MySQL 4.0 license change

[Paul Keogh]

The license for the MySQL 4.0 client API has changed from LGPL to GPL.

See

http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/01/16/03OPstrategic_1.html?developme
nt

for full details.

I guess this affects Kannel - my understanding is that linking GPL
libraries
under the current Kannel license is not possible. Am I correct ?

AW: MySQL 4.0 license change

[Jörg Pommnitz]

Can one circumvent the viral nature of the GPL by using the
dlopen functions?

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Paul Keogh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 21. Januar 2004 11:13
An: Kannel Development List (E-mail) (Kannel Development List (E-mail))
Betreff: MySQL 4.0 license change



The license for the MySQL 4.0 client API has changed from LGPL to GPL.

See

http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/01/16/03OPstrategic_1.html?developme
nt

for full details.

I guess this affects Kannel - my understanding is that linking GPL
libraries
under the current Kannel license is not possible. Am I correct ?

RE: MySQL 4.0 license change

[Jörg Pommnitz]

Does "neutral injection platform" mean something like ODBC?

Another option would be a clean room implementation of the MySQL 
libraries. After all, the protocol is well known, so how hard can 
it be to wrap this into a library?

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Stipe Tolj [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 21. Januar 2004 14:18
An: Jörg Pommnitz
Cc: Kannel Development List (E-mail) (Kannel Development List (E-mail))
Betreff: Re: AW: MySQL 4.0 license change


Jörg Pommnitz schrieb:
> 
> Can one circumvent the viral nature of the GPL by using the
> dlopen functions?

interesting question. Like using a neutral injection platform. ;)

Stipe

Re: MySQL 4.0 license change

[Alexander Malysh]

or even better, use postresql.

On Wednesday 21 January 2004 14:46, Jörg Pommnitz wrote:
> Does "neutral injection platform" mean something like ODBC?
>
> Another option would be a clean room implementation of the MySQL
> libraries. After all, the protocol is well known, so how hard can
> it be to wrap this into a library?
>
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Stipe Tolj [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 21. Januar 2004 14:18
> An: Jörg Pommnitz
> Cc: Kannel Development List (E-mail) (Kannel Development List (E-mail))
> Betreff: Re: AW: MySQL 4.0 license change
>
> Jörg Pommnitz schrieb:
> > Can one circumvent the viral nature of the GPL by using the
> > dlopen functions?
>
> interesting question. Like using a neutral injection platform. ;)
>
> Stipe

-- 
Best regards / Mit besten Grüßen aus Düsseldorf

Dipl.-Ing.
Alexander Malysh
___

Centrium GmbH
Vogelsanger Weg 80
40470 Düsseldorf

Fon: +49 (0211) 74 84 51 80
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See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

RE: MySQL 4.0 license change

[Jörg Pommnitz]

Thinking longer about this, I start to like the ODBC solution.

There is really no need to hardcode the DBMS into the code.

This is a bad tradition on Unix-like environments that other
environments (Java/JDBC, Windows/ODBC) have left behind for
years.

Unix ODBC is available from http://www.unixodbc.org/

Regards
  Joerg

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Alexander Malysh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 21. Januar 2004 14:52
An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Betreff: Re: MySQL 4.0 license change


or even better, use postresql.

Re: MySQL 4.0 license change

[Alexander Malysh]

you are highly welcome to implement odbc things for kannel ;)

but I can't undestand what is the problem with Kannel license (Apache/BSD 
like) and mysqlclient (GPL)?

see here:
http://www.mysql.com/products/licensing.html

Quote:
For those developing open source applications, the Open Source License allows 
you to offer your software under an open source / free software license to 
all who wish to use, modify, and distribute it freely. The Open Source 
License allows you to use the software at no charge under the condition that 
if you use MySQL in an application you redistribute, the complete source code 
for your application must be available and freely redistributable under 
reasonable conditions. MySQL AB bases its interpretation of the GPL on the 
Free Software Foundation's Frequently Asked Questions. For more information 
on MySQL's Open Source License, click here.

that is applicable for kannel project (kannel.org). But if a company will sale 
kannel based product as closed source and with mysql support , then it's fair 
to buy Commercial license (because a company makes money, none software is 
for free!)... 

On Wednesday 21 January 2004 15:01, Jörg Pommnitz wrote:
> Thinking longer about this, I start to like the ODBC solution.
>
> There is really no need to hardcode the DBMS into the code.
>
> This is a bad tradition on Unix-like environments that other
> environments (Java/JDBC, Windows/ODBC) have left behind for
> years.
>
> Unix ODBC is available from http://www.unixodbc.org/
>
> Regards
>   Joerg
>
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Alexander Malysh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 21. Januar 2004 14:52
> An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Betreff: Re: MySQL 4.0 license change
>
>
> or even better, use postresql.

-- 
Best regards / Mit besten Grüßen aus Düsseldorf

Dipl.-Ing.
Alexander Malysh
___

Centrium GmbH
Vogelsanger Weg 80
40470 Düsseldorf

Fon: +49 (0211) 74 84 51 80
Fax: +49 (0211) 277 49 109

email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: www.centrium.de
msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
icq: 98063111
___

Please avoid sending me Word, Excel or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Re: MySQL 4.0 license change

[Stipe Tolj]

Alexander Malysh schrieb:
> 
> or even better, use postresql.

that's an "additional" option IMO.

Stipe

mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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phone: +49.211.74845.0
fax: +49.211.74845.299

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Re: MySQL 4.0 license change

[Jörg Pommnitz]

The problem is that it is unclear whether Kannel can remain Apache/BSD-free
when it references the newer MySQL libraries. Avoiding the GPL question at
all is the safest way. If the GPL avoiding solution is technical superior
to the previous one (e.g. wider choice of DBMS), then this is even better.

Regards
  Joerg

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Alexander Malysh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 21. Januar 2004 15:10
An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Betreff: Re: MySQL 4.0 license change



you are highly welcome to implement odbc things for kannel ;)

but I can't undestand what is the problem with Kannel license (Apache/BSD 
like) and mysqlclient (GPL)?

Re: MySQL 4.0 license change

[Rory Campbell-Lange]

Yes, postgres is very, very good.

On 21/01/04, Alexander Malysh ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> or even better, use postresql.

> On Wednesday 21 January 2004 14:46, J?rg Pommnitz wrote:
> > Does "neutral injection platform" mean something like ODBC?
> >
> > Another option would be a clean room implementation of the MySQL
> > libraries. After all, the protocol is well known, so how hard can
> > it be to wrap this into a library?
-- 
Rory Campbell-Lange 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: MySQL 4.0 license change

[Stipe Tolj]

Rory Campbell-Lange schrieb:
> 
> Yes, postgres is very, very good.

ok, we have a proud volonteer here to code the postgresql support for
Kannel. 
Applause please!

We expect patches next week.

:

Stipe

mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Wapme Systems AG

Münsterstr. 248
40470 Düsseldorf, NRW, Germany

phone: +49.211.74845.0
fax: +49.211.74845.299

mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.wapme-systems.de/
---

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Re: MySQL 4.0 license change

[Rory Campbell-Lange]

I'd love to help. I really, really would. postgres is very powerful (I
do a lot of work in pl/pgsql) and has a BSD-style license. However I've
only got to page 10 in Kernigan & Ritchie!

So I'm just another happy Kannel user!

Kind regards,
Rory

On 22/01/04, Stipe Tolj ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Rory Campbell-Lange schrieb:
> > 
> > Yes, postgres is very, very good.
> 
> ok, we have a proud volonteer here to code the postgresql support for
> Kannel. 
> Applause please!
> 
> We expect patches next week.
-- 
Rory Campbell-Lange 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: MySQL 4.0 license change

[Stipe Tolj]

Rory Campbell-Lange schrieb:
> 
> I'd love to help. I really, really would. postgres is very powerful (I
> do a lot of work in pl/pgsql) and has a BSD-style license. However I've
> only got to page 10 in Kernigan & Ritchie!

as a motivation: I never read it... ;)

> So I'm just another happy Kannel user!

too much happy users and too less unhappy developers are a bad
combination on the exerlating time line. ;)

[was just kidding]

Stipe

mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Wapme Systems AG

Münsterstr. 248
40470 Düsseldorf, NRW, Germany

phone: +49.211.74845.0
fax: +49.211.74845.299

mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.wapme-systems.de/
---

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RE: MySQL 4.0 license change

[Stefan Cars]

Hi!

Is it clear however we can combine kannel (BSD) with MySQL (GPL) ??

/ Stefan 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stipe Tolj
Sent: den 22 januari 2004 12:29
To: Rory Campbell-Lange
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: MySQL 4.0 license change

Rory Campbell-Lange schrieb:
> 
> I'd love to help. I really, really would. postgres is very powerful (I 
> do a lot of work in pl/pgsql) and has a BSD-style license. However 
> I've only got to page 10 in Kernigan & Ritchie!

as a motivation: I never read it... ;)

> So I'm just another happy Kannel user!

too much happy users and too less unhappy developers are a bad combination on the 
exerlating time line. ;)

[was just kidding]

Stipe

mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
---
Wapme Systems AG

Münsterstr. 248
40470 Düsseldorf, NRW, Germany

phone: +49.211.74845.0
fax: +49.211.74845.299

mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.wapme-systems.de/
---

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Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (Cygwin)

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RE: MySQL 4.0 license change

[Aidan Kehoe]

 Ar an 22ú lá de mí 1, scríobh Stefan Cars :

 > Hi!
 > 
 > Is it clear however we can combine kannel (BSD) with MySQL (GPL) ??

Well, many (most, even--Debian stable still uses 3.23) people out there will
still be using pre-4.1 versions of MySQL, so there's no immediate need to do
anything drastic, besides perhaps saying "the MySQL support is not intended
to be used with the MySQL 4.1 client libraries." The FSF's advice (see
google.as/groups?selm=653b7547.0311222346.b4d9e98%40posting.google.com for a
possibly negative interpretation thereof) is that if you're linking against,
or intend only to link against a GPL'ed library, the resulting whole cannot
be made proprietary.

I think the OBDC idea is the best one I've seen. I know that opinion isn't
worth much without code to back it up.  

-- 
I don't care if it rains of freezes/'Long as I got my Plastic Jesus
Riding on the dashboard of my car.

Re: MySQL 4.0 license change

[Oded Arbel]

 × 21 × 2004, 16:18,  ×× ××× JÃrg Pommnitz:
> The problem is that it is unclear whether Kannel can remain Apache/BSD-free
> when it references the newer MySQL libraries. Avoiding the GPL question at
> all is the safest way. If the GPL avoiding solution is technical superior
> to the previous one (e.g. wider choice of DBMS), then this is even better.

Sorry to barge in, but I think you all miss the point. IANAL, but I've done 
some extendsive research into this and similar problems and currently my 
official standing (and you can quote me, but again - I'm not legally 
qualified to make such assertions so it's still your risk) regarding GPL is 
that it allows you to combine GPL code with any open source code using a "GPL 
compatible" license. that means as long as the Kannel license it GPL 
compliant it should be ok to link it directly against GPL code. 

GPL compatibility is cleary described in the GPL itself as any terms that do 
not limit the freedom of the user any more GPL does. it is widely accepted 
that a BSD Style and Apache Style licenses are less limiting then the GPL and 
are hence GPL compatible.

Also - as long as Kannel does not distribute mysql sources, and it can be 
compiled against 3.x versions of MySQL as well as 4.x, and is compatible with 
3.x libraries (are those LGPL ?) then Kannel people should not worry too much 
about it as the burden of license compatability lies with the person who 
distributes binary packages and MySQL explicitly allows you to use it in 
proprietry commercial environments under the GPL license as long as it is not 
re-ditributed or advertised.

-- 
Oded Arbel
m-Wise mobile solutions
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

+972-9-9581711 (116)
+972-67-340014

::..
gossip, n.:
Hearing something you like about someone you don't.

Re: MySQL 4.0 license change

[Raditha Dissanayake]

Hi,

The Problem here is that mysql does not intepret GPL in the same way 
that the rest of the world does.
I wrote to them asking for a client license and they insist i need to 
buy the server license and with it comes the client license. Do i need 
to buy a road so that i can drive a car?



Oded Arbel wrote:

 ? 21 ? 2004, 16:18

all is the safest way. If the GPL avoiding solution is technical superior
to the previous one (e.g. wider choice of DBMS), then this is even better.
   

Sorry to barge in, but I think you all miss the point. IANAL, but I've done 
some extendsive research into this and similar problems and currently my 
official standing (and you can quote me, but again - I'm not legally 
qualified to make such assertions so it's still your risk) regarding GPL is 
that it allows you to combine GPL code with any open source code using a "GPL 
compatible" license. that means as long as the Kannel license it GPL 
compliant it should be ok to link it directly against GPL code. 

GPL compatibility is cleary described in the GPL itself as any terms that do 
not limit the freedom of the user any more GPL does. it is widely accepted 
that a BSD Style and Apache Style licenses are less limiting then the GPL and 
are hence GPL compatible.

Also - as long as Kannel does not distribute mysql sources, and it can be 
compiled against 3.x versions of MySQL as well as 4.x, and is compatible with 
3.x libraries (are those LGPL ?) then Kannel people should not worry too much 
about it as the burden of license compatability lies with the person who 
distributes binary packages and MySQL explicitly allows you to use it in 
proprietry commercial environments under the GPL license as long as it is not 
re-ditributed or advertised.

 



--
Raditha Dissanayake.

http://www.radinks.com/sftp/ | http://www.raditha.com/megaupload
Lean and mean Secure FTP applet with | Mega Upload - PHP file uploader
Graphical User Inteface. Just 150 KB | with progress bar.

Re: MySQL 4.0 license change

[Oded Arbel]

ביום ראשון 25 ינואר 2004, 12:03, נכתב על ידי Raditha Dissanayake:
> The Problem here is that mysql does not intepret GPL in the same way
> that the rest of the world does.
> I wrote to them asking for a client license and they insist i need to
> buy the server license and with it comes the client license. Do i need
> to buy a road so that i can drive a car?

That's licensing issue which has no bearing at all on GPL. to use a GPLed 
product in a GPL compliant code you don't need any special license. 

The only reason you'd need a different license then GPL is if you want to use
 GPLed code in a product in a manner that does not comply with the GPL, in 
which case the copyright holder can set any terms he or she likes - and it 
doesn't have any effect on the GPL. MySQL can decide that in order to get a 
license you'd need to send them a singing telegram, and that would be 
perfectly OK - because you want a proprietary license. 

If you want to use MySQL under the GPL license all you have to do is make sure 
that your product complies with the GPL as I've written below. you do not 
need any additional licenses from MySQL AB. AFAIU Kannel fully complies with 
the GPL and so can link against MySQL libraries. 

If OTOH you want to redistribute Kannel w/o source code (which the Kannel 
license allows you to do), that also means you'd need to distrbute closed 
source code that links with MySQL client code. this is specifically 
disallowed by the GPL which means you'd need a special non-GPL license from 
MySQL, at which point MySQL AB are allowed to require you to buy a server 
license if they want to.



> Oded Arbel wrote:
> > ? 21 ? 2004, 16:18
> >
> >>all is the safest way. If the GPL avoiding solution is technical superior
> >>to the previous one (e.g. wider choice of DBMS), then this is even
> >> better.
> >
> >Sorry to barge in, but I think you all miss the point. IANAL, but I've
> > done some extendsive research into this and similar problems and
> > currently my official standing (and you can quote me, but again - I'm not
> > legally qualified to make such assertions so it's still your risk)
> > regarding GPL is that it allows you to combine GPL code with any open
> > source code using a "GPL compatible" license. that means as long as the
> > Kannel license it GPL compliant it should be ok to link it directly
> > against GPL code.
> >
> >GPL compatibility is cleary described in the GPL itself as any terms that
> > do not limit the freedom of the user any more GPL does. it is widely
> > accepted that a BSD Style and Apache Style licenses are less limiting
> > then the GPL and are hence GPL compatible.
> >
> >Also - as long as Kannel does not distribute mysql sources, and it can be
> >compiled against 3.x versions of MySQL as well as 4.x, and is compatible
> > with 3.x libraries (are those LGPL ?) then Kannel people should not worry
> > too much about it as the burden of license compatability lies with the
> > person who distributes binary packages and MySQL explicitly allows you to
> > use it in proprietry commercial environments under the GPL license as
> > long as it is not re-ditributed or advertised.

-- 
Oded Arbel
m-Wise mobile solutions
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

+972-9-9581711 (116)
+972-67-340014

::..
I'm desperately trying to figure out why kamikaze pilots wore helmets.
-- Dave Edison

Re: MySQL 4.0 license change

[adi]

On Sun, Jan 25, 2004 at 01:21:16PM +0200, Oded Arbel wrote:
> If OTOH you want to redistribute Kannel w/o source code (which the Kannel 
> license allows you to do), that also means you'd need to distrbute closed 
> source code that links with MySQL client code. this is specifically 
> disallowed by the GPL which means you'd need a special non-GPL license from 
> MySQL, at which point MySQL AB are allowed to require you to buy a server 
> license if they want to.

Please note that current cvs version of kannel contains
GPL code (i.e gw_uuid stuffs).

Regards,

P.Y. Adi Prasaja

Re: MySQL 4.0 license change

[Raditha Dissanayake]

Hi Oded,

Thanks for the intepretation of the GPL i am familiar with it too since 
our company also contributes to a lot of open source developent 
(unfortunately not to kannel - yet)

My point was the mysql inteprets the GPL differently from everyone else. 
Yes we intend to to link the client against a close source product 
that's why i wrote to them in the first place asking for a license. What 
i disagree with is their insistence of our buying a server license. We 
have no plans at all to redistribute mysql. Our product is not limited 
to a mysql backend anyway.

the bottom line from the mysql company is that if your product requires 
the buyer to download mysql server you need to buy a commercial license. 
This is clearly mentioned on their site.

According to that intepretation almost everything that uses mysql 
becomes a derived work.

Anyway i think we are getting too far off topic so i will stop with this 
post.

best regards
raditha
Oded Arbel wrote:

ביום ראשון 25 ינואר 2004, 12:03, נכתב על ידי Raditha Dissanayake:
 

The Problem here is that mysql does not intepret GPL in the same way
that the rest of the world does.
I wrote to them asking for a client license and they insist i need to
buy the server license and with it comes the client license. Do i need
to buy a road so that i can drive a car?
   

That's licensing issue which has no bearing at all on GPL. to use a GPLed 
product in a GPL compliant code you don't need any special license. 

The only reason you'd need a different license then GPL is if you want to use
GPLed code in a product in a manner that does not comply with the GPL, in 
which case the copyright holder can set any terms he or she likes - and it 
doesn't have any effect on the GPL. MySQL can decide that in order to get a 
license you'd need to send them a singing telegram, and that would be 
perfectly OK - because you want a proprietary license. 

If you want to use MySQL under the GPL license all you have to do is make sure 
that your product complies with the GPL as I've written below. you do not 
need any additional licenses from MySQL AB. AFAIU Kannel fully complies with 
the GPL and so can link against MySQL libraries. 

If OTOH you want to redistribute Kannel w/o source code (which the Kannel 
license allows you to do), that also means you'd need to distrbute closed 
source code that links with MySQL client code. this is specifically 
disallowed by the GPL which means you'd need a special non-GPL license from 
 



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Re: MySQL 4.0 license change

[Oded Arbel]

ביום ראשון 25 ינואר 2004, 13:59, נכתב על ידי Raditha Dissanayake:
> Hi Oded,
>
> Thanks for the intepretation of the GPL i am familiar with it too since
> our company also contributes to a lot of open source developent
> (unfortunately not to kannel - yet)
>
> My point was the mysql inteprets the GPL differently from everyone else.

No they don't.

> Yes we intend to to link the client against a close source product
> that's why i wrote to them in the first place asking for a license. What
> i disagree with is their insistence of our buying a server license. We
> have no plans at all to redistribute mysql. Our product is not limited
> to a mysql backend anyway.
>
> the bottom line from the mysql company is that if your product requires
> the buyer to download mysql server you need to buy a commercial license.
> This is clearly mentioned on their site.

Again - that's not an issue with GPL or MySQL's interpetation of it. if you 
want to use their product not under the GPL, then both you and MySQL AB are 
not confined by the GPL license and therefor can require to purchase any 
license they have available. AFAIK, MySQL AB do not have client development 
licenses.


-- 
Oded Arbel
m-Wise mobile solutions
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

+972-9-9581711 (116)
+972-67-340014

::..
Bride, n.:
A woman with a fine prospect of happiness behind her.
-- "The Devil's Dictionary" / Ambrose Bierce

Re: MySQL 4.0 license change

[Oded Arbel]

ביום ראשון 25 ינואר 2004, 13:41, נכתב על ידי adi:
> On Sun, Jan 25, 2004 at 01:21:16PM +0200, Oded Arbel wrote:
> > If OTOH you want to redistribute Kannel w/o source code (which the Kannel
> > license allows you to do), that also means you'd need to distrbute closed
> > source code that links with MySQL client code. this is specifically
> > disallowed by the GPL which means you'd need a special non-GPL license
> > from MySQL, at which point MySQL AB are allowed to require you to buy a
> > server license if they want to.
>
> Please note that current cvs version of kannel contains
> GPL code (i.e gw_uuid stuffs).

Oh, in that case the whole MySQL/Kannel GPL issue is moot. if Kannel already 
legally contains GPLed code then it sure can link against MySQL's GPLed code.

-- 
Oded Arbel
m-Wise mobile solutions
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

+972-9-9581711 (116)
+972-67-340014

::..
Bride, n.:
A woman with a fine prospect of happiness behind her.
-- "The Devil's Dictionary" / Ambrose Bierce

Re: MySQL 4.0 license change

[Stipe Tolj]

> Please note that current cvs version of kannel contains
> GPL code (i.e gw_uuid stuffs).

which is _not_ the fact. The gw_uuid module is LGPL'ed, as this header
states:

/*
 * Public include file for the UUID library
 * 
 * Copyright (C) 1996, 1997, 1998 Theodore Ts'o.
 *
 * %Begin-Header%
 * This file may be redistributed under the terms of the GNU 
 * Library General Public License.
 * %End-Header%
 */

Stipe

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---

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Re: MySQL 4.0 license change

[Stipe Tolj]

Oded Arbel wrote:
> 
> áéåí øàùåï 25 éðåàø 2004, 13:41, ðëúá òì éãé adi:
> > On Sun, Jan 25, 2004 at 01:21:16PM +0200, Oded Arbel wrote:
> > > If OTOH you want to redistribute Kannel w/o source code (which the Kannel
> > > license allows you to do), that also means you'd need to distrbute closed
> > > source code that links with MySQL client code. this is specifically
> > > disallowed by the GPL which means you'd need a special non-GPL license
> > > from MySQL, at which point MySQL AB are allowed to require you to buy a
> > > server license if they want to.
> >
> > Please note that current cvs version of kannel contains
> > GPL code (i.e gw_uuid stuffs).
> 
> Oh, in that case the whole MySQL/Kannel GPL issue is moot. if Kannel already
> legally contains GPLed code then it sure can link against MySQL's GPLed code.

why is that?

If Kannel "would" contain GPL'ed code, then it's own license
(BSD-style) would be absolete, since noone would be able to distribute
binary only software without sources. This would break the GPL
requirements of the GPL'ed code, but would be allowed by the BSD-style
code.

Stipe

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---

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Re: MySQL 4.0 license change

[Stipe Tolj]

Raditha Dissanayake wrote:
> 
> Hi Oded,
> 
> Thanks for the intepretation of the GPL i am familiar with it too since
> our company also contributes to a lot of open source developent
> (unfortunately not to kannel - yet)

why is that? ... they definetly should ;)

Stipe

mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
---
Wapme Systems AG

Münsterstr. 248
40470 Düsseldorf, NRW, Germany

phone: +49.211.74845.0
fax: +49.211.74845.299

mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.wapme-systems.de/
---

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Re: MySQL 4.0 license change

[adi]

On Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 12:54:29AM +0100, Stipe Tolj wrote:
> > Please note that current cvs version of kannel contains
> > GPL code (i.e gw_uuid stuffs).
> 
> which is _not_ the fact. The gw_uuid module is LGPL'ed, as this header
> states:

ups.. sorry. I stand corrected.

Regards,

P.Y. Adi Prasaja

Re: MySQL 4.0 license change

[Raditha Dissanayake]

Stipe Tolj wrote:

Raditha Dissanayake wrote:
 

Hi Oded,

Thanks for the intepretation of the GPL i am familiar with it too since
our company also contributes to a lot of open source developent
(unfortunately not to kannel - yet)
   

why is that? ... they definetly should ;)
 

planning to :-)

--
Raditha Dissanayake.

http://www.radinks.com/sftp/ | http://www.raditha.com/megaupload
Lean and mean Secure FTP applet with | Mega Upload - PHP file uploader
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Re: MySQL 4.0 license change

[Oded Arbel]

 ××× 26 × 2004, 01:56, :
> Oded Arbel wrote:
> >  × 25 × 2004, 13:41,  ×× ××× adi:
> > > On Sun, Jan 25, 2004 at 01:21:16PM +0200, Oded Arbel wrote:
> > > > If OTOH you want to redistribute Kannel w/o source code (which the
> > > > Kannel license allows you to do), that also means you'd need to
> > > > distrbute closed source code that links with MySQL client code. this
> > > > is specifically disallowed by the GPL which means you'd need a
> > > > special non-GPL license from MySQL, at which point MySQL AB are
> > > > allowed to require you to buy a server license if they want to.
> > >
> > > Please note that current cvs version of kannel contains
> > > GPL code (i.e gw_uuid stuffs).
> >
> > Oh, in that case the whole MySQL/Kannel GPL issue is moot. if Kannel
> > already legally contains GPLed code then it sure can link against MySQL's
> > GPLed code.
>
> why is that?
>
> If Kannel "would" contain GPL'ed code, then it's own license
> (BSD-style) would be absolete, since noone would be able to distribute
> binary only software without sources. This would break the GPL
> requirements of the GPL'ed code, but would be allowed by the BSD-style
> code.

That's correct, but on the technicality of it, the GPL does not by itself 
force Kannel to switch to a GPL license as soon as GPLed code is introduced. 
There is the notion of "GPL compatible" license. 
For the purpose of actually embedding code directly into the software, this in 
effect makes the BSD license irrelevant, but the parts that are BSD licensed 
may still be BSD licensed (including the freedom to take just the BSD style 
licensed parts and release them in a closed source product).

Since Kannel does not embed the GPLed code of the MySQL drivers, but simply 
link to it - something that even for closed source software it is still 
disputed whether its a violation of the GPL license or not - then there is no 
problem with that.

-- 
Oded Arbel
m-Wise mobile solutions
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

+972-9-9581711 (116)
+972-67-340014

::..
"We make up horrors to help us cope with the real ones."
-- Stephen King

Re: MySQL 4.0 license change

[Stipe Tolj]

> planning to :-)

I come here with some poetry:

"Thoughts are the blind mans way to see.
For those who see, they should be kept for things
that can not been done. -- Stipe Tolj"

Stipe

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phone: +49.211.74845.0
fax: +49.211.74845.299

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Re: MySQL 4.0 license change

[Raditha Dissanayake]

Unfortunately I Am Not A Poet so cannot reply in kind :-(

Stipe Tolj wrote:

planning to :-)
   

I come here with some poetry:

"Thoughts are the blind mans way to see.
For those who see, they should be kept for things
that can not been done. -- Stipe Tolj"
Stipe

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Münsterstr. 248
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fax: +49.211.74845.299
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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---
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Re: AW: MySQL 4.0 license change

[Stipe Tolj]

Jörg Pommnitz schrieb:
> 
> Can one circumvent the viral nature of the GPL by using the
> dlopen functions?

interesting question. Like using a neutral injection platform. ;)

Stipe

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Re: AW: MySQL 4.0 license change

[Raditha Dissanayake]

hi,

This is becoming quite a headache, i did some reading on this today and 
their (mysql's) bottom line is if you are a company or a goverment 
that's not developing open source software you should get a commercial 
licence. 

in one of the threads i read they suggested that fork is what we should use!

hope this helps.



Jörg Pommnitz wrote:

Can one circumvent the viral nature of the GPL by using the
dlopen functions?
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Paul Keogh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 21. Januar 2004 11:13
An: Kannel Development List (E-mail) (Kannel Development List (E-mail))
Betreff: MySQL 4.0 license change


The license for the MySQL 4.0 client API has changed from LGPL to GPL.

See

http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/01/16/03OPstrategic_1.html?developme
nt
for full details.

I guess this affects Kannel - my understanding is that linking GPL
libraries
under the current Kannel license is not possible. Am I correct ?
 



--
Raditha Dissanayake.

http://www.radinks.com/sftp/ | http://www.raditha.com/megaupload
Lean and mean Secure FTP applet with | Mega Upload - PHP file uploader
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RE: MySQL 4.0 license change - should be 4.1

[Paul Keogh]

Sorry, thats 4.1

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Keogh
> Sent: 21 January 2004 10:13
> To: Kannel Development List (E-mail) (Kannel Development List 
> (E-mail))
> Subject: MySQL 4.0 license change
> 
> 
> 
> The license for the MySQL 4.0 client API has changed from LGPL to GPL.
> 
> See
> 
http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/01/16/03OPstrategic_1.html?developme
nt

for full details.

I guess this affects Kannel - my understanding is that linking GPL
libraries under the current Kannel license is not possible. Am I correct
?

Re: MySQL 4.0 license change - should be 4.1

[Alexander Malysh]

Hi Paul,

On Wednesday 21 January 2004 11:16, Paul Keogh wrote:
> Sorry, thats 4.1
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Keogh
> > Sent: 21 January 2004 10:13
> > To: Kannel Development List (E-mail) (Kannel Development List
> > (E-mail))
> > Subject: MySQL 4.0 license change
> >
> >
> >
> > The license for the MySQL 4.0 client API has changed from LGPL to GPL.
> >
> > See
>
> http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/01/16/03OPstrategic_1.html?developme
> nt
>
> for full details.
>
> I guess this affects Kannel - my understanding is that linking GPL
> libraries under the current Kannel license is not possible. Am I correct
> ?

it's not true... Kannel is a open source project, so GPL just say: when 
linking against GPL library then source code for this application _must_ be 
available and this is the case with Kannel. It's not allowed to link closed 
source applications against GPLed libraries.

correct me if I'm wrong?!

-- 
Best regards / Mit besten Grüßen aus Düsseldorf

Dipl.-Ing.
Alexander Malysh
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RE: MySQL 4.0 license change - should be 4.1

[Paul Keogh]

> 
> it's not true... Kannel is a open source project, so GPL just 
> say: when 
> linking against GPL library then source code for this 
> application _must_ be 
> available and this is the case with Kannel. It's not allowed 
> to link closed 
> source applications against GPLed libraries.

But available under what license ? My understanding is that if you
link or include GPL code into a code base, then that code base itself
must be made available under GPL.

I recall from the early days of Kannel that using GPL licensed
components
was'nt possible, whereas LGPL was OK.

Re: MySQL 4.0 license change - should be 4.1

[Jari Juslin]

Paul Keogh wrote:
But available under what license ? My understanding is that if you
link or include GPL code into a code base, then that code base itself
must be made available under GPL.
I recall from the early days of Kannel that using GPL licensed
components
was'nt possible, whereas LGPL was OK.
From GPL FAQ: "Combining two modules means connecting them together so 
that they form a single larger program. If either part is covered by the 
GPL, the whole combination must also be released under the GPL--if you 
can't, or won't, do that, you may not combine them."

Re: MySQL 4.0 license change - should be 4.1

[Alexander Malysh]

On Wednesday 21 January 2004 11:58, Paul Keogh wrote:
> > it's not true... Kannel is a open source project, so GPL just
> > say: when
> > linking against GPL library then source code for this
> > application _must_ be
> > available and this is the case with Kannel. It's not allowed
> > to link closed
> > source applications against GPLed libraries.
>
> But available under what license ? My understanding is that if you
> link or include GPL code into a code base, then that code base itself
> must be made available under GPL.
>
> I recall from the early days of Kannel that using GPL licensed
> components
> was'nt possible, whereas LGPL was OK.

all this stuff can be found at ww.gnu.org ;)

from [2]: using the ordinary GPL for a library makes it available only for 
free programs
(see [1] for definition 'free programm').

[1] http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/categories.html#TOCFreeSoftware
[2] http://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-not-lgpl.html

Hope it's clear now ;)

-- 
Best regards / Mit besten Grüßen aus Düsseldorf

Dipl.-Ing.
Alexander Malysh
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Re: MySQL 4.0 license change - should be 4.1

[Jari Juslin]

Alexander Malysh wrote:
all this stuff can be found at ww.gnu.org ;)

from [2]: using the ordinary GPL for a library makes it available only for 
free programs (see [1] for definition 'free programm').
I think you are quoting that out of the context now; what the quotation 
means is that it is _possible_ to link for example Kannel with GPL'd 
software - but then the whole bundle must be GPL'd. Your quotation just 
tells, that Kannel licence, being a free one, is GPL-compatible and does 
not prevent it being made GPL.

But there is no question about linking: linking GPL'd program with 
another program means that you have to release the combined program 
under GPL.

Re: MySQL 4.0 license change - should be 4.1

[Stipe Tolj]

Jari Juslin wrote:
> 
> Alexander Malysh wrote:
> > all this stuff can be found at ww.gnu.org ;)
> >
> > from [2]: using the ordinary GPL for a library makes it available only for
> > free programs (see [1] for definition 'free programm').
> 
> I think you are quoting that out of the context now; what the quotation
> means is that it is _possible_ to link for example Kannel with GPL'd
> software - but then the whole bundle must be GPL'd. Your quotation just
> tells, that Kannel licence, being a free one, is GPL-compatible and does
> not prevent it being made GPL.
> 
> But there is no question about linking: linking GPL'd program with
> another program means that you have to release the combined program
> under GPL.

AFAIK Jari is right here. That's the "essential restriction" on the
GPL, forcing combined components to be morphed into the same policy,
hence GPL.

Which is definetly a problem.

But this would imply "only", that someone who wants mysql support is
not able to distribute the bundled binaries (hence included
libmysqlclient) under BSD style. He would require to make the whole
set available under GPL.

Right?

Stipe

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