a écrit : This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well So does it need battle testing or does it work well? It works well for me. Have you deployed it to any production instances? Not directly, that's why I want it as default OFBiz demo Has anyone else? At least https://www.buchhandel.de/ https://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2 I guess you can find more starting from OFBIZ-5312 Jacques Regards Scott On 19 September 2016 at 01:27, Jacques Le Roux wrote: Hi, Maybe you don't know about or did not try it, but we have ecomseo a clone of the ecommerce component tailored for SEO https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Search+ Engine+Optimisation,+SEO+in+ecommerce I propose to use it as the default ecommerce demo. This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well. As it's based on ecommerce, users should not experience a big changes, apart the changed URLs What do you think? Jacques
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
By the way, is there any technical or user documentation for it? I haven't looked at it and don't have time to review the actual implementation right now. The link you provided doesn't offer much more than a sales pitch. Regards Scott On 22 September 2016 at 23:22, Scott Gray wrote: > This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well > > > So does it need battle testing or does it work well? Have you deployed it > to any production instances? Has anyone else? > > Regards > Scott > > On 19 September 2016 at 01:27, Jacques Le Roux < > jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Maybe you don't know about or did not try it, but we have ecomseo a clone >> of the ecommerce component tailored for SEO >> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Search+Eng >> ine+Optimisation,+SEO+in+ecommerce >> >> I propose to use it as the default ecommerce demo. This mostly to somehow >> battle test it, even if I know it works well. >> >> As it's based on ecommerce, users should not experience a big changes, >> apart the changed URLs >> >> What do you think? >> >> Jacques >> >> >
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
> > This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well So does it need battle testing or does it work well? Have you deployed it to any production instances? Has anyone else? Regards Scott On 19 September 2016 at 01:27, Jacques Le Roux wrote: > Hi, > > Maybe you don't know about or did not try it, but we have ecomseo a clone > of the ecommerce component tailored for SEO > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Search+ > Engine+Optimisation,+SEO+in+ecommerce > > I propose to use it as the default ecommerce demo. This mostly to somehow > battle test it, even if I know it works well. > > As it's based on ecommerce, users should not experience a big changes, > apart the changed URLs > > What do you think? > > Jacques > >
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
OK forget it for now. I just realised that ecomseo starts with R15. So you can still get to it in trunk demo using https://ofbiz-vm.apache.org:8443/ecomseo but it will available to users from official site main page only when we will roll out R16 But mmm, I vaguely remember having proposed to rotate our demos. Since we will not publish R16 before at least some months, could we not? 1. drop R12.04 (no longer supported anyway) 2. Rename related title in site main page from 12.04 Release Branch Demo (old) to R15 Pending Branch Demo (unstable) 3. And replace R12.04 by R15 Opinions? Jacques Le 21/09/2016 à 18:40, Jacques Le Roux a écrit : After 3 day, I consider this a lazy consensus since nobody chimed in and will change accordingly tomorrow Jacques Le 18/09/2016 à 15:27, Jacques Le Roux a écrit : Hi, Maybe you don't know about or did not try it, but we have ecomseo a clone of the ecommerce component tailored for SEO https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Search+Engine+Optimisation,+SEO+in+ecommerce I propose to use it as the default ecommerce demo. This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well. As it's based on ecommerce, users should not experience a big changes, apart the changed URLs What do you think? Jacques
Re: Use ecomseo on demo rather than ecommerce
After 3 day, I consider this a lazy consensus since nobody chimed in and will change accordingly tomorrow Jacques Le 18/09/2016 à 15:27, Jacques Le Roux a écrit : Hi, Maybe you don't know about or did not try it, but we have ecomseo a clone of the ecommerce component tailored for SEO https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Search+Engine+Optimisation,+SEO+in+ecommerce I propose to use it as the default ecommerce demo. This mostly to somehow battle test it, even if I know it works well. As it's based on ecommerce, users should not experience a big changes, apart the changed URLs What do you think? Jacques
