[freenet-dev] (no subject)

[Daxter]

On Mar 18, 2012, at 8:04 PM, Leah Hicks wrote:
> I have done my research, although I have to admit wordpress is not perfect. 
> If it is really that big of an issue then we will simply not use it. And yes 
> I'm aware of the current implementation however it uses javascript which will 
> not run if users have javascript disabled. If someone can find a workaround 
> for that I'm golden. 

The problem with any CMS is that if/when Freenet gets a lot of publicity (e.g. 
something was leaked via Freenet) then it will undoubtedly be under attack. 
Allowing dynamic content at all is asking for trouble. I think it's best to 
keep the main site static, generated beforehand with a templating engine--my 
favorite being HAML (http://haml-lang.com).

If news is of issue, why not use something like Twitter to keep people updated 
and actually update the site itself when it's something big?
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Re: [freenet-dev] (no subject)

[Daxter]

On Mar 18, 2012, at 8:04 PM, Leah Hicks wrote:
> I have done my research, although I have to admit wordpress is not perfect. 
> If it is really that big of an issue then we will simply not use it. And yes 
> I'm aware of the current implementation however it uses javascript which will 
> not run if users have javascript disabled. If someone can find a workaround 
> for that I'm golden. 

The problem with any CMS is that if/when Freenet gets a lot of publicity (e.g. 
something was leaked via Freenet) then it will undoubtedly be under attack. 
Allowing dynamic content at all is asking for trouble. I think it's best to 
keep the main site static, generated beforehand with a templating engine--my 
favorite being HAML (http://haml-lang.com).

If news is of issue, why not use something like Twitter to keep people updated 
and actually update the site itself when it's something big?___
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[freenet-dev] Should we switch the websites to httpS only?

[Daxter]

On Mar 10, 2012, at 12:19 PM, Luke R. wrote:
> I would tend to side with the ones who said we need both. HTTPS default, HTTP 
> still available for those in need of it. The reason is because countries and 
> most definitely some wifi hotspots in my experience block HTTPS entirely. 
> Also some mobile browsers do not allow HTTPS (sadly!). 
> 
> A user may be able to use an HTTP proxy in his/her country to get access to 
> the blocked domain via HTTP (unless the http proxy also supports HTTPS? then 
> this may not be needed). In such cases MD5 hash checks would be very 
> important, as well as the non-anonymity in downloading the binary in the 
> first place could place a person at risk... but at least they would be able 
> to download it.
> 
> Regarding the HTTPS certificate errors, continued development of this FF 
> extension may prove helpful: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~perspectives/

Just thought I'd mention that cs.cmu.edu/~perspectives redirects to 
www.networknotary.org which appears to be down. A quick web search brought me 
to www.perspectives-project.org which appears to be the new site. The project 
looks very interesting, but IMO it won't make much of a difference until/unless 
it's bundled with the browser.

I agree that in lieu of HTTPS, MD5/SHA hashes would be very useful. As well, 
Any automated update tool should also download a hash and check it before using 
the update (not sure if that happens now). 
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[freenet-dev] Should we switch the websites to httpS only?

[Daxter]

On Mar 10, 2012, at 10:54 AM, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> On Saturday 10 Mar 2012 16:44:55 Daxter wrote:
>> On Mar 10, 2012, at 3:44 AM, Florent Daigniere wrote:
>>> On Fri, Mar 09, 2012 at 07:11:19PM -0600, Daxter wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I'm all for HTTPS, but do we really want to outright *remove* 
>>>> functionality from the site? Sure, HTTP isn't secure and all "modern" web 
>>>> browsers support it. However, we would be making it harder for people to 
>>>> learn about Freenet and potentially try it out. 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Why? You could still access it over HTTP... and be presented with 
>>> (transparent) redirect to the secure version.
>> 
>> I just scratched an itch and discovered that even Lynx supports HTTPS? If it 
>> really is the case that HTTPS has become so ubiquitous that users wouldn't 
>> be affected, then sure, go ahead with it.
>> 
>> HOWEVER: the question really needs to be restated. Are there any countries 
>> or ISPs that are known to disallow secure communications?
>> 
>>>> In the end I think we should do what every major website does today: 
>>>> encrypt the important data and let the entire site be accessible securely, 
>>>> but don't force it onto people.
>>>> 
>>>> -Daxter
>>> 
>>> It's very difficult to do and most websites do it wrong. You have to think 
>>> about mixed-content errors, cookie flags, ...
>>> 
>>> Sending credentials in cleartext like we do on the wikis, with no secure 
>>> alternative, is a disgrace.
>>> 
>>> Florent
>> 
>> 
>> Can you give me an example of a website that in your mind does either the 
>> mixed model or the secure-only model properly? It would be nice to compare 
>> with them.
>> 
>> Actually, the wiki supports HTTPS right now. You'll get a certificate error, 
>> but it works.
> 
> Why do you get a cert error? We have a wildcard cert!
>> 
>> While we're on the subject (as I've never bothered with HTTPS on the site 
>> until now), turns out it's rather misconfigured. Both the wiki and the main 
>> site return a certificate for emu.freenetproject.org? That address isn't 
>> accessible--what was it, and shouldn't we get this fixed?
> 
> Eh? I thought we used the wildcard cert for everything?

Nope, both are using a cert for emu.freenetproject.org. Also, the certificate 
is bound to expire on 4/27/2012 so we really should get this fixed!

[freenet-dev] Should we switch the websites to httpS only?

[Daxter]

On Mar 10, 2012, at 3:44 AM, Florent Daigniere wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 09, 2012 at 07:11:19PM -0600, Daxter wrote:
>> 
>> I'm all for HTTPS, but do we really want to outright *remove* functionality 
>> from the site? Sure, HTTP isn't secure and all "modern" web browsers support 
>> it. However, we would be making it harder for people to learn about Freenet 
>> and potentially try it out. 
>> 
> 
> Why? You could still access it over HTTP... and be presented with 
> (transparent) redirect to the secure version.

I just scratched an itch and discovered that even Lynx supports HTTPS? If it 
really is the case that HTTPS has become so ubiquitous that users wouldn't be 
affected, then sure, go ahead with it.

HOWEVER: the question really needs to be restated. Are there any countries or 
ISPs that are known to disallow secure communications?

>> In the end I think we should do what every major website does today: encrypt 
>> the important data and let the entire site be accessible securely, but don't 
>> force it onto people.
>> 
>> -Daxter
> 
> It's very difficult to do and most websites do it wrong. You have to think 
> about mixed-content errors, cookie flags, ...
> 
> Sending credentials in cleartext like we do on the wikis, with no secure 
> alternative, is a disgrace.
> 
> Florent


Can you give me an example of a website that in your mind does either the mixed 
model or the secure-only model properly? It would be nice to compare with them.

Actually, the wiki supports HTTPS right now. You'll get a certificate error, 
but it works.

While we're on the subject (as I've never bothered with HTTPS on the site until 
now), turns out it's rather misconfigured. Both the wiki and the main site 
return a certificate for emu.freenetproject.org? That address isn't 
accessible--what was it, and shouldn't we get this fixed?

-Daxter

Re: [freenet-dev] Should we switch the websites to httpS only?

[Daxter]

On Mar 10, 2012, at 12:19 PM, Luke R. wrote:
> I would tend to side with the ones who said we need both. HTTPS default, HTTP 
> still available for those in need of it. The reason is because countries and 
> most definitely some wifi hotspots in my experience block HTTPS entirely. 
> Also some mobile browsers do not allow HTTPS (sadly!). 
> 
> A user may be able to use an HTTP proxy in his/her country to get access to 
> the blocked domain via HTTP (unless the http proxy also supports HTTPS? then 
> this may not be needed). In such cases MD5 hash checks would be very 
> important, as well as the non-anonymity in downloading the binary in the 
> first place could place a person at risk... but at least they would be able 
> to download it.
> 
> Regarding the HTTPS certificate errors, continued development of this FF 
> extension may prove helpful: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~perspectives/

Just thought I'd mention that cs.cmu.edu/~perspectives redirects to 
www.networknotary.org which appears to be down. A quick web search brought me 
to www.perspectives-project.org which appears to be the new site. The project 
looks very interesting, but IMO it won't make much of a difference until/unless 
it's bundled with the browser.

I agree that in lieu of HTTPS, MD5/SHA hashes would be very useful. As well, 
Any automated update tool should also download a hash and check it before using 
the update (not sure if that happens now). ___
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Re: [freenet-dev] Should we switch the websites to httpS only?

[Daxter]

On Mar 10, 2012, at 10:54 AM, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> On Saturday 10 Mar 2012 16:44:55 Daxter wrote:
>> On Mar 10, 2012, at 3:44 AM, Florent Daigniere wrote:
>>> On Fri, Mar 09, 2012 at 07:11:19PM -0600, Daxter wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I'm all for HTTPS, but do we really want to outright *remove* 
>>>> functionality from the site? Sure, HTTP isn't secure and all "modern" web 
>>>> browsers support it. However, we would be making it harder for people to 
>>>> learn about Freenet and potentially try it out. 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Why? You could still access it over HTTP... and be presented with 
>>> (transparent) redirect to the secure version.
>> 
>> I just scratched an itch and discovered that even Lynx supports HTTPS… If it 
>> really is the case that HTTPS has become so ubiquitous that users wouldn't 
>> be affected, then sure, go ahead with it.
>> 
>> HOWEVER: the question really needs to be restated. Are there any countries 
>> or ISPs that are known to disallow secure communications?
>> 
>>>> In the end I think we should do what every major website does today: 
>>>> encrypt the important data and let the entire site be accessible securely, 
>>>> but don't force it onto people.
>>>> 
>>>> -Daxter
>>> 
>>> It's very difficult to do and most websites do it wrong. You have to think 
>>> about mixed-content errors, cookie flags, ...
>>> 
>>> Sending credentials in cleartext like we do on the wikis, with no secure 
>>> alternative, is a disgrace.
>>> 
>>> Florent
>> 
>> 
>> Can you give me an example of a website that in your mind does either the 
>> mixed model or the secure-only model properly? It would be nice to compare 
>> with them.
>> 
>> Actually, the wiki supports HTTPS right now. You'll get a certificate error, 
>> but it works.
> 
> Why do you get a cert error? We have a wildcard cert!
>> 
>> While we're on the subject (as I've never bothered with HTTPS on the site 
>> until now), turns out it's rather misconfigured. Both the wiki and the main 
>> site return a certificate for emu.freenetproject.org… That address isn't 
>> accessible--what was it, and shouldn't we get this fixed?
> 
> Eh? I thought we used the wildcard cert for everything?

Nope, both are using a cert for emu.freenetproject.org. Also, the certificate 
is bound to expire on 4/27/2012 so we really should get this fixed!

___
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Re: [freenet-dev] Should we switch the websites to httpS only?

[Daxter]

On Mar 10, 2012, at 3:44 AM, Florent Daigniere wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 09, 2012 at 07:11:19PM -0600, Daxter wrote:
>> 
>> I'm all for HTTPS, but do we really want to outright *remove* functionality 
>> from the site? Sure, HTTP isn't secure and all "modern" web browsers support 
>> it. However, we would be making it harder for people to learn about Freenet 
>> and potentially try it out. 
>> 
> 
> Why? You could still access it over HTTP... and be presented with 
> (transparent) redirect to the secure version.

I just scratched an itch and discovered that even Lynx supports HTTPS… If it 
really is the case that HTTPS has become so ubiquitous that users wouldn't be 
affected, then sure, go ahead with it.

HOWEVER: the question really needs to be restated. Are there any countries or 
ISPs that are known to disallow secure communications?

>> In the end I think we should do what every major website does today: encrypt 
>> the important data and let the entire site be accessible securely, but don't 
>> force it onto people.
>> 
>> -Daxter
> 
> It's very difficult to do and most websites do it wrong. You have to think 
> about mixed-content errors, cookie flags, ...
> 
> Sending credentials in cleartext like we do on the wikis, with no secure 
> alternative, is a disgrace.
> 
> Florent


Can you give me an example of a website that in your mind does either the mixed 
model or the secure-only model properly? It would be nice to compare with them.

Actually, the wiki supports HTTPS right now. You'll get a certificate error, 
but it works.

While we're on the subject (as I've never bothered with HTTPS on the site until 
now), turns out it's rather misconfigured. Both the wiki and the main site 
return a certificate for emu.freenetproject.org… That address isn't 
accessible--what was it, and shouldn't we get this fixed?

-Daxter
___
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[freenet-dev] Should we switch the websites to httpS only?

[Daxter]

On Mar 9, 2012, at 15:37, Evan Daniel  wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 4:21 PM, Florent Daigniere
>  
>> 
>> I was wondering, do we have any good reason not to switch the various 
>> websites to HTTPS only? (with a 301 redirect on HTTP)
> 
> I'm in favor of https only. The only real arguments against it are
> probably server cpu load. I assume that given our traffic levels,
> that's not likely to be an issue?
> 
> Evan Daniel

I'm all for HTTPS, but do we really want to outright *remove* functionality 
from the site? Sure, HTTP isn't secure and all "modern" web browsers support 
it. However, we would be making it harder for people to learn about Freenet and 
potentially try it out. 

In the end I think we should do what every major website does today: encrypt 
the important data and let the entire site be accessible securely, but don't 
force it onto people.

-Daxter

Re: [freenet-dev] Should we switch the websites to httpS only?

[Daxter]

On Mar 9, 2012, at 15:37, Evan Daniel  wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 4:21 PM, Florent Daigniere
>  
>> 
>> I was wondering, do we have any good reason not to switch the various 
>> websites to HTTPS only? (with a 301 redirect on HTTP)
> 
> I'm in favor of https only. The only real arguments against it are
> probably server cpu load. I assume that given our traffic levels,
> that's not likely to be an issue?
> 
> Evan Daniel

I'm all for HTTPS, but do we really want to outright *remove* functionality 
from the site? Sure, HTTP isn't secure and all "modern" web browsers support 
it. However, we would be making it harder for people to learn about Freenet and 
potentially try it out. 

In the end I think we should do what every major website does today: encrypt 
the important data and let the entire site be accessible securely, but don't 
force it onto people.

-Daxter
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[freenet-dev] Gun.io

[Daxter]

That's a very interesting platform indeed? but how do you decide which tasks to 
outsource?

-Daxter

On Jan 5, 2012, at 7:11 PM, Ian Clarke wrote:
> I recieved the following email from Rich Jones, creator of Gun.io.  This 
> could be a very interesting way for us to get specific tasks done?
[snip]
> Ian Clarke
> Founder, The Freenet Project
> Email: ian at freenetproject.org

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Re: [freenet-dev] Gun.io

[Daxter]

That's a very interesting platform indeed… but how do you decide which tasks to 
outsource?

-Daxter

On Jan 5, 2012, at 7:11 PM, Ian Clarke wrote:
> I recieved the following email from Rich Jones, creator of Gun.io.  This 
> could be a very interesting way for us to get specific tasks done…
[snip]
> Ian Clarke
> Founder, The Freenet Project
> Email: i...@freenetproject.org

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[freenet-dev] Can't edit new-wiki

[Daxter]

On Dec 26, 2011, at 10:32 PM, Ian Clarke wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 4:15 AM, Daxter  wrote:
>>> Definitely seems that we need to decentralize this in the short term,
>>> is anyone willing to take on these roles?
>> 
>> I've wanted to help out for a long time, and I might as well start now. I 
>> have no dev experience with Freenet so I wouldn't be the right person for a 
>> number of those jobs, but surely there's something I could take on. At any 
>> rate, just wanted to say that I'm willing to help.
> 
> Thanks Daxter!  So what can you do? :-)

I can? learn how to do things? I only have a classroom-level understanding of 
Java at this point, so there's certainly a lot for me to relearn if I'm to 
contribute to the codebase. As for real experience, I've worked both on Ruby on 
Rails and PHP web applications, as well as their database backends.

The biggest barrier to entry is the (AFAIK) lack of any updated guide of how to 
get involved, as well as how everything's currently set up. I didn't want to 
bother people with "noob" questions, so I've been lurking instead.

One thing I personally would like to do is provide a Mac-style install bundle 
for OSX users, so that the install process looks more professional from the 
perspective of a Mac user. Once the bundle itself is set up, it should be very 
easy to script any changes to the installer for future updates.

[freenet-dev] Can't edit new-wiki

[Daxter]

On Dec 26, 2011, at 9:55 PM, Ian Clarke wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 11:54 PM, Matthew Toseland
>  wrote:
>> Look people, I do not have time at the moment to be:
> 
> Definitely seems that we need to decentralize this in the short term,
> is anyone willing to take on these roles?

I've wanted to help out for a long time, and I might as well start now. I have 
no dev experience with Freenet so I wouldn't be the right person for a number 
of those jobs, but surely there's something I could take on. At any rate, just 
wanted to say that I'm willing to help.

-Daxter

Re: [freenet-dev] Can't edit new-wiki

[Daxter]

On Dec 26, 2011, at 10:32 PM, Ian Clarke wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 4:15 AM, Daxter  wrote:
>>> Definitely seems that we need to decentralize this in the short term,
>>> is anyone willing to take on these roles?
>> 
>> I've wanted to help out for a long time, and I might as well start now. I 
>> have no dev experience with Freenet so I wouldn't be the right person for a 
>> number of those jobs, but surely there's something I could take on. At any 
>> rate, just wanted to say that I'm willing to help.
> 
> Thanks Daxter!  So what can you do? :-)

I can… learn how to do things? I only have a classroom-level understanding of 
Java at this point, so there's certainly a lot for me to relearn if I'm to 
contribute to the codebase. As for real experience, I've worked both on Ruby on 
Rails and PHP web applications, as well as their database backends.

The biggest barrier to entry is the (AFAIK) lack of any updated guide of how to 
get involved, as well as how everything's currently set up. I didn't want to 
bother people with "noob" questions, so I've been lurking instead.

One thing I personally would like to do is provide a Mac-style install bundle 
for OSX users, so that the install process looks more professional from the 
perspective of a Mac user. Once the bundle itself is set up, it should be very 
easy to script any changes to the installer for future updates.
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Re: [freenet-dev] Can't edit new-wiki

[Daxter]

On Dec 26, 2011, at 9:55 PM, Ian Clarke wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 11:54 PM, Matthew Toseland
>  wrote:
>> Look people, I do not have time at the moment to be:
> 
> Definitely seems that we need to decentralize this in the short term,
> is anyone willing to take on these roles?

I've wanted to help out for a long time, and I might as well start now. I have 
no dev experience with Freenet so I wouldn't be the right person for a number 
of those jobs, but surely there's something I could take on. At any rate, just 
wanted to say that I'm willing to help.

-Daxter
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[freenet-dev] Accessibility: Why we need to support non-javascript text browsers was Fwd: Re: problems

[Daxter]

> On Fri, 25 Mar 2011, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> 
>> Suggestions for text-based CAPTCHAs that computers cannot easily crack would 
>> be welcome.

Just a conceptual idea here--why not take CAPTCHA images and generate a Unicode 
representation? For each 'region' of the CAPTCHA image there would be thousands 
of possible characters that would suffice. If a random choice were made for 
such characters, such a process would produce a more secure text-based CAPTCHA 
as only the human eye would be able to easily understand the hidden message.

Re: [freenet-dev] Accessibility: Why we need to support non-javascript text browsers was Fwd: Re: problems

[Daxter]

> On Fri, 25 Mar 2011, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> 
>> Suggestions for text-based CAPTCHAs that computers cannot easily crack would 
>> be welcome.

Just a conceptual idea here--why not take CAPTCHA images and generate a Unicode 
representation? For each 'region' of the CAPTCHA image there would be thousands 
of possible characters that would suffice. If a random choice were made for 
such characters, such a process would produce a more secure text-based CAPTCHA 
as only the human eye would be able to easily understand the hidden message.
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[freenet-dev] Moving to Java 1.6???

[Daxter]

On Feb 16, 2011, at 6:52 AM, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> On Wednesday 16 Feb 2011 04:07:00 Daxter wrote:
>> On Feb 15, 2011, at 9:34 PM, Ian Clarke wrote:
>> 
>>> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Matthew Toseland >> amphibian.dyndns.org> wrote:
>>> Does OS/X (at least the common, maintained versions) have good Java 6 
>>> support as of this moment?
>>> 
>>> Yes, we should do it.
>> 
>> The most recent version of OS X is 10.6, which ships with Java 6 
>> preinstalled.
>> 
>> 10.5 (which older machines can run) ships with Java 5, but can be upgraded 
>> to Java 6. The problem is that even though the standard software updates 
>> install Java 6, it isn't used by default. Here's a guide for users to change 
>> that:http://gephi.org/users/install-java-6-mac-os-x-leopard/
>> 
>> Would users running the updated version of Freenet on 10.5 actually need to 
>> change the default version of Java running, or will Freenet automatically 
>> choose the right one?
> 
> Okay, so there is a problem. Is it sufficient simply to document the fact 
> that we need Java 1.6 on the download page? (Which most users won't see) 
> IzPack or JWS should tell the user...

Well, not necessarily. Whether it's a problem really depends on how Java 
programs decide which version to use, or really if they get the choice at all. 
If they do, the code should be fairly simple and all the user would have to do 
is make sure that they have installed all the updates from Apple.
--
And actually after writing this I thought "why not try it out on Java Web 
Start?" and so discovered that it's quite easy to require Java 6.

I simply opened "freenet.jnlp" in a text editor and changed the line

to


In an attempt to then run the installer, I received this error: "The 
application has requested a version of JRE (version 1.7.0+) that is not 
installed."
--
Now that that's out of the way, we'll still have an issue if we don't tell Mac 
users ahead of time that if they aren't using 10.6 or greater, the'll need to 
(1) at least be using 10.5 and (2) actually install all of official software 
updates from Apple.

Re: [freenet-dev] Moving to Java 1.6???

[Daxter]

On Feb 16, 2011, at 6:52 AM, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> On Wednesday 16 Feb 2011 04:07:00 Daxter wrote:
>> On Feb 15, 2011, at 9:34 PM, Ian Clarke wrote:
>> 
>>> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Matthew Toseland 
>>>  wrote:
>>> Does OS/X (at least the common, maintained versions) have good Java 6 
>>> support as of this moment?
>>> 
>>> Yes, we should do it.
>> 
>> The most recent version of OS X is 10.6, which ships with Java 6 
>> preinstalled.
>> 
>> 10.5 (which older machines can run) ships with Java 5, but can be upgraded 
>> to Java 6. The problem is that even though the standard software updates 
>> install Java 6, it isn't used by default. Here's a guide for users to change 
>> that:http://gephi.org/users/install-java-6-mac-os-x-leopard/
>> 
>> Would users running the updated version of Freenet on 10.5 actually need to 
>> change the default version of Java running, or will Freenet automatically 
>> choose the right one?
> 
> Okay, so there is a problem. Is it sufficient simply to document the fact 
> that we need Java 1.6 on the download page? (Which most users won't see) 
> IzPack or JWS should tell the user...

Well, not necessarily. Whether it's a problem really depends on how Java 
programs decide which version to use, or really if they get the choice at all. 
If they do, the code should be fairly simple and all the user would have to do 
is make sure that they have installed all the updates from Apple.
--
And actually after writing this I thought "why not try it out on Java Web 
Start?" and so discovered that it's quite easy to require Java 6.

I simply opened "freenet.jnlp" in a text editor and changed the line

to


In an attempt to then run the installer, I received this error: "The 
application has requested a version of JRE (version 1.7.0+) that is not 
installed."
--
Now that that's out of the way, we'll still have an issue if we don't tell Mac 
users ahead of time that if they aren't using 10.6 or greater, the'll need to 
(1) at least be using 10.5 and (2) actually install all of official software 
updates from Apple.
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[freenet-dev] Moving to Java 1.6???

[Daxter]

On Feb 15, 2011, at 9:34 PM, Ian Clarke wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Matthew Toseland  amphibian.dyndns.org> wrote:
> Does OS/X (at least the common, maintained versions) have good Java 6 support 
> as of this moment?
> 
> Yes, we should do it.

The most recent version of OS X is 10.6, which ships with Java 6 preinstalled.

10.5 (which older machines can run) ships with Java 5, but can be upgraded to 
Java 6. The problem is that even though the standard software updates install 
Java 6, it isn't used by default. Here's a guide for users to change that: 
http://gephi.org/users/install-java-6-mac-os-x-leopard/

Would users running the updated version of Freenet on 10.5 actually need to 
change the default version of Java running, or will Freenet automatically 
choose the right one?

> Ian. 
> 
> -- 
> Ian Clarke
> CEO, SenseArray
> Email: ian at sensearray.com
> Ph: +1 512 422 3588

-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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Re: [freenet-dev] Moving to Java 1.6???

[Daxter]

On Feb 15, 2011, at 9:34 PM, Ian Clarke wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Matthew Toseland  
> wrote:
> Does OS/X (at least the common, maintained versions) have good Java 6 support 
> as of this moment?
> 
> Yes, we should do it.

The most recent version of OS X is 10.6, which ships with Java 6 preinstalled.

10.5 (which older machines can run) ships with Java 5, but can be upgraded to 
Java 6. The problem is that even though the standard software updates install 
Java 6, it isn't used by default. Here's a guide for users to change that: 
http://gephi.org/users/install-java-6-mac-os-x-leopard/

Would users running the updated version of Freenet on 10.5 actually need to 
change the default version of Java running, or will Freenet automatically 
choose the right one?

> Ian. 
> 
> -- 
> Ian Clarke
> CEO, SenseArray
> Email: i...@sensearray.com
> Ph: +1 512 422 3588

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[freenet-dev] Use cases for freenet

[Daxter]

On Jan 15, 2011, at 1:50 PM, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> On Thursday 13 January 2011 19:36:57 Daxter wrote:
>> I have a few questions concerning this set-up that I hope you all can help 
>> answer.
>> 
>> 1.What operating systems support guest accounts, which give temporary, 
>> limited access to a computer (and delete the user afterwards)? What might be 
>> the best one to run for always-on cafe computers?
>> 
>> 2. Wouldn't it be best for the ISP-connecting nodes to change "Relay opennet 
>> noderefs through darknet peers?" to false? Users of the cafe wireless would 
>> have no access to the internet, so they would be uselessly sending out 
>> opennet connection requests. At the same time, there's a chance that the 
>> ISP-connecting nodes (assuming there are more than 1) might connect to each 
>> other via their ISP connection, thus pointlessly wasting bandwidth.
>> 
>> 3. What dangers would their be to setting "Write local and nearby requests 
>> to the datastore?" to true on nodes not connected to the internet (both cafe 
>> and personal computers in the community)? There would be an obvious speed 
>> increase with the setting set to true, so I wanted to fully understand the 
>> dangers for this kind of set-up.
>> 
>> 4. Is there any way to prevent guest users of cafe machines from changing 
>> Freenet preferences?
>> 
>> 5. How could one set up a wifi extension that doesn't disrupt the LAN 
>> IP-address distribution (two users with 10.0.1.6)?
>> 
>> 6. Are there any potential legal allegations for hosting file refs on a 
>> local website that loads automatically when connected to an unsecured wifi 
>> network (let's assume that some of the training videos shared have 
>> copyrights)?
> 
> I will keep on saying this for as long as people don't get the message:
> 
> I was going to give a detailed answer to your fascinating posts, but we 
> cannot support anyone whom we have reasonable grounds to believe is using 
> Freenet for copyright infringement or is likely to do so, as per Grokster vs 
> MGM, and as per the EFF's legal advice to p2p devs.
> 
> Convince me that you're not going to use Freenet to violate US/UK copyright 
> law or I will ban you from the Freenet mailing lists.

Note taken. Instead of attempting to help users find ways around copyright law 
we/I should leave such issues up to those who are asking for help, while all 
the while explain that the best solution is to not "steal" videos (or any other 
media), but to create them.

I've been reading these mailing lists for about 6 months now, and I don't 
recall copyright infringement coming up during that time. Either way, I'll do 
my best to better remember that Freenet is more about sharing knowledge that 
needs to be shared than it is about skirting the law.

Back to the original topic, please do give us your insight on this intriguing 
challenge. I only have a conceptual understanding of Freenet, not a technical 
one, but it had been a week since Alex first started this thread and yet no one 
had replied so I thought it important to help in whatever ways I could.

Re: [freenet-dev] Use cases for freenet

[Daxter]

On Jan 15, 2011, at 1:50 PM, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> On Thursday 13 January 2011 19:36:57 Daxter wrote:
>> I have a few questions concerning this set-up that I hope you all can help 
>> answer.
>> 
>> 1.What operating systems support guest accounts, which give temporary, 
>> limited access to a computer (and delete the user afterwards)? What might be 
>> the best one to run for always-on cafe computers?
>> 
>> 2. Wouldn't it be best for the ISP-connecting nodes to change "Relay opennet 
>> noderefs through darknet peers?" to false? Users of the cafe wireless would 
>> have no access to the internet, so they would be uselessly sending out 
>> opennet connection requests. At the same time, there's a chance that the 
>> ISP-connecting nodes (assuming there are more than 1) might connect to each 
>> other via their ISP connection, thus pointlessly wasting bandwidth.
>> 
>> 3. What dangers would their be to setting "Write local and nearby requests 
>> to the datastore?" to true on nodes not connected to the internet (both cafe 
>> and personal computers in the community)? There would be an obvious speed 
>> increase with the setting set to true, so I wanted to fully understand the 
>> dangers for this kind of set-up.
>> 
>> 4. Is there any way to prevent guest users of cafe machines from changing 
>> Freenet preferences?
>> 
>> 5. How could one set up a wifi extension that doesn't disrupt the LAN 
>> IP-address distribution (two users with 10.0.1.6)?
>> 
>> 6. Are there any potential legal allegations for hosting file refs on a 
>> local website that loads automatically when connected to an unsecured wifi 
>> network (let's assume that some of the training videos shared have 
>> copyrights)?
> 
> I will keep on saying this for as long as people don't get the message:
> 
> I was going to give a detailed answer to your fascinating posts, but we 
> cannot support anyone whom we have reasonable grounds to believe is using 
> Freenet for copyright infringement or is likely to do so, as per Grokster vs 
> MGM, and as per the EFF's legal advice to p2p devs.
> 
> Convince me that you're not going to use Freenet to violate US/UK copyright 
> law or I will ban you from the Freenet mailing lists.

Note taken. Instead of attempting to help users find ways around copyright law 
we/I should leave such issues up to those who are asking for help, while all 
the while explain that the best solution is to not "steal" videos (or any other 
media), but to create them.

I've been reading these mailing lists for about 6 months now, and I don't 
recall copyright infringement coming up during that time. Either way, I'll do 
my best to better remember that Freenet is more about sharing knowledge that 
needs to be shared than it is about skirting the law.

Back to the original topic, please do give us your insight on this intriguing 
challenge. I only have a conceptual understanding of Freenet, not a technical 
one, but it had been a week since Alex first started this thread and yet no one 
had replied so I thought it important to help in whatever ways I could.
___
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[freenet-dev] Use cases for freenet

[Daxter]

First of all, I neglected to attach the links referenced by my first post.
1: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1314564
2: http://www.gargoyle-router.com/
3: http://www.ledge.co.za/software/squint/squish/


On Jan 13, 2011, at 11:32 PM, Volodya wrote:

>> 2. Wouldn't it be best for the ISP-connecting nodes to change "Relay opennet
>> noderefs through darknet peers?" to false? Users of the cafe wireless would
>> have no access to the internet, so they would be uselessly sending out
>> opennet connection requests. At the same time, there's a chance that the
>> ISP-connecting nodes (assuming there are more than 1) might connect to each
>> other via their ISP connection, thus pointlessly wasting bandwidth.
> 
> You would not have a connection to opennet at all, thus you would have no
> opennet refs to route. In the situation described it can easily be turned off.

I understand that the majority of nodes won't have access to opennet. It just 
seems to me that mixing a few (probably opennet-connecting) ISP-connecting 
nodes would create some weirdness (see above). Has anything like this ever been 
implemented?

>> 3. What dangers would their be to setting "Write local and nearby requests to
>> the datastore?" to true on nodes not connected to the internet (both cafe and
>> personal computers in the community)? There would be an obvious speed
>> increase with the setting set to true, so I wanted to fully understand the
>> dangers for this kind of set-up.
> 
> It would be very easy to see what somebody has downloaded on a particular
> machine by examining the datastore. For example: You sit at the machine and
> download a large file, then i sit at it and start downloading and notice that
> the download flies (it loads from the datastore not from other nodes), i can
> then conclude that you (or somebody before you) have downloaded it. In the
> situation where somebody may have access to your datastore it is essential to
> never cache local requests.

Okay, but assuming these cafe machines are sufficiently locked down, the end 
user would have no way to determine whether the file is or is not locally 
cached. With so many Freenet nodes in the same LAN, any file would already be 
very well distributed and you could download from something like the same speed 
that you could "download" from the machine's local cache.

> 
>> 6. Are there any potential legal allegations for hosting file refs on a local
>> website that loads automatically when connected to an unsecured wifi network
>> (let's assume that some of the training videos shared have copyrights)? 
> 
> This is impossible to answer without you giving the country. Let's look at
> Russia for example, here it is technically illegal, but in most places is 
> almost
> as legal as marijuana in holland. While there are laws against it, police is
> more interested in taking bribes from foreigners with no papers or beating up
> people. I know of several ISPs which host SHA keys of all the films, tv shows,
> etc. for download from their private DC++ network.

Hmmm, I see your point. Then what would be a better solution for Alex? He 
want's the file refs to be easily accessible to the community without wasting 
ISP bandwidth (thus without publishing the keys for the rest of Freenet).

>   - Volodya
> 
> 
> - -- 
> http://freedom.libsyn.com/ Echo of Freedom, Radical Podcast
> 
> "None of us are free until all of us are free."~ Mihail Bakunin

Re: [freenet-dev] Use cases for freenet

[Daxter]

First of all, I neglected to attach the links referenced by my first post.
1: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1314564
2: http://www.gargoyle-router.com/
3: http://www.ledge.co.za/software/squint/squish/


On Jan 13, 2011, at 11:32 PM, Volodya wrote:

>> 2. Wouldn't it be best for the ISP-connecting nodes to change "Relay opennet
>> noderefs through darknet peers?" to false? Users of the cafe wireless would
>> have no access to the internet, so they would be uselessly sending out
>> opennet connection requests. At the same time, there's a chance that the
>> ISP-connecting nodes (assuming there are more than 1) might connect to each
>> other via their ISP connection, thus pointlessly wasting bandwidth.
> 
> You would not have a connection to opennet at all, thus you would have no
> opennet refs to route. In the situation described it can easily be turned off.

I understand that the majority of nodes won't have access to opennet. It just 
seems to me that mixing a few (probably opennet-connecting) ISP-connecting 
nodes would create some weirdness (see above). Has anything like this ever been 
implemented?

>> 3. What dangers would their be to setting "Write local and nearby requests to
>> the datastore?" to true on nodes not connected to the internet (both cafe and
>> personal computers in the community)? There would be an obvious speed
>> increase with the setting set to true, so I wanted to fully understand the
>> dangers for this kind of set-up.
> 
> It would be very easy to see what somebody has downloaded on a particular
> machine by examining the datastore. For example: You sit at the machine and
> download a large file, then i sit at it and start downloading and notice that
> the download flies (it loads from the datastore not from other nodes), i can
> then conclude that you (or somebody before you) have downloaded it. In the
> situation where somebody may have access to your datastore it is essential to
> never cache local requests.

Okay, but assuming these cafe machines are sufficiently locked down, the end 
user would have no way to determine whether the file is or is not locally 
cached. With so many Freenet nodes in the same LAN, any file would already be 
very well distributed and you could download from something like the same speed 
that you could "download" from the machine's local cache.

> 
>> 6. Are there any potential legal allegations for hosting file refs on a local
>> website that loads automatically when connected to an unsecured wifi network
>> (let's assume that some of the training videos shared have copyrights)? 
> 
> This is impossible to answer without you giving the country. Let's look at
> Russia for example, here it is technically illegal, but in most places is 
> almost
> as legal as marijuana in holland. While there are laws against it, police is
> more interested in taking bribes from foreigners with no papers or beating up
> people. I know of several ISPs which host SHA keys of all the films, tv shows,
> etc. for download from their private DC++ network.

Hmmm, I see your point. Then what would be a better solution for Alex? He 
want's the file refs to be easily accessible to the community without wasting 
ISP bandwidth (thus without publishing the keys for the rest of Freenet).

>   - Volodya
> 
> 
> - -- 
> http://freedom.libsyn.com/ Echo of Freedom, Radical Podcast
> 
> "None of us are free until all of us are free."~ Mihail Bakunin

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[freenet-dev] Use cases for freenet

[Daxter]

I have a few questions concerning this set-up that I hope you all can help 
answer.

1.What operating systems support guest accounts, which give temporary, limited 
access to a computer (and delete the user afterwards)? What might be the best 
one to run for always-on cafe computers?

2. Wouldn't it be best for the ISP-connecting nodes to change "Relay opennet 
noderefs through darknet peers?" to false? Users of the cafe wireless would 
have no access to the internet, so they would be uselessly sending out opennet 
connection requests. At the same time, there's a chance that the ISP-connecting 
nodes (assuming there are more than 1) might connect to each other via their 
ISP connection, thus pointlessly wasting bandwidth.

3. What dangers would their be to setting "Write local and nearby requests to 
the datastore?" to true on nodes not connected to the internet (both cafe and 
personal computers in the community)? There would be an obvious speed increase 
with the setting set to true, so I wanted to fully understand the dangers for 
this kind of set-up.

4. Is there any way to prevent guest users of cafe machines from changing 
Freenet preferences?

5. How could one set up a wifi extension that doesn't disrupt the LAN 
IP-address distribution (two users with 10.0.1.6)?

6. Are there any potential legal allegations for hosting file refs on a local 
website that loads automatically when connected to an unsecured wifi network 
(let's assume that some of the training videos shared have copyrights)?

[freenet-dev] Use cases for freenet

[Daxter]

On Jan 7, 2011, at 7:17 AM, Alex Rollin wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I'd like to share my uses cases for a Darknet in a neighborhood
> wireless network.  Please feel free to tear them apart.  I'm wondering
> where and how Freenet can be "the filesharing program" of choice,
> here, and I realize some cases may be missing some necessary detail.
> Perhaps this group can help me to understand where I need to do more
> work.  Thank you for your time and for creating such an awesome and
> needed program!

I just wanted to say thank you for trying to set something like this up. If I 
was in that situation I would love to have access to this awesome community 
darknet. It's kind of like a speakeasy; except instead of alcohol, it's 
knowledge (my personal drug).

Please note that I don't have all the answers. For one subject I linked to some 
software which might help out, but that I have no experience with. For many 
others I'll be posting a second message after this one filled with questions 
that hopefully someone else in the community can answer.

> Summary
> 
> In Indonesia bandwidth to outside the country is very expensive.  It
> is much simpler to construct a network that allows users to share
> files within a small-world local area network.  Our goal is to
> preserve anonymity and to increase access to education materials
> through trusted individuals over a wifi network.
> 
> Nouns
> 
> These use cases revolve around these objects:
> Trainee - the trainee is a computer user who is assumed to have
> minimal computer savvy.  They are engaged in training to learn more
> about computers!
> Trainer - the trainer is loading traning videos to the network along
> with support information
> Cafe Operator - this person controls the hardware and configuration of
> several computers.  Users of the computers are anonymous.
> Training Site - an html file with descriptions of and links to Video
> files and support files like PDFs and additional sites with exercises.
> Training Video - the distribution of video is a key to this system.
> Downloading copies of the large video files from other countries is
> not practical in our example.
> Wifi Network - this network is NOT connected to the internet; it only
> connects users to each other.
> File sharing program - should allow for maximum anonymity.  Only
> connect with known friends in the network.  No sharing of personal
> information by default.  Best if it can be configured with default
> settings for maximum protection.
> 
> Objectives
> 
> Plausible deniability - any one person should not know what file/s are
> stored on a computer.

That's how it should be. And if guest accounts are set up to auto-delete it 
protects the cafe owner as well.

> Ease of use - if given the name of a friend, the SSID of the network,
> and the name of the fliesharing client the user should be able to
> setup the program with maximum security
> Speed of access - even large video files should be relatively
> accessible.  The wait for a 1GB download should be less than 1 hour.
> Run in the background - the file sharing program should be running in
> the background unobtrusively so as to speed packages through the
> network.  Ideally the program could be configured to make connections
> through a "preferred" network connection to 'stop' any connections
> being made over an ISP network.

Whether or not the file in question was uploaded by a Trainer or was taken from 
the outside internet, it will naturally propagate to most/all of the nodes in 
your Darknet. Assuming there is enough Freenet cache space in your Darknet, and 
that files are accessed somewhat often, they should last for a very long time 
and would maintain fast download speeds. Note: the more nodes that have a copy 
of a file, the faster the download will be for new nodes. Cafe nodes would be 
particularly useful in a community Darknet, as they would be used by multiple 
people requesting the same files. Thus, the downloads would be near 
instantaneous for regularly accessed files.

If an ISP node owner wants a particular file or Freesite easily available to 
community members, they will want to access it themselves ahead of time so that 
their node has cached it in advance so that community members have rapid access.

One very important issue will be bandwidth usage over ISP-connected nodes. 
Everyone else in the network depends on them for access to the "outside world." 
You cannot expect every Trainee to respect that they shouldn't try downloading 
huge files from outside your Darknet, so it would be absolutely necessary to 
protect any volunteers (that are essentially donating their ISP-bandwidth) from 
overage charges. I found some useful information here[1]. ISP-connected nodes 
can limit their data usage either by uploading custom firmware such as 
Gargoyle[2] to their router or by running something Squish[3] on their node. If 
going the Squish route, one would want to limit ethernet-based data usage 
(ISP), but not wifi-based (Da

Re: [freenet-dev] Use cases for freenet

[Daxter]

I have a few questions concerning this set-up that I hope you all can help 
answer.

1.What operating systems support guest accounts, which give temporary, limited 
access to a computer (and delete the user afterwards)? What might be the best 
one to run for always-on cafe computers?

2. Wouldn't it be best for the ISP-connecting nodes to change "Relay opennet 
noderefs through darknet peers?" to false? Users of the cafe wireless would 
have no access to the internet, so they would be uselessly sending out opennet 
connection requests. At the same time, there's a chance that the ISP-connecting 
nodes (assuming there are more than 1) might connect to each other via their 
ISP connection, thus pointlessly wasting bandwidth.

3. What dangers would their be to setting "Write local and nearby requests to 
the datastore?" to true on nodes not connected to the internet (both cafe and 
personal computers in the community)? There would be an obvious speed increase 
with the setting set to true, so I wanted to fully understand the dangers for 
this kind of set-up.

4. Is there any way to prevent guest users of cafe machines from changing 
Freenet preferences?

5. How could one set up a wifi extension that doesn't disrupt the LAN 
IP-address distribution (two users with 10.0.1.6)?

6. Are there any potential legal allegations for hosting file refs on a local 
website that loads automatically when connected to an unsecured wifi network 
(let's assume that some of the training videos shared have copyrights)?
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Re: [freenet-dev] Use cases for freenet

[Daxter]

On Jan 7, 2011, at 7:17 AM, Alex Rollin wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I'd like to share my uses cases for a Darknet in a neighborhood
> wireless network.  Please feel free to tear them apart.  I'm wondering
> where and how Freenet can be "the filesharing program" of choice,
> here, and I realize some cases may be missing some necessary detail.
> Perhaps this group can help me to understand where I need to do more
> work.  Thank you for your time and for creating such an awesome and
> needed program!

I just wanted to say thank you for trying to set something like this up. If I 
was in that situation I would love to have access to this awesome community 
darknet. It's kind of like a speakeasy; except instead of alcohol, it's 
knowledge (my personal drug).

Please note that I don't have all the answers. For one subject I linked to some 
software which might help out, but that I have no experience with. For many 
others I'll be posting a second message after this one filled with questions 
that hopefully someone else in the community can answer.

> Summary
> 
> In Indonesia bandwidth to outside the country is very expensive.  It
> is much simpler to construct a network that allows users to share
> files within a small-world local area network.  Our goal is to
> preserve anonymity and to increase access to education materials
> through trusted individuals over a wifi network.
> 
> Nouns
> 
> These use cases revolve around these objects:
> Trainee - the trainee is a computer user who is assumed to have
> minimal computer savvy.  They are engaged in training to learn more
> about computers!
> Trainer - the trainer is loading traning videos to the network along
> with support information
> Cafe Operator - this person controls the hardware and configuration of
> several computers.  Users of the computers are anonymous.
> Training Site - an html file with descriptions of and links to Video
> files and support files like PDFs and additional sites with exercises.
> Training Video - the distribution of video is a key to this system.
> Downloading copies of the large video files from other countries is
> not practical in our example.
> Wifi Network - this network is NOT connected to the internet; it only
> connects users to each other.
> File sharing program - should allow for maximum anonymity.  Only
> connect with known friends in the network.  No sharing of personal
> information by default.  Best if it can be configured with default
> settings for maximum protection.
> 
> Objectives
> 
> Plausible deniability - any one person should not know what file/s are
> stored on a computer.

That's how it should be. And if guest accounts are set up to auto-delete it 
protects the cafe owner as well.

> Ease of use - if given the name of a friend, the SSID of the network,
> and the name of the fliesharing client the user should be able to
> setup the program with maximum security
> Speed of access - even large video files should be relatively
> accessible.  The wait for a 1GB download should be less than 1 hour.
> Run in the background - the file sharing program should be running in
> the background unobtrusively so as to speed packages through the
> network.  Ideally the program could be configured to make connections
> through a "preferred" network connection to 'stop' any connections
> being made over an ISP network.

Whether or not the file in question was uploaded by a Trainer or was taken from 
the outside internet, it will naturally propagate to most/all of the nodes in 
your Darknet. Assuming there is enough Freenet cache space in your Darknet, and 
that files are accessed somewhat often, they should last for a very long time 
and would maintain fast download speeds. Note: the more nodes that have a copy 
of a file, the faster the download will be for new nodes. Cafe nodes would be 
particularly useful in a community Darknet, as they would be used by multiple 
people requesting the same files. Thus, the downloads would be near 
instantaneous for regularly accessed files.

If an ISP node owner wants a particular file or Freesite easily available to 
community members, they will want to access it themselves ahead of time so that 
their node has cached it in advance so that community members have rapid access.

One very important issue will be bandwidth usage over ISP-connected nodes. 
Everyone else in the network depends on them for access to the "outside world." 
You cannot expect every Trainee to respect that they shouldn't try downloading 
huge files from outside your Darknet, so it would be absolutely necessary to 
protect any volunteers (that are essentially donating their ISP-bandwidth) from 
overage charges. I found some useful information here[1]. ISP-connected nodes 
can limit their data usage either by uploading custom firmware such as 
Gargoyle[2] to their router or by running something Squish[3] on their node. If 
going the Squish route, one would want to limit ethernet-based data usage 
(ISP), but not wifi-based (Da

[freenet-dev] What installing Freenet could be like

[Daxter]

On Jan 13, 2011, at 9:50 AM, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> On Wednesday 12 January 2011 00:05:08 Ian Clarke wrote:
>> http://draketo.de/light/english/vision-for-a-social-freenet
>> 
>> An interesting blog entry about what the experience of installing Freenet
>> could (and maybe should) be like.  This kind of thinking is very useful, we
>> should always be imagining what the ideal Freenet installation and usage
>> experience should be, and then asking why it isn't currently that easy.
> 
> It's a lot of text.

Has anyone considered giving new users the option to watch a video explaining 
everything? Of course that's something that wouldn't be feasible until the 
framework has largely stabilized (beta or release candidate). I think it would 
be much easier for people to understand if the broad concepts are expressed 
through audio and video. Such an implementation, though quite far off, would 
ensure that new users both absorb /and/ understand the important points.

Some downsides would be:
* Video is limited by the language spoken. Subtitles might work though.
* Unless we happen to have a professional A/V volunteer, such a project would 
either be prohibitively expensive or low quality.
* The video could only speak in broad strokes so that it doesn't risk becoming 
quickly outdated by new revisions to Freenet.

If the circumstances are right, such a video would be a significant boon to 
efforts to grow the user base.

--

Even though it's a lot of text, I like the direction. It brought back my 
personal dreams of a truly person-to-person network. I'm interested in Freenet 
because I want to help form the future internet. I want coming generations to 
have access to the world's history, news, philosophy, science... everything?no 
matter the restrictions under which they live. As George Orwell said: "He who 
controls the present, controls the past. He who controls the past, controls the 
future." For one to be truly free, no one no one may be allowed to control his 
access to knowledge.

If not a video, there must be some way to implement some of the ideas from this 
blog post.

Re: [freenet-dev] What installing Freenet could be like

[Daxter]

On Jan 13, 2011, at 9:50 AM, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> On Wednesday 12 January 2011 00:05:08 Ian Clarke wrote:
>> http://draketo.de/light/english/vision-for-a-social-freenet
>> 
>> An interesting blog entry about what the experience of installing Freenet
>> could (and maybe should) be like.  This kind of thinking is very useful, we
>> should always be imagining what the ideal Freenet installation and usage
>> experience should be, and then asking why it isn't currently that easy.
> 
> It's a lot of text.

Has anyone considered giving new users the option to watch a video explaining 
everything? Of course that's something that wouldn't be feasible until the 
framework has largely stabilized (beta or release candidate). I think it would 
be much easier for people to understand if the broad concepts are expressed 
through audio and video. Such an implementation, though quite far off, would 
ensure that new users both absorb /and/ understand the important points.

Some downsides would be:
* Video is limited by the language spoken. Subtitles might work though.
* Unless we happen to have a professional A/V volunteer, such a project would 
either be prohibitively expensive or low quality.
* The video could only speak in broad strokes so that it doesn't risk becoming 
quickly outdated by new revisions to Freenet.

If the circumstances are right, such a video would be a significant boon to 
efforts to grow the user base.

--

Even though it's a lot of text, I like the direction. It brought back my 
personal dreams of a truly person-to-person network. I'm interested in Freenet 
because I want to help form the future internet. I want coming generations to 
have access to the world's history, news, philosophy, science... everything–no 
matter the restrictions under which they live. As George Orwell said: "He who 
controls the present, controls the past. He who controls the past, controls the 
future." For one to be truly free, no one no one may be allowed to control his 
access to knowledge.

If not a video, there must be some way to implement some of the ideas from this 
blog post.
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[freenet-dev] Seednodes: Removing me and need more!

[Daxter]

I second this. I'm more than willing to help out, but could you give us some 
more information about the particular demands a seednode has to live up to?

On Jan 3, 2011, at 12:52 PM, Bill Ritchie wrote:

> I've been lurking for some time and I'm looking for a good way to contribute. 
>  If running a seed node helps then I'm all for it
> 
> I currently have several machines running freenet of which I would be happy 
> to use as a seednode.  My question is, what makes a good seednode? 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: devl-bounces at freenetproject.org [mailto:devl-bounces at 
> freenetproject.org] On Behalf Of Matthew Toseland
> Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2011 1:05 PM
> To: devl at freenetproject.org; support at freenetproject.org
> Subject: [freenet-dev] Seednodes: Removing me and need more!
> 
> I have removed my node from the seednodes list as of the next build because 
> being a seednode makes it very difficult to debug timeout bugs. However, we 
> only have 8 seednodes at the moment. Please email me your opennet noderef 
> (from the Strangers page in advanced mode) if you can be a seednode. Thanks!
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Re: [freenet-dev] Seednodes: Removing me and need more!

[Daxter]

I second this. I'm more than willing to help out, but could you give us some 
more information about the particular demands a seednode has to live up to?

On Jan 3, 2011, at 12:52 PM, Bill Ritchie wrote:

> I've been lurking for some time and I'm looking for a good way to contribute. 
>  If running a seed node helps then I'm all for it
> 
> I currently have several machines running freenet of which I would be happy 
> to use as a seednode.  My question is, what makes a good seednode? 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: devl-boun...@freenetproject.org 
> [mailto:devl-boun...@freenetproject.org] On Behalf Of Matthew Toseland
> Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2011 1:05 PM
> To: devl@freenetproject.org; supp...@freenetproject.org
> Subject: [freenet-dev] Seednodes: Removing me and need more!
> 
> I have removed my node from the seednodes list as of the next build because 
> being a seednode makes it very difficult to debug timeout bugs. However, we 
> only have 8 seednodes at the moment. Please email me your opennet noderef 
> (from the Strangers page in advanced mode) if you can be a seednode. Thanks!
> ___
> Devl mailing list
> Devl@freenetproject.org
> http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

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[freenet-dev] Should we have another mini-summit?

[Daxter]

On Dec 8, 2010, at 15:27, Ian Clarke  wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 7:14 AM, Matthew Toseland  amphibian.dyndns.org> wrote:
> 3) FPI pays for any long haul flights I need. :)
> 
> One question: Are you a good swimmer? ;-)
> 
> I'm not committed to doing it in the US by any means, I like to travel to the 
> UK at least once a year as I have a lot of friends there.
> 
> My point is that if doing it in the US would help a lot of people attend, 
> then we should, but the fact that I'm here probably shouldn't influence the 
> decision one way or the other.  My impression is that most of the key people 
> are in Europe.
> 

And I haven't been around long enough to even be considered semi-important. 
Though I would love to be able to attend, it's obviously not a make-or-break 
situation for the community. I just wanted to let you all know that depending 
on the location I would definitely be there, and a few of my comp-sci buddies 
are interested in Freenet and may attend as well. 

> Ian.
>  
> -- 
> Ian Clarke
> CEO, SenseArray
> Email: ian at sensearray.com
> Ph: +1 512 422 3588
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Re: [freenet-dev] Should we have another mini-summit?

[Daxter]

On Dec 8, 2010, at 15:27, Ian Clarke  wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 7:14 AM, Matthew Toseland  
> wrote:
> 3) FPI pays for any long haul flights I need. :)
> 
> One question: Are you a good swimmer? ;-)
> 
> I'm not committed to doing it in the US by any means, I like to travel to the 
> UK at least once a year as I have a lot of friends there.
> 
> My point is that if doing it in the US would help a lot of people attend, 
> then we should, but the fact that I'm here probably shouldn't influence the 
> decision one way or the other.  My impression is that most of the key people 
> are in Europe.
> 

And I haven't been around long enough to even be considered semi-important. 
Though I would love to be able to attend, it's obviously not a make-or-break 
situation for the community. I just wanted to let you all know that depending 
on the location I would definitely be there, and a few of my comp-sci buddies 
are interested in Freenet and may attend as well. 

> Ian.
>  
> -- 
> Ian Clarke
> CEO, SenseArray
> Email: i...@sensearray.com
> Ph: +1 512 422 3588
> ___
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[freenet-dev] Should we have another mini-summit?

[Daxter]

I would like to second your motion to meet in/near Texas. As a college student, 
that's the only way I could afford to attend.

On Dec 7, 2010, at 8:15 PM, Ian Clarke wrote:

> I could arrange to be in the UK next Summer on a specific date if something 
> was planned well in advance.
> 
> Or we could do it in the US, and you could all enjoy a free massage at the 
> TSA's expense ;-)  Actually, if we were going to do it anywhere near Texas, 
> spring would be way better as it gets uncomfortably hot in the summer.
> 
> While the last summit was fun, its a long time to wait, I wouldn't want to 
> hold off on anything important just so that we can meet in person.
> 
> Ian.
> 
> On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 8:09 PM, Matthew Toseland  amphibian.dyndns.org> wrote:
> Would it be a good idea to have another Freenet mini-summit next year? 
> Sometime in early summer, at which point 0.8 will (presumably) have shipped, 
> in some convenient London perhaps? Or was last time a fluke derived from 
> various people just happening to be in the UK at the time?
> 

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Re: [freenet-dev] Should we have another mini-summit?

[Daxter]

I would like to second your motion to meet in/near Texas. As a college student, 
that's the only way I could afford to attend.

On Dec 7, 2010, at 8:15 PM, Ian Clarke wrote:

> I could arrange to be in the UK next Summer on a specific date if something 
> was planned well in advance.
> 
> Or we could do it in the US, and you could all enjoy a free massage at the 
> TSA's expense ;-)  Actually, if we were going to do it anywhere near Texas, 
> spring would be way better as it gets uncomfortably hot in the summer.
> 
> While the last summit was fun, its a long time to wait, I wouldn't want to 
> hold off on anything important just so that we can meet in person.
> 
> Ian.
> 
> On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 8:09 PM, Matthew Toseland  
> wrote:
> Would it be a good idea to have another Freenet mini-summit next year? 
> Sometime in early summer, at which point 0.8 will (presumably) have shipped, 
> in some convenient London perhaps? Or was last time a fluke derived from 
> various people just happening to be in the UK at the time?
> 

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[freenet-dev] Addressing the "Barlow" attack against opennet

[Daxter]

On Dec 3, 2010, at 1:15 PM, Klaus Koch wrote:

>>> It is a hard problem. But our traditional approach hasn't been terribly
>>> honest IMHO.
> 
> We were talking on #freenet on how to explain new users in a few words 
> (installer?) what freenet's security is all about and how to "warn" them of 
> the shortcomings of opennet. I came up with the following text:
> 
> "Freenet's security and anonymity is based on the idea that users connect to
> people they trust. Opennet mode (=LOW security level) is a convenience feature
> for new users who don't have trusted peers yet and it's security is not as 
> strong as darknet (= MEDIUM/HIGH security level). Use this mode to befriend 
> people you think you can trust. Get the highest security out of freenet by 
> connection to your reallife friends!"
> 
> somehow there's still missing that even connecting to a coworker is better 
> than a random stranger, but I still struggle to put it into one of the 
> sentences...

I think the most potent reason to connect to friends is that any bad people 
that want to identify you are invariably going to have a large number of nodes 
on opennet so that they can intercept your communications. Any random node that 
you connect to has a chance of being one of those bad nodes, while the 
real-life friends you hand pick to connect to have a zero-percent chance of 
running such a node (unless you have a /really/ bad judgement of character).

Now shorten this for newbies so they would actually read it...

> 
> Ratchet

Re: [freenet-dev] Addressing the "Barlow" attack against opennet

[Daxter]

On Dec 3, 2010, at 1:15 PM, Klaus Koch wrote:

>>> It is a hard problem. But our traditional approach hasn't been terribly
>>> honest IMHO.
> 
> We were talking on #freenet on how to explain new users in a few words 
> (installer?) what freenet's security is all about and how to "warn" them of 
> the shortcomings of opennet. I came up with the following text:
> 
> "Freenet's security and anonymity is based on the idea that users connect to
> people they trust. Opennet mode (=LOW security level) is a convenience feature
> for new users who don't have trusted peers yet and it's security is not as 
> strong as darknet (= MEDIUM/HIGH security level). Use this mode to befriend 
> people you think you can trust. Get the highest security out of freenet by 
> connection to your reallife friends!"
> 
> somehow there's still missing that even connecting to a coworker is better 
> than a random stranger, but I still struggle to put it into one of the 
> sentences...

I think the most potent reason to connect to friends is that any bad people 
that want to identify you are invariably going to have a large number of nodes 
on opennet so that they can intercept your communications. Any random node that 
you connect to has a chance of being one of those bad nodes, while the 
real-life friends you hand pick to connect to have a zero-percent chance of 
running such a node (unless you have a /really/ bad judgement of character).

Now shorten this for newbies so they would actually read it...

> 
> Ratchet

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[freenet-dev] Addressing the "Barlow" attack against opennet

[Daxter]

On Dec 3, 2010, at 1:11 AM, Volodya wrote:
> While it's true i still hear of some ISPs in different countries which charge
> disproportionate amount for the traffic between countries. I had an 
> accointance
> from Portugal, and he said that it was only "2-3 am" when he had free traffic
> from other countries, and within Portugal it was free 24/7 (well after the
> monthly charges).
> 
> Also you will slow down the connection in some places (like Ukraine) where
> within the country the connection is quite fast, but it's complete rubbish to
> the outside world.

If you take another look, xor proposed this feature to be optional. People 
should choose the setting that best fits their situation (and we should make it 
easy to understand).

> So what this feature can lead to is once again people going and looking to
> establish darknet connections to *just anybody* in their own country, making 
> the
> things worse rather than better.

I don't see why this would happen. If this option is off by default, then it 
would likely only be used by those who need it and understand its repercussions.

An extension to this potentially helpful feature would allow users to set 
whether their node connects to others inside of their own address range, how 
many peers to accept from any particular range, whether to allow connections 
from corp/gov IPs, and anything along these lines. Of course, this would/should 
only be used by knowledgable users and there should be default values in place 
that don't upset the "force" (Freenet's routing status quo).

> - Volodya

Re: [freenet-dev] Addressing the "Barlow" attack against opennet

[Daxter]

On Dec 3, 2010, at 1:11 AM, Volodya wrote:
> While it's true i still hear of some ISPs in different countries which charge
> disproportionate amount for the traffic between countries. I had an 
> accointance
> from Portugal, and he said that it was only "2-3 am" when he had free traffic
> from other countries, and within Portugal it was free 24/7 (well after the
> monthly charges).
> 
> Also you will slow down the connection in some places (like Ukraine) where
> within the country the connection is quite fast, but it's complete rubbish to
> the outside world.

If you take another look, xor proposed this feature to be optional. People 
should choose the setting that best fits their situation (and we should make it 
easy to understand).

> So what this feature can lead to is once again people going and looking to
> establish darknet connections to *just anybody* in their own country, making 
> the
> things worse rather than better.

I don't see why this would happen. If this option is off by default, then it 
would likely only be used by those who need it and understand its repercussions.

An extension to this potentially helpful feature would allow users to set 
whether their node connects to others inside of their own address range, how 
many peers to accept from any particular range, whether to allow connections 
from corp/gov IPs, and anything along these lines. Of course, this would/should 
only be used by knowledgable users and there should be default values in place 
that don't upset the "force" (Freenet's routing status quo).

> - Volodya
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[freenet-dev] Moving to Java 1.6???

[Daxter]

On Oct 29, 2010, at 10:30 AM, Robert Hailey wrote:

> On 2010/10/29 (Oct), at 6:38 AM, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> 
>> On Thursday 28 October 2010 18:51:36 Robert Hailey wrote:
>>> 
>>> I suppose I can call myself "no-one" now...
>>> 
>>> I use java-5, I use freenet, and I could foresee it disturbing my
>>> ability to contribute code.
>> 
>> Because you use a PPC Mac?
> 
> Correct.

As I said earlier, Java 7 is already available for PPC Macs running 10.5. 
Quoting myself: 

"SoyLatte has OpenJDK 7 (beta) available for Mac OS X 10.5 on the PPC 
architecture: http://landonf.bikemonkey.org/static/soylatte/

Any PPC Mac that's capable of running Freenet can handle upgrading to 10.5. I 
would know; I tested it out on a PowerMac (G3 I believe) that would almost 
qualify as an adult. I haven't found a 1.6 version of this software yet...

The one question left would be... is v7 backward compatible to run what would 
be Freenet coded in v6?"

Re: [freenet-dev] Moving to Java 1.6???

[Daxter]

On Oct 29, 2010, at 10:30 AM, Robert Hailey wrote:

> On 2010/10/29 (Oct), at 6:38 AM, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> 
>> On Thursday 28 October 2010 18:51:36 Robert Hailey wrote:
>>> 
>>> I suppose I can call myself "no-one" now...
>>> 
>>> I use java-5, I use freenet, and I could foresee it disturbing my
>>> ability to contribute code.
>> 
>> Because you use a PPC Mac?
> 
> Correct.

As I said earlier, Java 7 is already available for PPC Macs running 10.5. 
Quoting myself: 

"SoyLatte has OpenJDK 7 (beta) available for Mac OS X 10.5 on the PPC 
architecture: http://landonf.bikemonkey.org/static/soylatte/

Any PPC Mac that's capable of running Freenet can handle upgrading to 10.5. I 
would know; I tested it out on a PowerMac (G3 I believe) that would almost 
qualify as an adult. I haven't found a 1.6 version of this software yet...

The one question left would be... is v7 backward compatible to run what would 
be Freenet coded in v6?"
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[freenet-dev] Moving to Java 1.6???

[Daxter]

On Oct 28, 2010, at 1:04 PM, Robert Hailey wrote:
> On 2010/10/28 (Oct), at 12:51 PM, Robert Hailey wrote:
>>> On Mac OS X, 10.4 is just old, and active OSX users will upgrade they?ll 
>>> computers to get new operating systems.
>> 
>> At the least OS X 10.5 has java-5 as the default vm, so it might cause a 
>> disruption to anyone on a PPC who is "stuck" at 10.5
> 
> Java-6 is not supported on PPC (as per: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4296), 
> but I somehow managed to get it working sometime ago via a hackish article 
> some time ago which I cannot find at the moment.

SoyLatte has OpenJDK 7 (beta) available for Mac OS X 10.5 on the PPC 
architecture: http://landonf.bikemonkey.org/static/soylatte/

Any PPC Mac that's capable of running Freenet can handle upgrading to 10.5. I 
would know; I tested it out on a PowerMac (G3 I believe) that would almost 
qualify as an adult. I haven't found a 1.6 version of this software yet...

The one question left would be... is v7 backward compatible to run what would 
be Freenet coded in v6?

~Daxter
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Re: [freenet-dev] Moving to Java 1.6???

[Daxter]

On Oct 28, 2010, at 1:04 PM, Robert Hailey wrote:
> On 2010/10/28 (Oct), at 12:51 PM, Robert Hailey wrote:
>>> On Mac OS X, 10.4 is just old, and active OSX users will upgrade they’ll 
>>> computers to get new operating systems.
>> 
>> At the least OS X 10.5 has java-5 as the default vm, so it might cause a 
>> disruption to anyone on a PPC who is "stuck" at 10.5
> 
> Java-6 is not supported on PPC (as per: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4296), 
> but I somehow managed to get it working sometime ago via a hackish article 
> some time ago which I cannot find at the moment.

SoyLatte has OpenJDK 7 (beta) available for Mac OS X 10.5 on the PPC 
architecture: http://landonf.bikemonkey.org/static/soylatte/

Any PPC Mac that's capable of running Freenet can handle upgrading to 10.5. I 
would know; I tested it out on a PowerMac (G3 I believe) that would almost 
qualify as an adult. I haven't found a 1.6 version of this software yet...

The one question left would be... is v7 backward compatible to run what would 
be Freenet coded in v6?

~Daxter___
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