Re: [DDN] Andrew Kantor on Social Networks, Net Neutrality
I've emailed Andrew a response, and cc'ed this list. I'd suggest that those who disagree with his views on network neutrality contact him directly, also with a cc to the list. It'd be interesting to hear his arguments on this, and he'll certainly more compelled to respond if he's engaged by a larger number of voices on this issue. I think he's right on point about MySpace, however...it's far too easy to fearmonger about the dangers of cyberspace, and we're seeing far too much fearmongering passing for responsible reporting in the media these days when it comes to social networking technologies. Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Charlie Meisch wrote: > > Thoughtful insight on two topics that we've discussed in this forum. > > Cheers, > Charlie Meisch > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columnist/andrewkantor/2006-07-20-revisiting-old-columns_x.htm > > > Revisiting MySpace protection, ethanol fuel and net neutrality > Posted 7/20/2006 3:01 PM ET > After a column appears, I often get e-mail with more information about > the subject or simply food for thought. At the same time, the news > marches on, proving, disproving, or adding new twists to what I've said. > So every now and again I like to revisit a few of my previous columns to > see what's changed either in the world or in my thinking. > > MySpace, the latest frontier > > When our politicians and media need to scare us, they love to turn to > technology for a bogeyman. They'll take a handful of horror stories, > blow them out of proportion, then demand that someone do something to > protect the children. > > As I pointed out in March, the latest victim of this is MySpace, a site > that lets anyone create a website and connect easily with other people > doing the same. > > It's only gotten worse. The Texas attorney general complained that > MySpace isn't doing enough to protect users, such as a 14-year-old girl > using MySpace because — seriously — it didn't do enough to stop her from > going on a date with a guy she met there, who subsequently raped her. > > And now Congress is considering a bill, the "Deleting Online Predators > Act," that would require libraries and schools that receive federal > funding to "protect minors from commercial social networking websites > and chat rooms." > > The government wants to prevent minors from going to sites that could > possibly cause them harm. Forget a "Teaching Parents to Act Like Parents > Act," or an "Understanding the Real Threats Act." Let's legislate from > headlines and develop policy from anecdotes. > > It's not just stupid, it's dangerous. The same logic used to justify a > ban on these sites could be used to justify a ban on anything — on any > site that espouses a view the government deems "harmful." After all, we > don't just need to protect our kids from harmful people, we need to > protect them from harmful ideas. > > Like every other bandwagon, this one will eventually run out of steam, > but for the time being we're apparently stuck with it. > > > > Shifting to neutral > > Back in February, I wrote in support of "network neutrality" the idea > that the companies that make the Internet's pipes or, if you prefer, > "tubes" wouldn't be allowed to create different tiers of service. The > fear is that only those that can afford to pay exorbitant fees would be > able to deliver things like high-quality video. > > But a few weeks later I wrote that I had changed my mind based on what I > had learned since then. I think a Net neutrality law is at best > unnecessary, at worst a bottleneck to development. > > Since then, I've clarified my thinking further. There's a fundamental > question here: Do the pipe owners view what travels on their networks > based on the content, or their connection? > > Let me clarify. > > Imagine in the near future that Disney wants to stream the movie > "Aladdin" to a customer in New York. To get it there, it starts on > Sprint (Disney's network provider) but has to travel over Verizon's > network. Disney pays Sprint a lot of money for a fast connection, but of > course doesn't pay Verizon a thing. > > Here's the $64,000 question: Will Verizon see "Aladdin" as content > coming from Disney, or as bytes coming from Sprint? > > Proponents of Net neutrality say Verizon will consider it a Disney > movie, and demand money from Disney. Opponents say Verizo
[DDN] Network Neutrality, your article
Andrew, I recently received a link to your article revisiting the network neutrality question, and I thought I'd point out a few things. You correctly identified the bogeyman in the MySpace issue, but appear to have fallen for a similar trick with the network neutrality debate. I'll point out the bogeyman, first, since this might be easily overlooked by the non-technological: there is a difference between discrimination and prioritization. There is, perhaps, justification for prioritizing e-surgery traffic over emails to mom. However, the important thing is that e-surgery traffic from Hospital A is treated the same as e-surgery traffic from Hospital B. It's easy to use the "email to mom" example to make this debate ludicrous, but that's the bogeyman; the actual problem is that there are no protections to ensure that traffic from one source is treated the same as traffic from another. The question is not whether my e-surgeon's connection is slow and laggy because of email to mom, the question is whether my e-surgeon's connection is slow because Comcast bought (or was paid off by) a rival hospital. I don't want to have to follow and analyze the local telecommunications industry before choosing a surgeon. In 2004, Madison River (a large North Carolina ISP) blocked all rival web-based telephone traffic (VOIP) for their DSL customers, thereby using their monopoly position to force customers to use their VOIP services, eliminating all competition. In April of this year, Time Warner's AOL blocked all emails that mentioned a website that pointed out the potential problems consumers might face if AOL implemented its proposed pay-to-send-an-email scheme. In the cable TV world, Comcast recently censored ABC's Nightline to edit out content that highlighted a video of a Comcast technician (literally) sleeping on the job. It is now being claimed that the error was on the part of ABC; however, this seems so convenient for Comcast that I'd say I'm a little skeptical of this explanation. Comcast, incidentally, is one of the major players promising to never use the lack of network neutrality protections to gain an unfair advantage over their competitors. In the light of these examples, I would argue that there is a definite danger that ISPs will use their god-given monopoly status to subtly, but surely, change the way we receive internet content, including what we see and hear. They've done it before. You stated that this would in no way change the way in which the average home user accesses Google. How can you be so sure? If this were true, why is Google so against this concept? Wasn't it clearly and resentfully stated (by SBC, no less) that Google was "using their pipes for free" at the start of this whole debate? Google delivers neither e-surgery traffic nor cable TV alternatives (though it can deliver access to video). Most of Google's traffic is related to its search engine. If this is about creating speed lanes for video and hospitals and other priority channels, why would Google have come into this at all? To make this conversation about prioritization of traffic types is an oversimplification designed to reassure the sheeple, and make us forget the word "discrimination". There are some scary possibilities once we look past the bogeyman. Lastly, I'll point out that there are few (if any) market forces of competition at work in the telecommunications industry. I would switch away from Comcast if I had another option...but I do not, despite living in a very affluent suburb of Chicago. Comcast is my only option for high speed internet unless I want to pay truly astronomical rates. If Comcast begins to censor my internet, or forces me to use their VOIP service instead of my current Sunrocket VOIP, I would have to *move* to a different location to exercise my right to choose my own internet provider. This is an extreme situation, and not one undertaken lightly...how many people will shop for a home based on the level of telco competition in the area? If customers truly had the right to choose, wouldn't Madison River have lost of all of their customers as soon as they began blocking rival DSL traffic? If customers had this choice, why would the ISP have considered this move in the first place? I'd ask you to reconsider your stance on network neutrality (perhaps even revisit the issue in your writing again?) or respond with counterarguments to what I've said above, if you've considered these points already. I'm cc'ing the Digital Divide Network to this email, since I first received snippets from your article there and I'm sure there will be many interested parties following this discussion on the list. Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- _
[DDN] Internet Censored in China! Oops, I meant Chicago.
Today is another glorious day in the People's Republic of Corporate Controlled Media. (Bend over, little consumer, and pass the lube.) As some of you may know, Comcast recently screwed up big time; one of their techs went out to someone's house on a repair call, curled up on the couch, and fell asleep. The customer video taped it and *boom* ...suddenly the video's everywhere, and everyone knows about it. Nightline recently discussed the issue on the air. Do you have Comcast cable TV? If you live in Chicago, this is almost a given, since they have complete monopoly control over most areas. I live in the western suburbs, and there are no competing cable TV providers here or in any neighboring burbs. There were no competing providers in Hyde Park, where I used to live before this. The problem here is that Comcast happily censored the episode. Instead of the full version, Comcast viewers saw an incredibly brief mention of the incident, following by a *very* rough cut into an unrelated story. A first year film student could have done a better job of making this subtle...as it is, this was fairly obvious. Want to see what I'm talking about? The Comcast version and original versions of the episode are available here: http://tinyurl.com/h5yqk Pretty much speaks for itself. Following in the footsteps of AOL, which blocks content critical of AOL, Comcast has decided to take more direct control over what you do and don't see on the air...including what you think of as "news". Now that's customer service for you...not only has the problem been taken care of, they're so sure it's been taken care of that they don't want to waste your time letting Nightline tell you about it to begin with. What's next? Subcontract this to the Chinese government for some real expertise? Man, what would I do without Comcast censoring my news? Wouldn't I be deluged with all this awful information? Good thing we don't have network neutrality; that would have been a real bummer. Imagine Comcast not being able to censor websites and email the same way they censor what I see on TV? Though *of course* Comcast would never censor something as fundamental as a news service...I mean, that would completely go against what consumers want, right? And if they did it, they'd lose millions of customers overnight, etc? And they *promise* that they have no current plans to censor anything, since they'd lose customers. They're right. If I had another cable provider to turn to, I'd switch in a heartbeat. Sure, some of us hate the news. Sure, it's biased. But for your cable TV provider to be able to legally censor what news you are allowed to see is ridiculous. As ridiculous as the lack of network neutrality protections in the United States that allows this both for our TV and our internet access. Does anyone see any difference between the Indian and Chinese governments censoring content they don't like and Comcast censoring content they don't like? Why do more of us know about China censoring their media when Comcast is doing it to us, right here in the good ol' USA? Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Nicholas Negroponte- ISTE NECC Speech
Surya, Great links! Thanks a lot for bringing both of those projects to my attention...I had never heard of the first and only vaguely heard of the second as a movie I should see when I have some free time. While I'm very happy to learn about these projects, I still have a problem with the idea that children can learn to repair these machines themselves. It appears I was wrong, and children *can* figure out trackpads and mice on their own. However, the hole in the wall project is a great example in one regard; an "expert" with technology was responsible for the installation. Presumably, if something goes wrong with the machine, he's the one who make sure it gets fixed. This is infrastructure; the project is being backed by someone local (the computer is in the wall of his office) who has the expertise to both install / setup the project and maintain it as necessary. While I may be wrong about children teaching themselves the technology, I'm not so sure that I'm wrong about the support. How many of the members of this list, right now, are using laptops? I'd guess a fair number of us are. How many of us could take that laptop apart and replace a hard drive? This is a very basic repair, and fairly simple on a desktop, yet I'd guess a very large number of us would not do it for our laptops, preferring instead to send it in for warranty service or have a tech do it. I've been messing around with computers for years...just long enough to know that if my desktop's CRT goes out, I replace it instead of trying to open it, because an unplugged CRT monitor (like a TV) will hold a charge powerful enough to electrocute me several years after being unplugged. Someone I work with recently had the screen go out on his laptop. He's a technologist with many more years of experience than me working as a technology advocate, bridging the digital divide. He sent the laptop in for Dell to repair, since neither he nor I wanted to tackle an LCD screen replacement ourselves. My own laptop has been unusable for several months since the power connector is dead. Even though I *am* able to upgrade my own RAM and processor, change my hard drives, etc...I still can't change that power board myself, because I'd need to solder the power connector onto the power board. I don't have a soldering iron; I'd imagine that the kids using these laptops won't have one either. TVs and cellular phones are also parallel examples; while a great many of the poorest communities now have televisions, and many are coming into contact with cellular phones, I am not under the impression that many of these people are repairing their own hardware. Similarly, the hole in the wall project doesn't tell us what happens if one of the computers gets a virus, or is misconfigured and can no longer access the internet. What we can learn from the small scale hole in the wall project is that, with a technology infrastructure in place, unstructured learning can take place with surprising results. However, this is not an argument for completely unstructured learning, and nor is it a justification for attempting the same thing without that infrastructure in place. Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Surya Ganguly wrote: >> I've never seen a piece >> of hardware so simple that a child in a third world >> nation (who is completely digitally illiterate) >> could intuitively repair. A child who >> has never seen a laptop before cannot intuitively >> use a mouse/trackpad. > > I have! > > http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/india/ > > Here's another. > > http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0388789/ > > Just two of many examples of well-designed, self-directed learning > environments overcoming the need for structured training, in the > process, defining new learning paradigms. As the teacher of a > technology workforce development program in New York City, I > quickly learned that students learnt faster than I could teach, if > I left them alone and set up interesting problems for them to > solve. > > -SG > > > ___ > DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list > DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org > http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide > To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE > in the body of the message. > ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Nicholas Negroponte- ISTE NECC Speech
It's definitely an interesting idea...I wasn't aware that CLIEs with those capabilities could be found for less than the $100 price tag Negropointe's initiative is aiming for. If so, I'd buy one myself...what's the cheapest handheld with a wifi card? Most of the options I've looked at are in the $300 - $400 range. Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Mark Frazier wrote: > Joe, > > This is an intriguing idea! > >>> Sony Clie's do all the same thing, including video, sound, mp3, text, > still, flash, and even internet > > Can you help identify specific (low-cost) Clie models that have all the > above capabilities? A recent check on eBay yielded a number of >$250 Clie > models. > > We'd like to find more affordable options -- ideally in the $75-$100 range > -- with the capabilities that you mentioned. > > The aim is for student teams to use them for eLesson creation/sharing at > entrepreneurially-run schools for the poor. > > We're aiming to try them in grassroots learning initiatives such as the > Virtual Academy in a Sri Lankan farming village (www.horizonlanka.org) and > the microscholarship system at eCenters in Kyrgyzstan > (http://tinyurl.com/q4aqv). > > Look forward to hearing from you... > > Best, > > Mark Frazier > President > Openworld, Inc. > "Creating assets for grassroots initiatives" > www.openworld.com > > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Beckmann > Sent: 07/13/2006 8:51 AM > To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group > Subject: Re: [DDN] Nicholas Negroponte- ISTE NECC Speech > > While I certainly sympathize with ipods as micro-supercomputers, much older > - and thereby much cheaper - Sony Clie's do all the same thing, including > video, sound, mp3, text, still, flash, and even internet. What they lack is > phone, but that is what distinguishes the smartphones. In the meantime, I > wonder that people haven't collected old Clie's from Sony and EBay and > created whole computer classrooms able to do most of what a full scale lab > can do, with much more flexibility, at much less than Negroponte's projected > computer, with much more software capacity. > > Joe Beckmann > > On 7/12/06, Stephen Snow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Dave, et. al., >> >> I was directly involved in people learning to use and maintain a great >> variety of equipment for a bunch of years, and I certainly don't doubt >> that equipment has become simpler to maintain; that's often the case. >> I also saw great frustration from people who used equipment and either >> didn't know how or didn't want to learn how (a LOT of people do not >> feel comfortable with fixing ANYthing. Anything.); they just wanted to >> be able to DO things. >> >> I am sympathetic to the idea of kids connecting more intuitively to >> the equipment...at least SOME kids. Remember, MANY kids aren't that >> way! It's a brain development thing. >> >> So how do *the rest of us* manage? Remember when the Mac was created, >> ostensibly for "the rest of us"? Even today, in my much more limited >> connection to electronic technology, I field email from people who are >> asking me questions such as, "Why is the web page on my screen bigger >> than the screen? It won't all fit on there!" >> >> And this is not an uncommon level of question. My point is that we can >> *pretend* all we want that people, especially "young people" (who get >> everything!) will just "get it" and things will be fine. That is a >> setup for failure designed to serve the limited view of people who are >> designing something they want to have out there and they don't have a >> solution for this other stuff, so they merely explain it away. I don't >> buy it. It not only sets up such a project for failure, but the >> message then is that the PEOPLE are failures for not being able to >> figure it out. >> >> As for the limitations of the ipod as a training too, I agree. Part of >> the appeal of it for me is its size. It is so small and easy to lug >> around and you have dongles to connect to everything else. it is the >> universal hard drive that connects to other less portable media to do >> stuff. It's not the holy grail, by far. I also really like the mpeg >> players that are built into wireless phones. They are a little bulkier
Re: [DDN] Nicholas Negroponte- ISTE NECC Speech
"he seemed to say that they are making the computer so simple to fix that the children can take care of the problems." Bonnie, That statement, if Negropointe is making it, packs an awful lot of promise with not much substantial detail (yet). I've never seen a piece of hardware so simple that a child in a third world nation (who is completely digitally illiterate) could intuitively repair. A child who has never seen a laptop before cannot intuitively use a mouse / trackpad. No matter how simple this device becomes (and I'm not convinced it can be all that simple), there is a question of training and support. I'm thinking about the children I've seen in villages in India...you would have to train a teacher to train those students how to use an Ipod, let alone a laptop. And that's just to use it! Repair and support is a whole new area of training and infrastructure. Stephen, The Ipod is definitely an intriguing tool for training (I should convince my boss to buy me one for, er, training purposes). I'm wondering how long it'll be before someone comes up with a Linux distro that'll run on it, or before Apple releases OSipod, adds wifi, and takes over the mobile computing market in one swoop. For the price, I'm actually not sure the Ipod's the best educational tool (though it has "cool" value in attracting users to it). A little more than a video Ipod will buy you a mobile tablet that will not only play audio and video but also connect you to the internet, handle office documents, email, etc. This strikes me as a more useful tool for all kinds of training... Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > In a message dated 7/10/06 5:20:25 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > >> This is a very grand vision, no doubt, but there crucial points that may >> be brushed over in the rhetoric. I'll point out one example, since it >> was one I was looking for: "The children will maintain the laptops >> themselves". >> > > I am sure that I am not steeped enough in the initiative to answer this > question, but he seemed to say that they are making the computer so simple to > fix > that the children can take care of the problems. which will be simple based > on > the design of the tool. We did not talk about content, I did with a young > lady > from MIT but we only were talking about specialized software or initiatives > that meet the millenium > > I was only sitting in the audience reporting what I heard. It is good to > think about the content. So often we only talk about the hardware. > > Bonnie Bracey Sutton > bbr > ___ > DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list > DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org > http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide > To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE > in the body of the message. > ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Nicholas Negroponte- ISTE NECC Speech
This is a very grand vision, no doubt, but there crucial points that may be brushed over in the rhetoric. I'll point out one example, since it was one I was looking for: "The children will maintain the laptops themselves". How? Who is going to train a child to maintain a laptop? Is Negropointe funding the training? I'd *love* to see children able to maintain their own laptops, but the truth of the matter is, very few techies in the US ever meddle with laptop hardware. Website developers, community technologists, people who can build a desktop machine from the ground up...all of them give up and get warranty service on their laptops. Why? Because everything is proprietary, the machines are delicate, and soldiering the power connector back on to your laptop's main board is somewhat more daunting than popping a PCI card into your desktop. Or does he mean they'll maintain their own software? I don't think that training is everything; those laptops could be an incredible tool for systemic social change. But they're only one step. Negropointe talks about not focusing on the laptops but on using them as tools to teach learning, instead of tools to teach something. Pedagogically, this sounds great...but then he contradicts himself by focusing entirely on the laptop itself, instead of on the teaching. Who's managing this $100 file server? Who's training the teachers who are (supposedly) training these students to maintain their own laptops? These questions are still unanswered. I think the cost per laptop may be cut down to $100 if you (irresponsibly) leave out training, service and support in addition to your marketing costs...and I'm far from convinced that Negropointe's not "marketing" this. Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I am listening to Nicholas Negroponte, telling his story about the computer > that will change the world. > > He has referenced the beginning of the ideas , back from Seymour Papert's > ideas of teaching children to think, and how we could use Logo programming > when > it was a new initiative. > > He said, that , back then in the seventies, that it changed the way that > children using technology to think. > > Thirty years forward, he is describing the way it works in developing nations > and the difficulty of getting there , the location, the place, a person with > old pc's with a generator.. and they are teaching the kids Word and Excel > > in various countries all over the world.. with the misconception that > learning these programs will change the world. > > He is describing to us the three basic principles > > Use technology to learn learning not to learn something > > teaching is one but not the only way to achieve learning > > Leverage children themselves > > some > > 50 percent of the children in this world live in rural , poor, part of the > world and many of the children have barely a sixth grade education, and go to > school in shifts in huge groups. > More peer to peer teaching has to happen, and the children have to help with > the learning. > > He showed various pictures of children around the world who were being > introduced to technology from Dakar to Costa Rica... There are pictures of > children > from India, to ..Kashmir... and they showed use of wifi to connect the > various > groups of children. But connectivity is not the thing > the truth is that this technology is unfolding, the problem is not > telecommunications > it is the laptops.. the LAPTOPS > > He sent his son to Cambodia to create a project, and they had connectivity, > laptops, and created a > infrastructure in villages with no electricity, no roads, no resources, no > lights.. > the computers go home, and the light from the computers was the only light at > home. ( as long as the batteries lasted) > > Story in the US > Angus King started the laptop initiative in Maine and it was revolutionary. > He states that the initiative creates a new way of looking at technology. He > described the initiative. > > What is One Laptop Per Child? > > 1.A non profit entity of $30 M funding for non recurring engineering costs > > 2. About scale, scale, being global is crucial launch 5-10 million in 2007 > 50-150 million 2008 , in five large diverse countries. > > 3. To provide to children, to own, to take home to use seamlessly. > > There are partners > > Google, Ebay, AMC, News Corp, Brightstar, Marvell, Nortell, Red hat, 3M, etc > > A lot about laptops > > This is an education and a learning project. > Getting to a hundred dollard is
Re: [DDN] [Fwd: [WSIS CS-Plenary] US government is asking for comments on how the internet should be run]
Bill, Could you summarize the issues surrounding ICANN and US dominance over top level control of the internet? It's something I'd like to know more about, and I imagine it'd help to have that information before posting a comment. Thanks! Dave. ------- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Bill McIver wrote: > > > Original Message > Subject: [WSIS CS-Plenary] US government is asking for comments on > how the internet should be run > Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 10:07:08 -0300 > From: Bill McIver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Organization: (NRC IIT / CNRC ITI) > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > (I assume that discussion of this has been running > over on the WSIS Internet Governance list. I send this > in case others do not know about it.) > > > The internet needs YOU! > US government asks for comments on how net is run > By Kieren McCarthy > Published Sunday 2nd July 2006 23:13 GMT > Security White Papers - Download them free from Reg Research > > The US government is asking for comments on how the internet should be > run, and anyone is allowed to comment - but you'll need to be quick. > > The NTIA - an arm of the US government's department of commerce - is > holding a public meeting at the end of July over what should happen to > the current Internet overseeing organisation ICANN when its contract is > renewed in September. In the meantime, it has opened a public comment > board where you are able to email comments for the US government and the > rest of the world to see. The board is open now but comments need to be > sent by this Friday, 7 July. The email postal address is > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > More http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/07/02/ntia_icann_consultation/ > > > > WJM > ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
[DDN] Deconstructing Fearmongering: Summer Camps going nuts over MySpace
ng said about camp. Why isn't this an example of an organization embracing new technologies, instead of an example of an organization being forced to learn new tricks to monitor and control their wards? Internet education is not: "Hey, you can't ever mention (insert camp name here) on MySpace, post any pictures, or set up any references to camp or try to create an online community for campers that we don't have complete control over." In most cases, these features are online marketing and networking tools that an organization would spend a hefty chunk of their technology budget on. The media has found that fearmongering sells readership. Now the media is applying this to the realm of technology; instead of posting informative content, it's easier to play the sexual predator card and have concerned moms forwarding the article to their summer camp directors and so on and so forth. On the other hand, Fark.com had this article listed under the "stupid" tag a few hours after it was published, for good reason. Clearly, there are those who see this from different perspectives. The challenge is in getting alternative perspectives in front of the decision-makers at these organizations. If we want to suggest that digital literacy is a good thing, we are now in a position where we must directly confront clowns at the NY Times and elsewhere who would rather play off adults' fears than try to examine technology paradigms for their potential. How are we supposed to ask institutions to include internet literacy programming when they can refer to the NY Times as a source for this drivel? How are you going to teach responsible blogging when organizations want no blogs that they can't censor? Schools and Camps are being told by our media that censorship is the only option...and they're also putting those institutions in a position where *if* anything ever goes wrong, they'll be immediately criticized by parents and the media for not exerting enough censorship. Social networking tools should be embraced by summer camps and other child-friendly institutions as the number one way to effectively market their organizations on the internet; instead, the media would rather we were terrified of them. Children need to understand responsible blogging. What I post to the internet could directly influence my chances of being hired by the company I'm criticizing, for example. On the other hand, if my criticism is backed up by solid facts and I'm relating a valid user experience, it could be a very constructive tool. Similarly, a thirteen year old girl needs to know that posting her revealing pictures on the internet might be asking for trouble. If we teach her that we're just out to control her speech and censor her thoughts, how long is it going to be before she figures out how to post content to a site we have no control over (like MySpace) and posts whatever she likes? Is it ok for her to post those pictures as long as she's not mentioning an organization's name, so their butts are covered? In fearmongering, the NY Times becomes directly responsible for every organization they force into this path, and for every child that goes through another year on the internet without the right training in internet safety issues. Oh, and they're probably responsible for every school that gets slapped with a lawsuit on freedom of speech issues, too. Thoughts? Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: Fwd: [DDN] Are online social networks a fad?
Satish, I'd echo Dan, and ask if those CEOs feel the same way about LinkedIn? Or about the large number of Ivy League graduates on Facebook? MySpace may have the image of being a social networking tool for teenagers, complete with "unprofessional" content, background, and media, but that trend is far from ubiquitous, and doesn't even begin to describe social networking as a whole. For social networking to make sense, it must be themed by purpose. I'm not sure those themes can even be rigidly applied, given the ways in which it is possible to use MySpace to develop a constituency or a network of friendly faces. I'm curious as to whether any of those CEOs had backgrounds in marketing, or specifically in marketing with new media? Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Satish Jha wrote: > I was at a conference this week in Boston where they had a panel on socila > networking and the founder ceos of some of the major ones were present > there.. most of the professional network organisations ceos said that they > will not take any candidate who was spotted on myspace seriously.. in other > words, no matter how open and accessible things become, we will evolve ways > to clkassify them and create a caste system to determine what represents > what.. > > On 6/17/06, J Cravens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> > >>I just wanted to let you know about a blog entry I just wrote in >> >response to a C|NET News article that debated whether or not online >> >social networks are a fad. In it, I look at the history of online >> >community building, from the earliest bulletin board systems and >> >email lists to community networks and online social networks. >> >> Well, since you're sharing yours, I'll share mine: >> >> -- >> satish jha, [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > _ > https://www.linkedin.com/in/satishjha > ___ > DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list > DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org > http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide > To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. > ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Nokia 770 for Education?
I think the device has tremendous potential. And no, that's not just because I've been drooling on my keyboard reading the specs for the past month or so. Why? Because we're moving towards urban wifi in a big way. Chicago's taking unprecedented steps to ensure network neutrality and open infrastructure in their wifi RFP. In the United States, I will soon be able to say that pretty much everywhere I need it to work, a wifi device will work for me. That will justify the $350 tag for me easily. Being able to get online on a screen a little larger than a phone is nice, but wifi is better...because it frees me from having to pay a cellular service for my internet data. This means I can check email from anywhere, everywhere. IM and browsing are nice too, of course...and if you're a Drupal user, this means you can add content to your site while you're stuck on the train. Who needs GPS if I can do Google maps on my wifi? For that matter, how long before someone develops software that'll track your location and movement anonymously for muni wifi networks to act as pseudo-GPS, complete with ultra-local advertising? The killer app will be Google talk. Why? VOIP. This means that, theoretically, I'll have free cellular calling on wifi...no bills. If I want to be able to do true mobile phone calls, I'll have to pay something like $5 a month for an incoming number ($5 a month for free incoming calls is nothing to sneeze at, especially for parents with kids) or wait for a provider like Sunrocket to figure out how to interface with the system, in which case I'll pay $16 per month for unlimited local and long distance, incredibly advanced voicemail, and two incoming lines. The catch? Wifi is a bursty protocol, and my experiments with Sunrocket over a wifi link have not been very promising. It'll take some major bandwidth and a very reliable connection for VOIP over wifi to be anything approaching reliable. For someone who never uses a cell phone, like me, it'll be cool...but for most of the world, it's not going to replace cellular all that soon. For developing nations or rural locations, it may be much harder to justify the cost of this device given the difficulties in locating wifi infrastructure...the inherent mobility of the hardware may be lost, since you may be tied to the few wifi locations available. I'd question its use in India, for example...in most parts of India, you'd be deploying the device and then deploying an accompanying wifi connection for it to work from, meaning that you've effectively purchased an overpriced, tiny-screened desktop computer. At the price range, I'm also not entirely sure it's particularly innovative...how does it compare to say, a Dell Axim with built-in wifi and bluetooth? Same price range, the Dell's got a significantly faster processor, the Nokia might have a larger screen...other differences? And while we're at it, the Ipaq line's probably in the same price range as well. I'd expect mobile wifi to drop into the $150 price range in the near future for entry-level devices, which should make it significantly more affordable to deploy. I also expect the developing world to jump on the wifi bandwagon quickly (faster than the US if this country isn't careful, given how much control the telcos have over legislation here), which means that though this device may not have immediate significance as an educational tool for much of the world, it (or devices like it) will very soon. Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Brian Russell wrote: > What do educators think about students using mobile internet devices for > education? For example the Nokia 770. <http://www.nokiausa.com/770> > > Its an internet tablet with wifi built in, 800x480 touch screen, Linux > based OS, bluetooth, Opera web browser, GTalk (VOIP), IM, email client, > word processor, and I've even seen a Citrix client for it. > <http://tinyurl.com/lae6e> Keyboard is not included but has been known to > work via bluetooth. Retails for $359.95 USD. > > I haven't used this device but I thought it could be handy. Here are more > URLs about it. > http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationCatalog > www.internettablettalk.com/ > > -Brian R. > > __ >/__\ >\__/ > || > || > || > \__ > \_ Brian C. Russell >Media Activist/Tech Advocate >AudioActivism.org >ChapelHillWireless.org >PodcasterCon.org >Yesh.com >\__ > \__= It's a Mic... > > ___ > DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list > DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.o
Re: [DDN] Add yourself to the DDN world map!
Andy, A great resource, and one that is much appreciated. Would it be possible to include a "location" field in our profile information, which automatically adds us to the map? I know this is possible in some content management systems, but not sure how hard it would be to add this functionality to DDN...but it'd be great! Other ideas: adding website URL information to the map information popup, so it's easier to find information on people we find. I just found a fellow Chicagoan on DDN who I didn't know, but there's no easy way to find out more about his organizations / work... A lot of requests, I know...but thanks for the map! Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Andy Carvin wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I've just added a new DDN community for hosting a copy of the map: > > http://www.digitaldivide.net/community/map > > You can use this page to explore the map or add your on pin to the map. > It's also a featured community, so there's a link to the community on > the homepage, under the name "DDN Member Map." > > andy > > Andy Carvin wrote: >> Hi everyone, >> >> Just for kicks, I've created a new DDN member map on Frappr.com. >> Frappr uses Google Maps to let you create a map showing the locations >> of people affiliated to a community of interest. With the Frappr map, >> DDN members can pinpoint their location in the world and let others >> know where they're located. >> >> Please feel free to try it out here: >> >> http://www.frappr.com/digitaldividenetworkmembers >> >> Would be curious to hear from any regular Frappr users if they think >> the tool could be useful to DDN. >> >> thanks, >> andy >> > ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Missing the point .....
Ken, Unfortunately, I think you are contradicting yourself. You say that you "disagree with the opportunism that Microsoft uses to pry into my computer under the guise of giving me a critical update" ...however, there is nothing illegal in what Microsoft is doing. It was all there in an license agreement somewhere that you signed, albeit in tiny print down at the bottom somewhere. Spyware isn't illegal, as long as it's declared...if I sell you a program that emails me personal information about you, but you downloaded and installed it knowingly (especially if you signed a license agreement) then what I am doing is perfectly legal. Free market...if you don't like my product, don't buy it or use it. However, you take the view (as do many others, including myself) that Microsoft is, perhaps, morally wrong in doing this. In using a critical update delivery system to check your software license. In installing software that phones home at intervals, so big brother can keep a close eye on you. How do you know that Microsoft isn't keeping a close eye on what programs you have installed? On how much open source software you're using, to feed into their own development work / priorities? This is their legal right, as long as it was hidden in that agreement somewhere, but it is worthy of condemnation. It violates a user's right to privacy, simply because for many users without the knowledge and experience to use Linux, Microsoft has the monopoly product. It's the only game in town. If you have the freedom to criticize this, even though it is perfectly legal, then you have the freedom to criticize Microsoft's product as well. Whether or not we take the option of switching away from Microsoft products, and exercising our free market rights, we are still capable of criticizing the product. You compared an OS to money, but that's not accurate...no one trades windows CDs to pay for things. And if you buy an operating system and someone steals it, I agree...you should be able to prove ownership before you can demand it back. But you should *not* have to prove ownership every single time the company asks for it, on a daily basis, without even knowing that you are doing so. The makers of the things that were stolen from you did not have the right to come into your home and check to see if you legally owned those products, every day. Perhaps it has now become legal for them to do so, because you have signed an agreement that permits them to do this, but I would not allow anyone into my house on a daily basis in that manner, even if they promised not to touch my other possessions or even take note of anything but their own product. And MS has made no such promise, incidentally. In the end, I think the question is not "this is legal, so we can't fault them for it" ...it would be legal for you to legally authorize me into your home to check to see if the shirt I sold you is still legally yours. But I think it is reprehensible for an operating system to be "sold" to end users, when all they are selling is the right to use that operating system on one computer, one set of hardware, with no modifications...in effect, renting. And for a company to use disguised tactics to monitor end users in their use of the software is similarly worthy of criticism. The question is why we are not criticizing and condemning their practices. They can either be forced to change in response to market demands (if you make those demands) or they can continue as they are, because people shrug their shoulders and resign themselves to it. I'm making the switch, actually, and would have done it a while ago if I'd had the time. That's my response. But whether or not users are switching, you *always* have the right to criticize a crappy product or a crappy process that violates your privacy, whether or not it's legally done. Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Ken Callaghan wrote: > While I disagree with the opportunisism that Microsoft utilises to pry > into my computer under the guise of giving me a critical update, I > really don't have a problem with Microsoft jealously guarding their > software. Why shouldn't it be proper to prove you own the software > before you re-install it? Comparing it with ownership of a house is not > the same thing. A house cannot be copied inexpensively to a CD. Why not > compare it to counterfeit currency? We would be annoyed at counterfeit > currency being handed to us in payment of a bill or as change from a > shop principly because I work hard to be able to have genuine money, yet > someone else lives off the rest of us and hands over worthless pieces of > paper to pay the same bills that I have to pay with my hard-earned cash. > > I am not pro-Microsoft,
Re: [DDN] Missing the point .....
Taran, Thinking about Don's comments in disaster management (a field I know *nothing* about, so feel free to shoot me down on this) I'm inclined to think that public image / press / etc becomes an important factor. If this is a closed process, it is open to criticism only in being a closed process...possibly not something that's going to be dragged out into the media every time something happens. However, if this is not a closed process, then you will constantly have reporters digging through the formala, publishing statements after tragedies saying "If the house had been painted green, the firemen would have charged into the blaze to save the woman" ...condemning rescue workers who act within the constraints of the model. This happens anyway, because our media is sensationalist, but if it were linked to a model, a rule-book that says specifically when and how to assess risk, then the result would be an attack on that model itself, no matter what the model was. This would eventually force police forces, fire departments, and other rescue workers to abandon the model completely, because public relations is a *very* big part of their jobs. I remember seeing an article recently that talked about a person who was in an accident and crawled to the doors of the emergency room, where they died because the ER staff were waiting for an ambulance to come and move the victim indoors. The article was extremely sensationalist, stating that the ER staff didn't budge to help the person because it wasn't in their contract. What do I know about ER's? Nothing, except that they made me wait 6 hours in one before giving me three stitches, once. But the "contract" these employees were held to, and the fact that they upheld it, was targeted in this article. If this were a disaster management model, it would crucified in the same way. And police forces and firefighters may have more to lose in PR than an emergency room. Just my $0.02... Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Taran Rampersad wrote: > Don Cameron wrote: >> Taran Rampersad asks: >> >> >>> Perhaps you could tell us who insisted that some of your code be >>> >> proprietary? >> Hi Taran, >> >> Great to hear from you again and I hope you are well - May I focus on >> your >> query separately to the main thread because the question is legitimate >> however I think something of a tangent... Just to offer mild >> correction, I >> did not state that anyone "insisted that some of my code be proprietary", >> what I in fact wrote was: "The formulae was itself proprietary and >> used with >> the permission of the authors. It was a condition placed on me that the >> formulae not be reverse-engineered" - a not-so-subtle difference as >> I'm sure >> you will agree :-) >> >> The reasons for this, in fact the reasons for any code being made >> proprietary are just as demonstrative of the freedoms we all enjoy as >> OSS. >> We all have the freedom to disclose (OSS), we all have the freedom to >> with-hold (proprietary). I will never tell you about the pillow-talk >> between >> myself and my wife late at night :-) This is my freedom to with-hold; my >> freedom for proprietary content. A basic human right. >> OK, the example is a bit over the top... Nonetheless the point is >> valid. > It certainly is both over the top - which makes it valid. So leaving the > door open for that is important - I don't disagree. Personally, the last > thing I want is a committee deciding what I am too fragile to know > about, but then again - my perspective is over the top. And of course, > that makes it valid as well. > > Secret formulas like this bother me because they are secret. I've done > triage. I've had to make those decisions. I'm not sure that any formula > would cover the scope of what needs to be done, and I'm a firm believer > in transparency and addressing issues... so in your example, while I > understand the point related to people becoming upset about the decision > making algorithm... I find it just a bit more disturbing. Especially > when it comes to human lives. My problem isn't that it is what it is, my > problem is that I don't have any visibility into what it actually is. > > It's quite similar to profiling. It's done. The public whines about it > now and then. But in general, even the people who this works against > don't say much. So, yes, I see your point, but I believe that people are > strong enough to bear visibility into such things - and if they aren't, > they can become
Re: [DDN] Missing the point .....
Don, Do you feel that this is mostly a one-way flow, i.e. that open source generally benefits from the proprietary world? While I see similarities, I'm not sure I consider most of them improvements. Matching Open Office's layout to MS applications may have been a marketing decision that has paid off in the end, just as matching many Linux distro's initial GUI to Mac OS or Windows may have helped to gain converts. But there seem to be numerous examples that move in the opposite direction. I believe Apache is one of them. And breaking away from the proprietary models can bring major advantages...such as the apt-get system, which far outshines Microsoft's exe-based application installation system or even OS X's "unpack and drag this into your applications folder" system. I believe software benefits from the existence of other software and already-developed models, whether proprietary or not. The open source world benefits from proprietary software not as a function of its propriety, but it's existence. If Microsoft open sourced Office, then Open Office would still have benefited from it (probably more). The argument that the proprietary world benefits the open source world is circumstantial...it is a benefit because it is there, not because it is proprietary. If it weren't there, and other open source alternatives were there instead, then open source developers would benefit from those models instead. I certainly don't see this as a debt open source developers owe to the proprietary world...my general feeling is that all developers benefit from the work of other developers. Microsoft's practice of swallowing competitors whole by integrating carbon copies of their products into their operating system is a symptom of this (though it would be nice if they did a better job with their carbon copies...cough, internet explorer, cough). Similarly, the open source world doesn't always get it right, either...I can't tell you how many times I've gone nuts dealing with GIMP's interface. I honestly prefer Photoshop, but since I can't afford it, GIMP's what I have running at home now. Lastly, I've never had a problem with the term evangelist, so I suppose it's a personal preference. I've been a Drupalvangelist for almost a year now. Still, "activist" or "advocate" may be more politically correct. Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Don Cameron wrote: > Tom thanks for your considered reply to some of these points. In recognition > that discussion on software methodologies can degrade to flames, in > continuing may I acknowledge your views and beliefs. The topic can be > discussed without flames when we keep this intelligence within the > discussion. > > The term "Open Source Evangelist" (Wikipedia ref: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_evangelist) has common use however > my apologies if you find the term misleading; activist if you prefer. I > sense we are both activists. Evangelism becomes a descriptor only when > activism limits itself to a single methodology within an ideology. As a > technology activist I am free to be more expansive than this - There are > many software development methodologies offering benefit - some labelled as > OSS, some as Proprietary Freeware, others as Commercial Code (OSS or > Proprietary). Whatever works for a given scenario and circumstance. What we > must avoid are false claims by or concerning any or all of the above. > Considered analysis means placing ourselves above the "cat and mouse" > marketing game - to look through the hype and seek truth. > > Hence my introduction to this thread was simply to highlight how the "fact" > as written and promoted to our DDN membership is really not as factual as > portrayed... To state that: "Proprietary software is written by companies > with the primary goal to satisfy shareholders aspirations by increasing > market share"... Is not true of all circumstances; is not factual in all > circumstances. This is a motherhood statement designed to project a negative > image of a competing methodology. A marketing ploy. Sometimes true; often > false. > > In closing a brief note on software development and innovation - My earlier > comments on Open Office were not directed at innovative feature development, > limited yet important nonetheless - rather it was directed at the far more > complicated process of core application development. That Open Office > "looks" identical to Microsoft Office is no coincidence. Menu look and > hierarchy's, ontology's, most of the core features of Open Office are direct > copies of Microsoft Office. The reason OO i
Re: [DDN] Missing the point .....
Tom, A very well articulated post...thanks. While there is an ideological basis for preferring open source software over proprietary software, the problem I encounter in these discussions is that people will generally concede every point you've made, and then say "but, I need something that's industry standard so my trainees can get jobs". I heard exactly this point of view at a community meeting on the west side of Chicago recently. A well-educated, technically trained (she has an A+ certification and has been working as an independent tech consultant for some time now) said that open source is great and the world may change someday, but what we need is training in the tools that will get our community jobs *now* ...businesses want someone who knows Word and Excel, not Linux, etc. This is incorrect, but it is a generally held point of view that seems to sidestep your entire argument by saying that the proprietary world owns / controls everything, and to function in this society we must become participants on proprietary culture. I believe the challenge is not just in making people familiar with the culture and philosophy of open source, but the practicality and functionality of it. Most of these people who use the "jobs require MS Word" argument aren't aware that most websites run on open source platforms with proven reliability and security track records. I'd go one step further and say that while an employer may even *state* that an applicant must know Microsoft Word and Excel, what he *means* is that the applicant must know word processing and spreadsheets. It is the skill you are being hired for, not the names you drop. (And if we're playing the name dropping game, incidentally, dropping "Linux" tends to certify you as a techie much faster than "I can use XP Pro".) In addition, I have yet to meet someone who was trained in Linux and Open Office who could not use a Windows machine in a work environment. If a business chooses to use proprietary software, that is their choice, but it *does not* dictate the tool that a job applicant uses in their training. Whether an applicant learns to use Excel or an open source alternative, what they have learned is how to use a spreadsheet. Figuring out how things are done on the package that your employer happens to use, if this is different from the one you happened to use, is trivial. And it really is. If you know your way around Open Office, does it truly take you days to figure out MS Word, or vice versa? Separate the tool from the skill. No writer was hired because of the brand of pen he knew how to use, or the color of paper he was trained to write on. The guy who fixes my car (when I'm rich, and have a car) will be someone I choose based on his ability to work on cars, not the brand of wrench he chooses to buy. So, unpleasant though it may be, this discussion (whether on this list or in person with a nonprofit or a friend) will have to address the effectiveness of the tool for the job at hand (hence the debate on security, stability, speed, etc, etc). The ideological differences between the two become a deciding factor only once people have accepted that open source is a viable alternative, and are willing to give it some consideration. Getting to that point is the difficult part. The ideology of open source may be more suited to a community organization than a proprietary solution, but until I can demonstrate that the open source solution offers more functionality, better security, more flexibility, or in some other sense makes a better business case, no one will adopt it. Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Tom Brough wrote: > Much that I hate to open old wounds, but I am compelled by my > convictions to write on the subject of proprietary vs free software. > > I think the arguments put forward before have missed some key points. > > Firstly Im not interested in my os is better / faster / more stable / > less buggy / more powerful ... than your os arguments. For one thing > these arguments are a pointless waste of time that polarize and paralyze > good people who should have better things to do (see Fact 3). > > What I am interested in is what ICT technology servers a community best. > > We have come to a fork in the road, some will want to take one route and > other will want to take another, but consider this carefully before you > choose. > > Fact 1: Proprietary software is written by companies with the primary > goal to satisfy shareholders aspirations by increasing market share. > Another way of saying they have a profit motive. > > Fact 2: Free software and particularly GNU licensed software is written > by programmers who (for the most part) wish to provide a better product > (freely) to the
Re: [DDN] Punishing Students for Extracurricular Online Activities: Crossing the Line?
Hello all, While I think these schools are crossing the line, it does open the question of who is responsible for supervising children when they're out of school. It's been said a couple of times that parents or the children themselves are responsible, not the school...but this is too superficial a statement. The reality is that many parents are not digitally literate, and could not monitor their children's online activities if they wanted to. I know some great parents, who are really involved in their children's lives and extremely "strict" by conventional standards, who simply don't have the skills / resources to monitor their children's online activities. A parent who can check email and once browsed a couple of websites is *not* skilled enough to navigate MySpace accounts, IM logs, and content management / publishing systems...and many parents aren't even at the email level yet. Illinois just cut back funding for community technology centers in a fairly big way. Given that community digital literacy initiatives are struggling to keep their doors open, we can't exactly place the responsibility there and say hey, go educate every Illinois parent on how to be responsible for their children online. Or rather, we could, if we backed it up with some serious funding, which doesn't look like it's going to happen this year. In a great many aspects of our society / culture, we've decided that though it would be ideal if parents could take on the responsibility of oversight, it is more prudent and realistic for the public education system to do so. Driving is a great example. Sure, it'd be great if parents taught their children how to drive (that was how I learned, after all) but we've decided, for whatever reason, that it's practical to offer driving instruction through our public education system as well. Parents are still free to become involved as they see fit, and even to control their children's driving as they see fit, but there exists a system of education through the schools that is available if it is needed. In many states, it's compulsory. Similarly, we need some movement to make internet literacy a part of the public education system. Without it, we're going to have a finger pointing session where parents blame the schools and schools blame the parent, and kids are pretty much free to put themselves at risk however they feel like. Oh, wait...we're at that stage already. This move by Illinois schools not only crosses the line, it is a movement in entirely the wrong direction. A school's responsibility is not to dictate terms to a child or provide constant monitoring. The responsibility is education. This means providing adequate internet literacy education as part of public schooling, so that children know exactly what they can or cannot post on the internet. And the hard truth is that children *can* post content on the internet, legally, that shows their school in a bad light. It's freedom of speech, and protected. Similarly, they're free to post material that is "inappropriate" in their institution, simply because they are posting outside of their institution. If a school does not allow a student exercising those rights to take part in extracurricular activities, then I would think the school is breaking the law by discriminating against a student who chooses to exercise constitutionally protected rights. More worrying is the example that is being set. Once again, we're telling kids that schools are authoritarian institutions seeking to govern and control everything they do, inside or outside their institutions, which simply begs for new innovations to circumvent those restrictions. Wouldn't it be better if kids were trying to learn as much technology stuff from their teachers as possible? I'd much rather see students demanding courses in IT security than trying to figure out how to use a proxy server to get to MySpace, or how to post content anonymously to keep the school from booting them off the basketball team. Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Peter S. Lopez de Aztlan wrote: > Andy Carvin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > Last week, an Illinois school district adopted a new policy towards student > online activities that’s already stirring up a lot of controversy. All > students in the Libertyville-Vernon Hills Area High School District 128 > participating in extracurricular activities will now have to sign a pledge > saying they will not post inappropriate content on > the Internet or they will face disciplinary action. The catch, though, is > that the pledge also applies to online activities done _outside_ of school. > > I've just written an analysis of the
Re: [DDN] Microsoft: Open source 'not reliable or dependable'
The problem with government funded research, like all other research, is that I do not have access to the full research project and what exactly was studied. If you wish to challenge facts based on these studies (well, you call them misstatements instead of facts), then you must answer specific questions, or those facts are meaningless. I will give you an example...someone mentioned in one of the responses to this that Windows, as-is, comes with a certain set of applications. Similarly, Linux distributions come with a certain set of applications. Some have more than others. So, in these studies, which included applications did they consider? If I took every application available in the apt-get universe for Debian / Ubuntu and installed them all, I'd probably have a great deal more vulnerabilities there than on my XP box. On the other hand, installing MS Office or just Outlook significantly increases the number of security vulnerabilities a Windows machine has (so many of my critical updates concern members of the Office family). It may be argued (and often is) that Windows by itself is crippled. A fair comparison would be to look at what the Linux distros (and which distros are we talking about?) have included by default, and then install the commercially popular equivalents for Windows, so we're comparing apples to apples. Were these included in the research study you mentioned? Was the Windows machine in the study configured to turn off things like the sysadmin messenger service, or were these left on? Without knowing these things, the study is meaningless. Just as it is meaningless to give a Linux operating system a reliability or security score without mentioning which distro(s) were tested and how they were configured / which applications were installed. I'm not bashing Windows so much as pointing out that you should question your steadfast reliance on these studies. A government study undertaken by a pro-Microsoft organization, or even a non-biased organization that doesn't have a great deal of open source expertise, simply isn't going to produce reliable results. When statistical research is so easily skewed, and no original statistics or even use-cases are published, the studies are meaningless. We are left relying only on real-world experience, which you dismiss as anecdotal. To move this away from the Linux vs. Windows argument, I'll ask you another question: Is it or is it not true that most websites today are running on an open source platform (Apache)? If this is the case, then I will grant you that the desktop revolution may have been based on the Windows operating system and not on Unix if you will grant me that the entire internet as we know it came about as a result of open source software, not proprietary vendors. Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Executive Director wrote: > I guess that I will believe government funded research over anecdotal > evidence, but that's just me. > Believe whatever you like, but I have and will continue to challenge > misstatements of facts, whenever or wherever. > > Bash Windows all you like, but the vision of a common interface of Windows, > not Unix, is what has caused the PC revolution we all benefit from today. > > " "CERT's report did not include figures for how quickly vulnerabilities are > patched once they are discovered. " > > See my later email on the Forester research. > > Mike > > Michael F. Pitsch > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -----Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave A. > Chakrabarti > Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 10:20 AM > To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group > Subject: Re: [DDN] Microsoft: Open source 'not reliable or dependable' > > Mike, > > I find this hard to believe, given how frequently Windows has to patch > vulnerabilities. Last year their patches often resulted in computers being > rendered unuseable. I had a client who could no longer access her Windows > login screen, requiring an extensive support session at her home to fix. I > assumed it was a virus, but found out later it was a Windows patch, > automatically downloaded and installed (she had automatic updates turned on, > as Microsoft recommends). I'm also under the impression that most of the > websites in the world are currently hosted on open source platforms > (Apache). These facts are also a simple Google away. > > If open source products truly "appeared" more secure only because so few > people are using it on the desktop, then it would also "appear" > incredibly insecure in the corporate server environment, where it actually > makes up a more significant chunk of the market th
Re: [DDN] Microsoft: Open source 'not reliable or dependable'
Mike, I find this hard to believe, given how frequently Windows has to patch vulnerabilities. Last year their patches often resulted in computers being rendered unuseable. I had a client who could no longer access her Windows login screen, requiring an extensive support session at her home to fix. I assumed it was a virus, but found out later it was a Windows patch, automatically downloaded and installed (she had automatic updates turned on, as Microsoft recommends). I'm also under the impression that most of the websites in the world are currently hosted on open source platforms (Apache). These facts are also a simple Google away. If open source products truly "appeared" more secure only because so few people are using it on the desktop, then it would also "appear" incredibly insecure in the corporate server environment, where it actually makes up a more significant chunk of the market than Microsoft products. Websites would be constantly going down because of Apache vulnerabilities, and we'd all be running to Microsoft for salvation. Facts can be distorted in any direction. The media exists to sell a product (their writing) and will cater to their target audience. Media outlets that are pro- open source will tell you Linux is incredibly user friendly, MS-friendly organizations will tell you that open source is less stable, less commercially reliable, has no support, etc. I'd take neither at face value. In my own use, I've found that some open source operating systems make it incredibly difficult to do things that I'm used to Windows doing automatically (mounting a hard drive) until you learn how the system expects you to work; I also found that some, like Debian, have application installation processes that are *much* more advanced and user-friendly than anything in Windows. As a website developer, I've come to prefer open source content management systems for their flexibility and their community support, which I find more robust than proprietary solutions. In addition, from the article you linked: "CERT's report did not include figures for how quickly vulnerabilities are patched once they are discovered. According to security firm Secunia, 124 of its security advisories relate to flaws in Windows XP Professional, of which 29 are unpatched — which gives it a lands Microsoft's operating system with a "Highly Critical" security rating. In contrast, Red Hat 9 is affected by 99 Secunia warnings, but only one of these flaws has not been patched by Red Hat. SuSE Linux Enterprise Server 9 is covered in 91 advisories, but every one has been patched by the vendor. Both products get a 'Not Critical' rating." This seems to support Taran's comment that Windows needs to get its act together if it wants to deliver a more serious contender. From everything I've heard, VISTA is bloated enough to wipe out any of the older systems that the community technology world thrives on, which isn't a good sign. The fact that I can install current versions of open source operating systems on much older hardware and still produce useable machines makes Windows seem very inflexible/unscaleable by comparison. Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Executive Director wrote: > " That said, I do wish Microsoft luck in releasing anything soon, and I > certainly hope that whatever they release doesn't permit the continued > plague of flaws and vulnerabilities that the general population of the world > has become familiar with. " > > This opinion of course ignores the fact that that there are more > vulnerabilities in Linux/Unix than in Windows. > > "The US Government has reported that fewer vulnerabilities were found in > Windows than in Linux/Unix operating systems in 2005." > http://news.zdnet.co.uk/0,39020330,39245873,00.htm > > Opinions need to be supported to have any value. When you set personal bias > aside, facts are a simple google away. > > Mike > > > Michael F. Pitsch > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Taran Rampersad > Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 2:26 PM > To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group > Subject: Re: [DDN] Microsoft: Open source 'not reliable or dependable' > > Fouad Riaz Bajwa wrote: >> Microsoft: Open source 'not reliable or dependable' >> View the complete story at: >> http://news.com.com/Microsoft+Open+source+not+reliable+or+dependable/2 >> 100-73 >> 44_3-6074237.html?tag=nefd.pulse >> >> A senior Microsoft executive told a BBC documentary that people should >> use commercial software if they're looking for stabili
Re: [DDN] Cell-phone carrying students
Can we divide this into two subject lines? "Cell-phone carrying students" and "Cell phone recycling" perhaps? While I think the cell phone has tremendous potential as an educational tool, I also think there are other factors affecting cell phone use. In the school where my girlfriend teaches a theatre program, there are rules against cell phone use. The teachers try (with varying levels of strictness) to make students conform to these rules. However, they are rarely successful. Students use cell phones continuously, and are often text messaging or playing games during class, when they are intended to be interacting with instructors and other students. Cellular phones present a discipline issue, because there is no easy way to know if the student is doing something educational or not, or if the activity is appropriate for the classroom or not. Similarly, there seems little way to prevent disrespectful or indisciplined cell phone use, since many schools are having a hard time doing that now, even with complete cell phone bans. So the question isn't the educational uses of the cell phone. We can make a million arguments for how the cell phone could be a pivotal tool in a child's education, and even educators who agree with us will refuse to budge on this. The question that needs to be addressed is not a technology question, but a pedagogical question: how do we instill discipline in the children being educated so that cell phones are used appropriately? I'm sure many educators agree that cell phones may make children safer (note: I got along fine without one during my childhood, and I'm not sure I buy this argument), though some educators might be downplaying this in favor of a cell phone ban. And if children had cell phones in their pockets that they never took out except in an emergency, schools wouldn't have a problem with it. On the other hand, I've seen inner city Chicago public schools where kids could care less about cell phone rules. I've also attended community college classes where a student would answer their phone in class, while the professor was talking, and then get up and walk out while laughing and talking with the friend who'd called, while the professor shut up and waited for the interruption to end before continuing. When I mentioned that at the liberal arts college I had attended previously, if a student had been that rude they would probably have been asked to leave the class permanently, the professor replied that at least this student walked out to finish the conversation...some others simply continue talking at their seats. That's the problem. That level of indiscipline (at the level of indecency / rudeness) is the result of ineffective policies on cell phone use during several years of public schooling. An answer to this has to address the discipline issue involved, not just the positive implications of cell phone possession. I wish I had an answer to the discipline questions...I can only raise them and hope an experienced educator can suggest a solution? Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Linda Ullah wrote: Back on topic. It seems to me that the cell phone can be used as a viable educational tool. New ones are coming out with many of the same capabilities that that PDAs and MP3 players have. Most, these days, have cameras that can be used to capture information that can be used in the classroom. The text messaging feature can be used in the same way as an IM to have students work collaboratively and share information to be learned. I can see wonderful potential for the cell phone instructionally if we can think out of the box and work on curriculum development and instructional strategies that include the cell phone in the educational environment (not use the 4 walls we call a classroom). Linda Ullah Foothill College Krause Center for Innovation 12345 El Monte Rd. Los Altos Hills, CA 94022 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.foothill.edu/kci On May 10, 2006, at 5:55 AM, Audrey Borus wrote: Slightly off topic, but can anyone recommend a good way to recycle an old cell? It seems like a horrible waste to just trash it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Carvin Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 1:37 PM To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group Subject: [DDN] should students carry cell phones in the classroom? Hi everyone, I've posted a blog entry seeking feedback from educators about the current debate in NYC over whether students should be allowed to carry cell phones in the classroom. Leading policymakers argue that cell phones are a distraction, while parents and community leaders say they're a necessity because of safety concerns. What do you think? You can read mor
Re: [DDN] blocking newspapers and TV
Hi Don, others, Does registration automatically = spam? I'd probably agree that it does, to some extent...but spam filtering is a necessity in today's internet anyway, so this cost may be unavoidable. For your school, why not allow teachers / students to register using non-school email addresses? There are differences in how internet policies are shaped. The policy you've outlined seems to be based on some well thought-out arguments; other schools' policies do not. There are schools Andy Carvin has encountered which do not allow access to his blog, or to MySpace, or to many other sites. This level of filtering rivals AOL's decision to filter out all email content critical of AOL. At some point, filtering spam and protecting users becomes so invasive that we're actually filtering out useful content. I would argue that Andy's blog, for example, has content that may be of use to an educator. If this is the case, for even *one* website, we've gone too far, and our filtering is invasive. MySpace is an example of one of these sites. Some members of this listed have posted that MySpace makes up such a large percentage of their bandwidth use that they've banned access to it. I'm not sure where I stand on this, but my initial reaction is that MySpace is an example of the direction the internet is moving. Many of your students simply would not be so motivated about the internet without it, and would not have the skills they have. Also, restricting access to MySpace is to undervalue it and underestimate it; it can be justified by making the argument that there is not enough educational value in MySpace for it to be worth the bandwidth or the time. That's a policy-level problem. MySpace is a phenomena that pervades teen life in the United States and elsewhere in the world. Social Networking is one of the hot topics in web 2.0 development / discussions. To deny this is to turn a blind eye to one of the directions our internet is moving in. I would argue that MySpace is a constant...whether or not schools choose to engage it, MySpace will be a part of a significant (and rising) number of the children under your care. MySpace also represents several very well documented risks to those children, as does the internet in general. To turn away from this is to turn away from your responsibility as an educator. Since a school is not in a position to ban MySpace (only to ban it from school, which doesn't address MySpace use from other locations) we don't have the option of turning away from the problem and pretending it doesn't exist, even if we would find it more convenient to do so. Every single time a teen acts inappropriately or unsafely on MySpace, we've failed as a society and a culture in our educational policies. We can point the finger at the parents, but the truth of the matter is that parents are all too often far behind their children in technological awareness. A parent who still types in caps is hardly in a position to teach netiquette. The public education system seems to be the only institution that has the resources, infrastructure, and expertise to meaningfully educate children in this regard. Digital literacy programs, as a result, need rising budgets and more innovative programs to succeed. If a lack of resources is forcing public institutions to abandon some of these responsibilities, then some reform is required. That's where my thought processes end, because I don't know how to address the problem of a lack of resources in the educational system. If a school says that this is not their responsibility, I believe they are incorrect. If a school says that this is and should be their responsibility, but they don't have the funding to train a teacher and run the class, then I'm not sure what to recommend...educational reform (or even change) always seems to come with a price tag, and that price tag seems to be a prohibitive obstacle. Perhaps foundation and corporate funding specifically for digital literacy training in schools, conducted internally or by a local community technology center, may enable an answer? Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Don Cameron wrote: Following this thread it's clear Jayne and Dave make excellent points about the need to re-educate educators in 'net inclusion... Nonetheless I think some 'net activists can at times be a bit harsh on our schools, and perhaps not accepting that educators often have a very good handle on the reality of 'net inclusion... Often better than some activists. We should have little doubt the school referenced by the comment "we are blocked from registering on a newspaper or TV site due to school policies", is in fact very aware of the commercial nature
Re: [DDN] blocking newspapers and TV
For anyone entering into this debate with a school (or other) official, I would make an analogy between internet use and driving. Driving is the leading cause of teen death in the US, and has been described by some as an epidemic...one which no one aknowledges or discusses. The internet, by comparison, causes few teen deaths. However, the schools have refused to turn their backs on driving, instead embracing driver's education as a program in every state, as far as I know. Why? Presumably because it is expected that, in the United States, most teenagers are going to want to drive, and (therefore) are going to drive, whether the school gives its approval or not. Instead of trying to control their intent to drive, schools have decided as a matter of policy to develop programming in driver's education to make the learning process controlled and safe(r). The internet is the same sort of beast. Teens are actively involved in it. It poses less risk than driving, though admittedly different risks. It poses tremendous potential for their careers and their lives in general. It is a necessity. It something that engages them but also something that they contribute to and actively influence the development of. In every respect, the case for internet education as a school responsibility seems to outweigh the case for driver's ed. The difference is that adults all drive, and drive better than teens. Adults, on the other hand, are not always at the forefront of technological innovation. It is necessary to bridge this particular digital divide in terms that school teachers and administrators can understand. Making a case for the internet as relevant, necessary, and having tremendous potential in children's lives is a good first step. Offering volunteer-based solutions can only succeed once the administration concerned realizes the need for the solution. Dave. ------- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- J Cravens wrote: Marie Godfrey wrote >>a teacher from New York...couldn't access the essay through regular channels because "we are blocked from registering on a newspaper or TV site due to school policies"... How can we to change such policies? As I wrote back in April 19 here on the digital divide network, I really think that countering these practices is going to take *offline*, face-to-face efforts to change the minds of school officials and parents, and volunteers willing to help schools implement and sustain alternative approaches. Recruiting local people, including parents, who understand online safety and ways to address online safety concerns, to visit onsite, face-to-face, with school administrators is a very effective, reassuring way to change these draconian policies.Volunteers offering their services to help schools create effective online safety programs that would be an alternative to simply banning school site users from registering on newspaper or TV sites would be particularly appealing. As I noted early, these kinds of misguided moves by the school administrators aren't being done out of mean-spiritedness -- they are being done out of fear, and out of seeing an easy, cost-effectiv solution to online safety concerns. In the school's mind, they don't have the time, resources and expertise to do anything else. A low-tech, non-confrontational approach that offers alternatives would probably change the minds of lot more school administrators than just an online campaign. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
[DDN] [Net Neutrality] Surprises
Hi all, Please excuse the cross-posting, to anyone who gets this twice. I recently visited savetheinternet.com to see how things were going in the current political fight to save net neutrality. I was somewhat surprised to see that Bobby Rush supports Barton's Bill to stifle net neutrality, and voted against the Markey Ammendment. Ok, so anyone can sell out, I suppose. What surprised me even more was the response I got when I called in to let them know where I stood on this issue. The staffer who answered the phone said that he wasn't sure if I understood the bill properly, but that there was an immensely large section of his constituency that demanded lower cable prices, and this was why it was imperative that the Barton bill be supported. That there was an "overwhelming demand" for this bill from his constituents. They're billing this as a *community led* initiative. A grassroots response to rising cable costs. I posed a question to the staffer I was speaking with. If Comcast is allowed to block all VOIP calls except their own, then how does this lower my bills? Presumably by allowing Comcast to recover expenses from Sunrocket / Lingo / Vonage / etc while lowering their VOIP service costs. I asked how this could guarantee a more competitive market between Comcast's VOIP service and other players, and if there was a guarantee that, given this freedom, Comcast would offer a better product at a lower price. I mentioned that Comcast's VOIP service now costs $50 a month, with less features than my Sunrocket account at $16 per month. He had no response. He similarly had no response when I asked him how SBC's being able to charge Google for providing search services helps consumers, or a response to the idea of Google being double-billed (since they pay for their upstream bandwidth anyway...they're certainly not using anyone's "pipes for free"). He took down my name and address, and said they had a letter they could send out to me with more information on this. Savetheinternet.com is right. More and more political figures are getting nervous on the net neutrality issue as people are sitting up and taking notice. The general public doesn't want a corporate controlled internet. The only way to keep it from happening is to have people voice their thoughts on this to every single political figure involved. Congratulate the ones who're on the right side, make (public) voodoo dolls for the ones who aren't. I'm wondering if CTCs could run a "write to your legislator" campaign which took a few minutes to draft a letter which the CTC would then collect and mail to a Congressman, Representative, Senator, etc. A form letter on the projector / board, with a discussion beforehand to educate students on what is at stake here. Not a lobbying action or something intended to influence voting or anything along those lines...just a civic engagement exercise on an important issue. My VISTA contract actually prevents me from lobbying, and I'm sure most of our funding sources won't support lobbying either, but a civic engagement exercise with political engagement as a goal should be something worth working towards. Stationary and mailing costs would be minimal (a few cents per individual) so I'd think this is a practical way to engage communities. I'm also told that actual physical letters are *much* more effective than emails, so the easy way out of setting up an email server actually isn't that effective. An old-fashioned letter writing campaign could actually accomplish a lot more. Thoughts on this idea? Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
[DDN] Net Neutrality and AOL ...It Begins
e giving an entity with money total control over what we see, hear, and say online. To think that this will not eventually affect how we think is naive. Would we think Osama Bin Laden was so terrible if this had been the case a decade ago? What if he'd had more money than the Bushes and all we saw when we got online was pro-Islamic propaganda, with access to Myspace cut off in favor of OsamaSpace? What would our kids grow up thinking? Are political lines going to be drawn based on which ISP we use? So what we do? I'm hoping wiser minds than mine will chime in at this point (from non AOL accounts) and give me some suggestions. I, for one, am planning on contacting the few people I know who do use AOL, offline, and explaining to them why I think it's time they switched email accounts...no matter how long they've used it, or how attached they are to it. I'm cc'ing a few others on this list who might have something valuable to contribute to this dialog...please excuse the cross-posting. My sympathies to whoever's managing the bounces on these mailing lists, especially if we have a lot of subscribers from AOL accounts. How do we stop the internet from fragmenting? Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] $100 laptop includes WiFi
Lisa, I would agree with you, except for one thing: this isn't a $100 laptop. It's a project requiring a minimum investment by a government in the millions of dollars. For a third world nation, this is a case where the sheer amount of the investment is overwhelming. It encourages the model of "throwing technology at the problem" that has been at the basis for so many unsuccessful community technology programs. I met with some people at a local YMCA here in Chicago recently, and was told that they had closed down their community technology initiatives because the programs were so unsuccessful, despite enormous investments in technology infrastructure. Despite the fact that he could name the technology coordinator in charge of the unsuccessful project, the person I was speaking with had no idea what community outreach work was done to support the project, or what level of curriculum development was planned. He was confused...we put this much money into all these nice shiny new computers, he seemed to be saying, and nothing great really happened as a result. When the project is billed as a panacea for bridging the digital divide, it is harmful. When the project requires a minimum investment so massive that it directly undermines any efforts to provide infrastructure and support services, it's just a quick way to waste money in a third world economy. No one's saying hey, there's a minimum investment of a couple of hundred million rupees, and then several times that much required in infrastructure, support, teacher training, etc, but if we do all that, we'll have a revolution in the Indian digital literacy situation. The marketing hype is to take one small piece of that, require a massive investment to *guarantee* the project's profitability, and then deploy it; leaving the rest in the hands of local governments. These governments, have been so encouraged to once again think of technology as the answer instead of the one tool in a complete solution, are thus put in a position to fail. And to fail expensively. If Dell was shipping laptops in India for $100, this would be an altogether different discussion. And I agree that the laptops currently in the Indian market are extremely useful without an existing mesh network. I just don't buy in to the hype of this particular project. Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Lisa Thurston wrote: I hear the criticisms of the $100 laptop program and I agree these are somewhat justified, but just couldn't let these two emails pass without response! Let's not forget that it's not like these laptops will be useless without any wireless infrastructure -- or even without the Internet. I don't think we should automatically assume wireless connectively is a strict precondition of using the Negroponte laptops effectively. Having the laptop in hand can also act as a motivator to provide more momentum to build the necessary infrastructure to have wireless connectivity. And let's face it -- many of us have wireless-enabled laptops but can't use them everywhere. Particularly, if you live in Australia you are ready to openly acknowlegde that there is simply never going to be wireless connectivity across broad swathes of rural/remote land -- of the 802.111xvariety anyway. There is simply not the demand. There is not even widespread wireless meshing in the major cities yet -- this doesn't stop our laptops still being mighty useful though. I don't see this as a chicken before the egg scenario. Nor do I see how Moore's law should apply just because the laptop is more advanced -- at least initially -- than its surrounding infrastructure. Regards Lisa That is what makes this whole thing so interesting for me. Normally we would talk about the infrastructure first ... I am just being sarcastic of course. As I recalled countries such as Brazil, China and Nigeria (I could be wrong about the name of the countries) already put in order for 100millions laptop. Delivery time as I understand is sometime before the end of this year. Perhaps the chicken would come before the eggs? Taran Rampersad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It's all a very good idea if there is an infrastructure for the wireless to connect to. The money for those laptops could be spent on infrastructure so that there is actually something to connect to, instead of something that will be outdated in one evolution of Moore's Law... 18 months. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing
Re: [DDN] $100 laptop includes WiFi
I think the problem is that the chicken can't come before these eggs. I was at the national wireless summit in St. Charles last weekend, and something I heard over and over is that (in the United States) equipment isn't really the problem...even the "last mile" solutions that everyone's talking about aren't really the problem. The problem is the backhaul, and the bandwidth costs. If there's no cheap, reliable way to get upstream bandwidth, projects are choked off. In a developing nation, that problem is multiplied because backhaul / upstream bandwidth is much more expensive. Then the problem is compounded by lack of content (especially locally created content in the vernacular) and lack of training. Arun Mehta spoke last weekend to point out the majority of the leaders in the community wireless movement are white North Americans or Europeans, and said we need to think about developing systems to share our knowledge to educate a generation of leaders from the developing world. Some of these issues are actually going to be more expensive to address than the actual hardware...though it's much, much easier to market yourself if you're the guy selling the hardware. "One laptop per child" is a catchier slogan than "one Mb upstream bandwidth per child" or "one trained instructor for 20 children" etc, even though some of those goals might be actually be more challenging (and more worthwhile) to work towards. Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Cindy Lemcke-Hoong wrote: Hello Taran, That is what makes this whole thing so interesting for me. Normally we would talk about the infrastructure first ... I am just being sarcastic of course. As I recalled countries such as Brazil, China and Nigeria (I could be wrong about the name of the countries) already put in order for 100millions laptop. Delivery time as I understand is sometime before the end of this year. Perhaps the chicken would come before the eggs? Taran Rampersad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It's all a very good idea if there is an infrastructure for the wireless to connect to. The money for those laptops could be spent on infrastructure so that there is actually something to connect to, instead of something that will be outdated in one evolution of Moore's Law... 18 months. Cindy Lemcke-Hoong wrote: Here is an followed-up article on the $100 laptop for every child. I found it on the OpenSpectrum.info website. http://www.volweb.cz/horvitz/os-info/news-feb06-017.html The interesting part of the news, for me, is the addition of WiFi, and this sentence below. Some of Negroponte's MIT associates are also following him to his OLPC non-profit to assist, which speaks even more highly of this highly-regarded initiative. Cindy [EMAIL PROTECTED] = [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] $100 laptop includes WiFi
The ability to mesh network was included in this laptop's specs from the beginning, if I remember correctly. We've discussed this topic to death...I really don't see anything very new in Negropointe's work so far. I'll be more inclined to think well of the project if it's implemented in a suitable fashion...with decent levels of support (hardware, software, and networking), wireless internet infrastructure, internet backhaul equipment and upstream bandwidth procurement at affordable costs (and paid by whom?), initiatives to train and support teachers and content creators in developing nations, etc. Otherwise, I don't really see the point. Haven't generations of experiences proven that throwing technology at a problem accomplishes nothing? This project seems to allocate an undue amount of funding towards technology, with little or no thought for all of the other factors that create a successful community technology movement. Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Cindy Lemcke-Hoong wrote: Here is an followed-up article on the $100 laptop for every child. I found it on the OpenSpectrum.info website. http://www.volweb.cz/horvitz/os-info/news-feb06-017.html The interesting part of the news, for me, is the addition of WiFi, and this sentence below. Some of Negroponte's MIT associates are also following him to his OLPC non-profit to assist, which speaks even more highly of this highly-regarded initiative. Cindy [EMAIL PROTECTED] = [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] More explanation of Planning Help Needed
Hi Mark, I actually saw a demonstration of a high tech trailer this weekend at the Wifi Summit that you might want to base some ideas off. The idea was to build a regular trailer with a satellite uplink connection, router, and multiple wireless internet access points. This turned into something you could pull with a regular car that would provide internet connections anywhere, in a variety of forms. After hearing some first-hand accounts of post-Katrina early response efforts, I think telecommunications should be on your list. Having the ability to use a satellite uplink from your vehicle with wireless internet then available over a certain area (or, using a directional antenna, to a specific point) coupled with VOIP and other services would allow the unit to immediately restore communications to an area. From parking to a stable connection took ~7 minutes on the demonstration I saw, so I'm really talking about an immediate communications solution which pretty much goes anywhere. Just a thought. Though satellite-based broadband isn't cheap, it's a feature you might find crucial. Dave. ------- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Mark Warnick wrote: Dear DDN Members, I guess I should give more of a definition of what we are doing, and the reason I am looking for advice. The Mobile Command Center (MCC) is multi-disciplined, for use by any (and multiple) first responders during any emergency to increase unity of command. The one we will first use, could be a prototype for making many more of the MCC's, strategically placed around the country. Currently we are using a bus that was originally used as a mobile lab for a government entity. It was originally a 70 (or so) passenger Bluebird bus. In it's current form it has a conference area, cabinets, and a lot of counter space. It has air and gas monitors on the exterior, and a generator wired in throughout the bus. When I say it that it will be multiply disciplined, I am talking of all of the disciplines of first responders, including but not limited to; Fire/Rescue Pre-hospital Hospital Law Enforcement Public Works Public Health Emergency Managers HazMat Public Officials Citizen Volunteers Possibly others In the MCC will be a server (small for storing files) 5 or more possible work stations (possibly laptops) the fold up conference table (large enough for 8, possibly more) and some white boards in strategic places. There will also be a small communications center with a multiple band mobile communications kit, to reach all bandwidths necessary for multiple communications (interoperability). Connected to the outside of the bus will be a roll out awning so that when weather permits, there can be sub sectors that can work from the outside on folding tables and chairs (plenty of storage under the bus) and still be connected. There will be a connection on the outside of the bus so a hub can be plugged in and multiple port hubs set up. We are also considering so much more, but our sticking point is the computer set up. We are almost positive that we will use a satellite for connectivity. All computers will be tied into one printer. Any suggestions are always welcome! Several have sent e-mails saying what a wonderful idea, and we thank you for it. While there are commercially made MCC's out there, they normally cover one discipline, and they normally spend BIG money on all of the bells and whistles. I am from the old school, and like using the acronym KISS-Keep it simple, stupid! Thanks for your help, ... Mark Retired Asst. Chief Mark S. Warnick (Founder) Chief of Operations Helping Our Own (TM) Firefighter helping Firefighter http://www.helpingourown.org e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: 877-446-6435 (877-4-HOO-Help) Office 517-764-0641 Helping Our Own (TM) P.O. Box 413 Michigan Center, MI, 49254 - Original Message - From: "Mark Warnick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "The Digital Divide Network discussion group" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 4:01 PM Subject: Re: [DDN] Planning Help Needed Thanks for the advice Mike, so what do we consider solid and dependable? Would XP be considered dependable? I am really not technology savvy, in fact, that's part of the reason I am on this list. if this were firefighting equipment, I could spec you almost anything, but it's not. Thanks for your advice, ... Mark Retired Asst. Chief Mark S. Warnick (Founder) Chief of Operations Helping Our Own (TM) Firefighter helping Firefighter http://www.helpingourown.org e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: 877-446-6435 (877-4-HOO-Help) Office 517-764-0641 Helping Our Own (TM) P.O. Box 413 Michigan Center, MI, 49254 - Original Message - From: "Executive Director" <[EMA
Re: [DDN] Planning Help Needed
Hi Mark, My initial thought is that VISTA will, indeed, be a resource hog...in other words, not something you're going to want to implement on older hardware. It'll require fast processors and tons of memory, neither of which tends to come through the recycling stream to community technology projects. On the other hand, I doubt there'll be significant interoperability issues between VISTA and XP, so if you have machines that can XP well, you probably won't isolate the random user who comes in with a VISTA laptop. Windows 2k would give you better performance on older hardware. The best performance on older hardware is going to come from a Linux OS, optimized for older hardware. That would actually let you keep your machines up to date, free from viruses, spam, or adware, and secure. It would also mean not being locked out of operating system advances, since even modern releases of Linux distributions tend to work well with older hardware (I've had good initial experiences with Ubuntu, Debian (which Ubuntu is based on) and a couple of others so far. Using a Linux based system would make it easier to set up a network, share files, etc...but would also mean using open source software for office applications instead of MS Office. Your call, since your staff would have to make the switch. Personally, I feel Open Office is so close to MS Office in look and feel that it's not an issue, and I've had friends using my computer who didn't realize they weren't using the MS product till I pointed it out. On the other hand, if you're using proprietary software that only works on Windows, you'll either have to invest the time to find alternatives or go with a Windows solution after all. Hope this helps, Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Mark Warnick wrote: Hello Everyone, I am normally a lurker here on the list, mainly because of my lack of knowledge. My father always told me it is better to be thought an idiot and remain silent than to open your mouth and remove all doubt, so I try to live by that rule (LOL). We are beginning to work on a project with the government that involves making a "Mobile Command Center" for first responders using excess equipment from first responders and the government. This is all in the experimental and planning stage, and there is a lot to figure out. One thing that has come up, and the reason I am writing this letter, is that Microsoft will supposedly be releasing Vista soon. From what I am told this will make older operating systems "obsolete", and possibly incompatible. Considering the "Mobile Command Vehicle" will be for long term use, and we are using computers 1-2 years old (recycled) we are curious if; 1) It is true older computers will soon become totally obsolete 2) Will there be interoperability issues 3) What is the best avenue to take to ensure that the network in the command center will not be a headache for the staff. The way we envision it, the Mobile Command Center will have it's own network, as well as having the ability for someone to plug in their laptop in the center and share files with the command staff. Any and all help with this planning part of this phase is appreciated, ... Mark Retired Asst. Chief Mark S. Warnick (Founder) Chief of Operations Helping Our Own (TM) Firefighter helping Firefighter http://www.helpingourown.org e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: 877-446-6435 (877-4-HOO-Help) Office 517-764-0641 Helping Our Own (TM) P.O. Box 413 Michigan Center, MI, 49254 ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] What does it mean to be a technology activist?
The pay sucks and there's no room for advancement? Now they tell me... Interesting that this was posted now...I'm working on language for my bio and for a grant application, and I've arrived at the phrase "technology as a catalyst for systemic social change". I'll add more later, and possibly post something on this to my blog once I've read both of your essays in more detail. Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Andy Carvin wrote: > What Does it Mean to be a Technology Activist? > > Taran Rampersad has just authored an insightful essay on what it means > to be a technology activist. Some highlights: > > "Really - what is a technology activist? This has been something > I've been trying to figure out, as it is presently a primary description > of me... I joked about it, saying that the 'pay sucks' (and it does), > and that there's little room for advancement > > "And I still can't quite put a finger on what a technology activist > is. At the end of the day, it's a very broad and ill defined area which > is a bit scarey, because perception might lead people to believe that > technology activism is limited to a select group, when in fact I believe > it isn't. I believe that it's a part of the natural course of technology. > > "For my part, I see it as an issue related to quality of life. I > know that a lot of other people feel the same, though most I do know of > would be categorized as Digital Divide Activists" > > -- > > Taran goes on to say that technology activism in itself is "a pretty > poorly defined area." Generally speaking, he concludes, it means "trying > to bring about change with technology." > > I think that hits the nail on the head. Being a technology activist and > working to bridge the digital divide isn't about putting an Internet PC > so we can grow the market for e-commerce, online gaming or > entertainment > > Instead, being a technology activist is something more basic: fostering > equitable access to tools that will improve people's quality of life - > quality as they define it, on their own terms > > At its root, it's not about the technology. Being a technology activist > is being a community activist, a social justice activist, a political > activist, an education activist, a development activist. We've got these > amazing tools that are revolutionizing the way we all live, learn, earn > and interact. Shouldn't everyone have the same opportunity to benefit > from these tools, so they too can make a better life for themselves? > > Taran's essay: > http://www.knowprose.com/node/11473 > > My response: > http://www.andycarvin.com/archives/2006/03/what_does_it_mean_to.html > > > > ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
[DDN] Why Moodle could revolutionize how CTCs work
Hi all, I sat down and took some time to look at Moodle today. For those of you who don't know, Moodle is a free, open sourced program that's designed to allow a website to offer online courses, just like Blackboard or Chalk. It has an impressive number of features, including the ability to manage massive numbers of students, instructors, and courses, and seems to offer full email -> forum integration (something I haven't managed to get working in Drupal yet, annoyingly enough). Why should you care? I think Moodle could revolutionize efforts to bridge the Digital Divide. If it's truly as easy to use as it seems (and I've seen nothing to contradict this assumption so far), then this is a package that *any* community technology organization could, and should, be using. Consider this: say we have a group of 50 community technology groups across a city. One of them has a staff member who's skilled in search engine optimization, but the organization desperately needs some help in developing a sustainability plan. Another may have good fundraising efforts in place, but offers only basic computer literacy courses...and doesn't know where to send their students when they ask for more involved instruction, for example in website design. A third organization has a wealth of experience in community outreach and development and holds advanced classes in digital video editing, but lacks the capacity for developing basic literacy courses for ESL populations. What I'm describing is pretty much the status quo of the community technology field. We have tremendous resources in our network, of which knowledge is perhaps the most important. We also suffer from serious drawbacks, since very few organizations have a perfect mastery of every area needed for a successful program. If these organizations had a centralized online system for coursework, however, we can see some major potential for change in this model. Consider an organization that is considering adding a website development course to their offerings. How much easier would it be to implement if this organization could simply have a staff member take an online course in website development and then in teaching website development, while offering the same online website development course to students in a lab, with the newly trained staff member as a course instructor / facilitator? Instead of developing their own curriculum, they'd have access to curricula developed by several experienced organizations to draw from. Similarly, their staff members would go from having relatively few opportunities for professional development to having multiple courses available to them at any given time, on a variety of topics. Courses can also be controlled, so participation can be limited to members affiliated with a partner institution, or those who've paid a sliding scale fee, for example. In the event of a highly successful program, courses could even be provided for corporate or other participants willing to pay commercial rates for training, which would be a welcome stream of income. Courses could be used as-is, or used as the basis for a classroom course in a specific area...for example, a CTC in Dhaka could use a course on website development as an accompaniment to a classroom course taught in Bangla on the same subject. This has implications for how we conduct our workshops and training sessions, too. If I'm leading a panel discussion on search engine optimization, for example, I can reach a fairly limited audience. How many more people can I reach if I've developed that same content into an online course, which any participating institution can make available to its members? How many organizations are thinking "sure, we could use a staff member training in search engine optimization, but we can't justify the staff time to send someone out during the day" ...but would gladly have staff members participating if the workshop were online, self-scheduled? As organizations in the field of education, our network is in a position to benefit from Moodle in a big way, both in terms of directly working with our constituencies and in professional development for staff and volunteers. We need systems like this in place to really establish our work as a field, and to begin to tap the potential already hiding in various pockets of our network. Anyone using Moodle already? Other ideas, comments, suggestions? Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Laptop Vs. Cellphones (used to be: Digital Divide grows wider, UW research finds)
Interesting...this research project seems to support an idea Taran voiced earlier, that developing nations will take to cell phone technologies faster than mobile computers / laptops, and that these technologies should be where the focus is. I'm interested in the logistics of this. India already has a more developed cell phone market than the US. No, I'm not kidding. The latest and greatest models available here have frequently been out in India for six months...sometimes even a year. Most (if not all) plans in India, including prepaid ones, have free incoming minutes for as little as $5, for a card that lasts three months. The US simply has nothing on that scale, because the telecoms here are trying to wring as much out of people as possible. In India, there is *always* a gigantic new market waiting to be tapped if you can lower your price point even a little. The problem, as I see it, is that lower-income populations in India use very basic cellular services. The latest and greatest phones with data communications features, photo sharing, cameras, and other gadgets are still excusively the realm of the well-to-do ...and the hardware costs a lot. Far more than the $100 Negropointe is pitching his laptop for. If we're going to promote cellular technologies as an answer to the Digital Divide, or even suggest that the market might be moving in this direction, then I agree wholeheartedly that the infrastructure is in place (or is being rapidly developed) where it needs to be. But what about the cost of the handsets? Providing features from a top-end phone (which actually is a phone / pda / portable gaming and media device) down to an affordable price point for lower income population is a challenge...perhaps more daunting than the idea of the $100 laptop, since we're talking about making the technology even more compact. A third option might be to look to mobile computing devices that operating on both the GSM band and the 802.11b/g/a bands. One machine connected to a cellular tower could act as a repeater for a mesh network model on both bands. This could solve some of the infrastructure costs of deploying wide-scale wireless networks, but would also require collaboration with the resident telcos, and (perhaps) increase the cost of the hardware slightly. Thoughts? Dave. ------- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Charles Brennick wrote: From Seattle Times Global digital divide grows wider, UW research finds See http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2002878653_digitaldivide21.html Charles Brennick [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.interconnection.org This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PC Magazine reviews $159 Linspire computer
md, That's interesting...thanks for following up with Linspire. I didn't realize this wasn't a direct Linspire promotion. I wouldn't have a problem with Fry's playing games like this except that they're doing it at the cost of open source operating systems, which is a cost they may not have even considered. Using one product to create potential for an up-sell is becoming standard marketing practice in many retailers, but when the dog machine is the only Linux configuration in the store, this directly portrays Linux in general (and Linspire in particular) as being slow, unstable, and unuseable...and becomes a system of upselling would-be Linux buyers to a MS machine. This becomes much clearer when I realize that it's a Fry's marketing strategy, and not a Linspire one. Linspire, if anything, should be fairly upset at this. It's ironic that so many people are talking about Fry's adopting this $159 machine as a big step forward for the open source community...it's actually a fairly large step backwards. I'd argue that it would be better for someone to be mostly ignorant of open source software than for them to have such an overwhelmingly negative impression enforced by a major (and therefore, trusted) retailer. It's a win-win situation for Fry's...everyone is happy with them for adopting an open source OS, when what they're really doing is bashing it to make their MS products look good. D. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Jon maddog Hall wrote: I believe she already has the software she uses on a day to day basis Playing the devil's advocate (these words take on new meaning), she should check her licenses. Software purchased bundled with another machine is often not transferable to another system. I'm disappointed, because this configuration amounts to a very bad configuration from a marketing perspective. Linspire is bloated, and the makers of Linspire must surely be aware that their software takes up a certain amount of resources to run. Why release a machine that's configured to draw attacks and criticism for abysmal performance? Linspire may not have had much to say about it. It is not their computer, they just have their OS on it. It was up to the company that built the computer for Fryes, and Fryes itself that make the poor call. According to the Linspire marketing guy, Frye's was using this as a "loss leader". According to Wikipedia: "In marketing, a loss leader is an item that is sold below cost in an effort to stimulate other profitable sales." In the "loss leader" area, the first thing that a person might buy is more memory, and the service of installing it. But if they have to do this, then the system automatically costs more than the $159. Another "loss leader" technique is "bait and switch". Advertise a low-cost computer, and when it looks like a dog in the store, sell a higher priced one. I can not be sure that this is Frye's tactic, but if it smells like md ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PC Magazine reviews $159 Linspire computer
Um...nothing at all, as far as I can see. In my opinion, of course, any machine delivered to a developing nation as a panacea for digital divide issues should be based on open standards, open sourced software, and a transparent distribution model. This Linspire machine, on the other hand, is very specifically targeted towards a US audience, in the hopes of attracting some non-technical Windows users to a cheaper, nice-looking machine. And there lies the problem...without some major technical tweaks, the system as configured is useless. And an audience that is aware of those tweaks isn't going to be very impressed by this machine...I'd label it a failed marketing exercise. But it's so close! With a little more work, a ram upgrade, and some polish (and some arm-twisting to make Fry's shut up about how the machine will never work with a Chicagoland ISP, etc) that machine could truly be one which grabs someone's attention. A faster running machine with a floor model and ongoing demonstrations with colorful signs around it (like they do for Earthlink dialup access, for example, or netzero) would be very effective. I think this is the direction Linux has to move in if it's going to gain ground...developing a product that appeals to the majority of computer users, who are non-geeks, who have modest computing demands, and who need an intuitive (meaning Windows-like) operating environment. It'd be nice if it wasn't Linspire, but I'd still rank this a step in the right direction. D. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Cindy Lemcke-Hoong wrote: SO... what do all these discussions mean to the $100 computer that will soon deliver to the children of the developing world? Cindy [EMAIL PROTECTED] = [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PC Magazine reviews $159 Linspire computer
Not sure whether she's going to be paying for a Windows license or not...I believe she already has the software she uses on a day to day basis. And yes, I'd assume the machine would become much more usable even in Linspire with some extra RAM and a few tweaks, but if I'd had my way we would have wiped Linspire from day one and installed Ubuntu + RAM upgrade. At this point, she's not willing to try anymore, and just wants to go back to Windows without any further investment. I'm disappointed, because this configuration amounts to a very bad configuration from a marketing perspective. Linspire is bloated, and the makers of Linspire must surely be aware that their software takes up a certain amount of resources to run. Why release a machine that's configured to draw attacks and criticism for abysmal performance? The same machine with 256 Mb ram would have cost maybe $10 more, from the distributer's point of view. The last mile to get products on the shelf is crucial...products have to be configured to perform and put on a convincing display for consumers who aren't tech savvy, since this is the market Linspire is courting. I have to be able to walk in to a store (like Fry's) and see a machine that's impressive before I'll even consider replacing my tried and tested Windows machine with it...and seeing notes on how no internet connections will ever work with it, etc, certainly doesn't do much for its credibility as an innovative product. I'm surprised Linspire isn't taking steps to correct this attitude, when so much of their existence is purely a marketing exercise for freely available, open source products in shiny packaging. D. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Jon maddog Hall wrote: Dave, One more thing, the PC Magazine article did also mention the slowness of the machine with the stock 128 MBytes of memory, and said that when they upgraded to 512 Mbytes (two 256Mbyte sticks of memory) the machine "became quite snappy". They also said "you would not mistake it for a Athlon 64 or an Intel P4." So for $40. more they said it became a quite capable office system, although noting that serious gamers would probably still be a bit disappointed. Then again, serious gamers spend way over 4000 USD for a machine. md ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] A note on fry's vs. Outpost - PC Magazine reviews $159 Linspire computer
Since this came up, I thought I'd mention that Outpost has completely separate pricing / sales than Fry's, and you will pay a shipping charge, with no option to deliver to a store near you. Sometimes what's on sale in-store will also be on sale online, but not usually. Dave. ------- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Brenda J. Trainor wrote: So how come Fry's online Outpost.com lists this at $269.99? http://shop1.outpost.com/search?cat=-46614&pType=pDisplay Brenda J. Trainor Frontier Trail, Inc. Box 935 Monrovia, CA 91017 323.229.2397 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Phil Shapiro Sent: Friday, 10 March 2006 12:25 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [DDN] PC Magazine reviews $159 Linspire computer and gives this computer a general thumbs up. see http://digg.com/linux_unix/PC_Magazine_Reviews_$159_Linspire_Computer - phil fry's electronics has stores in northern california, southern california, texas, and a few stores in arizona, georgia, illinois, indiana, nevada, oregon, and washington. i don't think fry's sells mail order, though. see http://www.frys.com it's useful to note that the fry's electronics store in renton, washington, is 14 miles south of microsoft's offices in redmond, washington. rook to queen 5. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PC Magazine reviews $159 Linspire computer
Advice appreciated, but the computer's not mine to administer...I'm merely an advisor and friend lending a hand with the technology, and at this point the woman who bought the machine and her sons are all *adamantly* refusing to experiment with any more of this open source nonsense and want to go straight back to the Windows machine they're familiar with. I've suggested exactly what you describe (I was intending to try Ubuntu, or even DSL running in ram mode) but they're not willing to even try it now. Convincing someone to switch from a system they're comfortable with when they're not computer-literate is a tenuous process at best, and sometimes one screwup is enough to taint the attempt, unfortunately. Thanks, Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Jon maddog Hall wrote: Dave, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: The machine had an AMD 2400+ processor with 128 Mb DDR RAM...absolutely no reason for it to be running that slowly, other than Linspire's code bloat. [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: so abysmally that my friend has insisted that I install XP for her. I'm doing this, as well as adding a RAM upgrade. Before installing XP, why not try a different version of Linux, or at least a re-tuned version of Linspire. In fact, one thing that MIGHT make the Linux system really slow is whether or not DMA has been turned off for the main disk drives. I had a Linux system that was slow, and finally I realized that the DMA had been turned off for the hard drives (sometimes necessary for CD-ROMs), which made the system work really SLOW. OR it could be that (to be "easy" for the former Windows users) that they did something like mounting the file systems synchronous, or using log-based file systems on a mostly read-only file system. Yes, the people who package the system should have done this, but with your explanation of their attitudes, I would not be surprised. I also am aware that the pre-V2.0 versions of Open Office (Alpha and Beta versions) were REALLY slow, and right before V2.0 came out the speed of Open Office improved DRAMATICALLY. It is possible that the version of OO on Linspire was one of these pre-release versions. In any case, try pulling down a version of Fedora or SuSE 10.0 and putting that on the machine, making sure DMA is turned on for the hard drives after installation. Warmest regards, maddog ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PC Magazine reviews $159 Linspire computer
My past experience with Fry's and linux has not been positive. A friend went with me to purchase a new computer a couple of months ago, and I recommended going to Fry's to see their $199 Linspire computer. They were reluctant to even admit they had a floor model, insisting first that the machine had to be bought unseen and couldn't be tested. When I located a floor model, it performed abysmally...opening Open Office took a couple of minutes, and there was noticeable lag between typing a letter and seeing it on the screen. The machine had an AMD 2400+ processor with 128 Mb DDR RAM...absolutely no reason for it to be running that slowly, other than Linspire's code bloat. Even more alarming was Fry's marketing strategy for the product. Or rather, their dis-marketing strategy. They had a printed sign posted over the machine that said (1.) The computer would not run windows programs (this is somewhat true, but you can use an emulator if you must); (2.) that the computer ran Linspire and all warranties and service agreements would be void if any change was made to the configuration of the system (which is ridiculous...if I change my operating system, it should have no effect whatsoever on the warranty on my hardware); and (3.) that *no* ISP in the Chicagoland area supported Linux or would provide internet services that were compatible with this machine (which is utterly incorrect, since both SBC DSL and Comcast Cable, the two major broadband players in Chicagoland, have general services that work perfectly with Linux. The Linspire machine I purchased performed as badly as the floor model; so abysmally that my friend has insisted that I install XP for her. I'm doing this, as well as adding a RAM upgrade. This person was ready to be converted to the open source world, had listened readily to my reasoning for making the switch, and is now giving up, certain that open source software is buggy, slow, and doesn't work with anything. And I can't say that I blame her, given how the machine performs and how Fry's markets it. Before we give credit to Fry's for carrying an open source product, I question their marketing attitude, which I found extremely pro-MS and anti-Linux. I can also attest that, in my experience at least, this product drove away a potential convert and delivered her straight back into the Windows world. If the machine advertised performs differently, the situation may change...and if other retailers market the product effectively, it has a great deal of potential. The Fry's in Downer's Grove (Chicago), however, isn't one of them. Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Phil Shapiro wrote: and gives this computer a general thumbs up. see http://digg.com/linux_unix/PC_Magazine_Reviews_$159_Linspire_Computer - phil fry's electronics has stores in northern california, southern california, texas, and a few stores in arizona, georgia, illinois, indiana, nevada, oregon, and washington. i don't think fry's sells mail order, though. see http://www.frys.com it's useful to note that the fry's electronics store in renton, washington, is 14 miles south of microsoft's offices in redmond, washington. rook to queen 5. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Looking for resources in Cantonese
If you're in Chicago (I'm wondering if you are, since you mentioned Gideon's work) you might want to pay a visit to the Pui Tak Center, in Chinatown. Their website: http://www.puitak.org The exec. director's name is David Wu, and he'll definitely be able to help out. I know they have classes in basic computer instruction in both English and Cantonese (as well as an ESL program) ...one of their recent success stories involved an 86 year old immigrant who now uses his computer in both languages. Even if you're not in Chicago, you should give them a call... Hope that helps, Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Stephen Ronan wrote: Thanks very much indeed, Cindy. I'm volunteering some assistance to a wifi community network due to roll out soon in a housing development with a high percentage of Cantonese speakers. I personally hadn't known prior to your message how close written Cantonese is to Mandarin. So, yes, it would also be helpful to be able to provide written materials for beginners in Mandarin or other Chinese dialects with similar writing systems. I know that the work of Gideon and colleagues is very highly regarded, so I'm confident that what he's sending will be a good start. - Stephen On Fri, 24 Feb 2006, Cindy Lemcke-Hoong wrote: Hello Stephen, As far as I know, when it comes to written form, we all use Mandarin/Chinese. Although there is such thing as 'written Cantonese' but there are only very few characters that are peculiar to Cantonese speakers. And to a certain extent the sentence constructions can be slightly different from Mandarin. Or other Chinese dialtects. Therefore basically it dosen't matter if one is speaking Cantonese, Mandarin or Shanghainese, for example, the 'written form' are the same. Only the way we pronouce the words are different. And if you think it is crazy among the Chinese, actually you can show the Chinese characters to the Korean or Japanese, they would understand what they mean but again will prounce in their own tongue (that is if the Japanese and Korean you encoutered do know how to read Chinese or Kanji). Sorry for the long explaination. But perhaps what you are looking for is Mandarin/Chinese materials? Cindy [EMAIL PROTECTED] = [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] [students using the internet as a resource] US educational levels
the first month, to make sure we were making progress on our papers. Every single student in the class, with the exception of myself, had trouble with the paper, and expressed anger and resentment that they were being forced to write it. Some students failed because they refused to turn it in...the only formal written assignment in the class. There are institutions like Haverford College, where I started out, which required short papers of similar length turned in several times per week. I had final assignments there where I finished a class with papers ranging from 10 to 20 pages (and once, 30). The University of Chicago is the same. But the majority of college students do not go to Haverford, or the U. of Chicago...they go to institutions like Harold Washington. The devaluing of the degree that this causes can only result in the US lagging further and further behind our foreign competition...the educational system in this country is in crisis, and without some serious political backing it may be too far gone to be resurrected. Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Samuel Young wrote: The US has been in a educational crisis for at least 20 years. Traditionally, US has been able to attract highly educated people from all over the world. People came from Western Europe shortly after the world. And more recently from Eastern Europe and Asia. It has been able to keep a head by using the K-12 Educational systems of the rest of the world. Since the living standards in the US has been relatively higher than most of the world, many of these bright foreigners have chosen to stay and work in this wonderful country. Unfortunately, the rest of the world is catching up. In many cases the living standards have caught up. The college and university educational levels are catching up. Students in these countries have more chances at home than in the US. We are attracting less of the brightest and the best. I was one of those Asians that came from HK to the US for an education and ended up staying. But now the educational opportunities in HK are much better than when I was 18. I would not have to leave to get the education that I received in the US. My wife is getting her doctorate in Education. While she was going for her doctorate, she wrote a paper on the disparate Mathematical education between the US and many other Asian countries (Japan, Korea, Taiwan, HK, Singapore and India). The professor gave her an "A" for the paper, but commented that he had doubts whether children can really comprehend higher level Math. The professor also wondered if there are some long term side effects if one introduces complex concept at an early age. Well, people from other countries are doing it and I don't think my brain is damaged, why are US kids less capable? Unless the educators pull their heads out of the sand, the system will never be fixed. My oldest son is now in 7th grade and he is starting to learn algebra, calculus and robotics. We are not waiting for others to wake up. Sam Young CIO La Sierra University -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Executive Director Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 6:44 AM To: 'The Digital Divide Network discussion group' Subject: Re: [DDN] Re: Should Students be Permitted to Use the InternetasaResource for Research Assignments? "Does education have problems? Of course. Which of our institutions, from the family to the workplace to the polling place doesn't?" I think that K-12 public education will change when: * The parents of the 16 and 17 year olds coming to us, (with 3rd grade reading and 2nd grade spelling) * The parents of the 60% of HS students ill prepared for work or higher education * The parent of the 50% of black HS students who drop out due to lack of proper preparation * When parents stop accepting excuses and promises All class action sue the school districts for gross negligence and professional malpractice. The computer and the Internet are viruses that will infect the public schools systems and either finally change them or finish rendering them obsolete so that the next form of education that actually works can take over. Mike * Michael F. Pitsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dr. Steve Eskow Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 1:34 PM To: 'The Digital Divide Network discussion group' Subject: RE: [DDN] Re: Should Students be Permitted to Use the Internet asaResource for Research Assignments? Paul, I hope that you and others on this list who believe that we are in a "crisis," and who refer to international tests that show we are educating less well than other nations, are willing to
Re: [DDN] [Multilingualism in Cyberspace] ?
Cindy, others, "Again, I want to draw you back to the discussion when > Dave A. Chakrabarti suggested English, as de factor > ICT language at present, should be the way we want to > look at for the rest of the world. " When did I say this? I resent the implication. I thought my meaning was fairly clear. Several posts on this subject have discussed the need for instruction in the vernacular, and the need *in our sector* for content in the vernacular. I feel that no matter how ideologically sound these ideas may be, it simply won't happen till there's an economic incentive to do so. One organization, or a group of organizations, cannot be the driving force behind content creation in a particular language. Why are English, Korean, and Japanese blessed with such masses of content on the internet? Not because some organization decided to promote the language online for ideological reasons. It happened because business economics dictated that it happen. There was a demand, and it was economically sensible to fill that demand. A Korean blogger writing for a Korean-speaking audience has no incentive to blog in English. For some language groups, however, this is simply not the case. I *know* Indians who are poor, who speak only Bengali, who are desperately in need of economic mobility...perfect subjects for digital literacy education, in other words. They would *much* rather learn English than learn to use the internet in Bengali. As a result, there is greater economic need for ESL classes than there is for Bengali computer instruction. In fact, there is greater demand for ESL than there is for *any* computer instruction in many cases. India chose Hindi to serve as a national language (narrowly, over English) but there are 23+ major languages spoken, each with its own dialects. Despite this variety, English is the language of social and economic mobility...not a vernacular. You and I can argue all we want these people should learn to communicate in their native languages. But what we are actually implying, and which I'll make explicit, is that these people should be able to communicate in their native languages, both on and offline, with the same degree of economic meaning as in English. And this is simply not the reality for many of these language groups. We may wish it were true, we may look for ways to make it true, we may criticize those who point out its lack of truth...but in the end, it's *not* something that we have achieved, yet. When I can honestly say that teaching my family in India to use the internet in Bengali will be as useful to them as teaching them to use it in English, then there will be a demand for Bengali content. *Then* we can advocate for Bengali computer instruction, Bengali email applications, Bengali keyboarding classes...and a demand for content in Bengali will follow, as the numbers of people preferring Bengali grows online. It's not the number of Bengali speakers online that counts. It's the number of people preferring Bengali. I'm a Bengali speaker. My presence doesn't increase the demand for Bengali content in the least. The languages we use online aren't merely a social experiment. Our online training has economic, social, and personal implications. To advise computer education in the vernacular when this prevents the economic benefit of that same education in English is not something I can suggest, because there are real people with real lives that are negatively affected by such a move. As I said before, one possible solution is bi-lingual education, so we add the economic advantages of English with the social preference of the vernacular, always leaving the user free to choose. Given the lack of content in the vernacular, however, I think this would only result in users learning to use English content more and morethey'll be like me, speakers of Bengali but creating no demand for Bengali content online. If you're going to put words in my mouth, I ask that you read my posts a little more carefully in the future. Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Cindy Lemcke-Hoong wrote: Hello Dave, Again, I want to draw you back to the discussion when Dave A. Chakrabarti suggested English, as de factor ICT language at present, should be the way we want to look at for the rest of the world. I again agreed when you mentioned most of the people in these poorer countries are illiterate therefore 'cannot read, cannot write'... but I am sure they can speak and hear/listen (unless of course with physical disabilities) in their own language??? Would you not agree the right thing to do to improve their abilitity of communication to the written/reading world is in THEIR OWN LANGUAGE? For example, citizens of Bukina Faso to whom French i
Re: [DDN] [Multilingualism in Cyberspace] Perhaps more complex than that
s other computers in English. Even though he prefers the Korean machine, he is drifting slowly but surely into the English internet. And that's for a *Korean* man, who has tons of available content in his language. Bangla has no such content...a Bangla computer user is at a disadvantage from the beginning. The nations that have made the switch to computer and internet use in the vernacular (again, Korea and Japan come to mind) have done so because businesses led the way. It became economically feasible to take their highly educated, vernacular-speaking work force and develop computer tools that they could use without drastic retraining. In most of the third world, however, this simply isn't the case. Where is the highly-educated, affluent Indian middle class that speaks no English? In Bangladesh? In Pakistan? In all of S. Asia, the educated and the affluent middle class that comprises much of the potential workforce is English-speaking. As long as this remains the case, there cannot be a major shift in internet content creation for these languages on the internet, simply because there is no demand. I can walk into Chinatown in Chicago today and find educated Chinese who speak little or no English, and who would like to learn to use the internet while demanding content in Chinese...and as a result, David Wu's community technology center in Chinatown has classes on computer use and typing in Chinese. Where is a similar demand for Bengali? As long as this demand is present only in a niche (as in the case of those in Dhaka who would like to use email, but can't find a Bangla email client), the supply will also exist only in the niche. There will be niche email programs and niche dictionary translators, and that's about all. To really drive content creation in Bangla, we would need the economy to produce well-educated, preferably affluent populations demanding digital content and education in that language. Otherwise, I doubt it'll happen. Americanization is a problem. And I agree...I flinch every time I go back to Calcutta and see the new fast food places and shopping malls. I prefer my hole in the wall stores and street food, not burgers and pizza. But Americanization is not at the heart of this problem...the heart of this problem is perhaps more British colonialism and directions in postcolonial growth than in Americanization. Either way, as long as our educated populations speak English, the majority of the workforce will speak English. As long as the majority of the workforce speaks English, it will be significantly more profitable to do so. And if there is more value in speaking English, then that is the language we will speak, and learn to speak, when it comes to digital access. The predominance of English as a spoken language bears this out. It's the most spoken language in the world...everyone knows that, but how many know that it's that widely spoken only as a second language? Mandarin is the language most spoken natively in the world. This means that an overwhelming number of people (like myself) learn English as a second language...because, for whatever reason, it is more prudent to do so. First languages are learned of necessity...second languages usually of economic prudence or interest. Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Cindy Lemcke-Hoong wrote: Hello Nazrul, Language is a real issue especially since WSIS the promotion of the 100USD lap-top. I have always questioned the notion of English as the defacto internet language. For countries/people who are not knowledgeable in this langauge, with the digital content mostly in English, that would mean the burden is AGAIN on those poorer/digital hungry countries/people. So how good it is to give them a lap-top while they cannot read what is there? I have spoke out about language divide for the past 3,4 years. But, small voice generates no punch. After all people who is on this list precisely because they know English, if not English is their native language. They don't feel the pain of those who are locked out because they lack the language ability. Cindy [EMAIL PROTECTED] = [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
[DDN] US schools fearing digital education
Hi all, I received an email recently from school teacher who's starting using Blogger to create blogs for her students, and to allow them to interact with others online. The educational value of this appears to be obvious: she says that experts her students have had dialogue with through their blogs include a veterinarian and a retired astronomer who worked on the Hubble Space Telescope. Her Board of Education just read an article on how blogs have become the online journals for children now, complete with sordid details, and are running scared. As a result, they've decided to block Blogger. I criticize their decision on several points, currently on my site here: http://www.digitalraindrop.com/Schools-Fear-Technology I'll add this to my DDN Blog as soon as it syndicates. I'm curious as to the community's thoughts on this. I believe education systems should develop digital literacy policy targeted towards giving children the skills they need to navigate online resources safely and successfully. On the other hand, I also understand that schools don't want their children engaged in frivolous internet activities in the guise of internet research or digital education. Another consideration is simple practicality: to what extend can an institution govern and regulate use of a resource by children when those children often have a greater mastery of that medium than the adults? Is it even possible for postpone our children's exposure to the internet, and if so, is this postponement meaningful? Thanks for reading, Dave. ---- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago (708) 919-1026 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Searching for Bangladesh
Hi Linda, I agree...school in Bangla should either be applied to the middle and upper middle classes, or existing Bangla schools for lower middle and lower class students (mostly government run) must be upgraded to include online access. That simple statement, however, creates a great many problems to one familiar with education in South Asia. To begin with, Bangla medium schools in W. Bengal are usually impoverished, and serve an impoverished population. These are *not* schools that will have internet access...many don't even have a building, and hold classes outdoors in a village commons. The ones that do have buildings frequently don't have textbooks, stationery, or other basic pedagogic resources. These must take priority over a program to implement online education in Bangla. Secondly, even if we were to find a middle class school imparting instruction in the Bangla language, we would once again have to ask ourselves if creating this alternative infrastructure (Bangla websites, Bangla keyboard training, etc) is doing these students a disservice. After all, the school would argue, they could put the same funding towards adding ESL classes so their children would be literate in English. The status quo dictates that speaking English is the first barrier to economic mobility in South Asia, and digital literacy a distant second by comparison. We are attempting separate the two so that the latter no longer depends on the first; but until we are successful, this thought experiment will never take off. It's a paradox. Without the success of the experiment, the experiment can't begin...and since the success of the experiment cannot happen in a short period of time, this would appear to doom the experiment to failure. I think a viable solution is parallel education in both languages...so you could develop digital literacy while teaching ESL classes, and then follow digital literacy in Bangla with classes on digital literacy in English once the student's fluency level improves. This would still produce bilingual internet users, but with a difference...their primary language on the internet will be the vernacular. This might result in a natural shift to more resources being created in Bangla. Perhaps this will eventually result in an environment where there are enough resources in the local language to make English fluency less of a requirement. For example, if more and more students are getting online primarily in Bangla while taking ESL classes, how long will it be before someone develops an email portal in Bangla? Or a learning English from Bangla website? I think this is the direction education must move in before we can expect critical mass for online Bangla resources...otherwise, Bangla will continue to be a nonexistant language online. The quotes most people are referring to in languages most spoken simply don't apply to the internet"languages most spoken online" would undoubtedly see English, French, Spanish, Japanese, and Korean rank very highly, with languages like Bangla not ranked at all. Dave. Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago (708) 919-1026 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- On Jan 27, 2006, at 1:43 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave, You make some excellent points.. as an American married to a Bengali, I have spent a lot of time in Bangladesh. We have a second home in Dhaka. I doubt if my Bangla skills even come close to yours, although I try. I agree with you that most Internet using Bengalis (Bangladesh and Bengal in India) do speak or at least read and write in English; HOWEVER, Bengali is the 7th most widely spoken language in the world: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0775272.html (a little recognized fact since it is spoken in such a small region, that just happens to be over-populated.) My other observation is that IF Bangladesh is to emerge into the global economy school in Bangla medium, especially those for the emerging middle class, must have Internet access with resources in Bengali. BTW Internet access in Dhaka seems to still be remarkably slow and difficult. There is just such great potential. BTW Dave, My husband was born in Barishaal. Linda Ullah Foothill College Krause Center for Innovation http://www.foothill.edu/kci [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Excellent post! I'm a native Bangla speaker, though my Bengali's not great...I grew up half here in the US and half in Calcutta, India. My dad's from Barishaal, so I can speak / understand a few dialects more than your typical city Bangla speaker, but my reading / writing is getting woefully rusty. Having Bangla resources on the web would serve a secondary purpose; for people like me, it would let me keep in touch with the language. Since I'm online a *lot* of the time, reading the news from the subcontinent or updates on digi
Re: [DDN] Searching for Bangladesh
7;re hurting their job opportunities by *not* making them English computer users. At some point when businesses and other organizations are using this model (and it does make economic sense, since it would let you hire newly trained digitally literate workers for less than their higher-priced middle class counterparts with traditional educations) and there is a widespread need for these skills, this education will have more value. Initially, however, it will have almost no value at all...these workers will be locked into their work in the ngo's business venture(s), following an almost proprietary model. How do we get around this? Maybe with bilingual digital education? I'd appreciate hearing feedback / comments on this. Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- John Welch (RI-SOL/BNGD) wrote: I'm excited in the way that only a geek who likes languages can be... I turned on my computer yesterday and Google came up in Bangla (Bengali). That shouldn't be too surprising since I live in Bangladesh, but this was a new and surprising trick for my computer. I didn't change anything, but apparently Google started a local server (google.com.bd) which serves up content in UTF-8 encoded Bangla. From talking with friends around the world, it sounds like Google just kicked off a slew of these country-specific search engines. I'm country director of the Global Connections and Exchange Project (GCEP) in Bangladesh, a project which aims to introduce computer and internet technology into schools, and to promote intercultural lessons via the internet. Last year, we put up a website in UTF-8 encoded Bangla. For fun, I tried to find it...a little ego surfing -- I typed the name of my organization into the search engine in Bangla: "relief international" and hit three times. I then tried just "relief" and hit our page; I tried "international" and hit our page. In fact, as I broadened the search terms to common items like "school", "site", "link" and a bunch of other common words, I began to realize that there just aren't a lot of websites in Bangla. I'd like to think that our site is super-special (and it, of course, is), but the world's sixth most spoken language is critically under-represented on the internet -- talk about a digital divide. Part of the problem has been standards. One standard is used in India, while a proprietary standard is dominant in Bangladesh. I believe that Unicode Bangla was only finalized around April of last year. With the exception of our project, a few linux-related sites and a few wikipedia entries, the Bangla-language wired world has been a virtual desert. A few developments bode well for Bangla on the internet, though: 1) availability of unicode fonts (for instance, Vrinda which ships with WinXP and a series of open source fonts), 2) availability of browsers that can render unicode Bangla correctly (IE, Firefox, and probably others), and 3) a popular search engine that can find some content in Bangla. Perhaps this last factor will be enough to kick off an explosion of internet use, but a fourth pillar is still missing: a critical mass of content. We've been working on ways to jumpstart Bangla content. Last year, we started the first two Bangla-language projects on the Project Gutenberg, Europe site. We've done a number of collaborative projects between schools in Bangladesh using Bangla-based email and forums, and have developed projects culminating in production of essays, school newspapers and web pages in Bangla, all of which end up on the web. We're hoping to be part of a process to build local language content to the point that casual users can perform a search and find something useful in their own language. We may be a drop in the bucket when it comes to the global picture, but we hope we're a good example to early adapters of Bangla content development. For a brief glimpse of the language and a discussion of how it can be implemented on the internet, I've made a couple pages found at: http://www.connect-bangladesh.org/bangla Our Project Gutenberg projects can be found on the Project Gutenberg Europe site: http://dp.rastko.net/ Jack Welch, Country Director Relief International - Schools Online, Bangladesh +880-173-032-998 http://www.connect-bangladesh.org The Global Connections and Exchange Program is funded by the US Department of State, Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs, per provisions of the Mutual Educational and Cultural Exchange Act of 1961, as amended. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSU
Re: [DDN] MassMoblog Resource Request
Drupal! Or its big brother, CivicSpace. We've been using Drupal to set up content management and community authoring on several sites so far, and I'm running it on my personal site as well. I've been writing some documentation for it, and the more I get into it, the more I get the feeling the community is growing in friendly, dynamic ways. Drupal also goes much farther than a blog, or even a collection of blogs. It includes forums, mailing list management, image galleries, internal multiple taxonomies, contact forms, and a ton of other features. Can even do built-in Google maps with the right module. Totally open source, flexible, incredibly search engine friendly (especially compared with Mambo), and includes built-in constituent relationship management (CiviCRM) if you use CivicSpace. Drupal: Drupal.org. My site: Digitalraindrop.com (some tutorials, user experiences, comparisons, etc). I'm also building an online resource for newbie Drupalers...that should go live in the very near future. Hope that helps. Dave. ------- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Lars Hasselblad Torres wrote: Hi folks -- I am looking for the best solution out there for mass MMS blogging. I know blogger makes it pretty easy to set up one's own MoBlog; what, in your opinion, is the best blogging platform for collecting posts from many users, random and registered? Many thanks, Lars -- www.devarts.org + www.peacetiles.net Connecting visual artists to create a better world ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Looking for solutions re- Webcasting, Internet-based Faxing for Non-profits
Internet-based fax? That was me. I'll keep you posted...we're still in the absolute beginnings of a development phase on that one. D. ------- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Dialogue on Sustainable Community wrote: Hey Webheads, I'm wondering if there's anyone on this list who might be able to point me to a source to assist with Webcasting a live event next weekend. Obviously, budget is an issue, so we may inquire at a local University for assistance. Also, I saw a threat a while back about someone who was working on an Internet-based fax solution for non-profits. If you or someone you know might have some leads on these questions, please drop me a line at info at sustainable-community.org Best regards, Michael Burns Dialogue on Sustainable Community Chicago, IL Michael Burns ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] HOWTO: Add automatic translations to Drupal.
Hi Taran, others, Excellent article, and one I'm very interested in. One question: You mention that it will translate only from English to another language...so what happens if I click on the Spanish flag, and then on the French flag? Will it attempt to translate the Spanish to French, or is it smarter than that? Are there any easy comparisons between online translation engines? Is Google's the best one? How does it compare with, say, Babelfish? Thanks, and good luck on the job search... Dave. ------- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Taran Rampersad wrote: While emailing back and forth between a native French speaker who spoke Spanish and not English, discussing the Wikipedia, I realized that he couldn't read anything I wrote on the topics... so I sat down and hacked out automatic translation for Drupal Content Management System sites. It's not very difficult, but with so many Drupal users on the list, perhaps this link and example code with instructions will be useful: http://www.knowprose.com/node/10043 ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
[DDN] Who wants a broadcast fax server? Yes, you do.
Hi all, In partnership with Chicago's wonderful Linux group (FreeGeek Chicago: http://www.freegeekchicago.org/), we've decided it's about time we had a replicable, well-documented, broadcast fax solution. The idea is to get together and make use of FreeGeek's linux expertise to turn an average, low-end, nothing-fancy desktop computer we had lying around into a fax server capable of automatically sending high-volume faxes to addresses / numbers from pre-built databases. The immediate use that comes to mind is in advocacy / press releases / flyer distribution etc, but I'm sure most nonprofits could benefit from this kind of thing. And it'll be a great primer on the world of open source software and Linux, and the possibilities inherent in your old computer boxes. We're currently compiling a list of interested parties, and we expect to set a date to meet and build this thing in the near future. If there's enough interest from people / groups that won't be able to attend in the Chicago area, we can make extensive, newbie-friendly documentation available online soon afterwards. Anyone who'd like to be in on this, please email me and let me know. Please mention if you're in the Chicago area and would be interested in attending the build. You'll also get a tour of the Free Geek facility and hands-on experience of the work they're doing. Thanks, Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Don't waste time on trivialities
I agree, Kris. However, I also think it's important (if not crucial) to have dialogue on policy issues. It's monumental that Kofi Annan would introduce a $100 laptop initiative...if nothing else, it's a large step forward in the marketing of a useful idea. I think we can all agree that if a $100 laptop were available off the shelf everywhere in the world, with adequate support infrastructure and a high-quality product, it would be a good thing for the community technology movement. However, neither the Negropointe machine nor the Simputer can deliver this, yet. Why not? I feel discussions like this are important because, without them, products tend to become more and more "top-down" and less adequately suited to the audiences that might make the most use of them otherwise. It's easy to complain when this happens, looking at the end-product, but it's more constructive to try to make our voices heard now, when such products are being planned, to help create a better product. Perhaps we can all agree that, as things stand now, there are technological innovations we would like to see in the field of community technology. Whether it's seeing community technology centers becoming a home for e-democracy initiatives or health information infrastructure or workforce development or simply wanting more affordable technology, there are changes we'd like to see made. I suggest that it's up to us to have this dialogue, no matter how difficult, so that products of tomorrow aren't ones we criticise as harshly as the ones of today. If the Simputer had had the collective input of every community technology initiative on earth, and had been able to analyze it all to create a product directly demanded (and specified) by the grassroots development audience, would it have been a better product? Probably. If the Negropointe machine has the input of this movement, does it have the potential to become a better product? Again, possibly. If nothing else, it's important to be aware of the initiatives that are being discussed and being developed that impact our field. Of course, sustainin this dialogue is difficult when the conversation begins to move in too many directions and tempers get heated...I'd think this was better suited to a threaded conversation in a forum than on a mailing list. With Andy's moderation (when he can spare it...thanks Andy!) I'd like to see this discussion continue, if possible. Surely we all have valid points to make. On the other hand, if the discussion is growing too unwieldy and tempers are growing too heated, maybe we should treat ourselves like children and just let the topic die for a while? Go on, let's all give ourselves a smack on the wrist...I'm sure we've all got a million other things to focus on, right? Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Kris Dev wrote: Dear friends, I find from some of the conversations, the prioroties are misplaced. Instead of trying to score a point over each other, why don't we synergise our energies and try to make drinking water, food, clothing, shelter, etc available to the needy, probably using ICT and then teach them the basic health and sanitaion, using ICT? We are struggling to make the Governments realise the worth and need for good governance, transparency and accountability, to create a level playing field, alleviate poverty and acieve UN MDGs; and hardly we are able to make an impact. Why don't you guys direct your energies for some truly benificial activities thatwould help improve the quality of human life, in the short term and long term? With malice to none. Kris Dev. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Laptop for $100- a debate
gly valid) concerns. The Negropointe machine may not suffer so much from those who are taking value away from it as those who are questioning its value...if it truly has value, it should be able to stand up those critics and shine, yes? That is what testing a product against the market is all about...and what Negropointe should have been looking forward to after a UN-backed demonstration of the would-be product with such publicity. Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] $100 Laptop
Cindy: "Speculation" or "foresight" ...it still doesn't make that posting relative (as I see it) to the question of whether a $100 laptop is a useful tool for a child. Nor does it suggest that a TV or a community technology center may be a more viable alternative, as you proposed when you posted the link. As to how much computing power a child needs, I would answer: A lot. As much as possible. As much as is necessary to get them online, to make resources available to them, to wash away the constraints on teaching systems and delivery systems and pedagogical obstacles. I am trying, as much as possible, to see this from the point of view of an end-user. I believe that mobile telecommunications is important, simply because it has the potential to include all of the things you ask for in your post: support, training, documentation, and Taran's concern about material. Whether it's in a box called a TV or a smaller box called a laptop is a commercial / industrial decision...and while we're on that topic, there seem to be several pervasive arguments for using smaller form factors. Power / efficiency ratios are one. Weight and portability is another. Either way, I don't see it as relevant to this discussion. Taran: I disagree with you on one point...you question the advent of the $100 laptop design when there is a lack of sufficient materials available for it. I agree...there is certainly a lack of available raw material to feed into a laptop-based curriculum for a developing nation. However, I feel that the laptop much come first, before the curricula. Otherwise, we're asking why we're building a car when we don't have highway rest stops yet. Curricula are secondary in the development process because they are easier to develop, require less investment and technical resources, and because there are already many groups committed to producing it...and it can also be scaled down indefinitely, so that even an interested teacher can develop materials for her class. No teacher, or group of teachers, could build the laptop to run it on, though. Hardware traditionally suffers from a high investment and low levels of interest from corporations large enough to sponsor such development. This makes hardware the stumbling block in the development process. If the hardware is made available, then the course materials can be developed immediately afterwards...otherwise, we don't even know what hardware specifications we're supposed to be developing for. Course materials, though primary from the point of view of imparting education, are secondary to the development and availability of hardware and other infrastructure components in the development model. I share your concern, of course...it would be nice to have some kind of guarantee that the supporting actors would do their parts if our prima dona manages to produce. However, I don't see many ways around the hardware-first model. Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Cindy Lemcke-Hoong wrote: Hello Dave, Actually, it doesn't...it's a speculation on the direction of communications technology, and on what the next milestones might be. We can call it 'speculation' or we can call it 'foresight'. But one thing we should look it is the practicality of how much 'power/memory' a person really need? Especially if we are talking about CHILD? I can understand about all the arguement about upskilling of technologies etc., and that infact is even more important one should think about upgrades etc. What is easier to deal with ... distributed model or centralized model? especially the kind of audiences and environment we are looking at AT PRESENT (overtime situation would change of course). Telecenters and using TV as access tool -- My question has always been: why do we need a PC? Most of the answers I would receive these days is: get to the internet. In that case, then we are looking at a tool to access internet. NOT a lap-top per se. Any tool. A way to get to information. In that case, one should provide a solution that is as holistic as possible. A solution that not only provide access to the internet, but also able to train the end-users, support the end-users etc. Let's envision their environment. NOT our environment. Think what a child would need. NOT the needs of well educated, and perhaps with good income adults. Except for a sigle posting, I wish there are more participants from the field. Then we would be able to hear from the horses' mouths. (not intended as insult!) Cindy [EMAIL PROTECTED] = [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/lis
Re: [DDN] Laptop for $100- a debate
Excellent post, Chris. I think a distinction to be made here is between the countries paying for the laptops themselves and the end-users paying for them. I was thinking of this as being more in line with projects where a community technology center or school or other institution acquires the machines and distributes them, at little or no cost, to the end-users. The end-users cannot be asked to pay for technology...development initiatives cannot work on such a commercial mindset, because if they could (and if these people could afford it) then there would be no need for the development initiative in the first place. But you're right in that there is a cost, at some level, which some government entity has to pay. In this case, the model is that the have-nots in these nations are receiving equipment paid for by the tax dollars of the haves. Not a model without its merits, since so much development work depends on such models. This makes it a valid argument to ask if such expenditure is worthwhile. I would agree that the money would be better spent on teacher (re)training, if a choice were forced. However, shouldn't the ideal be to balance educational initiatives...spending your educational budget on training and equipment and everything in between? I agree with the voices that have marked the Negropointe machine as being a lot of marketing hype surrounding very little substance, at present...much planning, little proof of concept. But the reality is that there is a need for affordable, mobile technology to address digital divide issues, and that this need is not being addressed. Perhaps the Simputer needs to be resurrected? I believe a solution lies closer to the Simputer than the Negropointe machine, but I believe that both are examples of a movement in the right direction...to develop affordable technology for development causes. I feel the latter fails in that it has become too commercial a venture, which appears to be influencing its development and initiative...how long before such a company sells out? How long before they require a MS operating system, because MS gave them a cut, or locks users in to SBCAfrica's DSL service? The Simputer seems a much more elegant model, in that light, though it may have suffered from the lack of marketing and awareness that seems to plague many initiatives designed with open source or open architecture in mind. D. ------- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Chris Wilson wrote: Dear Mr. Jha, On Mon, 2005-11-28 at 20:33 -0500, Satish Jha wrote: Nicholas Negroponte has done it once again. He has capyured the imagination of the world interested in bridging the digital divide by talking about a laptop for $100 and creating a vision of One Laptop Per Child (OLPC). Might you perhaps, one day, feel like answering Taran's questions about the $100 laptop, rather than yet again telling us what a wonderful idea it is without any factual backing whatsoever? Interestingly while the organised world has responded positively to his strategy, the activists in the space see it is intrusive from someone who does not listen to teh ground. Presumably you classify the Chilean government as a bunch of disorganised activists: [http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2005-11-04-022-26-NW-HW-PB] It has been called "top-down", elitist, redundant, another way of MIT usurping the people's movement by using its branding power, a plain bad machine that does not meet the requirement If true, these are valid criticisms. I have seen no evidence that persuades me that they are not. Some say the funds may have been allocated for better purposes. Mae West once said "well, they would say that, wouldn't they?" But $100 million is a huge chunk of most countries' educational budgets. It would pay for the (re)training of 100,000 teachers in the poorest countries, which would be much more likely to have a positive impact on education than an infinite number of glorified green calculators. Just the intensity of reaction is a amazing. Reminds me of the green revolution days when there were people who were busy leading it and a bunch of critics who could see little right about it and now the critics have faded and all of us are reaping the benefits of having gon through it. Oh, and where is this green revolution now? Is our petroleum consumption going down? Or energy use? Have we stopped cutting down the rainforests? Are we not testing genetically modified plants in the wild? Have we improved our environment in any way at all since we all started smoking pot and making peace signs? The critics didn't fade. They got organised instead of getting stoned. They got elected on promises of tax cuts and cutting red tape. And then they silently squished the so-called "green revolution"
Re: [DDN] $100 Laptop
Cindy: Actually, it doesn't...it's a speculation on the direction of communications technology, and on what the next milestones might be. It's an interesting posting, but the kinds of collaborative mind-mapping he's talking about are closely related to a resurgence of the client-server model instead of the more distributed model of current computing. This is independent of the mode of delivery...nothing in that article suggests "telecenter" or "television" specifically, but could work equally well with any mode of delivery, including the personal computer. Satish: I found your post, and Arun's response, to be interesting. I would agree with you that the computer was not, originally, a bottom-up design...it was descended from mainframes built on a centralized computing model, with a vague vision that being able to put one of these in a person's home might be interesting and profitable for the company concerned. However, would you argue that the internet isn't a bottom-up design? We're fighting for net neutrality here in the US precisely to keep it that way. Similarly, while the development of the personal computer was originally via a top-down approach, I would argue that it's current growth is purely bottom-up. New products are targetted very specifically at their audiences, after a tremendous amount of research, or they simply fail as marketed products. While it may be possible in some arenas (especially in a less industrialized market) to impose market conditions from above, this is not something that can be sustained indefinitely. The development of the blog, the wiki, the content management system, and of course, anything and everything open source are arguments that these technologies are now market-driven. This laptop debate has gone on for too long, I think. We've moved away from discussing the merits of the Negropointe machine, or even the merits of similar initiatives, and onto discussions of whether a laptop is a valid idea when populations are starving. Mark Warschauer's post is illuminating. The laptop we're discussing is not being proposed as a panacea for digital divide issues, but as an idea that may be a component towards some of our goals. It's certainly not being proposed as a solution to world hunger, or world poverty, though it may play a part in those issues as well, simply as a side-effect of being an empowering tool. I also think it is important to seperate the idea of affordable, mobile telecommunications (which has been around for years) from this project specifically. Is this project going to realize the potential of the ideas they've espoused? Only time will tell. I think this project in particular may have some interesting caveats (such as the $500m minimum investment) which may sink it, coming from too commercial an interest; however the idea, in and of itself, is valuable. The announcement of the idea at such a publicised event may be pointless in that it draws attention to a product which may or may not have such merit, but it is valuable in that it gets people (ourselves included) talking about affordable mobile technology initiatives and their potential, and I maintain that this is not (and cannot be) a bad thing. As educated consumers, we can dispel the marketing hype around the Negropointe machine with our usual cynicism...but to do so is to not do justice to the idea of the Simputer, which was built around some of the same idealogy. The criticism of the Negropointe machine has moved beyond a specific criticism of the machine in question, and into a criticism of the idea of a $100 laptop, which I think is absurd...how can we criticise the idea of providing mobile, networked computing at a significantly lower price point than is currently available? Arguing that children are starving in Africa is irrelevant, unless we mean to say that addressing the digital divide is irrelevant because there are other, more deserving causes out there, in which case we should disband the DDN altogether. When the Negropointe machine is put in the hands of these starving children, and then we walk away without giving them training or support, then those criticisms will be valid; however, this does not seem to have ever been suggested, except by critics of the plan. So, what shall it be? Should we discuss the specifics of this project as a viable, marketable commodity, or should we discuss the general ideology of the $100 laptop, or both (as long as we make the distinction between the two)? Or, neither, and lay this topic to rest? I must admit the latter appeals to me. Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Cindy Lemcke-Hoong wrote: Below is an interesting blog posting by Dave Pollard of How to Save the World. It sup
Re: [DDN] $100 laptop and seeds
Perhaps throwing out seeds isn't random, but directed...if the idea is to saturate the plain with seeds, then the seed-scattering is far from random. Secondly, what good is water and scarecrows without those seeds? These are considerations that must be addressed *along* with the need for scattering seeds. They all work together to produce a tree. Focusing on one to the exclusion of all other considerations is as ineffective as pointing to these other concerns as reasons not to address any one concern. D. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Cindy Lemcke-Hoong wrote: Patricia Perkins -- Terry King's analogy about seeds Telecenters is not just the idea of sow seeds, but actually is practical way of looking at what IS possible in certain environment. I would think it is more appropriate to think of telecenters as as 'bed' for germinations? Where cares and supports are readily available? Giving away a lap-top to every child in this world without the basic elements to support them, is just like THROWing seeds out randomly and PRAY there will be rain, and there will not be hungry birds nearby ... ??? Cindy [EMAIL PROTECTED] = [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
[DDN] [Drupal] [GIS] GoogleMaps Module Proof of Concept
Hello, lists, I received this from a fellow VISTA recently, and thought it might be of interest to the greater CTCNet and DDN communities, since we've had GIS-related discussions before. It refers to the custom creation of a module (add-on) for the Drupal CMS (a FL/OSS content management system that a lot of us are using...scalable, flexible, and incredibly easy to manage / administer). Anyone's who's interested should respond to Ben directly, especially if you'd like to collaborate with him on the project. Dave. Original Message Subject: [comnetVISTA] GoogleMaps Module Proof of Concept Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 15:09:17 -0500 From: Ben Sheldon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi everone, I am developing an easy to use GoogleMap API implementation for Community Mapping (and anything else that needs a map) using the Drupal Content Management System [drupal.org]. I'm really excited about this (I hacked it up over Thanksgiving break) and would like to demonstrate it at a very early stage to see if there is any external interest in a tool like this. Basically, this Drupal module allows you to easily define markers on a Google Map, give info for the marker, and link it to a larger article. Markers can be categorized and assigned a different icon (all very easily). I have an example up and running on my personal blog: http://island94.org/node/15 (warning, may choke in Internet Explorer--I'm trying to fix that) Content with location data (latitude/longitude I get from the URL on maps.google.com) is assigned a category (photos, vlogs, random stuff, my fallout shelter project, whatever), and automatically mapped with a custom icon (e.g.photos have a tiny camera in the icon). My examples are blog related (i.e. photos, random stuff), but it is no effort to map playgrounds, access points or anything else you would want. I would love to hear any comments you might have, and any suggestions. Also let me know if this would be useful to you as I want to help meet the needs of people other than myself. I am working furiously on getting lines supported (I want to map my commute to work), address level geocoding (no need for exact lat/long) and also text windows above the markers can be a little wonky. I hope you like it, Ben -- Ben Sheldon [EMAIL PROTECTED] **Meet AmeriCorps @ ServiceSpeak.org** ___ cnvista mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://cpcs.umb.edu/mailman/listinfo/cnvista -- --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] $100 laptop
Why does a laptop prevent children from working together? I would argue that an affordable, real laptop with useful features would be an incredible boon to community technologists. Firstly, because community networking, via laptop or desktop, is still networking between members of a community...meaning that it is a collaborative process instead of an alienating one. Secondly: In poorer regions all over the world, laptops have potential as mobile telecommunications equipment, with or without an internet connection. If a nonprofit in India wishes to go out and teach basic digital literacy in a village, how do they do it? Villagers are not going to travel many miles every day for this learning, no matter how motivated they are (it is simply impossible, for most of them), and yet to relocate to their village means that your work is suddenly limited in scope to that one village, and perhaps a few closely neighboring ones. Your literacy programs are succeeding, because your educators travel to where the programs are most needed and make it possible for people to take part, and your travelling theater program and women's empowerment programs and everything else all report similar success, based on a similar mobility. Your digital literacy program, by comparison, is firmly anchored in your center, inaccessible and unavailable to all but those who live closest to you. How do you address this problem, if not with affordable, sustainable portable computing technologies? Even if you did convert and use television equipment, your grassroots efforts targetting the poorest of the poor would still be doomed to fail, or at least crippled in scope, for lack of mobility. If you are attempting to reach a geographically spread out population, and cannot afford to simply set up, staff, and maintain a computing center in every physical location, perhaps there is a gap that is perfectly filled with the concept of a mobile computing facility. And a mobile computing facility becomes more readily available as an option to budget-conscious nonprofits as the cost of mobile telecommunications equipment comes down. D. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Cindy Lemcke-Hoong wrote: Hello Ken, The bottom line is that people value most the things that cost them most I cannot agree more! Recently I VOLUNTERED and set up an online workshop for a group of teachers in China. Out of the 7 agreed to beta test the program, ONLY 2 made any effort to register, AND not a single one did any postings as required for the class. I am sure if they had to pay for the training, they would have been there. Actually the price tag is what 'the seller' try to impress the world. Personally I am not looking at price-tag, but how useful is giving something to someone that might be completely useless because of issues such as infrastructures, training , tech support etc. etc. etc. Most of all how many really need a full-features lap-top? A telecenter such as what you/HP provides makes a lot more sense. Remember 'the water cooler'? The real business world try to bring people together to share knowledge, and here we are giving each child a lap-top and deprive them the opportunities to work together. Cindy [EMAIL PROTECTED] = [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] $100 laptop
I believe Taran's critique was not aimed at the idea of a $100 laptop...it was aimed at the idea of "$100 laptop" being used as a marketing term, when we're actually talking about a minimum investment of $100 million, with the company concerned not even committed to beginning production on anything other than a pre-alpha, concept model scale till they hit a $500 million initial investment. There were people on this list who took the bait, and emailed in to ask where they could get such miraculous machines. Didn't the subject line catch everyone's eye? Didn't everyone wonder for a second if it was true? This is the essence of deceptive marketing. I agree with Taran: this excessively commercial model will not be the answer to digital divide issues in developing nations. However, the concept of the $100 laptop has the potential to break a great many barriers to entry to the digital world. I believe this initiative is a step in the right direction, just as it was a step in the right direction for the telecoms in the US to get behind broadband internet. The technologies, at those price points, are worth aiming for. The challenge is in doing this via a sustainable, scalable system, which I am convinced can only be done using open standards. Negropointe's project may not be the answer, but something much closer to an answer may develop as a result...if nothing else, at least there is now more publicity for the fact that very large corporations believe the $100 laptop can be a profitable product. There are large populations in the world who are in need of food and clothing, but also large populations who are in need of a digital education. For these populations, the advent of cheaper technology can only be a blessing. I look forward to the day when the $100 laptop is a reality...in the sense that a nonprofit in Africa can send off for an order that's the right size for them, receive them promptly, and have support infrastructure in place to help them maximize their use of it, both initially and over the product's lifecycle. D. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Sadeque Hussain wrote: Taran Rampersad, It sounds every time you discourage the $100 laptop. whats wrong with this? There are some social thinkers and community welfare minded people in our group. And they have something especial to contribute into particular community and I dont think this is a bad idead. How you can understand of a poor persons need, need of NGOs unless you are interested in! We know, every single dollar is worthy and hard to earn and at the same time, there is a social and morale responsibility too. Sadeque, Taran Rampersad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Amy Kenyon wrote: My feeling about all the naysayers is that it is better to be the cheerleader of a great cause that fails then the naysayer of one that succeeds. I agree, and I'll add that it is better to be a cheerleader of a real cause than to be a cheerleader of one that isn't real. Personally, I think I look funny in a skirt and pom-poms, and I worry that someone might disagree. Giving every kid on the planet a laptop is a wonderful idea, just like feeding them might be a grand idea. Clothing and shoes might be useful as well. The inherent problems with these laptops have not been addressed by any of the cheerleaders - or Negroponte for that matter. Sure, the song has a nice beat but the lyrics are really lacking. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Re: $100 laptop
aligned with. But a criticism of the cause of digital literacy cannot be an effective analysis of its tools. And, as a justification of the cause, I would point out that there are audiences that are not in need of a pencil. There are vast populations that are eager and ready for digital education, and find the lack of it their main obstacle to social mobility. Taran, if you provide food and shoes and clean water, you sustain populations. Providing a digital education (assuming these other needs are met) could trigger a model of self-sufficiency, where populations can begin to sustain themselves. Give a man a fish, but also teach a man to fish...and the hunger of the man in question is not relevant to our discussion of various fishing rods. D. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Cindy Lemcke-Hoong wrote: Reading some of the discussions on this list, somehow they give me the impression some of the members on this list is still using FIRST world tools to solve 3rd world problems. (Sorry to use the terms first and 3rd worlds). Not that long ago I wrote about children in some African countries do not even have paper to write on. They do not have money to buy pencil and exercise books. They use twig to trace and practice writing on the chair/sandy ground they are sitting on. They have no chairs nor tables, and if their parents do not have money to buy them a uniform they are not even allow to attend class. So what would you do? Buy them a uniform so that they can at least attend the class? Help them to furnish their classroom with chairs and desks so that they can have something to sit on? OR would you give these same children with the $100 lap-top with FLASH animations? Do you think this same child would know how to use Google to search for information? Furthermore, $100 might be dirt cheap in our world. The same $100 is a lot of money in thier world. What would you want to provide them first with? In my opinion, if anyone wishes to, they can turn the TV termnal into a very useful interactive tool. IF one can use TV monitor to play games, why can it not use the same TV monitor and turn it into a computer screen? What is the different between TV and PC? TV is sending, computer is both send and receive. I am sure some smart person from MIT or the like, IF THEY REALLY WANT TO, can come up with a device. It would also make much more sense to create telecenters. Giving each child a lap-top, you are looking at a ' distributed model' that is composed of millions and millions of lap-tops. How are you going to service them? or train the users? It would make much more sense to create 'centralized model/telecenters' and have the users come to the center to use the facilities. Not only it is easier to control and manage, one can also start creating job for local populations to man the telecenters. Cindy [EMAIL PROTECTED] = [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: RE : [DDN] Re: $100 laptop
I would argue that the computer is a much more useful form of delivery than a TV set. Indeed, with the advent of municipal wireless, more and more traditional TV content will be delivered via broadband in any case. I'll give you an example, impossible with TVs...what if an organization were to build a flash-based, attractively animated computer game teaching basic math skills? Could the child in a poor village in India, if she had access to a laptop and such software, find more of an attraction to it than to her textbooks? Undoubtedly. Could a child conceivably learn math faster, and be more motivated to learn math, as a result of playing math games than studying / learning the more traditional (and hence, to a child, boring) problems from a text book? TV is, by definition, non-interactive. Flash, on the other hand, like most computer technologies, is interactive. This makes Flash and other similar tools extremely useful in the field of educational software targeted at children and youth. Incidentally, the learning curve is an important part of why a laptop is a more useful method of delivery. In the US, many children become computer-literate without realizing it, without ever taking formal training classes, without ever being told they are part of a digital literacy education initiative. They don't remember when they became computer-literate...unlike in India, where I can remember clearly when I first got my hands on a computer, when I learned how to click and double-click a mouse (so alien to my DOS experience) and when I began to learn how a GUI represented a computer system and resources. This is because the computer learning curve becomes incidental, secondary to the primary objective, which is to teach math (or english, or hindi / urdu, or anything else) ...the idea is that the teaching is important, and teaching the student the incidental skills of pressing an enter key or entering numbers by pressing them on the keyboard becomes a byproduct. Eventually, this expands, almost without direct intervention, into a working knowledge of how to use the computer, how to find and launch programs, how to find the games that most interest them, how to get online, how to communicate with other users...and, eventually, how to use the languages of the computer to describe, document, and share their experiences and questions. This is what we should be aiming for...the computer has an incredible amount of potential as a learning tool. You can do without Flash precisely because you have a priveledged economic and educational background, as can I. However, for a student who would otherwise lose interest in the already-limited educational opportunities they have, flash and similar technologies can be the key to producing interested, gifted learners. Dave. ------- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Adite Chatterjee wrote: Sure. But are companies really interested in creating audiovisual animations for the limited literate population, which is not really a very "lucrative" target market. Even if they are being done, isn't television a better medium to target this audience? There is less of a learning curve involved, which makes it more "user-friendly" than a computer. Adite On 11/21/05, Andy Carvin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: How about because Flash can be used to create audiovisual animations for limited literate populations? -- --- Andy Carvin Program Director EDC Center for Media & Community acarvin @ edc . org http://www.digitaldivide.net Blog: http://www.andycarvin.com --- De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] de la part de Adite Chatterjee Date: dim. 11/20/2005 11:36 À: The Digital Divide Network discussion group Objet : Re: [DDN] Re: $100 laptop "Simputer has some good ideas, but only 32M of Flash. No room for textbooks... No Keyboard." In response to the above comment, just one tiny observation: pray, WHY would an illiterate person sitting in remote Rajasthan in India- where electricity, water, housing, food is a problem, need FLASH? Despite being a savvy computer user with a privileged educational/income background, i can do without it! Adite On 11/21/05, Terry King <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: At 12:00 PM 11/20/2005 -0500, you wrote: I suppose by buying a US$100 laptop an illiterate becomes literate and exploring the Internet fulfills the curriculum of all thirty plus students in each class.!! I am of course, not under- valuing the phenomenal wealth of knowledge accessible by the same laptop but... The whole concept of the Simputer is that it was developed within the context of a 'developing' country and its design took account of the inherent priorities and encouraging/utilizing local talent. We
Re: [DDN] Re: $100 laptop
The $100 laptop is a marketing exercise, no doubt...but isn't everything? Linspire is currently moving to "sell" boxed versions of Open Office, simply because marketing will let them reach a greater number of people than the open source machine has currently reached...greater market penetration at the cost of the open source philosophy. I think this is a symptom of corporate thinking, but it's also a necessity, to some degree...a $100 laptop is, after all, competing with several other commercial manufacturers to reach potential purchasing organizations. The challenge is to develop such a model on open standards but still achieve enough market penetration to make the project viable. So many good initiatives die out simply because not enough people who could make use of it ever find out about it...a failure in marketing can easily spell the death of a project, whether it's for-profit or not, open source or not. With an open architecture and open source code, it's even harder to market, because it's hard to find the budget for a marketing machine. Oh, and to make a small correction...someone posted that the Simputer has 32 mb flash...they meant flash memory (the same memory format used in your digital camera) not Macromedia Flash, the multimedia format. It's relevant to how much the laptop can hold, not the formats it can display. And I agree with Andy...Flash, the multimedia format, is extremely useful in developing educational software and games that are platform independent and can be delivered across a mesh network or the internet from a central location...a system of delivery ideal for low-powered client machines (like the Simputer, the $100 laptop in Tunis, others) surrounding a higher-powered core machine. Lastly, in response to the poster who said she wouldn't give her hard-earned dollars to an organization that focuses on the hardware without considering the support / training issues, I disagree. Though I think the Simputer is a more appropriate solution than the Negropointe initiative, I still think that hardware projects of both types are necessary. No organization can provide the complete solution to digital literacy issues...you can always point out something that is lacking, and then ask the related "who is going to" question. The solution can only come from partnerships between organizations...one group to develop appropriate hardware, one group to engage in advocacy for municipal wireless, one group to engage in computer training (using the first group's hardware on the network made possible by the second group), another to provide training and support to the staff of this third group, etc...the network of people and organizations is the solution. To criticize one group for failing to provide a service that is / will be / should be provided by another seems meaningless, from this perspective. I could just as easily point to CTCNet Chicago and ask what the point of our work is if we don't provide hardware to our component organizations...or point to Dell and ask why they're donating equipment to community technology centers if they won't also fund our marketing efforts or train our staff for us. To place such scrutiny on one node of the network is to lose sight of the meaning - and the potential - of the network. D. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Taran Rampersad wrote: Terry King wrote: At 12:00 PM 11/20/2005 -0500, you wrote: I suppose by buying a US$100 laptop an illiterate becomes literate and exploring the Internet fulfills the curriculum of all thirty plus students in each class.!! I am of course, not under- valuing the phenomenal wealth of knowledge accessible by the same laptop but... The whole concept of the Simputer is that it was developed within the context of a 'developing' country and its design took account of the inherent priorities and encouraging/utilizing local talent. We [including the UN] should, I believe, be orienting all our energies -- and funds to encouraging that area of development in developing countries. A few thoughts: - MIT is not asking the UN or others for donations, that I heard, for the laptops themselves. Countries would buy them at the $100 figure in large quantities. - The MIT design will be mainly sold as a TEXTBOOK. It has 1 Gb Flash and will have localized language texts and resources preloaded. The Internet expands the offerings. The mesh network provides local collaboration between students and teachers at the village level. - Simputer has some good ideas, but only 32M of Flash. No room for textbooks... No Keyboard. I ran a browser and word processor on the Beta.. they were pretty darn fast on the 1/2 Ghz processor.. You should try running things on the Simputer. You'd be amazed at what 32 m
[DDN] Re: [ctcnet] openoffice drawing competition
I second the proposal...I think it's an excellent idea. While I'm a lowly and poor vista, and can't contribute much by way of cash, I'd be happy to put a little time into online aspects of the project, as needed. Anyone else? D. ------- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Phil Shapiro wrote: hi everyone - the thought occurred to me that there's an excellent opportunity for some entity (such as CTCNet) to hold a competition soliciting the best drawings created with openoffice draw. a cash prize of several hundred dollars could fire up the creative neurons of a lot of high school and college students out there. (and the competition would be open to adults, and younger students, too.) if CTCNet ran such a competition, it would likely get a link from the openoffice web site and from some news web sites. the visibility of that would be good for CTCNet. put me down for $50 towards the prize money for such an award. if this award were an annual award, CTCNet could give out cash prizes for lots of different age categories. thousands of free software advocates would gladly make $10 and $20 paypal donations towards such awards. meanwhile, all the entries to such a competition could be assembled on a free blog -- and would showcase the capabilities of this very useful software. - phil ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
[DDN] Re: [ctcnet] openoffice drawing competition
Hmmm...while I agree with the idea that a competition is exclusive, I also believe that a competition is encouraging of participation. It's just a question of where we see our target audience. In a world where millions of people are well-versed with open office, suggesting a competition is exclusive...but if this were the case, a competition wouldn't be necessary to promote participation in the first place. In a world where too few people are even aware of open office, a competition is encouraging. A child becomes aware of this competition, and becomes simultaneously aware that few or none of his peers are familiar with the software. It's a level playing field. Instead of being surrounded by children who are OO experts, he feels that this is something new, something interesting, something that anyone with a grasp of MS Office can learn and master in no time, and something even newcomers can learn with a little work. Isn't this an inclusive paradigm? I'm adding the DDN network to this email, with the preceding conversation quoted below, since I'm sure many others there will be interested in contributing to this dialogue. D. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Ken Rafanan wrote: I think this is an excellent kernel of an idea to expand and advertise the use of open source tools. The idea of a "competition," however, gives me pause. Competitions sometimes have a tendency to restrict participation to the few who think that they have a chance of "winning." Perhaps we (and this community is more than capable) can come up with models of participation are more cooperative where the advantages of a competition are preserved while the disadvantages avoided. The first thought that came to me is a virtual mural project (where everyone's participation is rewarded and even necessary to the success of the project). Maybe even a hybrid model where the most popular tiles (quasi-winners) are more prominent but are easily seen within the context of everyone's work. cheers, Ken Rafanan Phil Shapiro wrote: hi everyone - the thought occurred to me that there's an excellent opportunity for some entity (such as CTCNet) to hold a competition soliciting the best drawings created with openoffice draw. a cash prize of several hundred dollars could fire up the creative neurons of a lot of high school and college students out there. (and the competition would be open to adults, and younger students, too.) if CTCNet ran such a competition, it would likely get a link from the openoffice web site and from some news web sites. the visibility of that would be good for CTCNet. put me down for $50 towards the prize money for such an award. if this award were an annual award, CTCNet could give out cash prizes for lots of different age categories. thousands of free software advocates would gladly make $10 and $20 paypal donations towards such awards. meanwhile, all the entries to such a competition could be assembled on a free blog -- and would showcase the capabilities of this very useful software. - phil ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
[DDN] Microcenter + Desktop Linux
Hello all, Microcenter just decided to support desktop Linux in a much bigger way. Though they've had desktop linux machines in the past, they've generally been random configurations, very low-profile, and very non-advertised...you had to find a posting on a hot deals forum somewhere to even know about it, usually. The latest Linspire newsletter was written by Kevin Jones, VP of Microcenter Merchandising. He reflects that to offer such a product without having sales and support staff who can demo it on the floor for customers is to do it a disservice. He also notes an customer survey that says that 75% of their customers would be open to trying desktop linux. (75%!) He claims that MCenter now offers desktop linux configurations (based on Linspire, I'm fairly certain) with trained sales staff to let customers demo software and make ease-of-use evaluations. I think this is a big step forward. I saw a sample config of a desktop Linux machine for $300, at a more modern configuration than the organization posted to the lists recently (retropc, i think?)...and Microcenter is also a much more "known" retail chain. In Chicago, most people who're looking for budget computer deals are heading to either Fry's (out in the burbs) or Microcenter. Though a good deal from Dell can land you with an XP Home machine for about the same price, most consumers are still buying computers by walking into a store and looking around and asking questions...something I tend to forget most of the time, living online as much as I do. If this is sold as a "computer + operating system + office suite for $300" ...the price difference between 'nix and MS becomes a major selling point. Here's the specs on the $300 model:: 1415; AMD® Sempron Processor 2200+ (1.5GHz); 256MB DDR-333 RAM; 40GB 7,200RPM Hard Drive; Combo DVD-ROM/CD-RW Drive; Integrated S3 Pro Savage 8 Video Chipset; 10/100 Network Adapter; Linspire OS v4.5; Monitor Not Included Here's the full newsletter: http://www.linspire.com/linspireletter More from Linspire: http://tinyurl.com/ak5wm Prices ranges (according to the second article) from $200-$500. As an interesting side-note, I'd suggest that a major retail chain shifting to include Linux and quoting an internal customer survey to state that three quarters of their customers would be open to switching is a very solid argument for teaching open sourced software in community technology centers. Though this may not signal the beginning of the revolution of 'nix conversions, it most certainly signals a future in which the cross-platform capacity of your skillset is as important as the skills themselves. Though of course, Macintosh building OS X on the Darwin core (which is a BSD, if i remember right) is also a strong indicator of this. D. -- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 -- ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
[DDN] The Sony Virus
Hello world, I've been reading recently about Sony's move to secretly install software on user's PCs to limit use of their CDs...ostensibly to prevent piracy, but it also apparently prevents using anything other than Sony software to play music, and prevents use of protected content on an Ipod or other mp3 player. Apparently, Sony refuses to disclose which CDs contain the software, though I've also heard rumors that they're releasing a removal tool under the pressures of public scrutiny and bad press. The tool, as far as I know (no personal experience, since I boycotted the music industry years ago) is cloaked. Seems to fit all the definitions of a virus to me, right? Incidentally, the EFF reports the software to be buggy, to slow down computer performance, and to cause crashes. You'd think Sony'd at least hire some decent spyware writers to code for them, right? Here's the EFF article, snipped from their most recent email update. There's also a link at the bottom to email in stories if you've been affected by this, to facilitate possible legal action. If you're operating a CTC and allow users to play music from their own CDs, you may have machines that are infected (given the large portion of the CD market that Sony / BMG controls)...you may also want to post this article in your labs, and / or encourage end-users to submit individual complaints. Submitting a complaint as an organization might be more effective. * Are You Infected with Sony-BMG's Rootkit? EFF Confirms Secret Software on 19 CDs San Francisco - News that some Sony-BMG music CDs install secret rootkit software on their owners' computers has shocked and angered thousands of music fans in recent days. Among the cause for concern is Sony's refusal to publicly list which CDs contain the infectious software and to provide a way for music fans to remove it. Now, the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) has confirmed that the stealth program is deployed on at least 19 CDs in a variety of genres. The software, created by First 4 Internet and known as XCP2, ostensibly "protects" the music from illegal copying. But in fact, it blocks a number of legal uses--like listening to songs on your iPod. The software also reportedly slows down your computer and makes it more susceptible to crashes and third-party attacks. And since the program is designed to hide itself, users may have trouble diagnosing the problem. "Entertainment companies often complain that fans refuse to respect their intellectual property rights. Yet tools like this refuse to respect our own personal property rights," said EFF staff attorney Jason Schultz. "Sony's tactics here are hypocritical, in addition to being a security threat." If you listened to a CD with the XCP software on your Windows PC, your computer is likely already infected. An EFF investigation confirmed XCP software on 19 titles, but it's far from a complete list. Sony-BMG continues to refuse to make such a list available to consumers. Consumers can spot CDs with XCP by inspecting a CD closely, checking the left transparent spine on the front of the case for a label that says "CONTENT PROTECTED." The back of these CDs also mention XCP in fine print. You can find pictures of these and other telltale labeling at <http://www.eff.org/IP/DRM/Sony-BMG/> . "Music fans should protect themselves from this stealth attack on their computer system," said EFF Senior Staff Attorney Fred von Lohmann. For EFF's list of CDs with XCP: <http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/archives/004144.php> The "legalese rootkit" - Sony-BMG's EULA: <http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/archives/004145.php> For this release: <http://www.eff.org/news/archives/2005_11.php#004146> : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : * Sony-BMG Rootkit: EFF Collecting Stories, Considering Litigation EFF is collecting stories from EFF members and supporters who have purchased Sony-BMG CDs that contained the rootkit copy protection software. We're considering whether the effect on the public, or on EFF members, is sufficiently serious to merit EFF filing a lawsuit. If you satisfy the following criteria, we would like to hear from you: 1. You have a Windows computer; 2. First 4 Internet's XCP copy protection has been installed on your computer from a Sony CD (for more details, see our blog post referenced above or the SysInternals blog, http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/2005/10/sony-rootkits-and- digital-rights.html); 3. You reside in either California or New York; and 4. You are willing to participate in litigation. We have not made a final decision about filing any legal action, but we would like to hear from music fans who have been harmed by the Sony-BMG rootkit copy
Re: [DDN] Europe's digital divide (fwd)
Actually, Don, it's being argued that much of the rioting was instigated by blog postings and other technology-driven innovations on the part of the youth involved, ranging from mass-SMS to a giant blog site run by a radio station (will have to find the link for this). I would also argue that providing technology tools is a step in the right direction, towards empowerment. However, the ability to organize as a community can also be warped to translate into the ability to organize a riot, since this is also an extreme example of community organizing. Instead of becoming a tool of needed empowerment, I think technology is currently being portrayed as a tool of excess empowerment, to be feared by the proponents of the status quo. The media reviewed the blogging factor in the same light as media websites being hacked by radical elements, on the general theme of "youth have all of this scary technology, the police are powerless, we should all fear" ...which I think is an extremely negative, though extremely typical, media position. An example, from the Washington Post: http://tinyurl.com/e2rwu A more moderate review of blogs commenting on France from Yahoo News: http://tinyurl.com/774sr Fearmongering might hurt technology initiatives in Europe, and also pave the way for greater governmental controls / oversight on freedom of speech and access to technology, simply to prevent another France incident. How can we portray (publicly) a distinction between blogging, which is a tool several of us use and promote, and malicious hacking / defacing? As long as the two are mentioned in the same breath, and the media is shedding such negative light on blogging as a technology, we're liable to face major obstacles in promoting CTC-like work. For example, can you imagine the negative publicity if a blogger is convicted of inciting riots, and it later comes out that they learned how to use the internet, or learned how to blog, as a result of a community technology initiative? Funders will not be keen to go anywhere near that possibility. I'm worried that the word "blog" might itself be gaining very negative connotations...and media coverage of the rioting in France is going to hurt community technology efforts far more than it will open people's eyes to the positive potential inherent in technology education. D. -- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708)919-1026 -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 11/11/05 9:04:54 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Study Says Europe Has Digital Divide BRUSSELS, Belgium - A digital divide has appeared among Europeans, with age, income and education determining whether the continent's citizens use the Internet, according to a new European Union study released Thursday. Eurostat, the EU's statistics agency, said its survey which gathered information from across the 25-nation bloc revealed a digital divide, especially between the young and those over 50 years old, many of whom have never or hardly use computers or use them to go online In practical terms, I wonder how much of the current rioting in France, which is likely to spread to other "disconnected" communities in Europe, could be minimized by spreading more widely the benefits that could be derived from access to connectivity and Internet skills. Perhaps none. Perhaps some. Perhaps more in the longer term than immediately. Perhaps important. Don Samuelson Chicago ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: Fw: [Talking-Circle] Re: [DDN] You might want to off Windows update if it's set to automatic...
Hi Norma, others, My next email to the list on this issue had three links, all of which referred to specific patches and release dates. I don't really have time to find the information and re-post, but if you check back, you should be able to find it. I found those articles by using Google to search for the original article I was forwarded, and the sheer number of articles (from respected sourced) with horror stories on MS patching was enough to make me consider switching away from XP. Dave. Norma J F Harrison wrote: Hello. This is the response I got back from my tech. N. - Original Message - From: "Steve Edlen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Norma J F Harrison'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 3:10 PM Subject: RE: [Talking-Circle] Re: [DDN] You might want to off Windows update if it's set to automatic... Very interesting. Too bad he doesn't give the exact name of the patch or exactly when it came out. -Original Message- From: Norma J F Harrison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 11:29 AM To: Bbackup Subject: Fw: [Talking-Circle] Re: [DDN] You might want to off Windows update if it's set to automatic... is this of any interest? N. http://update.microsoft.com/microsoftupdate/v6/default.aspx?ln=en-us --- "Dave A. Chakrabarti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Just a note to say that you guys might want to turn off automatic updates in Windows. There's a new critical patch out that causes major problems on installation, but leaves you open to worm invasion if you leave it out. In true MS style, they note that the patch will secure you from worm action, though side effects may include deleting your network connections folder, preventing you from logging in to windows, etc. Oh, and your applications might not work, either. I'd recommend turning off automatic updates, and then applying the patch to one machine on your network to see what it does. If it looks ok, then proceeding with the update on identical machines is probably doable. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with my home machine, though. First time I've hesitated to patch since SP 2 came out, though thankfully that wasn't as painful. At this point, my home machine's crucial so I can't afford to have it wormed, but I can't afford to let the solution kill my machine, either. Time to stop being lazy and make the switch to a 'nix, I suspect. Take care, Dave. > ---> Dave A. Chakrabarti > Project Coordinator CTCNet Chicago > [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list > DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide Home Page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Talking-Circle/ Post Message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Remember Our Brother Leonard Peltier! ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Terminology & its discontents (Re: Third World)
I agree, but this often leaves open the question of defining new and appropriate terminologies for what we're trying to express. I'll use India as an example, since I'm very familiar with it (I grew up there, for the latter part of my childhood). India is extremely, ridiculously, industrialized, as a nation. India is also the world's largest democracy. India also sports a middle class with ridiculous amounts of purchasing power and a standard of living that, in many ways, far surpasses that of Western Europe or the US (do middle class Americans have chauffeurs and servants to clean their houses? Indians do, and couldn't live without them...upper middle class Indians rarely interact with the poverty you saw on National Geographic). And this brings me to the catch...India has a yawning chasm between the "middle" and the "lower" economic classes. And the "lower" economic classes comprise a very large percentage of the population. Which, given the size of the population, is a very large number of people indeed. It is easy to lose sight of this population if you are a member of a middle class that is trying to insulate itself as quickly as possible, or lose sight of the development in India if you are focusing on the poverty...but India is both, as much as it is anything. India is, in many ways, a better-than-first-world and a ridiculously-third-world nation at the same time. This dichotomy makes it very difficult to label India, and other nations like India (India is by no means alone) in terms of a category heading. This is the dilemma in finding a vocabulary for thought processes on these nations. Suggestions? D. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] Andrew Pleasant wrote: For what it is worth, when a collective term is unavoidable I use high income, low income .. and less often, economies in transition. Most often these seem simply more accurate as the reference isn't really to a state of 'development' or an alternative, and unfortunately too often implied lesser, 'world'. ap On 11/7/05, Dr. Steve Eskow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Since I know that "Third World" was chosen by the partisans of those countries themselves, and many continue to favor it, I've been using "Third World" regularly. I think, however, that Don Osborn is right, and that the term has grown into negativity. ... ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. . ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
[DDN] Update: Windows Patching
So I went back online in an effort to find the original article I read, since I forgot to post the link in my email. And of course, I couldn't find it, given that I was online for about 24 hours straight last night. However, my reading was extremely alarming. I've been extremely busy of late, so I haven't been keeping up with regular computer maintenance issues...patching manually, defragmenting, cleaning up my desktop, etc. I've let my computer take care of itself as much as it can, and now I'm starting to realize the litterbox smells. And it may be the litterbox's fault. Here are some articles on XP / 2k patching: http://tinyurl.com/9lh96 http://tinyurl.com/8f8vb http://tinyurl.com/bpmon Two of them are from Cnet's News.com site. I'm inclined to dismiss the tone of the articles as alarmist, given that that's what online journalists so often are paid to do, and one of the sites is clearly a news aggregator designed for search engine optimization content. This still, however, leaves me with a feeling that the MS ship is sinking, slowly, and we're being comforted by being told that the iceberg we see is going to be an isolated incident. I had a client's machine that exhibited the same behavior that this patch supposedly causes...a blank login screen. I'd never seen anything like that before, and assumed it was a virus...a reformat / reinstall fixed the problem. She's not a power user, by any stretch, and would not have been using any of the "advanced security tweaks" MS claims is responsible for their patch's issues. When a company releases "patches" that have effects so close to the way a virus works that users can't tell the difference (and believe me, I'd much rather have a virus that plays "Happy Birthday" to me on the PC speaker at 3:00 every afternoon than be locked out of my Windows login screen) then I'm wondering why we're all still on this MS ship in the first place. I think I'm on the verge of becoming a Linux advocate...a shift in position from my current Open Source advocate status. D. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
[DDN] Switching to 'nix checklist
Hi Jim Craner, others, A public pondering by someone contemplating the switch to Linux: I use Itunes, Thunderbird, Sunbird, Open Office, Firefox. Itunes is probably the only application on that list that isn't going to make the switch. What could I use that would organize my 25+G of music files, and keep them organized, the way Itunes does? What kind of downtime am I looking at? Where can i find a checklist to make sure my wireless card is going to work? I'm using a Dell Poweredge server as a desktop, so I'm certain everything in it will work happily with a 'nix, though some of my add-on toys might not. What issues am I going to have? My primary concern is not having to email my boss from a friend's place to say sorry, I've been down for a day because I couldn't figure out _ ( <--insert newbie sob story here). I need to be able to share files with an OS X laptop. I know, I know, Samba, says everyone happily. But how do I set up Samba? Any tutorials? If you can point me towards even a crappy tutorial, I'll write and post a better one. This applies to everything else, too. For the benefit of other users (though these don't concern me personally on a critical level yet), I'd also like to hear responses on how easy it is to use a 'nix to share an internet connection, to act as a bridge / DHCP router / NAT / SPI firewall, to access WEP and WAP protected hotspots, to share files with XP, etc. I think it's more critical to address how difficult something is than to express that these things are possible with X distro or Y application...we can do all of these with Windows as well. The emphasis needs to be on the doability (or difficulty, as the case may be) of getting these things done. I see a steady stream of how-to articles being published on one of my sites as a direct result of this dialogue...I'm thinking this would be a very useful resource for community technologists, emerging geeks, and my fellow (and future) vistas. D. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
[DDN] Re: [ctcnet] You might want to turn off Windows update if it's set to automatic...
Hi Paula, others, Check the lower right corner of your windows desktop...you'll see an icon that looks like a shield with a white cross on it. Click on that...that's your windows security center. In there, there should be a listing for "automatic updates" ...under that, at the bottom, there should be links to manage automatic updates, virus check, firewall settings, etc. Find the one for automatic updates, and set it to notify you before doing anything, or just turn it off. A side note: It's *not* a great solution to turn this off and stop patching Windows...Windows has so many security holes that updates are absolutely crucial to keeping your machine up and running happily. On the other hand, an update that kills your machine is unacceptable. I'm not sure what to say, other than that I'm willing to sacrifice a few hours of sleep per night for the next few days to make sure I'm to speed on Linux so I can make the switch. Hope this helps, Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] Paula Cymbala wrote: Dave, Could you send me directions on how to turn off automatic updates? Thanks! Paula M. Cymbala Program Coordinator LEARN (860) 434-4890 ext. 324 http://www.learn.k12.ct.us ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
[DDN] You might want to off Windows update if it's set to automatic...
Just a note to say that you guys might want to turn off automatic updates in Windows. There's a new critical patch out that causes major problems on installation, but leaves you open to worm invasion if you leave it out. In true MS style, they note that the patch will secure you from worm action, though side effects may include deleting your network connections folder, preventing you from logging in to windows, etc. Oh, and your applications might not work, either. I'd recommend turning off automatic updates, and then applying the patch to one machine on your network to see what it does. If it looks ok, then proceeding with the update on identical machines is probably doable. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with my home machine, though. First time I've hesitated to patch since SP 2 came out, though thankfully that wasn't as painful. At this point, my home machine's crucial so I can't afford to have it wormed, but I can't afford to let the solution kill my machine, either. Time to stop being lazy and make the switch to a 'nix, I suspect. Take care, Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Project Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
[DDN] Re: [ctcnet] Environmentally Conscious (or ethical) printing thoughts - query
I agree, and second the proposal. A central space for printer reviews that isn't run by an inkjet manufacturer trying to sell ink would be wonderful. We wouldn't need a list of every printer on the market...just a central space where users can post their specific printer models and their experience with them. A simple web form would work, running off a database, with a script to automagically compile results into a directory of reviews. Anyone volunteer to run the thing? Probably not a lot of maintenance once it's up and running, but some scripting to get it set up. And I'm sure any number of us can provide a space to put it online. D. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Project Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dan Bassill wrote: It would seem to me that a group like this could serve as an informal "consumer reports" network. If someone sets up a web site with a listing of every printer on the market, and with a rating system that asks for votes showing which are the best value, longest lasting, etc., everyone else could vote their opinion. Over time the collective experience of a large group would begin to shape purchasing decisions and if people buy what lasts longest, the market will begin to move in that direction. Dan Bassill Tutor/Mentor Connection http://tutormentorconference.bigstep.com on 11/4/05 8:46 AM, Michael Maranda at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Friends, I tend to have serious misgivings whenever confronted with the purchase of printing equipment and supplies. The idea of intended obsolence or rather time limited utility of printing equipment as seems to be the modus operandi of the printing equipment and supply industry is what bothers me most. What resources are there that inform consumers and organizations as to the issues surrounding these purchases? I'm not really speaking of a consumer reports rating, but a question of costs involved alongside environmental issues such as the disposability/full replacement frameworkŠ How long should a printer last? Will you have to replace specific parts (drum)? At what interval? Will you be able to? What is done with old or replaced parts? The business model for some equipment lines is that the profit comes from sales of suppliesŠ such as tonerŠ and the actual equipment is expected not to last more than a certain period of time, with replacement of key parts being comparable to full replacement of the device. Without moving to high-end models, where I think the issues arent necessarily that different, just the direct costs possibly more easily absorbed (and accounted for by the organization) and the indirect and environmental externalities not borne (by definition) by the company aloneŠ What role do we play in DDN and CTC communities in our purchase decisions and in critique of this segment of the tech industry? What is our relation to these industries, in terms of general environmental and sustainability issues? All devices have an expected life-cycle. But is "built to last" something we can achieve in a commodity framework? How do we achieve that? Can we play a role? Regards, MM Michael Maranda President, The Association For Community Networking (AFCN) _http://www.afcn.org _Executive Director, CTCNet Chicago Chapter _http://www.ctcnetchicago.org _Co-Chair, Illinois Community Technology Coalition (ilCTC) _http://www.ilctc.org _Vice President, CAAELII _http://www.caaelii.org _Vice President, NPOTechs _http://www.npotechs.org _ Attend the* Illinois Community Technology Conference*, November 16-17, 2005. _http://www.ctcnetchicago.org/conference_ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To be removed from the list, send any message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] You received this message as a subscriber on the list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To be removed from the list, send any message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Third World
Hi Vasu, Linda, Beth, I'm not sure I agree with you here. Why does "Third World" imply such negative connotations? It may just be a difference in how we understand the semantics, but I've also used "Third World" the way a geographer or economist uses it, i.e. to mean "developing". Personally, I've often found greater beauty and more humanity in the third world than in more developed nations. I would certainly never use it in a negative sense...my emphasis in meaning has always been "developing, perhaps in alternative ways" rather than "underdeveloped" or "backwards". Beth: In terms of best practices for running a community technology center, I'd say you should focus on development and sustainability of resources, which in your case will be mostly funding. Don't forget to line up sustainable sources of in-kind donations, such as laptop-repair and consulting, or donated space to work in, etc. I would suggest creating a system where the graduates of your program contribute back to the program, either monetarily or by donating their skills to teach the next generation of students. Similarly, being able to expand so you can retain a percentage of your graduates as instructors / administrative staff would also be a good goal to keep in mind. I'm also strongly in favor of teaching open sourced technologies and philosophies...i.e. Open Office instead of MS Office, etc. I'm of the opinion that the cost of running and maintaining a lab is often much lower using open source tools, even in areas where software is not always paid for anyway...simply because open source architecture can sometimes be more robust, more scalable, and more user-supported. D. -- Dave A. Chakrabarti Project Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] Linda Ullah wrote: Vasu, I absolutely agree with you. Third World really does imply that there are multiple levels of people/countries. There are so many ways that we can use Internet technology to help the children of the world learn to understand and appreciate each other 's cultures. I'm looking for help connecting teachers and students in meaningful ways to help build tolerance and mutual respect for the future generations (as you've so well stated the need). There are many organizations and schools trying to promote projects that do foster tolerance and global understanding Here is what I've tried to do: 1. Global Project-based Learning Web Resource List: http://my-ecoach.com/online/rldevelop.php?rlid=6499&action=edit (I'd really appreciate any resources that anyone on this list would be willing to share with me. 2. Global Project-based Learning Online Course (offered though Foothill College for credit, but the course materials are open source) http://www.garlic.com/~lullah/gpbl/ 3. Monthly Global-based Learning After School Online Discussion in Tapped In: http://www.tappedin.org (Next discussion on Nov. 17 at 4:00 p.m. PST). I'd love to have you all join me for this discussion. Linda Ullah Teacher in Residence Foothill College Krause Center for Innovation [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Nov 3, 2005, at 8:36 PM, Vasu Murthy wrote: Hello everyone I dont know why every one tends to proclaim themselves as belonging to a Third World. There is only one world - as it is known to mankind and it is the earth. Donot denigrade yourself or your country or your citizens. They may be poor but not have sold their self respect to the educated few. Respect every person, every country and acknowledge the differences whether in terms of language or religion or physical features. At least in the field of education, we have to build tolerance and mutual respect for the future generations. Economics is not important when not backed with moral values and humility. Self respect is very important for any nation or group to come up in life. Sorry if I offended any person Vasu Murthy New York Nov 3, 2005 Beth Kanter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hello all, I am seeking some advice for a project we're planning to implement in Cambodia next year for The Sharing Foundation (www.sharingfoundation.org). The Sharing Foundation supports many different development projects in a small village about an hour outside of Phnom Penh. Education is at the center. We have a pre-school, support the village school, support english program and school library for K-8, a khmer literacy headstart school for poorest residents as well as high school and now college scholarships. We are hoping to add computer instruction K-8 as well as for high school/college students. Right now focusing on the K-8 - we'd like to add a mobile computer lab (using laptops) that can be used in the various locations. We're looking at all the issues (instructional support, curriculum, hardware, sof
Re: [DDN] Hardware Acquisition for ctc/computer training room in Third World
Dear Bryan, Beth, others, On the issue of laptops / desktops: While I agree that desktops are much easier to maintain than laptops, especially in a humid environment (laptops, because of their smaller form factor, have much more of a problem with heat dissipation / moisture accumulation) I'd also like to point out that a great deal of flexibility is offered in a mobile computing environment. In the US, perhaps, this isn't as relevant...it is easy (relatively) to find computing resources and internet connections across most major US cities, and even in more rural areas. In India or Cambodia, however, a mobile lab might mean the ability to deliver technology exposure / training to a village that would otherwise have no access to such technology. In so many situations, it is impossible to bring your target audience to your center in the third world (I use "Third World" to mean a developing nation). They cannot simply drive in from miles away as they do here in the US. The problem of geographic availability of services is much more acute, and the distances you can deliver a solution (and therefore, the populations you can target) are much smaller. This means that your option is either to develop a mobile solution, or develop lab spaces in every village you wish to serve. Bryan does not have quite the same problem, as he is located in a major city. I'd compare the costs of setting up a laptop-based mobile unit not with the costs of building a central, desktop-oriented space, but with the cost of setting up immobile centres in every locality you want to serve. If you're in a major city, and feel you can do this with a centralized location, then Bryan's recommendations are applicable...you don't need the extra hassles of dealing with laptop maintenance and hardware. If not, then laptops may be the only solution. Further laptop issues: Laptops are all *different*...much more different than desktops. Someone who can repair a Toshiba Satellite series machine may have no clue how to even open a Dell. This is very, very different from desktop computer hardware, and keep in mind that if you're going with donated machines, you'll likely have a random mixture of makes and models. Bryan: You're in Lake Gardens! I spent much of my childhood there, and have many fond memories. I'll have to remember to visit you next time I'm home. Hope this helps...my first posting to the list. Dave. -- Dave A. Chakrabarti Project Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] Uddami Computer Training Centre wrote: Dear Beth, Ive been helping to run an ICT in Kolkata India for several years now. Here are a few opinions based on our experience: 1) Mobile is great but the laptops will need extra planning and support. During the months of high heat and humidity you will have to protect them with greater care than a desktop machine. We have problems during the months of September/October when the humidity seems to be greatest here. If you have a mobile air-conditioned environment, great. Otherwise you will need to keep the laptops wrapped when not in use and have fans going when in operation to keep them from accumulating moisture. 2) Laptops require greater expertise to repair than desktops so before bringing them into the country make sure you know of someone who definitely can repair them. Bring spare parts also if possible 3) In general we prefer to purchase in country. This is because most of the donated computers are not worth shipping that far, going through customs and other hassles versus what can be bought here. Of course India has a much larger domestic market for computers than Cambodia. You also might have more control over the quality of the computers than over a typical donation. Perhaps you could purchase in India or Thailand and then bring in? I would really think hard about how to make your center mobile. Desktops are much cheaper, more reliable and easier to keep running than laptops in these challenging environments. Good Luck bryan forst Uddami Computer Training Centre [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.uddami.org/uctc ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
