Re: Card on fire
On 2016-07-16 02:06, Walter Bright wrote: BTW, even if an app requires all sorts of registry settings, that is still no excuse. Have a config file, and when the app starts up, it looks for the registry settings. If not there, it reads the config file, and sets the registry settings. I.e. it self-installs. I think that's what most applications on OS X do. They usually store configs in ~/Library/Preferences but they don't need an installer for that. On the other hand, the configs are just plain text in the plist format. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Re: [OT] Re: Card on fire
On Saturday, 16 July 2016 at 12:16:48 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote: On 07/16/2016 12:57 AM, Basile B. wrote: > On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 21:03:28 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote: >> The amazing group Replikas > From the few I know i retain this one > > https://youtu.be/Fn8ZfjBsrng?t=23m19s > > very hooking. Amazing! And there is a connection: I recognized "Taş var Köpek Yok" right away because Replikas covers that song in the hidden track of one of their albums: https://www.izlesene.com/video/replikas-reddiye/5805189#t=720 Ok, this sub thread can go on forever but it should end at some point... :) Ali I agree. I've used my culture to mock walt...but now it's finished...
Re: [OT] Re: Card on fire
On 07/16/2016 12:57 AM, Basile B. wrote: > On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 21:03:28 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote: >> The amazing group Replikas > From the few I know i retain this one > > https://youtu.be/Fn8ZfjBsrng?t=23m19s > > very hooking. Amazing! And there is a connection: I recognized "Taş var Köpek Yok" right away because Replikas covers that song in the hidden track of one of their albums: https://www.izlesene.com/video/replikas-reddiye/5805189#t=720 Ok, this sub thread can go on forever but it should end at some point... :) Ali
Re: [OT] Re: Card on fire
On Saturday, 16 July 2016 at 07:57:20 UTC, Basile B. wrote: On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 21:03:28 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote: On 07/14/2016 09:18 PM, Basile B. wrote: > [...] >> [...] posting that. >> [...] "under-appreciated >> [...] > [...] treasures" of > [...] think that you > [...] were truely > [...] I was too young to appreciate at the time but apparently the sound track and the whole aesthetics of the 60s are trapped inside my cells. :) The amazing group Replikas has recently recorded some of the songs from the Anatolian Rock era: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biz_Burada_Yok_%C4%B0ken I think I love Replikas because they seem to make music for themselves. Ali From the few I know i retain this one https://youtu.be/Fn8ZfjBsrng?t=23m19s very hooking. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuQkQEcsm5Y=12=PLuhnsen8iS5ltHofd21TWBx-bqmR9V8RU=False
Re: Card on fire
On Saturday, 16 July 2016 at 04:54:02 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote: On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 05:02:55PM -0700, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d wrote: On 7/15/2016 3:43 PM, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote: > One of the many reasons I gave up on Windows many years ago, > and never looked back. ;-) I have my grump list for Linux, too. Tried to install it once on an HP laptop, and the installer crashed with some long error message in hex. Like a good boy, I posted a bug report on it on the distro seb site. One of their devs closed it the next day because I wouldn't attach a remote debugger to it. I have my list of gripes against Linux, too. The good thing about Linux, though, is that if something doesn't work, you can go under the hood and fix stuff. Dig into config files and stuff -- which are plain text as opposed to opaque, unreadable binary format -- and if you're up for it, download the source and fix it yourself. And there's lots of online resources about how to get under the hood and fix things. You can even replace system executables with your own, if it doesn't do what you want. In Windows, basically the hood is welded shut, and if there's a bug in system software, you're basically screwed. Plus, Linux software generally are much more resilient to customization, so I can customize the heck out of my system and make it resemble nothing anyone else would know how to use. Replace system components with alternatives. Dispense with GUI bloatware altogether and install ratpoison. Kill off the rodent. Use Adam's graphical terminal. Streamline everything to suit the way I work. In Windows, even something so trivially simple as changing to lazy focus causes tons of programs to break left, right and center, because everything is built around a set of implicit assumptions of how the user is supposed to use the PC. Trying to do anything other than the "Windows way" is an exercise in frustration. Not to mention those endless menus hidden inside submenus that give me an aneurysm just trying to find that one obscure checkbox that may or may not exist and may or may not do what I want. Whereas on Linux I just edit a system config file, restart a daemon or two, and off I go. No need for my hands to ever leave the keyboard. The Ubuntu printer install isn't any better than Microsoft's. I wonder what it is about printers. I can plug in USB drives, internal drives, all sorts of things, and they just work. Even when it's working, the simplest things fail. I learned to never queue a second job until the first one is completely finished, else it botches up both jobs. It's not like it's a weird printer, either. It's an HP LaserJet, fer chrissakes. Haha, yes, this is one of the annoying things about Linux. You have to be careful about what hardware you buy, 'cos some hardware doesn't have drivers, or only has proprietary drivers (which are inevitably horribly out of date or somehow incompatible with your system unless you have 100% the exact hardware environment and software settings they used to test it 15 years ago), or worse, just no driver at all. If you're lucky, there's a generic driver for it, but be prepared for malfunctions, missing features, or just outright breakage. When you get the right hardware, things Just Work. But when you don't, it's an endless journey of pain. You'd think distros like Ubuntu ought to have gotten their act together in this respect, but sometimes it's still a shot in the dark... Plus, I hate the default Ubuntu install because it comes with all sorts of cruft I'm not interested in. I rather just install a plain vanilla no-frills Debian base system, then add individual components that I actually need, as I need them. A couple of years ago I got a new PC with Ubuntu preinstalled, and the first thing I did upon bootup was to uninstall the default GUI and a whole bunch of useless stuff, change /etc/apt/sources.list to point to the Debian repo instead, and install the exact packages that I need. Now it has been transmogrified into a custom Debian system, and I like it that way. :-P I had much better result with SuSE than with Mint (i.e. an Ubuntu based distro) concerning hardware support. On Linux impossible to get my Samsung Laser Printer and my Canon scanner to work. The laser printer would only ever print one page with the message that it can't print, bummer. On SuSE in worked out of the box. The annoying thing with SuSE was that it installed sys partition with btrfs, on small partition it is problematic because the snapshoting could fill it up until breakage, annoying.
Re: [OT] Re: Card on fire
On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 21:03:28 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote: On 07/14/2016 09:18 PM, Basile B. wrote: > [...] >> [...] posting that. >> [...] "under-appreciated >> [...] > [...] treasures" of > [...] think that you > [...] were truely > [...] I was too young to appreciate at the time but apparently the sound track and the whole aesthetics of the 60s are trapped inside my cells. :) The amazing group Replikas has recently recorded some of the songs from the Anatolian Rock era: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biz_Burada_Yok_%C4%B0ken I think I love Replikas because they seem to make music for themselves. Ali From the few I know i retain this one https://youtu.be/Fn8ZfjBsrng?t=23m19s very hooking.
Re: Card on fire
On 16/07/2016 01:02, Walter Bright wrote: The Ubuntu printer install isn't any better than Microsoft's. I wonder what it is about printers. I can plug in USB drives, internal drives, all sorts of things, and they just work. Even when it's working, the simplest things fail. I learned to never queue a second job until the first one is completely finished, else it botches up both jobs. It's not like it's a weird printer, either. It's an HP LaserJet, fer chrissakes. With my HP printer, if I don't turn it off between print, the computer freezes up after about 30 mins, happened with windows & and motivated my move to 10, but it still happens there too.
Re: Card on fire
On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 05:02:55PM -0700, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d wrote: > On 7/15/2016 3:43 PM, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote: > > One of the many reasons I gave up on Windows many years ago, and > > never looked back. ;-) > > I have my grump list for Linux, too. Tried to install it once on an HP > laptop, and the installer crashed with some long error message in hex. > Like a good boy, I posted a bug report on it on the distro seb site. > One of their devs closed it the next day because I wouldn't attach a > remote debugger to it. I have my list of gripes against Linux, too. The good thing about Linux, though, is that if something doesn't work, you can go under the hood and fix stuff. Dig into config files and stuff -- which are plain text as opposed to opaque, unreadable binary format -- and if you're up for it, download the source and fix it yourself. And there's lots of online resources about how to get under the hood and fix things. You can even replace system executables with your own, if it doesn't do what you want. In Windows, basically the hood is welded shut, and if there's a bug in system software, you're basically screwed. Plus, Linux software generally are much more resilient to customization, so I can customize the heck out of my system and make it resemble nothing anyone else would know how to use. Replace system components with alternatives. Dispense with GUI bloatware altogether and install ratpoison. Kill off the rodent. Use Adam's graphical terminal. Streamline everything to suit the way I work. In Windows, even something so trivially simple as changing to lazy focus causes tons of programs to break left, right and center, because everything is built around a set of implicit assumptions of how the user is supposed to use the PC. Trying to do anything other than the "Windows way" is an exercise in frustration. Not to mention those endless menus hidden inside submenus that give me an aneurysm just trying to find that one obscure checkbox that may or may not exist and may or may not do what I want. Whereas on Linux I just edit a system config file, restart a daemon or two, and off I go. No need for my hands to ever leave the keyboard. > The Ubuntu printer install isn't any better than Microsoft's. I wonder > what it is about printers. I can plug in USB drives, internal drives, > all sorts of things, and they just work. > > Even when it's working, the simplest things fail. I learned to never > queue a second job until the first one is completely finished, else it > botches up both jobs. > > It's not like it's a weird printer, either. It's an HP LaserJet, fer > chrissakes. Haha, yes, this is one of the annoying things about Linux. You have to be careful about what hardware you buy, 'cos some hardware doesn't have drivers, or only has proprietary drivers (which are inevitably horribly out of date or somehow incompatible with your system unless you have 100% the exact hardware environment and software settings they used to test it 15 years ago), or worse, just no driver at all. If you're lucky, there's a generic driver for it, but be prepared for malfunctions, missing features, or just outright breakage. When you get the right hardware, things Just Work. But when you don't, it's an endless journey of pain. You'd think distros like Ubuntu ought to have gotten their act together in this respect, but sometimes it's still a shot in the dark... Plus, I hate the default Ubuntu install because it comes with all sorts of cruft I'm not interested in. I rather just install a plain vanilla no-frills Debian base system, then add individual components that I actually need, as I need them. A couple of years ago I got a new PC with Ubuntu preinstalled, and the first thing I did upon bootup was to uninstall the default GUI and a whole bunch of useless stuff, change /etc/apt/sources.list to point to the Debian repo instead, and install the exact packages that I need. Now it has been transmogrified into a custom Debian system, and I like it that way. :-P T -- People tell me that I'm paranoid, but they're just out to get me.
Re: Card on fire
On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 10:55:06PM +, Adam D. Ruppe via Digitalmars-d wrote: > On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 22:48:14 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: > > For a time at Symantec I pushed through making the compiler runnable > > directly off of the CD without requiring an installation. > > Fun fact: this was basically THE killer feature of the Digital Mars > compiler for me way back when. I started on a school computer where I > couldn't install anything, and later, when I got a home computer, I > kept it on disc. > > To this day, I still use dmd the same way: unzip it and call the > program in-place instead of trying to install it. Nowadays I almost never install software unless it comes prepackaged with my OS's packaging system and can be installed/uninstalled with a single command. For things like dmd I just set my PATH to run it directly from dmd/src where it was built. For things that need to install a whole bunch of stuff in an entire filesystem hierarchy, I usually recompile it with PREFIX set to a subdirectory dedicated to everything related to that program, and install it there (with appropriate PATH settings). The main reason is that almost all software these days install needless junk all over the place, and there's no way to ensure that an uninstall didn't leave detritus behind if I just let it install into the system directories. When it's inside a dedicated directory I just blast the whole thing away when I want to uninstall. T -- They pretend to pay us, and we pretend to work. -- Russian saying
Re: Card on fire
On 7/15/2016 3:55 PM, Adam D. Ruppe wrote: On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 22:48:14 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: For a time at Symantec I pushed through making the compiler runnable directly off of the CD without requiring an installation. Fun fact: this was basically THE killer feature of the Digital Mars compiler for me way back when. I started on a school computer where I couldn't install anything, and later, when I got a home computer, I kept it on disc. To this day, I still use dmd the same way: unzip it and call the program in-place instead of trying to install it. Nice to hear that! BTW, even if an app requires all sorts of registry settings, that is still no excuse. Have a config file, and when the app starts up, it looks for the registry settings. If not there, it reads the config file, and sets the registry settings. I.e. it self-installs. Every app should have a "Backup/restore all my data/settings to/from a single file" menu item. That's what's wrong with Thunderbird, who does something even stupider by putting the data in hidden directories.
Re: Card on fire
On 7/15/2016 3:43 PM, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote: One of the many reasons I gave up on Windows many years ago, and never looked back. ;-) I have my grump list for Linux, too. Tried to install it once on an HP laptop, and the installer crashed with some long error message in hex. Like a good boy, I posted a bug report on it on the distro seb site. One of their devs closed it the next day because I wouldn't attach a remote debugger to it. The Ubuntu printer install isn't any better than Microsoft's. I wonder what it is about printers. I can plug in USB drives, internal drives, all sorts of things, and they just work. Even when it's working, the simplest things fail. I learned to never queue a second job until the first one is completely finished, else it botches up both jobs. It's not like it's a weird printer, either. It's an HP LaserJet, fer chrissakes.
Re: Card on fire
On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 22:48:14 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: For a time at Symantec I pushed through making the compiler runnable directly off of the CD without requiring an installation. Fun fact: this was basically THE killer feature of the Digital Mars compiler for me way back when. I started on a school computer where I couldn't install anything, and later, when I got a home computer, I kept it on disc. To this day, I still use dmd the same way: unzip it and call the program in-place instead of trying to install it.
Re: Card on fire
On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 03:44:20PM -0700, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d wrote: > On 7/15/2016 12:16 PM, Meta wrote: > > On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 05:10:29 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: > > > I'm excluding the pain of Windows reinstall, as it took 14 hours > > > of sitting there blankly "checking for updates". I wonder what it > > > was possibly doing that took 14 hours (the disk was fresh, there > > > was nothing to transmit to the NSA). > > > > It's a known Windows issue: > > http://www.infoworld.com/article/3069693/microsoft-windows/windows-7-update-scans-taking-forever-kb-3153199-may-solve-the-problem.html > > The article is full of "seems to work", "may work", and "some say it > didn't work". > > You'd think Microsoft could attach a debugger to it, figure out > exactly why, and fix it. It's staggering how this goes unnoticed and > unfixed. One of the many reasons I gave up on Windows many years ago, and never looked back. ;-) T -- I don't trust computers, I've spent too long programming to think that they can get anything right. -- James Miller
Re: Card on fire
On 7/15/2016 12:46 PM, Jack Stouffer wrote: On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 05:10:29 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: The absolutely easiest reinstall was dmd - I just copied the directory over from the backup - but I suppose handing out awards to ourselves is a bit narcissistic. Always nice to dog food every once and a while to confirm it though. OT: Why is the install process for mac apps so much nicer compared to windows apps? To install something on OS X, drag the application from the .dmg folder to your application folder, and you're done. Windows apps always have me go through a multistep "install wizard" that takes anywhere from 2 minutes to a half hour depending on the app :/ For a time at Symantec I pushed through making the compiler runnable directly off of the CD without requiring an installation. Just put the CD in, and you could do everything (a little slowly, of course, since CDs are slow). I was bemused by so many people who simply could not accept that this could even work, they were so conditioned by installation programs. If I wasn't paying attention, Symantec would revert to type and require an installation program for it. :-)
Re: Card on fire
On 7/15/2016 12:16 PM, Meta wrote: On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 05:10:29 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: I'm excluding the pain of Windows reinstall, as it took 14 hours of sitting there blankly "checking for updates". I wonder what it was possibly doing that took 14 hours (the disk was fresh, there was nothing to transmit to the NSA). It's a known Windows issue: http://www.infoworld.com/article/3069693/microsoft-windows/windows-7-update-scans-taking-forever-kb-3153199-may-solve-the-problem.html The article is full of "seems to work", "may work", and "some say it didn't work". You'd think Microsoft could attach a debugger to it, figure out exactly why, and fix it. It's staggering how this goes unnoticed and unfixed. I had the exact same problem after reinstalling Windows 7 a few months ago. I've had the problem every time I reinstall Windows 7, on different machines. I learned that you had to disable it going to sleep when doing this, else it will never ever complete.
Re: [OT] Re: Card on fire
On 07/14/2016 09:18 PM, Basile B. wrote: > On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 00:17:35 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote: >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOErZuzZpS8 >>> >> >> OK, this is really going off off topic but thank you for posting that. >> I've discovered Arthur Brown (you? ;) ). An "under-appreciated >> treasure" indeed... Something new from the 60s once again... > This makes me think that there is also "under-appreciated treasures" of > the same times in your origin country (turkie right ?), I think that you > should know all the "Anatolyan rock" wave. Some of the stuff were truely > awesome. I was too young to appreciate at the time but apparently the sound track and the whole aesthetics of the 60s are trapped inside my cells. :) The amazing group Replikas has recently recorded some of the songs from the Anatolian Rock era: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biz_Burada_Yok_%C4%B0ken I think I love Replikas because they seem to make music for themselves. Ali
Re: Card on fire
On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 05:10:29 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: The absolutely easiest reinstall was dmd - I just copied the directory over from the backup - but I suppose handing out awards to ourselves is a bit narcissistic. Always nice to dog food every once and a while to confirm it though. OT: Why is the install process for mac apps so much nicer compared to windows apps? To install something on OS X, drag the application from the .dmg folder to your application folder, and you're done. Windows apps always have me go through a multistep "install wizard" that takes anywhere from 2 minutes to a half hour depending on the app :/
Re: Card on fire
On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 05:10:29 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: I'm excluding the pain of Windows reinstall, as it took 14 hours of sitting there blankly "checking for updates". I wonder what it was possibly doing that took 14 hours (the disk was fresh, there was nothing to transmit to the NSA). It's a known Windows issue: http://www.infoworld.com/article/3069693/microsoft-windows/windows-7-update-scans-taking-forever-kb-3153199-may-solve-the-problem.html I had the exact same problem after reinstalling Windows 7 a few months ago.
Re: Card on fire
On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 05:10:29 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: I'm excluding the pain of Windows reinstall, as it took 14 hours of sitting there blankly "checking for updates". I wonder what it was possibly doing that took 14 hours (the disk was fresh, there was nothing to transmit to the NSA). It's just to punish you for using their product. Just to show you. Like a well known cheap Irish airline [1] ;) [1] http://davefaq.com/Opinions/RyanAir-Sucks/
Re: Card on fire
On 7/9/2016 7:43 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Got a text from Walter - his famous fanless graphics card caught fire along with the motherboard. He'll be outta commission for a few days. -- Andrei Back in business now with a new motherboard and new graphics card, which also wound up forcing a from scratch reinstall of everything. I didn't lose any files, but the episode did expose some shortcomings of my backup system, so I'm setting about correcting that. Nothing like searching everywhere for a missing install CD you haven't seen in years :-( The award for most painless reinstall goes to Quicken, with Thunderbird Mail being the first runner up. They still had problems, though. A raspberry for most painful reinstall (3 hrs) goes to TL_PS110P print server, in conjunction with Microsoft/HP's terrible support for printer installation that hasn't improved since 1982 or so. I'm excluding the pain of Windows reinstall, as it took 14 hours of sitting there blankly "checking for updates". I wonder what it was possibly doing that took 14 hours (the disk was fresh, there was nothing to transmit to the NSA). --- The absolutely easiest reinstall was dmd - I just copied the directory over from the backup - but I suppose handing out awards to ourselves is a bit narcissistic.
[OT] Re: Card on fire
On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 00:17:35 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote: On 07/09/2016 09:11 PM, A.B wrote: On Sunday, 10 July 2016 at 02:43:42 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Got a text from Walter - his famous fanless graphics card caught fire along with the motherboard. He'll be outta commission for a few days. -- Andrei lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOErZuzZpS8 OK, this is really going off off topic but thank you for posting that. I've discovered Arthur Brown (you? ;) ). An "under-appreciated treasure" indeed... Something new from the 60s once again... Ali Actually it was me, I often use some stupid pseudos (or confusing ones) on the forum, espacially after beer. This makes me think that there is also "under-appreciated treasures" of the same times in your origin country (turkie right ?), I think that you should know all the "Anatolyan rock" wave. Some of the stuff were truely awesome.
Re: Card on fire
On 07/09/2016 09:11 PM, A.B wrote: On Sunday, 10 July 2016 at 02:43:42 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Got a text from Walter - his famous fanless graphics card caught fire along with the motherboard. He'll be outta commission for a few days. -- Andrei lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOErZuzZpS8 OK, this is really going off off topic but thank you for posting that. I've discovered Arthur Brown (you? ;) ). An "under-appreciated treasure" indeed... Something new from the 60s once again... Ali
Re: Card on fire
On 07/11/2016 02:11 PM, Walter Bright wrote: On 7/9/2016 9:11 PM, A.B wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOErZuzZpS8 You must be older than me to think of that song! Great music! I was thinking how dangerous that show was then I found this on Wikipedia: Brown quickly earned a reputation for outlandish performances, which included the use of a burning metal helmet, that led to occasional mishaps, such as during an early appearance at the Windsor Festival in 1967, where he wore a colander on his head soaked in methanol. The fuel poured over his head by accident and caught fire; a bystander doused the flames by pouring beer on Brown's head, preventing any serious injury.[6] The flaming head then became an Arthur Brown signature. :D Ali
Re: Card on fire
On 2016-07-13 21:09, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote: I would, as recent kernels support that now, but just haven't had the time to figure out how to set it up just yet. :D Seems like Ksplice has been available since 2008 [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ksplice -- /Jacob Carlborg
Re: Card on fire
On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 09:49:49AM +0200, Jacob Carlborg via Digitalmars-d wrote: > On 2016-07-12 21:09, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote: > > > I leave my PC running all the time, and there's never been a > > problem. I never reboot unless there's a power outage or the kernel > > is being upgraded > > You don't do "no reboot" kernel patching? ;) [...] I would, as recent kernels support that now, but just haven't had the time to figure out how to set it up just yet. :D T -- Государство делает вид, что платит нам зарплату, а мы делаем вид, что работаем.
Re: Card on fire
On 2016-07-12 21:09, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote: I leave my PC running all the time, and there's never been a problem. I never reboot unless there's a power outage or the kernel is being upgraded You don't do "no reboot" kernel patching? ;) -- /Jacob Carlborg
Re: Card on fire
On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 07:05:41PM +, Jack Stouffer via Digitalmars-d wrote: > On Tuesday, 12 July 2016 at 18:30:58 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote: > > On 2016-07-12 15:20, Chris wrote: > > > > > Maybe if it's up an running, it's not so bad. But if it goes to > > > sleep as well, then things get messy. OS X is not the worst > > > offender, but the safest thing is to reboot regularly to clean the > > > RAM. I don't know what exactly causes crashes and funny behavior > > > but I guess it's "polluted" RAM. > > > > I put my computer in sleep mode every night and there's been no > > problems. I have an up time of 79 days. > > Same here. I'm sitting on a 39 day uptime with no problems. I leave my PC running all the time, and there's never been a problem. I never reboot unless there's a power outage or the kernel is being upgraded or I'm physically moving it somewhere else. Current uptime is 181 days. I also have a remote server that's been up 665 days. Linux rulez. ;-) T -- Why waste time reinventing the wheel, when you could be reinventing the engine? -- Damian Conway
Re: Card on fire
On Tuesday, 12 July 2016 at 18:30:58 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2016-07-12 15:20, Chris wrote: Maybe if it's up an running, it's not so bad. But if it goes to sleep as well, then things get messy. OS X is not the worst offender, but the safest thing is to reboot regularly to clean the RAM. I don't know what exactly causes crashes and funny behavior but I guess it's "polluted" RAM. I put my computer in sleep mode every night and there's been no problems. I have an up time of 79 days. Same here. I'm sitting on a 39 day uptime with no problems.
[OT] Re: Card on fire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_smoke On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:42 PM, deadalnix via Digitalmars-d < digitalmars-d@puremagic.com> wrote: > On Tuesday, 12 July 2016 at 12:17:00 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: > >> I seriously doubt a fan would stop an electrical fire (in fact, probably >> makes it worse). It's not overheating, it's arcing. >> >> > Actually, it would probably make it worse by providing fresh O2 to the > fire. > > BTW, this reminds me of a old goodie: >> >> http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/96/Jun/nosmoke.html >> >> A old colleague of mine always said when you see smoke, there's no way to >> fix it, because it's really hard to get the smoke back in there. >> >> -Steve >> > > We had a similar saying when I was involved int he electronic world: Chips > must be powered by smoke. We know this because once it is gone, the chip > doesn't work anymore. > >
Re: Card on fire
On Tuesday, 12 July 2016 at 12:17:00 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: I seriously doubt a fan would stop an electrical fire (in fact, probably makes it worse). It's not overheating, it's arcing. Actually, it would probably make it worse by providing fresh O2 to the fire. BTW, this reminds me of a old goodie: http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/96/Jun/nosmoke.html A old colleague of mine always said when you see smoke, there's no way to fix it, because it's really hard to get the smoke back in there. -Steve We had a similar saying when I was involved int he electronic world: Chips must be powered by smoke. We know this because once it is gone, the chip doesn't work anymore.
Re: Card on fire
On 2016-07-12 15:20, Chris wrote: Maybe if it's up an running, it's not so bad. But if it goes to sleep as well, then things get messy. OS X is not the worst offender, but the safest thing is to reboot regularly to clean the RAM. I don't know what exactly causes crashes and funny behavior but I guess it's "polluted" RAM. I put my computer in sleep mode every night and there's been no problems. I have an up time of 79 days. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Re: Card on fire
On 2016-07-12 14:12, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: OSX needs a reboot every once in a while. iOS too. In particular, my bluetooth system will stop working (and then my trackpad no longer works). Yes, I've tried all the resetting firmware tricks :) I currently have an up time of 79 days. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Re: Card on fire
On 07/09/2016 10:43 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Got a text from Walter - his famous fanless graphics card caught fire along with the motherboard. He'll be outta commission for a few days. -- Andrei I didn't mark the original post with [OT] because it was informing the community about Walter's whereabouts. Please mark all off-topic follow-ups with [OT]. Thanks! -- Andrei
Re: Card on fire
On Tuesday, 12 July 2016 at 13:20:17 UTC, Chris wrote: On Tuesday, 12 July 2016 at 11:51:48 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2016-07-12 11:06, Chris wrote: [...] Sleep can be convenient if you're going to use it later the same day, for example. [...] I use OS X and I don't recognize that problem. Maybe if it's up an running, it's not so bad. But if it goes to sleep as well, then things get messy. OS X is not the worst offender, but the safest thing is to reboot regularly to clean the RAM. I don't know what exactly causes crashes and funny behavior but I guess it's "polluted" RAM. PS Computers with solid state drives boots so fast these days, that it's almost as fast to reboot it as to wake it up.
Re: Card on fire
On Tuesday, 12 July 2016 at 11:51:48 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2016-07-12 11:06, Chris wrote: I turn it off every day. Sleep can be convenient if you're going to use it later the same day, for example. If the OS is up too long (several days), it starts to act weirdly and may crash at the most inconvenient time (is there a convenient time for a crash?). All OSes are the same in this respect, I think Windows is the worst, but Linux and OS X are not much better in this respect. Must be some sort of memory pollution. I use OS X and I don't recognize that problem. Maybe if it's up an running, it's not so bad. But if it goes to sleep as well, then things get messy. OS X is not the worst offender, but the safest thing is to reboot regularly to clean the RAM. I don't know what exactly causes crashes and funny behavior but I guess it's "polluted" RAM.
Re: Card on fire
On 7/12/16 7:37 AM, Walter Bright wrote: On 7/12/2016 3:08 AM, Michael wrote: Maybe it's time to invest in some "workstation" / server-grade stuff if it's going to be running continuously with little moving air. There's still a case fan, cpu fan, and power supply fan, just not one dedicated to the card itself. The fire didn't start on the components that were attached to the heat sink. I've run all sorts of computers for 40 years now, have had all sorts of hardware failures, and this is the first one that caught fire. The server hardware I've seen all had very noisy fans. I couldn't bear that. I seriously doubt a fan would stop an electrical fire (in fact, probably makes it worse). It's not overheating, it's arcing. BTW, this reminds me of a old goodie: http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/96/Jun/nosmoke.html A old colleague of mine always said when you see smoke, there's no way to fix it, because it's really hard to get the smoke back in there. -Steve
Re: Card on fire
On 7/12/16 7:51 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2016-07-12 11:06, Chris wrote: I turn it off every day. Sleep can be convenient if you're going to use it later the same day, for example. If the OS is up too long (several days), it starts to act weirdly and may crash at the most inconvenient time (is there a convenient time for a crash?). All OSes are the same in this respect, I think Windows is the worst, but Linux and OS X are not much better in this respect. Must be some sort of memory pollution. I use OS X and I don't recognize that problem. OSX needs a reboot every once in a while. iOS too. In particular, my bluetooth system will stop working (and then my trackpad no longer works). Yes, I've tried all the resetting firmware tricks :) But it's like months between reboots for me. Much better than Windows ever was. Most of the time, I reboot because of an OS update. But... I leave my home Mac on all the time. It's one of the auto-tester nodes. Makes me a tad concerned, though I've never had a computer catch fire. I've seen etches burn up though when working for a computer appliance manufacturer. So it does happen. Never caught fire though, just burned up and stopped working. -Steve
Re: Card on fire
On 2016-07-12 11:06, Chris wrote: I turn it off every day. Sleep can be convenient if you're going to use it later the same day, for example. If the OS is up too long (several days), it starts to act weirdly and may crash at the most inconvenient time (is there a convenient time for a crash?). All OSes are the same in this respect, I think Windows is the worst, but Linux and OS X are not much better in this respect. Must be some sort of memory pollution. I use OS X and I don't recognize that problem. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Re: Card on fire
On 7/12/2016 3:08 AM, Michael wrote: Maybe it's time to invest in some "workstation" / server-grade stuff if it's going to be running continuously with little moving air. There's still a case fan, cpu fan, and power supply fan, just not one dedicated to the card itself. The fire didn't start on the components that were attached to the heat sink. I've run all sorts of computers for 40 years now, have had all sorts of hardware failures, and this is the first one that caught fire. The server hardware I've seen all had very noisy fans. I couldn't bear that.
Re: Card on fire
On Tuesday, 12 July 2016 at 11:28:41 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 7/11/2016 11:24 PM, Jacob Carlborg wrote: I put my computer into sleep mode when I'm not using it for a longer period of time. It seems to shutdown everything but keeps some power to keep the data in RAM alive. So it turn back on instantly. I still have a lingering reluctance to do that, because it wasn't until quite recently that the machines would function properly when woken up. Windows 7 still randomly forgets about its shares when it wakes up. Yep. Sleep mode always causes trouble (not only on Windows).
Re: Card on fire
On 7/11/2016 11:24 PM, Jacob Carlborg wrote: I put my computer into sleep mode when I'm not using it for a longer period of time. It seems to shutdown everything but keeps some power to keep the data in RAM alive. So it turn back on instantly. I still have a lingering reluctance to do that, because it wasn't until quite recently that the machines would function properly when woken up. Windows 7 still randomly forgets about its shares when it wakes up.
Re: Card on fire
On Monday, 11 July 2016 at 21:29:49 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 7/11/2016 7:49 AM, Meta wrote: It wouldn't happen to be an nVidia card, would it? MSI GeForce GT 720 DirectX 12 N720-1GD3HLP 1GB 64-Bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready Video Card The fire happened at the junction between the graphics card and the motherboard. I'm not totally sure which failed. Could have been a bad capacitor on the motherboard. Maybe it was a defect in the connector. It had been in near continuous use for over a year. Maybe it's time to invest in some "workstation" / server-grade stuff if it's going to be running continuously with little moving air.
Re: Card on fire
On Tuesday, 12 July 2016 at 06:24:13 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2016-07-11 23:23, Walter Bright wrote: Yeah, I consider myself very lucky, as I leave the machine on all the time. I was sitting next to it when it burst into flame, and cutting the power put it out. In the future I plan on cutting the time for it to go into hibernation. Fortunately it's a metal case that doesn't burn, but I'm still thinking about bending some tin to act as baffles over the vents, and setting it on a metal plate. I put my computer into sleep mode when I'm not using it for a longer period of time. It seems to shutdown everything but keeps some power to keep the data in RAM alive. So it turn back on instantly. I turn it off every day. If the OS is up too long (several days), it starts to act weirdly and may crash at the most inconvenient time (is there a convenient time for a crash?). All OSes are the same in this respect, I think Windows is the worst, but Linux and OS X are not much better in this respect. Must be some sort of memory pollution.
Re: Card on fire
On 2016-07-11 23:23, Walter Bright wrote: Yeah, I consider myself very lucky, as I leave the machine on all the time. I was sitting next to it when it burst into flame, and cutting the power put it out. In the future I plan on cutting the time for it to go into hibernation. Fortunately it's a metal case that doesn't burn, but I'm still thinking about bending some tin to act as baffles over the vents, and setting it on a metal plate. I put my computer into sleep mode when I'm not using it for a longer period of time. It seems to shutdown everything but keeps some power to keep the data in RAM alive. So it turn back on instantly. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Re: Card on fire
On 7/11/2016 7:49 AM, Meta wrote: It wouldn't happen to be an nVidia card, would it? MSI GeForce GT 720 DirectX 12 N720-1GD3HLP 1GB 64-Bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready Video Card The fire happened at the junction between the graphics card and the motherboard. I'm not totally sure which failed. Could have been a bad capacitor on the motherboard. Maybe it was a defect in the connector. It had been in near continuous use for over a year.
Re: Card on fire
On 7/11/2016 6:06 AM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: That's kind of scary. It's one of those things you don't think about happening -- like what if you weren't home if this happened. Could have been a lot worse. Yeah, I consider myself very lucky, as I leave the machine on all the time. I was sitting next to it when it burst into flame, and cutting the power put it out. In the future I plan on cutting the time for it to go into hibernation. Fortunately it's a metal case that doesn't burn, but I'm still thinking about bending some tin to act as baffles over the vents, and setting it on a metal plate.
Re: Card on fire
On 7/9/2016 7:43 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Got a text from Walter - his famous fanless graphics card caught fire along with the motherboard. He'll be outta commission for a few days. -- I can do email and such with my laptop, but it is not suitable for development. I spent yesterday cleaning many many years of dust out of my office :-) though the burned plastic smell lingers. A new mobo and graphics card were overnighted, hopefully nothing else got fried.
Re: Card on fire
On 7/9/2016 9:11 PM, A.B wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOErZuzZpS8 You must be older than me to think of that song!
Re: Card on fire
On Sunday, 10 July 2016 at 02:43:42 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Got a text from Walter - his famous fanless graphics card caught fire along with the motherboard. He'll be outta commission for a few days. -- Andrei It wouldn't happen to be an nVidia card, would it?
Re: Card on fire
On 7/9/16 10:43 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Got a text from Walter - his famous fanless graphics card caught fire along with the motherboard. He'll be outta commission for a few days. -- That's kind of scary. It's one of those things you don't think about happening -- like what if you weren't home if this happened. Could have been a lot worse. -Steve
Re: Card on fire
On Sunday, 10 July 2016 at 02:43:42 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Got a text from Walter - his famous fanless graphics card caught fire along with the motherboard. He'll be outta commission for a few days. -- Andrei I hope he wasn't using it on the back of a camel in the desert... http://forum.dlang.org/post/nl5hqu$1atc$1...@digitalmars.com
Re: Card on fire
On Sunday, 10 July 2016 at 02:43:42 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Got a text from Walter - his famous fanless graphics card caught fire along with the motherboard. He'll be outta commission for a few days. -- Andrei Glad he's ok. Maybe go overboard with the fans this time ;)
Re: Card on fire
On Sunday, 10 July 2016 at 02:43:42 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Got a text from Walter - his famous fanless graphics card caught fire along with the motherboard. He'll be outta commission for a few days. -- Andrei lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOErZuzZpS8
Card on fire
Got a text from Walter - his famous fanless graphics card caught fire along with the motherboard. He'll be outta commission for a few days. -- Andrei
