Re: All about crashes

[Tobias B. Besemer]

About:

> Additionally it would be great to see information on handling OOMs (large
> and small) as those are our top crashers, and if anything I think project
> uptime should be focusing on mitigating them. Fixing null derefs for a few
> hundred users is nice, but fixing OOMs for tens of thousands of users is
> even better!

AFAIK FF (try to) makes a mem dump when a OOM is near...

What about "crashing" all tabs (remove them from mem and show a error msg in 
them) to crash first tabs with a error msg like "Memory runs out! Firefox had 
to remove all tabs from memory to prevent a crash! Please restart Firefox!" 
instead of crash FF ???
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Re: All about crashes

[Tobias B. Besemer]

Am Dienstag, 24. Mai 2016 06:56:54 UTC+2 schrieb Nicholas Nethercote:
> Greetings,
> 
> I've written a document called "All about crashes" which I've put on
> the Project Uptime wiki:
> 
> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Platform/Uptime#All_about_crashes
> 
> It's about all the different ways we can discover, diagnose, and
> address crashes. It's intended to be a comprehensive, because I want
> to use it to help identify and prioritise all the ways we could do
> better.
> 
> I would appreciate any feedback people might have. I'm sure I have
> gotten some things wrong, and omitted some things. Thanks in advance.
> 
> Nick

If the topic "crashes" is up:
Why are there so many crashes on Windows and so less on Linux ???

Seems to be something in the OS, right?
Memory Management, Garbage Collection, Compiler, ... ???
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Re: Requiring SSE2 on all 32-bit x86 OSs (was: Re: Reverting to VS2013 on central and aurora)

[Tobias B. Besemer]

"[...] The earlier 'SIMD' instruction sets on the x86 platform, from oldest to 
newest, are 'MMX', '3DNow!' (developed by AMD), 'SSE' and 'SSE2'. [...]"
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSE3 (At the top.)

Is support for 'MMX' & '3DNow!' already dropped?

-BesTo
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Re: What is "Process Type = content" in "mozilla crash reports"?

[Tobias B. Besemer]

Am Freitag, 20. Mai 2016 11:08:16 UTC+2 schrieb Dirkjan Ochtman:
> On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 11:28 PM, Tobias B. Besemer wrote:
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streaming_SIMD_Extensions
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSE2
> 
> Hi Tobias,
> 
> I applaud your enthusiasm in wanting to contribute to this effort.
> However, in doing so, you've sent 8 messages in the past 16 hours, 6
> of which were responding to other emails you yourself sent. Please
> consider waiting a little longer and doing more research before you
> send a message; dev-platform is a widely read mailing list, so each
> email you sent takes significant attention, in the aggregate, to
> process.
> 
> Thanks for taking this into account in the future,
> 
> Dirkjan

Normally I'm f*cking fast and do a lot more then others each day...
...also there are some rumors that I'm very intelligent and very creative what 
should be the reason that I thinking all the time about a lot of problems and 
ideas and then have a lot of creative ideas and solution in a short time...
This is normally the reason why I always (in each project, group, bug reporter, 
etc.) have much more things posted/open/write/etc. then others...
But if you think I work to much and it looks bad if more 
information/feedback/ideas/etc. come from me, then from others, then I will try 
to reduce the work I send into the project. ^^
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Re: Updating 32-bit Windows users to 64-bit Windows builds?

[Tobias B. Besemer]

Am Freitag, 20. Mai 2016 01:48:24 UTC+2 schrieb Robert Strong:
> On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Tobias B. Besemer wrote:
> 
> > Am Freitag, 13. Mai 2016 22:41:01 UTC+2 schrieb Benjamin Smedberg:
> > > We have considered this, but in the grand rollout plans for 64-bit
> > Firefox
> > > it's low on the list. We're still dealing with Flash
> > sandboxing/functional
> > > regressions as a blocker for wider rollout, and the next step is probably
> > > to progressively roll out win64 to new users before we consider anything
> > > for existing users.
> > >
> > > This will be much easier now that we have widevine and are dropping
> > > npapi/silverlight, but addon compat is also a concern and we wanted to
> > > partly wait for webextensions before pushing more on this.
> > >
> > > --BDS
> >
> > Sounds like a plan for me!
> > Maybe there can be a ship of a installer that include 32bit & 64bit?
> > Or at least have one web-installer for both versions?
> > Also giving the user the change to make a easy upgrade from 32bit to 64bit
> > with the offline-installer would be nice and a good test-drive for a future
> > auto-update...
> >
> The installer does not equal auto-update. Two separate things entirely.
> Download size for a combined installer is not something we want to do to
> people on slow network connection but the auto selection via the stub
> installer is planned though no completion date yet due to other work having
> priority.

The idea was to test the upgrade from 32bit to 64bit first with the offline 
installer because it should effect less people and would be maybe a good test 
for all the routines/logic behind it like e.g. uninstall something, moving 
files, or something like this...

If not to much work, I would prefer to have one 32bit/64bit-installer for 
people who don't know the difference... (as default download.)
Single Just-32bit/64bit-installer can persist for people who know for what they 
have to looking for... (AFAICR other project did/do the same.) (At least with 
just-English and multi-lang installers...)

As I didn't knew how Mozilla will handle the switch... if - like by IE - there 
will be 32bit/64bit parallel, or like Chrome do it, just one version... I 
installed from each channel both version on my system and created a bunch of 
icons for it, because the version overwrite ATM the icons from each other...
I guess that a lot of people have the almost same scenario (both versions), but 
by mistake and don't realize it!
So a routine (first in offline installer) in the 64bit version that check if a 
(old) 32bit version exist too on the system and when, then de-install it while 
install/update the 64bit version would be (IMHO) nice.
(Can test this and make QA.)

Also I would like to see a error msg in future (or at least a big warning) if a 
user try to use the 32bit installer on a 64bit system.

AFAIK there is also no MozillaMaintenanceService as 64bit now...

...and the MozillaMaintenanceService should also block to install a 32bit 
version on a 64bit Win (even normally no-one use this installer manual) and 
uninstall 32bit if 64bit gets installed or updated.

A long open wish from me (and I guess others, too) would be to see in future a 
multi-lang web-installer. Should also make things easier...
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Re: Updating 32-bit Windows users to 64-bit Windows builds?

[Tobias B. Besemer]

Am Freitag, 13. Mai 2016 22:41:01 UTC+2 schrieb Benjamin Smedberg:
> We have considered this, but in the grand rollout plans for 64-bit Firefox
> it's low on the list. We're still dealing with Flash sandboxing/functional
> regressions as a blocker for wider rollout, and the next step is probably
> to progressively roll out win64 to new users before we consider anything
> for existing users.
> 
> This will be much easier now that we have widevine and are dropping
> npapi/silverlight, but addon compat is also a concern and we wanted to
> partly wait for webextensions before pushing more on this.
> 
> --BDS

Sounds like a plan for me!
Maybe there can be a ship of a installer that include 32bit & 64bit?
Or at least have one web-installer for both versions?
Also giving the user the change to make a easy upgrade from 32bit to 64bit with 
the offline-installer would be nice and a good test-drive for a future 
auto-update...


> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 11:45 AM, Ted Mielczarek  wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> >
> > Given all the discussion around SSE[2] lately, I was curious as to
> > whether we had made any plans to update Windows users that are running
> > 32-bit Windows builds on a 64-bit Windows OS to our 64-bit Windows
> > builds. The 64-bit Windows builds do use SSE2, since that's a baseline
> > requirement for x86-64 processors, and the overall performance should
> > generally be better (modulo memory usage, I'm not sure if we have an
> > exact comparison). Additionally 64-bit builds are much less likely to
> > encounter OOM crashes due to address space fragmentation since they have
> > a very large address space compared to the maximum 4GB available to the
> > 32-bit builds.
> >
> > It does seem like we'd need some minimal checking here, obviously first
> > for whether the user is running 64-bit Windows, but also possibly
> > whether they use 32-bit plugins (until such time as we unsupport NPAPI).
> > 32-bit plugins will not work on a 64-bit Windows Firefox (we do not have
> > the equivalent of Universal binaries like we do on OS X).
> >
> > -Ted
> > ___
> > dev-platform mailing list
> > dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org
> > https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
> >

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Re: Updating 32-bit Windows users to 64-bit Windows builds?

[Tobias B. Besemer]

Am Freitag, 13. Mai 2016 14:35:52 UTC+2 schrieb Ben Hearsum:
> On 2016-05-12 06:44 PM, khagar...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 11:47:15 PM UTC+2, Karl Tomlinson wrote:
> >> Lawrence Mandel writes:
> >>
> >>> Do we need this criteria?
> >>>
> >>> RAM - Does it hurt to move an instance that has <4GB?
> >>
> >> Yes.  OOM will be more common with 64-bit builds on systems with
> >> less RAM because 64-bit builds use more memory.
> >
> > Quite the opposite actually. The overhead is negligible, but the stability 
> > improvement is tremendous. After switching to 64-bit I haven't crashed even 
> > once for several months, whereas on 32-bit I crashed several times a week.
> >
> 
> How much RAM do you have? 64-bit builds should use more memory than 
> 32-bit builds under the same circumstances. As others in this thread 
> have noted, this can lead to easier OOM crashes and slowness to due 
> additional swapping. If you have a bunch of RAM these downsides go away.

After there get a lot of mem problems fixed in FF over the last months, FF use 
in general less mem then before!
IMHO try to fix more mem-probs/-leaks should bring in general more and then you 
can forget get overhead.
(* My experiences with monitoring the FF mem over the last ~2.5years.)
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Re: Updating 32-bit Windows users to 64-bit Windows builds?

[Tobias B. Besemer]

Am Freitag, 13. Mai 2016 10:34:59 UTC+2 schrieb bo...@mozilla.com:
> On Thursday, 12 May 2016 21:36:53 UTC+1, Chris Peterson  wrote:
> > Yes. Flash and Silverlight both have 64-bit plugins that work in 64-bit 
> > Firefox. Streaming video services will likely move their Firefox users 
> > from Silverlight to Widevine this year, so Silverlight usage will 
> > decline by EOY.
> 
> As Flash Player doesn't provide Protected Mode for 64-bit, we've enabled our 
> own sandbox.
> Unfortunately this causes some regressions as the Flash DLL was never 
> designed to be sandboxed when run in process like this. We'd like to 
> strengthen the policy, but that breaks too many things.
> 
> So, we'd have to think carefully before deciding who we could move.
>  
> > On 5/12/16 1:10 PM, Ryan VanderMeulen wrote:
> > > Flash installs the 32-bit and 64-bit plugin versions side by side
> > > already (in System32 and SysWOW64, respectively), so I don't think
> > > that's an issue here.
> 
> Confusingly the 64-bit version lives in System32 and the 32-bit version in 
> SysWOW64.
> This is Microsoft's confusion not Adobe's.
> SysWOW64 generally contains files used for running 32-bit binaries on 64-bit 
> Windows (WOW64 is Windows [32-bit] On Windows 64[-bit])
> System32 is just a legacy naming hangover as I understand, because too many 
> application depended on it.

system   = 16-bit
System32 = 32-bit
SysWOW64 = 64-bit
(Or I have no clue where else the 64-bit-dlls get stored...)
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Re: Updating 32-bit Windows users to 64-bit Windows builds?

[Tobias B. Besemer]

Am Donnerstag, 12. Mai 2016 18:56:19 UTC+2 schrieb Ben Hearsum:
> Do you have thoughts on how we'll be able to serve the users the correct 
> build if we have to base the decision on plugins they may have or other 
> information that's not in the update ping? We can already detect 32-bit 
> builds on 64-bit Windows through the build target, but information about 
> plugins or RAM is not something we know about when serving updates.

Is it possible to find out from which plugins no 64bit version exist yet?
So e.g. if the user have Flash 32bit the update can happen... like with 
extensions on startup a check and a (forced) update...

AFAIK updates get always done without a check before if there exist a update 
for each extension... Is there really a plugin (vendor) that can be a reason to 
not update the browser to a newer (64bit) build?

Btw.: AFAIK there is also no check about the compatibility of plugins before a 
normal update starts and if a plugin is un-secure, FF deactivate it, too.

> 
> On 2016-05-12 11:45 AM, Ted Mielczarek wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > Given all the discussion around SSE[2] lately, I was curious as to
> > whether we had made any plans to update Windows users that are running
> > 32-bit Windows builds on a 64-bit Windows OS to our 64-bit Windows
> > builds. The 64-bit Windows builds do use SSE2, since that's a baseline
> > requirement for x86-64 processors, and the overall performance should
> > generally be better (modulo memory usage, I'm not sure if we have an
> > exact comparison). Additionally 64-bit builds are much less likely to
> > encounter OOM crashes due to address space fragmentation since they have
> > a very large address space compared to the maximum 4GB available to the
> > 32-bit builds.
> >
> > It does seem like we'd need some minimal checking here, obviously first
> > for whether the user is running 64-bit Windows, but also possibly
> > whether they use 32-bit plugins (until such time as we unsupport NPAPI).
> > 32-bit plugins will not work on a 64-bit Windows Firefox (we do not have
> > the equivalent of Universal binaries like we do on OS X).
> >
> > -Ted
> >

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Re: Updating 32-bit Windows users to 64-bit Windows builds?

[Tobias B. Besemer]

Am Donnerstag, 12. Mai 2016 18:22:53 UTC+2 schrieb David Baron:
> On Thursday 2016-05-12 11:45 -0400, Ted Mielczarek wrote:
> > requirement for x86-64 processors, and the overall performance should
> > generally be better (modulo memory usage, I'm not sure if we have an
> > exact comparison). Additionally 64-bit builds are much less likely to
> > encounter OOM crashes due to address space fragmentation since they have
> > a very large address space compared to the maximum 4GB available to the
> > 32-bit builds.
> 
> Might it be worth considering automatically updating users on
> machines with 6GB (roughly) or more of RAM, but leaving alone users
> with less RAM?

No!
FF crashes at ~2.5GB used ram!
Also AFAIK the mem can be used from the pagefile.sys... (even really slow!)
So there should be no min. system limit for a OOM crash!

> 
> -David
> 
> -- 
> 턞   L. David Baron http://dbaron.org/   턂
> 턢   Mozilla  https://www.mozilla.org/   턂
>  Before I built a wall I'd ask to know
>  What I was walling in or walling out,
>  And to whom I was like to give offense.
>- Robert Frost, Mending Wall (1914)

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Re: What is "Process Type = content" in "mozilla crash reports"?

[Tobias B. Besemer]

Am Donnerstag, 19. Mai 2016 23:03:16 UTC+2 schrieb Tobias B. Besemer:
> Am Donnerstag, 19. Mai 2016 22:59:35 UTC+2 schrieb Tobias B. Besemer:
> > Am Donnerstag, 19. Mai 2016 22:00:55 UTC+2 schrieb Nathan Froyd:
> > > On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 1:58 PM, Tobias B. Besemer wrote:
> > > > Question is:
> > > > If Mozilla will really "Backout MSVC 2015 from aurora" because 2 people 
> > > > are not able to configure there PCs right in BIOS ???
> > > > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1270664
> > > 
> > > Perhaps those people deliberately disabled SSE in their BIOS for
> > > testing purposes.  Which is valuable, because very few Firefox
> > > developers are testing on non-SSE capable CPUs.
> > > 
> > > In any event, you misunderstand the cause here.  We're not backing out
> > > MSVC changes just because of these two users.  We're backing out MSVC
> > > changes because other infrastructure (the update server, the
> > > installer, etc.) isn't yet prepared for the SSE-required world we
> > > appear to be moving towards.  Making those changes deliberately in 49,
> > > rather than being surprised by it in 48, ensures a better experience
> > > for everyone (e.g. Firefox doesn't mysteriously start crashing when
> > > upgrades happen).
> > > 
> > > -Nathan
> > 
> > OK, means if there is no switch back to the older compiler, the compiled 
> > app wouldn't run without SSE2?
> 
> Sorry! Mean: Compiled with MSVC 2015 Firefox wouldn't run on Windows PC with 
> a Pentium II processor, or older (older then 1999)... ^^
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streaming_SIMD_Extensions

Here some truths about SSE...

"In computing, Streaming SIMD Extensions (SSE) is an SIMD instruction set 
extension to the x86 architecture, designed by Intel and introduced in 1999 in 
their Pentium III series processors as a reply to AMD's 3DNow!"
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streaming_SIMD_Extensions

...so the last processor _without_ SSE is a Pentium II...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_II

Tech specs:
Produced:   From mid-1997 to early 1999
Max. CPU clock rate:233 MHz to 450 MHz
FSB speeds: 66 MHz to 100 MHz

Requirements for Win7:
[...] As expected, Windows 10 follows more in the line of 7 than it does 8, 
wrapping all but the most pitiful of PCs under its umbrella of coverage.
Given that Microsoft plans to support 10 universally across a wide variety of 
smartphones, tablets, laptops and desktops, it’s not exactly surprising that 
you can almost run the new OS on a toaster if you really wanted to.
Minimum system requirements for Windows 10 include a 1GHz processor or faster 
(single-core). 1GB of RAM will be necessary for the 32-bit version, while 
you’ll need to bump your computer up to 2GB if you plan on picking up the 
64-bit build. [...]
http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/according-to-microsofts-specs-a-toaster-could-run-windows-10-so-you-probably-can-to/

But a Pentium II have only max. 450 MHz!

Requirements Vista...
Windows Vista Home Basic:
- 800-megahertz (MHz) 32-bit (x86) processor or 800-MHz 64-bit (x64) processor
- 512 megabytes (MB) of system memory
Note On system configurations that use system memory as graphics memory, at 
least 448 MB of system memory must be available to the operating system after 
some memory is allocated for graphics.
[...]
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/919183

...doesn't work with Pentium II!

Now XP...
Hardware requirements:
To install SP3 on a single computer, your computer must have a CD-ROM drive and 
at least the following:
A 233 megahertz (MHz) processor
64 megabytes (MB) of RAM
900 MB of available disk space during installation
https://technet.microsoft.com/de-de/library/cc507836.aspx

... so yes, you can install a WinXP on a Pentium II!

But this OS have some security vulnerabilities...
... to be exact: 70!
https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-26/product_id-739/cvssscoremin-5/cvssscoremax-5.99/Microsoft-Windows-Xp.html

But if Mozilla spend enough time the next days, you will be able to run Firefox 
48 on a Windows XP, that have - if all fixes installed - 70 security 
vulnerabilities, with a Pentium II from 1998... ^^
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Re: What is "Process Type = content" in "mozilla crash reports"?

[Tobias B. Besemer]

Am Donnerstag, 19. Mai 2016 23:25:15 UTC+2 schrieb Tobias B. Besemer:
> Am Donnerstag, 19. Mai 2016 23:03:16 UTC+2 schrieb Tobias B. Besemer:
> > Am Donnerstag, 19. Mai 2016 22:59:35 UTC+2 schrieb Tobias B. Besemer:
> > > Am Donnerstag, 19. Mai 2016 22:00:55 UTC+2 schrieb Nathan Froyd:
> > > > On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 1:58 PM, Tobias B. Besemer wrote:
> > > > > Question is:
> > > > > If Mozilla will really "Backout MSVC 2015 from aurora" because 2 
> > > > > people are not able to configure there PCs right in BIOS ???
> > > > > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1270664
> > > > 
> > > > Perhaps those people deliberately disabled SSE in their BIOS for
> > > > testing purposes.  Which is valuable, because very few Firefox
> > > > developers are testing on non-SSE capable CPUs.
> > > > 
> > > > In any event, you misunderstand the cause here.  We're not backing out
> > > > MSVC changes just because of these two users.  We're backing out MSVC
> > > > changes because other infrastructure (the update server, the
> > > > installer, etc.) isn't yet prepared for the SSE-required world we
> > > > appear to be moving towards.  Making those changes deliberately in 49,
> > > > rather than being surprised by it in 48, ensures a better experience
> > > > for everyone (e.g. Firefox doesn't mysteriously start crashing when
> > > > upgrades happen).
> > > > 
> > > > -Nathan
> > > 
> > > OK, means if there is no switch back to the older compiler, the compiled 
> > > app wouldn't run without SSE2?
> > 
> > Sorry! Mean: Compiled with MSVC 2015 Firefox wouldn't run on Windows PC 
> > with a Pentium II processor, or older (older then 1999)... ^^
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streaming_SIMD_Extensions
> 
> Here some truths about SSE...
> 
> "In computing, Streaming SIMD Extensions (SSE) is an SIMD instruction set 
> extension to the x86 architecture, designed by Intel and introduced in 1999 
> in their Pentium III series processors as a reply to AMD's 3DNow!"
> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streaming_SIMD_Extensions
> 
> ...so the last processor _without_ SSE is a Pentium II...
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_II
> 
> Tech specs:
> Produced: From mid-1997 to early 1999
> Max. CPU clock rate:  233 MHz to 450 MHz
> FSB speeds:   66 MHz to 100 MHz
> 
> Requirements for Win7:
> [...] As expected, Windows 10 follows more in the line of 7 than it does 8, 
> wrapping all but the most pitiful of PCs under its umbrella of coverage.
> Given that Microsoft plans to support 10 universally across a wide variety of 
> smartphones, tablets, laptops and desktops, it’s not exactly surprising that 
> you can almost run the new OS on a toaster if you really wanted to.
> Minimum system requirements for Windows 10 include a 1GHz processor or faster 
> (single-core). 1GB of RAM will be necessary for the 32-bit version, while 
> you’ll need to bump your computer up to 2GB if you plan on picking up the 
> 64-bit build. [...]
> http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/according-to-microsofts-specs-a-toaster-could-run-windows-10-so-you-probably-can-to/
> 
> But a Pentium II have only max. 450 MHz!
> 
> Requirements Vista...
> Windows Vista Home Basic:
> - 800-megahertz (MHz) 32-bit (x86) processor or 800-MHz 64-bit (x64) processor
> - 512 megabytes (MB) of system memory
> Note On system configurations that use system memory as graphics memory, 
> at least 448 MB of system memory must be available to the operating system 
> after some memory is allocated for graphics.
> [...]
> https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/919183
> 
> ...doesn't work with Pentium II!
> 
> Now XP...
> Hardware requirements:
> To install SP3 on a single computer, your computer must have a CD-ROM drive 
> and at least the following:
> A 233 megahertz (MHz) processor
> 64 megabytes (MB) of RAM
> 900 MB of available disk space during installation
> https://technet.microsoft.com/de-de/library/cc507836.aspx
> 
> ... so yes, you can install a WinXP on a Pentium II!
> 
> But this OS have some security vulnerabilities...
> ... to be exact: 70!
> https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-26/product_id-739/cvssscoremin-5/cvssscoremax-5.99/Microsoft-Windows-Xp.html
> 
> But if Mozilla spend enough time the next days, you will be able to run 
> Firefox 48 on a Windows XP, that have - if all fixes installed - 70 security 
> vulnerabilities, with a Pentium II from 1998... ^^

Comment 1 says "Downgrade to VS2013 due to unwanted SSE instruction 
insertion"...
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1270664#c1

Or is this wrong ???

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streaming_SIMD_Extensions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSE2
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Re: What is "Process Type = content" in "mozilla crash reports"?

[Tobias B. Besemer]

Am Donnerstag, 19. Mai 2016 22:59:35 UTC+2 schrieb Tobias B. Besemer:
> Am Donnerstag, 19. Mai 2016 22:00:55 UTC+2 schrieb Nathan Froyd:
> > On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 1:58 PM, Tobias B. Besemer wrote:
> > > Question is:
> > > If Mozilla will really "Backout MSVC 2015 from aurora" because 2 people 
> > > are not able to configure there PCs right in BIOS ???
> > > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1270664
> > 
> > Perhaps those people deliberately disabled SSE in their BIOS for
> > testing purposes.  Which is valuable, because very few Firefox
> > developers are testing on non-SSE capable CPUs.
> > 
> > In any event, you misunderstand the cause here.  We're not backing out
> > MSVC changes just because of these two users.  We're backing out MSVC
> > changes because other infrastructure (the update server, the
> > installer, etc.) isn't yet prepared for the SSE-required world we
> > appear to be moving towards.  Making those changes deliberately in 49,
> > rather than being surprised by it in 48, ensures a better experience
> > for everyone (e.g. Firefox doesn't mysteriously start crashing when
> > upgrades happen).
> > 
> > -Nathan
> 
> OK, means if there is no switch back to the older compiler, the compiled app 
> wouldn't run without SSE2?

Sorry! Mean: Compiled with MSVC 2015 Firefox wouldn't run on Windows PC with a 
Pentium II processor, or older (older then 1999)... ^^
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streaming_SIMD_Extensions
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Re: What is "Process Type = content" in "mozilla crash reports"?

[Tobias B. Besemer]

Am Donnerstag, 19. Mai 2016 22:00:55 UTC+2 schrieb Nathan Froyd:
> On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 1:58 PM, Tobias B. Besemer wrote:
> > Question is:
> > If Mozilla will really "Backout MSVC 2015 from aurora" because 2 people are 
> > not able to configure there PCs right in BIOS ???
> > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1270664
> 
> Perhaps those people deliberately disabled SSE in their BIOS for
> testing purposes.  Which is valuable, because very few Firefox
> developers are testing on non-SSE capable CPUs.
> 
> In any event, you misunderstand the cause here.  We're not backing out
> MSVC changes just because of these two users.  We're backing out MSVC
> changes because other infrastructure (the update server, the
> installer, etc.) isn't yet prepared for the SSE-required world we
> appear to be moving towards.  Making those changes deliberately in 49,
> rather than being surprised by it in 48, ensures a better experience
> for everyone (e.g. Firefox doesn't mysteriously start crashing when
> upgrades happen).
> 
> -Nathan

OK, means if there is no switch back to the older compiler, the compiled app 
wouldn't run without SSE2?
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Re: What is "Process Type = content" in "mozilla crash reports"?

[Tobias B. Besemer]

Example for "GenuineIntel Family 6 Model 15 Stepping 13":
http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/125284
(Intel Core 2 Duo T5800 @ 2.00 GHz)
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Re: What is "Process Type = content" in "mozilla crash reports"?

[Tobias B. Besemer]

Am Donnerstag, 19. Mai 2016 20:49:08 UTC+2 schrieb Tobias B. Besemer:
> Am Donnerstag, 19. Mai 2016 19:58:50 UTC+2 schrieb Tobias B. Besemer:
> > Am Donnerstag, 19. Mai 2016 19:53:40 UTC+2 schrieb Tobias B. Besemer:
> > > Am Donnerstag, 19. Mai 2016 17:46:58 UTC+2 schrieb Gijs Kruitbosch:
> > > > On 19/05/2016 16:35, Tobias B. Besemer wrote:
> > > > > Due to the upcoming requirement of SSE2 to run Firefox that is 
> > > > > discussed here:
> > > > > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mozilla.dev.platform/v0QAe2olnH0
> > > > >
> > > > > ...I had a look on...
> > > > > Bug 1271755 - [meta] Require SSE2 to run Firefox
> > > > > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1271755
> > > > >
> > > > > ...then on...
> > > > > Bug 1270664 - Backout MSVC 2015 from aurora
> > > > > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1270664
> > > > >
> > > > > ...and then the crash that comes up on non-SSE2-Systems...
> > > > > Bug 1265615 - crash in SkPath::isRectContour
> > > > > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1265615
> > > > >
> > > > > As I was interested in what kind of configurations that are, I opened:
> > > > > https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/signature/?product=Firefox=SkPath%3A%3AisRectContour
> > > > >
> > > > > ...here I get just 1 crash in the last 7 days with FF49.0a1 and 
> > > > > "Process Type = content".
> > > > >
> > > > > So what is "Process Type = content" in "mozilla crash reports"?
> > > > 
> > > > It means that when using electrolysis/e10s/"process separation for web 
> > > > content", the process running/displaying (ish) web content crashed 
> > > > (rather than Firefox as a whole crashing). It has nothing to do with 
> > > > SSE(2).
> > > > 
> > > > > And how I can have a look on the crash reports of e.g. the last ~30 
> > > > > days?
> > > > 
> > > > There are too many for looking at all crash reports to be a meaningful 
> > > > operation. If you mean all crash reports with that signature,
> > > > 
> > > > https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/report/list?product=Firefox_unit=days_value=28=SkPath%3A%3AisRectContour
> > > > 
> > > > ~ Gijs
> > > 
> > > OK, my fault!
> > > No native speaker and I read "processOR type"... ^^
> > > Processor is that what I'm was looking for...
> > > 
> > > So I had a look at...
> > > https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/report/list?product=Firefox_unit=days_value=28=SkPath%3A%3AisRectContour
> > > 
> > > ...then "View ALL products and versions for this signature."...
> > > https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/report/list?date=2016-05-19_unit=days_value=28=SkPath%3A%3AisRectContour
> > > 
> > > ...and then had on this huge amount of two reports a look... ;-)
> > > https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/report/list?date=2016-05-19_unit=days_value=28=SkPath%3A%3AisRectContour#tab-reports
> > > 
> > > I see:
> > > Build Architecture Info = AuthenticAMD family 6 model 4 stepping 2 | 1
> > > Build Architecture Info = GenuineIntel family 6 model 15 stepping 13 | 2
> > > 
> > > ...what IMHO means that the user have just deactivated SSE2-Support in 
> > > BIOS...
> > 
> > Question is:
> > If Mozilla will really "Backout MSVC 2015 from aurora" because 2 people are 
> > not able to configure there PCs right in BIOS ???
> > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1270664
> 
> OK, seems to be not 100% correct!
> 
> Build Architecture Info = AuthenticAMD family 6 model 4 stepping 2 | 1
> Seems to be:
> Athlon 1200 (Thunderbird)
> AMD Name String: AMD Athlon(tm) Processor
> Features: FPU TSC CX8 CMOV FXSR MMX
> http://www.masmforum.com/board/index.php?PHPSESSID=8d46cd4ecb1688be429ab49694ec53e6=1909.5;wap2
> (I'm wonder that this system can run Win7!)
> 
> And...
> Build Architecture Info = GenuineIntel family 6 model 15 stepping 13 | 2
> Seems to be somethink like this:
> Processor Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU 5130 @ 2.00GHz @ 2.00 GHz
> 2 Processors, 4 Threads
> Processor ID GenuineIntel Family 6 Model 15 Stepping 6
> L1 Instruction Cache 32.0 KB x 2
> L1 Data Cache 32.0 KB x 2
> L2 Cache 4.00 MB
> L3 Cache 0.00 B
> Memory 3.86 GB
> http://www1.hft-leipzig.de/s114122/geekbenchscore.html
> (With WinXP.)

But maybe the first is an emu...
https://qemu.weilnetz.de/w64/2012/2012-08-24/cpus-x86_64.conf
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Re: What is "Process Type = content" in "mozilla crash reports"?

[Tobias B. Besemer]

Am Donnerstag, 19. Mai 2016 19:58:50 UTC+2 schrieb Tobias B. Besemer:
> Am Donnerstag, 19. Mai 2016 19:53:40 UTC+2 schrieb Tobias B. Besemer:
> > Am Donnerstag, 19. Mai 2016 17:46:58 UTC+2 schrieb Gijs Kruitbosch:
> > > On 19/05/2016 16:35, Tobias B. Besemer wrote:
> > > > Due to the upcoming requirement of SSE2 to run Firefox that is 
> > > > discussed here:
> > > > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mozilla.dev.platform/v0QAe2olnH0
> > > >
> > > > ...I had a look on...
> > > > Bug 1271755 - [meta] Require SSE2 to run Firefox
> > > > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1271755
> > > >
> > > > ...then on...
> > > > Bug 1270664 - Backout MSVC 2015 from aurora
> > > > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1270664
> > > >
> > > > ...and then the crash that comes up on non-SSE2-Systems...
> > > > Bug 1265615 - crash in SkPath::isRectContour
> > > > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1265615
> > > >
> > > > As I was interested in what kind of configurations that are, I opened:
> > > > https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/signature/?product=Firefox=SkPath%3A%3AisRectContour
> > > >
> > > > ...here I get just 1 crash in the last 7 days with FF49.0a1 and 
> > > > "Process Type = content".
> > > >
> > > > So what is "Process Type = content" in "mozilla crash reports"?
> > > 
> > > It means that when using electrolysis/e10s/"process separation for web 
> > > content", the process running/displaying (ish) web content crashed 
> > > (rather than Firefox as a whole crashing). It has nothing to do with 
> > > SSE(2).
> > > 
> > > > And how I can have a look on the crash reports of e.g. the last ~30 
> > > > days?
> > > 
> > > There are too many for looking at all crash reports to be a meaningful 
> > > operation. If you mean all crash reports with that signature,
> > > 
> > > https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/report/list?product=Firefox_unit=days_value=28=SkPath%3A%3AisRectContour
> > > 
> > > ~ Gijs
> > 
> > OK, my fault!
> > No native speaker and I read "processOR type"... ^^
> > Processor is that what I'm was looking for...
> > 
> > So I had a look at...
> > https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/report/list?product=Firefox_unit=days_value=28=SkPath%3A%3AisRectContour
> > 
> > ...then "View ALL products and versions for this signature."...
> > https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/report/list?date=2016-05-19_unit=days_value=28=SkPath%3A%3AisRectContour
> > 
> > ...and then had on this huge amount of two reports a look... ;-)
> > https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/report/list?date=2016-05-19_unit=days_value=28=SkPath%3A%3AisRectContour#tab-reports
> > 
> > I see:
> > Build Architecture Info = AuthenticAMD family 6 model 4 stepping 2 | 1
> > Build Architecture Info = GenuineIntel family 6 model 15 stepping 13 | 2
> > 
> > ...what IMHO means that the user have just deactivated SSE2-Support in 
> > BIOS...
> 
> Question is:
> If Mozilla will really "Backout MSVC 2015 from aurora" because 2 people are 
> not able to configure there PCs right in BIOS ???
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1270664

OK, seems to be not 100% correct!

Build Architecture Info = AuthenticAMD family 6 model 4 stepping 2 | 1
Seems to be:
Athlon 1200 (Thunderbird)
AMD Name String: AMD Athlon(tm) Processor
Features: FPU TSC CX8 CMOV FXSR MMX
http://www.masmforum.com/board/index.php?PHPSESSID=8d46cd4ecb1688be429ab49694ec53e6=1909.5;wap2
(I'm wonder that this system can run Win7!)

And...
Build Architecture Info = GenuineIntel family 6 model 15 stepping 13 | 2
Seems to be somethink like this:
Processor Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU 5130 @ 2.00GHz @ 2.00 GHz
2 Processors, 4 Threads
Processor ID GenuineIntel Family 6 Model 15 Stepping 6
L1 Instruction Cache 32.0 KB x 2
L1 Data Cache 32.0 KB x 2
L2 Cache 4.00 MB
L3 Cache 0.00 B
Memory 3.86 GB
http://www1.hft-leipzig.de/s114122/geekbenchscore.html
(With WinXP.)
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Re: What is "Process Type = content" in "mozilla crash reports"?

[Tobias B. Besemer]

Am Donnerstag, 19. Mai 2016 19:53:40 UTC+2 schrieb Tobias B. Besemer:
> Am Donnerstag, 19. Mai 2016 17:46:58 UTC+2 schrieb Gijs Kruitbosch:
> > On 19/05/2016 16:35, Tobias B. Besemer wrote:
> > > Due to the upcoming requirement of SSE2 to run Firefox that is discussed 
> > > here:
> > > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mozilla.dev.platform/v0QAe2olnH0
> > >
> > > ...I had a look on...
> > > Bug 1271755 - [meta] Require SSE2 to run Firefox
> > > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1271755
> > >
> > > ...then on...
> > > Bug 1270664 - Backout MSVC 2015 from aurora
> > > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1270664
> > >
> > > ...and then the crash that comes up on non-SSE2-Systems...
> > > Bug 1265615 - crash in SkPath::isRectContour
> > > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1265615
> > >
> > > As I was interested in what kind of configurations that are, I opened:
> > > https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/signature/?product=Firefox=SkPath%3A%3AisRectContour
> > >
> > > ...here I get just 1 crash in the last 7 days with FF49.0a1 and "Process 
> > > Type = content".
> > >
> > > So what is "Process Type = content" in "mozilla crash reports"?
> > 
> > It means that when using electrolysis/e10s/"process separation for web 
> > content", the process running/displaying (ish) web content crashed 
> > (rather than Firefox as a whole crashing). It has nothing to do with SSE(2).
> > 
> > > And how I can have a look on the crash reports of e.g. the last ~30 days?
> > 
> > There are too many for looking at all crash reports to be a meaningful 
> > operation. If you mean all crash reports with that signature,
> > 
> > https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/report/list?product=Firefox_unit=days_value=28=SkPath%3A%3AisRectContour
> > 
> > ~ Gijs
> 
> OK, my fault!
> No native speaker and I read "processOR type"... ^^
> Processor is that what I'm was looking for...
> 
> So I had a look at...
> https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/report/list?product=Firefox_unit=days_value=28=SkPath%3A%3AisRectContour
> 
> ...then "View ALL products and versions for this signature."...
> https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/report/list?date=2016-05-19_unit=days_value=28=SkPath%3A%3AisRectContour
> 
> ...and then had on this huge amount of two reports a look... ;-)
> https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/report/list?date=2016-05-19_unit=days_value=28=SkPath%3A%3AisRectContour#tab-reports
> 
> I see:
> Build Architecture Info = AuthenticAMD family 6 model 4 stepping 2 | 1
> Build Architecture Info = GenuineIntel family 6 model 15 stepping 13 | 2
> 
> ...what IMHO means that the user have just deactivated SSE2-Support in BIOS...

Question is:
If Mozilla will really "Backout MSVC 2015 from aurora" because 2 people are not 
able to configure there PCs right in BIOS ???
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1270664
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Re: What is "Process Type = content" in "mozilla crash reports"?

[Tobias B. Besemer]

Am Donnerstag, 19. Mai 2016 17:46:58 UTC+2 schrieb Gijs Kruitbosch:
> On 19/05/2016 16:35, Tobias B. Besemer wrote:
> > Due to the upcoming requirement of SSE2 to run Firefox that is discussed 
> > here:
> > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mozilla.dev.platform/v0QAe2olnH0
> >
> > ...I had a look on...
> > Bug 1271755 - [meta] Require SSE2 to run Firefox
> > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1271755
> >
> > ...then on...
> > Bug 1270664 - Backout MSVC 2015 from aurora
> > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1270664
> >
> > ...and then the crash that comes up on non-SSE2-Systems...
> > Bug 1265615 - crash in SkPath::isRectContour
> > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1265615
> >
> > As I was interested in what kind of configurations that are, I opened:
> > https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/signature/?product=Firefox=SkPath%3A%3AisRectContour
> >
> > ...here I get just 1 crash in the last 7 days with FF49.0a1 and "Process 
> > Type = content".
> >
> > So what is "Process Type = content" in "mozilla crash reports"?
> 
> It means that when using electrolysis/e10s/"process separation for web 
> content", the process running/displaying (ish) web content crashed 
> (rather than Firefox as a whole crashing). It has nothing to do with SSE(2).
> 
> > And how I can have a look on the crash reports of e.g. the last ~30 days?
> 
> There are too many for looking at all crash reports to be a meaningful 
> operation. If you mean all crash reports with that signature,
> 
> https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/report/list?product=Firefox_unit=days_value=28=SkPath%3A%3AisRectContour
> 
> ~ Gijs

OK, my fault!
No native speaker and I read "processOR type"... ^^
Processor is that what I'm was looking for...

So I had a look at...
https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/report/list?product=Firefox_unit=days_value=28=SkPath%3A%3AisRectContour

...then "View ALL products and versions for this signature."...
https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/report/list?date=2016-05-19_unit=days_value=28=SkPath%3A%3AisRectContour

...and then had on this huge amount of two reports a look... ;-)
https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/report/list?date=2016-05-19_unit=days_value=28=SkPath%3A%3AisRectContour#tab-reports

I see:
Build Architecture Info = AuthenticAMD family 6 model 4 stepping 2 | 1
Build Architecture Info = GenuineIntel family 6 model 15 stepping 13 | 2

...what IMHO means that the user have just deactivated SSE2-Support in BIOS...
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Suggestion: Class or API to check pre-requirements of Firefox

[Tobias B. Besemer]

As I'm lazy, plz read here:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1271762
;-)

(It's really not much to read in the bug!)
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What is "Process Type = content" in "mozilla crash reports"?

[Tobias B. Besemer]

Due to the upcoming requirement of SSE2 to run Firefox that is discussed here:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mozilla.dev.platform/v0QAe2olnH0

...I had a look on...
Bug 1271755 - [meta] Require SSE2 to run Firefox
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1271755

...then on...
Bug 1270664 - Backout MSVC 2015 from aurora
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1270664

...and then the crash that comes up on non-SSE2-Systems...
Bug 1265615 - crash in SkPath::isRectContour
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1265615

As I was interested in what kind of configurations that are, I opened:
https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/signature/?product=Firefox=SkPath%3A%3AisRectContour

...here I get just 1 crash in the last 7 days with FF49.0a1 and "Process Type = 
content".

So what is "Process Type = content" in "mozilla crash reports"?
And how I can have a look on the crash reports of e.g. the last ~30 days?
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Re: Requiring SSE2 on all 32-bit x86 OSs (was: Re: Reverting to VS2013 on central and aurora)

[Tobias B. Besemer]

Am Mittwoch, 18. Mai 2016 20:28:01 UTC+2 schrieb Tobias B. Besemer:
> > If we're going to accidentally keep introducing bugs where non-SSE2 CPUs
> > crash, it would be far better to add a runtime check at the beginning of
> > main() and error out, than to have a steady trickle of bug reports about
> > crashes on illegal instructions which end up being marked INVALID.
> 
> Think, if it would be possible that FF brings at the start a error msg that 
> non-SSE2 is no more supported if there is no support recognized, that would 
> be IMHO great!
> 
> Else, I guess that Mozilla can carefully stop support non-SSE2 systems and 
> cloth at the beginning warm because of all the negative feedback that will 
> come to it... ;-)

Idea: Try to implement a check and error msg already in FF47 and look if 
someone starts to scream. If yes, a FF47.0.1 can be easily shipped with the 
check and error msg removed again. If no, the devs can start to remove the old 
code step-by-step.
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Re: Requiring SSE2 on all 32-bit x86 OSs (was: Re: Reverting to VS2013 on central and aurora)

[Tobias B. Besemer]

> If we're going to accidentally keep introducing bugs where non-SSE2 CPUs
> crash, it would be far better to add a runtime check at the beginning of
> main() and error out, than to have a steady trickle of bug reports about
> crashes on illegal instructions which end up being marked INVALID.

Think, if it would be possible that FF brings at the start a error msg that 
non-SSE2 is no more supported if there is no support recognized, that would be 
IMHO great!

Else, I guess that Mozilla can carefully stop support non-SSE2 systems and 
cloth at the beginning warm because of all the negative feedback that will come 
to it... ;-)
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Re: Requiring SSE2 on all 32-bit x86 OSs (was: Re: Reverting to VS2013 on central and aurora)

[Tobias B. Besemer]

Am Mittwoch, 18. Mai 2016 16:52:25 UTC+2 schrieb Boris Zbarsky:
> On 5/18/16 7:38 AM, Tobias B. Besemer wrote:
> > Is this really a discussion if Firefox should support CPUs older then 13-15 
> > years ???
> 
> More or less, yes.
> 
> > I can't imagine any scenario were a user needs to run a Pentium III with 
> > GUI and a browser on it...
> 
> There were AMD CPUs newer than that without SSE2.
> 
> But more importantly, we have concrete evidence, via crash-stats, that 
> such users exist, in small amounts.  So the theoretical "I can't imagine 
> why anyone would do it" argument runs into the experimental "these 
> people clearly exist" issue.
> 
> -Boris

I wrote 13-15 years, because Intel did it 15 years ago and AMD 13 years ago.

Crash-stats with FF >40?

There was ~1 year ago a request at Avira to support non-SSE2 again with there 
scanner again...
AFAIKR I wrote to it, that the user should have a look into BIOS if there is a 
SSE2 support that can be turned on, because I can imagine that this was a long 
time optional and e.g. after a BIOS-Reset it was turned off... Think there came 
never any answer back in the Feedback-Community...

Is it possible in the stats to see, if the systems _should_ support it?
(E.g. what kind of CPU is used by the system...)
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Re: Requiring SSE2 on all 32-bit x86 OSs (was: Re: Reverting to VS2013 on central and aurora)

[Tobias B. Besemer]

Am Mittwoch, 18. Mai 2016 13:56:14 UTC+2 schrieb Tobias B. Besemer:
> Am Mittwoch, 18. Mai 2016 13:38:58 UTC+2 schrieb Tobias B. Besemer:
> > N00b question:
> > Is this really a discussion if Firefox should support CPUs older then 13-15 
> > years ???
> > 
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSE2
> > 
> > I can't imagine any scenario were a user needs to run a Pentium III with 
> > GUI and a browser on it...
> > ...would mean that the system not only runs not e.g. as a proxy where the 
> > user have no normal desktop and a browser on it...
> > ...would also mean that the user can't exchange the hardware e.g. by a ~150 
> > dollar new Mini-PC...
> > ...and that the user have to run all together with a system with 
> > 512MB-1.5GB mem...
> > 
> > https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071212213049AAd5SbG
> 
> ...would also mean that the user can't stay in future on FF46 because:
> a.) He needs the newest web-technologies not yet implemented in FF46.
> b.) He browse not only on his own HD, a Intranet, or save pages and so he 
> needs to keep his FF up-to-date against the newest found security holes.

Motherboards to this CPUs normally should only support IDE HDs...
I had a quick look in my storage and the biggest IDE HD I found was a WD with 
80GB and a production date of 2003-03-12...
...maybe I had a 150GB HD in the past too, but my first SATA had 250GB...
...don't know if the IDE would still run...
...and when, how long... :D
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Re: Requiring SSE2 on all 32-bit x86 OSs (was: Re: Reverting to VS2013 on central and aurora)

[Tobias B. Besemer]

Am Mittwoch, 18. Mai 2016 13:38:58 UTC+2 schrieb Tobias B. Besemer:
> N00b question:
> Is this really a discussion if Firefox should support CPUs older then 13-15 
> years ???
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSE2
> 
> I can't imagine any scenario were a user needs to run a Pentium III with GUI 
> and a browser on it...
> ...would mean that the system not only runs not e.g. as a proxy where the 
> user have no normal desktop and a browser on it...
> ...would also mean that the user can't exchange the hardware e.g. by a ~150 
> dollar new Mini-PC...
> ...and that the user have to run all together with a system with 512MB-1.5GB 
> mem...
> 
> https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071212213049AAd5SbG

...would also mean that the user can't stay in future on FF46 because:
a.) He needs the newest web-technologies not yet implemented in FF46.
b.) He browse not only on his own HD, a Intranet, or save pages and so he needs 
to keep his FF up-to-date against the newest found security holes.
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Re: Requiring SSE2 on all 32-bit x86 OSs (was: Re: Reverting to VS2013 on central and aurora)

[Tobias B. Besemer]

N00b question:
Is this really a discussion if Firefox should support CPUs older then 13-15 
years ???

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSE2

I can't imagine any scenario were a user needs to run a Pentium III with GUI 
and a browser on it...
...would mean that the system not only runs not e.g. as a proxy where the user 
have no normal desktop and a browser on it...
...would also mean that the user can't exchange the hardware e.g. by a ~150 
dollar new Mini-PC...
...and that the user have to run all together with a system with 512MB-1.5GB 
mem...

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071212213049AAd5SbG
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Suggestion: Create at least a FB Group for Beta Testers

[Tobias B. Besemer]

Hi all!

Have this in mind for a long time...
...and mentioned it already somehow...

I think it would bring good success/feedback if Mozilla creates at least a FB 
Group for Beta Testers.

Younger people use nowadays a lot Facebook to connect and communicate...
There are thousands of new geeks that should get convinced that Firefox is the 
browser they should use and suggest to there friends...
IMHO this is the place to build up the next generation of the community that 
build Firefox!
FB Groups IMHO are a good thing to promote the spirit of Mozilla, use the 
network to build better social contacts between Mozillians, test the browser on 
a real high-end webpage, give the new geeks an easy way to get connected to the 
community and an easy way to report things and ask questions without filling 
each time a bug or have to use mailing-lists and/or Google Groups that make 
things much more complicated and time-expensive then a social network group.

I think e.g. the beta tester community would be a good group to test if my 
statements to this are true or not and which benefits and problems this will 
bring...


Greets, Tobias.

Btw.: Seems Firefox keeps the performance much better over a long run-time in 
the last days... Thx to all that have helped!
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Re: Ignoring viewpoints of non-Mozilla-employees can't be the way to go for a OSS project!

[Tobias B. Besemer]

K, I wait till Mozilla hit the bottom because marking my opinions to problems 
as "Offtopic" and removing my rights because I get p*ssed that my thinking 
about it is "off topic" is getting to much for me!

But I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't take anymore long till Mozilla is on the 
ground...

Seems Mozilla still don't get it, that Windows have a market share from around 
90%...
https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10=0

...while OS X have <10%...
http://gs.statcounter.com/#desktop-os-ww-monthly-201504-201604

And Firefox have now - depending on the sources you watch - <9% market share...
...while Google Chrome (with some parts be the same as FF and have started much 
later) is now on ~57%...
https://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
http://gs.statcounter.com/
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

...the bottom seems no more far, because - even if geeks try to help - FF lose 
~2% market share per year...
http://www.sitepoint.com/browser-trends-august-2015-chrome-exceeds-50/

...and have lost - even with the help of geeks - in the last 2,5 years ~8%...
https://www.netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qprid=1=0=2014=3=Y

...even if FF supports much more features/standard as every browser else...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_web_browsers
http://www.webdevout.net/browser-support
https://html5test.com/

Maybe some people will get some enlightenment, if they read this:
http://thenextweb.com/entrepreneur/2015/06/24/9-questions-ask-softwares-beta-testers/
Especially point 9. ...


Greets, Tobias.

P.S.: And happy programming for yourself!
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Re: Ignoring viewpoints of non-Mozilla-employees can't be the way to go for a OSS project!

[Tobias B. Besemer]

Am Montag, 9. Mai 2016 20:54:44 UTC+2 schrieb Kyle Huey:
> Because you are *still* (as of 10 minutes ago) removing the off-topic
> labels that were applied to clearly off-topic comments I have temporarily
> removed your editbugs permissions.
> 
> - Kyle
> 
> On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Tobias B. Besemer <
> tobias.bese...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Hi!
> >
> > Ignoring viewpoints of non-Mozilla-employees can't be the way to go for a
> > OSS Project!
> > The same mistake made Oracle with OpenOffice!
> > Now the project is almost death!
> > Think Mozilla should find his way back to his roots!
> > Would be nice, if some people think about it!
> >
> > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1114647
> > I removed the marker that my comments are "Offtopic" ... (because I write
> > my viewpoint to this topic!)
> > ...and re-opened my attachment!
> > Even if the employees are not interested how other OSS-Geeks see things
> > that belong to the integration for Mozilla Products into Windows, this
> > opinions of not-employees are anyway not "Offtopic", or "Spam"!
> >
> >
> > Greets, Tobias.
> > ___
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> > dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org
> > https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
> >

Yeah! This was the way Oracle was going, too...

Btw.: If Mozilla die, you lose your job, too! Think about it!
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Re: Ignoring viewpoints of non-Mozilla-employees can't be the way to go for a OSS project!

[Tobias B. Besemer]

Am Montag, 9. Mai 2016 20:33:11 UTC+2 schrieb Andrew McCreight:
> Thank you for opening a discussion thread rather than posting more in the
> bug.
> 
> On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Tobias B. Besemer wrote:
> 
> > Hi!
> >
> > Ignoring viewpoints of non-Mozilla-employees can't be the way to go for a
> > OSS Project!
> > The same mistake made Oracle with OpenOffice!
> > Now the project is almost death!
> > Think Mozilla should find his way back to his roots!
> > Would be nice, if some people think about it!
> >
> > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1114647
> > I removed the marker that my comments are "Offtopic" ... (because I write
> > my viewpoint to this topic!)
> > ...and re-opened my attachment!
> > Even if the employees are not interested how other OSS-Geeks see things
> > that belong to the integration for Mozilla Products into Windows, this
> > opinions of not-employees are anyway not "Offtopic", or "Spam"!
> >
> 
> I did not mark your posts off topic because you are not a Mozilla employee,
> I marked them off-topic (comments 144, 145, and 146) because they are not
> relevant to the technical discussion in the bug. The subject of the
> bug is "Rename
> the content process to something intelligible". Your posts are talking
> about extensions breaking with e10s, how you are fine with breaking
> Silverlight and Flash, and saying that Windows breaks software. None of
> these advance the state of the discussion in the bug.
> 
> Andrew
> 
> 
> >
> >
> > Greets, Tobias.
> > ___
> > dev-platform mailing list
> > dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org
> > https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
> >

You should read the complete bug again!
Above were a lot of comments why it is OK or not to break things or rename 
files or not!
So were is really the difference then that I'm not a employee 
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Re: Ignoring viewpoints of non-Mozilla-employees can't be the way to go for a OSS project!

[Tobias B. Besemer]

Same belongs to bug 1219672!
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1219672

If Mozilla still don't know that I sometimes give a rant, if thing go really 
wrong, but on the other side my rants were the reasons in the last 2,5 years, 
that Firfox was getting on Windows much better again, then something at Mozilla 
goes really wrong!

Btw.: Seems I and others are still to quit! Firefox is still losing market 
share! And there are reasons for it! Ignore them doesn't help!
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
https://www.netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qprid=1=0=2014=3=Y
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Ignoring viewpoints of non-Mozilla-employees can't be the way to go for a OSS project!

[Tobias B. Besemer]

Hi!

Ignoring viewpoints of non-Mozilla-employees can't be the way to go for a OSS 
Project!
The same mistake made Oracle with OpenOffice!
Now the project is almost death!
Think Mozilla should find his way back to his roots!
Would be nice, if some people think about it!

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1114647
I removed the marker that my comments are "Offtopic" ... (because I write my 
viewpoint to this topic!)
...and re-opened my attachment!
Even if the employees are not interested how other OSS-Geeks see things that 
belong to the integration for Mozilla Products into Windows, this opinions of 
not-employees are anyway not "Offtopic", or "Spam"!


Greets, Tobias.
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Update of "removed-files"?

[Tobias B. Besemer]

Hi!

In the program folder of FF by Windows there is a file called "removed-files"...
This file includes a list with files (rules) that should be removed...
What's about updating this?
I see a lot of (old) files and folders in the profile folders that should be 
IMHO removed to clean up the profiles from old garbage...

Here are some examples:
- c:\Users\Administrator\AppData\Local\Mozilla\Firefox\firefox\
Seems to be a mistake by a old install?

- 
c:\Users\Administrator\AppData\Local\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\zypzyju5.default\urlclassifier.pset
A really old files that was replaced with a new file with a other extension.

- 
c:\Users\Administrator\AppData\Local\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\zypzyju5.default\urlclassifier3.sqlite
The new files of the file above, but only in one of my profile folders... So 
why?

- 
c:\Users\Administrator\AppData\Local\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\zypzyju5.default\chrome_debugger_profile\
Also only in one of my profiles... Should be kept?

- 
c:\Users\Administrator\AppData\Local\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\zypzyju5.default\safebrowsing\test-*.*
Gets still daily updated but there are also mozstd-*.* and goog-*.* files...

- c:\Users\Administrator\AppData\LocalLow\Mozilla\
Created by mistake by a old installer? Gets never used...

- c:\Users\Administrator\AppData\Roaming\Mozilla\Firefox\Crash 
Reports\InstallTime*
Every (daily) update creates a new file... Over time the user (tester) have 
hundreds of them in his folder...

- I see in my profile folders under "Roaming" a lot of other (really) old files 
getting no more used...

- There exist also (really) old extensions in the profiles like the "Update 
Channel Extension" that user should use no more... Is there maybe a solution 
possible that a extension developer can mark his old extension in AMO as 
"should be deinstalled" (with maybe a list of data files that should be deleted 
too)?

Guess that every files that is for FF Versions older then 1-2 years can be 
deleted because this old browsers are no more save, the update/upgarde is for 
free and the user should really update his FF...
(Whats about a message that when a FF starts on a system that is older then 
1-2years that says the user he should really upgrade is FF for free?)


Greets, Tobias.
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How to change the default profile in the profile manager?

[Tobias B. Besemer]

Hi!

I resorted/renamed my profile folders...
Now, when I start the Developer Edition with the profile manager, FF creates a 
new entry with "dev-edition-default" and the according folders in 
\Roaming\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\ and \Local\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\ (Win7).
How to prevent this and maybe select a other profile the profile manager should 
point to as default?

Greets, Tobias.
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Re: A lot of problems with Firefox Sync...

[Tobias B. Besemer]

Am Donnerstag, 24. März 2016 01:06:22 UTC+1 schrieb Tobias B. Besemer:
> Am Freitag, 18. März 2016 14:45:45 UTC+1 schrieb Gijs Kruitbosch:
> > On 18/03/2016 11:47, Tobias B. Besemer wrote:
> > > If I use my main profile in Aurora, it updates FF immediately to the 
> > > Nightly Version because the update channel is saved in the profile!
> > >
> > > Is this really necessary/right this way?
> > >
> > > I mean: Why not save the update channel in the FF installation (folder) 
> > > ???
> > >
> > > Saving the update channel in the profiles makes it impossible to use them 
> > > with a older/other version of FF!
> > > If somebody do it anyway (by mistake) it f*cks up his installation!
> > 
> > The default value of all prefs is stored in the installation. Custom 
> > values are stored in your profile. Firefox's core code does not save 
> > custom values for the update channel pref at any time:
> > 
> > https://dxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/search?q=update.channel+-path%3Ab2g+-path%3Amozconfig+-path%3Atest+-path%3A.sh+-path%3A.nsi+-channelid=false=false
> > 
> > The logical conclusion being, if there is a custom value for this 
> > preference in your profile, either you put it there through about:config 
> > or by editing prefs.js, or some add-on did this.
> > 
> > ~ Gijs
> 
> Thx!
> 
> I had a lock...
> 
> ...but this are the first lines of my prefs.js in the user dir:
> user_pref("accessibility.typeaheadfind.flashBar", 0);
> user_pref("app.update.lastUpdateTime.addon-background-update-timer", 
> 1458736348);
> user_pref("app.update.lastUpdateTime.background-update-timer", 1458772121);
> user_pref("app.update.lastUpdateTime.blocklist-background-update-timer", 
> 1458736708);
> user_pref("app.update.lastUpdateTime.browser-cleanup-thumbnails", 1458771231);
> user_pref("app.update.lastUpdateTime.experiments-update-timer", 1458736588);
> user_pref("app.update.lastUpdateTime.microsummary-generator-update-timer", 
> 1346768798);
> user_pref("app.update.lastUpdateTime.search-engine-update-timer", 1458757841);
> user_pref("app.update.lastUpdateTime.xpi-signature-verification", 1458736468);
> user_pref("app.update.migrated.updateDir", true);
> user_pref("avira.safe_search.installed", "[\"safesearchplus\"]");
> 
> The only prefs with a nightly channel are:
> user_pref("extensions.checkCompatibility.37.0a", true);
> user_pref("extensions.checkCompatibility.nightly", true);
> user_pref("extensions.updatechannel.channel", "nightly");
> user_pref("extensions.updatechan...@blueprintit.co.uk.install-event-fired", 
> true);
> 
> In c:\Program Files\Firefox Developer Edition\ ...
> is the file update-settings.ini with:
> [Settings]
> ACCEPTED_MAR_CHANNEL_IDS=firefox-mozilla-aurora
> 
> And in \defaults\pref\channel-prefs.js is:
> pref("app.update.channel", "aurora");
> 
> And it updates to nightly anyway immediately!


Ah! OK!

Seems this is from the "Update Channel Selector"-Extension and is used for UPD:
user_pref("extensions.updatechannel.channel", "nightly");
user_pref("extensions.updatechan...@blueprintit.co.uk.install-event-fired", 
true);

I have deactivated this Add-on now...

But what is this:
user_pref("extensions.checkCompatibility.37.0a", true);
user_pref("extensions.checkCompatibility.nightly", true);
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Re: A lot of problems with Firefox Sync...

[Tobias B. Besemer]

Am Freitag, 18. März 2016 14:45:45 UTC+1 schrieb Gijs Kruitbosch:
> On 18/03/2016 11:47, Tobias B. Besemer wrote:
> > If I use my main profile in Aurora, it updates FF immediately to the 
> > Nightly Version because the update channel is saved in the profile!
> >
> > Is this really necessary/right this way?
> >
> > I mean: Why not save the update channel in the FF installation (folder) ???
> >
> > Saving the update channel in the profiles makes it impossible to use them 
> > with a older/other version of FF!
> > If somebody do it anyway (by mistake) it f*cks up his installation!
> 
> The default value of all prefs is stored in the installation. Custom 
> values are stored in your profile. Firefox's core code does not save 
> custom values for the update channel pref at any time:
> 
> https://dxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/search?q=update.channel+-path%3Ab2g+-path%3Amozconfig+-path%3Atest+-path%3A.sh+-path%3A.nsi+-channelid=false=false
> 
> The logical conclusion being, if there is a custom value for this 
> preference in your profile, either you put it there through about:config 
> or by editing prefs.js, or some add-on did this.
> 
> ~ Gijs

Thx!

I had a lock...

...but this are the first lines of my prefs.js in the user dir:
user_pref("accessibility.typeaheadfind.flashBar", 0);
user_pref("app.update.lastUpdateTime.addon-background-update-timer", 
1458736348);
user_pref("app.update.lastUpdateTime.background-update-timer", 1458772121);
user_pref("app.update.lastUpdateTime.blocklist-background-update-timer", 
1458736708);
user_pref("app.update.lastUpdateTime.browser-cleanup-thumbnails", 1458771231);
user_pref("app.update.lastUpdateTime.experiments-update-timer", 1458736588);
user_pref("app.update.lastUpdateTime.microsummary-generator-update-timer", 
1346768798);
user_pref("app.update.lastUpdateTime.search-engine-update-timer", 1458757841);
user_pref("app.update.lastUpdateTime.xpi-signature-verification", 1458736468);
user_pref("app.update.migrated.updateDir", true);
user_pref("avira.safe_search.installed", "[\"safesearchplus\"]");

The only prefs with a nightly channel are:
user_pref("extensions.checkCompatibility.37.0a", true);
user_pref("extensions.checkCompatibility.nightly", true);
user_pref("extensions.updatechannel.channel", "nightly");
user_pref("extensions.updatechan...@blueprintit.co.uk.install-event-fired", 
true);

In c:\Program Files\Firefox Developer Edition\ ...
is the file update-settings.ini with:
[Settings]
ACCEPTED_MAR_CHANNEL_IDS=firefox-mozilla-aurora

And in \defaults\pref\channel-prefs.js is:
pref("app.update.channel", "aurora");

And it updates to nightly anyway immediately!
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Re: Misunderstood the Assigned at bugs! Sorry !!!

[Tobias B. Besemer]

OK, to reopen this discussion ...

I suggested in Bug 1151371 to activate the status IN_PROGRESS in bmo and use 
this status for bugs that are in progress (patch in work) and that 
everybody use the status applied in future only as taken or as in the 
to-dos-list like the others do.
My arguments for this and reasons can be found in the bug.
Feedback welcome.

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1151371
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Font problem in FF34a2 with CSS and fallback

[Tobias B. Besemer]

Hi,

I analyzed some private pages because of a font problem with FF34a2.
It was a problem with the font Verdana.
Seems the font was crashed in my Win7 64bit.

See:
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-desktop/verdana-ttf-font-missing-from-windows-7/33da1d97-8ebd-489c-83c5-c8359f9d3511
http://superuser.com/questions/234566/how-do-i-find-and-activate-missing-fonts-in-windows-7

But I hadn't the change to restart and test it, because I tested a 
Anti-Virus-Scanner and the scan was running till now ... :D

The problem appeared e.g. when the font was specified in a CSS-File like this:
body, form, th, td {
font-family: Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;

And also the fall-back to the font Arial didn't worked!

But in this example (with the font in the HTML-File) it worked !!!
http://de.selfhtml.org/css/eigenschaften/anzeige/font_family.htm
(And there is no fall-back!)

So my first questions were:
- Why I had no problems with the second font ???
- Is it possible to check if the font really works or if it is just wrong 
registered in the system ???
- And - because it seems there are more problems with Verdana - is it possible 
to ship a own Verdana with FF ???

I found e.g. this about the problems:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=Verdanalist_id=11382200
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=38t=298766

But today I got even more confused, because I updated to FF35a2 and now the 
fall-back seems to work ... ???


Greets, Tobias (BesTo).
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Hanging Script / Debug Script

[Tobias B. Besemer]

I saw the new button Debug Script while I had a hanging script ... and tested 
it ...

So here what I recognized:
It is for me now not clear if the script gets stopped, or it is keeping running 
... I think it keeps running, right?
Also I missing a log to it in the Browser Console ... I think this would be 
good. (Like if I stop it ...)

But I saw the following logs in the Browser Console:
Key event not available on some keyboard layouts: key=e modifiers=accel alt 
debugger.xul
Key event not available on some keyboard layouts: key=v modifiers=accel alt 
debugger.xul
Key event not available on some keyboard layouts: key=f modifiers=accel alt 
debugger.xul
Evaluation has thrown for: _string_table debugger-panes.js:1911
this.sink is null network-monitor.js:177

And there is a time-out for hanging scripts, right?
I think it should be shorter ...

-Tobias.
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Re: Improving Session Restore Experience (was Re: Reordering opened windows)

[Tobias B. Besemer]

This would be my suggestion (if possible):

1. Read sessionstore.js;

2. Open first window, don't reload tabs, restore size on the right screen if 
multi-screen;

3. For each window in sessionstore.js, in the order in which the windows
have been opened initially, trigger window opening;

4. After all windows are open, select them in the order they were last 
selected, last selected window as last and  restore max. window if it was (on 
the right screen), restore min. window if it was;

5. Now restore tabs in windows in order the windows where opened last, last 
selected window as first, then back (maybe manage resources like CPU and 
bandwidth via focus);

6. Try to update the preview in the taskbar without make windows big again.


This should _really_ restore the FF Session as it was before.


Tobias.
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Re: Reordering opened windows

[Tobias B. Besemer]

The update of the taskbar preview (if this is possible) should normally happen 
after the tabs (the first, visible one) of a window are reloaded - not all 
previews at the end.

IMHO the SessonStore should save a Time-Stamp to each window that gets updated 
each time the window gets focus.

This Time-Stamp reflects the history the windows had focus.

On a restore the prog should always re-read this Time-Stamps.
So if the user gives immediately after the session-restore have started a other 
window then that that have the focus before the crash the focus, then this 
windows have the newest Time-Stamp and gets loaded first.
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Re: Misunderstood the Assigned at bugs! Sorry !!!

[Tobias B. Besemer]

Am Mittwoch, 9. Juli 2014 03:51:32 UTC+2 schrieb Tobias B. Besemer:
 I tried to help and clean up a bit Bugzilla with updating the Target 
 Milestone to a Milestone that get still developed ...

I did this:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?f1=OPf0=OPclassification=Componentsemailtype1=exactf4=CPquery_format=advancedf3=CPbug_status=UNCONFIRMEDbug_status=NEWbug_status=ASSIGNEDbug_status=REOPENEDproduct=Coretarget_milestone=M1target_milestone=M2target_milestone=M3target_milestone=M4target_milestone=M5target_milestone=M6target_milestone=M7target_milestone=M8target_milestone=M9target_milestone=M10target_milestone=M11target_milestone=M12target_milestone=M13target_milestone=M14target_milestone=M15target_milestone=M16target_milestone=M17target_milestone=M18target_milestone=mozilla0.6target_milestone=mozilla0.8target_milestone=mozilla0.8.1target_milestone=mozilla0.9target_milestone=mozilla0.9.1target_milestone=mozilla0.9.2target_milestone=mozilla0.9.3target_milestone=mozilla0.9.4target_milestone=mozilla0.9.5target_milestone=mozilla0.9.6target_milestone=mozilla0.9.7target_milestone=mozilla0.9.8target_milestone=mozilla0.9.9target_milestone
 
=psm2.0target_milestone=psm2.1target_milestone=psm2.2target_milestone=psm2.3target_milestone=psm2.4target_milestone=mozilla1.0target_milestone=mozilla1.0.1target_milestone=mozilla1.0.2target_milestone=mozilla1.0.3target_milestone=mozilla1.1alphatarget_milestone=mozilla1.1betatarget_milestone=mozilla1.1finaltarget_milestone=mozilla1.2alphatarget_milestone=mozilla1.2betatarget_milestone=mozilla1.2finaltarget_milestone=mozilla1.3alphatarget_milestone=mozilla1.3betatarget_milestone=mozilla1.3finaltarget_milestone=mozilla1.4alphatarget_milestone=mozilla1.4betatarget_milestone=mozilla1.4finaltarget_milestone=mozilla1.5alphatarget_milestone=mozilla1.5betatarget_milestone=mozilla1.5finaltarget_milestone=mozilla1.6alphatarget_milestone=mozilla1.6betatarget_milestone=mozilla1.6finaltarget_milestone=mozilla1.7alphatarget_milestone=mozilla1.7betatarget_milestone=mozilla1.7finaltarget_milestone=mozilla1.8alpha1target_milestone=mozilla1.8alpha2target_milest
 
one=mozilla1.8alpha3target_milestone=mozilla1.8alpha4target_milestone=mozilla1.8alpha5target_milestone=mozilla1.8alpha6target_milestone=mozilla1.8beta1target_milestone=mozilla1.8beta2target_milestone=mozilla1.8beta3target_milestone=mozilla1.8beta4target_milestone=mozilla1.8beta5target_milestone=mozilla1.8rc1target_milestone=mozilla1.8rc2target_milestone=mozilla1.8finaltarget_milestone=mozilla1.8.1alpha1target_milestone=mozilla1.8.1alpha2target_milestone=mozilla1.8.1alpha3target_milestone=mozilla1.8.1beta1target_milestone=mozilla1.8.1beta2target_milestone=mozilla1.8.1target_milestone=mozilla1.9alpha1target_milestone=mozilla1.9alpha2target_milestone=mozilla1.9alpha3target_milestone=mozilla1.9alpha4target_milestone=mozilla1.9alpha5target_milestone=mozilla1.9alpha6target_milestone=mozilla1.9alpha7target_milestone=mozilla1.9alpha8target_milestone=mozilla1.9beta1target_milestone=mozilla1.9beta2target_milestone=mozilla1.9beta3target_milestone=mozilla1.9
 
beta4target_milestone=mozilla1.9beta5target_milestone=mozilla1.9target_milestone=mozilla1.9.1a1target_milestone=mozilla1.9.1a2target_milestone=mozilla1.9.1b1target_milestone=mozilla1.9.1b2target_milestone=mozilla1.9.1b3target_milestone=mozilla1.9.1b4target_milestone=mozilla1.9.1target_milestone=mozilla1.9.2a1target_milestone=mozilla1.9.2b1target_milestone=mozilla1.9.2target_milestone=mozilla1.9.3a1target_milestone=mozilla1.9.3a2target_milestone=mozilla1.9.3a3target_milestone=mozilla1.9.3a4target_milestone=mozilla1.9.3a5target_milestone=mozilla2.0b1target_milestone=mozilla2.0b2target_milestone=mozilla2.0b3target_milestone=mozilla2.0b4target_milestone=mozilla2.0b5target_milestone=mozilla2.0b6target_milestone=mozilla2.0b7target_milestone=mozilla2.0b8target_milestone=mozilla2.0b9target_milestone=mozilla2.0b10target_milestone=mozilla2.0b11target_milestone=mozilla2.0b12target_milestone=mozilla2.0target_milestone=mozilla5target_milestone=mozilla6tar
 
get_milestone=mozilla7target_milestone=mozilla8target_milestone=mozilla9target_milestone=mozilla10target_milestone=mozilla11target_milestone=mozilla12target_milestone=mozilla13target_milestone=mozilla14target_milestone=mozilla15target_milestone=mozilla16target_milestone=mozilla17target_milestone=mozilla18target_milestone=mozilla19target_milestone=mozilla20target_milestone=mozilla21target_milestone=mozilla22target_milestone=mozilla23target_milestone=mozilla25target_milestone=mozilla26target_milestone=mozilla27
;-)
And the set the Target Milestone to --- ...
But a lot of work ...
My next run would be Status = Assigned  Assigned To = nob...@mozilla.org 
...
After that I will check my own old bugs and my votes and then look what else in 
Bugzilla can be cleaned up ... maybe the same then above on Bugzilla or a 
other component ...
There exist no functions/scripts for this, right?

Tobias.
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Problems with the channels for FF TB

[Tobias B. Besemer]

Hi!

I was interested to test the new TB 31 Beta ...
... I'm now using 24.6.0 ...
... so I installed the extension Update Channel Selector 1.6 and switched to 
beta ...
When I now open the About I see that I be on beta, but TB says:
Thunderbird is up to date (I think there is a point at the end missing ???)

Also I'm using ATM FF 31 Beta ...
... and tried to try FF 32 Alpha ...
... used the extension Update Channel Selector 1.6 and switched to aurora 
...
... and get now a Update failed. Download the latest version. in the About.

I now restart FF to test if the UPD will be installed on a new-start of FF ...
... else I update the downloaded update ...
Should I fill one or two bugs for this ???


Tobias.
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Re: Firefox/Thunderbird and GRE/XRE/XULRunner

[Tobias B. Besemer]

OK, I understand.

The question was not just because of FF  TB to save just some bits ...
... it was also, because I think it will be in the future a good idea to let 
run Firefox OS Apps on other OSes like it is possible with MS Modern UI and 
WinRT ... also would there be a possibility for an alternative GUI like MS 
Modern UI e.g. for ReactOS ...

I see some files that should be possible to share e.g in C:\Program Files 
(x86)\Common Files\Mozilla\ ...
crashreporter.exe
crashreporter.ini
maintenanceservice.exe
maintenanceservice_installer.exe
plugin-container.exe
plugin-hang-ui.exe
updater.exe
updater.ini
And I'm sure there should exist some more ...


Greets, Tobias.


Am Dienstag, 8. Juli 2014 21:25:24 UTC+2 schrieb Joshua Cranmer :
 On 7/8/2014 1:51 PM, Tobias Besemer wrote:
 
  As far as I can remember, at the beginning when GRE was build, there was 
  the try that Firefox/Thunderbird/Mozilla-Suite will use this ...
 
 
 
  After Thunderbird is now back, a Mozilla Update Service exist and the 
  Crash Reporter needs to be re-done, but keeps a standalone App for startup 
  problems of Firefox/Thunderbird ...
 
  Is there a chance, that Firefox  Thunderbird will share files (runtime 
  environment / framework) together again on Windows ???
 
 That chance is basically 0, even if you assume to be using FF and TB on 
 
 the same version (say betas of both). The absolute minimum requirement 
 
 would be being able to share the same libxul, which both Firefox 
 
 developers and Thunderbird developers have had very little inclination 
 
 to work towards making possible.
 
 
 
 -- 
 
 Joshua Cranmer
 
 Thunderbird and DXR developer
 
 Source code archæologist
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Re: Firefox/Thunderbird and GRE/XRE/XULRunner

[Tobias B. Besemer]

What's about the idea (for the future) that all stable versions use XULRunner 
and beta, alpha  nightly use there own XUL ???
I think that in the stable versions of Firefox, Thunderbird  Firefox OS are 
the Gecko all the same ... ???
This would allow a GUI and running Firfox OS Apps on different platforms (like 
Windows, Linux, BSD) based on the stable Gecko that is also shipped with the 
newest Firefox OS ...
(Just as an idea for the future ...)

Greets, Tobias.


Am Dienstag, 8. Juli 2014 20:51:57 UTC+2 schrieb Tobias Besemer:
 As far as I can remember, at the beginning when GRE was build, there was the 
 try that Firefox/Thunderbird/Mozilla-Suite will use this ...
 
 
 
 After Thunderbird is now back, a Mozilla Update Service exist and the Crash 
 Reporter needs to be re-done, but keeps a standalone App for startup problems 
 of Firefox/Thunderbird ...
 
 Is there a chance, that Firefox  Thunderbird will share files (runtime 
 environment / framework) together again on Windows ???
 
 
 
 
 
 Greets, Tobias.
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Misunderstood the Assigned at bugs! Sorry !!!

[Tobias B. Besemer]

Hi!

Sorry, I have since some weeks the can-edit at Bugzilla and misunderstood the 
Assigned!
I tried to help and clean up a bit Bugzilla with updating the Target 
Milestone to a Milestone that get still developed ... and was thinking that 
when a bug is Assigned To, that then the Status have to be Assigned ...
I now realized, that this don't have to be !!!
Sorry, if I have hurt somebody with this !!!


Greets, Tobias.
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