Re: Programming in D book is about 88% translated
On 06/28/2013 08:16 PM, Rob T wrote: On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 02:02:26 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote: http://ddili.org/ders/d.en/index.html Awesome! I continue to make use of your online book, so having these new chapters in a language I can read is very much welcome news. teşekkür Güzel sözler için ben teşekkür ederim. :) Ali
Re: Programming in D book is about 88% translated
On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 02:02:26 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote: I have continued with the translation of the book [snip] excellent. Keep up the good work Ali!
Re: Programming in D book is about 88% translated
On 6/28/2013 7:35 PM, Ali Çehreli wrote: Thinking that it is free enough, I had chosen this: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/ Just let me know if it is limiting in any way. This is just awesome! Thank you, Ali!
Re: dlibgit updated to libgit2 v0.19.0
On 6/28/2013 9:10 AM, Dicebot wrote: On Friday, 28 June 2013 at 16:00:57 UTC, Andrej Mitrovic wrote: Deimos is an overhead which provides no benefits. It was supposed to be used to make discovery easy, but discovery can be done through a wiki, or dlang.org, or an automated process (dub). Deimos provides all the usual benefits of using github for projects. I used to maintain a page with a list of links to D related projects. It regularly suffered from links going out of date, domain names being abandoned and then taken up by porn sites, projects simply disappearing, no consistent way for users to contribute to those projects, etc. I suspect with time Deimos will be completely superseeded by dub or whatever tool becomes standard package manager for D. However, it should not be simply discarded because: 1) right now dub is not an official dlang.org project, but Deimos is 2) it is a certain brand name which gives promises about aggregated bindings - all Deimos bindings are thin 1-to-1 reflections of their C origin. In that sense, I would have expected Deimos become part of dub registry at some point, preferrably as a separate package category. But they should not loose identity of Deimos project. https://github.com/D-Programming-Deimos
Re: Announcing bottom-up-build - a build system for C/C++/D
On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 00:59:15 +0200, John Colvin wrote: On Thursday, 27 June 2013 at 00:10:37 UTC, Graham St Jack wrote: Having side-by-side comparisons of D against bash scripts and C++ modules had the effect of turning almost all the other team members into D advocates. Any chance we could know what team this is? (Sorry if this is common knowledge) It is the development team at my previous workplace. I haven't asked them for permission, so I would rather not say who they are. David Bryant (the previous poster) was a member of that team though, and he will be happy to provide details.
Re: Programming in D book is about 88% translated
Am Fri, 28 Jun 2013 19:02:25 -0700 schrieb Ali Çehreli acehr...@yahoo.com: I have continued with the translation of the book. There are 82 of the 718 pages still to be translated. (However, I still need to write the UDA chapter.) Ali Nice work! BTW: The link to wiki4d on this page http://ddili.org/ders/d.en/intro.html could be updated to http://wiki.dlang.org/Editors and / or http://wiki.dlang.org/IDEs
Re: DConf 2013 Closing Keynote: Quo Vadis by Andrei Alexandrescu
I agree with your post, I just want to make a couple of minor corrections. On 6/27/2013 4:58 AM, Leandro Lucarella wrote: Do you really think C++ took off because there are commercial implementations? I got into the C++ fray in the 1987-88 time frame. At the time, there was a great debate between C++ and Objective-C, and they were running neck-and-neck. I was casting about looking for a way to get a competitive edge with my C compiler, and investigated. Objective-C was put out by Stepstone. They wanted royalties from anyone who implemented a clone, and kept a tight fist over the licensing. C++ only existed in its ATT cfront implementation. I wrote a letter to ATT's lawyers, asking if I could create a C++ clone, and they phoned me up and were very nice. They said sure, and I wouldn't have to pay any license or royalties. So I went with C++. I don't really know if cfront was open source at the time or not, but I never looked at its source. I think cfront source came with a paid license for unix, but I'm not positive. Anyhow, I wound up implementing the first native C++ compiler for the PC. Directly afterward, C++ took off like a rocket. Was it because of Zortech C++? I think there's strong evidence it was. A lot of programmers turned up their noses at the peasants programming on DOS, but that's where the action was in the 1980's, and ZTC++ had no realistic competitors. You could also see the results in Usenet. Postings about C++ and O-C were neck-and-neck until ZTC++ came out, and then things tilted heavily in C++'s favor, and O-C disappeared into oblivion (later to be resurrected by Steve Jobs, but that's another tale). ZTC++ was so successful that Borland and Microsoft (according to rumor) abandoned their efforts at making a proprietary OOP C, and went with C++. ZTC++ was closed source, as were Borland's Turbo C++ and Microsoft C++. Do you think being a standardized language didn't help? C++ wasn't standardized until 1998, 10 years later. The 90's were pretty much the heyday of C++. Do you think the fact that there was a free implementation around that it supported virtually any existing platform didn't help? Do you think the fact was it was (almost) compatible with C (which was born freeish, since back then software was freely shared between universities) didn't help? ZTC++ was cheap as dirt, and at the time people didn't mind paying for compilers. Those days are over, though. People have different expectations today. No. A standard is something that was standardized by a standard committee which, ideally, have some credits to do so. C++ is standardized by ISO. I guess Walter and Andrei can give you more details, since I think they both were involved in the standardization of C++. I've attended a few ISO C++ meetings, but I never became a voting member, and have had pretty much zero influence over the direction C++ took after the 1980's. The bottom line was the open source movement was not a very significant force in the 1980's when C++ gained traction. Open source really exploded around 2000, along with the internet. I wonder if open source perhaps needed the internet in order to be viable.
Re: Programming in D book is about 88% translated
Am 29.06.2013 04:35, schrieb Ali Çehreli: On 06/28/2013 07:15 PM, MattCoder wrote: I'm really thinking about translate to portuguese That sounds great! :) Somebody else had started a translation last year to Brazilian Portuguese. I have just emailed the author to see how much they have advanced. I was about to email you know about any legal terms etc. Thinking that it is free enough, I had chosen this: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/ Just let me know if it is limiting in any way. Ali Maybe some help from proper Portuguese as well? :) -- Paulo
Bugfix release 0.9.16
Am 22.06.2013 13:04, schrieb Sönke Ludwig: Two additional notes: - There is a known bug that causes multiple DUB invocations to be required until all indirect dependencies are installed (watch out for a There are still some actions to perform: message). The current git master fixes that. The fix is now contained in the latest release.
Re: Announcing bottom-up-build - a build system for C/C++/D
On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 07:54:30 UTC, Graham St Jack wrote: On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 00:59:15 +0200, John Colvin wrote: On Thursday, 27 June 2013 at 00:10:37 UTC, Graham St Jack wrote: Having side-by-side comparisons of D against bash scripts and C++ modules had the effect of turning almost all the other team members into D advocates. Any chance we could know what team this is? (Sorry if this is common knowledge) It is the development team at my previous workplace. I haven't asked them for permission, so I would rather not say who they are. David Bryant (the previous poster) was a member of that team though, and he will be happy to provide details. I am still part of that team. We still use the early predecessor of bub to build several projects from a large C++ codebase, but I am looking forward to switching to bub at the end of the current project. For example, one project uses ~2000 cc/h files containing ~390,000 lines (before any code generation). After a successfull build, running the build again takes about 2s to figure out that everything is up to date. Knowing both build tools, I expect that time to remain about the same after the switch to bub. Yes, I have become a D advocate. Our production code is still mostly C++, but a large part of our system-level testing is now written in D (~15,000 lines). Bash scripts are becoming rarer too. :)
Re: Programming in D book is about 88% translated
On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 02:35:27 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote: That sounds great! :) Somebody else had started a translation last year to Brazilian Portuguese. I have just emailed the author to see how much they have advanced. Please let me know later how the translation is going, if I can continue his work somehow or I'll start my own translation from scratch. Thinking that it is free enough, I had chosen this: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/ Just let me know if it is limiting in any way. 2 times more awesome. :] Bye, Matheus.
Re: DConf 2013 Closing Keynote: Quo Vadis by Andrei Alexandrescu
On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 08:37:48 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: The bottom line was the open source movement was not a very significant force in the 1980's when C++ gained traction. Open source really exploded around 2000, along with the internet. I wonder if open source perhaps needed the internet in order to be viable. That's a very good point. It's before my time really, but if I understand the history right, the main way to get hold of copies of stuff like GCC in the early days was to pay for a set of disks with it on -- and there was no infrastructure for easily sharing changes. So neither the free-as-in-beer or free-as-in-freedom advantages were as readily apparent or effective as they are today.
Re: DConf 2013 Closing Keynote: Quo Vadis by Andrei Alexandrescu
Walter Bright, el 29 de June a las 01:37 me escribiste: The bottom line was the open source movement was not a very significant force in the 1980's when C++ gained traction. Open source really exploded around 2000, along with the internet. I wonder if open source perhaps needed the internet in order to be viable. Yes, I think that's the whole point, without Internet open source was extremely niche, without resources to distribute it, it was almost impossible to take off, and almost impossible to collaborate, which is the big different open source have vs traditional commercial software. Even when extremely interesting, I think the ZTC++ history before open source existed or was really viable (the free software movement started in 1983, the FSF was founded in 1985 and the open source definition was made in 1998) is irrelevant in terms to analyze if right now it would be valuable to make the reference compiler partly closed. -- Leandro Lucarella (AKA luca) http://llucax.com.ar/ -- GPG Key: 5F5A8D05 (F8CD F9A7 BF00 5431 4145 104C 949E BFB6 5F5A 8D05) -- EL PRIMER MONITO DEL MILENIO... -- Crónica TV
Re: Programming in D book is about 88% translated
On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 08:47:14 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote: Maybe some help from proper Portuguese as well? :) -- Paulo Ei gajo, did you mean weird portuguese? :P
Re: DConf 2013 Closing Keynote: Quo Vadis by Andrei Alexandrescu
On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 08:37:48 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: I agree with your post, I just want to make a couple of minor corrections. On 6/27/2013 4:58 AM, Leandro Lucarella wrote: Do you really think C++ took off because there are commercial implementations? I got into the C++ fray in the 1987-88 time frame. At the time, there was a great debate between C++ and Objective-C, and they were running neck-and-neck. I was casting about looking for a way to get a competitive edge with my C compiler, and investigated. Objective-C was put out by Stepstone. They wanted royalties from anyone who implemented a clone, and kept a tight fist over the licensing. C++ only existed in its ATT cfront implementation. I wrote a letter to ATT's lawyers, asking if I could create a C++ clone, and they phoned me up and were very nice. They said sure, and I wouldn't have to pay any license or royalties. So I went with C++. I don't really know if cfront was open source at the time or not, but I never looked at its source. I think cfront source came with a paid license for unix, but I'm not positive. Anyhow, I wound up implementing the first native C++ compiler for the PC. Directly afterward, C++ took off like a rocket. Was it because of Zortech C++? I think there's strong evidence it was. A lot of programmers turned up their noses at the peasants programming on DOS, but that's where the action was in the 1980's, and ZTC++ had no realistic competitors. You could also see the results in Usenet. Postings about C++ and O-C were neck-and-neck until ZTC++ came out, and then things tilted heavily in C++'s favor, and O-C disappeared into oblivion (later to be resurrected by Steve Jobs, but that's another tale). ZTC++ was so successful that Borland and Microsoft (according to rumor) abandoned their efforts at making a proprietary OOP C, and went with C++. ZTC++ was closed source, as were Borland's Turbo C++ and Microsoft C++. Do you think being a standardized language didn't help? C++ wasn't standardized until 1998, 10 years later. The 90's were pretty much the heyday of C++. Do you think the fact that there was a free implementation around that it supported virtually any existing platform didn't help? Do you think the fact was it was (almost) compatible with C (which was born freeish, since back then software was freely shared between universities) didn't help? ZTC++ was cheap as dirt, and at the time people didn't mind paying for compilers. Those days are over, though. People have different expectations today. No. A standard is something that was standardized by a standard committee which, ideally, have some credits to do so. C++ is standardized by ISO. I guess Walter and Andrei can give you more details, since I think they both were involved in the standardization of C++. I've attended a few ISO C++ meetings, but I never became a voting member, and have had pretty much zero influence over the direction C++ took after the 1980's. The bottom line was the open source movement was not a very significant force in the 1980's when C++ gained traction. Open source really exploded around 2000, along with the internet. I wonder if open source perhaps needed the internet in order to be viable. Wow. That's interesting reading. Thanks for the history lesson!
Re: DConf 2013 Closing Keynote: Quo Vadis by Andrei Alexandrescu
On 6/29/2013 5:08 AM, Joseph Rushton Wakeling wrote: On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 08:37:48 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: The bottom line was the open source movement was not a very significant force in the 1980's when C++ gained traction. Open source really exploded around 2000, along with the internet. I wonder if open source perhaps needed the internet in order to be viable. That's a very good point. It's before my time really, but if I understand the history right, the main way to get hold of copies of stuff like GCC in the early days was to pay for a set of disks with it on -- and there was no infrastructure for easily sharing changes. So neither the free-as-in-beer or free-as-in-freedom advantages were as readily apparent or effective as they are today. True, distribution was mainly by physical mail. There was some via BBS's and Usenet, but these were severely limited by bandwidth. I'd receive bug reports by fax, paper listings, and mailed floppies.
Re: DConf 2013 Closing Keynote: Quo Vadis by Andrei Alexandrescu
On 6/29/2013 7:56 PM, CJS wrote: Wow. That's interesting reading. Thanks for the history lesson! There are other versions of this history, none of which mention the role ZTC++ played in C++ attaining critical mass, so I like to repeat my version now and then :-)
Re: DMD under 64-bit Windows 7 HOWTO
Thanks! Adding those libs to the path worked. However, now I get the below error about a missing entry point. LINK : fatal error LNK1561: entry point must be defined --- errorlevel 1561 Exit code 1561 Build complete -- 1 error, 0 warnings
Re: DMD under 64-bit Windows 7 HOWTO
Never mind, I fixed that linker error (had a minor issue with the main D entry point). I'm now building x64!
Re: DLang Spec rewrite (?)
On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 02:11:00 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: I think it would be great. In particular, an ebook format would be good. You may want to wait until https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/271 is in. It systematizes macros a lot and it may offer answers to many of your questions. Andrei I would still like to work on compiling the DLangSpec into HTML5, but I've noticed that pull request 271 hasn't been touched in over 4 months. Further, I sent in a pull request to move the DLangSpec source files into their own folders and haven't gotten so much as a 'worst pull request ever' in response. I fully appreciate that people are very busy - including me - so I want to know if there's anything I can do to help things along. At least with respect to pull request 271, is there anything that I can do to help get it merged into master so I can get working on the HTML5 DDoc?
What about to add costume projects to D autotester?
As dmd is actively developed approximately every 2 weeks (since May) I have to find a cause for a regression which takes few hours and is a bit annoying as it looks like a needless job. What about to introduce some benefit criteria (regressions discovered by the project e.g.) relying on which a project is considered to be useful and can is added to autotester? This will help dmd developers to see bugs in their pulls immediately and will save D users time. -- Денис В. Шеломовский Denis V. Shelomovskij
Re: stack trace on linux amd64 ?
On 29 June 2013 06:42, deadalnix deadal...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday, 28 June 2013 at 20:00:52 UTC, Johannes Pfau wrote: Am Fri, 28 Jun 2013 11:12:25 -0700 schrieb Sean Kelly s...@invisibleduck.org: If I remember correctly, the issue there was that the runtime would need to open the executable or map file and parse it, and it seemed a lot more straightforward to simply make an API call. But if you're inclined to submit a pull request... In the meantime the GCC guys have developed libbacktrace [1] for GCC 4.8 which does exactly that: map the executable, parse it and use the dwarf debug info and all that without malloc. We're currently integrating this into GDC [2]. Unfortunately it's not as easy to integrate into dmd: It uses libgcc, the libbacktrace library is not installed in the target system (it's only available at gcc build time, we then just link it statically into druntime) and you need a more advanced build system to check for BACKTRACE_SUPPORTED in C headers. [1] https://github.com/mirrors/gcc/tree/master/libbacktrace [2] https://github.com/D-Programming-GDC/GDC/pull/65 https://github.com/bombela/backward-cpp That may be relevant. If DMD wants to go down the route of pulling in third party dependencies. :o) -- Iain Buclaw *(p e ? p++ : p) = (c 0x0f) + '0';
Re: Problem with Variant
On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 00:14:19 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Could you please paste your note into a bug report? In a perfect world you may want to also submit a pull request! Filled a bug http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=10500 And I'll try to make world a better place too...
Re: DLang Spec rewrite (?)
Borden 2...@bordenrhodes.com wrote in message news:qglzffgfawrzjguvt...@forum.dlang.org... I would still like to work on compiling the DLangSpec into HTML5, but I've noticed that pull request 271 hasn't been touched in over 4 months. Further, I sent in a pull request to move the DLangSpec source files into their own folders and haven't gotten so much as a 'worst pull request ever' in response. I fully appreciate that people are very busy - including me - so I want to know if there's anything I can do to help things along. At least with respect to pull request 271, is there anything that I can do to help get it merged into master so I can get working on the HTML5 DDoc? To be honest, you just have to keep bugging people. I mostly review compiler pulls, and I am much much more likely to review something that shows up in my inbox than something that sits patiently in the list. If you make enough noise somebody will eventually reply.
DIP43 - D/Objective-C
I have created a DIP for making D ABI compatible with Objective-C. This idea has already been announced, what I've done now is created a proper DIP. The DIP is basically Michel Fortin's original designed document properly formatted and put next to the other DIP's. DIP link: http://wiki.dlang.org/DIP43 Original announcement: http://forum.dlang.org/thread/kq7li9$2j9v$1...@digitalmars.com -- /Jacob Carlborg
Compiler could elide many more postblit constructor calls
Disclaimer: The discovery I'm about to describe here seems so
obvious that I'm inclined to think that I've made some mistake.
The sole purpose of postblit constructors is to provide value
semantics to structs which have mutable indirection (variables
which have only immutable indirection have value semantics
implicitly). Variables that are const/immutable can't have
mutable indirection. Therefore, when making a copy from a
const/immutable variable to a const/immutable variable, there's
no need to call the postblit constructor.
Example:
struct S
{
int[] values;
this(this)
{
values = values.dup;
}
}
void foo(const S) { }
void main()
{
const S s;
foo(s); // No need to call postblit
}
Re: SIMD on Windows
Alright, I'm now officially building for Windows x64 (amd64). I've created this early benchmark http://dpaste.dzfl.pl/eae0233e to explore SIMD performance. As you can see below, on my machine there is almost zero difference. Am I missing something? //===SIMD=== 0 1.#INF 5 1.#INF -- vector result hnsecs: 16 -- duration time 0 1.#INF 5 1.#INF hnsecs: 90005 0 1.#INF 5 1.#INF hnsecs: 90006 //===SCALAR=== 0 1.#INF 5 1.#INF hnsecs: 90005 0 1.#INF 5 1.#INF hnsecs: 15 0 1.#INF 5 1.#INF hnsecs: 16
Re: DIP42 - Add enum E(T) = expression; eponymous template support
26.06.2013 20:35, Andrej Mitrovic пишет: On 6/26/13, Denis Shelomovskij verylonglogin@gmail.com wrote: which will look better this way: --- static if (...) enum template = ...; else static if (...) enum template = ...; else ... --- Yeah I agree, this is more important than DIP42's shortened syntax for simple templates. It's the more complicated templates that are the problem. It's rather strange that enhancement 7364 isn't implemented yet (and even not discussed) as it's an easy-to-implement change with big pros and no cons. -- Денис В. Шеломовский Denis V. Shelomovskij
Add static code analyzing to dmd
IMHO it's an important enhancement as I see no reasons for the compiler to not inform about may-be-an-error situations if the user asks as it will save a lot people time. Original issue: http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=9811 Description: There are things which may or may not indicate and error. Current compiler behavior is: I'm a compiler, I can't even give a warning if there is a chance for false positive, there are only warnings and errors. But it looks inconsistent with the fact a compiler tries to help the developer by doing code coverage, documentation etc. Static code analyzing is an essential task a compiler could also do and do good. Also, IMHO, compilers should do static analyzing instead of external tools. So I propose to add -diagnostic flag to the compiler for things Walter is a bit uncomfortable in declaring it as always wrong and also for things that are definitely not always wrong. There also could be different levels of such analyzing and ability to treat diagnostic warnings as errors. See also: [1] Interview of Walter Bright by Andrey Karpov http://www.viva64.com/en/b/0182/ [2] NG thread about the interview http://forum.dlang.org/thread/nnzzbsafuwwzuotvl...@forum.dlang.org -- Денис В. Шеломовский Denis V. Shelomovskij
Re: DIP43 - D/Objective-C
On 2013-06-29 12:58:45 +, Jacob Carlborg d...@me.com said: I have created a DIP for making D ABI compatible with Objective-C. This idea has already been announced, what I've done now is created a proper DIP. The DIP is basically Michel Fortin's original designed document properly formatted and put next to the other DIP's. DIP link: http://wiki.dlang.org/DIP43 Original announcement: http://forum.dlang.org/thread/kq7li9$2j9v$1...@digitalmars.com There's no mention of the type of the class returned by NSObject.class. That type is NSObject.Class. Each Objective-C class has its own Class inner metaclass. Static methods are implemented behind the scene as members of this metaclass. This is already implemented. As for interfaces, they should have a meta-interface too implemented by the metaclasses of those classes implementing the interface. I don't think this has been done yet. -- Michel Fortin michel.for...@michelf.ca http://michelf.ca/
Re: DIP43 - D/Objective-C
On 6/29/13 5:58 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote: I have created a DIP for making D ABI compatible with Objective-C. This idea has already been announced, what I've done now is created a proper DIP. The DIP is basically Michel Fortin's original designed document properly formatted and put next to the other DIP's. DIP link: http://wiki.dlang.org/DIP43 Original announcement: http://forum.dlang.org/thread/kq7li9$2j9v$1...@digitalmars.com It's probably an obvious observation, but why not use an annotation like: @selector(insertItemWithObjectValue:atIndex:) void insertItem(ObjcObject object, NSInteger value); instead of the DIP's proposal of: void insertItem(ObjcObject object, NSInteger value) [insertItemWithObjectValue:atIndex:];
Regarding warnings
I suggest to remove the -w switch from the list of dmd/ldc2 switches, and later to remove that functionality too. It's better to keep only the informational warnings. I keep seeing people in D.learn that miss warnings because they don't active them, so I suggest to activate informational warnings on default. And then I suggest to add a switch to disable the warnings, for the rare situations where you don't want them. Bye, bearophile
Re: SIMD on Windows
On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 14:39:44 UTC, Jonathan Dunlap wrote: Alright, I'm now officially building for Windows x64 (amd64). I've created this early benchmark http://dpaste.dzfl.pl/eae0233e to explore SIMD performance. As you can see below, on my machine there is almost zero difference. Am I missing something? //===SIMD=== 0 1.#INF 5 1.#INF -- vector result hnsecs: 16 -- duration time 0 1.#INF 5 1.#INF hnsecs: 90005 0 1.#INF 5 1.#INF hnsecs: 90006 //===SCALAR=== 0 1.#INF 5 1.#INF hnsecs: 90005 0 1.#INF 5 1.#INF hnsecs: 15 0 1.#INF 5 1.#INF hnsecs: 16 First of all, calcSIMD and calcScalar are virtual functions so they can't be inlined, which prevents any further optimization. It also seems that the fact that g, s, i and d are class fields and that g is a static array makes DMD load them from memory and store them back on every iteration even when calcSIMD and calcScalar are inlined. But even if I make the class final and build it with gdc -O3 -finline-functions -frelease -march=native (in which case GDC generates assembly that looks optimal to me), the scalar version is still a bit faster than the vector version. The main reason for that is that even with scalar code, the compiler can do multiple operations in parallel. So on Sandy Bridge CPUs, for example, floating point multiplication takes 5 cycles to complete, but the processor can do one multiplication per cycle. So my guess is that the first four multiplications and the second four multiplications in calcScalar are done in parallel. That would explain the scalar code being equaly fast, but not faster than vector code. The reason it's faster is that gdc replaces multiplication by 2 with addition and omits multiplication by 1.
Re: DIP43 - D/Objective-C
On 2013-06-29 15:51:11 +, David Gileadi gilea...@nspmgmail.com said: It's probably an obvious observation, but why not use an annotation like: @selector(insertItemWithObjectValue:atIndex:) void insertItem(ObjcObject object, NSInteger value); instead of the DIP's proposal of: void insertItem(ObjcObject object, NSInteger value) [insertItemWithObjectValue:atIndex:]; This document and its experimental implementation predate UDAs. While I do like this syntax, I agree it'd make more sense to use an attribute now. -- Michel Fortin michel.for...@michelf.ca http://michelf.ca/
Re: SIMD on Windows
See Manu's talk and google how to use it. If you don't know what you're doing you are unlikely to see performance improvements. I'm not even sure if you're benchmarking SIMD performance or function call overhead there.
SCons D tooling patch
Hi Russel,
After the latest hg pull from your SCons D tooling, bootstrap.py was
broken, and aborts with an error upon startup. Since I've been using
bootstrap.py to do all my D builds, this was a rather major
inconvenience.
But today, I managed to figure out the problem, so I've attached the
diff that fixed it for me.
Hope this helps.
T
--
Give a man a fish, and he eats once.
Teach a man to fish, and he will sit forever.
diff -r f57afb0b72f5 bootstrap.py
--- a/bootstrap.py Wed May 15 12:50:05 2013 +0100
+++ b/bootstrap.py Sat Jun 29 10:13:45 2013 -0700
@@ -197,7 +197,7 @@
scons_py = os.path.join('src', 'script', 'scons.py')
-src_engine = os.path.join('src', 'engine')
+src_engine = os.path.join(script_dir, 'src', 'engine')
MANIFEST_in = find(os.path.join(src_engine, 'MANIFEST.in'))
files = [ scons_py ] + [os.path.join(src_engine, x)
Octal enums don't work anymore in git HEAD
http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=10503 :-( T -- If Java had true garbage collection, most programs would delete themselves upon execution. -- Robert Sewell
Re: Compiler could elide many more postblit constructor calls
On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 13:47:36 UTC, TommiT wrote:
[..]
Example:
struct S
{
int[] values;
this(this)
{
values = values.dup;
}
}
void foo(const S) { }
void main()
{
const S s;
foo(s); // No need to call postblit
}
One important related detail:
If the compiler decides to elide the postblit of S on the call to
foo(s), then the destructor of S (if S happened to have one)
should not be called when the call to foo exits and the argument
passed to foo goes out of scope. The logic behind this is that
when we omit the postblit on the argument that's passed by value,
it is as-if we had passed the argument by const reference (except
that the argument is considered local to foo, i.e. not returnable
by reference and what not).
Re: SIMD on Windows
I've updated the project with your suggestions at http://dpaste.dzfl.pl/fce2d93b but still get the same performance. Vectors defined in the benchmark function body, no function calling overhead, etc. See some of my comments below btw: First of all, calcSIMD and calcScalar are virtual functions so they can't be inlined, which prevents any further optimization. For the dlang docs: Member functions which are private or package are never virtual, and hence cannot be overridden. So my guess is that the first four multiplications and the second four multiplications in calcScalar are done in parallel. ... The reason it's faster is that gdc replaces multiplication by 2 with addition and omits multiplication by 1. I've changed the multiplies of 2 and 1 to 2.1 and 1.01 respectively. Still no performance difference between the two for me.
Re: SIMD on Windows
On 29 June 2013 18:57, Jonathan Dunlap jad...@gmail.com wrote: I've updated the project with your suggestions at http://dpaste.dzfl.pl/fce2d93b but still get the same performance. Vectors defined in the benchmark function body, no function calling overhead, etc. See some of my comments below btw: First of all, calcSIMD and calcScalar are virtual functions so they can't be inlined, which prevents any further optimization. For the dlang docs: Member functions which are private or package are never virtual, and hence cannot be overridden. So my guess is that the first four multiplications and the second four multiplications in calcScalar are done in parallel. ... The reason it's faster is that gdc replaces multiplication by 2 with addition and omits multiplication by 1. I've changed the multiplies of 2 and 1 to 2.1 and 1.01 respectively. Still no performance difference between the two for me. s/class/struct/ -- Iain Buclaw *(p e ? p++ : p) = (c 0x0f) + '0';
Re: SIMD on Windows
On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 17:57:20 UTC, Jonathan Dunlap wrote:
I've updated the project with your suggestions at
http://dpaste.dzfl.pl/fce2d93b but still get the same
performance. Vectors defined in the benchmark function body, no
function calling overhead, etc. See some of my comments below
btw:
First of all, calcSIMD and calcScalar are virtual functions so
they can't be inlined, which prevents any further optimization.
For the dlang docs: Member functions which are private or
package are never virtual, and hence cannot be overridden.
So my guess is that the first four multiplications and the
second four multiplications in calcScalar are done in
parallel. ... The reason it's faster is that gdc replaces
multiplication by 2 with addition and omits multiplication by
1.
I've changed the multiplies of 2 and 1 to 2.1 and 1.01
respectively. Still no performance difference between the two
for me.
The multiples 2 and 1 were the reason why the scalar code
performs a little bit better than SIMD code when compiled with
GDC. The main reason why scalar code isn't much slower than SIMD
code is instruction level parallelism. Because the first four
operation in calcScalar are independent (none of them depends on
the result of any of the other three) modern x86-64 processors
can execute them in parallel. Because of that, the speed of your
program is limited by instruction latency and not throughput.
That's why it doesn't really make a difference that the scalar
version does four times as many operations.
You can also make advantage of instruction level parallelism when
using SIMD. For example, I get about the same number of
iterations per second for the following two functions (when using
GDC):
import gcc.attribute;
@attribute(forceinline) void calcSIMD1() {
s0 = s0 * i0;
s0 = s0 * d0;
s1 = s1 * i1;
s1 = s1 * d1;
s2 = s2 * i2;
s2 = s2 * d2;
s3 = s3 * i3;
s3 = s3 * d3;
}
@attribute(forceinline) void calcSIMD2() {
s0 = s0 * i0;
s0 = s0 * d0;
}
By the way, if performance is very important to you, you should
try GDC (or LDC, but I don't think LDC is currently fully usable
on Windows).
Re: SIMD on Windows
For the dlang docs: Member functions which are private or package are never virtual, and hence cannot be overridden. The call to calcScalar compiles to this: movrax,QWORD PTR [r12] rex.W call QWORD PTR [rax+0x40] so I think the implementation doesn't conform to the spec in this case.
Re: SIMD on Windows
modern x86-64 processors can execute them in parallel. Because of that, the speed of your program is limited by instruction latency and not throughput. It seems like auto-vectorization to SIMD code may be an ideal strategy (e.g. Java) since it seems that the conditions to get any performance improvement have to be very particular and situational... which is something the compiler may be best suited to handle. Thoughts?
Re: DIP42 - Add enum E(T) = expression; eponymous template support
I've been wondering if we could have parameterized named enumS.
The syntax for it would look somewhat similar:
enum Fruit(T) : T { apple, banana = -42 }
void main()
{
auto shortFruit = Fruit!(short).apple;
auto longFruit = Fruit!(long).banana;
longFruit = shortFruit; // OK: implicit conversion allowed
shortFruit = longFruit; // OK: ... even a truncating one
Fruit!uint uintFruit; // Error: -42 is out of range of uint
Fruit!string stringFruit; // Error: enums need initializers
}
Re: Regarding warnings
On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 16:07:57 UTC, bearophile wrote: I suggest to remove the -w switch from the list of dmd/ldc2 switches, and later to remove that functionality too. It's better to keep only the informational warnings. I keep seeing people in D.learn that miss warnings because they don't active them, so I suggest to activate informational warnings on default. And then I suggest to add a switch to disable the warnings, for the rare situations where you don't want them. Bye, bearophile This might increase knowledge like you say. Plus, you'd have warnings about stuff like implicit switch case fall-through as the default. I think this idea sounds okay.
Re: Automatic typing
On 6/27/13 9:34 PM, JS wrote:
Would it be possible for a language(specifically d) to have the ability
to automatically type a variable by looking at its use cases without
adding too much complexity? It seems to me that most compilers already
can infer type mismatchs which would allow them to handle stuff like:
main()
{
auto x;
auto y;
x = 3; // x is an int, same as auto x = 3;
y = f(); // y is the same type as what f() returns
x = 3.9; // x is really a float, no mismatch with previous type(int)
}
in this case x and y's type is inferred from future use. The compiler
essentially just lazily infers the variable type. Obviously ambiguity
will generate an error.
What you are asking is essentially what Crystal does for all variables
(and types):
https://github.com/manastech/crystal/wiki/Introduction#type-inference
Your example would be written like this:
x = 3
y = f()
x = 3.9
But since Crystal transforms your code to SSA
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_single_assignment_form) you
actually have *two* x variables in your code. The first one is of type
Int32, the second of type Float64. The above solves the problem
mentioned by Steven Schveighoffer, where you didn't know what overloaded
version you was calling:
x = 3
f(x) # always calls f(Int32), because at run-time
# x will always be an Int32 at this point
x = 3.9
But to have this in a language you need some things:
1. Don't have a different syntax for declaring and updating variables
2. Transform your code to SSA
(maybe more?)
So this is not possible in D right now, and I don't think it will ever
be because it requires a huge change to the whole language.
Re: Regarding warnings
w0rp: This might increase knowledge like you say. Plus, you'd have warnings about stuff like implicit switch case fall-through as the default. I think this idea sounds okay. I think a strong, silent type of D compiler is not the best. Maybe Walter can offer an opinion, even negative :-) Bye, bearophile
Re: DLang Spec rewrite (?)
On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 11:33:16 UTC, Daniel Murphy wrote: To be honest, you just have to keep bugging people. I mostly review compiler pulls, and I am much much more likely to review something that shows up in my inbox than something that sits patiently in the list. If you make enough noise somebody will eventually reply. Sigh, I know. I just don't want to get on anybody's bad side. Maybe I can do that just by keeping this bumped...
Re: auto type for defaulted arguments? [Repost]
In the meantime I have opened an enhancement request: http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=10491 Henning Pohl has written a patch: https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dmd/pull/2270 And Kenji has written some comments in Bugzilla, explaining why he doesn't like this ER. I usually trust Kenji judgement. So let's close down this idea? Bye, bearophile
Re: SIMD on Windows
It seems like auto-vectorization to SIMD code may be an ideal strategy (e.g. Java) since it seems that the conditions to get any performance improvement have to be very particular and situational... which is something the compiler may be best suited to handle. Thoughts? The things is that using SIMD efficiently often requires you to organize your data and your algorithm differently, which is something that the compiler can't do for you. Another problem is that the compiler doesn't know how often different code paths will be executed so it can't know how to use SIMD in the best way (that could be solved with profile guided optimization, though). Alignment restrictions are another thing that can cause problems. For those reasons auto-vectorization only works in the simplest of cases. But if you want auto-vectorization, GDC and LDC already do it. I recommend watching Manu's talk (as Kiith-Sa has already suggested): http://youtube.com/watch?v=q_39RnxtkgM
Re: Regarding warnings
On Saturday, June 29, 2013 18:07:55 bearophile wrote: I suggest to remove the -w switch from the list of dmd/ldc2 switches, and later to remove that functionality too. It's better to keep only the informational warnings. I keep seeing people in D.learn that miss warnings because they don't active them, so I suggest to activate informational warnings on default. And then I suggest to add a switch to disable the warnings, for the rare situations where you don't want them. http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=10147 - Jonathan M Davis
Re: SIMD on Windows
I did watch Manu's a few days ago which inspired me to start this project. With the updates in http://dpaste.dzfl.pl/fce2d93b, I'm still a bit clueless as to why there is almost zero performance difference... considering that is seems like an ideal setup to benefit from SIMD. I feel that if I can't see gains here: that I shouldn't bother using them in practice, where sometimes non-ideal operations must be done.
Re: Regarding warnings
On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 16:07:57 UTC, bearophile wrote: I suggest to remove the -w switch from the list of dmd/ldc2 switches, and later to remove that functionality too. It's better to keep only the informational warnings. I keep seeing people in D.learn that miss warnings because they don't active them, so I suggest to activate informational warnings on default. And then I suggest to add a switch to disable the warnings, for the rare situations where you don't want them. Bye, bearophile I've been using D heavily for well over a year now and I've never used -w (facepalm) That's good anecdotal evidence that it should be opt-out not opt-in. Brb... Recompiling all my code with -w to find out my stupid mistakes :p
Re: Automatic typing
On 6/29/2013 12:18 PM, Ary Borenszweig wrote: What you are asking is essentially what Crystal does for all variables (and types): https://github.com/manastech/crystal/wiki/Introduction#type-inference Your example would be written like this: x = 3 y = f() x = 3.9 But since Crystal transforms your code to SSA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_single_assignment_form) you actually have *two* x variables in your code. The first one is of type Int32, the second of type Float64. Sorry, but that seems like a solution in search of a problem. And besides, yuk. Imagine the bugs caused by hey, it doesn't implicitly convert, so instead of letting the user know he goofed, let's just silently create a new variable!
Re: SIMD on Windows
versioning on Win32/Win64 no longer works. Why? or What exactly? Details please)
Re: Automatic typing
On 6/29/13 6:01 PM, Walter Bright wrote: On 6/29/2013 12:18 PM, Ary Borenszweig wrote: What you are asking is essentially what Crystal does for all variables (and types): https://github.com/manastech/crystal/wiki/Introduction#type-inference Your example would be written like this: x = 3 y = f() x = 3.9 But since Crystal transforms your code to SSA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_single_assignment_form) you actually have *two* x variables in your code. The first one is of type Int32, the second of type Float64. Sorry, but that seems like a solution in search of a problem. And besides, yuk. Imagine the bugs caused by hey, it doesn't implicitly convert, so instead of letting the user know he goofed, let's just silently create a new variable! Sorry, but I can't imagine those bugs. Can you show me an example?
Re: Regarding warnings
John Colvin: I've been using D heavily for well over a year now and I've never used -w (facepalm) That's good anecdotal evidence that it should be opt-out not opt-in. Brb... Recompiling all my code with -w to find out my stupid mistakes :p If you seem my first point, I am suggesting to remove -w from the switches and to use -wi (actually I am suggesting -wi to become the default compilation mode). Bye, bearophile
Re: Automatic typing
On 6/29/2013 2:53 PM, Ary Borenszweig wrote: On 6/29/13 6:01 PM, Walter Bright wrote: On 6/29/2013 12:18 PM, Ary Borenszweig wrote: What you are asking is essentially what Crystal does for all variables (and types): https://github.com/manastech/crystal/wiki/Introduction#type-inference Your example would be written like this: x = 3 y = f() x = 3.9 But since Crystal transforms your code to SSA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_single_assignment_form) you actually have *two* x variables in your code. The first one is of type Int32, the second of type Float64. Sorry, but that seems like a solution in search of a problem. And besides, yuk. Imagine the bugs caused by hey, it doesn't implicitly convert, so instead of letting the user know he goofed, let's just silently create a new variable! Sorry, but I can't imagine those bugs. Can you show me an example? Sure: x = 3 px = x y = f() x = 3.9 // uh-oh, *px points to a different x, and wasn't updated! printf(%d\n, x); // uh-oh, I thought x was an int!
Re: Automatic typing
On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 17:01:54 -0400, Walter Bright
newshou...@digitalmars.com wrote:
On 6/29/2013 12:18 PM, Ary Borenszweig wrote:
What you are asking is essentially what Crystal does for all variables
(and types):
https://github.com/manastech/crystal/wiki/Introduction#type-inference
Your example would be written like this:
x = 3
y = f()
x = 3.9
But since Crystal transforms your code to SSA
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_single_assignment_form) you
actually have
*two* x variables in your code. The first one is of type Int32, the
second of
type Float64.
Sorry, but that seems like a solution in search of a problem.
And besides, yuk. Imagine the bugs caused by hey, it doesn't implicitly
convert, so instead of letting the user know he goofed, let's just
silently create a new variable!
x is a variant that is compile-time optimized to be an int or a float.
Where would the bug be? If x could possibly change types depending on
runtime data, then x is given a type of a union between int or float.
It would be somewhat like the compiler optimizing this:
{
Variant v = 1;
v = 3.5;
}
to:
{
int v = 1;
}
{
float v = 3.5;
}
because it sees that during the optimized scopes, v is only used as that
specific type.
It seems like the compiler is generating variants that can hold exactly
the types that are used for that variable. Interesting concept.
-Steve
Re: Regarding warnings
On 6/30/13, bearophile bearophileh...@lycos.com wrote: If you seem my first point, I am suggesting to remove -w from the switches and to use -wi (actually I am suggesting -wi to become the default compilation mode). Regardless of any FR's I still want to ability for compilation to halt on a warning, even if it means a new switch. As for the whole -w/-wi thing, why can't people just read the list of switches?
Re: Automatic typing
On 6/29/13 7:30 PM, Walter Bright wrote: On 6/29/2013 2:53 PM, Ary Borenszweig wrote: On 6/29/13 6:01 PM, Walter Bright wrote: On 6/29/2013 12:18 PM, Ary Borenszweig wrote: What you are asking is essentially what Crystal does for all variables (and types): https://github.com/manastech/crystal/wiki/Introduction#type-inference Your example would be written like this: x = 3 y = f() x = 3.9 But since Crystal transforms your code to SSA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_single_assignment_form) you actually have *two* x variables in your code. The first one is of type Int32, the second of type Float64. Sorry, but that seems like a solution in search of a problem. And besides, yuk. Imagine the bugs caused by hey, it doesn't implicitly convert, so instead of letting the user know he goofed, let's just silently create a new variable! Sorry, but I can't imagine those bugs. Can you show me an example? Sure: x = 3 px = x y = f() x = 3.9 // uh-oh, *px points to a different x, and wasn't updated! printf(%d\n, x); // uh-oh, I thought x was an int! If the last statements were: x = 4 printf(%d\n, *px); I can see where the problem is (you would expect that to print 4, right?). That can be easily fixed by not transforming the last x to SSA if its address is taken. That's a really good example you gave :-)
Re: Regarding warnings
Andrej Mitrovic: I still want to ability for compilation to halt on a warning, It's a fair desire, but for it probably the problems in Issue 10321 need to be faced first. As for the whole -w/-wi thing, why can't people just read the list of switches? I have seen tens of times that this doesn't happen, in D.learn, in #D on IRC and with friends, students, etc. Silent compilers that keep the muzzle shut on default are not good enough. John Colvin's answer is not so unusual. Bye, bearophile
Re: Regarding warnings
Jonathan M Davis: http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=10147 I have aggregated a request of mine to your issue 10147. Are you OK with this? (What I am asking in addition to your request is for informational warnings to be active on default and to be disabled on request.) Bye, bearophile
Re: Automatic typing
On 6/29/2013 4:08 PM, Ary Borenszweig wrote: That's a really good example you gave :-) Thanks. I remember seeing it somewhere before, but can't recall just where.
Re: Regarding warnings
On 6/30/13, bearophile bearophileh...@lycos.com wrote: Andrej Mitrovic: I still want to ability for compilation to halt on a warning, It's a fair desire, but for it probably the problems in Issue 10321 need to be faced first. I've added a reply to the bugzilla issue, I think I might not even need this behavior anymore, so I withdraw the request.
DMD ICE (issue 10401)
I've managed to locate the commit that introduced bug 10401, using git bisect: http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=10401 But I don't have the DMD know-how to figure out what exactly is going on. Any takers? :) T -- Not all rumours are as misleading as this one.
Re: SIMD on Windows
You should probably watch my talk again ;) Most of the points I make towards the end when I make the claim almost everyone who tries to use SIMD will see the same or slower performance, and the reason is they have simply revealed other bottlenecks. And I also made the point only by strictly applying ALL of the points I demonstrated, will you see significant performance improvement. The problem with your code is that it doesn't do any real work. Your operations are all dependent on the result of the previous operation. The scalar operations have a shorter latency than the SIMD operations, and they all execute in parallel. This is exactly the pathological worst-case comparison that basically everyone new to SIMD tries to write and wonders why it's slow. I guess I should have demonstrated this point more clearly in my talk. It was very rushed (actually, the script was basically on the spot), sorry about that! There's not enough code in those loops. You're basically profiling loop iteration performance and the latency of a float opcode vs a simd opcode... not any significant work. You should see a big difference if you unroll the loop 4-8 times (or more for such a short loop, depending on the CPU). I also made the point that you should always avoid doing SIMD profiling on an x86, and certainly not an x64, since it is both, the most forgiving (results in the least wins of any arch), and also the hardest to predict; the performance difference you see will almost certainly not be the same on someone else's chip.. Look again to my points about latency, reducing the overall pipeline length (demonstrated with the addition sequence), and unrolling the loops. On 30 June 2013 06:34, Jonathan Dunlap jad...@gmail.com wrote: I did watch Manu's a few days ago which inspired me to start this project. With the updates in http://dpaste.dzfl.pl/fce2d93b**, I'm still a bit clueless as to why there is almost zero performance difference... considering that is seems like an ideal setup to benefit from SIMD. I feel that if I can't see gains here: that I shouldn't bother using them in practice, where sometimes non-ideal operations must be done.
Re: Compiler could elide many more postblit constructor calls
On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 17:57:33 UTC, TommiT wrote:
On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 13:47:36 UTC, TommiT wrote:
[..]
Example:
struct S
{
int[] values;
this(this)
{
values = values.dup;
}
}
void foo(const S) { }
void main()
{
const S s;
foo(s); // No need to call postblit
}
One important related detail:
If the compiler decides to elide the postblit of S on the call
to foo(s), then the destructor of S (if S happened to have one)
should not be called when the call to foo exits and the
argument passed to foo goes out of scope. The logic behind this
is that when we omit the postblit on the argument that's passed
by value, it is as-if we had passed the argument by const
reference (except that the argument is considered local to foo,
i.e. not returnable by reference and what not).
Unless the function is pure, this is only possible for immutable
parameters otherwise the original variable may be modified while
inside the function even if it is passed by const.
Interacting between two different programs
I've been toying around with the idea of working on an IDE, mostly because I think it would be an interesting/fun project to work on. In any case, the only thing I cannot seem to wrap my head around is how programs like Code Blocks and Visual Studio, and various other IDE's interact with debuggers as if it isn't some external thing. How does someone have one program interact with another like this? Can you have one send its output to the other's input? Do they somehow share the same IO's? I've never had to write code that does anything like this so I'm you great minds out there can shed some light. Thanks in advance!
Re: Get body of a function as string
Oh, hey! I remember participating in writing some of that :) Only Involved? You've written it. I've added only a few things. :)
Re: Interacting between two different programs
On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 06:08:28 UTC, Jeremy DeHaan wrote: I've been toying around with the idea of working on an IDE, mostly because I think it would be an interesting/fun project to work on. In any case, the only thing I cannot seem to wrap my head around is how programs like Code Blocks and Visual Studio, and various other IDE's interact with debuggers as if it isn't some external thing. How does someone have one program interact with another like this? Can you have one send its output to the other's input? Do they somehow share the same IO's? I've never had to write code that does anything like this so I'm you great minds out there can shed some light. Thanks in advance! You can use std.phobos.pipeProcess to interact with an external process that you spawn. This works by connecting the standard streams between the child and parent processes, so that they can send and receive data. GDB provides an interface that can be used with this kind of intercommunication. It is called GDB MI. You can read about it here http://ftp.gnu.org/old-gnu/Manuals/gdb-5.1.1/html_node/gdb_211.html#SEC216
Re: Interacting between two different programs
On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 06:08:28 UTC, Jeremy DeHaan wrote: I've been toying around with the idea of working on an IDE, mostly because I think it would be an interesting/fun project to work on. In any case, the only thing I cannot seem to wrap my head around is how programs like Code Blocks and Visual Studio, and various other IDE's interact with debuggers as if it isn't some external thing. How does someone have one program interact with another like this? Can you have one send its output to the other's input? Do they somehow share the same IO's? I've never had to write code that does anything like this so I'm you great minds out there can shed some light. Thanks in advance! At a more fundamental level, you might want to read about fork(), pipe(), execlp() UNIX-style system calls. Here's a nice document: http://www.makelinux.net/alp/038. Given, this is Unix-specific and Windows will be much different. However, you'll find this low-level understanding useful when using the higher-level APIs.
Re: Opaque structs
Am Fri, 28 Jun 2013 22:16:33 +0200
schrieb Andrej Mitrovic andrej.mitrov...@gmail.com:
On 6/28/13, Johannes Pfau nos...@example.com wrote:
A naive question: Why isn't struct S {} enough? This should be a
struct with size 0 so why do we need to disable the constructor and
postblit explicitly?
Because the user should never be able to use such a struct by value,
in other words a user might mistakenly write code such as:
S s2 = *s; // copies 1 byte
But why is that legal / does that copy _one_ byte? It seems like that's
totally arbitrary. Shouldn't doing anything value-related on
an empty struct be invalid anyway?
Re: Opaque structs
On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 08:01:17 UTC, Johannes Pfau wrote:
Am Fri, 28 Jun 2013 22:16:33 +0200
schrieb Andrej Mitrovic andrej.mitrov...@gmail.com:
On 6/28/13, Johannes Pfau nos...@example.com wrote:
A naive question: Why isn't struct S {} enough? This should
be a
struct with size 0 so why do we need to disable the
constructor and
postblit explicitly?
Because the user should never be able to use such a struct by
value,
in other words a user might mistakenly write code such as:
S s2 = *s; // copies 1 byte
But why is that legal / does that copy _one_ byte? It seems
like that's
totally arbitrary. Shouldn't doing anything value-related on
an empty struct be invalid anyway?
It copies one byte because empty structs have one byte -
according to D implementation. The value can be adjusted using
align() atrribute.
Re: zip vs. lockstep -- problems accessing elements by ref
On 06/28/2013 03:19 PM, Joseph Rushton Wakeling wrote:
Consider the following equivalent code using zip and lockstep respectively to
iterate over the entries in an array and set their values:
auto arr1 = new double[10];
foreach(i, ref x; zip(iota(10), arr1))
{
x = i;
}
writeln(arr1);
auto arr2 = new double[10];
foreach(i, ref x; lockstep(iota(10), arr2))
{
x = i;
}
writeln(arr2);
The first array will still be full of nan's when it is output, while the
second
will have values set correctly. Can anyone offer a reasonable explanation why
this should be so? It looks like a bug to me, or at best an unreasonable
difference in functionality. :-(
... ping ...?
The particular motivation here is bearophile's proposal to deprecate lockstep in
favour of zip:
http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=8155
That's clearly not a viable course until one can 's/lockstep/zip/' and have the
altered code Just Work.
I should add that bearophile has been fantastic in suggesting alternative design
patterns that don't require either lockstep _or_ zip, but I still think this
lockstep/zip discrepancy needs resolving.
Re: Get body of a function as string
On 2013-06-28 14:46, John Colvin wrote: Is there any way of getting the body of a function as a string? (Obviously only when the source code is available to the compiler) I remember someone someone modified DMD and added a .codeof property or similar. It was fairly easy. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Re: Get body of a function as string
Jacob Carlborg: I remember someone someone modified DMD and added a .codeof property or similar. It was fairly easy. If there are enough use cases for it, then perhaps it's worth putting both the enhancement request for .codeof and its relative patch in Bugzilla. Bye, bearophile
SO Answer - Review
Could someone read over http://stackoverflow.com/a/17379444/969534 and tell me if I missed something and point out any grammatical mistakes and fix them (if you have enough reputation to edit posts) or point them out to me? Thanks
test[0u] of type bool[1u] does not have a boolean value
Is this a bug or is it just me? It seems that the compiler
dereference wrong.
import std.stdio;
void foo(bool[1]* test) {
if (test[0])
test[0] = false;
}
void main()
{
bool[1] test = false;
foo(test);
}
prints: Error: expression test[0u] of type bool[1u] does not have
a boolean value
This work:
if ((*test)[0])
test[0] = false;
Re: sort error
On Friday, 28 June 2013 at 17:07:22 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote:
On 06/28/2013 07:00 AM, snow wrote: Hello there,
Ive got the following code
http://dpaste.dzfl.pl/e391a268
This code throws me a Range Exception in Algorithm.d.
If I use a lower number of random vectors, like 100, the code
terminates. Also, if I delete the template instruction like
this :
sort(individuals);
I also don't get an exception.
Yes, what is thrown is an Error. (Error and Exception are
different hierarchies under Throwable.)
Does anybody know, why this is the case?
Your opCmp does not provide a complete ordering of objects:
int opCmp(ref const Vector3D vec) {
if (this.x vec.x this.y vec.y this.z vec.z)
return 1;
if (this.x vec.x this.y vec.y this.z vec.z)
return -1;
return 0;
}
According to that function, the following two values are
neither less than nor greater than the other:
// passes:
assert(!(Vector3D(1, 2, 3) Vector3D(2, 1, 3))
!(Vector3D(1, 2, 3) Vector3D(2, 1, 3)));
Ali
I tried this now:
int opCmp(ref const Vector3D vec) {
if (this.x vec.x this.y vec.y this.z vec.z)
return 1;
return -1;
}
this should be a total ordering, because a Vector is always
greater or smaller, than another, but I still get the same
exception.
Re: test[0u] of type bool[1u] does not have a boolean value
On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 12:41:12 UTC, Namespace wrote:
Is this a bug or is it just me? It seems that the compiler
dereference wrong.
import std.stdio;
void foo(bool[1]* test) {
if (test[0])
test[0] = false;
}
void main()
{
bool[1] test = false;
foo(test);
}
prints: Error: expression test[0u] of type bool[1u] does not
have a boolean value
This work:
if ((*test)[0])
test[0] = false;
bool[1]*: a pointer to a static array of bools of size 1.
Ergo test[0] is of type bool[1]. Which can't be evaluated to
bool.
When you write test[0] = false, that is actually an *array
assignement* (test[0] is the same as *test, which resolves to a
bool[1]), and yo are assigning false to *all* (in this case, 1)
elements of your array.
On the other hand, (*test)[0] first dereferences the pointer to
obtain the array, and then obtains the first element... The
assignment on the next line is still wrong though.
So I think it's just you ;)
But in your defense, (I think you have a C++ background?) the
declaration syntax from D to C++ is completely different...
Related: I think this might actually give you a compiler warning
about doing a range assign without slicing? Bearophile had
suggested this shouldn't work unless you actually type:
test[0][] = false;
But I prefer:
test[0] []= false;
I can't test right now: Does your code emit no warnings with -w ?
Re: test[0u] of type bool[1u] does not have a boolean value
I get this with -wi: bug.d(5): Warning: explicit element-wise assignment (test[0u])[] = false is bett er than test[0u] = false That helps a bit. But I thought that D dereferences automatically? ;)
Re: Opaque structs
Am Sat, 29 Jun 2013 10:54:32 +0200
schrieb Maxim Fomin ma...@maxim-fomin.ru:
On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 08:01:17 UTC, Johannes Pfau wrote:
Am Fri, 28 Jun 2013 22:16:33 +0200
schrieb Andrej Mitrovic andrej.mitrov...@gmail.com:
On 6/28/13, Johannes Pfau nos...@example.com wrote:
A naive question: Why isn't struct S {} enough? This should
be a
struct with size 0 so why do we need to disable the
constructor and
postblit explicitly?
Because the user should never be able to use such a struct by
value,
in other words a user might mistakenly write code such as:
S s2 = *s; // copies 1 byte
But why is that legal / does that copy _one_ byte? It seems
like that's
totally arbitrary. Shouldn't doing anything value-related on
an empty struct be invalid anyway?
It copies one byte because empty structs have one byte -
according to D implementation. The value can be adjusted using
align() atrribute.
I see. I didn't know that we have this in the spec, but I guess there's
some good reason for this behavior if it was explicitly specified /
implemented.
Re: test[0u] of type bool[1u] does not have a boolean value
monarch_dodra: Related: I think this might actually give you a compiler warning about doing a range assign without slicing? Bearophile had suggested this shouldn't work unless you actually type: test[0][] = false; But I prefer: test[0] []= false; I can't test right now: Does your code emit no warnings with -w ? I have also suggested to have the -wi switch activated on default (as I think C# does, because people forget to use it all the time!), give a switch to disable on request the informational warnings (because once in a while you don't want warnings), and remove the -w switch (because it breaks the semantics of D programs) :-) http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=10321 Bye, bearophile
Re: test[0u] of type bool[1u] does not have a boolean value
On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 13:11:10 UTC, bearophile wrote: monarch_dodra: Related: I think this might actually give you a compiler warning about doing a range assign without slicing? Bearophile had suggested this shouldn't work unless you actually type: test[0][] = false; But I prefer: test[0] []= false; I can't test right now: Does your code emit no warnings with -w ? I have also suggested to have the -wi switch activated on default (as I think C# does, because people forget to use it all the time!), give a switch to disable on request the informational warnings (because once in a while you don't want warnings), and remove the -w switch (because it breaks the semantics of D programs) :-) http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=10321 Bye, bearophile Thanks for the link. I actually wanted to state that I think you were one of the people who thought the above should be mandatory syntax? I do.
Re: test[0u] of type bool[1u] does not have a boolean value
On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 12:57:07 UTC, Namespace wrote:
I get this with -wi:
bug.d(5): Warning: explicit element-wise assignment
(test[0u])[] = false is bett
er than test[0u] = false
That helps a bit. But I thought that D dereferences
automatically? ;)
Only when making a function call (AFAIK), eg: p.foo();
This also takes precedence over UFCS:
struct S
{
void foo(){writeln(val);}
}
void foo(S*){writeln(pointer);} //troll function trying to
hijack p.foo()
void main()
{
S* p = new S;
p.foo();
}
val
Re: sort error
On 06/29/2013 05:46 AM, snow wrote:
On Friday, 28 June 2013 at 17:07:22 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote:
Your opCmp does not provide a complete ordering of objects:
int opCmp(ref const Vector3D vec) {
if (this.x vec.x this.y vec.y this.z vec.z)
return 1;
if (this.x vec.x this.y vec.y this.z vec.z)
return -1;
return 0;
}
According to that function, the following two values are neither less
than nor greater than the other:
// passes:
assert(!(Vector3D(1, 2, 3) Vector3D(2, 1, 3))
!(Vector3D(1, 2, 3) Vector3D(2, 1, 3)));
Ali
I tried this now:
int opCmp(ref const Vector3D vec) {
if (this.x vec.x this.y vec.y this.z vec.z)
return 1;
return -1;
}
this should be a total ordering,
Unfortunately, no. opCmp must return 0 when the values are considered equal.
because a Vector is always greater or smaller, than another,
but I still get the same exception.
Not knowing whether it applies to your case, the following is one almost
correct way of writing opCmp:
int opCmp(ref const Vector3D vec) {
return cast(int)(x != vec.x
? x - vec.x
: (y != vec.y
? y - vec.y
: z - vec.z));
}
The reason I said almost is due to the usual floating point equality
comparison warnings. Values that are supposed to be equal may not
compare equal due to accumulated earlier floating point calculation errors.
Ali
Re: Opaque structs
On 6/29/13, Johannes Pfau nos...@example.com wrote: Shouldn't doing anything value-related on an empty struct be invalid anyway? Maybe, maybe not. I could imagine it would cause problems if we simply disallowed it, e.g. if you want to copy attributes from one declaration to another.
Re: sort error
On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 14:20:05 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote:
On 06/29/2013 05:46 AM, snow wrote:
On Friday, 28 June 2013 at 17:07:22 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote:
Your opCmp does not provide a complete ordering of objects:
int opCmp(ref const Vector3D vec) {
if (this.x vec.x this.y vec.y this.z
vec.z)
return 1;
if (this.x vec.x this.y vec.y this.z
vec.z)
return -1;
return 0;
}
According to that function, the following two values are
neither less
than nor greater than the other:
// passes:
assert(!(Vector3D(1, 2, 3) Vector3D(2, 1, 3))
!(Vector3D(1, 2, 3) Vector3D(2, 1, 3)));
Ali
I tried this now:
int opCmp(ref const Vector3D vec) {
if (this.x vec.x this.y vec.y this.z
vec.z)
return 1;
return -1;
}
this should be a total ordering,
Unfortunately, no. opCmp must return 0 when the values are
considered equal.
because a Vector is always greater or smaller, than another,
but I still get the same exception.
Not knowing whether it applies to your case, the following is
one almost correct way of writing opCmp:
int opCmp(ref const Vector3D vec) {
return cast(int)(x != vec.x
? x - vec.x
: (y != vec.y
? y - vec.y
: z - vec.z));
}
The reason I said almost is due to the usual floating point
equality comparison warnings. Values that are supposed to be
equal may not compare equal due to accumulated earlier floating
point calculation errors.
Ali
Thats a cool way, thanks. But the exception is still coming. Both
solutions throw -1,0 or 1. So my first solution should work,
too. Sure that the exception is coming, because of the compare
function?
Re: sort error
On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 14:20:05 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote:
Not knowing whether it applies to your case, the following is
one almost correct way of writing opCmp:
int opCmp(ref const Vector3D vec) {
return cast(int)(x != vec.x
? x - vec.x
: (y != vec.y
? y - vec.y
: z - vec.z));
}
Ali
This is the closes thing to what the OP wrote, but it is a *very*
(IMO) strange way to sort 3D elements.
In basic English, it's:
Whoever has the smallest X, or, if tied,
Whoever has the smallest Y, or, if tied,
Whoever has the smallest Z
OP: Is this how you wanted to sort?
This is strange to me because ordering is (usually) tied to a
norm, where basically, opCmp returns whoever has the smallest
norm. Yet this ordering isn't really tied to any norm.
OP: Can you confirm how you want to sort? Usually, 3DVector are
sorted using any of Euclidian, Manhatan, Maximum or Minimum norm:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norm_(mathematics)#Examples
If you can define a norm function, then opCmp becomes:
int opCmp(in Vector3D iRhs)
{
auto nLhs = this.norm();
auto nRhs = iRhs.norm();
return (nLhs nRhs) - (nLhs nRhs);
}
This is standard boilerplate opCmp. It avoids branching too.
Unable to compile Phobos using wiki's instruction
Hi folks, As I'm learning phobos, I wanted a more inside look and did a co of the libs + dmd. DMD compiles fine (using dmc), as well as druntime. But when it comes to phobos, I'm not able to compile, I get: [...] DMD v2.064-devel-42b668b-dirty DEBUG std.md5 is scheduled for deprecation. Please use std.digest.md instead The 'crc32' module has been scheduled for deprecation. Please use 'std.digest.cr c' instead. std\process.d(490): Error: undefined identifier GetHandleInformation std\process.d(491): Error: undefined identifier HANDLE_FLAG_INHERIT std\process.d(493): Error: undefined identifier SetHandleInformation std\process.d(494): Error: undefined identifier HANDLE_FLAG_INHERIT std\process.d(495): Error: undefined identifier HANDLE_FLAG_INHERIT std\process.d(512): Error: undefined identifier CREATE_UNICODE_ENVIRONMENT std\process.d(1311): Error: undefined identifier TerminateProcess --- errorlevel 1 G:\code\D\dmd2\src\phobos I tested on 2 computers (win7 64b). 1) I tried win32/win64, using both the built compiler (DMD 2.064-devel) and 2.63.2 downloaded from the website. I have VS 2010 as well as 2012 installed. 2) I tried win64, using only the devel compiler. I also tweaked the Makefile (Setting C:\ instead of \ for the SDK / VS path, and setting VS version to 11 as I only have VS2012 installed). For the rest I stricly followed http://wiki.dlang.org/Building_DMD (I even have %DM_HOME% in my user's env). Any help will be greatly appreciated, as I'm pretty sure I am missing the obvious.
Re: Unable to compile Phobos using wiki's instruction
On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 15:03:05 UTC, Geod24 wrote: Hi folks, As I'm learning phobos, I wanted a more inside look and did a co of the libs + dmd. Try getting the latest druntime from git-head, since these symbols were moved from phobos into druntime a few pull requests ago.
Re: Unable to compile Phobos using wiki's instruction
On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 15:15:08 UTC, Andrej Mitrovic wrote: On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 15:14:19 UTC, Andrej Mitrovic wrote: On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 15:03:05 UTC, Geod24 wrote: Hi folks, As I'm learning phobos, I wanted a more inside look and did a co of the libs + dmd. Try getting the latest druntime from git-head, since these symbols were moved from phobos into druntime a few pull requests ago. Also not that you're going to have to build druntime again, and then phobos. It's because druntime will create new .di import modules, which contain those symbols. I meant *note*
Re: Unable to compile Phobos using wiki's instruction
On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 15:14:19 UTC, Andrej Mitrovic wrote: On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 15:03:05 UTC, Geod24 wrote: Hi folks, As I'm learning phobos, I wanted a more inside look and did a co of the libs + dmd. Try getting the latest druntime from git-head, since these symbols were moved from phobos into druntime a few pull requests ago. Also not that you're going to have to build druntime again, and then phobos. It's because druntime will create new .di import modules, which contain those symbols.
Re: Opaque structs
On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 08:01:17 UTC, Johannes Pfau wrote: Shouldn't doing anything value-related on an empty struct be invalid anyway? Why ? The fact that the struct has no members is an implementation detail which should have no impact on the user of the struct.
Re: sort error
On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 14:54:13 UTC, snow wrote:
On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 14:20:05 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote:
Not knowing whether it applies to your case, the following is
one almost correct way of writing opCmp:
int opCmp(ref const Vector3D vec) {
return cast(int)(x != vec.x
? x - vec.x
: (y != vec.y
? y - vec.y
: z - vec.z));
}
The reason I said almost is due to the usual floating point
equality comparison warnings. Values that are supposed to be
equal may not compare equal due to accumulated earlier
floating point calculation errors.
Ali
Thats a cool way, thanks. But the exception is still coming.
Not for me, Ali's code works.
Both solutions throw -1,0 or 1.
What do you mean throw -1,0 or 1 ?
So my first solution should work, too. Sure that the exception
is coming, because of the compare function?
Your code throws an exception for me, ali's doesn't. The only
difference is the compare function. So *pretty* much sure, yes.
That said, in debug code, there *should* be an assert rather than
a dumb range error. This requires an enhancement.
Re: Unable to compile Phobos using wiki's instruction
On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 15:15:49 UTC, Andrej Mitrovic wrote: On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 15:15:08 UTC, Andrej Mitrovic wrote: On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 15:14:19 UTC, Andrej Mitrovic wrote: On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 15:03:05 UTC, Geod24 wrote: Hi folks, As I'm learning phobos, I wanted a more inside look and did a co of the libs + dmd. Try getting the latest druntime from git-head, since these symbols were moved from phobos into druntime a few pull requests ago. Also not that you're going to have to build druntime again, and then phobos. It's because druntime will create new .di import modules, which contain those symbols. I meant *note* Successfully built it after fetching the up-to-date repo, thank you !
Re: Interacting between two different programs
On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 07:45:01 UTC, yaz wrote: On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 06:08:28 UTC, Jeremy DeHaan wrote: I've been toying around with the idea of working on an IDE, mostly because I think it would be an interesting/fun project to work on. In any case, the only thing I cannot seem to wrap my head around is how programs like Code Blocks and Visual Studio, and various other IDE's interact with debuggers as if it isn't some external thing. How does someone have one program interact with another like this? Can you have one send its output to the other's input? Do they somehow share the same IO's? I've never had to write code that does anything like this so I'm you great minds out there can shed some light. Thanks in advance! You can use std.phobos.pipeProcess to interact with an external process that you spawn. This works by connecting the standard streams between the child and parent processes, so that they can send and receive data. GDB provides an interface that can be used with this kind of intercommunication. It is called GDB MI. You can read about it here http://ftp.gnu.org/old-gnu/Manuals/gdb-5.1.1/html_node/gdb_211.html#SEC216 This was exactly what I was looking for, thanks! And thank you as well, Anthony. This is a lot of good information.
Error: this for method name needs to be type S not type MapResult!...
Please explain why this error happens in the following code:
import std.algorithm;
struct S
{
void foo ()
{
int f1 (int a) { return conv(a); }
int delegate (int) f2 = conv;
int[] x = [1, 2, 3];
x.map!conv;// ERROR
x.map!f1; // fine
x.map!f2; // also fine
}
int conv (int a)
{
return a+1;
}
}
--- compile output:
/usr/include/d/std/algorithm.d(404): Error: this for conv needs to be
type S not type MapResult!(conv, int[])
/usr/include/d/std/algorithm.d(438): Error: this for conv needs to be
type S not type MapResult!(conv, int[])
/usr/include/d/std/algorithm.d(450): Error: this for conv needs to be
type S not type MapResult!(conv, int[])
/usr/include/d/std/algorithm.d(390): Error: template instance
std.algorithm.MapResult!(conv, int[]) error instantiating
/home/peter/proggen/goliza.reduced/gtp.d(12):instantiated from
here: map!(int[])
/home/peter/proggen/goliza.reduced/gtp.d(12): Error: template instance
std.algorithm.map!(conv).map!(int[]) error instantiating
---
Thanks,
-Peter
Cryptic Error message with scope(failure) and AA
Is this known?
I've heard there are many problems with associative arrays.
dmd 2.063
---
module scopefailtest;
int[char] AAarray;
void main(string[] args)
{
AAarray = ['a':1, 'b':2, 'c':3];
foreach(aa; AAarray)
{
scope(failure)continue;
aa = 32;
}
}
---
dmd output
Error: cannot implicitly convert expression (0) of type int to
void
Works without scope(failure)
Works with non Associative Array
No helpful description.
No file or line number.
Very hard to find.
