Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Denis Zalevskiy]

On Saturday 24 May 2014 21:53:13 Erik Lundin wrote:
> 2014-05-24 12:56, christopher.l...@thurweb.ch skrev:
> > My suggestion is that rather than splitting into multiple mailing lists,
> > which does not really cure anything, you replace the mailing lists with
> > a forum. I agree it would be crazy to have both.
> 
> Now since a forum is suggested, I cannot resist to propose my favourite
> way of finding and sharing developer experience: a Q&A site (think Stack
> Overflow). Even if there is together.jolla.com, I haven't yet seen many
> concrete Sailfish development topics discussed there. Compared to forums
> and mailing lists, Q&A sites have the built-in advantage of distilling
> the best answers to be easily found instead of being buried in endless
> threads.
> 

And organization of information in forum-like tree is possible on Q&A, so for 
TJC: 
https://together.jolla.com/question/43899/lets-organize-information-about-jolla-and-sailfish-here/

- denis

> Best regards,
> Erik
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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Denis Zalevskiy]

Hi,

On Tuesday 27 May 2014 08:17:52 Christopher Lamb wrote:
> Hi all
> 
> I am pleasantly surprised at the volume of traffic resulting from a
> thread that I innocently kicked of that the weekend. Thanks for the
> active and balanced discussion.
> 
> I probably won't be able to take an active part in the IRC meeting this
> afternoon, as it is during the Swiss working day, so here is a summary
> of some key points from the thread so far.
> 
> There is a strong wish to avoid fragmentation of channels: That implies
> that anything new should be instead of / integrated into / a refinement
> of an existing channel (e.g. TJC)
> 
> We currently have the following meeting channels of some interest to
> developers, each with a different focus.
> 1) Together.Jolla.com (TJC): Q/A site mainly concerned on the phone +
> bugs and flames. So far no dedciated area for development issues.

just plain and simple:

https://together.jolla.com/questions/scope:all/sort:activity-desc/tags:app-development/page:1/

For people who are less familiar with q&a style it is possible to create a 
separate top page on TJC in the forum style providing most frequent searches 
as static subjects.

Some part of https://together.jolla.com/tags/

So, there can be smth. like Announcements, Releases, Bugs, Development etc.

> 2) Talk.Maemo.Org (TMO): A forum, strongly used by app developers and
> their users. Unlike other channels. this is Jolla independent.
> 3) This mailing list: used by developers to developers (both inside and
> outside Jolla).
> 4) IRC Chat. similar purpose to 3) above.
> 5) Other non-Sailfish-dedicated developer forums (StackOverflow, Qt
> Project etc.)
> 
> We heard from both supporters of mailing lists and forums. The one side
> will probably never convince the other. I suspect that "I am used too…"
> and "personally I prefer …" are more important as anything else.
> 

mailing list on the base of q&a forum on steroids:
https://together.jolla.com/users/4//?sort=email_subscriptions


> Both tools have their plus points and weakness. Here are main ones..
> 
> Mailing lists (with the appropriate mail client) appeal to those who
> like the structure of tree views.
> 
> There is a certain charm in the simplicity of mailing lists (KISS) which
> do not have all the extraneous functionality / bells and whistles /
> baggage / bullshit (you choose) that forum or Q&A sites do.
> 
> Mailing lists do require a powerful properly configured mail client to
> be used properly. In a Forum you get that "for free" in a web client
> (but can't do much to customise it).
> 
> Mailing lists aggregate communication in your mail client - avoiding the
> "yet another thing I need to visit .." syndrome.
> 
> Forums allow editing of previous posts to correct typos / make
> clarifications.
> 
> Forums typically have extra functionality: e.g."like", formatting,
> stickies, the dreaded karma…
> 
> Privacy: Some forums use avatars, and allow you to suppress your
> personal email.
> 
> Forums support sub-forums. At the moment we are talking about splitting
> the list into "development" and "other", but what happens when we want
> to split it further? (Jobs, C++, QML, Silica, OpenSource etc.).
> 

sub-forums:

Devel->QML: 
https://together.jolla.com/questions/scope:all/sort:activity-desc/tags:app-development,qml/page:1/

Devel->Javascript:

https://together.jolla.com/questions/scope:all/sort:activity-desc/tags:app-development,javascript/page:1/

etc.

- denis

> Cheers
> 
> Chris
> 
> On 26.05.14 21:43, fasza2mob...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> >I think Norman is bang on with the fragmentation issue. To address this
> >I propose a possible solution. Why not convert this mailing list to a
> >'virtual' one; By that I mean move all discussion to a devel section
> >on TJC  and have the mailing list be another frontend or interface if
> >you like for the same content(yet better, keep all mails and posts
> >with their metadata in the same database and create an API that both
> >ML and TJC can call thus eases applification too, kind of like MVC).
> >To accommodate this TJC (or at least the proposed devel section) would
> >have to be changed/improved to have a treelike structure alongside its
> >Q&A nature so that OT answers and its children can easily be tagged
> >and filtered out in both TJC and ML interfaces. OT tag should be
> >available for every poster to tag their answer/comment. To achieve 
> >this  there should be 2 scripts one that converts each mail to mailing
> >list to a new question/answer/comment retaining  the treelike
> >structure and one other sc>   
> >   ript that posts entries from TJC to ML setting the subject correctly as
> >   it is now; Perhaps with an x minutes latency to alllow for editing
> >   post.>   
> >If one wants to use a different email address for the mailing list that
> >is set for TJC a setting should be available. Further to this
> >subsections(Qt,

Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Christopher Lamb]

Hi all

I am pleasantly surprised at the volume of traffic resulting from a 
thread that I innocently kicked of that the weekend. Thanks for the 
active and balanced discussion.


I probably won't be able to take an active part in the IRC meeting this 
afternoon, as it is during the Swiss working day, so here is a summary 
of some key points from the thread so far.


There is a strong wish to avoid fragmentation of channels: That implies 
that anything new should be instead of / integrated into / a refinement 
of an existing channel (e.g. TJC)


We currently have the following meeting channels of some interest to 
developers, each with a different focus.
1) Together.Jolla.com (TJC): Q/A site mainly concerned on the phone + 
bugs and flames. So far no dedciated area for development issues.
2) Talk.Maemo.Org (TMO): A forum, strongly used by app developers and 
their users. Unlike other channels. this is Jolla independent.
3) This mailing list: used by developers to developers (both inside and 
outside Jolla).

4) IRC Chat. similar purpose to 3) above.
5) Other non-Sailfish-dedicated developer forums (StackOverflow, Qt 
Project etc.)


We heard from both supporters of mailing lists and forums. The one side 
will probably never convince the other. I suspect that "I am used too…" 
and "personally I prefer …" are more important as anything else.


Both tools have their plus points and weakness. Here are main ones..

Mailing lists (with the appropriate mail client) appeal to those who 
like the structure of tree views.


There is a certain charm in the simplicity of mailing lists (KISS) which 
do not have all the extraneous functionality / bells and whistles / 
baggage / bullshit (you choose) that forum or Q&A sites do.


Mailing lists do require a powerful properly configured mail client to 
be used properly. In a Forum you get that "for free" in a web client 
(but can't do much to customise it).


Mailing lists aggregate communication in your mail client - avoiding the 
"yet another thing I need to visit .." syndrome.


Forums allow editing of previous posts to correct typos / make 
clarifications.


Forums typically have extra functionality: e.g."like", formatting, 
stickies, the dreaded karma…


Privacy: Some forums use avatars, and allow you to suppress your 
personal email.


Forums support sub-forums. At the moment we are talking about splitting 
the list into "development" and "other", but what happens when we want 
to split it further? (Jobs, C++, QML, Silica, OpenSource etc.).


Cheers

Chris



On 26.05.14 21:43, fasza2mob...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi all,
   I think Norman is bang on with the fragmentation issue. To address this I 
propose a possible solution. Why not convert this mailing list to a 'virtual' one; 
By that I mean move all discussion to a devel section on TJC  and have the mailing 
list be another frontend or interface if you like for the same content(yet better, 
keep all mails and posts with their metadata in the same database and create an API 
that both ML and TJC can call thus eases applification too, kind of like MVC). To 
accommodate this TJC (or at least the proposed devel section) would have to be 
changed/improved to have a treelike structure alongside its Q&A nature so that 
OT answers and its children can easily be tagged and filtered out in both TJC and 
ML interfaces. OT tag should be available for every poster to tag their 
answer/comment. To achieve  this  there should be 2 scripts one that converts each 
mail to mailing list to a new question/answer/comment retaining  the treelike 
structure and one other sc
  ript that posts entries from TJC to ML setting the subject correctly as it is 
now; Perhaps with an x minutes latency to alllow for editing post.
   If one wants to use a different email address for the mailing list that is 
set for TJC a setting should be available.
   Further to this subsections(Qt, Qml, news, politics, ads, jobs etc) could be 
introduced making  it easier to filter or subscribe to selected subsections 
only; This could benefit both interfaces.
   Having this approach I believe would give users/developers the flexibility  
to choose, mix and match the best way(for them) to interact with fellow 
developers whilst not fragmenting the community.
   The obvious tradeoff is some developer hours, but doing it in the open could 
reduce that somewhat especially when it comes to maintenance.
  
   Please do comment on what you all think about my proposition, be it positive or negative.


Thanks
  Kris

Ps: I'd prefer Q&A, but mailing list has been more effective in my experience 
so far.

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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[fasza2mobile]

Hi all,
  I think Norman is bang on with the fragmentation issue. To address this I 
propose a possible solution. Why not convert this mailing list to a 'virtual' 
one; By that I mean move all discussion to a devel section on TJC  and have the 
mailing list be another frontend or interface if you like for the same 
content(yet better, keep all mails and posts with their metadata in the same 
database and create an API that both ML and TJC can call thus eases 
applification too, kind of like MVC). To accommodate this TJC (or at least the 
proposed devel section) would have to be changed/improved to have a treelike 
structure alongside its Q&A nature so that OT answers and its children can 
easily be tagged and filtered out in both TJC and ML interfaces. OT tag should 
be available for every poster to tag their answer/comment. To achieve  this  
there should be 2 scripts one that converts each mail to mailing list to a new 
question/answer/comment retaining  the treelike structure and one other sc
 ript that posts entries from TJC to ML setting the subject correctly as it is 
now; Perhaps with an x minutes latency to alllow for editing post.
  If one wants to use a different email address for the mailing list that is 
set for TJC a setting should be available.  
  Further to this subsections(Qt, Qml, news, politics, ads, jobs etc) could be 
introduced making  it easier to filter or subscribe to selected subsections 
only; This could benefit both interfaces.
  Having this approach I believe would give users/developers the flexibility  
to choose, mix and match the best way(for them) to interact with fellow 
developers whilst not fragmenting the community.
  The obvious tradeoff is some developer hours, but doing it in the open could 
reduce that somewhat especially when it comes to maintenance. 
 
  Please do comment on what you all think about my proposition, be it positive 
or negative.

Thanks
 Kris

Ps: I'd prefer Q&A, but mailing list has been more effective in my experience 
so far.
   

On Mon May 26 2014 08:53:32 GMT+0100 (BST), Norbert Wenzel wrote:
> On 05/26/2014 09:21 AM, Ruediger Gad wrote:
> > Why not let the users make the decision?
> > I.e., we have a mailing list and a Q&A site already, just the forum is
> > missing.
> > So, if there were a forum as well, it would show over time how the usage
> > and the user counts of the different infrastructures develops.
> 
> I know that from other projects and what happened there was that some
> people use forums and some people use mailinglists. The two communities
> don't have much intersection. Which might or might not be a desired
> outcome depending on the size of the community.
> 
> Personally I have to say that I wouldn't use a forum or any other
> web-based platform. I mean, if I really had to I'd post my question
> there but I wouldn't follow discussions, since I'd need to actively
> visit the forum. I prefer ML because I have one single spot where all
> messages of all lists can be found and I'm reading along when I have the
> time to do so.
> 
> So besides my personal opinion I just wanted to say that too many
> options for discussion might lead to fragmentation instead of making
> everybody happy.
> 
> Norbert
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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[sfietkonstantin]

Thanks for the lengthy discussion. Don't forget that the topic will also be 
discussed tomorrow during the weekly sailfish OS meeting 
(http://piratepad.net/SailfishOSSMeetings)

Please come and discuss on actions to be taken :)
Cheers,

Lucien

- Mail original -
De: "Thomas Tanghus" 
À: "Sailfish OS Developers" 
Envoyé: Lundi 26 Mai 2014 17:59:07
Objet: Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

On Monday 26 May 2014 10:18 Luca Donaggio wrote:
> +1 for keeping this ML and (eventually) improving TJC.
> 
> Personally, TJC currently suffers of one big drawback, which is not even
> technical: it is perceived more as a generic issue-reporting /
> feature-requesting tool than anything else.
> Developer related questions have always been reported on this ML first, and
> later on TJC mainly when it resulted in a bug of some sort.
> 
> I'm not against forums, I just can't afford following another on-line
> source, two is more than enough for my (limited I must admit) spare time :-)
 
Also a +1 from me. 
 
-- 
Med venlig hilsen / Best Regards

Thomas Tanghus
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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[sailfish-devel]

 
  
  Hi everybody,
  
   

 
  
   
So, current situation is:

   ML: official, could use, in dare times ;-), some moderation
   
   
  TJC: official, nedd some improvements, but nobody can deny the success of Q&A sites (see Stackoverflow) as a developer helping tool
   
  
 TMO: unofficial, suits all the needs of forum estimators.
 
 

   
  
  has it already been suggested/considered to actually just use stackoverflow.com for discussing things related to SailfishOS development? Stackexchange allows email subscriptions filtered by tag as well as browsing the site filtered by tag (or favoring tags).
  In addition to already mentioned advantages/disadvantages of Q&A sites:
  + most software developers probably already have a stackexchange account+ taking these topics into a generic developer platform might increase awareness of SailfishOS development, and SailfishOS in general+ there could also be a symbiosis with other Qt users
  Best regards,
  Jens 
 

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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Thomas Tanghus]

On Monday 26 May 2014 10:18 Luca Donaggio wrote:
> +1 for keeping this ML and (eventually) improving TJC.
> 
> Personally, TJC currently suffers of one big drawback, which is not even
> technical: it is perceived more as a generic issue-reporting /
> feature-requesting tool than anything else.
> Developer related questions have always been reported on this ML first, and
> later on TJC mainly when it resulted in a bug of some sort.
> 
> I'm not against forums, I just can't afford following another on-line
> source, two is more than enough for my (limited I must admit) spare time :-)
 
Also a +1 from me. 
 
-- 
Med venlig hilsen / Best Regards

Thomas Tanghus
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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Leif-Jöran Olsson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

I agree on these opinions too. So +1.

Cheers,
Leif-Jöran
Den 2014-05-26 10:18, Luca Donaggio skrev:
> +1 for keeping this ML and (eventually) improving TJC.
> 
> Personally, TJC currently suffers of one big drawback, which is not even
> technical: it is perceived more as a generic issue-reporting /
> feature-requesting tool than anything else.
> Developer related questions have always been reported on this ML first,
> and later on TJC mainly when it resulted in a bug of some sort.
> 
> I'm not against forums, I just can't afford following another on-line
> source, two is more than enough for my (limited I must admit) spare time :-)
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 9:53 AM, Norbert Wenzel
> mailto:norbert.wenzel.li...@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> 
> On 05/26/2014 09:21 AM, Ruediger Gad wrote:
> > Why not let the users make the decision?
> > I.e., we have a mailing list and a Q&A site already, just the forum is
> > missing.
> > So, if there were a forum as well, it would show over time how the
> usage
> > and the user counts of the different infrastructures develops.
> 
> I know that from other projects and what happened there was that some
> people use forums and some people use mailinglists. The two communities
> don't have much intersection. Which might or might not be a desired
> outcome depending on the size of the community.
> 
> Personally I have to say that I wouldn't use a forum or any other
> web-based platform. I mean, if I really had to I'd post my question
> there but I wouldn't follow discussions, since I'd need to actively
> visit the forum. I prefer ML because I have one single spot where all
> messages of all lists can be found and I'm reading along when I have the
> time to do so.
> 
> So besides my personal opinion I just wanted to say that too many
> options for discussion might lead to fragmentation instead of making
> everybody happy.
> 
> Norbert
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Luca Donaggio
> 
> 
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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Denis Zalevskiy]

On Monday 26 May 2014 11:23:34 Kimmo Lindholm wrote:
> Testing TJC with development issues;
> 
> https://together.jolla.com/question/43768/dialogconnect-function-loses-its-p
> arent/
> 

+1 to idea to try it there.

the good part is that once app-development etc. appeared one can subscribe to 
it and get both e-mail notifications as also get it on the side bar. Also 
unsubscription is simple but it is still possible to reply.

- denis

> -kimmo
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: devel-boun...@lists.sailfishos.org
> [mailto:devel-boun...@lists.sailfishos.org] On Behalf Of Denis Zalevskiy
> Sent: 26. toukokuuta 2014 13:28
> To: devel@lists.sailfishos.org
> Subject: Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum
> 
> On Monday 26 May 2014 11:03:14 sfietkonstan...@free.fr wrote:
> > I went active on TMO while developing for SFOS.
> > It's not even a habit but more about easiness to use.
> > 
> > Forum have a clear hiearchy (better than TJC), and a thread system (like
> > in
> > ML). It's focused on discussion (unlike TJC), and provides some useful
> 
> imo, it is focused on flame mostly and 90% of thread conversation contains
> unuseful ranting.
> 
> > tools (edit, formatting, thanks button; better than a ML). IMO it's the
> 
> formatting - q&a
> voting (better than thanks) - q&a
> 
> > perfect mix for engaging discussions inside the users community, and
> > between devs and users.
> 
> q&a is also threaded, and it important that each informative comment can be
> converted to the "answer" (read "useful post")
> 
> - denis
> 
> > It might not work well to provide feedback to Jolla (TJC might do this
> > better), and is less efficient than ML for devs to devs discussions.
> > 
> > So I appreciate to have the 3 tools available, and would love to see Jolla
> > cooperate with TMO as a forum of choice for discussions.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > - Mail original -
> > De: "Denis Zalevskiy" 
> > À: devel@lists.sailfishos.org
> > Envoyé: Lundi 26 Mai 2014 10:55:10
> > Objet: Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum
> > 
> > On Monday 26 May 2014 10:49:51 sfietkonstan...@free.fr wrote:
> > > +1
> > > TMO is often the forum of choice for many developers (me included), to
> > 
> > maybe because you are using TMO for a long time and have a habbit to use
> > it
> > ? Also because many people who develop and developed for mobile linux also
> > has the same habbit :) So, it is easier to find 'em there.
> > 
> > - denis
> > 
> > > communicate with users. TJC could have taken this role, but the flat
> > > hiearchy, and the focus on QA, it don't fit that much for a discussion
> > > (especially between users and devs).
> > > 
> > > - Mail original -
> > > De: "Ruediger Gad" 
> > > À: "Sailfish OS Developers" 
> > > Envoyé: Lundi 26 Mai 2014 10:16:34
> > > Objet: Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum
> > > 
> > > On 05/26/2014 09:50 AM, Stefano Mosconi wrote:
> > > > ...
> > > > 
> > > > Should we invest our time into making a better together.jolla.com
> > > > rather
> > > > than a different platform (this is not rhetorical)?
> > > 
> > > Thanks for you answer, both Norbert and you. :)
> > > Indeed, the time overhead to manage multiple platforms as well as the
> > > points Nobert mentioned are important aspects and to be honest I have no
> > > clue about weighting the real trade-offs.
> > > 
> > > With respect to the question what a forum has that the other platforms
> > > don't have:
> > > In a forum, e.g., I feel that I somehow get better contact to users of
> > > my apps.
> > > See, e.g., the SkippingStones work-in-progress thread as example:
> > > http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=92695
> > > I also enjoy to read some rather off-topic discussions like "Look what I
> > > drew on my phone" once in a while (which I wouldn't like ending up in my
> > > e-mail inbox btw.).
> > > There were also other aspects that got mentioned throughout this
> > > discussion that I found important.
> > > Unfortunately, I am pretty much on the run at the moment so I cannot
> > > repeat everything in detail.
> > > 
> > > Generally, I got quite accustomed to using a forum.
> > > 

Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Luca Donaggio]

So, current situation is:

ML: official, could use, in dare times ;-), some moderation

TJC: official, nedd some improvements, but nobody can deny the success of
Q&A sites (see Stackoverflow) as a developer helping tool

TMO: unofficial, suits all the needs of forum estimators.

For official advice one should post on the ML or TJC, for community help
there's also TMO; while we can expect for Sailors to (promptly, hopefully)
answer here on the ML or in TJC, of course we can't pretend the same for
TMO: probably they're already too busy and we can't ask them to regularly
scan a community forum on top of their other duties!


On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 12:28 PM, Denis Zalevskiy <
denis.zalevs...@jollamobile.com> wrote:

> On Monday 26 May 2014 11:03:14 sfietkonstan...@free.fr wrote:
> > I went active on TMO while developing for SFOS.
> > It's not even a habit but more about easiness to use.
> >
> > Forum have a clear hiearchy (better than TJC), and a thread system (like
> in
> > ML). It's focused on discussion (unlike TJC), and provides some useful
>
> imo, it is focused on flame mostly and 90% of thread conversation contains
> unuseful ranting.
>
> > tools (edit, formatting, thanks button; better than a ML). IMO it's the
>
> formatting - q&a
> voting (better than thanks) - q&a
>
> > perfect mix for engaging discussions inside the users community, and
> > between devs and users.
> >
>
> q&a is also threaded, and it important that each informative comment can be
> converted to the "answer" (read "useful post")
>
> - denis
>
> > It might not work well to provide feedback to Jolla (TJC might do this
> > better), and is less efficient than ML for devs to devs discussions.
> >
> > So I appreciate to have the 3 tools available, and would love to see
> Jolla
> > cooperate with TMO as a forum of choice for discussions.
> >
>
>
> > - Mail original -
> > De: "Denis Zalevskiy" 
> > À: devel@lists.sailfishos.org
> > Envoyé: Lundi 26 Mai 2014 10:55:10
> > Objet: Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum
> >
> > On Monday 26 May 2014 10:49:51 sfietkonstan...@free.fr wrote:
> > > +1
> > > TMO is often the forum of choice for many developers (me included), to
> >
> > maybe because you are using TMO for a long time and have a habbit to use
> it
> > ? Also because many people who develop and developed for mobile linux
> also
> > has the same habbit :) So, it is easier to find 'em there.
> >
> > - denis
> >
> > > communicate with users. TJC could have taken this role, but the flat
> > > hiearchy, and the focus on QA, it don't fit that much for a discussion
> > > (especially between users and devs).
> > >
> > > - Mail original -
> > > De: "Ruediger Gad" 
> > > À: "Sailfish OS Developers" 
> > > Envoyé: Lundi 26 Mai 2014 10:16:34
> > > Objet: Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum
> > >
> > > On 05/26/2014 09:50 AM, Stefano Mosconi wrote:
> > > > ...
> > > >
> > > > Should we invest our time into making a better together.jolla.comrather
> > > > than a different platform (this is not rhetorical)?
> > >
> > > Thanks for you answer, both Norbert and you. :)
> > > Indeed, the time overhead to manage multiple platforms as well as the
> > > points Nobert mentioned are important aspects and to be honest I have
> no
> > > clue about weighting the real trade-offs.
> > >
> > > With respect to the question what a forum has that the other platforms
> > > don't have:
> > > In a forum, e.g., I feel that I somehow get better contact to users of
> > > my apps.
> > > See, e.g., the SkippingStones work-in-progress thread as example:
> > > http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=92695
> > > I also enjoy to read some rather off-topic discussions like "Look what
> I
> > > drew on my phone" once in a while (which I wouldn't like ending up in
> my
> > > e-mail inbox btw.).
> > > There were also other aspects that got mentioned throughout this
> > > discussion that I found important.
> > > Unfortunately, I am pretty much on the run at the moment so I cannot
> > > repeat everything in detail.
> > >
> > > Generally, I got quite accustomed to using a forum.
> > > But then this is al

Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Kimmo Lindholm]

Testing TJC with development issues;

https://together.jolla.com/question/43768/dialogconnect-function-loses-its-parent/
 

-kimmo

-Original Message-
From: devel-boun...@lists.sailfishos.org 
[mailto:devel-boun...@lists.sailfishos.org] On Behalf Of Denis Zalevskiy
Sent: 26. toukokuuta 2014 13:28
To: devel@lists.sailfishos.org
Subject: Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

On Monday 26 May 2014 11:03:14 sfietkonstan...@free.fr wrote:
> I went active on TMO while developing for SFOS.
> It's not even a habit but more about easiness to use.
> 
> Forum have a clear hiearchy (better than TJC), and a thread system (like in
> ML). It's focused on discussion (unlike TJC), and provides some useful

imo, it is focused on flame mostly and 90% of thread conversation contains 
unuseful ranting.

> tools (edit, formatting, thanks button; better than a ML). IMO it's the

formatting - q&a
voting (better than thanks) - q&a

> perfect mix for engaging discussions inside the users community, and
> between devs and users.
> 

q&a is also threaded, and it important that each informative comment can be 
converted to the "answer" (read "useful post")

- denis

> It might not work well to provide feedback to Jolla (TJC might do this
> better), and is less efficient than ML for devs to devs discussions.
> 
> So I appreciate to have the 3 tools available, and would love to see Jolla
> cooperate with TMO as a forum of choice for discussions.
> 


> - Mail original -----
> De: "Denis Zalevskiy" 
> À: devel@lists.sailfishos.org
> Envoyé: Lundi 26 Mai 2014 10:55:10
> Objet: Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum
> 
> On Monday 26 May 2014 10:49:51 sfietkonstan...@free.fr wrote:
> > +1
> > TMO is often the forum of choice for many developers (me included), to
> 
> maybe because you are using TMO for a long time and have a habbit to use it
> ? Also because many people who develop and developed for mobile linux also
> has the same habbit :) So, it is easier to find 'em there.
> 
> - denis
> 
> > communicate with users. TJC could have taken this role, but the flat
> > hiearchy, and the focus on QA, it don't fit that much for a discussion
> > (especially between users and devs).
> > 
> > - Mail original -
> > De: "Ruediger Gad" 
> > À: "Sailfish OS Developers" 
> > Envoyé: Lundi 26 Mai 2014 10:16:34
> > Objet: Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum
> > 
> > On 05/26/2014 09:50 AM, Stefano Mosconi wrote:
> > > ...
> > > 
> > > Should we invest our time into making a better together.jolla.com rather
> > > than a different platform (this is not rhetorical)?
> > 
> > Thanks for you answer, both Norbert and you. :)
> > Indeed, the time overhead to manage multiple platforms as well as the
> > points Nobert mentioned are important aspects and to be honest I have no
> > clue about weighting the real trade-offs.
> > 
> > With respect to the question what a forum has that the other platforms
> > don't have:
> > In a forum, e.g., I feel that I somehow get better contact to users of
> > my apps.
> > See, e.g., the SkippingStones work-in-progress thread as example:
> > http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=92695
> > I also enjoy to read some rather off-topic discussions like "Look what I
> > drew on my phone" once in a while (which I wouldn't like ending up in my
> > e-mail inbox btw.).
> > There were also other aspects that got mentioned throughout this
> > discussion that I found important.
> > Unfortunately, I am pretty much on the run at the moment so I cannot
> > repeat everything in detail.
> > 
> > Generally, I got quite accustomed to using a forum.
> > But then this is all about personal habits that one got used to.
> > 
> > Right now, I am primarily using the Sailfish OS etc. sections at
> > talk.maemo.org as "semi-official" Sailfish OS/Jolla forum replacement.
> > So, in a sense, there is already something like a forum.
> > Maybe this is a viable approach that can be used in the meantime?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > BR
> > 
> > Ruediger
> > 
> > > Stefano
> > > ___
> > > SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
> > > To unsubscribe, please send a mail to
> > > devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org
> 
> ___
> SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
> To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org
> ___
> SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
> To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org

___
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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Denis Zalevskiy]

On Monday 26 May 2014 11:03:14 sfietkonstan...@free.fr wrote:
> I went active on TMO while developing for SFOS.
> It's not even a habit but more about easiness to use.
> 
> Forum have a clear hiearchy (better than TJC), and a thread system (like in
> ML). It's focused on discussion (unlike TJC), and provides some useful

imo, it is focused on flame mostly and 90% of thread conversation contains 
unuseful ranting.

> tools (edit, formatting, thanks button; better than a ML). IMO it's the

formatting - q&a
voting (better than thanks) - q&a

> perfect mix for engaging discussions inside the users community, and
> between devs and users.
> 

q&a is also threaded, and it important that each informative comment can be 
converted to the "answer" (read "useful post")

- denis

> It might not work well to provide feedback to Jolla (TJC might do this
> better), and is less efficient than ML for devs to devs discussions.
> 
> So I appreciate to have the 3 tools available, and would love to see Jolla
> cooperate with TMO as a forum of choice for discussions.
> 


> - Mail original -
> De: "Denis Zalevskiy" 
> À: devel@lists.sailfishos.org
> Envoyé: Lundi 26 Mai 2014 10:55:10
> Objet: Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum
> 
> On Monday 26 May 2014 10:49:51 sfietkonstan...@free.fr wrote:
> > +1
> > TMO is often the forum of choice for many developers (me included), to
> 
> maybe because you are using TMO for a long time and have a habbit to use it
> ? Also because many people who develop and developed for mobile linux also
> has the same habbit :) So, it is easier to find 'em there.
> 
> - denis
> 
> > communicate with users. TJC could have taken this role, but the flat
> > hiearchy, and the focus on QA, it don't fit that much for a discussion
> > (especially between users and devs).
> > 
> > - Mail original -
> > De: "Ruediger Gad" 
> > À: "Sailfish OS Developers" 
> > Envoyé: Lundi 26 Mai 2014 10:16:34
> > Objet: Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum
> > 
> > On 05/26/2014 09:50 AM, Stefano Mosconi wrote:
> > > ...
> > > 
> > > Should we invest our time into making a better together.jolla.com rather
> > > than a different platform (this is not rhetorical)?
> > 
> > Thanks for you answer, both Norbert and you. :)
> > Indeed, the time overhead to manage multiple platforms as well as the
> > points Nobert mentioned are important aspects and to be honest I have no
> > clue about weighting the real trade-offs.
> > 
> > With respect to the question what a forum has that the other platforms
> > don't have:
> > In a forum, e.g., I feel that I somehow get better contact to users of
> > my apps.
> > See, e.g., the SkippingStones work-in-progress thread as example:
> > http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=92695
> > I also enjoy to read some rather off-topic discussions like "Look what I
> > drew on my phone" once in a while (which I wouldn't like ending up in my
> > e-mail inbox btw.).
> > There were also other aspects that got mentioned throughout this
> > discussion that I found important.
> > Unfortunately, I am pretty much on the run at the moment so I cannot
> > repeat everything in detail.
> > 
> > Generally, I got quite accustomed to using a forum.
> > But then this is all about personal habits that one got used to.
> > 
> > Right now, I am primarily using the Sailfish OS etc. sections at
> > talk.maemo.org as "semi-official" Sailfish OS/Jolla forum replacement.
> > So, in a sense, there is already something like a forum.
> > Maybe this is a viable approach that can be used in the meantime?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > BR
> > 
> > Ruediger
> > 
> > > Stefano
> > > ___
> > > SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
> > > To unsubscribe, please send a mail to
> > > devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org
> 
> ___
> SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
> To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org
> ___
> SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
> To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org

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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[sfietkonstantin]

I went active on TMO while developing for SFOS. 
It's not even a habit but more about easiness to use.

Forum have a clear hiearchy (better than TJC), and a thread system (like in 
ML). It's focused on discussion (unlike TJC), and provides some useful tools 
(edit, formatting, thanks button; better than a ML). IMO it's the perfect mix 
for engaging discussions inside the users community, and between devs and users.

It might not work well to provide feedback to Jolla (TJC might do this better), 
and is less efficient than ML for devs to devs discussions.

So I appreciate to have the 3 tools available, and would love to see Jolla 
cooperate with TMO as a forum of choice for discussions. 

- Mail original -
De: "Denis Zalevskiy" 
À: devel@lists.sailfishos.org
Envoyé: Lundi 26 Mai 2014 10:55:10
Objet: Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

On Monday 26 May 2014 10:49:51 sfietkonstan...@free.fr wrote:
> +1
> TMO is often the forum of choice for many developers (me included), to

maybe because you are using TMO for a long time and have a habbit to use it ? 
Also because many people who develop and developed for mobile linux also has 
the same habbit :) So, it is easier to find 'em there.

- denis

> communicate with users. TJC could have taken this role, but the flat
> hiearchy, and the focus on QA, it don't fit that much for a discussion
> (especially between users and devs).
> 
> - Mail original -
> De: "Ruediger Gad" 
> À: "Sailfish OS Developers" 
> Envoyé: Lundi 26 Mai 2014 10:16:34
> Objet: Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum
> 
> On 05/26/2014 09:50 AM, Stefano Mosconi wrote:
> > ...
> > 
> > Should we invest our time into making a better together.jolla.com rather
> > than a different platform (this is not rhetorical)?
> 
> Thanks for you answer, both Norbert and you. :)
> Indeed, the time overhead to manage multiple platforms as well as the
> points Nobert mentioned are important aspects and to be honest I have no
> clue about weighting the real trade-offs.
> 
> With respect to the question what a forum has that the other platforms
> don't have:
> In a forum, e.g., I feel that I somehow get better contact to users of
> my apps.
> See, e.g., the SkippingStones work-in-progress thread as example:
> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=92695
> I also enjoy to read some rather off-topic discussions like "Look what I
> drew on my phone" once in a while (which I wouldn't like ending up in my
> e-mail inbox btw.).
> There were also other aspects that got mentioned throughout this
> discussion that I found important.
> Unfortunately, I am pretty much on the run at the moment so I cannot
> repeat everything in detail.
> 
> Generally, I got quite accustomed to using a forum.
> But then this is all about personal habits that one got used to.
> 
> Right now, I am primarily using the Sailfish OS etc. sections at
> talk.maemo.org as "semi-official" Sailfish OS/Jolla forum replacement.
> So, in a sense, there is already something like a forum.
> Maybe this is a viable approach that can be used in the meantime?
> 
> 
> 
> BR
> 
> Ruediger
> 
> > Stefano
> > ___
> > SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
> > To unsubscribe, please send a mail to
> > devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org

___
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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Denis Zalevskiy]

On Monday 26 May 2014 10:18:00 Luca Donaggio wrote:
> +1 for keeping this ML and (eventually) improving TJC.
> 
> Personally, TJC currently suffers of one big drawback, which is not even
> technical: it is perceived more as a generic issue-reporting /
> feature-requesting tool than anything else.

+1

So, it just need to be visually boosted:

- to have some ready-made templates for new posts

- to have also forum-like page just hiding tags under the hood :)

- denis

> Developer related questions have always been reported on this ML first, and
> later on TJC mainly when it resulted in a bug of some sort.
> 
> I'm not against forums, I just can't afford following another on-line
> source, two is more than enough for my (limited I must admit) spare time :-)
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 9:53 AM, Norbert Wenzel <
> 
> norbert.wenzel.li...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 05/26/2014 09:21 AM, Ruediger Gad wrote:
> > > Why not let the users make the decision?
> > > I.e., we have a mailing list and a Q&A site already, just the forum is
> > > missing.
> > > So, if there were a forum as well, it would show over time how the usage
> > > and the user counts of the different infrastructures develops.
> > 
> > I know that from other projects and what happened there was that some
> > people use forums and some people use mailinglists. The two communities
> > don't have much intersection. Which might or might not be a desired
> > outcome depending on the size of the community.
> > 
> > Personally I have to say that I wouldn't use a forum or any other
> > web-based platform. I mean, if I really had to I'd post my question
> > there but I wouldn't follow discussions, since I'd need to actively
> > visit the forum. I prefer ML because I have one single spot where all
> > messages of all lists can be found and I'm reading along when I have the
> > time to do so.
> > 
> > So besides my personal opinion I just wanted to say that too many
> > options for discussion might lead to fragmentation instead of making
> > everybody happy.
> > 
> > Norbert
> > ___
> > SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
> > To unsubscribe, please send a mail to
> > devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org

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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Denis Zalevskiy]

On Monday 26 May 2014 10:52:43 Andrea Bernabei wrote:
> I agree, sections and subsections are important, random tags can't take
> their role imho :/
> 
> An alternative could be to force people to use only a LIMITED number of
> tags decided by Jolla?
> 
> in that way we'd only have tags which basically act as sections.
> 
> That means losing tags as we know it, and trying to turn tags into
> something like sections
> 

tags are much more flexible. Maybe just need to suppy ability to create custom 
set of tags and remember it as the custom search aka Section :)

- denis

> 2014-05-26 10:49 GMT+02:00 :
> > Without sections and subsection it is only ocean of mess. Mess of tags not
> > helped. :(
> > Kaacz
> > 
> > Mon May 26 2014 09:50:11 GMT+0200 (CEST), Stefano Mosconi napsal:
> > > On 26/05/14 10:21, Ruediger Gad wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > > 
> > > > just to add a bit of my opinion as well.
> > > > 
> > > > Just a mailing list is imho not enough.
> > > > 
> > > > Personally, I like a forum.
> > > > Even though, due to its nature(?), it might attract more OT
> > > > discussion.
> > > > However, such OT discussion can be canalized by proper categorization,
> > > > e.g., OT sections etc.
> > > > Canalizing discussions into topics, e.g., hardware, software, OT,
> > > > general, etc. is imho one nice feature of a forum.
> > > > But other neat features had been mentioned here already as well.
> > > > 
> > > > I think Q&A sites like stackoverflow or tjc are also very handy.
> > > > 
> > > > Why not let the users make the decision?
> > > > I.e., we have a mailing list and a Q&A site already, just the forum is
> > > > missing.
> > > 
> > > Aren't a Q&A site *and* a forum quite overlapping?
> > > 
> > > What is missing from the current together.jolla.com that you would have
> > 
> > in a forum?
> > 
> > > Currently (to my knowledge):
> > >   * You can edit your posts afterwards
> > >   * You can have sticky posts
> > >   * You can find quickly the right [TM] answer
> > >   * You can have karma
> > >   * You cannot have sections and subsections (but you have tags)
> > >   * You can have mail notifications of posts
> > > 
> > > Should we invest our time into making a better together.jolla.comrather
> > > than a different platform (this is not rhetorical)?
> > > 
> > > Stefano
> > > ___
> > > SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
> > > To unsubscribe, please send a mail to
> > 
> > devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > Sent from Jolla phone. Powered by Linux. No Windows, no viruses. :)
> > ___
> > SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
> > To unsubscribe, please send a mail to
> > devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org

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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Denis Zalevskiy]

On Monday 26 May 2014 10:49:51 sfietkonstan...@free.fr wrote:
> +1
> TMO is often the forum of choice for many developers (me included), to

maybe because you are using TMO for a long time and have a habbit to use it ? 
Also because many people who develop and developed for mobile linux also has 
the same habbit :) So, it is easier to find 'em there.

- denis

> communicate with users. TJC could have taken this role, but the flat
> hiearchy, and the focus on QA, it don't fit that much for a discussion
> (especially between users and devs).
> 
> - Mail original -
> De: "Ruediger Gad" 
> À: "Sailfish OS Developers" 
> Envoyé: Lundi 26 Mai 2014 10:16:34
> Objet: Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum
> 
> On 05/26/2014 09:50 AM, Stefano Mosconi wrote:
> > ...
> > 
> > Should we invest our time into making a better together.jolla.com rather
> > than a different platform (this is not rhetorical)?
> 
> Thanks for you answer, both Norbert and you. :)
> Indeed, the time overhead to manage multiple platforms as well as the
> points Nobert mentioned are important aspects and to be honest I have no
> clue about weighting the real trade-offs.
> 
> With respect to the question what a forum has that the other platforms
> don't have:
> In a forum, e.g., I feel that I somehow get better contact to users of
> my apps.
> See, e.g., the SkippingStones work-in-progress thread as example:
> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=92695
> I also enjoy to read some rather off-topic discussions like "Look what I
> drew on my phone" once in a while (which I wouldn't like ending up in my
> e-mail inbox btw.).
> There were also other aspects that got mentioned throughout this
> discussion that I found important.
> Unfortunately, I am pretty much on the run at the moment so I cannot
> repeat everything in detail.
> 
> Generally, I got quite accustomed to using a forum.
> But then this is all about personal habits that one got used to.
> 
> Right now, I am primarily using the Sailfish OS etc. sections at
> talk.maemo.org as "semi-official" Sailfish OS/Jolla forum replacement.
> So, in a sense, there is already something like a forum.
> Maybe this is a viable approach that can be used in the meantime?
> 
> 
> 
> BR
> 
> Ruediger
> 
> > Stefano
> > ___
> > SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
> > To unsubscribe, please send a mail to
> > devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org

___
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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Andrea Bernabei]

I agree, sections and subsections are important, random tags can't take
their role imho :/

An alternative could be to force people to use only a LIMITED number of
tags decided by Jolla?

in that way we'd only have tags which basically act as sections.

That means losing tags as we know it, and trying to turn tags into
something like sections


2014-05-26 10:49 GMT+02:00 :

> Without sections and subsection it is only ocean of mess. Mess of tags not
> helped. :(
> Kaacz
>
> Mon May 26 2014 09:50:11 GMT+0200 (CEST), Stefano Mosconi napsal:
> > On 26/05/14 10:21, Ruediger Gad wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > just to add a bit of my opinion as well.
> > >
> > > Just a mailing list is imho not enough.
> > >
> > > Personally, I like a forum.
> > > Even though, due to its nature(?), it might attract more OT discussion.
> > > However, such OT discussion can be canalized by proper categorization,
> > > e.g., OT sections etc.
> > > Canalizing discussions into topics, e.g., hardware, software, OT,
> > > general, etc. is imho one nice feature of a forum.
> > > But other neat features had been mentioned here already as well.
> > >
> > > I think Q&A sites like stackoverflow or tjc are also very handy.
> > >
> > > Why not let the users make the decision?
> > > I.e., we have a mailing list and a Q&A site already, just the forum is
> > > missing.
> >
> > Aren't a Q&A site *and* a forum quite overlapping?
> >
> > What is missing from the current together.jolla.com that you would have
> in a forum?
> >
> > Currently (to my knowledge):
> >   * You can edit your posts afterwards
> >   * You can have sticky posts
> >   * You can find quickly the right [TM] answer
> >   * You can have karma
> >   * You cannot have sections and subsections (but you have tags)
> >   * You can have mail notifications of posts
> >
> > Should we invest our time into making a better together.jolla.comrather 
> > than a
> > different platform (this is not rhetorical)?
> >
> > Stefano
> > ___
> > SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
> > To unsubscribe, please send a mail to
> devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org
> >
>
> --
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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[kaa]

Without sections and subsection it is only ocean of mess. Mess of tags not 
helped. :(
Kaacz

Mon May 26 2014 09:50:11 GMT+0200 (CEST), Stefano Mosconi napsal:
> On 26/05/14 10:21, Ruediger Gad wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > just to add a bit of my opinion as well.
> >
> > Just a mailing list is imho not enough.
> >
> > Personally, I like a forum.
> > Even though, due to its nature(?), it might attract more OT discussion.
> > However, such OT discussion can be canalized by proper categorization,
> > e.g., OT sections etc.
> > Canalizing discussions into topics, e.g., hardware, software, OT,
> > general, etc. is imho one nice feature of a forum.
> > But other neat features had been mentioned here already as well.
> >
> > I think Q&A sites like stackoverflow or tjc are also very handy.
> >
> > Why not let the users make the decision?
> > I.e., we have a mailing list and a Q&A site already, just the forum is
> > missing.
> 
> Aren't a Q&A site *and* a forum quite overlapping?
> 
> What is missing from the current together.jolla.com that you would have in a 
> forum?
> 
> Currently (to my knowledge):
>   * You can edit your posts afterwards
>   * You can have sticky posts
>   * You can find quickly the right [TM] answer
>   * You can have karma
>   * You cannot have sections and subsections (but you have tags)
>   * You can have mail notifications of posts
> 
> Should we invest our time into making a better together.jolla.com rather than 
> a 
> different platform (this is not rhetorical)?
> 
> Stefano
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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[sfietkonstantin]

+1
TMO is often the forum of choice for many developers (me included), to 
communicate with users.
TJC could have taken this role, but the flat hiearchy, and the focus on QA, it 
don't fit that much for a discussion (especially between users and devs).

- Mail original -
De: "Ruediger Gad" 
À: "Sailfish OS Developers" 
Envoyé: Lundi 26 Mai 2014 10:16:34
Objet: Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

On 05/26/2014 09:50 AM, Stefano Mosconi wrote:
> ...
> 
> Should we invest our time into making a better together.jolla.com rather
> than a different platform (this is not rhetorical)?

Thanks for you answer, both Norbert and you. :)
Indeed, the time overhead to manage multiple platforms as well as the
points Nobert mentioned are important aspects and to be honest I have no
clue about weighting the real trade-offs.

With respect to the question what a forum has that the other platforms
don't have:
In a forum, e.g., I feel that I somehow get better contact to users of
my apps.
See, e.g., the SkippingStones work-in-progress thread as example:
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=92695
I also enjoy to read some rather off-topic discussions like "Look what I
drew on my phone" once in a while (which I wouldn't like ending up in my
e-mail inbox btw.).
There were also other aspects that got mentioned throughout this
discussion that I found important.
Unfortunately, I am pretty much on the run at the moment so I cannot
repeat everything in detail.

Generally, I got quite accustomed to using a forum.
But then this is all about personal habits that one got used to.

Right now, I am primarily using the Sailfish OS etc. sections at
talk.maemo.org as "semi-official" Sailfish OS/Jolla forum replacement.
So, in a sense, there is already something like a forum.
Maybe this is a viable approach that can be used in the meantime?



BR

Ruediger




> 
> Stefano
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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Dag Nygren]

On Monday 26 May 2014 10:07:04 Erlend Böe wrote:
> Hi Stefano
> 
> first make Wifi actually work, then invest time in building a better Stack 
> overflow/Forum.
> As it is, I stopped using my Jolla as my main phone. This was mainly due to 
> not being able to connect to wifi at work, and having to reboot every 5 days.

WiFi works fine here. And no reboots for months now.

Have you made a bug report?

Best
Dag

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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Luca Donaggio]

+1 for keeping this ML and (eventually) improving TJC.

Personally, TJC currently suffers of one big drawback, which is not even
technical: it is perceived more as a generic issue-reporting /
feature-requesting tool than anything else.
Developer related questions have always been reported on this ML first, and
later on TJC mainly when it resulted in a bug of some sort.

I'm not against forums, I just can't afford following another on-line
source, two is more than enough for my (limited I must admit) spare time :-)



On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 9:53 AM, Norbert Wenzel <
norbert.wenzel.li...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 05/26/2014 09:21 AM, Ruediger Gad wrote:
> > Why not let the users make the decision?
> > I.e., we have a mailing list and a Q&A site already, just the forum is
> > missing.
> > So, if there were a forum as well, it would show over time how the usage
> > and the user counts of the different infrastructures develops.
>
> I know that from other projects and what happened there was that some
> people use forums and some people use mailinglists. The two communities
> don't have much intersection. Which might or might not be a desired
> outcome depending on the size of the community.
>
> Personally I have to say that I wouldn't use a forum or any other
> web-based platform. I mean, if I really had to I'd post my question
> there but I wouldn't follow discussions, since I'd need to actively
> visit the forum. I prefer ML because I have one single spot where all
> messages of all lists can be found and I'm reading along when I have the
> time to do so.
>
> So besides my personal opinion I just wanted to say that too many
> options for discussion might lead to fragmentation instead of making
> everybody happy.
>
> Norbert
> ___
> SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
> To unsubscribe, please send a mail to
> devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org
>



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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Ruediger Gad]

On 05/26/2014 09:50 AM, Stefano Mosconi wrote:
> ...
> 
> Should we invest our time into making a better together.jolla.com rather
> than a different platform (this is not rhetorical)?

Thanks for you answer, both Norbert and you. :)
Indeed, the time overhead to manage multiple platforms as well as the
points Nobert mentioned are important aspects and to be honest I have no
clue about weighting the real trade-offs.

With respect to the question what a forum has that the other platforms
don't have:
In a forum, e.g., I feel that I somehow get better contact to users of
my apps.
See, e.g., the SkippingStones work-in-progress thread as example:
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=92695
I also enjoy to read some rather off-topic discussions like "Look what I
drew on my phone" once in a while (which I wouldn't like ending up in my
e-mail inbox btw.).
There were also other aspects that got mentioned throughout this
discussion that I found important.
Unfortunately, I am pretty much on the run at the moment so I cannot
repeat everything in detail.

Generally, I got quite accustomed to using a forum.
But then this is all about personal habits that one got used to.

Right now, I am primarily using the Sailfish OS etc. sections at
talk.maemo.org as "semi-official" Sailfish OS/Jolla forum replacement.
So, in a sense, there is already something like a forum.
Maybe this is a viable approach that can be used in the meantime?



BR

Ruediger




> 
> Stefano
> ___
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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Martin Windolph]

Hi,

personally, I like the structure of pages like stackoverflow and TJC a lot more 
than usual forums, because of it's flat structure organized by tags. I don't 
know if the usage of TJC for developer question irritates some users to much or 
if the mixture can be even good so that a few wishes and users meanings can be 
mixed into the technical questions.
But TJC would need a bit of improvements for that, e.g. some kind of saved 
searches, I can organize in "tabs" (instead of "All", "Unanswered" and 
"Followed"). Help wouldn't be that good if you can ask your questions there, 
but nobody finds them to answer (it gets mixed with a lot of other non-devel 
questions), so every developer question should be easy to mark as such 
(predefined tag?).
The mailing list is quite good in case someone needs a fast answer because the 
questions are directly in the inbox of everyone of us and organizing works with 
some Mail Clients. But I often use just my Jolla or some other smartphone, when 
I'm not at home and then it gets quite difficult to track the topics because of 
the missing structure. Searching is also not as simple and different from 
device to device.

So my vote goes for tjc with additions for developers. Subscribing should also 
be easy, so that I can get a mail from tjc when some question/answer arrives. I 
can delete all these mails and the questions/answers are all stored on tjc.

BR
Martin


> Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 10:50:11 +0300
> From: stefano.mosc...@jolla.com
> To: devel@lists.sailfishos.org
> Subject: Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum
> 
> On 26/05/14 10:21, Ruediger Gad wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > just to add a bit of my opinion as well.
> >
> > Just a mailing list is imho not enough.
> >
> > Personally, I like a forum.
> > Even though, due to its nature(?), it might attract more OT discussion.
> > However, such OT discussion can be canalized by proper categorization,
> > e.g., OT sections etc.
> > Canalizing discussions into topics, e.g., hardware, software, OT,
> > general, etc. is imho one nice feature of a forum.
> > But other neat features had been mentioned here already as well.
> >
> > I think Q&A sites like stackoverflow or tjc are also very handy.
> >
> > Why not let the users make the decision?
> > I.e., we have a mailing list and a Q&A site already, just the forum is
> > missing.
> 
> Aren't a Q&A site *and* a forum quite overlapping?
> 
> What is missing from the current together.jolla.com that you would have in a 
> forum?
> 
> Currently (to my knowledge):
>   * You can edit your posts afterwards
>   * You can have sticky posts
>   * You can find quickly the right [TM] answer
>   * You can have karma
>   * You cannot have sections and subsections (but you have tags)
>   * You can have mail notifications of posts
> 
> Should we invest our time into making a better together.jolla.com rather than 
> a 
> different platform (this is not rhetorical)?
> 
> Stefano
> ___
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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Erlend Böe]

Hi Stefano

first make Wifi actually work, then invest time in building a better Stack 
overflow/Forum.
As it is, I stopped using my Jolla as my main phone. This was mainly due to not 
being able to connect to wifi at work, and having to reboot every 5 days.

Regards
Erlend

PS: Taking time to actually answer the valid questions from Filip (SIM, 
Opensource, etc) would also be nice.

On 26.05.2014, at 09:50, Stefano Mosconi  wrote:

> On 26/05/14 10:21, Ruediger Gad wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> just to add a bit of my opinion as well.
>> 
>> Just a mailing list is imho not enough.
>> 
>> Personally, I like a forum.
>> Even though, due to its nature(?), it might attract more OT discussion.
>> However, such OT discussion can be canalized by proper categorization,
>> e.g., OT sections etc.
>> Canalizing discussions into topics, e.g., hardware, software, OT,
>> general, etc. is imho one nice feature of a forum.
>> But other neat features had been mentioned here already as well.
>> 
>> I think Q&A sites like stackoverflow or tjc are also very handy.
>> 
>> Why not let the users make the decision?
>> I.e., we have a mailing list and a Q&A site already, just the forum is
>> missing.
> 
> Aren't a Q&A site *and* a forum quite overlapping?
> 
> What is missing from the current together.jolla.com that you would have in a 
> forum?
> 
> Currently (to my knowledge):
> * You can edit your posts afterwards
> * You can have sticky posts
> * You can find quickly the right [TM] answer
> * You can have karma
> * You cannot have sections and subsections (but you have tags)
> * You can have mail notifications of posts
> 
> Should we invest our time into making a better together.jolla.com rather than 
> a different platform (this is not rhetorical)?
> 
> Stefano
> ___
> SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Kimmo Lindholm]

To take TJC in use, atleast we need to agree a specific tag to be used;
(atm seems that there are few in use: app-development, development, silica, 
qml, ...)

And then subscribe that tag, you got them all in your mail.

-kimmo

-Original Message-
From: devel-boun...@lists.sailfishos.org 
[mailto:devel-boun...@lists.sailfishos.org] On Behalf Of Norbert Wenzel
Sent: 26. toukokuuta 2014 10:54
To: devel@lists.sailfishos.org
Subject: Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

On 05/26/2014 09:21 AM, Ruediger Gad wrote:
> Why not let the users make the decision?
> I.e., we have a mailing list and a Q&A site already, just the forum is
> missing.
> So, if there were a forum as well, it would show over time how the usage
> and the user counts of the different infrastructures develops.

I know that from other projects and what happened there was that some
people use forums and some people use mailinglists. The two communities
don't have much intersection. Which might or might not be a desired
outcome depending on the size of the community.

Personally I have to say that I wouldn't use a forum or any other
web-based platform. I mean, if I really had to I'd post my question
there but I wouldn't follow discussions, since I'd need to actively
visit the forum. I prefer ML because I have one single spot where all
messages of all lists can be found and I'm reading along when I have the
time to do so.

So besides my personal opinion I just wanted to say that too many
options for discussion might lead to fragmentation instead of making
everybody happy.

Norbert
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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Andrea Bernabei]

You don't need to follow the forum...there are subscriptions, which you can
also enable by default on all threads, if you want a ML-like "send me an
email with the content of every new post"


2014-05-26 9:53 GMT+02:00 Norbert Wenzel :

> On 05/26/2014 09:21 AM, Ruediger Gad wrote:
> > Why not let the users make the decision?
> > I.e., we have a mailing list and a Q&A site already, just the forum is
> > missing.
> > So, if there were a forum as well, it would show over time how the usage
> > and the user counts of the different infrastructures develops.
>
> I know that from other projects and what happened there was that some
> people use forums and some people use mailinglists. The two communities
> don't have much intersection. Which might or might not be a desired
> outcome depending on the size of the community.
>
> Personally I have to say that I wouldn't use a forum or any other
> web-based platform. I mean, if I really had to I'd post my question
> there but I wouldn't follow discussions, since I'd need to actively
> visit the forum. I prefer ML because I have one single spot where all
> messages of all lists can be found and I'm reading along when I have the
> time to do so.
>
> So besides my personal opinion I just wanted to say that too many
> options for discussion might lead to fragmentation instead of making
> everybody happy.
>
> Norbert
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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Norbert Wenzel]

On 05/26/2014 09:21 AM, Ruediger Gad wrote:
> Why not let the users make the decision?
> I.e., we have a mailing list and a Q&A site already, just the forum is
> missing.
> So, if there were a forum as well, it would show over time how the usage
> and the user counts of the different infrastructures develops.

I know that from other projects and what happened there was that some
people use forums and some people use mailinglists. The two communities
don't have much intersection. Which might or might not be a desired
outcome depending on the size of the community.

Personally I have to say that I wouldn't use a forum or any other
web-based platform. I mean, if I really had to I'd post my question
there but I wouldn't follow discussions, since I'd need to actively
visit the forum. I prefer ML because I have one single spot where all
messages of all lists can be found and I'm reading along when I have the
time to do so.

So besides my personal opinion I just wanted to say that too many
options for discussion might lead to fragmentation instead of making
everybody happy.

Norbert
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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Stefano Mosconi]

On 26/05/14 10:21, Ruediger Gad wrote:

Hi,

just to add a bit of my opinion as well.

Just a mailing list is imho not enough.

Personally, I like a forum.
Even though, due to its nature(?), it might attract more OT discussion.
However, such OT discussion can be canalized by proper categorization,
e.g., OT sections etc.
Canalizing discussions into topics, e.g., hardware, software, OT,
general, etc. is imho one nice feature of a forum.
But other neat features had been mentioned here already as well.

I think Q&A sites like stackoverflow or tjc are also very handy.

Why not let the users make the decision?
I.e., we have a mailing list and a Q&A site already, just the forum is
missing.


Aren't a Q&A site *and* a forum quite overlapping?

What is missing from the current together.jolla.com that you would have in a 
forum?

Currently (to my knowledge):
 * You can edit your posts afterwards
 * You can have sticky posts
 * You can find quickly the right [TM] answer
 * You can have karma
 * You cannot have sections and subsections (but you have tags)
 * You can have mail notifications of posts

Should we invest our time into making a better together.jolla.com rather than a 
different platform (this is not rhetorical)?


Stefano
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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Ruediger Gad]

Hi,

just to add a bit of my opinion as well.

Just a mailing list is imho not enough.

Personally, I like a forum.
Even though, due to its nature(?), it might attract more OT discussion.
However, such OT discussion can be canalized by proper categorization,
e.g., OT sections etc.
Canalizing discussions into topics, e.g., hardware, software, OT,
general, etc. is imho one nice feature of a forum.
But other neat features had been mentioned here already as well.

I think Q&A sites like stackoverflow or tjc are also very handy.

Why not let the users make the decision?
I.e., we have a mailing list and a Q&A site already, just the forum is
missing.
So, if there were a forum as well, it would show over time how the usage
and the user counts of the different infrastructures develops.



BR,

Ruediger




On 05/26/2014 08:45 AM, Denis Zalevskiy wrote:
> On Sunday 25 May 2014 18:43:03 Saija Saarenpää wrote:
>> I prefer the editing abilities a forum gives over everything else.
>> For example QtProject forum http://qt-project.org has done it really well.
>> They have the possibility to extend the documentation by leaving notes and
>> code examples. Also a whole section to provide snippets.
>  
>> The thing which I dislike in mailing lists that sometimes for solving a
>> simple issue I need to read the whole chain of emails to catch the one
>> which has the correct and working solution. In the forum it's possible to
>> modify the original question to include the correct answer or even save a
>> separate code snippet in the wiki, which is easy to find if tagged
>> properly.
>  
> You are talking about Q&A sites == TJC, they implement it in a way better 
> than 
> forum  And the good part is that there is no fixed sections: they are 
> individual based on tags. And anybody can set own set of tag filters (to 
> filter 
> out e.g. ranting).
> 
> - denis
> 
>> - Saija
>>
>> Ircnet/freenode/matrixx
>> @setelani
>>
>> Lähetetty iPadista
>>
>>
>>> "Christopher Lamb"  kirjoitti 25.5.2014 kello
>>> 18.13:
>  
>>> Hi Thomas
>>>
>>> Thanks for your input.
>>>
>>> I suspect the whole "mailing-list vs forum" thing will be a matter of
>>> taste and experience. Both have their plus sides and downsides.
>  
>>> I am now trying out Thunderbird, but will hold of commenting until I have
>>> got used to it.
>  
>>>
>>>
 On 24.05.14 19:32, "Thomas B. Rücker" wrote:
 Hi,
 ...

> * Private Messages

 I'm not sure if you are serious.
 Did you hear about this thing called … email?
 ...
>>>
>>>
>>> I counter with "have you heard of this thing called privacy?" In some
>>> forums your email is suppresed by default. Other users only see your
>>> avatar, and thus pms are used for "back-channel" talk instead of email.
>>> In a small intimate community like this one, privacy (or invasion
>>> thereof) should not be a problem, but that might change if the community
>>> were to mushroom in size.
>  
>>> m.f.g
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> B.t.w my Pizza has to be the classic Napoli ...
>>>
>>>
>>>
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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Denis Zalevskiy]

On Sunday 25 May 2014 18:43:03 Saija Saarenpää wrote:
> I prefer the editing abilities a forum gives over everything else.
> For example QtProject forum http://qt-project.org has done it really well.
> They have the possibility to extend the documentation by leaving notes and
> code examples. Also a whole section to provide snippets.
 
> The thing which I dislike in mailing lists that sometimes for solving a
> simple issue I need to read the whole chain of emails to catch the one
> which has the correct and working solution. In the forum it's possible to
> modify the original question to include the correct answer or even save a
> separate code snippet in the wiki, which is easy to find if tagged
> properly.
 
You are talking about Q&A sites == TJC, they implement it in a way better than 
forum  And the good part is that there is no fixed sections: they are 
individual based on tags. And anybody can set own set of tag filters (to filter 
out e.g. ranting).

- denis

> - Saija
> 
> Ircnet/freenode/matrixx
> @setelani
> 
> Lähetetty iPadista
> 
> 
> > "Christopher Lamb"  kirjoitti 25.5.2014 kello
> > 18.13:
 
> > Hi Thomas
> > 
> > Thanks for your input.
> > 
> > I suspect the whole "mailing-list vs forum" thing will be a matter of
> > taste and experience. Both have their plus sides and downsides.
 
> > I am now trying out Thunderbird, but will hold of commenting until I have
> > got used to it.
 
> > 
> > 
> >> On 24.05.14 19:32, "Thomas B. Rücker" wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >> ...
> >> 
> >>> * Private Messages
> >> 
> >> I'm not sure if you are serious.
> >> Did you hear about this thing called … email?
> >> ...
> > 
> > 
> > I counter with "have you heard of this thing called privacy?" In some
> > forums your email is suppresed by default. Other users only see your
> > avatar, and thus pms are used for "back-channel" talk instead of email.
> > In a small intimate community like this one, privacy (or invasion
> > thereof) should not be a problem, but that might change if the community
> > were to mushroom in size.
 
> > m.f.g
> > 
> > Chris
> > 
> > B.t.w my Pizza has to be the classic Napoli ...
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Andrea Bernabei]

I'm all for forums, personally.

I don't like mailing lists particularly. And the only facts that it takes a
decent email client to handle them well is a pretty important requirement,
imho...

I vote for a forum (I voted in the past as well, but it seems it didn't
help :D )


2014-05-25 17:44 GMT+02:00 Joseph Crowell :

> On 5/26/2014 1:43 AM, Saija Saarenpää wrote:
>
>> I prefer the editing abilities a forum gives over everything else.
>> For example QtProject forum http://qt-project.org has done it really
>> well. They have the possibility to extend the documentation by leaving
>> notes and code examples. Also a whole section to provide snippets.
>>
>> The thing which I dislike in mailing lists that sometimes for solving a
>> simple issue I need to read the whole chain of emails to catch the one
>> which has the correct and working solution. In the forum it's possible to
>> modify the original question to include the correct answer or even save a
>> separate code snippet in the wiki, which is easy to find if tagged properly.
>>
>
> +100
>
>
>
>> - Saija
>>
>> Ircnet/freenode/matrixx
>> @setelani
>>
>> Lähetetty iPadista
>>
>>  "Christopher Lamb"  kirjoitti 25.5.2014
>>> kello 18.13:
>>>
>>> Hi Thomas
>>>
>>> Thanks for your input.
>>>
>>> I suspect the whole "mailing-list vs forum" thing will be a matter of
>>> taste and experience. Both have their plus sides and downsides.
>>>
>>> I am now trying out Thunderbird, but will hold of commenting until I
>>> have got used to it.
>>>
>>>
>>>  On 24.05.14 19:32, "Thomas B. Rücker" wrote:
 Hi,
 ...

> * Private Messages
>
 I'm not sure if you are serious.
 Did you hear about this thing called … email?
 ...

>>> I counter with "have you heard of this thing called privacy?" In some
>>> forums your email is suppresed by default. Other users only see your
>>> avatar, and thus pms are used for "back-channel" talk instead of email. In
>>> a small intimate community like this one, privacy (or invasion thereof)
>>> should not be a problem, but that might change if the community were to
>>> mushroom in size.
>>>
>>> m.f.g
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> B.t.w my Pizza has to be the classic Napoli ...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
>>> To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscribe@lists.
>>> sailfishos.org
>>>
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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Joseph Crowell]

On 5/26/2014 1:43 AM, Saija Saarenpää wrote:

I prefer the editing abilities a forum gives over everything else.
For example QtProject forum http://qt-project.org has done it really well. They 
have the possibility to extend the documentation by leaving notes and code 
examples. Also a whole section to provide snippets.

The thing which I dislike in mailing lists that sometimes for solving a simple 
issue I need to read the whole chain of emails to catch the one which has the 
correct and working solution. In the forum it's possible to modify the original 
question to include the correct answer or even save a separate code snippet in 
the wiki, which is easy to find if tagged properly.


+100



- Saija

Ircnet/freenode/matrixx
@setelani

Lähetetty iPadista


"Christopher Lamb"  kirjoitti 25.5.2014 kello 
18.13:

Hi Thomas

Thanks for your input.

I suspect the whole "mailing-list vs forum" thing will be a matter of taste and 
experience. Both have their plus sides and downsides.

I am now trying out Thunderbird, but will hold of commenting until I have got 
used to it.



On 24.05.14 19:32, "Thomas B. Rücker" wrote:
Hi,
...

* Private Messages

I'm not sure if you are serious.
Did you hear about this thing called … email?
...

I counter with "have you heard of this thing called privacy?" In some forums your email 
is suppresed by default. Other users only see your avatar, and thus pms are used for 
"back-channel" talk instead of email. In a small intimate community like this one, 
privacy (or invasion thereof) should not be a problem, but that might change if the community were 
to mushroom in size.

m.f.g

Chris

B.t.w my Pizza has to be the classic Napoli ...



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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Saija Saarenpää]

I prefer the editing abilities a forum gives over everything else.
For example QtProject forum http://qt-project.org has done it really well. They 
have the possibility to extend the documentation by leaving notes and code 
examples. Also a whole section to provide snippets.

The thing which I dislike in mailing lists that sometimes for solving a simple 
issue I need to read the whole chain of emails to catch the one which has the 
correct and working solution. In the forum it's possible to modify the original 
question to include the correct answer or even save a separate code snippet in 
the wiki, which is easy to find if tagged properly.

- Saija

Ircnet/freenode/matrixx
@setelani

Lähetetty iPadista

> "Christopher Lamb"  kirjoitti 25.5.2014 kello 
> 18.13:
> 
> Hi Thomas
> 
> Thanks for your input.
> 
> I suspect the whole "mailing-list vs forum" thing will be a matter of taste 
> and experience. Both have their plus sides and downsides.
> 
> I am now trying out Thunderbird, but will hold of commenting until I have got 
> used to it.
> 
> 
>> On 24.05.14 19:32, "Thomas B. Rücker" wrote:
>> Hi,
>> ...
>>> * Private Messages
>> I'm not sure if you are serious.
>> Did you hear about this thing called … email?
>> ...
> 
> I counter with "have you heard of this thing called privacy?" In some forums 
> your email is suppresed by default. Other users only see your avatar, and 
> thus pms are used for "back-channel" talk instead of email. In a small 
> intimate community like this one, privacy (or invasion thereof) should not be 
> a problem, but that might change if the community were to mushroom in size.
> 
> m.f.g
> 
> Chris
> 
> B.t.w my Pizza has to be the classic Napoli ...
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Christopher Lamb]

Hi Thomas

Thanks for your input.

I suspect the whole "mailing-list vs forum" thing will be a matter of 
taste and experience. Both have their plus sides and downsides.


I am now trying out Thunderbird, but will hold of commenting until I 
have got used to it.



On 24.05.14 19:32, "Thomas B. Rücker" wrote:

Hi,
...

* Private Messages

I'm not sure if you are serious.
Did you hear about this thing called … email?
...


I counter with "have you heard of this thing called privacy?" In some 
forums your email is suppresed by default. Other users only see your 
avatar, and thus pms are used for "back-channel" talk instead of email. 
In a small intimate community like this one, privacy (or invasion 
thereof) should not be a problem, but that might change if the community 
were to mushroom in size.


m.f.g

Chris

B.t.w my Pizza has to be the classic Napoli ...



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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Tone Kastlunger]

Errata-corridge : Wy do mailing lists to which you subscribe NOT
automatically configure a folder structure?


On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 11:57 AM, Tone Kastlunger  wrote:

> Also Exchange can do that; and even GMail to my knowledge. But it is
> unpractical to push the responsability to the end-user, why would it need
> to change then? It can just be how it is. I believe the idea is to improve
> the situation, for example one way could be to advice users to properly
> configure their mail clients with correct folders. I wonder, why do mailing
> lists to which you subscribe automatically configure a folder structure?
>
>
> On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 5:17 AM, Joseph Crowell <
> joseph.w.crow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 5/25/2014 2:34 AM, christopher.l...@thurweb.ch wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Lauri
>>>
>>> That is an interesting perspective: my feeling / experience was exactly
>>> the opposite: the chief weakness of mailing lists is that they have no
>>> usability whatsoever: I get just a flat list of unorganised mails swamping
>>> my inbox.
>>>
>>> That of course may be down to the weaknesses of the web-mail client I
>>> use. I would welcome advice on "best-practice" tools for consuming mailing
>>> lists. I am (mostly) on OSX, sometimes on Windows and Linux. To quote
>>> Churchill "give us the tools and we will do the job".
>>>
>>>
>> Thunderbird allows a threaded view which works great for a threaded view
>> and 'detects' mail server settings when you put in your email address. I
>> filter mailing list mails from KDE, Qt and Sailfish in to their respective
>> folders and then on each of those folders I [View > Sort By > Threaded] on
>> each of those folders.
>>
>>
>>  From my point-of-view, plus points for usability of forums over mailing
>>> lists are (in no special order):
>>> * Stickies
>>> * Sub forums
>>> * Search
>>> * Private Messages
>>> * Edit previous posts (I could have used that today when I inadvertently
>>> clicked send too early)
>>> * Thread based perspective
>>> * Does not fill my mail file
>>> * Visible metadata such as number of replies, date of most recent reply,
>>> number of posts etc.
>>>
>>> Downsides of forums are:
>>> * yet another user/password to manage (although a forum could be
>>> integrated into together.jolla.com
>>> * yet another site to visit regularly (in addition to my mail client)
>>> * karma: so distracting, I prefer the simple egalitarianism /
>>> meritocracy of mailing lists
>>>
>>> Grüsse
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
>>> Zitat von "Lauri Nurmi" :
>>>
>>>  24.5.2014 13:56, christopher.l...@thurweb.ch kirjoitti:

> My suggestion is that rather than splitting into multiple mailing
> lists, which does not really cure anything, you replace the mailing lists
> with a forum. I agree it would be crazy to have both.
>

 -1

 Is there any forum platform whose usability is not totally terrible
 compared to mailing lists?

 First of all, to be able to keep track of who has replied to whose
 post, and which post, I want to see the posts as a tree. But offering such
 a tree view seems to be very rare on forums.


 LN

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>>>
>>>
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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Tone Kastlunger]

Also Exchange can do that; and even GMail to my knowledge. But it is
unpractical to push the responsability to the end-user, why would it need
to change then? It can just be how it is. I believe the idea is to improve
the situation, for example one way could be to advice users to properly
configure their mail clients with correct folders. I wonder, why do mailing
lists to which you subscribe automatically configure a folder structure?


On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 5:17 AM, Joseph Crowell
wrote:

>
> On 5/25/2014 2:34 AM, christopher.l...@thurweb.ch wrote:
>
>> Hi Lauri
>>
>> That is an interesting perspective: my feeling / experience was exactly
>> the opposite: the chief weakness of mailing lists is that they have no
>> usability whatsoever: I get just a flat list of unorganised mails swamping
>> my inbox.
>>
>> That of course may be down to the weaknesses of the web-mail client I
>> use. I would welcome advice on "best-practice" tools for consuming mailing
>> lists. I am (mostly) on OSX, sometimes on Windows and Linux. To quote
>> Churchill "give us the tools and we will do the job".
>>
>>
> Thunderbird allows a threaded view which works great for a threaded view
> and 'detects' mail server settings when you put in your email address. I
> filter mailing list mails from KDE, Qt and Sailfish in to their respective
> folders and then on each of those folders I [View > Sort By > Threaded] on
> each of those folders.
>
>
>  From my point-of-view, plus points for usability of forums over mailing
>> lists are (in no special order):
>> * Stickies
>> * Sub forums
>> * Search
>> * Private Messages
>> * Edit previous posts (I could have used that today when I inadvertently
>> clicked send too early)
>> * Thread based perspective
>> * Does not fill my mail file
>> * Visible metadata such as number of replies, date of most recent reply,
>> number of posts etc.
>>
>> Downsides of forums are:
>> * yet another user/password to manage (although a forum could be
>> integrated into together.jolla.com
>> * yet another site to visit regularly (in addition to my mail client)
>> * karma: so distracting, I prefer the simple egalitarianism / meritocracy
>> of mailing lists
>>
>> Grüsse
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>> Zitat von "Lauri Nurmi" :
>>
>>  24.5.2014 13:56, christopher.l...@thurweb.ch kirjoitti:
>>>
 My suggestion is that rather than splitting into multiple mailing
 lists, which does not really cure anything, you replace the mailing lists
 with a forum. I agree it would be crazy to have both.

>>>
>>> -1
>>>
>>> Is there any forum platform whose usability is not totally terrible
>>> compared to mailing lists?
>>>
>>> First of all, to be able to keep track of who has replied to whose post,
>>> and which post, I want to see the posts as a tree. But offering such a tree
>>> view seems to be very rare on forums.
>>>
>>>
>>> LN
>>>
>>> ___
>>> SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
>>> To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscribe@lists.
>>> sailfishos.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Joseph Crowell]

On 5/25/2014 2:34 AM, christopher.l...@thurweb.ch wrote:

Hi Lauri

That is an interesting perspective: my feeling / experience was 
exactly the opposite: the chief weakness of mailing lists is that they 
have no usability whatsoever: I get just a flat list of unorganised 
mails swamping my inbox.


That of course may be down to the weaknesses of the web-mail client I 
use. I would welcome advice on "best-practice" tools for consuming 
mailing lists. I am (mostly) on OSX, sometimes on Windows and Linux. 
To quote Churchill "give us the tools and we will do the job".




Thunderbird allows a threaded view which works great for a threaded view 
and 'detects' mail server settings when you put in your email address. I 
filter mailing list mails from KDE, Qt and Sailfish in to their 
respective folders and then on each of those folders I [View > Sort By > 
Threaded] on each of those folders.


From my point-of-view, plus points for usability of forums over 
mailing lists are (in no special order):

* Stickies
* Sub forums
* Search
* Private Messages
* Edit previous posts (I could have used that today when I 
inadvertently clicked send too early)

* Thread based perspective
* Does not fill my mail file
* Visible metadata such as number of replies, date of most recent 
reply, number of posts etc.


Downsides of forums are:
* yet another user/password to manage (although a forum could be 
integrated into together.jolla.com

* yet another site to visit regularly (in addition to my mail client)
* karma: so distracting, I prefer the simple egalitarianism / 
meritocracy of mailing lists


Grüsse

Chris


Zitat von "Lauri Nurmi" :


24.5.2014 13:56, christopher.l...@thurweb.ch kirjoitti:
My suggestion is that rather than splitting into multiple mailing 
lists, which does not really cure anything, you replace the mailing 
lists with a forum. I agree it would be crazy to have both.


-1

Is there any forum platform whose usability is not totally terrible 
compared to mailing lists?


First of all, to be able to keep track of who has replied to whose 
post, and which post, I want to see the posts as a tree. But offering 
such a tree view seems to be very rare on forums.



LN

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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Joseph Crowell]

See on a forum you could have just edited the last post.

On 5/24/2014 8:56 PM, christopher.l...@thurweb.ch wrote:
Ignore my last - I absentmindedly clicked "Send" before writing the 
content!


My suggestion is that rather than splitting into multiple mailing 
lists, which does not really cure anything, you replace the mailing 
lists with a forum. I agree it would be crazy to have both.


Martin points out that I could simulate the same with rules and 
filters: but that is post-fact, so if somebody starts spamming the 
list from different threads and sock-puppets, then I need to 
continually add new rules / filters. I prefer to spend my free time 
programming Sailfish apps, not rules in my mail client!


While there is talk.maemo.org, that serves a different role: it is an 
independent forum (as opposed to one owned by Jolla); and the Sailfish 
part has not divided into more focused sub-forums yet.


Chris


Zitat von christopher.l...@thurweb.ch:


Hi Iekku

Zitat von "Iekku Pylkka" :


Ahoy,

We have been pondering the idea about forum. Truth to be told, we 
are too small company to follow and contribute to that as well. We 
are following/contributing to several IRC channels, 
together.Jolla.com, this mailing list and I'm bombing our technical 
developers with developer-c...@jolla.com questions I can't answer 
and can't find easily (below 30 minutes). And we have huge amount of 
work to do :) Yes, we could have trusted community members as a 
moderators in forum, but we would love to contribute and _read_ 
those posts coming to forum.


Br,
Iekku Pylkkä

From: devel-boun...@lists.sailfishos.org 
[devel-boun...@lists.sailfishos.org] on behalf of Martin Kolman 
[martin.kol...@gmail.com]

Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 10:39 PM
To: devel@lists.sailfishos.org
Subject: Re: [SailfishDevel] Acceptable Behaviour Guidelines - you 
decide


23.5.2014 21:21, christopher.l...@thurweb.ch:

Hi Jarko

before we jump to splitting into multiple SF mailing lists, I wonder
has any thought been given to replacing the lists with a developer'
forum?

I fear that multiple lists would not really help - I would end up
subscribed to all of them (both those that I am very interested in,
and those that I am sometimes interested in), and thus my In-box would
be just as full as it is now.

A forum would be divided into sub-forums, and being thread oriented
(as opposed to post-oriented) I could freely choose which sub-forums
and which threads I chose to dive into, and which to ignore.

Well, roughly the same thing can (and usually is by people subscribing
to mailing list) achieved by setting up mail filters and redirecting
email to per-mailing-list folders. I can't even think about all those
email directly ending in my
main inbox...

Regarding a forum - well, talk.maemo.org is currently basically filling
the role of the main Sailfish forum and this seems to work just 
fine, so

I don't really see the need for yet another forum instance (anybody
still remembers forum.meego.com ?).



Chris


Zitat von "Jarko Vihriala" :


We're looking into splitting the discussions on SF mailing lists.
But, let's not make hasty moves and keep the technological part 
alive.


thanks, Jarko


From: devel-boun...@lists.sailfishos.org
[devel-boun...@lists.sailfishos.org] on behalf of Ville M. Vainio
[vivai...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 9:45 PM
To: Sailfish OS Developers
Subject: Re: [SailfishDevel] Acceptable Behaviour Guidelines - you
decide


Some of the discussions here have been borderline illegal;
discouraging such behavior even with absence of 'technical' moderator
tools (like you have even on barbaric environments like phpbb) is not
necessarily a bad idea.

On May 22, 2014 5:53 PM,
mailto:christopher.l...@thurweb.ch>> 
wrote:

Seconded. I could not have put it better myself.

Since the early days I have enjoyed the very open nature of this
forum where pretty much anything goes that is vaguely Jolla / Qt /
Open Source / technical.

From my recollection the number of threads that struck me as
"definitely better elsewhere" has been refreshingly small. Many of
the threads have been helpful or and or insightful.

Keep up the good work

Chris

Zitat von "David Greaves"
mailto:david.grea...@jolla.com>>:

There's been enough noise on this mailing list recently that some
people have
felt they don't want to participate.

We need to be careful about over-policing discussions but there is
such a thing
as under-policing too.

How would we (community, not Jolla) determine the line? and what
measures do we
think should be taken?

Lorn pointed to this as a useful document:
 http://www.kde.org/code-of-conduct/

FWIW I personally don't think there's anything happened recently that
I would
actually take action over. My delete key works fine and history shows
that
sometimes cries for help come in strange forms.

David/lbt

PS This thread is for generic guidelines - please keep any specific

Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[fasza2mobile]

+1

On Sat May 24 2014 21:01:25 GMT+0100 (BST), Kimmo Lindholm wrote:
> I give my vote for "Gone Fishing" Q&A site
> 
> hmm http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/sailfish-os
> 
> 
> 
> >>>
> Now since a forum is suggested, I cannot resist to propose my favourite way 
> of finding and sharing developer experience: a Q&A site (think Stack 
> Overflow). Even if there is together.jolla.com, I haven't yet seen many 
> concrete Sailfish development topics discussed there. Compared to forums and 
> mailing lists, Q&A sites have the built-in advantage of distilling the best 
> answers to be easily found instead of being buried in endless threads.
> 
> >>>
> OK, one down-side to mailing lists: there are no "Like", "Thanks", "+1" or 
> the likes of it buttons - I would really have used that now :D
> 
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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Martin Kolman]

24.5.2014 19:32, "Thomas B. Rücker":

* karma: so distracting, I prefer the simple egalitarianism /
meritocracy of mailing lists

Could be folded into a mailing list feature too, just to annoy you. Just
kidding. But knowing the Intarwebz™, someone has done that already…


IIRC, the new Mailman 3 web interface called HyperKitty[1] has this. :)

BTW, check it out, other than this gimmick the UI has reportedly many
interesting and useful features. :)

[1] https://fedorahosted.org/hyperkitty/
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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Kimmo Lindholm]

I give my vote for "Gone Fishing" Q&A site

hmm http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/sailfish-os



>>>
Now since a forum is suggested, I cannot resist to propose my favourite way of 
finding and sharing developer experience: a Q&A site (think Stack Overflow). 
Even if there is together.jolla.com, I haven't yet seen many concrete Sailfish 
development topics discussed there. Compared to forums and mailing lists, Q&A 
sites have the built-in advantage of distilling the best answers to be easily 
found instead of being buried in endless threads.

>>>
OK, one down-side to mailing lists: there are no "Like", "Thanks", "+1" or the 
likes of it buttons - I would really have used that now :D

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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Erik Lundin]

2014-05-24 12:56, christopher.l...@thurweb.ch skrev:


My suggestion is that rather than splitting into multiple mailing lists,
which does not really cure anything, you replace the mailing lists with
a forum. I agree it would be crazy to have both.


Now since a forum is suggested, I cannot resist to propose my favourite 
way of finding and sharing developer experience: a Q&A site (think Stack 
Overflow). Even if there is together.jolla.com, I haven't yet seen many 
concrete Sailfish development topics discussed there. Compared to forums 
and mailing lists, Q&A sites have the built-in advantage of distilling 
the best answers to be easily found instead of being buried in endless 
threads.


Best regards,
Erik
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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Thomas Tanghus]

On Saturday 24 May 2014 17:32 Thomas B. Rücker wrote:
> That sounds like you don't have a good grip on your mailbox. But let me
> pick apart your arguments below, one by one, just because I'm in the mood.

OK, one down-side to mailing lists: there are no "Like", "Thanks", "+1" or the 
likes of it buttons - I would really have used that now :D

-- 
Med venlig hilsen / Best Regards

Thomas Tanghus
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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Thomas B. Rücker]

Hi,

On 05/24/2014 04:34 PM, christopher.l...@thurweb.ch wrote:
> Hi Lauri
>
> That is an interesting perspective: my feeling / experience was
> exactly the opposite: the chief weakness of mailing lists is that they
> have no usability whatsoever: I get just a flat list of unorganised
> mails swamping my inbox.

That sounds like you don't have a good grip on your mailbox. But let me
pick apart your arguments below, one by one, just because I'm in the mood.


> That of course may be down to the weaknesses of the web-mail client I
> use. 

Indeed. But even there web clients usually, at the very least allow
sorting into folders and bypassing the inbox.


> I would welcome advice on "best-practice" tools for consuming mailing
> lists. I am (mostly) on OSX, sometimes on Windows and Linux. To quote
> Churchill "give us the tools and we will do the job".

I'm not going to recommend one particular MUA (Mail User Agent), that
would be like screaming Yehova at the top of my lungs.
There are clients aplenty, graphical, console, complicated, easy. Spend
an hour or two reading about mail clients and mailing lists. You'll
NEVER want to go back to forums.

In addition there are good web interfaces for reading up on mailing
lists. I use that if I'm not close to my personal MUA or not subscribed
to a list. See GMANE et al.


> From my point-of-view, plus points for usability of forums over
> mailing lists are (in no special order):
> * Stickies

That's a web-interface thing. The analogue would be a wiki page
introducing you to the mailing list, pointing out ground rules and a
link to a FAQ.


> * Sub forums
Mailing lists on mailman can have "topics", but I rarely see this used
outside lkml(?).
We are currently pondering a split to several mailing lists, that's the
other possibility.

> * Search

Most of the time I'm much faster searching either my mailing list
directory or the web archive of said list through the search engine of
my least distrust. (hint: add "site:lists.sailfishos.org" to your search)

> * Private Messages

I'm not sure if you are serious.
Did you hear about this thing called … email?


> * Edit previous posts (I could have used that today when I
> inadvertently clicked send too early)

Yes, that's an inherent limitation. Actually the only one in this mail
that I can't and won't pick apart.


> * Thread based perspective

Beat this:
http://ruecker.fi/foss/sailfish/Thunderbird_screenshot_2014-05-24T17:11:47.png
That's my Thunderbird. Other MUAs have different options. Everyone can
chose the way that fits their way of reading a list. Where as with a
forum you get ONE way or the highway.


> * Does not fill my mail file

If you are not using subdirectories, yes. Start using sub directories.
Or get an email account for mailing list usage. I see many people do that.


> * Visible metadata such as number of replies, date of most recent
> reply, number of posts etc.

Again threaded view gives you a good idea what's going on in a thread.


> Downsides of forums are:
> * yet another user/password to manage (although a forum could be
> integrated into together.jolla.com
> * yet another site to visit regularly (in addition to my mail client)

If you want a forum, TJC is already very close to it, including all the
downsides of horrible noise and impossible to find things. Even Jolla
loses track of important items there.


> * karma: so distracting, I prefer the simple egalitarianism /
> meritocracy of mailing lists

Could be folded into a mailing list feature too, just to annoy you. Just
kidding. But knowing the Intarwebz™, someone has done that already…



> Zitat von "Lauri Nurmi" :
>
>> 24.5.2014 13:56, christopher.l...@thurweb.ch kirjoitti:
>>> My suggestion is that rather than splitting into multiple mailing
>>> lists, which does not really cure anything, you replace the mailing
>>> lists with a forum. I agree it would be crazy to have both.
>>
>> -1
>>
>> Is there any forum platform whose usability is not totally terrible
>> compared to mailing lists?
>>
>> First of all, to be able to keep track of who has replied to whose
>> post, and which post, I want to see the posts as a tree. But offering
>> such a tree view seems to be very rare on forums.
>>


Still want to have a forum? ;-)


Cheers

Thomas

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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[christopher . lamb]

Hi Lauri

That is an interesting perspective: my feeling / experience was  
exactly the opposite: the chief weakness of mailing lists is that they  
have no usability whatsoever: I get just a flat list of unorganised  
mails swamping my inbox.


That of course may be down to the weaknesses of the web-mail client I  
use. I would welcome advice on "best-practice" tools for consuming  
mailing lists. I am (mostly) on OSX, sometimes on Windows and Linux.  
To quote Churchill "give us the tools and we will do the job".


From my point-of-view, plus points for usability of forums over  
mailing lists are (in no special order):

* Stickies
* Sub forums
* Search
* Private Messages
* Edit previous posts (I could have used that today when I  
inadvertently clicked send too early)

* Thread based perspective
* Does not fill my mail file
* Visible metadata such as number of replies, date of most recent  
reply, number of posts etc.


Downsides of forums are:
* yet another user/password to manage (although a forum could be  
integrated into together.jolla.com

* yet another site to visit regularly (in addition to my mail client)
* karma: so distracting, I prefer the simple egalitarianism /  
meritocracy of mailing lists


Grüsse

Chris


Zitat von "Lauri Nurmi" :


24.5.2014 13:56, christopher.l...@thurweb.ch kirjoitti:
My suggestion is that rather than splitting into multiple mailing  
lists, which does not really cure anything, you replace the mailing  
lists with a forum. I agree it would be crazy to have both.


-1

Is there any forum platform whose usability is not totally terrible  
compared to mailing lists?


First of all, to be able to keep track of who has replied to whose  
post, and which post, I want to see the posts as a tree. But  
offering such a tree view seems to be very rare on forums.



LN

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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Lauri Nurmi]

24.5.2014 13:56, christopher.l...@thurweb.ch kirjoitti:
My suggestion is that rather than splitting into multiple mailing 
lists, which does not really cure anything, you replace the mailing 
lists with a forum. I agree it would be crazy to have both.


-1

Is there any forum platform whose usability is not totally terrible 
compared to mailing lists?


First of all, to be able to keep track of who has replied to whose post, 
and which post, I want to see the posts as a tree. But offering such a 
tree view seems to be very rare on forums.



LN

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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[Mikael Hermansson]

On Saturday, May 24, 2014 12:56:01 christopher.l...@thurweb.ch wrote:
> Ignore my last - I absentmindedly clicked "Send" before writing the content!
> 
> My suggestion is that rather than splitting into multiple mailing
> lists, which does not really cure anything, you replace the mailing
> lists with a forum. I agree it would be crazy to have both.
> 
> Martin points out that I could simulate the same with rules and
> filters: but that is post-fact, so if somebody starts spamming the
> list from different threads and sock-puppets, then I need to
> continually add new rules / filters. I prefer to spend my free time
> programming Sailfish apps, not rules in my mail client!
> 
> While there is talk.maemo.org, that serves a different role: it is an
> independent forum (as opposed to one owned by Jolla); and the Sailfish
> part has not divided into more focused sub-forums yet.
> 
> Chris
> 

Agree with all especially about TMO...

-- 
I am a computer Open Source geek:

Professional experience and intrests in Qt/QML, C++, C, Python, GIT, Linux on 
embedded.


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Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[christopher . lamb]

Ignore my last - I absentmindedly clicked "Send" before writing the content!

My suggestion is that rather than splitting into multiple mailing  
lists, which does not really cure anything, you replace the mailing  
lists with a forum. I agree it would be crazy to have both.


Martin points out that I could simulate the same with rules and  
filters: but that is post-fact, so if somebody starts spamming the  
list from different threads and sock-puppets, then I need to  
continually add new rules / filters. I prefer to spend my free time  
programming Sailfish apps, not rules in my mail client!


While there is talk.maemo.org, that serves a different role: it is an  
independent forum (as opposed to one owned by Jolla); and the Sailfish  
part has not divided into more focused sub-forums yet.


Chris


Zitat von christopher.l...@thurweb.ch:


Hi Iekku

Zitat von "Iekku Pylkka" :


Ahoy,

We have been pondering the idea about forum. Truth to be told, we  
are too small company to follow and contribute to that as well. We  
are following/contributing to several IRC channels,  
together.Jolla.com, this mailing list and I'm bombing our technical  
developers with developer-c...@jolla.com questions I can't answer  
and can't find easily (below 30 minutes). And we have huge amount  
of work to do :) Yes, we could have trusted community members as a  
moderators in forum, but we would love to contribute and _read_  
those posts coming to forum.


Br,
Iekku Pylkkä

From: devel-boun...@lists.sailfishos.org  
[devel-boun...@lists.sailfishos.org] on behalf of Martin Kolman  
[martin.kol...@gmail.com]

Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 10:39 PM
To: devel@lists.sailfishos.org
Subject: Re: [SailfishDevel] Acceptable Behaviour Guidelines - you decide

23.5.2014 21:21, christopher.l...@thurweb.ch:

Hi Jarko

before we jump to splitting into multiple SF mailing lists, I wonder
has any thought been given to replacing the lists with a developer'
forum?

I fear that multiple lists would not really help - I would end up
subscribed to all of them (both those that I am very interested in,
and those that I am sometimes interested in), and thus my In-box would
be just as full as it is now.

A forum would be divided into sub-forums, and being thread oriented
(as opposed to post-oriented) I could freely choose which sub-forums
and which threads I chose to dive into, and which to ignore.

Well, roughly the same thing can (and usually is by people subscribing
to mailing list) achieved by setting up mail filters and redirecting
email to per-mailing-list folders. I can't even think about all those
email directly ending in my
main inbox...

Regarding a forum - well, talk.maemo.org is currently basically filling
the role of the main Sailfish forum and this seems to work just fine, so
I don't really see the need for yet another forum instance (anybody
still remembers forum.meego.com ?).



Chris


Zitat von "Jarko Vihriala" :


We're looking into splitting the discussions on SF mailing lists.
But, let's not make hasty moves and keep the technological part alive.

thanks, Jarko


From: devel-boun...@lists.sailfishos.org
[devel-boun...@lists.sailfishos.org] on behalf of Ville M. Vainio
[vivai...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 9:45 PM
To: Sailfish OS Developers
Subject: Re: [SailfishDevel] Acceptable Behaviour Guidelines - you
decide


Some of the discussions here have been borderline illegal;
discouraging such behavior even with absence of 'technical' moderator
tools (like you have even on barbaric environments like phpbb) is not
necessarily a bad idea.

On May 22, 2014 5:53 PM,
mailto:christopher.l...@thurweb.ch>> wrote:
Seconded. I could not have put it better myself.

Since the early days I have enjoyed the very open nature of this
forum where pretty much anything goes that is vaguely Jolla / Qt /
Open Source / technical.

From my recollection the number of threads that struck me as
"definitely better elsewhere" has been refreshingly small. Many of
the threads have been helpful or and or insightful.

Keep up the good work

Chris

Zitat von "David Greaves"
mailto:david.grea...@jolla.com>>:

There's been enough noise on this mailing list recently that some
people have
felt they don't want to participate.

We need to be careful about over-policing discussions but there is
such a thing
as under-policing too.

How would we (community, not Jolla) determine the line? and what
measures do we
think should be taken?

Lorn pointed to this as a useful document:
 http://www.kde.org/code-of-conduct/

FWIW I personally don't think there's anything happened recently that
I would
actually take action over. My delete key works fine and history shows
that
sometimes cries for help come in strange forms.

David/lbt

PS This thread is for generic guidelines - please keep any specific
issues out
of it.
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To uns

Re: [SailfishDevel] was "Acceptable Behaviour.." --> Forum

[christopher . lamb]

Hi Iekku

Zitat von "Iekku Pylkka" :


Ahoy,

We have been pondering the idea about forum. Truth to be told, we  
are too small company to follow and contribute to that as well. We  
are following/contributing to several IRC channels,  
together.Jolla.com, this mailing list and I'm bombing our technical  
developers with developer-c...@jolla.com questions I can't answer  
and can't find easily (below 30 minutes). And we have huge amount of  
work to do :) Yes, we could have trusted community members as a  
moderators in forum, but we would love to contribute and _read_  
those posts coming to forum.


Br,
Iekku Pylkkä

From: devel-boun...@lists.sailfishos.org  
[devel-boun...@lists.sailfishos.org] on behalf of Martin Kolman  
[martin.kol...@gmail.com]

Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 10:39 PM
To: devel@lists.sailfishos.org
Subject: Re: [SailfishDevel] Acceptable Behaviour Guidelines - you decide

23.5.2014 21:21, christopher.l...@thurweb.ch:

Hi Jarko

before we jump to splitting into multiple SF mailing lists, I wonder
has any thought been given to replacing the lists with a developer'
forum?

I fear that multiple lists would not really help - I would end up
subscribed to all of them (both those that I am very interested in,
and those that I am sometimes interested in), and thus my In-box would
be just as full as it is now.

A forum would be divided into sub-forums, and being thread oriented
(as opposed to post-oriented) I could freely choose which sub-forums
and which threads I chose to dive into, and which to ignore.

Well, roughly the same thing can (and usually is by people subscribing
to mailing list) achieved by setting up mail filters and redirecting
email to per-mailing-list folders. I can't even think about all those
email directly ending in my
main inbox...

Regarding a forum - well, talk.maemo.org is currently basically filling
the role of the main Sailfish forum and this seems to work just fine, so
I don't really see the need for yet another forum instance (anybody
still remembers forum.meego.com ?).



Chris


Zitat von "Jarko Vihriala" :


We're looking into splitting the discussions on SF mailing lists.
But, let's not make hasty moves and keep the technological part alive.

thanks, Jarko


From: devel-boun...@lists.sailfishos.org
[devel-boun...@lists.sailfishos.org] on behalf of Ville M. Vainio
[vivai...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 9:45 PM
To: Sailfish OS Developers
Subject: Re: [SailfishDevel] Acceptable Behaviour Guidelines - you
decide


Some of the discussions here have been borderline illegal;
discouraging such behavior even with absence of 'technical' moderator
tools (like you have even on barbaric environments like phpbb) is not
necessarily a bad idea.

On May 22, 2014 5:53 PM,
mailto:christopher.l...@thurweb.ch>> wrote:
Seconded. I could not have put it better myself.

Since the early days I have enjoyed the very open nature of this
forum where pretty much anything goes that is vaguely Jolla / Qt /
Open Source / technical.

From my recollection the number of threads that struck me as
"definitely better elsewhere" has been refreshingly small. Many of
the threads have been helpful or and or insightful.

Keep up the good work

Chris

Zitat von "David Greaves"
mailto:david.grea...@jolla.com>>:

There's been enough noise on this mailing list recently that some
people have
felt they don't want to participate.

We need to be careful about over-policing discussions but there is
such a thing
as under-policing too.

How would we (community, not Jolla) determine the line? and what
measures do we
think should be taken?

Lorn pointed to this as a useful document:
  http://www.kde.org/code-of-conduct/

FWIW I personally don't think there's anything happened recently that
I would
actually take action over. My delete key works fine and history shows
that
sometimes cries for help come in strange forms.

David/lbt

PS This thread is for generic guidelines - please keep any specific
issues out
of it.
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