Re: [SailfishDevel] Push Service for Sailfish OS

[Thomas B . Rücker]

On 02/07/2016 12:45 PM, r0kk3rz wrote:
> I wouldn't bet on Jolla hosting such a thing, this was raised by a
> community member some time ago and afaik Jolla didn't show any interest.

To clarify, there was interest, but only as far as observing my research
into this subject. Given that they constantly had and will have far too
much on their plate and are severely cash limited, this is not that
surprising. A working push service probably never was enough of a
priority, neither in terms of engineer time nor paying someone external
(e.g. me) to get it to work.


> For MQTT tbr made a patched apache paho mqtt client which a number of
> sailfish os users have been using quite successfully for some time now:
> https://github.com/dm8tbr/org.eclipse.paho.mqtt.python

That's unfortunately a rather old fork of the python library. As I've
coincidentally added TLS capability to the test server yesterday, I'll
be revisiting it soon. Also as I want to look into MQTT over websockets.

There is also a C/C++ library, libmosquitto. I think I also patched that
with IPHB support at some point, but probably didn't push it to a public
repository.


> This could be rolled into a service without too much trouble really.

Yes, there is a bare bones client service example using it here:
https://github.com/dm8tbr/irssi-mqtt-sailfish

All it does is forward a two line MQTT message as a Sailfish
notification. I wrote it as a demonstration and to scratch my itch of
receiving IRC notifications on my phone. (There is also a irssi script
counterpart)

A more proper deployment of a MQTT based push service would be the
direction for any wider use. I did some initial architecture work and
had started exploratory work on Trusor and Nuntius, respectively the
server and client side daemons. This work has laid dormant for about a
year now, as there was no interest from Jolla to invest into it, nor was
there sufficient community momentum.

Given Jolla's current situation, I very much doubt, that such a service
would be of any priority to justify internal or external investment. So
if, then it would need to come out of the community.

Actually not just the Sailfish/Nemo/Mer community, but essentially
anywhere in the open source community at large, as such a system could
be universally useful. At that time it would be good to check if there
is anything comparable meanwhile that could be used instead.


> However I think the whisper systems guys need to have their own rather
> than relying on android/ios integrated features. Whether this is based
> on MQTT or websockets or some other method of their devising is up to
> them.

Their choice of using platform notification frameworks sounds sensible.
The downside is, that alternative platforms won't have such services, at
least not with user numbers justifying the engineering effort of adding it.


> On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 6:35 PM, george b  > wrote:
>
> I did some more search on this issue.
>
> With libmosquitto and some client implementation (thank you,
> Yuvraaj), the push service may be possbile with the Mer
> testplattform.
>
> The problem with this is, that the guys from whisper systems have
> to include this push service within there server application. But
> I didn't think that they would do this with an experimental server.
>
> So what we really need is to get Jolla or the Mer Project to set
> up a reliable push service with an good API...
>

See above.


>
> Bye
> Georg
>
> 2016-02-02 20:00 GMT+01:00 Yuvraaj  >:
>
> I had ported libmosquitto to Diablo and Maemo so that I could
> use it in my app qgvdial.
> I've even pulled out the class I used into a separate
> repository so that anyone else can use it:
> https://github.com/uvatbc/simplify/tree/master/qt/mqclient
>
> Hope this helps.
> -UV
>
>
> On 02/02/2016 06:04 AM, Tone Kastlunger wrote:
>> AFAIK, someone had putted together a concept-proof push service.
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 9:14 PM, Erik Lundin
>> mailto:e...@lists.lun.nu>> wrote:
>>
>> Den 2016-02-01 kl. 19:58, skrev george b:
>>
>> The only missing thing is a working push service to
>> get a real user
>> experience with a messaging application.
>>
>> Does anyone know something about that? I didn't find
>> any good resources
>> about this topic on the internet.
>>
>>
>> There exists a question about that at TJC [1]. One idea,
>> described at [2], seems to be to use an MQTT based
>> service. Not much seems to have happened the last years
>> though.
>>
>> I'm not involved in any of this myself but thought I
>> could share what I have seen, since I also think it would
>> be nice with some push ser

Re: [SailfishDevel] [Minutes] SailfishOS community meeting 26.11 + planning for next one 3.12

[Thomas B . Rücker]

Hi,

On 11/27/2015 12:45 PM, E.S. Rosenberg wrote:
> Above the question was raised how much/good of a base the Jolla
> community is, I think the simple fact that Jolla started with
> crowd-funding (The First One, remember?) shows that they have a strong
> and passionate community willing to back them.

I'll have to step in here. You're talking about the past as if it would
be today.
"much/good of a base the Jolla community WAS" FTFY.
While there might still be a community, it's by no means as strong and
enthusiastic as it was before the phone shipped. Jolla managed to
alienate significant parts of the community and many bright and
motivated people just turned away and found something more rewarding to do.


> I did not buy a tablet for the simple reason that I did not see any
> value in a tablet when I have a phone and a laptop on me all the time,
> I was provided a tablet through a program I am currently in and that
> has made me change my mind a bit but by now even if I want I can't buy
> it, the same goes for OH (where is the Angry Birds OH? Stella doesn't
> count because you can't get it without a phone), extra batteries and a
> ton of other things that could have generated some 'cheap' revenue but
> were never done.
>
> As said above now that Jolla essentially canceled the Jolla2 (by
> saying they won't do hw development anymore) it doesn't make sense for
> me to buy another OH because I have no way of know how much ROI I will
> get in the form of being able to use it in the future.

I find it somewhat amusing, that people keep talking about the Jolla
phone the Tablet and a mythical Jolla2 as if their sales could possibly
turn a stone. Those were, rather obviously, huge loss-making endeavours
intended to showcase the capabilities of Jolla engineering.

Jolla was betting from day one on being able to license out their OS and
related services and they were not shy of saying this. At best the Jolla
phone could have provided a bit of additional propulsion through the
initial rough seas, but only if it would have been a massive smash hit
and operators would have lined up with 100k orders around the former
Nokia building that Jolla used to inhabit. The denial in people in this
regard is sometimes astonishing.


> I have no problem with Jolla having a feature bounty program where the
> community can steer what features are important to them and I have no
> problem with Jolla saying "Please help us" in some crowd funding
> campaign, I may not even want a T-shirt in return but to go from there
> to a subscription system for updates to me is completely in-culpable.
>
> If Jolla were to take a more Open Source approach to software
> development they would also find that the cost of development would
> probably be lower after all there are all kinds of basic functions
> that community members have gone and added in the past (keyboards,
> calendar localization, translations etc.) that actually allow the
> phone to be sold in markets that would otherwise just not touch it
> because they can't type/read their local language.
> I have no idea how much time and effort it cost to add the calendar
> localization in SFOS2 (yes it's finally there, I don't need to patch
> it anymore!) and I really hope that they did use my patches because
> otherwise that is a great example of how money is wasted on
> re-developing features done by the community which just need QA.
> I don't believe that Jolla would be in severe danger from being all
> Open Source just look at Red Hat and other big Linux players it can
> work not only that the dirt-cheap Chinese players may copy the product
> but on the way they also expose the platform more and they may also
> both contribute back and have support contracts with Jolla.

This would have worked very well, 2 years ago. That ship has largely
sailed. It's not that Jolla didn't know. I know for a fact that many if
not most developers who were employed by jolla were very strong open
source advocates.

It is my personal opinion, that this was caused by a combination of factors:
 - Jolla Oy not finding at least one hardware partner early on
 - Jolla Oy top management and its investors clinging to "proprietary IPR"
 - A worsened outlook leading to "survival mode" behaviour (due to e.g.
the above two)
 - The aborted Mer/Nemomobile(middleware) merge (due to survival mode,
it actually resumed recently and may complete before its 2 year anniversary)
 - The complete and persistent intransparency in Mer/Nemo/SailfishOS
contribution processes (see previous points)
 - The deterioration of community meetings, especially over the last year
 - The complete absence of community meetings and communications for
over a quarter called "summer vacations"

Especially in the first 5 there is somewhat of a cascade. I obviously
wasn't in the meetings, so I can't ascribe blame. The root cause for
Jolla Oy being perceived as Janus-faced in terms of open source by the
community is probably found somewhere between the scar

Re: [SailfishDevel] Sip on Jola Phone / "Community Meetings"

[Thomas B . Rücker]

On 11/14/2015 06:11 PM, E.S. Rosenberg wrote:
> Sounds like something to metion at a community meeting after all Jolla
> wants to profile itself as more privacy aware

Feel free to do so. I've long given up on the farce that are
"community meetings".
Just so I don't get accused of baseless negativity, again, some points:
 - No follow up on action points from previous meetings
 - No accountability for not implementing actions
 - Jolla (almost) never acts proactively regarding the agenda. Even
   rather obvious topics need to be put up AND presented by community.
 - Often such topics are then followed by grave silence, as Jolla
   does not seem prepared and nobody with authority to answer is there.
 - Instead of scheduling once properly, very important topics
   get delayed, rescheduled, canceled, rescheduled again.
 - Don't happen at all for over a quarter due to "summer vacations"

Or read the Minutes or full transcripts yourself:
https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Sailfish/CommunityMeetings

Oh and it's not like this topic didn't make it to IRC, community meetings
and the official roadmap before.
4.d (ff)
http://merproject.org/meetings/mer-meeting/2014/mer-meeting.2014-09-23-10.00.html
2.
http://merproject.org/meetings/mer-meeting/2015/mer-meeting.2015-01-07-15.01.html

So yeah, if anyone is interested, feel free to step in as
Don Quixote de La Mancha and put it on the agenda. I most certainly CBA.

>
> 2015-11-14 19:21 GMT+02:00 Vladislav Vorobiev  <mailto:v...@piratweb.com>>:
>
> Hi,
>
> On Thursday 12 November 2015 17:25:19 Thomas B. Rücker wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > On 11/09/2015 06:03 PM, Vladislav Vorobiev wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I setup my phone like this
> > >
> https://together.jolla.com/question/415/sip-voip-native-integration/
> and
> > > it seems to work. The Phone is ringing (display stay black)
> but I can
> > > answer if i activate the screen with the button.
> >
> > Sounds about right.
> >
> > > The microphone from jolla phone works and caller hears me but
> I can't hear
> > > the caller.
> >
> > If the situation is still the same as before, apply the ALSA
> trick and
> > try holding the phone upside down.
>
> You mean this?
>
> [stream]
> exe = voicecall-manager
> group = call
>
> or something else?
>
> > > So it's not usable
> >
> > Correct, but that should not have been a surprise to you. After
> all you
> > read the TJC item on this topic.
> >
> > > For me is the stable sip feature (even without gui) decisive.
> >
> > Then I strongly suggest using a different device than a Jolla phone.
> >
> > > I have no firewall or something like what can block SIP,
> CSipSimple works
> > > on that device but there are other problems.
> >
> > That's an Android application, different can of worms and
> brokenness.
> >
> >
> > SIP was on Jolla's roadmap, but was never delivered. I expect it got
> > dropped, but nobody bothered to update their public roadmap. It
> is not a
> > feature that would generate value for Jolla in the form of
> operator or
> > manufacturer deals, so I don't expect them to bother.
>
> Seems the strategy is like by android and apple.
> I thought jola orients itself something else and supports independent
> services. We have already very good devices from Apple, Android
> and nobody
> need an half ready device with the same only profit strategy.
>
> I bought this device to check the current situation and what i see
> i  wonder:
>
> Jola supports Facebook, Twitter, Google accounts but it don't support
> SIP, GPG (Mail or XMPP,  what I is rely necessary to be different and
> independent).
>
> All what I need are basic things like: SIP, PGP, Calendar, Todos and
> possibility to sync my data with own servers and that's not
> given.  If i need
> facebook  or Twitter I'm going buy android or apple devices.
>
> > If you need SIP
> > urgently, as you say, get a different device, as there is no
> promise and
> > no outlook on a change in situation.
>
> I' have other phone and SIP is on PC. This discussion is more ge
>
> > Please note that I don't think talking about platform features
> and user
> > problems is on topic here. So let's EOD. If there's any change
> you'll
> > see it in the TJC item.
>
> I tried here because i hoped to get some updates in this case.
>
> Regards
> Vladislav
>
> > Thomas
>

-- 
Thomas

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Re: [SailfishDevel] Sip on Jola Phone

[Thomas B . Rücker]

On 11/13/2015 04:32 AM, Lorn Potter wrote:

> On 13/11/2015 3:25 am, Thomas B. Rücker wrote:
>> SIP was on Jolla's roadmap, but was never delivered. I expect it got
>> dropped, but nobody bothered to update their public roadmap. It is not a
>> feature that would generate value for Jolla in the form of operator or
>> manufacturer deals, so I don't expect them to bother. If you need SIP
>> urgently, as you say, get a different device, as there is no promise and
>> no outlook on a change in situation.
>>
>> Please note that I don't think talking about platform features and user
>> problems is on topic here. So let's EOD. If there's any change you'll
>> see it in the TJC item.
> SIP is still on the Jolla roadmap, although I am not aware of the 
> current status. I think it's a matter of priorities.

Yes, on the Roadmap for 2015-Q2. *snerk*
https://sailfishos.org/developmentroadmap/
(Someone™ with write access might want to update that)

And yes, priorities, just as I said. Thanks.

TBR

PS: Sorry, no idea what my MUA thought in encrypting the message...
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Re: [SailfishDevel] Sip on Jola Phone

[Thomas B . Rücker]

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Description: PGP/MIME version identification


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Description: OpenPGP encrypted message
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Re: [SailfishDevel] Sip on Jola Phone

[Thomas B . Rücker]

Hi,

On 11/09/2015 06:03 PM, Vladislav Vorobiev wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I setup my phone like this 
> https://together.jolla.com/question/415/sip-voip-native-integration/ 
> and it seems to work. The Phone is ringing (display stay black) but I can 
> answer if i activate the screen with the button.

Sounds about right.


> The microphone from jolla phone works and caller hears me but I can't hear 
> the 
> caller.

If the situation is still the same as before, apply the ALSA trick and
try holding the phone upside down.


> So it's not usable

Correct, but that should not have been a surprise to you. After all you
read the TJC item on this topic.


> For me is the stable sip feature (even without gui) decisive.

Then I strongly suggest using a different device than a Jolla phone.


> I have no firewall or something like what can block SIP, CSipSimple works on 
> that device but there are other problems.

That's an Android application, different can of worms and brokenness.


SIP was on Jolla's roadmap, but was never delivered. I expect it got
dropped, but nobody bothered to update their public roadmap. It is not a
feature that would generate value for Jolla in the form of operator or
manufacturer deals, so I don't expect them to bother. If you need SIP
urgently, as you say, get a different device, as there is no promise and
no outlook on a change in situation.

Please note that I don't think talking about platform features and user
problems is on topic here. So let's EOD. If there's any change you'll
see it in the TJC item.

Thomas

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Re: [SailfishDevel] Sailfish os on Nokia N9

[Thomas B. Rücker]

On 07/28/2015 08:13 AM, Andrey Kozhevnikov wrote:
> I see sfa and sfe is same dir, probably symlinks.

Yes, a historic thing. There were two names floating:
- Sailfish for Android
- Sailfish for Everyone

Due to a misunderstanding I created the wrong acronym folder. When this
was discovered months later, I quickly created a symlink to avoid
breaking old hyperlinks while providing proper URLs. A HTTP 301
indicating "moved permanently" would be cleaner, but meh...

Cheers

Thomas

> -- Исходное сообщение --
> От: "Zoltán Lutor"  >
> Кому: "Sailfish OS Developers"  >
> Отправлено: 28.07.2015 13:05:45
> Тема: Re: [SailfishDevel] Sailfish os on Nokia N9
>  
>> Hi,
>>
>> What is 'sfe' and 'sfa' here: http://images.devaamo.fi/? 
>>
>> Br,
>>
>> Zoltan
>>
>> 2015-07-27 12:46 GMT+02:00 Fabio Isgrò > >:
>>
>> http://images.devaamo.fi/sfe/n9/ 
>>
>> Is quiet old ... my fault ... but is easilly buildable via
>> kickstart file ...
>>
>> Regards
>> F.
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 9:16 PM, xenobi789 > > wrote:
>>
>> Welcome whether Sailfish os will ever be released Nokia N9?
>> .Last Sailfish os version made available to Nokia this
>> v1.0.2.5 whether this is the end ?
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Re: [SailfishDevel] Developer wiki?

[Thomas B. Rücker]

On 02/06/2015 12:13 PM, Kaj-Michael Lang wrote:
> On Fri, 2015-02-06 at 10:32 +, "Thomas B. Rücker" wrote:
>> You mean like https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Sailfish and its
>> various
>> sub-pages? 
> I'm looking more for things like (just examples):
> - How to use the camera in a Sailfish app
> - How do I create this-and-that kind of UI interface
> - How do I use a Wii/PS3 controller in my Sailfish game
> - How can I send e-mail from my application using the e-mail app
> - How do I implement a social sharing feature into my application
> - Storing settings in my app
> - Getting GPS information in a harbour approved way
> - etc...

That's what it's for and some of what you say is there, but if nobody
puts anything new there it won't be there. Or were you looking for
groomed developer documentation that happens to be on a wiki, "like
Nokia had" and Nokia employed an army of people larger than Jolla as a
whole to maintain?

But this is moot anyway, as it was just said that there maybe some day
be a "official" wiki, so please go back to your holding pattern and wait
patiently.

TBR

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Re: [SailfishDevel] Developer wiki?

[Thomas B. Rücker]

On 02/06/2015 10:14 AM, Kaj-Michael Lang wrote:
> Is there a developer wiki available ?
>
> Something like the Nokia developer wiki, where various how-to-do-that
> articles could be created and shared ?

You mean like https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Sailfish and its various
sub-pages?

The wiki sure could use a lot of rework, but if everyone does a little
bit, creates a new page like
https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Sailfish/xyz - then suddenly it will be
a even better resource.

I started and did a little edit, marking a broken link.

Cheers

Thomas

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Re: [SailfishDevel] TODAY: Additional SailfishOS community meeting on IRC - open source and Jolla - 2014-12-02T15:00 UTC

[Thomas B. Rücker]

It's really hard to distill the answers given on TJC into discussion
topics. Please don't hate me if I twist things, it's well intentioned,
to have a more clear agenda. Without further ado, preliminary agenda for
today:

 1. /Introductions and setting the stage/ - *5 min*
 2. /The way forward *together*; A modus operandi for Jolla and the open
source community to collaborate./ *30 min* - based on @DiosDelRayo
's answer
 3. /open sourcing sailfishOS parts - planning the road ahead and
bringing more transparency to the process/ *30 min* - based on @tofe
's answer
 4. /Jolla and OSS - a public manifesto(?) outside private blogs, IRC
and TJC?/ *15 min* - based on @anandrkris ' answer
 5. /beyond EOL - how could a hand-off to community look like?/ *5 min*
- based on @shellkr 's answer
 6. Wrap up, loose ends, do we need another meeting? *10 min*

I will prepare topic introductions for each of the topics and will do my
best to guide the discussion, also by playing /devil's advocate/.
Nevertheless I expect the community and especially each of the named
persons to be ready to argue their side on one hand and Jolla to have
the necessary representatives to engage into meaningful discussion on
the other hand.

The answers section is now considered closed, further posts will /not/
be taken into account. If you take issue in some part of the agenda,
please bring it up during point *1* at the beginning of the meeting.


Cheers

Thomas


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[SailfishDevel] Additional SailfishOS community meeting on IRC - open source and Jolla - 2014-12-02T15:00 UTC

[Thomas B. Rücker]

Hi everyone,

please have a look and help create a meaningful agenda for this Tuesday!
The over arching topic is strictly open source and Jolla.

https://together.jolla.com/question/67668/additional-sailfishos-community-meeting-on-irc-2014-12-02t1500-utc/

I hope to also see input from Sailors for the agenda, there are both
sides to this story.

For the lazy, here's a copy-pasta of the TJC item:

During the last meeting the topic of Jolla and its relation to the open
source community exceeded the allocated time slot. Hence it was decided
to hold a separate meeting one week later: Tuesday, 2014-12-02T15:00 UTC

I (Thomas, a community member) have been asked to chair the meeting and
am hereby soliciting input for the agenda. *Please post your proposed
agenda items as answers to this topic.* As the general topic is complex
and discussions tend to require time, I am reserving up to 90 minutes
and will allow a maximum of 3 main topics and possibly some smaller
topics, if it is evident that they won't need more than 5-10min each.
Should the number of valid topics and issues exceed available time
slots, further meetings on this will be considered.

Please state clearly the area you want to see discussed and if you will
be available to bring your point to the table on IRC.

*/As this is a continuation of a complex issue, before commenting or
answering this post you are expected to have at least read the full log
of the open source time slot of last weeks meeting
,
also if you participated in the meeting./* /I reserve the right to, at
the least, ignore comments and answers where the person hasn't done so./

I hope for plenty of participants both from the community and from
Jolla, as I firmly believe that both sides still have a lot to learn and
great things can come from such meetings (cf. Jolla's very open approach
about tablet development, most prominently hinted by @Stskeeps
 during the meeting).




Cheers

Thomas

PS: Sorry I didn't send this earlier and excuse the HTML email, but it
really helps this one time.


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[SailfishDevel] [CANCELED!] Next meeting on SailfishOS, open source, collaboration: 2014-08-12T15:00 UTC

[Thomas B. Rücker]

PSA: Meeting Canceled!

Jolla representatives won't be attending and it doesn't make sense to
have a meeting with just the community as all of the scheduled topics
relied on Jolla. Having preparedd statements copy-pasted without
discussion makes no sense.

Sorry for the short notice, I was only told minutes ago. At this point in time 
there is no date/time for the next meeting. I'll leave that to Jolla, so they 
can ensure it doesn't collide with their internal schedules.


Cheers

Thomas
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[SailfishDevel] Next meeting on SailfishOS, open source, collaboration: 2014-08-12T15:00 UTC

[Thomas B. Rücker]

Hi!

Thanks to all who've responded on http://piratepad.net/SailfishOSSMeetings

Here's the invitation/agenda for tomorrow's meeting:

Date: 12th August 2014
Time: 15:00 UTC, for your local time: http://yx.fi/6o4
Duration 60 minutes (only 2 topics, holidays)
Chair: Thomas B. Ruecker (tbr)
Location: #mer-meeting on Freenode IRC

Those without an IRC client can access it here:
http://webchat.freenode.net?channels=mer-meeting

Current proposed topics:
* Intro (5 min)
* Updates from Jolla on previous APs - a sailor (20 min)
* Licensing issues (e.g. with sailfishsilica-qt5) - tbr (10 min)
* General discussion / informal meetup - open (20 min)
* Wrap up and next meeting (5 min)

Please familiarize yourself with the topics before the meeting, as well
as the common Meetbot commands https://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot (it's
used for meeting management and logging)

Thanks and see you soon!

Thomas B. Ruecker
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[SailfishDevel] [Minutes] Meeting on SailfishOS, open source, collaboration: 22-July @ 10:00 UTC

[Thomas B. Rücker]

Hi,

Thanks to everyone who attended the meeting. Minutes/logs:

Minutes:
http://merproject.org/meetings/mer-meeting/2014/mer-meeting.2014-07-22-10.03.html

Minutes (text):
http://merproject.org/meetings/mer-meeting/2014/mer-meeting.2014-07-22-10.03.txt

Log:
http://merproject.org/meetings/mer-meeting/2014/mer-meeting.2014-07-22-10.03.log.html

Next meeting will be at 2014-08-12T15:00 UTC. Please propose
discussion topics, with some content/details at:
http://piratepad.net/SailfishOSSMeetings

Add your name/nick if you suggest a topic and will present the topic at
the meeting, or name someone who should present.
* Inform the persons who are directly involved in the topic beforehand
so they can prepare and attend the meeting.
* Indicate how much time approximately you will need for the topic so we
can timebox the meeting accordingly.

NOTE: Propose your topic by Friday 8.8. Any topics added after that
will be considered for the following meeting.

Thanks,
Thomas
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[SailfishDevel] [Minutes] Meeting on SailfishOS, open source, collaboration: 8-July @ 15:00 UTC

[Thomas B. Rücker]

Hi,

Thanks to everyone who attended today's meeting. Minutes/logs:

Minutes:
http://merproject.org/meetings/mer-meeting/2014/mer-meeting.2014-07-08-15.00.html

Minutes (text):
http://merproject.org/meetings/mer-meeting/2014/mer-meeting.2014-07-08-15.00.txt

Log:
http://merproject.org/meetings/mer-meeting/2014/mer-meeting.2014-07-08-15.00.log.html

Next meeting will be on 2014-07-22 @ 10:00 UTC. Please propose
discussion topics, with some content/details at:
http://piratepad.net/SailfishOSSMeetings

Add your name/nick if you suggest a topic and will present the topic at
the meeting, or name someone who should present.
*Inform the persons who are directly involved in the topic beforehand so
they can prepare and attend the meeting.
* Indicate how much time approximately you will need for the topic so we
can timebox the meeting accordingly.

NOTE: Propose your topic by Friday 18.7. Any topics added after that
will be considered for the following meeting.

Thanks,
Thomas

PS: Yes the BRA vs. GER match got that boring, that I'm writing meeting
minute mails…
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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Thomas B. Rücker]

Hi,

On 05/24/2014 04:34 PM, christopher.l...@thurweb.ch wrote:
> Hi Lauri
>
> That is an interesting perspective: my feeling / experience was
> exactly the opposite: the chief weakness of mailing lists is that they
> have no usability whatsoever: I get just a flat list of unorganised
> mails swamping my inbox.

That sounds like you don't have a good grip on your mailbox. But let me
pick apart your arguments below, one by one, just because I'm in the mood.


> That of course may be down to the weaknesses of the web-mail client I
> use. 

Indeed. But even there web clients usually, at the very least allow
sorting into folders and bypassing the inbox.


> I would welcome advice on "best-practice" tools for consuming mailing
> lists. I am (mostly) on OSX, sometimes on Windows and Linux. To quote
> Churchill "give us the tools and we will do the job".

I'm not going to recommend one particular MUA (Mail User Agent), that
would be like screaming Yehova at the top of my lungs.
There are clients aplenty, graphical, console, complicated, easy. Spend
an hour or two reading about mail clients and mailing lists. You'll
NEVER want to go back to forums.

In addition there are good web interfaces for reading up on mailing
lists. I use that if I'm not close to my personal MUA or not subscribed
to a list. See GMANE et al.


> From my point-of-view, plus points for usability of forums over
> mailing lists are (in no special order):
> * Stickies

That's a web-interface thing. The analogue would be a wiki page
introducing you to the mailing list, pointing out ground rules and a
link to a FAQ.


> * Sub forums
Mailing lists on mailman can have "topics", but I rarely see this used
outside lkml(?).
We are currently pondering a split to several mailing lists, that's the
other possibility.

> * Search

Most of the time I'm much faster searching either my mailing list
directory or the web archive of said list through the search engine of
my least distrust. (hint: add "site:lists.sailfishos.org" to your search)

> * Private Messages

I'm not sure if you are serious.
Did you hear about this thing called … email?


> * Edit previous posts (I could have used that today when I
> inadvertently clicked send too early)

Yes, that's an inherent limitation. Actually the only one in this mail
that I can't and won't pick apart.


> * Thread based perspective

Beat this:
http://ruecker.fi/foss/sailfish/Thunderbird_screenshot_2014-05-24T17:11:47.png
That's my Thunderbird. Other MUAs have different options. Everyone can
chose the way that fits their way of reading a list. Where as with a
forum you get ONE way or the highway.


> * Does not fill my mail file

If you are not using subdirectories, yes. Start using sub directories.
Or get an email account for mailing list usage. I see many people do that.


> * Visible metadata such as number of replies, date of most recent
> reply, number of posts etc.

Again threaded view gives you a good idea what's going on in a thread.


> Downsides of forums are:
> * yet another user/password to manage (although a forum could be
> integrated into together.jolla.com
> * yet another site to visit regularly (in addition to my mail client)

If you want a forum, TJC is already very close to it, including all the
downsides of horrible noise and impossible to find things. Even Jolla
loses track of important items there.


> * karma: so distracting, I prefer the simple egalitarianism /
> meritocracy of mailing lists

Could be folded into a mailing list feature too, just to annoy you. Just
kidding. But knowing the Intarwebz™, someone has done that already…



> Zitat von "Lauri Nurmi" :
>
>> 24.5.2014 13:56, christopher.l...@thurweb.ch kirjoitti:
>>> My suggestion is that rather than splitting into multiple mailing
>>> lists, which does not really cure anything, you replace the mailing
>>> lists with a forum. I agree it would be crazy to have both.
>>
>> -1
>>
>> Is there any forum platform whose usability is not totally terrible
>> compared to mailing lists?
>>
>> First of all, to be able to keep track of who has replied to whose
>> post, and which post, I want to see the posts as a tree. But offering
>> such a tree view seems to be very rare on forums.
>>


Still want to have a forum? ;-)


Cheers

Thomas

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[SailfishDevel] Sailfish developer planet - blog aggregator

[Thomas B. Rücker]

Hi,

this one has been around for a bit, but hasn't been discussed here so
far. I'd like to push it forward now.

At Devaamo we've been involved in Sailfish from the start and have
organized some local events that garnered a lot of interest.
We also run some infrastructure, like the community image hosting
service, that is e.g hosting Nemo and Sailfish N9/N950 images. It has
been around from the MeeGo times, when it was impossible to get help for
hosting community hardware adaptations.

So without further ado, Sailfish planet is now open:
http://planet.devaamo.fi/sailfish/

I'm soliciting input which blogs to add. So far there are only
three/four that have sailfish specific topics. I'm looking strictly for
developer and platform development topics. If there is also interest in
general topics we could consider a "jolla" planet for that?

To have a blog added, preferably email me directly and include BOTH the
blog URL, and a URL to the feed, if the blog covers multiple topics,
preferably a feed that filters posts and only returns those tagged e.g.
sailfish. (Most blogs offer that)

If you happen to know blogs about Mer and or Nemo, you can send me those
too. Their planets are here:
http://planet.devaamo.fi/mer
http://planet.devaamo.fi/nemo

Cheers

Thomas


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Re: [SailfishDevel] Weekly meeting about SailfishOS, open source, collaboration, way forward @ 22 April, 15:00 UTC

[Thomas B. Rücker]

Reminder: meeting starts in 50 min!
Also see statement below before meeting!

On 04/20/2014 04:01 PM, "Thomas B. Rücker" wrote:
> I haven't seen a meeting invitation/announcement by Jolla yet, so I'm
> stepping in. My apologies if it was already sent and I missed it.
>
> The next meeting has been agreed for:
> 2014-04-22T15:00 UTC
> That's 17:00 CEST (most of Europe)
> and 18:00 EEST (easternmost parts of Europe, including Finland)
> Meeting duration: 90min
> It will take place on #mer-meeting of Freenode IRC.
>
> Those without an IRC client can access it here:
> http://webchat.freenode.net?channels=mer-meeting
>
> The already known topics are:
>
> - community open source package repository for sailfish apps

I'd like to emphasize, that this is an important topic, it has been
brought up as early as March 2013 (sic!) on this mailing list.
Also given Jolla's claim to continue Maemo/MeeGo heritage carries such
things implicitly.
Maemo had extras, MeeGo had COBS and Harmattan had AppsForMeeGo.

Up until when I wrote the invitation mail there was zero public
statement from Jolla, the company, to people asking for such a repository.
This has been brought up on Jolla's community interaction / co-creation
platform:
https://together.jolla.com/question/13605/visible-open-source-app-community-supported-by-jolla/
This was also discussed during the community round-table at FOSDEM,
again no statement from Jolla the company had been made then.

The offer stands for months now, we're in a holding pattern as people
are not willing to commit countless hours of their private time towards
something that Jolla maybe doesn't even want. This is essentially free
work that would deliver significant value to Jolla's proposition.

I urge Jolla, the company, to make a public commitment, during that
meeting, to support the open source app community.

David summarized the minimum viable way on the device on IRC:
1) Settings -> Untrusted SW -> tick Allow, tick Install Chum client. Done
2) Store -> Chum client and select install -> Untrusted SW -> tick
Allow. Done

There are other aspects which will need to be agreed, but Jolla needs to
indicate that it is willing to consider this and what needs to be done
by the community for the mentioned above integration to be allowed.

> - closed bits of SailfishOS - why/where/how and relation to open source parts
> - plans on SailfishOS for Android
>
> The meeting chair will be Carol 'Cybette' Chen, Jolla Community Chief.
>
> Please familiarize yourself with the topics.
> Should you have agenda proposals or need for upfront discussion, please
> reply to this email on the mailing list.
>
> Logging and meeting management will be done through a MeetBot (MerBot).
> I'd recommend that everyone familiarizes themselves with the common commands 
> the MeetBot understands:
> https://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot (Howto, commands for everyone)
>
> Previous meeting minutes and follow up discussion:
> https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2014-April/003925.html
>
> Cheers
>
> Thomas
> a community member
>
> PS: We're _currently_ sticking with the 1500z slot and weekly on
> Tuesday. This should be brought up in a /separate/ discussion. The
> current time does not fit potential Australian participants very well.
>

Cheers

Thomas
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[SailfishDevel] Weekly meeting about SailfishOS, open source, collaboration, way forward @ 22 April, 15:00 UTC

[Thomas B. Rücker]

I haven't seen a meeting invitation/announcement by Jolla yet, so I'm
stepping in. My apologies if it was already sent and I missed it.

The next meeting has been agreed for:
2014-04-22T15:00 UTC
That's 17:00 CEST (most of Europe)
and 18:00 EEST (easternmost parts of Europe, including Finland)
Meeting duration: 90min
It will take place on #mer-meeting of Freenode IRC.

Those without an IRC client can access it here:
http://webchat.freenode.net?channels=mer-meeting

The already known topics are:

- community open source package repository for sailfish apps
- closed bits of SailfishOS - why/where/how and relation to open source parts
- plans on SailfishOS for Android

The meeting chair will be Carol 'Cybette' Chen, Jolla Community Chief.

Please familiarize yourself with the topics.
Should you have agenda proposals or need for upfront discussion, please
reply to this email on the mailing list.

Logging and meeting management will be done through a MeetBot (MerBot).
I'd recommend that everyone familiarizes themselves with the common commands 
the MeetBot understands:
https://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot (Howto, commands for everyone)

Previous meeting minutes and follow up discussion:
https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2014-April/003925.html

Cheers

Thomas
a community member

PS: We're _currently_ sticking with the 1500z slot and weekly on
Tuesday. This should be brought up in a /separate/ discussion. The
current time does not fit potential Australian participants very well.
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[SailfishDevel] [Minutes][FollowUp] A kickoff meeting about SailfishOS, open source, collaboration, way forward @ 15 April, 15:00 UTC

[Thomas B. Rücker]

Hi,

thanks to everyone for the great discussion. It was a pleasure to chair it.
Without further ado, here are the meeting minutes:

Minutes:   
http://merproject.org/meetings/mer-meeting/2014/mer-meeting.2014-04-15-15.00.html
Minutes (text):
http://merproject.org/meetings/mer-meeting/2014/mer-meeting.2014-04-15-15.00.txt
Log:   
http://merproject.org/meetings/mer-meeting/2014/mer-meeting.2014-04-15-15.00.log.html

For follow up discussion just answer to this email/thread.

The next meeting will be at2014-04-22T15:00 UTC.
Invitation and topics will be posted separately.

Thanks again

Thomas B. Rücker
meeting chair

PS: Currently the minutes have a charset encoding problem. I'll have a
look at that and fix manually if necessary.
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Re: [SailfishDevel] 'soemthing like maemo-extras' discussions and meeting Re: A kickoff meeting about SailfishOS, open source, collaboration, way forward @ 15 April, 15:00 UTC

[Thomas B. Rücker]

On 04/05/2014 07:41 AM, Carsten Munk wrote:
> On 05/04/14 09:27, "Thomas B. Rücker" wrote:
>> On 04/04/2014 04:00 PM, Carsten Munk wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> There has been a lot of discussion surrounding SailfishOS, the open
>>> source parts of it (incl. middleware within Mer and Nemo Mobile
>>> project) and collaboration methods/practices -- and that we can do
>>> better than how things are today.
>>> [...]
>>> The focus point is about the SailfishOS stack's current open source
>>> components and how we can improve the experience of contributing,
>>> communicating regarding and participating in them as well as
>>> encouraging this.
>>
>> Just to clarify that I understood the above statement correctly, this
>> meeting will be only about SailfishOS as a platform?
>
> Yes, just to make sure we limit scope a bit of that particular
> session- it's very easy to diverge into discussions of SailfishOS UI
> and open source status of that and a lot of other potential topics
> within one meeting; so this is one way to make sure we stay within
> scope to solve one problem at a time and do it in a concentrated manner.
>
>>
>> In the space of applications and not platform, there is the lingering
>> and continuously unaddressed point of "something like maemo-extras",
>> which still has seen ZERO public reaction from Jolla (the company, not
>> personal statements from people who happen to be sailors). The community
>> is here to help, but by now I have the feeling that this particular ship
>> has sailed, forever. Acknowledging that Jolla has accepted the status
>> quo would be OK too.
> >
> > Still frustrated and waiting for clarity in Jolla's intentions - It
> > takes two to Tango.
>
> I think we should probably have a separate meeting for this as it's
> also a very valid topic to be discussed.

That is why I posed the question, it felt to likely be out of scope.


> When would it fit you and others and what agenda items / participants
> would be useful? Initial thoughts include people from
> Harbour/Developer relations/Store/Release management and somebody from
> the SailfishOS 'Helm' (direction makers) to represent ability to take
> actions.

Someone able to commit Jolla to certain things is vital for this to be
viable.

I personally don't have preferences about the date. The time slot within
the day of the other meeting fits me and would probably be good to reuse
with different date, I can't speak for others though.


> I'd advise post the 15th April personally.

I think that's a natural choice, as platform decisions may affect this.

Cheers

Thomas
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Re: [SailfishDevel] A kickoff meeting about SailfishOS, open source, collaboration, way forward @ 15 April, 15:00 UTC

[Thomas B. Rücker]

On 04/05/2014 08:21 AM, "Thomas B. Rücker" wrote:
> On 04/05/2014 08:12 AM, Carsten Munk wrote:
>> On 04/04/14 19:39, Filip Kłębczyk wrote:
>>> W dniu 04.04.2014 18:00, Carsten Munk pisze:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> There has been a lot of discussion surrounding SailfishOS, the open
>>>> source parts of it (incl. middleware within Mer and Nemo Mobile
>>>> project)
>>>> and collaboration methods/practices -- and that we can do better than
>>>> how things are today.
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Your mail is direct reaction to this widely retweeted tweet today:
>>>
>>> https://twitter.com/fk_lx/status/452037379038408704
>>>
>>> and previous discussion that was conducted on Twitter. It's worth to
>>> notice problem was published long time ago at Together, before it became
>>> hot:
>>>
>>> https://together.jolla.com/question/680/co-creation-leading-to-co-development/#post-id-1214
>>>
>>>
>>> https://together.jolla.com/question/680/co-creation-leading-to-co-development/#post-id-6833
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Since that time, no significant actions have been taken to fix that, but
>>> that can be understood and justified considering other important things
>>> for Jolla like preparing to MWC and Sailfish going out of beta.
>>>
>> It's safe to say that we've been in a crazy race to conditionally
>> deliver features, fixes and ensuring our existence.
>>
>> We would probably have had more time if we didn't switch SoC and do a
>> Qt4->Qt5 + X11/Wayland transition; it's been too busy and we've lagged
>> behind in doing proper open development with roadmapping ('Do
>> everything needed to deliver a working product' isn't a good roadmap
>> item), explaining our actions, transparency around our open source
>> components. It's a good time to something about it now.
>>
>> The discussions you link to have been a big source of inspiration to
>> do something about this topic, as there has been many valid points in
>> them.
>>
>>> We would really like to have constructive talk with the decisive people
>>> around Sailfish, that have real influence and can change how open source
>>> collaboration looks in practice (whoever those people are).
>>> We also want
>>> for Jolla engineers who work on open source parts take part in that
>>> discussion, as it's a topic that is directly connected with their work.
>> I will do my best to make sure that the right people will be there - a
>> meeting where nobody can take actions or act on the meeting results
>> isn't a good one.
>>
>>> I only have doubts that if it will be normal, uncontrolled IRC
>>> discussion, that it might result in chaos (like many of those that were
>>> made on this topic on IRC before).
>>> I wanted to give my own proposal how
>>> such discussion should look like from organizational point of view, so
>>> there would be a chance for it's results to be satisfying for both sides
>>> (Jolla & OSS community).
>>>
>> I agree, we still have time to set up an agenda - first thing you need
>> to do is set a date in advance to make sure people will show up, then
>> a proper agenda.
>>
>> I've opened an etherpad at http://piratepad.net/SailfishOSSMeeting -
>> please add topics for discussion.
>>
>> Agenda is intentionally left blank as to make sure proper agenda items
>> are brought up.   
>>
>> A background thing for this meeting is that (this is with my Mer and
>> Nemo middleware hat on), there is an idea and/or intention is to merge
>> the Mer and Nemo middleware repositories and infrastructure
>> (bugtracker, git repositories, OBS repositories) together under the
>> Mer project.
>>
>> There has been a long unnatural split between Mer and Nemo middleware
>> and a bit unclear one sometimes; causing also a semi-fork of Mer
>> packages (Qt5) as Mer couldn't move fast enough. In the end, what most
>> want from Mer is a solid mobile core and hence ended up using a
>> combination of Mer and Nemo middleware anyway.
>>
>> In that regard, there is a good opportunity to establish new practices
>> and patterns of collaboration, hence why this meeting is a good thing
>> to start with.
>>
>> In the ideal future world from my point of view, if you'd like to
>> contribute to SailfishOS open source middleware; you'd be contributing
>>

Re: [SailfishDevel] A kickoff meeting about SailfishOS, open source, collaboration, way forward @ 15 April, 15:00 UTC

[Thomas B. Rücker]

On 04/05/2014 08:12 AM, Carsten Munk wrote:
> On 04/04/14 19:39, Filip Kłębczyk wrote:
>> W dniu 04.04.2014 18:00, Carsten Munk pisze:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> There has been a lot of discussion surrounding SailfishOS, the open
>>> source parts of it (incl. middleware within Mer and Nemo Mobile
>>> project)
>>> and collaboration methods/practices -- and that we can do better than
>>> how things are today.
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Your mail is direct reaction to this widely retweeted tweet today:
>>
>> https://twitter.com/fk_lx/status/452037379038408704
>>
>> and previous discussion that was conducted on Twitter. It's worth to
>> notice problem was published long time ago at Together, before it became
>> hot:
>>
>> https://together.jolla.com/question/680/co-creation-leading-to-co-development/#post-id-1214
>>
>>
>> https://together.jolla.com/question/680/co-creation-leading-to-co-development/#post-id-6833
>>
>>
>>
>> Since that time, no significant actions have been taken to fix that, but
>> that can be understood and justified considering other important things
>> for Jolla like preparing to MWC and Sailfish going out of beta.
>>
>
> It's safe to say that we've been in a crazy race to conditionally
> deliver features, fixes and ensuring our existence.
>
> We would probably have had more time if we didn't switch SoC and do a
> Qt4->Qt5 + X11/Wayland transition; it's been too busy and we've lagged
> behind in doing proper open development with roadmapping ('Do
> everything needed to deliver a working product' isn't a good roadmap
> item), explaining our actions, transparency around our open source
> components. It's a good time to something about it now.
>
> The discussions you link to have been a big source of inspiration to
> do something about this topic, as there has been many valid points in
> them.
>
>> We would really like to have constructive talk with the decisive people
>> around Sailfish, that have real influence and can change how open source
>> collaboration looks in practice (whoever those people are).
> > We also want
>> for Jolla engineers who work on open source parts take part in that
>> discussion, as it's a topic that is directly connected with their work.
>
> I will do my best to make sure that the right people will be there - a
> meeting where nobody can take actions or act on the meeting results
> isn't a good one.
>
>> I only have doubts that if it will be normal, uncontrolled IRC
>> discussion, that it might result in chaos (like many of those that were
>> made on this topic on IRC before).
>
>> I wanted to give my own proposal how
>> such discussion should look like from organizational point of view, so
>> there would be a chance for it's results to be satisfying for both sides
>> (Jolla & OSS community).
> >
>
> I agree, we still have time to set up an agenda - first thing you need
> to do is set a date in advance to make sure people will show up, then
> a proper agenda.
>
> I've opened an etherpad at http://piratepad.net/SailfishOSSMeeting -
> please add topics for discussion.
>
> Agenda is intentionally left blank as to make sure proper agenda items
> are brought up.   
>
> A background thing for this meeting is that (this is with my Mer and
> Nemo middleware hat on), there is an idea and/or intention is to merge
> the Mer and Nemo middleware repositories and infrastructure
> (bugtracker, git repositories, OBS repositories) together under the
> Mer project.
>
> There has been a long unnatural split between Mer and Nemo middleware
> and a bit unclear one sometimes; causing also a semi-fork of Mer
> packages (Qt5) as Mer couldn't move fast enough. In the end, what most
> want from Mer is a solid mobile core and hence ended up using a
> combination of Mer and Nemo middleware anyway.
>
> In that regard, there is a good opportunity to establish new practices
> and patterns of collaboration, hence why this meeting is a good thing
> to start with.
>
> In the ideal future world from my point of view, if you'd like to
> contribute to SailfishOS open source middleware; you'd be contributing
> to Mer. Currently it is too confusing to contribute to - too much
> split information, different practices, different bugtrackers, even
> differing packaging practices, etc.

Reading this I can't help but wonder if Jolla now claims ownership of
Mer/Nemo then. Even with fancy hat changing. Bringing this discussion up
in a strictly Sailfish context implies this.
There are other downstream projects relying on Mer and I'd expect this
to be discussed with them, in a completely "vendor neutral" setting. Mer
used to be big about this, before it got dragged into a "ship a product"
race of one of the involved parties.


>> I haven't had time to made it yet, because I
>> had quite busy day, but I hope the fact that Carsten already took first
>> step and proposed a meeting does still give me a chance for doing that.
>> I think it's really important for the discussion to have proper and calm
>> form and I think it's possible consid

Re: [SailfishDevel] A kickoff meeting about SailfishOS, open source, collaboration, way forward @ 15 April, 15:00 UTC

[Thomas B. Rücker]

On 04/04/2014 04:00 PM, Carsten Munk wrote:
> Hi,
>
> There has been a lot of discussion surrounding SailfishOS, the open
> source parts of it (incl. middleware within Mer and Nemo Mobile
> project) and collaboration methods/practices -- and that we can do
> better than how things are today.
> [...]
> The focus point is about the SailfishOS stack's current open source
> components and how we can improve the experience of contributing,
> communicating regarding and participating in them as well as
> encouraging this.

Just to clarify that I understood the above statement correctly, this
meeting will be only about SailfishOS as a platform?

In the space of applications and not platform, there is the lingering
and continuously unaddressed point of "something like maemo-extras",
which still has seen ZERO public reaction from Jolla (the company, not
personal statements from people who happen to be sailors). The community
is here to help, but by now I have the feeling that this particular ship
has sailed, forever. Acknowledging that Jolla has accepted the status
quo would be OK too.

Still frustrated and waiting for clarity in Jolla's intentions - It 
takes two to Tango.

Thomas
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Re: [SailfishDevel] Adding tinc to mer-tools

[Thomas B. Rücker]

On 03/30/2014 10:47 AM, Graham Cobb wrote:
> On 30/03/14 08:05, "Thomas B. Rücker" wrote:
>> On 03/29/2014 11:44 PM, Graham Cobb wrote:
>>> I have taken the tinc rpm source from CentOS (tinc-1.0.23-1.el5.src.rpm)
>>> and rebuilt it on my jolla phone (using rpmbuild --rebuild).  It seems
>>> to work fine.
>> That's nice. I guess it's CLI only and you'll have to figure out to
>> fight connman over resetting routes? 
> Yes, and yes.  I will look into connman next.
>
>> I should try it against my TINC server.
> I will make the RPM available shortly (a bit more testing, and I will
> re-look at the packaging as per your advice).
>
> After that, I will look into Chum.  I suspect I will have to go ahead
> and install the SDK if I am going to start using OBS.  I was trying to
> see how much I could do with just HTML5 apps (and rpm packaging tools).

Actually all you'll need will be a recent 'osc' (OBS client), to talk to
OBS.

Following David's comment I'd suggest to look at "osc copypac"ing that
package into your OBS home project and then figuring out necessary
modifications to the spec file, apply what you learned from your RPM, etc.

Cheers

Thomas

PS: If you don't have a Mer account yet:
https://bugs.merproject.org/createaccount.cgi and then log into
https://build.merproject.org/ with your web-browser once (makes it pull
in your user from LDAP and creates entries).
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Re: [SailfishDevel] Adding tinc to mer-tools

[Thomas B. Rücker]

On 03/29/2014 11:44 PM, Graham Cobb wrote:
> I have taken the tinc rpm source from CentOS (tinc-1.0.23-1.el5.src.rpm)
> and rebuilt it on my jolla phone (using rpmbuild --rebuild).  It seems
> to work fine.

That's nice. I guess it's CLI only and you'll have to figure out to
fight connman over resetting routes? (Someone mentioned the old openVPN
windows hack of 0.0.0.0/1 and 128.0.0.1 yesterday at the Devaamo hack day)

I should try it against my TINC server.

> Can I contribute it to Mer so it eventually appears in the mer-tools
> repository?  Can anyone point me to how I would start that? 

I'm not really sure what the rules for inclusion into mer-tools are,
although VPN tools do make sense. I think there was someone else trying
to get a VPN client in.

An option that would make TINC available quicker and stay up to date
with Sailfish updates and dependencies, would be to submit it for
inclusion into Chum, the community repository for open source software
(Think maemo extras).

For this, put your package on mer OBS and then submit it from your home
repository to: sailfishos:chum:1.0.4.20:testing
As of right now, that's update 4, look up the right one in case there
are newer updates here:
https://build.merproject.org/project/subprojects?project=sailfishos%3Achum

If you need help with OBS, I'd suggest to ask on IRC: #sailfishos on
Freenode

>  Is it OK to
> use a package from another distribution or would I have to go back to
> the upstream tar and re-package it myself?

Sure it's OK to leverage existing packaging, but please make sure that
the package doesn't have any $other-distributionisms left in it,
especially as those could negatively affect the device. Those things
will actually be checked against once you submit your request on OBS and
will be also relevant for later moving it into mer-tools.

Further questions are probably best answered by lbt (David) as he's
techically responsible for both.

Cheers

Thomas
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Re: [SailfishDevel] SMS for m2m communication

[Thomas B. Rücker]

On 03/24/2014 04:30 AM, Pasi Patama wrote:
> If this is indeed possible, is there any other documentation available
> than 'Google' ? I think you should re-evaluate this possibility and
> not to follow Apple's footsteps blindly, because there are tons of
> applications which would benefit for this possibility.

Have a look at the list archives, I remember posting in a thread that
had exactly that topic. That was even way before launch, probably early
2013.


Cheers

Thomas


>
> On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 9:00 PM, Jonni Rainisto
> mailto:jonni.raini...@jolla.com>> wrote:
>
> We dont allow Harbour applications to send hidden SMS messages to
> avoid malware. Sending sms should require user interaction ie.
> message is opened in common message UI and end user needs to press
> send manually.
>
> For non-harbour apps, you can use google search.
>
> re, Jonni
> 
> *From:* devel-boun...@lists.sailfishos.org
> 
> [devel-boun...@lists.sailfishos.org
> ] on behalf of Pasi
> Patama [ppafindevelopm...@gmail.com
> ]
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 23, 2014 8:09 PM
> *To:* devel@lists.sailfishos.org 
> *Subject:* [SailfishDevel] SMS for m2m communication
>
> I am after m2m communication (to and from Jolla phone) over SMS.
> Is there documented way to send and receive SMS's within
> application done with SDK ?
>
> All this should happen without user interactions, when needed. Any
> clues ?
>
> Pasi
>
> ___
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>
>
>
>
> ___
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Re: [SailfishDevel] SMS for m2m communication

[Thomas B. Rücker]

On 03/29/2014 05:03 PM, k...@iol.cz wrote:
>
> Mikael, know you things: opensource, git, OBS service .. ???
>

Those you can have right now and there is some limited effort with
"Chum" on Mer OBS.


> I like ideas as Maemo4-extras repo - only one way to this repo exist:
> automatic build from opensource "git" place. I know "this binary is
> builded from exact this sources".

That's exactly one of the main propositions of Chum.

The current problems are: not many packages get submitted to this
repository, because not many people know about it and "the community"
would need to spend some time thinking /together/ with Jolla about how
this should be organized. If you want to help, get in touch with lbt
(David).


Cheers

Thomas

PS: If you want to know more look at the previous discussion of this
topic on this mailing list.
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Re: [SailfishDevel] FOSDEM Community follow-up - open source app community

[Thomas B. Rücker]

Hi Andrey,

On 02/04/2014 10:45 AM, Andrey Kozhevnikov wrote:
> Blaming openrepos again? Are you serious?


I would suggest to get back to a sensible discussion. There is no value
in ad-hominem attacks and insults, that just tends to disqualify the
person throwing them around.

As you dragged out the topic of openrepos, let me offer some
clarification, also as other people might wonder where this came from.

I am personally quite critical of openrepos for various reasons.
Foremost as it swings to the other end of the spectrum, offering no QA
and no verification as opposed to the rather strict submission process
of Harbour. Relying solely on ratings, comments, reputation.
They have recently reacted to my criticism and started introducing
changes/improvements. I applaud this. Still I am of the opinion that the
underlying concept is not well suited for wider adoption. The
intricacies do not fall under this topic, but I'll be happy to discuss
them elsewhere.
Last time I checked, I was living in a country where I am free to voice
my opinion and I intend to continue to do so.

On the other hand I'd like to point out that my initial mail in this
thread was attempting to summarize a *community* *round-table*, which
took place during FOSDEM and was attended by about 25 people.
Many people weighed in and arguments were made for *both* sides. In the
end the consensus was that openrepos is not suitable for a pure open
source app development community repository.

I'd appreciate if we could now let this sub-thread rest and get back to
the really urgent topic, that is figuring out how Jolla can support the
nascent open source app community around Sailfish.

Best regards

Thomas
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[SailfishDevel] FOSDEM Community follow-up - open source app community

[Thomas B. Rücker]

My question has been lingering for a while. (
https://together.jolla.com/question/13605/visible-open-source-app-community-supported-by-jolla/
)

But during FOSDEM we had a Sailfish/Jolla Community Round-Table (
https://together.jolla.com/question/11303/are-you-going-to-fosdem-2014-irl-floss-meeting-in-belgium/?answer=13864#post-id-13864
). This topic was brought up and seems Sailors are committed to address
this with pushing forward towards a clean open source app repository
with community QA and easy on-device access after enabling developer mode.

This would provide something like Maemo Extras and would be community
QA'd to ensure the apps don't pose major problems when installed. On the
other hand it would provide an easy middle ground for apps that don't
fit into harbour for various reasons (API calls, dependencies, etc.).

It will be backed by an OBS project on Mer community OBS, which has
Sailfish targets. OBS has come a very long way since we've seen it
first. I've personally had several apps build out of the box by just
_clicking_:
* create package
* source provision through tar_git
If the app builds on a clean SDK, then it's highly likely to build out
of the box also on OBS.

You may now say "what about openrepos?". They have chosen to be a site
for one-click RPM hosting repositories with no QA. Despite their best
efforts this approach has led to significant problems. Also it does
binary only uploads and thus non-free/closed applications and no
traceable chain from source to binary.
That said, if the openrepos client (warehouse) passes community QA it
will for sure be included in the community repository. Thus allowing
users to install it easily, if they so wish. We're not hostile towards
it, it just doesn't offer the level of trust to be a viable avenue for a
default community repository.

This is a PERSONAL summary of MY recollection of the FOSDEM discussion
on this topic. I hope that Jolla will now finally back this up and we
will see Sailors working towards this.

For those who already want to get started, there is a SailfishOS target
on OBS and a community repository called "Chum" where applications will
be visible in the future.
https://build.merproject.org/project/subprojects?project=sailfishos

Cheers

Thomas
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Re: [SailfishDevel] file permissions of user data files

[Thomas B. Rücker]

On 08/11/2013 12:21 PM, Wim de Vries wrote:
> Hi,
> I am trying to save a file from within my app.
> I can read the file, not write to it:
>
> cannot open "/etc/ssh/authorized_keys/checklists/GEO1" ; "Permission
> denied"
> From within ubuntu I have made the file (GEO1) and dir (checklists)
> r/w for all.
> Thanks.
>
>

Why are you as a *user* trying to write to /etc/?
That's usually completely off limits and for very good reasons I must say.

Cheers

Thomas
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Re: [SailfishDevel] Sending SMS Messages from Sailfish Alpha 2

[Thomas B. Rücker]

On 08/09/2013 10:24 PM, John Brooks wrote:
> On Aug 7, 2013, at 1:14 PM, Thomas B. Rücker  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> let me join this conversation, as I have a similar use-case.
>>
>> On 08/07/2013 06:19 PM, John Brooks wrote:
>>> On Aug 7, 2013, at 2:19 AM, christopher.l...@thurweb.ch wrote:
>> My use case is related. I'm thinking about push notifications, generic
>> (although I have a specific use case too). As there is currently nothing
>> in that sense in Nemo/Sailfish I am pondering to base this on the XMPP
>> protocol, that's also available through Telepathy. Although technically
>> it could be interesting to be open to other protocols including SMS.
>> Here it would be good if my daemon could receive messages to a certain
>> Telepathy account and they would not appear in the UI, but would be
>> processed only by the daemon (e.g. triggering Feed events or dbus calls
>> or ...). In other situations it might be useful to listen in on messages
>> received by regular accounts though, too.
>>
>> If you're wondering what prompted me to spin up this idea. I own a
>> Metawatch, a kind of smart watch, and want to use it with Sailfish/Nemo,
>> also to receive push notifications from my Irssi IRC client. This
>> currently works quite well with SOWatch under Harmattan already. Just
>> that the raw messages show up in the UI.
>>
> Interesting idea! Using Telepathy for push notifications would be ideal, 
> since it handles connectivity and would abstract the underlying protocol and 
> server choice away. Here's what you could do:
>
> commhistory-daemon (https://github.com/nemomobile/commhistory-daemon) 
> observes all Telepathy text channels and is responsible for notifications and 
> logging. It would need to be modified to ignore channels for accounts with 
> some property indicating that they shouldn't be user-visible. If I go through 
> with my idea to make commhistory-daemon a handler instead of an observer, 
> that could become much easier (because you could use an observer or approver 
> to ensure that your own handler receives your channels, instead of 
> commhistory-daemon).
>
> Then, you'd want to provide a Telepathy handler to receive and accept text 
> channels on your notification account. That just takes a little bit of code 
> with TelepathyQt, and could easily be exposed to allow handling from QML. You 
> could also use TelepathyQt to create and manage the accounts used for 
> notifications. If you install the right files (see 
> https://github.com/nemomobile/qmlmessages/tree/master/data qmlmessages.client 
> and org.freedesktop.*), you can even make sure that your daemon/application 
> is launched automatically to handle them.
>
> It'd be interesting to see that idea developed into a push notification 
> framework available to other applications. Keep me informed if you decide to 
> pursue it ;)

Just a short reply right now.
Yes, the beauty would also be that if something more efficient as a
transport protocol becomes available, then you can just plug that into
Telepathy and be done with it. It has been argued that XMPP is not a
good protocol for this and is not power efficient. While I see this for
the generic use case (lots of bastardized XML going hence and forth for
every person in your list going online/offline/unavailable/...), this
could actually work much better for an isolated channel where there is
not much other traffic than keeping the TCP connection alive and the
actual data push from the server.

Cheers

Thomas
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Re: [SailfishDevel] QTLocation not part of QT5, what to do?

[Thomas B. Rücker]

On 08/08/2013 12:38 AM, Aaron McCarthy wrote:
>
> On Wed, 7 Aug 2013 05:34:14 PM christopher.l...@thurweb.ch wrote:
>
> > > "I believe the goal for QtLocation to be included with Qt is 5.2..."
>
> >
>
> > But isn't QtLocation included in the SailfishAlpha 2 ?
>
> >
>
> > I am confused on this: In the Alpha2 toolchain I find
>
> >
> /Users/christopherlamb/SailfishOSAlpha5/mersdk/targets/SailfishOS-i486-x86/u
>
> > sr/lib/qt5/qml/QtLocation.
>
> >
>
> > The SDK Control Center also shows qt5-qtlocation is installed in the
>
> > toolchain.
>
>  
>
> Qt Location will be included in the SDK.
>

That's great to hear, as many apps use location nowadays.


> > On the Emulator, "zypper se location" showed qt5-qtlocation was not
>
> > installed, so I ran "zypper in qt5-qtlocation".
>
> >
>
> > However when I ran my app, I get the error
>
> > "
>
> >
> file:///opt/sdk/landedQt5_21/usr/share/landedQt5_21/otherqml/GPSApp.qml:6:1:
>
> > module "QtLocation" is not installed
>
> > import QtLocation 5.0
>
> > "
>
>  
>
> qt5-qtlocation includes only the C++ library. To use with QML you will
> also need:
>
>  
>
> qt5-qtdeclarative-import-location the QML import plugin
>
>  
>
> and at least one geoservices plugin, either
> qt5-qtlocation-plugin-geoservices-nokia or
> qt5-qtlocation-plugin-geoservices-osm
>

Possibly something for the Mer/Nemo community to step up, but I'll
mention it here.
I'd recommend to add/include support for GPSd or simply serial NMEA too.
That way it would be possible to hook up a bluetooth GPS (through USB-BT
dongle) or a USB or RS232C GPS to the virtual machine and have a real,
reasonably high accuracy, location stream available.

Cheers

Thomas
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Re: [SailfishDevel] Sending SMS Messages from Sailfish Alpha 2

[Thomas B. Rücker]

On 08/07/2013 08:19 PM, christopher.l...@thurweb.ch wrote:
> Hi John
>
> Thanks for extensive answer.
>
>> You're barking up the right tree. This is an area of the stack I want
>> to change at some point, but for now, here's how it works:
>
> It's good to hear that I was heading in the right direction, I will
> start looking deeper into this tomorrow morning on the train.

*snip*

BTW: there are two approaches to test the functionality in the emulator
if you're interested.

a) hook up a phone/modem through USB to the VM and configure ofono to
talk AT commands to it. This should at the very least get you SMS, but
probably also phone calls and data. Probably a bit more complex to set
up than the following one though.
b) substitute /org/freedesktop/Telepathy/Account/ring/tel/account0 with
something like:
/org/freedesktop/Telepathy/Account/gabble/jabber/john_40example_2eorg0
aka a XMPP/Jabber account. As Telepathy abstracts those things, it
should behave (almost?) the same.

To create a XMPP account from the command line you can use:
mc-tool add gabble/jabber john@example string:account=j...@example.org
string:password=foobar string:server=jabber.example.org
bool:require-encryption=1 bool:ignore-ssl-errors=1
(note the last one is an UGLY workaround in case you use a local server
with a self-signed cert)
mc-tool enable gabble/jabber/john_40example_2eorg0

HTH, cheers

Thomas

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Re: [SailfishDevel] Sending SMS Messages from Sailfish Alpha 2

[Thomas B. Rücker]

Hi,

let me join this conversation, as I have a similar use-case.

On 08/07/2013 06:19 PM, John Brooks wrote:
> On Aug 7, 2013, at 2:19 AM, christopher.l...@thurweb.ch wrote:
>
>> Hi All
>>
>> I am in the middle of migrating one of my apps "Landed" to the new Alpha 2.
>>
>> The primary function of Landed is to send SMSes.
> Cool :)
>
>> In the good old days of the first Alpha and Qt4 to do this I used a bit of 
>> code modelled on the solution here:
>> http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/QML_SMShelper_Plugin
>>
>> i.e. I was using QMessaging from Qt Mobility.
>>
>> As Qt Mobility is not yet migrated to Qt 5 this begs the question, what is 
>> now the recommended way to Sends SMSes from Sailfish on Qt5?
>>
>> The excellent porting page  https://sailfishos.org/wiki/Porting/Harmattan 
>> points me to Qt5 Additional Modules, but I couldn't find anything there of 
>> use.
> I don't expect we'll offer any API from Qt itself for this.
>
>> The same porting page also suggests Nemo Mobile QML Plugins, so I had a look 
>> at these.
>>
>> In GitHub I found the following
>>
>> https://github.com/nemomobile/nemo-qml-plugins
>> https://github.com/nemomobile/nemo-qml-plugin-messages
>> https://github.com/nemomobile/qmlmessages
>>
>> The nemo-qml-plugin-messages initially sounds promising, but the readme (at 
>> the bottom of this mail) indicates that it si for internal use only. It 
>> points to nemo-qml-plugins. But this is an empty project!
>>
>> I have downloaded all 3 projects, but before I spend too much time 
>> investigating these further I thought I would double check here that I am 
>> not barking up the wrong tree.
>>
>> So is this the recommended way to Send SMSes, or is there a "better" 
>> approach?
> You're barking up the right tree. This is an area of the stack I want to 
> change at some point, but for now, here's how it works:
>
> Telepathy is used for SMS messaging along with all IM; SMS is sent and 
> received using text channels for the ring/tel/account0 account. The 
> nemo-qml-plugin-messages plugin implements the basic parts of Telepathy 
> functionality needed for an application (like qmlmessages) to send those 
> messages.
>
> commhistory-daemon and libcommhistory monitor Telepathy and record events, 
> including all sent and received messages. That's what qmlmessages and other 
> clients are displaying.
>
> Unfortunately, the README is right: nemo-qml-plugin-messages is only usable 
> from one application at a time, because it registers a Telepathy handler (and 
> registers it under a static name). That problem could be easily fixed.
>
> After that, it would be possible to use the ConversationChannel API to 
> establish a channel and send/receive messages on it from QML, like:
>
> property var currentChannel: 
> handler.getConversation("/org/freedesktop/Telepathy/Account/ring/tel/account0",
>  "12345")
> onClicked: currentChannel.sendMessage("Hello world")
>
> Those messages and any responses to them would appear normally in the 
> messaging client, as if the user had sent them manually.
>
> So here's my question: What do you need in a basic messaging API? Is the 
> above (once usable from multiple applications) sufficient, or do you need to 
> prevent these messages from being in the user's message history? Would simple 
> dbus calls somewhere be nicer to use?

My use case is related. I'm thinking about push notifications, generic
(although I have a specific use case too). As there is currently nothing
in that sense in Nemo/Sailfish I am pondering to base this on the XMPP
protocol, that's also available through Telepathy. Although technically
it could be interesting to be open to other protocols including SMS.
Here it would be good if my daemon could receive messages to a certain
Telepathy account and they would not appear in the UI, but would be
processed only by the daemon (e.g. triggering Feed events or dbus calls
or ...). In other situations it might be useful to listen in on messages
received by regular accounts though, too.

If you're wondering what prompted me to spin up this idea. I own a
Metawatch, a kind of smart watch, and want to use it with Sailfish/Nemo,
also to receive push notifications from my Irssi IRC client. This
currently works quite well with SOWatch under Harmattan already. Just
that the raw messages show up in the UI.


>> m.f.g
>>
>> Chris
>> "
>> This QML plugin implements logic for the qmlmessages application and other UI
>> implementations. It is not meant to be used by any other applications, or by
>> more than one process simultaniously. It is installed as 
>> org.nemomobile.messages.internal.
>>
>> For external API, see nemo-qml-plugins, which provides 
>> org.nemomobile.messages.
>> "

Cheers

Thomas
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Re: [SailfishDevel] Is there a bug tracker?

[Thomas B. Rücker]

On 08/07/2013 11:11 AM, Robin Burchell wrote:
> On 7. aug. 2013, at 12:53, christopher.l...@thurweb.ch wrote:
>> This always struck me as a little bit weak / weird. I would have thought 
>> that a small team working hard on a fast developing project needs a bug 
>> tracking tool just as much as any other, possibly even more so.
> We have one internally. We also have several external ones that are 
> occasionally referred to in various upstream projects we work with like Qt. 
> Adding one more to that isn't going to be helpful to us, and it won't be 
> helpful to you either, as there won't be enough people paying attention.
>
> I can understand why you would want a tracker - but I think we can both agree 
> that a tracker that is mostly neglected by us isn't of benefit to anyone.

Yeah, let's not go back to things like the infamous public Harmattan
tracker...
Though there the platform being doomed certainly didn't help either.

TBR
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Re: [SailfishDevel] Is there a bug tracker?

[Thomas B. Rücker]

On 08/07/2013 10:53 AM, christopher.l...@thurweb.ch wrote:
> This always struck me as a little bit weak / weird. I would have
> thought that a small team working hard on a fast developing project
> needs a bug tracking tool just as much as any other, possibly even
> more so. But I agree, it does not need to be formal, but there should
> be something to ensure that issues don't get lost.

I am 110% sure, that the Jolla team uses a issue tracker internally.
Given Mer and Nemo are using BZ, I'd even hazard a guess, that it's also BZ.

> This list is great for discussing stuff we find. As we are all
> learning, many of our problems may not actually be caused by bugs,
> rather by mistakes we are making. But if after a bit of discussion it
> is decided that the behaviour is down to a bug, then it would be great
> to be able to park the issue somewhere knowing it won't get lost.

The burden here, lies obviously with the Jolla employees, reading and
commenting on this list. Of course we can do our part to make their life
easier, by essentially writing good bug reports, maybe even formatted
for easy copy-paste to BZ. If a bug is discovered, reported on the list
and then ack'd, by someone using a jollamobile.com email address or
otherwise obviously a Jolla employee, then we should be able to trust,
that they have filed this bug internally and it won't get lost. If we
can't trust in that, then everything is moot and we could as well go
shopping.


my 0,02€

Thomas

> Zitat von "Thomas B. Rücker" :
>
>> On 08/07/2013 10:17 AM, Putze Sven wrote:
>>> Hi there,
>>>
>>> is there a bugtracker for reported issues or new issues anywhere
>>> around (Sailfish OS / SDK / Installer)? Or is everything handled via
>>> this list here so far?
>>
>> For the first alpha release there was a significant collection of known
>> issues listed on the page. Bugs are mostly reported here and on IRC
>> (although here is better for documentation purposes).
>> Issues that can be clearly identified to have originated in Mer or Nemo
>> are tracked here:
>> - https://bugs.merproject.org/
>> - https://bugs.nemomobile.org/
>>
>> I'm not entirely sure how Jolla owned bugs are prioritized. The one I
>> reported with one of my first mails to the list in February (and got
>> ack'd by Jolla) is still there.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Thomas
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>>
>
>

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Re: [SailfishDevel] Is there a bug tracker?

[Thomas B. Rücker]

On 08/07/2013 10:17 AM, Putze Sven wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> is there a bugtracker for reported issues or new issues anywhere around 
> (Sailfish OS / SDK / Installer)? Or is everything handled via this list here 
> so far?

For the first alpha release there was a significant collection of known
issues listed on the page. Bugs are mostly reported here and on IRC
(although here is better for documentation purposes).
Issues that can be clearly identified to have originated in Mer or Nemo
are tracked here:
- https://bugs.merproject.org/
- https://bugs.nemomobile.org/

I'm not entirely sure how Jolla owned bugs are prioritized. The one I
reported with one of my first mails to the list in February (and got
ack'd by Jolla) is still there.

Cheers

Thomas
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Re: [SailfishDevel] Notification During Voice Call

[Thomas B. Rücker]

On 08/03/2013 11:16 PM, FIlip Kłębczyk wrote:
> W dniu 03.08.2013 21:36, Josh Alner | Killer Mobile Software pisze:
>> In meego(Harmattan) we had used APIs from
>> #include  or #include 
>> to get notified during calls (voice calls). I'm not seeing any
>> equivalent in SailfishOS.
>
> My guess is that on Sailfish you can get notified about incoming calls
> by oFono through D-bus.
>
> Look at this:
> https://github.com/nemomobile-packages/ofono/blob/master/ofono/doc/voicecall-api.txt
>
>
> Property State change to "incoming" is probably the thing you want to
> detect.

I'd try this out on a N9 with Nemo.
I suspect it will behave very similar due to the shared middleware
between Nemo and Sailfish.

I also took a look at this and from my investigation DBus looks most
promising. But StateFS might be worth a look too. (It replaces
ContextKit that was used under Harmattan)

Cheers

Thomas
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Re: [SailfishDevel] small bug in the home screen

[Thomas B. Rücker]

On 02/26/2013 07:12 AM, Vesa-Matti Hartikainen wrote:
> On 02/25/2013 07:59 PM, Rücker Thomas wrote:
>> If you reach the bottom of the screen you'll pull up a menu that shows 
>> 'home'. If you keep the mouse button pressed and scroll out of the 
>> menu, then you won't be able to reach the menu anymore until you 
>> release the mouse button (lift your finger) and try again. It will 
>> just stop at the bottom of that darker green screen and that 'end of 
>> screen glow' will get dim if you try to pull out the menu.
>   Thanks for reporting. I think I got this reproduced and happens in all 
> pulley menus.  So essentially:
>   1) Pulldown (or pushup) a pulley menu
>   2) do the opposite until the menu is fully closed
>   3) try to pull it open again
>   And all without releasing mousebutton.

FYI, Still reproduces on the freshly released Qt5-wayland-alpha SDK.

I know there are probably more important things, but I find it amusing,
that the first bug reported and acknowledged on this list is still
there... Let's just hope it gets fixed before the product ships... ;)

Cheers

Thomas
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Re: [SailfishDevel] GStreamer does not support HTTP streaming -- Workaround?

[Thomas B. Rücker]

Hi,

On 07/11/2013 12:40 PM, Erlend Boe wrote:
> I tried to play an .ogg audio file using a http url in my application (from 
> qml), but it is not working.
> The error message that I get is:
> GStreamer; Unable to play - 
> "http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/En-us-surname.ogg"; 
> Error: "No URI handler implemented for "http".
>
> I then saw that also MeeGo once had this problem, bug 1584.
> (performing a similar test in the simulator gives the same error as in bug 
> 1584)

Umm, that's bad and should be fixed. I suppose Mer inherited the build
config from MeeGo.
GStreamer is part of Nemo middleware nowadays and bugs can be filed here:
https://bugs.nemomobile.org/
Once it's fixed there it should automagically also appear in Sailfish as
that uses Nemo MW.

> What is the best workaround for this issue? Do I need to download the .ogg 
> file to a temporary file in C++, and then use this local file?

You can't easily do that with e.g. a large file or a live stream like
those listed on http://dir.xiph.org. You'd essentially need to implement
your own HTTP client. So building it with HTTP support enabled is in
order and removes the incentive to reinvent the wheel, badly.

Cheers

Thomas
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Re: [SailfishDevel] Alternate line service (ALS)

[Thomas B. Rücker]

Hi,

On 06/19/2013 10:38 AM, Chris Mailer wrote:
> Hello list,
>
> is someone already working on implementing "Alternate Line Service
> (ALS) in Mer/SailfishOS?
> It is a quit common CPHS service with many GSM providers.
> The specifications are described here:
> http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/tsg_t/WG3_USIM/TSGT3_15/docs/T3-000450.zip
>

Is that really still around and popular with operators?
I remember seeing this in the late 90's and only with one operator in
Germany.
I'm genuinely curious here and guess it would also help Jolla to know in
which Markets that is used to justify possible development effort.

Cheers

Thomas
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Re: [SailfishDevel] developer on windows

[Thomas B. Rücker]

Hi,

On 04/19/2013 05:59 PM, Daniel Gomes wrote:
>
> Hi ,
>
>  
>
> I tryed to test one simple app and when I doing my app exemplo I save
> on another local outside of my home user windows, but a got the
> following error:
>
>  
>
> :-1: error: Project is outside of shared home 'C:\Users\dgomes'
>
>  
>
> My exemplo is on d:\projeto\celular\hello
>
>

If this is anything like on the other platforms, then you have to store
your projects in the shared home.
This is currently a requirement. I'm not sure if this is going to change
in the future, but I'd expect so.

Cheers

Thomas

PS: In case you didn't catch it: you really have to store your example
project in 'C:\Users\dgomes\...'
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